0:11

You. And listening to the

0:13

cycling podcasts. Oh,

0:23

and join you on January the Thirtieth.

0:25

Otherwise, I learned a few hours ago

0:28

known in the United States of America

0:30

as National Croissant Day. Sorry.

0:32

Was that today's across a my

0:34

Name's Day every about nine. The

0:37

host of this episode of Cycling

0:39

podcast in which will be facing

0:41

not on crescent shaped pastries, choir

0:44

song or crafts song. As.

0:46

I think put out so I

0:48

just said. But among other things

0:50

across for it is that time

0:53

of year the Cyclo Cross world's

0:55

upon us. Mercifully mercifully Coming to

0:57

my aid is a gentleman who

1:00

is as much an authority on

1:02

Cyclo Cross as I am an

1:04

ignoramus. There's one the voices of

1:06

all cycling in Belgium, Mr. Runoff

1:09

Shorter who told me just before

1:11

we started recording that he hasn't

1:13

been working on Cyclo Cross am.

1:16

This. Winter. So we're gonna the fire

1:18

the booking agent but you haven't. You have

1:20

been watching Cyclocross. Fortunately you are not by

1:23

how are you? First of all, yeah, good,

1:25

good good. I mean a winter without working

1:27

on Psyche Close is really. A

1:30

thing I would recommend every cycling journalists

1:32

the. Guy know whether or

1:34

not the riders of course not the rise because monte

1:36

of on the pool is also thinking about and that

1:38

might be a problem. Based

1:41

on where why read early today I have

1:43

been doing a bit of research for this

1:45

some episode am he's toying with the idea

1:47

of may be deserted Cyclocross. who knows when

1:49

are in future spending is winters of you've

1:52

spent your winter you just been telling us

1:54

and in Las Vegas done with you on

1:56

the slots in Las Vegas for am you'd

1:58

been so Davis kind of sport. fan's

2:00

tour of the United States watching

2:02

NHL, NBA as well I think.

2:05

Yes, very similar things. Just tell

2:07

us quickly about that. The

2:10

Lakers really sucked. I'm sorry for

2:12

the language but LeBron was nowhere

2:14

to be seen against the Utah

2:16

Jazz game I saw between

2:18

Christmas and yeah

2:21

what was it? Three Kings, do we

2:23

say that? Three coding and in Dutch,

2:25

sixth of January. I mean it was

2:27

January 3rd and so the Lakers weren't

2:29

really playing well but I saw

2:31

very interesting NHL games, ice hockey with

2:34

the LA Kings and the Las Vegas Golden

2:36

Knights and that was really a very

2:39

very interesting experience and it once

2:42

again struck me how different sports

2:45

is being experienced

2:47

in the United States compared to

2:49

Europe. I mean the whole

2:52

professional surroundings are so different from

2:54

everything we're used to in Europe. I'm

2:57

attending quite a lot of football games

2:59

this season tickets all over

3:02

club bruges because of my

3:04

son and myself and

3:06

if you think about the

3:08

differences in approach it's day and night

3:11

kind of. It's funny,

3:13

I was out with Lionel Burney last night

3:16

and we were talking about the same thing. Talking

3:20

about our respective experiences

3:22

watching basketball games at Madison Square

3:24

Garden Lionel's

3:26

a big fan of certainly watching

3:29

American Sport Live. We should introduce

3:31

our second guest Renard maybe we'll

3:33

talk a bit more about how

3:35

sports is televised and how one sport

3:38

and how one discipline within a sport

3:40

I cyclocross is televised a bit later

3:42

but we should introduce our second

3:45

guest it's another commentator. I

3:47

think we should have a commentator's

3:49

joust in this podcast. He's another

3:51

hotshot commentator who also knows his

3:53

cocksider from his Koppenberg cross but

3:56

like Renard he's also one of the

3:58

voices who's on my list. Malifluous

4:00

tones accompany us throughout the road

4:02

season. It is Blackburn

4:05

and the Balearic Islands own Rob

4:07

Hatch. Rob, how are you doing?

4:13

How are things for you Rob? Well, Blackburn are

4:15

about to sell their best player, so I'm not very good

4:17

on that front. So a club

4:19

bruge. So a club bruge. They

4:21

were about to. I'm not particularly fond

4:23

of. But anyway,

4:26

that's another, that is definitely another subject. Rob,

4:29

you are somewhere where some road cycling has been

4:31

taking place over the last few days. We're going

4:33

to talk quite a bit about that later, but

4:35

that must have been pleasant

4:37

and novel to be able to catch

4:40

the odd glimpse of the European road

4:42

racing season getting underway out of your

4:45

bedroom window. Yeah, the doorbell went

4:47

about four minutes on air on one of the

4:49

races and I went to answer the door very

4:51

quickly and I could hear the helicopter up filming

4:53

the riders going up the push mile.

4:55

So that was quite a novel experience. Yes, it

4:57

was nice to feel like I was back in

4:59

the bike racing on site again. I

5:02

have attended the challenge of Mayorka in the past. It

5:04

doesn't exactly, I wouldn't say it sort of mobilises

5:07

the masses in Mayorka. No. How would you?

5:09

No, it mobilised the masses when I went

5:11

to the pub on Friday and I was

5:14

the butt of everybody's complaints about the roads

5:16

being closed and blah, blah, blah. Why do

5:18

they have to come through town all the

5:20

time and the usual

5:22

sort of stuff. So yeah, I've

5:25

changed my opinion of it. We'll talk a little later.

5:27

I used to see this as sort of like the

5:29

charity shield pre-season friendlies, but I think it

5:31

gave us a slightly different vibe this year. Well

5:35

Chavs, on that note, since we are

5:37

already talking about it, I'll start this

5:39

week's news roundup. I'm going to start

5:41

with the challenge of Mayorka. We recorded

5:43

last week. I think we were midway

5:45

through this sort of week long series

5:47

of one day races. I forget how

5:49

many rounds of the men's races we'd

5:51

covered last week. So I'll give you

5:53

a comprehensive and final list of races

5:55

and winners in chronological order.

5:58

They were the Trofeo Talvia. won

6:01

by, or Calviar sorry, won

6:03

by EF Education First Simon

6:06

Carr, the Trofeo Cessalines Felanich,

6:08

won by Paul Manier of

6:11

Suda Quickstep, the Trofeo Serra

6:13

Tramodana, won by Leonard Van

6:15

Etfout of Lotto Destiny and

6:19

the Trofeo Pojenza, won by

6:21

Peleo Sanchez of Movistar. Actually

6:23

there was another one, Trofeo

6:25

Parma, won by Herbin Beysen.

6:27

We'll get into the weeds of some

6:29

of those races a bit later on

6:32

just as we may look a bit

6:34

more closely at what happened at the

6:36

GP La Marcees which was won by

6:38

Kevin Gignettes of Luxembourg and Cropa Mar

6:41

Esteige and the

6:43

Cadel Evans Great Open Road Race

6:45

which was won by another Cropa

6:47

Mar ride at the Kiwi Lawrence

6:50

Pithy. It had completely

6:52

champs passed me by that the Cadel Evans

6:54

Race is a World Tour Race.

6:57

As it is for the women, the Women's

7:01

Twinty 24 edition also took

7:03

place last weekend and that

7:05

was won by Rossita Reinhout

7:07

of Visma Lise a bike.

7:11

Oscar Onley who

7:13

we covered last week, the winner on

7:16

Old Wallunga Hill in the Toran that

7:18

he had an unfortunate day

7:20

didn't he at the Cadel Evans Road

7:22

Race. He crashed and broke his collarbone

7:24

a lot to digest their champs. I

7:26

don't know about you but this

7:29

time of the season, particularly with

7:31

the demise of GCN, it's very

7:33

difficult to stay

7:35

on top of all this racing. I keep I'm

7:37

waking up in a cold sweat regularly sort

7:40

of with that feeling of not having done my homework,

7:42

not having digested and fully processed all

7:44

of these races going on. Before I get told off

7:46

you can watch it on Discovery Plus by the way.

8:00

there who have had a very good start to the

8:02

season, you and I were exchanging notes as well

8:04

about the broad sides that have

8:06

been fired in the media

8:09

by a former Clupamar rider Arno

8:11

Demar in the direction of his

8:13

old team manager, Mark Madiou. Not

8:17

enough reinforcement, not enough praise, not enough well

8:19

done mate. It seemed a strange thing or

8:21

two to say given that I'm sure surely

8:23

somebody shook his hand or patted his back

8:25

when he crossed the line but obviously quite

8:28

a bit of bad blood no, when he

8:30

left at the mid-point of last season? Yeah,

8:33

a surprising amount, a surprising amount

8:35

given how long successful their association

8:37

was. Staying on

8:39

the road, completing our results round up, it

8:41

would be remiss of me not to mention that

8:44

we have a new set of Colombian national champions,

8:46

those titles were awarded at the end of

8:48

last week. Over the

8:50

weekend they went to Diana Penuela

8:52

in the women's TT, Danny

8:54

Martinez in the men's TT,

8:56

Paula Patino in the women's

8:58

road race and Alejandro Osorio

9:01

in the men's road race

9:03

that ahead of Sergio Higuita

9:05

and a pretty resurgent Egan

9:08

Bernal, did either of you

9:10

to catch any of those? Just

9:13

the results and the results are what

9:15

they are and a win's a win

9:17

even if it's early season and even

9:19

if it's a national championship that you

9:21

don't get to see broads

9:24

or yeah, I think a

9:27

win's a win and it should never be

9:29

underestimated as simple as that and at the

9:31

end of the season all those wins will

9:33

be counted. That's what we

9:35

tend to forget in the early days of

9:37

the season and the teams use them for

9:39

their statistics, I mean so never

9:42

underestimate any win in a

9:45

cycling race. Indeed

9:47

Renard, indeed. Next,

9:49

not news about races that have taken place

9:51

but races that will be ridden in a

9:53

few months time, the news

9:55

being that Geraint Thomas intends to

9:57

ride both the Giro d'Italia Tour

10:00

de France in 2024. Chaps, a

10:03

lot of people were surprised

10:05

by this and not least because I

10:07

think Garan Thomas himself sort

10:09

of said at the end of last year that

10:11

he'd come to the conclusion he found it very

10:14

difficult to get ready and particularly get sort of

10:16

to racing weight for two grand

10:18

tours of the season. That in

10:20

fact chimed with what I was

10:22

hearing from insiders at INEOS, particularly

10:24

the Vuelta last year that well

10:26

he didn't have a good Vuelta

10:28

as well documented. He sort of left

10:31

that race licking his wounds and sort of

10:33

dismissing the Vuelta as the holiday grand tour

10:37

and suggesting he wouldn't go back there

10:40

but he seems to have had some kind

10:42

of change of heart. In

10:45

what role, in what guise he will go

10:47

to the sort of France in particular remains

10:49

to be seen because we know that he's

10:52

got a bit of a score to settle

10:54

with the Giro d'Italia after last year and

10:56

they're missing out so narrowly to Primoz Roglic.

10:59

The feeling I have about it is that they

11:01

have a new chief at INEOS Grand Adirs and he

11:03

wants one of their main

11:06

riders to be at the flagship competition

11:08

of the year which is the Tour de

11:11

France still so even

11:13

if it's not his own choice he'll

11:15

be there and I think that's an interesting thing

11:17

and an interesting factor also in the run-up towards

11:20

the Olympics so the Olympics

11:22

will play a role in a lot

11:24

of season schedules. Maybe the Tour de

11:26

France this year is once again like

11:29

last year for Glasgow preparation race used

11:31

to be the perfect turnout to

11:33

be the perfect preparation for Mathieu

11:35

van der Poel. Okay it's

11:37

a blasphemy to take the Tour de France

11:39

as a prep race but it has been

11:42

done before with success so who knows and

11:44

Garand Thomas being a Brit, being

11:46

a Welshman, importance of

11:48

the Games is definitely to

11:51

dare across the channel so I

11:53

think that might also play a

11:55

role in his decision to do the

11:58

Tour or part of the Tour de France. Rob,

12:00

next headline. I think you were on

12:03

a few weeks ago when we first

12:05

gave news of Red Bull's impending purchase

12:07

of a controlling stake in the Bora

12:09

Hansgrohe team, subject to the regulatory process.

12:11

We have received notice in the last

12:13

few hours that said regulatory process has

12:15

been completed. A lot

12:18

of speculation about that in the last few days. We

12:20

don't really know what it's going to mean yet. A

12:22

lot of talk about this,

12:25

of course, meaning that Red Bull

12:27

Bora Hansgrohe are going to join

12:29

the ranks of the so-called super

12:31

teams. UAE, Visma, Lisa

12:33

Bike, Ineos, Grenadiers, I suppose most people

12:35

would include in that. I

12:38

think a lot of the speculation has been

12:40

quite excited. Transfer market speculation.

12:44

That means now that while Fanart is definitely going to

12:46

go to Bora Hansgrohe, that sort of stuff, that we're

12:48

not sure because there's all sorts of things that have

12:50

to fall into place with that. I

12:52

think what we can be sure of is

12:55

that Bora Hansgrohe or whatever they might be

12:57

called, whether they stay called Bora Hansgrohe or

12:59

Red Bull, whatever going forward, they'll

13:01

have better economic means, they'll be better supported,

13:03

and I'm pretty sure that as long as

13:05

it's managed properly there will be a bigger

13:08

force than they already are, which is already considerable. Renard,

13:11

any intel on this you can give

13:13

us? Fanart heading to Red Bull, Renko

13:15

heading to Red Bull? I

13:18

wish I could, Daniel. I think

13:20

it's early days to talk about

13:22

those things. There's a lot of

13:25

contracts to be ripped apart if

13:27

you want to make happen all

13:29

those rumors and those speculations about

13:32

the new, so

13:34

would it be called, Super Red Bull

13:36

team. I'm not sure about that.

13:39

I think we have to take this

13:41

season first before we go on to

13:43

the next Mercado because the last Mercado

13:45

was already quite interesting. I mean,

13:47

I think that's an

13:50

understatement. There's

13:53

so much to happen, so much will happen this

13:55

season, and I think it's too

13:57

early days to speak about Red

13:59

Bull. super team but having

14:03

seen over the years what Red Bull

14:05

has done in other sports and what

14:07

they have done with sponsoring a like

14:09

of athletes like Woz

14:12

van Aet, I'm quite sure that ambition will

14:14

be staggering high. They

14:16

want to become number one in the

14:18

world on whatever field or

14:21

whatever bunch we're speaking about.

14:23

It's gonna be an interesting season

14:25

for van of course we know he's doing

14:27

the Giro d'Italia and a

14:29

few weeks ago when these plans were

14:31

sort of unveiled the consensus seemed to

14:33

be that in Visma, Lisa Bight were

14:35

going to send a pretty inexperienced team

14:37

or young team to the Giro d'Italia

14:40

maybe put some heft behind Kian Utabruks for the

14:43

general classification but that it would be a

14:45

young team generally and I've just seen actually in

14:47

the last hour or so some kind of

14:49

short list I don't know whether the team have

14:51

released this a short list

14:54

for the Giro d'Italia and it looks

14:56

an absolutely stacked lineup that

14:59

could you know sort of

15:01

leaving to one side Jonas Vinga guard it

15:04

could easily be a Tour de France team

15:06

minus Vinga guard so it's

15:08

gonna be interesting to see well we

15:10

know that van Aet he said loud

15:12

and proud he's gonna go for stage

15:14

wins at the Giro d'Italia will talk

15:17

of a GC challenge that's sort of

15:19

faded for the moment at least. Talking

15:22

of the Giro remaining in Italy there's

15:26

been excitement in the last few hours

15:28

I would say greeting the unveiling of

15:30

a new longer harder

15:33

gravely Strade Bianche

15:35

both women and men's versions

15:37

in Siena that

15:39

announcement took place in Siena today

15:42

the women's route gains just one

15:44

kilometer going from 136 kilometers

15:47

to 137 kilometers but there'll be

15:49

more gravel than was previously the

15:51

case the men's race lengthens considerably

15:54

from 187 kilometers to 215 kilometers

15:56

and will now feature four more

15:58

gravel sections so So, 15 instead

16:01

of 11 now. Chaps,

16:04

I guess the likes of Hadei Pogaczha, who

16:06

I think, if I'm not mistaken, is going

16:09

to start his season in

16:11

Siena, in Tuscany, for Straya Bianca,

16:13

I guess he will

16:15

be one of the riders who will

16:18

be quite enthusiastic about this news. You

16:20

would think the race will become more selective. You

16:24

would think so. It's already a difficult race actually. I

16:26

mean, we tend to think of it as a big

16:28

spring classic with the dirt and the gravel and everything

16:30

but if you look at those who have done well

16:32

in the history, they've all been riders who have been

16:34

able to climb quite a lot as well. This really

16:36

does favour climbing types more

16:38

than perhaps we think because we

16:40

consider it a proper dirty spring

16:43

classic sort of thing. Maybe Renate not as much

16:45

because he's surrounded by the stuff up there. But

16:48

we tend to have it in our mind like

16:50

that. I think one

16:52

reasoning for this might be, of course

16:55

they want to make it hard and everything, but without

16:57

all this talk in the last few years of, ah,

16:59

it should be the sixth monument and people desperately sort

17:02

of classify it. Exactly. They're trying to

17:04

give it a distance so that people are going

17:06

to talk about it even more. I guess it's

17:08

pretty clever and the organisers from a PR point

17:10

of view because again it just intensifies talk and

17:13

does it mean anything? I'm not sure. Obviously it means

17:15

something to the riders who are going to try and

17:17

target it. One thing, Rob, you're

17:19

also going to have this year and this only occurred to me. I

17:21

saw an interview with Simon

17:23

Yates overnight. He's

17:25

at the Alulah tour in Saudi Arabia. He's

17:28

been talking about concentrating on the Tour de

17:30

France. Of course we've got the stage there,

17:32

the Trois stage, the Schmein

17:35

de Vin, the sort of,

17:37

what do they call them? What's

17:39

the translation? Vineyard tracks. It's basically

17:41

gravel sections in, I think that's

17:44

stage nine of the Tour de France if I'm

17:46

not mistaken. Simon Yates said

17:48

that he's going to do Strade

17:50

Bianche mainly to

17:52

test his team's equipment

17:55

in view or ahead

17:58

of the Tour de France. stage

18:01

so that that will probably the case for quite a

18:03

few guys I would suggest he's

18:05

gonna have longer testing now

18:09

because of more gravel and more strade

18:11

bianche so I don't think it will

18:13

change the race really but I think

18:16

the chance of incidence is bigger because

18:18

the more sections you have

18:20

the more incidence can happen so in

18:22

that way it's even more

18:24

interesting but to come from a longer

18:28

distance to color the monument is way too

18:30

early because for a

18:32

monument in my opinion you need

18:34

longer tradition and you need even

18:37

a longer distance it has to be around 250

18:40

before we can talk about the monument

18:42

and there's also been calls in the

18:44

past about making Gantvevel gamma monuments and

18:47

and it's nice and but let's stick with

18:49

the five monuments it's good like that we

18:51

don't need a six monument I

18:53

saw I agree with Renate by the way

18:55

I was I'm putting that out there because

18:57

I know that is what the talk is

18:59

about but I think monument distance is around

19:01

250k and it's the history that really for

19:03

me makes it a monument but it's just

19:05

a made-up denomination anyway yeah this is

19:07

something we're not I don't remember I

19:10

don't know if you can cast

19:12

your mind back to the start of your

19:14

journalistic career I can't remember whether 20 years

19:17

ago people talked about monuments

19:19

well they certainly didn't talk about them as much as

19:21

they did now we've

19:23

discussed this before on the podcast and

19:26

I when I was researching my book

19:28

on Eddie Merck's I remember old French

19:30

language cycling books in the 70s talking

19:32

about the classic monument but it wasn't

19:34

necessarily the same five monuments that we

19:36

think of in that kind of upper

19:38

tier and I have been

19:41

pressing that it's a term it's

19:43

a newfangled appellation that has come

19:45

to prominence in the last 15

19:47

years or really embedded itself in

19:49

people's psyche in the last in

19:51

people's consciousness in the last 15 years no

19:54

I agree I mean but a lot

19:56

of those nominations even turn up in

19:59

the last 15 months. It's

20:01

the era we live in. Things

20:03

are being created and sometimes they

20:06

make sense and sometimes they don't.

20:08

So it's just maybe it's just

20:10

a nice side thing, the whole

20:12

monument discussion. Back in the

20:14

days they were just called classics and there's a lot

20:17

of them and then you have the biggest classics and

20:19

we call those monuments to make it a bit

20:22

easier. Maybe it's short

20:24

through the corner, that's

20:26

an Flemish expression, but

20:28

I'm not staying awake for

20:31

any monument. I mean the

20:33

appellation, it doesn't matter if it's

20:35

called monument or super classic or

20:38

whatever, it's the race that counts

20:40

and the history and then

20:42

we're getting somewhere. I might

20:44

go with that from now on, the super classics. Last

20:48

item on the AutoQ is an 11th hour

20:51

contract extension a few weeks ago. We

20:53

expressed our surprise disappointment. Three African riders

20:55

seem to be heading out of the

20:57

world tour, Skabu Gamay, Mahawi

20:59

Kudos and Amanwel Gebreghzabir, whose

21:02

contract hadn't been renewed by

21:04

Little Trek. Rob,

21:06

I might have shared this with you over

21:08

the last few weeks. A chap in a

21:10

pub actually told me shortly thereafter that Gebreghzabir

21:13

was going to get another deal with

21:15

Little Trek, but it hadn't been made

21:17

official yet. Well, it took a

21:19

considerable amount of time, but

21:22

Little Trek, sure enough today, did

21:24

announce that the Eritrean is staying

21:27

with them for another year, deservedly

21:29

so, I would suggest Rob. We

21:31

had another discussion a few weeks

21:34

ago about the

21:37

difficulties that some African riders have had over the

21:39

last few years with visas and so on and

21:41

also just this general theme that we've discussed

21:43

a few times over the winter about how

21:46

you hold on to a contract and

21:48

how you present your case, how you

21:50

make your case to a team when

21:53

competition for places in the world tour

21:55

is so intense and Gebreghzabir

21:57

was a name that we, or was a

22:00

The right that we discussed and the consensus

22:02

among people who know him is that he's

22:04

a guy whose ability on the

22:06

bike sort of exceeds his, well, the

22:09

kind of level of extraversion, if that's even a

22:11

word, he's someone who

22:13

keeps himself to himself and

22:16

there is a sort of sense among people who know

22:18

him that that hasn't really helped him at the time

22:20

or it might not have helped him last

22:23

year and at the end of last year when he did

22:25

have to make the case to

22:28

stay at Little Trek, stay in the

22:30

World Tour. Yeah, and that's why you

22:32

need a good representative to do the job. You need a

22:34

good agent to do the shouting from the rooftops for you

22:36

if you can't do it yourself and completely

22:39

identify and sympathise and actually like the fact

22:42

that someone's not shouting about from the rooftops

22:44

about their own ability. It's quite nice and

22:46

refreshing, I would say, but obviously if it

22:48

costs you a contract, that's not good. So

22:51

I'm delighted he has got a deal because

22:53

again like you, everything I've ever heard from

22:55

other riders has been pretty positive about Gabriel

22:58

Xavier and that he's a very,

23:00

very solid rider that's done a pretty good

23:02

job when he's been riding in the World

23:05

Tour, so that's good. And you mentioned how

23:07

he could us as well. He joined the

23:09

3rd Division Tranganu team which on the Asia

23:11

Tour is probably one of the most prestigious

23:13

teams that's been around for the last 20

23:16

years or so. Remind us

23:18

where they're from? They're from Malaysia. They're

23:20

competing in all the biggest UCI Asia Tour

23:23

races. So it's a 3rd Division team, continental

23:26

team, but at least riding for

23:28

a team like that, I know that he wanted

23:30

obviously this down the World Tour, but he's going

23:32

to be riding things like the Tour of Langkawi

23:34

will be over in Japan and Korea and those

23:36

sorts of races as well. So

23:39

that's an

23:41

opportunity hopefully for him to

23:43

stay in the sport, get some wins and

23:45

then maybe that opens eyes and other teams

23:47

become interested again. And

23:49

win the win, as Renaud said. And

24:01

so finally we come to the long

24:04

awaited or the most hotly anticipated

24:06

moment of the cycling podcast season.

24:08

It is the short, the fleeting

24:11

moment, the fleeting 20

24:13

minutes in which I have to talk about cyclo-cross.

24:15

Chadd, believe it or not, I actually enjoy

24:18

this episode and it's become almost a tradition.

24:20

I think we've had a Renard on last

24:22

year to talk about the cyclo-cross world and

24:24

perhaps even the year before as well. And

24:27

this is a rare occasion when I don't even

24:30

have to pretend to be stupid or not to

24:32

be stupid rather. I

24:35

can embrace the

24:38

role of class clown dunce

24:40

and I can let

24:42

my curiosity about cyclo-cross as is well

24:45

known, as I've said on

24:47

many occasions, cyclo-cross is not my

24:49

favourite cycling discipline. Get out! But

24:51

I can let my curiosity sort

24:53

of run wild as it were

24:55

and I can ask you the

24:57

most basic questions and just go

24:59

away feeling as though I've been

25:01

enlightened. It's because you don't know

25:03

it, Daniel. I mean, cyclo-cross is one of

25:05

the most underestimated

25:08

– underestimated, is that correct English?

25:10

– it's

25:13

one of the most unknown cycling disciplines across

25:15

the world somehow. It should be Olympic. I

25:17

mean, I make a statement.

25:19

It should be on the Winter Olympics. Yes,

25:22

I'm glad you said that because Winter

25:25

Olympics is the perfect place for it and every time

25:27

I seem to mention it, it gets buffed away. Why

25:29

can't it be in the Winter Olympics? It's

25:31

winter fighting. Let's go one

25:33

step at a time, shall we? Let's

25:36

start with the World Championships. Well, Renard,

25:38

first of all, if you

25:40

would, I would like you to give us a

25:44

bit of a summary of the season and

25:47

maybe picking out what have been the sort of main

25:49

couple of themes. I mean, I think I know what

25:51

the main themes have been. It's only on the men's

25:53

side. I don't know what the main theme has been

25:55

and the dominance of a certain rider. But

25:57

set the scene, if you will. for

26:00

us ahead of these World Championships

26:02

in Tabur in

26:05

the Czech Republic. Rob, this is going to

26:07

be contention. Yes,

26:10

the senior preview, that is what I

26:12

can do, Daniel, with pleasure and with

26:15

love for Cyclocross. So

26:17

for next Sunday what

26:19

we're going to

26:21

see under normal circumstances is title

26:24

number five for Mathieu van der Poel. It's

26:27

written in the stars. I mean,

26:29

if you look at the way he's

26:31

performed this winter, there's

26:33

this staggering statistic of 12 victories in 13

26:35

races with Benidorm

26:38

the exception. He

26:40

was actually beaten by a stubborn pole there

26:43

and Wozanar took his chance. And with the

26:45

pole, I mean it was an obstacle. A

26:47

pole, yeah, not someone from Poland. Not a

26:50

person from Poland or a rider from Poland.

26:52

So that pole actually took

26:54

his chances away. In Benidorm, that was

26:56

his only slip of the

26:58

tongue during an amazing

27:00

cyclocross season. So the big

27:02

thing is, the big absentee

27:05

is Wozanar, which means Mathieu

27:07

van der Poel can

27:09

basically only lose from himself

27:13

a crash, a mechanical, other unforeseen circumstances.

27:15

Who knows that pole from Benidorm shows

27:17

up. I mean, those are the only

27:19

things that really can beat

27:22

Mathieu van der Poel. It seems

27:24

like Tom Pitcock is also a very

27:28

big forefoot. So then

27:31

everybody is thinking about second and

27:33

third place for Sunday's big elite

27:35

race. And then

27:37

we have some competition,

27:39

interesting competition from between

27:41

low countries, riders. You

27:43

can basically say or

27:45

predict that there will be six big candidates

27:47

for silver and bronze. And then I'm

27:50

thinking about three Dutch guys, Lass van der

27:52

Hart, Pym Romhart and Joris Niewenhuis. Those are

27:55

the guys from from Holland. And

27:57

then you have three Belgians with World

27:59

Cup winners. Ailey Isrbit,

28:01

there's European champion Michael Van Turanot,

28:03

we have Thibaut Nesse, who's

28:06

the big Belgian hope long term. So

28:09

those six, I don't think

28:11

they will even try to follow Mathieu,

28:13

because if they do so, they

28:16

might drop besides the podium. So

28:18

that's a big risk. So there's maybe 1%

28:21

chance the Belgian cyclocross national

28:24

coach that Van Der Poel is not winning

28:26

the race. Never ever

28:28

in the recent history of cyclocross, the

28:30

favorite has been so outspoken. So

28:33

I don't know if that's interesting enough to watch the

28:36

race, but it's something... Yeah,

28:38

Bo Heideggers, for instance, the

28:41

94-well champion from Coxeine, he

28:43

said, I give Mathieu five

28:45

stars and the other three stars, which

28:48

says it all, I think. So

28:51

never ever in the recent history of

28:53

cyclocross, the favorite has been that outspoken.

28:55

It all started in Thabo, actually, for

28:57

Mathieu Van Der Poel. I was going

28:59

to say, yeah, he talks about this

29:01

as a, well, as the highlight of

29:03

maybe his cycling life, maybe

29:05

outstripping, overshadowing even some of the highlights

29:07

he's had on the road, doesn't he?

29:11

Is it exactly the same course, Renard? Thabo

29:15

2015 and now? No,

29:18

there will be slight changes, but it

29:20

still has the classic characteristics

29:22

from the Czech race. It's

29:25

situated about 80 kilometers

29:29

south of Prague. In

29:31

Thabo 2015, Van Der Poel won before

29:34

Wod van Aert. Both were making their

29:36

debut at the time at the world's

29:38

elite level. So it's a

29:40

bit of a shame the sequel is not

29:43

there this year, but hey, it is what it

29:45

is. But anyway,

29:47

Mathieu is able to pull off his

29:49

fifth world title, elite world title, next

29:51

Sunday. And then we

29:54

come back to the beginning of this episode. He

29:57

Hinted this winter several times that he might have

29:59

been a good winner. The experience in the

30:01

near future? A Spanish wonder when

30:03

out Cyclocross and that would mean

30:05

if he starts the sequence next

30:07

winter that we have to wait

30:09

for him beating the addict Islamic

30:11

record of seven bowl titles that

30:14

would stand still much. Maybe one

30:16

day decides to come back to

30:18

side with those. Maybe it's early

30:20

days to speak about that, but

30:22

I'm quite sure somehow that next

30:24

winter. In it looks almost

30:26

a certainty that you won't do any

30:28

second Cosby's he wants to break mentally

30:31

also because the seasons are getting longer

30:33

and longer and also he sees the

30:35

benefits of doing the last cycle costs

30:37

for his road career and the records.

30:40

He's. Not interested in records mature, but

30:42

of course, every Belgian as addictive,

30:44

laming seven world titles. That's history,

30:46

That's legacy. it's and. Much.

30:49

Yourself. A himself has stated

30:51

that he's a road racer and he

30:53

said ah the couple of times and

30:55

and in that sense. Factor.

30:57

Cause really has a problem because it's

30:59

not a main activity for it's for

31:01

the two best riders of the moments.

31:03

what's on off them much of on

31:05

the pool so them on top of

31:07

that in world cup gets a lot

31:10

of criticism. and and there's too many

31:12

races. it's not globalized and of stuff

31:14

like that. So what's gonna happen with

31:16

a calendar next season's is also a

31:18

very big question. and for the first

31:20

time ever they will not. A

31:22

announced the next calendar at these will it's

31:25

usually the do that they will not do

31:27

that that will without the the calendar and

31:29

then later on. There. Will be

31:31

clarifying what will happen with evolved up

31:33

and stuff like that. So it's a

31:35

kind of a little crisis moment for

31:38

Cyclocross if you look at the broader

31:40

perspective anyway. the race the

31:42

sunday or the races from

31:44

friday on they will be

31:46

worth following for sure that

31:48

the the race and conditions

31:50

i've and for myself they

31:52

will be dry circumstances which

31:54

means below have a hard

31:56

surface condition much you should

31:58

fly but lost him of

32:00

course and on that kind

32:02

of surface. And there's the classic barriers

32:05

uphill, that's really a classic point where

32:07

only three riders really have a technical

32:09

advantage to begin with, much of Van

32:11

der Poel, but then you also have

32:14

Thiebonnais who will jump those barriers and

32:16

Michael Van Tour note. Those three

32:18

riders will get an advantage to

32:20

all the other competitors each round

32:22

jumping those barriers. That's very very

32:25

important possibly for the medals. So

32:27

last weekend we saw something worrying

32:31

for the Belgian public, not for

32:33

the international public but I'm speaking

32:35

about Belgian perspective. No Belgian podium

32:38

at Hogereder at the last World

32:40

Cup and the possibility that an

32:43

emergency session in Parliament. Almost,

32:46

almost, almost. You shouldn't forget

32:48

it's day of mourning. It's

32:50

been since 97 that

32:53

no Belgian podium in the men's elite

32:56

race. What's going wrong right now?

33:00

Well, St-Arts started to be good on the

33:02

roads and I think that's

33:04

the main thing. So

33:07

the men's race looks a bit, yeah,

33:09

a certainty with lots of touch

33:12

on the podium. That's a

33:15

possibility. I hope that one Belgian jumps

33:17

on that podium anyway to keep that

33:19

burden statistic away. But for the women

33:23

it's even, yeah, 100% Dutch

33:25

podium is to be predicted

33:27

there with Femme Van Empel

33:29

being the major favorite. That's

33:32

basically how I can sum up

33:34

the build-up to this weekend's races.

33:37

It seems to me that the Femme

33:40

Van Empel Puck-Petersen rivalry is kind

33:42

of, it's, you could say, from

33:45

afar, from my very distant perspective, a bit of

33:47

an analogue of the Van Aert van der Poel

33:50

rivalry, but much closer. Yeah,

33:53

yeah, we can't compare that. I

33:55

mean, both of them haven't

33:57

done on the road what about them, what you had.

34:00

have done on the road yet, so it's

34:02

still a different ball game. But then again,

34:04

they make for great races. And Van Empel

34:06

was really the match you have under pulled

34:08

this year of the women's circuit. So she's

34:10

the big favorite, but we shouldn't count out

34:12

Branta as well. She's always

34:14

dangerous in championship races. But in

34:16

theory, you would think Pita also

34:18

has the advantage of jumping the

34:20

barriers there on the uphill section.

34:23

And that has to be proven,

34:25

that has been proven decisive in

34:27

past races, world tops and worlds

34:29

on that track. So anyway,

34:33

Tabo is always a spectacular race, and I'm

34:35

really looking forward to them. Can I ask

34:38

a question that just exposes my lack of

34:40

research, researched other topics

34:42

in this week's podcast. And

34:44

I feel as though I've asked one of

34:46

you this question before. Tabo,

34:49

Czechia, why Tabo?

34:53

Why has that? Because I know that it's a place with some

34:56

degree of cyclocross heritage. It's been a venue

34:58

for decades of

35:00

various races. And what is the

35:02

link? Because not

35:05

to demystify cyclocross too much, but

35:07

I've seen cyclocross courses. You can

35:09

pretty much build a cyclocross course

35:11

anywhere. So why there? That's

35:14

a very difficult question, Daniel. But I'm

35:16

quite sure it has to do with

35:19

some very, very motivated organizers back

35:21

in the days. There

35:23

is a race that goes back to the

35:26

era of pole headaches in

35:28

the 90s. And so it's

35:30

always been around, and there's been a tradition.

35:32

And then they keep organizing.

35:35

And then for

35:37

the riders, it's like the

35:39

Czech classic in the

35:42

cyclocross world. And I think

35:44

once that reputation is

35:46

established, they try and probably

35:48

also the Czech National Cycling

35:50

Federation, they try to uphold

35:53

that tradition. And it

35:55

all started with one guy, and it's still

35:57

continuing, and it's a nice place. city.

36:01

Yeah, it was the stage of

36:03

one of the most legendary cyclocross

36:05

moments ever with the move of

36:08

Mario de Clerc, who

36:11

actually hampered the Czech

36:13

opposition. Dlask was the

36:15

victim and Vervecken could win one

36:17

of the Belgian ball tiles. So

36:20

I'm not sure that was one of

36:22

the reasons they keep holding that race

36:24

there, but it's been the ground of

36:27

really big races and nice, nice, nice

36:29

scenarios in the past. I'm quite sure

36:32

everybody is expecting Mathieu van

36:34

der Poel to win, but it will not

36:36

be without a battle somehow. The Vols say

36:38

the Vols. There have

36:41

been some interesting quotes from van der Poel in the run

36:43

up to this world's chaps. Renard,

36:45

you've already touched on it, but this idea

36:48

that he's got or this idea that's sort

36:50

of germinating in his mind about maybe not

36:52

doing cross next year, maybe not doing it

36:54

again in the future at all. There

36:57

was one quote I saw this week.

36:59

I don't think it really adds value towards

37:01

the spring. It's not the

37:04

ideal training for spring. You're better off with

37:06

five or six hours of endurance training than

37:08

riding for an hour or break next speed.

37:10

Now, even I as

37:12

a cross agnostic have always maybe

37:15

labored under the misapprehension over the past

37:17

few years that one of

37:19

the cornerstones of van

37:21

der Poel's advantage is that

37:24

unique work

37:26

that he's doing and those workouts that

37:28

he's doing on a cross bike in

37:30

the winter. I've always imagined that he

37:32

would give up some of the advantage

37:34

that he takes into the classic if

37:37

he didn't do any cross. If he was doing solely

37:40

the kind of ride that he's talking about there,

37:42

endurance training, he wouldn't only be doing that of

37:44

course, but his diet

37:48

consisted mainly of that over the winter.

37:50

So that struck me as curious. We

37:53

have this saying in Dutch, he's

37:56

looking for a stick to slap the dog with. I

38:01

think it has been an

38:04

advantage for Mathieu van der Poel. Who came up

38:06

with that? The organizers of E3 Harlebecker? Yeah,

38:11

no comment. Anyway, go on. Yeah,

38:17

I think Cyclocross has been

38:19

an advantage for both of their

38:21

careers. I'm referring to Mathieu

38:24

van der Poel and Bob van Aert,

38:26

of course. But I think the mental

38:28

aspect has not to be underestimated because

38:30

he's also stated in an interview recently

38:32

that every race he comes to,

38:34

there's a lot of things happening

38:37

around him. And we

38:39

can't underestimate the effect that

38:41

has on a rider's mind.

38:43

And then he has to

38:45

hold that tension with not

38:47

only all the winter,

38:49

but also during summer and autumn and

38:51

maybe some mountain bike in between. Do

38:54

you know what, Renard? I've got some advice for

38:56

him if he wants to keep a slightly lower

38:58

profile. Try not turning up in a Lamborghini. That

39:00

might help. I

39:02

don't think that the one Lamborghini was

39:04

his. I mean, those are just publicity stones.

39:07

It is a bit turned up with a

39:10

Porsche last weekend or something. And I don't

39:12

think it was even noticed. But I saw

39:14

it pass. I

39:16

might even turn up in a Lamborghini at the

39:18

next Ronde van Vlanden. Who knows? The

39:21

real house husbands of East

39:23

Flanders. Yeah,

39:27

OK. But it's all about... I

39:32

think it's his mindset that is

39:34

withholding him to make

39:36

long-term prospects on doing Cyclocross.

39:39

And probably after his last

39:42

staggering road season, he

39:44

now realizes what he can do on

39:46

the road and he thinks, Oh, wait

39:49

a minute. I might capitalize on

39:51

that. It's

39:53

amazing when you look back or when

39:55

you listen to some of the things he

39:57

says now about road cycling and them. Even

40:00

in the last week or so, he's

40:02

talked about his mindset around 2015 when

40:04

he won that first world

40:07

and not really entering his

40:09

head at that point that he was going

40:11

to be a fully-fledged road rider. He

40:14

was pretty convinced at that point that cyclocross

40:16

was going to be his life. It's

40:19

all about fun if you speak

40:21

about the approach Mathieu van der

40:23

Poel wants. He started to

40:25

get in good times

40:27

during long training blocks and he never

40:30

ever imagined, certainly not in 2015, that

40:32

he'd be able to pull off those

40:34

blocks with having fun whilst having fun.

40:37

He does that these days and

40:39

he's enjoying the loneliness in the

40:41

Spanish surroundings, the better weather, all

40:44

of it together. Also, what does

40:46

he have to prove anymore in

40:48

cyclocross? Nothing. If I

40:50

were in Mathieu van der Poel, I might probably

40:52

do the same and now

40:54

go 100% for the road. Then

40:57

at the end of his career, when he

40:59

sees that it's more difficult to get those

41:01

same successes on the road he's performed last

41:03

year, get back to the cyclocross and try

41:05

to beat the Eric Dovlamian record, that would

41:07

be a nice approach. Him

41:09

taking his eighth world title at the

41:11

age of 40, that would be the

41:14

dreaming end of his career. So

41:16

having established that Mathieu van der Poel is definitely

41:18

going to win on Sunday, with

41:21

one eye chaps on the

41:23

road and those

41:25

riders who combine both activities and

41:27

do it to great effect, Renard,

41:30

Rob, what are we to make

41:32

of particularly Tom Pitcock and Wout

41:34

van Aerts cross seasons, if

41:37

anything? I

41:39

would say that they've both got different plans and they're

41:41

sticking to them. We've heard it quite a few times

41:43

from Wout van Aerts and his coach, haven't we? I

41:46

was in Amsterdam at the team

41:48

presentation just before Christmas and he

41:51

seemed pretty at peace with the

41:53

decision like he'd accepted, even if he went through

41:55

the season without beating Mathieu van der

41:57

Poel, then it was what it was. And

42:00

he had one of those years last year, let's

42:02

not forget, when Fond du Poule was injured and

42:04

out of it where it was all worked for

42:07

Nart, wasn't it? And he went through the whole

42:09

winter and he was utterly dominant and he was

42:11

brilliant. But it didn't quite work out in the

42:13

spring. You could say that, well, there's a bit

42:15

of bad luck here or there, and there's probably

42:18

some truth in that. But this year, he wants

42:20

to make sure. He's at the age where he

42:22

wants to make sure. The team are winning grand

42:24

tours here and there. Obviously, they won every single

42:27

grand tour last year, didn't they? And

42:31

he wants them to carry on winning the classics.

42:33

Let's not forget the building up to, we're going

42:35

back to the M word, the monuments and the

42:38

Flemish Holy Week, if you like. They won just

42:41

about every race, haven't they, Jumbo Visma? It

42:43

didn't happen for them when it came to

42:45

the Ronde de la Flandre and then it didn't happen

42:47

a week later across the border in Rube. So

42:50

they're trying to make sure that it will

42:52

happen this year. Plus, as we mentioned earlier

42:54

on, there's the different calendar. There's the different

42:56

mental approach for Watson Art because he's going

42:59

to the Giro. He's probably going to do,

43:01

well, he's going to do the Olympics, then he's probably going to do

43:03

the Welter. So they've thought about

43:05

this. They're happy about it. I

43:07

think he'll be happy that he got the win in Benidorm. With

43:10

Pitcock, he got a big win

43:12

in Nama, Namur earlier in the year, which

43:15

is across, I think, that he's probably

43:17

always wanted to win in the modern,

43:19

pretty legendary venue. And

43:21

of course, he is going to go in a different direction. It's

43:24

the Ardennes for him, then the Tour

43:26

de France. It's not particularly that big

43:28

cobbled week. So with that, again,

43:30

we'll have to see what happened with

43:32

the preparation. And as Renate touched on earlier

43:34

on in the podcast, there's a

43:36

change of management there as well. What

43:38

has that influenced on his objective? So I think we're going

43:40

to have to wait for it all to come out in

43:43

the wash. But they have their plans

43:45

and they're sticking to them and they've both picked up wins,

43:47

didn't they? But

43:49

what do you expect? I mean, that's

43:51

what those two guys are thinking, hoping,

43:54

Renate. If you have to gaze

43:57

into your crystal ball now. and

44:01

prognosticate Wout van Aert's 2024 season.

44:04

I mean, last year, you know, this is a guy who's

44:06

a victim of his own success and he's a victim of

44:08

this rivalry with Van der Poel,

44:11

also this idea, this narrative that

44:13

people have that he is this

44:15

sort of cycling superman who should

44:17

be winning everything. And

44:19

you know, we have the memory of

44:22

the Tour de France a couple of years ago where

44:24

he seemed to sort of drag

44:26

the race at his will and

44:28

at his want almost

44:31

every day. But

44:33

last year, because he didn't win a big

44:35

monument, there was this idea that it had

44:38

been a bit of an anti-climax and that

44:40

somehow, I mean, he needed to improve as

44:42

sort of paradoxical and as ridiculous

44:44

as it sounds. So what do

44:46

you think 2024 has in store

44:48

for him? Clearly,

44:53

it's all about those two races, Deronda and

44:55

Paris-Roubaix. But the thing

44:58

is, yeah, to win

45:00

a race like that, it's

45:02

so difficult. I mean, I've often

45:04

said it's like a puzzle and

45:07

usually one of thousands, maybe even

45:09

10,000 pieces try

45:11

to fit them. So last

45:13

year, he was unlucky on

45:16

the last important couple section, Carfout

45:18

de L'Arbre. We'll never know how

45:20

would it have turned out without

45:23

that flat tire. So I think

45:26

he's been victim of a lot of

45:28

criticism about not having won the Tour

45:30

of Landers or Paris-Roubaix yet. But

45:34

yeah, it's clear that the team

45:37

also wants to win those two

45:39

and that they're thinking about, OK,

45:41

we'll have to win one of

45:43

those two. And then the burden

45:45

of Jumbo Visma not winning in

45:48

the two couples monuments is gone.

45:50

But I think it's a big

45:52

risk they take. But

45:55

why should he be blaming for taking that risk? I

45:57

mean, he's only going to do a couple

45:59

of races. between the Belgian opening

46:01

weekend and the

46:03

Tour of Flanders. So no Ghent Wevelgham and

46:06

stuff like that. So no presents to be

46:08

given anyhow, anyway. So

46:12

I think he's just going to go for it. Those

46:14

two races, he tries to be at 105%. Everything

46:18

else is preparation, even if he wins

46:20

with, yeah,

46:23

with a lot of strength, Omlop

46:25

and Nieusblat, it won't matter for his career.

46:27

It won't count. Cune, Bresl,

46:29

Cune, it's all foreplay. It's all

46:31

about the Ronde van Blaanden and

46:34

Paris-Roubaix. And if it doesn't succeed, then

46:36

I know Woutz, kind of. And then

46:38

he will just continue and go

46:40

to the Tour of Italy and just try to

46:42

win a stage and check, because

46:45

he hasn't ever performed at

46:47

the Tour of Italy. And he just tried

46:49

to win a stage and check that off.

46:51

And then he'll start thinking about the summer,

46:53

about the Olympics, where he will try to

46:56

get rid of that silver, that burden of

46:58

silver. So he will try to win the

47:00

time trial, even if Remco is there, even

47:02

if Tarling or Ghana is there. And

47:05

then he'll think about the road race. So if

47:08

that doesn't work out, he'll think about

47:10

Zurich, the world, and that's how it

47:12

continues. And then another winter will come,

47:14

and he'll try again at the Ronde and Roubaix.

47:17

I mean, it's just not a quitter. And

47:19

he's not 30 yet. He still

47:21

has a lot of good years ahead of him.

47:23

His career is already a success, but of course

47:25

he wants more cherries on the cake. There have

47:27

been a lot of cherries on the cake, but

47:30

any rider wants to have those monuments. And

47:32

for the moment, Milan San Remo, and

47:35

an almost monument, Strade Bianche, it's

47:37

not enough is the thought

47:39

of the outer world. But

47:43

if I were Walfenad, I wouldn't think about the

47:45

outer world. He has to think about his own

47:47

happiness and whatever. He's striving

47:49

at if he tries. You

47:51

can't blame him. So pressure,

47:54

those are things we are creating, the media

47:56

is creating, the public is creating. He has

47:58

to do what he wants. wants to do

48:00

and I would agree with him saying,

48:03

I'm muchus nix, it's

48:05

his life. And

48:07

that concludes the annual cyclocross discussion on

48:09

the cycling podcast. Ha ha ha. Ha

48:11

ha ha. Ha ha ha. Those

48:13

were some friends who were like, that

48:16

would really the sound, the smell of

48:18

the sights, it's incredible. Good

48:22

evening everyone, my name is Abus

48:24

Karim, I'm ara, I'm

48:26

ari, I'm ari, I'm ari, I'm ari, I'm ari, I'm ari,

48:29

I'm ari, I'm ari. Whoo! Ha ha ha

48:31

ha. What's that guy look like? Oh,

48:33

I wanna be like him, I wanna ride like him.

48:36

I wanna sit on my bike like him. They're

48:38

like the only charity

48:41

organization shipping used

48:43

bikes to see the element of the event. I said I'm feeling

48:45

sick, so he assist me with

48:47

some money and take me to the hospital, give

48:49

me bicycle to ride. The

48:52

vast majority of junior riders were raced against

48:54

and kicked on a test. The

48:57

bikes used to be lost to me. My

49:00

parents now, I love with my wife. Well,

49:04

I know UCI has been, some

49:07

of them have been following the body of the loner

49:09

and our goal is to reach the

49:11

UCI level to see that cycling

49:15

became top in Sierra Leone

49:17

and West Africa. To see

49:19

that happening, and UCI's having

49:21

a continental African

49:24

West African, we do. Hello,

49:31

Lionel here with a brief message about

49:33

the Tour de Lounsartre, the biggest grassroots

49:35

race in West Africa. Now,

49:37

you may remember that we featured the race

49:39

in an episode of Service Course last year

49:42

when Oscar Skarsbroek was on the ground in

49:44

Sierra Leone. He was covering the event and

49:46

our episode was brilliantly put together by producer

49:48

Tom Wally. The Event itself

49:50

was created by Kareem Kamara and over

49:53

the past decade it's grown and it

49:55

now encompasses races for men, women and

49:57

junior riders, attracting teams from all over

49:59

the world. The Region and providing

50:01

and opportunities for cyclists to compete

50:03

at a high level. Well.

50:06

Now the total and Saw needs a little

50:08

bit of help. you find yourself short fundings.

50:10

The Twenty Twenty Four addition is due to

50:12

be held in April The after the loss

50:14

of sponsorship, the event is in a little

50:16

bit of doubt. Karim is determined it will

50:18

go ahead as planned, but I do need

50:20

some funds to put on the race. I

50:22

need to pay for all of the infrastructure,

50:24

the timing equipment, and just cover the cost

50:26

of putting on the event. Stephen Mon, the

50:29

former C L A Science in Sports been

50:31

a big supporter and Baca of the Toward

50:33

and and Saw for many years stashed in

50:35

a personal. Capacity and later when Science

50:37

in Sport with a title sponsor

50:39

of the Rice Skis now helping

50:42

Karim to raise money to ensure

50:44

the Twenty Twenty Four race can

50:46

go ahead as planned to dylan

50:48

saws been an ivy successful raise

50:50

the biggest grassroots race in West

50:52

Africa and forth. The. Last

50:55

three is and Science in

50:57

Sports and others as committee

50:59

to make the event happen.

51:01

And. Given the current travails in

51:04

cycling and brought his voice in the

51:06

Uk, a lot of companies have drawn

51:08

back on the funding, or Twenty Twenty

51:11

Four. And. With to

51:13

Dylan song announced in the dates in

51:15

the diary, they find themselves in a

51:17

bit of a funding crisis. Gets in.

51:19

This news makes us Bay Sat and

51:22

though we are looking around the net

51:24

swaths of cyclists and looking for. Sponsors:

51:27

To sit out to be consumed, you dell. I've

51:29

been to see that cycling continue to develop in

51:31

these parts of thought. The. Guys

51:34

are very resourceful. Date that they can

51:36

run the whole. For. Day

51:38

race with all the customers juniors,

51:40

women and men for a round

51:42

about fifteen thousand and. We.

51:45

Have two and a half months for

51:47

it is slated for the seventeenth. To.

51:49

Detainees. Best of it, when B C at.

51:51

The. Cyclist at screening. Massive.

51:54

Need to make saw the outfits. For.

51:56

A print. We. Have a new

51:58

young kids read! staff for the

52:00

junior race, New York girls for the

52:02

junior race. As I'm speaking

52:05

to you, tomorrow I'm going to start sending

52:07

the international invitation

52:10

and let us to the

52:12

local clubs that are on the grounds,

52:15

let us to communities, let us to

52:17

police to make

52:19

sure they get the awareness. So we are

52:21

going only the plants whilst we are looking

52:23

for funding. Hoping to raise

52:26

the money and if we

52:28

can get some cycling

52:31

fans to help with

52:33

the crowd fund, which we've done before,

52:35

we successfully funded an event

52:38

in Freetown once before, just

52:40

three people who

52:43

were fans of racing from the UK. And

52:46

then if I can persuade maybe two

52:48

or three companies to put forward a

52:50

smaller donation, I think we can get

52:52

there. But it's important we

52:54

give it a good crack. It's such a

52:56

central event now in the sports calendar in

52:58

Sierra Leone. We've just got to find a

53:01

way to make it happen. My

53:03

passion for cycling, I see it

53:05

as a tool or thing of

53:08

creating awareness, bringing people

53:10

together, preaching peace, taking

53:12

young boys and girls out

53:14

of drugs, putting them

53:16

into proper mindset. West Africa

53:18

doesn't have a lot of cycling events and

53:21

when you're looking at people and

53:24

riders, they want to

53:26

race in nearby countries. And

53:29

the only opportunity to

53:31

do that is to do something like

53:34

the Todilosa that brings people from one

53:36

point to another. So it's

53:38

created the opportunity not only for

53:40

Sierra Leoneians, but for

53:43

riders across West Africa.

53:45

So Stephen and Karim have set up a GoFundMe

53:47

page to raise £15,000, which will cover all of

53:49

the costs

53:52

of putting on the Todilosa for

53:54

2024. If you search Todilosa

53:56

on GoFundMe, you'll find the crowdfund

53:58

that easily enough. we will put

54:00

a link in the show notes. Now

54:03

back to the show and Daniel and Co. Okay,

54:10

gentlemen, we are back on

54:13

terra firma. We're back in my comfort zone.

54:16

We're back on the road. We

54:18

can see the sun breaking

54:21

through the clouds, the olive groves of

54:23

the Mediterranean. Yeah,

54:27

I find my sort of

54:29

thoughts drifting, particularly to Mallorca. We talked about

54:31

it earlier in the podcast.

54:33

We had racing in Mallorca last week.

54:35

That's where Rob currently is. But Chaps,

54:38

for this segment, where

54:40

we will be concentrating on the road, I set you a bit

54:42

of homework. This is

54:45

gonna be the way for most

54:47

of the next couple of months,

54:49

we're gonna be inundated with races

54:52

all over Europe, from all over

54:54

Europe, some races in the Arabian

54:56

Gulf as well, various other places,

54:58

we've got the Weddak, Colombia, coming

55:01

as well. Too much to

55:04

wrap our arms around completely. So

55:06

we're gonna have to sort of pick out talking

55:10

points, themes, highlights, things that

55:12

have particularly struck

55:14

us about what we've seen so

55:16

far. So I asked you to

55:18

do precisely that, Rob. You were

55:20

commentating last week on Challenge Mallorca.

55:23

A few interesting themes, interesting days

55:25

of racing. What struck you so

55:27

far in

55:29

the racing that you have seen in 2024? How

55:34

cycling's changed and

55:36

how, Renate touched on this early

55:38

on, he said a win to win, every

55:40

race matters. Now, even just

55:42

two or three years ago, and I'm

55:44

biased because these races come past my house and I

55:47

love being able to step out and watch them, the

55:50

realist in me and of course, I think

55:52

when the light goes red and it says

55:54

on air, I would be honest, and these

55:56

felt like The Charity Shield, the

55:58

pre-season friendlies, if you like, Renate. This is

56:00

the yes you how to win and if it was

56:02

you know one of your first wins and you career

56:04

was good. May be good for the team to get

56:07

a number in the box and you know. Next.

56:09

To the W column those at least one

56:11

in it and early season when get the

56:13

confidence gone. But did it matter when we're

56:16

talking about in other the cobbles in the

56:18

end of spring when we get to digital

56:20

worry really gonna be thinking about the through

56:22

fails to silliness felonies and I'm not sure

56:25

your web I added as. I

56:28

have to say though, the way when

56:30

which these teams this last week attacks

56:33

the rice, the speed at which he

56:35

was written, the importance placed on getting

56:37

someone in a skin so. The radio

56:39

down the from the in in a breakaway

56:42

all day console him from the race behind

56:44

as he so for me as education, easy

56:46

post and Simon costs. The scenes were really

56:48

race in hard for points, the wins for

56:51

proceeds. It is true that every race I

56:53

think seems to matter now and I know

56:55

that this ties in with what you were

56:57

talking about last week Daniel about you know

56:59

the to use quake if you like this.

57:02

the young ride is coming along busy so

57:04

lot of young. Very. Very

57:06

good when him or a man a

57:08

second the or yeah, an onion I

57:10

think if your Ac original good enough

57:12

you're old enough now. And it's funny

57:14

how I was looking on social media

57:16

last week and for my sins produce

57:18

often nowadays at But Gallon Thomas was

57:20

joking about been at an altitude camp

57:22

in early January and you know you

57:24

see a lot like and now of

57:26

the two thousand meters and this is

57:28

on the twenty Fourth of January. This.

57:31

Was race on the same day over in

57:33

my York aware that were really fight in

57:36

our and i just thought even in. The.

57:38

Last two, three, four years things

57:40

have changed to an incredible pace

57:42

and importance. now is on every

57:44

race since that was the thing

57:46

that really struck me last week.

57:49

Done, Rob A him. Every race

57:51

has become very important on them,

57:53

with often that we could be

57:55

shy. Amy credit books the relegation

57:57

system which I don't have. them

58:00

date to hand. I can't remember exactly what you were

58:02

talking about. Another two seasons including this one. So we're

58:04

a product. At the end of this year, people will

58:06

be getting worried. So it was introduced

58:08

four years ago, was it? Yeah. Has

58:11

that been the deciding

58:14

factor in this phenomenon, this

58:16

trend? And is it

58:18

also a coincidence that, you know, I

58:20

talked earlier on in the episode about

58:22

superteams. The superteams haven't been quite as

58:25

prominent and there have been some of

58:27

the sort of high ranking teams, the

58:29

Bahrains, for example, the Ineos, that haven't

58:31

been as prominent as some of the

58:34

teams, maybe in the sort of second

58:36

tier, the lower half of the UCI

58:38

rankings, for whom those ranking points are

58:41

vital even at this point of the

58:43

season. Is there a correlation, do you think? Well,

58:46

we saw a little bit of a glimpse of

58:48

this last year, maybe, with Lotto Destiny, choosing not

58:50

to go to the Giro d'Italia and

58:52

choosing to focus their very best teams

58:55

on races where they knew, particularly

58:58

with Arnoldo Lee, they had a fantastic chance

59:00

of doing well, winning and picking up points.

59:03

This week, Anto Marche, just like they

59:05

were last year in Mallorca, were going

59:07

things. And I've seen an interview actually

59:09

in the Belgian press today about

59:13

their team bossing. We've got the lowest budget in

59:15

the world, so we need to go and do what

59:17

we can. We saw that with a

59:20

fantastic sprint win for their sprinter,

59:22

Kerben Thiessen, who picked up a fantastic

59:24

start to the season. And he's got

59:26

a new train. They've all worked together.

59:28

Some experience brought on the likes of

59:30

Fuhrkur joining the team as well. EF

59:33

Education Easy Post, we saw them attacking more last

59:35

year. I think that was part of a bigger

59:37

strategy and they've got really good squads. I think

59:40

we will see them competing against the very best

59:42

and the super teams, as you talked about

59:44

when it comes to the bigger races. Marvi

59:47

Starr plays quite a bit of importance on it, didn't

59:49

they? And they got their first win of the season

59:51

with Palayo Sanchez. But it's not as if

59:53

the big team brushed it aside,

59:55

however. We saw Brandon McNulty going for things

59:57

for Uae Emirates. One

1:00:00

hands are tied to take pictures is less of

1:00:02

what it might do. Daniel Nice sort of smaller

1:00:04

Isis book in a gig Gig keeps right is

1:00:06

happy he gives him a chance to go with

1:00:09

or race or at least right into their own

1:00:11

opportunities but it you know you could see after

1:00:13

a few the first or at the first day

1:00:15

the first reaction Mcnulty of last have lost out

1:00:17

and there was a bit of while you know

1:00:20

first as a season where we had some they

1:00:22

were on the podium. Three

1:00:24

times as he countless of out the five,

1:00:26

and not when he was pretty settled by

1:00:28

the end of the week that he hadn't

1:00:30

won. He was important to them. They're to.

1:00:33

Riders. In particular, really fighting for

1:00:35

kind of elbow room in their respective

1:00:37

teams on that. They are gonna have

1:00:40

to take their opportunities home when they

1:00:42

come in the season. When my it

1:00:44

was stuff that genuine disappointment from Ride

1:00:46

is like that that really hammered home

1:00:49

to me how important these races suddenly

1:00:51

become. and then when you look at

1:00:53

you know you mention the points in

1:00:55

the relegation issue some of the team's

1:00:58

going for That are pretty. Hovering

1:01:00

close to the relegation trap doors your needs

1:01:02

a football parlance. the year One you know

1:01:05

it isn't a bit of an eye opener.

1:01:07

Young we mentioned Lotto. Destiny One is com

1:01:09

lot of Sudan. sorry. Peter

1:01:12

that you thought of a hobby or hundred

1:01:14

homes or me by now I asked a

1:01:16

year of it but they themselves you know

1:01:18

that that work for them last year because

1:01:20

they're back hoping to sort of the promotion

1:01:22

spot city Lights of people focusing on it

1:01:24

and waking up Israel premier tech at the

1:01:26

to it'll last year going for things they

1:01:28

have moving off as well so. It

1:01:31

has woken a lot of people my think

1:01:33

that is as he suggested that one of

1:01:35

the big reasons and yes for once we

1:01:37

should say well played You see I then

1:01:39

did I mean people have always talked about

1:01:41

use your points and Yishai rankings but it's

1:01:43

only really in lost since he is that

1:01:46

it has become relevant to the extent that

1:01:48

we as people who were following the spawn

1:01:50

covering sports. Figures are

1:01:52

we need to be pay attention

1:01:54

to that. It was something that

1:01:56

was wasn't room, didn't feel very

1:01:58

rarely relevant or existential. for most

1:02:01

people in the sport. One thing

1:02:03

I will say on that front and must

1:02:05

do better UCI perhaps is

1:02:07

that the point system isn't clear. If we want

1:02:09

people new to the sport to get into it

1:02:12

and follow a narrative, it has to be much

1:02:14

more easy to follow. And I'm not suggesting we

1:02:16

dumb things down because I know a lot of

1:02:18

that happens in sports. Certainly we, us in television

1:02:20

are guilty of that, trying to make things too

1:02:23

simple all the time and you know, 20-20 cricket

1:02:25

and you can carry it on to all sorts

1:02:27

of different things. So if it

1:02:29

were easier to understand, new viewers would

1:02:32

very much get onto the narrative and be able to

1:02:35

follow what happens over a season instead of you know,

1:02:37

let's say 125 points here

1:02:39

but then there's 250 there. It

1:02:41

doesn't make much sense. In conjunction

1:02:43

with the UCI, I feel that broadcasters

1:02:46

should highlight this more or could highlight

1:02:48

this more now as well. We're very

1:02:50

used to seeing the general classification at

1:02:52

the end of races and the minor

1:02:55

classifications, graphics flash up. Rankings

1:02:58

table at the end of every

1:03:00

counting race would be pretty useful

1:03:02

and to know how much that particular race has counted

1:03:05

towards the rankings. Certainly it's funny

1:03:07

I'm actually going to the UCI next week so that's

1:03:09

something that I intend to bring up Daniel. With

1:03:12

Monsieur Laporteau. I'll join you Rob. Fantastic.

1:03:15

Well let's raise our hands at the same time

1:03:17

at the back of the classroom and pipe up

1:03:19

shall we? Yeah, you'll be

1:03:21

listening to the cricket at the back of the classroom.

1:03:23

That's what I used to do in class Rob. I

1:03:25

used to be with the old headphone up the sleeve,

1:03:28

hand on your ear

1:03:31

listening to England in the West Indies. Mocking

1:03:33

about. Is that before your tip x for scores on your pencil? Yeah.

1:03:37

Renate, what has stood out

1:03:39

for you in the

1:03:42

first couple of weeks of serious racing

1:03:44

on the road? I'm

1:03:48

assigned to cover the Portuguese tour

1:03:50

of the Algarve and if you

1:03:52

look at the line up there

1:03:54

it's really a staggering line up

1:03:57

and I'm kind of excited to go to

1:03:59

that race. Karen Thomas

1:04:01

is riding there but is announced there

1:04:03

with Petcock, with Gana, there's Avon Appel

1:04:06

with his super domestic if I may

1:04:08

say so, Landa for the first time.

1:04:10

We will see Van

1:04:13

Aert there with Köss the Vuelta winners.

1:04:16

I mean Gegen Hart is

1:04:18

there. Unofficially I've

1:04:20

heard that also Matthew van der Poul might

1:04:22

be there and lots of other riders. So

1:04:24

that is really a race to look forward

1:04:26

to and then from there I'll take it

1:04:28

to the Belgian opening weekend. I know

1:04:30

that's not the beginning of the season

1:04:33

but in Belgium the public still believes

1:04:35

that's kind of the

1:04:37

moment that things really start. So I'm

1:04:39

looking forward to that and there's so

1:04:42

many stories in the upcoming season and

1:04:44

I'm looking forward that really

1:04:46

excited about the

1:04:49

next 10 months. Well Rob

1:04:51

you talked there about the

1:04:55

very kind of visceral way in which some

1:04:57

of these teams seem to be targeting early

1:04:59

season races and the intensity of

1:05:01

the racing and you alluded to the

1:05:04

fact that well last week we had a discussion about

1:05:06

youth and this is really impossible

1:05:08

to ignore, impossible to

1:05:10

overlook. Now you used the

1:05:13

term that I used last week,

1:05:15

youth quake. Youth quake was a term I believe

1:05:17

coined by Vogue magazine in the 1960s for a

1:05:19

sort of cultural movement. There's also a very good

1:05:21

book that came

1:05:23

out recently by an author called Edward Pace

1:05:25

about the demographic

1:05:27

explosion in Africa and

1:05:30

he gives it this, he uses

1:05:32

this term youth quake for the sort

1:05:34

of emerging, well

1:05:37

the power that Africa is

1:05:40

going to wield culturally, economically

1:05:42

because of the population growth

1:05:44

essentially. But in professional cycling

1:05:47

I've been using it to sort

1:05:49

of refer to this explosion of

1:05:51

talent, under 23

1:05:54

talent, under age 23 not

1:05:56

the under 23 category and just

1:05:58

the fact that we're seeing younger

1:06:00

and younger riders prevail triumph. We talked

1:06:03

about Isak Del Toro, the

1:06:05

Tour Down Under, we'll talk again

1:06:07

about him in just a moment.

1:06:09

But it's continued over the last

1:06:11

few days chaps. Just today in

1:06:14

Saudi, Alulah Tour, Casper Van Ouden,

1:06:16

22 years old, Paul

1:06:18

Manier, the Lotta, sorry,

1:06:21

Sudar Quickstep French

1:06:23

rider, 19 years old. I

1:06:25

think I saw a statistic somewhere that he was

1:06:28

the youngest French rider to win a professional race

1:06:30

in Jacques-Antille. Leonard

1:06:32

Van Etvel, 22 years

1:06:34

old in Mallorca, even

1:06:36

Pelayo Sanchez, 23. Igor

1:06:41

Arrieta as well was

1:06:43

very prominent in Mallorca.

1:06:45

Lucas Norurca, son

1:06:48

of a former, well a

1:06:50

very illustrious former British marathon

1:06:52

long-distance runner who now is

1:06:54

also a member of an Isley Brothers

1:06:56

tribute band. Did you know that, Rob?

1:06:59

No, no, that's going in my notes. Thank you.

1:07:01

I know. Yeah, I grew

1:07:03

up with Motel music. So the Isley, as soon as I

1:07:05

saw that, I knew that I had to mention it in

1:07:07

the podcast. I

1:07:12

am preparing, I have been preparing

1:07:14

something about famous fathers or fathers

1:07:16

with interesting stories and there

1:07:18

was another one I came across this week in

1:07:20

Le Quip, Matées Rondel, a French rider

1:07:23

riding for Tudor this year. His

1:07:25

father is like the Michael Jordan of

1:07:27

long-distance roller skating. You know this? He

1:07:29

holds dozens of world...

1:07:31

I was waiting for a

1:07:33

basketball reference. He holds dozens

1:07:35

and dozens of world records in

1:07:38

things like roller skating across

1:07:40

Russia, that kind of thing. So

1:07:43

this phenomenon, the Youth Quake,

1:07:47

it has been one of the themes already of

1:07:49

this season and you know Chaps, you can't help

1:07:51

but think about some of the reasons there might

1:07:53

be for this. There are

1:07:55

dozens of possible explanations, probably all of

1:07:57

them carry some... way

1:08:00

and have contributed from the

1:08:03

kind of change transition professional cycling

1:08:05

undergone vis-a-vis doping in the last

1:08:07

20 years. Technology

1:08:10

and the availability of data is

1:08:12

absolutely key in this. Even

1:08:17

I was thinking Rob, there's

1:08:19

a lot of people some maligning rightly

1:08:21

so the demise of GCN and well

1:08:24

the fact that live coverage

1:08:27

hasn't seemed as accessible in

1:08:29

the last couple of weeks because we haven't got

1:08:31

the GCN app. We're talking about guys who are

1:08:33

21, 20, 19 now who over

1:08:35

the last four or five years have been watching

1:08:37

every single race from all over the planet and

1:08:40

even that in terms of

1:08:42

sort of a galvanising effect and inspirational

1:08:44

effect on some of these riders as

1:08:46

well as the

1:08:48

way they've been able to mine Strava

1:08:51

and as well as the way they've

1:08:53

been able to on social media for

1:08:55

example contact teams, getting in

1:08:58

touch with coaches and so on and

1:09:00

so forth. It sort of all adds

1:09:03

up to just

1:09:05

facilitating that pathway

1:09:07

that used to be pretty

1:09:10

difficult for a lot of guys. It

1:09:13

was blocked as well by older attitudes wasn't

1:09:15

it by the bosses of the peloton,

1:09:17

the patrons, the cappie, whatever you want to

1:09:19

call them who of course decided when you

1:09:22

were racing there's television cameras on

1:09:24

now and you can't do that anymore when

1:09:26

the television cameras rolling from start to finish

1:09:28

as well. Just

1:09:30

for the numbers I've got my notes here from the

1:09:33

second of the races there were 157 riders

1:09:37

starting, nine of them

1:09:39

were teenagers and 157 riders not bad and not something

1:09:41

you would

1:09:44

have seen at all in professional cycling

1:09:46

even three or four years ago. I

1:09:49

think you'd have been probably laughed out of the room

1:09:51

a decade ago for saying they were going to be

1:09:53

nine teenagers in a professional race at this point. You

1:09:56

mentioned a few of them were up there.

1:10:00

of this world and riders who just turned pro maybe

1:10:02

a bit older than that. Also

1:10:04

you mentioned the famous names, Arieta,

1:10:06

Belocchi, there was a Belocchi riding

1:10:09

as well, a teenage Belocchi for

1:10:11

EF Education Easypost. It

1:10:13

was extremely interesting and

1:10:16

again I'll remind all listeners that you can still

1:10:18

watch all the same races if you're in Europe

1:10:20

as you were before on Discovery Plus. The

1:10:23

United States has been an announcement for that and I

1:10:25

hear that for Australia there

1:10:28

might be some announcement in the coming

1:10:30

weeks hopefully. But yeah

1:10:32

people have grown up with the races, Daniel, everything

1:10:34

is accessible now, you can find

1:10:36

it if you want to find it and

1:10:38

coaches can look at their data, they can

1:10:40

see how good they are going

1:10:43

on Strava. We know it's not everything, we know that

1:10:45

you've got a lone racecraft, bike handling, all that sort

1:10:47

of things but if you have the

1:10:49

engine we're going to find out aren't we

1:10:51

and I don't know what Renate

1:10:53

thinks about this as well but I certainly think

1:10:55

that some of it is to do

1:10:57

with cycling catching up with other professional sports. You

1:11:00

know you've seen it in football for a long

1:11:02

time, a focus on youth and

1:11:04

cycling for some reason we have been stuck in

1:11:06

this age

1:11:08

different view that cycling was different and you needed

1:11:10

to have miles on the clock. Sports

1:11:13

science has probably played a big part in people

1:11:15

understanding that again if you're good enough you're old

1:11:17

enough. So

1:11:19

I think yeah just the

1:11:21

way that the new generations have

1:11:24

embraced the internet, I mean every

1:11:27

information is available and so they

1:11:29

can educate themselves and be streetwise

1:11:31

at a very young age and

1:11:33

I think that's something we

1:11:36

didn't have with generations back in the

1:11:38

90s and stuff like that. So it's

1:11:41

all about data except for Matthew van der Poel of

1:11:43

course, he's not on Strava anymore so I

1:11:46

think the data are very important

1:11:48

and they are making

1:11:51

it a different ballgame but there's

1:11:54

a lot of stories that tingle me for if you

1:11:56

speak about 24 if you allow me down. Daniel

1:12:00

to elaborate a couple of stories I'm

1:12:02

really interested in looking forward to. There's

1:12:05

more in Belgium than, it will astonish you

1:12:07

maybe Rob, than Valt and Remco and Joost

1:12:09

Philippsson and Arnaud de Lee. Yes, there is

1:12:11

more. And then I'm thinking about

1:12:13

Alex Seghart. Alex Seghart, who's the vice national

1:12:16

champion of Belgium, he became second in

1:12:19

road race after Remco Evenpool, but he's

1:12:21

a really good time trialist. He's a

1:12:24

pro team, lots of destiny. Okay, I know

1:12:26

it's not well to, but they have a

1:12:28

nice program and I'm quite sure that

1:12:30

he'll be one, he

1:12:32

might be one of the revelations in one day

1:12:35

races next this season.

1:12:37

And then I'm

1:12:40

also thinking from a UK perspective somehow because

1:12:43

the figure of Joshua Tarling is really

1:12:46

very, very, very interesting to follow his

1:12:48

third place at only 19 years old.

1:12:52

There we are again, that's another teenager. He's

1:12:54

turning 20 in the day after Valentine this

1:12:57

year. So yeah,

1:13:00

those are all stories I'm really fascinated by.

1:13:02

How are they going to develop their careers

1:13:04

at their various teams? It

1:13:07

seems that Lidle Trek,

1:13:09

we supposedly say Lidle instead of

1:13:11

Little, but whatever, they seem

1:13:14

to be the winner of the transfer Mercato.

1:13:18

And that's an American point of view then.

1:13:20

It's still a USA connected team.

1:13:22

And if you look at the way

1:13:25

they come out of that transfer market

1:13:27

with Kagan Hart, with

1:13:29

Jonathan Milan, Milan

1:13:31

actually coming

1:13:33

from Bahrain victorious that has a

1:13:36

new performance coach and that's

1:13:38

the brother of Alex Seggatt. There's another Belgian

1:13:40

touch there. Lueck Seggatt left lots of destiny

1:13:42

and he went to Bahrain victorious. So

1:13:46

one day they will be reunited. I'm quite sure that will

1:13:48

be a successful couple if they already were, but don't

1:13:51

forget that name. The writer

1:13:53

and Lueck, the performance coach. And

1:13:56

then there's also exotic

1:13:58

riders I'm interested about. There's probably

1:14:00

a writer you never heard of before,

1:14:02

the Mongolian champion. He's 27 years

1:14:04

old, so he doesn't fit into

1:14:06

the teenager category. But remember the

1:14:09

name Yom Bal Yom's, signed

1:14:11

by Ar. He's the Mongolian

1:14:13

champion and he's at European

1:14:15

procontinental level and Burgos BH.

1:14:19

And I got to know him in China,

1:14:21

really. And then he was in the early breakaway at

1:14:23

the world in Belgium in 2021. He's

1:14:26

at his first real pro season. And

1:14:28

I'm quite sure for Asian cycling,

1:14:31

the champion of Mongolia will be

1:14:33

seen in the European peloton. That

1:14:36

is a big thing. That's a huge thing.

1:14:38

It might seem small for us from the

1:14:40

traditional countries, but having a writer like that,

1:14:42

he was third last year at the Asian

1:14:45

Games behind Kazakh writers like Fedorov and Rufenko,

1:14:47

it says something. So

1:14:49

those are all different stories. The African

1:14:52

connection you spoke about and also really

1:14:55

fascinated about the development of Girmay. What

1:14:57

will he do at the Olympics? Will he continue history,

1:15:00

stuff like that? I mean, it is

1:15:02

such a great season to look forward

1:15:04

to. There's too many stories simply. Well,

1:15:07

I don't know where to end, Daniel. Talking

1:15:10

about exotic riders, young

1:15:12

riders and harnessing technology.

1:15:15

Last week we talked a lot

1:15:17

about Isaac del Toro, who had

1:15:19

won a stage at 20 years

1:15:22

of old, Mexican rider, won the

1:15:24

Tour Down Under. Earlier

1:15:26

this week, I harnessed some technology

1:15:29

because after last week's

1:15:31

podcast, I was contacted by the

1:15:35

power, the

1:15:38

brain trust really of the team

1:15:40

that we mentioned last week, AR,

1:15:42

Monix, AERA, Monix, which is the

1:15:45

Mexican under-23 team where it started

1:15:47

as a mountain bike team, became an under-23 team.

1:15:50

It's since developed into a women's team as

1:15:52

well. Into

1:15:54

Federation in its own right. We

1:15:56

Talked last week about how the

1:15:58

Mexican federation has been suspended. am

1:16:00

I was contacted by their brain

1:16:02

trust They were thrilled that we

1:16:04

hard to mention them. Talked about

1:16:06

effect, been taught rocks and I

1:16:08

was granted an audience by Yum!

1:16:10

Wow! all of the sort of

1:16:12

influential figures up a are are

1:16:14

at a more next just yesterday

1:16:16

as he can his voice is

1:16:18

now research on the as his

1:16:20

general manager on the Medina who

1:16:23

is from one the sponsors of

1:16:25

A are Monica Sam. It's.

1:16:27

Can be called Avon and they make

1:16:29

lettuce and the to gas and you're

1:16:31

going to make up this. Wow that

1:16:33

must mean I was one day they

1:16:35

farm letters and get here as well.

1:16:38

I'm on my car she's from one

1:16:40

of the other sponsors am in it

1:16:42

in Delhi Corp who I believe they

1:16:44

yeah. They

1:16:46

managed Sure they have them

1:16:48

to working spaces and. While

1:16:52

those individuals are very excited about

1:16:54

the sack than thought on the

1:16:56

very excited about why are Monex

1:16:59

on doing and about cycling in

1:17:01

Mexico you can hear now a

1:17:03

bit more about how. I.

1:17:05

Add more! Next came to be. He's.

1:17:07

Like Ventura he was discovered

1:17:10

and this explosion of interest

1:17:12

in Mexico. So

1:17:36

ah A my brother in I, Alex and

1:17:38

I we have another brother were read mother's

1:17:41

air so but but we started with only

1:17:43

with Alice and there and there with said

1:17:45

okay. And. Will of cycling but

1:17:47

Mexico it's totally arrays her from cycling

1:17:49

so was always so. what? What is

1:17:52

the problem? So the problem has been

1:17:54

for so many years. There Mexican

1:17:56

cycling Federation as though of their

1:17:59

the main. cancer of

1:18:01

our country. But we said

1:18:03

we cannot be waiting for

1:18:05

the Federation and we cannot be waiting for

1:18:07

the government to do something. So

1:18:10

we decided to take action.

1:18:12

So we moved to Europe,

1:18:14

Alex and I and we went

1:18:17

to France and then we went to

1:18:19

England and then we went to Spain

1:18:21

and then Andorra and we ended up

1:18:24

in Czech Republic. So we were like

1:18:26

learning from French cycling, English

1:18:28

cycling. We were living in Brighton

1:18:30

in England and we

1:18:32

were like competing in all this

1:18:34

area, London area, this area and

1:18:37

also we went to Spain and then

1:18:39

we were in Andorra because we didn't

1:18:41

have the proper visa to be Europe

1:18:44

and then in Andorra

1:18:46

we finished all

1:18:48

our money. So

1:18:50

we had to start working in a Mexican restaurant. You

1:18:53

know what, there's a really good Mexican restaurant in

1:18:55

Andorra La Veya. I go there every time I

1:18:57

go there. Whenever we

1:18:59

go to Andorra La Veya, I

1:19:02

always eat Mexican because there's a

1:19:04

really good place. Maybe Mirela Delita,

1:19:06

no? Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:19:08

This is Juan Pambaya,

1:19:10

he's the owner and he hired us.

1:19:12

He's a really good friend and he

1:19:14

helped us a lot with money because

1:19:17

but then we were working for him and

1:19:19

we only worked a few months in

1:19:21

Andorra and then we ended up

1:19:23

in Czech Republic. So

1:19:26

we said we have to discover

1:19:28

why the people in Europe, they

1:19:30

are so successful with cycling and

1:19:33

we discovered the main thing and

1:19:35

it's because they work

1:19:37

as a team, you know? And so

1:19:40

we said we have to do the same. So

1:19:42

of course we learned how

1:19:44

to use all the technology and

1:19:46

we learned how to of course

1:19:48

start working with

1:19:51

our whole team, psychologists,

1:19:53

nutritionists, coaches, physiotherapists,

1:19:58

all the professional team. And

1:20:01

in 2015, we decided to launch the

1:20:03

Mountain Bike team. And we saw that,

1:20:05

that there was no support from the

1:20:07

government, from the Federation. So this is

1:20:09

why we identified, and then we decided

1:20:11

to solve it through the, through

1:20:14

working with the private companies, right? 2015,

1:20:18

we started losing every race because

1:20:20

it was really high level, even

1:20:22

though Gerardo Yoar was really, really strong,

1:20:25

but it took us two

1:20:28

years to start winning. And

1:20:30

then like in 2019, I think it was

1:20:32

2019, or

1:20:36

20 Alex, when we won the first

1:20:38

workup in Mountain Bike with Gerardo Yoar.

1:20:41

And that is because we

1:20:44

realized that we are doing

1:20:46

something important, that we

1:20:48

select the best young riders in

1:20:51

Mexico, and then we take care

1:20:53

of them. Like we give them

1:20:55

the, again, the psychologist, the nutritionist,

1:20:57

the coach, everything, right? The physiotherapist.

1:21:00

So we were taking care of them. Heard

1:21:03

a lot of podcasts after ISAC,

1:21:05

and there's a common denominator that I've

1:21:07

heard that people say that cycling

1:21:10

is not a huge sport

1:21:12

in Mexico, right? Because we have soccer and

1:21:14

whatnot. Since COVID,

1:21:17

cycling in Mexico is becoming

1:21:19

huge. If you go ride on a

1:21:21

Saturday in Mexico City, you wouldn't believe

1:21:23

the amount of cyclists you're gonna find

1:21:25

in the streets. It's crazy

1:21:27

how it blew up. And we

1:21:30

are not Colombia. We know that we are not,

1:21:32

maybe Ecuador has had more

1:21:34

riders or whatever. But

1:21:37

cycling in Mexico is growing at

1:21:39

an amazing rate. For sponsors,

1:21:41

this is something they

1:21:44

should be looking at. It's, I

1:21:47

believe that the world

1:21:49

should be looking at us. After

1:21:51

ISAC won Tour de la Venir,

1:21:53

you have no idea how Many

1:21:56

people started talking about cycling. Because

1:21:58

that's another thing. Now We. Have

1:22:00

a national hero. right? This.

1:22:02

Is amazing for the sport for us because. People.

1:22:05

Don't know about cycling now? Wanna know about

1:22:07

cycling? Tour down Under You couldn't go to

1:22:10

out to a bike coffee shop in

1:22:12

Mexico where they were watching to without on

1:22:14

their. It would we. We

1:22:16

decided to to bought a job

1:22:18

to communicate through the social media

1:22:20

that thing we were gonna open.

1:22:23

A tryouts there for a new

1:22:25

writers said that this is when.

1:22:28

We. Want their work up the mountain bike?

1:22:30

And. Them. We met this a group of

1:22:32

companies and we decided to the launch. Their

1:22:35

wrote the wrote in. And. Waved

1:22:37

his editors who who they are

1:22:39

yeah communicate. Old med school that

1:22:41

would have tryouts. We.

1:22:43

Opened the try outs and we love them

1:22:45

with finish and then after that he sat

1:22:47

here a road thing called those and give

1:22:49

ah sorry I didn't know about this T

1:22:52

V like you would like seemed pleased me

1:22:54

let me be the try out. And

1:22:56

I am. And I said okay, let's do it

1:22:58

because he's like he really wants it to can

1:23:00

see when someone wants it. And then

1:23:03

basis of what other half were there

1:23:05

One A for my a plane ticket

1:23:07

because he lives in the very northern

1:23:09

Mexico and the border. So. That's very

1:23:11

very park and I serve other whoa Let's

1:23:14

see in the as a way I got

1:23:16

some funding from the sponsor and the and

1:23:18

by a with what and their that the

1:23:20

way to get. Them. Once

1:23:22

he was it a there he he

1:23:24

did a tryout. They'll burn a C

1:23:27

O two the says said then all

1:23:29

that lab fades and everything. And.

1:23:31

My brother saw this on human good

1:23:34

like yeah, natural some and then after

1:23:36

that they have through the years. And

1:23:39

like the like immediately depress the second

1:23:41

juri. she had a very better attitude

1:23:43

like she was there which he was

1:23:45

very bad and she saw the time

1:23:47

and. And. Trying to prove a lot of

1:23:49

things what he would not doing it properly. Saw.

1:23:52

So he was also ceasing a he

1:23:54

said france I like will be set.

1:23:57

Free. Riders They're Branson, The

1:23:59

Noah. He be that seem

1:24:01

fair they were like non all you

1:24:03

say fully he's a bully from there

1:24:05

and them. And. They even the code

1:24:07

see a day she said you know whether the

1:24:09

one in this is just too much a hiss

1:24:11

hiss like that out of his mind. all the

1:24:13

famine. And. Then I and then I

1:24:15

talked to him and and I understood

1:24:18

that he was very similar to Mississippi

1:24:20

when I when I was in football

1:24:22

and as it on this is not

1:24:24

about him when it a professional a

1:24:26

psychologist. And there and this is

1:24:28

what with I had a putting up Asian

1:24:30

to the psychologist. And there and

1:24:32

see others app I thought family of

1:24:34

them. And we made him realize that

1:24:36

they seem it had to work. Best seen

1:24:38

not as an individual. I love

1:24:41

the next Columbia not. Mexico's.

1:24:44

Not that different from Columbia

1:24:46

Topographic Fair. Manner. And

1:24:49

Dad the with others. Such.

1:24:52

A Bad governments and. This kind

1:24:54

of thing that we have to drag with it. And.

1:24:57

Seemed it's com the time that. People.

1:25:00

Like like they're all that eager brothers. Were.

1:25:02

Able to do a lot with. With. Very

1:25:05

little or that they do. They do

1:25:07

it that the right way. The.

1:25:09

Technique away. But but Woodbury.

1:25:11

Bears You resources. And.

1:25:13

That they do magic. Know. But.

1:25:16

Now that. That. Would be more funding

1:25:18

coming and with that that would be a

1:25:20

lot of of doors open. That

1:25:22

we can take advantage because of the time

1:25:24

is right. I. Sing what happened

1:25:26

We decide. It. Had been

1:25:29

baby before we were expecting it to have

1:25:31

been good with you. He was gonna happen.

1:25:34

I. Do believe there's dire. You

1:25:36

New Riders addict! We're. gonna

1:25:38

be the gonna be seeing into work

1:25:41

to her baby so but it was

1:25:43

really like. Going. To a

1:25:45

dream now is not a dream. Something that. That.

1:25:47

Have the coming from if the

1:25:49

plans for the future is the

1:25:51

keep developing a mystical writers A

1:25:54

of air since as you know

1:25:56

we have all their chain right

1:25:58

we have their that decency. Mexico,

1:26:00

we have the junior categories,

1:26:03

developing categories, and

1:26:06

Europe have the under 23 categories. And

1:26:09

the main goal is that in 2026,

1:26:12

we want to jump to a

1:26:14

pro tour category with

1:26:16

the men's team and hopefully also with the

1:26:19

women's team. And of

1:26:21

course, this is the idea. Hopefully, we can make

1:26:23

it work. For 2029, we want

1:26:25

to achieve to jump to the

1:26:27

world tour. Well chaps,

1:26:29

that was just a few

1:26:32

highlights, a sort of summary of

1:26:34

the Isac del Toro story. I

1:26:36

was speaking to Luis and Andy

1:26:38

and Ramon and also Luis's brother

1:26:41

Alex Srodiguez for a couple of

1:26:43

hours yesterday. And there was so

1:26:45

many fascinating aspects to that

1:26:47

story, how he got into the tour

1:26:50

in the La Vigna last year. They're

1:26:52

a very resourceful bunch and they've had

1:26:54

to jump through lots of different hoops,

1:26:57

registering the team in San Marino, going

1:27:00

to live in the Czech Republic, Czechia, Rob. And

1:27:04

they are very ambitious, very

1:27:07

passionate, very energetic as you

1:27:09

heard, and they're very proud

1:27:11

of their prodigy, Isac del

1:27:14

Toro. Alex Srodiguez,

1:27:16

who we didn't hear from there,

1:27:18

he talks about Isac

1:27:20

del Toro's qualities as a rider. And it

1:27:22

was interesting to hear him just

1:27:25

talk about not being surprised by the

1:27:27

manner, the kind of extraordinary, very surprising

1:27:29

for us manner in which Isac del

1:27:32

Toro took his stage win at

1:27:34

the Tour Down Under. This is a young rider

1:27:36

who's been touted, talked about as a climber, won

1:27:38

the Tour de La Vigna, and

1:27:40

won with this very explosive sort of

1:27:43

finishers attack. I think it was

1:27:45

stage two of the Tour Down Under. And Alex

1:27:47

Srodiguez said that he wouldn't

1:27:49

have been surprised to see Isac del Toro

1:27:51

win almost a bunch sprint in the Tour

1:27:54

Down Under. He's that fast. We've

1:27:56

seen How versatile Tade Pogacio

1:27:58

has been over the years. Last few years

1:28:01

on know compasses already been made.

1:28:03

We don't to get ahead of

1:28:05

ourselves at this point but state's

1:28:07

gonna be fascinated ever next few

1:28:09

months justice just to see what

1:28:11

direction effective total develops. By.

1:28:13

Yoda lot about the disparate work ethic, grass

1:28:16

belief and a humility. old put together there,

1:28:18

but there's no substitute for talent is there.

1:28:20

And when I was watching not that down

1:28:22

on the stage it's you. almost do want

1:28:25

to stop the cell say that because you

1:28:27

know the press is gonna put on. plus

1:28:29

it looks like pull that it looked like

1:28:31

Pulitzer Attack. You know those styles got something

1:28:34

to do it anywhere in the same jersey

1:28:36

the things like that but it was highly

1:28:38

impressive and it's it's hard not to to

1:28:41

wish them all the best and old That

1:28:43

Mexican. Road racing can become a

1:28:45

big thing because the enthusiasm the

1:28:47

just used our. Of all that

1:28:49

stuff though, it's on you. Done

1:28:51

it was brilliance. Invade Rob earn

1:28:53

them. Well that's a smart. Concludes

1:28:55

today's episode. With

1:28:57

com Center of World for the weekend. Runner.

1:29:01

You can tell I'm very excited! I

1:29:04

will be watching. I'm going to try. I'm going

1:29:06

to come to give it a go or they've

1:29:08

been awesome. A plane on from as good as

1:29:10

a plus for the yard and another thing off

1:29:13

the plane on Sunday some Gonna time was the

1:29:15

practical was services for at least for as long

1:29:17

as it's a lease. For as long as the

1:29:19

some suspense in the men's race this is one

1:29:21

the problems is like across the suspense city when

1:29:24

Matthew Vaughn the pool is riding often ends in

1:29:26

the first few minutes in the opening salvos. The

1:29:28

opening blows ah I'm hopefully that won't be the

1:29:30

case but ghosts. And misfortune wouldn't wish

1:29:32

this upon him. but misfortune can strike

1:29:35

at any point worse or them. Every

1:29:37

race has to be ridden. Yeah.

1:29:39

Those pesky polls that the exact another riders

1:29:41

from Poland us we with a house for

1:29:44

the move objects that that is a couple

1:29:46

of trees there until they don't have bowl

1:29:48

standing the size of course. but as a

1:29:50

lot of priests might be tricky those threesome

1:29:53

the house of are less and will last

1:29:55

thing but in not Benidorm race wins on

1:29:57

the pool. is coming back from his first

1:29:59

pro. up the hill there, it

1:30:01

looked like he was just going to ride past

1:30:03

everybody and ride away to victory, he was that

1:30:06

good. So yeah, anything can happen, you never know.

1:30:09

Like Renate was saying, the Ventura Narts of

1:30:11

this world, the nurses and people, that will

1:30:13

be ready and waiting. And in the

1:30:15

women's race as well, you know, you've got probably

1:30:17

the entire front row is going to be Dutch,

1:30:19

isn't it? But even Katablanca Vash as well, she

1:30:21

was up there in August, so you just never

1:30:23

know, anything can happen. Indeed. It

1:30:27

has been a delight, Chaps. Chaps, it's

1:30:29

been a pleasure and we will be

1:30:31

welcoming you both back, I'm sure, in

1:30:33

the coming months or coming weeks. In

1:30:35

the meantime, enjoy your various assignments and

1:30:38

Rob, you're off virtually to Valencia.

1:30:40

Yes, start. And come

1:30:42

with us at Valenciana and Renate, you're off

1:30:45

to the Algarve. So... Si.

1:30:48

Por favor. No, no, thank

1:30:50

you. Great stuff. Thanks, Ciao.

1:30:52

Ciao. Adios. The

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