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Dr. Jallicia Jolly on Advocacy for Reproductive Justice and Legacy

Dr. Jallicia Jolly on Advocacy for Reproductive Justice and Legacy

Released Wednesday, 8th November 2023
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Dr. Jallicia Jolly on Advocacy for Reproductive Justice and Legacy

Dr. Jallicia Jolly on Advocacy for Reproductive Justice and Legacy

Dr. Jallicia Jolly on Advocacy for Reproductive Justice and Legacy

Dr. Jallicia Jolly on Advocacy for Reproductive Justice and Legacy

Wednesday, 8th November 2023
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0:13

Welcome to the cohort sisters podcast , where

0:15

we give voice to the stories , struggles

0:18

and successes of black women

0:20

and non binary folks with doctoral

0:22

degrees . I'm your host , dr Yajama

0:24

Cola , today . I'm so thrilled

0:26

to have Dr Jalicia Jolly , an

0:29

assistant professor of American Studies

0:31

and Black Studies at Amherst College

0:33

, joining us today as a PhD

0:35

in American Studies from the University of Michigan

0:38

and a 2022 Ford

0:40

Postdoctoral Fellowship at Yale University

0:42

. Dr Jolly's research focuses

0:45

on black women's health , reproductive

0:47

justice , organizing , intersectionality

0:49

and transnational social movements

0:51

. Her forthcoming book manuscript

0:54

, called Ill Erotics Black

0:56

Caribbean Women and Self-Making in the

0:58

Time of HIV Aids , offers

1:00

a compelling ethnography of young

1:02

black Jamaican women living with HIV

1:05

and their confrontations with reproductive

1:07

violence and inequality in neocolonial

1:10

Jamaica . Dr Jolly's work goes

1:12

way beyond academia , as she actively

1:14

engages in community interventions

1:17

and co-leads Birth Equity and

1:19

Justice Massachusetts , a reproductive

1:21

justice coalition . She's

1:23

also the co-host of the Health Equity podcast

1:26

alongside myself , and it is

1:28

my complete honor to have Dr Jolly

1:30

on the cohort sisters podcast with us today .

1:32

It is a pleasure to be here . Thank you so much for

1:35

that warm and jolly welcome .

1:37

Well , thank you again . Let's just

1:39

start off . I feel like you know , I know you well

1:41

, but the people don't know about you

1:44

. So tell us a little bit about yourself . Where

1:46

are you from , when do you live

1:48

now and what are some of the things that you like

1:50

to do when you're not busy working

1:52

on your book , working on your research , organizing

1:55

or teaching ? What are some of the things that you like

1:57

to do outside ?

1:58

of all of that . I love this

2:00

question . Thank you for starting with it . So

2:03

my name is Jalicia Jolly . I

2:05

am from Kingston , jamaica . I grew

2:07

up in Brooklyn , new York , and I'm currently

2:09

based in Western Massachusetts at

2:11

Amherst , where I'm working at Amherst College

2:14

. So when I am not

2:16

working , one of the things

2:18

that I love to do is traveling

2:20

. I love traveling with my family , with friends

2:22

. I absolutely love

2:24

exploring the world through the eyes of my

2:26

almost two and a half year old . I

2:29

love spoken word , poetry , love writing it

2:31

, love , you know , witnessing it and seeing

2:34

folks . I love perform it and

2:36

I love to eat . You know I might not be the best cook

2:38

, but I surely am a wonderful

2:41

eater .

2:43

I , you know , did not know about

2:45

the spoken word . I feel like I feel like we've

2:47

known each other for a little bit and you

2:49

had just posted last week

2:52

or the week before about doing spoken

2:54

word in was it Paris

2:56

? I was like what in the world

2:58

, how did you get

3:01

into spoken word ?

3:04

Yes , yes , so I

3:06

. So as a teenager in

3:09

Brooklyn , I participated in HIV

3:11

organization . It was arts and activism

3:13

and it was my first time sort of seeing

3:15

arts and activism together was arts activist

3:17

organization that brought together

3:20

dancers , poets , you know , theater

3:22

folks , storytellers

3:24

, rappers and other artists

3:27

. They brought us together to

3:29

educate and share information to the

3:31

, to black and brown youth throughout the city

3:33

around HIV and sexual reproductive

3:35

health . And so during

3:38

this time we would have community events , sort

3:41

of outreach activities

3:43

, and we would have community events

3:45

and outreach activities that brought us together

3:47

to share information about , you know , sexual health

3:50

, ways to educate yourself , protect

3:52

yourself , but also ways to kind of communicate

3:54

with various generations of people

3:56

about safe sex

3:58

, well-being and just

4:01

reproductive and sexual health on

4:03

a broader level . And what we

4:05

would do is come together and have open mics

4:07

. We would have open mics at cafes

4:09

and other , you know , public venues and spaces

4:12

throughout Brooklyn . And

4:14

that's really where I learned

4:16

about my love for the pen

4:19

, about writing and really spoken

4:21

word . Poetry set my soul on fire .

4:24

I love that . I love that . I

4:26

am curious is there anything else that

4:28

you know happened in your childhood

4:30

, or any other memories that you

4:32

can recall that kind of shaped

4:35

the academic , the organizer

4:37

, the activists , the artists that you

4:39

are today , aside from that

4:41

program that you did when you were in high school ?

4:43

Wow , Dr

4:46

Kohla , that was an excellent question . You

4:48

should do like should be an oral historian .

4:50

You're good at this . I may or may not be

4:52

one .

4:54

You may , that is true . Excuse me for

4:56

not assuming that you already are . Yeah

4:58

, so that's an expansive

5:00

question . I think what I will say is

5:03

the first thing that I would say is I

5:06

think I inherited a legacy

5:09

of health organizing and equity work

5:11

, and I inherited from my

5:14

mom , who was a union organizer with

5:16

11.99 and a home health care worker

5:18

in New York City . I also inherited

5:21

it from my grandmother , who was also a union

5:23

organizer and advocate when

5:25

she first came to this country in the 80s , up until

5:27

her death really . In addition to this legacy

5:29

of health activism , I think I also inherited

5:31

a legacy of health inequality

5:34

, and it was important to

5:36

see those both , those two intention and in tandem

5:39

. So my grandmother experienced forced sterilization

5:41

and had a poor access to

5:43

prenatal care and

5:45

which led to the death of my

5:48

mother's infant brother . And so just

5:50

kind of having that context for

5:52

how I come into my

5:54

work , my research , my and

5:57

my love for spoken word and documenting

5:59

experiences and sharing them with

6:01

the world , that is an

6:03

important backdrop that I think shapes my work .

6:06

So I would love to know if

6:08

there was anything else about either your childhood

6:10

or your educational experience that led

6:12

you to end up studying

6:14

American studies . And the reason I'm asking that

6:17

is because I feel like American studies is one

6:19

of those fields that it's an interdisciplinary field

6:21

. It's kind of like nebulous and it's understanding

6:24

. Is it government , is it geography , is

6:26

it US history ? Like what is it

6:28

? So I would love to know how you ended

6:31

up like focusing your work or

6:33

like centering your work in that discipline

6:35

.

6:37

Right , right . So that's an excellent question

6:39

and I think I shared exactly

6:42

what you described in terms of trying to figure out what

6:44

exactly is this understanding of American studies

6:46

. When I was a college student , applying

6:48

to graduate school , applied to black studies programs

6:51

, women's gender and sexuality studies programs , and

6:54

then American studies was like my

6:56

third option because I was still trying

6:58

to figure out and grapple with what exactly it means

7:00

. I have a much firmer understanding now that I'm

7:02

teaching it , in that , now that

7:04

I went to a graduate program American Studies

7:06

at the University of Michigan , which is called American

7:08

Culture and it's conceived as a transnational

7:11

diasporic program , which

7:13

is the best configuration for

7:15

a transnational scholar

7:17

like myself , the educational experiences

7:20

that really shaped my understanding

7:22

of American studies and my desire to

7:24

sort of study and teach in it was

7:26

really having the experience that I did

7:28

in graduate

7:30

school as well as , I would say , undergrad

7:33

, when I took a look at my transcript

7:35

and I realized that a lot of the courses that I took

7:37

in black studies and women's gender sexuality studies

7:39

actually cross-listed with American

7:41

studies . But it was really in graduate school that gave

7:43

me a firmer understanding and

7:45

I'm so glad

7:48

to be kind of wedged in between , I'm joined in American

7:50

Studies and black studies , like being able to kind of understand

7:54

my positionality as

7:56

a black woman professor in both departments

7:58

is also significant to my understanding

8:00

of kind of how I come to both fields differently

8:03

. But I would say my American Studies

8:05

really for

8:07

me is a transnational understanding of the

8:09

people and cultures and experiences

8:12

of not only the Americas but also

8:14

broader , even broader , in the transnational

8:17

and diasporic sense For me . I think what

8:19

really motivated me to study American

8:21

Studies was to see the ways that

8:23

leading scholars in

8:26

American Studies were really complicating

8:29

this fraught and contradictory space

8:31

of the United States and these conceptions

8:33

of freedom , citizenship and democracy

8:36

and really turning those on its head by interrogating

8:39

the experiences of black and brown

8:41

folk , of BIPOC communities , really

8:43

bringing imperialism and colonialism

8:46

into the context and to the fore , to really

8:48

unpack . Well , what exactly does it mean to

8:50

study Americas and really explore

8:52

the idea that studying American Studies is

8:54

studying the United States but

8:57

really thinking about how we can prioritize hemispheric

9:00

and global perspectives of the Americas and

9:02

beyond . And so that

9:04

was really important to me , both as a

9:07

transnational scholars I mentioned , and also

9:09

as an immigrant , as a black

9:11

immigrant , as a black girl immigrant growing

9:13

up at this cross-section between US

9:16

imperialism and British colonialism

9:18

. It was really important to really

9:21

see myself in

9:23

a context and a field that that prioritized

9:25

that and , of course , bringing that together

9:27

with my black Studies lens really allowed

9:29

me to really think about how political

9:32

movements and liberation struggles varied

9:35

and were similar , intersected , across different

9:37

cultural contexts , time periods and geographic

9:39

regions . So that really was the

9:41

the impetus behind why I wanted

9:43

to study American Studies and especially why

9:45

I'm so delighted to be joined

9:48

also in black Studies .

9:50

So I think we have a good understanding of your

9:53

educational interests and background . We

9:55

know about your long lineage , proud

9:57

lineage , of being an organizer

9:59

and being really interested

10:01

and passionate about reproductive justice

10:03

. We don't know anything yet about how you ended up in a doctoral

10:06

degree or pursuing a doctoral program

10:08

, so can you tell us a little bit about your journey

10:10

towards entering into graduate school

10:12

?

10:13

Thank you for this question . It's a good one I

10:15

had . So the Melon Maze undergraduate

10:18

fellowship program was a crucial

10:20

aspect of my journey to

10:23

a doctoral degree . So the Melon Maze

10:25

undergraduate fellowship program is a huge equity-based

10:27

initiative that prioritizes providing structures

10:30

of support , resources and mentorship

10:32

to underrepresented students

10:34

who want to enter the

10:37

academia and be professors , to

10:40

underrepresented students who want to enter the professory

10:43

, whichever way you want to use for that . And

10:47

I participated in that program

10:49

in my rising junior year and

10:52

it , you know it changed my life . It was . It

10:54

really expanded my understanding of research

10:57

, of knowledge production , and it really demystified

11:00

what exactly academia

11:03

is . It demystified what research

11:05

and knowledge production and intellectual

11:07

work could do on a broader sense

11:10

. Right , and so that was a

11:12

crucial program . And then they

11:14

also provide support for you when you're applying to graduate

11:16

school . So I had not

11:18

just sort of , you know , resources and support , but

11:20

also there's a crucial network of

11:23

alumni and

11:25

of kind of a few more senior

11:27

college students who you know , did anything

11:30

from share their applications , who

11:32

just talked to me about the process and really

11:34

helped me understand exactly how to

11:36

approach this , like with being

11:38

informed and being intentional about

11:40

where I wanted to select where I wanted

11:42

to live , how I wanted to build an intellectual

11:45

community , not only during

11:47

undergrad but also beyond it . So

11:49

that program was instrumental . There was also another program

11:51

called the Institute for the Recruitment of Teachers

11:53

, irt , which also

11:56

provided crucial support for people applying

11:58

to graduate school . And they

12:01

and

12:03

IRT provided support to

12:05

allow me to apply and complete

12:07

my applications , matched me with a mentor

12:09

who looked , provided feedback on

12:11

my research and personal statement . So

12:14

both Mellon and MMUF

12:16

and IRT were instrumental

12:18

in kind of just facilitating

12:21

the process for me at a time where you know it's senior

12:23

year , you're overwhelmed , you're doing so

12:25

much , you're also still trying to like be a whole

12:28

human time with your friends

12:30

before you all disseminate across the

12:32

world , the globe . And

12:34

so that was kind of how I entered and

12:36

and that's and that's

12:38

how I entered and got my footing in doctoral programs

12:40

.

12:42

Nice . So I now want to talk about

12:44

the impact of your work after you completed

12:46

your doctoral degree . You have been published

12:48

in a range of academic journals

12:51

as well as popular media outlets

12:53

like the Washington Post , usa Today

12:55

and Miss Magazine . How do you

12:57

approach writing for different audiences

13:00

? I think graduate students so often are

13:02

thinking solely about , kind of like , getting a first

13:04

author publication . So how do

13:06

you think about doing the academic writing

13:09

, the journal article writing , while also

13:11

writing in the popular

13:14

media , and what role do you see public

13:16

writing playing and advancing your research and

13:18

advocacy goals ?

13:20

Thank you for that . I would say I love writing , and

13:23

one of my primary commitments whether I'm doing

13:25

, you know , research , academic writing , for manuscripts

13:28

, journal articles are for sort of

13:30

you know , public outlets it's

13:32

to really produce work that is exciting

13:34

to read , that's enjoyable , that is

13:36

irrelevant , right , that's culturally informed

13:39

and also that's accessible . I would say

13:41

I want anyone , from , you know

13:43

, the president , to my mother , to my

13:45

grandmother , to cousins back home

13:47

, to be able to read it , and , and I want

13:49

work that every day people can read and actually engage

13:52

and find useful in their lives and

13:54

advocacy . And so one

13:56

of the things that is important for me , I would say , is

13:58

identifying kind of like a coherent message

14:00

that I want to get across , right , and

14:02

why it matters to me and , importantly

14:04

, why it matters to different audiences , whether that

14:06

be policymakers , researchers

14:09

and academicians . Beyond that , though , you

14:11

know black communities in

14:14

the United States and then the Caribbean , why

14:16

it matters to you know organizers

14:18

, advocates , educators and etc

14:20

. So at the early stage of my

14:22

writing journey , I had my husband

14:24

, my friends and my sisters read my work

14:26

and give me general feedback , because I know

14:28

they were going to tell me if something was unclear

14:31

, if there was too much jargon . And during

14:33

this time I also started writing for the University

14:35

of Michigan graduate school blog

14:37

called the Rackham blog , and

14:40

that really taught me how to like communicate concisely

14:42

and effectively without jargon . And

14:45

as I'm revising , actually , my book

14:47

manuscript right now , I'm able to more clearly

14:50

see the impact of this approach to writing

14:52

on my research and my advocacy goals

14:54

. As you asked , and

14:56

I would say , being able to , you know , write publicly

14:59

and to engage various audiences beyond

15:01

just researchers and academics

15:03

is for me it's important

15:05

to elevate the experiences in

15:08

multiple spaces . It's important for me

15:10

to really elevate the health and the

15:12

activism of black communities , particularly black

15:14

girls and women , and to do

15:16

so in ways that challenge the pathologizing

15:18

narratives about their bodies , lives and

15:20

reproduction . That requires both

15:22

mastering and getting a good sense of the

15:24

scientific , the public health you know

15:26

, their sort of academic research literature but also

15:28

getting a sense of what people are saying in

15:31

their own words , right , meeting them on your own

15:33

terms and really understanding how

15:35

they're crafting solution

15:37

, political worlds and visions for themselves every

15:40

day , right . That is often not documented

15:42

, and so part of my goal is to really

15:44

bridge the research with the advocacy

15:46

and policy so that I can make tangible

15:48

their needs to power

15:51

holders that can make decisions about their lives

15:53

.

15:54

Yeah , I think that's one of the things that really

15:56

drew me to you . Like when we first were introduced

15:58

to each other and I was learning about

16:00

your work and kind of how you your

16:02

scholarship , essentially I was like

16:05

, wow , she has cracked the code

16:07

on being an intellectual

16:09

, an academic intellectual . Who is

16:12

, you know , checking off all of these

16:14

, you know very stereotypical , like academic

16:16

goals you know like get in

16:18

the postdocs get in the tenure

16:20

track job , Like you're killing it on that front

16:23

, but you're also able to and

16:25

it's not only able to , but you prioritize

16:27

being able to make sure that your work is

16:29

legible to the public , and I completely

16:32

admire and have the utmost respect

16:35

for that , because , you know , for me one of my

16:37

biggest qualms with academia

16:39

from from jump was this

16:42

it felt like so separate from

16:44

the real world and from real people and their

16:46

real problems , and so I really really

16:48

appreciate whenever I come across a scholar

16:50

, especially a Black or male scholar , who

16:53

is doing the thing like doing

16:55

what they want us to do in the ivory tower

16:57

, but still being really real and being grounded

16:59

and doing the work on

17:01

the ground .

17:01

So I actually want to talk about some of your on the ground

17:04

work .

17:05

You know your public scholar committed to political

17:07

action , so not just writing about

17:09

policy but actually organizing , which

17:11

is another thing that academics love to just like talk

17:13

about it and not be about it right . So

17:16

can you share a little bit more about your role

17:19

in co-leading birth equity and justice

17:21

Massachusetts and the goals of this

17:23

reproductive justice coalition ? And

17:25

I want to add one other question on . There is like how

17:28

are you , how are you juggling the

17:30

organizing with the writing

17:32

, with the teaching ? How are you juggling all of

17:34

those things ? So part of the

17:36

question was share more about your role in leading

17:38

the organization . And then part two was juggling

17:40

them all .

17:41

Absolutely Wow , juggling them all

17:44

. I feel like you and I could like side chat about

17:46

what that juggle looks like on multiple

17:48

levels , and then you just , you know , add motherhood in

17:50

there , right ? So

17:52

, yes , that's an excellent question , and one

17:54

of the things that I would say is

17:56

I really admire

17:59

and appreciate your work as well , and so

18:01

, you know , it's lovely to kind of , it's

18:04

lovely to kind of see this

18:06

generation of people who are in

18:08

academia really trying to bridge the sort of public

18:10

scholarship work with academic

18:12

research and the advocacy

18:14

work with public impact works like this . So

18:16

I see you , dr Cola , do your

18:18

thing , and it's wonderful to be in community

18:20

with you while doing it and

18:23

so , so , yeah , so , birth equity

18:26

and justice Massachusetts . I co-lead

18:28

with my wonderful organizer

18:30

, co-organizer , yamina Romulus , and

18:33

the goal of Benjamin is really

18:35

to expand

18:38

inclusive tables of political leadership

18:40

around reproductive justice in Massachusetts

18:43

, the Commonwealth , and

18:45

it's a black woman led RJ coalition that

18:47

advances maternal health equity

18:49

, reproductive health equity and policy and

18:51

really aims to improve the health outcomes of

18:53

black and brown birthing people through

18:56

, I would say , collaboration , right

18:58

Through a multi-sectoral

19:00

and interdisciplinary approach . And why

19:02

is that important ? Well , we're a

19:04

body of clinicians , researchers

19:07

, community leaders , faith

19:09

leaders , advocates , policy

19:13

advocates and birthing people

19:15

and part of what

19:17

drew us to this work . So , so

19:19

, benjamin . So , benjamin

19:22

was formed in 2020 , at

19:24

the height of the COVID pandemic , where

19:27

you had , you know , sort of shifting and

19:29

changing hospital policies about , you

19:31

know , birth support , about who could be

19:33

present , and also

19:35

you just had a lot of miscommunication about

19:37

what the sort of regulations and

19:40

practices and rules were that shaped

19:42

the reproductive health and birthing and experiences

19:44

of birthing people within medical institutions

19:47

and hospital settings , and so the

19:49

important role of birth

19:52

workers , of reproductive justice organizers

19:54

and advocates were so central

19:56

to improving the experiences

19:59

at a time when , you know , health

20:01

institutions did not know what to do , and they

20:03

were already pre-existent in the quality . So

20:05

when you added COVID to an already

20:07

, you know , problematic context

20:10

of reproductive health care in the United States , it

20:12

really magnified the issue . So

20:15

Benjamin came in at this time and

20:17

much of what the work is trying to do

20:19

now right is reframe

20:21

and reclaim birth by centering bodily

20:24

autonomy , wellness and joy

20:26

, as well as expanding the priority agendas

20:28

and decision-making spaces to foreground

20:30

the leadership and knowledge of black and brown people . Black

20:33

women have been leading this work forever

20:35

, but oftentimes it's white women's leadership

20:37

that's prioritized , and

20:41

even still there's a lot of clinical research and

20:44

academic work that

20:46

are about reproductive

20:49

health and birthing that often

20:51

isn't centered around the actual lived experiences

20:53

of black birthing people , and so part

20:55

of what we wanted to do was to really find

20:57

ways to develop these evidence-based

20:59

practices and interventions

21:02

that shape the quality

21:04

of care that's distributed

21:06

within and beyond medical institutions

21:09

. So that's what we do with Benjamin

21:11

.

21:12

Nice , I love that . So

21:15

I now want to talk about kind

21:17

of going back to your academic work

21:19

. We're , you know , flip-flopping . He's

21:21

talking about organizing , talking about academic

21:24

work , back and forth . What motivated

21:27

you to pursue a career

21:29

in academia ? I feel like we've talked

21:31

about the research component

21:33

, you know , but there are plenty of people who

21:35

, you know , conduct research but don't end

21:38

up teaching . So why teach

21:40

? What was ? Yeah , why teach ?

21:43

Right , and what motivated me to pursue a career in academia

21:46

? Yeah , what do I think about the moments

21:48

that were most like intellectually stimulating

21:50

for me in college and grad school ? They

21:52

were the times that set my soul on

21:55

fire . It was being in classes where professors

21:57

made academic work exciting

21:59

, who challenged us , who

22:01

expanded , who could be a knowledge producer

22:03

and who made connections between

22:06

rigorous intellectual work and

22:08

everyday lived experiences Right

22:10

, and in fact , I've challenged these divisions as

22:12

well and I wanted to be that . That

22:14

really excited me , and so

22:16

, as a professor today , I'm like I

22:18

do , I really aim to do that , but also

22:20

I aim to make connections between everyday life

22:23

and like social movements

22:25

and political visions , and I wanted

22:27

to have students see themselves in the work

22:29

right and to see real

22:31

life , knowledge and action

22:33

and movement building action . And so

22:36

the huge part of teaching

22:38

for me is really those

22:40

priorities and also to allow them

22:42

to similarly set their soul on

22:45

fire by engaging a piece , a piece

22:47

of text or creating a project

22:49

that allows them to put in action what they've been working

22:51

or connecting , you know , these

22:53

sort of high level theoretical

22:56

works with some concrete action

22:58

in a grassroots context or in the context of

23:00

their campus . And so that that

23:02

really is what motivates me to

23:05

build a learning and classroom environment

23:07

where we can literally connect these

23:09

important intellectual you know

23:11

concerns to everyday

23:13

and urgent ethical , political

23:16

and social issues .

23:17

Yeah , love it , love . I know , I

23:20

know you're I don't know if they call it at Amherst

23:22

but I know your evaluation scores are

23:24

through the roof because you just seem like a

23:26

very relatable instructor

23:30

and professor and that is so rare

23:32

and so valued in the academy . So

23:34

kudos to you for doing the important

23:36

work of educating our

23:39

students , the next generation .

23:41

And I hope the evaluation scores are through

23:43

the roof . We don't know .

23:46

They are . I know they are . You

23:48

know as an instructor

23:50

and as someone who cares about

23:53

how they are educating their

23:55

scholars . I'm curious what are some of

23:57

the biggest challenges that you see

23:59

in the field of American studies and black

24:01

studies ? You know , especially

24:03

in light of your very

24:05

much on the ground research and advocacy

24:08

work , as well as you know changing

24:10

federal and state policies around

24:13

how we educate about American

24:15

history , about black studies , how

24:17

you envision those fields

24:20

evolving in the coming years and what role

24:22

do you see yourself playing in those developments

24:24

?

24:26

Yeah , that's a great question

24:28

. I mean it really takes the . It's a big

24:30

question and so important when we consider the

24:32

significance of like knowledge production and

24:35

responding to these urgent political and social

24:37

issues and I would say one of the biggest

24:39

there , I think there are . There are multiple challenges

24:43

and avenues and opportunities to to engage

24:45

this . One of the biggest challenges that I

24:47

see is I'm finding ways

24:49

to amplify the sort of primary , primarily

24:52

theoretical literature on like

24:54

systemic racism or

24:57

gender and sexuality , or like race

24:59

and racial hierarchization . I

25:02

think one of the one way that I see

25:04

things being done is like

25:06

around me , like when I see , like my peers

25:09

or like friends who recently graduated

25:11

graduate school and you know I

25:13

think the future is here , and when I see my colleagues

25:15

and , like you know , other sister

25:17

scholars also , I know that the future is here . I

25:20

think what I would see as my role in that is really

25:22

collaborating and building

25:24

communities together , intellectual communities

25:26

and otherwise , where we can both create

25:29

the spaces that we want to see intellectually , where

25:31

we can , you know , create lecture series that are

25:33

like working groups or workshops that allow us

25:35

to build cross institutional relationships and

25:38

really explode these disciplinary boundaries

25:40

because of work on systemic

25:42

racism , work on health equity , work

25:44

on reproductive justice , work on gender

25:47

and sexual queer politics , work

25:49

on race , is going to require

25:51

that we explore these , and I mean that's

25:53

what we've been always doing is exploring , exploding

25:56

these disciplinary boundaries so that we can more

25:59

better , so that

26:01

we can facilitate better engagement

26:03

in an interdisciplinary lens

26:05

to the to divide sort of the solution

26:08

and or responses to

26:10

, to these ever present issues

26:12

that shape our lives .

26:15

Yeah , and I'm so excited to be doing that

26:17

work with you , partially or

26:19

in one way , through the Health Equity

26:21

Podcast . You know we've got myself a historian

26:23

, a medical historian , and yourself

26:25

a medical humanist coming

26:27

together and amplifying the stories and

26:30

the voices of folks who are doing really

26:32

groundbreaking and important

26:34

activism and organizing around

26:36

a variety of health disparity

26:39

issues , health equity issues that are plating

26:41

the black community . So I'm glad

26:43

to be in your circle helping

26:46

to start to build you know , sorry

26:48

, not to build to break down those disciplinary

26:50

boundaries and silos that often

26:53

keep us disconnected from one another , absolutely

26:56

. So , as we start to

26:58

wind down , we have two questions that we ask all

27:00

of our guests on the CohortSysSys Podcast

27:02

, and they are essentially a way for you to reflect

27:04

on your doctoral journey . And so

27:06

the first question is what is one

27:08

thing , if anything , that you would do

27:10

differently if you had to do your doctoral

27:13

degree all over again ? For some strange reason

27:15

, you have to do it again what's something that you

27:17

would do differently ?

27:18

The strange reason , I'm just just on strange reason . If

27:20

I had to do it again , one

27:23

of the things I would have done differently is probably

27:25

not believe the

27:28

deficit narrative sooner

27:30

, so that I can

27:32

have more mental

27:34

space , capacity

27:37

and room to

27:40

just create and to just

27:42

be early

27:44

on in the graduate trajectory . And

27:47

what I mean by that , by the deficit

27:49

narrative , I feel like so many times

27:52

you're told you know

27:54

you're battling imposter syndrome or

27:56

you're , you know , battling thoughts or grappling

27:58

with thoughts about . You know you're not good enough or

28:01

you need to read like 500 more

28:03

like books and articles to feel like you can

28:05

say , like one claim or one statement , or

28:07

you have an encounter or an engagement

28:09

with you know someone

28:11

within the space that makes you , you

28:13

know , doubt the quality or impact of

28:15

your work or the significance of your state

28:18

, the stakes and claims of your research and intervention

28:20

. And I generally had a supportive experience

28:23

and I've

28:25

also seen moments where experiences

28:28

that I or my other you know , peers or

28:30

friends had that you know that really

28:33

made it hard to just create and

28:35

produce the great , great , brilliant work

28:37

that they were not only selected

28:39

to produce but also that they like

28:41

, that they have full capacity and brilliance

28:44

to be able to produce . And

28:46

so I think that deficit narrative , I think I would just push

28:48

back against that sooner , or

28:51

before defending my doctoral , before

28:56

defending that , these , before

28:58

defending the dissertation , and even before

29:00

sort of defending the , the prospectus

29:02

, right like just early on , just like engage

29:05

, be present

29:07

in the work and you know and not believe

29:09

what academia tells you about

29:11

yourself . Yeah

29:14

, that's what I would . That's certainly what I would have changed

29:16

.

29:18

Yeah , I'm glad you brought that up , because I feel

29:20

like there's a Misconception

29:22

and I'm also reflecting on my own

29:24

personal experience . There's like a misconception

29:26

between being academically prepared

29:29

for graduate school . I felt like I was very academically

29:31

prepared . I had also done , you know , summer

29:33

research programs and tons of research experience

29:35

. I knew exactly what I was gonna write

29:37

my dissertation on , like from day one . But

29:40

there's a completely different work of like

29:42

being emotionally and

29:44

psychologically prepared

29:47

and a lot of that is like having

29:49

the confidence and the self-esteem

29:52

and the Self-affirming language

29:54

in order to hype yourself up every

29:57

day , every semester , and

29:59

to not like let those Sentiments

30:02

about , like you know , maybe I

30:05

was , no , I'm not , maybe I'm not supposed

30:07

to be here , or like maybe this was an accident

30:09

, like to not let those thoughts like permeate

30:11

your mind . And I feel like that's

30:13

really the work that you know . When

30:16

I think about , like , what the mission of cohorts is , it's

30:18

not to make people smart , smarter , so I think

30:20

again , it's a doctoral program . Like that's not . That's not

30:22

what we need . Like what we need is to

30:24

be able to affirm and uplift and

30:26

really encourage ourselves that we have

30:29

the mental fortitude and the Self-affirmations

30:32

and the confidence in order to continue persevering

30:34

, to continue doing the amazing work so

30:36

that our brilliant research and brilliant ideas

30:39

come to the fore and really be shared

30:41

in the world .

30:42

So I'm so glad you brought that up , that that's

30:44

good to me as well and and I

30:46

think it's an it you mentioned you describe

30:48

it well like it's also an iterative process

30:50

, right like of redefining

30:53

, of claiming , reclaiming

30:55

and of self-validating , and I think the

30:59

moments that was done so well is when I

31:01

was in community with other people . So I'm so

31:03

glad to see the work that cohorts this is just doing

31:05

to build that intergenerational community

31:07

, because I think that's so crucial .

31:09

Yeah , yes , I love it . So last

31:11

question what is one

31:13

piece of advice that you have for prospective

31:16

students or current black women

31:18

and non-binary doctoral students ? Just

31:20

one last nugget that you want to share for the people .

31:23

That is an excellent question and I think

31:25

the one advice that there's

31:27

so much right , but I think the one

31:29

advice that I think is incredibly , that was incredibly

31:32

salient for me

31:34

, was To quiet

31:37

the noise . Build your

31:39

team of cheerleaders and

31:42

that's not only professors , that's professors , educators

31:44

, and that's also your like friends . That's

31:46

also people that you meet at conferences . That's

31:48

people that you are . They're going to be a

31:50

part of your network expansion

31:52

at different stages of the career . Know

31:56

that and knowing that that community

31:58

, right , like that community , is going to

32:00

help you get through the

32:03

moments where it feels

32:05

really difficult , right , that community is gonna help

32:07

you build perseverance and endurance and you're

32:09

going to contribute that community , contribute

32:11

to that community as well for other people . So I

32:13

think for me , community was everything

32:15

and in a in , in

32:18

a profession like ours that prioritizes

32:20

, like the isolationist

32:22

experience of knowledge production and being

32:25

the only one in this Department

32:28

or in this institution or in this field

32:30

with this only idea that only you

32:32

crafted ever , I

32:34

think community is so central , yeah

32:39

, and it's life-giving yes

32:41

, no , you're , you're so right .

32:43

I'm glad you contrasted it against like the traditional

32:45

frameworks of Individuality

32:48

that are , you know , really a product of white

32:51

supremacy in academia , and

32:53

I love that we are Not

32:55

just us , but a lot of people are turning

32:57

that upside down and saying like , no , we

33:00

don't care about only being the first

33:02

author on all these publications like we

33:04

don't we don't care about all these accolades Like we

33:06

want to do this work in community with other people

33:08

. So thank you so much , dr Dolly

33:11

, for being with us on the cohort sisters

33:13

podcast . I'm excited to continue following

33:15

along your work and having the

33:17

opportunity to share your amazing

33:20

, amazing work and the way that you bridge research

33:22

and advocacy and activism and

33:25

teaching to the

33:27

public to the public and to your students

33:29

. So thanks again for being on the podcast .

33:31

Thank you so much . It's a pleasure to be here

33:33

. I love the work that you're doing with cohort sisters

33:35

and Please stay tuned

33:38

. Via Instagram , I

33:40

am Jalicia , and also via

33:42

my lab , breha Breha . The Breha

33:44

collective , which is a black feminist reproductive justice

33:46

, equity and HIV . It's activism collective

33:48

, which is a new interdisciplinary lab that

33:50

elevates the political activism

33:53

and experiences in health of Afrodiasporic

33:56

women , girls and gender diverse

33:58

people and our shared and divergent struggles

34:00

against reproductive injustice . Stay

34:02

tuned .

34:03

I Love that . We'll make sure to include

34:05

how to find you and connect and support

34:07

your work in the show notes . Thanks again . Thank

34:20

you again for listening to this week's episode

34:22

of the cohort sisters podcast . If

34:24

you are a black woman interested in joining

34:26

the cohort sisters membership community or

34:29

you're looking for more information on how to

34:31

support or partner with cohort sisters

34:33

, please visit our website at wwwcohortsistascom

34:37

. You can also find us on all

34:39

social media platforms at cohort sisters

34:42

. Don't forget to subscribe to the cohort

34:44

sisters podcast and leave us a quick review

34:46

wherever you're listening . Thank

34:48

you so much for joining us this week and we'll

34:51

catch you in next week's episode .

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