0:03

Jay Wonder Wallace's a cold case homicide

0:05

detective who's been investigating cold case murders

0:07

and Los Angeles County for over a

0:09

decade. His work has been featured on

0:11

Fox News, Dateline, in Court Tv. Now

0:13

we join him as he pleases investigative

0:15

skills to making a case of christianity.

0:20

Is pretty podcast on. As

0:24

you know, this year during

0:26

posting some of the last

0:28

Rss feed podcast from last

0:30

decade or so on updating.

0:32

Our website to make sure that all of our

0:35

resources are still available to you. In one of

0:37

these I came across, I remember reading this article.

0:40

Originally. A a

0:42

gentleman posted on a response to want to

0:44

borrow it was like that's how it started

0:46

but you'll get more deja on this but

0:48

podcast to follow our response from an atheist

0:50

perspective and he could tell he was really

0:52

struggling to always be honest about where atheism

0:54

was going to lead him and his worldview

0:56

and so I repost it it I ask

0:58

for permission I found him I figured out

1:00

the federal as do is email where it

1:02

how to find him I reached out to

1:04

me responded to me so I posted it

1:06

afterwards. I remember a lot of people were

1:08

like i don't believe this actually. Occurred I

1:10

think you're making this thing up. So

1:12

anyway it's been reposted though a number

1:14

of places by other friends of mine

1:17

people whose first read it here on

1:19

our website over a decade ago and

1:21

so I wanted to post it for

1:23

you as well as Dick. Now maybe

1:25

today's there seems little less likely because

1:27

people do talk honestly about where their

1:29

world be as lead them but the

1:31

time I posted this this seem like

1:33

it was controversial of people so I

1:35

hope it'll help you think it also

1:37

also about the consequence a worldview. Talk

1:39

about the trajectory decisions. That young people need

1:41

to make and high school and I often will

1:43

talk about the very first decision you must make

1:46

which such that course for the rest of your

1:48

life is world you like what is your over

1:50

arching view of how we got here where we're

1:52

headed, how he fix the mess we're in. So

1:56

this is an important decision for all of us and

1:58

I hope this podcast will help you consider. About.

2:11

Comic very of our Turbines.

2:18

Are you ready to examine the evidence? To. Christianity.

2:22

Welcome to the Cold Case

2:24

Christianity podcast The only fish

2:26

in case making podcast hosted.

2:28

By a cookies homicide detective. There

2:34

is your house J Warner Mama.

2:50

Him or her backyard recall case Christian it

2:52

hard as I am j One or Wallace

2:54

this to a week. We're gonna try to

2:56

do as many responses and emails as I've

2:59

gotten without doing anything else so we can

3:01

hopefully squeeze in a few these the and

3:03

I thought be good test at the end

3:05

of the years. Merit to the I Post

3:07

is not our top ten cold case Christianity

3:09

articles of two thousand and thirteen. Now almost

3:11

anyone do A because I feel like sometimes

3:13

it's so I'm is a month ago wasted

3:15

post in Autumn in the sense that you'll

3:18

get a new content years pointing back to

3:20

old content. Or hey to do that too

3:22

many times especially since I sent out a

3:24

guy like a Merry Christmas post which I

3:26

breed or they didn't posted for the twenty

3:28

fifth so I can. I felt like want

3:30

this two days this week when you guys

3:32

are get anything new but it is true

3:34

that lot of you have joined the slate

3:36

of start listening to this in the year

3:38

and maybe or I am aware of some

3:40

of these top ten post. These are already

3:42

in terms of page views so hopefully that

3:44

will learn to be directly back to some

3:46

stuff it's been buried in up in that

3:48

necessarily on the forefront of are called Case

3:50

Christianity. Website so hopefully that will help you

3:52

to stretches some of that stuff. But today

3:54

I want to spend time talking more about.

3:58

Some responses of emails I've gotten. I'm

4:00

gonna start with one that's not even

4:02

on our on our Our Home page

4:05

As you know I post on of

4:07

many other places around the internet's that

4:09

stand to reason that cause get Coaches

4:12

Christianity at please convince me at christianity.com

4:14

at apologetics.com at Dice Conversant Life and

4:16

also at Cross Examined in and one

4:19

of these locations we were posting about.

4:21

I'm just the case for Christianity is

4:23

that it's the our Queen of you've

4:26

read as call when the case for

4:28

God is strong. Skeptics attack. Christianity and

4:30

it was based on something I talked about very

4:32

recently hear that. My observation is that when. You.

4:36

Know you have a case that's pretty

4:38

good for theism in which the evidence

4:40

and in of itself wouldn't incline you

4:43

toward the isn't I often will see

4:45

the a naturalist that the skeptics attack

4:47

christianity in particular rather than just attacks

4:49

have a rather a general form a

4:51

c isn't or deism because it's is

4:54

easier attack that for the skeptics american

4:56

whatever that last time I think on

4:58

on the podcast the time before last

5:00

so I won't go to that again

5:03

today. But in response to that post

5:05

I got a. Post from an

5:07

atheist. And I got a when

5:09

I first read it's I thought is as a

5:11

Christian posting this kind of tongue in cheek. In

5:14

a way to kind of a stir up

5:16

the atheists who also visit the site or

5:18

says truly an atheist who's posting so little

5:20

research on the poster and sure enough I

5:22

yeah, he's an atheist and here's what he

5:25

says. I thought it was an excellent com.

5:28

Way for us to examine the consequences

5:30

of a an atheistic worldview because his

5:32

recess he says or to all my

5:35

atheist friends of because of this. This

5:37

particular website has got a lot of

5:39

atheists that post underneath each pod. And

5:42

he's one of these atheists that post

5:44

nice really writing to his other atheist

5:47

friends are internet associates deeply by there

5:49

was never met but they they post

5:51

together on sites like ours. he

5:54

says this and read the whole thing to you and

5:56

then i want to come back and comment on it

5:58

he says Let us stop sugarcoating

6:01

it. I know it's hard

6:03

to come out and be blunt with the

6:05

friendly theists who frequent sites like this. However,

6:08

in your efforts to play nice and

6:10

be civil, you actually do

6:12

them a great disservice. We

6:15

are atheists. We believe that

6:17

the universe is a great

6:19

uncaused, random accident. All

6:22

life in the universe, past and future,

6:24

are the results of random chance acting

6:26

on itself. While

6:28

we acknowledge concepts like morality, politeness,

6:32

civility seem to exist, we

6:34

know they do not. Our

6:36

highly evolved brains imagine that these things

6:38

have a cause or a use, and

6:41

they have in the past. They have allowed life

6:43

to continue on this planet for a short blip

6:46

of time. But make no mistake, all

6:48

our dreams, loves, opinions and

6:51

desires are figments of our

6:53

primordial imagination. They

6:56

are fleeting electrical signals that

6:58

fire across our synapses for a moment

7:00

in time. They served some purpose

7:02

in the past. They got us here. That's

7:04

it. All human

7:06

achievement and plans for the future are

7:09

the result of some ancient evolved

7:11

brain and

7:13

accompanying chemical reactions that once served

7:15

a survival purpose. Example, I'll

7:18

marry and nurture children because

7:20

my genes demand reproduction. I'll

7:23

create because creativity served a survival

7:26

advantage to my ancient ape ancestors.

7:29

I'll build cities and laws because

7:31

this allowed my ape grandfather time

7:33

and peace to reproduce and protect

7:35

his genes. My only

7:37

directive is to obey my genes.

7:40

Eat. Sleep. Reproduce.

7:44

Die. That is

7:46

our Bible. We

7:48

deride the theists for having created myths

7:50

and holy books. We

7:52

imagine ourselves superior, but we too

7:55

imagine there are reasons to obey

7:57

laws. Be polite. Protect the weak.

8:00

etc., rubbish. We

8:02

are nurturing a new religion, one

8:04

where we imagine that such conventions

8:07

have any basis in reality. Have

8:10

they allowed life to exist? Absolutely.

8:13

But who cares? Outside

8:16

of my greedy little genes need to

8:18

reproduce, there's nothing in my world that

8:20

stops me from killing you and reproducing

8:22

with your wife. Only

8:25

the fear that I might be incarcerated and thus

8:27

be deprived of the opportunity to do the same

8:29

with the next guy's wife stops me. Some

8:33

of my atheist friends have fooled

8:35

themselves into acting like the general

8:37

population. They live in suburban homes,

8:39

drive Toyota Camrys and attend school

8:41

plays, but underneath they know the

8:43

truth. They are a

8:46

bag of DNA whose only purpose is

8:48

to make more of themselves. So

8:50

be nice if you want. Be involved.

8:53

Have polite conversations. Be a model citizen.

8:56

Just be aware that while you technically are

8:58

an atheist, you are an inferior one. You're

9:01

just a little bit less of evolved, that's

9:03

all. When you're ready to

9:05

join me, let me know. I'll be reproducing with

9:08

your wife. I know it's

9:10

not PC to speak so bluntly about the ramifications

9:12

of our beliefs, but in our

9:14

discussions with theists we sometimes tiptoe around

9:16

what we really know to be factual.

9:20

Maybe it's time we atheists were a little

9:22

more truthful and let the chips fall where

9:24

they may. At least that's

9:26

what my genes are telling me to say. I

9:30

wanted to read that to you because I thought that was really, first

9:33

of all, well written. If

9:35

there's a certain amount of drama, obviously, in

9:37

that as well. But I think

9:39

it does give us some insight. And we talk

9:42

about this all the time. World views

9:44

matter. Ideas have

9:46

consequences. Not to say that we

9:48

should lean

9:50

on Christianity as true simply because it

9:52

produces for us a better sense of

9:55

well-being or it makes us feel better.

9:57

That's not a good reason to embrace

9:59

any. worldview. But it is

10:01

true that our worldview does

10:04

have a consequence in the way we live.

10:07

It does seem to regulate certain behaviors,

10:10

not really from fear, but just from wanting to

10:12

live in the truth. And it's the truth of

10:15

atheism, without any sense

10:17

of purpose, without

10:19

really any... I think here he recognizes

10:22

pretty easily and pretty correctly

10:25

that there is no way to

10:28

ground moral behavior in

10:30

this type of purely naturalistic worldview.

10:32

I don't care what Sam Harris tries to

10:34

tell us in his books. There's

10:37

a difference between what is practically useful

10:40

and what you ought to do, what

10:42

is morally compelling. These

10:44

are not the same things. And

10:46

I think that you could look at this and say to

10:48

yourself, gosh, at least he gets it.

10:51

He gets it and he's consistent with his worldview. This

10:54

idea that we should behave a certain way is

10:56

a borrowing from the Christian worldview. This

10:58

idea that there are transcendent moral truths

11:00

related to how we care for each

11:02

other. He says, who

11:05

cares? You

11:07

folks, you atheists who

11:09

imagine yourselves to be superior, just creating for

11:12

yourself a new religion in which the high

11:14

values of obeying the law, being polite, and

11:16

protecting the weak are an illusion. That's

11:19

rubbish. He's

11:21

basically saying, if what we believe is

11:23

true about atheism,

11:25

then you have no grounds on which

11:28

to embrace those values as somehow being

11:30

more important. The only things that are

11:32

important are what keep your genes in

11:35

the gene pool. And that might sometimes

11:37

mean that you need to be brutal.

11:41

I daresay there are millions

11:43

of people alive today because

11:46

their ancestors brutally made

11:48

sure their genes were in the

11:50

gene pool. They did the exact

11:52

opposite of what a lot of

11:54

our even atheist friends who would call us to

11:56

be generous and call us to be Concerned

11:59

for the poor. The war and concern for those

12:01

who are in need their a lot of

12:03

noise of us on the planet today because

12:06

our ancestors did just the opposite to don't

12:08

tell me that that is not benefit the

12:10

gene pool to sometimes behave poorly. It

12:13

usually does. And. Here

12:15

we are acting as though they're some benefit

12:17

to this kind of behavior. least this writer.

12:20

Is being honest about where number one, where

12:22

the with Where the World's You leads and

12:24

number two how ludicrous it is to pretend

12:27

as though these things don't matter. If.

12:30

Some form of see isn't isn't true. I

12:34

think he hits it run the head. Now.

12:37

Be a dick posting on this next week's you will find

12:39

on the website as well. but. I

12:41

really think that this is one of the few.

12:43

This is a helpful letter for us. And

12:47

I think that this is one of the

12:49

few atheists you're going to encounter who is

12:51

least living consistently with his worldview and stop

12:54

trying to pretend and borrow from a see

12:56

a stick world you to to ground things.

12:59

In the end, as long as he can get away with it. He's.

13:02

More concerned about reproducing with your wife.

13:04

As he said, he are not politically correct,

13:06

but that is true That that probably

13:08

gives him the best chance. At

13:10

least some of those genes ago. For the

13:12

said i was my goal was to sleep

13:14

with as many women as possible because in

13:16

some of those are gonna have kids and

13:18

their and muslims are now survive That even

13:20

if I got caught and killed by some

13:22

angry husband's I've already reproduce my gene pool

13:24

frequently and the population. If you're

13:26

really looking at it in terms of the

13:29

benefit of your gene pool, there's all kinds

13:31

of behavior you shouldn't do that you would

13:33

up at be able to excuse yourself for

13:35

doing. So. I think this is a

13:37

out the zebra eye opener. And

13:39

as his socks, if you ever wonder, Where.

13:42

Your worldview will lead. I just

13:44

recently had discussion. how many times

13:46

have have you done called out

13:48

on some behavior that you have

13:50

done as a Christian That was

13:52

not appropriate and the person who

13:54

called you out said hey jim.

13:57

Or with your name is how can you

13:59

be it. Houston or code yourself

14:01

a Christ Follower He you

14:03

do this X whatever excess.

14:07

And. That things said to me I ask myself,

14:09

yeah, you're right, You know I can. I. I

14:11

can't do that. Without. Being

14:13

a hypocrite, I can't do those things

14:15

anymore. And. Call myself a

14:17

Christ follower and that is so I'm

14:19

compelled for me. It

14:21

it it is articles that that way it

14:24

is costly rains in my behavior. I

14:27

had because just with my worldview for if

14:29

my reviews city everything goes, anything goes. Now.

14:33

You might see will Not look as an

14:35

atheist. You're not going to do that. No

14:37

atheists lives that were not. I didn't either.

14:39

As an atheist, I think I had a

14:42

pretty moral life. But like this atheists says,

14:44

I was fooling myself. I

14:46

was embracing. Unknowingly.

14:49

Guys are only grounded in a see his

14:51

dick worldview. And.

14:53

Embracing those guys as if I could make

14:55

some sense of them. As an atheist, of

14:57

course I couldn't Is not that atheists not

15:00

behave well, we can. It's that we cannot

15:02

ground our behavior in the and it he

15:04

said well why are you behave in that

15:06

way When push comes to shove and you

15:08

think about it deeply you're gonna to say

15:10

well as choose to. And

15:12

essence I borrow from the culture around

15:15

me. Which. Is still

15:17

distinctly grounded in season. Anyway

15:20

so the for you to think about I

15:23

hope as you are considered and your discussions

15:25

with your atheistic France I think I'll post

15:27

this article or in an article for next

15:29

week's You can kind of printed out yourself

15:31

and take a look at it. Bring it

15:34

does butcher and dialogue with early think it's

15:36

and a wonderful ah example. of

15:38

where this can seeking these arctic break

15:40

come back and will do some listener and.

15:47

Mrs. Smith. Okay,

16:02

so here's in. There are a contract I

16:04

got from Keys on Facebook says this: dear

16:06

Mr. Wallace I once enjoyed the cozy cocoon

16:08

of my limited christian faith. I was a

16:10

believer for the most part when we to

16:13

church occasionally and went about my daily life.

16:16

When I stumbled across your podcasts on of

16:18

they que they have the played an important

16:20

role in my Christian development belief but my

16:22

old life is shot to hell. My

16:24

this. This Christmas is different for me.

16:27

Everything is new, richer and deeper. But

16:29

I'm often sad and noticing that many

16:31

of my friends are atheists. Previously, I

16:33

didn't notice the pervasiveness of atheism called

16:36

churches and Islam coexistence was easy because

16:38

as far as I knew, they might

16:40

be right. However, it's tough knowing the

16:42

truth and having few people to share

16:44

it with. Now, I really do value

16:47

my Christian friends. I'm also finding it

16:49

hard to listen to the media with

16:51

every expose a on The History That

16:53

Are or Discovery Channel and compelled to

16:55

scour the Internet to receive their quote

16:58

unquote Evidence Radio and. Print media are

17:00

no better. And don't get me started

17:02

with the Internet quote Unquote Information: You've

17:04

alluded to your own emotional rollercoaster ride

17:06

from on believe to believe. I'm sure

17:08

others are feeling the same way I

17:10

do and would be interested to hear

17:12

how you manage your emotions. Merry Christmas

17:14

Keith Kids! Thanks for the contact and

17:16

all the incursion. I appreciate it. Now

17:18

I can tell you that couple things

17:20

about this. Of number

17:23

One skinny see now why. It is

17:25

so much easier to remain in a

17:27

position that is very pluralistic and very

17:29

i'm nonconfrontational and this new definition of

17:32

tolerance? You know where everyone agrees that

17:34

everyone's view is equally true at? these

17:36

are things that are pretty easy to

17:38

embrace. pretty easy to access. To me,

17:41

it's far easier to just pretend like

17:43

no one's got the truth. And

17:45

that and I don't care what the truth might

17:47

be, that is years to actually. Dig.

17:50

Deep into find out what is true. Because

17:52

the minute you do that, you are

17:54

going to separate yourself from others because

17:56

you're going to believe things that not

17:58

everybody else police. But.

18:00

That's why the the to the the

18:02

traditional definition of tolerance is so important.

18:04

Okay so what Actress So many family

18:07

members who are still atheists? We don't

18:09

agree on these things. And

18:11

I still love him. I still love to see

18:13

him for the holidays. I still that there's no

18:16

to. I have no difference in my feelings toward

18:18

my father than I ever did when I was

18:20

an atheist. I still loved the desert. Why we

18:22

don't on a concern? Yeah I him. But

18:25

again, I mean I think at some point. Keys.

18:27

I feel are not emotional. I was never

18:29

the kind of person who would have jumped

18:32

in ascending emotionally anyway and that's one of

18:34

the reasons why I thought for a long

18:36

time I was a to held christianity at

18:38

arm's length spear or really sell my gosh

18:41

I cannot jump into something like all these

18:43

other knuckleheads do this because if it feels

18:45

good to them or the haven't an emotional

18:47

response, missing data somehow communicated to them emotionally

18:49

or the had this experience of some some

18:52

some sort I could never jump in that

18:54

we are headed jump in after I have

18:56

worked out all the details Evidential yeah to

18:58

see his is true. For

19:01

some reason to accept christianity

19:03

while also rejecting Mormonism for

19:05

example, If if

19:07

mean of his these things by as the we

19:09

are determined truth is the same both systems. How

19:12

would I ever know which was true. Or.

19:15

That I would set to ignore the differences in

19:17

sales. They're both true and and I'm both a

19:19

Mormon and a Christian. In an atheist and us

19:21

a Muslim makes me, how do you do that?

19:23

Had yes say that that that the differences don't

19:25

matter. As as

19:27

it is a curse of knowledge keys. But

19:31

because I'm not an emotional person or these

19:33

regards has kind of navigate through this one

19:35

thing that has helped me. Is

19:37

to to know that in the and I'm gonna seek

19:39

my way through it? Or not going

19:41

to respond emotionally. Even. When

19:43

somebody says something, I'm i'm in a

19:45

five You read the comments and her

19:47

blogs. I mean, there's just as it

19:49

is. you're going to be attacked constantly

19:51

if you take a stand on anything.

19:55

the question is am i gonna respond of these

19:57

attacks not now are really not going to at

19:59

all I'm just going to move

20:01

through it unemotionally. And

20:03

I'm not going to get caught up and bite on

20:06

the bait that's thrown to me by somebody who

20:08

has an emotional response. And

20:10

so for the most part, yeah, I have

20:12

a certain theological knowledge that helps me, Keith,

20:15

knowing that my job is simply to speak the

20:17

truth. And God does the

20:19

rest. As a matter of fact,

20:21

it's all in God's hands. It doesn't mean

20:24

I should be silent and sit on my hands

20:26

and do nothing about what I see around me,

20:28

but it also means I cannot twist and turn

20:30

in the wind emotionally if things don't go my

20:32

way. I have

20:34

a job to do. And if it only moves

20:36

the ball forward six inches, my job

20:38

was to get off the bench. And I did that. And

20:41

now we'll see what God does with my effort. But

20:44

I have confidence, at least, in knowing that I made the

20:46

effort. And yes,

20:48

there's a thousand programs on the

20:51

History or Discovery channel that are going to

20:53

drive you crazy, especially around Christmas and Easter.

20:56

So we're seeing a lot right now. We'll see a lot again

20:58

in April. And it's

21:00

always going to be something negative about Christianity. Some

21:02

reason why you shouldn't trust Christianity. Some reason why

21:04

the Jesus you thought you knew is not truth.

21:07

Something like this is going to pop up every Christmas and every

21:09

Easter. You see it on Time magazine. You see it on all

21:11

the different magazines, right? I can't

21:13

get emotionally involved with that. I

21:16

make my case, in my case, rather,

21:18

calmly every day you get up, you

21:20

write your thousand words. And

21:23

that's what I try to do. And by

21:25

the way, if I'm going to write a thousand words a day, you

21:27

can be darn sure it's not going to be in the comments section

21:29

on some blog. If for me it has to be

21:31

a blog, and then I wish

21:34

I could get involved in another 5,000 words responding

21:36

to all the people who criticize you. But

21:39

there's no point in doing that. It's not as though I

21:41

haven't written about it. But part of the problem, too, is

21:43

that you'll see sometimes, Keith, people

21:45

will attack you for something you've already written about.

21:48

You've already answered that objection. And

21:50

I'm going to have to go back and reiterate it. You know what?

21:53

It's There. And A Lot of these

21:55

folks, at some point you realize pretty quickly, Keith, you're

21:57

not going to—if you are somebody who's going to watch

21:59

the history or discover. The show and

22:01

the unconvinced an unknown unalterably

22:03

convinced. Based. On what you

22:05

saw in the history or Discovery Channel we do our best

22:08

to make a case for it. Then we walk away. And.

22:11

I don't get a am not at a not

22:13

in the emotional rollercoaster anymore or she was even

22:15

harder Though for me, Keith's was it's hard as

22:17

if you know a little bit. It's

22:19

hard not to let your pride get

22:21

in the way and ruin other experiences

22:23

for yourself. So for example, know it's

22:26

it's It's awfully hard sometimes for me

22:28

to attend church when you to hear

22:30

some be on the are on the

22:32

pulpit says something oh gosh, that is

22:34

just not true. And near

22:36

pride. it's involved right sort. Had to learn

22:38

to them wisely. Step back from the private

22:40

position that I know something more than the

22:42

next guy. You might know something more on

22:44

that particular topic, but I'm sure they'll say

22:47

something next with you didn't know and and

22:49

he'll know more on that topic. And so

22:51

at some point to cut some grace to

22:53

people as stop being so arrogant and think

22:55

that he know now I'm in a position

22:57

where I know something and these people are

22:59

all wrong. Would be careful that. Letter.

23:02

To at always been with. That was

23:04

me just seventeen years ago. And

23:07

hasn't been that long. I was with my wife

23:09

for eighteen years before I even became a Christian.

23:12

I. I remember. How Adnan

23:15

I was about my old position. And.

23:17

I refuse to get uptight are

23:20

all on emotionally charged about somebody

23:22

who's holding the exact same position

23:24

I held for thirty five years?

23:28

Or calmly present my case. And

23:31

God will do. A car will do. I can see

23:33

I never saw my own conversion coming. In.

23:35

A guy can do that with me. I'm a wasn't

23:38

My wife will take same thing if he can do

23:40

with Jim Wallis the what the jerk that I was

23:42

he can do with anybody. So.

23:44

I'm I'm a lot more calm and confident. Also

23:47

Steve the me say this to yeah I

23:49

think if we react emotionally. And

23:52

we ride the emotional rollercoaster. It shows

23:54

the in security of our position. If

23:57

you're really confident and years of biggest.

24:00

In the yard and your covenant, your own

24:02

ability carriers that at the some little dog

24:04

coming in and barking at you. Doesn't.

24:06

Shake? Yep, too much because you have the confidence to

24:08

know that did. You meet

24:10

him as a my set you up and that

24:13

seems take that approach with our are not believing

24:15

France but if we have the truth I don't

24:17

feel like I always have to descendant like if

24:19

I don't defend the nobody else will fall under

24:22

funded is no longer truth or of item has

24:24

defended god can't. I

24:26

know that I'm on the side of Cruz right now. And

24:29

I com we go about. Speaking. The

24:31

truth and if it needs to be descended of

24:33

course I will. but I don't get too nervous

24:35

or to emotional about it because that exact would

24:37

discuss your the were all around me that you're

24:40

not quite sure yourself. are you champs? he is

24:42

Some was like you know when you get the

24:44

defensive been that that strongly. It's sometimes a sure

24:46

sign of guilt right when I your respects. And

24:49

so I just know, hey, I know the truth. As

24:51

much calmer I think in my approach with the world

24:53

around me out that helps you keep as you think

24:56

about how to respond yourself and also to the helps

24:58

if is seek If if if if if apologetic served

25:00

a purpose in your life case. It's

25:02

serve that purpose because you used your

25:04

mind to worship God into work through

25:06

the facts of the. As a result,

25:08

you're probably less emotional than used to

25:10

be about these issues. In your more

25:12

rational about these issues will let that

25:14

rationality take you another step further. See

25:16

will be on an emotional roller, but

25:18

instead you'll be on a rational journey.

25:22

of that helps take a break. Come back and would

25:24

you to more a quick notes here on. If

25:31

you've enjoyed him some cookies to see

25:33

an idiot, he didn't learn more about

25:36

the rules of evidence, the case of

25:38

his sanity in the importance of T

25:40

smoking and sincerely blonde just is it.

25:42

cold case christianity.com and click on the

25:44

link on the right side of the

25:47

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in fly every day and become a city.

25:56

Is t. Okay

26:02

then we the not harm. who says you're

26:04

a gym? When did you say the Gospel

26:07

of Matthew was written in your timeline? out

26:09

what's the folks have written a me about

26:11

my early dating timeline in his you know

26:13

says listen to my show in the past

26:16

you know that I find support the he's

26:18

for early dating as powerful given Luke's authorship

26:20

of the Book of Acts and Luke's authorship

26:22

of. The Gospel of

26:24

Luke. So I use luke as the way

26:27

to kind of date early and the always

26:29

these questions for people says I'll use a

26:31

looks use of Mark. For example, to offer

26:33

place March. But and where do you place

26:36

a Gospel of Matthew were replaced The Gospel

26:38

of John and if the Gospel of John

26:40

as leaders this for your case for early

26:42

dating. Know because you're building and on Luke's

26:45

authorship of the Book of Acts Working backwards?

26:47

He's He's on the website at Cookies Crushing.

26:49

Decide in early dating a way that he

26:52

writes gym. When did you say the Gospel

26:54

of Matthew was written in your timeline? I'm

26:56

reading into you Cbs of Scissor Years Account

26:58

of Origins Master Pentathlon A Us going into

27:01

India and claiming to. Find the gospel of

27:03

Matthew their left by Bartholomew the Apostle. Yeah

27:05

and there's there's lot of up can probably

27:07

church tradition and writing of effort from the

27:10

early church fathers about where they would go

27:12

to certain regions and find that the gospel

27:14

had already preceded them. So the question has

27:16

your how early or these Gospels was. As

27:19

I said, I make it a case

27:22

for early on dating based on the

27:24

gospel that the armed Book of Acts

27:26

and what's missing the Book of Acts

27:29

I think puts the dating very very

27:31

early and then you'll see that Paul

27:33

is even going to quote from Luke's

27:35

gospel. Me a loose gospel cause before

27:38

the Book of Acts like a deficit

27:40

looks gospel even earlier and then Luke

27:42

says he is writing a and up

27:45

an account that has the proper sequence.

27:47

he says it's orderly in the right orders

27:50

and i thought that you him why would

27:52

you even say such a thing except that

27:54

the earth the first century was pretty well

27:56

known according to pbs that marks account was

27:58

accurate but not order And of course,

28:00

the one person that Luke quotes more than

28:03

anyone else is Mark. So

28:05

it almost appears as though he's talking about Mark. Well,

28:07

that means that Mark's Gospel is even earlier than Luke's.

28:09

And so I get very early on dating. I

28:12

think that Mark's Gospel is actually written

28:14

within 15 years, 12, 15, 18 years of the actual crucifixion.

28:20

Now, so where does Matthew's Gospel come

28:22

in this? Well, I don't have a

28:24

claim about where Matthew's Gospel comes. You

28:27

know, there's some borrowing from both Matthew

28:30

and Mark in the Gospel of Luke. But here's what I'll

28:32

do instead to make the case for

28:35

you, Tom,

28:37

because you're asking this question about when is

28:39

Matthew's Gospel dated. I do think there's good

28:41

reason to believe these are all dated very

28:43

early. And so let me share with you

28:45

the scholars who actually agree. Giuseppe

28:48

Ricciotti is a scholar. He's

28:50

an Italian Bible scholar. He's an archaeologist. He's a

28:52

historian. He's written a lot about the

28:54

life of Christ, about Paul. And

28:57

he concludes that the gospels are written early

28:59

on the basis of some of the same

29:01

lines of internal textual evidence that I've argued

29:03

for. And he says he thinks that

29:05

the Gospel of Matthew was written between 50 and 55 A.D.

29:08

Mark between 55 to 60. The

29:11

Gospel of Luke wrote right around 60. And

29:13

the Gospel of John, he puts out 100 A.D. Now,

29:16

of course, these are all going to be

29:18

very, very depending on who you talk to.

29:20

So, for example, John Arthur Thomas Robinson, he's

29:22

a former Anglican bishop. He's a New Testament

29:24

scholar. Pardon me.

29:27

He actually uses a historical approach in

29:29

his research. It's based

29:31

on the primary, primarily the fall of

29:33

Jerusalem in 70 A.D. He

29:35

concludes that Matthew's written about 40 to 60, the

29:38

Gospel of Mark, 45 to 60, the Gospel of Luke, 57 to 60, and

29:40

the Gospel of John from 40 to 65. So

29:45

very different, right? Very broad. But both of these,

29:47

though, using this approach argue

29:50

for early dating. Even John Wenham, who is

29:52

the professor of New Testament Greek, he's also

29:54

a biblical scholar. He's written several books. He

29:56

concludes that Matthew is right around 40. The

29:59

Gospel of Mark is. Forty Five in the

30:01

the Gospel of Luke is written in

30:03

the mid fifties com burger Harrison is

30:05

a Swedish bill assessed and he are

30:07

use are also for very early dating.

30:11

He concludes the Gospels are really consistent

30:13

with the teaching and the the memorization

30:15

a traditions of the first century Rabbis

30:17

and that's why places I'm so early

30:19

or another one is Marcel Jousts as

30:21

as is a French are posing as

30:24

name wrong a biblical scholar. He's written

30:26

on the says well He concludes that

30:28

they are very early a gene. Or

30:30

John a common arc arc on pure

30:32

on time that name as well. He's

30:34

also a friend scholar he would place

30:36

I think Matthew on what C D

30:39

to papers Mark our at written run

30:41

around forty two to fifty five Matthew

30:43

written from fifty to sixty Gospel of

30:45

Luke written from fifty to sixty Felipe

30:47

Rwanda A puts on or Matthew right

30:49

around forty and I've said it was

30:52

written in Hebrew right around forty a

30:54

D and then translated into Greek from

30:56

sixty three to sixty Four. Along with

30:58

the Gospel of Luke it. He actually

31:00

says the Gospel of Mark appears there

31:02

are sixty Sixty Sixty Seven and the

31:05

Gospel of John right around a hundred

31:07

A D s Only there's a Kirsten

31:09

Seed who's Germans or he's a bomb

31:11

or archaeologist and about specialists of the

31:13

Paris and he actually wrote a book

31:16

called or the Jesus to Pirates anyway

31:18

and he really puts all that gospels

31:20

right prior to to sixty A D.

31:22

So. I'm so these are

31:24

kind of or and by the way he

31:27

does work on the three to Paris fragments

31:29

from the Gospel of Matthew self I seek

31:31

Tom Long story short the there's good reason

31:33

to date and to accept early dating and

31:36

so sometimes would you hear someone say well

31:38

conserved of stall are subsets This they're probably

31:40

referring to those folks in terms of their

31:42

scholarship relative to date because those will be

31:44

considered be conservative early dates but I think

31:47

there are a many him but you'll notice.

31:49

And the scoop I've mentioned. They. Come

31:51

to early dating different ways. They don't all

31:53

use my system to get their lot of

31:56

use, their own expertise in terms of language

31:58

in terms of fragments of puppy. The rest

32:00

and in his article ways to kind of

32:02

get this early data. So I think that

32:04

there are a good reasons to believe that

32:06

these are early accounts and if they are

32:08

earlier causes as of a lot and said

32:10

is much harder to lie early when people

32:12

are still around. To know

32:14

better. Than. It is to

32:17

lie late. That's.

32:19

Just the truth of it. And. That's why

32:21

are one of the things I was looking for in

32:23

my witnesses his artwork. we're really their to you tell

32:25

the story to anybody. Did.

32:27

You tell the story anybody early enough so they can

32:29

catch it. And know if you

32:31

were telling the truth. Because our

32:33

Cds or story change would. Did you

32:35

just see it early enough We really there

32:38

and then did you speak it very

32:40

early in history so I didn't know that

32:42

she were really there. And then what did

32:44

you tell the first people you told that

32:47

would be important? For. This

32:49

is why I've written about this again

32:51

this week in an article called Testing

32:53

the Gospels from John to Politics. Since.

32:56

The reason why I wrote about us because this

32:58

is what we do right, were sweet with what

33:01

we go out and we find and we ask

33:03

the questions. Are we really there? Can you show

33:05

me the you have any evidence or any a

33:07

good reason to believe you were really there and

33:10

then as you saw it on Thursday of that

33:12

week did you tell anybody that Thursday or Friday

33:14

or Saturday We I told my brother in law

33:16

on Saturday night my phone for party talk to

33:19

your brother loss don't see what your brother in

33:21

law says you said as it may be some

33:23

key issue I'm testing and I wanna know? Did

33:25

you mention. This early or you make in

33:28

the sub late. Is now

33:30

serve some purpose more to do

33:32

the same thing with the gospels

33:34

for at least a couple when

33:36

which we have. I'm we've already

33:38

identified the. People who are at

33:41

the party on Saturday night. So for John

33:43

the person's at the party on Saturday night

33:45

as Ignatius and Pages and Polycarpic. these

33:47

folks were at the party on saturday

33:49

night when john for a start talking

33:51

about jesus in essence these were the

33:53

students of john who he shared the

33:56

gospel with a shared would he remembered

33:58

with and if we want to look

34:00

at the major overarching kind

34:02

of ideas, the

34:05

overarching statements

34:07

of John to test it to see if

34:09

they really are legitimate. One way we can

34:11

do that is to simply ask, what did

34:13

he tell you guys at the party on

34:15

Saturday night? And

34:18

so in those weeks and months and years

34:20

that John taught Ignatius and Papius and Polycarp,

34:22

you know, he taught them lots of details

34:24

that they then in turn wrote out in

34:27

their own letters. Ignatius wrote seven letters to

34:29

the church, Polycarp wrote one that survives to

34:32

Philippi. Papius wrote a lot, we've

34:34

lost it all. But we

34:36

can look and see how does Ignatius describe

34:38

the Jesus that was taught to him by

34:40

John? How does Polycarp describe the Jesus taught

34:43

to him by John? And then

34:45

when they turn and they teach Aranaeus,

34:48

their student, what do they teach

34:50

Aranaeus? And when Aranaeus teaches his

34:52

student Hippolytus, what does he teach

34:54

his student Hippolytus? We can see

34:57

what is being said by

34:59

those who talk to the eyewitness

35:01

early. And what

35:03

you're going to find as you look at

35:05

just the writings of Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp,

35:07

just those three, those are the

35:10

only three that we can find strong letters.

35:13

Those three had direct access to John and

35:15

Paul. So I want

35:17

to see what did they say about Jesus? Because

35:19

that'll give us an idea of what John and

35:21

Paul were saying about Jesus. And

35:24

sure enough, here's who Jesus is, according

35:26

to the very first people at the

35:28

party, when John and Paul were first

35:30

talking about what they thought. Jesus

35:32

was conceived by the Holy Spirit and

35:34

he was born of the Virgin Mary.

35:37

A star announced his birth. He was

35:39

baptized by John the Baptist, taught and

35:41

had a ministry on earth. He was

35:44

humble, unassuming and sinless. He spoke the

35:46

words of God. He taught the sermon on

35:48

the Mount. He was anointed.

35:51

He was anointed when an

35:54

ointment was poured on his head.

35:56

He was unjustly treated and condemned

35:58

by men. suffered,

36:00

crucified, all of that took place under

36:03

the government of Pontius Pilate and Herod

36:05

the Tetrarch when Herod was king. Jesus

36:08

died on a cross. He was resurrected.

36:10

He had a physical resurrection body. He

36:12

appeared to Peter and to the others

36:15

after the resurrection. He encouraged the disciples

36:17

to touch him and he even ate

36:19

with the disciples. His disciples were convinced

36:22

by the resurrection appearances. They were fearless

36:24

after seeing Jesus rise from the dead.

36:26

And Jesus returned

36:28

to God the Father. He's

36:31

our only master. He's the Son

36:33

of God. All things are subject

36:35

to Jesus. All creation belongs to

36:37

Him. He's the door, the bread

36:39

of life, the eternal Word. He's

36:42

our Savior, Lord and God. His

36:44

work on the cross is sufficient.

36:46

The faith in Christ's work on

36:48

the cross saves us. This salvation

36:50

and forgiveness are gifts of grace

36:52

from God because Jesus will come

36:54

as God to judge the living and the

36:57

dead. That's a lot of

36:59

information to know about Jesus without

37:01

a single canonical New Testament

37:03

document. You can learn that

37:06

from the people at the party who were listening

37:08

to John and Paul and

37:11

they wrote about it. That's

37:13

a lot of overarching information.

37:15

And while you don't know necessarily about every

37:18

miracle that Jesus worked, it's clear He worked

37:20

miracles. Although you don't know about everything He

37:22

taught in His teaching, it's clear He taught

37:25

the Sermon on the Mount. From the writings

37:27

of those who were listening to Paul and

37:29

John, that's pretty powerful because

37:31

it puts somebody on scene early

37:34

who said that these folks were talking about it

37:36

right away and here's what they

37:39

said. Not bad.

37:41

It was powerful for me when I discovered it.

37:43

I hope it's powerful for you. We'll

37:45

take a break, come back and do one more

37:49

contact here from Facebook. and

38:00

click on any of the social media

38:02

links at the top of the homepage.

38:08

You can follow Jim on Facebook, Twitter,

38:10

Google+, Instagram, LinkedIn, and

38:13

more. Okay, this email

38:15

is a little bit more difficult because I don't

38:17

know much about this topic, so I'm going to

38:19

throw this out to all of you as my

38:21

listeners, and you start writing to me and tell

38:23

me what you think about common core state standards

38:25

in the public schools, and we'll share

38:27

what you write to me here on the podcast. Here's

38:30

what Steve writes to me. Hi Jim, I know

38:32

you're a busy man these days, just a quick

38:34

question. Have you read the common core state standards?

38:37

The reason I ask is that at numerous places,

38:39

the CCSS require public school teachers

38:41

to teach students the importance of

38:44

using primary source documents and artifacts.

38:47

This is an incredible development because it

38:49

opens the door wide open for dialogue

38:51

regarding the historicity of the Christian gospels.

38:54

Also, the CCSS emphasizes teaching students

38:56

to write in the form of

38:58

an argument and avoid ad hominem

39:00

as well as appeals to emotions.

39:03

In the hands of an apologist, I think

39:05

a number of interesting avenues emerge for dialogue

39:07

on the Mars hill of public education. As

39:10

a public school administrator, I'm required to be

39:12

well versed in the CCSS, but as a

39:14

Christian first and foremost, I am to be

39:16

well versed, no pun intended. I

39:19

believe an entire monograph could be developed

39:21

on how the common core is actually

39:24

a boon to the apologetic community for

39:26

it names standards that if ever fully

39:28

implemented will redefine public discourse around logic,

39:30

epistemology, teleology, ontology, and what it means

39:33

to be educated. I would

39:35

love to hear your thoughts on common core

39:37

in particular and how your approach to apologetics

39:39

can run some ballistics on the CCSS

39:41

bullets fired so often in the blogosphere.

39:44

Cheers in Christ, Steve. A

39:46

great email, because most of what I'm hearing is

39:49

negative about CCSS. Maybe

39:54

it's just a knee-jerk reaction that Christians sometimes

39:56

have when a system tries

39:58

to tell them how to... teach

40:00

their kids or what to teach their kids and

40:02

it always is fear that anything

40:04

that comes from the government is eventually going

40:06

to be against Christianity and leaning quite a

40:08

bit, maybe a less conservative

40:10

and social outlook. So

40:12

there's always this concern, especially if it's coming in this

40:15

administration, which a lot of people see as a more

40:17

liberal administration, let's just be honest about it. And

40:20

having not really looked at CSS, a number

40:22

of people have approached me on this at

40:24

speaking engagements and I'm never quite sure what

40:26

to say. So

40:28

I think this is a very encouraging email

40:30

from you, Steve, and I hope

40:32

you're right that there will be, I just don't have

40:34

a copy of it. I know that you've offered to send us some

40:37

links and I probably just need to do some work on it. But

40:39

first, before I do that, let me just vet this

40:41

a little bit by asking all of you who listen

40:43

to this podcast to email me and

40:46

tell me what you think the pros and cons

40:48

are. Then I'll start talking about it on the

40:50

podcast and we'll see if that helps us land

40:52

a position as Christians on whether we think that

40:54

Common Core is going to be helpful.

40:56

I do think, Steve, that I want to encourage

40:58

you. You're an

41:00

administrator. Are you blogging,

41:02

bud? You're

41:05

a Christian casemaker. Are you blogging? Are

41:07

you writing? If

41:09

there is a way to use CCSS

41:12

to structure a very Christian,

41:15

thoughtful Christian response to

41:17

some of the common objections we hear,

41:20

who better to talk about this to train the

41:23

rest of us than you, Steve? I'm

41:26

expecting from you, if I'm honest with you,

41:28

an article in which you show us how

41:30

CCSS is a boon to those of us

41:32

who are Christian casemakers. I want to see

41:34

that and I'll point to it. I

41:37

will feature it because I

41:39

think I'm looking for any way for us

41:41

to take the gospel to the public schools.

41:44

If you think there's a way, if there's

41:46

some open door that CCSS allows,

41:48

Steve, write about it. Give

41:51

it to me in five points. There's five ways

41:53

you can use CCSS or five ways that educators

41:55

can ... Do you know how many people are

41:57

teaching and are listening to this podcast?

42:01

It would be a great assistance to all of us. This

42:04

is where each of us gets to. How many times

42:06

do I talk about the

42:09

fact that we each have a lane that God has given us and

42:11

we think, oh, this lane is not really going to help me to

42:13

preach the gospel. It's not going to help me to be a better

42:17

Christian case maker. I've got this job over here.

42:19

How much is God going to use this? Oh,

42:21

really? I didn't see how God was

42:23

going to use my job either. But

42:26

here we are. Here

42:28

you are, Steve. You are in a great lane

42:31

to reach people as a Christian case maker, to

42:33

train up the rest of us. And

42:36

that's what I love about being a Christ

42:38

follower, that God does not waste his gifts.

42:40

He's given to us for a reason. He's

42:44

given you your identity, your skill set,

42:46

your background for a reason so that

42:48

you can train us. Steve,

42:51

if nothing else, send me the five ways we can

42:54

use Common Core. I'll repost it and I'll give you

42:56

credit, if nothing else. But if

42:58

not, start a website, start

43:00

a blog in which you can help. I

43:03

realize, of course, as an administrator, there's a risk involved in

43:05

this. I get that. But you can find a

43:07

way to deal with that

43:09

issue next. But one thing

43:11

for sure, God has given you a shape and

43:13

a set of skills that you can use to bless the rest of

43:16

us. So I want to encourage you to do that. All

43:18

right, that's it for this week. We're going to go a little bit shorter. I

43:20

asked you guys a couple of weeks

43:23

back, it would be better to go

43:25

to half an hour because I was starting to get

43:27

feedback from younger listeners who are like, hey, dude, no

43:29

one listens to an hour podcast anymore. No one listens

43:32

to anything over a half an hour anymore. Can you

43:34

figure out a way to shorten it to half an

43:36

hour? But as I asked you, of

43:38

course, I'm asking people who are listening to an hour podcast,

43:40

a lot of you said, no, an hour is good. Well,

43:43

we're going to compromise with these for now. We'll do 45 minutes. How's

43:45

that? For at least for a while and see if that

43:47

works for everybody. Let me know what

43:49

you think of that. And I'll look forward to hearing from you.

43:51

Have a great, safe New Year's

43:54

Eve celebration. Have you had

43:56

a wonderful Christmas? We did. What

43:58

a wonderful week we had. It's just, I feel blessed. And

44:01

I'll see you right back here next week on

44:03

the Cold Case Christianity Podcast. Thanks for joining

44:05

us at the Cold Case Christianity Podcast.

44:09

You can learn more about

44:11

Jim, follow his daily blog,

44:13

download free materials, and watch

44:16

his videos at coldcasechristianity.com. You

44:21

are now free to

44:23

move about the country. Disengage

44:41

this computer now.