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1:20

Hello and welcome to the show, my name's Stuart

1:22

Goldsmith. This is the Comedian's Comedian Podcast and

1:24

today I'm talking to Adam Bloom who is returning

1:26

to the show after an eye-watering 12

1:29

years He was episode 6, I believe Adam

1:33

is back on the show, an incredibly funny man and

1:35

importantly he is here to talk to us about

1:38

his new book, Finding Your Comic Genius Now

1:40

I've read some of it, I haven't read all of it I

1:44

cannot wait to read the rest of it It

1:47

is... I'm going to gush at him

1:51

I think I make him cry in this episode

1:54

I can't tell you how much you need this book

1:57

This is not SponCon, this is not me saying it

1:59

in a paid way

1:59

But we've all read lots of books about comedy. This

2:02

is a book about writing jokes

2:04

and the specific techniques

2:06

that Adam's been using for three decades and

2:09

also sharing with people

2:11

with whom he writes and co-writes for all sorts of

2:13

famous comics and celebrities and what have you he's written

2:15

for. He is incredibly

2:17

adept in this book at explaining

2:19

techniques that you

2:22

may even already be using but you don't

2:24

know why. There's so much stuff he talks about,

2:26

which is sort of, it's almost

2:28

instinctive and you might have noticed it or not.

2:30

And if you have, he can help you do it better.

2:33

And if you haven't, he can tell you what you're doing and why you're going

2:35

wrong. This book has

2:37

to be on your shelf. If you're remotely interested

2:39

in comedy writing, you have to get this book.

2:41

Don't just take it from me. Let's hear it

2:43

from the man himself. And I'm also, before

2:46

we get stuck in, giddily excited because

2:48

I've been recording the blurbs for

2:50

this. I call these blurbs. I've been

2:52

recording the blurbs for this podcast for 12 years on

2:55

Audacity. And I've just updated

2:57

it. And it looks all shiny and new. So if

2:59

you're a podcast, why not update Audacity?

3:02

I'm sure it'll turn out not to have some sort

3:04

of thing I've been relying on for years

3:06

and I'll have to roll it back. But for now, oh,

3:08

look at it. It's still clunky

3:11

and 90s looking, but in a slightly different

3:13

way. Bless you, Audacity. So

3:16

you can join the Insiders Club, but you won't get any extras

3:18

from this episode because I've put it all out here. We've

3:20

got about an hour and 10 of the wonderful Adam

3:22

Bloom, but you must go.

3:25

I think you can only buy it on Amazon. We'll discuss

3:27

that. It's called Finding

3:29

Your Comic Genius. And you must, must, must

3:31

read it.

3:32

Adam's going to tell us why. You're

3:38

looking very muscular, Adam. Have you been lifting

3:40

weights? Bloody hell. Wow.

3:43

Wow. How long's

3:45

that been the case? I know it's been years since you were

3:48

on the podcast. Six. How long have you

3:50

been buff as hell? I got into fitness six

3:52

years ago and I've kept it up, even through three lockdowns.

3:56

It took me 11 months to get in what I would say

3:58

would be good shape. Oh

4:00

my god, and when you say good shape,

4:02

that's not just like running and hit workouts, like

4:05

you're actively lifting weights, are you?

4:07

Lifting weights. I went running today as well. Julian

4:11

Dean got me into running. Sorry,

4:14

Russell Hicks. Sorry, Russell Hicks. Okay. I

4:16

don't know why that happened. But yeah, I was getting

4:19

chubby, midlife crisis, and

4:22

then gradually just got my body to go like that.

4:25

Oh, nice. That was for the benefit of the listener,

4:27

that was an inversion of a triangle with the point

4:29

of being on top. And we started. And we

4:32

started. Yeah. Yeah,

4:34

why not? Yeah, yeah. We're just, we basically, the

4:36

idea is you and I just have a lovely catch up chat,

4:38

we talk about the book, and then at the end I go,

4:40

right, now should we start? And then it's like a sort of joke rest.

4:44

Well, now I have to apologise to Julian Dean,

4:46

to Russell Hicks, for doing it again. Yeah,

4:49

I apologize for calling him Julian Dean, but your Russell Hicks

4:51

got me into running. Yes. But

4:53

fortunately, Julian Dean and Russell Hicks are both excellent comedians

4:56

in very different ways. Very different

4:58

ways. It's

5:01

a curio. So, listen, you

5:03

said yourself when we began this Zoom

5:05

call, some technical minutes ago,

5:07

it's been 12 years, you were episode

5:09

six. Yep.

5:10

That's extraordinary. We've seen each other

5:13

since then, but not with the sort of intensity

5:15

of that two hour conversation we had in

5:17

the top, that kind of top room, that study

5:20

of your house in wherever it was, Epsom. Yeah,

5:22

that was my favourite interview I'd ever done. And I buzzed

5:24

for about two hours after that interview. Oh, man. We

5:27

really connected. And the best thing, I feel

5:29

like it came from it, you asked me about the writing process

5:32

and I said, I don't really sit down and write unless

5:34

I write for other people. And you went, well, let's talk about

5:37

that then. And I've written for 18 people

5:39

then. And because of the podcast,

5:41

I probably got 10 writing jobs, even

5:43

in other countries. Amazing. Amazing.

5:46

Thank you. Great. You're

5:49

incredibly welcome. This is like, I think that

5:51

was such an early interview in the life of the podcast,

5:53

that it was one that really helped me clarify

5:56

my kind of goals for the podcast,

5:58

which has now been going. years

6:00

and years and years and years.

6:02

Let's do before we go, what

6:04

I want to kind of peg for later discussion

6:07

is your book, which I want to get into some detail

6:10

on. And it is, I think, going

6:12

to be one of the, it's

6:14

going to be regarded in years to come as probably

6:16

the only real book about jokes.

6:18

Because it is, it's, it's made,

6:21

you must know how good it is. Do

6:23

you get how good it is? Well, it's

6:25

very hard to look at your own work subjectively, because

6:27

I, you know, I know what I already knew what I was saying. But

6:30

when I asked Rich Hall, who

6:32

was when Rich Hall came over in 95 with

6:34

an Emmy under his belt, he was a God to

6:36

me. I mean, he made everyone else look like

6:38

they were just having a girl comedy. Yeah,

6:41

it really did. He was this giant

6:43

appeared, and everyone was in all of

6:45

him. And I, I wanted to quote

6:47

him and I asked his permission and asked

6:50

if the wording was correct. And he wrote back

6:52

and said, I think I need to read this book. You

6:54

say stuff about comedy I didn't even realise. And that's

6:56

when I realised I was tapping into something

6:59

because that I couldn't ask for more

7:02

from him. Nobody, I mean, absolute

7:04

God to me. And that sentence was perfect.

7:07

So I used on the back of the book. Yeah, yeah.

7:09

It's I mean, it's just brilliant. I want to get I want

7:11

to get really, really into it. Before we do that, it's

7:14

been 12 years, we've seen each other sort

7:16

of gigs here and there since. And

7:19

we what else besides physical

7:21

fitness and being really kind of like spit

7:24

take spit take bath now, I would say

7:26

that you're like I really went, Oh my God, I was

7:28

really hot. Besides that, what's been

7:30

going on? What's been going on in your to

7:32

a certain extent, your life? What's been going on in your

7:35

your comedy practice? Like I had a quick scan

7:37

over a transcript I've got of our first

7:40

interview. And we talked a bit about, you

7:43

know, your origins in comedy, we talked a bit

7:45

about Montreal. I remember you made that lovely

7:47

analogy about skipping. I

7:49

remember memorably you said, well, you know, I

7:51

just love skipping, telling jokes. It's just writing, telling

7:54

jokes. It's just skipping. And then I think

7:56

by the end of the interview, you said, of course, if I could get back, I'll tell

7:58

you I'll skip with three cocks in my mouth. Ahh!

8:04

You know, so that was a man

8:06

in a comic there who was pretty

8:09

settled in your position

8:11

in comedy. You were like, I write

8:13

for people and with people, I write for

8:16

myself, I perform myself, myself. You

8:18

were kind of embodying a comedy

8:20

career of like the sort of top level

8:22

of people that aren't famous famous. That's

8:25

a nice way of putting it. So

8:28

the writing took off, I mean, I genuinely

8:30

thank you for that because I've

8:32

written for over 50 people now. And

8:35

I suppose six or seven

8:37

of them are household names, one of them is globally

8:40

known and has got an Oscar nomination. I've

8:42

worked on 29 projects with that person. Yes,

8:44

I know who that is because you've seen me solve it. And I've

8:46

never told anyone. I'm very proud to

8:49

have made that. I mean, some

8:53

comedians talk about who they write for and I think

8:55

that person probably doesn't like this because,

8:57

you know, ghostwriting is... Ghostwriters

9:00

do not get additional material credits on

9:02

DVDs because you're making someone

9:04

look good secretly,

9:06

you know, like a stunt double. I mean, a

9:09

stunt double probably would get a credit, but my point is that

9:11

when you watch a comedian, you don't want to think they've had

9:13

help because you're just enjoying them. And I've

9:15

heard that Richard Pryor even had a writer. OK.

9:19

Which is hard to imagine because it's so heartfelt. Does

9:21

that change... When you heard that, did that change

9:24

your opinion of Richard Pryor? I just hoped

9:26

that it wasn't the bits that were felt

9:28

from the heart because I think

9:31

of him as such a ridiculously honest and

9:33

trailblazing comedian. Trailblazing.

9:36

I just hoped it was just little gags here

9:39

and there rather than the, you know, I

9:41

hate to think that someone said, why don't you

9:43

pretend to feel this? Because that would ruin it. Yeah.

9:45

But I don't think that was the case. I think there's

9:48

areas you'd have... He would have help with an area he

9:50

wouldn't. I hope. And

9:52

do you think when you write with

9:55

someone... Like I've sort of...

9:57

Since we last spoke on this podcast, I've kind of

9:59

adopted... this theory about

10:02

directing more so than writing, which is that it's incredibly

10:04

difficult to help someone. I just

10:06

worked with Dec Monroe, I don't know if you know Dec.

10:09

He's directed lots of comedy shows for

10:12

very, and done very well, and

10:14

had lots of his acts get

10:17

nominated for things, what have you. But

10:19

he was really good at helping me

10:22

create what I wanted to create, rather

10:24

than helping me create what he

10:26

thought I should be creating. And I wonder

10:29

if there's a parallel

10:29

in writing whereby...

10:33

Just sort of talk to me about that, I'm not quite

10:35

sure what the question is, but you know what I'm driving at. I

10:37

think of your type of comedy, I watched some of your more

10:39

recent stuff on Reels, like we talked about, and

10:42

it's very, very you. And it's

10:44

so funny reading that we'll come back to the book, but reading

10:47

the book and seeing your stuff about word smuggling and

10:49

going, oh that's what he's doing there, yes

10:51

of course that breath and pauses and all those sort of things,

10:54

the things you describe, you're really, really living them. When

10:56

you're writing with or for other

10:58

people, do

11:00

you...

11:01

Just talk to me about that kind of

11:03

sphere of making sure that they're

11:06

saying what they want to say

11:08

in a them way that you're helping

11:10

with, rather than saying what you want them to say, or

11:13

helping them say what they want to say in

11:15

a you way.

11:16

Well, a big thing I cover in my book

11:19

is I'm not trying to turn you into me. So

11:22

for example, I would always have clipped sounds

11:24

at the end of a sentence so that it's nice and punchy,

11:27

like that. Now if you're... When

11:29

you say a duk sound, is that a rhythmic

11:32

thing rather than like a K on the end of the word kayak

11:34

kind of thing? I mean, it's both.

11:37

I like my punch lines to make it very

11:39

clear on the last syllable that it's ending there, whereas

11:42

some people have soft sounds and

11:44

I talk about the consistency. I don't want you to do

11:47

what I do, but if you do it definitely to me,

11:49

make that consistent. So Jeff Green,

11:51

for example, has his punch lines

11:53

are in the middle of the sentence and he talks very quietly

11:56

after the funny words. So you know where the funny bit

11:58

is, but he mumbles on the... underneath it.

12:01

Now that's a very unusual style and if I noticed somebody

12:03

has soft sounds on their punchlines I would deliberately

12:05

write soft sounds to suit their style. And

12:07

Mary Burke

12:11

said to me, I watched some Zebra preview

12:13

and I worked

12:15

out that you wrote on it and I said well that's actually

12:17

a failing because they recognise my material, that's

12:20

a failing. I

12:22

mean it's a small failure

12:24

but similar to me, it's a big failure but

12:26

very different to me. So when I write

12:28

for somebody, somebody I've known

12:30

for, oh god, 28 years and they said

12:33

to me, I want to do some work with you and they

12:36

told me a couple of ideas down the phone and

12:38

I did toppers in their voice because

12:40

I'm so used to how they think. I mean think of

12:44

your best friend, if you're in a situation

12:46

where there was conflict, you know what

12:48

you'd say but you can imagine let's say they're quick

12:50

to anger and you know how they said,

12:52

you can almost think the witty comment they'd

12:54

say and once you start to think like somebody else,

12:57

it's almost like a sitcom writer, what would

13:00

Seinfeld say, what would Kramer say in that moment?

13:02

Well, we all know what Kramer would say.

13:06

So the point is that it's just slipping

13:09

inside almost in a trance and becoming

13:11

that person thinking now that they think. But

13:14

the reason it's easier to write for someone who's

13:16

got ideas already is I'm

13:18

already in the flow of the idea and I just jump

13:20

on it and go with it whereas if they look at a blank screen

13:23

and you say to me, I want you to write 10 minutes for

13:25

me, that's really hard. Like brand

13:28

new material for someone else is a really

13:30

hard thing to do but adding on it.

13:32

And have you done that? Is that ever the breath?

13:34

Write new material for someone? That to me

13:37

that sort of seems to be so far removed

13:39

from the point of that person being a comic.

13:42

Like I don't want to, I'm not slagging anyone off here,

13:44

I just like I know what I get out of comedy and

13:46

I love the idea of being helped and assisted

13:49

and guided like with anything, do you know what I mean? Like

13:51

you're learning a martial art or you're learning to

13:53

drill a hole properly in a thing.

13:56

Stu betrays his lack of drilling

13:59

a hole properly.

13:59

in a thing, you know, like men do.

14:03

But, so, assistance is one thing,

14:05

and then like, I need some stuff. Can

14:07

you think of a subject and then write about it

14:09

on my behalf?

14:10

Yes. That seems like quite a far way removed. It

14:13

is far removed. The thing is, this would never be somebody

14:15

whose heart felt. This wouldn't be somebody whose pouring

14:17

the heart out, you know. We're back to the

14:19

Richard Pryor thing. No one's ever said to me,

14:23

my mum died when I was six, can you

14:25

talk about that please? No, I mean, that would be so

14:27

insincere, wouldn't it? Just basically

14:29

start crying on stage. Cry

14:32

now? Adam says, go on and then cry. I

14:36

like to start berating them because your tear came

14:38

at the wrong moment. The bloom pop

14:41

didn't happen at the right time. So

14:44

yes, I think when somebody says, can you write me? I

14:46

mean, some people have got plenty

14:48

of money and not much

14:50

time. And therefore

14:53

they're renting my brain because they know it's

14:55

easy for them to do it that way. So

14:59

some up and coming people probably feel that

15:02

they need a lift and that lift's going to

15:04

come from someone helping them. But

15:07

the truth is, for longevity,

15:10

you need to be able to write for yourself, I

15:12

think. Yes.

15:13

Are there times when

15:16

it

15:17

hasn't worked? Like without, because

15:19

obviously I don't want you to name any of the people,

15:21

but what are the things, like you said with Mary

15:23

Burke having said to you, have

15:26

you written for that person? You regard that as

15:28

a failing. Are there what other sorts of things

15:30

can go wrong when trying

15:33

to, presumably there are things where you write a joke for someone

15:35

and you go, cracked it. That's the one. And

15:37

they go, I don't like that joke. And you're going, well,

15:40

come on, it's brilliant. I've

15:43

had lengthy debates and eventually

15:45

I've been told, like, you are aware that it's my decision.

15:48

I'm like, you've got to do it. I'm

15:50

not doing it. You've got to do it. But this

15:52

is where my passion comes because if I create

15:54

this little baby and I want it to live and

15:56

grow and the person says no.

16:00

Part of me dies inside because I'm never

16:02

going to live and if it doesn't suit

16:04

me to do it, then it's never going to live. That's

16:07

frustrating, the hours of stuff that never got done.

16:10

I think that, I've lost

16:12

my train of thought here. Oh yes,

16:15

so I've stopped writing for people who I believe

16:17

haven't got a defined persona because

16:20

I can't hang it on. In my book I

16:22

say that a persona is a tree and

16:24

that jokes are the leaves growing out of that tree. And

16:26

if there's no persona, you're just

16:28

left with a load of leaves on the floor. Because

16:32

Woody Allen summed up in one sentence, a comedian

16:34

is a funny person doing material and not a person

16:37

doing funny material. And that is, what

16:39

I love is he's written some of the best material in the world

16:41

and yet he's still saying being

16:43

a funny person is the thing.

16:45

So therefore if someone hasn't got

16:47

persona, where do I hang the jokes

16:49

on? Have you ever had

16:51

to do that because you liked someone

16:54

or you needed the money? Have you ever broken that

16:56

rule where you've kind of gone, I will

17:00

do my best for them but I know that this

17:02

isn't

17:03

what I do best? No, since

17:06

working out that that's the problem, seeing

17:08

the recurring problem being if they haven't got a persona, I've

17:11

had to say to people, I don't go,

17:13

you haven't got a persona. I go, I just

17:15

don't feel like I know you enough or

17:17

I'm not going to say you haven't got a persona. But I would say something

17:20

diplomatic.

17:23

Now, God, it worries me after someone

17:25

listens to this, going, ah, now I know what you think. Oh

17:27

no, and throughout we can, if you are concerned

17:30

about that, say so at the time and we'll tweak it or

17:32

like just say it differently

17:34

or eradicate it whatsoever. I'm

17:37

sure people will know there are many reasons why someone

17:39

might go, it's not the right fit.

17:41

Yeah, and also if they're listening, hopefully they've

17:44

since developed. I

17:47

did say to one person because they were very new and I said,

17:49

look, because you're allowed to sell some six months in,

17:51

you haven't found your voice yet, but for 10 years

17:53

in, it's a worry. But

17:56

yeah, no, I've I've I've

17:58

I've need I've been. my finances go

18:00

up and down as most comedians do, I've

18:03

never reached a stage where I'm

18:05

prepared to take someone's money and know that they're

18:07

not gonna work out, no. And that would be

18:09

on my conscience. I wouldn't be able to do that,

18:11

no. You've got, you know, and also I've got to enjoy my work.

18:13

You know, the biggest buzz

18:16

is sitting face to face with someone for the first

18:18

time and just sparking. And

18:21

then suddenly, and of course,

18:23

here's that thing as well. It talks about

18:26

it being easy to hang ideas

18:28

on existing ideas. What happened

18:30

the other day was I went, that

18:32

would be better like this maybe. And they went,

18:35

well, how about that then in that case? And they built

18:37

on my build and it just went, and it

18:39

was just like then some of this beautiful thing

18:41

developed and it happened in the space of two minutes.

18:44

Their idea, tweet, they tweet my idea.

18:46

And it was just, it was wonderful. And when you can

18:49

do that over four hours, yeah,

18:51

it's great. And then suddenly 10 minutes

18:54

of material has been developed in four hours.

18:57

So this is Adam,

19:00

an

19:00

absolute delight to

19:03

talk to comedy's own boy. He's kind

19:05

of inside of comedy and made of it. And

19:09

as we will discuss, the

19:11

connection he feels to something

19:13

infinite when minting a joke or performing

19:16

a joke is enormously inspiring.

19:19

I speak to him on this episode about, you

19:22

know, my own feelings about having been in

19:24

the game for a while and how maybe

19:26

the shine sometimes

19:30

comes off it. And I think his answer is

19:32

an extraordinary and wonderful thing. And I found it

19:34

very inspiring. On the subject of being inspired,

19:37

and we'll return to the show in a moment, I

19:39

was lucky enough to go and see Aunty Donna

19:42

on their live tour last night. I saw them at the forum

19:44

in Bath. They absolutely

19:46

tore the roof off. And I'm so proud

19:49

of them and so proud to call

19:51

them friends. They, if you haven't

19:53

listened to the Aunty Donna episode, I might even like

19:55

put the first one back out for fun coming

19:57

up as a compendium. They

20:00

are an incredible act and it

20:02

is wonderful to see such

20:05

anarchy be so consistently

20:07

funny for like an hour and a half. I'm sure

20:09

the tour is completely sold out. I think it all sold out

20:11

on day one. They've got the Netflix special, a huge

20:14

YouTuber subscriber base and everything else they do. But

20:17

if you get a chance to see it, just kill

20:19

for a ticket. And what was a joy in particular

20:22

was that in Bath I saw Elf Lyons

20:25

doing support. Elf is known to the podcast.

20:28

You'll remember the episode with her. Fantastic,

20:31

clowny, theatre maker-flavoured comic.

20:33

I've never seen her do a club set, I realised.

20:36

When I saw her come on and absolutely

20:38

spank a club set in a colossal room

20:40

to an audience of fans of someone else, which

20:43

is not always an easy gig, and

20:46

she really, really took the roof off, I

20:48

was so, so impressed. And

20:51

it reminded me that

20:53

the boxes into which we put people

20:56

are just... How did Dobbins

20:59

say it? He says, you meet someone and you tell yourself

21:01

a story about that person and

21:03

then you deal with that

21:05

person as if they are that story about them that

21:07

you're telling yourself. But they're not necessarily,

21:09

they're their own thing. And it reminded me of that

21:11

because to see someone who I associate with

21:13

sort of beautiful, intricate,

21:16

very funny, kind of character-driven,

21:19

clowny, hour-long shows, take

21:22

all of those skills and just let

21:24

them all loose on half an hour or

21:26

so in front of this roaring

21:28

audience. The voice, I mean, you

21:31

remember the Gareth Reynolds episode last week.

21:33

I said to Gareth Reynolds, he's such a

21:35

layered and textured improviser, you can tell what

21:37

hat his characters are wearing from their voices. Same

21:40

deal with Elf. Oh my God. Blumey away,

21:42

bloomy away. Anyway, talking of bloomy,

21:45

yeah, maybe. Let's get back to

21:48

Adam Bloom. This is, this is... I'm

21:51

just loving it. I'm just going to sit here listening

21:53

back to this and absolutely loving it. Find

21:56

the book on Amazon, it's called Finding Your Comic Genius.

21:58

You can't not have it. I don't know, should I

22:01

run a competition or something? Just,

22:03

you don't need any incentive. This, if you buy

22:05

one book about comedy, make it this, it is,

22:07

if you, if you, like me, are

22:09

aligned with sort of a delight

22:13

in technical aspects of joke writing, this

22:15

book is unique and you cannot.

22:18

Not have one, all right? Let's

22:20

get back to Adam Blim.

22:26

Where does your ego feature

22:29

in this in terms of the ego of the

22:31

performing, when you perform your own stuff

22:33

and everyone's looking at you and clapping for

22:35

you and laughing at you, where

22:38

does your ego go when you are, you're

22:40

creating the beautiful little baby of a joke and then

22:42

giving it to someone? Are you happy

22:45

for

22:46

that to be anonymous? Because

22:48

you, because, is your ego satisfied by

22:51

the creation of the work?

22:52

We, do you know what's funny? We talked about this 12 years

22:55

ago in a funny way. It was a beautiful arc because

22:57

the very first question you asked me was,

23:00

do you have to be a comedian? And

23:02

I said, yes. Yes, because when you first

23:04

became a comedian, the white noise in your head stopped. Wow,

23:06

wow. I remember that very vividly, yeah. 400 and

23:09

something episodes, you've been trying to get my answer. Yeah, that's

23:11

not even from the transcript. I absolutely remember

23:13

that moment, yeah. Well, I mean, if

23:16

someone's keen enough to listen to the other

23:18

episode, six,

23:20

at the very end, we talked

23:22

about writing and then I concluded that

23:25

I didn't have to be a comedian as long as I'm putting

23:27

something creative out there in the world. And

23:29

that, as pretentious as that might sound, is

23:32

actually what matters. Being

23:34

on stage and getting that thrill is amazing.

23:36

And the thing

23:39

I need to do

23:40

is be creative.

23:42

Yes.

23:43

Here's a question that might go nowhere

23:46

because of the way I'm

23:49

feeling about it.

23:51

I wonder, I've got to try and say this in

23:53

a way that means I can leave it in without being negative

23:55

about myself. Having,

23:57

and this is a sentence I probably.

23:59

overuse I feel because of not

24:02

only my own gigs but also this podcast I

24:04

feel like I have drunk pretty deeply from the

24:06

well of stand-up comedy over the last 12 years 18

24:09

years of you know

24:11

I sometimes find that

24:14

the buzz wears off a

24:15

bit fast a bit too fast these

24:17

days after a gig and I barely

24:20

made it to the car before I'm thinking alright

24:22

what's next you know and I feel

24:25

like I have less ego these

24:27

days I have less need I'm

24:29

less desperate I'm happier I've

24:31

done a lot of therapy and I need

24:34

to be a comedian a bit less I think right

24:37

and although I would never say that I'm

24:39

bored of comedy I did get

24:41

into it in order to have I realized I think

24:43

I got into it in order to have adventures and

24:47

and novelty and

24:48

different stuff there's no one left to

24:50

sleep with is there

24:53

there is no one

24:54

there's no there are there are plenty

24:57

of rooms left I haven't been in but of the

24:59

rooms that I'm in I'm pretty used to those

25:01

rooms now and even the

25:04

even the incredible multiplicity of what

25:06

you know in the infinite number I mean you'll know better

25:08

than I do how many how

25:11

many possibilities you can get out of 52 cards

25:13

in a deck how many possible orders even

25:15

bigger than that the amount of different people in a room

25:17

you can play to I sometimes have

25:20

found myself thinking maybe I

25:22

need a bit of a break from this because it's

25:24

just this again for me that break

25:27

has almost come in the form of a big change I've started

25:29

writing a lot of comedy recently about the climate

25:31

and the climate crisis very specific climate and stuff

25:34

and that has been so difficult that it's

25:36

been a fresh challenge and that's kind of kept

25:38

me going I suppose the question

25:40

is are you ever bored

25:43

I suppose by the familiarity

25:46

or the routine or the regularity of the types

25:48

of experiences that you have

25:50

well I remember during

25:52

the last stages of writing my book I was

25:54

on stage to 400 people it was that roaring

25:57

storming atmosphere and I was

25:59

I wasn't

26:00

excited because I almost felt that

26:03

right now this is the most important thing for me.

26:06

And I came off stage quite angry with myself.

26:08

I thought, you are not going to give

26:10

the best performance if 400

26:13

people scream with laughter. It isn't exciting

26:15

because that hunger in a younger

26:18

comedian of getting that, you know, once

26:20

you start storming when you're younger and you're newer

26:22

rather, you ride it. They

26:24

go, oh my God, this is the best thing in the world. And you

26:26

are going to give the best performance. It's very dangerous

26:29

if you have an audience roaring with laughter and you

26:32

risk letting that slip because you're

26:34

not as excited as they are, especially with my persona

26:36

because I'm excitable and frenetic.

26:39

So when I had that moment, I had

26:41

a little talk with myself when you can

26:43

never take for granted a room

26:46

of people really enjoying you because you

26:48

owe it to them to give them the best gig you can do. So

26:53

that was a real, a very

26:55

important moment. And it was only two weeks

26:58

ago. And I remember

27:00

thinking it was three weeks ago. And I remember

27:02

thinking this is a very, you know, you

27:04

talk about hungry young people in any

27:06

industry, you know, who want

27:08

it. You don't ever want to be a

27:10

comedian on a bill who doesn't have,

27:13

who has the, imagine having the worst gig

27:15

of the night because everyone else wanted

27:17

it and you didn't. That's awful. That's

27:20

time to consider stopping, in my opinion. If

27:22

that happens, if that repeatedly happens, then

27:25

it's a job and comedy should never

27:27

be a job. It should be a lifestyle connected

27:29

to your love of an art form. You

27:31

know, I remember once junglers were

27:34

doing the Christmas parties and they were paying one

27:37

and a half times the normal rate. And

27:40

one of the comedians went, it's time and a half, isn't

27:42

it? And I thought, you

27:44

know, you're not in an office job. Time

27:47

and a half what they'd say when you were a bartender in

27:49

New Year's Eve and the boss says, right,

27:51

it's time and a half. By the way, I love being a bartender,

27:53

but nonetheless, it was a job. So

27:57

a comedian said time and a half is

27:59

a. We all sign that they're going to work.

28:02

Yes, okay. Time and a half.

28:04

Yes, okay. But we are

28:07

going to work. Like there is an industry

28:09

element, and you might imagine that the jungler's

28:11

Christmas gigs are like, okay, this isn't going

28:14

to be the fun time where you get to, you

28:17

know, flex your comedy muscles necessarily.

28:19

You know, you're going to be, it might feel more

28:22

workperson-like. Imagine

28:25

having a card and having to clock in by the microphone. It

28:29

reminds me of Henning's old beginning, where he used to start his

28:31

timer. He had his neck, you remember?

28:34

No, no, no, sorry. But yeah, okay, I

28:36

suppose that I should be more forgiving of that

28:38

sentence. But back to the point,

28:40

it's

28:41

when you're on stage having a good

28:43

gig to an audience who really want to be there, it

28:46

should never ever feel like

28:48

a job. It's art. Art

28:51

isn't a job. Imagine Picasso

28:53

going, oh God, three more hours I can stop

28:55

this painting. He

28:58

may have thought that. No, no! No!

29:02

Well, why is it... oh, go on. I

29:04

want to read you a Picasso quote. Listen

29:07

to this, right? Give me a second.

29:10

Okay.

29:13

Okay, here we go.

29:15

You can edit the pause out, right? Okay.

29:19

Right, this is Picasso. We

29:22

artists are indestructible. Even

29:26

in a prison or concentration camp, I would

29:28

be almighty in my own world of art. Even if

29:30

I had to paint my pictures with my

29:32

wet tongue on the dusty floor of

29:34

my cell.

29:35

Wow.

29:37

That's a great quote. The

29:40

question is, why is that so important

29:42

to you? What is it... Obviously, that is

29:44

a wonderful, romantic, exciting... Oh,

29:47

not romantic, you know, sentimental, vivid,

29:50

sort of earthy kind of a quote, writing,

29:52

you know, very evocative, what have you. Why

29:54

is it so important to you that you can get to

29:56

it on your phone in a couple of seconds? Because I

29:59

picture...

30:00

Picasso in a cell, locked

30:03

in a small cell. Dust as well, the dust

30:05

is beautiful because dust is a sign it's not the tarter, right? And

30:08

he leans forward with his tongue and

30:10

he makes little shapes and as he looks

30:12

at the thing, he

30:14

feels, he is

30:17

massive and the world

30:20

is under him. So the

30:22

world's the prison and he's God looking

30:24

down at the world, his complete switch around and

30:27

he's looking at the thing, the power that

30:29

he has because when he creates something he

30:32

can look at that dust and go,

30:34

I created something amazing and of course a

30:36

Picasso in dust would be

30:38

worth the fortune.

30:40

For sure, yes. I mean I know the value of it is actually

30:42

irrelevant because being almighty is actually

30:44

going to be an unknown artist to be almighty. But

30:46

my point is, forget the value of that thing,

30:50

in fact the value is completely irrelevant. He

30:52

can look down at his work of brilliance and

30:54

feel almighty.

30:56

And great, more,

30:59

drill more into that, why for you?

31:02

Erm, I've

31:05

got a really nice tongue.

31:06

Why

31:10

do you, why are you so electrified

31:13

by that concept

31:16

of art

31:17

making you powerful? Because

31:19

it doesn't matter how tough

31:21

your life is,

31:23

when you're on stage in the zone,

31:26

you have no problems.

31:28

So the prison cell is for me,

31:31

represents the

31:33

troubled life and throat you and

31:35

the art on the floor represents

31:37

me doing something creative. So I've gone through lots

31:40

of bad stuff since I last saw you and

31:43

when I'm on stage, it doesn't matter how bad things

31:45

are, I'm almighty in that moment.

31:48

Okay.

31:50

Thank you, that was a great answer.

31:51

Oh wonderful. I'm interested in, I

31:54

suppose I have an interviewer's interest

31:56

in the lots of bad stuff you've gone through

31:58

but only so much as it potates.

31:59

to the discussion. I mean there's

32:02

a danger with podcasting you go go

32:04

on cry and then I'll record it and

32:06

video it and then we'll get some hits. Well

32:11

I would talk about the problem but my writers off.

32:13

Well I'm

32:16

sorry I'm sorry to hear

32:18

that bad stuff has been happening like it's such is

32:21

life I guess. Let's

32:24

talk about your because

32:27

that that kind of I don't know I let

32:29

I want to get stuck into the book next I'm just wondering if there's

32:31

anything else on that I mean it's such

32:33

a good like painting in the dust with

32:36

your tongue your

32:39

how much of your output

32:43

feels like

32:45

it is sort of

32:47

exploding with that concept

32:50

like is it do you get that kind of connection

32:52

to the infinite with on some

32:55

level with every joke or is it

32:57

a case of some of these jokes are fine

32:59

but if it bang that's one

33:02

waff there it is I'm writing in the dust with

33:04

my tongue

33:05

what I mean not every

33:07

joke you write can't be your best joke right it can't it

33:09

can't be but you have to have a quality control

33:11

bar and you have to go you know does it fit my persona

33:14

because anyone has thought of it and and I

33:17

think that when you have a night when

33:19

I have an idea that I feel is in the top top

33:21

right let's say there's a B and C when

33:24

I come out with an A and I'm I was at top secret

33:26

the other day and I did a brand new joke and I closed

33:28

on a brand new I closed the

33:30

brand new joke and it got that the whole room like

33:33

that's the best feeling you can have

33:35

as a comedian a brand new joke killing

33:38

first time it doesn't happen very often you

33:40

know you I've done brand new jokes I've got silence you

33:42

know that documentary comedian with Jerry Seinfeld

33:45

he gets his standing ovation walking on and

33:47

he does a joke to complete silence and

33:49

an English girl in the audience in New York goes

33:52

is this your first time which is a brutal

33:55

brutal heckle I was

33:57

quite proud of England which is a baby English

34:00

comment. I don't think Americans are too

34:02

supportive. Yeah, we go, Jerry, we go,

34:04

Jerry. She's like, this is your first time to the

34:06

biggest comedian on the planet at the time. So

34:09

yeah, I mean, a brand new joke,

34:11

I wish I was more prolific than I am, but

34:14

a brand new joke, killing is the most almighty

34:16

feeling. I don't mean almighty as, oh, look at

34:18

me, I'm powerful. It's a connection. You've connected

34:20

with the world. And let's

34:23

take the word almighty out of this. His

34:25

point is that, and what his point, the reason he's almighty was

34:27

because they're oppressing him, but they can't.

34:29

That's the point, right? You cannot oppress

34:32

me because I create. So forget

34:34

me. I'm not, you know, I'm not being locked into

34:36

top secret that night. I was popped

34:38

down and the feeling of

34:41

connecting, you're communicating

34:43

ideas. That's all you're doing. That's what's done with your communicating

34:46

ideas. And when the idea hits bang

34:48

and the audience fit perfectly in their brains with what

34:50

you wanted to get across, it's the

34:53

best feeling. And writing

34:55

a book, by the way, I spent eight months, it's 100,000

34:57

words. I spent eight months writing it.

35:00

The feedback and the reviews, I've

35:03

had 15 reviews on Amazon. They're

35:05

all five stars. Obviously that won't sustain

35:07

forever. But the wording of the

35:09

reviews, the longer,

35:11

more articulate ones, they've confirmed

35:14

that I've achieved exactly

35:17

what I set out to achieve. I suppose when

35:19

you wrote a feature film, you watched a cinema

35:21

and people cried at all the moments you wanted

35:23

them to cry. That would be the same thing.

35:26

And I cannot tell you, like, I

35:28

would honestly rather make a

35:32

small amount of money and get those reviews than

35:34

having made a fortune from

35:36

it and not the feedback not be

35:38

what I wanted. I don't want people, I

35:41

don't want to sell a million copies of me. Yeah, I quite liked

35:43

it. It did this for me. The things people

35:45

are saying, you know, you're communicating

35:48

something. You're going, this is how I

35:50

want people to get from this. And when they're

35:52

getting it, it's

35:54

my greatest achievement in my life

35:56

creatively. And if anyone's

35:59

thinking about writing a book, I'd love to. I've just got to say you've

36:01

got to start writing it simple as that Because

36:03

once you start if you do get the bug you

36:05

won't be able to stop when I press click For

36:08

it to be uploaded on Amazon. I had a sinking

36:10

feeling because I didn't have a project anymore.

36:12

Yes Yes well We were saying this in

36:15

over the phone weren't we that you were saying um Oh,

36:17

I miss having a book to write and I said maybe

36:19

a second book and I think your answer was I've

36:22

got nothing left. I've got nothing left to say that that

36:24

would know you said it much more positive than that You said that

36:27

book is everything I know. Yes, it

36:29

is So so let's let's

36:31

get into some detail on it. I as

36:33

I

36:35

When we when I started reading

36:37

it I It became aware very

36:39

very quickly

36:41

That I had never read anything

36:43

like it

36:44

because it is so densely packed

36:46

with Thoughts that to you.

36:48

I'm sure seem obvious

36:50

But which I've never read anywhere else We all know

36:52

there are books about how to be a comedian and

36:54

comedy writer easy steps to comedy writing and

36:57

those

36:58

Those I

36:58

haven't read all of them and I haven't

37:01

finished many of them or maybe maybe any of

37:03

them And I'm not a book-learning kind

37:05

of a person But they seem to all

37:07

the other ones to sort of to be saying

37:09

the same sort of a thing this book

37:11

you are inventing

37:13

coining minting throwing out Conceptual

37:17

stuff

37:18

over and over and over again in those first probably

37:20

the first I don't know what 10 20 pages You

37:22

know better than me when you are talking about

37:24

balloon pops Sea-sores

37:27

word smuggling the way that jokes are

37:29

either cubes or spheres and

37:31

what that means I feel like I felt

37:34

like I'd opened a Opened

37:36

a kind of a wrist into a sort of a technical

37:39

world I remember 12 years ago you described

37:41

the way you see a joke as a scalextric

37:43

track on this podcast And you would understand

37:46

the the shape of it and see it in

37:48

this kind of a beautiful mind kind of way You know

37:50

you would come to life. I feel

37:52

like you have Succeeded I've

37:55

not finished the book, but all the bits of it. I've read I

37:58

feel like you have succeeded in letting us in

38:00

on not only precisely how you

38:02

see rhythm and flow and

38:04

word choice and syntax and pauses

38:07

and everything, not

38:09

only letting us in on how you see it, but

38:11

also providing us with a manual to

38:14

recreate it. It is astonishing,

38:16

Adam. I'm

38:19

actually quite teary. I'm not... I'm

38:22

not laying this on because you're here and we're

38:24

friends. It's like

38:26

no other book I've ever seen on comedy. It's like

38:28

you are talking about things I've never heard anyone

38:31

talk about, let alone write down. I'm

38:34

crying.

38:35

It's really good, man. It's really, really

38:38

funny. I've never cried on a podcast

38:40

before. We got them! We

38:42

got them tears! So, so...

38:44

Can you see? Yeah, I

38:46

can. I did a tiny one. I've got a few.

38:49

I have to wipe it to prove it existed.

38:53

I mean, I mean every word of it. It is.

38:55

It's a thrill as a creative person

38:58

who understands to what I now feel

39:00

is a very limited extent how

39:02

my jokes work. I

39:04

can't articulate how some

39:05

of my jokes work. You can and

39:08

you can share it and help other people understand

39:10

theirs. Next, let's

39:13

talk about... give us

39:15

an example of one of those things. Which one of those would you

39:17

like to share? I don't want to disincentivise people from

39:19

reading the book for themselves. I don't want you

39:21

to go into too much detail. But I think anyone who's

39:24

made it this far into this episode is like, I'm going

39:26

to immediately buy this. And they should. Tell us

39:28

about one of those things and we'll pull it apart. OK,

39:31

so

39:32

first of all, everything I break

39:34

down is with the intention

39:37

of you benefiting from that. There's never me

39:39

just strutting and going, look what I know. No, no. There's

39:42

always a, this is how you can use it. This is where it

39:44

benefits you. Showing where a

39:47

joke has got two interpretations, therefore

39:49

it can be confusing if someone comes out the wrong exit

39:52

of the maze and how to block off the exit of

39:54

the maze you don't want to come out of. That I

39:56

think is very beneficial. And triple

39:58

punches as a tactical triple punches where

40:01

I broke down a rich hole joke.

40:04

The rich hole joke

40:07

which blew me away when I

40:09

was 25 years old, 24 years

40:11

old, he talked about, I

40:14

wish I could do his voice because it's such a lovely, gruff voice, but

40:16

he said every Christmas

40:19

when I was a kid I used to spend hours making

40:21

my mum a present and one year

40:24

I wrapped it up and put it under a tree and the next morning

40:27

she picked up and she shook it and went, oh what is it? I

40:29

said, it was a pitch of the last up on an Etch

40:32

A Sketch, right? It's

40:34

just beautiful, right? Obviously you know it's visual

40:36

shaking it and the rich's voice, but that's

40:39

a triple punch because on the word Etch A Sketch,

40:42

on the last word of the joke,

40:45

you have to make the connection between shaking

40:47

a present and shaking an Etch A Sketch to erase everything.

40:49

You get a visual image of the last up on an Etch A Sketch,

40:52

right?

40:53

And you have the emotion of empathy

40:56

for the effort he's put in

40:58

that's now completely wasted, right? And the

41:00

fact that it was wasted benevolently. To

41:03

be no one came along and kicked over his sandcastle,

41:05

she was excited. Also

41:08

Etch A Sketch is a funny word, it also

41:11

creates nostalgia so that there's a lot going

41:13

on. So forget the nostalgia in fact it's

41:15

a funny word. At that moment we have

41:17

an emotional hit, empathy,

41:20

we have a visual image, the last

41:22

supper on an Etch A Sketch, it's Christmasy as

41:24

well, 13 people, 13 people,

41:28

you can't draw that quickly, you can't draw 13 stickmen

41:30

quickly. But the visual image of the

41:32

last supper, such a

41:34

chronic painting, on an Etch A Sketch in

41:36

great, great little lines, it's beautiful,

41:39

right? So what I

41:41

did was I rewrote the joke so

41:44

that there was no triple punch. So

41:46

it was, I can't remember, that was like,

41:48

I remember one Christmas I made a picture of

41:51

the last supper on an Etch A Sketch for my mum. And

41:53

the next morning I wrapped up and she went, oh,

41:55

what is it? Right? Yeah.

41:58

That in itself is a good enough. joke,

42:00

right? There's no triple punch because the image

42:02

of extra shakes comes early. We haven't

42:05

found out it took ages to do it, so there's no real empathy.

42:07

Just a bit, I mean, with sorry

42:09

for you. But there's only one joke. She

42:12

shook it and just bit. Putting those three

42:14

things at the same time, we're

42:16

overloaded and we get the emotional

42:19

and the visual and the cerebral, as

42:21

in the cerebral, the shaking, all at once. And

42:24

that's a happy explosion in our minds.

42:27

And

42:27

to feel that for

42:30

rich, oh, hours of work, while

42:32

visualizing that, it's this is why it's

42:34

brilliant because everything

42:37

happens at once. And

42:39

if you can triple punch people like when

42:41

I used to watch Great Comedians as I was new, I

42:43

think they're really brilliant. What

42:45

they're doing, what they were

42:47

often doing was doubling triple punches on a

42:50

regular basis. So you're just being, you know, you

42:52

watch the, I saw Stephen Wright on one of those

42:54

sort of lemon type chat shows. He just talked

42:56

about his day and it was all crafted material. And

42:59

it was something like a snake in chocolate. And I

43:01

can't remember. It just went boom, boom, boom.

43:03

I just thought it's showered me with

43:08

brilliant thoughts. And if you

43:10

watch somebody doing, you know, laborious

43:13

setups

43:14

with no excitement, no visual images, I

43:16

did this, I went to the shops and then this, and then I said

43:19

something witty to the girl at Greggs who was only doing

43:21

her job properly because I outwitted

43:23

her because, ah, two for one. What if I

43:25

get that one there? And I beat her, it's goes, girl's done

43:27

nothing wrong to you. You're outwitting and boasting about

43:29

how clever you are to outwit a child

43:32

on who's only following instructions.

43:34

And there's nothing. There's just this

43:36

absolutely just words, words, words, you know,

43:40

cramming. My book's about

43:42

showing you how much can be achieved in

43:44

a few seconds and to string that out

43:46

all the rest of the world. So I'm going to do that all

43:49

the way through in our show. And just pointing

43:51

out,

43:52

you know, nice collection of sounds,

43:55

flow, rhythm, the C-SOS theory is the

43:58

reason I

43:59

I wrote this book was because two

44:02

things there was never there's no books on doing

44:05

comedy better They're all about how to do it. Yeah,

44:08

so this is work for comedians But yes the

44:10

people who have not done stand-up are

44:13

giving it good reviews And then I was really worried that

44:15

people go it's way to advance one star

44:18

But the fact of matter is that people who are new I I ran

44:21

everything by my 80 year old mother that I felt

44:23

was Complicated okay, okay,

44:25

and I said it I figured it is not 80

44:28

means your my point was she's Not

44:30

into comedy and only

44:33

once did I have to change something because she thought it

44:35

went a bit convoluted I just made it clear But

44:37

she was my check if my mum

44:39

who doesn't want to be a comedian can understand it then

44:42

Someone who wants to be to me who knows more about comedy than

44:44

my mum probably will so but the thing

44:46

is it's the target Market is people who have been

44:48

doing comedy For I suppose

44:50

at least a year, but however There

44:53

are 17 chapters on writing that are labeled with

44:55

writing so you could just read the writing first

44:57

or Make notes to the bits you don't understand

44:59

and go back when you've done a few gigs because 20 gigs

45:02

is a Hell of a lot of knowledge more than

45:04

Sunday's nobel on stage before yes, yes

45:07

but the but the other thing was because um There's

45:10

an analogy I use because I've written

45:12

for so many people I've had to learn to explain why I've

45:14

changed something of theirs So they'll go why is

45:16

that better and I have to go right into my

45:18

head and go well The

45:22

seesaw thing which is about now of

45:24

syllables either side of a pause When

45:26

there's a pause in a punchline, I've

45:29

noticed that there has to be more Notice

45:31

to be more syllables on one side of the seesaw than the

45:34

other side so has to tip one way or the other so

45:36

I realized that and my I credit my mum

45:38

for this my mum said that Your

45:41

your name. I'm afraid is not a seesaw. No, I

45:44

know Yeah, I mean of

45:46

my life I used

45:49

to think of that in terms of an author's

45:51

names on books Stephen King

45:53

to the main day you actually say so yes It's

46:00

important to Stu, Stu Goldsmith, which people,

46:02

my friends call me Stu, but it's not. It's

46:04

just, it's just, it's not a punchy

46:07

name, is it? No, I don't think it was Stu to

46:09

look at as well. I think it was Stu. But the thing is, I think

46:11

if your,

46:12

if your parents have called you John,

46:14

your career might be going a lot better. Oh, well,

46:17

you know. But

46:20

the thing is, so that, yeah, the sea salt, my mum

46:22

came up with it because she said one syllable surname is

46:24

going better with Logger's surname

46:26

than vice versa.

46:27

Yeah. So, excuse me.

46:30

So, yeah,

46:33

so, so that I realized that things like

46:35

the sea salt theory,

46:36

because someone would go, why, why is that better? And

46:39

I have to think about it. So the analogy

46:41

I use is we've all tried a shoelace 10,000

46:44

times, but if you had to describe over

46:46

the phone how to tie a shoelace, it

46:49

would be very hard without holding a shoelace in your hands.

46:51

I couldn't do it.

46:53

I mean, think about it. You're doing. Well,

46:55

funnily enough, last weekend I tried to teach my son

46:58

to tie his shoelaces and for some reason he

47:00

is absolutely rejecting because he doesn't

47:02

wear shoes with laces. He's like, why would I need to

47:04

do this? And he's also a bit of a perfectionist, which

47:06

we're trying to deal with, but he just, he will

47:08

not engage with the process. So I need it. I

47:11

thought I'll do some prep. I'll, I'll, I'll do it a few

47:13

times so I can work out how I'm going to teach

47:15

him. And it isn't complicated,

47:17

but I absolutely couldn't have described it. I was

47:20

like, I was saying to him, well, isn't this funny? I

47:22

don't know how to do this. If I do it slowly,

47:24

I can't do it because I can only do it one way fast.

47:27

But now imagine doing it over the phone. Yeah.

47:30

When you're not holding anything. Yeah.

47:32

So the thing is I, I, I

47:34

would like to invite the listener to pause and

47:36

try describing how to tie shoelaces

47:39

just in case they don't realize how on

47:41

point this analogy is. It's completely impossible.

47:43

Yeah. That could be quite a good TV game show, just

47:45

various things that we all do all the time. But you think all

47:48

the things like when you just take a lid off, you're

47:50

driving, you take a lid off a drink and you try and take

47:52

the lid off without ending spilling their little message

47:55

message that we all use. And I

47:57

watch somebody opening

47:59

a drink. And I remember thinking, oh,

48:01

I do that too. But of course he does it too. That's

48:04

how you don't get yoga all over yourself. Yeah.

48:07

Just little nuances. So I think that...

48:13

Unique, is it unique?

48:15

Because I've gone deep into

48:17

things that I have

48:19

been doing for years and

48:21

explained to other people, I think that

48:24

it's an unusual book, yeah, because it goes

48:26

so deep into obscure ideas.

48:29

And

48:31

what I learned as I was writing was I was

48:33

learning as I was describing stuff, because as I described

48:36

stuff, I went, oh, that too. So there's this thing

48:38

about something called bookending, which is the rhythm of repeating

48:40

a word in a punch line. I

48:43

found patterns, I got

48:45

four bullet points about when you repeat a word on

48:47

a punch line. And I

48:50

felt like I had an equals MC squared

48:53

moment, but I realized there's four things that

48:55

have to happen. You go, you know,

48:57

there's a bit I said you might think always comedy really

48:59

about maths. I go, no, it's about music. And I've worked

49:01

out some of the chords. Yes,

49:04

yeah, okay. Yeah, because I don't think,

49:06

you know, there's no way you can rigidly

49:09

explain comedy. And also there's another thing that if

49:12

comedy was about maths, then anyone who was clever could

49:14

do it. And you know that they can't. And I've

49:16

seen very educated

49:18

and, you know, some does

49:20

an open spot and you go, what do you do for living? I'm

49:23

a judge, I'm a high court judge, right?

49:25

But in that dressing room, they're

49:27

the open spot. Their qualifications

49:30

mean nothing because they're the one who's doing five

49:33

minutes unpaid and they're the newbie in the room.

49:35

And then you, I've seen, I've done a gig with some, they've

49:37

got into a limousine outside, literally.

49:40

And they did a really

49:44

not very good gig because they were

49:46

new and they were learning. But they got into a, someone

49:49

picked them up, a chauffeur picked them

49:51

up, I'm not kidding. And, but

49:54

the point is that if it was,

49:57

I've seen people who are very successful in the,

49:59

job, day job

50:01

and they've struggled

50:02

when they're starting out in comedy and you can see them looking

50:05

their eyes and say but I'm good at things

50:07

why is this not working? So being

50:09

funny is a very

50:11

unusual gift like

50:14

learning some to my point if someone

50:16

isn't funny they haven't got funny bones they

50:18

can't there's no book they can read that will make them suddenly

50:20

become a funny person they can understand comedy

50:22

they can write jokes better they can understand structure

50:24

better but this is why I love our job there's

50:27

no boy band in comedy

50:29

you know even the equivalent

50:31

to auto-tune would be AI

50:34

right the there's

50:36

only so good a manager can be to

50:39

push a comedian who hasn't got funniness within

50:41

them you can have all the writers in the world

50:43

that put that spark in your eye or

50:46

that lack of spark in your eye for example

50:48

if you're deadpan that thing is

50:50

a gift that's within you my my the reason

50:53

my books called finding your comic genius is

50:55

I'm trying to

50:56

help you bring out the best that you can be

50:58

and by understanding things

51:00

like triple punches and see so you can improve but

51:03

having a funny thought no that's a gift you

51:05

got

51:06

I don't even teach them to have a funny thought you

51:08

can teach them to improve a funny thought you could teach

51:10

them to

51:12

help them become a better comedian you know

51:14

that Sally Holloway's books are apparently very good for

51:16

new comedians because it shows you how to

51:19

make lists and start the ball rolling with

51:21

ideas which is great if you're new

51:24

I'm not I'm out to

51:26

make you better I'm not out to make you I'm

51:28

not out this I think somebody's never

51:30

been on stage could read my book and benefit hugely

51:32

from it but three months down the line

51:35

they're gonna benefit a lot more this

51:37

should be the source of I would imagine

51:40

I'm just wondering about like

51:41

your your your the audience

51:44

for the book improving comedians is

51:46

so small in terms

51:48

of

51:49

you know human beings on the planet

51:51

and that

51:53

like for it to really go off and it should

51:55

go off you've got a kind of crack

51:57

America with it right there are

51:59

thousands

51:59

I don't know tens to thousands hundred thousand comedians

52:02

in America I don't know but I seem to see new

52:04

ones on Instagram reels every single day and go

52:07

oh this person's clearly been going 20 years Never heard the

52:09

name of my life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what

52:11

what what will you do

52:14

to help that happen? But all right

52:16

Content that it exists and the manuscripts

52:18

will be passed from comic to comic and when

52:21

you're a little old man people go he was the guy It's

52:24

um eight percent of sales are in America

52:26

of my book at the moment. Okay, and I've

52:28

advertised on Instagram specifically

52:31

in California, New York Because

52:34

I got quotes from Ricky Gervais and Jim Jeffries,

52:37

yeah, who are both big in the States I

52:41

Top and bottom in the title of it small. Um,

52:43

so it's I'm getting I'm getting it at least known

52:46

in the states Um, Joe Rogan

52:49

will be having a copy

52:51

Handed to him very soon

52:54

Whether he reads it or not, I don't know

52:57

But that's that's good Ricky

53:00

Gervais has got a copy Whether

53:02

he reads it or not, I don't know but that's two

53:04

giants in America I

53:08

Know I know I've created something special

53:10

because of the feedback I was The

53:13

ritual moment I that was like, okay something's

53:15

going on. There were maybe 20 moments

53:19

when I just went I just absolutely

53:22

nailed a point

53:23

like you can't

53:25

You can't not agree with that because it's like

53:27

a lawyer going back. Here's all the evidence and now bang

53:30

So that so I am very excited

53:34

And it's if it's taking me eight

53:36

months to write it. I'd be a fool not to spend

53:38

another couple of years Keep

53:41

getting the ball rolling. I mean it is selling and it's it's

53:43

you know It's it best selling in three categories at the moment

53:45

in England and one in America that they're

53:48

very specific categories That's

53:50

the secret of that's the secret of book sales on Amazon.

53:52

I believe I'm best

53:54

selling books written by them bloom this year. Yeah

53:59

And so Which is

54:01

why I'm not about another one. Yeah,

54:04

you know, don't even come second with

54:06

that category. I

54:09

made a note to ask you about

54:12

Douglas Adams, and specifically,

54:14

it's when you were talking about the kind of

54:16

the sort of comedy that you don't enjoy watching.

54:19

I always remember this thing whereby Douglas Adams

54:21

said that he didn't like stand-up, and

54:23

the reason he gave was that he saw someone

54:26

do a joke about the

54:29

black box flight recorders on planes. They're indestructible,

54:32

says the comedian. Why don't they make, why are

54:34

they so stupid? Why don't they make the whole plane

54:37

out of that indestructible stuff? And Douglas

54:39

Adams was writing about it saying it would be too

54:41

heavy to take off. That's not, to

54:43

the mean, that's like, that is stupid.

54:45

It's unscientific. And I'm

54:48

just interested, I think there are parallels between that

54:50

and the way you sit, like you're saying, you know,

54:54

mimicking a newer or a lazier

54:56

comic saying, oh, I, you

54:58

know, a person in Greg's and I won the situation,

55:01

look at me. I'm not sure

55:03

what the question is. It's something I'm interested

55:05

in.

55:08

You mentioned in the book a few times kind

55:10

of your insistence that there be no hackery.

55:12

I remember you said on your first appearance on this

55:14

podcast, if you come up with an idea for a joke,

55:17

but it's conceptually well-worn,

55:19

not even the subject. If the type

55:21

of joke has been done a few times,

55:23

that puts you off it.

55:25

Yeah, there's so much I want to say now. A

55:28

subject cannot be hacked. A

55:30

joke can be hacked. So people say, I want

55:32

to do a joke about

55:35

driving my kids to school, or is that hack?

55:38

A premise can't be hacked. Like,

55:41

a million people might have talked about getting the munchies

55:44

when they're when they smoke weed,

55:46

but a great joke about getting the munchies which broke

55:48

weed is still a great joke. If

55:52

anything, taking a, well, I don't

55:54

really address very well trodden parts

55:56

by choice. However, if

55:59

you talked about

56:01

the first

56:03

time you have sex with your partner, losing

56:06

virginity, and you come out of a line that

56:08

is unbelievably good, arguably

56:11

that's a greater achievement because everyone's had a

56:13

go at that subject. So actually, you've come

56:15

up with something differently that everyone's tried

56:17

to talk about and you still found something new. So

56:19

a subject can't be hacked, a joke can be hacked,

56:22

the structure of a joke can be hacked, but a

56:25

subject in itself, by definition, can't be hacked.

56:28

It's a complete misconception. The

56:31

Douglas Adams thing, I actually would

56:33

have laughed at that joke because

56:34

I had to spend my disbelief that it's

56:36

possible. I don't,

56:39

if the comedian thinks all

56:41

aircraft designers are stupid and they're clever

56:44

than them, if they present that that way, then

56:46

that's not good comedy. But as a throwaway comment,

56:49

it's indestructible. Why don't they make the plan out of it? At

56:51

that moment, then I think that, you know, I think that as

56:54

long as the comedian doesn't genuinely believe they've

56:56

rewritten the rules of air flight,

56:59

whatever the word is, then it's a good joke.

57:01

I think that's quite a humorous

57:03

way of looking at it. But

57:05

there's one thing I just checked, I do call virtual

57:08

comedy and I want

57:10

to avoid it all because

57:12

there are three types of virtual comedy. One

57:15

is making fun of something that's already

57:17

a joke. Yes.

57:19

That is a horribly embarrassing thing to witness.

57:21

Absolutely, absolutely. It's

57:24

so cringe worthy when someone

57:26

has missed it and it happens on the internet all the time.

57:28

Oh really? Oh yeah, of course, if people are, you know,

57:31

on Twitter or Instagram or whatever, someone

57:33

will post a picture of something like, oh, look

57:35

at this. And you go, yep, that's what they intended. And

57:38

ambiguity was absolutely what they intended. So

57:40

you're making a fool of yourself by mocking somebody because

57:43

they've been funny and you failed to get the joke. It's

57:45

painful to watch. Another form

57:47

of virtual comedy is finding

57:49

a flaw in something without

57:51

understanding it.

57:52

So the example I put in the book was,

57:54

oh, I saw a sign out on a shop said, no

57:57

dogs apart from guide dogs. Well, they're not going to be able

57:59

to read that, are they, blind?

57:59

Well, yeah, it's for everyone else to read. Yeah.

58:02

Or possibly someone who's with a blind person, so that's

58:05

okay, we can go. But

58:07

I saw a sign in the street, it said to the blind school,

58:09

who's that for? Yeah. Friends of the people

58:11

who go... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So

58:14

that kind of mocking something, mocking

58:16

the logic in something,

58:18

because you don't understand it,

58:19

that's number... And number three

58:22

is making people laugh at something by reminding

58:24

them of something they've laughed at. Like, hey,

58:26

Jerry Spinner, you get some crazy people on that show, don't

58:28

you? And everyone laughs. You can

58:31

perform something well when you do an act-out

58:33

of Jerry Spinner, good performance. You can

58:36

put your spin on it and be creative as your... But

58:40

if you're only reminding someone of what they've laughed

58:42

at before, then

58:43

you're not creating comedy. I saw a... I saw

58:45

a... This is an equivalent in the world of magic. I

58:47

saw... I won't name them. I'll tell them

58:49

and we'll take it out. So let's take this out. He's

58:52

called Mario the Maker Magician. Have you heard

58:54

of him? No. He's like the best kids magician

58:56

in the world. Basically, it was supposed to be. That is brand.

58:58

He's done set history. I imagine he gets paid 50 grand

59:01

a time to entertain the children of Sultan. Wow. It

59:03

couldn't be cleaner. Let's

59:05

lose all of that. I saw a

59:08

magician recently,

59:10

let's say, and he did

59:12

this thing of... At one

59:15

point, he... There was lots of emotional manipulation

59:17

in it in a way that I really wasn't comfortable

59:19

with. I kind of like... I suffered

59:21

the effects of the emotional manipulation. He

59:24

asked us to remember a much-loved

59:26

teacher from when we were at school whilst

59:28

he played some music from a much-loved film

59:30

that we all feel emotional about and everyone

59:32

teared up. Afterwards, a friend texted me

59:34

and said, did you cry at the teacher

59:37

bit? I said, well, yes. But he

59:39

doesn't own that. He didn't earn

59:41

that. He made me think of a thing he knew

59:43

would make me cry whilst playing some music that someone

59:45

else wrote that they associated with

59:48

someone else's piece of art, some movie that

59:50

I'm emotionally invested in. It

59:52

was almost like virtual meaning to use

59:54

the kind of virtual comedy term. There

59:56

was an Edinburgh show that I saw that I didn't

59:58

like.

59:59

a journalist who I won't

1:00:01

name, gave it five stars.

1:00:04

And I went up to them and I said,

1:00:06

what did you like about that show? Because I thought it was awful.

1:00:09

And they said, well, when

1:00:11

he asked me to

1:00:13

shut my eyes and think of somebody I

1:00:15

love who's not with me anymore, I

1:00:18

had such a vivid picture of my grandmother.

1:00:21

I'm like, then he should be giving

1:00:23

you five stars. Yeah.

1:00:26

I wonder, Ludacris,

1:00:29

I mean, how easily were they

1:00:31

tricked into thinking they saw a good show?

1:00:34

So is there,

1:00:36

is there a sort of a,

1:00:38

not a contradiction or a parallel,

1:00:41

some relationship between someone

1:00:44

who deals in

1:00:46

emotional rhythms and almost like

1:00:48

emotion smuggling rather than words

1:00:50

smuggling? I mean, is there like, is

1:00:52

that not also an acceptable

1:00:55

art form? Given that what we're talking

1:00:57

about is we have to make them

1:00:59

laugh. We have to make them all laugh at the same

1:01:02

time by arranging reality such

1:01:04

that it all hits them at the right time.

1:01:07

Is there not, is not the sort of the emotionally manipulative

1:01:10

performer doing something similar but with

1:01:12

emotions?

1:01:12

I've only got a problem with an

1:01:15

audience being made to laugh by simply

1:01:17

being told about something that they laughed at when they last saw

1:01:19

it. I don't have any problem

1:01:22

with a comedian bringing your emotions by. I

1:01:25

wouldn't have a problem with a comedian asking

1:01:27

you to think of someone you, who you've lost

1:01:29

recently and then being creative after that moment.

1:01:32

No, if your emotions that they evoke springboard

1:01:35

creativity, fine. I don't mind

1:01:37

if they ask you to think of four people

1:01:39

in a row who you've lost and then say something

1:01:41

funny. I don't care. I just have

1:01:44

a problem with

1:01:46

saying something to you that

1:01:49

you've seen a laugh at

1:01:50

and then moving on. But

1:01:53

if they go, hey, Jerry Spinger, you get

1:01:55

some crazy people that show that when Jerry Spinger

1:01:57

was out, I saw four

1:01:59

or five people. reasons just describe

1:02:01

what they saw on Jerry Springer and you're into howling I've

1:02:04

seen people laughing at the mention

1:02:06

of the show yeah like I mean

1:02:08

I did a chat together with Sacha Baron

1:02:10

Cohen who's doing an Ali

1:02:12

G in his pomp

1:02:14

and the MC

1:02:16

said well we've got a very special guest

1:02:18

now he's been on the 11 o'clock

1:02:20

show the

1:02:22

audience started I've never seen this before

1:02:24

or since they started laughing at

1:02:27

the memory

1:02:28

of how good isn't that incredible they

1:02:30

were not great the

1:02:33

Ali G hadn't even been named yet and the audience were

1:02:35

laughing they were laughing because

1:02:37

they were remembering

1:02:39

Ali G

1:02:40

I've never seen that I've worked with some

1:02:42

of the biggest names in the world I've been on the bill Robin Williams

1:02:45

the the audience were laughing

1:02:48

at the description of the community about

1:02:50

to see now if you bear that in mind

1:02:52

with how funny Jerry Springer was at the time and how entertaining

1:02:55

was go oh what

1:02:57

she showed the other day who's seen the Jerry Springer show and I

1:02:59

saw this woman Tom Adjupan as she started

1:03:01

chuckling

1:03:03

he has said the title of

1:03:04

a show and they're laughing how is that possibly

1:03:06

creative it's not the comedians thought they laugh

1:03:09

but it is the comedians thought that they went on to describe

1:03:11

what was on the show if you do a brilliant

1:03:13

act out and you're you know I I can't do

1:03:15

actions if you do a really good Louisiana

1:03:19

accent and you do make the face

1:03:21

of that person having an argument that that's creative

1:03:24

but if you're gonna make the audience laugh at something they've already

1:03:27

laughed at that better be a good performance

1:03:29

otherwise you're not actually doing anything

1:03:32

it's that's really interesting to me I don't

1:03:34

disagree but I think it's it's

1:03:36

I'm interested in how passionate

1:03:38

you are about that because I

1:03:41

remember I don't know if we spoke about this last time but

1:03:43

I I have this one of the ways in which

1:03:45

I would describe you and how intense

1:03:47

you are about comedy to a friend that

1:03:49

didn't know you I might say and I'm

1:03:52

sure I've said this three or four times that two different people

1:03:55

I'd have said like oh Adam he really

1:03:57

understands it on a mathematical level he'll

1:03:59

see you do a joke at the comedy store that gets a standing

1:04:01

ovation and you'll come up and it'll tell you the joke doesn't

1:04:03

work. Now that might

1:04:05

not be, I've been saying that for years, I might have pinched that of

1:04:07

someone else in which case I apologize, but do you

1:04:09

know what I mean? I think you can recognise the

1:04:12

sort of truth in that. They all gave me

1:04:14

a standing ovation because they loved it so much and

1:04:16

they laughed until they cried and they'll come off

1:04:18

and you go yeah yeah it doesn't work. Obviously,

1:04:23

well I wouldn't say it doesn't work if it worked because

1:04:27

my skill is explaining why something fails and

1:04:29

putting it together again like a mechanic. But you might, you

1:04:31

know, one might argue that the person

1:04:33

who mentioned Jerry Springer and everyone was falling

1:04:35

about laughing, that worked, their

1:04:38

job was to make people laugh. No, no, no, no, no,

1:04:40

no, this is the thing, the virtual comedy

1:04:42

chapter is different to every other chapter because

1:04:45

I'm talking about something that's working in

1:04:47

an

1:04:48

unjustified way. Now I

1:04:51

cannot tell someone you're not allowed to make

1:04:53

people laugh about something they've already laughed at, but audiences

1:04:55

will go home and forget that

1:04:57

experience

1:04:58

because it's an empty, it's

1:05:01

a knee jerk

1:05:02

laugh. There is no, they're not going to go,

1:05:04

you know what I really loved was when that comedian reminded

1:05:07

me of a show that I watched that was funny.

1:05:09

They're not going to, there's no substance, it

1:05:11

won't stay with them.

1:05:12

I understand what you mean, just

1:05:15

to argue the point and it refers to a specific

1:05:17

comic who isn't known to me and

1:05:19

hasn't been on the podcast. So I hope you,

1:05:21

I mentioned this with respect for this person's

1:05:24

craft.

1:05:25

If you think of Peter Kay

1:05:27

talking about Mum's video

1:05:29

or that kind of nostalgic humour

1:05:32

where, you know, what,

1:05:34

how does your mind approach that kind of stuff?

1:05:36

There's a big difference. Observational comedy

1:05:39

when done well is pointing out things

1:05:41

you do all the time but hadn't thought about

1:05:43

until then. And that, you

1:05:45

know, that is, it's

1:05:48

beautiful. Dominic Holland once said, um, Marks

1:05:50

and Spencers isn't so much a shop, more of a shortcut

1:05:52

to other shops. It's

1:05:56

beautiful, right? But

1:05:57

you can go, that's reminding you of something. No,

1:05:59

it's an... It's minutiae.

1:06:01

I remember

1:06:03

Dominic Holland again did a thing

1:06:05

about when you're on the tube and you're reading your paper

1:06:07

and you can see someone else is looking at your paper and

1:06:11

you think, oh, I haven't finished reading this article but

1:06:13

I think I'm going to turn the pages anyway. And

1:06:17

I screamed when he said that because I didn't

1:06:19

deliver it that well. But the point is that

1:06:23

turning a page to spite somebody

1:06:25

who's looking at your paper to get rid

1:06:28

of them. Now,

1:06:30

isn't that reminding you of something that's funny? No. That's

1:06:33

pointing out details in your life that you've never

1:06:35

thought about until that comedian drew your attention

1:06:37

to it. I remember laughing at Jerry Spinner's

1:06:39

show. I didn't need someone to remind me

1:06:42

I'd laugh at it because I know I'd laugh at it. It's

1:06:44

very different things. Great observational

1:06:47

comedy is a beautiful thing. Peter

1:06:49

Kay talked about things that we all did. By

1:06:52

the way, Peter Kay is the epitome

1:06:54

of a funny person doing material. Peter Kay is

1:06:57

that thing about you can read the phone book and make it sound funny.

1:06:59

If anyone can read the phone book

1:07:01

and make it funny, Peter Kay, the face that's best in the movement. Matt

1:07:04

Lucas said to me once, there

1:07:05

are a lot of great comedians of our generation but the

1:07:08

only one that sweats funny, even

1:07:10

sweats funny, is Peter Kay. Isn't that lovely?

1:07:12

Even sweats funny. I love that. But

1:07:15

Peter Kay supported me on a unit tour in 1997

1:07:18

and he was phenomenal. And

1:07:20

I just watched him. There's no MC.

1:07:22

Just walk on stage and get an audience in the palm

1:07:24

of his hand immediately. A funny

1:07:28

person doing material. I'm so glad I quoted that with

1:07:30

the Adam thing because the funniness that comes

1:07:32

off you is the most important thing. So when

1:07:35

somebody is incredibly charismatic, has

1:07:37

got funny bones and they do something that's quite simplistic,

1:07:39

I'm fine with that. And I even say in my book, not

1:07:42

all comedy has to be inventive. But

1:07:44

if you're only

1:07:46

going to get laughs in a routine by

1:07:48

just reminding people what something they've laughed at, it's

1:07:51

empty. They won't go home feeling that there's

1:07:53

so many different types of

1:07:55

laughs. And when you get that rich laugh that

1:07:58

Doug Stanner talks about, brutal truths

1:08:00

in life about the way they behave. And Tim Vine's just

1:08:03

silly joy of life and puns and wordplay. They're

1:08:05

very different, but

1:08:06

they're great feelings. They're

1:08:09

both as valuable to me. But when

1:08:11

you walk away or you get home and you, I

1:08:14

mean, isn't it lovely when you chuckle to yourself about

1:08:16

something a comedian said

1:08:17

an hour ago? Isn't that lovely? When

1:08:19

you wake up, you know, I think the biggest

1:08:22

compliment I had was a guy said to me, last time

1:08:24

I saw you, I woke up and I was laughing and I

1:08:26

woke up. And I go, that's, you're really

1:08:28

spreading joy. Now I don't think anyone's going

1:08:30

to wake up and go, that comedian reminded

1:08:33

me of the joke. Yes, I get very well articulated.

1:08:36

I think that is the difference, isn't it? That is the difference.

1:08:38

And those moments, the most satisfying, some of

1:08:40

the most satisfying moments in my comedy career are

1:08:43

when a friend or another comic says, oh,

1:08:45

me and my wife, you know that beat you do about so-and-so, me

1:08:47

and my wife mentioned that every time. Every time we have

1:08:50

a curry, we say your thing that you did in your room. Yeah,

1:08:52

it's lovely. It's just magnificent. So

1:08:55

yeah, so it's, but it's, I mean, but the

1:08:57

reason, so the virtual comedy chapter is different

1:08:59

to another chapter, because it's just, it's like a warning,

1:09:02

just trying to avoid this, because I think, you know,

1:09:05

saying,

1:09:07

oh, I saw a sign outside the shop saying, no

1:09:09

dogs, apart from guide dogs, well, who's that for? Audiences

1:09:12

will laugh at that, because they haven't really had time

1:09:14

to think about how pointless that line

1:09:17

is. They will laugh. If it's done with confidence,

1:09:19

you know, with the right conviction, and

1:09:22

then people, you know, I mean, I've

1:09:24

done ad libs when I'm having a good gig,

1:09:27

and I've had a response to a haircut, it's got a huge laugh. And on the

1:09:29

way home, I thought about it, I went, that didn't make any sense.

1:09:31

Yeah, any sense. They're faster with confidence

1:09:34

than they just went for it. Faster with confidence, yeah. They believed,

1:09:36

you had them up there in the air, to the extent that they

1:09:38

just thought, well, this guy's magic, anything he says is

1:09:40

funny, and they just, it managed to

1:09:42

sustain. Yeah, well, you mentioned earlier

1:09:45

that I said all jokes are either balls or cubes, which

1:09:48

is obviously quite a lot to go into now, but I had

1:09:50

a bit of, a very emotional

1:09:52

final bit to

1:09:55

a routine, it's very heartfelt, very heartfelt, going

1:09:57

back, going through trouble, and getting out the outside.

1:10:00

end of troubled time and there's

1:10:02

a call back at the end and it's a building rolling

1:10:04

energy rolling rolling rolling this was this was

1:10:07

definitely a ball

1:10:08

hitting a cube now I'm

1:10:10

going to put without just explaining

1:10:13

it. Let me see if I can explain it in 30 seconds. Okay.

1:10:15

Jokes of balls or cubes balls

1:10:18

roll without you give them a tiny push and

1:10:20

they roll cubes you've got to give them a real whack

1:10:23

so if you've got a joke that's a cube e.g. it

1:10:25

isn't getting across kind of rhythmically with

1:10:27

an audience if you do a joke that's a ball first

1:10:30

the ball will hit the cube and it will make suddenly

1:10:32

your cube joke that didn't work will now work is

1:10:34

that right? Perfect. Yeah perfect. So yeah so

1:10:36

a cube will be a cerebral

1:10:39

joke with no emotion or visual images

1:10:41

it's just something that's very clever and short and

1:10:44

it will often die because there's no energy in the

1:10:46

room so if you wait till there's energy

1:10:48

in the room to do it then it will work or you write

1:10:50

a joke before it that pushes it along and

1:10:53

like this is a close to infallible method

1:10:55

and the point is I talked about a joke

1:10:57

that was a cube that was getting silence so I

1:10:59

wrote two balls before it to push it along

1:11:02

and it worked every time and the jokes no different

1:11:04

it just needed it because comedians come up they go yeah

1:11:06

they didn't get that joke how do you know?

1:11:08

How did they didn't

1:11:11

get it? Maybe they didn't like you? Maybe

1:11:13

they were bored? Maybe there was just not

1:11:15

I watched a comedian got a joke and not laughed

1:11:17

so how dare you think everyone said that

1:11:19

the whole of it was stupid then you walk away with this

1:11:22

whole of a delusion you're too clever for your audience

1:11:24

or have contempt for the other comedians who did well

1:11:27

because that means the audience got them but not

1:11:29

me I'm so clever that I don't like you because you're below

1:11:31

me it's an awful attitude it can be a joke

1:11:33

didn't work because the audience weren't committed to getting it or

1:11:36

weren't or they got it and didn't laugh because they

1:11:38

just went oh yeah that's a cube. The point

1:11:40

is I did it the comedian

1:11:43

Brighton and I did this massive rolling

1:11:45

energy ball ball ball and it had a call

1:11:47

back at the end at the end it's emotional just

1:11:50

massive rolling ball and it

1:11:52

got the biggest as big a laugh as it's ever got and

1:11:54

I came off Christian Riley went you know you

1:11:56

didn't do the setup to that call back I

1:11:58

had no idea

1:11:59

audience screamed with laughter purely

1:12:02

because of emotion and energy

1:12:04

and conviction and they were having a good time. The

1:12:08

joke made no sense

1:12:09

and it's quite worrying isn't it?

1:12:11

The audience can scream. What's the point

1:12:13

of doing all their effort if they can scream at

1:12:16

something that didn't make sense? Well one of the things I

1:12:18

wanted to ask is could you, just sort of always

1:12:20

as a thought experiment,

1:12:22

could

1:12:23

let's call them an evil comedian,

1:12:26

let's call them a hack, let's call them a could your

1:12:28

book be abused to do all

1:12:30

of the things you think are

1:12:32

terrible? Like could you do the opposite of the book and

1:12:34

be successful and be a successful hack?

1:12:38

If you've made it from back to front Mike,

1:12:40

if you play a record back to the satanic

1:12:43

songs. Exactly, that chapter on virtual

1:12:45

comedy you're sort of saying look you can get away

1:12:47

with this, the audiences will laugh

1:12:50

at some of these things, you could use that if

1:12:52

you are a extremely

1:12:54

attractive Instagram comic with

1:12:56

a lot of confidence you could go you go

1:12:59

oh virtual comedy I'll do that and you

1:13:01

accidentally create the world's worst genre.

1:13:04

The worst thing is if they read the other 31 chapters

1:13:07

they could also

1:13:08

apply the methods and do some really well crafted

1:13:10

virtual comedy, that's my idea of hell yeah that

1:13:13

would be my idea of health. You

1:13:15

know what's funny is

1:13:19

my wife lived in Amsterdam and we spent the first year

1:13:21

going back and forth to the very romantic back and forth and

1:13:24

about three weeks into

1:13:26

our relationship I did some shows in Germany and

1:13:28

she came over to visit me in Vampstam. Now the

1:13:31

audiences were all German, all the

1:13:33

comedians were German and I was the only non-German

1:13:35

comedian and they had made an announcement after the show

1:13:37

in German and the whole audience

1:13:39

went like groaned and I went I'm

1:13:42

backstage about to go on I said what did he say he said

1:13:44

the next act is gonna be in English. Yeah.

1:13:47

So 300 people

1:13:49

groaned like oh no not an English-speaking

1:13:52

comedian because they were older this was 2003 they were

1:13:56

older so they learned Russian as a second language so

1:13:58

they didn't want an English comedian. I don't know why I was being

1:14:00

booked there. I went out on stage and I

1:14:03

died on my ass. Wednesday, Thursday,

1:14:05

Friday, Saturday, and there was a late show

1:14:08

Saturday. I went out knowing I was gonna

1:14:10

have a bad day. That was a horrible feeling. But

1:14:12

I noticed that the set ups were getting bigger laughs

1:14:14

in the pants lines. So I go,

1:14:16

oh, I flew business class, and

1:14:18

they chuckled, because they were supportive. Ah ha ha! I

1:14:20

understand business class. And I go, yeah, if you wanna fly

1:14:23

business class, you probably know this. I'm putting a really

1:14:25

nice suit and get a job, right?

1:14:30

Silence, right?

1:14:33

I've got four cats at home. Ah, punchline,

1:14:36

silence. They were so supportive, they

1:14:38

laugh at the set ups. But when it came to the cerebral

1:14:40

bit or whatever, they're just nothing. So I

1:14:42

turned around to my wife and I

1:14:44

said, on the late show, I've had enough of this. I've

1:14:46

died four nights. On the late show, I'm only do

1:14:48

set ups. I'm only do set ups. What

1:14:51

can be more virtual than just

1:14:54

going, oh, I flew business class,

1:14:56

ha ha ha. I've got four cats, ha ha. I

1:14:58

went shopping the other day, ha ha. I mean, did that

1:15:00

for me, right? But the point

1:15:02

I make it is, Stuart, is that eventually

1:15:05

they would stop laughing at set ups. If they

1:15:07

can't, just pick, yeah. And that, I think, is

1:15:09

what would happen if someone only did virtual comedy. The

1:15:11

audience would gradually start to go, wait a minute, this

1:15:13

is rubbish. And I think that bursts

1:15:15

of it will work. Because if you

1:15:18

like a performance, you want to laugh. I've

1:15:20

mentioned Dominic Holland twice now. Dominic,

1:15:22

I was doing a residency when I was been

1:15:24

going a year and a half, and I'd run out of material. I'd

1:15:27

do it every week for 10 weeks. I'd run out of material. And

1:15:30

I had to go on with no material at all. And

1:15:32

I was terrified. And Dominic Holland, who I barely

1:15:34

knew, said, listen, comedy

1:15:36

is a lot easier than people make out. Because

1:15:39

the audience want to laugh. They've

1:15:41

paid money to come up and laugh. They want to laugh.

1:15:43

And it was the most beautiful

1:15:46

advice someone's ever given me because I was terrified.

1:15:48

I got nothing. But they want the shows to work.

1:15:51

So I would go out on stage. Of course,

1:15:53

we know how difficult comedy can be. But

1:15:55

audiences have paid to laugh. They don't go out

1:15:58

wanting a comedian to fail. They want...

1:15:59

laugh.

1:16:00

So

1:16:01

in the same sense these people in Germany just

1:16:04

they wanted the gig to go well and virtual

1:16:06

comedy will work because the audience wanted to

1:16:08

go and also they haven't got time to think well actually the blind

1:16:10

school actually hasn't signed there for you know

1:16:13

but there's virtual comedy that works

1:16:15

because the audience haven't got time to think it through but if

1:16:17

you did lots of it I think the audience would start to

1:16:19

go yeah I mean no the same way

1:16:22

that comedy is as coastal meritocracy

1:16:24

was in the answers that you can get.

1:16:26

Very very

1:16:28

good convenience.

1:16:30

Name one comedian who fills stadiums that you don't

1:16:32

think is talented. Sure yeah.

1:16:36

So the point is that in

1:16:38

Germany so I thought I'm going to do all set ups then

1:16:41

I took I pulled my hat looked around the curtain

1:16:43

before the show on the late show and

1:16:45

they were all younger because it was a late show

1:16:48

the older people weren't staying up late and

1:16:50

younger people learned English as a second language so I

1:16:52

went out and had a lovely gig

1:16:53

and I've never got to do the gig of set up

1:16:55

but it would have been lovely. I

1:16:58

remember seeing when they were doing this is years

1:17:00

ago this is one of the things watching the live record

1:17:02

of this pushed me over the edge

1:17:04

and made me do my first gig but do you remember 28

1:17:07

acts in 28 minutes? Do you remember that concept

1:17:09

show? I got a

1:17:11

heckled. Go on. I

1:17:13

got a heckled. I've got a minute. I've

1:17:17

got a minute. What did you do on that show? What was

1:17:19

your minute that you did when they were they taking the gig?

1:17:21

I did I did I did I've got four

1:17:24

jokes yeah

1:17:25

and then I just is it fair to say that bang

1:17:27

is it fair to say that? Oh yes I remember I do remember that

1:17:30

so funny the one I was going to refer to was

1:17:33

Robin Ince's take on that format

1:17:35

was to he just did the punch lines it

1:17:37

was just brilliant he just said he took

1:17:39

in a minute to earth and punched lines oh that's great

1:17:41

four pounds of undigested fat under his fingernails.

1:17:44

Lovely. Here

1:17:46

we go we talk about sea sauce

1:17:48

and rhythm and funny sounding words

1:17:51

the reason that worked is because they were nice nice

1:17:53

words oh yes yeah absolutely yeah the

1:17:55

punch yeah and also there's

1:17:57

the cryptic element of I wonder what the joke was about. about.

1:18:00

So it's a great idea. It's actually a brilliant

1:18:02

idea. But not only does the audience

1:18:04

have to wonder what the joke is about and get

1:18:06

their own little thrill going, I don't know, but I like the idea.

1:18:10

They also can appreciate the sound and flow. I've watched

1:18:12

comedians in a foreign language and enjoyed them because

1:18:14

I can enjoy the rhythm. Otis

1:18:17

Cannelloni is one of my favourite comedians. He said

1:18:20

I've written down some punchlines

1:18:23

without the set-ups just to save time. And

1:18:25

he went, I don't care if it is your ring finger, get

1:18:27

it out. And

1:18:30

that's a trick, isn't it? Because that's a complete joke. That's

1:18:32

a complete joke. Yeah, but that's famous, right?

1:18:34

Yeah, that's famous. But yeah,

1:18:37

so listen to someone do punchlines only. It's

1:18:39

a great idea. My favourite one was Ed Byrne.

1:18:42

He debunked

1:18:44

the plot in Back

1:18:46

to the Future. Oh yes, of course. He

1:18:48

did it in a minute. He went, well, I'm going to... It's

1:18:51

great. He's such a professional. He obviously

1:18:53

would have timed it and worked out and

1:18:55

maybe chopped the routine down a bit to show you

1:18:57

to a minute. But he proved the flaw

1:18:59

in Back to the Future in a minute. And

1:19:01

it's like, yeah, it's great. Great.

1:19:08

We've got some listener questions here. Is

1:19:11

writing the book Adam's Everest?

1:19:14

I feel like we've kind of... I feel like

1:19:16

we've covered that. If this is one book and it's everything

1:19:18

you know, can you imagine that there's... that

1:19:21

five years from now you've realised, oh, I should

1:19:23

have... you know, you've had five years worth of thinking, oh, I didn't

1:19:25

mention that and I didn't mention that. And is there like an expanded

1:19:28

edition maybe? Do you know, I

1:19:30

found a typo. I spelled the word IEL,

1:19:33

A-I-A-S,

1:19:34

oh God, walking down

1:19:36

that aisle, A-I-L-S-E.

1:19:38

And I spelled it I-L-S-E

1:19:41

the second time I mentioned it in the state, which is worse because I've

1:19:44

got it right and wrong. If you get it wrong twice,

1:19:46

you might get away with it, but I got it right and wrong. And

1:19:49

a friend pointed it out and I adjusted it

1:19:52

on Amazon and the next book that got printed, it's

1:19:55

like a two hour wait. The next book that got

1:19:57

printed was corrected. Isn't

1:19:59

that beautiful?

1:19:59

Oh my god, so the book

1:20:02

is self-published. So you wrote it

1:20:04

and uploaded it to Amazon if you're selling it and you get the

1:20:06

money from Amazon and that's it, that's the whole of the publishing

1:20:08

process? Yes, my friend Elaine has

1:20:10

written nine, Elaine Bateman, she's written nine novels,

1:20:13

so she did it with me on, Okay.

1:20:15

No, she came round, she came round to do

1:20:18

it. But

1:20:19

the first time I uploaded it as a Kindle,

1:20:22

she did it with Zoom and screen

1:20:25

sharing. But the thing is, yeah, she came

1:20:27

round my house and that sinking feeling was when we went

1:20:29

click,

1:20:30

oh, I haven't got a project done. It was like sending your

1:20:32

kids off to school. Yeah, yeah. When they leave

1:20:34

home, when the kids leave home, yeah. But

1:20:36

the, but the, the,

1:20:38

an extra, okay, an extra

1:20:40

chapter, if something occurred to me and then I

1:20:42

started to go, ah, more, more, more, more, more, I

1:20:45

could

1:20:46

add it to the book, change

1:20:48

the table of contents and I could just put in

1:20:50

the new edition or something like that, on the

1:20:52

cover, go, extra chapter. So

1:20:54

yeah, that might happen.

1:20:56

All the more reasons for people to jump

1:20:59

on board and buy the original first edition now

1:21:01

after so that they've got a special unique copy

1:21:04

after numerous, numerous editions you

1:21:06

make over the rest of your life. Yes, if you

1:21:08

have the word aisle with an, without

1:21:11

an A in it, you have one of the first 540 copies. Very

1:21:14

nice. Okay. Could

1:21:16

there be, Stuart Robin asks, could there ever be

1:21:18

a magic circle equivalent for comedians?

1:21:21

Why is it accepted to show the mechanics

1:21:23

of joke writing? Stuart then puts in

1:21:25

brackets, I will be buying the book.

1:21:26

Ah, it's

1:21:28

accepted because I haven't given you any,

1:21:32

I've given you tools to do your own thing. So

1:21:35

the magic circle would be, look, if

1:21:37

you know how this trick's done, then we

1:21:39

can't entertain you with it anymore. So it has to

1:21:41

be guarded, which is beautiful,

1:21:44

but a method shouldn't be guarded. No, a

1:21:46

message should be shared.

1:21:48

Lovely, lovely answer, thank you. Al Kitson says

1:21:50

the book is incredible and I've already sent Adam a very

1:21:53

intense email about how much I loved it. And

1:21:55

I don't want to look too stalkery, but also,

1:21:58

first question is, I'd like to ask you,

1:21:59

to know what his relationship with ambition is.

1:22:02

We've touched on that a little bit. He says he's been incredibly

1:22:04

successful, such a respected authority. Was

1:22:06

it ever his ambition to be a massive household name?

1:22:09

And if so, does he consider himself to have made any mistakes

1:22:12

or was it just not meant to be? That's

1:22:14

a great question. All

1:22:18

I wanted to be was a good comedian. And then when I

1:22:20

started becoming a good comedian, I got people

1:22:22

trucking TV at me and Universal

1:22:24

gave me a three year retainer deal

1:22:27

at 28. Yeah. So,

1:22:30

so, um, I, you know, I, 20,

1:22:32

let

1:22:33

me think, 1998, 1999, yeah, 1999,

1:22:37

I earned

1:22:38

probably twice as much as I learned this year, right? 20,

1:22:41

24 years ago. Um, but

1:22:44

to me, I measured success

1:22:46

by the respect of your peers. So

1:22:49

I,

1:22:50

you know, if I'm considered a comedian to comedian,

1:22:52

then I'm successful. Um,

1:22:53

measuring

1:22:56

success by wealth is a very dangerous thing to do.

1:22:58

I mean, Jerry Seinfeld's worth a billion.

1:23:02

Rickey Duvay's is worth 128 minutes came out the

1:23:04

other day. Does that mean Richard Duvay's isn't successful?

1:23:08

Where'd you draw the line of what success is? You know, this phrase,

1:23:10

I hope you make it.

1:23:12

What, what, what, you know, where's make

1:23:14

it to be famous, fame fizzle

1:23:16

out. So if you make it, then you fizzles

1:23:19

out. Have you, do you unmake

1:23:21

it? You know, so I

1:23:23

think it is weird how that number people like people

1:23:25

can look at someone's net worth. I wonder how much it

1:23:27

affects that if you go, if Jerry Seinfeld lost

1:23:30

all of his money on a bet, if he bet his entire

1:23:32

personal wealth on a flip of a coin and lost,

1:23:34

is he no longer successful because he no longer

1:23:37

has that money or is that money a record

1:23:39

of he was able to earn that in

1:23:41

the first place. Therefore he is still, yeah,

1:23:43

yeah, good point. People are obsessed with those numbers because you

1:23:45

can't, you know, it's too messy, isn't it, to quantify

1:23:47

talent. You can't, you know, Jerry Seinfeld

1:23:50

has seven quaathons where,

1:23:52

you know, a quaathon is a hastily

1:23:55

invented unit of

1:23:57

worth in the world. Well, Sean, Sean

1:23:59

Lockwell.

1:23:59

said to me, who's my favorite comedian, before

1:24:02

he was successful in the sense of on television

1:24:04

and making loads of money, Sean Lott said

1:24:06

to me,

1:24:08

one comedian is successful

1:24:10

and another one isn't. All that means

1:24:13

is that more people like what they do than

1:24:15

they do. It's

1:24:16

a nice sentence, isn't it? All that means is more people

1:24:18

like it. Now, I think that I did,

1:24:21

like it did

1:24:23

happen very quickly for me, I did have, you

1:24:25

know,

1:24:26

that retainer deal, I'd be going five years when I got

1:24:28

that universal retainer deal. I did get on

1:24:30

television two and a half years in and a

1:24:32

lot of television four years in. It didn't sustain.

1:24:34

I got on the panel shows and I didn't do well on them. I

1:24:37

was doing stand up shows and not having enough new

1:24:39

material, doing the same material on two

1:24:41

different TV shows within a month of each other, being

1:24:43

on channel four and Beeb's two doing the same set.

1:24:45

So, you know, if I'd have had that success

1:24:48

a few years later, I'd have had the wealth of material to

1:24:50

actually

1:24:51

show the world and also I'd have

1:24:53

handled the pressure. I mean, I remember lying in

1:24:55

bed

1:24:56

before my fourth Edema show, not having

1:24:58

enough material. And I also had a comedy lab at channel four,

1:25:01

half hour broadcast pilot. I was writing both of them

1:25:03

with deadlines and I was, I had the weight of the

1:25:05

world on my shoulders. I couldn't cope. I

1:25:07

really, my mum said to me when the, when

1:25:09

the kind of success started to fizzle out television wise,

1:25:12

she breathed a sigh of relief because she could see that I was

1:25:14

struggling with it all. So then I went

1:25:16

on the three Radio Four series and we've turned over

1:25:18

five and a half hours of material in three years. I

1:25:21

coped with that pressure because I would, I'd

1:25:23

grown up, you know, so I had

1:25:25

a bit much too soon and it doesn't, it

1:25:27

doesn't matter because I'm still doing

1:25:29

what I love. You know, money's a

1:25:32

bonus to doing comedy. Of course you need to make a living.

1:25:34

You need to feed your family. But as

1:25:36

long as I make enough money that everyone's okay. And

1:25:38

as long as I'm doing, of course I'd like to make more

1:25:40

money, but, but

1:25:43

I mean, I make a living and I,

1:25:45

and I love what I do. So

1:25:46

there's no, I'm immune to bitterness because

1:25:48

I love what I do.

1:25:50

Beautiful sentence. The second part of Al's

1:25:52

question is he doesn't seem to have done Edinborough since the

1:25:55

2000s. Seems unusual for an act as productive

1:25:57

and comedy obsessed as him. Is there a particular

1:25:59

reason?

1:25:59

that would he ever do it again? As

1:26:02

soon as you stop stalking me I'll go to Edinburgh. I

1:26:07

stopped doing Edinburgh when I got

1:26:10

married and had children that's what it was. It's

1:26:13

such a chunk out of a child's summer holiday isn't

1:26:15

it right? Yeah. That would go

1:26:17

away for a month to follow his career. Yeah yeah yeah that's why

1:26:20

I stopped I got married 2008 and

1:26:22

it's no coincidence my last celebration was 2007.

1:26:24

Doing it now yeah I should do it now. So

1:26:28

yes and that his review by the way was

1:26:31

on Amazon was just beautiful. In

1:26:34

fact that was one of two reviews that made me

1:26:36

think that I've there were two

1:26:38

particular reviews that made me go right I've

1:26:40

done exactly what I set out to do so thank you

1:26:42

so much Alex because honestly

1:26:46

if I sold a million

1:26:48

books and the reviews just said this is a good

1:26:50

book and there were four stars or whatever I

1:26:53

wouldn't get the same satisfaction I've got now of

1:26:55

just selling some and getting

1:26:57

those kind of reviews because I set out to achieve

1:26:59

something and the review obviously not everyone's

1:27:01

had the same experience but

1:27:03

the feedback constantly showed me that

1:27:06

I achieved what I set out to do which is why

1:27:08

this is my biggest achievement in my life because

1:27:10

I've put 30 years of knowledge down

1:27:13

in the best way I can and people

1:27:15

are going back to me and saying I'm

1:27:17

writing better now and Tim Clark's been going

1:27:19

over 40 years and he said he took my

1:27:22

theories put them to his existing material

1:27:24

then went to a new material club and did all

1:27:26

new material that he had in his notebooks

1:27:28

sitting there doing nothing based on and it's

1:27:31

not just based on my methods it's also I suppose

1:27:34

it's a life-affirming book

1:27:36

because it's it's saying you know it's nothing

1:27:39

but laziness that will stop you applying this to metal

1:27:41

I've just described and you think oh yeah well you know you

1:27:43

know people that say get up and go go go yeah

1:27:46

yeah you know you've got that friend who just says

1:27:48

to you why you know Jimmy Carr you talk to Jimmy Carr

1:27:50

about life he's just you go oh my god he's

1:27:52

the reason he's so successful because he looks at things

1:27:55

so uh

1:27:56

methodically and positively and you know you've got

1:27:58

that friend who well what It's gonna

1:28:00

be rubbish anyway that cynical friend who didn't know why

1:28:02

you both when I when I when I first thought

1:28:05

doing stand-up I watch Harry Hill and it

1:28:07

just changed my life in 20 minutes and I

1:28:09

turned around to my girlfriend Why how

1:28:11

he was on stage and I or

1:28:13

maybe just come off and I said I'm

1:28:15

thinking about doing that and she went what you

1:28:17

up there now

1:28:19

that one sentence Could

1:28:21

have been enough to stop me ever doing it, you know

1:28:23

You can't listen to negative people because

1:28:25

they will get you in the end. So My

1:28:29

my book is kind of saying these

1:28:32

are my methods and

1:28:34

You've got to get out there and put more effort into

1:28:36

it So if it inspired somebody who's

1:28:39

somebody there'll be comedians who I consider to be far

1:28:41

better comedians than me Reading that book

1:28:44

getting something from it

1:28:45

because it's not just maybe

1:28:48

just reminding them that

1:28:49

they love their work Just that you

1:28:52

know that feeling

1:28:53

of going. Yeah, I should write

1:28:55

more material, you know I've already said I could

1:28:57

be more prolific. But the fact of matter is when I do

1:28:59

apply my methods to my new material

1:29:02

It's it's tight

1:29:04

and I there are there come in so very prolific, but

1:29:06

then materials not great Like, you know, I think

1:29:08

why I checked over my stuff. It wasn't good either

1:29:13

There's very few people that Milton Jones

1:29:15

is Outstanding and very prolific

1:29:18

there are a few comedians who just like Milton does now

1:29:20

and a half a year of new material and the radio for series

1:29:23

that's phenomenal

1:29:24

and then his stomach short jokes, they're

1:29:26

all gold and So

1:29:29

there are some comedians who are prolific and

1:29:31

brilliant There's something means that brilliant

1:29:33

and not prolific and there's something so prolific not

1:29:36

that great You know, I can turn over 20

1:29:38

minutes a month if it's average It's

1:29:40

you know, it's having that quality bar high

1:29:43

and there are very few people Milton's the probably

1:29:46

the best example I could give of an outstanding

1:29:48

comedian who just keeps churning it out

1:29:50

this

1:29:51

next question is from Russell

1:29:54

Stratton and It's

1:29:57

it's kind of a it's not so much a

1:29:59

question. It's a

1:29:59

It's a comment. It's an I wanted to say this and

1:30:02

I think it will probably wrap up on this Let

1:30:04

me just see if there's any others before I do that

1:30:08

Oh, this is a hand it will do this tiny one first

1:30:10

Kelly Edgar says not a question But I'm having

1:30:12

driving lessons now and as I approach a roundabout

1:30:14

I always think assert assert

1:30:16

I

1:30:19

can only assume that's a reference to one of your jokes.

1:30:21

No That's

1:30:25

why I'm laughing because Completely

1:30:28

on second to me What

1:30:30

would that what would that be? What would that be

1:30:32

a ball in a cube? Maybe it

1:30:35

maybe here we are Maybe maybe she did

1:30:37

read the book backwards and the car is the cube

1:30:40

and the valley like the ball She's hitting the

1:30:42

ball with the cube Kelly

1:30:44

we're gonna have to come back to you on that one But I'll leave it in because

1:30:46

that was funny last thing then Russell

1:30:49

Stratton said Adam changed my life and

1:30:51

I luckily got the chance to tell him He used to

1:30:53

compare the clay pigeon in East Kiss every week and

1:30:55

on his final night He talked about confidence and how

1:30:57

the whole world could be a stage for whatever any of

1:30:59

us wanted to do Climbing on tables and saying

1:31:02

how that was as much of a stage as the stage he was performing

1:31:04

on He wanted to inspire people to

1:31:06

not be inhibited but to follow their dreams Or

1:31:08

to look at the stage and think that there was anyone more Exceptional

1:31:11

than anyone watching and to think that anyone there

1:31:13

was more exceptional than anyone watching I've been a

1:31:15

performer all my life since that

1:31:16

time and had so many wonderful performing experiences

1:31:19

including meeting my now wife on stage Whenever

1:31:22

I felt intimidated by a challenge or had a crisis of confidence

1:31:24

I remember Adam looking down at me from that table and

1:31:26

I know the answer many years later I got the chance

1:31:28

to meet Adam. He was obviously incredibly magnanimous and full

1:31:30

of humility probably not a big thing to him but

1:31:33

it changed my life and perspective I

1:31:35

do remember that story and It's

1:31:38

really funny because if I still on that table,

1:31:40

I remember thinking a

1:31:42

lot of people are probably thinking what a dick and

1:31:46

Such a spontaneous moment. Just I'm

1:31:49

gonna stand on the table And it's just funny

1:31:51

how you don't know what people are thinking just like when you say

1:31:53

that audience didn't get it I remember thinking

1:31:55

I think I'm going a bit too far with

1:31:57

the table thing here and then and I

1:31:59

And hello, because I do

1:32:02

remember you, and he came up to me and said, oh, you

1:32:04

know, that didn't change my life. He said it changed my life.

1:32:06

You don't know what people think

1:32:08

when you're talking. And that's standing on the

1:32:10

table. I remember it very well. It's 1995, and

1:32:14

it's beautiful.

1:32:16

And what a lovely thing to end

1:32:19

on, to be reminded that, shouldn't

1:32:21

we love if all of our mission was to

1:32:24

change one person's life for the better in our life?

1:32:27

A, that would be lovely, and B, you've done yours now.

1:32:29

You can do whatever you want, get on a beach eating ice cream. Wow,

1:32:32

wow. That's lovely.

1:32:35

That is a really, that's a really lovely thought. That's

1:32:37

a lovely place to end it. I don't think the last

1:32:39

time you were on the show, I don't think I had

1:32:42

grown this, you know,

1:32:44

what sort of the

1:32:46

skimpiest,

1:32:46

skinniest version of a format

1:32:49

you could possibly have, that I do now, I always

1:32:51

often end my interviews by asking

1:32:53

my guests, are you happy?

1:32:58

Yes, I'm happy. And

1:33:03

the two main reasons I'm happy,

1:33:05

because I get on with my ex now, the

1:33:07

mother of my children, which is the most important

1:33:10

thing if you share children with somebody, and

1:33:12

that I would consider my friend.

1:33:15

And that's the most significant thing for me

1:33:17

to be happier than I used to be. And

1:33:19

the other reason I'm happy is that I've

1:33:22

written a book that's achieved exactly what I set up

1:33:24

to achieve,

1:33:26

which is why I shed a single tear when you said what

1:33:28

you said, because

1:33:29

that's there forever now. So

1:33:32

there we go.

1:33:38

That was Adam Bloom. I hope

1:33:40

by now, I hope you've bought it during listening

1:33:42

to this conversation, because you'd be mad not to. As I said,

1:33:44

I'm not being paid to say this. Adam got in touch

1:33:46

with me months ago and said, can I buy some advertising

1:33:48

on your podcast? And I said, no, because you've got to come

1:33:50

on it and talk about the book. And

1:33:53

it is... What

1:33:56

can you say about a book? I'm not very

1:33:58

good at things like this. I just... enthuse and

1:34:00

I worry that I become generic in my enthusiasm.

1:34:03

But, you know, I think I've

1:34:06

said my piece. Buy the fucking book. Right. You

1:34:09

can find out more about what I'm up

1:34:11

to. Do you know what I'm up to? Go to Stuart

1:34:13

Goldsmith dot com slash climate. That's

1:34:15

what I'm up to. I'm going to repeat a little shout

1:34:17

out and I may say this in future as well. I've really

1:34:20

got the bit between my teeth about trying

1:34:23

to access our

1:34:26

eco dread, whether you're an activist

1:34:28

or a business person or Jimmy

1:34:31

Punter, which I use in a

1:34:33

non-gendered way. Whoever

1:34:35

you are, if you're terrified about the environment,

1:34:38

I've got things about it I can say to you and

1:34:40

I feel like I might be able to help with some

1:34:42

of your eco fear. I think I mentioned on a previous

1:34:45

episode, a friend of mine who I run with

1:34:47

said, oh, our mate was terribly worried. He's a

1:34:50

real hole about the climate of the day. And I said, you

1:34:52

should talk to Stu. And that made me think, yeah,

1:34:54

let's let's do more of that. Let's

1:34:56

let's let's lean into that position. So

1:34:59

have a look at Stuart Goldsmith dot com slash climate, particularly

1:35:02

if you are in a

1:35:05

like a networking group or a

1:35:07

business or a people planet pint

1:35:09

kind of group or anything. If you

1:35:11

remember when I launched the resilience thing five years ago,

1:35:14

I said, hey, if you can get a bunch of people in a room to

1:35:16

listen to this, contact me. Well, that

1:35:19

but with eco dread. All right. So

1:35:21

have a little sense of that. You can join the Insiders Club

1:35:23

should you not already be a member. And if you're

1:35:25

not, I have no feelings about that. I'm going to

1:35:27

say shame on you. Maybe you've been listening

1:35:30

for years and never donated. And

1:35:32

that's absolutely fine. You're completely allowed.

1:35:36

You know, it's better for me if you join

1:35:38

the Insiders Club. But equally, there's no

1:35:40

pressure at all. Did

1:35:43

that feel like it was a strain for me to say?

1:35:45

I mean, it is no pressure at all and you are all completely

1:35:47

welcome to it. Can I just you

1:35:50

remember I mentioned Dr.

1:35:52

Venn, who is in

1:35:55

Canada, and we had a lovely conversation.

1:35:58

Dr. Venn got back to me. and

1:36:01

said it's good that I've been. She said,

1:36:03

when I turned my mind to mentally

1:36:05

cheer you on, this is me talking about people walking out

1:36:07

of the climate show in rehearsal

1:36:09

under Edinburgh. She says, when I turned my mind to

1:36:12

mentally cheer you on, I hoped

1:36:14

you'd have walkouts. I think it's kind of a metric

1:36:16

of the show mattering. What a lovely

1:36:18

way of putting it. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum,

1:36:20

yum. Right, I mean,

1:36:23

this should really have been a post-amble,

1:36:25

shouldn't it? I've ended up, oh God, I've broken my own rules

1:36:27

and ended up post-ambling. Let's just assume

1:36:29

if you wanted to bail out, you could have done so by now.

1:36:32

Thank you to producer Nathan for taking care

1:36:34

of this show. Thank you to Rob's Mountain for the music

1:36:36

and for Suzy Lewis for the log, which

1:36:40

currently she hasn't done and I've winged it, but I'm sure

1:36:42

she will before long. Thanks

1:36:44

to everyone involved, thanks to Adam. The book is Finding

1:36:47

a Comic Genius, find it on Amazon. I can't

1:36:49

tell you his website, because apparently his website

1:36:51

is currently under maintenance. But

1:36:53

look out for Adam, try and see

1:36:54

him live if you can, and I will begin

1:36:57

properly post-ampling at you in a moment,

1:36:59

goodbye for now. What

1:37:06

can I post-amble at you? I've

1:37:09

sent the two

1:37:10

important things on my mind. Oh,

1:37:13

here's fun, we've not talked about ADHD

1:37:15

for a while and I'm experimenting with

1:37:17

medication for it. I am in the titration

1:37:20

period and as a result, I

1:37:23

am getting an awful lot done and then being

1:37:25

more tired because I've done more

1:37:27

things. Is that how it's supposed to work? Also, I'm dehydrated,

1:37:29

you can probably hear that from my voice, sorry to draw attention

1:37:32

to it if you are a misophonic person.

1:37:35

But I'm

1:37:37

sort of enjoying it.

1:37:39

Have I got anything to say about it? I'm

1:37:43

on a methylphenidate,

1:37:45

I've learned that word. And

1:37:49

I can't have coffee, gosh, trying

1:37:51

to be insane. You're not supposed to have

1:37:53

any caffeine or alcohol, but

1:37:56

I can't live my life without a 7 a.m. coffee

1:37:58

because I've got children. factor that into

1:38:00

the titration and we are

1:38:03

continuing as perts. It's

1:38:05

quite interesting. I do recommend

1:38:07

it. I mean I felt like and you can you can read

1:38:10

this however you like. I felt it would be hypocritical

1:38:12

not to experiment with medication.

1:38:17

So I thought I'd give it a bash. I don't know if I'll stick

1:38:19

with it but it is quite nice having a sort of responsive

1:38:22

doctor person that you can take your blood

1:38:24

pressure information

1:38:26

to once a week and say these are my observations

1:38:29

and they can say these sound reasonable observations

1:38:31

and you go oh a human has patted me

1:38:33

on the head in an expert way. So

1:38:36

that's nice. So if you are

1:38:38

if you are I

1:38:40

was going to say afflicted you know we

1:38:42

talked about this before Rory Bremner thinks ADHD

1:38:44

is a superpower. If I ever get him on the show and I'd

1:38:46

love to I will take that up with him.

1:38:50

My ruposter that is. It's a pain in my ass

1:38:53

but but you'd

1:38:55

never know who you would be if you

1:38:57

were different. So my point is if you're considering

1:39:00

medication I'm not

1:39:02

gonna promote medical. Oh my god what am I here

1:39:04

what am I doing? Try CVD

1:39:07

oil from this organisation. This is this

1:39:09

isn't sponsored either. I'm just saying

1:39:11

that's where I am at the moment. It's quite interesting

1:39:14

and I'll report back in

1:39:17

due course I suppose.

1:39:19

I've been on you do one pill a week for the first week

1:39:21

and two pills a week for the second week. I've just come to the end

1:39:23

of that. I'm going up now to three sorry

1:39:26

two one pill a day for the first week two pills

1:39:28

a day for the second week three pills a day for the third

1:39:30

week I'm about to start doing that and

1:39:33

I'm just hoping for. Oh the whole

1:39:36

thing is just me hoping for that moment from

1:39:38

Futurama where Fry drinks exactly 300

1:39:41

coffees and times he goes from

1:39:43

jittery to time slows down and he sees a hummingbird

1:39:45

flap its wings in slow motion. I'm hoping

1:39:47

that's gonna happen with my mind. I'll tell you

1:39:49

next week if it did.

1:39:51

Bye for now.

1:40:01

The case powers the world's

1:40:03

best policies. Here's

1:40:06

a shot I re-recorded.

1:40:09

What is the briefing room? It's a behind-the-scenes

1:40:11