0:00

Sex, trying to get loose, Hill Fire, garl

0:06

It upstairs, all lock

0:13

the shot at the Rim. Welcome

0:15

to the Chase Down Podcast, part of the Caves Media family.

0:17

I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The NBA

0:19

Draft Lottery is just three weeks

0:21

away, and while we've been focused on the Calves

0:23

lately, the NBA playoffs have been off to

0:26

an incredibly exciting start. So today

0:28

we're going to take a small look at the playoffs.

0:30

Of course, discussed some Calves tie ins

0:33

and with me today is my co host discuss

0:35

this all. Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how you doing, buddy,

0:37

I'm doing alright. Man, got a late start getting

0:40

ready for the podcast, but we're hitting levels

0:42

everywhere we need to hit levels. I didn't miss punch

0:44

anything and we're recording, so you know we're

0:46

going to call that a win in this country. Look, you

0:48

came up clutch. It's not always going to be

0:51

ideal situations. You're you're not always going to

0:53

have your full roster available

0:55

like a lot of these NBA teams, but

0:58

you gotta make do with what you have, right Absolutely,

1:01

I'm sorry you caught me midsip of my root

1:03

beer. Well, you have

1:05

a root Beer recently justin I have,

1:08

Yes, I have, I just candy in a bottle.

1:10

It is I.

1:13

I have root beer basically only when I go

1:15

to n W because I'll go through

1:17

the drive through and get a W chains

1:19

like a big thing there because I've only seen

1:21

a few in my day. Not not a huge

1:23

thing. But they do good. Let's let us wraps

1:26

for their burgers. So that's why I choose them

1:28

over other options and free lifestyle

1:31

living that gloom free life man um.

1:34

Speaking of lifestyle and culture,

1:37

the Miami Heat swept out

1:39

of the playoffs, and this is actually where I want to start

1:41

because I I think Miami is

1:44

a great example of what

1:46

a lot of people are struggling with right now,

1:48

which is how to evaluate this

1:50

season? How to evaluate the Bubble. We've

1:53

talked about the issues that they has

1:55

had with injuries and just

1:57

getting a read on what this end

2:00

be a season is and where these teams stand

2:02

I found to be incredibly difficult.

2:05

What do you maybe have it? I needed to be having more

2:07

fun with this good

2:10

season? Maybe the Bubble boys,

2:13

Baby Jimmy Bubbles, is that

2:15

here all right? So here? Boys?

2:19

Well, they did win as many playoff games as

2:21

the calves. This here, so if you wanted to

2:23

take a step to try to deserve

2:25

the same amount of respect in the national

2:27

media, says this unbiased observer. I

2:30

I think you raise a valid point. What

2:33

do you make of it? Do you actually go the bubble

2:35

fraud route when you're talking about the Miami

2:37

Heat or is there a little bit of room

2:39

for nuance here? Not all the way,

2:41

but a little. I mean, they shot

2:44

the absolute crap out of the ball. It

2:46

blitz the Bucks who are in

2:48

the middle of an absolute crisis, and then

2:50

beat a Celtics team that nobody thought

2:53

was, you know, a finals worthy

2:55

team in one of the worst easts in recent

2:57

memory. Um, they

3:00

you know, they got a superstar level play at

3:02

a Bam, they got superstar level

3:04

play at a Jimmy, they got not

3:06

trade for James Harden maybe kind

3:09

of play out of Tyler hero. Yeah,

3:12

by the way, it was not that like that during

3:14

the regular season, So you

3:16

know, uh, you know, everyone has

3:18

their booby gifts in moment. I'm happy Tyler

3:21

had his and some big some clutch minutes.

3:23

Um, but you know, all things must

3:26

end, and I think that you know

3:28

that I just couldn't I couldn't

3:30

get past the fact that every like I last

3:32

year they were like a forty seven win team or something

3:34

like that, are on pace to be And I thought, that's

3:36

about what they were this year, and that's what they're gonna be the

3:39

next couple years. Unless they get a legit superstar,

3:42

You're you're not counting on kauaiet.

3:45

I can't do the pun I can't do the

3:47

Kawaiami Beach. Yeah

3:50

you're you're not Steve

3:52

Jones, that's for damn sure. Um

3:55

I just yeah, I don't know. Man Like, unless

3:57

they do, that changes the dynamic. And that's

4:00

the nice thing about having heat culture a k

4:02

South Beach is that you have people

4:05

that want to go there and you know, it's

4:07

such a glamorous destination, let

4:10

alone, you know, the organizational reputation

4:12

they have so like they're always

4:14

in the game. So it's like it kind

4:16

of annoys me when people like, yeah, pett Riley always

4:18

says one, you know, a couple of moves in his back pock. I'm

4:20

like, well, no, craf. Well,

4:23

sometimes the moves that he has in his back pocket

4:25

is giving massive contracts to James

4:27

Johnson, Tyler Johnson, Dion Waiters, Hassan

4:30

Whiteside

4:32

bringing in Danny Granger as the

4:34

replacement or the guy

4:36

to help bring Miami over

4:38

the top again and and help out Lebron

4:40

win another ring there that didn't work out too

4:42

well. So so yeah, I guess my general point

4:45

is I think they're pretty good. And I still thought

4:47

they were pretty good, and I thought, you know,

4:49

like in a lot of ways, they're kind of a try hard

4:52

team, and try hard teams

4:54

normally get beaten by better talent. And

4:57

now that the Bucks uh have you

4:59

know, brought some wipes to the to

5:01

the bathroom. Uh, you know that they're

5:03

doing all right now they're not pooping down their leg anymore.

5:06

And the playoffs and they're

5:08

able to they're able to, you know, the end the

5:10

talent clearly it wasn't close. I mean, you

5:12

had so many guys, Like the weak

5:14

points in Miami became very obvious,

5:17

and you know that the MT GEM

5:19

stuff, I just can't think it didn't

5:21

matter when they were like shooting

5:24

the cover off the ball and making an impossible

5:26

for team staying. Because I actually saw and

5:28

I'm sorry, I'm just gonna keep crapping on the heat, but

5:31

I actually saw some of the heat. Twitter

5:33

say they actually shot the three just as well

5:35

before the bubble, And I'm like, yeah, how many

5:37

good three point shooting teams without a ton of star

5:39

power do we see get their water shut off

5:41

when it matters like that? That is the

5:43

norm. The norm is not to stay

5:46

as good at three point shooting in the playoffs.

5:49

Uh. Even so this happened in the war

5:51

here, so you know, like like where once

5:53

you threw length and scheme at those those kind

5:55

of players, they start to make less of

5:57

an impact. So it's like that

5:59

that is not the the you

6:02

know, the perfect the silver

6:04

bullet that you think it is. He hands. So I just

6:06

think they're pretty good. That's what they're gonna be.

6:08

And they're locked into their best player, who

6:10

is pretty much the reason they're pretty good, or I'm sorry,

6:12

second best player if you're a huge band fan, but

6:15

like half of their core, of

6:18

of their you know, their superstar duo is like,

6:20

so, how old is Jimmy like thirty four? Yeah,

6:23

it's I mean he just got outscored by

6:25

Bryn Forbes in a playoff series. Like all

6:28

the context you want to throw into it, that

6:31

can't happen, right, And you know, what that reminds

6:33

me of. And this will actually put people down

6:35

kind of a dark road. But remember when Steph

6:38

was out rebounding Tristan in the finals that one

6:40

year. Yeah, and it was like a big staff people

6:42

were using. It's like we could contextualize

6:44

it all we wanted, and we had

6:47

good reasons why. Yeah, I

6:49

will still rant that Tristan was playing twenty

6:51

minutes step was, Tritan was blah

6:54

blah blah blah blah. With that said, all

6:56

you need to know is if that's the stat ain't

6:59

going well for you know, it is not going

7:01

well. And and the reason I wanted to start

7:03

here is because I think the

7:05

question a lot of people are going to have this

7:08

year and even last year is did

7:10

the best team win? And I don't think

7:12

that this season. We talked about asterisk

7:15

last year, and we talked about it a little

7:17

bit going into these playoffs, but I don't.

7:19

I'm not even convinced the six team best

7:21

teams made the playoffs, like forgot

7:24

conference. Yeah, I don't know how often

7:26

that happens anyway, but like,

7:28

yeah, yeah, it's it's

7:30

impossible to say. And I certainly

7:32

think the seating is bored, right, and

7:35

you look at it now, like, I think there's

7:37

a legitimate case to be made that Sons

7:39

Lakers as the Western Conference Finals. Like, I

7:41

think that's probably how it would have played out if the Lakers

7:44

didn't get hurt. I think those teams would have made

7:46

it there. And even in that series,

7:48

you have Chris Paul getting hurt, Lebron's hurt, Anthony

7:50

Davis is hurt. Like, there are so many

7:53

injuries impacting these playoffs that

7:55

I think people are going to have a really tough

7:57

time. Um, in an NBA that's

8:00

always changing and evolving, I think

8:02

people are going to have a tough time next year

8:04

figuring out, Okay, things are getting back

8:06

to normal. Finally, where do all these

8:08

teams stand? Because you you look

8:10

at even this Miami Milwaukee

8:13

series, you have last

8:15

season where yeah, the Bucks

8:17

were not as good as a team. They brought in

8:19

Drew Holiday, they made improvements the honest

8:21

as an improved player. Um, I think

8:24

Bud actually did a better job in this series

8:26

than he has in the past, Like, no doubt about

8:28

it. I think the offense was looked

8:31

so much more sophisticated and how they were generating

8:33

their looks. Not only that, he

8:36

kind of recognized Bam isn't

8:38

a confidence shooter to begin with, and

8:40

he had a busted up shooting hand

8:42

right, so they completely ignored him.

8:44

They said, Okay, we are going to dare

8:46

you to take those shots. And that's the first time

8:48

I've ever seen him really game plan

8:50

for a player. He he actually went out of his way

8:53

to say, Okay, we're going to

8:55

not just stick with what we always do traditionally

8:57

and hope that it works this time. They

8:59

may an adjustment and all

9:02

that contact aside. I think even

9:04

looking at last year, the Milwaukee Bucks were

9:06

the team that had a split

9:08

locker room. They did not want to proceed

9:11

with the bubble. At one point, George Hill talked

9:13

about how he didn't want to be there. Um,

9:15

it wasn't a unified roster because of

9:18

um, yeah,

9:21

the shooting that had taken place in Milwaukee.

9:23

So I think there's just so much

9:26

context that's going to go into these next two

9:28

years. And we've talked about it with the Calves,

9:30

like the fact that in seventy

9:32

two games you had a hundred and fourteen

9:34

miss games from Garland, Sexton, Love and

9:36

Nance this year compared to twenty

9:39

four miss games from them over sixty games

9:41

the previous year, Like everything

9:44

is out of whack, and to me, it's going to

9:47

be really interesting because can I say this though,

9:49

go ahead, I think this playoff like seating

9:52

be damned. Like, I'm not

9:54

super worried about how

9:58

far teams go in the postseason as

10:00

much as like what I'm seeing, And

10:02

I do believe that

10:05

these playoffs are closer

10:07

to reality than anything we've seen since

10:10

before that faithful

10:12

hold let me get there before that fateful

10:15

game against uh, you know, that Utah game

10:17

where they walked off. Because to me, it's like these

10:20

are close to normal schedule conditions for

10:22

playoff basketball. Um,

10:24

they're traveling home and away, fans

10:26

are in the arena. Um.

10:29

And I think that injuries are

10:31

the biggest reason that there's a wrench in this. But

10:33

I will say this every season. I

10:36

mean, maybe maybe you don't have a D and

10:38

and B go down, but

10:40

like you and and I actually don't

10:42

know, I've had a crazy day.

10:44

Do we have any more? Unembiid he's doubtful.

10:47

Doubtful okay either way, Like, but

10:49

you know, even if both of them, you know, completely

10:52

changed the tenor of a series, Like there's

10:54

normally at least one series in

10:56

a legitimate way that gets messed up from an

10:59

injury. And I and so for

11:01

the most part, like I'm seeing Sons

11:03

Lakers, and I go, yeah, that's really really elite

11:05

playoff basketball. And I know

11:08

more about the Sons and more about the Lakers

11:10

in a way that informs

11:12

me about that roster moving forward, Whereas

11:15

so much of Bubble play and this entire

11:17

season was well,

11:20

this is their fifth game in seven days,

11:22

and and they they're getting COVID

11:25

tested forty seven times before they get to the arena.

11:27

Like it just this feels closer.

11:29

Maybe it's not right exactly,

11:32

but it feels closer to me. Do you disagree?

11:34

Still, I do disagree because and

11:37

I know you said seating be damned as kind

11:39

of a qualifier. Here. The thing

11:42

about the Bubble was we at least had

11:44

a regular a normal

11:46

regular season up to that point that established

11:49

the seating, Like the best teams were

11:51

up at the top, and then everybody went into

11:53

the bubble with equal conditions.

11:56

I think it benefited teams like Miami

11:58

and guys that were really or teams that

12:00

were relying on role players, because those guys

12:02

are going to perform better under those situations

12:05

that there isn't travel, there isn't crowds

12:07

to contend with. The site

12:09

lines were great, uh, and that's why

12:11

you can get a really good shooting performance from

12:13

a Miami But when you look at this year,

12:16

the seating is so out of whack because the guys

12:19

have gone through so much this year that the

12:21

entire league has been dealing with tons of injuries.

12:23

And then you look at it like the Mavericks go up

12:26

to nothing and then Lucas shoulder

12:28

and neck acts up, and all of a sudden

12:30

it is a two two series, and I think you've got to give

12:32

some credit to the Clippers. But at the same time, and

12:35

injury helped. Again,

12:38

like bro, I'm not saying injuries aren't a factor

12:40

here. I'm saying that ultimately these

12:42

this basketball is closer to playoff

12:44

basketball because it is

12:48

one of the season. I'm sorry, like Lucas

12:50

plan, he's definitely he's definitely

12:52

hurt. But also, you know, the

12:55

the reason they were up to oh is because

12:57

they were shooting the absolute cover

13:00

off the ball and and

13:02

like at like completely unsustainable

13:04

rates. And then that crashed or earth

13:07

a bit and Kauai started playing with his food,

13:10

like or stopped playing with this food. Sorry,

13:12

you're honest, um, So like I don't know,

13:14

man, Like I get it, and like, ultimately, I

13:16

think if you're someone who is going to say

13:19

ha ha ha, the Lakers got bounced in

13:21

the first round, if that is, if that came to

13:23

pass, then then it's not real.

13:26

Then it's not normal. Like you shouldn't

13:28

evaluate it that way. But if you're just watching the

13:30

games and saying and saying team A versus

13:32

Team B, team X versus Team Y,

13:35

I feel like I'm learning a lot about these

13:37

teams in a way that is meaningful moving

13:39

forward, Whereas last year I

13:42

felt like there's so much noise. I

13:44

think that's actually a really good point because you

13:47

did have kind of these breakout bubble stars

13:49

that performing. You know, t J.

13:51

Warren was dropping fifty bombs every other

13:53

game. Well it didn't score point

13:56

this season, Carter and take to your point, Well,

14:00

unfair maybe just

14:02

a little bit. But I

14:04

do think it almost reflects what

14:07

Kobe Altman had said in his year in press

14:09

conference when he talked about, yeah, we

14:11

we don't really have a great feel for where this team

14:13

is, but we have good data points on the young

14:15

court because those guys played more

14:17

than the rest of the team, we got to evaluate

14:20

them under certain circumstances. And

14:22

I think that might be the case as well, like even

14:25

the Phoenix Suns as an example, Like I've

14:27

been super high on Michael Bridges, and

14:29

you can tell he's not quite ready for this stage.

14:31

He's not. He's very

14:34

impactful and defensive and he's doing the little

14:36

things, but he doesn't seem

14:38

yet ready to take that next step as a score.

14:41

And I think that you can look at individual

14:43

examples. I just feel zero confidence

14:46

at all that we're going to get the best team winning

14:48

at the end of this year. I I do not think that's

14:50

going to be the case to you. I

14:53

honestly, like, if they were fully healthy, I picked

14:55

the Lakers, Like I think that that again, Like

14:58

that's not fair though, because the best team always

15:00

like like they're in I

15:02

think the Cabs were the best team. Yeah,

15:05

throw it off, Like I don't think you can attribute like

15:08

necessarily bubble stuff to the or you know, COVID

15:10

stuff to this where it's like it's just not normal

15:12

because the best team is gonna win, Like that

15:14

happens more often than we want to admit

15:17

the general point, and I wouldn't throw an asterisk

15:19

on it, Like I don't think that you should ever do

15:21

that because think, I to be clear, I don't

15:23

think that's what you're doing. But like in terms of

15:26

like meaningful evaluation

15:28

and understand common kind of contextualizing

15:31

this season moving forward, I think

15:33

that you know ultimately the

15:36

winner will have been

15:39

you know, I don't think that. I think the league

15:41

is in a place where there's

15:43

actually seven or eight teams who could win

15:46

the title, and it's not just because of health

15:48

reasons, is because of a thousand weird

15:50

reasons. Where I really think the only health

15:52

reason in real practice

15:54

to me is the Lakers with Lebron

15:57

coming back and a D banged up. Because

16:00

if the Nets don't win, I think we you

16:02

you were of the opinion that they weren't gonna win because

16:05

oh they are continuity, they are going to

16:07

get steamrolled next round. I feel we

16:10

need a little side about my friend, because I think I

16:13

have some friends who who strongly

16:15

believe in Nets in five. If you know what I'm

16:17

saying, Okay, I think I chased

16:20

downside that that has occur in

16:22

a while. We need to get one going here for

16:24

sure, because I'm a big believer in

16:26

that the necessaries. But the point is, if they don't

16:28

win, it won't I think there's

16:30

a lot of good reasons for it, And I don't think

16:32

the league is so top heavy as it's been. Where

16:35

you go, you know, no matter what, like

16:38

the team, there's two teams they can win. Like

16:40

I just think everyone is super flawed. Even the Lakers

16:42

team healthy is super flawed. So

16:45

it's it's hard to know. I don't

16:47

know, man, I just feel like I feel like it's more I

16:50

feel like what happens this playoff

16:52

is reflective of the state of the league that

16:55

which is that there's so many teams that can win

16:57

the title right now, and I think that would be the case

16:59

in an the more year two. I think

17:01

that's a fair point. What I'm trying to get at

17:03

more is, like Sons Lakers is a

17:06

prime example. One of these teams is going to lose in

17:08

the first round and they are not a first round

17:10

out team. They this is a situation.

17:13

So you're just evaluating the way that you like. If

17:15

you choose to evaluate it that way, then that I

17:17

think you're right. So I don't really think we're arguing

17:19

disparate points. We're just choosing to value different things,

17:22

right, And even the Miami

17:24

Heat, like, I think they kind of

17:27

no way they approach the way

17:29

they approached the end of the season, resting guys,

17:31

trying to to almost get Milwaukee

17:34

in the playoffs. This might have been a totally

17:36

different situation for them if they

17:38

won one or two of those games and all of

17:40

a sudden theyre playing the New York Knicks and then

17:43

you beat the Knicks potentially and

17:45

you play a Philly team that has embeed

17:47

hurt, like things could have opened

17:49

up in a big way there for them. I

17:52

still think they were a little fraudulent.

17:54

I don't think that this team is as good as last

17:56

year's team. Uh, they did make a bet

17:59

going in on Victor Oladipo and

18:01

that did not pay out off. Pretty

18:03

much the same team though. Spare me this Jay Crowder

18:06

stuff, like like if you like

18:09

Phoenix has watched Jay Crowder let them down

18:11

the whole series, Like it's like

18:13

if if that if the reason that you're

18:16

man could have been

18:20

if your team was a legitimate finals contender

18:22

because you had freaking Kelly

18:25

Olenik and Jay Crowder and then you didn't

18:27

anymore. Then you weren't a real finals

18:29

contender. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just can't

18:32

get there. They also lost a twitch

18:34

streamer, like that hurt them. Well,

18:36

you know, Jesus Man, I

18:38

might not be arguing in good faith now as

18:41

I go through those names anyways,

18:43

Like, I just don't think they're as good of a team.

18:45

Andre Goodalla is a year older. Um,

18:47

Like, I just don't think there is good and the Tyler

18:50

hero factor is massive, like he was not

18:52

a good player this year. Like I

18:55

you look back at some of the conversations last

18:57

year when when Hero was ranked over Derris Garland

19:00

in all the redrafts, and um

19:02

people would probably have him over Sexton, and now

19:04

he's below both of them. I think

19:06

pretty comfortably, uh that that's

19:08

always really entertaining to me. But I don't

19:11

know. I do feel

19:13

like I never want to put a nastisk

19:16

on any season because every single season

19:18

has context. I think we just become

19:20

more aware of it and it's entrenched

19:22

in our brains because anytime something

19:24

happens in today's NBA, when the

19:26

event happens, we have the instant

19:29

reaction, We have the reaction to the reaction and

19:31

the reaction to the reactions reaction, like it

19:33

is out of freaking control all

19:36

the time, Like all of this gets shoved down

19:38

our throats, and I think, here's can

19:40

I can I interrupt you here? That's why

19:42

I like the way I'm kind of perceiving these playoffs,

19:45

which is, is teammate better than team

19:47

B. I'm treating it very granularly, one

19:49

series at a time, Like I'm

19:51

not looking for the big picture here as much as

19:53

I'm saying, do I think

19:55

the Bucks are better than the Nuts? Can

19:58

can they outplay them over a seven game series? It's

20:00

fairy like that. I feel like the narrow your lens

20:02

actually the better, Like you need the big picture of

20:04

understanding that, Like the results

20:07

will be wonky because of how seating happened. But

20:09

at a basket at the at the you know, dribble

20:12

the ball, shoot the ball, pass the ball level, it

20:15

is it is good stuff

20:17

to come to take in and learn. That

20:19

is my point. I mean, I

20:22

think you're right, it's certainly is I'm

20:24

right, it certainly

20:26

is entertaining. Like I I think the quality

20:28

of the basketball, like, to me, it resembles

20:31

what I grew up loving

20:33

about basketball um more so

20:35

than what we even saw in the regular season, where I

20:38

think offense has gone a little out of control.

20:40

I do like seeing that teams are able to shut

20:42

each other's water off the even

20:45

like the Lakers Suns. Like those games

20:47

being a hundred to in

20:50

that range like that is exciting to me. Yeah,

20:53

I like a hundred being kind of the marker

20:55

or whether or not you had a good game. I don't like one

20:57

thirty being the marker of whether or not you had a good

20:59

game. Do you agree with my contention though, that

21:01

that series is the Western Conference Finals?

21:03

Or are you high on Utah? Who's they've

21:06

been impressive? Like they are? Really They're

21:09

getting shots up, they can score fairly consistently.

21:12

Some of that might be the fact that they're playing Memphis,

21:14

But my belief

21:16

in them is up a little bit. But I'm still

21:18

inclined to call them fraudulent. It's

21:21

interesting. I don't know about fraudulent. I

21:23

think what's kind of neat about um

21:26

Utah here is I feel like Memphis was kind of the

21:28

perfect warm up series

21:30

for them, because Memphis

21:33

does not go quietly into the night at

21:35

at any point. They they fight and

21:38

fight and what's been really cool about watching

21:40

Utah these last few games, because you know, I

21:42

don't think either of us a particularly huge Utah fans,

21:44

though I love me some Mike Conley and I

21:46

always will um, you know, I

21:48

don't think that we've always been big, big

21:50

believers in their kind of their contender status.

21:54

But what's cool is that

21:56

Memphis is making them knock them

21:59

out like they are they are rocky

22:01

against Apollo in the first fight, you know,

22:04

like they like they won't go quietly in the night.

22:06

But what's cool is that Utah

22:09

is throwing Haymakers back and they're

22:11

saying, we don't care that you're playing well,

22:14

we don't care that you're out work, that you're working

22:16

super hard, we don't care that you're cohesive.

22:19

We are better than you, and

22:22

like, and that is really cool to see

22:24

because like I just felt like they were kind of a team that just

22:27

like you never felt them

22:29

historically, Like I've never been like, oh man,

22:31

this Utah team is inevitable, and

22:33

they've been kind of inevitable in this series.

22:35

I think, I think, I you

22:38

know, I remember last year when Bogdanovitch

22:40

was out and everyone was making a big deal about I was like, okay,

22:42

but is he really a playoff player? And I think

22:44

this version of him is especially

22:47

when you know they they're they're taking that

22:50

you know, that Pistons path where they

22:52

you know, they have a nominal star in

22:54

Mitchell, but really it's a it's quite

22:56

the ensemble effort over there, and

22:59

and like lou using a piece like that was

23:01

really really important. I think I underplayed

23:03

it. Um, but yeah, they're

23:05

just they're they're just imposing themselves. In

23:07

the late game against Memphis, the Memphis knows

23:10

they need three stops to get back in the game and

23:12

they go over three, like and

23:14

that's really cool to me. And to

23:17

your point, I don't know. I'm curious what you think about

23:19

Utah before we kind of answer the West Finals

23:21

question, because like, like, do you agree

23:24

with my my summary? Are you still like, you

23:26

know whatever, they're still the Jazz. Well, when

23:29

I say fraudulent, I say that because

23:31

I just don't it's being silly.

23:33

Yeah, it's being silly because I don't like them.

23:35

Like I do think they're a really good team. I just don't think

23:37

they're going to win a championship. So that

23:40

is the bar that I'm measuring them at

23:42

um. I mean, if I could have

23:44

the Calves be Utah for an

23:46

extented period of time, I would take that. I would

23:49

give up my firstborn child for that um.

23:52

But I think

23:54

your points are are more balanced and fair.

23:56

The question I actually wanted to ask, though, is

24:00

when you're describing like the effort that Memphis

24:02

is putting up. When I'm right,

24:04

next season and the Calves are in the playoffs, would

24:07

you rather them have a series like this where

24:10

they are a massive underdog, they put up a

24:12

really good fight, they make the the better

24:14

team earn it. Or would you rather them

24:16

be in a series like the Hawks Knicks where

24:18

you're not playing as good of an opponent, but

24:20

you probably have a little bit better of a chance

24:23

to actually advance in the series. Let's say they're the

24:25

Knicks, the the underdog in that series,

24:27

but not by a whole lot. What would

24:29

you rather have that the opportunity to

24:32

advance around and probably get killed,

24:34

or would you like to be like okay,

24:37

see against the Lakers a few years

24:39

ago. Obviously, the Calves don't

24:42

have Kevin Durant Westbrook Harden type

24:44

situation, but a team that's

24:46

viewed as an up and coming team because of how

24:48

they perform against a really high

24:50

level town. I hate to

24:52

be a bad co host, but I'm not sure I care as

24:55

long as the team's playing well and like in

24:57

acquitting themselves well in the postseason like

24:59

this one. I respect

25:01

your admirable attempt to try to bring this talk

25:03

back to the caves, but to me, it's like, you know,

25:06

I just want them to to I

25:08

want them to outperform or perform

25:11

well relative to expectations

25:14

and whatever road up the mountain

25:16

that is. I don't care. Like if they win a

25:18

series, awesome. If they

25:20

end up the eight seed and take

25:22

a game off of Brooklyn and Colin Sexton

25:25

drops fifty or something, well that's awesome

25:27

too, because you're playing with house money at that point,

25:29

And like, that's what we're we've been looking

25:31

forward to the last several years, that first year where

25:34

you go, oh, this team is pretty damn good,

25:36

damn and like that's what we haven't

25:38

gotten to see yet. We had a few

25:40

brief tastes of it this season that that's

25:43

what I'm most interested. Then, see,

25:46

I wasn't even anticipating answering or

25:48

asking that question, and then you kind

25:50

of got me thinking and why

25:52

I went that direction. I'm already

25:55

I'm I'm already banking

25:57

on them being good next year. So for me,

26:00

I'm already at like that level of what

26:02

playoff matchup do we want? How do we

26:04

want this to playoffs? I'm

26:07

not worrying about You're

26:09

just you're just hoping for normal. That's

26:11

that's so boring. Come on, that's all I've

26:14

ever wanted. Get your damn expectations

26:16

up. So let's get my expectations

26:19

up when I'm when it's time, I want, I

26:21

want. I want to have a fun year, not a

26:23

year where I'm mad that they're not a playoff team

26:26

yet if they're not. Let's

26:28

circle back before we wrap this thing

26:30

up, as we are going to do a shorter podcast

26:33

when we aren't talking Calves, because I

26:35

mean, we are a cast podcast. You

26:38

seem pretty confident Brooklyn

26:40

versus Milwaukee. I want our listeners

26:43

to one reply to the podcast

26:45

account on Twitter chase down pod and

26:48

give us suggestions for what this bet should

26:50

be. But why are you so confident in Brooklyn's gonna

26:52

be? Is it just the fact that they have those three guys,

26:55

Because they have three of the best four players in the

26:57

series, and

27:00

Um, I think that their role players

27:02

are better than people think. I

27:04

think that Joannice won't

27:07

guard Katie

27:09

honest average, like forty two points a game

27:11

against thee That's nice, that's nice. Um,

27:15

I am interested to see how that changes

27:17

in the postseason environment. I think when

27:20

Brooklyn wasn't asleep at the wheel like

27:22

they were in Game three, they did a pretty good played

27:24

pretty good defense on on Tatum

27:27

in the Celtics. Um,

27:30

I just think the talent went out. You know

27:32

me, I'm a talent snob man, Like since

27:35

when did we like, since when

27:37

do the people on this podcast defer

27:41

to try hard teams that have a

27:43

talent deficit in the postseason? Like those teams

27:45

normally don't win. What are

27:47

you talking about? Like, you really

27:49

think the Bucks are more talented than the Nets.

27:52

I think the aggregate Yeah,

27:55

Like I I think especially

27:58

when you factor and continuity, Like I'm a continuity

28:00

stopped. That's that's why when I'm talking

28:02

about next season for the Cals, think I want

28:04

them to get more reliable options, like these

28:06

guys have played fifteen games together.

28:09

I believe like they do not

28:11

have the chemical string continent. James

28:13

Harden doesn't have a lot of reps with Katie over his

28:16

career. Well, he has a lot of reps letting

28:18

Katie down in the playoffs too. Oh my god.

28:22

So like especially when there's Drew Holiday,

28:24

Chris Middleton, and Janice to defend

28:26

those three and Brooklyn can't

28:28

defend them on the other end, and Milwaukee's

28:31

actually showing um

28:33

like they're showing heart. Like when we we talked

28:35

about it before, when I commented that I

28:37

don't think you Honest can be a Number one. The reason

28:39

why I hedge that in my tweet is he

28:41

can still become that, Like Lebron

28:44

was not that even when he was

28:46

in Miami. He he hadn't fully reached

28:48

that level until he was down

28:50

against Boston and you got the stair and

28:52

the switch flip for him. That moment

28:54

could happen in this postseason for Your Honest, and like

28:57

that would be significant because if that switched

28:59

flips and he's really attacking the rim

29:01

and he's being aggressive and he just

29:03

takes over that series, that

29:06

that would change the calculus like that I

29:08

would change the calculus. But the current calculus

29:10

is that he doesn't do that. He just did

29:13

that against Miami. He just did that against

29:15

a team that was his kryptonite. He

29:17

he just overcame that hurdle. Here

29:20

here's can I can I just give The crux

29:22

of my take is that Jeff Green's

29:24

gonna lock down your honest of course not never.

29:27

The crux of my take is that I

29:29

don't think Miami is as good as everyone

29:31

else thought they were. So

29:34

while they're exercising their demons,

29:36

was obviously a very valuable

29:40

mental exercise, I

29:42

think that ultimately they

29:45

were playing a team that isn't

29:47

that talented. So they're

29:50

gonna play a team that's way more

29:52

talented in the biggest

29:54

parts that matter, which is at the top of the roster.

29:58

And you know, I just think I think the

30:00

fact that Brooklyn can score against

30:02

good defense consistently is

30:05

bananas. I don't I feel

30:07

like people underplay how easy it

30:09

is for them to get good shots. Brent Forbes,

30:12

the one who completely flipped the series on his head,

30:14

is going to get destroyed

30:17

if he's out there. They

30:19

targeted him like crazy in the regular

30:22

season, so there, so their role players

30:24

are going to have to hit threes at a high level. M

30:27

Yeah,

30:27

no, no, no. And

30:30

I feel like Dante hurts too because that

30:32

does kind of that takes away

30:34

one extra defender that

30:37

can allow Janice to play healp dy Like,

30:39

I feel like Janice has more

30:41

of a burden to guard Kevin Durant than

30:43

he did prior, because now you

30:46

gotta go with you know, one of your other guard

30:48

You either you know, put a weaker defender

30:51

on Harden or Kyrie and

30:54

and leave leave Middleton

30:56

on uh Undurant,

30:59

or you just matched Drew to Kyrie, Middleton

31:02

to Harden and be honest to KD And

31:05

I don't think Bud really wants to do that. Yeah,

31:08

no, it's it's a valid point.

31:10

Like, if I'm being honest, I'm more confident that

31:13

the cast will make the playoffs in the Nets will steam roll

31:15

or the the buck Stell steamroll the Nets. It's

31:17

funny that we both think the other team will steamroll,

31:20

Like I think it's but I don't even think

31:23

five or six games, Buddy five or something. I'm

31:25

gonna be annoying. I'm

31:27

gonna hedge my own take and be that annoying

31:29

person. I don't think it's five,

31:32

you know, four ass kickings. Um,

31:35

I think this is gonna be a hard fought series. I

31:37

just think you know, when it's

31:40

not cutting time, Brooklyn is gonna get point, gonna

31:42

get buckets. So I

31:45

think the other element in this too is

31:48

as low as you are on Miami

31:51

Boston's worth, Boston is

31:53

not going to him. Not factoring

31:56

in the ball, I'm not factoring in the Boston series

31:58

much beyond that they've played okay defense

32:00

when they were trying right. But I'm my

32:03

point is that Brooklyn hasn't

32:05

really been tested ever with three.

32:08

They they have absolutely no experience. In

32:10

Milwaukee has actually gone through some stuff.

32:12

Yes they have new parts, but like Drew Holiday

32:15

has playoff experience. I

32:17

just I just feel like it

32:19

will test my basketball beliefs. It will test

32:21

my basketball beliefs if if Brooklyn

32:23

beats them, because I just

32:26

I think chemistry and continuity really matters

32:28

on the stage. I would pick Brooklyn to win the championship

32:30

next year when they've had experience.

32:34

But this always takes

32:36

time. Even the Big three in Miami it took

32:38

time. Like I get it, I get it,

32:40

man. But like the way, these are

32:43

veteran players and I think people

32:46

just kind of underrate them. I

32:49

think they underrate the star wattage

32:51

of that trio relative to NBA history.

32:54

We need we need to ask Hi Windish

32:57

what the strip clubs are like in in Milwaukee,

32:59

because that could be a

33:01

either a good thing or a bad thing for James. But I

33:04

do not imagine they're strong. But ultimately,

33:06

ultimately, like I don't know, man, I just think

33:09

like when I look, I think twenty years

33:11

from now, you know you're

33:13

we're telling our well, I'll be telling my kids

33:15

you, of course are not a Brewer. You'll be telling your

33:17

nieces and nephews um

33:19

about They'll they'll say, wait, the Nets had

33:21

James Hart and Kyrie and Kevin Durant

33:24

all in their prime, and people didn't

33:26

think they were gonna win that, you know. Like

33:29

I just feel like they're the easy bet until

33:31

they lose. Like I do think they I

33:33

see the roadmap that you're talking about.

33:36

I just think it is much less likely

33:38

than them dropping a hundred game

33:41

when when it matters, you

33:44

raise valid points. I'm really,

33:46

really smart. I'm in on this bet though.

33:49

This definitely has to be a chase Come

33:53

on, listeners, please give us steaks whether

33:56

if you're on Twitter app Chase down Pod.

33:58

If not, send us an email Chase down

34:00

Pot at gmail dot com. We

34:02

will embrace this. We we want a fun one.

34:04

Don't make it too

34:08

Yeah, anything that's gonna piss my wife off,

34:10

we're not doing. I don't

34:12

care about your wife. I don't want to piss off.

34:15

Well, yeah, but

34:17

they don't care if I like shave a mustache

34:19

or something like that, but my wife will leave me. That

34:22

that's fair neither Honestly, especially

34:25

the people watching on YouTube right now, you don't want to see

34:27

either of us without facial hair that. These

34:29

are not defined faces. These are

34:31

the faces of white podcasters,

34:34

not not not models,

34:37

not models. So

34:39

we will be back. I think Sunday

34:42

will we'll have more cast stuff to talk about.

34:44

But this was so close to the last pod

34:46

that we did, which was a lot of fun. Again, thank you

34:48

so much to all our listeners that submitted questions.

34:50

I thought it was a lot of fun to go through

34:52

that. If you have questions or wager

34:54

suggestions, you can send that to the pot account.

34:57

You can also send that to Chase doown pot at gmail

34:59

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