1:57

Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast

1:59

. We're bringing you the stories that are shaping

2:02

Church of Christ congregations and members

2:04

around the world . Here's our host

2:06

, BT Irwin .

2:08

Family and friends , neighbors and , most

2:10

of all , strangers . Welcome to

2:12

the Christian Chronicle Podcast . May what you

2:14

are about to hear bless you and

2:16

honor God . This time we've got some real

2:18

live collegiate national champions with

2:21

us . They'll tell you what it took to claim their

2:23

spot at the top of their sport , while

2:25

staying true to Jesus Christ . We're

2:27

also going to Turkey . Well , the Christian Chronicles'

2:30

Audrey Jackson went to Turkey and she brought

2:32

back news about how Christians in that

2:34

country are recovering from the earthquakes

2:36

that destroyed so many lives

2:38

a year ago . How might God be working

2:40

among them to bring new life from

2:43

the rubble ? But first here

2:45

in the United States . Immigration may be

2:47

the most important and urgent issue

2:49

of our time . Here's my

2:51

personal observation . Americans on the left

2:53

, in the middle and on the right all

2:55

agree the immigration law and the immigration

2:58

system in the United States is failing

3:00

everyone , both citizens and immigrants

3:02

alike . Surely , it is possible

3:04

to solve some of those problems , but the

3:07

political incentives seem to reward politicians

3:09

who fight and obstruct each other rather

3:12

than find ways to get things done . Meanwhile

3:15

, in churches across the United States , christians

3:17

are wrestling with themselves . On

3:25

one hand , the Bible is emphatic that the people of God should lavish aliens , immigrants and outsiders

3:27

with the same hospitality that they would give to family , friends and the native-born

3:29

. Indeed , this was the hallmark of

3:31

early Christianity in the first three centuries

3:34

. On the other hand , some would question

3:36

whether it is right to take bread out of the mouths

3:38

of their own children and give it to others . Is

3:41

it not also godly and good to protect and

3:43

provide for one's own community and home ? I

3:45

mean , when the oxygen mask falls from

3:47

the ceiling , do the flight attendants not say

3:49

to put it on yourself first and then help others

3:51

? Well , we're not here to go over the points

3:54

and counterpoints of the immigration debate

3:56

in the United States , but we do have

3:58

someone here today who can give us some new insight

4:00

into what Christians are thinking about

4:02

it and how that is affecting them and their congregations

4:05

. Scott

4:07

McConnell is Executive Director of LifeWay

4:09

Research in Nashville , tennessee , and they recently

4:12

released a report on evangelical

4:14

attitudes on immigration and immigration

4:16

policy in the United States . Now

4:18

, before we go on , yes , I know that

4:20

a lot maybe most folks in the Church

4:22

of Christ community do not consider

4:24

themselves to be evangelical . That's

4:27

okay . I'm not saying that you are , but

4:29

outside research organizations

4:31

find enough characteristics about us

4:33

that we share in common with evangelicals

4:35

that they put us in the evangelical category

4:38

when doing research like what we'll hear about

4:40

today . So , scott , welcome back

4:42

. It's your second time on the show . Thanks for coming

4:44

back to be with us today . Thanks for having me All

4:47

right . Well , let's start with the big picture . First

4:49

of all , how do you define

4:51

evangelical for the purpose of your

4:54

survey ? And then , how many evangelicals

4:56

did you survey and what did you want

4:58

to find out from them on this particular report ?

5:00

Yeah , there's at least three

5:02

different ways you can define evangelicals

5:05

and we actually used two of them on this survey

5:07

. So we surveyed just over a thousand Americans

5:10

and they qualified if they

5:13

identified themselves as

5:15

an evangelical . But

5:17

before we asked that question and actually used

5:19

the word , we also asked

5:21

for belief questions and if they strongly

5:24

agreed with those four beliefs , we

5:26

categorized them as having evangelical

5:28

beliefs and they qualified for the

5:30

survey as well .

5:31

Yeah , what were those four beliefs ?

5:33

Believing that the Bible is the highest authority for

5:36

what you believe . Saying , it's very

5:38

important for me personally to encourage non-Christians

5:41

to trust Jesus Christ as their Savior , strongly

5:45

agreeing that Jesus Christ's death on the cross is

5:47

the only sacrifice that can remove the penalty

5:49

of my sin , and strongly agreeing

5:51

that only those who trust in Jesus Christ alone

5:54

as their Savior receive God's free gift

5:56

of eternal salvation .

5:59

So what did you want to find out when you decided

6:01

to do this study ?

6:03

It's actually the third time we've done this study but

6:05

really trying to understand where

6:07

evangelicals are at . You

6:10

know , our culture has

6:12

for a long time had a lot of different beliefs about immigration

6:15

, and increasingly politicians

6:17

are talking about immigration and using

6:19

it kind of for leverage for what

6:22

they're trying to promote . And so trying

6:24

to understand , you know , before people put words

6:26

into the mouths of a group that does

6:28

show up on some political polling categories

6:31

, what do the people actually

6:33

believe ? First of all , one of the key

6:35

elements here is that most evangelicals

6:38

are ready for change . The status

6:40

quo is not serving

6:42

anyone well right now , and so 77%

6:45

of them say it's important for

6:48

them personally that

6:50

Congress take past

6:52

significant new legislation on immigration

6:54

. Nine out of 10 say it should protect

6:56

the unity of the immediate family . Sometimes

6:59

that's very hard to do if only a child shows up

7:01

at the border , but as a

7:03

principle , that's something

7:05

we should be striving for Respecting

7:07

the rule of law , guaranteeing

7:10

the security of our national borders , ensuring

7:13

fairness to taxpayers , and

7:16

one that does not hit 90% . But three-fourths

7:18

of evangelicals believe that

7:21

those changes , that legislation , should establish

7:23

a path towards citizenship for

7:25

those who do not have legal status today

7:28

. Those are some general principles , that there's

7:30

been agreement really since 2015

7:33

, when we first asked some of these questions . Evangelicals

7:36

are very supportive of some of those broad

7:38

directions and sometimes we

7:40

get caught up in a narrative

7:42

that's oversimplified about

7:46

whose fault it is rather

7:48

than actually saying well , what are we

7:50

actually trying to accomplish here ?

7:53

So one of the things I picked up from skimming the survey is that it

7:55

seems that evangelicals who responded they're not disagreeable toward each other

7:57

on this is that it seems that evangelicals who responded

7:59

they're not disagreeable toward

8:01

each other on this , but it seems like they're

8:03

trying to hold on to two what

8:05

seem like opposing poles . So everything you just

8:07

mentioned , even the path to

8:10

citizenship , and

8:13

yet wanting a change in policy

8:15

because there seems to be a consensus

8:17

that there's a crisis of some kind with immigration

8:19

. So would you say that's

8:21

accurate , that evangelicals are kind of trying

8:23

to hold on to both ends of this issue

8:27

at the same time ?

8:28

I would say there's more than just two ends to it . It's

8:32

a complicated issue and sometimes

8:34

some of the individual things that

8:36

are causing problems in our immigration system

8:39

, it's pretty obvious

8:41

what the solution would be and yet

8:43

it gets rolled up into some of the bigger

8:45

arguments and the progress

8:47

doesn't get made . So

8:50

I would point to one question , and

8:52

this question will kind of show us two tensions

8:54

. We

8:56

gave a statement to the respondents

8:58

Christians

9:00

have a responsibility to care sacrificially for refugees and

9:03

other foreigners , and seven out

9:05

of 10 say yes , christians

9:07

have that responsibility , and so

9:09

that's implying that care

9:12

, as in love , we

9:14

should be definitely compassionate toward

9:16

those who are coming to our country . But

9:19

the sacrificially word kind of implies

9:21

that financially it could impact

9:23

us . So one of the tensions

9:25

that that ties to is the very

9:28

next question we asked was Christians

9:30

have a responsibility to assist immigrants

9:33

, even if they're here illegally . So

9:36

one of the tensions is legal versus

9:38

illegal , documented versus

9:40

undocumented . Still , a majority

9:42

of Christians agree that we have a responsibility

9:45

to assist even if someone

9:47

is here illegally , but

9:50

it's just 55% , so it drops a very

9:52

noticeable 15% from

9:54

the 70% who said we should be caring

9:56

sacrificially . The

9:59

other tension that that caring sacrificially

10:01

kind of ties to was the opening question

10:03

on our survey that really kind of captured

10:05

just an emotional reaction

10:07

of people . We gave nine or eight

10:09

statements and said which

10:11

of these reflect your beliefs about

10:13

the number of immigrants coming

10:15

to our country ? Number one answer

10:18

which people were really spread out

10:20

on their answers so this was just 50%

10:22

. But number one answer was they are a drain

10:24

on economic resources . So

10:27

I need to care sacrificially and

10:29

open up my wallet and be a part

10:31

of the solution , and yet I

10:33

feel like the number of immigrants is draining

10:35

my wallet . And so there's that tension there

10:37

of how do

10:39

we believe in law and order

10:42

and yet somehow care

10:44

for those who don't have documents

10:46

there . The analogy

10:48

for many of us is like if

10:51

we park legally somewhere and

10:53

we feed the meter and it expires

10:55

. Many of the undocumented immigrants were documented

10:58

at one time but it expired and

11:00

they don't have a path to get back

11:02

to legal citizenship not

11:06

citizenship but legal status today and

11:08

so there's that tension on the legal

11:11

side . There's a tension on the economic side that

11:13

we definitely feel .

11:16

How . I don't know if you have a measure of this from

11:18

from the data you collected

11:20

, but how well versed

11:23

do you think

11:25

respondents to your study are

11:27

in all of the complexities

11:29

of immigration law and how the immigration

11:32

system works ? And I'm asking that question because

11:34

it kind of points to where are

11:36

evangelical Christians learning

11:38

about immigration ? We never talked about this

11:40

at church when I was growing up , so

11:43

I'm curious is it something that's talked about at

11:45

church now , or are they getting

11:47

most of their information through the news or politicians

11:50

? Was there anything in the study that

11:52

could kind of point to answers to

11:54

those questions ?

11:55

Yeah , at most

11:57

complicated issues we all tend to simplify

11:59

, but we did ask them where

12:01

you know who's influencing their thinking , and

12:04

we asked for the top three . Influencers

12:06

and friends and family are top

12:08

of the list , and the

12:11

Bible actually comes in as the second

12:13

most frequently mentioned , and

12:16

then immigrants that they've observed would

12:19

be the third Interesting . So

12:21

media does make the list at number four

12:23

. Politicians are

12:26

further down the list , so you

12:28

think that they're just following the candidate . They support

12:30

whatever they're saying , and just 28%

12:33

mentioned that the

12:36

Bible comes in quite a bit higher on the list

12:38

than their local church . 22%

12:40

mentioned their local church as being influential in

12:42

their thinking . 31%

12:45

, though , in another question , did say

12:48

that their church had encouraged

12:50

their congregation to reach

12:52

out to immigrants in their community evangelistically

12:55

.

12:56

Yeah , Is there ? Another

12:58

data point that I

13:00

don't know if you found or asked about

13:02

is how much personal interaction

13:05

do respondents have with immigrants

13:08

in their everyday lives in

13:10

their communities ?

13:12

We didn't capture just kind of a volume of everyday

13:14

interactions but a couple of questions

13:16

kind of point to some

13:19

experience they have . One is 19%

13:21

of evangelicals are either a first

13:24

or second generation immigrant themselves . So

13:27

either they were born outside the United States

13:29

or one or both of their parents were born outside

13:31

the United States . So that's a lot of experience

13:34

for , again , a pretty sizable

13:36

minority of evangelicals , and

13:39

half of them said that their church has

13:41

at least some first-generation

13:44

immigrants , so there's at least somebody in their church

13:46

that , hey , I know their story , I

13:49

know that they weren't born here and I

13:51

can relate to at least their story , even though

13:53

it may not be representative of everything

13:55

we're hearing about . Go ahead

13:58

.

14:07

I was going to say , so that 77% who said that immigrants are a drain on the

14:09

economy of the United States . It seems like a fairly big . You know , here's the economy

14:11

. That's a big thing , right . I wonder

14:14

how many of those people would also say that

14:16

immigration has harmed

14:18

them economically , on a personal

14:20

level , or on a family or community level

14:23

.

14:24

So 50% are saying they're

14:26

a drain on resources and

14:28

even though many of them

14:30

are going to be among those who have

14:33

personal experiences with immigration

14:35

and it's close to them , either in their own

14:37

family or somebody they know and

14:42

some of that is the disconnect

14:44

between you

14:47

know legal paths toward immigration

14:49

and the influx we

14:51

saw , especially literally the month

14:53

before this survey . We were

14:55

setting records in December

14:57

of the number of border

14:59

crossings and so , as

15:01

the media was covering that , I mean sometimes you

15:03

can get cynical and think the media is trying to create

15:06

a story , and in that case

15:08

, no , it was a real story . The numbers were

15:10

there that this was unprecedented , it had not happened before in that volume . No , it was a real story . The numbers were there that this was unprecedented

15:12

, it had not happened before in that volume . So

15:14

when we're asking about the number of immigrants

15:16

, they're like wow , even

15:18

though we're a nation that really

15:21

has absorbed huge numbers

15:23

of immigrants throughout our history

15:25

we're good at that this

15:27

is actually a level we probably can't sustain

15:30

.

15:30

I think was the message from people , and so in the other questions we see that this is actually a level we probably can't sustain . I think was the message from

15:32

people .

15:32

And so in the other questions we see that , you

15:35

know , especially as Christians we should be caring

15:37

. You know , especially for refugees

15:39

and you mentioned people may not always

15:41

know what refugee means , but you know that's

15:44

somebody that's enduring persecution

15:46

. It's not just somebody who's , you

15:48

know , financially not in a good spot . Yes

15:51

, there are definitely people who come to our border who

15:53

want an opportunity financially

15:55

. But a refugee if you

15:58

qualify as a refugee , you

16:00

know that's somebody who's being religiously

16:02

persecuted , politically

16:08

persecuted , or not just a war in their country , but it's a genocide . You know , it's those kinds of things

16:10

that qualify you as a refugee . A war in their country , but it's a genocide

16:12

, it's those kinds of things that qualify you as a refugee . And so for

16:14

us to be willing to care sacrificially for those

16:17

that are in really dire straits

16:19

, like that , is something that people

16:21

have . But there's also

16:23

the tension of how much of this can we afford

16:25

?

16:26

Right . So was there

16:28

anything in the report that surprised you ?

16:31

It really goes back to the question on

16:33

influences . The Bible

16:35

is really

16:38

an influence that I

16:40

mentioned the top three

16:42

, but if we , if we go to which

16:44

one did they pick first ? The Bible

16:46

is actually at the top of that list . Yeah , so

16:49

26 percent picked the Bible as

16:51

the top and

16:55

that has inched up as we've done these surveys through the years . It started out at

16:57

12% and

17:01

so that doesn't happen very often . We've

17:04

asked about a few other social issues and

17:06

the Bible and the church tends to be way

17:08

down the list . People are

17:10

very much influenced by their family and friends

17:12

, the conversations they grew up with . That's

17:15

their perspective on our society and

17:18

, you know , on immigration . I mean

17:20

, the Bible talks about it very directly numerous

17:23

times . It's close to God's heart and

17:27

it's still just a quarter , but's

17:29

the largest one group pointing

17:33

to an influence .

17:35

Well , Scott McConnell is Executive Director of

17:37

LifeWay Research in Nashville , Tennessee . In

17:40

the show notes we'll post a link to their latest

17:42

study on evangelical Christian attitudes

17:44

on immigration in the United States . It's

17:46

very interesting . Go check it out . And , Scott

17:48

, thank you for bringing the data and telling

17:51

us what it might mean . Thank you very much

17:53

. Pleasure to have you .

18:14

There's a three-month state of emergency

18:17

right now in Turkey , so

18:19

relief just around the clock , from

18:25

what I hear it's a tiring , exhausting pace .

18:26

They're keeping up . What kinds of things are they doing right

18:28

now ?

18:31

What seems to be the most urgent task at hand for them . Well , from what I hear from my sources so

18:33

I'm talking to people at the First Hope

18:35

Association , which is a faith-based

18:38

institution in Turkey that does first

18:40

responding and aid , and

18:42

then the entire Bible Church the

18:45

main needs that they have at the moment are

18:47

hygiene-related or shelter .

18:49

That's a clip of the Christian Chronicles' Audrey

18:51

Jackson . Way back in March 2023

18:54

. In episode nine of this show , she

18:56

was reporting on the aftermath of the 7.8

18:58

Richter earthquake that devastated northern

19:01

Syria and Turkey on February

19:03

6 , 2023 . What we know

19:05

now , one year later , is that 50,000

19:07

people died in that earthquake

19:10

and its aftershocks , and hundreds

19:12

of thousands of people are still homeless

19:14

. It's no wonder the earthquake toppled 850,000

19:18

buildings . Adding to the humanitarian

19:21

crisis is the fact that about 1.8

19:23

million refugees of the Syrian Civil

19:25

War were staying in the region where

19:28

the earthquake did the most damage . Well

19:30

, a year ago . Staying in the region where the earthquake

19:32

did the most damage . Well , a year ago , audrey reported on the courageous and heroic efforts

19:34

by Christians and congregations to help each other

19:36

and help their neighbors in Turkey . She recently

19:39

spent a few days on the ground in Turkey

19:41

following up with those brothers and sisters

19:43

to see how they are doing now and

19:45

what they still might need . She's back and

19:47

, I think , just about over her jet lag . Audrey

19:49

, welcome home .

19:50

Thank you , it's good to be back .

19:53

All right . So , Audrey , you

19:55

didn't go to Turkey right

19:57

after the earthquakes struck a year ago

19:59

, did you ? I don't remember .

20:00

No , I didn't .

20:01

Okay , but you did interview a lot of people

20:03

over in Turkey as they tried to recover

20:06

from the disaster and help

20:08

a lot of their neighbors too . So did

20:10

you go back and meet some of those people in person

20:12

this time when you were actually in the country

20:14

, and what did they tell you about how

20:16

things have progressed from a year ago ?

20:19

Yeah , I did . I actually except for one

20:21

person . I got to meet just about everyone I spoke

20:23

to when the earthquakes

20:25

initially caused devastation

20:27

in Turkey and it was really

20:29

interesting following up for the first time

20:31

in person , even though we

20:34

had built a rapport a year earlier and

20:36

I'd kind of followed up with them in the months

20:38

after , just checking in making sure there

20:40

hadn't been any major developments and seeing

20:42

how the church was doing then . So it was

20:44

good to catch up on the ground in person and

20:46

actually get to see both

20:48

the people face-to-face and the locations

20:50

and actually get to see both the people face-to-face

20:52

and the locations .

20:53

Yeah , so how have things progressed for

20:55

them ? At the time that we interviewed you

20:57

a little over a year ago , they're

20:59

very much in triage mode . It

21:05

was just from minute to minute , trying to figure out who needed what and trying to keep people alive . So , a year

21:07

later , where do things stand with

21:10

them ?

21:10

Right , people alive . So a year later

21:12

, where do things stand with them , right

21:17

? So I think my original article focused a lot on the Antalya Evangelical Church and the work

21:19

they were doing and they ended up taking in 25 people total because they

21:21

actually had dorms already built into their church

21:24

and they were able to house people . A

21:26

lot of those people have since returned

21:28

to the affected regions

21:31

that they were displaced from , because that's

21:33

home for them and that's where they want to be . But

21:35

the church has kept up with a lot of those connections

21:37

. So even some of the ministers

21:40

that I was with were going to visit , the following

21:42

week after I left , some of the people that they had

21:44

housed during that time . They were

21:46

flying over to the different parts of Turkey to see

21:48

them and follow up on those connections . And

21:51

right now I think there's still a lot of recovery

21:54

. They've

21:59

turned less so immediate needs and they're focused more on mental health . So they talked a lot about

22:01

how a lot of the ministers and even members of the church are taking

22:03

part in seminars about trauma

22:06

and mental health and how to be a

22:08

counselor and a support system

22:10

, and mental health . And how to be a

22:12

counselor and a support system . Yeah , because

22:15

there's a stigma around mental health in Turkey and a lot of times it's

22:17

encouraged just to be strong and have faith and

22:20

not show pain and weakness , and

22:22

so they're trying to encourage a more

22:24

gentle and accepting area for

22:26

people , and how's that going ? I

22:29

think it's going pretty well . They talked a lot about how

22:31

, while they were housing people , every

22:33

evening was almost like a therapy group . People

22:35

would come out of their rooms and sit around

22:38

and share stories of things they'd lost

22:40

, people they'd lost things

22:42

they'd heard and seen , and you

22:44

know they just talked about . It was kind of like this weeping

22:46

wailing fest almost every

22:48

evening of people processing

22:51

their shared trauma together and the minister's

22:53

trying to support them the best they could .

22:55

Yeah , one of the things I remember from when we talked about

22:58

this last year is Turkey

23:01

is a nation of 99%

23:03

Muslims . I mean so 99%

23:05

, I think , of everybody who lives there is Muslim

23:08

, and one of the silver linings that you identified a

23:10

year ago for the church there was

23:12

that this would give them an opportunity to love

23:14

their neighbors and reach out to their neighbors and

23:16

be witnesses for Christ

23:18

. How has this changed

23:20

the relationship between the Christians

23:23

there in Turkey and

23:25

their Muslim neighbors ? Do

23:27

they feel like they've made

23:30

some progress there ?

23:32

One of the things I heard from multiple people

23:34

while I was there was this has helped

23:36

the reputation of the church , because

23:39

a lot of times Christians are very

23:41

much looked at as kind of outside agents

23:43

, whether they're Turkish Christians or

23:45

they are foreigners who have come in , but

23:48

they're seen almost as agents of Western

23:50

civilization , and

23:56

so people don't tend to want to listen to them or interact with them . They find them , you know

23:58

, scary . There's tons of conspiracy theories about why they're there and what

24:00

they're trying to do . But giving

24:03

aid really kind of opened the door for

24:05

them to improve on that

24:07

reputation and show that they really are just

24:09

people of faith who are trying to

24:11

help their neighbors and reach out . And

24:14

it was really interesting talking to one

24:16

of the ministers in Antalya because he

24:18

talked about how , since it was Eastern

24:20

Turkey that was mostly devastated by the earthquake

24:23

, that's a place that has been historically

24:25

not very open to the gospel , and

24:28

this opened doors that they had never had before

24:30

, because they were going into areas and handing

24:33

out relief items and so they were able to naturally

24:35

strike up conversations that they wouldn't

24:37

have been able to have otherwise .

24:40

So , a year ago , you saw

24:42

pictures of the destruction and

24:45

you posted those in your story . I don't remember

24:47

where you got them , but you didn't take them yourself . This time

24:49

, though , you took the photograph , so you were there

24:51

and you saw with your own eyes

24:54

the aftermath of this

24:56

earthquake . Can you describe , can

24:59

you attempt to describe , what

25:01

it was like for you to be there ?

25:04

I could try Go

25:07

for it . I think

25:09

it was interesting . Driving in

25:11

Turkey is a lot more mountainous

25:13

than I expected

25:16

it to be , and so when you're driving in

25:18

, specifically to Antakya , which

25:20

was one of the cities most devastated , 80%

25:23

of their structures are deemed unsound and either

25:25

were destroyed or are slated for demolishment

25:27

. When

25:29

you're driving in , you're coming over

25:31

these mountains , into this giant valley

25:33

, and everything seems really

25:35

normal until you start getting into the

25:37

city limits and then you start noticing

25:40

that there

25:42

is cracks . Do

25:45

I need to hush him ?

25:47

No , we love it when we have dogs on the show okay

25:49

, um , I

25:52

started noticing .

25:53

You know you pass these two-story

25:55

structures when you're starting to come into town and

25:58

you're noticing there there are cracks . You're seeing some

26:00

of the earthquake damage , but then you get

26:02

into kind of the city center where the residential

26:04

areas would have been . So you have

26:06

more high rises , seven , eight

26:08

stories , and it's just

26:10

open fields because those buildings are

26:12

gone and they're either torn down

26:14

in piles or

26:16

they're standing there with cracks running

26:18

up the side of them .

26:20

Wow .

26:20

Or it's just a scraped

26:23

field of mud and concrete

26:25

that you can walk across , but

26:27

there aren't roads and neighborhoods anymore

26:29

, because they've just been completely

26:31

brought down .

26:32

Are there people still living there or

26:35

is it a ghost town ?

26:36

Not in those areas . So the people are essentially

26:39

living around the city limits now

26:41

and there are container housings

26:43

, temporary communities . So First Chope Association

26:46

a lot of what they've pivoted to

26:48

is putting up temporary container housing

26:50

, and then there are tent camps and

26:53

kind of . The difference between the two are

26:56

Turkish citizens

26:58

and legal refugees

27:00

can live in the temporary container housing

27:03

. They can qualify Immigrants

27:06

from , say , syria , refugees who

27:08

are escaping the war , who came across the border illegally

27:11

because it's very close to the border of Syria

27:13

, they don't qualify for that aid .

27:18

So they have had to move into tent camps . Now is Antioch . Is that the

27:20

ancient biblical city of Antioch ?

27:23

It is .

27:24

Okay , so

27:27

there's a connection to the Bible there , and I think I read somewhere that the

27:29

normal population of Antakya is

27:31

something like I don't know 1.7 million

27:34

, and there are like maybe

27:36

250,000 people left in

27:39

the city because of how heavily destroyed

27:41

it was . Is that ? That's what I read

27:43

? Is that ? Was that your experience on the ground ?

27:47

I think it would be hard to equate numbers just

27:49

going from community to community

27:51

. I'm not sure if that's how it is . I know a lot

27:53

of people initially left

27:55

and were displaced into other

27:57

cities and provinces but

27:59

from what I've heard a lot of them are trying to come back

28:01

, trying to come home or what is left of

28:03

home in these container homes and temporary

28:06

housing .

28:10

So what left the deepest ?

28:11

impression on you from your trip over there . I think it's always just the

28:13

people that get to me the hospitality

28:15

. So

28:23

in the tent camps one of the Syrian refugees welcomed us into his family's tent , even though we

28:25

were just foreigners , strangers , there to distribute

28:28

aid . He wanted to welcome us into his home

28:30

. And then in the container housing

28:32

there was a woman who made

28:35

us all tea . We were there for 10 minutes but

28:37

she made sure we all had a steaming hot cup

28:39

of tea and tried to talk to us the best she could

28:41

through a translator .

28:43

Wow . So a year ago

28:45

we were able to post some ways

28:48

for people to help if they wanted to come

28:50

alongside their brothers and sisters

28:52

and neighbors there in Turkey and the

28:55

Syrian refugees that are living there

28:57

as well . How

29:00

can people help now if they want to ?

29:02

So First Hope Association

29:04

, it's a faith-based organization

29:06

that's a nonprofit in Turkey

29:09

. They're providing a lot of the container homes

29:11

and they're still building more for people who are

29:13

displaced , and they're supported by One

29:15

Kingdom which

29:20

is a ministry of White's .

29:21

Ferry Road Church of Christ and they're all accepting donations at this time . We

29:23

will post links to those in the show notes . Audrey Jackson

29:25

of the Christian Chronicle is all in on

29:27

reporting the news from Christians around the world

29:29

, even Christians in a disaster zone

29:31

. Many thanks to her for going to Turkey to bring you back

29:34

a report from your brothers and sisters there . If God

29:36

moves you , please do what you can to

29:38

come alongside them . Click on one

29:40

of those links that we post in the show notes and

29:42

we'll also have a link to Audrey's newest

29:44

story and all those photos that she took from Turkey

29:47

. Audrey , thanks for being here today .

29:48

Thanks for having me .

30:35

Our final guests today gave college basketball

30:37

fans one of the best endings to a game that they'll

30:39

ever see in their lives . And it wasn't just any game

30:41

. It was the National Association

30:44

of Intercollegiate Athletics Men's

30:46

Basketball National Championship game

30:48

on March 26 in Kansas

30:50

City , missouri . And

30:52

here is how

30:54

it went down . After grinding through a 16-team

30:57

tournament to get to the national title game , our

30:59

guests were underdogs to Langston

31:01

University , which lost only two

31:04

games in its entire 37-game

31:06

season . Our guests trailed

31:08

by as many as 12 points in

31:10

the second half and , with less than

31:13

a minute to play , they were still down by six

31:15

points . Now , listeners , I'm

31:17

not going to . After

31:20

grinding through a 16-team tournament

31:22

to get to the national title game , our guests

31:24

were big underdogs to Langston

31:26

University , which lost only two

31:29

games in its entire 37-game

31:31

season . Our guests trailed

31:33

by as many as 12 points in the second

31:35

half and less than a minute to play

31:37

. After

31:39

grinding through a 16-team tournament

31:42

to get to the national title game , our guests

31:44

were underdogs to Langston University

31:46

, which lost only two games in

31:49

its entire 37-game season , including

31:51

conference and national tournaments . After

31:54

grinding through a 16-team tournament

31:56

to get to the national title game , our guests

31:58

were underdogs to Langston University

32:01

, which lost only two games

32:03

in its entire 37-game season

32:05

. Our guests trailed by as many

32:07

as 12 points in the second

32:09

half and with less than a minute to play

32:11

, they were still down by six points . Now , listener

32:14

, I'm not going to hide the truth from you . My wife

32:16

knows that when my team is down by

32:18

that many points , with that little

32:20

time left in the game , I've got to leave the

32:23

room and take a walk outside because I can't take

32:25

it . But our guests could not

32:27

leave because they were in the game

32:29

and they had to play it out . Could

32:32

not leave because they were in the game and they had to play it out . And they rose to the occasion . They

32:34

played harder than they played in all 36 games that came

32:36

before this one . Using a smothering

32:38

full court defense and turning up the hustle , they

32:40

scored 10 unanswered points . To come

32:43

back and shock the world for the win

32:45

, they brought home to their school its first

32:47

men's intercollegiate national

32:49

championship in its 116-year

32:52

history . They are the Lions

32:54

of Freed Hardeman University , a school with deep

32:57

roots and strong ties in the Church

32:59

of Christ located in Henderson , tennessee

33:01

, and they are NAIA

33:03

National Championship . They

33:06

are the Lions of Freed Hardeman University

33:09

, a school with deep roots and strong

33:11

ties in the Church of Christ , located

33:13

in Henderson , tennessee , and they are NAIA

33:16

National Champions . Today we have with us

33:18

Coach Drew Stutz , who also won NAIA

33:21

Coach of the Year , and team captains sophomore

33:24

Peyton Law and junior Geraldo Lane , and

33:26

they're joined by junior Riley McLaren . They're

33:35

joined by junior Riley McLaren . No-transcript

33:39

. They are the Lions of Freed

33:41

Hardeman University in Henderson , tennessee . It's

33:44

a school with deep roots and strong ties

33:46

in the Church of Christ , and the Lions

33:48

are NAIA . They

33:51

are the Lions of Freed Hardeman University

33:54

, a school with deep roots and strong

33:56

ties in the Church of Christ , and

33:58

they are NAIA National Champions

34:01

. Today we have with us Coach Drew Stutz , who

34:03

also won NAIA coach of the year , and

34:05

team captains sophomore Peyton Law and

34:07

junior Geraldo Lang , and they're joined by junior

34:09

Riley McLaren . Try

34:12

again . They are the Lions

34:14

of Freed Hardeman University , a school with deep

34:16

roots . They are the Lions

34:19

of Freed Hardeman University in Henderson

34:21

, tennessee . It's a school with deep roots and

34:23

strong ties in the Church of Christ

34:25

, and they are NAIA

34:27

National Champions . Today we have with

34:29

us Coach Drew Stutz , who also won NAIA

34:32

Coach of the Year , and team captains

34:34

sophomore Peyton Law and junior Geraldo

34:36

Lane , and they're joined by junior Riley

34:38

McLaren . Congratulations on

34:40

winning it all , thank you . We appreciate

34:43

you having us All right . So

34:45

, as we're recording this , it's been a little over

34:47

two weeks now since that magical night in

34:49

Kansas City . What feelings and memories seem

34:52

to be the ones that are sticking with you ?

34:55

Well , the first thing that comes to mind

34:57

is when Peyton dribbled

35:00

the ball out and the confetti

35:02

went off and everything , the

35:08

feeling right there was the best feeling ever and I've never experienced

35:11

anything close to that level

35:13

of excitement , so that was

35:15

just unmatched .

35:17

What did you do , Geraldo ? Do you remember what you

35:19

were doing when the confetti started to come down and

35:21

the clock expired ?

35:23

It was a lot of running , jumping and

35:26

screaming .

35:27

Right on , just looking back at the

35:29

photos and all the people that were there . We had probably

35:32

hundreds of people from Henderson

35:34

travel and that was really cool just because

35:36

of just the location we're

35:38

at and us being what five and a half hours away

35:41

, or probably more than that seven or eight and just

35:43

having them support and having our families there

35:45

to enjoy that moment with

35:47

us was huge and it also gave us a huge

35:49

advantage playing as well . Having

35:51

those people behind our bench , just looking back and knowing

35:54

that we had a really good support system

35:56

through that and then just having fun with

35:58

our families all week too , was really cool .

36:01

I would say just that whole week down

36:03

there . You know it was a lot of fun with the

36:05

guys , not even just on the court , but

36:07

just have that experience of knowing

36:09

that we're playing for that big of a game

36:12

.

36:12

Uh , it was amazing to do that with great

36:14

guys had any of you ever played

36:17

in high school , junior high

36:19

college anywhere else ? Had any of you ever played

36:21

in a championship game before ?

36:24

uh , I played in a football state

36:26

championship game okay and I

36:29

lost .

36:30

So what does it feel like ? What does it feel like

36:32

then , to be in a championship

36:34

game ? Not just any championship game , but the

36:36

national championship game ?

36:39

uh , I feel like it's . You

36:42

know , it's kind of unreal because as

36:44

a little kid growing up playing

36:46

sports , you always dream of being

36:48

a national champion of wherever you go

36:50

, whatever team you want to play for . That's every

36:52

team's goal and to know that you're

36:55

a player on that team . Playing

36:57

for a national championship is

36:59

a dream come true .

37:01

Every team talks about winning

37:03

a national championship , being a national champion

37:05

, but how often does that

37:07

really happen ? I mean , coach

37:10

says you know , going into

37:12

those big games it was like how many people

37:14

do you personally know that's

37:16

a national champion ? And we all

37:18

just kind of looked at each other and was like I don't

37:20

think we know anybody . So

37:23

it feels good just

37:26

winning that with people who I

37:28

consider family .

37:29

You know somebody now , don't you ? You ? Know

37:31

a lot of people now I know a lot of people now Including

37:35

the man in the mirror .

37:38

Obviously , winning the national championship is just an incredible

37:40

experience all the way around

37:42

. It's one of those things , like they said

37:44

, you hope and you dream of , but I

37:47

think really , you know the fashion in

37:49

which we won the game was really exciting

37:51

. We came from behind with less than a minute to go

37:53

to win the game , and

37:55

so you know how it happened was a lot of fun

37:58

, but probably even more so who we

38:00

did it with . Even more so

38:02

who we did it with . You know this group of guys

38:04

it's easy to find talent , but it's not

38:06

easy to find talent that are perfect fits

38:08

together , and

38:11

I feel like over the last three or four years , we've done a great job of identifying , you

38:14

know , a certain type of person , not just

38:16

a certain type of player , and , just like Geraldo

38:18

just said , I mean this group

38:20

was truly a family . It wasn't just a bunch

38:23

of basketball players . You know , maybe as they

38:25

came in they thought they were just going

38:27

to be a bunch of basketball players playing ball together

38:29

, but the friendships

38:31

and doing it with the quality people that we've done

38:33

it with , I really think that's

38:35

what makes it special . I know winning is special

38:38

, but to do it with guys that I

38:40

plan on being friends with the rest of my life and

38:42

for those guys to experience it just

38:45

an unbelievable experience .

38:47

I've got a question for my own curiosity

38:49

. I didn't plan on asking this , but

38:51

I was never an athlete , and so

38:54

when you play in a championship game , like

38:56

you all did , I've heard athletes say

38:58

we're treating it like any other game . Right

39:00

, but when you step out on that court , you

39:02

know to warm up and get ready to actually

39:05

play the game . Does it feel different

39:07

? Or are you able to , you

39:10

know , to make it just about playing another game

39:12

? I mean , what does it feel like as you're getting

39:14

ready to play for that championship ?

39:16

I think from a coaching standpoint . You know , I

39:18

tried to be sure those guys

39:20

just stay true to who they were . I

39:22

think a lot of times you can go into

39:24

that game and sometimes , as

39:26

a fan , you're a little more nervous than when

39:29

you're a coach or a player , you know , and maybe

39:31

leading up to the game there might be a little bit

39:33

more nerves and those sorts of thoughts . But honestly

39:36

, once those first two minutes of the game get rolling

39:39

, you're just in the mode of just playing and

39:41

competing . I

39:44

don't think you know . A lot of people have asked what you know , what's going through your head the

39:46

last minute of the game , you know , and

39:48

and really it's just winning

39:50

the next play and it's just doing the things that you've

39:52

done all year . And I know that may sound cliche

39:55

and that may sound um , it's

39:57

not a boring answer , but it's .

39:58

It's just the truth I want to ask you about this

40:01

. Uh , coach , I think in some of the interviews that

40:03

you gave after the game you talked about being

40:05

tough , and

40:07

I think I heard you say something like the toughest

40:09

team would win the title game

40:11

. And you all proved to be the toughest team

40:13

, but you didn't just turn that toughness on

40:15

in the final minute of the season . You had to

40:18

plant that seed somewhere way

40:20

back early in the season and then cultivate

40:22

it all season long . So if you look

40:24

back on the season maybe going all the way back

40:26

to training camp or whatever can

40:34

you pinpoint some specific moments where you think you planted those seeds of toughness and cultivated

40:36

them so that you were ready when that moment came in the title game ? A

40:39

?

40:39

lot of preparation . A lot of time has

40:41

went into being prepared for

40:43

those moments and honestly , I

40:45

would go all the way back to maybe three years

40:47

ago . We lost in the conference

40:50

tournament to Georgetown . We've

40:53

also lost to Thomas Moore a year before

40:55

that in the conference tournament and I remember

40:57

, you know , at that moment , thinking

40:59

through , you know what are the things we've

41:01

got to do to get to the next step and

41:04

be a better team . You know , I think we've been talented

41:06

in the past but I don't think we've had the level of

41:08

toughness that this team has . And

41:11

you know , it's one of those things

41:13

where you hold these guys accountable

41:15

in their day-to-day approach to weightlifting

41:18

or , you know , skill work or team

41:20

practices and obviously the preseason

41:23

. There's some things that we do where we really challenge

41:25

them mentally and physically and

41:27

push them way beyond what

41:29

they think their body might be capable of

41:31

. And I think those things

41:34

, along with accountability , you know

41:36

, I think right now in athletics

41:38

there's not

41:41

a lot of accountability . At times there's

41:43

a lot of telling kids what they want to hear so

41:45

you can attract the right talent and keep guys

41:47

around . But I think accountability

41:49

is where you develop

41:51

toughness , holding people accountable

41:53

to the standards that they've

41:56

set and that you've set for your program . I

41:58

think when you're consistently doing that , it builds

42:00

a level of toughness that a lot of teams don't have right

42:03

now .

42:03

It first started whenever we first got here on campus

42:06

. We have a week

42:08

dedicated and it's called Tough Week

42:10

. Every day is a different

42:12

type of challenge for you

42:14

. You got sprints , hill sprints

42:16

, weightlifting , all different kinds

42:18

of stuff and that really where it

42:20

starts out , and going through

42:22

that with the guys and holding each other accountable

42:25

, like coach said . You know it's different from

42:27

the coach holding you accountable , but

42:29

whenever the players are holding each other accountable

42:31

, that's how you know you've created a

42:34

bond with each other and you're

42:36

wanting to win I think it also

42:38

brings us closer together as a team

42:40

, because we're all doing and going

42:42

through the same thing .

42:44

I mean , if I'm struggling , I'm

42:46

pretty sure Peyton and Riley are struggling as well

42:48

, and so it kind of just brings you together . And

42:52

, yes , we hold each other accountable , but we also pick each other up as well

42:54

to help each other through those tough times

42:56

, and we think that also is something that

42:58

translates into the games . When

43:01

somebody is struggling .

43:02

I think at times our practices are tougher than games

43:04

. Wow , I think

43:06

when you have that you

43:09

know , from your coaches putting you through those challenges

43:11

during practice and testing you in practice , you

43:14

get in a game situation and it

43:16

comes natural . You know you have adversities in the game

43:18

, but you've been testing in practice , so

43:20

you're training your mind and your body to

43:23

respond to those challenges in practice

43:25

and you get the game and it just flows

43:27

, you know . So I think being in a position

43:29

that our coaches put us in through practice it

43:31

allows us to be really , really tough

43:33

on the court and , like coach said , the

43:35

tougher team wins and we proved

43:38

that all year .

43:39

What was the ? What was the lowest point of your season

43:41

? You had a winning season . It was a good year , but I

43:44

figure any championship team

43:46

has to hit a point where they

43:48

have to push through a

43:50

challenge or the doldrums or

43:52

something like that the drudgery of just

43:54

practicing day in and day out . What would

43:56

you say was the toughest point or

43:58

the hardest point of the season for

44:00

y'all ?

44:01

Yeah , I think like collectively , as a team

44:03

, I can't think of one thing really and

44:06

that's a product of all of us being together

44:08

, like we didn't allow one thing to really

44:10

hold us back because we had

44:12

19 other guys there

44:14

for us and me personally , I had bad

44:16

problems in the beginning of the year

44:18

. So I feel like we have guys that can

44:20

relate to that question more personally than as

44:23

a team , but for me I

44:25

have bad problems and that was a challenge

44:28

in itself , but because

44:30

of the group of guys that we have around

44:32

us , it didn't hinder

44:34

me from being an asset

44:37

in some way of the team .

44:38

When we first started practice this year

44:40

we had quite a few new

44:42

players on our team . We had lost

44:44

a group of guys six , seven

44:47

seniors off last year's team and

44:49

I think you know the guys

44:51

that were returners knew kind of what the

44:53

standard was as far as what practice

44:56

and day-to-day things look like . And

44:58

those first two or three weeks of practice were

45:00

a struggle , trying to get new guys

45:02

caught up to speed and

45:08

there was kind of a standard that the returners had and the standard of the new guys

45:10

and trying to bridge that gap and get those guys up to speed . I

45:13

think for a lot of our guys that was a challenge because

45:15

they were ready to take off and go 110%

45:18

but we had to kind of lead those guys

45:20

up to where we needed to go . So

45:22

just thinking back that was probably the toughest part

45:24

was just getting the wheels turning

45:26

like we needed them to .

45:31

Was there a point during the season where you really felt like the team just became

45:33

cohesive ? You brought in a lot of new people

45:36

that had to learn the program and they had to get

45:38

to know you . Is there a point

45:40

where you're like , yeah , we're together now ?

45:44

I don't think so , honestly . I would love

45:46

to point to a certain moment and say , yeah , but I

45:49

mean we consistently play ten guys

45:51

and throughout the course of the year different guys

45:53

stepped up at different times . We had nine

45:55

different leading scorers out of

45:57

those ten guys throughout the year , and

46:00

even in the national tournament game we had

46:02

five different leading scorers in six games

46:04

, and so I think guys were just ready

46:06

for their moment . There wasn't really a peak

46:08

. Like you know , man , we're , we're

46:10

firing on all cylinders . You know every

46:13

single person . Guys were just ready for

46:15

the moment and their opportunity and did a good

46:17

job just playing together throughout the course of the year .

46:20

Let me ask you this uh , coach you you mentioned

46:22

something about accountability a moment ago

46:24

, and everybody knows college sports

46:26

is changing a lot these days , and so

46:29

if you were just about winning and nothing else

46:31

, it'd be hard enough to recruit really

46:34

talented basketball players who have a Christian

46:36

orientation and then keeping them with your program

46:38

. Does

46:48

that add a couple of extra layers of challenge

46:51

for you as a basketball coach ? To find

46:53

those players , get them on your

46:55

team and then beat

46:57

the teams that are really all about winning

46:59

? You know , forget about character and accountability

47:02

, let's just win . How do you challenge

47:05

.

47:05

I think sometimes people get the talent ahead of

47:07

the character and people

47:09

. People are more drawn to those guys that have

47:11

had success on the floor

47:13

and I think there's a certain

47:16

steps that you have to take to

47:18

become a champion . You know you can have a lot of

47:20

success with a lot of talented

47:22

guys , but to build a consistent , winning

47:24

program you got to have guys that

47:26

want to be at your university

47:28

, that want

47:31

to be part of a program that has the standards

47:33

and accountability and the toughness that we set

47:35

. And so sometimes , you

47:37

know , I think some people can look at that and

47:39

say , man , that's a , that's a obstacle

47:42

or that's a challenge , and in some ways it would

47:44

be for the wrong coach or the wrong program

47:46

. But I think for us it really just

47:48

complements what we're all about to begin with

47:50

, and that's why I feel

47:53

like I'm a good fit for Freed Harbin University

47:55

and we've had the success that we've had here , because

47:58

those are the things that really matter to

48:00

me . I think you try to figure out who

48:03

first . You know , establish what

48:05

type of person you're looking for . Then

48:07

you can figure out the what as time

48:09

goes on . But I know , if you give me guys

48:12

that you know , have

48:14

some athletic basketball ability

48:16

but at the same time are high character guys

48:18

that are going to be great

48:20

teammates , that are going to be good students in the

48:22

classroom , that are going to be good representatives of

48:24

the university . I think if you put all those things

48:26

together you're destined for

48:28

success . And

48:30

you know it's up to me at that point to figure

48:33

out how to put those pieces together and

48:35

figure out how to win on the floor . But you

48:37

know one thing I know I need to be short

48:39

here , but one thing I'll say is you know we're trying to build

48:41

a program here , we're not trying to build a team , and

48:44

I think at the college level , a lot of times right

48:46

now , people are trying to put teams together in

48:49

individual years where , you

48:51

know , 90 plus percent of our team right

48:54

now have been program guys . Does that

48:56

? Guys that have come here , as

48:58

you know , high school seniors , and I've put in the

49:00

time and work and um

49:02

, you know it's kind of an old school way of going about

49:04

doing things right now , but it's been really good for

49:06

us . And I think guys like Riley

49:09

and Geraldo and Peyton those guys have come here

49:11

from high school and it's

49:13

meaningful , it's very

49:15

fulfilling to come here and put in that work

49:17

and grow with that certain group of guys and

49:19

to reach championship level

49:22

basketball . It's

49:24

different , but I think it separates us in

49:26

a good way .

49:27

And that trophy is proof that it's working . So last

49:29

question for y'all you know it's

49:31

a familiar sight to see athletes who win big

49:33

games , you know , point their fingers at the sky

49:36

and give glory to God , and

49:38

I think I read in a news story , coach , that you

49:41

were quoted as giving glory to God for your big

49:43

win . How do you all think that

49:45

something like winning a college basketball

49:47

championship glorifies God

49:49

?

49:56

Or maybe I should ask how do you hope that your win will

49:59

glorify God ? Well , I hope it's the way we do

50:01

it . We

50:04

try to do it the right way with , you know , surrounding ourselves with people that are like-minded

50:06

and are good people to start off , before you do anything , you don't have the right people

50:08

in place to do it and , coming

50:10

from a faith-based background family

50:13

, it was refreshing to come

50:15

into the program as a freshman and be

50:17

held accountable into a standard

50:19

at which you were at home and I

50:21

feel like that's rare to be a part

50:23

of a program in that way . And

50:25

it starts with Coach Studs just holding us to that standard

50:28

and honoring God and everything we do

50:30

and realizing that without

50:32

him , like we wouldn't be able to

50:34

have the talents to compete for a championship

50:37

.

50:37

I think it all starts with , you know

50:40

the school , the school

50:42

free army and the head coach , coach Studs . You know the school

50:44

, the school free army and the head coach , coach Stutz . You

50:46

know , just being able

50:48

to understand that God

50:51

is the source of everything that we have

50:53

and without him

50:55

we weren't able to do any of

50:57

this . And so , winning

50:59

that national championship , winning

51:02

that national championship , I

51:04

look at it as a way of him just I'm

51:07

not going to say rewarding us

51:09

because I mean we worked

51:11

for it , but of good things

51:14

happening to good people because we did

51:16

it the right way .

51:20

And that's just how I look at it . I would say all of us coming in

51:22

it starts as high

51:24

school senior . God had a

51:26

reason for us to all end up here

51:28

and for us all of us

51:31

to have that faith in us and

51:33

all work together . It

51:38

was . It was really great to do that with a group of guys . And one thing that kind of stood out

51:40

to a lot of other people was

51:43

whenever we were there in Kansas City we

51:45

had our own Sunday service

51:48

in the hotel . You know they

51:50

were saying , yeah , this national championship

51:52

is like the biggest thing right now

51:54

, but you wouldn't be here if

51:57

it wasn't for God . So all

51:59

of that goes to him .

52:01

When you accomplish something great like this , you

52:04

naturally think how and why

52:06

is this happening to me ? You know , like

52:08

, what have we done to earn

52:10

this ? What's different about us ? And I

52:12

don't think there really is anything

52:14

particularly different . You know , I've said

52:17

throughout the tournament I don't know that I'm the best

52:19

coach , I don't know that we have the best

52:21

talent , but because

52:23

of the school here and the

52:25

environment that they've cultivated and

52:28

that goes from professors to our

52:30

secretary here in the office , to our athletic

52:33

director , to our president , the way they lead

52:35

, the way that these guys are taught day

52:37

in and day out , from not just me

52:39

but so many people here on campus , this

52:42

is a special place and you know , we're

52:44

a God-centered university and

52:47

it's beautiful just to see

52:49

, like Riley said , us

52:51

doing things the right way and

52:53

for us to wind up on top . You know , it's

52:56

definitely a blessing and something that was not

52:59

done by ourselves .

53:01

Well . Congratulations again to Coach

53:03

Drew Stutz and three of his players here

53:05

, peyton Law , riley McLaren and Geraldo

53:07

Lane , as well as the entire Freed

53:09

Hardeman University men's basketball program

53:11

for capturing their school's first ever men's

53:14

national championship . It's been 116

53:17

years in the making and now your names are

53:19

etched in history . So congratulations to

53:21

you all . Thank you , we appreciate

53:23

you having us . It's been a pleasure . This

53:26

episode is now etched in history too

53:28

. We hope you enjoyed it . Thank you for listening to our

53:30

guests today and thank you to

53:32

our guests . Scott McConnell joined

53:34

us from Lifeway Research . The Christian

53:36

Chronicles own . Audrey Jackson shook off

53:38

her jet lag to report on her trip to Turkey

53:41

. And we heard from coach drew stutz

53:43

and three of his players , gerald

53:45

o'lain , peyton law and riley mclaren

53:47

from the 2024 naia

53:49

men's basketball national

53:51

champion . Freed hardeman university lions

53:54

. We pray that god blessed you

53:56

through what you heard today . If you received

53:58

that blessing and you want to pass it on , please

54:01

pray for this ministry and do us a favor

54:03

or two . Subscribe to this podcast

54:05

and then share it with a friend , recommend

54:08

and review it on whatever podcast

54:10

service you use , and send us your comments

54:12

, ideas and suggestions at podcast

54:14

, at christianchronicleorg , and

54:16

, if you feel fuller or richer because

54:19

of something you heard today . Please pay

54:21

it forward . Make a tax-deductible gift to

54:23

the Christian Chronicle . Just click on

54:25

the link in the show notes or go to christianchronicleorg

54:27

slash . Donate to make your

54:29

gift now . Until next time

54:31

, may grace and peace be

54:33

yours in abundance .

54:35

The Christian Chronicle podcast is a production

54:38

of the Christian Chronicle Incorporated , informing

54:40

and inspiring Church of Christ congregations

54:42

and members around the world since 1943

54:45

. The Christian Chronicle's associate editor

54:47

is Audrey Jackson , editor-in-chief

54:49

Bobby Ross Jr and president and

54:52

CEO Eric Triggistad . The

54:54

Christian Chronicle podcast is produced

54:56

, written , directed and hosted by BT

54:58

Irwin and is recorded , edited and

55:00

engineered by James Flanagan at Podcast

55:02

your Voice Studios in Southfield , michigan

55:05

, detroit , usa .