0:01

What is he doing? Planning

0:05

his funeral. He

0:07

wants that as his hearse. You

0:12

always said, Mummy, that you couldn't do the

0:14

job without Papa by your side. That

0:17

he's your strength and stay. Camilla

0:22

is my strength. And

0:25

my stay. I

0:29

couldn't do it without her. I

0:32

will reflect on it. Take

0:35

advice. And

0:37

give you an answer soon. Thank

0:42

you. Welcome

0:47

to The Crown, the official podcast.

0:50

I'm Edith Bowman and this is the

0:52

show that follows the sixth and final

0:55

season of the Netflix series The Crown,

0:57

episode by episode. We've

0:59

taken you behind the scenes, spoken

1:01

to so many of the wonderful creatives

1:03

involved and immersed ourselves in the stories.

1:07

On this episode, we'll be saying

1:09

farewell to The Crown by diving

1:11

into the final episode of season

1:13

six, titled Sleep, Dere Sleep.

1:17

After 30 years together, Charles

1:19

decides the time has come to

1:21

propose to Camilla, but

1:24

can't do so without his mother's

1:26

permission. The Queen

1:28

seeks the approval of the church,

1:30

state and Charles's sons before

1:33

giving her sign off to the marriage. But

1:36

having been unsettled by discussions

1:38

surrounding her own funeral planning,

1:41

the Queen starts to consider

1:43

her reign and ultimately her

1:45

legacy. We'll cover

1:47

specific events and scenes that feature in

1:49

this episode, so if you haven't managed

1:51

to watch episode 10 yet, you'd

1:54

better watch it now or very soon. Coming

1:57

up in this episode of The Crown, the official

1:59

podcast. official podcast. I'll

2:02

sit down with Olivia Williams to talk

2:04

about Camilla's journey in this season. She

2:06

really started off in such a

2:09

dark place and has kept her

2:11

counsel and kept her head when

2:13

all about her were losing theirs.

2:15

She's an example to us all.

2:17

The research team fill us in

2:20

on the complicated road to Charles

2:22

and Camilla's historic wedding. It

2:24

has to be a civil ceremony with

2:26

a religious party afterwards. You had this

2:29

juxtaposition of hands that meant that essentially

2:31

the wedding was a theoretical impossibility. And

2:33

of course, we couldn't finish the

2:36

season without sitting down one

2:38

final time with writer and creator

2:40

of the crown, Peter

2:42

Morgan. I suppose the things I'm

2:44

most proud of are the very human hurdles you

2:46

have to overcome to actually make something like this.

2:51

But first, let's kick off this episode

2:53

with someone who's been a huge part of

2:55

the crown since the very beginning, director

2:58

of photography, Adriana Goldman.

3:02

Adriana, we're so happy that you're here

3:04

to talk about your wonderful work as

3:06

the O.P. director of

3:08

photography, cinematographer on the crown

3:11

award-winning. You must have

3:13

like multiple shelves with all the awards you've

3:15

won for this show on this. Congratulations. Thank

3:17

you so much. Thank you. Do you

3:19

mind if we go back though and talk about how you

3:22

first started? No, not at all. I'm going

3:24

to cry. Well, I met

3:26

Steven in Rio in 2012. Steven

3:31

Doherty. So he

3:33

was developing this feature film called Trash

3:35

because we did it together. I

3:37

was already a big fan because Billy

3:40

Elias is something that is on my

3:42

top five list anyway. And

3:45

so it was just, I said, whatever he's

3:47

doing, let's try to be available. So

3:52

he came to Rio. We did Trash. Was

3:56

an amazing experience. So he comes

3:58

back in 14 to release. the movie.

4:00

And I remember that by then I

4:02

had read something about Netflix and Peter

4:04

Morgan and all developing

4:07

something together. And

4:09

by luck, I had already worked with

4:11

Peter Morgan on 360 feature

4:13

film that Fernando Mireles directed. So

4:16

he knew who I was. And so

4:18

Stephen came to Rio for the premiere.

4:20

And I said, So what is this

4:22

thing you're developing? He

4:24

said, Why do you want to know? I

4:27

said, Well, because I absolutely loved

4:29

working with you. And I really sincerely

4:31

hope that's not the only one. And if

4:34

you want to do it, it's yours. I

4:37

mean, honestly, in seconds. And

4:39

I was like a little bit skeptical. I mean, this

4:41

cannot be that easy. You know, this Brazilian

4:43

GOP moving to London to shoot

4:46

a series about the Royal Family. I

4:48

mean, there's absolutely no part of my

4:50

background. And but I think maybe that

4:52

was one of the reasons they chose

4:54

me. I mean, just just for this

4:56

kind of a fresh approach. And I

4:58

think there was if there was something

5:00

very specific, we discussed about season one

5:02

was kind of the less is more

5:04

sort of philosophy. I mean, we felt

5:07

that by then the majority of

5:09

the TV shows that were available

5:12

were a little too cutty, a little

5:14

too pacy. Yeah, so maybe one of

5:16

the things that we could try to

5:18

reestablish was a kind of a more

5:20

filmic grammar where you don't need too

5:22

much fat, you can concentrate on the

5:24

dialogues, you can, you know, give the

5:26

actors time to perform, and

5:28

the audience time enough to actually read

5:31

the performances and even like learn something,

5:33

you know, about history and the politics

5:35

and relationship between the young

5:38

queen and, and Churchill and

5:40

etc. So that was a very

5:42

clear discussion. I remember us

5:44

discussing that this shouldn't be between

5:47

brackets, Hollywood like, or

5:49

too glamorous or too glossy. I mean, this

5:51

was just after the Second World War. So

5:54

we knew London was in kind of a

5:56

bad shape. And even the palace was supposed

5:58

to be run down. So it was

6:01

kind of the anti-glamour approach. And

6:03

I really liked that because I myself

6:06

have this need to

6:08

believe. I mean, it's always about

6:10

trying to make it more believable. And

6:13

I think we succeeded on season one. It's a

6:16

low pace sort of season. And

6:20

I think that we achieved what

6:22

we achieved mainly because we gave

6:24

the actors, we gave Claire Foy

6:27

screen time to shine throughout

6:29

the seasons. You feel there's going to

6:31

be an increase in pace. And

6:34

they turn little by little, a little

6:36

bit more contemporary, a little bit more

6:38

cutty and pacey. The show has evolved.

6:41

But I think there's still a very clear

6:43

visual mark that you can

6:45

relate to and follow.

6:47

There'll be people listening to this who are kind

6:49

of like, what is the craft of a DOP?

6:54

How would you describe? Thanks for asking. Nobody

6:56

knows. Yeah.

6:59

It's really strange. I mean, people really don't

7:02

know what we do. Hello. So

7:04

I'd say that the

7:06

main creative collaborators of

7:08

a director are the

7:12

production designer and the DOP.

7:15

The production designer is responsible

7:17

for designing sets, finding locations,

7:19

dressing locations. So there's a

7:21

lot of work for the

7:23

art department. The camera department

7:25

that the director of photography

7:27

run includes

7:30

camera equipment, meaning cameras, lenses,

7:33

camera movement, meaning

7:36

cranes, dollies, steady

7:38

cam shots, and lighting.

7:41

So I, on a show like

7:43

The Crown, my crew, all combined,

7:46

grips, sparks, and camera

7:48

people. Probably we're talking

7:50

about something like 60 people. So

7:53

there's a lot of management. And then effectively

7:56

on a shooting day, so I'm

7:59

lighting. creating it, you

8:01

know, as discussed throughout prep.

8:04

Then you rehearse, you try to

8:07

create a choreography and understand

8:09

the movements, you know, the actors

8:11

are going to do for a

8:13

specific scene. Then you try to

8:15

break that choreography into

8:18

shots or bricks, like I call

8:21

it. And then you discuss eventually

8:24

so how many shots you need to be able

8:26

to cover that dialogue or that action scene or

8:28

whatever. And then

8:30

we start shooting it and then

8:32

the discussion about sizes and lenses

8:34

and, you know, wide angle lenses versus

8:36

long lenses. And how does that

8:38

change the depth of field and

8:40

how much that gives

8:43

more relevance to the actor or separates

8:45

the actor from the background. So this

8:47

is all a little

8:49

bit of a science that we have

8:51

to discuss because you can tell the

8:53

same story in so many different ways. And

8:56

also to be able

8:58

to keep whatever grammar you establish

9:01

at the very beginning, to keep it

9:04

consistent is one of my

9:06

main jobs. Episode

9:09

10. It's a big finale, it's a big

9:11

goodbye. What were the conversations you had with

9:13

Steven kind of going into this and the

9:15

vision to close this whole thing? Steven

9:18

elevates, you know, whatever, whatever

9:21

he's doing. So because of his

9:23

theater background, there's also an interesting

9:26

way of understanding the space,

9:28

the physical space. But

9:30

also, I mean, scene by scene, there's always

9:33

a little bit of magic or a little

9:35

bit of magic realism that he loves and

9:37

he always brings to the show. I

9:40

mean, very specific moments between the

9:43

other queens, right? And Melda, the

9:45

current queen, is struggling

9:47

in a way that she kind

9:50

of sometimes feels like she agrees

9:52

with Charles, that the monarchy

9:54

needs some sort of a refreshment, a little

9:56

bit of renovation. So she

9:58

struggles to write these things. speech and again

10:01

brilliantly Peter builds this kind of I'm

10:03

gonna say suspense or fake suspense because

10:05

we all know she's not gonna resign

10:07

but like there's a there's this kind

10:10

of a ooh maybe

10:12

now you know I've been here for

10:14

50 years so maybe it's time for

10:16

me to resign etc so he creates

10:18

and Steven then drives that absolutely

10:21

brilliantly any melder of course the

10:23

performances so you really think for

10:25

a few moments that you know

10:28

maybe you know let's reread history

10:31

yeah and then just give the crown

10:33

a different finale of course that's not

10:35

what happens but and also that again

10:38

the magic realism of having the Queen

10:40

talking to her younger self you know

10:42

separately so she talks to Claire Foy

10:44

and then she talks to Olivia

10:48

and then there's a moment where they all

10:50

come together they all there on the

10:52

day when you filmed it then yeah

10:54

no I mean

10:57

we did do so we did we

11:00

melder and Claire yeah at

11:02

the location we used for Windsor

11:05

Castle yeah then we did another

11:07

scene with a melder and

11:09

Olivia Coleman so these are all thoughts

11:12

right so this is the the

11:14

the younger Queen talking to the current Queen

11:16

yeah are you sure you don't want to

11:19

do this are you sure you you

11:21

know are you sure you're balanced

11:23

enough to write this speech or just

11:26

think about it so it's a kind of

11:28

a more like an internal dialogue but

11:31

it's just wonderful and again the

11:33

way Steven choreographs the whole thing

11:35

so they never face to face

11:37

because you melder doesn't want to

11:39

face her own self so

11:42

she she's always kind of avoiding the

11:44

eye-to-eye contact and this

11:46

is a hundred percent Steven and

11:49

then he comes with those ideas and no

11:51

no no no they're not gonna look to

11:53

each other until they do Monarchy

11:57

is something you are not what you do

11:59

the crap in a symbol

12:01

of permanence, of stability, of continuity.

12:03

If you step down, you

12:05

will be symbolizing instability and impermanence.

12:10

You'll also be indicating a luxury of choice,

12:13

which is the one thing we cannot have if we

12:15

claim the crown is also our birthright. So

12:17

you would have a superannuated old lady running

12:19

the show, one of fit, energetic

12:21

Prince of Wales watches on, straining at

12:23

the leash. But I

12:26

don't see you as decrepit. Since the

12:28

Jubilee, since Mummy's death, I see you

12:30

as liberated. Confident.

12:35

You say that Charles is in his prime, well,

12:38

I see you in yours. What

12:42

was the wedding like to film? Because imagine

12:44

the idea of looks

12:46

of extras in a happy environment, you know,

12:48

as well, and kind of a celebration

12:51

in that way, sort of thing. Well,

12:53

funnily enough, I mean, the episode

12:55

is so epic by nature, the

12:57

way it's written, that we didn't

12:59

actually need a massive

13:02

kind of a wedding ceremony. So

13:04

we show the audience, look,

13:07

they got married, you see them there, you

13:09

see the Queen watching them and etc, etc. But

13:12

it's not a big event, as we've seen

13:14

before on the crown. Well, it's always

13:17

that thing that Peter's always said that everything

13:19

always has to come back to the Queen. Yes.

13:22

And, you know, even around Charles and Camilla's

13:24

wedding, it's about her moment, it's about the

13:26

speech and what she's going to say, what

13:28

she's not going to say. What

13:31

were the conversations, Stephen, about how to

13:33

show that part of it and

13:36

what you kind of both wanted to tell? I

13:38

don't think we discussed specific

13:40

ways of framing

13:43

in Melda, but I think

13:45

naturally we thought that we should be more

13:48

with her. I mean,

13:50

even like going almost like going back to

13:52

seasons one and two sort of style where

13:55

you are physically close to the

13:57

actor. So instead of laying down,

14:00

up or maybe what I mean

14:02

is moving the camera away from

14:04

the actor and using longer lenses

14:06

to achieve your mid shots and

14:08

close-ups you actually move the camera

14:10

closer to the actors and you

14:12

shoot your close-up so your tight

14:14

coverage on 40 mils

14:16

or 50 mils so you do feel

14:19

almost like a physical connection with your

14:21

actor you know we kind of go

14:23

back to the the old

14:26

institution you know the crown and the

14:28

Queen yeah there's a little bit of

14:30

a conflict internal conflict

14:32

yeah but we should somehow back

14:35

to the last is more

14:39

philosophy I suppose one

14:41

has to start these things with

14:43

an introduction for those of you who don't

14:45

know me I am the mother of the groom so

14:51

how was the crown for you looking back

14:53

on it well literally

14:56

changed my life and my career

14:58

so I did the first two

15:01

seasons as kind of a

15:03

guest GOP so they used to give

15:05

me a work permit accommodation

15:07

tickets etc so you

15:10

come as a little literally as

15:12

a guest then between seasons two

15:14

and three when I committed

15:16

to season three I managed

15:18

to change my status to a more

15:20

permanent one I moved to the UK

15:23

we're all here now me my partner

15:25

my kids my kids worked

15:27

on the crown now season six both of

15:29

my kids no way so one is on

15:32

the art department the other one is on

15:34

the camera department so

15:36

it really it really changed

15:38

it really changed everything I

15:41

I started on the crown it was May

15:43

2015 and I we wrapped on the 25th

15:46

of April 2023

15:52

so eight years of my life Wow

15:55

never gonna forget or it

15:58

really is a special special

16:02

child for me, a special

16:04

baby. And

16:12

now, if there's one character

16:14

who's really turned it around, it's

16:16

Camilla. From the

16:18

target of hate to a historic royal

16:20

bride, let's hear from the

16:22

Crown's own Camilla, Olivia Williams. Olivia,

16:25

it's great to have you back to talk about the

16:27

final season of The Crown. How does it feel that

16:30

it's done? Playing

16:34

Camilla is quite like being Camilla in that you weren't

16:36

invited to any of the big family

16:38

occasions. So, The Crown

16:40

for me was occasionally being driven

16:43

to a muddy field somewhere in Gloucestershire and

16:46

talking on the phone for a bit. And I'm really

16:48

sad that's over. But

16:51

the last week just

16:54

was surreal, you know, just this

16:56

past week, which culminated in the wrap

16:58

party on Saturday at the Natural History

17:01

Museum, and then sitting

17:03

here with you after marrying

17:05

Dominic West 11 or 12 times

17:08

in three different locations, all of which were

17:10

incredibly beautiful and moving for me. It

17:13

was surreal and beautiful. And I was

17:15

there for the knees up party and

17:18

fell in the main

17:20

street of Rochester Old Town. And

17:22

I just felt like a fraud because

17:24

there were people who worked day and

17:26

night for 10 years, handstitching

17:30

clothing and adjusting lights on the

17:32

likes of me. And I

17:35

just turned up for the party, really. But it was magical.

17:39

Camilla bookends the season with parties, to

17:42

be honest, which is lovely. We'll

17:44

get to the end party in a

17:46

second. But in episode one, it's celebrating

17:49

Camilla's 50th birthday, a big

17:51

moment for Charles, and it's a real

17:53

drive for him to have the Queen

17:55

there and have her blessing. Is

17:58

that important to Camilla, The Crown of Cale? The

18:01

way I played it was what

18:03

Peter wrote, which I feel has

18:05

been borne out by what we

18:07

see and know of her, was

18:09

that acceptance and

18:11

all the tassels

18:14

attached to office were never what she

18:16

was interested in. But I think

18:18

she knew it meant a lot to him and watching

18:20

him be hurt

18:22

like that was painful for her. Do

18:25

you think that's also part of the reason then

18:27

why, because at the end of season

18:30

five, we see her kind of

18:32

agree to the idea of

18:34

almost rehabilitate her public image in a way

18:36

and go, yeah, let's do it. And

18:39

so that's kind of as much for him as

18:41

it is for them. I think

18:44

she knows that it's

18:46

important to be

18:48

professional about this, if this is going to be

18:50

her life. And there is a

18:52

moment, I mean, you sort of have it as an

18:54

actor as well, where you go, this isn't the school

18:56

play anymore, that you have to turn

18:59

into a pro and behave professionally and have

19:02

a stylist and get your makeup done. And

19:05

I thought they got a stylist on me today,

19:07

because last year I did my interview in a

19:10

denim onesie and I thought, maybe they thought I

19:12

needed a bit of help. And

19:14

I feel like Camilla just that too. We're

19:16

related in that way, that the

19:18

Wellies and what she

19:20

wore for mucking out the stables

19:22

really wasn't suitable for her new

19:24

public role. So she turned pro,

19:26

I think, in this season. How

19:29

are you? Me? I'm all

19:32

right. My

19:34

sister persuaded me to get a fake tan, so now

19:36

I smell like the dog's blanket. Are

19:44

you having any last minute doubts? Not

19:47

me. I'm

19:49

in. For

19:53

all of it. For whatever

19:55

being married to you turns out to be. The

19:58

importance of Camilla. even not

20:00

in, you know, in the

20:03

end of the line, which is, you know, is that

20:05

kind of journey that we've had with

20:07

the character with her and Charles, we

20:09

see her at the start of the season and

20:11

then she almost kind of reverts back to being

20:14

that support network on the other end of the

20:16

line after the death of Diana. And I'm so

20:18

interested to find out for you as an actor,

20:21

how you approach that. In

20:24

my life, I am

20:26

apart from my husband and

20:28

children quite a lot away to work

20:30

and or he's away

20:32

and you learn

20:34

to pick

20:36

up the cues of what's going on,

20:39

what's behind the hi, how are you? No,

20:41

everything's great. Yeah, I can't really talk now.

20:45

And to hear, OK, that means the

20:47

wheels are falling off, you know, the kids,

20:49

you know, both of them are sick and

20:51

there's no one to help and there's no

20:53

cow poll in the house. And

20:55

I think she's clearly very

20:57

intuitive about what Charles needs.

21:00

And also she had that benefit of distance. She

21:02

could just, particularly with

21:05

the boys and the way we're

21:07

playing it, she is a

21:09

mother and has raised children and can

21:11

put the family perspective before

21:13

the public. And whatever crazy

21:15

stuff must have been going on

21:18

in the various palaces, you know,

21:20

practical advice, you know, sort of

21:22

times a great healer. These things

21:25

will they will happen. Yeah, they

21:27

couldn't get married and be

21:29

together publicly. So soon after

21:31

you just had to have a respectful

21:34

distance. But she had the sort of

21:36

circumspection to say it'll happen. We

21:39

just have to give it time and

21:42

space. And then we do,

21:45

you know, episode 10, you

21:47

have the wedding. What was

21:49

that? What was prepped? You know, in terms of

21:51

something like that, this was her proper

21:54

first public facing

21:57

outing, really, wasn't it? that,

22:01

you know, there for you to watch and

22:03

to see how much did you dive

22:06

into that? Because you've got, you've got the

22:08

scripts, you've got, you know, amazing production, hair

22:10

and makeup and costumes and stuff, but

22:12

finding your place in between those two.

22:15

Well, I, the bits of research I,

22:18

I did. First of all, we talked last

22:20

season about this sort of 10 mile

22:23

stare that Camilla had

22:25

that she just seemed so troubled. She,

22:28

in pictures, you see of her quite often, she's

22:30

sort of her eyes are downcast and

22:33

she's just looking with this kind of

22:35

clearly a brain

22:37

that's overloaded with troubles. And

22:39

then you see these pictures on the steps of the

22:43

various places she got married

22:46

and she's just smiling and they're

22:48

happy. And I

22:50

think there is a huge amount of relief

22:52

in there, but just relief is done. And

22:58

for you, what was that idea of reenacting

23:01

something that we all saw?

23:04

This was a proper public

23:06

facing. Did you, did you

23:09

kind of forget about that in a way and just

23:11

go by the script and give it

23:14

to me? I got married above

23:16

Bella pasta on Shroffsbury Avenue on

23:18

a Sunday afternoon. Amazing. And

23:21

in this, I got married in

23:23

King's College, Cambridge, York Minster and

23:26

the Rochester Guildhall. So, you know,

23:28

I didn't have to do any

23:30

planning. There was the Worcester

23:33

Cathedral Choir, the London

23:35

Chamber Orchestra. Every time I moved,

23:38

they started playing Handel's water music. It was

23:41

like a dream come true. It was

23:43

a wedding I never had with all

23:45

due respect to my lovely husband and

23:47

my joyful wedding above Bella pasta on

23:49

Shroffsbury Avenue. Other pasta restaurants are available.

23:51

It was lovely, but it was also

23:53

lovely to marry Dominic West about 20

23:55

times in these amazing... I went back to,

23:58

I was at university in Cambridge. If

24:00

you picture the 18 year old arriving

24:02

with a couple of A-levels and a

24:04

trunk full of hob-knobs,

24:07

going back there dressed as the Queen with

24:10

my two nephews as extras,

24:12

you know, in morning suits,

24:15

it was the most surreal.

24:17

I'm very happy. And everyone was just

24:19

on such a high. It was

24:21

beautiful. It was really fun and illegal

24:24

amounts of fun. Yeah. I

24:26

just had a great time. What was your reaction when you first read

24:28

the script? I couldn't wait. Yes.

24:31

You were one of the absolute joys. And I know

24:33

that I'm sort of following

24:35

what I ought to say, but I ought to say

24:37

it because it's true. What a

24:40

privilege to stand in a room with

24:42

some of the most highly skilled craft

24:44

people in the world,

24:47

fitting a dress to my shape. I

24:49

mean, to my shape with a couple of, I wear

24:53

these sort of Camilla boobs, which I don't

24:55

have boobs, but Camilla does. And

24:57

so they give me these fabulous boots to put

24:59

on and then they fit a dress

25:01

to me. And

25:04

then they watch me walk around the room and go, no, no, we need

25:06

to adjust that because when you walk, it

25:08

does that in these

25:10

beautiful fabrics. And they had

25:12

a feather expert, you know,

25:14

like Mr. Feather came in

25:16

to do my feathers. Real name. Yeah.

25:19

And it was like, it's astonishing. I

25:22

just stand there going, I'm so lucky.

25:25

It's like the greatest

25:27

couture designers of all

25:29

time are working on me for

25:32

this costume, for this show. So I

25:34

thank the crown for that if nothing

25:36

else. With

25:39

the wedding, did you and Dominic kind of, did

25:41

you talk much ahead of the kind

25:43

of filming of that or were you

25:45

just in it and kind

25:47

of living it? Or did you talk much

25:50

about what it meant to

25:52

the characters, you know, what this

25:54

kind of weird kind of crazy circus was

25:56

around them finding the right place to be

25:58

able to actually, I

26:02

mean, Stephen, we

26:04

have to talk about him because that, you

26:06

know, whatever we thought or whatever we said,

26:10

he comes up to you in the morning, will

26:12

hold your arm and whisper something

26:14

in your ear. And

26:17

it's just, oh, that, you know, you go, okay, now,

26:19

and that's what I'm doing. That's how to

26:21

do it. That's what I have to do. And

26:25

I did, at one point, go

26:28

to the guy, play Rowan Williams again. Has Stephen

26:30

just held your arm and whispered this in your

26:32

ear? Because I thought, maybe you're saying that to

26:34

everybody. But he came up to me and said, in

26:37

New York, Minster, with all the choir and the orchestra, he

26:40

said, today is all about you.

26:44

I was like, I bet you

26:46

said that to every actor. But he hadn't.

26:50

And yeah, I think he

26:52

knew that for Camilla, that would almost be

26:54

a painful thing because she doesn't like being the center

26:57

for tension. And so it was

26:59

just such a clever note, because

27:01

she is constantly giving

27:03

up the limelight to

27:05

others around her. And I think she

27:08

might actually find that quite uncomfortable. The

27:11

other thing that we really had to play was the

27:14

jeopardy of what the Queen

27:16

was going to say in her speech. And

27:19

there had to be a nervousness about

27:21

that. And I think for Camilla, it's

27:23

still the jeopardy of, is there going

27:26

to be acceptance? And there is, which

27:28

was a beautiful moment. We were laughing

27:31

with Imelda saying that, you know, that

27:33

last speech of hers was really sort of Imelda,

27:36

live at the Apollo. She

27:38

stood up in front of

27:40

this 500 extras

27:43

and delivered that speech with

27:45

every nuance, every time, all

27:48

day from eight in the morning until

27:50

seven at night. And yeah, she needs

27:52

to do stand up, really. She was

27:55

brilliant. In other news.

28:00

family wording in the Windsor area, which

28:03

the police are keeping their eyes

28:05

on. Chief Constable Darren Degg

28:07

said he was hoping that displays of

28:10

excessive exuberance would be kept to a

28:12

minimum. You've

28:16

enjoyed playing this character? So much, so

28:18

much. She's a gift

28:20

that keeps on giving Camilla, she really is,

28:22

because I think she really

28:25

started off in such a dark

28:27

place and has kept her counsel

28:30

and kept her head when all about

28:32

her losing theirs. And

28:34

yeah, she's an example to us

28:36

all. A word

28:39

of thanks to Camilla. It

28:42

can't have been easy for you

28:44

either over the years, but your

28:46

good cheer and warm

28:48

humanity work wonderfully in your favour.

28:52

Both as a strength

28:54

and stay for the Prince of Wales, and

29:00

as an addition to this family. Thank

29:03

you for your

29:05

patience and forbearance. So

29:10

now, will you all raise your glasses to

29:12

the young couple? Charles

29:16

and Camilla. Now,

29:23

as we see in the episode, navigating

29:25

Charles and Camilla's nut chills was complicated.

29:29

So here's head of research, Annie

29:31

Salzberger, along with researchers, Anna Carden

29:33

and Sophie Badman to tell us

29:35

all about it. Why

29:39

was it important to unpick this whole

29:41

Charles and Camilla wedding, you know,

29:43

in research and get it right

29:45

on screen? And why is

29:47

it such a big deal and a fitting

29:49

ending, do you think, to the crown for

29:51

this to be part of the last episode?

29:54

What I've found astonishing with what Peter and Stephen have

29:56

managed to do with 610 is, is

30:00

incredibly final. Like the last, we end in

30:02

2005, it feels like we're ending in 2023

30:06

or 2022 rather when she died. And

30:08

I don't want to spoil it if

30:10

you haven't watched it yet, but there are certain aspects

30:12

to the Queen's narrative here that really

30:15

make that time jump almost feel unnecessary.

30:17

You know, the story can really end in this moment.

30:19

And part of that too is we've just had our

30:21

King crowned and we have

30:24

our Queen Camilla, which everybody

30:26

said would never happen. So what's

30:29

so fascinating about this wedding in particular

30:32

is it is its constitutional implications, but

30:35

it's also the relationship, I think, with

30:37

monarchy and the public, the

30:39

thawing of the relationship between

30:42

Elizabeth and Charles, which has

30:44

never really been easy for

30:47

them. And what you

30:49

come to find when in doing this research that I

30:51

think something that I think initiated some of this was

30:53

a sense of mortality for Elizabeth.

30:55

What happens if you die? And whenever

30:59

they started really talking about 2003,

31:02

2004, and a bachelor king takes over

31:04

and his mistress walks behind him to

31:07

be crowned. You know, that alone, I

31:09

think jolted her a little bit into,

31:12

okay, we actually need to figure out how this is

31:14

going to work. Well, it's almost like you mentioned this

31:16

in a previous chat, Ani, which was

31:18

kind of when the

31:21

Queen mother died, it almost kind

31:23

of allowed the Queen to move

31:25

forward in a way to kind

31:27

of modernize, to not be held

31:29

back by those abstract constitutional ideals.

31:32

And I mean, Charles still has to

31:34

ask the Queen's permission to Marie

31:37

Camilla. Why does he need to do this?

31:40

That comes down to

31:42

the 1772 Royal Marriages Acts. So

31:45

it's a very kind of

31:47

by today's standards, the archaic

31:49

law, which was essentially put

31:51

into place to protect the

31:53

monarchy's line and making sure that

31:55

there could be some kind of control over sort

31:57

of elements marrying in and out of the monarchy.

32:00

So yeah, ever since 1772, senior

32:02

members of the Royal Family have to

32:04

have the Sufferin's permission before they

32:07

marry. Obviously, that's a bind

32:09

for Charles at a time when it

32:11

did take quite a long time for the Queen to come

32:13

round to the notion of Camilla, waiting on

32:15

the public to come round to the notion of

32:17

Camilla as Charles' future wife and

32:19

prospective potential at this point,

32:21

only potential Queen. But then

32:23

the Queen, it's not just a case of Charles

32:26

asking the Queen and the Queen can say yes

32:28

or no. She then has to speak to so

32:30

many people before giving permission. What

32:32

did you find out about that process and

32:34

what is that process? Well, good

32:36

question. What is that process? I mean, it'd be

32:38

handy if we had a constitution nicely written down,

32:41

wouldn't it? She

32:44

would then need to consult her prime minister

32:46

and only with the kind of consent

32:48

and advice of her government would she be

32:50

then able to formally permit the marriage and

32:53

extend her own permission to

32:55

Charles. That's something that, for

32:57

example, famously with the application of

32:59

Edward VIII when he wanted to marry Wallis Simpson. He

33:02

was king at that point, but he

33:04

came up against that precise constitutional dilemma.

33:06

The then prime minister, Stanley Baldwin, officially

33:10

did not give consent or government

33:12

approval for that marriage. And

33:15

so effectively forcing

33:18

his hand on application because

33:20

constitutionally, it would be

33:22

disastrous for the monarch to act

33:24

against the advice of their government. So

33:27

in that sense, it's essential for the Queen to have

33:30

the prime minister's government's permission, absolutely. And who

33:32

else? Anyone else? Well, I mean, if Anna

33:34

wants to talk a bit about the church

33:37

side of things. Yeah,

33:39

obviously, she's the head of state in the

33:41

monarch, but she's also the supreme governor of

33:43

the Church of England. The Church of England,

33:45

of course, being the church that was created

33:47

by Henry VIII initially to

33:50

help him break from Rome and allow

33:52

him to himself, a divorced man, to

33:54

marry a new woman. And

33:56

as supreme governor of the Church of England, the

33:58

Queen has know, a

34:00

religious figurehead role at the head of

34:03

Britain and therefore have to consult with

34:05

the Archbishop of Canterbury and see his

34:07

advice as to how to play it

34:09

essentially with the English King

34:12

community in Britain. And given there

34:14

had been such a scandal around Charles

34:16

and Camilla back in the day and

34:18

public love of Diana etc etc,

34:21

I think there was a worry that the upstanding Christians of

34:23

Britain would not feel comfortable necessarily with

34:26

a fully Christian in

34:28

church remarriage and so compromises

34:31

had to be reached. I've always

34:33

taken comfort in the knowledge that

34:35

God retaineth not his anger forever

34:38

because he delighteth in mercy. Whatever

34:42

short-term risk the marriage may present to

34:44

the integrity of the church, one

34:46

has to imagine it would do less

34:49

damage than if I were to die.

34:51

Well it is going to happen one

34:53

day and

34:56

my heir acceded to the throne while

35:00

living in sin. In terms

35:02

of the wedding itself, talk us through what they

35:04

actually had to do to become husband

35:06

and wife. Well one thing that Prince

35:09

Harry writes about in spare is that he

35:11

had a suspicion that it was his

35:14

mother Diana from the heavens

35:16

causing havoc with the organisation of the

35:18

wedding planning setback after setback

35:20

after setback. Firstly you had the fact

35:22

that the Royal Marriages Act of 1772

35:26

that Soph mentioned earlier which prevented a royal

35:28

from getting married in a civil ceremony but

35:30

in tandem with that you had the Archbishop

35:33

of Canterbury saying it has to

35:35

be a civil ceremony with a religious blessing afterwards.

35:37

He had this position of

35:39

terms that meant that essentially the

35:41

wedding was a theoretical impossibility. So in order

35:43

to get around that some people have said

35:46

that Tony Blair he used the 2000 Human

35:48

Rights Act which states that any man and

35:50

woman are free to marry and be happy

35:52

and have a family or something like that

35:55

as a legal work around. To say that

35:57

the 2000 Human Rights Act

35:59

overruled the Royal Marriages Act

36:01

in this specific regard and therefore Prince Charles

36:03

can get married in a civil ceremony. So

36:06

that was kind of an obstacle one. Yeah.

36:08

Then there was a timings issue where they

36:11

couldn't do the original date because the Pope

36:13

died and the Pope's funeral was then going

36:15

to be on the same day as

36:17

the wedding. So they had to do

36:19

a last-minute date change and then on the actual day,

36:22

I think things went fairly smoothly. Yeah,

36:24

although I'm kind of interesting psyched by royal

36:26

wedding standards. I mean, it was quite a

36:28

sort of unceremonious start

36:31

in that, you know, the 28 guests

36:33

for the Guildhall civil ceremony bits, obviously

36:35

a very private thing, which

36:37

wasn't televised, no one saw it. But, you

36:40

know, you have all the public outside waiting

36:42

and the arrival of William Harry, Tom Parker-Bould,

36:44

you know, Camilla's family, those guests, it was

36:46

on a coach, Windsorian coaches, I think it

36:48

was. And I mean, that was kind of

36:50

the first, I'd say, maybe even just visual

36:52

indicator that this was going to be a

36:55

royal wedding that had totally kind of loopy

36:57

different formulas to other royal weddings. In

37:01

terms of that kind of religious side of it, you

37:03

know, one of the reasons that they were given the

37:05

kind of thumbs up by

37:07

the Church of England was on

37:10

the agreement that they would tell

37:12

me what, because we see a little bit

37:14

of it within the episode

37:17

of when that religious ceremony

37:19

is happening. I

37:21

mean, they kind of have to

37:24

repent their sin, basically. Yeah. Well,

37:27

so this all came out of the fact that, you know,

37:29

previously in Church of England kind of canon law,

37:31

it was forbidden

37:33

for two divorcees to

37:36

marry if their former spouses were

37:39

still living. This all changed in 2002,

37:41

the kind of church parliament, which is

37:43

called the General Synod, passed

37:45

this change to the rule

37:47

so that you could remarry in a

37:49

church service at the discretion of a

37:51

particular vicar. But in

37:54

order to kind of mollify the more

37:56

conservative elements of the church community, there

37:58

were these kind of guidelines. issued

38:01

as to what they should use to measure whether this couple

38:03

can remarry. And there were sort of

38:05

seven rules or questions

38:08

they have to consider, a couple of which were

38:11

really problematic for Charles and Camilla.

38:13

One of them was, would this

38:15

marriage be tantamount to consecrating an

38:17

old infidelity, which clearly it

38:19

was. And then another one was

38:21

to do with the church's credibility as a witness

38:23

to marriage. And the question was, would this marriage

38:28

possibly cause any public scandal

38:31

or conflict? And the Archbishop

38:33

of Canterbury has to do really careful balancing

38:35

acts between kind of finding a

38:37

way of allowing this to happen, but keeping

38:39

that more conservative element within his own community

38:42

happy. And lots

38:44

of reports at the time indicated that the kind

38:46

of compromise that had been reached was that those

38:49

more conservative members wanted there to be some

38:51

kind of act of repentance,

38:53

like a public kind of admittance

38:55

of wrongdoing from the couple as

38:58

part of that ceremony. Do we

39:00

know what was said in that ceremony? Is

39:02

it public knowledge or? Yeah, I think we

39:04

have the prayer of penitence. It's pretty full

39:06

on, isn't it? It's

39:10

very full on. And they were kneeling.

39:12

They were kneeling. Yeah, they were kneeling. And

39:15

it's the general confession from the 1662 Book

39:19

of Common Prayer, which is the strongest

39:21

act of penitence that you can find.

39:23

I mean, the way in the show, it's almost

39:25

like one step away from like shame. Oh

39:27

yeah, exactly. Yeah,

39:31

where's the wets and stuff? It's kind

39:33

of one step away from that, because

39:35

even the way that Stephen Daldry shot

39:37

it and the script that's written, you

39:40

can see that there's an uncomfortableness

39:42

amongst quite a few

39:44

characters in those scenes of going,

39:46

what? I mean, I will just

39:48

say that it starts with, we

39:50

acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins

39:52

and wickedness. Bewail. Bewail. Who

39:54

uses that word? Well,

39:57

yeah. It's an old-school plan. And it

39:59

does. It requires... is the whole congregation

40:01

to then repeat the

40:03

general confession too, which I imagine someone would be

40:05

like, well, I have nothing to, you know, kill

40:07

the whale. I mean, listen, Charles could

40:12

have gotten married in Scotland like I

40:15

ended, where you can get remarried as

40:17

a divorced person in a church

40:19

and that's fine, but it wasn't a possibility. It

40:21

fundamentally wasn't because he's the future head of the

40:23

church. And so he had to

40:25

play ball. It's worth mentioning as well, when we

40:28

were looking into this, we found that ironically, the

40:30

reason that in the Church of England, it's

40:32

prohibited, as they will say, is to remarry

40:35

harks back to actually the 1950s and

40:37

Princess Margaret and Townsend scandal. The Archbishop

40:39

at the time put into

40:42

practice a canon law called

40:45

the Act of Convocation, 1957. I think

40:48

it had always been disapproved of in

40:50

the Church of England, but it had

40:53

not been written out in black and

40:55

white. And the scandal with Margaret and

40:57

Townsend led the Church to prohibit the

40:59

marriages. Charles and Camilla

41:01

are actually facing a legal precedent

41:03

that the set were his

41:06

own auntie, which is

41:08

not something that most of us can relate to,

41:10

but it's kind of incredible that they had such

41:12

a tough time getting around that. We also found

41:15

that the public by this point, I

41:17

think over 10% of marriages involved a

41:19

divorced person. So the public were getting more

41:21

comfortable with the reality of modern life and

41:23

divorces more accessible, more people were doing it.

41:26

So I think people were more sympathetic or

41:28

growing more sympathetic to the idea that you

41:30

can kind of love again and marry again.

41:35

Oh, I could talk to you all for hours about this.

41:38

Absolutely hours. But, Ani, we're

41:40

at the end. We're

41:42

at the end of the crime. You

41:44

have been, I mean, so central to

41:47

obviously the show of the crime, but for our

41:49

podcast as well, just in terms of how

41:52

we have, A, enjoyed

41:54

your company, but B, you've just given

41:57

us so much information. It's been

42:00

extraordinary. Can you

42:02

reflect, yet, on your

42:04

experience in terms of what you

42:06

might take away from this show and

42:08

what you've done for what, ten years? Ten

42:11

years, yeah. I started in

42:13

November 2013. I'm

42:16

immensely proud of

42:18

what we've made. I feel

42:21

utterly grateful for

42:23

having met the people I've gotten to

42:25

work with for these ten years, many of whom have been here

42:27

for ten years. The expertise

42:30

involved in this show and the

42:33

attention to detail is unmatched. And

42:35

I'm also just very proud that I got

42:37

to build a brilliant team of

42:40

brilliant researchers who I will be working with

42:42

and using for the rest of my life.

42:45

It's established a level of professionalism

42:47

in every department that

42:49

I just think is extraordinary. I

42:52

think it's also opened up

42:55

ways of using history

42:57

to look for the more

42:59

nuanced stories, the

43:01

way that we've approached the material and

43:04

worked together to try to find these

43:06

subtleties and stories. I've

43:08

never experienced that anywhere else, and it's

43:11

something I will take with me for the rest of my

43:13

life. Well,

43:19

as you know, Sleep Dere Sleep

43:21

is the final episode of The

43:23

Crown and the final

43:26

podcast episode too. So

43:28

of course, we have to close with a man

43:30

who started it all, writer and creator

43:33

Peter Morgan. The

43:35

real Queen Elizabeth II, whose remarkable life

43:37

is of course the inspiration behind the

43:39

series, passed away in September 2022.

43:41

If you, like me and millions

43:45

around the world, watched coverage of

43:47

her historic funeral, you may

43:49

have noticed there are echoes of that day

43:52

in this final episode of The Crown, one

43:55

piece of traditional bagpipe music

43:57

in particular featuring heavily. Sleep,

44:00

Dee Dee sleep. So

44:03

when I sat down with Peter at his home

44:05

for one last time, I wanted to

44:07

find out about paying homage to Queen

44:09

Elizabeth and taking inspiration

44:12

from her funeral when creating the

44:14

season finale. I

44:16

remember sitting at home watching the funeral. I

44:19

was on my own actually. There were so

44:21

many standout things that happened in the funeral,

44:23

but for me personally the standout thing was

44:25

the Piper. And it was

44:27

so magical the way it was done and

44:30

so instantly moving and

44:34

profoundly moving. And

44:37

it's also something that I know it was

44:39

a choice that she made. If

44:42

there was a desert on a disk moment, that would

44:44

have been it. And so I thought, okay, let's incorporate

44:47

that. And that's entirely imagined.

44:51

We don't know that that's what happened. I

44:54

can't imagine a world in which she

44:56

really did ask Piper to play indoors and

45:00

come up with some greatest lament ick. I

45:03

wrote that scene where she talked to the Piper in

45:05

about three minutes. And those

45:07

sorts of scenes are when you write a

45:09

scene so quickly. I don't think we ever changed a word

45:12

of it. Sometimes you just write a scene, you look at

45:14

it, go, okay, I'll come back to that later and

45:16

do it properly. Let me just put that

45:18

down as a placeholder. I can see

45:20

what that's going to do, but it's four o'clock now. I don't want to

45:23

do any more of my head. And

45:25

somehow we never looked at it and thought we have to

45:27

change that. It went from

45:29

being a placeholder to being shot. And

45:32

to me, it's the most I think it's

45:34

my favorite scene in the episodes. It might

45:36

be my favorite scene in the season. That's

45:40

the moment that touched me the most. And

45:42

of course, Stephen Daugherty being the wizard

45:45

that he is, he

45:48

promptly overcooked it with the girl bursting into the

45:50

song. And it's just fantastic.

45:54

It's so good. Why did not think of

45:56

that? That was not written. Was that Daugherty?

45:58

That was Daugherty, completely Daugherty. of Mr.

46:00

Dole Dre. Why was it important

46:03

to get him back to this final episode? Oh,

46:06

because, you know, I would have liked him

46:08

to have been there for every episode, but

46:10

he, you know, that's not possible. And it's

46:14

perfect that he came back for

46:16

the final episode. And it

46:21

meant a lot to me personally, but

46:23

it's also, you know, it returns the

46:25

show to the original voices that started

46:27

it, you know, as a play. And

46:31

that journey started in 2012. No, before that, 2011,

46:36

you know, and so it's only writing

46:39

proper. And then it's perfect. And he did a

46:41

beautiful job. And

47:09

it's just this, this wonderful thing

47:11

of bringing back all

47:14

the queens. You're kind of

47:16

like, so

47:19

clever of her inner

47:22

thought process, you know, of the kind of wranglings

47:24

that she's going through of should I, shouldn't I,

47:26

what are you thinking? You know, and the different

47:28

sides to her, you know, the different versions

47:31

of her, they've had to go

47:33

through different things. Imelda's performance

47:35

is just, it's so

47:38

brilliant and so nuanced in this

47:40

particular episode. And, you know, when Olivia comes

47:42

back and she gives him one opinion and then

47:44

clears back and you're like, Oh my God, this is, this

47:48

is everything I want. Either more. Talk

47:51

to me a little bit about kind

47:53

of writing that. Well, that was always

47:55

part of it. I think. Did they all

47:57

have to sign up for that? and

48:00

approached them all some time ago. So I

48:02

said I've got this idea for how to do the

48:05

final episode and that it's to bring all of you

48:07

together. And initially

48:09

my first draft of it was

48:11

that it was the three of them. And

48:15

the Queen, the old Queen, Imelda was

48:18

flanked on either side. And I

48:20

think it might have been Daldry who told me

48:22

to break it up into two scenes. It

48:25

was always, always, always, that

48:27

was what the episode was always going to

48:29

be. Claire Foy came back to do a

48:31

brief cameo in another season. I

48:34

said to her, if I, Olivia,

48:37

I rang up and I just rang her up and I

48:39

said, look, I'm thinking, are you going to give me an

48:41

extra scene? I didn't even finish

48:44

the sentence. I

48:47

was just thinking, oh, you're going to write me a scene?

48:50

Yeah. And then Claire

48:52

would came in and

48:55

so I went and saw her personally. She

48:57

was just as excited. And so I

48:59

thought, right, okay, I've got the, I

49:02

know they'll come if I, yeah, so

49:05

I'll write it now. A big part of the draw

49:07

for both Claire and Olivia

49:09

was the idea of doing a

49:12

scene with Imelda. They're both such

49:14

admirers of hers. And I

49:16

didn't need to do much persuading. You know, it

49:18

was their respect for Imelda that

49:21

got them to say, God, yes. You're

49:24

almost 80 years old. So everyone

49:26

keeps reminding me. Well, that's only 20 years

49:28

past the return of age four women. No

49:31

need to go on. That's what I'm saying. No

49:34

need to go on. The other

49:36

thing that was always going to be in the

49:38

case was, I thought, well, once I knew that

49:40

Olivia and Claire were both coming back, I thought,

49:42

well, the scene can't be, you know, repetitious.

49:45

It has to be distinctive.

49:47

And then I thought, well, of

49:50

the two, Olivia's going to be the one

49:52

causing the trouble. Provoking mischief.

49:54

It would be Olivia. And then the one

49:56

who would be saying, how can you be

49:58

thinking such a stupid thing? thing would

50:00

be, you know, Claire would be more

50:03

because she was closer as the younger Queen, she was

50:06

closer to the moment where she'd made the oath. And

50:09

so she still had the 50s, the

50:11

1950s connection to, you know,

50:14

and also just from another era, from that

50:16

era. This system

50:19

is a dreadful thing to inflict upon people. It's

50:22

not natural. It's not

50:24

fair. It's

50:27

not kind. But

50:29

you seem to thrive in it. And

50:33

more importantly, it seems to

50:35

thrive under you. So

50:39

shouldn't you stay for every single day

50:41

that you can? But

50:48

what about the life I put aside? The

50:53

want that I put aside when I became Queen. What

51:03

sort of question is that? For

51:06

years now, there has been just one

51:08

Elizabeth. Queen

51:12

Elizabeth. If

51:16

you weren't looking for Elizabeth Windsor, you

51:19

wouldn't find her. That

51:23

very final piece as well, which

51:25

also has the teenage Queen from that

51:27

VED section, which is brilliant. That's

51:30

a lovely dawdry touch. I didn't know why that. I

51:32

didn't think of that one. That was

51:35

a beautiful touch by the director, Stephen Daugherty,

51:37

giving us the loot at the end. Absolutely

51:39

beautiful. Those

51:42

are always the best bits for me. The

51:44

best bits are when something makes the final cut that I didn't write.

51:48

I'm so grateful for those bits because there

51:50

has to be so much more than your

51:52

own imagination. It's just not enough. Were

51:55

you there when all Queens were filming? I

51:58

was there. I was there for that. And

52:00

I was certainly there for the final

52:02

scene between Imelda and Jonathan Price. Another

52:04

great scene. Yeah. This is

52:07

all kind of wordly that, you know, all

52:09

this is going on, but then behind all

52:11

that, or running alongside all that, you have

52:13

the wedding, you know,

52:15

Charles and Camilla, which has...

52:19

Which they've waited over 30 years for. Yeah.

52:23

Which very, you know, in its own way is

52:25

one of the great romances. You know, the arc

52:27

of the final episode was always going to be

52:29

Charles is about to get married. The Queen

52:31

asks herself, should she or shouldn't she step down? Given

52:34

that he is now settled, he

52:37

is now, you know, in his, I

52:39

forget, mid to late fifties, he's

52:43

in his prime. He's the perfect

52:45

age to still have his own

52:47

Corellian age. Now's the

52:49

time. That debate. And that felt

52:51

like a good final episode. But

52:54

it then grew when I

52:56

suddenly thought, well, we have to incorporate

52:58

the funeral somehow, or the death. And

53:01

since we can't show the death, because it's

53:03

18 years before she dies, well, actually, it

53:06

was an idea that Stephen Daudry came along with, which

53:08

is, what about the funeral? Can

53:11

she be planning the funeral? And then we

53:13

immediately started researching and found that it was

53:15

20 years before. The reason we know that

53:18

is because the consultant on the crown, Major

53:20

David, he's a herald. And

53:23

so he was in the funeral

53:25

planning committee. So he could, he

53:27

absolutely pinpointed that it was 20

53:29

years before she died. They started

53:32

the first planning sessions. But this

53:34

is the funeral of what we expect to be the longest serving

53:36

monarch in history. People

53:38

will want to celebrate your reign and mark the

53:40

end of an era, not just here, but all

53:42

around the world. So I'd

53:44

like to start with the logistical

53:46

contingencies depending upon where the,

53:49

forgive me, ma'am, the death

53:51

actually occurs. If it's a broad

53:54

man or here in the United Kingdom. I

53:57

shall do my best to keep it local. One

54:00

thing as well that you touched on in

54:02

this last episode is a kind

54:05

of nod towards the Hardy

54:07

and William relationship and

54:09

where there seems to be a, I

54:13

don't know how, you know, number one and number two, that

54:15

whole thing and one's

54:17

opinion is taken more

54:20

seriously or considered more than the other sort

54:22

of thing. Just wanted to talk about incorporating

54:25

that in and... Again, this

54:27

is one of those, it was one of those opportunities to

54:29

have the two brothers watching

54:32

them get on and be close and

54:34

be indispensable to one another is just

54:37

incredibly touching given what's

54:39

happened. And yet at the same

54:41

time being able to identify

54:43

or hint at some

54:46

of the fault lines that you suspect might or some

54:48

of the little cracks that will turn into fault lines.

54:51

I enjoyed writing them. Did you? Yeah, I did.

54:55

I really loved those two actors. If

54:57

she did, you know what else it would mean? It

54:59

would be you next. That would

55:02

make you William the... Good. Better

55:04

than second. He was assassinated by

55:06

his brother. Who

55:09

would you believe was also called

55:11

Prince Harry? He had William

55:13

killed in a shooting accident and galloped off

55:15

to Winchester to claim the phone for himself.

55:20

Don't worry mate, he wouldn't do that to you. Is

55:24

it something you're most proud of on the

55:27

show? I think... Well,

55:30

I think two things. I think the sheer

55:32

harmony of it. I

55:34

do really think that that is an

55:36

extraordinary... Given the challenges, given how much

55:38

fatigue there is and

55:41

how passionate everybody is

55:43

and given human beings, we're complicated

55:45

creatures. Human beings are tricky. So

55:48

I think the biggest achievement is

55:50

this many human beings working together

55:52

creatively and harmoniously and I

55:54

think the emotional temperature of the show

55:57

and the generosity of the collaboration. dignity

56:00

of the show in the way that everybody on

56:02

it behaves. You know, that's the thing I'm most

56:05

proud of. And on a personal note,

56:07

writers are generally considered to be people

56:10

who can only make sense of the

56:12

world through reimagining it or recreating it

56:14

with their imaginations and their pens. And

56:18

we're in an age now where writers

56:21

are being asked to

56:23

step up and be more responsible

56:26

and reliable. And the fact that

56:28

we, again, I suppose the

56:31

things I'm most proud of are the very

56:33

human hurdles you have to overcome

56:35

to actually make something like this. It's really

56:38

keeping it at a high level or at

56:40

least the best level that you can do

56:42

within your, you know, if it drops, it's

56:44

only because I wasn't good enough. It

56:46

wasn't for lack of trying. And

56:49

so being able to show up and do that

56:51

and not drop the ball or not let people

56:53

down or not run away, I suppose,

56:57

when you want to. And in the course

56:59

of a commitment that long, you do want to. I

57:02

just wanted to briefly mention your rusty cake

57:05

that you received as well. One

57:07

of the last days of shooting,

57:09

which was in the shape of

57:12

a typewriter, but had a specific

57:16

collection of less numbers on the

57:18

typewriter, let's say 701 or something

57:20

like that. Oh, yeah. Which

57:24

was starting the new season. That will

57:26

never exist. They also accompanied it with

57:28

a picture, photograph that was taken of

57:31

me as I was writing the

57:35

first episode in

57:37

which I looked so much younger. We're

57:44

a dying breed, you and I. Oh,

57:47

I'm sure everyone will carry on pretending

57:49

all is well. But

57:52

the party's over. The

57:56

good news is that

57:58

while Rome burns. and the

58:00

temple falls, we

58:03

will sleep, deary

58:06

sleep. Oh, you

58:09

looked. Yes. The

58:13

Piper's Lament. Your

58:17

sole musical choice

58:19

is very you. And

58:22

your coffin being driven in an old Land

58:24

Rover is very you. Oh, you

58:27

looked. I did. Well,

58:32

I'll leave you to it. Say

58:38

one for me. Well,

58:49

that's a wrap. But before we go, I just

58:51

wanted to say a few words about

58:53

the experience of making this podcast. First

58:56

up, there is a phenomenal team behind

58:58

the scenes who've done the most brilliant

59:00

job of producing and editing everything that

59:02

you hear. So thank you team for

59:05

your wonderful work. It's just been

59:07

a joy to work with you. Now, we

59:09

began this podcast for season three, and

59:11

it's been the most fascinating,

59:14

insightful and hugely

59:16

enjoyable journey. We've

59:19

done around 120 interviews which

59:21

have allowed us to talk to the

59:23

most talented storytellers about the 40 episodes

59:27

that we've covered. For me,

59:29

having such a detailed insight into

59:31

the creation of this landmark show

59:33

really feels like a gift. I've

59:35

learned so much. Almost

59:38

feels like I've had some kind

59:40

of qualification in top class production.

59:42

It's just been wonderful. Some

59:45

of the most memorable moments have included

59:47

being invited to L Street to watch

59:49

filming, interviewing the cast on some of

59:51

the most beautiful detailed

59:53

sets, having the Royal

59:55

Jet as my hair and makeup room,

59:58

and being on location in... and

1:00:00

cathedrals and country houses where Olivia

1:00:02

Colman introduced me to the plug-in

1:00:05

hot water bottle, a revelation.

1:00:08

But what I'm particularly proud of with

1:00:10

this podcast is that we've been able

1:00:13

to shine a spotlight on those

1:00:15

immensely talented craft people, all

1:00:17

those departments and creatives

1:00:20

behind the scenes that make the

1:00:22

show what it is. The detail

1:00:24

that goes into the storytelling in

1:00:26

this show is extraordinary. I

1:00:28

particularly loved hanging out with Sid

1:00:30

and Amy Roberts who were responsible

1:00:33

for the costumes from season three.

1:00:35

I loved being in their company and any time

1:00:37

we were lucky to be at Elstree, their

1:00:39

studio was my first port of call

1:00:42

to hang out and have a cup of tea.

1:00:44

We were welcomed with open arms by

1:00:46

everyone, Netflix, Left Bank and the Crown

1:00:48

Crew. So thank you so much for

1:00:50

making us feel so welcome.

1:00:53

And special thanks to

1:00:55

Peter Morgan for inviting us

1:00:57

to his home on numerous occasions to

1:01:00

pick his brain about creating the show.

1:01:02

I'm going to

1:01:04

miss talking to these exceptionally talented

1:01:06

people about The Crown. I

1:01:08

hope you've enjoyed listening as much

1:01:10

as I've enjoyed chatting. Until

1:01:13

next time, thank you so much for

1:01:15

listening and I really do hope

1:01:17

there is a next time. So

1:01:20

it's goodbye from The Crown, the official

1:01:23

class for now. I'm

1:01:26

Edith Bowman. I'd like to give

1:01:28

special thanks to my guests on

1:01:30

this episode, Adriana Goldman, Olivia Williams,

1:01:33

Annie Salzberger, Anna Cardin,

1:01:36

Sophie Badman and Peter

1:01:38

Morgan. The Crown, the

1:01:40

official class is produced by Netflix

1:01:43

and Sony Music Entertainment in association

1:01:45

with Left Bank Pictures. The

1:01:47

executive producers for Netflix are Ray

1:01:49

Vota, Charlotte Miller and Hannah

1:01:51

Smith. Production from Left

1:01:54

Bank Pictures by Georgina Brown with

1:01:56

special thanks to Annie Salzberger, Annaba

1:01:58

sister, Uno Biern. I'm Suzanne

1:02:01

Markey. The executive producer is

1:02:03

Simon Poole. The senior producer is

1:02:05

Zoe Edwards. The assistant

1:02:07

producer is Rebecca Adams. Additional

1:02:09

production from Jennifer Mystery, Lily

1:02:12

Hamblee, Orton Mohillay, Chica

1:02:14

Ayres, Matthias Torres-Sole and

1:02:16

Ed Gill. The sound

1:02:18

engineer is Gulliver Lawrence

1:02:20

Tickel. Music, Wahan

1:02:22

Zimmer and Martin Sill.