0:00

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0:02

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0:04

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1:37

Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Stuart Goldsmith

1:39

and I'm very pleased today to be introducing you

1:42

to Sir Keizer, unless you've already met her,

1:44

in which case, hey look, it's Sir Keizer again. This

1:47

is a journey

1:49

with someone who is, I think,

1:51

has a good claim on being

1:54

one of the hardest working comics I've

1:56

ever spoken to. Interrupting

1:59

her holiday for this

1:59

interview we're going to meet an incredible

2:02

comic with a superhuman work ethics.

2:05

Sir Kees's day job is an immigration

2:07

lawyer and then she absolutely

2:10

fills every moment of her life with shows

2:12

and other work and podcasting,

2:15

planning and strategizing, writing and so on,

2:18

which sometimes leaves her only four hours

2:20

a night to sleep. I'm tired

2:22

just recalling it now as I sit in

2:24

my little cellar recording

2:26

these blurbs. I've got so much respect

2:29

for someone who not only does all this work but also

2:32

is as candid and open about it

2:34

as Sir Kees is. I think that the

2:36

conversation about class in

2:38

stand-up comedy and the different opportunities

2:40

available to people who are working

2:42

class compared to people who are middle

2:45

or beyond is one that is

2:47

being had more and more and I hope that this contributes

2:50

to it. There are extras available exclusively

2:52

to the Insiders Club including Sir Kees

2:54

on her experiences teaching at Soho Theatre

2:57

and new wrestling podcast. All

2:59

of those are available at comedianscomedian.com slash

3:01

insiders but here and now this is

3:04

Sir Kees.

3:09

You join us Sir Kees from Glittering

3:12

South End. Can we say where you're recording

3:14

from? Is that allowed? Do you mind? Yeah you can say,

3:16

I'm recording from a Wellesby's. I think

3:18

it's a first in the history

3:21

of the podcast and it shows nothing but

3:23

your commitment to making this

3:25

appointment even though you're away

3:28

from home and gigging elsewhere. So

3:30

I respect it and thank you for that. You're

3:33

welcome.

3:34

I am gigging but I decided to take

3:36

like a mini holiday. So taking

3:39

a mini holiday just to

3:41

do some admin, some writing because

3:44

I don't have time.

3:46

Jo, you don't have time. Are you still a

3:48

full-time immigration lawyer?

3:50

No, I reduced my hours so

3:53

I'm a part-time immigration lawyer. So

3:55

I've been doing that part-time

3:58

since.

3:59

say for April or May.

4:02

It was just too much. I couldn't tell

4:04

all two, two full-time jobs.

4:06

They're full-time jobs, right? I mean,

4:08

I don't know much about immigration law, but

4:10

it sounds pretty full-time to me. And I do

4:12

know that comedy at the level that you're operating

4:15

is pretty full-time.

4:16

So has it been successful?

4:18

Was it a big

4:21

decision to go part-time?

4:23

Is that like a big life thing where you're like, Oh,

4:26

I guess I'm

4:27

following this path then?

4:29

Well, I've been like technically

4:32

full-time performing for the last two

4:34

years. It's

4:37

just because

4:38

I've

4:39

been a lawyer is like

4:42

something that I've worked really hard

4:44

at. I spent a lot of

4:45

money on like in terms of education

4:47

and stuff. And I do just want to be like,

4:50

I'm just going to throw away this career. My

4:53

aim was always to be like, can I come back to this

4:55

job if comedy

4:57

doesn't go well?

4:59

So I'm slowly and surely

5:01

getting used to like moving

5:04

away from law. Okay.

5:07

And plus it's getting on my nerves at the moment. immigration

5:09

especially. Jeez. Yeah.

5:12

And does that, do you think that having

5:15

a real thing that you still do in the meantime,

5:17

albeit part-time, like a real thing that you're

5:19

invested in and that you've trained for, it's like, you know,

5:22

we know there's a lot of comics who used to be doctors

5:24

or a GP and then gradually they let go of

5:26

it. I remember being back, I've been backstage

5:28

with Paul Sinner years ago where people would be asking

5:30

him GP questions. And then still

5:33

years ago, but more recently where people would

5:35

ask him GP questions and he'd say, I'm no longer

5:37

qualified to give you an answer. It's

5:40

quite an intense sort of a thing that

5:43

you've been doing and you are doing. Does it

5:45

allow you to make different choices

5:47

about how you operate as a comic? Because

5:49

there is a real kind of, there's

5:51

a sort of a backbone of sorts happening

5:54

there. I

5:57

think people expect

5:59

me to talk about. immigration

6:01

way more than I do than I do on stage.

6:04

I don't really talk about it that much

6:08

on stage. I mostly like to

6:10

show off the fact that I am a lawyer. Yes,

6:12

you thought this working-class woman was not smart.

6:14

She is also a lawyer. I

6:19

like to do it that way but I think my personality

6:22

is very different to like my

6:25

legal personality, if you want to put it that way, is very

6:27

different to my stage persona.

6:29

I think I'm happy to accept that.

6:32

Yeah. That's not going to be sensible. Yeah.

6:35

So, yeah, it's just a bit interesting

6:38

when you're having to juggle both

6:40

worlds. But it's just also a nice thing

6:42

for me to like shut off

6:45

in terms of like immigration and the job and

6:47

then just go and do some gigs.

6:49

Yeah. I wonder if in the future

6:51

that will be how comedy works. You know,

6:53

we're all in this sort of landscape of comedy at the

6:55

moment where in my time as a comic

6:57

it was like, you do it, you're out on the road the whole

6:59

time because you have to be. And

7:02

then as you get better and better, unless you make

7:04

it like crazy famous, you're still

7:06

out there. I mean, even if you do make it to that level, you're

7:08

still out there on the road. And now it feels

7:10

like much more people are much more

7:12

kind of portfolio comedians where it's they've

7:15

got online stuff and they've got live stuff and they've

7:17

got something else they do and what have you.

7:20

I wonder if this way of doing it is sort of, I

7:22

suppose what I was getting at before is in

7:24

terms of the choices you make, presumably there are gigs

7:26

that you don't have to take financially because you

7:28

also have a proper job so you can be more.

7:30

Oh yeah. Well, actually,

7:33

no, I would say up until like

7:35

a year ago, I was like

7:37

still like

7:40

doing some open mic

7:42

spots, probably

7:45

up until like a year ago. And that

7:47

was because I was doing like

7:50

our shows and I had to figure out new material.

7:53

But like since

7:55

a certain show has aired, I've kind of like

7:57

now my clout is much more advanced.

7:59

than it is now. So we

8:02

are kind of... You've done lots

8:04

of bits and bobs on TV, which was

8:07

the one that was like the certain show.

8:09

Apollo. It was. So

8:12

I actually did Apollo and then went

8:14

into my job the next day and

8:17

sat down and was like, why am I here?

8:19

And like she just did the biggest show ever.

8:22

Why am I here? So those

8:24

kinds of things made me realise that I don't have to

8:26

do

8:26

certain things anymore. So...

8:31

And also like with comedy, I've always felt

8:33

like you could be flavour of the month, like

8:35

one time, like one month. And then like

8:37

two months later, I know we're going to stand about you.

8:41

And this world that we're living in currently, especially with

8:43

like performing and comedy

8:45

is all about social media.

8:47

And I'm kind of like, I hate social media.

8:51

I'm kind of more like a live,

8:53

see me live kind of vibe.

8:56

And do you think, does that still feel

8:58

like an

9:00

option? Do you know what I mean? To like to

9:02

kind of reject the

9:05

concept. Like I'm having chats with friends who are like,

9:07

oh, my agent's really frustrated because I don't

9:09

do enough Instagram or what have you. Like that's really

9:11

becoming a thing. And

9:13

nothing to me, that's a, like that

9:16

seems so completely backwards. Like

9:18

it's your choice. You know what I mean? Like it's the individuals

9:20

who go, this is how I'm going to do it. But

9:23

there is this big kind of wave of, we're

9:25

seeing all the time, both of our contemporaries

9:27

I'm sure kind of suddenly

9:29

going suddenly accelerating because they can suddenly

9:32

sell 600 tickets in a room because of their socials.

9:35

Is that something you feel with

9:37

your kind of, with

9:39

your educated approach

9:42

and your kind of like proper job reality,

9:44

is that something that you feel it's still

9:46

a possibility to go, I'm not going to do that. I'm

9:48

just going to build a crowd organically.

9:51

I would hope so. Like

9:54

I have really like

9:56

hoped that I didn't have to rely

9:59

on the social media.

10:01

Like, but because

10:03

of when I like started

10:05

comedy and especially the last

10:07

couple of years, it has been social

10:10

media heavy. You kind of realize

10:12

that in order for you to sell tickets, you

10:14

know, for people to come see your shows, you

10:16

have to be good at both. And

10:20

that is quite frustrating. I

10:24

wouldn't be on social media if I didn't

10:26

have to be.

10:27

Yeah.

10:28

Do you do you? Yeah,

10:31

I'm just wondering. I tell myself that I wouldn't be on

10:34

social media if I didn't have to be. I

10:36

think I'm lying to myself because actually what

10:38

I like is the voyeuristic aspect of it. I like

10:41

seeing what's going on and using

10:43

it to either make myself feel better or worse.

10:45

I get my own kind of dramatic version

10:48

of it

10:49

and kind of castigate myself with it or

10:51

go, well, maybe I'm doing better than that person

10:53

in all of those grubby little ways and you interact

10:55

with it.

10:57

But I also think that I don't

11:00

know if I'd be able to totally cut it out of my life.

11:03

Do you think you would? Would you be like, I'm a live performer,

11:05

I'm a live person. I don't need any of this.

11:08

Yeah, I think like I

11:10

really enjoy Instagram for the gossip, obviously,

11:13

when the gossip comes out. That's always

11:15

great.

11:15

But

11:18

like, I wish like any cast of

11:20

like always think doesn't need to have social media

11:22

now. You put your name on a

11:24

bill and he sells tickets like ridiculously like

11:27

that. So that's what I

11:29

would love to be able to do. I feel like social media

11:31

at times can be quite toxic,

11:34

especially when

11:37

you're worried about what people's views

11:39

of you are going to be. And

11:41

that's the thing I don't really enjoy.

11:45

And you just drill a bit further

11:47

into that specifically what kind of views

11:49

in the sense that like, have you been attacked on social media?

11:53

But I could. Yeah, so like, I've been called racist

11:55

on social media. Obviously, I talk about white people quite

11:57

a lot because you know, why not?

11:59

So I've

12:02

been

12:02

called racist before. That

12:05

was quite fun. By a

12:07

white person. I've been called, yeah,

12:09

by a white person. I've been called racist. I've

12:12

been called racist

12:15

to my face as well. And I was like,

12:18

I've been like body

12:20

shamed online.

12:23

So that's not great, obviously.

12:27

But,

12:28

and obviously you get like, oh, you're not funny.

12:31

That kind of stuff. But it's because obviously

12:34

you're trying to sell yourself to the public. You

12:36

want to get

12:38

people to come see your shows. You want people to

12:40

come buy your tickets. And if

12:42

they don't like you and you see that

12:45

they've put a comment, you

12:47

feel like it's going to have a knock on a fence

12:50

to what other people think about you.

12:52

Yeah.

12:53

I wonder if that's true. I don't think

12:55

I've, I mean, I'm not saying it's not

12:57

true that you think it, but I just wonder

13:00

about, when I've seen something that I

13:02

love on social media, some routine or

13:04

a clip or some reels or something, if I've

13:06

seen people in the comments, you

13:09

know, slam it and be

13:11

horrible about it, I don't think it's changed my

13:13

opinion of it. And to a certain extent,

13:15

there's like, if people argue about something,

13:18

it drives it up in the algorithm because people are

13:20

commenting. But then I suppose in my case, I've

13:22

had very little, kind

13:25

of personal attacks. So if

13:27

there have been arguments, they've kind of like, oh,

13:29

that can be quite a positive sort of thing. But

13:32

I suppose you're a pretty new

13:34

comic. Tell me again when you started.

13:36

So officially I started, what we

13:39

were in 2013. So

13:41

I officially started 2015.

13:45

Okay.

13:46

Okay.

13:47

So you're not, you're new, but you're not a baby.

13:49

Yeah. So people keep calling me like

13:52

the new, like

13:52

a new comic on up and coming comedian. It's

13:55

because like for the first like five years, probably

13:57

like first four years, I wasn't really like. doing

14:02

much, if you want to put it that way. Like

14:04

I was working in the pub at Comedy

14:06

Virgins and like doing stuff, and

14:09

like doing the open mic circuit. Then it wasn't

14:11

until like BBC Awards in 2017 that I was

14:13

like, we're going to have to push

14:15

ourselves to do it. Then by the time 2019 happened,

14:19

a lot of my friends who

14:21

started at the same time with me were doing their debut

14:23

shows. I had a full-time

14:25

job. I had two part-time

14:28

jobs at that time, plus stand-up

14:30

comedy. I just didn't have the time

14:32

or energy to try and invest

14:37

so much time into doing an hour show.

14:40

I was behind from

14:42

everyone else because I had a life

14:45

away from comedy. That was

14:47

priority was looking after myself and my

14:49

family. Trying

14:53

to juggle everything

14:55

and try to figure out who I wanted to be as

14:57

a comedian, and

14:59

get to the point where I don't care what people think

15:02

of me anymore was like a work

15:04

in progress.

15:05

Yes. Yes, because you are at that

15:08

stage of it. Your relationship with comedy is

15:10

such that if you're not

15:12

able to gig as frequently, that's

15:15

the main piece of advice they give everyone is you just got to get

15:17

out there, and you can quite reasonably

15:19

say, I can't.

15:23

And also

15:26

just like not

15:29

feeling it. And obviously we had the pandemic.

15:30

So then after 2019, I was like, well,

15:33

debut in 2020 or 2021. And

15:38

then the pandemic happened and that was not possible.

15:40

So that was like another two and a half

15:42

years before I could debut

15:45

my show.

15:46

How did you feel about that? How did you feel

15:48

about that about having to wait about the

15:51

how did you feel about needing

15:53

whether through the pandemic or through the kind of financial

15:55

responsibilities you have having

15:58

to it's like. There

16:00

must be a sense of like put me in coach. Do you know what

16:03

I mean? I'm good at this. It's going well. I want

16:05

to keep doing it. I can't keep doing it. I can't learn all

16:07

those lessons I want to learn. I can't do it hard

16:09

enough to do the hard yards without saying

16:11

I can't really do them yet.

16:13

Yeah, it was quite tough

16:16

because I was working all

16:18

the time, probably

16:21

like 20 hours a day. Christ.

16:25

So yeah. 20 hours a day?

16:29

Yeah, like 18, 20 hours a day. So I'll

16:31

go for example,

16:33

on let's say on a Friday,

16:35

I will go to my job in

16:37

the day. So I'll be a lawyer in the day.

16:40

And then I'll finish at like six

16:44

and then go to the pub

16:46

to work from

16:48

like seven to close

16:50

and then

16:53

go home and then have like four hours of sleep and then

16:55

have to wake up in the morning.

16:57

Yeah, how are you aligned?

17:00

You know,

17:02

it's a popular question. I'm not going to lie. It

17:04

is a popular question. It's a top three popular

17:07

questions. So yeah. But

17:09

it's a comfortable working class

17:11

background. So we have to do

17:13

what we have to do. And so, and

17:16

my body's kind of used to it now. So having

17:19

to like always work.

17:21

So did that mean, I mean, I would imagine that

17:23

the positive aspects of comedy

17:26

were like when a gig goes well, you

17:29

get an enormous adrenaline rush

17:31

and it's enjoyable. You feel you've got self-determination,

17:34

all those kinds of things that maybe, you

17:36

know, you get to have your time and space on

17:38

stage when a lot of the rest of your

17:40

time and spaces accounted for. Presumably

17:43

when a gig goes badly, like

17:45

I'm interested in sort of the enormous

17:47

resilience that you must have shown to be,

17:49

I mean, I can think of bad gigs I

17:52

had early on where I didn't then have to go and

17:54

do a 20 hour day the next day. And

17:56

if I had have done, how the fuck would I have kept doing comedy?

18:00

Yeah,

18:02

chicken wings helped. Bad

18:05

gig, chicken wings.

18:07

Good gig, chicken wings.

18:08

I think sometimes you

18:10

just have to throw, like, you

18:13

have to realise that tomorrow is a new day

18:15

and then you just have to be like, I

18:18

can't let

18:18

these strangers who don't know who I am,

18:21

affect

18:23

me. You just get up, dust yourself

18:25

off and move on. And I think because

18:27

of my mum's resilience, that's how I've

18:30

been all my life. You just got to get up and dust

18:32

yourself off. Some days are harder than some.

18:34

Like,

18:36

I remember last year, I basically

18:38

did a gig the day that my gran died. And

18:41

I probably should have cancelled it, to be honest, but I

18:44

was very much like, I don't

18:46

like letting people down. But

18:48

I felt like

18:50

I should, in the end, I probably should have done the gig

18:52

because I went to go see my gran

18:55

after she was passed away. I

18:59

thought it was quite, to

19:01

be honest, quite resilient how my gran died.

19:03

I'm not going to get into the details, but she,

19:06

long story short, she had cancer. And

19:08

the day that she passed away, they

19:11

were bringing a

19:12

hospital bed to the house, to

19:15

the flat. And like, I think

19:17

my gran was just like,

19:18

no, if I'm going to die, I'm going

19:20

to die in my own bed. And so

19:23

she passed away just before the hospital bed arrived to

19:25

the flat. So, I think it was I

19:28

thought it was like having the, I can't

19:31

really say words today, resilience

19:33

to be able to be like, I'm going to die in my own time.

19:35

And the way that I want to pass away around

19:38

family is, was quite moving.

19:40

So we were obviously there for quite all afternoon.

19:43

And then I was like, I'm going to go do a gig outside

19:45

of London.

19:47

And I don't think it kicked in, or

19:49

like, it

19:52

didn't really like, I felt like I was

19:54

in auto pilot on stage. And

19:58

they hated me. because a lot of them

20:00

were in relationships and stuff like

20:02

that and I'm just talking about dick and like relations

20:05

and stuff

20:08

and then having

20:10

to come back home and like having to sit

20:12

up. I didn't really think about the gig to be honest. I

20:14

know it like I didn't do well.

20:16

I didn't die on my ass but I didn't do well. This was obviously

20:19

last year when I already had like a profile

20:22

if you want to put it that way. So getting

20:26

on the train having to think about like you

20:28

did not just do well at the gig but also

20:30

your gran's passed away today was

20:33

quite a like a hard

20:35

thing to like deal with but then

20:38

life goes on you have to get up and

20:40

do things the next day. Well

20:42

does it stop because things happen so.

20:47

Did it occur to you to pull the gig?

20:50

I did think about pulling the gig. I

20:54

did think about putting the gig but because it was

20:56

like soloxfinite.com I

20:59

felt bad

21:01

about doing so because I was like well they're gonna have to find

21:03

a replacement and

21:06

stuff like that and I didn't tell them when I turned up that

21:08

my gran had passed away.

21:10

I was just very much like in the corner of a like

21:12

a downstairs and it's a lovely show.

21:14

It's a show that I've done several times before.

21:16

They've not booked me since

21:19

but that's okay. She's got too many

21:21

gigs anyway. So it's fine but

21:25

it was yeah so I think

21:28

I did think about pulling the gig but

21:30

I just felt bad letting people down. I've always felt bad

21:32

letting people down.

21:37

So this is Sikiza and as you

21:39

can hear I felt really bad when

21:41

I realised that she was interrupting

21:43

her holiday to appear on the podcast but how emblematic

21:46

of someone with such commitment and such

21:49

drive that I really I think

21:51

I don't remember exactly how much of this I said on

21:53

tape but I basically said we can

21:55

just stop and do this another time because you

21:58

know you don't need to be going this hard. on my,

22:00

for my sake, but

22:03

just absolutely brilliant. And I really urge you to check

22:05

out her material online. There is no one that lights

22:07

up a room like Sir Keizer, particularly

22:10

as I mentioned in the show, we gigged

22:12

together a few times in Edinburgh and

22:15

she's a fantastic comic and I really loved her

22:17

hour, but she also has an incredibly

22:19

sparkling personality, welded

22:22

to an absolutely firm authority

22:24

when she's emceeing. So try and get along and see

22:26

her live in a live room the first

22:29

chance you get. You can follow

22:31

her on Twitter or Instagram at SirKeizerComedy

22:34

or go to SirKeizerComedy.com. I

22:36

am going to do a very brief

22:38

post-damble at you after the rest

22:40

of this episode to explain to you in

22:43

the manner of these things, why it can't be longer,

22:45

but oh my God, I cannot wait to get my

22:47

teeth into the precise situation that I'm in now.

22:50

Also, I'm very excited to tell you, I should

22:52

have opened with this. This is talk about burying the lead.

22:55

I'm gonna be doing spoilers at Soho. I've literally

22:57

just hit the button on that right now. In fact,

22:59

by the time you hear this, there's probably a little mini

23:02

advert before each show anyway, so maybe this is

23:04

superfluous, but on the off chance that there isn't, I'm

23:07

gonna be doing spoilers at Soho at the

23:09

end of November. This is my climate stand-up comedy

23:11

show, the funny side of climate change,

23:14

no really, the times. That's a lovely

23:16

quote, isn't it? And it really is. Please don't be put

23:18

off by the fact it's about climate, but if you do

23:20

know anyone who works in that field or has

23:22

a particular interest in that field, it

23:24

will be certainly something you could pass on to them,

23:27

but also it is robust and funny

23:30

and designed to be funny to everybody. So

23:32

please don't opt out of it on the basis that, oh

23:34

God, Goldsmith's gonna be banging on about the climate.

23:37

There's a tiny bit of that. And there's a lot more stuff

23:39

about my desperation to call

23:41

in a bridge strike. You can find out about that

23:43

in the show. So go to sohotheatre.com

23:46

or presumably anywhere you would ordinarily

23:48

find me. By the time

23:50

this goes out, you will see a whole host

23:53

of cleverly aimed

23:56

and redirecting links

23:58

which send you to the right place. spoilers at

24:00

the end of November. It's

24:02

a last minute booking. Tell all your

24:05

friends and let's get it

24:07

sold out despite a staggeringly small

24:09

amount of lead time. All right, here's back to

24:11

Shakiza.

24:14

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24:44

Tell

24:53

me about the relationship between

24:55

your work ethics, you've got too many gigs,

24:58

and all the other work you're doing, and

25:02

feeling bad when you let people down. Because

25:05

it sounds like you said, you know, part of the work is

25:07

your part of the 20-hour days when you've

25:10

had to do those, has been responsibilities to

25:12

your family, you mentioned, those are people you don't want

25:14

to let down. Is that what

25:17

you're driven by? Is that one of the

25:19

key kind

25:23

of things that drives you to

25:25

work as hard as you do, is not to let other people

25:27

down?

25:29

No, I wouldn't say so.

25:32

I became a lawyer to make

25:35

my family happy, to make my parents happy,

25:38

because I'm the only child. So

25:40

I had a lot of responsibility to go to

25:43

uni and get a good education.

25:45

But I've never wanted

25:47

to be in an office.

25:51

I've always wanted to be a performer, I used to be a dancer.

25:54

And that's

25:56

what I ever wanted to be was a dancer. But

25:58

my parents, especially my mum, wasn't very,

26:01

and this is nothing against her, like in a bad mouth

26:03

kind of way, she's just coming from a different

26:05

culture. So her being

26:07

like, you're never going to make a

26:10

career out of being a dancer, was

26:15

something that was just like, well, they

26:17

don't believe in what I do. We're gonna

26:20

have to like,

26:21

to like save faith, but also to

26:23

like, not have to deal with hassle, just

26:26

like find another gig.

26:27

And so that another gig was me becoming

26:30

a lawyer.

26:33

And then started

26:36

working in this pub during uni, and

26:39

then discovered performing, if you want to

26:41

put it that way,

26:42

and then discovered

26:46

I could be me

26:49

by

26:51

doing it and entertaining people

26:54

and making people laugh and being on

26:56

stage. But at the same time,

26:59

I kind of was like, well, we

27:01

can't get rid of the

27:04

education, the the

27:06

lawyering, because that's

27:09

going to disappoint your parents.

27:12

So it was like,

27:15

what we're gonna have to do both? And

27:20

how can we do both? By sacrificing

27:22

some sleep. Sacrificing

27:26

sleep, sacrificing friends.

27:28

So yeah.

27:30

Now I'm suddenly feeling bad about all the times

27:33

I've winched about how hard comedy is.

27:35

I felt like the sacrifices I've made are

27:37

pretty minor. I mean, you must you must

27:40

be in rooms all the time, with

27:42

comics, whinging about how tired

27:44

they are, and their free time and all the rest

27:47

of it. And that must make you raise an eyebrow.

27:50

Yeah, it is

27:52

something that people say quite a lot like,

27:55

Oh, I'm really tired. Or, or

27:57

I've been

27:59

like I'm really tired

28:01

and where I've fallen asleep from

28:03

the empathy and the gig. I remember emceeing,

28:05

I didn't see quite a lot of Asian comedy

28:08

and I'd be upstairs asleep

28:09

on the floor like half

28:12

an hour before the show. Someone comes in

28:14

and goes well back to the we're gonna start the show

28:16

and I'm like wow,

28:19

ah. I've just got too much energy for my liking,

28:21

I don't know where it comes from but

28:24

we're always like worried at how

28:26

we have to be on

28:29

at certain times and then when we're not on

28:31

we are falling asleep on the bus or on a

28:33

tube or on the floor.

28:36

Does that feel sustainable?

28:39

Now you are in a position with comedy where you're

28:41

you've got a higher profile, you're more in demand,

28:44

presumably making more money from comedy. Does

28:47

it feel sustainable? Like can you see

28:49

light at the end of the tunnel or

28:51

will there always be the need to keep one

28:53

hand in immigration law for the sake

28:55

of your parents if not for your own?

28:59

Now my parents since

29:01

being on TV, my mum has been very

29:03

much like

29:05

look at my daughter,

29:06

she is a lawyer and a TV

29:08

comedian. So I think through

29:12

certain things especially since

29:16

like 2020 my

29:17

mum's kind of realized my dad doesn't

29:19

really like that much but my mum she's

29:22

been like the one that I've

29:24

been most like worried about but since

29:29

like 2020 her realizing

29:31

that I've been on TV shows and doing stuff

29:34

you can see that how she understands that

29:36

I can make money from this and that how this

29:38

is her career. She came to

29:40

the Apollo recording with my dad and

29:43

quite a few of my friends who actually I've never seen we

29:45

do stand up on stage before and

29:49

I came out because we were the first recording so

29:51

I came out around the back and found my parents

29:53

so I didn't realize they were still there and my

29:55

mum had been crying

29:57

and so

29:58

And I was like,

30:01

my mum, that moment

30:03

was like my mum's proud of me. So yeah. So

30:07

they understand. But

30:09

the job will go. The job will, the immigration

30:12

is going soon. I'm not going to say when, but the job

30:14

is going in the next like six months. I won't be

30:16

a lawyer anymore.

30:17

Amazing. And is it, is it, I've

30:20

got no idea about that job. Is it something you can pick

30:22

back up in 20 years if it is fine? Okay,

30:24

you're sufficiently specialised. I'm really

30:26

glad to hear that. I really, I

30:28

really want to email you and get an auto

30:30

reply that says, I'm sorry, Sakitha is asleep.

30:35

Just you mentioning your dad in 2020.

30:38

I think you came on an online show that I did.

30:40

Did you have like a steam room in

30:42

your house?

30:46

Am I remembering that right? Yeah.

30:48

So basically, what my dad would

30:50

be in the background of

30:52

quite a lot of the Zoom shows I

30:55

was in or on the floor. So

30:58

I'd be there telling dick jokes and

31:00

he would just be on the floor watching like his

31:02

own like headphones and watch his own YouTube

31:04

stuff. But, um,

31:07

so as not to crowd your camera. Yeah.

31:11

He'll just be down there. But,

31:14

um, yeah,

31:17

one day I came home and this is

31:19

when obviously we were allowed to like go out,

31:22

see people. I think it was like the

31:24

end, like September or something like

31:26

that was 2020. I randomly came

31:29

home and

31:33

there was a like a mini, like a portable

31:36

steamer, like a human

31:38

steamer in the living

31:39

room. And I was like,

31:42

what, why, where,

31:44

what? But

31:47

that was just like, we've got a portable

31:49

steamer. I was like, why do we need a portable steamer? We're

31:52

black. We don't need one in South London

31:54

in a flat. What are you doing? It's

31:56

ridiculous. Basically,

32:00

it was a 10 and then you kneel in it

32:03

and then you steam it and

32:06

that's it. So there's pictures

32:08

of me being in it and I've

32:10

got pictures of my dad in it.

32:11

Oh, yeah. Yeah. OK,

32:14

the portable steamer. I don't know where that is actually

32:17

now.

32:17

Oh, I don't know if that's to the best.

32:21

You

32:25

mentioned them saying before

32:27

and I've got some audience questions later on if you want

32:29

to know someone and one of them I noticed is

32:32

to do with them seeing because

32:34

when we last worked together, it was like in

32:36

the assembly hall or somewhere in

32:38

Edinburgh when we were doing like a sort

32:41

of thing. Yeah. And

32:43

you like we all wanted to go home. Yeah.

32:46

It was late. It was late in the festival. It

32:48

was very late. Yeah. Early

32:50

as the morning. And and you I remember

32:52

like I couldn't see the stage, but I could hear as

32:55

soon as you walked on, you just shone like

32:57

I saw your Edinburgh show and you were shining in your Edinburgh

32:59

show. But I want to talk more widely about your

33:02

relationship to an audience. Like

33:05

who who are you to them and who are

33:07

they to you?

33:09

Oh,

33:11

I

33:12

like to think I

33:14

like to. I've got weight as we know, I've got way too

33:16

much energy from my life in and

33:20

I. I

33:22

always think whenever I'm at MC, my job is

33:25

to make sure the audience feels safe.

33:27

They know they're here for a good time, but

33:29

also don't be a cunt.

33:31

So I can just put it with. Yeah,

33:33

you can. You can. You can particularly

33:36

you can really say it at the very end of an otherwise

33:38

very pleasant and positive sounding list. That's

33:40

the best place. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

33:44

But don't be a C word in the show.

33:47

And I think.

33:49

I've realised that how who I am as a person

33:51

on stage allows people to understand

33:54

those free things, to

33:57

have energy, to be able to know what I have

33:59

for a good time.

33:59

But also, if you do some things that I'm not

34:02

happy about, I will get a baseball bat. Let's not

34:04

do that. OK, I will get South London on you.

34:06

Let's not do that. So.

34:09

My job as an emcee

34:11

is always to try and make sure the show is lovely

34:13

for the rest of the community. This is not about me. It's

34:15

about me having a relationship with the audience

34:18

to know that they're safe, but also

34:20

to know that how

34:22

we're here to have a good time. I feel like I'm the kind

34:24

of person that you want to have a drink with

34:26

after the show and just have like

34:28

some banter and.

34:31

Just have a nice, enjoyable

34:33

night, especially if it's like we do

34:36

comedy, it's always late and we're always

34:38

like probably the last people people will see before

34:40

they go to bed. You want them to go

34:42

to bed on a good note

34:44

and a good feeling. I never think about

34:47

my audience going to bed on a good note. That's lovely

34:49

to hear. You've reminded me as well,

34:51

just on work ethic. I

34:54

remember looking at your schedule. I don't know. How

34:56

did I hear about it? Maybe it

34:58

was something. It might be on Instagram.

35:00

It may be on Instagram. And it was literally

35:02

doing nine gigs a day. You're like, I'm hosting this

35:05

and I'm hosting that. I'm running over here. I'm hosting that. I'm doing

35:07

everything else. I mean, I'm sort of reappraising

35:10

that in the light of what I now know about your usual 20

35:12

hour days and your amount of your amount

35:14

of energy that you have. But it's

35:16

part of that. Is that is that wholly

35:19

driven by? I'm at Edinburgh

35:21

now. I'm not at the day job. I've got to make

35:23

every second count. Or is it driven

35:25

by how much you love doing the work? Or

35:28

is it driven by something else? Is it is it just like

35:30

a relentless work ethic that says, if I'm here,

35:32

I'm going a thousand percent?

35:35

I. Didn't

35:38

do as many surprisingly, as many shows as I

35:40

did last year in Edinburgh. And

35:46

all the shows I did do this year

35:50

were ones. That

35:53

were requested for me. I was like, late

35:55

in life, I was hosting late in life. That was lovely. I

35:57

was here hosting all the late night shows.

36:00

And I felt like it was

36:04

great for me to know that people

36:06

had confidence in me to be on

36:08

these high standard shows. And

36:11

that's all I ever wanted

36:13

to do this year, to

36:16

be like, I have

36:18

got this reputation to be a good comedian,

36:21

to be a reliable comedian, and

36:24

to also grow as a comedian, in terms

36:26

of joke writing, because I'm not really a

36:28

great writer. So that's what I've really worked

36:31

on this year, in terms of

36:33

comedy. So going up to Edinburgh,

36:35

I kind of was like, we're just here to live our

36:37

best lives. Let's just enjoy ourselves. We don't

36:39

have your parents around you. Just live your best life.

36:44

So that's

36:46

why I really enjoy Edinburgh, because it's just like,

36:48

it's a world away from like, the

36:51

world that we live in. And

36:53

it involves things that I enjoy doing,

36:56

like performing.

36:58

And I was talking to another comic about this, about how

37:00

I feel like there should be like comic world.

37:03

You know how that is Disney world, there should

37:05

be comic world, where we

37:08

do like shows four

37:10

days a week, people come around the world

37:12

to come and see us.

37:15

And it's great.

37:16

I sort of like a constant rolling Edinburgh

37:18

festival, except that there are some days off

37:21

where we don't have to work.

37:22

Yeah. I

37:23

understand that.

37:24

Do you see a lot of stuff when you're at

37:26

the festival? Or presumably you're too busy gigging yourself?

37:29

No, I did see quite a lot, to be honest.

37:32

After the first like 10 days,

37:36

I was trying to see as much as I possibly

37:38

could. And I always write out like

37:40

a list of shows that

37:43

I want to see in Edinburgh

37:45

shows that they've all like a whole schedule, like

37:47

shows I have like a whole little mini diary that I make

37:50

up

37:51

that is like

37:52

time in color coordinated. This

37:54

is the time you're performing. This is

37:56

like there's a whole like list.

37:58

We have to draft out every one. one that you want to

38:00

see on a list.

38:03

Then we've got to narrow that down and

38:05

put that into the diary. You've got

38:07

to figure that out around your gigs. Obviously,

38:11

you was on my list and then due to

38:14

answer, see if that's what's up there. You mentioned that,

38:16

yes. Yes. You were on my list.

38:18

I'm just thinking about this.

38:20

Then I got sick. I think in terms of, like

38:23

I do that. Of course, I do multiple lists and I do color code,

38:29

but it doesn't this year actually. It's quite successful.

38:31

But the listenership of this podcast, huge

38:33

color coding spreadsheet type fans. I

38:36

think you're the only other comic I've spoken to that says,

38:38

oh yeah, I'm well into that. Really

38:41

methodically engaging

38:43

with the process about doing it. Let's

38:46

talk about your Edinburgh and your Edinburgh show. The

38:49

way in, I guess, is you were talking about being in C,

38:51

making sure everyone gets to bed safely

38:54

and yet for sure doing late and live all those prestige

38:56

format shows. You really

38:58

seem to be very visibly present everywhere

39:00

at the festival. I remember last

39:02

year when you, that was your debut, wasn't

39:05

it? It was the life of the party. I saw that

39:07

show and obviously the

39:09

format of that show is welcome to my party. This

39:12

is a house party and it all fits in together. It

39:14

really very smartly, I think, played into

39:19

your attitude to us and your relationship with us. How

39:23

was the show this year? I saw your show this year. I forget

39:25

the title. Forgive me. Hear

39:27

me out. Hear me out. I saw that

39:29

one. Really really enjoyed

39:31

it. How did it, did it feel different

39:34

to your previous one? How do you feel you'd kind

39:36

of changed or developed in between the two

39:38

of them?

39:40

It was probably

39:42

one of the hardest things I've had to

39:44

do because

39:45

I've

39:47

had to do this show more

39:50

or less than nine months, whereas

39:52

the debut was like a two year,

39:55

like in

39:57

the making kind of show where this was

39:59

like.

40:00

Nine months. I knew when I left

40:03

Edinburgh last year. I knew that

40:05

I wanted to go back. I knew that I wanted

40:07

to push myself.

40:08

I knew what it was

40:11

going to be about because I've had a feeling

40:13

about me being

40:15

dyslexic for a

40:17

couple years. And

40:20

I was like, we've got the money now. We

40:22

can get this done.

40:25

So I knew what I wanted it

40:27

to be about. I

40:29

knew what I wanted the ending to be about.

40:32

But it was about not

40:36

having that overshadow 50 minutes

40:39

on material. So

40:41

I had to work quite hard and

40:46

nearly pull out. I nearly pulled

40:48

out Edinburgh twice because

40:50

of it. Because it got

40:53

to like June and July and I was like,

40:55

everyone hates the show. And everyone around me, like

40:57

producers and my director and my

40:59

agents were like, show's great. We love the show.

41:02

My producers were like talking about touring the show since

41:04

May. And I was like, no, it's

41:06

crap. So I think it's because I did not.

41:14

It was such a different show for me. It was

41:16

more personable. It was more

41:19

honest. It was

41:21

more

41:25

vulnerable for me to do this show. But

41:28

I was really much like,

41:30

this needs to be funny. I need to work

41:32

hard and write some jokes and making

41:35

these jokes funny.

41:37

So

41:40

I feel like I did achieve my goal.

41:44

And I really enjoyed doing my show,

41:47

especially

41:47

at Monkey Barrow. They were lovely. I really

41:50

enjoyed doing my show.

41:52

So yeah.

41:59

Am I correct in interpreting

42:02

that as like, I

42:04

feel like you started saying, I

42:07

wanted to pull the show, everyone told me it was great,

42:09

and then I did it and I enjoyed it. I

42:12

feel like, is

42:14

there some reservation in there about how it

42:16

went? Like, do you

42:19

feel you got there or do you feel that you have a responsibility

42:21

to say that you got there because we're doing,

42:24

you know, everything is relentless PR and

42:26

you need to kind of go, Hey man, it

42:28

was amazing.

42:29

No,

42:31

I obviously comedy

42:33

is subjective. I know that people may

42:35

not like me or my type of comedy

42:37

or

42:38

the things that I do on the face and that's fine.

42:40

Comedy is subjective. From

42:43

where I was with this show,

42:45

if you

42:46

want to talk about May or June,

42:49

when we're like doing hardcore previews, July

42:52

to where

42:54

I

42:55

ended up at the end of the fringe

42:58

completely changed around for me personally,

43:01

I didn't want to go to Edinburgh

43:04

because I felt like I was going to

43:06

let people down. I thought I was going to

43:08

let myself down. I thought the show was going to get slated.

43:11

I was so worried because it was such a

43:13

more personal, personal show. I

43:16

was doing things in the show that

43:18

was more vulnerable for me. Things

43:20

that the comedy world, especially

43:22

the ending, didn't really know

43:25

about me unless you knew me. Yeah.

43:30

So all those things I was

43:32

worried about and I didn't know the

43:34

show properly

43:36

the first two days and

43:39

I did a lot of changes

43:41

like structure wise and joke writing

43:43

wise. We added like six new jokes

43:45

that I had to learn within two days into

43:48

the show and

43:50

including like I had to extended

43:52

a story like an idiot at

43:54

the start of the fringe and added

43:57

a magician in it because I completely forgot

43:59

that happened. So

44:03

all of that I had to remember. And then after like the

44:05

first four,

44:07

five days, I started,

44:10

I literally got messages. So Stuart

44:12

Law's directed my show and he

44:15

basically said, every time you say mare to me,

44:17

I'm going to charge you 10 pounds.

44:20

So I owe £150 for the whole process. But

44:25

like at the start

44:27

of the fridge, he'd be like, he came to the

44:29

show, obviously shows where my producers

44:32

and agent and everyone was like, it's great.

44:35

Love it. And I was like, I

44:37

don't know personally

44:39

that this is great. I

44:41

felt like I felt like no offense to them. I felt

44:44

like they were trying to be like very positive around me. And

44:46

if I don't feel positive about something, I will

44:49

say I don't feel positive about it. This

44:51

is this is not me trying to be negative. But I'm

44:53

like, this is

44:55

are you looking at what I'm looking at? Are you looking

44:57

at the same thing? Like, because I don't feel like you

44:59

looking at the same thing that I'm looking at.

45:03

So that's why we go away working

45:05

on it. And

45:09

then coming back and doing the show was the

45:13

point where I was like,

45:15

okay, we'll get into the groove now.

45:17

We're feeling that we enjoyed it a bit more to

45:20

the point where probably like week two

45:23

at the end of week two, I think I texted my

45:25

producer and

45:29

Stuart being like, I think I love my show.

45:32

Yeah. And then it was like, I

45:35

know I get that. And I was like, I

45:37

said, I said, I think I love my

45:39

show. I said, I think I love my show. And

45:42

then by the end of it, I was like, I love my show.

45:44

I'm so pleased. I'm so pleased.

45:46

You just the reason I asked is just that you sounded

45:49

quite kind of downbeat as you were discussing

45:51

it.

45:53

It was a hard process.

45:55

And it taught me a lot

45:56

about my resilience, if you want

45:58

to put it that way, especially

45:59

as well as having to deal with work,

46:04

comedy. And I was

46:06

dealing with something that was quite personal and

46:09

quite hard for me at the time that

46:11

went on for about two years. And

46:14

my mental health was not great at

46:16

all. And people find

46:18

that so interesting

46:20

when I say that because I come up on stage

46:23

and I've got this energy and I'm like, ah.

46:27

But while not realizing behind the scenes,

46:30

I was dealing with something quite hard. That

46:33

was quite difficult for me to deal with.

46:36

And there was a whole thing going

46:38

on. So I had a thing to do with writing the show and

46:41

doing that. And then,

46:44

yeah, with everything going on, it was a lot. But

46:47

for me,

46:50

and the one thing I hate about Edinburgh, to be honest,

46:53

is reviews. I hate reviews, actually hate reviews.

46:55

I hate the pressure of them. I hate, I hate

46:59

them. I just hate them. This is why I enjoy

47:01

festivals like Mac. You don't have to worry about reviews.

47:04

Mac Fest, you don't have to worry about reviews. You don't have

47:06

a great time. The audience is there knowing they have a comedy. You

47:08

just do your show, have a great time. Great. Whereas

47:12

in Edinburgh, you've got to worry about what, no

47:15

offense, some probably older

47:17

straight white man thinks about you.

47:19

So,

47:20

and that's going to influence

47:22

whether you do certain things in the future. So

47:25

I find that very

47:27

quite frustrating. Yeah.

47:29

I hate reviews and I'm an

47:31

older white man. Do you know what I mean? I can't.

47:34

Do you know what I mean? Like reviews themselves

47:36

are, like that whole thing is difficult even

47:39

without inflicting it, inflecting

47:41

it with race and gender and all those other

47:43

things. It's the idea of people having, you

47:45

know, power and influence over an artist

47:48

that aren't the artist themselves, let alone

47:50

all of those other kinds of things. Do

47:53

you read them?

47:56

See, I always say to myself,

47:57

I'm not going to read them in Edinburgh. I'm

48:00

not going to read them. And obviously my agents

48:02

or producers will put them out on social media and

48:04

tag you in them. So you can see the stars,

48:06

but

48:09

some of my family members and some of my friends

48:11

have sent me some

48:13

during Edinburgh. And everyone liked the good

48:16

ones. The classic thing is your mum sending you a

48:18

three star, excitedly, hey look at

48:20

this, and you're like, oh fuck's sake.

48:23

But they were all set, I've been

48:25

set like the

48:25

four star ones, so when I got

48:27

a five star, someone sent that

48:30

to me before my producer's all aged,

48:32

and he would tell me about it. And

48:34

I was obviously quite happy about that. But then you

48:36

realise where you can find the reviews.

48:39

Yeah.

48:41

And then that's where you're like, oh,

48:44

maybe I don't

48:46

have a look, a look, a quick look.

48:49

But I didn't read the whole reviews. I

48:51

just saw some people's opinions,

48:53

some things. And I was just like, yeah, whatever.

48:57

Yeah.

48:58

For me, it's about audiences. That's

49:01

all I care about at the moment. And obviously industry,

49:03

if there's any industry listening, please put

49:05

me on your TV show. Thank

49:07

you so much. I also care about you.

49:10

Well, when I saw you, every time I saw

49:12

you, I've seen you several times,

49:14

the audiences are always going mad for it, and

49:16

you must really feed off that.

49:18

Yeah, it is... It's

49:23

nice to know that they receive what

49:25

I'm giving, and they are as

49:27

enthusiastic and happy as I am.

49:32

And especially when you have a packed

49:34

out room,

49:36

people are

49:39

dancing, singing along,

49:41

and

49:44

understand you. I had

49:46

quite a few people who came up to me after the show, or

49:49

messaged

49:51

me and were like, I can relate to

49:54

your show. Especially because their daughters were like,

49:58

I can relate to your show.

49:59

their children had been diagnosed as

50:02

being dyslexic or

50:03

their family

50:05

members or someone they dated was

50:07

dyslexic

50:10

and having to understand from

50:15

me and being honest about certain things and realising

50:19

they can see themselves in me was just nice.

50:22

When you said you were going through a lot

50:25

of stuff with the show, I wasn't quite

50:27

sure whether you meant the stuff that you talked about

50:29

on stage in the show or whether it was

50:31

other kind of background stuff that you were going through as well.

50:34

There was other background stuff going on as well.

50:37

Okay. Yeah, there was other background stuff.

50:40

As well as obviously I found

50:42

out I was dyslexic which I purposely

50:44

went and got done but that opened

50:47

up a lot of, I

50:50

don't want to say trauma, that's

50:52

not the word I'm looking for. It opened up a lot

50:54

about

50:57

me realising this

51:00

is the way I am.

51:01

Certain things like relationships or even

51:04

how I talk to people or how

51:06

I interact with people.

51:08

It made it

51:10

harder for me to accept that

51:12

this is who I am because

51:15

of it

51:15

and I had to really look at myself

51:20

regarding that and then having to deal with

51:23

my own mental health. Like I said, I had

51:25

a sort of thing going on that was going on for

51:27

like 20 months. I can't go into detail about it but

51:30

that was going on and that was to do with work.

51:33

So I was worried about that. I was worried about my

51:35

future regarding that and then

51:39

personally I

51:40

felt

51:42

probably for the last like four

51:44

years or so that I've not

51:47

been achieving and

51:50

that's not professionally. I'm talking about personally.

51:52

I feel like

51:54

I owe property in this country

51:56

and that's been paid off but

51:59

my parents live in that. flat. I am

52:02

of a certain age. I don't have any kids. I'm not

52:04

in a relationship. And I feel like a failure

52:07

in those kind of things. So

52:10

that was something I was dealing with. And

52:12

then obviously,

52:14

I haven't tried any show,

52:16

like an idiot, you know me to do that in nine months.

52:19

Having to deal with costume

52:21

having to deal with

52:23

you still digging like up and down the country like

52:26

a maniac. They

52:28

haven't to deal with taxes. And I'm like, this

52:31

test man just take all my life up all the money.

52:33

Why would you do that? That's ridiculous. So

52:37

it was just it was a lot. And

52:39

I felt like my world is a lot. And

52:41

this is why, for example, I've come away from London

52:44

this week to spend some time by

52:46

myself. And I've made you do a

52:48

podcast. I'm so sorry. I didn't realize

52:50

the context. No, no, it's fine.

52:52

It's perfect. It's fine. It's not going to be an hour out of the day.

53:00

Alex Franklin

53:01

says I would love to know as excuses

53:03

MC the lot of open mics what it's like to

53:06

see so many people at the very start of

53:08

doing comedy. Does she notice any changes

53:10

year on year? Also, huge

53:12

thank you to her because she literally makes everyone feel

53:14

so welcome. I and loads of others did our

53:16

first ever gigs with her and she made that something

53:19

that could be terrifying genuinely such a lovely

53:21

experience.

53:22

Oh, thanks. I

53:26

get that comment quite a lot. And it's not to boast,

53:29

but quite nice. Good,

53:32

I'm glad. I want

53:35

to face on one of

53:36

the nicest MCs around the

53:38

circuit.

53:39

So yeah,

53:42

I completely

53:44

forgot the question. The question

53:46

was there was ages ago, the question was

53:48

what it's like to see so many people at the very start

53:51

of doing comedy.

53:53

Yeah, it's actually quite weird, to be honest. It's

53:56

quite intriguing. I

54:00

was that person,

54:02

and we all were that person, at

54:06

the beginning of our career. And

54:08

I remember my first gig, Beed, or on, for example,

54:11

like I said, Comedy Reggin's the only one that I really MC

54:14

on a weekly basis

54:17

since the last four years. It's the

54:20

only one I do. That's

54:22

like on an open mic level. So it is really like

54:25

new people, or like people

54:27

who are starting out.

54:29

And you see their nerves, you see

54:32

the small things they do, which

54:34

are like that's, even

54:37

if it's like stage stuff, like I'm always

54:39

like move the goddamn mic

54:42

out of the way. Like simple

54:45

things.

54:47

And like how

54:49

people stand. And I

54:51

appreciate their nerves involved in stuff like that.

54:54

But it's

54:54

always intriguing to see people's

54:57

resilience.

54:57

I feel like this is the theme of like

54:59

your podcast today. They're

55:02

coming back. I think that is appropriate to

55:04

you and what you're, everything you're doing.

55:07

Yeah. I think seeing them come

55:09

back, even if they've had a shitty

55:11

gig, come back and be

55:13

like, I'm

55:16

going to still come do it.

55:18

I'm going to push through.

55:20

And I think

55:21

when you have someone like me who's been there, who

55:24

understands the open mic circuit, who

55:27

wants

55:29

up and coming people to do well, that

55:33

is helpful in terms of encouragement and

55:35

gives them faith to know

55:38

they can do it. But it is

55:41

like, especially nowadays, it's very different to what I did

55:43

open mic circuit. There's so many of them.

55:47

A lot of them are bringers and people hate bringers,

55:50

which I appreciate. But it's

55:52

something you have to do. And people

55:54

come up to me after shows sometimes at

55:56

Comedy Virgins and even ask

55:58

me, oh, how do I end up? seeing

56:01

and I'm like how many gigs have you done and then like nine

56:03

and I'm like

56:05

let's

56:06

just think in small doses

56:08

shall we let's just think in small

56:10

doses before you think about that

56:12

or like they

56:15

come up to me and go how can how do I get to ten minutes

56:17

how do I get get in a ten minute paid

56:19

spot and I'm like how many gigs you've done and I'm

56:22

like seven I'm like again

56:24

let's just rethink this again shall

56:26

we because that's gonna take you a

56:28

while to get to where you want to

56:30

be and I feel like people have such

56:36

a it's a great enthusiasm

56:38

but at the same time it's a misunderstanding

56:41

about what it takes to be a comic

56:43

in this day and age and

56:46

to be seen and to get paid on

56:48

a like on the level that we are getting

56:50

paid is it's

56:54

hard work and it will

56:56

be you getting sick of your material

56:58

I still do a damn joke that I've been

57:00

doing for the last eight years that I should not be doing

57:02

but it's a good joke and I know it works as

57:04

a sonic joke but

57:09

we have to do the circuit you have

57:11

to do certain things and you have to get past

57:13

it you will hit your material

57:14

but it's about building it's about you

57:16

growing and it's interesting when you see

57:19

the people who do come through who do

57:22

have that mindset to be like

57:24

I need to just keep

57:26

working I need to rewrite I need to edit

57:28

I need to just get my stage persona solid

57:31

because it took me two years to figure out

57:33

who I was to be who wants to be on stage to me too

57:35

yes

57:36

and you have people who come up there who

57:38

are very cocky you'd be like I'm the shit

57:41

I know funny and you and they go and die

57:43

and they ask and open my night and you're like

57:45

say that again well I think

57:50

I think the first part of what you said there about

57:52

like that's not a thing that I'm used to hearing

57:55

on this show actually and I really appreciate

57:57

the humility of it is recognizing

57:59

that

57:59

you can learn something from

58:02

the determination of open mics,

58:06

of very new open mics, to actually be

58:09

as a professional comic with a bit of profile,

58:11

a bit of income, and to be able to say, do

58:14

you know what, I can learn something from seeing how

58:16

these people can come up, have a bad time, and

58:18

then get back up and do it again.

58:20

I really admire that humility. I think you're

58:22

absolutely right. I should also say the official position

58:25

of this podcast is that you do not have to do bringer

58:27

gigs. I can't let anyone say,

58:29

you've got to do them on this without pushing back on that.

58:31

I'm very lucky to have begun comedy when they were

58:34

to sing and thank Christ, I don't know how I

58:36

would cope with that. Did you do bringers ever?

58:39

Yeah, I did bringers. I

58:41

appreciate the circuit has changed since

58:43

we've done it, especially the London circuit.

58:45

There's so many gigs, there's so many

58:48

out there. It

58:50

does feel like people are being

58:52

told they have to do bringers. You don't

58:54

have to do anything you don't want to do. You

58:57

should just find a show that you enjoy doing and

58:59

do that on a regular basis in order for you

59:01

to figure out who. Obviously, you have to

59:03

do the shitty ones. You have to do the shitty

59:05

ones. The

59:10

first thing I give the people I teach on the

59:12

course is a list of open white nights

59:14

from the circuit and a list of pro nights

59:16

from the circuit. You have to go and

59:18

watch one of each. Some

59:21

of them have been to the tourist, the

59:24

well-known open white circuit in

59:26

London. I'm not going to name it. And

59:30

come back and go, oh my God, that was the worst thing

59:32

I've ever seen in my life. Oh, wow. And

59:35

I'm like, but those... And then they've

59:37

gone and after they've completed the course, they've gone

59:39

and done the show so

59:42

they can experience what it's like

59:44

to do the show and die there in their arse

59:46

or hated it.

59:47

It's something you have to do. And

59:49

you don't have to do

59:50

bringer gigs. People think I run Comedy

59:52

Virgins because I've been there for so long. I don't. It's

59:55

not my rules.

59:55

It's not my policies.

59:58

I'm just an MC there. and

1:00:01

I worked in that pub for 15 years.

1:00:04

I've been in that pub for 15, 16 years. That

1:00:06

place is home.

1:00:08

It's not my rules for

1:00:10

it to bring a brook.

1:00:12

But it is one of the nicest open mic nights

1:00:14

on the circuit. But

1:00:18

it is very different to when I was starting and

1:00:20

you do hear horror stories and

1:00:22

you do hear certain things, you're like, oh, no,

1:00:25

that's not for me. And I can't... What

1:00:29

was I doing the other day? And someone tried to make... I

1:00:31

can't remember what it was. But I had to do like five

1:00:33

minutes. And I was like, I can't do five

1:00:35

minutes now. That's ridiculous. Like,

1:00:38

how am I going to do five minutes? I think it was like

1:00:40

four steps. I think it was like an audition or something like

1:00:42

that. Yeah, it was like some

1:00:45

sort of audition. It was like five minutes. I was

1:00:47

like, five minutes. And

1:00:49

I remember talking quite fast. I was like, because

1:00:52

I was trying to like cram as much in.

1:00:54

But anyway, it's

1:00:56

an interesting world. The open mic circuit nowadays

1:00:58

is interesting. But I

1:00:59

do like seeing people come back and

1:01:01

seeing them change their material

1:01:05

and hone things in.

1:01:07

And I will be... If someone asks me a question after

1:01:09

the show,

1:01:10

I will be as honest as I possibly can. And

1:01:13

it will be things like, yeah, you're going to be shit. You're

1:01:15

going to be tired of your material. You're going to have to keep doing it.

1:01:19

Or

1:01:21

being like, yes, most

1:01:23

open lights in London nowadays are

1:01:25

bringers, but you don't have to do the bringers.

1:01:27

There are other ones as well.

1:01:29

So, yeah.

1:01:30

Okay,

1:01:31

okay. I've got two more questions

1:01:33

for you. And then I'm going to let you enjoy your holiday. This is

1:01:36

from Tom May... Well, this is a minor one from

1:01:38

Tom Mayhew. He says, have you managed to get a Twix advert

1:01:40

yet? No, exactly.

1:01:43

I'm trying. I'm trying. We're really trying.

1:01:46

I'm just elevating that message. I want you to do

1:01:48

a Twix advert. Tom's question is, the Edinburgh

1:01:50

Fringe is very white and very middle class.

1:01:52

Do you think it is something you'll keep coming back

1:01:54

to long term?

1:01:57

Yes, I think it will be. I

1:01:59

don't... No, I don't know how you feel about this, Jett.

1:02:02

It feels like the fringe is kind

1:02:04

of dying.

1:02:08

I wonder if the baby dying is a strong one.

1:02:11

I certainly am aware that

1:02:13

I'm more keenly aware than

1:02:17

ever of how exclusive

1:02:19

the fringe is. I used to think the fringe

1:02:21

was, and that's partly me and a

1:02:23

lot of people, I think, becoming more aware rather

1:02:26

than the fringe itself changing. I'm certainly

1:02:28

aware, more aware, as the, you

1:02:31

know,

1:02:31

if I say, oh, the accommodation is

1:02:33

so expensive nowadays, that's freezing loads of people out.

1:02:36

Well, I'm sure 20 years ago or 30 years ago when

1:02:38

I first went there as a teenager, I'm sure

1:02:40

the accommodation was comparatively nuts

1:02:42

and was comparatively freezing loads of

1:02:44

people out, and I just didn't know about it.

1:02:46

Obviously, it's way worse than that, but I think that's probably

1:02:49

a perennial problem. I do

1:02:52

think that, yeah, it's changing in lots of ways. I think

1:02:54

that more and

1:02:56

more we're seeing like it used to be where you

1:02:58

built your audience, and now it's where you sell

1:03:00

merch to your audience because you built your audience

1:03:02

online. Or, you know, that's like a

1:03:04

way of looking at it. There are more

1:03:06

and more and more comics than ever. There are more,

1:03:08

I always think of it like a student union.

1:03:10

When I was a student, the student union was

1:03:12

like, it was like almost

1:03:15

like a garage with a couple of sofas

1:03:17

that you dragged in there, and it was like a purple

1:03:20

light bulb, and it was our space, and it was like the clubhouse.

1:03:23

And then,

1:03:24

and now we're fighting, you know, I mean, God knows

1:03:26

when I lasted a student gig, but maybe 10

1:03:29

years ago, I'd go and do a student unigig,

1:03:31

and I'd go, oh my God, this is plasma screens showing

1:03:33

adverts in every corner, and it's a Starbucks. And to

1:03:36

me, so that's changed. So the

1:03:38

fringe has changed in that respect, whereby it

1:03:41

is commercialized to the extent that sometimes

1:03:44

you sort of can't believe it. Some of the outdoor spaces

1:03:46

and the branding and the enormous hoardings and the kind

1:03:48

of artificial constructions outside

1:03:51

that are all about funneling bearings of people.

1:03:54

I suppose the free fringe in its various

1:03:56

iterations is the closest thing

1:03:58

I feel to. a fringe or

1:04:01

as it used to be and even then you know the

1:04:03

blunderbuss and the blundergarden and that kind of area

1:04:05

that almost feels like that's the new free

1:04:07

fringe paradigm as the free fringe becomes more

1:04:10

if not corporate then at least I'm on my

1:04:12

soapbox here I

1:04:15

think it's

1:04:16

I think it is

1:04:17

one of the biggest challenges is how exclusive

1:04:19

it is to people who can't

1:04:21

afford to be there.

1:04:23

Yeah I would completely

1:04:25

agree

1:04:26

and

1:04:27

I did say like

1:04:29

I really enjoyed the pleasant of

1:04:31

my venue last year but

1:04:35

I just couldn't financially afford doing

1:04:38

that for two years in a row. Yeah

1:04:41

it was especially when

1:04:43

you're considered to be like a new up and coming

1:04:45

comedian I feel like

1:04:47

I've got a point to prove and

1:04:50

I wouldn't be able to do that if

1:04:53

I

1:04:53

spend all my money yeah because

1:04:56

I just feel like you're going up there for what?

1:05:01

For you to do your art every day

1:05:03

for the end

1:05:05

then you lose money

1:05:07

for what outcome? Yeah

1:05:09

so it is very

1:05:12

it is

1:05:14

very not very open

1:05:17

to

1:05:19

diversity or

1:05:21

even accessibility especially

1:05:24

some venues

1:05:28

and I

1:05:30

would prefer if the model of the fringe changed

1:05:34

where it wasn't a whole month or

1:05:37

if it was a whole month it wasn't every

1:05:39

day.

1:05:41

I feel like giving

1:05:44

people the

1:05:44

option to have

1:05:46

more days off is

1:05:50

better for people's mental health

1:05:55

but also there

1:05:58

is enough people nowadays that you could feel feeling venues.

1:06:02

And I just think

1:06:04

somehow, and

1:06:07

I appreciate venues need to make

1:06:09

money and stuff like that. But

1:06:13

it's a lot of work for us to get out there

1:06:16

to do

1:06:17

and to not

1:06:21

reap any benefits.

1:06:24

And to be doing

1:06:26

shows like I think the most shows I did this year

1:06:29

was five in a day. So

1:06:31

four in a day. Whereas

1:06:34

last year, it was 80 in a day. And I

1:06:37

was just like, what's the point

1:06:40

when you're not making money? And

1:06:43

I just think the whole friends situation

1:06:46

needs to be a bit more open to allowing

1:06:48

people to feel comfortable, to feel safe

1:06:51

in terms of sexuality, race,

1:06:56

gender,

1:06:58

class

1:07:01

for everyone to feel like the

1:07:04

fringes and open space. So

1:07:06

everyone's on the same level playing field.

1:07:09

Yeah, I think one of the

1:07:11

one of the things I've always thought about comedy is that comedy

1:07:13

is full of nice people who love comedy. And

1:07:16

it's also full of wankers who realize that

1:07:18

nice people can be exploited. Yeah.

1:07:20

And I think there is an element of that which

1:07:22

is just pure capitalism. And there

1:07:25

is an element of it whereby the fringe.

1:07:28

There are people at the fringe who

1:07:30

want to support artists, but

1:07:33

there's a lot more institutions

1:07:35

at the fringe who give the appearance

1:07:37

of wanting to support artists, but actually,

1:07:39

they're simply a capitalist institution. And that's

1:07:42

their role. So I mean, their role is to make

1:07:44

money for themselves and their stakeholders and what have you. And

1:07:47

part of the game of making money is to appear

1:07:50

as if the comedians are the most important

1:07:52

thing.

1:07:53

But they're not the alcohol sales are the most important thing,

1:07:55

or the ticket price is the most important thing. And

1:07:59

it would be lovely to think that going forward, there

1:08:02

was any way at all that that could change.

1:08:04

Yeah, but it's up to

1:08:07

the big shots, isn't it? It's up to the, like,

1:08:10

I appreciate, like, you know how they were like the prize

1:08:12

this

1:08:12

year may not happen? The

1:08:16

Edinburgh prize it is.

1:08:17

Part of me was like

1:08:19

quite disappointed, obviously, for

1:08:21

like the debut, especially,

1:08:23

if that didn't happen.

1:08:26

But a part of me was also like, good.

1:08:29

Because Edinburgh does feel like

1:08:31

a competition at times.

1:08:33

Yeah.

1:08:34

And that's

1:08:36

not what it should be. It should be about

1:08:39

comedians enjoying what

1:08:42

we do, which is comedy. Yes.

1:08:45

And it's the same with like the reviews. And

1:08:48

it just feels like fringe compared to some of the other

1:08:50

festivals that happen. It's more

1:08:53

competitive. It is more,

1:08:56

like punchy. And

1:08:59

that's not what I think the spirit of the fringe should be.

1:09:03

It should be about comedians

1:09:04

hanging out. And

1:09:07

the rest of the world enjoying our art. Then we should

1:09:10

burn down the fringe, not the building or the people,

1:09:12

but the concept of the fringe and

1:09:14

then be awarded spirit of the fringe. And then we can

1:09:16

restart on the right. Yes, exactly. And

1:09:20

I've

1:09:20

always said like how, like

1:09:22

people's angle, especially

1:09:25

what they're saying at a comedy is like to do an Edinburgh fringe

1:09:27

show. And I've always been

1:09:29

like, it's a marathon. It's not a race. You

1:09:32

should always like think about

1:09:35

what your purpose would be in the Edinburgh fringe is.

1:09:39

So I think that's my

1:09:41

catch phrase when it comes to like telling, talking

1:09:43

to especially new comedians, it's like, it's a marathon. It's not

1:09:46

a race. So you have to put

1:09:48

one foot ahead of another outside

1:09:50

of your means in order for you to do

1:09:52

what? Think

1:09:55

about your purpose. What's your

1:09:57

intention? Why are you

1:09:59

doing it?

1:09:59

it.

1:10:03

Thank you.

1:10:04

Thanks, Sakeeza. I've got one

1:10:06

very last thing, which is your law. What's your

1:10:11

law? What's Sakeeza's law? If you could

1:10:13

put one law into comedy that was like

1:10:15

either the sum

1:10:18

of your knowledge or a thing that you

1:10:20

think people would benefit from doing, what

1:10:22

would your law be?

1:10:27

Oh. Oh?

1:10:32

Oh. That there should always

1:10:34

be a rider backstage.

1:10:36

Thank

1:10:39

you. That's perfect.

1:10:46

So that was Sakeeza. Thank you so much

1:10:49

to her for interrupting her holiday to come

1:10:51

onto the show. What a superstar and an incredibly

1:10:54

inspiring work

1:10:57

ethic and sort of the necessity behind

1:10:59

that. I absolutely understand. And I'm

1:11:02

really appreciative of Sakeeza for coming on and kind of laying

1:11:04

all that bare. Really, really appreciate that.

1:11:07

She just doesn't stop. And I think we

1:11:09

can all be inspired by that. So catch

1:11:11

up with her on Twitter or Instagram at Sakeeza Comedy

1:11:14

and go to Sakeeza Comedy dot com to find out

1:11:16

more about her where she's on tour and whereabouts you can

1:11:18

find her live. Now you can

1:11:20

catch up with me at Stuart Goldsmith dot

1:11:22

com or indeed on all the socials at Stuart Goldsmith

1:11:24

Comedy. Or you can join the Facebook group

1:11:26

for this podcast, which you can find on Facebook

1:11:28

by looking for it on Facebook. And

1:11:31

I have recently discovered there have been a few problems with spammers

1:11:34

evading the four questions that you need to...

1:11:36

four intriguing questions that you need to

1:11:39

answer to get into the group. So I have changed

1:11:41

the settings on that accordingly. If you find that

1:11:43

you're getting bounced out because the settings are

1:11:45

too strict now, then please get

1:11:47

in touch with a mutual friend who can

1:11:49

put you the right way or email

1:11:52

me. And despite having said

1:11:54

over, I mean, I don't know what, a thousand times

1:11:56

on this podcast, you can email me info at Comedian's

1:11:59

Comedian dot com. You can now only email

1:12:01

me stewart at comedianscomedian.com

1:12:04

because of reasons I will go into in a post-amble

1:12:07

in just a moment. Thank you to Nathan

1:12:09

Wood for producing and editing this show. The

1:12:11

music was by Rob Smout and the title was by Asher

1:12:13

Treleven and the logging was by

1:12:16

Suzie Lewis. Thank you very much for listening.

1:12:19

More intel and info on spoilers

1:12:21

at Soho Theatre coming your way very

1:12:23

soon. But hang around for a brief and irascible

1:12:26

post-amble. Cheerio. Oh, how

1:12:28

am I ending now? Matthew Crosby suggested I

1:12:30

end all of my podcast episodes

1:12:33

as I did on a recent one. What

1:12:35

was the phrase? Wouldn't it be nice to

1:12:37

have a consistent self?

1:12:39

Take care.

1:12:49

Right, post-amblers, this is going to be brief. Oh

1:12:51

my sweet Christ. You will have

1:12:53

seen on, if you follow the socials

1:12:55

here in the Facebook group, you will have seen that last

1:12:57

week I discovered that my email

1:13:00

address, info at comedianscomedian.com, which

1:13:02

is sort of connected to the comedianscomedian.com

1:13:04

site, but pushes through to Gmail because

1:13:07

on Gmail that's where all the things go and I can, and

1:13:10

I use this as key to the story as well. I

1:13:12

use, as we know, person with ADHD, very

1:13:14

busy, very busy brain, lots on, try

1:13:16

and get a shitload of stuff done in

1:13:18

the world in case I die. Can't

1:13:21

mention that without thinking, oh, that'll be weird to listen to

1:13:23

after I'm gone. Not for me, it won't. Um,

1:13:26

but I try and get stuff done,

1:13:28

right? And I use my email as my inbox

1:13:31

and the whole thing is, it's

1:13:33

a pretty well-oiled machine until

1:13:36

it turns out that all email

1:13:39

sent to info at comedianscomedian.com since

1:13:41

May the 15th this year, thank

1:13:44

Christ, has been not

1:13:46

getting through. It's not been getting through to Gmail. So

1:13:49

if you are someone who uses multiple accounts on

1:13:51

Gmail, just pop along to settings, all

1:13:53

settings, accounts and forwarding, and just check

1:13:55

there isn't a little red bar saying, alert, alert, something's

1:13:57

gone wrong, but we're not going to tell you. Not.

1:14:00

Not to mention the fact that a few times

1:14:02

in the last few months I've thought, I don't

1:14:04

seem to be getting notified as much as I used

1:14:06

to. Maybe things aren't... You

1:14:08

know, it's older stuff that I set up a few years

1:14:11

ago and I've been using Stuart at for a long time now. I

1:14:14

thought, I'll just send myself a test. And it turns

1:14:16

out if you send an email with the subject Test

1:14:18

from Stuart at ComediansComedian.com to

1:14:21

Info at ComediansComedian.com, you

1:14:23

fucking get it. You still get it. So

1:14:25

how was I supposed to know? And

1:14:27

now as we speak, Gmail is pulling

1:14:29

through 3,700 unviewed emails. I'm

1:14:35

pretty sure most of them are notifications. I've

1:14:37

been hacking through loads of that. You know, you've got a message

1:14:39

on LinkedIn, blah, blah. And

1:14:42

now I'm down to, I think, a core 500. I

1:14:44

have in the last half an hour seen,

1:14:47

hey, can you do this big corporate resilience

1:14:50

gig in Glasgow for us in mid-September? Hello,

1:14:53

are you getting my messages? Fizz

1:14:55

is out. Sparkle gone. Oh,

1:14:58

so that's, I mean, this is heartbreaking.

1:15:00

I've had tech requests from insiders. I've

1:15:02

had people join

1:15:04

and people unsubscribe from the Insiders Club.

1:15:06

And I always like to, if I can, to send

1:15:09

a cheery, hey, thanks so much for your patronage.

1:15:11

And we've all got, you know, financial situations.

1:15:13

Sorry to see you go. Hope you enjoy the show. Haven't been

1:15:15

able to do any of them fucking things. Like

1:15:18

I'm hacking through hundreds and hundreds

1:15:21

of emails and my world is falling down

1:15:23

around my ears. So I'm going to

1:15:25

get back to it right now. It's,

1:15:28

I don't know, what can we learn from this? I'm

1:15:30

an idiot. But I'm not an idiot. Because I don't

1:15:33

think, I mean, I am an idiot, but I

1:15:36

don't see how I could possibly have done this. I've got

1:15:38

to, I must remember to do this. I'm going to auto generate

1:15:41

an email once a month that says, hey, just check in

1:15:43

on your accounts and forwarding and make sure that hasn't happened

1:15:45

again. I mean,

1:15:48

hot Christ.

1:15:50

It's just murder. The

1:15:52

amount of, I'm so sorry. If you're someone who's

1:15:54

like, Stu normally replies, where have you been? There's a lovely

1:15:57

person called Heidi who I occasionally correspond with.

1:16:00

I put on Facebook, hey listen, this

1:16:02

thing went wrong. And she commented, oh

1:16:04

that's nice, I've been wondering whether you were

1:16:06

just ignoring me now. I'm not ignoring

1:16:08

anybody, I try to reply to everything,

1:16:11

everything, and there's a lot. And

1:16:13

now it's all come at once. So

1:16:15

back to it I go. Extras available

1:16:17

at comedianscomedia.com slash insiders.

1:16:21

My brain is melting, come and see spoilers

1:16:23

at Soho at the end of November. Good

1:16:26

bye, oh God.

1:16:30

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