0:19

Hello and welcoming you after a weekend

0:21

when not for the first time the

0:23

haters will say la Noi our or

0:26

boredom one the date some Ramo on

0:28

course referring to the highlight of Italian

0:30

pop culture of every year San Remo

0:32

Music Festival and the name of the

0:34

victorious song by Angelina Mango. And speaking

0:36

of female singers also after Sunday when

0:39

Taylor Swift touchdown was the biggest story

0:41

of the Superbowl was her private jet

0:43

arriving in Las Vegas from Tokyo. My

0:45

name's Daniel for you or I am

0:47

the host of this episode. Of the

0:50

Cycling Podcast in which we will

0:52

attempt to stave off your boredom

0:54

and certainly give you a carbon

0:56

neutral overview of the last week's

0:58

events in professional cycling. Joining me

1:00

today is a probably wounded Detroit

1:02

Lion i fear his team having

1:04

lost in the playoffs to the

1:06

Forty Niners he went on to

1:08

lose to the Kansas City Chiefs

1:10

on Sunday. It is the Motown

1:12

Maestro as it does out. La

1:14

Mondiale was. Laurie. Will Boss

1:16

who started his season in Provence of the

1:18

weekend and Larios was going to say and

1:21

your intro the most promiscuous Manning podcasting you're

1:23

a Disgrace Laurie Heavier which podcast how The

1:25

Realist as Which Point went Where else can

1:27

they He. He. This week. Well

1:31

I was a guest on the

1:33

Barbie Onions podcast the other week,

1:35

but you know I would say

1:37

hosting vs. Get. Thing is different,

1:40

you can from both throws up as

1:42

much you like. Enlarge S a G

1:44

debuted your season. At

1:46

the top of provost the weekend I mean

1:48

we writing for as it does out with

1:50

a cat monitors around them on the other.

1:52

Or do we moonlighting for us for someone

1:55

else? And

1:57

I was with my team together. And as you

1:59

deserve a lot. The out area. And

2:01

them were you read pretty well as

2:03

well. We'll we'll discuss that later. End

2:05

podcast adding did your team is riding

2:08

pretty well as thought the season pretty

2:10

well. Those are joining us today. Someone

2:12

who the last time on the podcast

2:14

had the audacity to mention track racing

2:16

to strike and route policy here so

2:18

he's on very thin ice today it's

2:20

his journalist he did the last week

2:22

of the toward from to the last

2:24

year and have been making regular appearances

2:26

of with some special assignments of next

2:28

few months. It is young Richard Abraham

2:30

on the Queen's Young which. Had a

2:32

room for uma be be youngest real house

2:34

not as the plus the coast like Laurie

2:36

the younger real high school had on the

2:38

put our high standards with how I think

2:41

he understands. Are you

2:43

can learn? A

2:46

thing Laurie's an old rider. How

2:48

about yet on earth? Ages, relatives

2:51

and whatever cycling say the long

2:53

since you're Young podcast of I

2:55

would be I'd be lying on

2:57

my retirement. Career. If

3:00

I were a rider I think. That.

3:02

Said Laurie how you are holding a

3:05

lawyer. And thirty

3:07

three. In.

3:11

Many. Many summers left in you.

3:13

Those are your. They're younger, the

3:15

same. As

3:18

saying, You're. I your retirement. Come

3:20

on man, whom you've of have more

3:22

success. We're going to be

3:25

talking, it has been up with some. we

3:27

got a few more years near. let's hope

3:29

we can be so keep it by returning.

3:31

listen to podcasts as indeed it's been a

3:33

theme throughout the the off season the winter

3:35

as is often the theme of the wintertime

3:38

friends like it starts. We have got so

3:40

much to get through and the news roundup.

3:42

I'm so much racing on the moment. too

3:44

much racing. Top some Laurie I'm joking aside,

3:46

you can only race in one place, a

3:48

one team at a time, but am it

3:51

is tough to keep up. Certainly from likes

3:53

of Richard. And me on

3:55

this week was stop appeared

3:57

whether a multiple states. Races

4:00

every week. much for one day

4:02

race several weeks yeah quite difficult

4:04

to stay on top the or

4:06

I'm but we will get the

4:09

to promote out the way immediately.

4:11

Mine for the will return to

4:13

that post that raced in part

4:15

to on well large. It's an

4:17

easy want because much Pedersen basically

4:19

cleaned up winning first three stages

4:21

and fifty fifth from last day

4:24

when tom been as broke off

4:26

Israel premise heck rained in a

4:28

Raimi Allah person costs b. C

4:30

C Instantly four minutes and twenty seconds

4:32

clear of our own Lawrence Whoop ass.

4:34

He was eighteen flurries smoking some top

4:37

twenty there and you see, I points

4:39

for that are. Three.

4:42

Sorry for em said saying

4:44

what are you aware of

4:46

that. Before the

4:48

phone I. Am

4:51

in no of on his be honest,

4:53

I didn't think I would be in

4:55

the top twenty a. D. C. because

4:58

ah yeah me to display the crosswind

5:00

the. Yeah.

5:02

I mean I did run the from the first day

5:04

in and second day. It was.

5:07

Terrain. So. Terrible.

5:09

Conditions and see eyes And

5:12

really. Dc. Wasn't anything I was

5:14

thinking about of and yeah love We were

5:16

in the front of the froth when the

5:18

last day and we ended up getting a

5:20

lot of time on the same group though

5:22

I think the entire group that I was

5:24

in and love being the top twenty Ncc

5:26

so they have another thousand and I were

5:28

to thought about is more are in a

5:30

way of other guys on the team that.

5:34

We. know you're really looking more for

5:36

points and stuff so not to dismiss

5:38

that larry the three three shut ones

5:40

who knows what difference they could make

5:42

at the end of the well hopefully

5:45

not feel team at the end of

5:47

the relegation cycles i'm so of columbia

5:49

next and other i begin to read

5:51

as a more detailed later on risk

5:53

the sister six stages they were my

5:56

missus gaviria to hada osorio cavendish cut

5:58

apart on at a strap or in

6:00

the d c Rodrigo Contreras, the former

6:02

Astana rider, now representing the new Colombia

6:04

team, narrowly took me on ahead of

6:07

Carapaz. Also,

6:09

the word that Colombia chaps, we

6:11

had an important announcement, something which,

6:14

I'll be honest, I was under

6:16

the mishaprehension, had already happened a

6:18

few months earlier, namely EF Education

6:20

Easy Post, Talisman Rigoberto Oran,

6:22

announcing that he will retire at the end

6:24

of the season at age 37. Chaps,

6:27

I felt that he'd announced that months ago, but I

6:30

would obviously jump to head. Richard,

6:35

did that ring bells? No, it passed me

6:37

by if it had been hinted

6:39

at, but no. Well,

6:42

he's definitely now going to retire at Oran. Of

6:45

course, he won stages at the Tour, Giro at

6:47

the World Cup, he won the GP Quebec. In

6:50

fact, he won 14 races in total

6:52

in his career. He also finished runner-up

6:55

overall in the Giro twice and once in

6:57

the Tour de France, that was in 2017.

7:00

He was also second in

7:02

the Olympic road race, of course, infamously some

7:04

would say, in 2012 in

7:06

London. Perhaps as much as his

7:08

victories at home, though, Rodrigo has

7:10

embedded himself in the nation's affections

7:12

as an entertainer, reality TV

7:14

star, Pied Piper for the

7:17

best generation of Colombian riders. He's

7:19

already put his name to an 80 episode

7:22

TV series about his life. His own clothing

7:24

brand, he also has Gran

7:26

Fondos restaurants, and he

7:29

will retire, it's pretty safe to say,

7:31

chaps, with the biggest Instagram following of

7:33

any professional cyclist, whopping 2.3

7:36

million at the time of recording, a mere

7:38

277.8 million shy of Taylor Swift. The

7:45

most followed rider in

7:48

professional cycling, chaps. Vigo Berturán. If I'd

7:50

thought about that, probably I might have

7:52

got there in the end, but I

7:55

don't think I'm omitting anyone. I

7:58

Think the next. The

8:00

closest are the likes of said Pagano,

8:03

char and their couple of others in

8:05

them. One point something millions but let

8:07

us let us do it again. Said

8:09

is that but. Not

8:11

too soon to sure. I'm.

8:14

Peter. Singer So he has been

8:16

racing racing preparing for a mountain

8:18

bike racer The weekend he was

8:21

looking pretty though at I Am

8:23

I was glad to notice I'm

8:25

Richard may be fun while on

8:27

toes says about a man eaten

8:29

them decent due diligence on instagram

8:31

followings and next up is a

8:34

man. That race

8:36

will finish. On Wednesday morning

8:38

tour of a Man stage when

8:40

is so far that Caleb Ewan

8:42

of Geico a Lula Finfisher black

8:44

of you a team Emirates who

8:46

instead lead author when the must

8:48

Muscat classic couple of days earlier

8:51

suit out Quick steps own baby

8:53

fi Norm of earlier of this

8:55

early season nineteen year old pool

8:57

money and. A Maori

8:59

cup yo have a cat

9:01

being be hotels time recording

9:04

this a black. Held

9:06

holds a three second lead on

9:08

T C and nuts with the

9:11

final day so dance on Green

9:13

mountains.com Another stage race last week

9:15

in Turkey's Tour of Untidy Up

9:17

and went give you all stage

9:20

when it's by will take they

9:22

was very encouraging week for it's

9:24

elite audience there are just taking

9:27

a clean sweep of the final

9:29

podium and twenty or on twenty

9:31

one year old timey to P.

9:33

Ghazali of Poteat com a stop

9:36

triumphing. Pickens all is from more

9:38

Bang your in the vault ten

9:40

Nina nice more Get all our

9:42

country for anyone I fe waves

9:44

or interested in that so think.

9:47

Chaps final stage race to tell

9:49

you about the first one on

9:52

the Twenty Twenty Four. Women's world

9:54

Thought Hollander the you a tool

9:56

for stages thirty one by lowering

9:58

the we bus. Queen Beds were

10:00

my the queen of the racing waiting

10:03

lotta capacity and on the final day

10:05

and upset with Amber Crap of Spj

10:07

Suez taking only the second when of

10:09

her pro career. Path

10:12

keep winning their monthly states to ship.

10:14

Wow, speak or suppose that was more

10:16

of what we saw at the Toward

10:18

Fonts Farm last year. I'm seems very

10:20

strong on to my last day of

10:22

course not noted is a climber bus.

10:26

Richard. Is a lot of people. Talking

10:28

about sooner has she's becoming more of

10:30

a climber? becoming a this a while

10:33

while fan art of the whims post

10:35

on not really was into compare female

10:37

right to smell right it's but him

10:39

and others. Another thing that struck me

10:41

about women's racing of next few months

10:43

next year was Harrys. The courses are

10:46

going to start getting harder and harder

10:48

so Capecchi might become. Better. Climbing,

10:50

but stunt doesn't necessarily mean

10:52

she'll start winning. Tour.

10:54

De France, Germany, Italians on and for yeah

10:56

I think than what we saw with confetti

10:59

last year from from the Or to France

11:01

rothys the world's is that. See.

11:04

As much as wait, I really. Yeah.

11:10

I think I would be surprised if

11:13

we see some authorizes from her issue.

11:16

Yeah when they with women Sienese is

11:18

always so interesting. just because the whole

11:21

scene changes is still changing How much

11:23

faster rate than the men's seen? I

11:25

always get impression that he had. The

11:27

races themselves are going to change a

11:30

lot of the next year's and as

11:32

can us also the landscape quite significantly

11:34

am. Next shots one day

11:36

Races okay quickly the West are alive.

11:39

I see on moods the I was

11:41

somewhat dominated I would say Laurie

11:43

by your decathlon as he does out

11:45

t my Ben O'connor who attacked on

11:48

the As.in a style galore and sixteen

11:50

kilometers from the finish and solar

11:52

to victory it's not Was on Saturday

11:54

the same day on the other side

11:57

of the Iberian Peninsula. I'm also in

11:59

this. His first race of the

12:01

season he was Bangkok Banner Comedy and

12:03

what's the office Am rental able to

12:06

pull the ramp time nepal things up

12:08

The see a that's Hamptons classic. Getting

12:10

bored with Fifty Five Clumps discovered taking

12:12

Office A Me time to them Renco

12:15

times he's fine. a margin of victory

12:17

their me one minute, forty eight seconds

12:19

more on that later in the So.

12:22

Then. Finally rounding off the

12:24

round up, two more days or

12:27

team A one day is in

12:29

Spain. The classic out there are

12:31

many out one by or La

12:33

Croix on Sunday and then yes

12:36

today that was a Monday. The

12:38

rather magnificence, classy, saw their high

12:40

end but I saw instead your.

12:43

The. As this races was fast

12:46

building a reputation as bit of

12:48

a Spanish that are the beyond

12:50

cam the province of high end

12:52

of course home to sixty million

12:54

olive trees counting for between twenty

12:56

twenty five cent of the world's

12:58

olive oil legacies. Remember a riveting

13:00

conversation with Joe Dombrowski about this

13:02

is a while to couple years

13:04

ago and race they did a

13:06

pretty much chance ending mechanical for

13:08

want been out of crucial moment

13:10

sides of losses World Gravel championships

13:12

there. But we also saw

13:14

a very fine team performance from

13:16

your team Laurie courtesy of Nicole

13:18

Up put on and bus stop

13:20

or source who was second however

13:23

emphatic. winner in the and was

13:25

increasingly impressive Spanish National champion or

13:27

yeah to Canales of Mommy Star

13:29

who like your team flurry of

13:31

had a very good start two

13:33

seasons and a large you went

13:35

racist states to get to what's

13:37

your teammates stressing that stuff in

13:39

among among the olive trees mommy

13:42

olive groves in Hyun. No

13:45

actually, I

13:48

had to go as is and second

13:50

for my car so unfortunately I miss

13:52

it. But as Isis is time for

13:54

the first license that life is it.

13:57

But I also has to say it's been.

14:00

significantly more difficult to watch bike

14:02

racing this year after the fall

14:04

of the GCN Plus app. So

14:07

I'm still trying to decide what to

14:10

do as a solution. Larry,

14:13

that was the first

14:15

significant race that's going

14:17

to combine road and

14:20

gravel. Of course, there are a few

14:22

of them on calendar nowadays. I've

14:24

heard a couple of riders talk

14:26

about how these races, so Hayenne

14:28

and Stade Bianche, are going to

14:30

be important testing grounds because of course

14:32

we've got a white road

14:35

stage in the Tour de France and teams

14:37

will be testing out equipment and so on

14:39

and so forth at those two races, Hayenne

14:42

and Stade Bianche. And much talk about gravel,

14:44

knobbly tyres, that sort of thing at team

14:46

camps this winter? No.

14:49

I mean, there's

14:53

no way you could be riding knobby tyres,

14:55

but yeah, I guess you'd be thinking

14:58

about going to a 30, maybe

15:01

even some teams 32, but I

15:03

would say most teams would probably be on 30s and even

15:05

some maybe on 28s. Yesterday

15:08

there was something like 17 or

15:10

18k of gravel. It

15:12

looks like jumbo, I don't know, just from photos, it

15:15

looked like they were on maybe 30s, but

15:17

you know, it's not like a ton of

15:20

gravel. Just from photos, just from the negatives.

15:22

What a wonderfully low-fi way. If anyone could

15:24

go back to that low-fi way of following

15:26

professional cycling, just examining

15:28

still photos. I

15:31

try to look at all the little details,

15:33

so yeah. I

15:36

mean, I'd be surprised if I was wrong, but yeah. I

15:40

think it's just, it's not like there

15:42

are crazy details, but probably, maybe

15:48

some teams would try to ride

15:50

more puncture-proof tyres, but that

15:52

comes at a big cost too. I

15:54

would say really the only difference would be like 30 or 32s or

15:56

28s. Do

16:01

you think, Larry, it would be fair to

16:03

say that more riders have got gravel bikes

16:05

at home that they're riding a bit more

16:07

regularly? So the idea of using

16:10

these races to actually prepare riding

16:12

on the gravel is maybe, it's

16:14

important in a how do you function in a race context,

16:16

but a bit less important for how do you handle

16:18

a bike on that kind of stuff? I

16:23

would say that of the road pros,

16:25

very few guys have gravel bikes. I don't know, maybe

16:27

10% of the guys. I

16:30

don't think a ton of guys are doing gravel

16:34

at home because our training is

16:36

so specific. But

16:40

the funny thing to me was last

16:42

year when I did an unbound and

16:44

I had the full out gravel

16:47

bike with, I think I had 40C

16:49

tires, knobby gravel

16:51

tires, is that I

16:53

realized I was like, this is actually way

16:55

easier than Strada Bianche because Strada Bianche, you're

16:57

on a road bike with

17:00

28 or 30 tires and

17:03

it's really loose gravel. So

17:05

yeah, it's kind of funny

17:07

because people talk a

17:09

lot about gravel. Now, I mean, I heard

17:11

that the gravel world championships was quite a

17:13

bit more technical last year, but for

17:16

the non-technical gravel races,

17:18

actually Strada is more

17:21

challenging in terms of

17:23

bike handling. It was

17:25

interesting champs that the Serenissima gravel race

17:27

in the Veneto last autumn, quite a

17:29

lot of the teams, I spoke about

17:32

this at the time, quite a lot

17:34

of the teams who entered just didn't

17:36

have gravel bikes with them. Their

17:39

teams kind of couldn't be bothered to send gravel

17:41

bikes or it was just logistically too challenging to

17:44

get them there. We

17:46

sort of saw these riders, Aqeya were one of the

17:48

teams, we saw them at the start and they were

17:50

sort of having fun poked

17:52

at them by other riders on

17:55

the start line. People sort

17:57

of saying, good luck champs, see you in the

17:59

do. and in

18:01

fact they went very well. I

18:04

mean obviously it depends, there

18:07

are big differences, there can be

18:09

a big sort of variation in

18:11

terms of easy gravel and gnarly

18:13

gravel, can't there Larry? But sometimes

18:16

a road bike setup seems

18:19

to suit pretty well, particularly if there are long

18:21

road sections between the gravel.

18:26

100%, I think you lose way too much on

18:29

the road sections if you have a real

18:31

gravel setup. And

18:34

then if you're good at bike handling,

18:36

I don't think it's going to cost you

18:38

too much to have a road setup, or

18:41

closer to a road setup on

18:43

a gravel situation. But yeah, I have to

18:45

say Strata Bianchi is

18:47

no joke in terms of bike handling. Obviously we

18:49

saw that last year with Tom Pinkock, for a

18:52

guy who is such a good bike handler, he

18:54

was just a level above in

19:00

terms of, on the downhill he's

19:02

going to take like

19:04

30 seconds each downhill on the guys

19:07

that he's with. So yeah, it's interesting,

19:09

there's a huge range. That

19:11

officially concludes the news round, but Larry before we

19:13

end part one it would be remiss of me,

19:15

I didn't actually ask you about your Super Bowl

19:18

experience. I mentioned the Super Bowl, I mentioned Taylor

19:20

Swift of course, I mentioned the

19:22

Kansas City Chiefs and the fact that you

19:24

were probably a Detroit line, but as a

19:27

sort of dyed

19:30

in the wall American, your

19:35

Super Bowl experience, tell us

19:37

about it. Captain America, I

19:39

should have said. Americans

19:42

will be ashamed of me that I actually didn't

19:44

watch anything about the Super Bowl, and I

19:46

actually only knew that it happened because I saw

19:49

some things on Twitter from like 16 hours

19:51

before and I was like wow, didn't

19:53

even realize the Super Bowl was the

19:57

day before. So, yeah. Nine

20:00

Unaware that Superbowl happened on Sunday until

20:02

Monday morning. Haven't watched any, but haven't

20:05

watched any bike race heaps. Watch the

20:07

Superbowl terrible candidate to be a guest

20:09

on the said this week. However, hopefully

20:12

hopefully you're paying attention and it's were

20:14

proponents. Of. The weekend we'll

20:16

find out into the minute she. Got

20:19

all sides and got caught in. Got the

20:21

back of the fact that Cpk the Voice

20:23

of Radio Tool to remind us to tell

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those details in the show Notes:

22:17

Bible you're guaranteed path toward speaking

22:19

a new language. Now it's back

22:21

to the multilingual Daniel Frida. Well

22:25

gentlemen, I was teased in part

22:27

One we are going to discuss

22:30

soon. The key talking points off

22:32

very busy week in Fresno Cycling

22:35

lot of races last week. As

22:37

worthy said Laurie you in action

22:39

at the the Mods Pedersen dominated

22:42

Tour of Provence are much much

22:44

better since her promotes a special

22:47

be Lost as well a new

22:49

Laurie. Unfortunately I'm but he brought

22:51

to mind some I read recently

22:54

about. The football at

22:56

them the the great support of all

22:58

time by some estimates pele and how

23:00

it once remarked of policing to drag

23:03

the field with him like an extension

23:05

of his own skin. am much person

23:07

drag the. The road.

23:09

the pellets on everything with him at

23:11

the top provence like an extension of

23:14

his own skin. It looked a bit

23:16

light up to the on stage two

23:18

when he took matters very much into

23:20

his own hands. harm to burn through

23:23

his own team and I dunno if

23:25

if the feeling the person slurry was

23:27

that that particular day turn out to

23:29

be harder than people watch dissipating because

23:32

the temperaments on paper didn't really have

23:34

a set of queen stage. It wasn't

23:36

a mountainous to December that second stage

23:38

I'm. A really good to detonate

23:41

or oh he was detonated

23:43

am embarrassed different ways and

23:45

by different writers say I

23:47

mean I think. in

23:50

general ask your life seeing massage everyone

23:52

knew that in a masters in was

23:54

like the big favor of and and

23:56

sec has a super fit team for

23:58

him on you know at Provence.

24:01

So, you know, first day

24:03

he won the sprint pretty handily,

24:05

but already like that day, I mean, it

24:07

poured rain the whole day, you know, I

24:09

mean, I was riding the front and I

24:11

literally did the entire day in my rain

24:13

jacket. And even while riding the

24:15

front, I was getting cold in a rain

24:18

jacket with plenty of clothing under. So I

24:20

was like, wow, I couldn't imagine how cold

24:22

it must have been in the peloton. And

24:25

by the end of the race, you know, after like,

24:27

you know, there was a big acceleration to catch the

24:29

break right at the end, I drifted

24:31

to the back of the group. And I mean, there were

24:33

guys just exploding everywhere. And so

24:35

I was like, wow, you know, obviously

24:37

the cold had like this huge impact.

24:40

But, you know, in the sprint trek, they

24:42

really showed how good they were with like

24:44

their lead out and everything. And, you know,

24:46

he tried to let Kirsch go. And then

24:48

anyway, he still he crossed the sprint map.

24:51

And then and then yeah, the next

24:53

day was

24:56

even colder and with even more

24:58

rain. And so to be

25:01

honest, it was like, I would

25:03

say the conditions made

25:05

at least half the race because the course

25:08

was hard enough, but it wasn't anything crazy, you know,

25:10

it's something like 2400 2500 meters

25:12

of climbing. And yeah, it was more just everyone was

25:14

freezing, you know, it

25:17

was probably,

25:23

I would have to say it was in

25:25

the top 10 coldest days of my career. And

25:29

you know, I started the race with

25:31

I had a wool base layer arm

25:33

warmers, another

25:35

like, sort of winter

25:38

gilet under my jersey,

25:40

jersey, rain

25:42

jacket. And that was how I started. I started

25:44

to get cold, I put a thermal jacket on

25:46

top of that. So I had,

25:48

you know, something like five layers on, and

25:51

I was still just shivering, even

25:53

to the point where we ended up riding, We

25:56

just we were just the Peloton was on the left side of the

25:58

road. we would ride on the right side of the road. The

26:00

so I'd be in the wind and

26:02

paddle because I guess we were that

26:04

have you know? So I mean everyone

26:06

was shaking and yet we hit the

26:08

last time. Then it was tantalize. Who

26:13

had lag/didn't.

26:15

Die in terms of cold

26:17

air. the icing mad also

26:19

learned to stem or can

26:21

interject bear in in those

26:23

conditions when you find yourself.

26:25

Who when you find yourself

26:27

in those conditions him knowing

26:29

how you have on occasion

26:31

taken inspiration from Mr. David

26:33

Goggins. You know game

26:35

as you know this is it. Any I could have

26:38

become. Sick thrill out of that. Know

26:40

I'd be out of ah I

26:43

was. I saw the forgot to

26:45

remind myself of save a Goggins

26:47

that day so I was in

26:49

Aus in in not the best

26:51

place for awhile. But.

26:55

I. Wouldn't say that I got like. You.

26:57

Know. I was the last or

26:59

the zero I got. Colder. Than

27:01

I did this day. So lesson

27:03

we this as you know, an

27:05

hour long defense But. You

27:07

know there was like a thirty paper by

27:09

down know it's it in the helping. So

27:11

so you our psychos myself through but. Ah

27:14

in, I think I was still

27:16

a victim of the cold. And.

27:19

Every his is. This last time it

27:21

was about in own. Thing

27:23

with both thirty minute climb and.

27:26

Either that was where the race have exploded. And.

27:29

The i think you know if is hop. Ah,

27:33

there was maybe here for twenty

27:35

as. I. Think he amassed his

27:37

can realize that you know attack with

27:39

the best he said and. Our

27:43

offices the best the sense and yet the

27:45

end up in a group up the road. and

27:47

one my summit was there but he said there

27:50

was really nothing they to do it as like

27:52

he does realize like he does as a set

27:54

of highness tempo and then no one could really

27:56

attack and so he's a sound the froth and

27:58

then they were all was content to set on

28:01

his wheel. And apparently behind the group was riding, but

28:03

they still lost a minute to the 10 guys in

28:05

front. And yeah,

28:07

then Mads just dusted them all in the sprint.

28:09

So that day

28:12

he definitely seemed like he was a level

28:14

above everyone. Obviously I didn't

28:16

exactly see it play out, but the

28:19

story sounds pretty impressive. So yeah,

28:22

and then the last day it was

28:24

crosswinds. And

28:28

yeah, they were also there. I think they had

28:30

maybe six guys in the front or five guys

28:32

trying to- And a depleted, a very depleted peloton

28:34

at that point, already Larry. Well, that was the

28:37

other crazy thing was, yeah. So

28:39

I think because of

28:41

this super cold rainy stage, everyone

28:44

was so cold. And then

28:47

when it's raining that hard and you're riding, you know,

28:49

through the middle of farm fields, inevitably

28:52

you eat a bit of cow

28:54

shit off the roads. And I

28:57

think that led to quite a few

28:59

stomach bugs. So we lost our guy who was

29:01

second on GC, Bruno Armourie. He was

29:04

puking the whole night. And when we went

29:06

to the breakfast that morning, Cofidis, they also

29:08

had a guy who had been puking the

29:10

whole night. And

29:12

then when we got to the start

29:15

of the race, it was just, yeah, teams were

29:17

decimated. So I think there were 15 non-starters

29:20

at third road

29:22

stage and another,

29:25

at least 15 guys didn't

29:27

finish. So, you know, those

29:29

conditions really took a

29:32

lot out of people. Larry,

29:35

I mentioned in the

29:37

news roundup, well, I mentioned a couple of

29:39

your teams, good performances so

29:41

far in

29:44

these first few weeks of the season, Benno, Connor, Winnie,

29:46

and Mudfia and the two guys in high end. Joking

29:49

aside, you

29:52

did and the team did look good in performance as

29:54

well. And just talk to us a bit about, We

29:56

obviously checked in a few times in the

29:58

winter. Talked about how

30:01

knew that general sort of frustration

30:03

dissatisfaction wastes new the victory whole

30:05

last year of the team's victory

30:07

home and performances in general And

30:09

we talked about how the team

30:11

would probably look to make a

30:14

few adjustments in a few changes

30:16

and they seem to be working

30:18

hum well as they been. Yemenis.

30:22

I think one thing that made a

30:25

big difference is we sign a lot

30:27

of experience guys so you know I

30:29

was the the last couple years me

30:32

sign really young guys and this year

30:34

they they brought a lot of experience

30:36

and. In even if they're not necessarily

30:39

the guys were winning the race, They kind

30:41

of life. Yeah, bring up the base level

30:43

of the team talking about give our names,

30:45

who to be around erm how? me. To

30:48

Firearms Army or I I mean

30:50

of is Sam. Sam will hopefully

30:53

obviously as who when tally. In

30:56

Army Blossom how he has raised. Yep.

30:58

unhealthy. You know? I think A really

31:00

good addition. Ah, So.

31:03

Yeah I can. I think of the other

31:05

guys but you know I am in there's

31:07

like the say that Anyway we signed my

31:09

a lotta guys with experience really thought writers

31:11

and so I think that's one thing. And.

31:14

Then another thing is is I'm

31:16

in a having the new sponsor

31:18

with the castle on That really

31:20

brought in my fresh motivation for

31:22

everyone you know So everyone's really excited

31:24

about the new equipment in a

31:26

van rise though the by their

31:28

amazing and like the company super

31:30

motivated to do their best for

31:32

us. And. Yeah I mean

31:34

we can really and we can feel

31:36

the difference and is is as them

31:38

is a cool the have like a

31:41

sponsor that they're really present. You know

31:43

the engineers thumbs, all the training camps

31:45

and. It's.

31:49

Just I think it's a satellite this

31:51

cycle that. Yeah. I

31:53

don't know his life. The. Positive vibes.

31:57

innovate have get the ball

31:59

rolling And yeah, and then I think on

32:01

top of that, they tried

32:03

to change the training, a little bit of the

32:05

training camps over the winter, just to do

32:08

a bit more intensity. So we trained

32:10

pretty hard. And I think

32:12

that was just sort of to get

32:15

us really ready. I

32:17

remember one of your appearances on the podcast at the

32:19

end of a training camp, you were a shell of

32:21

a man, Larry. Yeah. or

32:25

the second podcast. I think I also got sick of that

32:27

training camp and was pretty dead. Yeah. So

32:29

you yourself, your training,

32:33

we know we've heard you talk in

32:35

the past about how you occasionally tweak things and

32:37

you're a keen and avid

32:39

reader and researcher about

32:43

training physiology. Any tweaks in what

32:45

you're doing at the moment? Yes,

32:49

I mean, like this winter, the one thing we really

32:52

worked on was sort of just giving me the most

32:54

solid base that we could.

32:56

So the one thing that

32:58

I'm always quite good at

33:00

are tests. So I always

33:02

do big numbers in tests and be a two

33:05

max test, things like that. And

33:08

so the one thing is

33:10

like, I never do the numbers that I do in

33:12

training or in tests in the race. And so for

33:14

us, like the thing that we really have tried to

33:16

work on is, yeah,

33:19

just being able to do that at

33:22

the end of races. So really

33:24

like it's just been a lot of time really

33:28

just working on my endurance. And so I do a

33:30

lot of like high zone two kind of training, which

33:33

I guess that's similar to what UAE is really big

33:35

into. And

33:37

yeah, so I just spent a lot of time

33:39

essentially just turning along at 300 watts. And

33:44

yeah, then a little bit of intensity, not

33:46

like a crazy amount of intensity beyond that.

33:50

And to be honest, yeah, I felt really,

33:52

really strong in Provence. So that was really

33:54

cool. So yeah,

33:56

we'll see how it goes, but hopefully it seems like it's

33:59

going in the right direction. One more question

34:01

before we move on. What's your explanation

34:03

for that, Larry? The fact that you

34:05

are like Eddie

34:07

Merckx and Tade Poggart Childs, Love Child

34:09

in training. We know

34:12

this, of course, because you famously, you

34:14

regularly pass Tade in training. But

34:18

what is your explanation? Because this is something you hear in

34:20

a lot of sports. You do get, you

34:23

get athletes, whether it's

34:25

footballers, cricketers, whatever,

34:27

who are the best trainers,

34:30

and then they don't necessarily translate that on

34:32

the field, or they're not quite as good.

34:36

In competition, what would be your explanation?

34:40

You know, I mean, there's a lot more that

34:43

goes into bike racing than just doing big numbers,

34:45

you know. So like I know a lot of

34:47

people that have done insane numbers, and then, you

34:49

know, they don't do anything in the race. And, you know, I

34:51

think part of it is like, there is

34:53

a huge mental aspect to racing,

34:55

you know, it's extremely fatiguing to

34:57

be bumping bars the entire day

35:00

fighting for position, you know, suffering under the

35:02

rain, you know, or like, for example, this

35:04

last day in Provence, you know, it's full

35:06

gas crosswinds, then you have to be there

35:08

exactly at the right moment. And then, you

35:10

know, I mean, essentially, you're just bumping bars

35:13

fighting with guys the entire day. And so

35:16

it's rare that you're gonna be able to

35:18

do your best effort at the end of

35:20

that. But, you know, I think some guys

35:22

are better at dealing with that sort of

35:24

stuff. But, you know, also, I guess it

35:26

is probably the way that you train as

35:28

well, you know, that makes a part of

35:30

it too. So, yeah, we'll see, you know,

35:32

I think the team one thing for me

35:34

is they're like, you know, they just wanted

35:36

me to sort of simplify my

35:39

training, because maybe sometimes I make everything too

35:41

complicated. And so yeah, that's what we've done

35:43

this year. And I mean, so

35:45

far, it seems to be working. But yeah, you know, we'll

35:48

have to wait and see. Really,

35:50

once we get a little bit more into

35:52

the season. Also, a lot of your energy

35:55

is being expended on team mate duty domestic

35:57

duty. So it's really Oh, 100%. No

36:00

surprise you can still feel whether you are

36:02

stronger or not, you know even doing that,

36:04

you know So

36:07

yeah Yeah,

36:10

you know hopefully it's not that I'm waiting too much

36:12

energy podcast I'm slightly

36:14

worried about your you tell me what was a

36:16

an Outline of a

36:18

race program earlier this year and talking about

36:20

all of the sort of pesticides

36:23

and other effluent that you've been Or

36:25

that not necessarily you but the rest of the

36:27

peloton has been unwittingly imbibing

36:29

and people getting sick I'm

36:33

slightly concerned that much like last

36:35

year your race program might get

36:37

rejigged a few times That

36:39

we know you're supposed to do the jury ditalia You'll

36:42

be wanting to get altitude before the jury ditalia. I

36:44

just hope you know I hope you

36:46

don't have to do quite as many as how

36:49

many race days was it last year? 89

36:51

in the end pretty much 90 years like 89. Yeah Apparently

36:56

I heard that like the

36:58

UCI apparently contacted the team that I did

37:01

too many races So if you're being really

37:03

fine, but no one no

37:05

one contacted me about this. So this was

37:07

this was just This

37:10

was the rumor Larry

37:12

did you see did you catch up

37:14

on the story about a was a

37:17

beyond where the Movistar? team

37:19

manager's suggestions about how to improve

37:21

and change cycling ie

37:24

one suggestion was substitutes

37:26

possibly in ground to us now I I Read

37:29

not so much the original story, but I

37:31

read the reaction to the original story sort

37:33

of a was a baby mop And

37:36

I must admit I felt pretty sorry for him

37:38

because I you know rich and I know how

37:40

these things work A

37:43

was a beer was in Columbia and there was

37:45

there were a group of journalists there and

37:47

what they probably did he probably Agreed

37:50

to you know go off After

37:53

lunch with these journalists have a bit of a

37:55

sit-down with them and just sort of shoot the

37:57

breeze and it the quotes were

38:00

very much those of someone in my

38:02

mind who was just shooting the breeze.

38:04

Oh, I don't know. What

38:06

could we do? Let's, how about substituting

38:08

Grand Tours for example. And of course,

38:11

this gets transcribed immediately

38:13

and then it gets translated into

38:15

five different languages and it's as

38:17

though this is El Cebio's grand

38:19

plan, his wonderful manifesto for the

38:21

future of professional cycling. And if

38:23

he probably didn't intend it in

38:25

that way, it was literally

38:27

the first thing that came into his head, I would suggest.

38:30

However, any thoughts? So,

38:33

I was like, oh, those

38:36

aren't bad ideas. And I

38:39

was honestly more surprised to see

38:41

that like, he seems to be somewhat forward

38:43

thinking because, you know, I mean, he's been

38:45

in the team, I mean, he's been in

38:48

the sport longer than maybe

38:50

anyone currently in terms

38:53

of like managers, stuff like that. So

38:56

to really be open to ideas

38:58

like that and to change, to me, that's

39:01

cool. I mean, I respect that because I'm

39:03

like, well, here's a guy who, you know,

39:05

he's been here forever and he's not like,

39:07

wow, this is how we've always done it

39:09

and this is how we should keep doing it.

39:11

It's like, yeah, why not change some things? You

39:14

know, whether, I mean, whatever, you know, you can

39:16

hammer out the details later, but I

39:18

mean, that's pretty cool. I mean, I

39:20

mean, I'm not against

39:22

having substitutions and grand tours or, you

39:25

know, obviously you'd have to like really

39:27

hammer out the details, but yeah, you

39:29

know, I mean, shortening grand tours, having

39:31

substitutes, I don't think it's the worst

39:33

thing. So I think it's

39:36

cool that he is open to change. I'd

39:38

make you write four weeks, you bunch of

39:41

snowflakes. Right,

39:44

chat. Sorry, it's gone, Rich. I was

39:46

going to say what

39:48

it kind of makes me wonder

39:50

is like, what are the

39:53

kind of like non-negotiables from cycling's point

39:55

of view? And the more we talk

39:57

about like the idea of

39:59

a a sort

40:02

of league funded by the Saudis

40:04

or whatever or reforming the calendar of

40:06

something like what is the essential

40:08

part of the sport that we

40:11

can't change? You know, do

40:13

we are we clinging on to

40:15

something like no substitutions in

40:17

Grand Tours because of tradition? Or

40:21

is that something that we kind of think is actually

40:23

essential to what this sport is and what makes it

40:25

different? I mean at its heart it

40:27

still has to be an endurance sport

40:29

doesn't it? I mean I said was it last week

40:31

or the week before that if

40:34

you were to be hyper critical

40:36

or pedantic you would say that

40:40

it's already changed hugely because stages used to be 320 kilometers

40:42

long and Larry I think you'd

40:45

agree that you know if stages today

40:48

were 320 kilometers long you'd get a

40:50

different kind of race different kind of

40:52

rider winning those races the sort of

40:55

the explosive van der Poors Pogachas they

40:57

well I've used the word

40:59

already they are explosive their level of

41:01

endurance is

41:04

similar to the rest of the field but

41:07

they can can sprint upper climb or at

41:09

the end of a race

41:11

in in a different way from the

41:15

majority of other rides in the peloton so the rate so the the

41:18

sport has already changed but I do think

41:20

that I mean you you

41:22

can also mock Patrick Lefebvre he's

41:26

someone who's seen as old-fashioned and

41:29

retrograde in some respects or has been

41:32

depicted in that way but some

41:35

of the of his comments in

41:37

reaction to the Unsouhe proposal he

41:40

talked about a big part

41:42

of your

41:44

team's success is being resilient being

41:46

able to switch to a plan

41:48

B crashing getting sick a part

41:50

of it and availability

41:53

being the best ability and

41:57

that's a key sort of selection

41:59

criteria area isn't it? The most

42:01

resilient guy particularly I'm talking about grand

42:03

tours now should

42:06

be the winner. Yeah

42:08

and I guess we don't often

42:11

see or hear the stories of like

42:13

riders being sick in a company

42:16

or hotel in Provence or

42:18

something like this. It's not

42:20

like anybody really wants that

42:22

in the sport but on the

42:24

other hand those days where it

42:26

is six degrees and

42:28

raining in February um

42:31

that's kind of I think a lot

42:33

of people would argue that it makes up

42:35

the sport as much as a sunny day

42:37

in July in the Tour de France does

42:40

and as soon as you start to take that away you

42:42

know you will what are you really kind of left

42:45

with in this sport. Race

42:47

seems like boxing says Patrick Lefebvre just because

42:49

you're hanging on the ropes at a certain

42:52

moment doesn't mean that you lose the match.

42:55

We need you hanging on the ropes Larry for as

42:57

much to the bitter end. I

43:01

mean I wonder you know I'm

43:04

completely with you Larry in that like

43:07

I mean I've kind of exercised

43:09

my own like extreme weather protocol

43:11

today because it's like five

43:13

degrees and hammering it down outside. I don't

43:16

want to be out in that at all. I

43:18

wonder the

43:21

more that riders spend

43:23

time on kind of

43:25

training camps certainly

43:28

going to places where they could where they're

43:30

pretty much guaranteed good weather. Do

43:33

you think that as a whole maybe the peloton

43:35

is getting less resilient to those sorts of conditions

43:37

that you might encounter in Provence

43:39

in February or you know is that

43:42

a step far? I

43:44

mean to be honest I think a huge part of

43:46

it is also just you know your clothing and equipment

43:48

and stuff so you know I mean there's

43:51

only a few brands that really have

43:54

really the highest level you

43:57

know rain gear and stuff so you know that makes a really

43:59

big difference. too. So yeah

44:01

other teams could invest in

44:03

really dialing that in. But

44:06

yeah I mean I don't really think I would

44:09

say almost more like you probably

44:12

saving your mental bullets if you're not

44:14

riding in the rain all the time

44:16

you know because it's mentally fatiguing. But

44:18

yeah maybe you do lose a little bit of

44:20

like oh what should I wear today because you're

44:23

not training in five degrees in rain. But

44:25

I think you know it's

44:27

important to rearrange

44:29

your training if you have the possibility

44:32

to or you know to go place

44:34

warmer places because like you're gonna be

44:36

able to train more regularly and more consistently

44:38

the less time you spend in like terrible

44:41

conditions because like you probably will stay in

44:43

good health and over the course of the

44:45

season you know you'll be able to

44:47

just be more consistent. So

44:50

you know I still think I

44:53

don't think you should never train in the rain but I

44:56

think if you can avoid it's probably not the

44:59

worst thing. But yeah I mean obviously race is

45:01

the raisin. You know obviously some days you're gonna

45:03

have to you're gonna have to

45:05

do it. But yeah you

45:07

know I know one who's

45:09

ever get there's always gonna be someone who's unhappy right you

45:12

know there's gonna be someone to tell me I'm soft

45:14

and you know yeah everyone would be dying

45:16

to do what I'm doing and you know

45:19

they would go out in the rain and

45:21

it would be an interesting experiment they wouldn't

45:23

allow you to have a David Goggin style

45:28

team principal who one year

45:31

took his team I don't know where would you take your

45:33

team for a training camp

45:35

instead of a coffee burger. What about

45:37

either the Saxo or the Kilimanjaro

45:39

camp? Well maybe somewhere

45:41

in England in January like guaranteed of grim

45:47

weather that could work probably

45:49

quite affordable. I think the Motorola

45:52

well the training

45:54

camps have got gradually they've gone

45:56

further and further south haven't they over

45:59

the years. and that's partly, it's

46:01

partly been due

46:03

to climate change to a certain

46:06

extent, but there are certain places that

46:08

used to be very much fixtures in terms

46:10

of training camps where teams would go,

46:12

they've kind of been wiped off the

46:14

map, like Tuscany, for example, in Italy,

46:16

but that's also partly due to cheap hotel

46:19

deals on the Costa Planca in Spain.

46:21

I believe that's one reason why a lot

46:24

of teams go down there now. And chaps,

46:26

we should move on. Talking of the Iberian

46:28

Peninsula, Remco Evenable made his debut,

46:30

his 2024 debut at

46:32

the Fiera Champions Classic on

46:35

Saturday. I

46:37

said the race itself

46:40

was Remco doing Remco things,

46:42

just pretty much obliterating everyone,

46:45

winning by one minute 48 seconds,

46:48

tacked with 55 kilometers to go. Not

46:51

that much of a surprise. Looking at

46:53

the field there, it was a pretty decent

46:55

field, but no match for Remco. Chaps,

46:58

of course, this is the start of Remco's

47:00

build up to the Tour de France. He's

47:02

gonna be riding the Tour for the first

47:04

time. People are talking about a big

47:06

four, Remco, Roglic,

47:09

Pogac, Char, Vinguza. However,

47:11

it hasn't escaped ours,

47:14

or a lot of people's notice that those four

47:16

will be going up against each other for the

47:18

first time in 2024 at

47:20

the Tour de France, which with

47:23

everyone, or with

47:25

the one cycling, or Super

47:27

League project being

47:29

very much on the agenda this winter, a

47:31

lot of talk about how to make cycling

47:34

more appealing, more attractive. It

47:37

begs the question, it is one obvious

47:39

way in which cycling can

47:42

make itself more marketable, more

47:45

sellable, more lucrative.

47:48

To get the, would it be to

47:50

get those guys, big four, the very

47:52

best riders in the world, racing against

47:54

each other sort of every week, or

47:57

at least a couple of times a month? Before

48:00

the Fieriata at Champions Classic, on

48:03

Friday there was a bit

48:05

of a press audience

48:09

with Remco and

48:11

I thought I'd ask Remco about this, but what

48:13

I wanted to know was, do

48:15

the top riders want to race each other

48:17

every week? Or does it suit

48:19

him to sort of hide

48:21

his cards before the Tour de France

48:24

and not come up against Pogacar et

48:26

al more

48:28

regularly? He didn't really

48:30

answer my question as you're going to

48:32

hear, but this is what he did

48:34

say. Alright Remco,

48:37

there's been a lot of talk

48:39

this winter about the business model

48:41

of cycling and the fact that

48:43

you guys, so you,

48:46

Vinga Gar, Pogacar, Roglic, you won't

48:48

race each other until the Tour

48:50

de France. And a

48:53

lot of people say the way to

48:55

make cycling more marketable would be for

48:57

the best riders like you guys to

48:59

be racing each other more often. Would

49:01

you like to have more direct confrontations

49:04

with those guys before the Tour de

49:06

France? It's a difficult

49:09

question because of course everybody takes

49:13

a bit of his own goals.

49:17

For me, in the first part of the season

49:19

it's always been in function of the Ardennes classics,

49:22

but I don't know, I think for sure we

49:24

will see each other in Dauphiné

49:26

and then three weeks in the Tour, so

49:28

it's already quite a long period of time.

49:30

We will race all together,

49:33

but I mean it's also

49:35

like that day this year we'll focus

49:37

on Giro and Tour together and then

49:39

you cannot do many races before because

49:41

otherwise you will be completely

49:44

out of energy after the Tour. It

49:47

just depends on programs that riders want

49:50

to do because of course for

49:52

me this season looks a bit different with

49:55

Parnice and some other races, but

49:58

I can imagine for somebody to do that. like Jonas or Primoz

50:01

doing those races already for a few years that

50:03

they want to do something else and

50:07

I mean

50:10

it's a bit more of the personal choices that

50:13

bring us together or not. Would

50:15

you like them to be in Portugal

50:17

this weekend? For example, is it more stimulating

50:19

for you when they're there or is there

50:21

a part of you that likes to kind

50:24

of keep that sort of

50:26

hide a bit of your condition until

50:28

the big races? No,

50:30

I think it's always good to have them in the races

50:34

where I will take the start

50:36

line. So for me they

50:39

can start everywhere where they want and also everywhere

50:41

where I will be at the start but I

50:43

think it's like I said

50:45

you cannot ask from a rider

50:49

to take a race because somebody else is

50:51

there. They have to look at their own

50:53

programs and preparations and do what

50:55

they feel best at. Larry, that

50:58

was me trying to extract from

51:00

Remco whether he wanted to race

51:03

Pogacar Vingugar Roglic more regularly. Well,

51:06

we heard there him sort of

51:08

explaining why they weren't all doing

51:10

the same races which we sort of understand

51:12

but I wanted to know would they like

51:14

to? Do you think there's an element of

51:17

a Pogacar who, I

51:20

don't know whether it's just a competitive

51:22

animal in each of them who want

51:25

to be racing each other regularly

51:27

or want to know where they're

51:29

at in relation to each other

51:31

or do you think that there

51:33

is a natural kind of caginess

51:35

which makes them think better to

51:37

keep that for July? I don't

51:39

know if like they really care that much

51:42

to be honest. You know, I mean if

51:44

I'm Pogacar I'm like well I'm gonna

51:46

beat them anyway. Do you know what I mean? Like I

51:49

would say to me the only guy who

51:52

I would be less sure of

51:55

of those four would be like Remco because

51:57

you know I would say in terms of like like

52:00

GC, the other

52:02

guys are probably a step above. Whereas,

52:06

but I don't think that

52:08

makes the racing any less exciting. For

52:10

example, in the Vuelta last year, Remco

52:13

fell out of the race, but he probably is the

52:16

person who made the race the most exciting. You know

52:18

what I mean? Just the

52:20

way he was riding was

52:22

so cool. So, he doesn't

52:24

need other guys there to

52:27

make the race exciting. And I

52:30

think the only thing that would

52:32

worry me is if these four guys race together

52:34

every single week. It's like, what happens

52:36

when there's gonna be four guys you're seeing on

52:38

TV? You know what I mean? Like,

52:41

there's nothing else happening in the

52:44

race because they're just such a

52:46

level above everyone. So, there

52:49

are other people in cycling than these guys. So,

52:52

it's nice to see. To us, Larry, this

52:55

is the big four and the rest of

52:57

you are just podcasters. Exactly,

52:59

exactly. Well, at least we have

53:02

some other talent. But

53:04

yeah, I think it's interesting

53:07

to see some of the young guys stepping

53:09

up and seeing

53:11

them being able to compete with some of these

53:13

guys. I

53:16

think just

53:18

because those big four don't necessarily

53:20

race together all the time, I don't think it

53:23

makes racing that much less exciting. I

53:25

think Pogachar alone at a race

53:27

can still make a race super

53:29

exciting. It can, it can.

53:31

Yeah, just in terms of selling the

53:33

product though, I do

53:36

think that it would be easier to get

53:38

people to tune into a Tour of the

53:40

Past Country if you were billing it. And

53:42

if people have always talked about the story,

53:44

the narrative, for a first time

53:47

fan, if you're dropping them in at the

53:49

Tour of the Past Country, for example, it's

53:52

difficult to convey what that actually means, where

53:54

that fits in. If there

53:57

is only one of those riders there, or if there are two of

53:59

those riders there, riders there. And

54:01

it's quite unusual in sports

54:04

like take skiing

54:06

or tennis and slightly

54:09

different things that do tend

54:11

to revolve around the ground slabs. But in most

54:13

sports, in the gold standard

54:16

series, well

54:18

that is the gold standard series of

54:20

events because the best guys are there.

54:22

In cycling there's only one of those

54:24

events. Yeah,

54:26

but if you're a first-time fan, I mean

54:29

you don't know who is who, right? So

54:31

does it really matter? That's what

54:33

I want. Does it really matter that all the

54:35

four best guys are there because you don't know

54:37

who any of them are? So maybe the race

54:39

can still be exciting without those guys there, or

54:42

with only one of those guys

54:44

there. I think until we really

54:46

build these characters for those people,

54:48

like let's say this Netflix series,

54:51

if we can really build these star characters, then

54:54

yeah, it makes them more exciting. But like, I

54:56

mean, if all we see is the way they race and we

54:59

don't really know anything else about them, unless

55:01

you really know your cycling, I

55:03

mean, I don't think it matters

55:06

that much. Who's who almost? Larry,

55:09

we're gonna move on. But just

55:12

since you mentioned it a couple of

55:14

minutes ago, the Vuelta, last

55:16

year's Vuelta, people will

55:18

obviously talk about that when they

55:21

start thinking about Remco's chances of

55:23

winning his first Tour de France

55:25

or, or, well, finishing

55:27

on the podium, he said on Friday would be

55:29

a dream for him to finish on the podium

55:31

at this year's Tour de France. The

55:34

sort of infamous stage as far as he was

55:37

concerned, the stage to the Tour Mallet, people

55:39

will say that that stage

55:41

exemplified the fact that he is

55:43

going to struggle on long climbs and in the

55:46

really high mountains. However, he really started to struggle

55:48

that day before you even got to the long

55:50

climbs. He struggled at the bottom of the obese

55:52

because where he got dropped. And

55:55

he was sort of, we'll say two thirds

55:57

of the way. Okay, he was kind of out

55:59

out. of the race, um,

56:01

for GC... Way before he should

56:03

have been yet. Yeah. Do

56:05

you think that, would you, you were

56:08

in that race in the world, would

56:10

you read much into that and

56:12

would you see that

56:14

day as justification for

56:17

sort of excluding Remco from the

56:20

real sort of top favourites for the Tour de

56:22

France? No,

56:25

no, I mean I definitely still seem as a top favourite,

56:27

you know, I think unless you're

56:29

in his team or in his camp, you

56:31

have no idea. I mean, I don't

56:33

know, maybe he had like a small stomach bug, maybe, you

56:35

know, I mean it was super hot that day, you know,

56:38

you really don't know the little details.

56:40

So maybe there was some small details

56:42

that like just messed him up

56:45

because obviously it wasn't like he just

56:47

all of a sudden went downhill because the way he

56:49

performed the rest of the well said like, he

56:51

obviously was doing just fine, you know, um,

56:53

he had a bad day but there are

56:55

so many tiny factors that could go into

56:57

that, you know, maybe he didn't need enough

56:59

like the day before, maybe, you know, maybe

57:01

he was like, you

57:03

know, I mean, you really don't know, it

57:06

could have been something even he didn't realise,

57:08

you know, like that he just messed up

57:10

or maybe he fucked shit the night before,

57:12

you know, like there are so many tiny

57:15

details that go into performance and, you know,

57:17

day after day after day in a grand

57:19

tour. It's like, yeah,

57:21

it's really hard to say unless you're really

57:24

close to him, right? So I mean,

57:26

without a doubt, I'd never rule him

57:28

out because, you know,

57:31

I think he's an insane talent and to me

57:33

he has every possible, you know, he could go

57:35

and win the Tour de France

57:37

even this year. So you

57:40

know, one day, yeah, anyone

57:42

can have a bad day, you know, Poca

57:44

char, like, for

57:46

example, in the tour, not

57:49

this past year, but the year before, the one

57:51

day he just fully exploded, he made a few

57:53

mistakes and boom, he had a bad day and

57:55

he lost the race, right? So I

57:58

just think it can happen. for

58:02

there are a million variables that go

58:04

into performance especially in the

58:06

grand tour and yeah maybe just

58:08

like something went

58:11

wrong and that was what led them to

58:13

have that day but I

58:16

wouldn't mean I wouldn't take that

58:18

as like ruling him out for ever

58:21

doing VC in the grand tour. Well

58:29

gentlemen we're going to finish today's

58:31

episode by talking about a couple

58:33

of exotic stage races one in

58:36

the past one

58:38

in the future. Stage

58:40

races in far flung places. The

58:43

tour of Colombia, the word that

58:45

Colombia made its return after how

58:47

long had it been done,

58:50

it was the hiatus, the absence was it one

58:52

or two years that hadn't been organised. Anyway it

58:54

came back in fine style last

58:57

week won by Rodrigo Contreras

59:01

as we mentioned in the news round up

59:03

but the result that will have caught a

59:05

lot of people's eye and

59:07

attention was

59:10

the stage win single stage win

59:12

for Astana

59:14

Kazakhstan's Mark Cavendish.

59:18

Cavendish of course is going for his

59:20

35th Tour de France stage win, will

59:22

be in the summer. Cavendish

59:24

won in Zipacira which

59:27

is a birthplace to Egan Bernal

59:29

and that capped, well

59:31

what looked to be chaps from

59:34

the outside, a pretty fruitful seizure

59:36

for the Astana Kazakhstan team in

59:39

Colombia. They spent about three weeks

59:41

in Colombia doing an altitude training

59:43

camp and then racing the word

59:46

that Colombia. Overseeing

59:48

the whole operation was their new head

59:50

of performance who's joined them this year

59:53

from Sudar Quickstep Vasilis

59:56

Anastopoulos. You've

59:58

heard his voice on the

1:00:00

podcast. before and well on

1:00:03

his return to Europe from

1:00:05

Colombia I spoke to Vasi

1:00:07

about the team stay in

1:00:10

Colombia and also Cavendish's performances

1:00:12

over there and what they

1:00:14

tell us about what's going

1:00:16

to happen in July here is

1:00:19

Vastilis and Astopolos. This

1:00:22

year I think he

1:00:24

has to be on a top shape for

1:00:26

Tour de France there a lot of young

1:00:28

sprinters coming the stages are hard as

1:00:31

we can see year by year the average speed

1:00:33

of a peloton is increasing so

1:00:35

he doesn't need to be only

1:00:37

fast but he needs to be

1:00:40

in an excellent physical condition that's

1:00:43

why he had some experience in

1:00:45

the past with altitude that's

1:00:48

why we decided already from

1:00:50

early on the season like

1:00:53

September October to to

1:00:56

do analysis camp and

1:00:58

try to see how he responds and

1:01:01

we decided that the best place

1:01:04

to do it was Colombia because

1:01:06

of the mild weather and

1:01:11

of a flat parts over there

1:01:13

he could train without

1:01:15

killing his legs as you would do if

1:01:17

he was going to Tade. That's why

1:01:21

we decided to go we went one

1:01:24

week in Medellin Rio Negro which

1:01:26

is 2,100 meters

1:01:28

altitude and then two weeks

1:01:31

in Pia Pia which

1:01:33

is 2,500 meters altitude the

1:01:38

Tour of Colombia came

1:01:41

as a bonus I would say because

1:01:43

when we planned the trip and the

1:01:45

train camp the Tour of Colombia was

1:01:48

not was not announced yet so

1:01:50

after the Tour of Colombia was announced

1:01:53

we find this an excellent opportunity to

1:01:55

bring almost a

1:01:57

whole lead out in there train all together

1:02:00

to do some sprints

1:02:03

and lead-out sessions, to practice a

1:02:05

little bit our

1:02:08

strategy for the race. And

1:02:10

that's what we did. We

1:02:12

had two opportunities for sprints.

1:02:14

She won one of those

1:02:17

two. She was third at the first one. And

1:02:20

to be honest with you, the first one

1:02:22

was a really good lesson for us because

1:02:24

of the opportunity to analyze the stage, to

1:02:29

notify the mistakes the

1:02:31

guys did. And then

1:02:34

we tried to make it as best as

1:02:36

possible on the third stage, which

1:02:38

he won. So

1:02:43

now we have some conclusions and some

1:02:45

data to compare for the upcoming races.

1:02:48

Of course, we missed Balerini because he had

1:02:50

to stay in Europe because of a small

1:02:52

injury. So he

1:02:55

had to use the other

1:02:57

guys, Tehava and Luchenko in

1:02:59

the train. But I

1:03:02

think the outcome was good for us. It

1:03:04

was a positive one. So

1:03:06

a couple of questions on that. Vazey, altitude

1:03:09

camps in Colombia, it's obviously something

1:03:12

that the Colombian riders are familiar

1:03:15

with. But in terms of

1:03:18

information gathering before you went,

1:03:20

making sure that the

1:03:22

routes were good and safe as well,

1:03:24

because we've heard about it

1:03:26

can be quite dangerous at

1:03:28

times, riding, training in

1:03:31

Colombia. I mean, did you have to

1:03:33

do much, and one, who helped you

1:03:35

in sort

1:03:37

of planning the whole trip? Yeah,

1:03:39

of course. I have been gathering in for the

1:03:41

last three years because a lot

1:03:43

of my ex-riders in Quickstep

1:03:47

are doing camps in Colombia, like

1:03:49

Fausto Masnada, Jan Hirth, Onore,

1:03:52

where they are also now in Rio

1:03:54

Negro. So the last two years

1:03:56

I was in contact with them. I was gathering

1:03:58

on the info. I was

1:04:01

following them then of course because I

1:04:03

was the retrainer in Quickstep, so I

1:04:05

had an idea about the

1:04:07

routes and the roads and

1:04:09

the circumstances there. And of course,

1:04:12

Giovanni Lobardi, who was appointed as

1:04:14

the, from the

1:04:16

Organisator of the Tour of Colombia, as the

1:04:19

person to organize the

1:04:21

European teams, logistics and

1:04:24

everything, was a huge

1:04:26

help to us because he found the

1:04:28

hotels. Everybody

1:04:30

says that Colombia is dangerous. I didn't

1:04:34

feel any time, any danger

1:04:36

in there, even though we were

1:04:40

provided by police escort

1:04:43

every day on the rides. But

1:04:47

I never felt that I was in danger at any

1:04:49

point, and we stayed there for four weeks in total.

1:04:53

So I would have done some homework

1:04:55

before we go there regarding the routes

1:04:57

and everything. Mark

1:04:59

made some jokes on social media or in

1:05:02

press conferences about not being able to breathe.

1:05:05

How did he react?

1:05:08

How did he take to the high altitude

1:05:10

from a physiological point of view? Yeah,

1:05:13

it's true that the first two weeks she

1:05:15

was suffering from the altitude. That's

1:05:18

why I had to modify a little

1:05:20

bit his training. But

1:05:23

last, the third week, she was getting better

1:05:25

and better, and the

1:05:27

week of the race, she

1:05:29

was feeling okay. Obviously,

1:05:32

the disadvantage that

1:05:35

the European riders have compared to

1:05:37

Colombians, it's very big

1:05:40

because even though most of the guys

1:05:42

were well acclimated, they

1:05:44

cannot reach the level of

1:05:46

the Colombian riders who are born in 2005,

1:05:48

or 6,000 meters, of course. That's

1:05:52

why the top 10 riders

1:05:55

in the city were on Colombians. Everybody

1:06:00

performed where. Are

1:06:03

those some really good results? And. Now

1:06:06

they're just ready to start the season.

1:06:08

Will see some next week on how

1:06:11

they would perform better. Who

1:06:14

had some really nice feedback from

1:06:16

the artists and generally I see.

1:06:19

As you know, it's been important

1:06:21

in most career. Base. Is

1:06:23

had good winters. I mean generally when he's

1:06:25

had good winters, it's meant a good season

1:06:28

and generally overall, how would you say he

1:06:30

is dealt with the last four or five

1:06:32

months and and what kind of it's condition

1:06:34

is he coming out of the winter in.

1:06:38

I think it was the

1:06:41

first race. That. Soon

1:06:43

after a long time I saw

1:06:45

it in the season like a

1:06:47

beginner. her bright as his way

1:06:49

to. A some

1:06:51

the pointer said the a good winter that's

1:06:54

why would it A lot of strength comes

1:06:56

with it being. For. Example started

1:06:58

with has. To. Train can't

1:07:00

be mad December then I hadn't

1:07:02

read another one than days camp

1:07:04

and generally before was light Columbia

1:07:06

so she was constantly on Train

1:07:09

Comes To Now so I think

1:07:11

she's on the point for wants

1:07:13

to be. She's. An ad

1:07:15

in good shape to start the season. Tests

1:07:18

and and just on the train Vasey

1:07:20

So in the on the day the

1:07:22

mark one was a bit of a

1:07:24

change because I think more covered. Done

1:07:26

a lot of work on the climb

1:07:29

or after the climb before that. so

1:07:31

it's of each a position with case

1:07:33

bow and more cops and some people

1:07:35

who look to that what stance or

1:07:37

are is that something them they might

1:07:39

adopt permanently because more commodities getting about

1:07:41

Odi he still has the experience. The

1:07:43

positioning may be quite as fast as

1:07:46

he was should we read anything into.

1:07:48

That with that just a temporary

1:07:50

solution. Nerds was just as for

1:07:52

our day because before they climb

1:07:54

started their motto had a slut

1:07:56

I saw she was chasing barker

1:07:58

and then there was. split in

1:08:00

the peloton because of the echelons, Mark

1:08:02

found himself discovering some other guys in

1:08:04

the last part of the peloton, the

1:08:07

third group, Morki was there,

1:08:09

so he had to chase for almost

1:08:11

70 k's with the other

1:08:13

guys to come back and then he felt

1:08:16

that he wasn't fresh anymore. So he communicated

1:08:18

immediately with Keesh Bolk, who was already on

1:08:20

the first part of the peloton. And

1:08:23

he was really, really fresh because he hadn't done almost

1:08:25

anything the whole day. So it

1:08:27

was just a temporary decision

1:08:30

and it was really wise

1:08:32

from Mark of I think that

1:08:34

at that point he saw his leadership

1:08:36

and his professionalism,

1:08:39

because he admitted that he was

1:08:41

not fresh anymore. So

1:08:43

immediately he discussed with Keesh Bolk

1:08:45

to change positions on the train

1:08:49

and Keesh did the

1:08:51

last lead out. But that's

1:08:53

not something that we're going to see again

1:08:55

under normal circumstances

1:08:57

in the next races. Okay.

1:09:00

And Vasi just finally talked to me

1:09:02

a bit about the off the

1:09:04

bike experience in Colombia. It looked as though you

1:09:06

were having a pretty good

1:09:08

time over there, all of you, lots of games

1:09:11

of Uno for the

1:09:13

riders. It was an interesting

1:09:15

group, Cav and Morko, very

1:09:17

experienced obviously, predominantly English speaking

1:09:20

riders with the Colombians, with

1:09:22

Tejada and the other

1:09:24

Colombians. But what were some

1:09:26

of your highlights of the trip,

1:09:28

sort of culturally and from a

1:09:30

sort of human perspective? First

1:09:34

of all, Colombia is a fantastic

1:09:36

place. People are also

1:09:38

friendly. So Camus de Arz, really,

1:09:41

really big fans of cycling. I

1:09:44

don't need to say that,

1:09:46

especially Mark was a big

1:09:48

attraction wherever we were going,

1:09:51

either during the rides or coffee

1:09:54

stops. People were coming there for

1:09:56

autographs. It was a bit chaotic,

1:09:58

especially during the race. But

1:10:01

apart from that, we didn't have

1:10:03

any problem. We really enjoyed our

1:10:05

time in Colombia and it became

1:10:07

a tradition for

1:10:09

us to play UNO every night.

1:10:12

So for the last two weeks, UNO

1:10:15

tournament every night. And I

1:10:17

think it was really crucial bringing

1:10:19

the, as you said, the European

1:10:21

guys, the Colombian guys together and

1:10:23

create a really good bond and

1:10:26

a really good atmosphere in the

1:10:28

team. So I

1:10:30

think that's something that we're going to continue for the rest

1:10:32

of the season. Mark can be very

1:10:34

competitive as we know, even when it comes to

1:10:36

things like UNO. I

1:10:39

hope he behaved himself. He

1:10:43

lost some time, so he didn't take it so well, but it

1:10:46

was good fun. Okay,

1:10:48

great stuff. And then just lastly, Vasil,

1:10:50

just remind us of his race program

1:10:53

over the next couple of months. You were Etor

1:10:55

next, is that right? Yeah, I'm

1:10:57

Etor. Venerable

1:11:00

Terenno, Milan

1:11:02

Torino. Then he

1:11:04

has a Belgian one-day races.

1:11:08

He finished his program with a

1:11:10

small break, a training camp in

1:11:12

Greece for two weeks. Tour

1:11:15

of Hungary, another camp in

1:11:17

Sierra Nevada. Tour

1:11:20

de Suisse or Zepel M. Tour, depending

1:11:22

on the stages of Tour de Suisse,

1:11:25

just expect for the announcement of the

1:11:27

stages and then to

1:11:29

the France. Larry,

1:11:31

Cavendish winning in Colombia. Encouraging

1:11:34

start of the season, isn't it? It was

1:11:36

interesting to see his lead-out training working there.

1:11:39

There was a bit of chopping and changing,

1:11:41

more crew moving positions on

1:11:44

the day when Cavendish won and Case

1:11:46

Bowl doing the final lead-out. But yeah,

1:11:49

they're a very experienced outfit, or they

1:11:51

will be at the Tour de France.

1:11:53

So, encouraging, as

1:11:55

I said. Yeah, definitely. I

1:11:58

think it's like... Everyone kind

1:12:00

of wants to write off Cavendish with his

1:12:02

age, everything like that. But I

1:12:05

think he's someone that you can never write

1:12:07

off, you know, and to see that he's

1:12:09

still winning. And yeah, he was winning so

1:12:12

early and, you know, against a guy like

1:12:14

Gaviri, it's not like there wasn't anyone there.

1:12:16

So on top

1:12:18

of that, an altitude, which is not exactly necessarily

1:12:21

his specialty. So yeah, I think it's really

1:12:23

encouraging. And yeah, it gets me excited for

1:12:26

the Tour de France because I'd love to

1:12:28

see him break the record. I

1:12:33

said chaps that we would end today's

1:12:35

episode talking about two exotic stage races.

1:12:37

The other one in the future, which

1:12:41

is going to start on the 18th of February, is the

1:12:43

Tour of

1:12:46

Rwanda. A lot of races taking place in

1:12:48

the next few days. Tour de Rwanda is

1:12:51

not the one that will get the most

1:12:53

attention. But I thought it'd be interesting for

1:12:55

us to discuss it for a couple of

1:12:57

reasons today in the podcast. And

1:13:00

one of those reasons is that

1:13:02

a rider we featured a

1:13:04

few weeks ago, Skabu Girmay,

1:13:06

who he was

1:13:09

the first Ethiopian to ride the Tour

1:13:11

de France and rode for nine seasons

1:13:13

in the world tour. The last

1:13:15

of those seasons with J.K. Alula.

1:13:17

Well, we heard from him a few

1:13:19

weeks ago when his

1:13:21

contract hadn't been renewed with J.K. Alula,

1:13:24

and he was very much hoping, dreaming,

1:13:26

praying that he was going

1:13:28

to be picked up by another world

1:13:30

tour team and be able to continue

1:13:32

his career. Unfortunately, for Skabu,

1:13:34

he wasn't able to get a

1:13:37

contract for 2024. And

1:13:40

well, shortly thereafter, around

1:13:42

about New

1:13:45

Year time, he announced that

1:13:47

he was going to end

1:13:49

his professional career. However, he

1:13:52

Was going to ride one last race

1:13:54

and that last race was going to

1:13:56

be Tour of Rwanda and this would

1:13:59

complete a sort of symbolic journey. any

1:14:01

for Scobee because it was the first

1:14:03

he see race he ever road in

1:14:05

two thousand and ten am. he was

1:14:08

writing them for the you see eyes

1:14:10

welled citing sent a team. He was

1:14:12

fifth on general classification. I'm the opportunity

1:14:15

presented. Itself. For him

1:14:17

to ride for the same team

1:14:19

the he said was starting center

1:14:22

in this year's race and other

1:14:24

said that will be his last

1:14:26

race as a professional cyclists. Last

1:14:29

week Chops Sgarbi was already in

1:14:31

run.preparing for the race with his

1:14:33

new teammates or teammates for those

1:14:36

ten days of top rundown I

1:14:38

spoke to him just about the

1:14:41

emotional journey nice been on over

1:14:43

the last few months. Sam as.

1:14:45

He realized that his dream of why

1:14:47

stream of winning a toy different stages

1:14:50

his ultimate dream was fading on the

1:14:52

I'm he would have to resign himself

1:14:54

to the end of was been it's

1:14:56

a glorious professional cycling Korea nonetheless his

1:14:58

scobee speaking to me last week so

1:15:00

it wasn't for me it's is to

1:15:02

create because I had to his fears

1:15:04

in my job at some of the

1:15:06

beginning of the year was a i

1:15:08

say to myself oh so lucky to

1:15:10

survive on that kind of years or

1:15:12

when I was young because I was

1:15:14

doing a lot of. Think so This

1:15:16

was the last. Two. Years

1:15:19

old. my camera was really a try

1:15:21

to fix everything and to ride so

1:15:23

stop and forced to support of comprises

1:15:25

wasn't really easy because or so I

1:15:27

was reading. time up It's good to

1:15:29

mistake and to give everything to my

1:15:31

teammates and to help And always it

1:15:33

I think. People see black from

1:15:36

series of the whereas and everything I

1:15:38

was getting out of the paper says

1:15:40

the team so at the united about

1:15:42

of contractual a feeling it's a slight

1:15:45

unless you are inside too soon as.

1:15:48

you know to have a chance to

1:15:50

fight before he of course and motivations

1:15:52

different to keep going and everything you

1:15:54

do everything live just stop and doing

1:15:57

nothing sites law don't wish to a

1:15:59

cyclist It's so hard,

1:16:01

but I love always

1:16:03

looking forward, and I

1:16:06

try to fight to myself always. Okay, it's

1:16:08

not more than what I wanted. It happened

1:16:10

to me, so what I can't

1:16:12

do. And I learn a lot from it, and

1:16:14

I try to even say to other cyclists, please,

1:16:17

please, just look where

1:16:19

you're going, and just retire by yourself,

1:16:21

or to plan a ride with

1:16:23

some cyclists, I said, and it's

1:16:25

the worst thing that can happen,

1:16:28

because it destroys everything, because I

1:16:30

was the guy that I was

1:16:32

really proud, and I achieved so

1:16:35

many things for my country and for myself, and I

1:16:37

was one of the first African cyclists to be in

1:16:39

the World Tour team. I kind

1:16:42

of lost the appreciation, like what I did,

1:16:44

really, because I wasn't finishing the

1:16:46

thing I wanted to do, you know? But

1:16:49

it comes up slowly when I realize, like,

1:16:51

people send me a message, and so many people

1:16:53

like what I did, and I appreciate it,

1:16:55

and it's kind of coming back,

1:16:58

but I wish I just finished

1:17:00

it by myself, and everything did it

1:17:02

not this way, so it's

1:17:05

hard in my situation, I think it's hard,

1:17:07

I think, the message I received from so

1:17:09

many people, like what I have achieved, and

1:17:11

what the feedback was,

1:17:16

it's insane, even if like from my

1:17:18

country, from outside of my country, and

1:17:20

there is so many messages I have

1:17:22

received, and I wasn't really expecting to

1:17:24

do that, and

1:17:27

when I spoke to people, like, it's

1:17:30

great, you know? It's like, at least,

1:17:32

you know, it's kind of, my

1:17:34

teammate would send me a message, at least he knows

1:17:36

how to raise a chandelier, you know? And it was

1:17:38

like, this

1:17:40

kind of message, it just makes you so proud,

1:17:43

and you know what, I did three times sort

1:17:45

of fine, so it's just, when you look back,

1:17:47

it just, there's so many things that pushes you

1:17:49

and makes you to appreciate, but also, yeah,

1:17:53

you need time for, like, you're right, it's

1:17:55

a process, and I tried to spoke to

1:17:57

a lot of others, that there is

1:17:59

a desire. I hit worse things, so

1:18:01

I kind of, I don't know,

1:18:03

I would say I'm doing actually well because I

1:18:05

have already looking to do something and I have

1:18:08

a lot of calls and I pick

1:18:10

out, I don't know. Actually I'm

1:18:12

okay because the hardest thing

1:18:14

is for me with just have a

1:18:16

lot of questions. Why? Why happen this?

1:18:19

Because of the also

1:18:21

to retire, but the moment I remember to go

1:18:23

back and to appreciate myself and my care, I

1:18:26

think I'm really proud of

1:18:28

and it's what I achieved. I think

1:18:30

when I look back and how long I

1:18:32

come, it just, yeah, I

1:18:34

am proud of all that really and

1:18:37

that makes me happy really. So

1:18:39

chaps, that was Skaabu Gamay

1:18:42

talking about, well, the

1:18:44

difficulty of accepting that it was time for

1:18:46

him to retire. Skaabu is gonna carry on

1:18:48

racing, I should stress, just not as a

1:18:51

professional and not on the road. He

1:18:53

has actually been signed up by a

1:18:55

really interesting team called the Amani Project

1:18:58

or Team Amani. They

1:19:00

are, well, they describe themselves as a motley

1:19:03

crew of the best riders from Kenya, Uganda

1:19:05

and Rwanda and brought together to compete in

1:19:07

the biggest gravel races on the planet. Really

1:19:09

interesting project, that is, look it

1:19:11

up. And Skaabu's gonna ride

1:19:14

a series of races in the, mainly

1:19:16

in the Girona sort of Catalunya environs

1:19:18

over the next few months, but he's

1:19:20

certainly very motivated by that challenge. He

1:19:22

doesn't know where it's going to lead

1:19:25

yet. As

1:19:27

we know, there are quite a lot

1:19:30

of ex-road professionals who are

1:19:32

making a pretty good living out of

1:19:34

the gravel scene now and pursuing big

1:19:36

ambitions in gravel. Skaabu doesn't

1:19:38

know whether these first few

1:19:40

races are gonna take him in that

1:19:43

direction, but he's certainly very motivated. And

1:19:45

well, we look forward to following him

1:19:48

and Team Amani over the

1:19:50

next few months. But

1:19:52

chaps, Tora Veranda, Larry, I don't think

1:19:54

you've ever ridden the Tora Veranda, have

1:19:56

you? I have not, no. Who

1:19:59

knows? Larry maybe you'll be riding the World

1:20:01

Championship in 2025 because of course that is

1:20:03

where they will

1:20:09

take place. It will be the first ever cycling

1:20:12

World Championships to take place in

1:20:14

Africa, on

1:20:16

the continent of Africa and

1:20:19

well it will

1:20:21

not be without its controversy because

1:20:24

Rwanda is well governed

1:20:27

by a controversial leader Paul Kagame

1:20:29

there have been lots

1:20:31

of allegations over the last few

1:20:34

years of sports washing in particular

1:20:36

due to Rwanda's association with well

1:20:38

my beloved Arsenal Football Club they

1:20:41

sponsor them the NBA

1:20:43

launched a project in Africa the

1:20:45

basketball Africa League

1:20:47

in 2021 that was

1:20:49

launched in Rwanda as I

1:20:51

say May 2021 they hosted the FIFA

1:20:55

General Assembly in 2023 so

1:20:57

as I say various

1:21:02

allegations of sports washing against

1:21:04

the backdrop of or leveled

1:21:07

at a regime that suddenly

1:21:09

come under or coming

1:21:11

for scrutiny from the lights of

1:21:14

Amnesty International and other human rights

1:21:16

organisations Richard you have been doing

1:21:18

some reading for us about Rwanda

1:21:20

and cycling in Rwanda and all things for under

1:21:22

in fact haven't you can

1:21:26

I can I lead you off on a slight

1:21:28

tangent to begin with with a question yes if

1:21:33

you have to guess how many gorillas

1:21:35

live in Rwanda yes

1:21:38

let's not go there yeah gorillas with

1:21:40

a no is it more or less

1:21:47

than is it more or less than

1:21:50

the province of high end has olive trees

1:21:53

oh I think it's probably less than the six

1:21:56

considered trees in high end yeah I have no

1:21:58

idea 500 500,

1:22:01

I was going to say like a million, I don't

1:22:03

know. No,

1:22:05

Daniel's closer, I'm afraid. It's about 700. That's

1:22:09

in Rwanda. Is that in Rwanda? Well,

1:22:11

I mean, they don't sort of

1:22:13

tend to stick to national borders. Well,

1:22:17

I also read, I had no idea how

1:22:19

big Rwanda was. I read earlier

1:22:21

today, doing a little bit of

1:22:23

preparation for this episode, Richard, that it's slightly bigger

1:22:25

than Sicily, Rwanda, apparently. I,

1:22:28

based on, you mentioned Youth Quake, the

1:22:31

book, an episode or two ago. I

1:22:34

sort of started reading around

1:22:36

there and it

1:22:38

always amazes me how big Africa as

1:22:40

a continent is and how

1:22:43

a small country, what looks like a really

1:22:45

tiny country like Rwanda is actually, yeah,

1:22:48

a lot bigger than you think. Anyway,

1:22:51

there's about 700 or so gorillas. This does

1:22:53

have a bit of a tangential

1:22:56

link back to cycling because one

1:22:59

of the biggest industries and

1:23:02

growth industries in Rwanda is tourism.

1:23:05

And a significant part of that is

1:23:07

gorilla tourism. People go and trek

1:23:10

to see these mountain gorillas where

1:23:13

the Dian Fossey and gorillas in the mist

1:23:15

was up around there, these sort of spectacular

1:23:18

animals. They

1:23:20

only issue 96 permits a day to

1:23:22

go and see gorillas. As

1:23:27

a tourist activity, it's pretty limited. And

1:23:30

there's a lot of talk in Rwanda

1:23:32

and there was a World Bank report

1:23:34

about this basically saying that

1:23:37

one of the biggest areas for

1:23:39

Rwanda to develop and grow was

1:23:41

nature-based tourism. And

1:23:44

a big part of that is biking and getting

1:23:46

people to come and go

1:23:48

on cycling trips essentially in Rwanda. There

1:23:52

is already a gravel race. You mentioned the

1:23:54

Amani team, Daniel. I can't remember. It might

1:23:56

just be called the Tour of

1:23:59

Rwanda. I can't remember what it's, but it's a

1:24:01

sort of ultra endurance gravel race. So it's not

1:24:03

just road racing that's developing in Rwanda, but I

1:24:06

think. Like

1:24:09

with a lot of sporting

1:24:11

events, you kind of come down to

1:24:13

this question of, are we talking about a

1:24:15

political project or are we

1:24:17

talking about a sport, a sporting thing? And

1:24:20

I think in this case, it undoubtedly

1:24:23

is a political project as to

1:24:25

why the world championships are in

1:24:27

Rwanda. You've talked there about the

1:24:29

president, Paul Kagame, and issues around

1:24:31

sports washing and so on.

1:24:33

I mean, it needs to be said that the

1:24:36

sport of cycling and it's the

1:24:40

powers that be within the sport, the UCI

1:24:42

doing quite well out of

1:24:44

the prestige of hosting the world championships in

1:24:46

Africa for the first time. ASO

1:24:49

and Golazzo, French and

1:24:51

Belgian companies respectively, are organising it on

1:24:54

behalf of the Rwandan Cycling Federation. They're

1:24:56

obviously beneficiaries. But

1:24:59

I guess the question that I was wondering

1:25:02

and trying to answer is like, what impact

1:25:04

will this have on cycling in Rwanda by

1:25:07

having the world championships there? And

1:25:10

I think Rwanda is not, it's

1:25:12

what, it isn't the best performing

1:25:15

African nation in terms

1:25:17

of the world tour. It doesn't currently have any world

1:25:19

tour riders and the men's or women's peloton. But

1:25:22

I guess what it sort of makes

1:25:24

me wonder

1:25:26

is how, are

1:25:30

we going to see a big uptick in cycling

1:25:32

in Rwanda as a result of the world championships there?

1:25:34

Is it going to be something a bit like maybe

1:25:37

Qatar when the world's weren't there in 2016, which

1:25:41

didn't really have any sort of impact on

1:25:43

cycling as an activity or as a sport

1:25:45

in Qatar? Or is

1:25:48

this something that's going to sort of catalyse or kickstart

1:25:50

cycling in Rwanda and help it step up

1:25:52

again? I mean, there

1:25:55

are things going on. And I think from

1:25:57

what it looks like, The

1:26:00

main focus at the moment is on junior

1:26:02

riders in Rwanda with the

1:26:05

goal of them having good

1:26:07

rides at the Worlds in 2025 in

1:26:09

the junior ranks, but then sort of starting

1:26:12

a wave of young

1:26:15

riders that are going to be able to ride

1:26:17

the interest in cycling that a

1:26:19

World Championships might bring. And

1:26:23

again, you talked about it with Brian

1:26:25

and Rob last week, I think, about

1:26:27

the decline of cycling in the UK,

1:26:31

contrasted with the fact that there

1:26:34

are record or near record numbers

1:26:36

of British riders

1:26:40

in the top levels of the sport. And

1:26:42

those are all riders who got interested in

1:26:44

the sport. They would have been between 8 and

1:26:46

11, say, when

1:26:49

the London Olympics took place and when Bradley Wiggins

1:26:51

won the Tour de France. It

1:26:54

wasn't quite a world happening in

1:26:56

the UK, but similar kind of

1:26:58

focus on big scale events. And

1:27:00

I always wonder whether we're actually going to see the impact

1:27:02

of this in like 10, 12

1:27:05

years' time, whether it kids that go

1:27:07

out and watch or

1:27:09

come across a big event

1:27:11

like the World Championships, hear about it,

1:27:14

get interested in it. And

1:27:16

then in a decade or so,

1:27:19

they're going to be becoming

1:27:22

very good at riding bikes. My

1:27:24

instinct about this, and I think Brian

1:27:26

disputed this last week, or he

1:27:30

had a different point of view, but I

1:27:33

think as a catalyst that an individual experiencing,

1:27:35

giving a nation in

1:27:38

particular, a great success is

1:27:40

the most powerful catalyst.

1:27:44

That has always been

1:27:46

my impression. It was certainly the

1:27:49

case in Germany with Eric

1:27:51

Zabel and Jan Ulrich, and

1:27:53

it was the case in the UK, I feel, to

1:27:56

a large extent with Cavendish and Wiggins and so on

1:27:58

and so forth. You

1:28:00

can apply this to lots of different sports and lots of

1:28:02

different nations as well. Rather

1:28:05

than the single event

1:28:07

or even series of events,

1:28:09

legacy events for example, I

1:28:12

think that they have

1:28:14

their place. The Tour de Yorkshire was

1:28:16

a mired in all sorts of

1:28:18

other problems in the end but as a legacy

1:28:21

project it was actually a decent idea but I

1:28:23

do feel that individuals are an

1:28:25

individual success. It might not be

1:28:27

the answer we like to hear but it

1:28:29

is the most powerful incentive.

1:28:34

Yeah I honestly agree with that actually. My

1:28:39

generation, the reason we're all in cycling

1:28:41

was probably because of Lance. He

1:28:44

brought it to such a big level in the

1:28:46

US and I think it is almost

1:28:48

like people need stars to

1:28:51

follow and that's what gets them excited and

1:28:54

motivated in a sport. I

1:28:57

don't know if it's the events per se but

1:28:59

more the individuals themselves. Are

1:29:03

you just angling for an appearance on his podcast? You

1:29:07

need that to complete the set? No. That's

1:29:09

the real big four isn't it? Bobby

1:29:13

and Yes. Did you ever have those high spy books

1:29:15

growing up? You know where you have to go around

1:29:18

with your little book and tick off what you... Yeah,

1:29:20

yeah. Yeah, Larry's

1:29:23

going for the Grand Slam of

1:29:25

podcasting. Yeah, the Empham Bobby, Garant

1:29:27

Thomas, Lance Armstrong was cycling

1:29:29

podcast. Well

1:29:31

chaps, we will try, we're already having a

1:29:34

hard enough job following all the racing that's

1:29:36

going on by

1:29:39

traditional, conventional multimedia

1:29:42

means but we will

1:29:44

try to keep our eye on events in

1:29:46

Rwanda and hope Skabu has a

1:29:48

good 10 days there and he

1:29:50

says he's not on his best form

1:29:52

but he's certainly been riding his bike training. He's also been

1:29:54

doing quite a bit of running. Also

1:29:57

wanted to mention about Rwanda.

1:30:00

The Land of Second Chances by

1:30:02

Tim Lewis is a fantastic book

1:30:04

about a team

1:30:07

that was launched in Rwanda. It

1:30:09

would be interesting actually to have a

1:30:11

bit of an update on that story

1:30:14

and to find out what became some

1:30:16

of the protagonists in that book. But

1:30:18

I'd fairly recommend that. The Land of

1:30:20

Second Chances. Well

1:30:22

champs, I think that just about

1:30:25

concludes this week's episode. We will

1:30:27

of course be back next week.

1:30:29

Next week we'll already

1:30:31

be in classics mode. There'll

1:30:34

be a lot of stage racing stuff to talk about. The likes

1:30:36

of the Algare starting

1:30:38

this week and Teo Gagan

1:30:40

Hart starting his season there

1:30:42

among others. Various other big

1:30:46

names in action over the next few weeks.

1:30:48

We'll be talking about that but we'll also

1:30:51

be looking ahead to the start of the

1:30:53

Cobble Classics. Omloop,

1:30:55

Het Newsblad, Kuna, Brussels. Before

1:30:59

Omloop, Het Newsblad

1:31:01

instantly, Friends of

1:31:03

the Cycling Podcast, you

1:31:06

should know that we will be

1:31:08

communicating the week before Omloop about

1:31:11

how we're going to start our

1:31:13

season. Our Friends of the Podcast

1:31:15

program schedule of events for 2024.

1:31:18

So look out for that. That will

1:31:20

be on social media and email

1:31:23

possibly. We'll be communicating with you and in

1:31:25

the episode as well of course. Champs,

1:31:28

in the meantime I think that is

1:31:31

just about all from us. Larry,

1:31:33

what's your next race? I'm going to

1:31:36

wish you best of

1:31:38

luck for that. Yes, I race this

1:31:40

weekend. I do classic VAR and then

1:31:43

Tour De Ault Merit team. So yeah,

1:31:47

few races coming up. Best

1:31:50

of luck with that. No complaining about the cold

1:31:52

weather. No, it looks actually good. Don't worry, I

1:31:54

checked the forecast. It's sunny and nice. Slightly

1:31:57

chilly weather and the light drizzle. I

1:32:00

will be attending, you know, I'm not going to sit this

1:32:02

one out. No,

1:32:04

best of luck with that, Larry. And we'll

1:32:06

be seeing you somewhere in person,

1:32:08

I think, in the next few weeks. I was

1:32:10

hoping you'd be doing pariniese, because you were down

1:32:13

as a reserve for pariniese. You told me that

1:32:15

you're probably going to be doing pireno,

1:32:17

habériático instead. But

1:32:20

we all will be seeing you somewhere. And

1:32:22

Richard, I think you'll be back next week. That's

1:32:24

right, yeah. Before

1:32:26

I sign off, the results are

1:32:29

in for the Instagram. Oh, go on. On

1:32:33

the podium, third place, Hogg,

1:32:35

1.4 million, followed

1:32:38

by Peter Sagan in second, 1.9 million,

1:32:41

and Riggo. Wow, Cavendish? Nowhere?

1:32:45

Oh, didn't quite, didn't

1:32:48

check Cavendish. Let's have a look. It might

1:32:50

be 1.something, possibly. This

1:32:54

is making for a great podcast.

1:32:56

Yeah. 800,000.

1:32:59

There we go. The final

1:33:01

podium is in. World

1:33:04

Champion Instagrammer, will you get an honorary rainbow jersey

1:33:06

for that? With

1:33:09

the Instagram icon? Like a, maybe, an

1:33:11

F.E. Rainbow jersey or something. Did he

1:33:13

still? From

1:33:16

the Instagram rabbit hole, that's enough. That's

1:33:18

all from us, sorry, I should say. Thank

1:33:21

you, chap. Thanks, guys. The

1:33:25

cycling podcast was created in

1:33:27

2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel

1:33:29

Freed and Lionel Byrne. The

1:33:59

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