0:03

Welcome to the Cohort Sisters podcast, where we give voice to the stories, struggles and successes of Black women and non-binary people with doctoral degrees.

0:12

I'm your host, dr Yajma Koala, and today we have Dr Felicia Albert-Wisses, a seasoned professional with over 20-year journey, blending her passions for health and education.

0:23

A racial equity consultant, black health and wellness practitioner, educator and mentor, dr Felicia champions critical consciousness, emphasizing race as a social construct.

0:35

Her work delves into the personal, interpersonal, institutional and structural dimensions of racial inequities, with a special focus on understanding their impact on the quality of our lives.

0:46

Beyond her role as a senior faculty and academic success coach, dr Felicia's commitment extends to disrupting systemic racism in education.

0:55

As the founder and CEO of Well Equity Partners, she reexamined her purpose during the pandemic, aiming her to utilize her skills for conscious living and soul healing, particularly within Black communities.

1:07

Dr Felicia's work is grounded in creating meaningful partnerships and fostering open, honest conversations about race, education and well-being.

1:18

Welcome to the podcast, dr Felicia.

1:21

Thank you so much. I love to sit and hear my own introduction and I think we have to get comfortable when we hear the things about ourselves.

1:28

So it feels good, so it means that it's right. But thank you for having me.

1:33

Absolutely. There's so many pieces of your work and your interest that very much align with mine, so I'm excited for the conversation.

1:40

But before we get into your work, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself?

1:44

Where are you from, where are you currently and what are some of the things that you'd like to do when you're not working?

1:50

Okay, so I am from Boston, mass, so I live in an urban city, dorchester.

1:55

What I'd like to do?

1:58

I'd like to get into that. I love to cook.

2:01

I'm a homebody. I'm a professional at resting and self-care Like I love to.

2:11

If I'm going to rest right, I've got to do the whole self-care routine the candle, the pajamas, the you know no phone, like snacks, just chill out.

2:20

I'm a tea person, so I love my tea cup and all that good stuff, so I'm good at resting and relaxing.

2:29

Nice. Okay, since you mentioned you're a tea person, I have to ask are you like a loose tea person or are you a tea bag person?

2:35

Because I feel like there's some tea snobs and I just want to know are you, how far are you into being a tea person?

2:43

So let me be honest as I raise my hand.

2:46

I am a tea snob. The tea has to be brewed at a specific temperature based off of the kind of tea, right?

2:54

So black tea, green, it gets brewed differently.

2:57

If I do tea bags, they're always organic bags to make sure there's no plastic inside of the tea bag.

3:04

But I also like loose tea. Yeah, so I'm a connoisseur, but I am a tea snob, okay.

3:13

I knew about the different temperatures. I had never really heard anyone talk about the tea bag and plastic, so you just put me onto something.

3:20

So I appreciate that so clearly you are interested and passionate about health and well-being, especially in the black community.

3:28

How did you become interested in the field of public health?

3:33

My journey. So I started off thinking I was going to be a lawyer, because I'm the person that always has a voice, want to speak for the voiceless.

3:42

And then I got pregnant with my son.

3:45

I had him at 20. And then I went to my first doctor's appointment and it wasn't good.

3:51

They was looking at me as if I was another statistic, all the biases that come with being black and young and female.

4:00

And I just remember then that moment that was the last time I was going to ever feel like I wasn't worthy enough or having a negative bias on me, and you don't even know me.

4:10

So I remember in that appointment I said listen, you're going to change your body language, you're going to sit there, you're going to answer my questions, and when I'm done, that's when this meeting is over.

4:19

And then that moment I knew that I'm still being a lawyer, kind of.

4:23

But I did the switch, and so that's how I started my journey in healthcare.

4:28

I continued on whether I started off as a medical assistant, worked my way up to being a nurse.

4:34

I thought I wanted to be a nurse practitioner.

4:38

And then at.

4:39

That point, I was just like I don't know.

4:41

I don't know if this is really what I'm supposed to do, and so I knew, as a young black woman, that my voice mattered, but I also knew that the credentials behind this voice mattered as well.

4:51

So that's when I decided that when I look at public health, I look at health, I look at education, I look at access, I look at the systems, and so I just tied it all together, and that's why I decided to do public health.

5:07

Yes, and so you also decided to get a DRPH in public health, so a doctorate in public health.

5:13

It's similar to the PhD In my.

5:17

I also have a public health doctorate degree.

5:19

I have a PhD, but in my program there were some people who were on the DRPH track and we took essentially the same courses.

5:25

So they're very, very similar. I'm curious why did you decide to pursue the DRPH as opposed to the PhD?

5:33

Yeah, a lot of people asked me because they're like I'm used to seeing a PhD.

5:36

I'm like, well, phd is usually research based, right, and when you get into the DRPH it just means that I'm a practitioner, so I'm not just sitting behind the research, I'm actually out there doing the work as a practitioner and then I specialize in my track.

5:51

I want to do advocacy and leadership and then I did a few other concentrations under that, so to be able to take all the classes in public health.

5:59

But I did like the fact that I can also specialize in a particular track.

6:04

Yeah, I think that's something that I was, and be it's just too strong of a word.

6:08

I found interesting about my DRPH colleagues when I was in graduate.

6:13

It seemed as if, like they could really formulate their curriculum in a very unique and individualized way, where, as PhD folks, we had a much more like stringent set of classes that we had to take.

6:27

So that's really interesting. So you kind of highlighted some of your work experience before you started your doctoral degree and I'm curious, what's that like for you to move around and all of that more in regards, you know, aside from wanting the credentials to back up the expertise that you already had from being in the field, what was the driving force?

6:50

Like, was there an inspiration in your personal life?

6:54

Was there a person who you knew had a doctoral degree?

6:56

Like, what was really pushing you?

6:59

What were some of the other factors? I'm gonna put it that way what were some of the other factors that were pushing you towards getting a doctoral degree?

7:06

Well, I'm actually the first person in my family to have a doctorate degree.

7:10

I think I have been lucky enough, living in Boston, working in a lot of the healthcare organizations, to come across a few more people of color that was sitting with doctoral degrees, and I knew.

7:25

I knew for a long time that I was going to continue my journey, that the doctoral degree was going to be my ultimate degree.

7:36

And I remember when I was pregnant with my son and I had to tell my dad guess what baby girl's pregnant?

7:42

I remember him asking me so what are you going to do about your education?

7:47

And I said I promise you that I'm going to get not just one degree, not two, but I'm getting three.

7:54

And he said, okay, and so we're going to support you on that journey.

7:58

And so I always knew that I was going to do it.

8:03

I was the kid that loved school, school came easy.

8:05

But I was also the kid that, even though I was talking a lot, I had actually something to say.

8:11

So I already knew that that was going to be my journey.

8:16

And then I think, the more I read books, the more I expose myself to black women and to see certain women that had degrees.

8:25

So I had to look outside, more so than my immediate circle, but I knew that my ultimate goal was always going to be a doctoral degree, I think I was just not sure as to what path that was going to be or what area.

8:41

Okay, okay. So it seems as if, like at some point, you were open to the idea because you talked about being a nurse practitioner.

8:47

There is a doctor I believe a DNP, a doctor of nurse practitioner's degree.

8:52

So you knew you were going to get a doctorate in something.

8:54

You don't know what it was going to be, but you were going to get all the degrees in in something.

9:00

So when you did decide to pursue public health as the field that you're going to specialize in and get a doctoral degree, and what were some of the things that led you to study at Capella University, yeah, why did you decide that that was the best program for you?

9:16

Okay, so clearly I'm not the traditional college student and that's okay because, you know, the journeys can look different.

9:23

I had gotten into Mass General's nursing program, the NP program, there's practitioner program.

9:30

I was one of what I think it was probably 72 kids, maybe I mean students at the time, and I think, um, it was only me and another woman of color, so we really didn't see ourselves and I remember, um, being in that space.

9:45

Maybe this is not for me, like I wasn't.

9:48

I wasn't exactly sure if I wanted to still continue to be a nurse practitioner.

9:54

I started, if I'm honest, I started to question the system that I was signing up for and for me, because I'm very intentional about whatever it is that I do, I'm like I didn't want to uphold this space, this degree, this career, if I was still questioning certain things about it.

10:12

So I think in that moment I was really going through my own self-evaluation and understanding and I was like, yes, there's a place for traditional medicine, but I knew that I also had a passion for, you know, alternative medicine, and so how can I, you know, have these in in the space?

10:29

And then, because I've always worked in urban populations, I was just so tired of just seeing or hearing, you know the high risk of everything about us right and still not understanding how to really deal with us right and only looking at um the chart to say, okay, so you have this symptom, that, so it must be this, and I'm like no, no, no.

10:50

What about all the other things that we hold in our bodies historically right for many years, and systems of trauma that we hold in our bodies on top of everything else that has accumulated over time?

11:02

So I knew that me just staying in in health care traditionally was not it.

11:08

And then I also knew that the, the rates of the black health of especially women, is that it should be a public health concern.

11:18

And then how do we, you know, start really practicing and implementing real education in order for us to be advocates for ourselves?

11:27

So, and look at all the pieces, to me public health made sense because of you know the systems and looking at the population of the whole and and figuring out um ways that will improve right, um, the, the big, the larger group of people.

11:43

So I think that's what made me start going into public health.

11:47

But, like you said, when it comes to the research piece, you don't have that option to kind of specialize in anything.

11:53

So I knew that I still wanted to be a practitioner, because that's what the nurse comes in.

11:57

But I said, how can I create this?

11:59

My way of taking, you know, the public health lens right looking at everything that affects the person and then bringing in that piece that you know systems try to forget about, which they have implemented and continue to um, create.

12:14

Is that piece of of racial equity, right, health disparities, all the things that come in there.

12:19

And to me, the public health took everything I wanted to do and just put it into one.

12:24

So that's why I do public health.

12:27

Yeah, that's. I love hearing you articulate your story because it's so similar to how I.

12:33

I was on the pre-med track. My journey happened a little bit earlier in my academic year because I was in college when my like medicine to public health mind shift happened.

12:41

Uh, or mindset shift happened.

12:44

So you know, I remember being in my like science classes and just being like I don't care about molecules, I don't care about cells, I care about people, care about people and I care about our people and I care about the various disparities.

12:59

Why does it seem as if black, being black, is a risk factor for everything?

13:03

All everything bad, um, and how do we make sense of that?

13:06

And and how did that even like? How did we get here?

13:09

And so I ended up kind of going to history of public health throughout, um, but it's there's.

13:14

I feel like there are so many of us who we can address the problem in different ways.

13:19

There's some of us who are called to be in the system, be in the health care system, delivering health, um, and doing that in a different way.

13:25

And there's some of us who are called to study it so we can try to make it better from the outside yeah, and I think because of my journey with having my son at the time and still trying to navigate, propeller became an option for me, because I know you asked why propeller university?

13:40

And that during that time when I did mine, um, that was the only option I can do.

13:47

Why, still being a mom, still working, and I didn't think of a point for my dreams.

13:51

And so I'm like, listen, I still have to go and I'm gonna go.

13:56

It might look different, but, um, it still takes a certain kind of mindset to still do online learning.

14:04

I always tell my students now, um, that if you want to learn, it doesn't matter the environment.

14:12

You still have to do the work right.

14:14

And it takes more work when you are an online student because you don't have nobody over you saying, oh, you got to do this, this deadline.

14:22

I remember those nights where you have to upload that paper by 11 59 pm or the system will shut you out.

14:29

So there was no like, oh, let me just turn this in late.

14:32

It was like, oh, it didn't accept my paper. Now, let me reach out to the professor.

14:36

So propeller worked for me in that instance, I think because of where I was at in my life and I still wanted to go to school and I didn't want to just put my schooling on pause while I was parenting.

14:49

Yeah, I appreciate you lifting that, because some of the things that we've been talking about recently in the community there are a good number of people in the community who are also parenting while they are pursuing their doctorate degree and that is such a unique challenge.

15:02

It's one that I do not know about.

15:05

I got pregnant right at the end so I didn't like journey through the degree with having a kid but or any kid or children.

15:15

But one of the things that we've been talking about is that doctoral programs are fundamentally not structured in a way to support parents Like they don't even imagine most of them don't even fathom that that students could also be parenting.

15:28

So when you think about class times or accessibility or childcare providing childcare as part of the educational experience it is so foreign and one of the statistics that I have come across recently kind of just like researching about our doctoral outcomes Black women tend to be older when we start doctoral programs and when you're older you tend you're more likely to have children as you age.

15:56

So I've just been thinking really intentionally about how we, how institutions, can do a better job of one recognizing and then supporting parents, doctoral students who are parents Because it's a very unique like levels of problems.

16:14

I, now that I'm a mom, I'm like there's no way I could have done it.

16:17

So I champion and praise and just like shout out everyone who was able to go through a program also parenting, because I don't know how y'all do it I assume the second I got pregnant I like emailed or like the second I, you know, I felt comfortable sharing.

16:34

I emailed my advisor and I was like, hey, I need to go now.

16:43

It's a lot and the way the system is set up, right, we're not really thought about, right?

16:47

If we keep that mindset of this the the traditional student Then we're going to stay stuck, because what does the traditional student really look like, especially now and when we stick to traditions a lot?

17:00

It affects the woman more than anybody.

17:03

And then let's add race into it, right, it affects the black woman at higher rates.

17:08

Right. So we have to be very mindful of how can we still be on our educational journey right and still be able to compare it and take care of life?

17:19

Right, we're life and right, yeah.

17:21

And so how? And I think because of my experience, because of understanding the importance of non excuse me, non traditional systems and what non traditional Right?

17:36

I think that's why I make sure that I spend time or working spaces for adult learners, because it's important to that we do exist.

17:48

There's more of us than ever and that who says I start our journey has to stop.

17:53

I tell my students who are adult learners your journey was just on pause, and when you terminology, it doesn't mean that you can't, that you know that you won't.

18:03

It just means that you're just on pause right now and that's okay.

18:07

Yeah, I love that terminology.

18:09

I'm in phrasing because you're right.

18:11

I think that institutions like talk about the fact that the traditional student has changed, but actually haven't changed their systems and their practices and their structures.

18:21

So accommodate the changing face of like what it means to be a student.

18:26

So I love that you are championing and pouring into adult learners across the spectrum of the different work that you do.

18:34

What were some of the highest points of your doctoral journey and what were some of the lowest?

18:40

So like maybe one or two successes and one or two really big challenges, we love to kind of ask who's the balance?

18:46

So we love to ask you to reflect on a really positive element and then something that you overcame.

18:55

Okay. So I'm going to be honest, most of my experience Was amazing, and I say that because I know this process can be so daunting.

19:08

So did I have a challenge? Absolutely I did.

19:10

I'm going to say the good part about it.

19:14

The good part about it was I knew the support I put in place around me in order to start the process.

19:26

At first, there was two words, starting with s, that mattered to me, and it was support.

19:34

Selfishness, because everyone's like what do you mean, you know, by selfishness.

19:40

And then the success piece, the self care, the other stuff that comes after, and what I mean by that is when I was thinking about my journey, I had to make sure I had support, because I had a small kid, I still had to try to figure out how to do this and go, so I had that support system.

19:57

So that part was positive. The sad part to that is that we I lost people along the way, right, because then that's that big piece that I'm noticing when I'm mentoring women that are in the doctoral process is, oh my gosh, the relationship that I thought I had, and it's like as you climb.

20:17

Sometimes people don't understand that commitment, because you got to be committed to this process and there's going to be some people that are not supposed to be a part of the journey, right, and then you have to kind of grieve that loss of certain relationships.

20:32

So I think I only lost a few.

20:34

I didn't lose too many, so that part was good. The selfishness was about me meaning I needed to, you know, commit to this process to make sure that I am focused and in it, so when it starts to get hard or difficult, that I know that I'm capable and able, right.

20:53

And so that's the stuff I had to do. So certain people around me had to support that and me and making sure that my mindset was good.

21:02

And I do remember at some point in that process, because of, I think, what my topic was clearly racial health disparities and really getting into the history of, there was someone on my committee that wanted to change the terminology that I was using, right, because I wasn't using African American in minds, I was saying black, and so it got to the point of being like, oh, we want to change this, change this to African American and do this and do that, and I was like hold up time out.

21:35

This is my dissertation.

21:38

You can correct me on. You know, grandma, you know, did I do a run on that?

21:43

I cite something right, but you do not get to change my story, the context of how I'm telling it and then how I'm choosing to describe my population of choice and the population that I represent, which I'm using black for a reason.

22:00

And so in that moment I knew that that semester was already tough because I kept getting the paper coming back, redo this, redo, that I was like I'm not redoing nothing, so we need to have a meeting because I'm not redoing it.

22:13

So I think in that moment, right, a little bit of like, am I going to have to pause now?

22:17

Is this going to be a problem? I knew that I needed to speak up then, because that's just what I do, and even though I'm in this system, I was not going to sit back and let somebody else who was not of color dictate to me with my research was going to be I'm the expert, I'm the lived, experienced person, right, and so?

22:37

that was our time was just saying true to what I wanted to commit myself to and be willing to deal with the aftermath that could have happened.

22:45

And then the good part about it is another good piece I should say is that at the end of it, when I did have to defend afterwards, everyone on the committee had said this is the first time that we don't have a question of anybody that we ever, you know, sat on the committee for, and I said okay, and they said we just wanna say continue to lead, continue to be, you know, open and honest, continue to say what you gotta say, and congratulations, dr Felicia Albert.

23:20

So in that process, because of the support right that I had, and then my mindset, and then my selfishness, but in a positive way, to say I gotta focus on this, I gotta do this.

23:32

And then, knowing the power of my voice, and in that moment I said if I let them change my thinking and my writing, then they will, they will continue to be able to do that, whoever the days are right.

23:45

And so I said, no, I'm an expert and I'm gonna start being an expert now.

23:49

And so that was the only small piece.

23:53

Now. It sounds amazing right now, but trust me in the process.

23:57

I'm tired. If you've seen that paper back one more time telling me I gotta rewrite it or do something, I was just like.

24:03

I was just through. I was just like what are you doing this?

24:05

So yeah, that's the way to do that.

24:09

Yes, something that I think that I have noticed as a trend and this is all just anecdotal evidence, but now that I've spoken to maybe like 70, I think we're up to like 70, black women and non-binary folks with doctoral degrees, I feel like a trend has emerged where people who have worked before they do their doctoral degree regardless of their age when they start, but they have substantial work experience they seem to be a bit more confident about themselves as an expert, and one of the things that I really struggled with is I did not have that confidence.

24:48

I also it's so funny I had advisors who were like, or people on my committee who also wanted me to use African-American instead of Black, and I had to write I'm remembering I can like see it on the page the portion of my dissertation, like the three paragraphs that I had to insert in order to explain why I was using the word Black and why I was capitalizing the word Black at that.

25:10

But I didn't have that confidence.

25:12

I didn't have that confidence to feel like I actually like know what I'm doing, so I'm not gonna push back, and I think that part of that comes with maturity as well, as when you are working like you know you're responsible for a whole thing, so you know that you are the expert at your task with the specific thing you do for work, and I think that that power dynamic that exists in academia is a little bit easier for folks who have a bit more work experience to navigate than it is for folks who don't so, and I think that that's something that's come up so far.

25:46

Yes, I fully agree, I do, I think so I think we come in just with a little bit more like.

25:51

No, I have a little bit more foot in this area and, I think, my nursing piece, because I was nursing for, like you know, close to like 10 years at the time.

26:01

So I know my stuff and you're not gonna make me change it in my head, but I've always been that person.

26:09

My parents always told me when I was small I was like that I'm like well, why Like, why I got to do anything?

26:15

I can be anything. So it shows up. And I was like in that moment, we're not doing it, because this is the beginning of me being an expert being an expert, excuse me and standing on my platform right and being rooted and solid into what I believe.

26:32

And so to me, that was the beginning.

26:34

Yeah, yes, awesome.

26:36

So now let us transition to. You're finishing up your doctoral degree you're about to defend.

26:42

How are you thinking about your next steps?

26:44

Because you were working throughout your degree, did you like?

26:49

As soon as you got your degree, did you get a new job?

26:51

Did you strategize beforehand?

26:53

How did you kind of pivot from Dr Felissa, who doesn't have a doctoral degree and is working?

26:59

to Dr Felissa who has a.

27:01

You know it is now going to work Like what was that shift for you?

27:06

I think the shift it was not quick for me.

27:09

It wasn't like I went right into a doctoral position like the next day, like congratulations, great.

27:17

Now I'm working on this area, I think for me I like to be present in everything that happens in my life and don't rush through.

27:28

And so because I was still, you know, I had a great back end still in nursing and healthcare, I was still teaching, so I still felt I was still in a good position where I was not rushing to get into anything.

27:48

I knew that in that moment I took time to make sure that, whatever space that I hold, that I need to be true to myself.

27:58

I wanted to be true to my research right.

28:00

I wanted to be true as being a black woman who has a doctorate.

28:07

And there's a difference with that right Cause I wasn't leading with my ego now that I have a doctorate, like oh.

28:13

I'm here I have a ride. I'm like I had arrived before, right.

28:17

So I was very grateful of that and I was very mindful of not being used now because I do have the letters.

28:25

So, minds, I think I was mindful in everything I did, but because I was already teaching, it was an easy thing to say okay, well, now you just gotta add doctor to your name, since you're already teaching at this point, and then I was already consulting.

28:44

So I think because I was doing a few things before I got the doctorate, that I just added on to it.

28:51

And then I think I became a little bit more intentional about certain areas that I was going to speak in or team up with, more so than ever.

29:01

So I think I was more cautious and conscious once I got mine.

29:07

Okay, interesting. I'm gonna ask a question super out of left field, but it's on my mind for a reason that I won't get into right now.

29:13

But since you are already working, you already not just working, you were already teaching and consulting, which are two lines of work that a lot of people with doctoral degrees hope to get into.

29:24

When they start Like before they even start people often envision either I wanna teach or I wanna do independent research and do independent consulting.

29:32

I'm curious and if you don't wanna answer this, we will just completely wipe it but I'm curious did you, did you and, if so, at what point?

29:42

Did you re-conceptualize your salary expectations for your teaching job as well as your consulting rates with the additional letters?

29:53

And why I'm asking this is because I've also been reading lately.

29:57

I've been doing a lot of research lately, but I came across a statistic lately about the additional earned potential earning potential.

30:05

I came across a statistic recently about the additional earning potential of people with doctoral degrees, but in the fine print realized that earning potential the additional million dollars over our lifetime doesn't apply to black women, and so I feel like there's this idea that a lot of us have that I'm going to get a degree and it's going to help me earn more, and I'm just curious how that played out for your life.

30:30

If that was immediate and if that was an internal decision, if there were external forces, I would love if you could possibly speak to that.

30:37

I love that the question came out of left field.

30:39

Real conversations bring up real moments of like.

30:45

Let me ask and when I said I was going to be here, I'm fully here, so I'm going to answer any and everything that comes out of left field.

30:52

I think, yeah, we do think this money's going to come right in and I'm going to be able to get this, and in my experience that has not been the case.

31:04

It is still to me taking time to really say okay.

31:10

So the numbers are now huge, right as far as the pay, I think what I had to do, I weighed.

31:20

Did I want the money immediately because, living in Boston, you know we are the mecca of education, health, we're here.

31:30

So I had the way.

31:32

Did I want to fit in?

31:35

Do I believe in what you're selling in order for me to get my money?

31:41

Or am I going to work someplace that, yes, I know it's not the high pay as this other elite institution, but am I able to stay true to myself?

31:55

Am I able to make sure that I am being the change and providing the service that I said I wanted to provide and not outside what people think I should be doing?

32:06

And then how can I turn around and start consulting and start building to start making you know the money, right?

32:16

So for me, I feel like I had to put this in my head and this is just me no place, no job, no, nothing is ever going to pay me my work, right, because I'm not going to be bought, but I still have to pay my bills and you're not going to disrespect me with your pay, right?

32:35

And so sometimes I think, for me, in the beginning, I was like, okay, I got to do this and now let me get this side job and do this in order to try to still make you know some money.

32:45

And that's still where I'm at, where I'm at now.

32:48

To be honest, like I'm, I'm still like not where I really want to be, but I'm not doing that.

32:55

And so I think, as time move on is having the conversations about how can we really, you know, hire each other, right, because we know that as I look at some contracts and I'm like, wow, you willing to pay them that, but you want to nickel and dime me and you know we're not doing that.

33:14

So, right, so we still got a lot of work to do with our own group as to bringing us in and paying us, but no, it was not the money that I thought I was going to be making when I came out.

33:27

Absolutely not. But I just have figured out how can I still have both worlds and continue to grow.

33:34

Hence the reason why I started putting more time into my company, so I can start filling the gaps.

33:42

Did I answer the question? You absolutely didn't.

33:45

I really appreciate the transparency.

33:47

I feel the same way in that I thought I just like thought immediately that getting a doctor degree meant that you would now be a six figure earner, and it's just like not not at all the case.

33:59

I don't know why I thought that and like where I got that idea from it.

34:03

I really just like thought that that would go me my life afterwards.

34:06

But I also appreciate your the words that you shared about not being disrespected by the pay but also knowing I kind of phrase it like you know that nothing is ever going to pay your worth because you don't have to be bought, and I just love that phrasing love, love, love.

34:23

So you started to talk about your consulting work and so I wanted to ask you about well equity partners.

34:31

So you founded this during the pandemic and it seems like you kind of had like a aha moment.

34:38

How do you envision well equity contributing to wellness, conscious living and soul healing, specifically for black communities?

34:47

I know just the words I choose right now.

34:49

It's funny because well equity, yes, came during the pandemic before.

34:54

Well equity what I've been consulting since 2000 and I think nine or something along the way, with me doing racial equity work, especially why my son was in independent schools trying to navigate that system, and so I was like the whole racial equity education we're not having that with my young black male, you are not going to do a lot of the things.

35:21

And so that's when I really started consulting and getting paid to come in to do things at various places.

35:27

But my first company was named visionary consulting group and so that's where we kind of stayed into that area and I knew at some point I was going to go back to or pull more in on the women's health side, right?

35:46

So I'm still the person that treads lightly with accepting a lot of like jobs.

35:56

And can you consult? Can you consult? Can you consult?

35:58

I'm like no, I got to check in with myself and myself care to see if I can take that on.

36:04

And so I think during the pandemic I'm looking at the totality of everything, right, not just COVID itself, but what COVID actually represented, what it brought to the surface.

36:17

Now you should tell everybody do not waste this time, because even though the time was so dark and blue, there was still a reason for it and there was still a message that hopefully a lot of us was getting out of it.

36:29

And that is to self evaluate.

36:31

Look at things. Are you where you want to be, where you trying to go?

36:36

But to me, more importantly was the health, and not just the physical piece, but the emotional, the mental piece, and even though we've already been struggling at large numbers but COVID just magnifies some things.

36:50

And so that's when I said, okay, it's time to do a shift and kind of now create this platform.

37:00

That when you pull up my website, you know that I'm a proud black woman.

37:05

Everything about it reaps blackness, right Reaps, I am my sister's keeper, kind of thing.

37:14

And then the importance of centering ourselves and everything that we do During that time.

37:20

We know that black women was hit very hard.

37:24

Whether you was in the workplace, you had to stop working and stop back.

37:28

You know watching the kids, whether we're single moms and you know, you know lost jobs and you're trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do at home with these kids and they still trying to learn, like the list goes on.

37:37

But as always, it affects the woman first, and then specifically the black woman.

37:42

And so how do we still come out of this right and get on the other side of it?

37:48

And then the anxiety and everything. So that's what made me really look at well, equity, how can I bring both of my worlds together and really be intentional?

37:59

And so during that time I'm like I've worked with a few people.

38:04

I brought some more people like to partner with me to make sure that.

38:08

You know, I don't like to use words just because they common words like yeah, we want to do holistic this and that, but when you look at people's systems and structure, it's not holistic.

38:17

And so for me I was like, okay, so I have my educational coach, my education leadership coach, I have my license clinical social worker, you have me with the other background of the health and then still with education and racial equity, and bring it all together to say how can we show up and do the work and then continue to partner with others that are not scared I'm going to say scared or maybe have gotten comfortable with doing things based off of what the organization wants them to do and to make sure that we stay comfortable while doing it.

39:06

And so we are at a point, now more than ever, that we have to stand on our beliefs, we have to lead boldly right and we have to be honest about the truth.

39:19

And until we do that right, it's still going to look the same, and so I knew that the people around me understood me and understood my mission and what I wanted to do, and so I feel like this was the best time to have the real hard conversations that people didn't want to have.

39:38

And at the end of the day, we know that all the isms that we deal with, all the disparities that we deal with, is that race is at the root of it, and when we choose to go outside of that, that's what we still stay in that circle.

39:53

So I know you talked about racial equity.

39:57

We kind of been in the same world, so we know that.

39:59

You know race is at the center, and then what intersects race right, and then we can look at all the pieces that go.

40:06

But if we stay scared with this race piece, then you know we're going to sit back still dealing with anxiety and depression, and I can't change this system, and you know all the stuff that we want to happen.

40:21

So I think for me, well, equity allows us to deal with the person and give them power to say what can you do, what can you change?

40:29

So for me, I always tell people, in whatever space I hold, I'm free in my space.

40:36

And I'm like, what do you mean you're free? I said no, I'm free because it's a mindset first right, and then I show up to like who I really am.

40:45

I don't code switch.

40:48

You all know that I'm a black woman, not just a woman, so don't tell me that you don't see my color, because you do.

40:56

But then when I'm in that space, I let those know that any form of racism, ism will not happen on my watch when I'm in the space.

41:05

And the person that knows me knows that if you in a room with Dr Felicia, the little microaggressions, macroaggressions, something that you say that you're like, oh my gosh, did I really offend or I didn't know, it's not happening on my watch.

41:20

And so to me that has nothing to do with the bigger system and fighting that battle.

41:25

I'm talking about what I control and how I show up in the space, right, and so the more we do that and have ownership right and accountability.

41:34

So I put in the energy of myself and what I can control.

41:38

So I'm like, whatever space I hold and share, I'm going to be authentic, I'm going to be true, and it's just not going to happen on my watch, and I'm making sure that when my black women are not in the room, then I'm supporting them as if you was in the room, and so that's what I've been really focused on, and to me, that's the well equity piece, while at the same time making sure that you are good, right, deep down, like, and that you are conscious.

42:06

Right, because we're in these spaces and we're not conscious as much as we think that we are right.

42:11

And so I try to make sure that we're conscious and really looking at real things so we can just get better and take care of ourselves, because there's a lot of depression, anxiety, like all the things now more than ever.

42:25

But we're holding these degrees though, right, so I always say at what cost?

42:30

Right, so we have to start taking care of ourselves better so we can have both.

42:36

Right, I can, I can still be healthy, but I can be healthy, dr Felicia, at the same time.

42:42

Right, how do we do that right, and so that's why I'm so passionate about well equity.

42:49

Yes, you're speaking all of my languages.

42:51

I something I really appreciate that you kind of highlighted in the effort to do to make systematic change around racial equity.

43:01

I do think that we often ignore or kind of like glance over the individual, kind of like racial, racialized interaction with people have.

43:10

I really appreciate that you were like will we not gonna do in this here is any kind of oh I didn't know, like where does not going to?

43:19

I really appreciate that I feel like sometimes in in big corporations, even maybe like smaller companies, we get so focused on like the, we're trying to undo our principles and our practices and we're looking at our policies and how to be anti racist on our policies, but it's like okay, you can be anti racist on paper, but like other day to day interaction, what are we doing?

43:43

I'm so glad you said that and I just need to jump in there, because when we really start removing it from the systems right, don't get me wrong.

43:53

Right, we got to pay attention to that too, but we all can't be doing the same thing, right, we're needed in all areas.

44:00

So people need to pick the area right and say this is going to be the area I'm, a focus, and it's not trying to fix everything, because I believe that when we're doing our work in purpose, right, that we will focus on that area.

44:14

So I know what my area is. I'm on the frontline, right, I'm that one.

44:18

I'm more like the Renaissance kind of person.

44:20

I'm on the frontline, I'm in your face.

44:23

This is what we. You know I'm power, and then those that want to be like okay, so we're going to deal with the.

44:27

You know the policies. So there's so many systems, but in the midst of that, my job is I want to make sure that you are here to see the.

44:37

You know the benefits of what you put in.

44:39

I want to make sure that you know that you're here longer.

44:42

I want to make sure that you are whole and present in conscious.

44:46

Right. In the midst of that, we can continue to get all these positions and do this work, but I keep saying, but at what cost?

44:53

Because there is a cost I always say I'm not going to pay with my mental health myself care, none of that.

45:01

I'm not paying that cost to that. So that's why I say I'm able to show up with the energy of being free and showing what that looks like while I'm still doing my work and still be able to rest at the end of the day.

45:17

I love that and I think so many of us need to hear that, whether we are, we already have our doctoral degrees and we I feel like we can't not do racial equity works like all of we have to.

45:28

There's no choice, I mean, because at some point it is a burden that is unfortunately placed on us by our existence as black women, so it's a responsibility, I mean.

45:43

I use the word burden, but I think where, wherever people are on their journey, whether they're current grad student or they're already finished, there is.

45:49

We are living in a time where there are so many different pressures, like like never before, and it is a paramount importance for us to take care of ourselves, because it's not worth it as you have reminded us, it ain't worth it to do the work if you're not here to reap the benefits, and there's so many, you know, there's so many stories of us crumbling under the weight of the world because we're not taking care of ourselves, or because we have underlying health conditions and we're not getting medical care and medical treatment, or whether they're mental health conditions or or otherwise.

46:24

So I appreciate you bringing all of this to the forefront and I'm excited for folks to hear this and remind themselves that they need to be selfish.

46:32

I'm just using that word a little bit more in my life.

46:39

You know, as a mom, all that stuff like you still have to prioritize you.

46:44

I tell people nobody loved me more than I love me.

46:48

I love me, some me, and I show that myself.

46:52

Would I say yes to the spaces that I'm in and then the people around me get to reap the benefits of that, of me being whole and happy and rooted in center?

47:03

Yes, so so good.

47:05

So I'm curious what is one thing that you would do differently If you had to do your doctoral degree all over again for some strange, weird reason?

47:14

What is one thing that you would do differently?

47:19

Maybe I would have connected an outside piece to it, more outside what can I say?

47:31

I think an outside mentor, because I'm gonna be honest with my journey.

47:39

I remember when I first talked about getting it, I was at an event and I remember clearly this black woman said to me oh, you're married.

47:48

And I said yeah, and she said, well, you might lose your marriage behind this because it's a lot of work.

47:53

And I was like lies, You're not speaking that into me or not?

47:57

And so I remember me saying, okay, so let me just keep my little group that I have around me and I can do it.

48:05

Because I didn't have that, that that full blown black woman mentor to guide me through that process.

48:13

If I could, if I could have had that, I think that would have been great, and not just for any black woman, clearly, right, because she just told me that my marriage wasn't gonna last.

48:24

So it has to be somebody that is positive, confident that this is possible while managing other things, right?

48:34

So if I could have had that, that would have been that would have been nice.

48:38

Now, I got that when I was almost done.

48:41

You know a couple of mentors at that point but in the beginning I didn't have that.

48:48

So I think, because I didn't have that, that's why I want to be that Right.

48:52

Yeah, that's the importance of that piece, so yeah.

48:58

Same same same did own to it all.

49:00

And then, finally, what is one piece of advice, just one piece of advice that you have for current or prospective black women and non binary doctoral students?

49:11

All this is big for me is to be present.

49:14

Good, bad, the tough times you tie the right in, you are stressed, the voice is saying you can't do it.

49:22

Still be present in that whole process.

49:26

Do not check out. I can say when it got tough, I was still present with that because that made me stronger.

49:33

Right, that is something that I can now apply and be able to share with others when they're in that space.

49:39

Right, I think that whatever we go through, this reason and purpose behind it we might not know in the moment, but it matters later and when you are conscious, you're able to get on the other side of that to understand why it to go through that.

49:55

So I think me, because I am conscious, like that, I can always say there's nothing about that process that I do not respect.

50:05

That happened with me, to me, for me, because it was nothing but growth.

50:10

So be present.

50:13

Thank you so much, dr Felicia, for that amazing piece of advice and great reminders to be present to put ourselves first, to dream big, to make sure you collaborate with other people.

50:25

We didn't have time to get into I wanted to yeah, we didn't have time to talk about your, the way that you collaborate with others and your consulting work, but I want to highlight that for folks who may have missed that part, thank you.

50:36

But thank you so much for joining us on the cohort.

50:38

This is podcast and sharing your story or journey, and you are continuing to do the work every single day and we celebrate you for that and thank you for that.

50:48

Thank you, it was worth every bit of it. Continue to do great work.

51:02

Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the cohort sisters podcast.

51:05

If you are a black woman interested in joining the cohort sisters membership community or you're looking for more information on how to support or partner with cohort sisters, please visit our website at wwwcohortcistascom.

51:19

You can also find us on all social media platforms at cohort sisters.

51:23

Don't forget to subscribe to the cohort sisters podcast and leave us a quick review wherever you're listening.