0:06

You're listening to the cycling podcast,

0:08

Femina. Well,

0:18

hello and happy new year. Is it too

0:20

late to say happy new year? I believe

0:22

it's already 25th of January,

0:24

but it's probably a little bit late.

0:26

But this is the first cycling podcast

0:28

feminine we've had in the new year.

0:30

So, you know, I have every right

0:32

to say it. And joining me today

0:35

is Denny Gray of the British Continental.

0:37

Are you celebrating Burns Night, Denny? I've

0:39

missed out on that. My neighbours had an

0:41

amazing array of whiskeys on Burns Night, but

0:44

I completely missed out. So yeah, nothing Burns

0:46

Night related for me, unfortunately. Oh, do you

0:49

know what? Actually, though, my mum claims,

0:51

I was only claimed in the last couple of

0:54

years that we are distantly related to Rabi Burns.

0:56

Wow. But literally, she has never said that before,

0:58

until the last couple of years.

1:00

So it's questionable. Joining us today,

1:02

special guest on the pod is

1:06

cycling commentator, presenter and

1:08

journalist. Sorry, Rebecca,

1:11

I gave you the pill builder.

1:13

Rebecca Charlton. Thank you so much.

1:15

I did actually something

1:18

there, which actually I've seen you do before, where

1:20

you're giving someone a really big intro and then

1:22

you're about to mess up their name, which I

1:24

remember when you were introducing Sophie Hurcombe of Cycling

1:26

News and you were a big build up and

1:28

then you said, Sophie Hurcombe. So

1:31

it never made the cut. To

1:33

add context to that, I've been

1:35

a friend and colleague of Sophie

1:38

Hurcombe for about a decade. So yeah,

1:40

I don't know how it happened. I

1:42

was just saying the words that I

1:45

almost did you rehearse my name just

1:47

to make sure. In my brain. Well,

1:49

I do edit your showreel, don't I?

1:51

Sometimes, Rebecca. So I know you've got

1:53

to say cycling presenter, commentator and journalist,

1:56

but nice to be all together. And

1:58

I was going to say it's the first. how

2:00

we've been together but it's actually not is

2:02

it because only a few weeks ago we

2:05

were all in a McDonald's on once

2:07

with rounds about at about four in

2:09

the morning so we were. So the

2:11

listeners benefit we should explain is Becca and

2:13

I are sharing a mic and she shoved

2:15

the mic in my direction at that point

2:18

but yeah there was a bit of a soiree of cycling

2:20

journalists wasn't there before Christmas and we ended up in a

2:22

karaoke bar and then a McDonald's I don't know if there's

2:24

anything more we want to add about that. Well I was

2:27

going to say I mean honestly Denny you were

2:29

a singer songwriter weren't you and so I was

2:31

expecting a lot of the karaoke and I've given

2:33

a bombshell to Becca and probably the whole board

2:35

you did not know this.

2:38

So we're expecting big things with Denny,

2:40

Denny chooses Parklife waiting his turn

2:42

waiting seeing it go up and up in the

2:44

queue as everyone else takes their steps and

2:47

then another cycling journalist not going to

2:49

be named steals the mic absolutely

2:52

destroys the song with yelling and

2:54

Denny's just standing in the corner

2:56

they're looking so absurd that is time

2:59

to shine singing blur was totally ripped

3:01

away tell you what I've never felt so loved

3:03

at that point Rose because actually I think you looked a

3:06

devastating you were so annoyed.

3:08

Well the best one, everyone else was

3:10

like very... Everyone else was entertained. Everyone

3:13

else was loving it so I was kind of

3:15

like on your side Denny so I was looking

3:17

cross as well. I have to

3:19

interject at this point because you two don't

3:21

know this big reveal I've got this moment

3:23

on camera I videoed the

3:26

look between the two of you and then I

3:28

have you on camera Rose asking

3:30

me to stop recording you putting

3:32

the camera in your phone but

3:34

yeah it's uh it's saved on my

3:36

phone forever more and we are actually only

3:38

just just around the corner from that very

3:40

McDonald's aren't we we're just in that Alma

3:43

in Wandsworth and they very off the old

3:45

old york road they very kindly turn the music off

3:48

in this little section to let us record

3:50

the pod so we do need to get on

3:52

with doing that but I should say I know

3:54

lots of people have been asking about Aula and

3:56

where she is Aula is just a very busy

3:58

woman she'll be back on in no time.

4:00

She assures me that she's going to try and be

4:03

back on next month, which would be great to hear

4:05

from her again. Of course, you know, we will miss

4:07

having her. And Lizzie banks also

4:09

for personal reasons, Lizzie has had to

4:11

step away for the time being. But it

4:13

does mean the shuttle around does mean that

4:16

we get to hear some new voices. Becca,

4:18

no pressure. Becca. I just feel like I

4:20

should apologise at this point if you've

4:22

got me. No! No, well, luckily we're coming

4:24

to something that you should have been paying

4:27

attention to. And that is the Tour Down

4:29

Under, because you were commentating on that.

4:31

So hopefully you're paying attention. Obviously that

4:33

kicked off the Women's World Tour season

4:36

for the year. Started on stage

4:38

one, a sprint finish for Ali

4:41

Wollaston. Stage two assessor, Ludwig,

4:43

win, which was kind of, yes,

4:45

maybe Kate came out of the

4:47

blue a little bit. And stage

4:49

three, Sarah Gigante, which we heard

4:51

you after Sarah Gigante's win. We

4:54

heard you and Marti, nobly pushing

4:56

on, even though you were so

4:58

very emotional about Sarah Gigante

5:02

and her post-race interview. Yes. So

5:04

what you're referring to here is,

5:06

right, you're saying that I was very

5:09

emotional and you were... You were holding back

5:11

tears, that's what we heard. You were questioning

5:13

if I was being authentic with my level

5:15

of emotion. And I would just like to

5:17

clarify that I was. And I was speculating

5:19

on the fact that perhaps because I'd commentated

5:21

for three nights through the night, and

5:24

I couldn't really get any sleep in

5:26

daylight hours. And I was

5:28

so sleep deprived and so, so

5:30

taken aback by the victory of Gigante

5:32

that I was genuinely welling up, pretty

5:35

much crying in the commentary box. So

5:37

that is true. It is true. It

5:39

is nice to be there because she was welling up.

5:41

She was very overcome with emotion. So much that I

5:44

had no idea what she did in the first place

5:46

interview, to be honest. But she was very overcome with

5:48

emotion. And she was saying, you know, that everyone had

5:50

kind of, it's very hard when you're so young and

5:52

everyone thinks that you're washed

5:54

up. Yeah. And she

5:56

finally got this result again, actually at the

5:59

race which she... kind of made her name in

6:01

in the first place. Yeah and

6:03

we joke but it was it was

6:05

emotional and yeah at the moment anyone

6:08

crying in an interview definitely sets me

6:10

off. But yeah I think just something

6:12

we'll delve into more is the context

6:14

of that win. And the

6:16

fact that I think she knew

6:18

exactly what she could do actually on that

6:20

day normally because she had that sort of a

6:22

segment the massive sign there confirming it. Just

6:25

to overcome so many

6:27

setbacks and I think

6:29

that's what genuinely gripped us in

6:32

that moment was seeing her realize that.

6:34

We've talked about this off air but it's a

6:36

bit of a tale of redemption in

6:38

some cases. She's had a tough couple of years.

6:40

She's so young. She is I mean we talk

6:42

about the fact that she felt washed up but

6:45

she's only 23. But

6:47

she came to our attention so young didn't she

6:49

and I think the danger is

6:51

when someone a cyclist is so young that you

6:53

think their trajectory is just only going to go

6:55

upwards from there. And clearly she's had a really

6:58

tough couple of years as a set becker with

7:00

health issues and you know there were issues in

7:02

her team. She felt she wasn't getting race last

7:05

year and I think it's it's

7:07

really interesting because it comes at a time when

7:09

there seems to be a trend. Also

7:12

in men's cycling but also in women's cycling we've

7:14

seen the signing of five kind of

7:16

18 year olds at Little Trek of kind of

7:19

looking to youth and but

7:22

I think you know we always see this

7:24

kind of non-linear trajectory of

7:26

progression in women's cycling in particular. And

7:28

in anime, anime bambootam was a case

7:30

in point a couple of episodes ago.

7:33

I think it just goes to show that the team

7:35

environment the kind of mental environment of a

7:37

rider has so much

7:39

kind of influence on their perspective

7:41

on life. And she seems to

7:43

have really found her feet at

7:46

Asian shorts. And there's just near

7:48

pressure wasn't there like you kind of

7:50

touched upon Becca. She had like the

7:52

straw of a segment on that Wallunga

7:55

Hill. So everyone was really looking to

7:57

her. So I imagine for her also

7:59

the motion. or being like, if I'm

8:01

ever going to win anything, I've got to

8:03

win this. Yeah. And I

8:05

think going back to what you were referring

8:07

to there, Denny, is you sign for a team

8:09

like Movistar in the World Tour banks, and

8:12

you think, I mean, what an amazing moment.

8:15

And everybody's looking at you saying, this is the

8:17

big break, this is it. You're

8:19

riding with the likes of Annemiele van

8:21

Vleuten, but then you're not fielding races.

8:23

And I think that is something typical

8:25

across men's and women's cycling, is

8:27

that what is perceived to

8:29

be a rider's biggest career

8:31

opportunity can unfortunately offer them

8:34

when there's so many talents already

8:36

in that squad. And going

8:38

back to the setbacks as well, I

8:40

mean, how she dealt with that mentally must

8:42

have been just absolutely massive behind the scenes,

8:44

wasn't it? Yeah, and I was trying to

8:46

think of other riders that kind of, you

8:49

know, have had these moments where they've seemed

8:51

like they're kind of washed up and kind

8:54

of come back and go, result. I

8:56

mean, to find someone who's that young is

8:58

very hard, I think. I mean, the only

9:00

person I could read that really came to

9:03

mind was like Mariana Voss, which sounds absurd.

9:05

But I remember last year I was listening

9:07

back to kind of our archived episodes when

9:10

me and Orla and Richard were doing the

9:12

women's tour years ago, and

9:14

we were kind of commenting then, you know, Mariana Voss,

9:18

she's kind of over-trained. I

9:20

think it was like 2015 kind of thing. She's

9:22

over-trained. And she hasn't got, you

9:24

know, she's not getting the results, and

9:26

she's had a few injury setbacks, and she's just not

9:29

coming back to the level that she should be. Which

9:32

is total in hindsight now is just

9:34

totally ridiculous that she's come back. And

9:36

obviously recently she's also been hampered by

9:38

more surgery and injury. But, you know,

9:40

she's got so many more results since

9:42

that. And also, Marta Bastianelli, she also

9:44

had kind of a low time, but

9:46

also was popping babies out, so it's

9:48

kind of a bit more understandable.

9:51

But yeah, I was trying to think of

9:53

other riders who would have been in that situation. Yeah,

9:55

and as you say, it does sound sort of ludicrous

9:57

knowing now what she's come back to do, Mariana Voss.

10:00

I was working with her and seeing her quite

10:02

frequently during that time where she was up for

10:04

the bike because of course she was able to

10:06

take media commitments that she wouldn't otherwise have been

10:08

able to do when she was racing. And

10:11

that was the narrative, was it? That's the

10:13

best. So was that right? Yeah, she's done. She's

10:16

absolutely done, which is another thing

10:18

that we see frequently in the sport, which

10:20

is so negative. It's just absolutely writing people

10:23

off overnight to spot everything she had done

10:25

in all the different

10:27

disciplines she'd done in. But

10:29

talking about

10:33

young riders and that narrative of, you know, we

10:35

keep going back to the quotes from Sarah Gigante,

10:37

don't we, saying like, washed up? Because just thinking

10:39

how young she is, she was like, that's Sarah's

10:42

quote, not our quote. Yeah,

10:44

sorry, that's Sarah Gigante's quote about herself,

10:46

that people were saying that she was washed

10:48

up. We certainly have not agreed with that

10:50

in any way. I was thinking

10:53

back, and this shows how long I've

10:55

been in cycling journalism, but Danny Rowe,

10:57

they're all burst in, they're all burst

10:59

in from my era. No, Danny

11:02

Rowe, no kidding. And I

11:05

was having to even fact check on this

11:07

when I was thinking about this comparison, because

11:09

again, it's quite hard one to

11:11

believe that everything she's worked out

11:13

across the track remote. But in

11:15

the Olympic cycle coming up to

11:17

London 2012, some people might remember

11:20

that she spent two years off

11:22

the GB cycling squad, and in

11:24

that time was training on

11:27

her own with that

11:29

dream that she was going to make it to

11:32

the home Olympics. And at that point, there was,

11:34

I mean, not only no guarantee that she was

11:36

going to be in that team pursuit, but that

11:38

narrative was perhaps you're not going to get there.

11:42

And she had that belief that,

11:44

you know, the duration of two

11:46

years that she could train herself

11:49

and have enough. Yeah,

11:51

it just comes back to that self belief when nobody

11:53

else is backing you. But you're saying, you know what,

11:55

I know that I've got this in me. I'm not

11:57

going to give up on that dream. and I'm going

12:00

to keep going and obviously the rest was history. She

12:02

came back into the squad, I believe 2010.

12:05

2012 secured victory at home games

12:07

and I think what

12:10

got me very emotional at the end of

12:12

a Tour Down Under was that it transcends

12:14

sport, it truly does, because how many of

12:16

us have been told in our chosen field

12:18

of sport or passions outside of that that

12:20

you just need to give up because it's

12:22

not going to happen, it's too difficult. And

12:24

for me as well just trying to break

12:26

into the media and then wanting to be

12:29

a broadcaster so many people say well everyone

12:31

wants to do it, everyone wants to be a pro cyclist, everyone

12:33

wants to be in front of the camera, good luck with that.

12:35

And people do write you off and I think

12:38

to look at stories like Danny having two years

12:40

and that must have been tremendously difficult at points

12:42

to think am I going to make it, is

12:44

all this work going to pay off and it

12:46

ultimately did for both of those riders. For

12:49

me it's partly also a reflection of just how disposable

12:52

riders are at some times, you know

12:54

they have short contracts generally, there was

12:56

a trend now to contracts being slightly

12:58

longer but often when you're

13:00

signed as a neo pro you may have

13:03

one where you have two years maybe three

13:05

if you're lucky and it's a very short

13:07

window in which you need to prove yourself and

13:10

it's very tempting for a team to,

13:12

it must be very tempting

13:15

to look at the next generation coming through

13:17

or a rider that's got the results in

13:19

the bag from the previous season rather than

13:21

put faith in a rider that may have

13:23

had difficulties for a season or two. I

13:26

think for me it's a lovely story

13:28

because there must have been a sliding doors

13:30

moment there where she could easily have not

13:33

got a contract or things could have worked

13:35

out slightly differently and that must happen

13:37

all the time in cycling. There were

13:39

many riders that had never had their moment on Willonga

13:41

Hill kind of raising their arms

13:43

because they've been dismissed by their team and

13:45

their mental health gone on down the spiral

13:48

and so on. So I

13:50

think for me it's all the more a

13:52

positive story because of that and because of

13:54

that fragility in the cycling world. Their

13:57

careers are so short they need to make it

13:59

matter. It's nice to see

14:01

that you're tearing up as well, to me, as

14:03

well. I don't know whether it's the couple of

14:05

points that you've heard or whether it's the

14:07

emotion of the moment, but I can see

14:09

you getting glassy-eyed. But it's interesting actually

14:12

to talk about Sarah Giganti and then talk about whoever,

14:15

who, well not whoever, we know who won

14:18

the stage before, and that was Cecilia Tritludvig,

14:20

because it's interesting because a lot is expected

14:22

of Cecilia Tritludvig all the time.

14:24

And I think in some ways, she

14:26

almost has the opposite problem where people

14:29

are always expecting her to win, but

14:31

actually she might not be quite the

14:33

right rider to win as much as

14:35

people think that she's going to. And

14:37

so I think people are

14:39

always delighted when she wins, because she's such

14:41

a passionate kind of advocate and ambassador for

14:43

the sport. But she

14:46

doesn't win as much as people think.

14:49

Maybe she doesn't win as much as you think. I

14:51

don't know. Maybe. She's

14:55

had a few wins. I mean, I think, yeah. I

14:57

think whenever she's like in that kind of

15:00

small group and she's going up against the

15:02

likes of Elisa Longo, Borgini and Demi Vollering,

15:04

whatever, people are always kind of thinking that

15:06

she, and it's a

15:09

bit like what I think with Cassie and

15:11

Evia Doma as well. I mean, obviously Cassie

15:13

and Evia Doma has actually won an S-Fantasly

15:15

or Tritludvig in recent years, but they're both

15:17

kind of, or have been, peachy

15:19

riders that people expect a lot from. But

15:21

actually there's probably not as many races that

15:24

is going to suit them where

15:27

they're going to be able to get the upper hand on

15:29

the likes of Demi Vollering or on previous years. And I

15:31

mean, Van Vlutin, I'm just justifying what I

15:33

said there and go, Denny, roll

15:35

with that. Well,

15:38

I don't really know what to say to that. I mean. So

15:41

you think that she does, she wins as much as you

15:43

think she should win. Well, I think your point

15:45

was more that she has a lot of expectation

15:47

on her. Yeah, no, I think so. You think

15:49

that people expect her to win more than Patti

15:52

does. Yes, yes. Which may be fair, and I

15:54

guess she's also on a team where she does

15:56

carry a lot of the leadership responsibilities and therefore

15:58

they pin a lot of hopes on her, which

16:00

also carries a lot of hope. pressure but you're

16:03

right it is different to the situation where kind

16:05

of a rider she's not in danger of being

16:07

flicked by her team edit at any moment she's

16:09

she has a different kind of pressure but

16:13

to answer your point I think she

16:15

won the Tour of Scandinavia last

16:18

year? No she didn't win the Tour of Scandinavia

16:21

Adam Ethan Bluton won the Tour of

16:23

Scandinavia. She almost, she should have won the

16:25

Tour of Scandinavia. She lost it. Well there

16:27

we go, whoever you're proving my point. No

16:30

no she lost that by, she

16:32

won two stages but she didn't

16:34

win overall. Thank you

16:36

Rose, thank you. Yeah

16:38

I don't know what to say to that really. We

16:41

didn't really get to see the Sítjötte Livvig against

16:44

her usual European rivals so did we because the

16:47

fields that get sent to Tour of Scandinavia are

16:49

slightly different like you don't know if SD works

16:52

there and so it's a slightly

16:54

so although she got the win I think

16:56

that that would mean a lot

16:59

for her I don't know whether it means much for the

17:01

rest of the season I think is what I'm looking for.

17:03

No I mean I mean I really enjoy these

17:05

early season races because they do give you clues

17:07

and pointers as to what is going to happen

17:09

in the season ahead but clearly riders have arrived

17:12

in them in different kind of levels of form

17:14

you know some may have a good winter some

17:16

may let's say some may be targeting races later

17:19

on in the season so we can't tell a

17:21

lot but nonetheless I think it's a good sign

17:23

for her to get that early win. I'm sure

17:25

it'd be great for a confidence that you're right

17:28

I don't think we can read too much into

17:30

it in terms of what she's going to be

17:32

like when she faces kind of stiffer

17:34

competition. And we have seen obviously

17:36

like you said you know enjoy these early

17:38

races because you also get a few different

17:40

names out there and one of

17:42

the most catchy names in the peloton has

17:44

got to be Ninka Vinka

17:47

who came second overall we were actually

17:49

before we started recording having a debate

17:51

about how to pronounce Ninka Vinka

17:53

but it is Ninka Vinka isn't it Becca you're the

17:55

commentator that's what you were saying. I would like to

17:57

say with confidence that I believe I think It's

18:00

Ninka Vinka. I've literally since seeing her,

18:02

because it was a very quiet win,

18:04

well not a win sorry, quiet second

18:06

place, it's not like we saw her

18:09

up there a lot and there was kind of a lot

18:11

of attention was pulled to Sarah Gigante and her result. But

18:15

literally since it happened, it's just like

18:17

to me like Ninka Vinka, it's like

18:19

a winner winner chicken dinner. So now,

18:21

when I go around my house I'm

18:24

just thinking like Ninka Vinka, wash the

18:26

sinker. I'm

18:28

absolutely delighted to confirm that

18:30

that is in fact how you say her name

18:32

because we enjoy saying it, it just rolls up

18:35

the tongue very well, Ninka Vinka. And what I

18:37

mean also, a brilliant result, I was about to

18:39

say. But yeah,

18:41

she's a real young talent isn't

18:43

she? I think she's like 19 years

18:45

old and you know I hope Denny that

18:47

we'll be saying Ninka Vinka for Ninka Vinka.

18:49

I'm trying to think of another one, I

18:51

can't call it, what a sinker? But that's

18:54

not what a sinker, because you did really

18:56

well. But it just stays in my head,

18:58

Ninka Vinka. We need suggestions from listeners about

19:00

Ryan's Ninka Vinka. I was

19:02

thinking actually, instead of doing cryptic criteria, I

19:04

could do like a quiz where it's all

19:06

based on you have to say

19:08

Ninka Vinka, then something that rhymes. It's

19:11

in development listeners, it is in development, trying

19:13

to work out how to do it. But

19:15

yes, we want more Ninka Vinka suggestions, that's

19:17

absolutely right. Another name's like Ninka Vinka as well, I

19:19

think more rhyming. More rhyming

19:21

names. But anyway, to

19:23

get back to her actual performance. She'd

19:26

be good, yes. She's only 19,

19:28

obviously with DSM, Fermonic, post

19:30

NL, as they're now called. This is I

19:32

guess one of the reasons I love these

19:34

early season races, because for her this is

19:36

a real breakthrough result. She says after

19:39

the race that she hadn't really had many opportunities

19:41

to ride for herself as yet, she's

19:43

only in her second season as a pro of course. But

19:45

this was, I think, the team road for her on

19:48

that final stage and she really got

19:50

to prove herself. Obviously a bit of

19:52

a climber, she came seventh in the Tour

19:54

de Lavanir last year, performed really well on

19:56

the mountain stages. and

20:00

she was third in the world's junior road

20:02

race in Australia, so Australia's obviously a happy

20:04

hunting ground for her. She's one

20:07

of those riders that I guess will now keep

20:09

tabs on, not just because of her lovely name.

20:11

Obviously won to watch in the mountains, she's only

20:13

19 and I guess obviously

20:15

Dutch riders have an amazing

20:17

heritage in women's road racing, so

20:19

there may be talking about pressure, it'll be interesting to

20:22

see whether there's now a bit of pressure from

20:24

her amongst the Dutch press. I

20:26

love how she's just got a second place at the

20:29

first race of the season and Denny's like pressure, put

20:31

the pressure on her, come on nigga. I mean, you

20:33

know, I mean she... No,

20:35

it's part and parcel of being from those nations, isn't

20:38

it? Yeah, and you know, it was

20:40

a tremendous performance at such a

20:42

young age, so people will expect a

20:44

lot of her now. You still thinking job change

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21:44

Fresh for everyone. Allie Walliston,

21:46

we haven't spoken about, won the first

21:48

stage. A great sprint for her. She

21:50

is a Kiwi rider from New Zealand.

21:54

And when she won, I was kind of

21:56

thinking like, it's funny that we have this

21:58

crop of fantastic riders. from

22:00

New Zealand at the moment when I remember

22:02

kind of ten years ago there

22:04

really were hardly any riders at

22:06

all. So that kind of got me thinking and this is

22:08

something we're going to do all year on the cycling podcast

22:10

actually, a bit of a new thing where we're going to

22:13

do a mini feature for each

22:15

episode with something that's kind of piqued

22:17

our interest. So I went off

22:19

to find out a bit about why there

22:21

was suddenly this new generation of New Zealand

22:23

riders that were all doing so well, you

22:26

know, what the reasons behind and why

22:29

they were there before. So have a

22:31

listen to this. Yeah,

22:33

at some point the tackling really grows

22:36

and we get a lot of recognition. At some

22:38

points it's quite difficult, especially with the racing scene

22:40

there. I think a few years ago when I

22:42

went home to New Zealand, no

22:45

one could really fathom the fact that I could

22:47

do this for a living. Even now sometimes I

22:49

go back and I say I'm a cyclist and

22:51

I don't really understand. But for sure I

22:53

notice as we get more numbers in the

22:56

professional ranks, people more and more understand what

22:58

I do. With rolling hills, mild

23:00

climates and good roads, New Zealand

23:03

should be a rider's dream. But

23:05

as SD works as new fish have been to

23:07

lose, for a long time the distance, both

23:10

in terms of courtesy and

23:12

financing culture, between New Zealand and

23:14

the traditional racing heartland, couldn't have

23:16

been greater. The nation has

23:18

never landed a podium finish at a

23:21

senior level World Championships road race. And

23:23

unlike Neighbours Australia, it's never had

23:26

a UCI women's team. But

23:28

right now there are more Kiwi riders

23:30

at World Tour level than ever before.

23:33

Among them, Tour Down Under stage

23:35

winner Ali Walliston, Human Powered Health

23:38

Henrietta Christie, Ella Wiley

23:40

of Liv Alula-Jaco and Mikayla

23:42

Harvey of UAE ADQ. In

23:45

basically since I was 13, I

23:47

was being raced in the bike doing

23:49

that. And yeah I just

23:51

fell in love with it. And I was doing the

23:53

scene in New Zealand which was, it's always been

23:56

quite small, especially compared to what it's

23:59

like. overseas in Europe I

24:01

really, like when I first went

24:03

to Europe I really realised how huge site

24:05

cleaners over there compared to

24:08

New Zealand. So it's always been quite

24:11

the challenge coming from like small town

24:13

New Zealand. It was a challenge

24:15

Michaela's father Patrick met head on. No

24:18

infrastructure, no problem. And

24:20

so came about the Black Magic women's cycling

24:23

team. This was back

24:25

in 2015-2016 I think

24:27

we started. There was a little

24:30

bit of racing around at a club

24:32

level. But it was always a few

24:34

one or two women mixed in with the

24:36

usually masters men. Yeah there was basically just

24:39

club racing, schools racing was really big in

24:41

New Zealand so at least they hit that.

24:44

And then sort of there was a big

24:46

gap. Well I suppose it

24:48

was Mikana what drove it obviously with

24:50

being our daughter. But we made that

24:52

decision to put our feet in the

24:55

water and form a women's team, race

24:57

locally. Interesting enough once you start to

24:59

do that it generates more interest and

25:01

you've got more teams getting involved. So

25:03

that series here hopefully went from 15

25:06

or whatever way up to 50-60 within

25:08

a couple of years. So it was

25:11

really cold locally but pretty quickly as

25:13

well we saw that it still wasn't enough

25:15

so we needed racing overseas.

25:17

Definitely when we first got involved the

25:19

racing in Australia was really good. So

25:21

they had a series called the National

25:23

Road Series. We identified

25:25

that pretty much straight away. We went there in

25:27

our first year and we turned up from a

25:30

race here where we have maybe 20-30 riders. And

25:33

we went to Australia and there was a hundred women on the

25:35

start line. It was like

25:37

wow this was awesome. Training and

25:39

racecraft are a small part of Patrick's

25:41

vision. What's important is

25:44

exposing young kiwi talent to races on

25:46

a bigger stage with all

25:48

roads ultimately leading back to Europe. We

25:51

can get riders to Europe and get

25:53

them exposed and what we

25:55

hope we send maybe 8 riders across even

25:57

if we get 2 or 3 of them.

26:00

They have that light bulb moment and they go,

26:02

wow, this is an amazing sport, it's

26:04

so exciting, I love it. That's

26:06

what we're trying to ignite, if you like.

26:08

That's what happened with, I suppose,

26:10

my Michaela, Nev, Kim

26:15

Kudzel raised me recently, so she was a great

26:17

example. I saw her at a local race, once

26:19

again, like 10, 15. People

26:22

on the phone, man, she's coming to, she's from

26:24

a local area and she was a triathlete and

26:26

was just babbling in it. And I said, hey,

26:28

there is actually this career opportunity, you

26:30

can actually become a professional in this.

26:33

And I could see even then, she

26:35

had a light bulb moment and then

26:37

we got her across to Australia and

26:40

then with Torelli and a couple of things in

26:43

Europe and then, yeah, that's where she's

26:45

gone, has driven her passion even further.

26:48

Kim Kudzel is now at EF

26:50

Education Cannondale Team, battling out against

26:52

Annemiek van Fluten and Cecilia Trebludvig

26:54

at the Tour of Scandinavia last

26:56

year. There's an undeniable growth

26:58

of Kiwi talent. But

27:01

even a decade ago, homegrown New Zealand

27:03

racers were thin on the ground. Joakie

27:05

Sonofsky was one of the few who

27:08

made it, despite no clear pathways or

27:10

permanent funding, enjoying an 11 year career

27:12

on the road, riding for teams like

27:14

Tibco. I went to the

27:17

US first and I was a track

27:19

racer first and then I, yeah, started

27:21

doing crits while I was over there,

27:24

just, you know, it was something else to do along

27:27

with the track racing. And then after

27:29

a couple of summers in the US, I got

27:31

my first pro contract for a road team. It

27:33

was just racing in the US and then it

27:36

wasn't until a couple of years into that that

27:38

I went over to Europe. And it's actually kind

27:40

of a cool story. It was Sarah

27:42

Ulmer who was, you know,

27:45

definitely somebody I was looking up to

27:47

when I was racing and

27:49

I got to race with her on the national

27:51

team. And so there was a few of us.

27:54

We had this idea that we

27:56

wanted to go to Europe and, you know,

27:58

show that we could be... national team

28:00

racing in the World Cup. So I think there

28:02

was like some deal like that if we got

28:05

in the top 25 in a World Cup and

28:07

we would get funding for the next year. We had to

28:10

prove that we you know could race at the world best

28:12

and I think we got like I remember

28:14

over at the top 25 I got like

28:16

22 or something and then in up

28:18

next year I got like 22nd. It was something

28:20

like this and we were just like ecstatic because

28:22

we were like oh my gosh we're gonna be

28:25

able to race here next year. It was such

28:27

a cool thing that we did and we got

28:29

national team funding and we you know did all

28:31

the big World Cups in

28:34

2004 over there and yeah so that's how

28:36

it kind of started and then I got

28:39

my first European pro team after

28:41

Athens so in 2005. Despite

28:43

the highs when opportunities came away

28:46

Kiezanowski's time away from home as

28:48

a young racer wasn't without challenges.

28:50

Not many people yeah

28:52

could do it how I did it I think

28:54

you know when I did it and that's why

28:56

because it was quite daunting. It

28:59

was not easy for sure you know back then the first

29:01

year that I went to the state so 99, 2000

29:04

you know and literally like

29:07

I would have to do like you know

29:09

payphone like on the corner somewhere

29:11

like you know collect cool balls back

29:14

to New Zealand. Even when I was on

29:16

my first Italian team I

29:18

would have to go to like the bookstore

29:20

in the little Italian villager I was living and ask

29:22

them if I could plug in my laptop to use

29:24

their dial-up so I could check my AOL. You know

29:26

you tell like you know your

29:29

nieces and nephews or even even my girls on

29:31

the team you tell them that and they'll be

29:33

like what the hell how old are you you

29:35

know. Now though as

29:37

the community of Kiwi riders grows in

29:39

Europe cyclists can enjoy more of a

29:41

home away from home. Definitely when I

29:43

sort of followed Michaela into Bigland things that

29:46

we had already a lot of camaraderies just

29:48

as fellow Kiwis but also I think anyone

29:50

can say between their national teammates

29:52

they have competition and in

29:55

a nice way because obviously we've also

29:57

been teammates yeah so it's a nice

29:59

thing. have each other in the

30:01

bunch these days. There are still challenges, this

30:03

can't be overlooked. National funding

30:05

is structured around Olympic sports and there's lots

30:07

of red tape involved in organising bike

30:09

races in New Zealand. However,

30:12

what can't be understated is the influence

30:14

that live streams of races have had

30:16

in bringing the sport to a new

30:18

audience of potential young racers on the

30:20

other side of the world. You

30:22

often see it in all factors of life,

30:24

you know, if you see one

30:26

person do it then it's sort of like, it

30:29

opens something in your mind that it's possible.

30:31

And I think for me definitely I saw

30:33

people like George Williams and Michaela Harvey that

30:35

they could do it and so then

30:38

I thought, ah, so I can do it. At

30:40

one point it may seem impossible but yeah, I think

30:42

the more of us that do it, it makes people

30:44

realise that it is possible. And this

30:46

current crop of elite Kiwi riders hasn't forgotten

30:49

the pathway that helped them on their journey

30:51

to the world tour. I mean, you know

30:53

the sport really well. It's a hard sport,

30:55

it's a really hard sport, so it's got

30:57

lots of ups and downs. So,

31:01

seeing them when they have their

31:03

good moments and cherishing those

31:05

and being able to sort

31:07

of share in that excitement

31:09

as well. We're really lucky

31:11

with the lights and knees,

31:13

like Ella and

31:15

so on. They always sort of come

31:18

back and talk to us and share

31:20

with our riders, their experience and that's

31:22

really cool too. New Zealand's

31:24

physical distance from the racing heartlands of

31:27

Europe won't ever change. But

31:29

social media has brought them closer than

31:31

ever before. Great that

31:33

people can look up to

31:35

their idols, you know, like

31:37

Steve Fischer-Black and Michaela and

31:39

Henry and Ella and, you know, whoever

31:41

else is racing at the moment. It's

31:44

great that they can do that for

31:46

all along. And obviously have better

31:48

dreams than they can be for a cycle.

31:50

You can actually make it a

31:52

viable career. this

32:00

year's little mini feature from the cycling

32:02

progress of the land which we're going

32:04

to hopefully do every month

32:06

a bit of a deep dive maybe I'm

32:08

selling it too much say deep dive, shallow

32:11

dive into a particular

32:13

kind of topic that can start in twist but

32:15

that was about New Zealand rides

32:17

and the things that overall message I think that

32:19

really came through to me that sort of surprised

32:21

me was that the great

32:24

thing that these New Zealand riders have

32:26

benefited from was not kind of a

32:28

better pathway though of course Patrick Harvey's

32:30

doing great things at Blackmagic women nor

32:32

is it cheaper flights or more financial

32:35

backing but it's more the

32:37

inspiration it's the fact that the

32:39

riders can actually watch and watch

32:41

on demand all of these races

32:43

they can actually see that there's a pathway

32:45

of career that there are there is a

32:47

peloton of hundreds of female

32:49

riders that are racing at the top level and

32:51

that kind of just made me think how important

32:54

it is we keep

32:56

pushing for like you know live race

32:59

coverage and you know professional decent race

33:01

coverage as well. Yeah I think

33:03

that really struck me actually is the fact

33:05

that it seems like something not even worth

33:07

talking about something like but actually became the

33:09

biggest factor didn't it like you

33:11

feel like the world's getting smaller and I

33:13

think something we've also nodded to earlier in

33:15

the podcast is that we

33:17

are seeing such young riders signed by

33:20

the World Tour teams now and you

33:22

do forget the really obvious things like

33:24

they see from

33:26

that part of the world are going

33:28

into an environment away from every family

33:31

member every friend and they're plunging into

33:33

you know sometimes teams that are speaking a

33:35

different language entirely and I think it's easy

33:37

to underestimate how if I think back to

33:39

being you know 20 year old

33:42

and how I might have felt if they had

33:44

to pursue your profession you're going to have to

33:46

leave everything you know and things

33:48

like the ability to FaceTime or you

33:50

know what that cool video call whatever

33:52

that you know so many resources now

33:55

to actually be able to keep in

33:57

touch and you know collectively we know

33:59

how hard, we have pushed for

34:01

so long to have better race coverage and

34:04

it's clearly making the difference

34:07

isn't it? There still aren't huge amounts of

34:10

riders from New Zealand in the professional peloton

34:12

that have to say that but I also

34:14

wonder whether that language does play

34:16

a role as well. Increasingly one of the, it's

34:18

very obvious when I went to the Tour de

34:21

France family, you're there Becca too

34:23

of course. Last

34:25

summer it was an English speaking peloton and

34:27

that must help enormously as well as a

34:29

rider from New Zealand. You haven't got to

34:32

overcome the same language hurdles that other riders

34:34

may have to overcome. But it's interesting

34:36

isn't it? Because I did actually meant

34:38

that we didn't put it in the feature

34:40

but I did speak to Patrick Harvey about

34:42

that. What is the big difference between New

34:44

Zealand and Australia? And he said,

34:46

you know Australia they've had a really

34:48

well funded national

34:51

programme for many many years which turned

34:53

into then the kind of Orica,

34:55

Jaco thing that it is now, Team Bike

34:57

Exchange, Team that it is now. And you

35:00

know they most often feel

35:02

a very Aussie focused team

35:05

and obviously some Kiwi riders have benefited from that

35:07

in the past but you know that's how

35:09

they're getting a number Australian

35:11

riders competing in

35:13

Europe where all the big races are.

35:15

Yeah I'm sure that programme helps and obviously

35:18

I know that in the past the Australian

35:21

Institute of Sport have kind of funded riders to

35:23

race abroad and get exposure with other teams and

35:25

riders and races and so on. I mean obviously

35:27

New Zealand have a great track record on the

35:29

track. They were second in

35:31

the team suit just in Glasgow a few

35:34

months ago but interestingly I think it's only

35:36

Allie Walliston who's kind of a prominent rider

35:38

in the world tour. So you

35:42

know. I did actually look up

35:44

Allie Walliston's roots because she wasn't a black

35:46

magic woman person. And her

35:49

school has a

35:51

world class velodrome in its backyard

35:53

so no surprise that she became

35:56

a track rider. Talking of black magic cycling

35:58

as well I was just also struck. by some of

36:00

the brilliant names of some of the teams. I was looking

36:02

at their... Well,

36:05

I was looking at the results from the

36:07

Gravel and TAR Laffem, which is all a

36:09

fam, which is the only UCI road race

36:11

in New Zealand. And amongst

36:13

the teams, apart from Blackmagic Women's Cycling,

36:16

were Green Monkey and

36:18

Black Dirt Collective. So I don't know, I mean...

36:20

Oh, they're good, aren't they? They're all colours, though.

36:22

They are colours. I mean, obviously, Black is the,

36:24

kind of, I guess... Yeah, I guess the New

36:26

Zealand, yeah, all Black. Anyway,

36:29

top marks for team names. Well,

36:31

the Ninka-Ninka team is to

36:34

be... C'mon, the winner-winner chicken

36:37

dinner team, that's even better, will be

36:39

the theme of the podcast. I haven't

36:41

done any extensive research into fun names.

36:43

Sorry, Jenny, sorry, Rose. But

36:47

I think something we actually have a little

36:50

chinwag off-pod about, was the

36:52

fact that sometimes a

36:55

track squad, when it comes to Olympic

36:57

development, can be so prominent, that actually

36:59

beyond that, if you're not in

37:01

that, like mentioning Danny earlier, if you're

37:03

not in that setup for the track,

37:06

it's not a word you go from there. And I

37:08

think sometimes we think that the progression is perhaps better

37:10

than it is. As you say,

37:12

Australian cycling is just being, you

37:15

know, well-renowned, isn't it? They've got

37:17

such good development. But

37:19

I've closely followed the progression of Zwift

37:21

Academy, and I've been sort of covering

37:23

that since the first year it

37:26

took place. And everyone had their

37:28

heads turned and said, wow, like seriously,

37:30

this is what the culmination of

37:32

this is, that you get to step straight into the world,

37:35

having put out amazing power data, and that's

37:37

what you win at the end of

37:39

it. And Ella Harris is a Kiwi

37:41

rider who came through that. Yeah, and

37:43

Ella, as you say, Ella Harris won

37:45

that, stepped into Canyon Tram. And

37:48

what that has done has been

37:50

huge for riders from that part

37:52

of the world. And sort of

37:54

segwaying onto Australian cycling, I interviewed

37:56

Niamh Bradbury when she won Zwift

37:59

Academy. It was the first time,

38:01

and again, it sounds so obvious saying it back now,

38:03

but at the time, it wasn't something I'd given a

38:05

huge amount of thought to, and she said the biggest

38:07

thing is, everything is happening

38:09

in Europe, and imagine, and she again, a

38:12

very young rider at the time, and

38:14

she was still very young, but when she

38:16

won it, even younger, and saying how daunting

38:18

a prospect it is for a teenager to

38:21

say, well, how do I get the

38:23

Palmares that's going to turn the heads of

38:25

the World War team if I can't even

38:27

build races in Europe? And that's why I

38:30

think we've seen so much success from that

38:32

part of the world, New Zealand and Australia,

38:35

in, I guess, just

38:37

prioritising, actually, targeting the Swiss Academy as their

38:39

route over to Europe and the World Tour.

38:42

And there are also those other methods that

38:44

have also come across, but it's all part

38:46

of that kind of notion of the world

38:48

becoming a little bit smaller, a bit more

38:50

connected, isn't it? That you also have kind

38:52

of the Canyon Sram generation team that

38:55

is finding riders from Jamaica,

38:58

Rwanda, Sierra Leone, and

39:01

also riders that don't have the

39:03

normal pathways in Europe to find

39:05

these talents and help

39:07

them come through, have a development team

39:10

that they wouldn't have in their own

39:13

countries, which is key. Now,

39:15

another thing also that Patrick Harvey touched

39:17

upon was also kind of the lack

39:19

of racing that there is in New

39:22

Zealand, and he also said to me

39:24

that that is one of the, probably

39:27

their greatest challenge is trying to hold

39:29

these races, and there's a lot of

39:31

regulation in New Zealand, and it's

39:33

expensive, and people don't want to have their roads

39:36

closed. And that's kind of also

39:38

just demonstrating also

39:40

kind of a global trend, isn't

39:42

it? It's really hard for races

39:45

to continue on in

39:47

a really difficult climate where there isn't

39:50

the money washing around.

39:52

I wish there was ever money swashing around,

39:54

but there really isn't at the

39:56

moment, and that's kind of one thing that

39:58

we've seen with sweet spots. who are the

40:00

organizers of the women's tour. We

40:02

just had it announced last week, I think,

40:04

that they were entering liquidation

40:07

and admitting that

40:10

its liabilities are likely to extend

40:12

way past £1 million, which

40:16

obviously, to put it mildly,

40:18

puts the women's tour, sickly,

40:20

this year in a very, very,

40:22

very bleak position. Denny,

40:24

I know you've been following this

40:26

story very closely, being part

40:28

of British Continental. It's obviously a key part

40:31

of your calendar. Not to make you say,

40:33

oh no, make you say that. You're

40:36

just sitting at home all the time waiting for a bike ride to

40:38

happen. But what I mean is you... That's exactly what

40:40

happens. But

40:42

you'll understand how key it is for, not

40:45

just the... Obviously, we'll get on in a

40:47

minute about how key it is for women's

40:49

cycling to have the women's tour, but how

40:51

key Sweetspot as an organization has

40:54

been to cycling in the UK?

40:58

Pretty much. I mean, beyond... And I'm going to

41:00

get the names of it. Is it marathon events

41:02

that run Ride London? But

41:04

beyond them and Cooling Clues, a

41:07

man who organizes the Rutland Melton

41:09

Cycle Classic. It's a 1.2 men's

41:12

race, which is a brilliant race in its own right.

41:14

But beyond that, Sweetspot have been

41:16

the UCI race organizers in the UK

41:19

for many, many, many years now. And

41:21

not only that, they've organized the tour series

41:23

for Criteriums, which has been on terrestrial

41:26

television. So they've been absolutely

41:28

fundamental to bringing road

41:31

racing to a British TV audience, bringing

41:33

road racing to the streets, engaging

41:37

young fans and providing a

41:39

showcase for cycling in the UK.

41:42

With Sweetspot kind of on

41:44

the edge, things

41:46

do look quite bleak at the UCI

41:48

level for British road racing. It will

41:50

only be... If the

41:52

women's tour... There is still an F. Where

41:55

has the ink come from there,

41:57

Denny? Because obviously, if the Sweetspot is

41:59

in liquidation... and who would

42:01

take up the mantle to... Yeah, so

42:03

from what I understand, Sweetspot owns

42:05

the rights to the women's tour

42:07

brand, but the talking

42:11

to people behind the scenes, the dates are still there

42:13

for the women's road race in the UCI calendar. There's

42:16

nothing to stop another race organizer, British Cycling

42:18

coming forward to try and put on another

42:20

race. And I know British Cycling has said

42:22

publicly that that's what they're trying to do

42:24

to try and make that happen. But

42:26

of course, we're only

42:28

six months away and the 5th

42:30

of June is when it's supposed to start. So there

42:33

isn't long to get venues in place,

42:35

sponsors in place, all the logistics

42:37

you'd need in place to

42:39

organize a women's world tour

42:42

event with all the requirements that

42:44

you'd need for that. So it's a big

42:46

ask, I think, but talking

42:48

to people behind the scenes, things

42:50

aren't completely written off at this

42:52

stage. And I guess we'll hear in

42:54

the coming days and weeks whether anything

42:56

will happen on that front. But in terms of

42:59

the impact, I've been talking to some

43:01

of the British teams. We've got six UCI

43:03

Continental women's teams now in the UK, two

43:06

new ones this year, another Hess Cycling

43:09

of switch licenses that have

43:11

been added to the canon. I'm

43:14

talking to, I spoke to Bob Lyons

43:16

who manages the Alba Road Development Team,

43:18

one of the new UCI Continental teams,

43:20

about the impact it would have on British road racing. I

43:23

mean, for him, I think what

43:25

he was saying was that that's a big part

43:27

of your conversations when you're trying to get sponsorship,

43:29

when you're trying to attract funding. You mentioned the

43:31

women's tour, you mentioned the fact that you might

43:33

be able to race that, be on TV, get

43:35

all that exposure without that around.

43:39

I mean, he said he's okay because

43:41

he wasn't sure he would get a spot

43:43

this year. But for some teams who were

43:45

maybe banking on getting a spot, it

43:48

could be vergy on catastrophic not

43:50

having that kind of exposure, particularly if he's

43:52

got agreements to sponsor stuff and so on.

43:54

So it's not looking good domestically, particularly

43:56

because we've documented it on

43:58

the British Continental a lot. but because the

44:00

domestic scene is struggling at the moment. So

44:03

that's not great, but I mean, Lizzie Diagno

44:05

has also said that it's not great generally

44:07

for women's cycling. The Olympics is

44:09

not long after the women's tour, so it would

44:11

have been a good preparation race for that. And

44:13

obviously, you'll both know, because you've been long involved

44:15

in this, you know, the women's tour had aspirations

44:17

at one point to become the biggest race

44:21

on the women's calendar. And it

44:23

was well respected and well run, and it would be

44:25

a big loss. It is so well regarded

44:27

and has been for so long. It was actually funny

44:29

when I was looking up when the first one was,

44:31

the first one was in 2014, but

44:33

they've only had eight editions. But the

44:35

impact that that race has had is

44:38

huge, isn't it, Rebecca? And obviously, you've

44:40

worked on it for many years and

44:44

have seen firsthand about, you know,

44:46

how much, you know, it

44:48

really holds such a great place in the minds of

44:50

the riders that race in it, because it was kind

44:52

of a very early adopt of

44:55

kind of being professional, which sounds like

44:57

a really stupid thing to say. But

44:59

in terms of, you know, having, it

45:02

seems like having female, you know, portaloos

45:04

in the paddock area where the

45:07

buses are and having space and room and

45:09

getting the school kids out on the roads

45:12

to come and watch and having the safety elements,

45:14

it was all before its time

45:17

in that way. It doesn't sound stupid at all. It's

45:19

an absolute game changer in that respect. And I'm

45:21

going to get all emotional again now. As

45:24

you said, this is one really,

45:26

really close to my heart because

45:28

I had

45:31

the great privilege of hosting the

45:34

TV coverage on ITV for many

45:36

years. I also, you know, when

45:38

it comes to working closely with Sweetspot, I

45:40

was the lead reporter for the Tour of

45:42

Britain. I worked again for

45:45

the ITV TV coverage of the Tour series. And

45:47

I thought that's how much it's available for. That's

45:51

what you're talking about. I

45:53

think jokes aside, I was so

45:55

close to the decisions that they

45:58

were making at Sweetspot and. whenever

46:00

energy came on board and we saw parity

46:02

and prize money and they came out and

46:05

said right we are matching the prize funds

46:07

for the Tour of Britain and it was

46:09

really significant and I know you were sort

46:11

of saying it at town again, crazy.

46:13

To allude to it, but that

46:16

professionalism was unparalleled at the time

46:18

and that's what they brought

46:21

to the racing and I think it would be very

46:23

easy for me as such a fan of that race to

46:26

be biased and see whether it was the

46:28

pinnacle. But it was, it undoubtedly was and as you

46:30

say interviewing riders was

46:33

the record when they were away from any TV

46:35

cameras would always have the women's

46:38

thought the most professionally organised, respectful

46:40

race that nobody else thinks about

46:42

like we might need to go

46:45

to the toilet in the star village. That

46:47

was all caged for prize

46:49

money being a huge talking point and

46:51

yeah they did it so so well,

46:53

the riders wanted to come and race

46:55

it and we saw the best bike

46:57

riders in the world. The first one

47:00

was the first winner

47:02

was Mariana Voss, Lizzie

47:04

Dinan, Elisa Longa-Borgini, Demi

47:06

Vollering I mean these

47:08

are riders, it isn't

47:10

the most big mountain

47:12

pass type race

47:15

but it always attracted the best

47:17

riders but I do feel

47:19

a little bit like it was very hard for

47:21

it I think also with, I was

47:23

going to say, you know, a rising tide,

47:26

lifts all boats, you know, having the

47:28

Tour de France fan come on the scene

47:30

obviously that's not to do with anything to

47:32

do with necessarily sweet spot problems. It's

47:35

very hard for it to have its own

47:37

place and identity when you

47:39

know it can't necessarily offer those huge

47:41

alpine passes which as now, say even

47:43

six years ago it wasn't really a

47:47

big deal, people weren't demanding these huge climbs

47:49

in races and obviously there are big climbs

47:51

in the UK but not necessarily the ones

47:53

that will also want to host the women's

47:56

tour, also struggles a little

47:58

bit with its identity you can

48:00

offer riders, especially as the big riders in the

48:02

world are becoming big climbers. Obviously we did have

48:04

more of that, like the Welsh, big Welsh mountain

48:07

passes, but the early days it was quite flat

48:09

really, wasn't it? Well, I mean if I'd been

48:11

racing I would have been fantastic! I

48:14

was going to say, when I

48:16

was growing up, I absolutely aspired

48:18

to having a race opportunity like

48:20

that, so it would have been

48:22

great to be able to cyclopark.

48:25

If it stopped there that would have been good for me.

48:27

We really hit the nail on the head talking about the

48:29

calibre of riders it attracted, and

48:31

that really was testament to what was

48:33

going on behind the scenes, wasn't it?

48:36

That actually, the amount of respect for

48:38

it was absolutely there. And okay,

48:40

it didn't have the variety of parkour that

48:42

you might get in the Tour de France

48:44

fan or the Giro d'Onné, but nonetheless

48:46

it did provide some really great

48:49

racing, and there was scope for

48:51

that to evolve, and I think actually

48:54

maybe that would have become, or could

48:56

become, if a race on those

48:58

dates continues, its niche. We don't want

49:00

all races to be able to look alike, so I

49:02

think from that perspective in

49:04

terms of the terrain it was covering, I think that's

49:06

fine, as long as you can find a way to

49:09

engineer exciting races, which is down to

49:11

the riders as much as terrain sometimes anyway as

49:13

we know. So yeah, I mean it will be,

49:15

it would be a huge loss if

49:17

it disappears, so fingers crossed

49:19

it remains. Yes, we are

49:21

all hoping that someone will

49:23

swoop in and save it, or maybe

49:26

it's off for now and comes back

49:28

on in the future, but I think

49:30

it would be really sad to, it's

49:32

also hard seeing that, obviously it was

49:35

in hiatus last year, it is kind

49:37

of very rare for a race to do a genuine

49:39

hiatus that isn't kind of related to a

49:41

global epidemic, let's say, and then still come

49:43

back, we kind of saw that with Tour

49:45

de California, it kind of had hiatus, and

49:48

then it never came back, but

49:51

we shouldn't finish on that kind of

49:53

glum note, and actually

49:57

we are getting now into the race.

50:00

season on the horizon we've got

50:02

the likes of Omloop where we

50:04

kind of finally see all those riders

50:06

that have been... well I guess

50:08

because on Instagram you get to see what everyone's doing

50:11

all the time don't you? That you can't ever believe

50:13

it I guess is the problem but we do actually

50:15

finally get to see you know how the likes of

50:17

SD works are fairing. Yeah

50:19

no loads to look forward to I mean this is the

50:22

I think this is one of my favorite parts of

50:24

the season actually just because there's so much anticipation there

50:26

I say it's speculation... I think a minute ago that

50:28

your favorite part was the very early races now you're

50:30

saying it's just the slightly early races then next month

50:32

it will be the mid races. I think that's one

50:35

of the favorite my favorite part. I think they were

50:37

my favorites really. I think well

50:41

this is the time when you've kind of you've

50:43

gone through the winter there's been no racing you've

50:45

been lamenting the lack of racing on

50:48

TV and okay you might have been watching the cyclocross

50:50

or whatever else is on but really just wanted the

50:52

road racing to come on and then by the end

50:54

of the season you're like crikey that's there's so many

50:56

races on all the time I can't wait for it

50:58

to stop I need a break. Well

51:01

this is like a new year when you start

51:03

the new year and you've got resolutions you've

51:06

made and things are going well and you've got

51:08

all this hope and anticipation for the future that's

51:10

how I'm feeling right now. Well I mean that's

51:12

a fantastic sell for the Cyclopox come

51:14

with us on Denny's emotional rollercoaster through

51:16

the season. This is a highly emotionally

51:19

charged podcast. I'm going to blame you

51:21

Becca for the almost new year but

51:23

not new year. I

51:26

don't believe we've actually mentioned this yet

51:28

today it's an Olympic year. Yeah

51:31

how have we not mentioned this show?

51:33

I feel like that's my cliche that

51:35

I've been rolling out in everything lately

51:37

but I do think that it's a

51:39

really interesting one it is. Loads of

51:41

riders were saying and sort

51:43

of team managers were saying how people

51:46

are coming into the likes of the

51:48

Tour Down answer pinging way more than

51:50

any other season and you've

51:52

got riders that again looking at the

51:54

future Olympic people that are looking to

51:57

where they might be around the summertime

51:59

of the Olympics so I think

52:01

it is even more amazing to see

52:03

people absolutely on fire very

52:05

early on in the year with

52:08

a view to maintaining that and

52:10

peaking even more later on in

52:12

the year but it is an

52:14

exciting time of the year. Very

52:16

emotional time. But

52:19

I'm excited but I also think

52:21

that this, you know, the prevalence of

52:23

social media is just getting more and more and more

52:25

in terms of seeing what people are

52:27

doing in training. We don't know until we see them

52:29

race. If you look at my

52:32

Instagram I'm ready for some motorcycling which

52:34

is definitely not the case. I have

52:36

witnessed you, Becca, get dressed up then

52:38

walk to the end of the road,

52:40

stand with your bike, have a photo,

52:42

take a photo. When did

52:44

this happen? I

52:48

wish to refute this. Oh

52:50

great ride, fantastic really. Are you

52:53

making that up? It might be what

52:56

I heard. This is what you perceive

52:58

as my Instagram. I

53:00

have ridden my bike a few times

53:02

this new year. This is my own

53:04

self esteem. Anyway, Becca, thank you very

53:06

much for joining us and I'm

53:08

sure we'll see you in the very local vicinity

53:11

to Wandsworth. In McGonagall.

53:13

There are other fast food

53:15

outlets available. I do think actually that I will,

53:18

I'm going to make a Google map of all

53:20

the places that we've, our little tour de Wandsworths,

53:22

Denny. I'm going to make a little map and

53:24

McDonald's will get a special mention on

53:27

that of all the places that we've gone and probably all the ones, what about all the

53:29

ones that we did at the Tour de France as well, if I

53:31

can remember them. I'll put them all on

53:33

a Google map that everyone can follow. We

53:35

are on Instagram, everybody, so do

53:38

go and find the cycling podcast on

53:40

there. Yes, but thank you very much, Becca. I hope

53:42

that wasn't too torturous for you. Thank you so much

53:45

for having me. And thank

53:47

you Denny, of course. No, thank you. I

53:50

didn't get the introduction Becca got in the

53:52

beginning. I just have to say that now.

53:55

No, no. But that's okay, I'm getting used

53:57

to that. No, no. Yeah, I do. Okay,

53:59

thanks. Okay, now you've heard it here, I'm

54:01

going to make Denny, I'm going to give you a

54:03

huge introduction next time. Alright, well I look forward

54:05

to that. An embarrassing... Did you get it happen

54:08

live? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No way. I'll

54:10

hold you for that. But anyway, no, no, I mean

54:12

it's been a lovely episode. We should continue, we should

54:14

definitely go to the Telegraph

54:16

pub, which is the

54:19

closest pub to

54:21

the highest point in Wandsworth, so it would be like our

54:23

little Alp duet. Whereas in fact

54:25

the highest point in Wandsworth is indeed called

54:28

the Putney Out, which is on Putney

54:30

Heath. Is it? Yeah. Wow,

54:33

there you go. We'll find us there next time. Thank you

54:35

for joining us everybody. The Psych'n Podcast was created in

54:41

2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Fried and Lionel Burney.

54:54

Thanks for watching. Please subscribe and hit the bell icon. Thank you

54:56

for watching.