0:00

Blake, how far would you walk for white cheddar popcorn?

0:03

Toby, if I walk more than 10 steps, my Fitbit starts to freak out because it thinks my heart rate is pushing 150 Welcome to the church gear podcast where we pull that tech out of the booth and onto the stage to share the most outlandish stories and hidden wisdom from the tech trenches.

0:23

And now here are your hosts co host Blake Hodges, a man who is typically trying to avoid heart disease, but that's difficult when you can't run from it. And I'm here with my co host who has volunteered to walk on my behalf for me now, Toby Walters, I think you could literally run from heart disease. I think that's kind of the point. What I'm saying is if I run my heart will explode.

0:42

So I don't think it does work.

0:46

Oh, your poor heart. It does the work for normal humans for very little result.

0:53

I don't even ever sponsor that's a pretty good burn.

0:56

So last night, my wife, I won't say my wife dragged me because I love my wife. So I do whatever she wants, because she's so pretty. But she asked me to go to a benefit dinner.

1:08

Tonight. We're not fans, you know? We'll get there Blake, that's for sure. So she is part of this amazing organization that does ell, English, English language learners. So like refugees from other countries that moved to the United States, and they don't speak any English like nothing. They will come to this, you know, nonprofit ministry that our church helps support and my wife is one of the teachers so she'll help teach them English from the beginning.

1:35

I think your wife is great at that because she has to practice she gets to practice on you all the time. Like she's still trying to teach you English.

1:39

Like watch her mouth.

1:43

Alright, so it was hosted at Brentwood Baptist and a lot of our listeners are familiar with Brentwood Baptists. Like it's a big church and they do like modern services, but they're also just like, a little bit more traditional than you and I Blake, you got pews in there?

1:55

Yeah, but not anymore. Oh, the pews are gone. Yeah, they did their whole upgrade. Like they renovated the whole campus and now they have chairs. It's big time. I'm sure there was a lot of uproar.

2:06

I was just gonna say there must have been rioting in the pews. I mean, in the chairs.

2:11

I wonder if some of those pews are like still on campus as far as like, if you need your pew fix, you can go into you know, Hudson hall or whatever it is.

2:17

Well, actually, I think we bought them all to be there in the warehouse right now. No, we are not buying views. I've told you. So my wife said this is a little bit fancier event. You can't wear jeans. And so I luckily I own one pair of slacks. Because the last time my wife said we're doing something fancy and I didn't own slacks. I went to the mall that day and bought slacks.

2:40

So people think this is a bit this is not what is and what frustrated me most. And I reminded my wife of it every time there were three, like of the hosts onstage that were wearing jeans. And I was like they're on stage and jeans and I had to wear slacks. This was messed up, man. Yeah, this is outrageous. So one of the guests for the evening, he went through the program. He is from Kenya.

3:04

And he grew up in Nairobi, Kenya, and he and his wife came over five, six years ago. And so he said, growing up in Kenya, he kind of gave some of his story.

3:17

And it's a very different life for him. And so it was a very hard story to hear like his maker in those slacks little easier.

3:26

Yeah, my problem seemed a little bit smaller after hearing his story. So he's talking about his mom passed away. And then he went to live with his aunt, and his aunt became sick with HIV.

3:37

And so he said, I'm like, you know, 15 years old, trying to take care of my aunt who's dying of HIV and all my cousins, which were her children, just like left kind of abandoned her. And so he said, once a week, I would walk to the store to get groceries. And he said, round trip. It was a 27 mile walk. And Blake, I'm thinking of you walking like more than 10 steps for white cheddar popcorn. And so he's literally walking 27 miles, he can walk more miles than I can steps. Yes. So he said one time he was on his way back with his groceries. And so he'd have to walk 13 miles to the store. And then you have to walk 13 miles back and he said carrying groceries, he'd have groceries on his head. Like it's a very different lifestyle that he that he grew up with. And so he said this one night, he was walking back and he sodas around 9pm. And he said he just either heard it, or he sensed it that there was something behind him.

4:35

No. And so he turns around. It's a line isn't it? Close. It was a pack of hyenas. Even worse, he said there was more than a dozen hyenas following him. And so he didn't know what to do.

4:49

He should have told him to get back on the CityLine. Yes, exactly. What's the doofus one, Ed. Oh, don't tell me.

4:56

That's me, Toby. Well, we'll come back to that later. Add. So he said, obviously you can't outrun these hyenas. And so he said he felt the Spirit of the Lord just say, start singing the song, you know. And so he turned around and kept walking in his normal pace. singing, I know that my Redeemer lives. And like, I don't know if you know the song, it's very famous song that Nicole Molan wrote and recorded that maybe 20 years ago at this point. And so he's telling this story on stage, and he's crying through it. And all of us are like trying to hold it together, like chills on our skin. Toby slacks are so wet by this point from the tears. So he, and he had said that growing up in Kenya, he always dreamed of being a musician. And so he started singing the song, my Redeemer lives, and he's got a voice. And the craziest thing is that somebody pointed out I think it was the person hosting up on stage that was kind of hosting this interview like you and I host this podcast. She turns to him and says, Do you know that Nicole Mullen is sitting at your table? What Nicole Molan was the musical guest at this event, and she was sitting at his table, as he is telling the story of singing her song while escaping a pack of hyenas in Kenya, like all of us are just like, oh my gosh, this was total like the Holy Spirit moment. I wish our guests could see your mouth right now.

6:27

Man, my mind is blown. Yeah, like, that is such a crazy story. And I can only think of you know one thing better than that story would be bringing in our guest today, which does whatever Mike Smith did here, but officially he's the tech director for Harvest Church and Riverside. Chris. You want to try?

6:48

Guiza ball? egg egg was Bo x. x small x cool ball. X ball. Chris help us here. We're dying. We look so stupid. Ag samo Aizawl ball ag Zabol a lot of people just call me Squeezy ball. Oh for some reason and more. That example is that Kenyan? Is that the to the story pain actually.

7:11

Oh, nice. I like Chris Squeezy ball though.

7:14

Briscoe told me here so I like eggs ball. Like if you put eggs in a ball and then like kick it around. I don't think the eggs are gonna make it. Oh, man.

7:25

Okay, Chris. We have got five truths in the life for you to play. And you've made it very simple so much that I'm scared all of your Fokine and why.

7:35

And is it like what are the chances like number three is I was chased by a pack of hyenas through riverside park one day.

7:43

I guess we're gonna find out.

7:43

Number one, worked at Disneyland. Number two worked for Universal Studios.

7:52

Competitors there. Yep. Number three work for Elton John, fellow competitor and who is now who was Elton John a competitor. You said fellow competitor. You feel like you are competing with Elton John. We are for Star Power Toby for star. I don't think Elton John sees as a competitor because he's not looking in the right places.

8:11

Number four worked on a television show. Number five worked in a galaxy far, far away.

8:18

That's the lie. Does that mean he lived in Star Wars and nobody's been to a galaxy far far away. Okay, worked on the Grammy Awards in this is a good list. Now he's in Southern California and a lot of these things. I mean, Elton John, I'm sure has done many things in Southern California. He's probably an LA guy.

8:38

I'm gonna I'm gonna call my shot. Now. He's worked on a television show. All right, I'm gonna say that he. He worked for Universal Studios, but never worked at Disneyland.

8:49

Alright, so we'll see. Toby's got universal. I've got television show. Chris, what was your lie?

8:58

Why was Elton John and a galaxy far, far away? Do you realize, technically, I guess if you count Disneyland, you could put galaxy far far away but I used to work at Disneyland. I worked for universal. And then yeah, I did a television show called so you save to when it was called.

9:16

And then I did work on the Grammy Awards like Wiley was like one of my early gigs exposed to the industry, thankfully so he exposed himself to the industry. Oh, man. That's a headline sales meeting the industry. Yeah, that's the new documentary coming out. Okay, so both of us lost Chris one.

9:35

He's going to expose himself to the industry now so he's definitely going to lose two but he gave us two chances to win and we still lost Good point. So Chris, we have Elton John and a galaxy far far away on the phone right now both looking for your services. Which one are you going to pick?

9:53

Um, because I feel like Elton John's lighting here does such a good job up Prego for the Galaxy form way less competition.

10:02

Yeah, less pressure. Yeah, in the lighting. There's like literal lightsabers. So I mean, that's more fun creativity there and Blake, I'm assuming at this point you know who Elton John is? It seems impressive when you know who anybody famous is older than 10 Do I know Elton John? Because, well, I'm not gonna say why but I know who he is. Let's just keep that between us and I love me some Elton John songs like he's got some, some amazing tunes. You know, hold me close Tony Danza. You know that one?

10:30

Right? Who is Tony Danza? You don't know who Tony Danza. See now we're back to Tony so close.

10:38

Tony Danza is an actor he was on who's the boss? If you ever I know that Joe from the 80s. But then I think it was in friends where Joey said, yeah, that Elton John song Hold me close Tony Danza. But it's actually Tiny Dancer is the song. Oh, well, I did watch Friends. Yeah, at least there's that not the first go around. But on Netflix.

10:57

Well, I had to binge it to get in favor of my boss. Why do you think I watched the office when I started working here?

11:04

Okay, Chris, Disneyland Werner versus universal. Which did you prefer working at? I love Disney. That was my first job. So it'll be forever my favorite. Oh, what did you do there?

11:19

I was a stage technician and programmer. So yeah, got got hired at 19. I was very young. I was like drinking through a firehose, but it was a lot of fun. I wonder what percentage of the you know, production people in the Orlando area versus la have worked at Disney? It's got to be a bunch.

11:40

Yeah. But I feel like in Orlando, you're probably 10 times more likely, just because Disney World is so big. Oh, yeah. I would assume so. Yeah.

11:47

Now, here's a lot other areas you can get into. But Orlando, it's pretty much theme parks only.

11:56

It's true what you do at Universal Studios. I did their grad nights for a while. And then just a bunch of random special events. So yeah.

12:10

Okay, and I want to know about the Grammy Awards. When was this? What did you do? And what was the experience like and what did you do to expose yourself to the industry?

12:19

That's the after dark episode. Yes. Well, one of my friends was on that show, and pretty much just asked if they needed extra Tech's. So they brought me along, and I just soaked up everything I could from everyone on that show. Gosh, I forgot what year it is. It was probably good. Well, years ago now. So it's been a minute. But I think it was like, it was 19 Two.

12:44

Yeah. So it was just crazy.

12:50

So how many like Do you have any rough estimate? Like how many production people does it take to pull off the Grammys? I'd say easily over 200 to load it in. Yeah. It was wild. It's a ton of rigging. And it's about a week and a half load in two weeks Deco. And at the Staples Center.

13:07

Yeah, this was one it was at the Staples Center that year. It's kind of been all over the place. But yes, staples are crypto now is worth I think it currently still happens. And so you were like production load in kind of the lighting. Okay, yeah, pretty much to do anything really cool for specific artists or no really just definitely got to watch the programmers program and learn from all of them. And it was a great time. But yeah.

13:41

Blake, I feel like our our ultimate goal is to host the Grammys. Do you think we could get to that someday, Toby?

13:49

Our ultimate goal is to be elected president and vice president of the United States.

13:51

That sounds awful.

13:53

I don't want that job. Why did we don't want the job, we just want to win and then leave. I didn't say we were gonna do the job. None of them do it.

14:01

Imagine if we're hosting the Grammys. And Taylor Swift is like one of the you know, presenters or artists or guests or whatever. Like you would have to just be in a straitjacket the whole time. Well, they'd also be like, why is the President the Vice President hosting the Grammys?

14:16

So Chris, you know, 19 doing the Grammys. Give us some of your background like how did you get started in tech and what? What led you to where you're at with harvest today?

14:28

Well, I started when I was 15, got into some theater programs because I was in middle school, high school age range there. So I was homeschooled for high school. And so it gave me opportunity to just do like theater programs. My goal was to work at Disney. And so I did everything I could to get the experience to qualify for that.

14:50

meant met some mentors who worked there because my parents both worked at Disneyland as well. So we were there all the time. is meant for people who work there. And those guys kind of raised me up and helped me get, you know, the experience I needed pointing me in the right direction. I did volunteer harvest at that age too for a while. It wasn't a goal to work at harvest at that time, and so ended up getting a job offer at Disney. So I worked there for a while, and then then my dad got sick. And so I had to leave there because my parents got divorced. And so I was like the, when you're the like, lawyer, I guess, are the legal person for them to make decisions. So I had to be there all the time to make decisions in the hospital. So power of attorney has power of attorney and ended up leaving Disney just was the right time.

15:44

And it was it. I learned a lot there was like drinking through a firehose, it was crazy and meant a lot of great people.

15:54

Once I left there, I did freelance and then I still do a lot of freelance, but then harvest hired me right, then I think I just turned 20. And so I started out as the lighting designer, did that for probably 10 years while doing freelance on the side, and then eventually got bumped up to a production supervisor, which was just over one campus. And then I'd say about three years ago, now, I got promoted to tech director, Production Manager, which is over all our campuses. So we got three campuses right now. And yeah, so I oversee a team of 15 people, and 2015 staff and 20 volunteers, which is growing volunteer wise. And yeah, that's where I'm at now still do freelance. I mean, the great thing about working at harvest is they're they've been really gracious and great with flexibility, allowing all of us to do freelance if we wanted to.

16:57

So it's a great opportunity to get like fresh air and go see other techniques and what technology is happening and see what other people are doing.

17:04

And, you know, grow your creative skills outside of artist, cars, you do the same thing every week, it can get kind of mundane, or you just kind of get stagnant creatively.

17:16

So it really helps keep the creativity flowing. And they've been great with how flexible they are with allowing me to do it that too, because at my position, it's kind of hard to, to allow someone to do that. And so the team has been solid, though. And it's always great to do that, because you ended up sharpening your skills, doing freelance and everything. And then you're able to bring it back and use those skills here, which has been great. So we've given them Blake, the flexibility to freelance as well to hopefully sharpen the skills but nobody else is willing to hire him. So it's been kind of a wash. Here's the thing, Chris, live, church tech confessional on the show, I don't disclose that It's company policy to say when we freelance but I can't do it, because then Toby will not work for all the competitors of church gear, of which there are many. You do have to freelance here, it's in the benefits package to help pay off our salaries because we don't actually get paid anything. It's all volunteer work.

18:12

Now, I think it was I think it might have been Adam Grant recently, but he said that there have been studies that show that moonlighting is actually beneficial to the employees and the company because of what you're saying, Chris that like you're you're getting other experiences outside of that, and then you can bring it back and it almost energizes the the employee, the team member to just enjoy their job a little bit more. Moonlighting. I'm trying to sleep when the moon's out I don't know about you guys.

18:39

I ended up being up unfortunately. But So Chris, I'm, you know, I kind of chuckle a little bit, you know, the whole contracting for other gigs because I know how much harvest does for like major events already. I grew up going to the harvest crusades. I mean, I've been to probably five or six of them over my life. And Blake, we're talking like stadium events, 50 60,000 people, and so very much like a Billy Graham crusade, they would have all the major like Christian artists like TobyMac and I'm thinking back in like late 90s When I went and then pastor Greg would do the the message and the altar call and like 1000s and 1000s of people would come out of the stands and go down and like give their life to Jesus. Like these are major amazing events and suddenly you had Toby the world would be such a better place if you could also given your life to Jesus.

19:32

So Chris, are you guys still doing them to that level and what sound like for you guys?

19:40

We actually last year we were we moved from the stadium, Anaheim stadium to Honda Center, because the stadium was so not willing for us to do the altar call which is a big part of crusade.

19:56

Yeah, just like it was messing up the field, essentially. Oh, I'm There is.

20:01

Yeah, messing up the field was the biggest thing because it's in season. But it's so funny because they said no. But then a few weeks later, they had an event in the field. So really, they got a lot of bad press for it. Yeah. Because it came off as though. Sure. You're just saying it's the grass. We don't know that for sure. But so we ended up moving to Hana center, we did it in a 360. In the round configuration. It was great. It was probably one of the more complicated arena versions we've done, because it wasn't around.

20:31

So it's like, sound times for because usually you're not facing for ways. Yeah. And that was interesting. And this year, we're back at the steam so they kind of had a change of heart.

20:44

Thankfully, we're back there, July 20. And we've got some pretty great artists lined up so far. And are you allowed to say who that is?

20:57

I think I can handle the most of them. Yeah, Chris Tomlin, Phil Wickham, and Brooke Ledgerwood.

21:02

And then are either as well and special guests who have not been announced yet. So would you say the stadium is an easy, like easier setup for production, rather 360 in the center. i We all love the arena's because it's more controllable. Wise, you're kind of exposed to the elements, and it's in July, so it's going to be really hot out here, especially. So I think production wise, we love the arena stuff, because we can also prep it like to be like a tour, so the loading is less crazy.

21:40

Stadium, it's very hard to do that. And the way you have to get in there and stay off the grass, it can be complicated. So load and time is much more intense. But I think we just love also the vibe of the stadium, because it's such a different experience versus a venue like an arena. Yeah.

22:01

There's hits and misses and pros and cons. So enter those events, like all on you and your team, or you bring in an outside production company, what's the percentage there?

22:10

Yeah, so all of the design, production design, lighting design is all done in house, the only the only thing that vendors are used for is the gear so we really bring them in for rentals and additional team like a system tech audio was there and they're gonna raise. So in an RF tech and that kind of stuff. But for the most part, our guys do monitors Front of House, lighting, programming, operating cameras, directing, it's all in house will freelance some camera guys and some gear? But yeah, I'd say 90% of it is all in house production wise. With the exception of gear.

22:53

Yes, super cool. It's like, you know, an opportunity that most church techs don't get to experience of like a stadium level touring production. That's part of the church entity as well.

23:03

Yeah, it's been great. And you know, they've been doing this will be the 35th year, which is crazy. Yeah. I think they just announced probably about a year ago. It's the longest running evangelistic crusade outreach.

23:15

So that's cool. Under the belt.

23:21

Yeah. Yeah, we're so excited to be a part of it. And it's, it's always a great thing to put on every year we had, we were really bummed during COVID When we couldn't do one. But then we went right back to it. The following year was great. So we've only missed one in 35 years. So yeah, that's great. Okay, I want to go back to something you mentioned, because now I'm curious. So the whole idea of the 360 in the round. I'm thinking of like, I know Ed Sheeran has been doing it on his tour. I've been to YouTube 360 tour. What's it like from a production standpoint that all the sudden you have to like, give the same experience to everybody in a circle? Like where's front of house go? And how do you program lights to make sure that it's hitting everybody? What's that like?

24:04

Yeah, so I had to seek a lot of guidance from I talked a lot with the guys of passion. And a couple other production guys, one who does work with a lot of in the round with our vendors that work out here at different companies to kind of get guidance on it because we had never done in the round. A lot of us have worked on shows in the round but never been in charge of designing, producing and around so we definitely knew when to ask for help. And the biggest thing is Yeah, lighting you have to have four sides of lighting. And we didn't use follow spots necessarily use the system called Follow me error, Spot track. And so it's all those automated spot track systems that are great for that situation because you know what they have spot up at every side of the stage. So that helped with lighting. And we really just duplicated the lighting on four sides. And that helped a lot with it. Audio wise, we spectrum sound and their kings are doing in their own, they do George Strait, and I think they're on and sharing as well.

25:23

Okay, so they got a lot of experience within the rounds. So that that was like an easy thing for them to kind of come in and conquer it or the downside is Honda Center is not an ideal space to do in the round. So rigging wise was kind of a nightmare, because everybody has to be stacked on top of each other. So led went up, then audio then lighting, and it was like the out, you know, audios usually always used to be in the first hour at the stadium or an arena show. But they had to wait for everybody else to come down because they were the first thing. So they weren't happy about that. But it was great.

25:56

When I could send you guys the photos of it too. It turned out great on camera ism was great.

25:59

And being able to see people around the bands as well was awesome. And yeah, I think the camera is also the learned thing or two about shooting in the round two because you're shooting kind of at each other.

26:13

And then someone's on stage there and everybody's shot because there's no like backstage. So Front of House had to be put into the stands. We put it I think like up in the clubs section. And then monitors was still off to the one side of the stage. So there was kind of no getting away from that because of the way we are set up is more of like a festival configuration where there's multiple bands going up. So you have to have their guys rate their their guitar techs and monitor engineers. So it definitely adds an extra element of craziness. Yeah, it was great. It's fun. Blake, I'm wondering why they didn't call you because you're in the round. Oh, yeah, I'm the perfect shape and the perfect person to manage all this madness.

26:59

And you, you know, people look at you from any angle, and they get the full experience like you've somehow managed to put your personality in the round 203 60 degree experience, man, that's the guarantee. I love, you know, being standing out. And I bet Chris, you'd loved that moment getting to watch the audio guys, because you're a lighting guy get to see, hey, the most important one in the room suite justice on the Avielle inner civil war that we don't talk about what we know happens at domes.

27:26

You know, I owe them a lot of coffee and in and out for that.

27:28

But Oh, nice. It was good to be out before them for once. So.

27:35

So Chris, I want to ask you about something that Blake and I have had the you know, come to Jesus moments about when my vision is a lot bigger than, you know time. What do you say, Blake, if I want you to something, if I have time and money, I can do anything. And you always give me three magic beans and a pat on the back.

27:57

And so obviously pastor Greg, I mean, you're talking 35 years, the harvest crusade, like big vision, big intention for the community and outreach like, how do you as a production team, as a production leader kind of communicate with pastoral leadership of? Well, if we want to do this, this is the manpower and the money involved to make it happen. Like what are those conversations like for you guys?

28:21

Yeah, I think it's probably easier for us than a lot of people because they've been doing this before I was even born. And I think they just know that, you know, to do a really good high quality production event, it's not going to be a cheap thing. But also having the right people on team kind of eliminates that need to outsource and pay unnecessarily inflated costs. So really curating who's on the team, and the way we hire people and bring them on. And then other people who are partners with the ministry, like a lot of the Crusades are honestly paid by our donors and sponsors, who own different businesses in the community or organizations that support us and other churches that helped fund it as well. So that helps a lot. But then also just the the production teams from other churches stepped in as well. Like there's a couple of churches around here their production teams come and help us put it on. And so that helps a lot with costs. So but if they had a vision that was over budget, you know, we come back with them and you know, we do like an A meeting initially of what the dream is, and we render it out. And really it's just being transparent with costs and having multiple versions of a design and rendering with a price tag attached to it essentially is the best way to go about it. We found and then yeah, just having options and what is necessary versus not necessary. As long as the most important part of the night which is the gospel message is lit and heard great. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

30:00

So thankfully, we're able to put a lot of icing on the cake and make it look great as we do. We do end up using it for TBN and television and all that. So yeah, that helps needing the extra icing. But the main goal is always the gospel. So yeah, and, you know, normal Sunday mornings compared to harvest crusade is the expectation like it's just as big and there's just as much icing or do you guys function much more standard?

30:34

Yeah, it's definitely more chill than a crusade. We don't do a lot of flash and trash. And, you know, there's, it's, it's programmed for the most part that morning lighting wise, but it's just, you know, a couple looks for worship. The biggest thing was Sunday's though and it can be tricky is the last minute changes that happen often. And so the crew is really solid. And I think we probably have the best crew with if you come in with a picture, during the last song before message, most likely, it'll make it to the screen before you even get to that stage. Yeah. And that's just one of the things I happen a lot like this past for Easter Sunday, Pastor Greg wanted to show a clip from Passion of the Christ, but we didn't get it up.

31:19

We didn't get it into that morning, because it was being edited the night or two before.

31:22

And so it was one of those things where we have great editors who could do it really quickly. We have a great video director who can get it and cut it in there in the right spot and make it look dramatic. And like it was all planned the whole time. So but yeah, that's probably where Sunday's are more trickier as there is a lot more last minute stuff. Versus crusades. It's a lot more timed out and planned ahead of time.

31:46

But I think that's what makes Sunday's break because you're not just board. So and so you get frustrating if I'm being honest. But most time it's there's not a lot of frustrating decisions. It's a lot of just oh, by the way, we're going to add this. Okay, cool try. And they're totally gracious. And we can't make it happen in time, which I think is important for leadership to understand is we can do this, but if it doesn't make it, they'll be mad at us.

32:17

Blake, have I gotten any better at like last minute changes? Or I give you this big project? And then all of a sudden I'm like, Yeah, let's shift gears because I know I've done that a few times. To be your thing is you don't get feedback until six month delay, because you don't like hard conversations. So I have to guess what Toby doesn't doesn't like certain things like that.

32:36

I just have to figure out how I feel about it. Like sometimes, you know, I've told you, I don't like it, but I don't have more clear direction. And so you have to just throw spaghetti at the wall and keep adjusting. And then finally I'm like, Oh, well like that. Chris, how do you how do you feel about the feedback of I just don't like it.

32:58

I need it sometimes because if you hit too many home runs it can get to your head I think honestly, I don't What are you doing, man? Good point, sis. Don't tell him that.

33:09

Chris we're doing we're in review season and Blake's pretty much his prompting him for his review is okay, tell me how I can get the most tense. And I'm like Blake, I don't give out 10 Because that means you have no room for improvement.

33:22

I did tell my you know, I'm not gonna give that away. That's my review for next year. Yes, I did figure that out. Let's say I've recalibrated what the optimal number is there you go for those.

33:32

Chris Do you have a philosophical approach to lighting for a Sunday morning worship service like what you're aiming for in this current day and age?

33:43

Um, I'd say probably less showing if that makes sense. I think the the current generation coming up is looking for a lot more the word is kind of thrown around maybe too much as being more authentic. I think looking at it and not necessarily be I don't like throwing the word authentic around with lighting but I think being intentional with it is definitely the way to go about it. Like do you need to have the lights hit the audience and the lights every single song or do you wait for that big nice chorus moment and then obviously read the crowd here like at first service and it's mostly the retired people you probably wouldn't. And third service when it is mostly the younger people who slept in then Yeah, go for it. But it's definitely reading the room. Two people are in it and energize then kind of match that with the lighting. I think a lot of times people think that the lighting is going to get people energized and that's not the case a lot of the time. He like use the lighting to match the energy and not the other way around. Because the lighting shouldn't necessarily be leading. I feel that's the worship part of the worship leaders. So yeah, and Talk to me about your balance in approach of lighting between in the room for AI magazine, assuming you guys are doing iMac and the live stream, how do you what do you prioritize, we have to find a happy balance because sometimes we can cater a bit much to camera for when it's a special deal and we know it's going to TBN for a special or something. But on a normal Sunday, it's finding that balance between not making it studio bright in the house for a, you know, a sermon, but make it more comfortable for reading the Bible. But also you want the cameras to catch up. So it's really just working closely with the video director and, and seeing what looks great, and what you can maybe turn back on.

35:47

And then yeah, when we do like a night of worship, we just did one recently, and it's not being broadcast anywhere, we'll just turn the IMAX screens off and just do lyrics. But they'll still be shooting it for, you know, the like promo video for the next one or a recap video, or just so they could see what it look like if they didn't get to make it like if Pastor Greg didn't get to make it. Sometimes he will get a stream like a private link. But yeah, it's just really, depending on what the goals services, and most of the time, that's just balance.

36:24

You're not the first lighting guy to say this on the podcast.

36:27

I've heard a lot more recently on here, when we talk about lighting on you don't have to use every single light all the time, like match the room don't lead the really the worship night we just had I ended up renting, I think it was six or seven Estera tubes. And for 90% of the night, those are the only lights on and we have a moving light rig of nice fixtures. But it wasn't matching the tone that they wanted to convey and the experience they wanted to create. So yeah, like we used seven tube fixtures versus our 20 rig lighting rig. So yeah, if your church has a smaller budget, I hope that's an encouragement to you that you don't need a million lights.

37:10

And I think the older I get the I won't say wiser because I wouldn't say I'm very wise wise.

37:14

But the greater artists like the greater artists get the more creative they get. I feel like the the mindset shifts to what can I take out? Because I think young artists just coming up are like, What can I put in? And then as you crest that, you know, older wisdom, you start to realize no, no, it's about what can I take out until I have the ideal, you know, image or creation or whatever it is like the least elements.

37:43

That's true. The more I've done produced this podcast, I've been editing your voice out. I don't know if you listen on Mondays, but not even in the episode most like I will.

37:52

And then I will. Okay, like if you don't? Yep, see, we're doing it right now.

37:56

That actually, I think if you would have just stopped at the first one, it was really brilliant.

38:04

Thank you. So Chris, this is something I asked myself many times every time especially I look over at Blake and think like, gosh, I could have done so many things differently in my life. And it would have turned out differently. What is some advice you would love to give to your young self just starting out in production, especially in the area of lighting? So many young kids get into lighting?

38:24

First? I don't know if lighting is just the you know, the sexiest thing for the young guys to gravitate towards. But what would you what would you tell your younger self, I would say really slow down.

38:36

Because I did do a lot at once.

38:46

And I still see a lot of people kind of do that where there seems to be a it's the generation of you can get it now. Because you can literally order a pizza right now on your phone and get it in 10 minutes.

38:58

And so I think having that kind of access makes people think they could get that with their career, or just jobs in general.

39:05

And so just kind of slow down and do some more learning and find some really good mentors. I had some great ones. But I also was just always busy, busy, busy, busy doing stuff and felt like I was working too young, if that makes sense, because I was so passionate about it. But I would say yes, slow down. You don't have to get there. Right away kind of a thing. And I think that still applies today.

39:34

Chris, how do you find those good mentors. I'm still looking for one, you know, next to Toby's. Don't do me much good here.

39:39

It's kind of accidental. But I'd say the best advice I did get was find someone doing what you want to do when you're older or who's doing what you eventually want to do and ask them everything you can about how they got to where they're at. So probably the best idea I think that I was ever given. So it was pretty good. Nice.

40:00

I said it about Monty Kelso who was the co founder of slingshot.

40:05

And I say I even tell my wife like I want to be Monty when I grow up. So I've you know, continually been I text Monty and Mike, we grab coffee and you can tell me more about how to be more like you. Does he keep saying no. Is that what you're not getting any better? You know, Toby's quite a disaster that we believe Monty can fix as where is that stay away? Don't call it out.

40:27

Disaster. All right, went for Toby's performance review. I'm gonna give him a six and a half on podcast. Okay. Tell us about a disaster, Chris, that has happened, you know, maybe a moment that went wrong and how you saved it. Or maybe it went really bad and how you explain that and communicated it with leadership afterwards? Just you know, those moments that come into production, and it's happened last Friday, this just happened.

40:49

I so this is a good one. It wasn't me. But it speaks to the great teamwork that we have at Irvine campus. And so do you want to say that person's name no podcast? Throw him under the bus right now?

41:06

Who did a really great job? Who made the mistake of elimination?

41:10

We got it. Not everybody's like utopian, shout out everyone's mistakes.

41:16

So the Pastor John, who's Greg son was speaking at Good Friday service. And he was given the wrong mic when he came out to speak. And so that just created a chain reaction of disaster because the front of house guy didn't know you had the wrong mic. So he had the wrong mic up.

41:33

And then he tried that mic, that mic didn't work. And so he's like, what's going on here? Then the worship guy, worship leader gives him his mic, which is already off because they finished worship. So that mic doesn't work. So he's got two mics in his hands now. Then the other worship leader gets him his mic, which is also off because they already finished worship. So he's got three mics and guns now. That don't work.

41:53

And then finally, the stage runner brings out the mic that he was supposed to grab in the beginning. And that mic starts working. And so the great thing is, though, we're seeing this on a feed, and you every and this is where the broadcast, I gets the shout out because every mic worked on broadcast. And so you can tell that it that it wasn't up because he just has all the mics up at once and then just to be safe, then he'll bring it down to the right mic, because he is anticipating that potential happening. So yeah, shout out to the broadcast, because you couldn't tell that none of the mics were working.

42:32

Every mic work. So we're here like, I don't know what he's talking about every mics working. So in the house, though, that's where it was probably chaos because every mic was not working at the initial moment. Okay, Chris, and asked question or broadcast guy in Orange County, by the way, want to shout him out. He's keeping on top of it. So nice work, say his name again. What was it was it?

42:55

Oh, gosh, Josh burns. He's our broad engineer. Yeah, everything was burned down. Josh was on. That's right.

43:01

So Chris, honest question. Was it the techs fault for handing the wrong mic? Or was it the pastor's fault for grabbing the wrong one?

43:09

It was the textbook for looking okay. Mike. Yeah. So you live in you learn, but I wanted to put it on the pastor never forget that again. Once that happens, it's honestly the best learning opportunity because you know, won't happen again. And you don't necessarily need to punish. Because the embarrassment alone is enough sometimes. And yeah. So Toby, when we launch our next church tech podcasts, we're just going to call it I'll never do that again. Because every Tech has one of these stories where they say they have a tick 20 years later after that moment, where they're checking that thing like five times.

43:47

But blank, I'm worried about you specifically because what Chris just said the embarrassment alone is enough to make sure he never does that again, Blake, you're never embarrassed. This is why I'm not getting any bad.

43:55

I know because you have no shame.

43:59

Can I go to the shame score? Oh, goodness. Well, I'm going to do a shameless segue that way. I call it out before Toby can mess with me. I don't want to live in this. Okay, there we go. Chris, if you're gonna give a takeaway, what would you say to a roomful of Tech's other than, hey, don't mess up that mic four times in a row. What would you give them that would make their Sunday better?

44:23

Oh, man, let's see here to make their Sunday better. I would say get some good sleep. Because I I strongly believe that if you don't sleep enough, the night before Sunday, and you're playing video games, or you went to Disneyland or somewhere you might have a mistake on a Sunday. And I think there's been statistics like if you don't get enough sleep, the chances of a mistake happening are substantially higher. So I would say take care of yourself and get some sleep for sure.

44:58

Yeah, Toby. I will have that one because we've done over 100 episodes, and I've worried about the segment, I thought we're going to run out of unique pieces of advice. No one has said, hey, get some good sleep. And just what you're saying Chris is absolutely correct. Blake, I don't know if you've known this that you don't sleep at all. So that's why you're cranky. Shut your mouth boy. So every year for spring forward, when we lose an hour asleep that the next week, the accidents on the road increase by a notable percentage, I will not be driving for the rest of my life that week.

45:30

Yeah. Yeah, heart attack scope 40%.

45:33

That we crazy? Just one hour of lost sleep.

45:37

So wild breathing? That's one art. I don't know if I would trust it. But I'm sure it does go up quite a bit. Toby, you were a worship leader for years. Did you ever have any, like restless nights that you didn't notice?

45:49

100%? Yeah. And you know, in my 20s, as a worship leader, I was not used to going to bed super early, like, I'd go to bed at like midnight, maybe one o'clock. But when you've got to be at church at like, 630. In the morning on Sunday, I'm trying to, you know, will myself to go to bed at 930 or 10. And it's tough. But I knew that, you know, especially when you're leading two or three services the next morning that is so exhausting, that if you don't have good sleep, like it's, it's going to be rough.

46:19

True. Wellness becomes more important as you age because I know one person who in his 20s stays up to like 2am, wakes up at six drives two hours in other direction does like three services, and he's fine. And now that person goes to sleep at like, five, I think on Saturday, so that's quite well, yeah, get your sleep. Well, Chris, what some things you should plug, what's some things that people shouldn't be sleeping on? What some things you want to point people towards?

46:45

Um, well, our production team has a Instagram so you could see what we're doing. We're cooking up. And let's shout it out is official on Instagram. I have an Instagram, Chris, for lights.

46:58

And so I post a lot of stuff that we do on there. And then on YouTube, I've got a channel that's kind of there when we have time to do it. It's called crew talk live. And so it's a lot of like product reviews. And we have a little podcast thing as well, with guests and all that. So yeah, those are kind of the main things and and obviously, if you're interested in the harvest crusade, you can go to harvest.org and check out where it's coming next. So we've got a couple of locations next year that we're going to that's not California.

47:33

That's fun, Toby. I'm really jealous of crew talk as a name. That's like a really great name.

47:37

I don't know almost as good as crew brew. Like the crew should get together. should honestly Yeah, the cruise should go on a cruise. A beach to have like, you should get more sleep. And it should scare you that we both thought of the exact same joke. Well, Chris, thanks for joining us on the show, man.

47:54

My pleasure. Thanks for asking me to come on and been great.

47:57

Love the podcast. I'm an avid listener.

48:01

You too kind. Hey, listeners, it's time for church tech confessionals. The time for any church tech to anonymously confess the worst thing they've ever done in church production. Here's one now shirts, tech and fashion. One time at a church I was shooting for in house on a Sunday morning. And we used to have somebody come up and pray at the end of the service that we're offering on a specific microphone was pretty much it sent me the other weekend. But I did not get much sleep the night before and fell asleep during the service or the sermon and the margin Come on. And I woke up right at the end and turn the music on and came downstairs because we were up in a booth and the pasture asked me hey, could you fall asleep up there?

48:57

You know, why was microphone not working? I said I don't know. I turned it up and it wasn't working. And he said you shouldn't fall asleep but I said no. He said why do you have a big red mark on your forehead?

49:06

And it was from my head landed on the console on the CD don't want to do your pastors will figure it out. I still bought so you know. Luckily I got a lie guy who knows me? I'll do I will really fall asleep but I'll chronicle his lives. I'm definitely more than one the we did a Saturday I service and like three Sunday morning services. And I was 19 a Canadiens old and I just wanted to do fun things on the weekend.

49:40

So I would stay up all night. I had to be there so early. And you go to like all ages shows and anyways and then yes, I felt sick a lot.

49:51

Hey, if you have your own three to five minute church tech confessional recorded an email to Blake at church gear.com Don't worry, we'll apply voice changer and keep it in Artemus Your secret is safe with us.

50:00

Your pastor will never know.

50:05

Thanks for hanging out with us.

50:05

We hope to see you back next week for more absurd stories, tech takeaways, and overall buffoonery here at the church gear studios.

50:15

Okay, Blake, so I'm thinking maybe the Grammys isn't the realistic one for us to host but maybe the harvest crusade? Maybe you and I could host the harvest crusade? Toby? I don't think anyone would come down to the front to get saved.

50:26

I don't think so. I think it would have a reverse effect. People live their lives to the devil.

50:29

People are like, well, I gave my life to Jesus. But if Toby and Blake are what it's like to be a Christian, then forget it. If they're gonna be in heaven, we don't we need. We're not signing on to that. And as Chris says, you know, make sure you send this to some people so that they get to hear the podcast.