0:08

Welcome to the Childcare Business

0:10

Podcast, brought to you by ProCare

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Solutions. This podcast

0:15

is all about giving childcare , preschool,

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daycare , after school , and other

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early education professionals. A fun and

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upbeat way to learn about strategies and

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inspiration you can use to thrive. You'll

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hear from a variety of childcare thought leaders,

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including educators, owners, and

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industry experts on ways to innovate, to meet

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the needs of the children you serve. From

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practical tips for managing operations

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to uplifting stories of

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transformation and triumph, this

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podcast will be chock full of

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insights you can use to fully realize

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the potential of your childcare business.

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Let's jump in.

0:53

You know, like always wanna welcome everybody

0:56

back to the Childcare Business podcast. Uh,

0:59

it's good to have you with us again

1:01

today. And look, I'm excited. I was just

1:03

talking with our guest, AJ Kraybill

1:05

, uh, before we started recording. And I,

1:07

I was telling him, we have a little bit of a,

1:09

a , a bio here to read to kind

1:11

of tell a little bit of his story. But AJ

1:13

maybe I'll , I'll flip the script a

1:15

little bit, if it's okay. And give you a chance

1:18

to introduce yourself to our

1:20

audience. Can you just talk a little bit about who you

1:22

are and what you do and, and , uh,

1:25

and we'll go from there.

1:27

Yeah. Thank you very much , uh,

1:29

Ryan, for having me. And yeah, I'm deeply

1:31

disinterested in going through my bio,

1:34

but , um, <laugh> , um,

1:36

essentially , um, uh,

1:38

a public education advocate. I , I'm believing

1:41

what's possible for children in our communities, and that

1:43

that possibility is , uh, most

1:46

realized through our, our

1:48

nation's safety net for

1:50

all children. Uh , just public education.

1:53

And I have the privilege of working

1:55

both with individual schools to help

1:57

, uh, implement student-led

2:00

restorative practices, really helping

2:02

ensure that students have the skillset necessary

2:05

to help take

2:08

responsibility for the culture and climate

2:11

of their schools, and to create a

2:13

school climate that is conducive to

2:15

high achievement. And

2:17

, uh, also have the privilege of coaching school

2:19

boards across the country as they

2:23

are looking for ways to be more intensely

2:25

focused on improving student outcomes.

2:28

Excellent. And I know, I think we'll spend some time, you

2:30

know, hopefully connecting dots from,

2:32

you know, I know typically when we hear school boards

2:35

and public school systems, we think of that K

2:37

through 12 environment where, you know, ProCare

2:40

and , and kind of a lot of our listeners will live

2:42

as in that early education phase,

2:45

maybe prior to, you know,

2:47

students entering to kindergarten. But

2:49

I know that's a part of what

2:50

You're mention . No, that's, that's, that's a different , uh,

2:53

uh, that's , that's a different world than what I'm experiencing. Most

2:56

of the places where I'm at , um, school

2:59

systems are no longer, you

3:02

know , starting at kindergarten of

3:04

first grade , uh, the most of the school systems

3:06

I work with , uh, either have active

3:08

partnerships with community providers

3:10

of pre-k , um, active partnerships

3:13

with community providers of zero to

3:15

five programming , um, or are

3:18

doing some amount of it internally themselves.

3:21

And so , I , I think a lot of people who drug

3:23

the Kool-Aid on this thing, that if

3:25

we really want to position

3:27

our students for greatness , uh, that

3:29

coming in after the fact , uh,

3:32

when there're already some , um,

3:35

um, weaknesses in their readiness

3:37

to excel , um,

3:39

isn't, isn't probably the best

3:41

investment that we'd be better off. How

3:44

do we support families and how do we

3:46

support students earlier in the process , uh,

3:49

so that , uh, we can

3:51

help them accelerate when they hit

3:53

kindergarten and first grade, not

3:55

remediate.

3:57

I love that. And , and actually, you

3:59

know, based on your experience, AJ and some of the work

4:01

you're doing, like that model of, you

4:04

know, reaching all the way back to,

4:06

you know, you know, birth zero to five,

4:08

and it's not, it doesn't start

4:10

Concept

4:10

Yeah. Conception. Can you speak a

4:12

little bit about that and maybe do you have an any examples

4:15

just for a little context with some of the districts you

4:17

work with, where you've seen a

4:19

model of how districts

4:22

are partnering all the way back to that,

4:24

you know, again, zero to five, where,

4:26

you know, in terms of a best practice, like what's

4:28

working and how districts are trying to embrace

4:31

what you're describing, that methodology of like,

4:33

look, we can't be reactive

4:35

to these students' progress, and

4:38

when we get them at kindergarten, if they're already,

4:40

you know, behind, we're playing catch

4:42

up for the rest of their education. Yeah. What

4:44

, what do you see working?

4:46

Well , one of the things that I noticed, and I'm certainly,

4:49

you know , not at all the first to notice , uh, stand

4:51

on the shoulders of others who noticed to perform me and just pointed

4:53

it out. Um, but in my last

4:56

district , um, about, we

4:58

found out about 40% of our students

5:01

were showing up in kindergarten as

5:03

much as two grade levels behind where they

5:05

needed to be in order to be successful

5:07

in kindergarten. No , when I first heard

5:10

that I, my immediate response

5:12

was, that's not a thing. Like , it's

5:15

, it is not possible for children

5:17

to be developmentally two

5:19

years behind in kindergarten.

5:22

Um, but that is, that is absolutely what

5:24

we were experiencing. And

5:26

so our responses could

5:29

either be how do we remediate

5:31

for that? How do we build a kindergarten

5:34

program and a first grade, second grade

5:36

program that is strong enough to

5:38

take 40% of children being

5:41

developmentally behind one,

5:43

two or more years? And

5:46

how do we help

5:48

catch them up over the course of

5:50

their first 2, 3, 4 years in

5:53

our elementary programs ? That , that is one

5:55

approach . Um , but the

5:58

reality is remediation is incredibly

6:02

inefficient. And so

6:04

we began looking at are , are there other

6:06

options? And there have been cities

6:09

across the country who have

6:11

leaned in to trying to find other ways , um,

6:14

what some folks have done , which

6:17

popularized in , uh, New

6:20

York, but has picked up in other places. Um,

6:22

certainly we tried to create

6:24

partnerships like this in Kansas City , um,

6:28

San San Diego , no, not San Diego. San

6:30

Antonio as well known , uh,

6:32

for their community partnerships that they

6:35

did citywide in partnership with

6:37

the city and the district , um,

6:39

and others. It's actually spread into

6:41

a number of places. I believe Seattle is doing some of this,

6:45

is that there's real value in

6:49

creating this interwoven net of

6:51

supports so that the

6:53

family has all the resources

6:56

and connections that

6:58

it needs in order to

7:00

really set st it's their

7:02

children up for success , um, in

7:04

a way that is aligned

7:07

and continual, so people

7:09

are less likely to fall through the net . So by

7:13

thinking on this, is that , that actually

7:15

can start , um, um,

7:18

I pre, before

7:21

the child is born, and through

7:24

nurse family partnerships where local

7:26

safety net uh, hospitals

7:28

are actively working , uh, with

7:30

nurses to be engaging

7:33

with families , uh,

7:35

when the child is still in gestation,

7:38

helping , um, parents understand

7:41

what are the types of things that we could be doing at this

7:43

point to best set children up

7:45

for success. Obviously at

7:47

that point in the game, it's a lot of around nutrition,

7:50

but also we now have the research to

7:52

know that , uh, the stress response

7:55

that mom is experiencing has a powerful

7:57

impact on children , uh, while

7:59

they're still , um, in the womb. And

8:01

so trying to figure out how do we really create

8:04

a safe and protective environment , um,

8:06

for parents, you know, caregivers

8:08

, uh, while gestation is taking place.

8:11

Um, and that nurse , uh, family partnership

8:13

generally, you know, runs from , um,

8:16

from conception through six months,

8:18

you know , after birth. Um, after

8:21

that, then , uh, you step

8:23

into the gap next with parents

8:26

as teachers. There's some type of

8:28

program that's designed to really

8:30

help parents have all the tools that they

8:32

need to be effective at

8:37

helping children develop the pre

8:39

, uh, academic , um,

8:41

skills that they need. Um, one

8:43

area that's , uh, done some of this really

8:46

well is Boston. They, they have

8:48

, uh, this whole citywide

8:51

initiative they do around

8:54

what are the, the kind of the early

8:56

skills that , uh, children

8:58

need, and what are the things

9:00

that the adults and caregiver givers in

9:02

their life can be doing to help promote the

9:05

development of those things. I

9:07

think it's the , I think it's the

9:09

basic five is what they call it, I think. Um,

9:12

but what they're really looking

9:14

at is really that kind of parents as teachers

9:16

, uh, timeframe from six months

9:18

to three years old, we're really investing

9:21

a lot of energy and making sure that , uh,

9:23

again, our parents have all the things that they need

9:25

to do, what our parents won't

9:27

do, which is to really set their children up for success

9:30

in life. And then after

9:32

that, then you move into

9:34

pre-k whether you're three-year olds and

9:36

your four-year olds , and really what are the special

9:39

experiences that they need at that point , um,

9:42

that are going to set them up. Again,

9:44

a lot of this is still around executive functioning,

9:46

around play, around socialization,

9:49

as well as other pre-literacy numeracy

9:51

skills that then ultimately set you

9:53

up to be successful going into kindergarten, first

9:55

grade, and beyond. And so I see this

9:57

as a complete continuum. Some

10:00

families will have access to all the resources they

10:02

need to ensure that all of those

10:04

things happen without any external

10:06

, um, and some families

10:08

will need a little bit of support here, but not there or

10:11

there , but not here . My argument

10:13

is that for any family

10:16

that needs access to those type of

10:18

supports, that there is a

10:20

benefit to us at a societal level

10:23

to help make sure that those

10:25

type of supports are available. Because as

10:27

my neighbors, children do great. My

10:30

children do great.

10:31

Yeah. I love that. And , and are you, are you finding

10:34

across the country, I mean, I know that there's

10:36

gonna be nuance and variations

10:38

from community to community, but

10:41

are you finding that there's a gap?

10:43

You know, we see this a lot in headlines, a gap

10:45

across like demographics

10:48

and socioeconomic environments

10:50

that, like the resources available to

10:52

students and districts varies greatly,

10:55

or is it, is it not

10:57

a resource issue as much as it is like

10:59

an education issue in some, you know,

11:02

districts in terms of like just educating families of

11:04

what resources are available to them?

11:08

I'd, I'd have to spend some more time thinking about that. I'm

11:11

not, I'm not clear, because I can think of kind

11:14

of counter examples for each of those that

11:17

it , I'm thinking one particular community, it's a much

11:19

more rural community where all of the supports I just

11:21

described are in place , but none of them are in place

11:24

through formal structures , uh,

11:26

with the school system or the city or anything like that. They're

11:28

in place through the local church

11:31

, um, and the local community centers

11:33

and things of that nature where those systems are

11:35

just as available , um, to the general

11:37

public. So I

11:39

, you know , imagine a group of congregations

11:41

making these type of things available to

11:44

anyone, not just their congregants. Um,

11:47

and so that those networks of

11:49

safety nets still exist, but just

11:51

not necessarily through the auspices of the school

11:54

system . So, you know , what I'm, what I'm arguing

11:56

for is that the safety nets exist. Uh

11:58

, I'm agnostic to who

12:00

is providing them. Um, what I

12:02

would say is it insists in

12:05

areas where, for whatever reason, a

12:08

lot of our community organizations, faith-based organizations,

12:10

if they are not , uh,

12:12

bridging that gap, then I absolutely

12:14

am an advocate for , uh,

12:17

formal governmental structures, whether it be cities,

12:19

counties, or school systems , uh, looking

12:21

at should they play a role in bridging

12:23

that gap, or at minimum being

12:26

a coordinator of services among

12:28

private providers and practitioners

12:30

such that there is some continuity

12:32

of support for , uh, parents and

12:35

families, and that there is some alignment of

12:38

, uh, curricular alignment so

12:40

that what children need to learn

12:43

, need to know next year over

12:45

in that institution, they

12:47

are receiving the , uh,

12:50

pre-information they need for that

12:53

and the preparation they need for that over

12:55

here in this organization, in this institution, that there's

12:57

an alignment so that, you know, we're

13:00

really maximizing the benefit that children

13:02

and families are experiencing.

13:04

Yeah. And you , uh, uh, you know, I saw something

13:06

that you said on that topic, you know, just

13:08

doing a little bit of research for this, for this podcast,

13:10

I know one of the things that, you know,

13:12

you talk about like the purpose of

13:14

a school board in any community is

13:17

, and I , I might get this

13:19

quote, not a hundred percent right, so correct me,

13:21

but it's essentially like of all the other things a school

13:23

board does, the focus is to improve outcomes

13:26

for your students, all the other,

13:28

That's the only reason school systems exist is

13:31

to improve student outcomes to cause improvements

13:33

in what students don't are able to do . That's absolutely right.

13:35

So do you find that, that, with that in

13:38

mind, like the , the approach and

13:40

and acceptance of school boards that you

13:42

do consulting with and contracting with

13:44

that you interact with, that this

13:46

notion of embracing the zero to

13:49

five year old , like, look, it really starts before

13:51

students get into that kindergarten age

13:53

group that that's generally accepted,

13:55

or is that like something that you're finding you're

13:59

having to educate districts on and

14:01

continue to kind of like, bring that forward? Or is that generally

14:03

accepted that, hey, this starts before they actually

14:05

enter kindergarten?

14:07

Yeah. 15 years ago having this conversation,

14:09

I think people looked at me as scans and that , that

14:12

maybe it sounded weird to folks today, I

14:14

don't, I don't think that

14:16

concept is , uh, to

14:18

people. I think the only place

14:21

where we're negotiating

14:23

or navigating is who is

14:25

going to be the provider. Um,

14:27

but that children need the supports

14:30

seems to be largely recognized.

14:33

And where we have

14:35

debates is who should pay for it, who

14:38

should provide it, who should have what's say. Um,

14:41

and in some communities, they

14:43

don't want , uh, the public

14:45

school system or the city , uh,

14:48

or the government institutions playing a

14:50

role in this. They , they would rather , um,

14:52

community organizations, faith-based organizations

14:55

be that safety net, but then that's on

14:57

them to make sure that those organizations step up. And

15:00

then there , there're parts of the country where that's certainly

15:02

true. Um, I , I see that very

15:04

frequently and a lot of our rural communities

15:06

where we do see , uh, community

15:08

organizations step up in a way that is

15:11

significant to carry

15:13

, uh, carry the gap

15:15

that might exist in that community. Uh

15:18

, but I generally don't

15:20

see that level of , uh,

15:23

coordination among community and faith-based organizations sufficient

15:25

to address those gaps in

15:28

more urban areas where there's just a much

15:30

more higher density of population

15:33

where just the sheer numbers that we're dealing with yeah

15:36

. Are just overwhelming for any one

15:38

organization that it frankly isn't

15:40

a government organization. And so the , again,

15:43

that's why I say who is providing what

15:46

children need to me seems to be fairly consistent

15:49

across geography, across ideology,

15:52

across political spectrum, across the

15:55

, what children need is constant, how

15:58

we organize ourselves as adults to

16:00

ensure that those needs are met seems to be the

16:03

variable.

16:04

Yeah. And that kind of lines up with, you know,

16:06

one thing that I, I saw over and over again

16:08

and, and kind of researching a little

16:10

bit about the work that you're doing, AJ,

16:12

is, you know, you talk about , um,

16:15

I think this is the tagline on your website too,

16:17

where it's the main page is like, student outcomes

16:19

don't change until adult behaviors

16:21

change. That's

16:22

Right.

16:23

Can you speak a little bit like what

16:25

, how you formed or identify

16:27

that? Because if I go back a little bit in your story, it looks like

16:30

maybe your very first, at least

16:32

public community service as

16:34

it relates to school boards was in Kansas City. And

16:37

I know you did a lot of work of aligning the school system

16:39

with the e c E providers and, and

16:42

kind of pushing, you know, this,

16:44

this thought about how we can improve these outcomes

16:46

for students by, you know, being a

16:48

participant in their early stages of life.

16:51

But through that you kind of identified,

16:53

you know, it really boils down to adult

16:56

behavior. Can you talk a little bit about what

16:58

that means to you and, and , and how you use

17:00

that to drive change?

17:02

Yeah. What's critical here

17:05

is that in

17:08

making that statement, the student outcomes don't

17:10

change until adult behaviors change, that

17:12

I am actively removing

17:14

from culpability , uh, anything

17:16

about the child. And , and so one , one thing

17:19

that just absolutely infuriates me is anytime

17:21

as adults that , that we place

17:24

on the child, well , the

17:26

reason that they are not excelling

17:29

is because there's something intrinsically

17:31

wrong with the child . I'm

17:34

not suggesting that there's

17:36

not circumstances in which that might be the

17:38

case. What I am suggesting is that where

17:42

I see organizations stand that

17:45

positions them to have the largest net benefit

17:48

is that they stand in a place

17:50

of, if there is anything

17:52

that is going to be worthful for this

17:54

particular child, it will emerge

17:57

from my willingness to evaluate, to interrogate,

17:59

and ultimately to change my adult behavior. That

18:02

I'm not gonna wait till we get the right children

18:04

to show up before I

18:06

step into action. And we're not gonna wait till we get

18:08

the right parents or the right system

18:10

. But I'm gonna constantly looking at

18:12

what is it in my behavior that

18:15

could be a cause for this child not

18:17

having what they deserve. And

18:20

inside of that acknowledgement, what

18:23

is the next step that I can be taking to be

18:25

of service to this child? It is a willful

18:29

disobedience to the idea

18:31

of casting blame anywhere else.

18:34

Uh, and , and instead saying that I'm

18:36

going to be personally responsible for the welfare of

18:38

the children in my community , um,

18:40

so much so that I'm, that I'm not going

18:42

to look to share that responsibility, you

18:45

know, with anyone else. I'm not gonna be looking to blame

18:47

the , um, the failure of

18:49

our children having their needs met on anyone

18:51

else. So that's, that's the concept. And

18:53

, and what I found is that when

18:56

a system , uh, when a team of

18:58

adults choose to stand in this place,

19:01

cause I'm not suggesting to you this is some truth

19:03

or something, I'm , I'm saying this is a place to stand

19:06

inside of which we're more

19:08

empowered to get results for children. That

19:10

if I'm, that , if I'm comfortable looking

19:12

for excuses, if I'm comfortable looking for

19:15

someone else to blame, there will always be

19:17

the occasion to blame. There will always be

19:19

some rational excuse for why

19:21

children didn't do what they needed . And to the extent

19:24

that I'm willing to accept that children will

19:26

suffer. But, but if I am , if I

19:28

am willfully disobedient to

19:30

my ego need, and instead

19:32

say, you know what? I am personally responsible

19:35

for creating the context of greatness

19:37

for the children of my community, and

19:40

that if there's not greatness for them right

19:42

now, that the lack thereof

19:45

is a demonstration of my

19:47

behavior, and , and that as I change my behavior,

19:49

that I can actually have an impact

19:52

on what's possible for those children. That

19:54

when organizations choose

19:56

to stand in that place and choose to

19:58

operate from that place, the great things

20:01

, uh, are more likely to happen for children.

20:04

Yeah. I , I mean I , obviously it's, I

20:06

think that's a , a mindset and

20:08

a framework that probably applies to all

20:10

different, you know, areas of life

20:13

for individuals of like looking at like,

20:15

look, what, what can I control? It's what

20:17

I'm capable of controlling. It's what I

20:19

can take responsibility of. It's what I can that's

20:21

right . Be responsible for, and

20:24

then go make an impact with what I

20:26

can do. And if everybody kind of does that in

20:28

whatever, you know, environment or arena we're

20:31

in, I, I love that approach

20:33

to, you know, engaging with

20:36

life. Do you find when you're, you

20:38

know, consulting with districts, and I say consulting

20:40

cuz I, I believe that you interact a with

20:42

a lot of different public school systems.

20:45

I know that you do more , work more closely

20:47

with some than others, but do you find that

20:49

mindset is prevalent?

20:52

Like that mindset of , you know, I,

20:54

I see a lot of headlines around, you

20:56

know, how difficult it is to be a teacher nowadays

20:59

and the challenges of being in the

21:02

classroom with the number of students and the

21:04

different constraints. And so I,

21:06

you know, to, to play the other side of that card, do you hear

21:08

a lot of like, well that's, you know, that's great for you

21:10

to say AJ about taking responsibility,

21:13

but it's a lot easier said than done

21:16

cuz the environment has changed it . Would

21:18

you say that, is that a fair, accurate

21:20

representation of how a lot of teachers feel?

21:22

Or is, is that an unfair assessment that we

21:24

see in the media and do you find a lot of public

21:27

educators that embrace that

21:29

kind of approach that you just described?

21:33

Yeah, one of the things in

21:36

my, in a previous job,

21:38

I worked at the state education

21:40

agency in Texas, and

21:43

part of my role there was to support

21:45

our school improvement team.

21:47

And so the school improvement team

21:50

at the state agency is really responsible for

21:52

reaching out to and working with the

21:54

lowest performing 5% of

21:56

schools across the state. Um

21:58

, in Texas it's like 400 schools. I

22:00

mean , it's a big state. There's a lot of schools. And so the

22:03

lowest performing 4% is still a huge number.

22:06

And so in this role, I , uh,

22:08

my team and I, we'd go out and we'd visit some

22:11

of these schools, even

22:14

visiting the lowest performing 5%

22:17

of schools across the state . I

22:20

can't recall a single

22:22

time I ever walked into a school and

22:25

saw a lazy teacher who just

22:27

was kicked up their feet and wasn't

22:30

trying, or , uh, I can't recall a

22:32

single time or ever saw a teacher who, you know , they

22:34

just didn't care if kids learned or not. Like, I'm

22:36

just here for a paycheck. Like I, you

22:39

would think if there's any place I'm gonna see it, I'd

22:41

see it in the lowest performing 5%

22:44

of schools across the country . Yeah , across the state. Never

22:46

saw it . What I saw without exception

22:49

was people working hard, people putting

22:51

in the best effort that they knew how people

22:53

putting it all on the field, doing everything

22:56

that they could in the service of the children in

22:58

their classroom. Uh, now that

23:00

didn't change the fact that

23:02

clearly something wasn't working, but

23:05

what was at play wasn't

23:07

that there weren't people who were already willing

23:10

, uh, to be , uh,

23:12

the genesis of transformation. The students,

23:15

like really they were just supports that

23:17

they didn't have that they , like, you could row as

23:19

hard as you want, but

23:22

if the person on the other side of the canoe is rowing

23:25

in the exact opposite direction , uh, then you're

23:27

probably not gonna go anywhere. And if the person in the front of

23:29

the canoe is rowing off in a different direction, and

23:32

so there are things like alignment that

23:34

matter. And so, you know , the first grade teachers

23:36

go in that direction, the second grade teachers go in that direction,

23:38

third grade teachers , then all three of them can be

23:40

working as hard as they possibly can , but

23:43

it's still not amount to the impact

23:46

that they intend. Those are the type of

23:48

issues I'd run across is people engaged

23:50

in mis unintentionally misaligned

23:53

behavior. But no, this idea that

23:56

there are these and teachers who are hostile

23:58

to the possibility for children, I've, I've

24:00

not met that teacher anywhere. And so this idea

24:02

that people are willing to be personally

24:05

accountable for what's working now , working with

24:07

children, that seems to be fairly constant.

24:10

It's inside of that. And

24:13

really reflecting on that and living into that

24:15

and trying to identify, okay, what

24:18

is it that I specifically could be doing differently

24:21

, uh, the the changing of

24:23

which would really accrue to the

24:25

benefit of children. And, and I find people constantly

24:28

struggling with that. Like, I just don't know what

24:30

is the change I need to make that would have the biggest

24:32

difference. But that's where I

24:34

see people living the most is

24:37

what is the thing that

24:39

is most needed and not knowing what that is and

24:41

not knowing, does that sit over there with you? Does

24:43

that sit over here with me ? But my

24:45

experience has very consistently been that

24:49

inviting people into that conversation with

24:51

teachers all over the state, all over

24:54

the country, that folks are eager

24:56

to be in that conversation. And

24:58

then what they're hungry for is, okay, then

25:00

what is the specific thing I need to do ? What is

25:02

the next step? And then the next is

25:07

across the country.

25:08

Yeah. That's an encouraging narrative

25:10

and story and a perspective that I think is,

25:13

is valuable that, you know, we've got really

25:15

talented, passionate educators,

25:18

you know, across the spectrum, you know, zero

25:20

to, you know, they,

25:23

when students graduate, they

25:25

just need resources and education and

25:27

support. And it's not a , an

25:29

issue of are they passionate and wanting

25:31

the best outcomes for students. So I personally,

25:34

I love to hear that that's what individuals

25:37

who have boots on the ground are seeing in our public

25:39

schools specifically. Just

25:41

maybe to, to talk back to E

25:44

C E and what, when we talk about early, you

25:46

know, childhood education prior to that

25:48

kindergarten phase mm-hmm . <affirmative> and like curriculum

25:51

and like what districts, when you're, when you're

25:53

talking about, hey, when a

25:55

student enrolls in kindergarten, the

25:58

minimum benchmarks that we're looking

26:00

for that student to be able to

26:02

have. Like, is there, is there a role that curriculum

26:05

plays both when parents are

26:07

leading the education at home, but also,

26:09

you know, in in early childhood programs

26:12

and in preschool settings, is are

26:14

there certain educational benchmarks that

26:16

you're looking for at that kindergarten

26:18

level?

26:19

Yes. And this ver tends to vary by state.

26:22

There are a lot of different states will have a kindergarten

26:24

screener that is offered

26:26

by the state agency or that is fairly commonly

26:29

used across the state as a way of evaluating

26:31

where children when they're coming into kindergarten and

26:34

how do we need to adapt the kindergarten

26:36

experience to match them . If

26:38

, if I had to make a

26:41

, a call to action for your

26:43

listeners, it'd be what are

26:45

ways that our

26:48

early childhood providers are

26:51

partnering with the school system to

26:54

really study what

26:56

is it that students need to

26:59

come to kindergarten successful with, and

27:01

how do we back map that into

27:03

the pre-kindergarten experience

27:06

such that children have the greatest

27:08

chance of being successful. Often

27:11

I find this is just an alignment issue

27:13

that people just aren't talking to people like often.

27:16

It is really that simple, what I would call

27:18

on , uh, on your listeners

27:20

to consider, talk with your local school

27:23

district, figure out when is the professional development

27:25

for kindergarten teachers and can

27:27

our staff, you know, join for

27:29

free? Like , uh, can we come in and

27:31

participate with your kindergarten,

27:34

first grade teachers and professional development so

27:36

that we can understand what you all are doing and we can

27:39

try to figure out what adjustments do we need to make as

27:41

community providers to try to make

27:43

sure that we're in sync in

27:45

a way that's in the best interest of our students. Uh,

27:47

it's a , it's an extra effort. I'll , I'll be the first to

27:49

acknowledge it's an extra effort, but it's not an effort

27:52

that's designed to benefit me. It's designed a bit for

27:54

my children. And I think that's something that, you know,

27:56

all of our community providers will get behind

27:58

that I , that I'm willing to put in an extra effort, willing

28:01

to take that extra step , uh,

28:03

if the district is willing to be a

28:05

partner with it , uh, in

28:07

the benefit of our children. I'd also be

28:09

looking at alignment of instructional materials

28:11

and visiting with the curriculum

28:14

instruction , uh, team at the school

28:16

or at or at the, or

28:18

at the school system to talk

28:20

about what are the materials you all are using and

28:22

is there any way that we could have access to those

28:25

materials. A lot of school systems are already operating

28:27

their own pre-K programs themselves,

28:29

which means they have their own pre-k

28:31

, um, um, instructional materials,

28:34

their own pre-K assessment instruments

28:36

and all these sort of things. Are there ways

28:38

that they'd be willing to partner with community

28:41

providers to get access to those so that the

28:43

community provider in the school district can

28:45

be working from the same , uh,

28:48

playbook, singing from the same hymnal? Again,

28:50

not because that's great for the provider or

28:52

for the school system, but because that would be great for

28:54

children.

28:55

Yeah. Because then they're gonna have a natural progression

28:58

from that, you know, preschool or that

29:00

enrichment environment in

29:02

the care and garden , which, you know, I would imagine maybe

29:05

there's studies on this, but I would imagine if a student

29:07

has a seamless, you know, transition

29:09

from an education standpoint, it

29:12

helps with all the other, you know, the social factors

29:14

and their, you know, adoption of , um,

29:17

you know, making friends and, and you know, emotional

29:19

wellbeing and, and those types of things. I don't know if

29:21

there's studies on that, but it seems like if there's public

29:24

school systems partnering with their e c

29:26

e providers, like you said, to

29:29

truly focus on what's best for the students

29:31

in our community, that that type

29:33

of partnership would play a big role in that.

29:36

Yeah, honestly, I can't think of studying

29:39

specifically about the transition from pre-K

29:41

to kindergarten though. I'd be surprised if one

29:43

doesn't exist. I have read studies

29:45

that talk about the transition from

29:48

elementary to middle or from middle to

29:50

high. And what sometimes

29:52

comes out in those is this

29:54

assertion that where you see children

29:57

struggle , um, in those transition

30:00

years is when there are significant shifts

30:02

in expectations , uh, significant

30:05

shifts in norms , uh,

30:07

that the students , um,

30:09

aren't prepared for the offered

30:11

an appropriate amount of scaffolding for. And

30:14

so they need to kind of throwing children into

30:16

a new environment without adequate preparation and,

30:18

and just not working out for

30:21

them . And, and so if that's true in

30:23

those transition grades, I

30:26

don't see any reason why that wouldn't also likely

30:28

be true , um, in the

30:30

, uh, pre-k to kindergarten

30:32

transition as well. Um, such

30:34

that a strong collaboration

30:37

between providers could actually

30:39

make a real difference for children.

30:41

Yeah, I would think so too. And I, you know, from

30:43

your comment earlier and , and some of

30:45

what you've seen, you know, across all the

30:47

work that you're doing, you know, the idea of trying

30:49

to have to play catch up , it

30:51

seems like such a difficult challenge with students.

30:54

It's not a good plan.

30:55

Yeah , it's not a good plan. So the earlier you can be in

30:57

front of just getting that child in

31:00

the right system with the right support,

31:03

all the right resources to start

31:05

from day one, like you said, even before

31:08

that child's born, we're supporting

31:10

that child's development and education

31:13

that that environment

31:15

fosters the greatest chance of success for

31:18

the greatest number of students it sounds like, as opposed

31:20

to playing catch up .

31:21

So certainly. Well, and, and I'm gonna run

31:23

the risk of insulting, I don't know if this will be

31:25

insulting to you or any of your listeners, but , uh,

31:27

I , I wanna draw a distinction , um, that the evidence

31:29

I'm looking at does not suggest that

31:31

the same benefits are conferred by daycare

31:34

as they are by , uh, early childhood education.

31:37

You know , um, I realize I'm being a little bit flippant

31:39

here, but you know, five kids in

31:41

a play pen at Grandma's house while she watches

31:44

these days of our lives, is not the same thing as

31:46

actually having a , uh, authentic early

31:48

childhood education , uh, experience

31:51

, uh, that , um, is

31:53

benefited by and led by , uh,

31:55

professionals who have training in early

31:58

childhood education development. We, we have

32:00

an understanding that the neurological development

32:02

taking place and a zero to five space is

32:05

very different. And what is developmentally appropriate

32:07

for that grade age span is very different

32:10

than what would be appropriate for kindergarten

32:12

first. And I , I could point to plenty

32:14

of school district who said, oh, well pre-K, that's just , uh,

32:18

we'll just put some kindergarten teachers there and it's the same thing,

32:20

right? It's in fact not the same thing. It's

32:22

like saying kindergarten's the same thing, you

32:24

know , is eighth grade. Like, it's just, it's

32:26

fundamentally a different thing requires

32:28

different skillset , different tool set

32:30

, um, and different preparation. And so

32:33

to have a truly effective early

32:35

childhood education program, we need professionals

32:38

who have actually been trained.

32:40

Um , and what are the needs of children at

32:42

those age groups and, and how are we making sure

32:45

that those needs are being honored in the program design

32:48

that they're receiving? Uh , daycare and early

32:50

childhood education are not the same thing

32:52

. And I realize that's gonna be insulting some

32:54

, some folks, but the evidence on

32:56

this seems to be pretty clear.

32:58

Yeah. I'm glad you brought up that topic cuz

33:00

I think, you know, I think in our industry,

33:03

and when I, again, I , when I refer to our industry, you

33:05

know, the e c e space, you

33:07

know, we have seen a major shift

33:09

over the past, you know, couple of decades from

33:12

the idea of, look, it really doesn't

33:14

matter, as long as the child is alive from zero

33:16

to five, once they get to kindergarten, it'll

33:18

all work out fine. But I think we've seen

33:20

this shift that those early years

33:23

are extremely,

33:24

They matter,

33:25

They matter , they matter. And maybe more

33:27

so arguably than

33:30

a lot of the other stages throughout

33:32

a child's development in terms of

33:34

how the brain develops during that, you know, zero

33:36

to five. And so with that in mind , your

33:39

point about, you know, offending some, I

33:41

think your sentiment resonates with our

33:44

audience that there is a responsibility

33:46

and a desire from, you know, our

33:48

community to be educators

33:50

to partner and to get these students on the

33:53

right track and ready for that, you know,

33:55

that kindergarten experience for sure. I

33:57

like that. What , how did you get , uh,

33:59

I'm curious, I, you usually, I would ask this at the

34:01

beginning, but you know, kind of rewinding your

34:04

story a little bit and the work you're

34:06

doing now, aj I , if

34:08

I read correctly, the first time

34:10

that I saw that you were in public service was in Kansas

34:13

City as part of the school board. Was there something that,

34:15

like what was the, the,

34:17

the seed of that for you ? Uh , uh,

34:19

something you've always been passionate about in terms of

34:21

education? Was it your own personal experience

34:23

or something that led you to

34:26

kind of like dedicate your energy into

34:28

these causes?

34:30

So certainly there's , uh, I think all of us are

34:33

in some way inspired by our own personal narrative,

34:35

own personal story. I certainly had

34:37

tremendous blessings from

34:42

some of my public school teachers who just

34:44

stepped up for me in ways that I

34:46

was not even cognizant of how hard

34:49

they were going to bat for me at the time that I've only

34:51

learned in recent years from

34:53

reaching back out to them . Uh , in fact , um,

34:56

<laugh> in my book, I , uh, in the introduction

34:58

to the book, I tell a story about

35:01

two of my teachers who , um,

35:04

just really stood up for me and,

35:06

and didn't take crap off of me <laugh>

35:09

and really said, no, you're gonna be great and

35:11

we're gonna make it happen. And this whole surly

35:14

attitude you have, we're not accepting that , um,

35:16

you're going to be, you are capable of more and

35:18

you're gonna be more. And so these two teachers, they pushed

35:20

for that even while other teachers

35:22

were duped into , uh,

35:25

believing me what I pretended

35:27

that I was not capable and didn't want to

35:29

engage and didn't wanna learn , uh, that

35:31

I tell a story of two teachers who could not be

35:34

fooled. Um, and one

35:36

of my favorite, favorite moments as I was writing

35:38

the book is I actually reached out to,

35:40

reached out to them and one of them lives

35:42

in Phoenix now, actually flew

35:45

to Phoenix , um, to meet

35:47

with her. Um, and

35:49

it's like, Hey , I don't know if you remember

35:51

who I am . She's like, oh, I remember exactly who you are

35:54

and I've followed you , uh, ever since,

35:56

you know, high school and you know , um,

35:58

when you started businesses and when you got

36:01

into education and you know, all the things you're doing. I've

36:03

followed you when you went to Texas and you know,

36:05

I'm just so proud of all you've accomplished. And I'm like , over

36:07

here like, yeah , I'm all choke it

36:09

up. It's like , it's , it's the pollens , the pollen . Um

36:12

, you know , but like , she poured

36:14

into me and , and she told me

36:16

stories that day that I had no

36:19

idea some of the, the links that

36:21

her and some of the other teachers went to to

36:23

try to make sure that I got , uh, the

36:25

education that I needed in order to be able to

36:28

have this conversation with you today. Um,

36:30

and so certainly, you know, when it

36:32

comes to, you know, why I do

36:34

this work , uh, certainly a

36:36

significant portion of that is caught up in,

36:40

I've just been richly blessed, richly

36:42

blessed beyond all belief,

36:45

beyond all deserving. And

36:47

the manifestation of that blessing

36:49

, uh, very often was with the hands

36:51

of teachers. Um, and so what

36:54

, having this deep seated desire for

36:57

other children to experience the

36:59

same blessings that I experienced is

37:02

, is certainly a significant part of it.

37:04

Do you remember going back to those teachers

37:07

that you just referenced for yourself personally, like

37:09

at that time in your life where they

37:11

were holding you accountable and

37:13

calling you your attitude out, they saw

37:15

potential and they saw

37:18

what you were capable of. Do you

37:20

remember actually recognizing

37:22

that at the time? Like, oh, wow, like I'm

37:25

attracted to that in these teachers

37:27

that they're not taking my

37:29

act? Or was it later in life

37:31

as you reflected back that you, you saw that? I'm

37:34

just curious, like if students generally

37:37

recognize that.

37:38

No, I , I think my story

37:41

is very much caught

37:43

up in , um, a common story

37:46

that many people share and that

37:48

there's that teacher who you

37:51

don't care anything about their subject going

37:54

into the class, but

37:56

then after being around them, the kind of the enthusiasm

37:59

they bring to it, the sense of connection

38:01

and investment that they show in you, all of

38:03

a sudden now you care about a topic that you never cared

38:05

about before. Yeah . Um, you know,

38:08

you know , Mr . Deth , my senior year , um,

38:11

teaching history and anthropology

38:13

and was the , um,

38:15

facilitator for the chess club, three

38:18

things that I prior

38:21

to that was like, I don't care about history,

38:23

anthropology, your chest wound up being on

38:25

the chess team. Um, but that's

38:27

because, you know , his

38:30

investment in me, his caring , his expression

38:33

of love for me and his expression of love for

38:35

his content areas got me excited about

38:37

it. Um, you know , you know , Mrs. Murray

38:39

, the economics teacher, I had

38:42

no interest in economics and it thought it would

38:44

be an easy, you , uh, uh,

38:46

easy elective. Um,

38:48

but her passion for economics,

38:51

her passion for business, you know, the micro

38:54

mesa and macro economics , um, got

38:56

me excited and her investment in me and her

38:59

unwillingness to see anything other than greatness

39:01

in me and got me to, you know, get

39:03

involved with , um, the , uh,

39:06

junior achievement , um,

39:08

program and , uh,

39:10

win the regional small business competition,

39:13

you know, for high schoolers that year. Uh

39:15

, but this is, this, this

39:18

was not a whole lot about who

39:20

I was, how I showed up, and what my interests

39:22

were. This is about the love and

39:24

dedication that they had both

39:26

for their content area and for me

39:29

as a kind of attitudinal,

39:31

surly student in their class.

39:33

Yeah. And I can see how some

39:35

of that has shaped, you know, your

39:37

p philosophy, guiding philosophies and what

39:39

you do now or just around Yeah

39:41

. You know , taking accountability, meaning you

39:43

might see a student who's acting out

39:45

or shows that they're disinterested or, but

39:48

you don't know that child's story. You don't know what

39:50

they're capable of, and you actually just

39:52

own what you can control, which is love

39:55

on that student, invest in them and

39:58

trust that that's gonna produce

40:01

the best outcomes. And so you see it happen. Were

40:03

they, were those teachers surprised? Like

40:05

that teacher in Phoenix, just last question on

40:07

that topic, was she surprised to

40:10

hear from you that the impact that it

40:12

it had on you? Was

40:15

she not surprised? Was that a common theme

40:17

for her? Do you know?

40:18

You know , I, you know, I don't know that I fully asked

40:21

that. I do know that I'm gonna be in Phoenix soon and

40:23

I plan to , uh, grab a bite to eat with

40:25

her again, I'm gonna add that to my list of things, you

40:27

know , to ask. Cause I didn't

40:29

really, I think I was so caught up in the emotion of

40:31

the moment learning about the way that she stood

40:34

in the gap for me, that I didn't even get around to asking

40:37

how commonplace was this in her experience?

40:39

You know, how often was this the need that

40:41

she was finding herself, having to step into

40:43

that. Um, I , I'm certainly

40:45

curious about that now. And so, you know, when I, when

40:47

I reconnect with her again, when I'm back in town , um,

40:51

uh, that's definitely gonna be on the conversation,

40:53

Ask that question. And I think it's a good, you know,

40:55

to have the perspective, you know, obviously

40:57

on a show like this, to, to hear a story

40:59

like that, you know, so much of

41:01

our audience, aj, our teachers

41:03

and educators and, and just, it's just

41:05

a great reminder. Cause I think teachers

41:08

and educators need that. Like, you

41:10

are making a difference and they're students every

41:13

day that you have the ability to impact and you just don't

41:15

know what they're gonna go on

41:16

To do out . They're planting seeds and

41:18

they don't know what the or is gonna look like 10,

41:21

20, 30, 40 years from now, but they , but they, but they're expert,

41:23

expert seed sowers.

41:25

That's a great way to say it. And then you reference

41:28

, I know we're, we're kind of running short on time here, but I

41:30

wanna give you an opportunity. You referenced the, a book that

41:32

you wrote recently, and

41:34

I, and I always try to give our, you

41:36

know , um, you know,

41:38

our guests, the ability to share how , how can

41:40

our audience find you, like for people in districts

41:42

across the country who maybe are interested in the work

41:44

you're doing and some of the thoughts you've shared, you

41:47

reference to books , so maybe you could plug that, but also

41:49

how can our audience find you if they're interested in

41:52

learning more about what you're doing?

41:53

Yeah. In addition to working with individual

41:55

schools. Um, and then in addition

41:58

to being an advocate for education

42:01

policies that I believe can make a difference, like early childhood

42:03

education policies , um,

42:05

I also work with school boards and

42:07

really challenging them as the local policymaker

42:10

to lean into these type of strategies.

42:13

And so I finally got around to, after

42:15

doing a lot of coaching on it, finding a book

42:17

on it. And the book is called Great

42:19

on their Behalf, you know, why school boards

42:22

fail and How Yours can become effective. And

42:24

, and it really , um, is

42:26

the book that I wish , um, that somebody

42:29

had written that I had access to. Um,

42:31

ideally I'd hope that your readers would

42:33

, uh, that your listeners would consider

42:36

that if they really have a heart , uh,

42:38

for children and they really wanna see great

42:40

things for the children in their community, consider

42:42

running for your local school board. Um, and that

42:45

the intention of this book is to help prepare

42:47

you with the knowledge, skills, and mindset necessary , uh,

42:50

to be effective on behalf of the students you serve .

42:53

Excellent. And it's, if I'm not mistaken, your

42:56

website too . I know there's some content on

42:58

there, but , um, is it ajc

43:01

seven.com ? Is that right?

43:03

Uh, yeah, people just go to aj cra.com . Um

43:05

, it gets you there. If you wanna learn more about the book

43:08

, go behalf com . Um

43:10

, but to connect with me personally or

43:13

to see some of the things that , uh, I'm

43:15

doing in the space, yeah, just go to aj cra.com

43:18

.

43:19

Excellent. Aj, we , uh, we really appreciate

43:21

you carving out an hour of your time

43:23

to spend with us. I think it was , uh, an

43:26

insightful conversation. Exciting to

43:28

hear the work that's happening and we'll

43:30

track along and we'll follow the work that you're doing,

43:33

maybe vice versa, and maybe there'll be a part

43:35

two at some point in the future.

43:38

Well , I'm just grateful for you making time for me

43:40

and just keep doing the great work you're doing.

43:42

Thank you, aj. Have a great day.

43:46

Thank you for listening to this episode

43:49

of the Childcare Business Podcast. To

43:51

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43:53

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44:00

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44:02

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44:04

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44:07

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