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1:01

Hello, it's Greya Jackson here, host

1:03

of The Climate Question, the BBC

1:06

World Service's flagship show on the

1:08

burning issue of our time. I've

1:11

just been on another excellent BBC

1:13

podcast, The Global Story, which we

1:15

thought you regulars wouldn't want to

1:17

miss. But before we get to that,

1:19

I wanted to flag that

1:22

since we are the climate

1:24

question, we're always up for

1:26

answering your questions. So email

1:28

them in to The Climate

1:30

Question or one word, theclimatequestion

1:32

at bbc.com. No

1:34

question too big or too small. If

1:37

you're lacking inspiration, though, here are some

1:39

crackers we've had in the past. Well,

1:42

I was curious about knowing

1:44

about which foods are

1:46

most associated with greenhouse

1:48

gas emissions. Why

1:51

is Australia so slack at addressing

1:53

climate change? And why doesn't the rest of the

1:55

world give us a kick up the bum? Hi,

1:58

this is Elena from Lithuania. I

2:00

wanted to know what is the carbon footprints

2:02

of our pet. We've. Got a

2:04

listener q and A coming up.

2:06

really seen say make so you

2:08

get your questions in prom say

2:10

see have a chance of featuring

2:12

right Now onto the main but

2:14

at the say Like I said

2:16

earlier this week I was invited

2:18

onto the Global Story the Bbc

2:20

Wealth Services brand new daily podcast

2:22

and we talked about a brewing

2:24

storm in the scientific community around

2:26

hurricanes and climate change. So without

2:28

further ado, here it is. Hello!

2:32

I'm Tasha Adler from the Bbc World

2:34

Service. This is the global story. Then

2:39

story in detail Monday to

2:41

Friday with the Bbc journalists.

2:45

Today. Storm over

2:47

Psychos. Hurricanes

2:51

Cool. I'm typhoons. That's

2:53

enough, nature's most dramatic

2:55

and destructive events. Climate.

2:57

Change is making them saw more

3:00

intense and scientists and are arguing

3:02

whether the way we traditionally. Storms

3:05

is outdated. Were

3:08

asking how can we best. Protect

3:10

ourselves from ever more powerful

3:12

tropical storms, So.

3:17

Answering this kind of question. Means.

3:20

You need some special. Understanding of science

3:22

and Policy and very fortunately the Bbc

3:25

has a podcast dedicated to this kind

3:27

of thanks. It's called The Climate Class

3:29

Sense and it's host is Gray, a

3:32

Jackson High grass. Hello thanks

3:34

for having may I know what with absolute

3:36

delight it's I always have to laugh and

3:38

with whether right because the British have this

3:40

reputation said they for always talking about whether

3:43

us and we have had some family light

3:45

and my in north come over to stay

3:47

at nephews and nieces and I did I

3:49

found ourselves constantly talking about about whether to

3:51

think it said at the at and national

3:54

obsession all I mean these days of climate

3:56

change I guess we're all talking about whether.

3:58

Well. Yes, I do. It's a national

4:00

obsession and we are teased about it relentlessly,

4:03

especially when recording a program. We often asked

4:05

our guests the level them were is like

4:07

what's the weather like where you are we

4:10

supposed question I'm asking. So yes, it is

4:12

a national session and I think we are

4:14

talking about the weather and extreme weather much

4:16

much more than we ever have done before.

4:19

Today. Which will to me about

4:21

when strong ones right? Cyclists Ericsson's

4:23

typhoons. They're all different words to

4:25

describe the same thing, right? The

4:28

great giant storms. But what are

4:30

they scientifically? Ah, what they formed

4:32

had to they were. Yeah, this

4:34

question really is important because it

4:36

helps us understand how climate change

4:38

is affecting these tropical cyclones. I'm

4:40

sure you seen those pictures from

4:42

space. You know where you see

4:44

these massive flood of clouds and

4:46

in the middle this little hole

4:49

and that. Like these giant machines

4:51

and nephew is warm and wet

4:53

and said only for me For

4:55

asians and as is hot air

4:57

rises into the sky is sort

4:59

of creates like a vacuum on

5:01

the sea level sucking and more

5:03

more air from the surrounding area

5:05

that size. Don't get the wind

5:07

speeds Now all this woman was

5:09

terrorizing cools eventually when it gets

5:11

higher in the sky and it

5:13

forms clouds and then rain and

5:15

all of it begins to rotates

5:17

and wind speeds reach a hundred.

5:19

And nineteen plummeted. and now at

5:21

that formerly classified as a hurricane.

5:24

but it's not just wins, right?

5:26

These things are usually accompanied by

5:28

a huge amounts of rain and

5:30

something called storm surges and. The

5:32

courtyard the picture the not really like

5:35

a way that you or I might

5:37

see on the beach. Services: continual block

5:39

of wolves s to huge amounts of

5:41

water They can be nine meters high

5:43

and you tend to get a lot

5:45

of flooding landslides and see huge amounts

5:47

of erosion associated with hurricanes. And

5:50

we can talk about that that the effects

5:53

on on humans have a bit later. In

5:55

this episode, I lived at least for six

5:57

months in Morris's many many many men, many

5:59

a guy in the Indian A since it

6:02

was at the time of the second Gulf

6:04

War and wow, the B B C close

6:06

to listen to the Bbc all the time

6:08

was worrying about the Gulf War. Those.

6:11

Islands that what worrying about the site

6:13

clones and we got to sites and

6:15

warning to that and it it was

6:17

unbelievable They huge and is the fact

6:19

that in a you need the womb

6:21

water the womb as that's why we

6:23

don't regularly see them where I am

6:25

in northern. Europe and my you are. No,

6:27

no, exactly. So the waters have

6:29

to be about twenty seven degrees

6:31

celsius or more and they typically

6:33

foam around five and twenty degrees

6:35

north and south as the equator

6:37

and being over water also explains

6:39

why they begin to die out

6:41

as they wheat slammed as not

6:43

enough of this very moist air.

6:45

And it's interesting about the geography

6:47

because depending on where he lives

6:49

echoed different things. So in the

6:51

North America, in the Caribbean they're

6:53

called hurricanes and then if you're

6:55

in the Western Pacific, typhoons. And

6:57

then where you are in the

6:59

Indian Ocean Murray says that Code

7:01

Cyclades scientists suspect call them tropical

7:04

cyclones and one group of scientists,

7:06

the Un Body Cool the World

7:08

Meteorological Organization. They estimate that over

7:10

the past fifty years these films

7:12

have killed an average of forty

7:14

three people every single day and

7:16

cause seventy eight million dollars in

7:18

damages of the day. Say that

7:20

they really for roses am things

7:23

and really scary as I'm sure

7:25

you can attest if you isa.

7:27

Three One all these years ago. Unbelievable.

7:29

Unbelievable. A Something that I will never

7:31

forget. I don't see why should we

7:34

care about them. You've just told us

7:36

exactly why this care about them Bus

7:38

should we be caring more about them

7:40

as we worry about climate change always

7:42

seeing more of them? Are they spreading?

7:45

I say is there evidence of their

7:47

strengths is spreading? So

7:49

they're not becoming more frequent,

7:51

They're becoming less frequent. About

7:53

thirteen percent less frequent. In

7:55

fact, that they are becoming

7:57

much, much stronger. Say more.

8:00

Rainfall fast. The wins because of

8:02

climate change and he may be

8:04

wondering why Is that? Why would

8:06

climate change has that effect And

8:08

that's because climate change is causing

8:10

our world to warm. So a

8:12

slut world warm. So deep ocean

8:15

temperatures. And that means we have

8:17

a lot more of this warm

8:19

and moist air right? if we're

8:21

creating the perfect storm. The perfect

8:23

conditions for these really intense tropical

8:25

side claims to form an and

8:27

there are other sex as you.

8:30

Which is hinting at you know, there

8:32

are some the recent dated it suggests

8:34

they don't move as quickly. say they'll

8:36

stay and hover in one place for

8:38

much longer. must pretty problematic if it's

8:40

hovering around the coastline is can be

8:42

there for longer, more rainfall, more intense

8:44

impacts, but it's also the evidence that

8:46

there are intensifying much more rapidly so

8:48

as less time for people to evacuate

8:50

and they're forming in more areas father

8:53

and north and south as the Equator.

8:55

A disagrees with with had look at

8:57

what the hurricanes are but what about

8:59

how they're excessive rise because if you

9:01

say that getting worse mean that seems

9:04

to be another storm but storm in

9:06

the scientific community has to us to

9:08

whether we need a new past agree

9:10

to these new kind of storms. As

9:12

as I said when I was in

9:14

the Racist we got to a category

9:16

to can you explain how that categorized

9:18

as it's a cast agree system. It's

9:20

a five point scales. He gets several

9:22

categories and this is developed in the

9:24

sixties. Scoop perfectly. Moon is. When wins

9:26

hit a hundred and nineteen kilometers per

9:28

hour in we turn into beats per

9:30

minute season. Get a sense of how

9:33

fast Blaze. Say

9:38

this is described as very dangerous

9:40

when so you might have some

9:42

damage to propping up structure ones

9:44

may be some roof tiles might

9:46

come officer a bit loose and

9:49

few small trees. my pillow a

9:51

fast substitute is when the wind

9:53

hits a hundred and fifty four

9:55

kilometers per hour. This is described

9:57

as extremely dangerous. Wins that will

9:59

cause excess. The damage say you

10:01

might lose your race and you

10:03

may have some power outages. Last

10:05

have access to drinking water that

10:07

might last a few days. Category

10:09

Three is when wind speeds reach

10:11

a hundred and seventy eight kilometers

10:13

per hour and not friends devastating

10:15

damage will a class so the

10:17

area basically become uninhabitable. He has

10:19

to be Category Soul is when

10:21

wind speeds reach two hundred and

10:23

nine kilometers and I left. And

10:26

then category Five is when wind

10:29

speeds reached two hundred and fifty

10:31

nine kilometers. In our now based

10:33

category four and five are described

10:35

as catastrophic. High percentage of times

10:38

will be totally destroyed. Again, you

10:40

can get fallen trees and power

10:42

lines, and again, this might mean

10:44

that you aren't able to live

10:47

there for weeks. Or months.

10:50

I do remember in the rest is

10:52

with the cats. Agree to that was

10:54

like a public announcement and we'll have

10:57

to buy tinned food and bottles of

10:59

or Sas and we had to go

11:01

to the town Hall which was seen

11:03

as the strongest building Doesn't mean that

11:06

for the public than category one equals

11:08

the best mess. Accessory to equals that

11:10

measure is that uniform or but presumably.

11:12

Because of infrastructure that. Varies from country

11:14

to country. Yeah, I think

11:17

you're right, it will very very much

11:19

from country to country. So it might

11:21

be that in somewhere at an like

11:23

Senegal which does experience hurricanes that actually

11:26

Catch be One is gonna be pretty

11:28

catastrophic, right? because of the types of

11:30

housing that they have, the S whereas

11:33

Catch Be one in the Us, you

11:35

have much better built houses and therefore

11:37

it might not be as serious. Write

11:39

it all depends on what sort of

11:42

infrastructure is there already and whether it's

11:44

designed to withstand these sorts of. Wind

11:47

speeds and slugs. So

11:49

I'm gonna throw you into the

11:51

scientific maelstrom of a ral over

11:53

whether we need category sex now

11:55

because I understand why heated debate

11:57

do you think they should be.

12:00

One and why is that debate

12:02

so heated? Well it's been going

12:04

on for a little while at

12:06

least a decade when I was

12:08

looking through scientific papers and this

12:10

is when typhoon high on hit

12:12

the Philippines and twenty thirteen it's

12:14

will say confusing me known as

12:17

super Typhoon Yolanda and in the

12:19

hurricane wind speeds hit three hundred

12:21

and fourteen he misses prowess say

12:23

is to sold as way above

12:25

cast be five, possibly be six

12:27

and equip them. Really horrifying effects,

12:29

flooding, Mudslides, storm surges as six

12:32

meters on the Bbc at

12:34

sea went there to gather

12:36

tape and testimony of people

12:38

in it's wake, starting in

12:40

a town called later. Reuters

12:42

or should buy popcorn and

12:44

we do survive. but good

12:46

form is so huge beyond

12:48

our imagination. Got it's It's

12:50

just overwhelming Were were clinging

12:53

to the post we were

12:55

probably got. It every

12:57

would have thought though it would have stopped. It's

12:59

own station. Some areas there's

13:02

no outstanding. The only thing

13:04

it's issues so Mattresses interests

13:06

how to use out of

13:09

shield what houses used to

13:11

be. Thousands of clothes

13:14

just hanging. On broken branches

13:16

of treats people have lost

13:18

everything. It kills

13:20

thousands of people. There are various estimates,

13:22

a lot of the ones I've seen

13:25

a six thousand people and same.

13:27

I say that in the Philippines they

13:29

have to resort to Musgrave. Four million

13:31

people were left homeless and the

13:33

damages the thirteen billion dollars is kind

13:36

of hard to imagine, but it was

13:38

considered the country's less natural disaster

13:40

and so after that's a scientific paper

13:42

came out saying that pricing plan was

13:45

a category six. Now ten years

13:47

later this debate has been reignited by

13:49

this. New peer reviewed paper in

13:51

the Proceedings of National Academies Scientists

13:53

and they are saying that with

13:55

climate change we need a cast.

13:58

Agree Sexy best to communicate. The.

14:00

Risks as these super storms right?

14:02

I guess the idea behind subbing

14:04

a new task to a would

14:06

be to sound the alarm louder

14:08

to warn people to take action

14:10

Exactly and with climate change you

14:12

know the authors say we are

14:15

seeing more more of these hypothetical

14:17

Touch Greece six Psalms right? So

14:19

sorry. This assumes that have been

14:21

recorded hits that tested recently and

14:23

all of those five storms occurred

14:25

in the last decade and with

14:27

climate change we might be out.

14:29

expect more. More sense. So as you

14:31

say these races storm seals the say we

14:34

need to sounds that alarms out loud and

14:36

to do that they say we need. To

14:38

screen. Soreness,

14:40

Like be surprised know that when changes

14:43

to testify. Or always First against

14:45

that will be hearing about the

14:47

insists the moment and also what

14:49

we can all do to help

14:51

protect ourselves more at from survey

14:54

whether. Stories

15:05

Scribe. Or follow us wherever you get

15:07

your podcasts and while you're looking, At your

15:09

phone check out the climate class. Since which

15:11

is presented by a wonderful guest

15:13

Gray A Jackson we had grass

15:15

how climate change is driving more

15:17

powerful hurricanes and that they've been

15:19

this new research saying we need

15:21

more on a scale of hurricanes

15:23

that messes the storms power. Is

15:25

there any precedent in changing the

15:27

kinds of warnings or weather alerts?

15:29

As with seeing climate change. Yeah,

15:32

it's not uncommon a tool for agencies

15:34

to add cast. Grace thinks the climate

15:37

change so it's One example I found

15:39

was Israeli as Bureau of Meteorology added

15:41

a new color purple to it's weather

15:44

maps to so just how hop things

15:46

can get a case so. If

15:48

we go back to cut Hurricanes now,

15:51

we've talked about the resets calling for

15:53

a category six inheritance to be introduced,

15:55

because in some cases it's sort of

15:57

seems like we're already there, but there.

16:00

The taxes? Well right. Why would they

16:02

object to this idea? Yes, are there

16:04

are basically three sort of branches of

16:06

criticism if you like. The first is

16:08

that a category five storm is already

16:10

pretty awful, right? Catastrophic damage your house

16:13

is gonna be playing down. You're not

16:15

gonna be awesome if bucks very for

16:17

a long time of power and water

16:19

is is reinstalled to, it's really hard

16:21

to see what to greet six ads

16:24

and maybe it's not worth revisiting the

16:26

critics say until we can build homes

16:28

that can withstand. Category five Storm

16:30

right. So the second bit

16:32

of criticism is that it's just a

16:35

bit imprecise. It conflates different kinds of

16:37

risks as we discussed. It's not the

16:39

wind that says that the made a

16:41

killer hear it, it's the water, This,

16:43

the storm surges. and the rainfall. And

16:45

and the floods. And while storm surges

16:48

maybe insist a bit by wind speed,

16:50

it's mainly by the same as the

16:52

coastline and the Joker free and rainfall

16:54

is. Pretty. Much entirely disconnected from

16:56

wind speed sites, the criticism there is

16:59

that it doesn't really reflect the risk.

17:01

And. The final and third one is that

17:03

it's Amy, the Us and the Caribbean

17:06

that use is this Saffir Simpson scale.

17:08

Other parts of the well geez, different

17:10

scales and they measure the wind in

17:12

different ways. save the U S at

17:14

a brave ones that se fly planes

17:16

into the songs which I would not

17:18

fancy whereas others they're using ground stations

17:20

to measure the wind speed. So it's

17:22

really difficult to compare these storms on

17:24

a global scale. So those are the

17:26

three bits of them to Chisholm? Really?

17:28

Okay, and who is it will make

17:30

that decision. And until. This honestly dry

17:32

does it matter if you keep asking

17:35

readers sense as soon as the really

17:37

see I think I'm I probably have

17:39

to stay on the fence and a

17:42

bit balance am a bounce it But

17:44

the person who who does ultimately decide

17:46

as the Us National Hurricane Center there

17:49

like a government agency charged with tracking

17:51

storms and issuing these warnings so let's

17:53

hear from them. his Jamie Rhyme Deputy

17:56

Director of the Agency. To be

17:58

honest I think scales are are. The thing

18:00

we've done in the past and they just have it.

18:03

Works. As effectively as we would

18:05

hope so, we're not looking at any

18:07

changes to the scale at this particular

18:09

time, where instead focused on communicating the

18:11

risk and hazards that come with these

18:13

particular storms. Seagrass I'm not mistaken,

18:15

is rejecting this category six I

18:18

dare. On practical terms, he's not

18:20

arguing with a science that we

18:22

talked about suggesting that climate change

18:24

is making the storm stronger and

18:26

longer, right? Yeah. Exactly. There's so

18:29

much states has to point that these

18:31

films are getting much stronger and much

18:33

more intense scale. Really, it was developed

18:35

to communicate risk and lots of infrastructure

18:37

damage. people might say and say that

18:39

keeping it on that messes it's about

18:41

communicating what the risks might be, see

18:43

that they can prepare. I

18:50

sent it Really shocking what you told

18:52

us earlier in this episode he said

18:54

that's the storms of the last fifty

18:56

years. They've killed an average of forty

18:59

three people a day and cause seventy

19:01

eight million us dollars in damages every

19:03

single day as well. Is is getting

19:05

worse and really and I'm thinking first

19:08

and foremost that the cost and in

19:10

human lives Easy to see him as

19:12

the storms a lasting longer and them

19:15

or powerful more people are dying. Yeah,

19:18

he would. Wouldn't you that this

19:20

is the thing and it's really

19:22

counterintuitive Am: Are they getting more

19:25

deadly? Are they kidding More people?

19:27

The answer is no. Even as

19:29

the climate is driving much, while

19:32

they're much more intense and extreme

19:34

weather, people are just getting much

19:37

better at preparing for these disasters.

19:39

We're getting so good at preparing

19:41

said these storms that the World

19:44

Meteorological Organization has a target and

19:46

that suit eliminate deaths. From

19:48

extreme weather by twenty twenty seven.

19:50

So three years away. Eliminate.

19:53

So to go from an average of

19:55

seventy eight deaths a day to zero?

19:58

Zero? Yeah, And. A

20:00

lot attention is in Africa right now

20:02

where half the population don't have access

20:04

to early warning systems. But it's not

20:06

just about how we warn people is

20:08

what people do with that information once

20:10

they receive the warning in a you

20:12

talked about that you in malicious you

20:14

went to does it was the town

20:16

council the strongest building in the eye

20:19

on health the town hall exactly. So

20:21

unless you know what to do with

20:23

that information it's a pretty pointless to

20:25

have the morning and in the first

20:27

place and you know what Bangladesh is

20:29

of really incredible example. Offense there were

20:31

really low lying country that is affected

20:33

by side claims on a really regular

20:35

basis and not only to they have

20:37

some really creative ways to disseminate alert

20:39

seen a where people might not have

20:41

access to a phone to receive a

20:43

text or even a radio or tv

20:45

but they send a message by religious

20:47

leaders and teachers and a kids come

20:49

home and tell their families and even

20:51

a people that go around on on

20:53

bikes with with megaphones but as also

20:55

dislike extensive training program within the population

20:57

about where the nearest storm shelter is

20:59

what. To do with their livestock during

21:01

a storm, right? Because if your whole

21:03

livelihood depends on a handful of house,

21:05

you don't wanna leave them and you

21:07

want to take them with you See

21:09

what? What do you do with emphatic

21:11

elderly relatives there? and they've had so

21:13

few fatalities from side claims in recent

21:16

years is a real testament to how

21:18

prepared we can be. Thirty six. Minutes.

21:22

To this is of is a prospectus muzzle because

21:24

I mean we've spent a lot of time talking

21:26

about whether or not as severe. as for six

21:28

bits. From. Some what you're

21:31

saying it seems that was nice to

21:33

be really invested in as really good

21:35

early warning systems and information program. Said

21:38

people are prepared in a situation where

21:40

they could be panicked right? Exactly

21:42

Yes. Although I do think that

21:44

we need to also reduce the

21:46

costs of these storms, right? because

21:48

he may think, well, that's up

21:50

to the government, but that has

21:52

impacts on everyday people, right? It's

21:54

really hard to get insurance if

21:56

you live somewhere that's frequently affected

21:58

by extreme weather. And it's costing

22:01

more more more because of climate

22:03

change, right? One point Five trillion

22:05

dollars in the decade up to

22:07

to Twenty Nine Titan. And as

22:09

always, I like to return science

22:11

since that's my backgrounds. Inner engineers

22:13

are looking at how we can

22:15

build buildings to withstand this kind

22:18

of wild weather. Say there's a

22:20

wind tunnel and Florida International University

22:22

with twelve huge fans that generate

22:24

hurricane where the wind speeds just

22:26

to see how buildings hold up

22:28

with various small interventions and. With

22:30

this announcement of Category Sex, I read

22:33

that there are looking to upgrade it

22:35

so that they can get wind speeds

22:37

of three hundred and twenty kilometers an

22:39

hour and also storm surges as six

22:41

meters So then may well be a

22:44

solution on the horizon. Let's hope that.

22:48

It a global financing producing that that

22:50

was a big subject of discussion at

22:52

the United Nations in annual. Conference:

22:55

Know Climate Conference. This

22:57

year is that poor parts of the

22:59

world say what he wants us to

23:01

in invest in protecting the climate. But

23:03

week we can't be faced with his

23:05

choice of either feeding our people or

23:07

protecting the climate. We know this from

23:09

Storm State where you were talking about

23:11

this right at the beginning of the

23:13

episodes. A cast agree one or two.

23:15

the impact that they might have of

23:17

a hurricane will depends on how wealthy

23:20

basically the country as and and have

23:22

good it's infrastructure. Yeah, that's a really

23:24

good point because the other thing to

23:26

know about. This is that the poor

23:28

countries poor economically developed countries typically have

23:30

done very little to contribute to the

23:32

problem of climate change. It's is mainly

23:34

done by the big big super powers

23:37

of today and say they have done

23:39

very little to contribute to the problem

23:41

and then they are also ceiling the

23:43

effects much more than other countries largely

23:45

because they might be in these tropical

23:47

elsewhere. We see lot more of these

23:50

tropical cyclones spittle. They don't have the

23:52

infrastructure that that could even cope with

23:54

a cast be wanna touch be too

23:56

Unlike. Some when like the Us so

23:58

they feel the impact much much more

24:00

and that's why we saw a big

24:02

breakthrough at Cox Twenty Eight Inch Buy

24:04

this year because it was finally agreed

24:06

that we were gonna have something called

24:08

a loss and damage fund which would

24:10

help countries pay. Basically says so the

24:12

damages that they're seeing am hasn't really

24:14

been set up as says he will

24:16

pay into that fund and he will

24:18

receiver and when when they are see

24:20

that and that's all to be decided

24:22

in the next year. But the hope

24:24

is is that it will mean that

24:27

poor countries can afford to rebuild after

24:29

these things and built. Back Better say that

24:31

they have a better chance of withstanding when

24:33

the next functions. Where he

24:35

really this has been fascinating. Thank you

24:37

very very much And really I've Lancelot.

24:39

Thanks a lot Gray I thank you

24:42

so much for having me every suitor.

24:46

And thank you for listening. If he

24:49

wants get answers to send us a

24:51

test or a voice note on what's

24:53

a Plus for Three Three Zero One

24:55

Two Three. Nine for eight hours

24:57

or you can email us at the

25:00

global Story at bbc.com. We

25:02

love hearing for me and getting today

25:04

you a bet. Louis Naylor is one

25:06

of our younger listeners to date age

25:08

seventeen. he messages saying he's a big

25:10

fan of the podcasts. Well Louis, we

25:12

hope you enjoyed this episode to wherever

25:14

you're listening in the world This has

25:16

been the global. Story to Billie. I

25:24

have to admit, I really enjoyed talking to

25:26

Cut Yeah on the global story as such,

25:28

great Bbc World service so you can subscribe

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free? Until next time.