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You're listening to Arrive by

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the Cycling Podcast. This

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episode is made possible by

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Bicycle, the leading global marketplace

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for pre-owned bikes. It

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is over for another year.

0:28

You don't have to watch Fleshwell on,

0:31

the Arctic Race of Belgium, the

0:33

uphill, the upside down cheese roll again

0:36

for another 364 days. I'm

0:39

being facetious. This was a good

0:41

edition of Fleshwell on, an unusually

0:43

good edition of Fleshwell on here

0:47

with me to discuss it and review

0:49

it. Young

0:51

Richard Abraham. Richard, how are you? I'm Daniel,

0:53

how are you? I'm all right. How are

0:55

you? You look... It was a good edition.

0:58

It was a good edition. We'll discuss why

1:00

we'll tell the listeners why in due course

1:02

you certainly look warmer and more

1:04

comfortable than the riders coming over the

1:06

line in Fleshwell on

1:09

today. Not hard. Not

1:11

hard, is it? Maybe I need to go

1:13

and do 199 kilometers in that and then

1:15

you can stop calling me young because it

1:17

was a bit like one of those aging

1:20

filters, wasn't it? And you see the riders coming

1:22

across the line. They've gained

1:24

25 years, I think, in the course of

1:26

four and a bit hours, whatever it was

1:28

in the end. Yes, very much so, Richard.

1:31

I was reminded you are too young,

1:33

being young Richard Abraham, you are too young

1:35

to remember the 1999 edition

1:37

of Fleshwell on, which

1:40

is the one that today's brought

1:42

to mind, certainly for me, when

1:44

I was watching one by Michaela

1:47

Bartoli for Mapei.

1:49

He had just joined Mapei. And

1:52

he attacked with 80 kilometers to go. For

1:55

a long time that day, he

1:57

was with Oscar Kamenzen, the Swiss

1:59

rider. from a Swiss national champion and

2:01

he dropped Camus in after Camus in had

2:03

a lot of difficulty zipping

2:06

up his rain

2:08

jacket. Everyone

2:11

else behind them had

2:13

already been frozen literally out of contention Camus

2:16

in the last man standing but he came

2:18

a cropper because his hands were too

2:20

numb to do a piece of zip.

2:22

I was reading some reports from that

2:24

edition earlier today and lots of riders

2:26

David A. Rebelin the late, David A.

2:28

Rebelin complaining about not

2:30

being able to eat even it was so

2:33

cold he couldn't even bring a panino to

2:35

his mouth. I would

2:37

dare say there were other riders in

2:39

a similar position today and certainly other

2:41

riders who struggled with

2:44

jackets, garments, certainly struggled with

2:46

keeping warm. Richard have

2:49

you seen the video

2:51

just come out of Matthias

2:53

Skelnoser when he's coming

2:55

off the race? Have you seen that?

2:57

I live here by the name of the four.

3:00

Shaking uncontrollably. I hope he's alright.

3:03

Yeah quite amazing really. I mean

3:06

Skelnoser, one of those riders who

3:08

very low body fat percentage probably

3:10

not predisposed to cold

3:12

necessarily although Stevie Williams arguably the

3:14

same will get onto him I

3:16

suppose. Yeah

3:20

quite sort of something to

3:22

behold actually. Really you know probably

3:24

just couldn't ride his bike anymore shaking that

3:27

much. Richard Skelnoser

3:30

you've just mentioned and who have

3:32

fortunately pulled out of the race

3:34

was one of the favourites for

3:36

today's race and that I suppose

3:38

is an appropriate note upon which

3:40

to start a round up of

3:42

what happened today tell those who

3:44

didn't see it what happened in

3:47

flesh run on. Today it was

3:49

the 88th edition of

3:51

what I facetiously refer to as

3:53

the upside down cheese roll of

3:55

the Ardennes or as I termed

3:57

it today the Arctic race of

3:59

Belgium. otherwise known

4:01

as Flesch-Welon. 198

4:05

kilometers started from

4:07

Charleur. The favorites

4:10

this morning one would have said

4:13

Tom Pitcock, Schalmer's himself we

4:15

just mentioned Richard Carapaz, David

4:19

Godue, Benoit Kuzneff, Mark

4:21

Heeshe, Alexander

4:23

Vlasov, Kevin Wuchlan, Dylan

4:25

Terns, Santiago Buetrago,

4:28

Tobias Johansson. They

4:30

were a few of the names we were conjuring

4:32

with this morning when thinking who might win this

4:34

edition of Flesch-Welon.

4:38

The weather at the start wasn't too

4:40

bad. A six-man group got

4:42

off down the road fairly early. The

4:44

first 15 kilometers, most significant names in

4:47

that were Lillian Calmajan of Antar Marche

4:49

and I would say Jimmy Whelan of

4:53

Q36.5. They got

4:55

a pretty healthy gap fairly

4:57

quickly. That gap stretched to

4:59

over four minutes, but

5:02

it would come down as the temperatures

5:04

also came down, as they also dropped.

5:06

In fact, the temperature would drop about

5:08

five degrees in the second hour of

5:11

racing and well

5:14

the breakaway didn't last too much longer. The

5:16

last representative of that breakaway was caught with

5:18

about 70 kilometers to go and

5:20

that was around the point at which we

5:22

became aware just how much some of the

5:24

big names, some of the guys who were

5:26

favorites to win this race, were struggling. We

5:28

saw Leite Peobilbao drop

5:30

Mark Heeshe, Schkelmose himself, Pitcock,

5:32

Maori, Van Severnen. It was

5:34

quite difficult at some moment

5:37

at this point in the race to know

5:40

who was getting dropped, who was really suffering,

5:42

who was just going back for a change

5:44

of clothes, maybe some hot tea. There

5:47

were a few riders who looked down and

5:49

out but then reappeared. Tish Benoutz was one

5:51

of them. Benoutz, I should have said, well

5:54

he was one of the favorites for today's

5:57

race and he had had an eventful evening.

6:00

how we say, or nights because his partner

6:02

gave birth to I think their second

6:04

baby in the

6:06

hours before the race. Yet he's

6:08

still lined up today. So

6:11

as I said, some big names getting

6:13

dropped went around 70 kilometres to go.

6:15

Schalmers, as we mentioned, abandoned shortly thereafter.

6:18

At 59 kilometres to go, Søren Kraut-Anderson

6:20

of Alpecin-De-Kurning attack immediately started opening up

6:22

a gap that would eventually stretch to

6:24

over a minute. A few

6:26

kilometres later, another Scandinavian rider, Marcus

6:29

Hulgard, gave

6:32

chase to Norwegian for Uno X,

6:34

but his break weight lasted a few other 10

6:36

kilometres. Søren Kraut didn't lose a

6:39

lot of time on the penultimate ascent of

6:41

the Mjord de Huy, well that's the second

6:43

time up the Mjord de Huy, with 31

6:45

kilometres to go. Meanwhile,

6:49

there were a few moves

6:52

in the peloton behind, Buterag or

6:54

Carapard, Wücla,

6:56

Williams and van Hils

6:58

just detaching themselves, particularly Williams. This

7:01

was a key moment in the

7:03

race because Williams got a relatively

7:05

significant gap on those

7:08

riders I've just mentioned and it looked

7:10

at one point as though he

7:12

was going to set off alone in

7:14

pursuit of Søren Kraut-Anderson, but he desisted,

7:16

didn't he? And that was a wise

7:18

decision. He went

7:21

back to the Buterag

7:23

group and they themselves

7:26

were caught with

7:28

about 16 kilometres to go. At

7:31

this point, Søren Kraut-Anderson was, well around

7:33

about this point, Søren Kraut-Anderson was also

7:36

caught and we

7:38

got a scenario that was pretty

7:40

familiar for inveterate watches

7:43

of Fleschwellen, albeit Richard,

7:45

with a smaller group than

7:48

we have seen in the past coming

7:51

into Huy, but Richard

7:53

it led me to the conclusion that, well,

7:56

temperatures would have needed to be

7:58

somewhat Lower. It

8:00

would have needed to freeze over

8:02

before we saw a different scenario.

8:04

in flatulence crazy I looked at

8:06

him equivalent some alternatives to help

8:08

freezing ever different languages. Crazy face

8:10

will whistle on the top of

8:12

the hail, Stones will fly, Pigs

8:14

will climb trees, some will rise

8:16

in the west. France will grow

8:18

hair before we see a breakaway

8:20

succeed. You know you know what

8:22

at an owner? Don't spoil the.

8:25

Spoil. The surprise that we're building sepa

8:27

in wells know they say it's raining

8:29

or old women and sticks. If

8:33

I have a would rate it would have the

8:35

rain old women and steaks or oh that is

8:37

the bazaars and ran for. You know when you

8:40

say of winning the she says raining cats and

8:42

dogs out and Wales is the across the border

8:44

for me it's and so women sticks coming down

8:46

up and that was from the think that. That.

8:49

Was what we saw. One, it. Just that

8:51

figuratively visiting that that doesn't describe

8:53

this of in probability of them

8:56

are of us and I are

8:58

different from normally sorted I am

9:00

I on twitter it's was flesh.

9:02

Rounds will power and resisting break

9:04

for a living flesh will on

9:06

should give up being a bike

9:08

race and not a star. Stoicism

9:10

podcasts says remarkable willpower in that

9:12

regard. This rigid z appeal to

9:14

draw the sprints the up hill

9:16

sprints arm it was a cagey

9:18

one wasn't a I think mainly

9:20

because. The riders at this point where

9:22

most of them were. Written suffering

9:25

in the code and no

9:27

one hot really made them

9:30

move until. Stephen. Williams

9:32

accelerated with around three hundred meters

9:34

to Guts and Kit Daylights was

9:36

opened up or he opened of

9:38

clear day like pretty quick plates

9:40

and with a bit of hesitation

9:43

before Voeckler in particular gave chase

9:45

on Williams. By that point had

9:47

a healthy lead. he he was

9:49

looking over his shoulder he looked

9:51

ever shown a four five times.

9:54

I think this for a cross

9:56

the line but he's just managed

9:58

to hold on. They've of

10:00

Voeckler who did come in second

10:02

am in third place was maxi

10:05

months heels of lotto destiny it's

10:07

fourth place been what causes of

10:09

law says Fan Bhutan I go

10:11

six yeah Harmison some Craig well

10:13

I've got all night but notes

10:16

and temp job must pass and

10:18

Williams becomes first British fried it

10:20

to wean flesh when on Richards

10:22

and you will have noticed where

10:24

you notice five French riders in

10:27

the top ten, nine Fridge Mint

10:29

in the top twenty. And maybe

10:31

we'll talk a bit later about

10:33

what that says about the state

10:35

of France cycling com and also

10:38

love Norwegians. Well yeah that was

10:40

a ghost finish as other than

10:42

as a bus another theme in

10:44

or x his promise who is

10:46

another theme and nothing the best.

10:49

talking about this, I'm. Good.

10:51

Day for the French. Wrong Dice Vitale.

10:53

It's absolutely wrong. Days of itunes Again,

10:55

a reflection on the current state of

10:57

Italians. Like it's first, Italian was dirty,

11:00

former or in twenty fourth place. And

11:02

this is a a nation Italy. And

11:04

they would five times in a room

11:06

from Nineteen Ninety Eight when five times

11:08

in the first decade of the century

11:10

is worthless. Well, it's a race that

11:12

they generally succeeded in. Not to de

11:14

amor one more little nugget. Richard The

11:17

speaks to how brutal today was. Only

11:19

forty Four finishes out of one hundred.

11:21

And seventy five starters as compared

11:23

with one hundred forty seven. Finishes

11:26

last year, hundred Forty the previous year,

11:28

and so on. and so on. Your

11:31

reynolds he sees rolling Metaphor was really

11:33

coming under last train today was an

11:35

attorney or so that had a breakaway

11:37

stayed away it would as then. You

11:40

know that my she's willing to

11:42

frantic isn't It is a so

11:44

of like gravity gravity do the

11:46

work. and but it was. It

11:48

was slow motion. With Stephen Williams

11:50

anyone really who counted seize the

11:52

initiative of yeah and the merely.

11:55

The What We say that this race that was played

11:57

out in exactly the same way on the last. The

12:00

always looks pretty much the same

12:02

with different complicated. however there are

12:04

there are occasions there are additions

12:06

when it looks more like a

12:08

slow motion bugs bring on. There

12:10

are other times when it looks

12:12

of the civil manner of the

12:14

attack. The when he attack is

12:16

that have a sort of a

12:19

kind of typical climbers attack. A

12:21

kind of a rangy sort of

12:23

Rate is smooth. I'm and Williams.

12:26

Decisive. A type because as

12:28

we said earlier, he also touch

12:30

on the penultimate percent of the

12:33

mildew we was in that vein.

12:35

today, it's parts but as we.

12:38

As. We pointed out we gave my throne

12:40

is do It was an exciting editions I'm

12:42

Richard. After. Show break come

12:44

back to discuss are we so. You're

12:48

listening to a he's a side of cycling

12:50

suit against. This

12:53

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13:14

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16:02

Richard, we haven't even

16:04

finished this podcast and you have

16:07

me turning off

16:09

towards Corrections Corner rightfully so rightfully so because

16:12

I said Stephen Williams was the

16:14

first British rider to win Fleshwell on of

16:16

course me in the men's edition of Fleshwell

16:18

on. He wouldn't

16:21

be the first rider to win. No, Nicole

16:23

Cook. Let me just see. I want to.

16:25

Three wins for Nicole Cook and a win

16:27

for Emma Pooley as well. So

16:30

British riders have been very

16:33

successful in the women's edition of Fleshwell on. The

16:35

women's edition of course still going on as we

16:37

speak as we record. There will

16:39

be an Arivé episode

16:42

documenting that chronicling that as

16:45

well. Richard

16:48

Stephen Williams we did talk about

16:51

him in some detail earlier in the year

16:53

when he won Tour Down Under of course

16:56

that was his first, if I'm not mistaken,

16:58

that was his first World Tour stage race

17:00

victory. He won a Mount Lofty on the

17:02

last day and he won the

17:04

general classification and we talked about his

17:06

travails, the difficulties he had

17:09

particularly at the start of his

17:11

career. He had a very successful,

17:13

particularly last year as an amateur,

17:15

he was very much sort of

17:17

touted or tipped for great things

17:19

when he turned professional in 2019 and had

17:21

an absolutely rotten

17:24

first year as a

17:26

professional with the injury

17:28

and it was one of these injuries whereby

17:30

the problem, well it took a very

17:33

long time to diagnose the problem and

17:36

everyone, he included, he more than

17:38

anyone was scratching their heads for

17:40

a long time and he finally

17:42

was able to resolve that problem.

17:44

But today given

17:46

the conditions that he Accomplished

17:49

this victory, my mind, my thoughts

17:51

went back to one of the

17:54

first times I Encountered him at

17:56

a World Tour race, was at

17:58

the Huerta España in. He

18:00

twenty with this of cove it

18:03

was I by New October, Twenty

18:05

Twenty Richards and the we were

18:07

on our parking lot in your

18:09

own. In the

18:11

Basque Country. Three.

18:14

British rise run for bar a victorious

18:16

theme. Williams was sort of on the

18:18

comeback trail by even is twenty twenty

18:20

season have been difficult on them. It

18:23

was one of those occasions where he

18:25

says listen to him and and look

18:27

to this guy and he says. Look.

18:30

To the trajectory of his career until that

18:32

point I need a new almost felt sorry

18:35

for him and youth of I am. You

18:37

know he didn't have to keep great well

18:39

so I'm over the next of ten. Days.

18:42

And much or hollowing lost it's a you

18:44

sort of looked him in thought my not

18:46

sure how much longer this guy is gonna

18:48

be around and as we said in January

18:50

I think when he did win the tour

18:52

down under us am I think he owed

18:54

a lot of that point of wrote adding

18:56

worth who of course was to some team

18:58

principal a bar and about time is Bari

19:00

Mclaren was now that time I think this

19:02

on them he said of gays team will

19:04

use a vote of confidence gave him another

19:06

contract and them are not sure how many

19:08

other well teams would have had the same

19:10

patients at that point. I come in

19:12

the Stevie coming through and he was like

19:15

it under twenty three and talks about his

19:17

kind of in the next top prospect at

19:19

a time when Britain was returning them out

19:21

and and then. Ton. Is almost

19:23

instantly became a at a reminder or a

19:26

signifier of just how fragile and precarious the

19:28

that of career or the potential career arc

19:30

of a young price like as contain a

19:32

blighted by injury say on. And then I

19:34

think it was was at twenty twenty three

19:37

of the stars Twenty twenty three when they're

19:39

that be in the hotels team that wasn't

19:41

think he was caught up in that he

19:43

was handed a one year deal to Israel

19:45

A Police So yeah. I

19:50

think site think sites and.

19:52

And and after these I think I

19:54

figure I actually yes I think it's

19:57

ringing bells. The and and and so

19:59

have landed with. Not with Israel

20:01

that yeah and then has been rewarded with

20:03

voice go another year remaining on his contract

20:05

and none Well they've been rewarded for their

20:07

faith in him. Really? Because and. Scared.

20:10

Is what to get a seat as he

20:12

see it that oxy race of no way

20:15

that year and then and then tore down

20:17

under the Cia and and then a there's

20:19

a Source tendencies may be pressed Her think

20:21

this. When someone hasn't

20:23

shown it by Boise now. twenty

20:25

seven. You know kind of says

20:28

Mr. Shop that still it's nice to see

20:30

that there's still space for people to to

20:32

develop and grow into careers. and and and

20:34

not you know is guess I think some

20:36

of my Tv as well. See

20:39

times. I did interview him and was came across as a

20:42

very nice go in. and

20:44

like nice to see him get that

20:46

opportunity a think that the an injury

20:48

it. And non out? Yeah! Yeah.

20:51

A diverse our either as wow I'm

20:54

up for so long so he when

20:56

you basically when you look is results

20:58

the results you how does not much

21:00

you might think he's a really quite

21:02

a pure climb up on You might

21:05

have thought that point the he was

21:07

going to be someone he would be

21:09

contending for mountain stages in the world

21:11

saw. However, odds

21:14

day what we've seen and and we've

21:16

seen a lot of this from him

21:18

when he has been successful as or

21:20

three four years am. ease. In.

21:22

Spite of his be owed which he's

21:24

a lot of a sort of ah

21:26

why described was a kind of range

21:29

climate nice am he's quite explosive and

21:31

he's quite fast. ah I'm the races

21:33

like the are and to see him

21:35

very well I'm in fact he did

21:37

talk about the ah the classics when

21:40

he won tore down on the in

21:42

January and he said these were be

21:44

objective Israel of course had a couple

21:46

of cars today that didn't terms as

21:48

well and lot of as we're paying

21:50

more web were quite hopeful for. on

21:53

behalf of the interns because he

21:55

when miss Rice costs and twenty

21:57

twenty two but he seems to

21:59

be struggling. The early on I

22:01

think I mentioned mentioned.in the round up

22:03

he was one of those riders his

22:05

around about the point at which wow

22:07

the conditions got really bad. Toads was

22:09

one of the the big names that

22:11

we source of disappearing out the back.

22:13

yeah that's that's a far as. Williams

22:16

is when as well he so did so

22:18

without a team I mean a lot of

22:20

writers were riding their it towards the the

22:22

last and thirty kilometers also without teammates or

22:24

with only one as they did have anybody

22:27

unless of course you are on is a

22:29

you know experts on us and finished and.

22:32

He did has done tones former winner on

22:35

his team rakes a burger I think was

22:37

in the scene com one of the team

22:39

causal peanuts from as post director on Israel

22:41

who is a past winner. Of

22:44

this race has got a lot of experience down. Israel,

22:46

and and. That

22:50

said, It. It was

22:52

kind is. It was notable how

22:54

Williams is having still by itself.

22:59

Yes, The

23:01

word. Teams. That were

23:03

very well represented to wane them right

23:06

as did start falling away as a

23:08

say rivers. So sixty seventy comes to

23:10

go if education first had and numbers

23:12

have big numbers once they'd been he

23:15

leaves a lot of work for it's

23:17

counterparts. And then we saw the Norwegians

23:19

in putting a with it. it does

23:21

the Scandinavians. The Nordic riders comes to

23:24

the fourth am in the shape in

23:26

the form of the you know x

23:28

teams on a was fate to be

23:30

as yeah innocence and with that leaders.

23:33

say did i say for his fifth

23:35

or sixth ah i'm are you sit

23:37

here and i'm sick i did hear

23:39

any to him at the end of

23:41

p m and race and he was

23:43

sort of very understated about how cold

23:45

it be always was quite caused ah

23:48

but they made no bones about he

23:50

almost made a joke or of the

23:52

fact that as they felt the temperature

23:54

drop they knew they were all very

23:56

well aware that was didn't need to

23:58

say to each other knowledge to each

24:00

other that they were going to

24:03

be at an advantage because I

24:05

think it's more than just a

24:07

sort of regional kind of national

24:09

stereotype in cycling that the Norwegian

24:11

riders and the Danish riders, they

24:13

do tend to revel in

24:16

this kind of condition. It's true in

24:18

a lot of cases. And it bears repeating how

24:20

other riders really don't revel in it. The

24:23

cold can do strange things to people, can't it? Not just

24:25

the sense of kind of shivering and feeling

24:28

cold, but you forget to eat, you forget

24:30

to drink, or you don't feel like drinking.

24:32

You're not sure how to layer what clothes

24:34

to wear. You're taking jackets off, you're putting jackets

24:36

back on. And I think it,

24:38

I don't know, if you're a rider who

24:40

spends your winter somewhere like Girona or even,

24:42

you know, you go back down under if

24:44

you're Antipodean, you know, you spend a lot

24:46

of time in hot weather and you wouldn't

24:48

necessarily choose to race in this. I

24:51

think it's kind

24:53

of obvious, but it does give riders an advantage, doesn't

24:55

it? It's just an inherent kind of understanding and not

24:58

even having to think about how to behave or how

25:00

to race in those conditions. You just do it. Richard,

25:04

one of the reasons we do malign the flesh

25:06

well on is that, at least

25:08

on the face of things, you tend

25:11

to get

25:13

to the end or you tend to

25:16

watch the condition of flesh well on

25:18

and think that tactics have had minimal,

25:20

the kind of tactical permutations have had

25:22

a minimal impact on the last, the

25:24

decisive last kilometre and a

25:26

half. It always just seems as though the

25:29

strongest guy or the fastest guy up that

25:31

hill, up the Milne-Huy wins

25:34

and the previous 197

25:37

kilometres are pretty

25:39

irrelevant. One could make that

25:41

argument about today. Obviously, you

25:44

know, there's an economy of riding flesh

25:46

well on and you do have to

25:48

save energy throughout the day and that

25:50

definitely, I'm sure, feeds into who then

25:52

is the fastest up the Milne-Huy. However,

25:55

another thing I would say is that

25:57

the untold story of today's was

26:00

won and why it was won by the rider that it was,

26:02

I would

26:04

suggest could only be told by people who

26:06

were sat in teen cars today because they

26:08

will know and they would be able to

26:11

tell you exactly how

26:13

such and such a rider covered

26:16

up, protected themselves from

26:18

the rain, made

26:20

sure they were eating, made sure they

26:22

were drinking. I would suggest that those

26:24

were the keys today as well as

26:26

something very mundane and something we probably

26:28

won't hear about because there are too

26:30

many vested interests but which teens have

26:32

good wet weather gear? Yeah I

26:35

was just about to say and not just

26:37

a matter of how warm

26:39

they keep you or how dry they keep you

26:41

but also aerodynamics. One thing I did notice was

26:43

how Stevie Williams' jacket

26:45

was extremely aerodynamic and there was

26:47

a point where he was riding

26:49

with Santiago Butrago from Bahrain and

26:53

Butrago looked like he had some kind of

26:55

vintage 90s Patagonia fleece on

26:57

sort of underneath his walkway. It

26:59

could have been aerodynamic, could have

27:01

been deceptively aerodynamic.

27:06

That's true, only going by eye,

27:08

by my wind tunnel eyes. You

27:10

should start offering your services to

27:12

world court teams, armchair

27:15

aerodynamics. You've already been

27:17

around the CTTs, the

27:19

domestic time trialling scene, I might not even

27:21

have to leave the UK. I

27:25

think that's part of it as well. It's

27:31

interesting isn't it, there's still a divide

27:33

there. I remember

27:36

when did the gabber make its debut? Is it

27:38

2010 around then? That

27:41

sort of time. You were talking to the wrong

27:43

guy. I don't know, you're a telly of fire

27:45

aren't you? This is a Castelli garment. That

27:48

was kind of a game changer wasn't it because it was

27:51

the opposite of the sort of boil in the bag in

27:54

line thing that people had been wearing up to that point.

27:57

But there is still a variety this time. still

28:01

a difference in quality

28:05

is the wrong word. Well yeah, I

28:07

mean again you tend to hear this kind

28:09

of thing where you do hear this thing

28:11

off the record from riders. I've heard about

28:13

teams before. Teams you wouldn't necessarily expect for

28:15

example Belgian teams. There's one Belgian team whose

28:17

riders were very unhappy with their wet weather,

28:19

cold weather gear a few years ago mainly

28:22

because it took on so much water and

28:24

it became very heavy. But

28:27

this is not any kind of comment

28:29

on Little Trek's wet weather gear. However

28:32

to see riders as cold as

28:34

they were as some riders like Schkelmoser

28:38

were at the end of today's race

28:40

in 2020, it's quite surprising isn't it?

28:44

And it happens a lot. If you

28:46

go to a lot of races which I

28:49

obviously do and I have to interview riders

28:51

at the end of races a lot of

28:53

the time, this

28:55

is a very very common occurrence

28:58

that you see riders, their teeth

29:00

chattering and they are absolutely freezing

29:02

cold. There is something in the

29:05

very nature of cycling that makes

29:08

it very hard to avoid that kind of situation.

29:10

You know sort of you're sitting with large

29:13

parts of your body not doing anything for three

29:16

hours in the cold and

29:18

wet three four five six hours. But

29:23

when you think that teams particularly

29:25

over the last three or four

29:27

years have redoubled their efforts in

29:29

terms of warm weather training,

29:32

heat adaptation, in

29:36

the average season the world probably would

29:39

be I would guess five to

29:41

ten days when these questions

29:43

like the one we're sort

29:45

of rhetorically asking now become

29:47

absolutely key. But you

29:50

wonder what kind of investment is

29:53

being made into finding

29:55

out more about how to keep riders

29:57

warm and on the part

30:00

of the manufacturers themselves. It's

30:02

interesting, while I was watching it I was thinking, well

30:05

where's Mathieu van der Poel watching this?

30:07

You know, by the pool in Spain.

30:10

Where's Tadej Bogarcia? Is he still at altitude? Van

30:12

der Poel is by the pool. Served

30:16

you that, didn't I? Yeah. You

30:20

knocked that one out of the park. Probably thinking,

30:22

yeah, that was a good call, not doing Fliesz-Woll-On.

30:25

Have you seen the forecast for the weekend? It's not

30:27

going to be that much different. 10

30:30

degrees, scattered showers, both of them are going to

30:32

be racing. Yeah, of course the

30:34

range will last two hours longer. Quite.

30:37

And doesn't loop round as much.

30:39

There's a sort of logistical

30:43

element, is there in flesh where

30:45

you're doing loops and so you

30:47

have perhaps more, I'm assuming common sense

30:49

with Dictate you've got more opportunity to see a

30:51

team member of staff and support. After

30:54

Richard A Brown, armchair aerodynamics,

30:56

Richard A Brown armchair, thermo.

31:00

Logistics manager. Going in a circle. If

31:03

ever you want to stay warm, just keep

31:05

doing the circle. Just write. Yeah, just do

31:07

what you did in lockdown. I did see

31:09

actually Israel were advertising for a logistics manager

31:13

based out of Girona the other day.

31:16

Maybe I'm putting my name forward into

31:18

that. Yeah,

31:21

I mean, well, we don't need

31:23

to sort of speculate too much

31:25

about the age, but I think we're looking at

31:27

something slightly similar there. Yes.

31:29

And as you say, Richard, that

31:31

decision by Poggiache not to come

31:33

and defend his title at flesh,

31:35

well on today on

31:39

Wednesday afternoon looks like a pretty smart one.

31:41

Yeah, I mean UAE had a strong spot,

31:43

but no finishes for them, nor for any

31:45

else. In fact, they are not sure exactly

31:47

when they climbed off, but you know, the

31:49

reason they did that was

31:52

probably with an eye on Liège.

31:54

They saw this little point in

31:56

continuing on. Richard,

31:58

I haven't been at race first. to three

32:00

weeks but I don't have

32:02

the sense that illness has ravaged the

32:05

peloton, is ravaging the peloton, sort of

32:07

seasonal illness, it's cold, it's flute in

32:09

the same way that it has done

32:11

over the last couple of years. But

32:14

if we do start to

32:16

see or if we get another few

32:18

days with conditions like we saw today

32:20

then that might be something

32:23

we see in the run-up to the

32:25

Girodizalja in a couple of weeks time.

32:28

I didn't watch the state of the Tour of the Alps today but

32:30

the weather there had been okay

32:33

before today, it was supposed to

32:35

have deteriorated overnight. It

32:38

looked, well what I will say

32:40

is I'll use that favourite word

32:42

of our Francophone colleague Dontesk, how

32:45

many times are we going to see that in

32:47

the reports of the race? It did look similarly

32:50

kind of wet and cold over in the Alps.

32:56

So who knows, we could see the age of

32:58

Bastogne's, well that's sort of 1980, shades of Delna

33:03

Ino in 1980 which, what did it,

33:05

did it cost, you know it didn't

33:07

cost him a finger but it cost him the

33:09

movement. Cost him yeah sensation in his fingers wasn't

33:11

it I think. Yeah I think so. Hopefully

33:14

not, hopefully not that's all I

33:16

can say. Richard I mentioned, well

33:18

talking about Delna Ino, I mentioned

33:20

this very very strong French performance

33:22

today and this is something that's

33:24

kind of gone under the radar

33:26

I suppose the rising tide in

33:28

French cycling. I

33:31

think when and this

33:33

is sort of significant because I think it

33:36

is a bit of a watershed, people have

33:38

talked about this, the Pinot generation, the Balde

33:40

generation is fading, well

33:42

Pinot of course retired at the end of

33:45

last year, Hormon Balde, this could be

33:47

his last year we know about

33:49

as you know Alaphilippe's difficulties, it's

33:51

sort of and the, well he's

33:54

sort of fight against father time

33:57

so to speak and he's part of that, well

33:59

it was. talked about as a

34:01

golden French generation at the time wasn't it

34:03

and it we really we did

34:06

hike that generation partly because we hadn't seen

34:08

anything like that for a long time in

34:10

French cycling. French cycling had been in

34:12

the doldrums for 10 plus years

34:15

when the likes of Pino came onto the scene. So

34:19

over the last 10 years we've

34:21

seen those guys I mentioned but

34:24

we've seen a sort of steady

34:26

stream of competitive French riders. I

34:28

mentioned Cos-Ne-Froix earlier he's in the

34:30

sort of intermediate generation. However those

34:33

nine Frenchmen in the top 20 among

34:36

them are some guys we'll probably be

34:38

seeing at the pointy end of races

34:40

for a long time and things are

34:42

looking pretty healthy I would suggest. Yeah

34:47

Kevin Volkline second I was looking through his

34:49

results kind of I think

34:51

there's a temptation I kind of apologize

34:54

for this temptation but you

34:56

know every now and again RK of B&B his

34:58

team kind of throw a rider in a top

35:00

10 but it's always a

35:03

different rider and I think you sort

35:05

of become slightly that's

35:08

how to put this in a sort of kind way but it

35:11

doesn't always one swallow one

35:14

RK of B&B swallow doesn't signify spring if

35:16

you know I mean. Yeah but

35:18

Volkline. Well

35:20

this is it. Volkline you

35:23

know I'd sort of seen okay

35:25

this guy's come second and then you

35:27

see eighth in the Basque Country GC

35:29

tenth Tirreno second Etouardobisage.

35:34

So yeah last year

35:36

even last year at the start of last year in

35:38

particular he had some

35:40

really excellent results. But

35:43

I mean do you see anyone Daniel who's

35:46

got that sort of star quality I

35:48

suppose that can you know shoulder up

35:50

with the Super 6 or whatever

35:52

they call them now. Well Possibly

35:54

not I think I suppose the interesting thing

35:56

maybe a regrettable thing from French point of

35:59

view at the moment. Them and is that there

36:01

is no and nothing ever nice One going to

36:03

say there is no obvious candidate. And

36:05

when it's on from I'm I'm this drought

36:07

stretching back to down I know much new

36:09

a minute Ghosts last for instance when it's

36:12

on France in Nineteen Eighty Five we talked

36:14

and we a know regular part about Tom

36:16

Paid talk and his chance of winning. The

36:20

Toyota frauds and British riders chances of

36:22

winning So different and much of the

36:24

same way. I said in that episode

36:26

that they've either there is this wave

36:29

of rise, over a dozen British rises

36:31

arm and will be more. you know

36:33

it's maybe twenty or thirty. Of them

36:35

will sort of slowly drift into the

36:38

World Tour over the next year's and

36:40

among them the will be three or

36:42

four who at some stage of showing

36:45

that creates will be touted as feature

36:47

grant or when it's and I think

36:49

it's probably the same with the French.

36:52

As a moment I don't necessarily see

36:54

anyone am obviously Lenny Machinists Ah has

36:56

had good results in stage races and

36:59

we are when mountain stages of showing

37:01

grand tours and again it's. An

37:04

people can stop the com wait taste.

37:06

I've got weights obsession. I'm off the

37:08

last week of release Gusto Pump it

37:11

goes to Lights piru base. there was

37:13

another one else had Vanderpool too heavy

37:15

for the as bus Tony's i'm Lenny

37:17

Martinez I think is a bit light

37:20

for a Tour de France. when I'm

37:22

from gonna we'll out my expert aerodynamic

37:24

high as well or not an usher

37:26

Secessionists I don't want any Martinez ways

37:29

but just our without him and face.

37:31

Try lonely this as an aerodynamic time

37:33

Try. This. On

37:35

a Cab iron on Amazon. Cannot

37:38

wait to is T Lights in

37:40

a Southerner on I We didn't

37:42

need to do anything if you

37:45

have a very successful career but

37:47

I'm just not showed a to

37:49

cease to France when us. Unless

37:52

unless I'm Richard I'm You know,

37:54

twenty years ago we wouldn't necessarily

37:56

have predicted the grand tour organizes

37:59

would have. The rationalize time trawling in

38:01

the way they have and at war

38:03

they would have sort of and try

38:05

to almost phase out time trawling. You

38:08

know he was very unusual. It would have

38:10

been conceived is very usable. Fifty years ago

38:12

if the France didn't have a forty fifty

38:15

six times tonto and now we never see

38:17

those and that has changed the nature of

38:19

or thus thus chains this question of who

38:21

can win grant or so who knows And

38:24

as these it reminds me. I had a

38:26

conversation with Cherry gave a new the Race

38:28

Director of the Total France at. Perry nice

38:30

because the thirteenth on trial in tiny

38:33

switches bit of a rarity into and

38:35

twenty four and and his logic was

38:37

well, if we thrown its time trial,

38:39

especially in a weeklong stage race, we

38:42

just get gaps that forty big soap.

38:44

The team time trial is because of

38:46

that sex. thinking. About the

38:48

tour they are very much

38:50

aware say are so that.

38:53

You know that is a is a

38:55

throw in too much time trawling as

38:58

distances and neutralize the race I given

39:00

point you know when it and it

39:02

and wanted to be sites as not

39:05

to say they're gonna throw in a

39:07

in a kind of any martinez tool.

39:10

Or to design a park or for survival.

39:12

I can put this anywhere that. Yes,

39:15

Yes! Indeed,

39:18

it or anyone any one and

39:20

sort of France scene and issue

39:22

or this among these emerging French

39:24

Fry disease and sees a sense

39:27

of it's it's sort of France

39:29

winner own emigrants who when a.

39:33

Good. Question. Showing

39:36

me more so we live on his show me

39:38

what average it. As for that. Yes,

39:41

Am totally about Stephen Williams difficulties

39:44

of teething problems as a professional

39:46

Cyprus next week we have got

39:48

I was going to kill me

39:51

to zero coming out next week.

39:53

so that's for friends of the

39:55

cycling podcasts. What used to be

39:58

Frightened Special Now that. The

40:00

code kilometer zero Am if you

40:02

are a friend fucking put as

40:04

you can listen to those com

40:07

there is on your what's friends

40:09

C D M got to come

40:11

out next week long. We heard

40:13

a bit about on from in

40:15

our regret So that is how

40:18

to become an expert Cyclists on

40:20

his some Joe Dombrowski retirement stories.

40:22

The other one is how to

40:24

become a pro Cyclist and this

40:27

one tells the story of a

40:29

Canadian gentlemen. Could just burke feet

40:31

he might not notice too much

40:34

about but he has a very

40:36

fascinating story that he a little

40:38

bit from episode which will come

40:41

out early next week. now showing.

40:44

Most of us have a vision of

40:46

how one gets to become a professional

40:48

writer. He goes something like start cycling

40:51

probably on a bike gifted for birthday

40:53

or Christmas or perhaps handed down when

40:55

enough age group races to get noticed

40:58

by national federation or top amateur set

41:00

up and carry on winning until a

41:02

well taught team throws open the doors

41:05

that initial childhood dream on the face

41:07

of it. Same basing your research purely

41:09

on pro cycling stats. Toronto born Jack

41:12

Birds Path didn't look dramatically different. Until

41:14

the final hurdle of that big league

41:16

breakthrough. But. As with so many

41:18

things, the devil is in the detail. Books.

41:21

Journey could would in most cases have

41:23

ended with a positive test at age

41:25

eighteen but as you're about to find

41:27

out spurts was not most cases he

41:30

would force resolve that his feud him

41:32

for the last decade on a quest

41:34

the he still considers incomplete. It's which

41:36

he has dedicated a book which is

41:38

part rip roaring memoir pot Manual not

41:41

only for cycling but also life the

41:43

title of the books How To Become

41:45

A Pro Cyclist When I started it

41:47

was just supposed to be the facts

41:49

I wanted to make. It like. Not.

41:52

a book but like of training tool kit i wanted

41:54

to combine the table of contents with the glossary so

41:56

i wanted to have a lot of chapters to make

41:58

it easy to find a wanted to build it

42:00

in a way where you can revisit specific chapters

42:02

throughout your career. I want to find something about

42:05

heat training, about altitude training, about motor pacing. This

42:07

was an inspirational story. Here's a podcast with

42:10

Sepcuss. Here's one with Alice and Jack. All

42:12

these different tools, I think there's 124 chapters

42:15

in the book and some of them are

42:17

very short and small, but I did that

42:19

just because I wanted it to be easy

42:21

to find specific information just for somebody to

42:24

quickly revisit the book and find that. This

42:27

is where I got far luckier than most

42:30

guys. I had unbelievable mentors in my life

42:32

and people that reached out and helped me. I

42:35

got more help than I knew what to do with. Swain,

42:37

for example, he was the first one. I'd

42:40

say after my mom, he was the most significant

42:42

mentor in my life. That guy has given me

42:44

way too much of his time for free. I

42:47

was always keeping an eye on Canadian

42:49

riders, right? I was always trying to

42:51

follow what guys were doing at

42:54

the North American races. I

42:56

also worked with this group called

42:58

Bridge the Gap. It's

43:01

all about helping young riders make that next

43:03

step if we can, if it's just some

43:06

tickets somewhere to get to a training camp or

43:08

to a race or something like that. I

43:11

had access to his email and I remember just

43:13

writing him and saying, hey man, good job. Because

43:15

that was my thing. I was always trying to

43:17

see who's coming up and then

43:19

who could actually use help. So

43:30

Richard, we've got

43:32

that coming next week,

43:34

features an excellent interview that you

43:37

did with Swain Tuft. Lots of

43:39

race of thought provoking reflections on

43:41

life as a pro, how to

43:44

become a pro, how to cease

43:46

to be a pro as well,

43:49

how to readjust to normal civilian

43:51

life once one has been a

43:53

pro. That's coming next week. The

43:56

week after that, we've got three

43:58

kilometre zeroes all to the Giro

44:01

d'Italia which at that point will only be

44:03

days away. That week we've also

44:05

got our extra large probably

44:08

Giro d'Italia preview. There's also going to

44:10

be a kilometer zero live

44:12

for Friends of the Podcast in there somewhere

44:14

which is going to be a live virtual

44:16

event where they can talk

44:19

to me and as

44:22

yet to be announced special

44:24

guest or guest. So

44:26

very busy period for the cycling

44:29

podcast. Richard I just wanted to mention

44:31

one thing briefly without

44:35

going into too much detail about it

44:37

but the Giro d'Italia is

44:39

on the horizon from the 4th to

44:41

the 26th of May. Today it was

44:44

another victory for Israel Premier Tech. Now

44:46

obviously Israel, the

44:48

country Israel, not a team Israel is very

44:50

much in the news at the moment and

44:53

yeah it's an issue that

44:55

I think we will talk

44:57

more about during the Giro

44:59

d'Italia. We did talk in

45:03

January when Stephen Williams won the

45:05

Santos Tour Down Under about whether

45:09

there's any sort of squeamishness on

45:11

the part of the riders and

45:13

what we should feel about this,

45:16

about Israel's name being on team

45:18

Jersey from the point of view

45:20

of fans and media. The only

45:22

thing I wanted to mention today,

45:25

I wanted to point out is

45:27

that there are groups sympathetic

45:29

to the Palestinian cause that

45:31

are sort of trying to kind of

45:34

mobilize boycotts, protests, particularly at

45:36

the Grand Tours this year. I

45:39

heard an email in my

45:41

inbox the other day Richard

45:43

from the Palestinian Campaign for the

45:45

Academic and Cultural Boycott of

45:47

Israel doing

45:49

precisely that, trying

45:51

to urge support for boycotts and

45:55

protests against the Israel

45:57

Premier Tech team at

45:59

the As

46:01

I say, not

46:05

expressing any judgment about that. My

46:08

feeling has always been that if we are going to

46:10

talk about this issue, we will do it properly and

46:13

we will do it in detail. But

46:16

it was something that I thought

46:18

I would mention in anticipation of

46:20

a more considered

46:24

conversation at a later date. I

46:28

think that's all from flesh well on, isn't it? Until

46:31

next year. Until next year. And

46:33

another, we put the cheese away for

46:35

12 months. Yeah, as you said, it

46:38

was quite a slow, ponderous

46:40

roll down or up the

46:42

slope today, wasn't it? It made me think, what kind of

46:44

cheese would it have been? Definitely soft cheese, maybe a Brie

46:47

or a Common Bear. I'm

46:50

not wrong, I think it was a Brie. The

47:03

cycling podcast was created in

47:05

2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel

47:08

Frieve and Lionel Bernie. Thank

47:26

you.