0:13

Welcome to the cohort sisters podcast , where

0:15

we give voice to the stories , struggles

0:18

and successes of black women

0:20

and non binary folks with doctoral

0:22

degrees . I'm your host , dr Yajama

0:24

Cola , today . I'm so thrilled

0:26

to have Dr Jalicia Jolly , an

0:29

assistant professor of American Studies

0:31

and Black Studies at Amherst College

0:33

, joining us today as a PhD

0:35

in American Studies from the University of Michigan

0:38

and a 2022 Ford

0:40

Postdoctoral Fellowship at Yale University

0:42

. Dr Jolly's research focuses

0:45

on black women's health , reproductive

0:47

justice , organizing , intersectionality

0:49

and transnational social movements

0:51

. Her forthcoming book manuscript

0:54

, called Ill Erotics Black

0:56

Caribbean Women and Self-Making in the

0:58

Time of HIV Aids , offers

1:00

a compelling ethnography of young

1:02

black Jamaican women living with HIV

1:05

and their confrontations with reproductive

1:07

violence and inequality in neocolonial

1:10

Jamaica . Dr Jolly's work goes

1:12

way beyond academia , as she actively

1:14

engages in community interventions

1:17

and co-leads Birth Equity and

1:19

Justice Massachusetts , a reproductive

1:21

justice coalition . She's

1:23

also the co-host of the Health Equity podcast

1:26

alongside myself , and it is

1:28

my complete honor to have Dr Jolly

1:30

on the cohort sisters podcast with us today .

1:32

It is a pleasure to be here . Thank you so much for

1:35

that warm and jolly welcome .

1:37

Well , thank you again . Let's just

1:39

start off . I feel like you know , I know you well

1:41

, but the people don't know about you

1:44

. So tell us a little bit about yourself . Where

1:46

are you from , when do you live

1:48

now and what are some of the things that you like

1:50

to do when you're not busy working

1:52

on your book , working on your research , organizing

1:55

or teaching ? What are some of the things that you like

1:57

to do outside ?

1:58

of all of that . I love this

2:00

question . Thank you for starting with it . So

2:03

my name is Jalicia Jolly . I

2:05

am from Kingston , jamaica . I grew

2:07

up in Brooklyn , new York , and I'm currently

2:09

based in Western Massachusetts at

2:11

Amherst , where I'm working at Amherst College

2:14

. So when I am not

2:16

working , one of the things

2:18

that I love to do is traveling

2:20

. I love traveling with my family , with friends

2:22

. I absolutely love

2:24

exploring the world through the eyes of my

2:26

almost two and a half year old . I

2:29

love spoken word , poetry , love writing it

2:31

, love , you know , witnessing it and seeing

2:34

folks . I love perform it and

2:36

I love to eat . You know I might not be the best cook

2:38

, but I surely am a wonderful

2:41

eater .

2:43

I , you know , did not know about

2:45

the spoken word . I feel like I feel like we've

2:47

known each other for a little bit and you

2:49

had just posted last week

2:52

or the week before about doing spoken

2:54

word in was it Paris

2:56

? I was like what in the world

2:58

, how did you get

3:01

into spoken word ?

3:04

Yes , yes , so I

3:06

. So as a teenager in

3:09

Brooklyn , I participated in HIV

3:11

organization . It was arts and activism

3:13

and it was my first time sort of seeing

3:15

arts and activism together was arts activist

3:17

organization that brought together

3:20

dancers , poets , you know , theater

3:22

folks , storytellers

3:24

, rappers and other artists

3:27

. They brought us together to

3:29

educate and share information to the

3:31

, to black and brown youth throughout the city

3:33

around HIV and sexual reproductive

3:35

health . And so during

3:38

this time we would have community events , sort

3:41

of outreach activities

3:43

, and we would have community events

3:45

and outreach activities that brought us together

3:47

to share information about , you know , sexual health

3:50

, ways to educate yourself , protect

3:52

yourself , but also ways to kind of communicate

3:54

with various generations of people

3:56

about safe sex

3:58

, well-being and just

4:01

reproductive and sexual health on

4:03

a broader level . And what we

4:05

would do is come together and have open mics

4:07

. We would have open mics at cafes

4:09

and other , you know , public venues and spaces

4:12

throughout Brooklyn . And

4:14

that's really where I learned

4:16

about my love for the pen

4:19

, about writing and really spoken

4:21

word . Poetry set my soul on fire .

4:24

I love that . I love that . I

4:26

am curious is there anything else that

4:28

you know happened in your childhood

4:30

, or any other memories that you

4:32

can recall that kind of shaped

4:35

the academic , the organizer

4:37

, the activists , the artists that you

4:39

are today , aside from that

4:41

program that you did when you were in high school ?

4:43

Wow , Dr

4:46

Kohla , that was an excellent question . You

4:48

should do like should be an oral historian .

4:50

You're good at this . I may or may not be

4:52

one .

4:54

You may , that is true . Excuse me for

4:56

not assuming that you already are . Yeah

4:58

, so that's an expansive

5:00

question . I think what I will say is

5:03

the first thing that I would say is I

5:06

think I inherited a legacy

5:09

of health organizing and equity work

5:11

, and I inherited from my

5:14

mom , who was a union organizer with

5:16

11.99 and a home health care worker

5:18

in New York City . I also inherited

5:21

it from my grandmother , who was also a union

5:23

organizer and advocate when

5:25

she first came to this country in the 80s , up until

5:27

her death really . In addition to this legacy

5:29

of health activism , I think I also inherited

5:31

a legacy of health inequality

5:34

, and it was important to

5:36

see those both , those two intention and in tandem

5:39

. So my grandmother experienced forced sterilization

5:41

and had a poor access to

5:43

prenatal care and

5:45

which led to the death of my

5:48

mother's infant brother . And so just

5:50

kind of having that context for

5:52

how I come into my

5:54

work , my research , my and

5:57

my love for spoken word and documenting

5:59

experiences and sharing them with

6:01

the world , that is an

6:03

important backdrop that I think shapes my work .

6:06

So I would love to know if

6:08

there was anything else about either your childhood

6:10

or your educational experience that led

6:12

you to end up studying

6:14

American studies . And the reason I'm asking that

6:17

is because I feel like American studies is one

6:19

of those fields that it's an interdisciplinary field

6:21

. It's kind of like nebulous and it's understanding

6:24

. Is it government , is it geography , is

6:26

it US history ? Like what is it

6:28

? So I would love to know how you ended

6:31

up like focusing your work or

6:33

like centering your work in that discipline

6:35

.

6:37

Right , right . So that's an excellent question

6:39

and I think I shared exactly

6:42

what you described in terms of trying to figure out what

6:44

exactly is this understanding of American studies

6:46

. When I was a college student , applying

6:48

to graduate school , applied to black studies programs

6:51

, women's gender and sexuality studies programs , and

6:54

then American studies was like my

6:56

third option because I was still trying

6:58

to figure out and grapple with what exactly it means

7:00

. I have a much firmer understanding now that I'm

7:02

teaching it , in that , now that

7:04

I went to a graduate program American Studies

7:06

at the University of Michigan , which is called American

7:08

Culture and it's conceived as a transnational

7:11

diasporic program , which

7:13

is the best configuration for

7:15

a transnational scholar

7:17

like myself , the educational experiences

7:20

that really shaped my understanding

7:22

of American studies and my desire to

7:24

sort of study and teach in it was

7:26

really having the experience that I did

7:28

in graduate

7:30

school as well as , I would say , undergrad

7:33

, when I took a look at my transcript

7:35

and I realized that a lot of the courses that I took

7:37

in black studies and women's gender sexuality studies

7:39

actually cross-listed with American

7:41

studies . But it was really in graduate school that gave

7:43

me a firmer understanding and

7:45

I'm so glad

7:48

to be kind of wedged in between , I'm joined in American

7:50

Studies and black studies , like being able to kind of understand

7:54

my positionality as

7:56

a black woman professor in both departments

7:58

is also significant to my understanding

8:00

of kind of how I come to both fields differently

8:03

. But I would say my American Studies

8:05

really for

8:07

me is a transnational understanding of the

8:09

people and cultures and experiences

8:12

of not only the Americas but also

8:14

broader , even broader , in the transnational

8:17

and diasporic sense For me . I think what

8:19

really motivated me to study American

8:21

Studies was to see the ways that

8:23

leading scholars in

8:26

American Studies were really complicating

8:29

this fraught and contradictory space

8:31

of the United States and these conceptions

8:33

of freedom , citizenship and democracy

8:36

and really turning those on its head by interrogating

8:39

the experiences of black and brown

8:41

folk , of BIPOC communities , really

8:43

bringing imperialism and colonialism

8:46

into the context and to the fore , to really

8:48

unpack . Well , what exactly does it mean to

8:50

study Americas and really explore

8:52

the idea that studying American Studies is

8:54

studying the United States but

8:57

really thinking about how we can prioritize hemispheric

9:00

and global perspectives of the Americas and

9:02

beyond . And so that

9:04

was really important to me , both as a

9:07

transnational scholars I mentioned , and also

9:09

as an immigrant , as a black

9:11

immigrant , as a black girl immigrant growing

9:13

up at this cross-section between US

9:16

imperialism and British colonialism

9:18

. It was really important to really

9:21

see myself in

9:23

a context and a field that that prioritized

9:25

that and , of course , bringing that together

9:27

with my black Studies lens really allowed

9:29

me to really think about how political

9:32

movements and liberation struggles varied

9:35

and were similar , intersected , across different

9:37

cultural contexts , time periods and geographic

9:39

regions . So that really was the

9:41

the impetus behind why I wanted

9:43

to study American Studies and especially why

9:45

I'm so delighted to be joined

9:48

also in black Studies .

9:50

So I think we have a good understanding of your

9:53

educational interests and background . We

9:55

know about your long lineage , proud

9:57

lineage , of being an organizer

9:59

and being really interested

10:01

and passionate about reproductive justice

10:03

. We don't know anything yet about how you ended up in a doctoral

10:06

degree or pursuing a doctoral program

10:08

, so can you tell us a little bit about your journey

10:10

towards entering into graduate school

10:12

?

10:13

Thank you for this question . It's a good one I

10:15

had . So the Melon Maze undergraduate

10:18

fellowship program was a crucial

10:20

aspect of my journey to

10:23

a doctoral degree . So the Melon Maze

10:25

undergraduate fellowship program is a huge equity-based

10:27

initiative that prioritizes providing structures

10:30

of support , resources and mentorship

10:32

to underrepresented students

10:34

who want to enter the

10:37

academia and be professors , to

10:40

underrepresented students who want to enter the professory

10:43

, whichever way you want to use for that . And

10:47

I participated in that program

10:49

in my rising junior year and

10:52

it , you know it changed my life . It was . It

10:54

really expanded my understanding of research

10:57

, of knowledge production , and it really demystified

11:00

what exactly academia

11:03

is . It demystified what research

11:05

and knowledge production and intellectual

11:07

work could do on a broader sense

11:10

. Right , and so that was a

11:12

crucial program . And then they

11:14

also provide support for you when you're applying to graduate

11:16

school . So I had not

11:18

just sort of , you know , resources and support , but

11:20

also there's a crucial network of

11:23

alumni and

11:25

of kind of a few more senior

11:27

college students who you know , did anything

11:30

from share their applications , who

11:32

just talked to me about the process and really

11:34

helped me understand exactly how to

11:36

approach this , like with being

11:38

informed and being intentional about

11:40

where I wanted to select where I wanted

11:42

to live , how I wanted to build an intellectual

11:45

community , not only during

11:47

undergrad but also beyond it . So

11:49

that program was instrumental . There was also another program

11:51

called the Institute for the Recruitment of Teachers

11:53

, irt , which also

11:56

provided crucial support for people applying

11:58

to graduate school . And they

12:01

and

12:03

IRT provided support to

12:05

allow me to apply and complete

12:07

my applications , matched me with a mentor

12:09

who looked , provided feedback on

12:11

my research and personal statement . So

12:14

both Mellon and MMUF

12:16

and IRT were instrumental

12:18

in kind of just facilitating

12:21

the process for me at a time where you know it's senior

12:23

year , you're overwhelmed , you're doing so

12:25

much , you're also still trying to like be a whole

12:28

human time with your friends

12:30

before you all disseminate across the

12:32

world , the globe . And

12:34

so that was kind of how I entered and

12:36

and that's and that's

12:38

how I entered and got my footing in doctoral programs

12:40

.

12:42

Nice . So I now want to talk about

12:44

the impact of your work after you completed

12:46

your doctoral degree . You have been published

12:48

in a range of academic journals

12:51

as well as popular media outlets

12:53

like the Washington Post , usa Today

12:55

and Miss Magazine . How do you

12:57

approach writing for different audiences

13:00

? I think graduate students so often are

13:02

thinking solely about , kind of like , getting a first

13:04

author publication . So how do

13:06

you think about doing the academic writing

13:09

, the journal article writing , while also

13:11

writing in the popular

13:14

media , and what role do you see public

13:16

writing playing and advancing your research and

13:18

advocacy goals ?

13:20

Thank you for that . I would say I love writing , and

13:23

one of my primary commitments whether I'm doing

13:25

, you know , research , academic writing , for manuscripts

13:28

, journal articles are for sort of

13:30

you know , public outlets it's

13:32

to really produce work that is exciting

13:34

to read , that's enjoyable , that is

13:36

irrelevant , right , that's culturally informed

13:39

and also that's accessible . I would say

13:41

I want anyone , from , you know

13:43

, the president , to my mother , to my

13:45

grandmother , to cousins back home

13:47

, to be able to read it , and , and I want

13:49

work that every day people can read and actually engage

13:52

and find useful in their lives and

13:54

advocacy . And so one

13:56

of the things that is important for me , I would say , is

13:58

identifying kind of like a coherent message

14:00

that I want to get across , right , and

14:02

why it matters to me and , importantly

14:04

, why it matters to different audiences , whether that

14:06

be policymakers , researchers

14:09

and academicians . Beyond that , though , you

14:11

know black communities in

14:14

the United States and then the Caribbean , why

14:16

it matters to you know organizers

14:18

, advocates , educators and etc

14:20

. So at the early stage of my

14:22

writing journey , I had my husband

14:24

, my friends and my sisters read my work

14:26

and give me general feedback , because I know

14:28

they were going to tell me if something was unclear

14:31

, if there was too much jargon . And during

14:33

this time I also started writing for the University

14:35

of Michigan graduate school blog

14:37

called the Rackham blog , and

14:40

that really taught me how to like communicate concisely

14:42

and effectively without jargon . And

14:45

as I'm revising , actually , my book

14:47

manuscript right now , I'm able to more clearly

14:50

see the impact of this approach to writing

14:52

on my research and my advocacy goals

14:54

. As you asked , and

14:56

I would say , being able to , you know , write publicly

14:59

and to engage various audiences beyond

15:01

just researchers and academics

15:03

is for me it's important

15:05

to elevate the experiences in

15:08

multiple spaces . It's important for me

15:10

to really elevate the health and the

15:12

activism of black communities , particularly black

15:14

girls and women , and to do

15:16

so in ways that challenge the pathologizing

15:18

narratives about their bodies , lives and

15:20

reproduction . That requires both

15:22

mastering and getting a good sense of the

15:24

scientific , the public health you know

15:26

, their sort of academic research literature but also

15:28

getting a sense of what people are saying in

15:31

their own words , right , meeting them on your own

15:33

terms and really understanding how

15:35

they're crafting solution

15:37

, political worlds and visions for themselves every

15:40

day , right . That is often not documented

15:42

, and so part of my goal is to really

15:44

bridge the research with the advocacy

15:46

and policy so that I can make tangible

15:48

their needs to power

15:51

holders that can make decisions about their lives

15:53

.

15:54

Yeah , I think that's one of the things that really

15:56

drew me to you . Like when we first were introduced

15:58

to each other and I was learning about

16:00

your work and kind of how you your

16:02

scholarship , essentially I was like

16:05

, wow , she has cracked the code

16:07

on being an intellectual

16:09

, an academic intellectual . Who is

16:12

, you know , checking off all of these

16:14

, you know very stereotypical , like academic

16:16

goals you know like get in

16:18

the postdocs get in the tenure

16:20

track job , Like you're killing it on that front

16:23

, but you're also able to and

16:25

it's not only able to , but you prioritize

16:27

being able to make sure that your work is

16:29

legible to the public , and I completely

16:32

admire and have the utmost respect

16:35

for that , because , you know , for me one of my

16:37

biggest qualms with academia

16:39

from from jump was this

16:42

it felt like so separate from

16:44

the real world and from real people and their

16:46

real problems , and so I really really

16:48

appreciate whenever I come across a scholar

16:50

, especially a Black or male scholar , who

16:53

is doing the thing like doing

16:55

what they want us to do in the ivory tower

16:57

, but still being really real and being grounded

16:59

and doing the work on

17:01

the ground .

17:01

So I actually want to talk about some of your on the ground

17:04

work .

17:05

You know your public scholar committed to political

17:07

action , so not just writing about

17:09

policy but actually organizing , which

17:11

is another thing that academics love to just like talk

17:13

about it and not be about it right . So

17:16

can you share a little bit more about your role

17:19

in co-leading birth equity and justice

17:21

Massachusetts and the goals of this

17:23

reproductive justice coalition ? And

17:25

I want to add one other question on . There is like how

17:28

are you , how are you juggling the

17:30

organizing with the writing

17:32

, with the teaching ? How are you juggling all of

17:34

those things ? So part of the

17:36

question was share more about your role in leading

17:38

the organization . And then part two was juggling

17:40

them all .

17:41

Absolutely Wow , juggling them all

17:44

. I feel like you and I could like side chat about

17:46

what that juggle looks like on multiple

17:48

levels , and then you just , you know , add motherhood in

17:50

there , right ? So

17:52

, yes , that's an excellent question , and one

17:54

of the things that I would say is

17:56

I really admire

17:59

and appreciate your work as well , and so

18:01

, you know , it's lovely to kind of , it's

18:04

lovely to kind of see this

18:06

generation of people who are in

18:08

academia really trying to bridge the sort of public

18:10

scholarship work with academic

18:12

research and the advocacy

18:14

work with public impact works like this . So

18:16

I see you , dr Cola , do your

18:18

thing , and it's wonderful to be in community

18:20

with you while doing it and

18:23

so , so , yeah , so , birth equity

18:26

and justice Massachusetts . I co-lead

18:28

with my wonderful organizer

18:30

, co-organizer , yamina Romulus , and

18:33

the goal of Benjamin is really

18:35

to expand

18:38

inclusive tables of political leadership

18:40

around reproductive justice in Massachusetts

18:43

, the Commonwealth , and

18:45

it's a black woman led RJ coalition that

18:47

advances maternal health equity

18:49

, reproductive health equity and policy and

18:51

really aims to improve the health outcomes of

18:53

black and brown birthing people through

18:56

, I would say , collaboration , right

18:58

Through a multi-sectoral

19:00

and interdisciplinary approach . And why

19:02

is that important ? Well , we're a

19:04

body of clinicians , researchers

19:07

, community leaders , faith

19:09

leaders , advocates , policy

19:13

advocates and birthing people

19:15

and part of what

19:17

drew us to this work . So , so

19:19

, benjamin . So , benjamin

19:22

was formed in 2020 , at

19:24

the height of the COVID pandemic , where

19:27

you had , you know , sort of shifting and

19:29

changing hospital policies about , you

19:31

know , birth support , about who could be

19:33

present , and also

19:35

you just had a lot of miscommunication about

19:37

what the sort of regulations and

19:40

practices and rules were that shaped

19:42

the reproductive health and birthing and experiences

19:44

of birthing people within medical institutions

19:47

and hospital settings , and so the

19:49

important role of birth

19:52

workers , of reproductive justice organizers

19:54

and advocates were so central

19:56

to improving the experiences

19:59

at a time when , you know , health

20:01

institutions did not know what to do , and they

20:03

were already pre-existent in the quality . So

20:05

when you added COVID to an already

20:07

, you know , problematic context

20:10

of reproductive health care in the United States , it

20:12

really magnified the issue . So

20:15

Benjamin came in at this time and

20:17

much of what the work is trying to do

20:19

now right is reframe

20:21

and reclaim birth by centering bodily

20:24

autonomy , wellness and joy

20:26

, as well as expanding the priority agendas

20:28

and decision-making spaces to foreground

20:30

the leadership and knowledge of black and brown people . Black

20:33

women have been leading this work forever

20:35

, but oftentimes it's white women's leadership

20:37

that's prioritized , and

20:41

even still there's a lot of clinical research and

20:44

academic work that

20:46

are about reproductive

20:49

health and birthing that often

20:51

isn't centered around the actual lived experiences

20:53

of black birthing people , and so part

20:55

of what we wanted to do was to really find

20:57

ways to develop these evidence-based

20:59

practices and interventions

21:02

that shape the quality

21:04

of care that's distributed

21:06

within and beyond medical institutions

21:09

. So that's what we do with Benjamin

21:11

.

21:12

Nice , I love that . So

21:15

I now want to talk about kind

21:17

of going back to your academic work

21:19

. We're , you know , flip-flopping . He's

21:21

talking about organizing , talking about academic

21:24

work , back and forth . What motivated

21:27

you to pursue a career

21:29

in academia ? I feel like we've talked

21:31

about the research component

21:33

, you know , but there are plenty of people who

21:35

, you know , conduct research but don't end

21:38

up teaching . So why teach

21:40

? What was ? Yeah , why teach ?

21:43

Right , and what motivated me to pursue a career in academia

21:46

? Yeah , what do I think about the moments

21:48

that were most like intellectually stimulating

21:50

for me in college and grad school ? They

21:52

were the times that set my soul on

21:55

fire . It was being in classes where professors

21:57

made academic work exciting

21:59

, who challenged us , who

22:01

expanded , who could be a knowledge producer

22:03

and who made connections between

22:06

rigorous intellectual work and

22:08

everyday lived experiences Right

22:10

, and in fact , I've challenged these divisions as

22:12

well and I wanted to be that . That

22:14

really excited me , and so

22:16

, as a professor today , I'm like I

22:18

do , I really aim to do that , but also

22:20

I aim to make connections between everyday life

22:23

and like social movements

22:25

and political visions , and I wanted

22:27

to have students see themselves in the work

22:29

right and to see real

22:31

life , knowledge and action

22:33

and movement building action . And so

22:36

the huge part of teaching

22:38

for me is really those

22:40

priorities and also to allow them

22:42

to similarly set their soul on

22:45

fire by engaging a piece , a piece

22:47

of text or creating a project

22:49

that allows them to put in action what they've been working

22:51

or connecting , you know , these

22:53

sort of high level theoretical

22:56

works with some concrete action

22:58

in a grassroots context or in the context of

23:00

their campus . And so that that

23:02

really is what motivates me to

23:05

build a learning and classroom environment

23:07

where we can literally connect these

23:09

important intellectual you know

23:11

concerns to everyday

23:13

and urgent ethical , political

23:16

and social issues .

23:17

Yeah , love it , love . I know , I

23:20

know you're I don't know if they call it at Amherst

23:22

but I know your evaluation scores are

23:24

through the roof because you just seem like a

23:26

very relatable instructor

23:30

and professor and that is so rare

23:32

and so valued in the academy . So

23:34

kudos to you for doing the important

23:36

work of educating our

23:39

students , the next generation .

23:41

And I hope the evaluation scores are through

23:43

the roof . We don't know .

23:46

They are . I know they are . You

23:48

know as an instructor

23:50

and as someone who cares about

23:53

how they are educating their

23:55

scholars . I'm curious what are some of

23:57

the biggest challenges that you see

23:59

in the field of American studies and black

24:01

studies ? You know , especially

24:03

in light of your very

24:05

much on the ground research and advocacy

24:08

work , as well as you know changing

24:10

federal and state policies around

24:13

how we educate about American

24:15

history , about black studies , how

24:17

you envision those fields

24:20

evolving in the coming years and what role

24:22

do you see yourself playing in those developments

24:24

?

24:26

Yeah , that's a great question

24:28

. I mean it really takes the . It's a big

24:30

question and so important when we consider the

24:32

significance of like knowledge production and

24:35

responding to these urgent political and social

24:37

issues and I would say one of the biggest

24:39

there , I think there are . There are multiple challenges

24:43

and avenues and opportunities to to engage

24:45

this . One of the biggest challenges that I

24:47

see is I'm finding ways

24:49

to amplify the sort of primary , primarily

24:52

theoretical literature on like

24:54

systemic racism or

24:57

gender and sexuality , or like race

24:59

and racial hierarchization . I

25:02

think one of the one way that I see

25:04

things being done is like

25:06

around me , like when I see , like my peers

25:09

or like friends who recently graduated

25:11

graduate school and you know I

25:13

think the future is here , and when I see my colleagues

25:15

and , like you know , other sister

25:17

scholars also , I know that the future is here . I

25:20

think what I would see as my role in that is really

25:22

collaborating and building

25:24

communities together , intellectual communities

25:26

and otherwise , where we can both create

25:29

the spaces that we want to see intellectually , where

25:31

we can , you know , create lecture series that are

25:33

like working groups or workshops that allow us

25:35

to build cross institutional relationships and

25:38

really explode these disciplinary boundaries

25:40

because of work on systemic

25:42

racism , work on health equity , work

25:44

on reproductive justice , work on gender

25:47

and sexual queer politics , work

25:49

on race , is going to require

25:51

that we explore these , and I mean that's

25:53

what we've been always doing is exploring , exploding

25:56

these disciplinary boundaries so that we can more

25:59

better , so that

26:01

we can facilitate better engagement

26:03

in an interdisciplinary lens

26:05

to the to divide sort of the solution

26:08

and or responses to

26:10

, to these ever present issues

26:12

that shape our lives .

26:15

Yeah , and I'm so excited to be doing that

26:17

work with you , partially or

26:19

in one way , through the Health Equity

26:21

Podcast . You know we've got myself a historian

26:23

, a medical historian , and yourself

26:25

a medical humanist coming

26:27

together and amplifying the stories and

26:30

the voices of folks who are doing really

26:32

groundbreaking and important

26:34

activism and organizing around

26:36

a variety of health disparity

26:39

issues , health equity issues that are plating

26:41

the black community . So I'm glad

26:43

to be in your circle helping

26:46

to start to build you know , sorry

26:48

, not to build to break down those disciplinary

26:50

boundaries and silos that often

26:53

keep us disconnected from one another , absolutely

26:56

. So , as we start to

26:58

wind down , we have two questions that we ask all

27:00

of our guests on the CohortSysSys Podcast

27:02

, and they are essentially a way for you to reflect

27:04

on your doctoral journey . And so

27:06

the first question is what is one

27:08

thing , if anything , that you would do

27:10

differently if you had to do your doctoral

27:13

degree all over again ? For some strange reason

27:15

, you have to do it again what's something that you

27:17

would do differently ?

27:18

The strange reason , I'm just just on strange reason . If

27:20

I had to do it again , one

27:23

of the things I would have done differently is probably

27:25

not believe the

27:28

deficit narrative sooner

27:30

, so that I can

27:32

have more mental

27:34

space , capacity

27:37

and room to

27:40

just create and to just

27:42

be early

27:44

on in the graduate trajectory . And

27:47

what I mean by that , by the deficit

27:49

narrative , I feel like so many times

27:52

you're told you know

27:54

you're battling imposter syndrome or

27:56

you're , you know , battling thoughts or grappling

27:58

with thoughts about . You know you're not good enough or

28:01

you need to read like 500 more

28:03

like books and articles to feel like you can

28:05

say , like one claim or one statement , or

28:07

you have an encounter or an engagement

28:09

with you know someone

28:11

within the space that makes you , you

28:13

know , doubt the quality or impact of

28:15

your work or the significance of your state

28:18

, the stakes and claims of your research and intervention

28:20

. And I generally had a supportive experience

28:23

and I've

28:25

also seen moments where experiences

28:28

that I or my other you know , peers or

28:30

friends had that you know that really

28:33

made it hard to just create and

28:35

produce the great , great , brilliant work

28:37

that they were not only selected

28:39

to produce but also that they like

28:41

, that they have full capacity and brilliance

28:44

to be able to produce . And

28:46

so I think that deficit narrative , I think I would just push

28:48

back against that sooner , or

28:51

before defending my doctoral , before

28:56

defending that , these , before

28:58

defending the dissertation , and even before

29:00

sort of defending the , the prospectus

29:02

, right like just early on , just like engage

29:05

, be present

29:07

in the work and you know and not believe

29:09

what academia tells you about

29:11

yourself . Yeah

29:14

, that's what I would . That's certainly what I would have changed

29:16

.

29:18

Yeah , I'm glad you brought that up , because I feel

29:20

like there's a Misconception

29:22

and I'm also reflecting on my own

29:24

personal experience . There's like a misconception

29:26

between being academically prepared

29:29

for graduate school . I felt like I was very academically

29:31

prepared . I had also done , you know , summer

29:33

research programs and tons of research experience

29:35

. I knew exactly what I was gonna write

29:37

my dissertation on , like from day one . But

29:40

there's a completely different work of like

29:42

being emotionally and

29:44

psychologically prepared

29:47

and a lot of that is like having

29:49

the confidence and the self-esteem

29:52

and the Self-affirming language

29:54

in order to hype yourself up every

29:57

day , every semester , and

29:59

to not like let those Sentiments

30:02

about , like you know , maybe I

30:05

was , no , I'm not , maybe I'm not supposed

30:07

to be here , or like maybe this was an accident

30:09

, like to not let those thoughts like permeate

30:11

your mind . And I feel like that's

30:13

really the work that you know . When

30:16

I think about , like , what the mission of cohorts is , it's

30:18

not to make people smart , smarter , so I think

30:20

again , it's a doctoral program . Like that's not . That's not

30:22

what we need . Like what we need is to

30:24

be able to affirm and uplift and

30:26

really encourage ourselves that we have

30:29

the mental fortitude and the Self-affirmations

30:32

and the confidence in order to continue persevering

30:34

, to continue doing the amazing work so

30:36

that our brilliant research and brilliant ideas

30:39

come to the fore and really be shared

30:41

in the world .

30:42

So I'm so glad you brought that up , that that's

30:44

good to me as well and and I

30:46

think it's an it you mentioned you describe

30:48

it well like it's also an iterative process

30:50

, right like of redefining

30:53

, of claiming , reclaiming

30:55

and of self-validating , and I think the

30:59

moments that was done so well is when I

31:01

was in community with other people . So I'm so

31:03

glad to see the work that cohorts this is just doing

31:05

to build that intergenerational community

31:07

, because I think that's so crucial .

31:09

Yeah , yes , I love it . So last

31:11

question what is one

31:13

piece of advice that you have for prospective

31:16

students or current black women

31:18

and non-binary doctoral students ? Just

31:20

one last nugget that you want to share for the people .

31:23

That is an excellent question and I think

31:25

the one advice that there's

31:27

so much right , but I think the one

31:29

advice that I think is incredibly , that was incredibly

31:32

salient for me

31:34

, was To quiet

31:37

the noise . Build your

31:39

team of cheerleaders and

31:42

that's not only professors , that's professors , educators

31:44

, and that's also your like friends . That's

31:46

also people that you meet at conferences . That's

31:48

people that you are . They're going to be a

31:50

part of your network expansion

31:52

at different stages of the career . Know

31:56

that and knowing that that community

31:58

, right , like that community , is going to

32:00

help you get through the

32:03

moments where it feels

32:05

really difficult , right , that community is gonna help

32:07

you build perseverance and endurance and you're

32:09

going to contribute that community , contribute

32:11

to that community as well for other people . So I

32:13

think for me , community was everything

32:15

and in a in , in

32:18

a profession like ours that prioritizes

32:20

, like the isolationist

32:22

experience of knowledge production and being

32:25

the only one in this Department

32:28

or in this institution or in this field

32:30

with this only idea that only you

32:32

crafted ever , I

32:34

think community is so central , yeah

32:39

, and it's life-giving yes

32:41

, no , you're , you're so right .

32:43

I'm glad you contrasted it against like the traditional

32:45

frameworks of Individuality

32:48

that are , you know , really a product of white

32:51

supremacy in academia , and

32:53

I love that we are Not

32:55

just us , but a lot of people are turning

32:57

that upside down and saying like , no , we

33:00

don't care about only being the first

33:02

author on all these publications like we

33:04

don't we don't care about all these accolades Like we

33:06

want to do this work in community with other people

33:08

. So thank you so much , dr Dolly

33:11

, for being with us on the cohort sisters

33:13

podcast . I'm excited to continue following

33:15

along your work and having the

33:17

opportunity to share your amazing

33:20

, amazing work and the way that you bridge research

33:22

and advocacy and activism and

33:25

teaching to the

33:27

public to the public and to your students

33:29

. So thanks again for being on the podcast .

33:31

Thank you so much . It's a pleasure to be here

33:33

. I love the work that you're doing with cohort sisters

33:35

and Please stay tuned

33:38

. Via Instagram , I

33:40

am Jalicia , and also via

33:42

my lab , breha Breha . The Breha

33:44

collective , which is a black feminist reproductive justice

33:46

, equity and HIV . It's activism collective

33:48

, which is a new interdisciplinary lab that

33:50

elevates the political activism

33:53

and experiences in health of Afrodiasporic

33:56

women , girls and gender diverse

33:58

people and our shared and divergent struggles

34:00

against reproductive injustice . Stay

34:02

tuned .

34:03

I Love that . We'll make sure to include

34:05

how to find you and connect and support

34:07

your work in the show notes . Thanks again . Thank

34:20

you again for listening to this week's episode

34:22

of the cohort sisters podcast . If

34:24

you are a black woman interested in joining

34:26

the cohort sisters membership community or

34:29

you're looking for more information on how to

34:31

support or partner with cohort sisters

34:33

, please visit our website at wwwcohortsistascom

34:37

. You can also find us on all

34:39

social media platforms at cohort sisters

34:42

. Don't forget to subscribe to the cohort

34:44

sisters podcast and leave us a quick review

34:46

wherever you're listening . Thank

34:48

you so much for joining us this week and we'll

34:51

catch you in next week's episode .