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This podcast is supported by the Showtime documentary film cusp.

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The Sundance award-winning film is a coming of age, summer Odyssey offering an unfiltered window into the lives of three teenage girls in a Texas military town where toxic masculinity is the norm Brittany Aloni and Autumn's navigation of complex and traumatic experiences teach us what it's like being a young female teenager in small town.

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Tough-minded cusp is now streaming only on Showtime From

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New York times. I'm Michael Barbaro.

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This is the day Today.

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The world health organization has declared that the Omicron variant of the Corona virus poses a quote, very high risk to public health.

0:57

I spoke with my colleague.

0:58

about how it is that scientists came to that conclusion so quickly.

1:05

It's Tuesday, November 30th.

1:25

Okay. I think we're ready to wait when you're ready to record. We're ready to record.

1:27

So Really quick, we got an email about pronunciation.

1:30

I don't, is it, is that Alma?

1:32

Crowner Omicron. I

1:35

mean, I've been saying its own crime. It's like somewhere in between.

1:38

It's neither OD I'm a crime.

1:42

It's kinda like I'm a crime, but it's not army Cron.

1:45

You know what I mean? It's like, I'm a crime.

1:49

Can you just say it really slowly? So we all can get on the same page?

1:54

Yeah, not Omicron. I mean, I don't think it really matters that much.

1:58

Honestly. I'm going with Alma Cron that, okay.

2:06

Okay. At this point, Apoorva, I'm curious what named variant are we on now in terms of numbers?

2:12

What number is this? Probably

2:15

seen thousands and thousands of variants of the virus, but in terms of ones that have been important enough or have concern enough to get a Greek letter, this is seven.

2:24

And if you want to think about the ones that the world health organization said are really serious, variants of concern, as the, who calls them, this is number five.

2:34

So there was alpha and then beta and gamma and Delta.

2:38

And now we're on OMA Cron.

2:41

And we're talking to you at what feels like a curious moment in the story of this variant Omicron.

2:49

When public health experts have told us that we should be worried about it, but also not too worried because there's so much they say they don't know.

2:59

So I think the best place to begin this conversation is with the question of why those experts got so worried in the first place.

3:07

And where do you think that story starts? The

3:10

story starts in Southern Africa where this variant was first detected.

3:13

And I want to be very clear.

3:15

That's where it was first detected.

3:17

We don't know if it really originated there and it starts really less than a week ago.

3:24

Now scientists in South Africa are warning of a new strain of COVID-19 South

3:28

African researchers. First heard of this variant last Tuesday.

3:32

And they sequenced this variant, which means they looked at the genetic code of the virus and they saw something that made them really nervous, which is What,

3:44

what did they say? The variant, which is yet to be named appears to have a high number of mutations.

3:50

I saw that this variant has dozens of new mutations and dozens of mutations that they had not seen before.

3:58

And that is of concern because there's a possibility it could be able to evade our immune response and be even more transmissible.

4:11

Well, explain that. I mean, my sense from talking to you, talking to our colleagues on the science desk is that the Corona virus mutates constantly.

4:17

So what is it about these mutations that got them anxious?

4:23

Right? The virus is always acquiring new mutations.

4:25

So it's not just the number it's that it has a lot of mutations in parts of the virus that are really important.

4:32

So this variant has 50 mutations and more than 30 of them are on the spike protein, which is arguably the most important part of the virus and of that 26 are unique mutations, meaning mutations that we've never seen before.

4:48

By contrast Delta had 10 unique mutations and beta had six.

4:53

So this is just a lot that they're seeing now in this variant, right?

4:57

And when scientists look at mutations within viruses, they worry about three things.

5:01

Is the variant more contagious?

5:03

Is it going to cause people to get sicker and will vaccines continue to work against it this time with this particular variant they're seeing mutations that make them worry about all three of those things.

5:17

Hm. So scientists are seeing mutations just to summarize this, that could impact all three of the ways in which this variant could become a very real threat and make the pandemic worse.

5:29

Right? And they're seeing multiple mutations that they think will affect each of those qualities that we don't want to see in a virus.

5:37

Okay. Give us an example of a set of mutations and how it might affect one of the three categories.

5:45

You just mentioned, contagiousness severity of illness, or being able to evade vaccines.

5:52

Let me pick the one that we probably worry about the most, which is well, vaccines, continue to work this variant.

5:57

There are three main parts of this virus that are important for antibodies to recognize the virus in previous variants.

6:05

We've seen at most mutations in two of those regions, and that's been bad enough like with the beta variant, for example, we saw mutations in two of those regions and the beta variant was not as sensitive to vaccines as Delta or alpha.

6:22

This time they're seeing mutations in all three of those regions.

6:26

And so that makes them worry that this one will be resistant to vaccines and more so, even than any variant that they've seen before, including beta.

6:37

So you're saying that scientists immediately detect that this variant has many, many mutations that can make it harder for vaccinated people to fight off this virus.

6:51

Okay. Got it. Okay. So let's return to this chronology for a minute.

6:55

You have these researchers in South Africa who start to sequence the genome of this new Varian.

7:03

They discover all these mutations in places on the virus that freaked them out and make them nervous.

7:09

It could make the virus more contagious, make illness from it more severe and make the virus evade vaccines.

7:16

What happens next? The scientists did what all virus researchers do these days, which has they deposited the sequence in this database that geneticists all over the world, look at and scientists all over the world immediately saw the sequence and they all got worried.

7:32

So they agree with the scientists in South Africa that this is a worrisome set of mutations.

7:36

They do. In fact, one scientist told me after seeing the sequence, that it was like a collection of the greatest hits of the variant that you never wanted to see together.

7:46

Huh? Okay. So I have to imagine that this is the moment of poor of a late last week when all our cell phones here in United States started buzzing around Thanksgiving with news alerts, that there was a scary new variant that had been first detected in South Africa.

8:02

It was, it was the moment when scientists everywhere started to sound the alarm.

8:07

And by Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, the who said, this was a variant of concern in the past.

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They've taken weeks to get to that point for any other variant.

8:17

And this happened just about three days after the first detection of the variants.

8:22

So this has all happened very fast.

8:24

And that's because of how many mutations this new variant has.

8:29

But at this point late last week and correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like a lot of this anxiety is on paper, right?

8:36

It's anxiety based on what scientists are seeing in the genetic sequencing.

8:39

It's not based on sudden or alarming changes in how people are responding to this variant on the ground.

8:49

Well, not entirely. I mean, the scientists have a reason for worrying, which is that usually when you see a cluster of mutations like this, it's because there's some advantage for the virus to have it.

9:00

It allows the virus to survive better, but you're right.

9:03

That we don't know anything for sure yet. And that most of it is still on paper.

9:07

There are early hints from South Africa that maybe it's more severe and maybe hospitalizations will go up.

9:14

But it's just too soon to say, let me give you an example.

9:18

So the scientists are worried that maybe this variant won't respond to vaccines very well, but that's not something they can just tell from looking at the sequence.

9:27

So as soon as south African scientists found last week that this variant was circulating immediately within an hour.

9:36

In fact, some south African scientists started doing those experiments.

9:39

And by now there are dozens of labs all over the world, all trying to answer this question, will the vaccine still work against this variant?

9:48

But we don't have an Answer. We don't have an answer yet because it takes time for these scientists to build an artificial version of this variant that they can then test against the vaccines.

9:58

So it's probably going to be at least a couple of weeks before we know anything.

10:02

And that goes for the other two questions as well.

10:05

So we won't be able to answer the three big questions.

10:08

Is this variant more contagious?

10:11

Does it produce greater illness?

10:13

Does it evade vaccines? We won't know that for several weeks.

10:20

We have to basically wait and see, is it spreading really fast are a lot of people ending up in the hospital and then we have to wait for these lab experiments to tell us, does it respond to vaccines?

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And thank you Of

12:06

course, over the weekend at port where we did not see governments around the world, wait for more scientific data about the variant or wait to react to these fears that it could be more serious.

12:17

We did Not. The

12:20

white house is now restricting travel from South Africa and 700 We're

12:24

in countries. Hong Kong has also been in visitors from 80 countries In

12:28

the last 14 days will be barred from Entering

12:31

Canada, protect UK against the variant coming here from Southern African countries and added four war countries to the red list.

12:40

And you can see the impulse there. You know, they're all scrambling to contain the spread of the virus.

12:43

And many countries declared right away that they were going to restrict visitors from Southern African countries, Raising

12:51

a red flag. We understand that we're on the verge of a state of emergency And

12:56

some like Israel, Japan, and Morocco decided that they would borrow all foreign visitors.

13:02

But you know, I'm not sure that really works because as of today, the virus is already in at least 15 countries.

13:15

Well, I think that brings us up to now where we have countries imposing these travel restrictions and simultaneously finding that the virus is already inside their borders.

13:28

So I think a question that many people have is do these travel restrictions, which seem to be the worlds primary response.

13:37

While we wait these two weeks for results on all this research, do they make any sense?

13:44

Pretty much every public health expert I talked to says they don't that these travel bands do really nothing.

13:50

They may delay it a tiny bit, but really by the time countries discover that there is a variant that's circulating that variant is already everywhere.

14:01

The prime minister is urging calm after the new coronavirus variant called Omicron was detected in Australia.

14:09

It's been in several European countries, it's in Canada, it's in Hong Kong.

14:13

It's an Australia And

14:14

Germany and Italy announced their first Omicron cases.

14:17

They follow Belgium. You almost have to expect that it's going to eventually find its way into Canada.

14:23

I think people were expecting Really

14:25

the world does not sequence enough of the virus, detect enough of the virus to be able to know which variants are circulating.

14:33

So by the time anybody has sounded an alarm, the horse has left the barn already.

14:39

Mm. So by the time the U S for example, as we just have says, no travelers from eight countries across Southern Africa, You

14:49

know, today, president Biden, it's probably just a matter of time before it's here.

14:53

Travel restrictions can slow the speed of Omnicon.

14:56

It cannot prevent it, but here's what it does.

14:59

It gives us time.

15:03

Really. I think the scientists that I've talked to say, it's probably here already.

15:06

We just don't know that it is. And the other problem with these travel restrictions is that to the people in those countries, it feels like a punishment.

15:14

It basically disincentivizes them from telling the world that there is this dangerous, new variant that circulating.

15:22

I wouldn't disincentivize them from sharing a variant with the world.

15:26

No, these restrictions are completely unjustified and unfairly discriminate against our country and our Southern African sister.

15:37

When you block visitors from those countries and you impose these travel bans, you're delivering a huge economic blow to a lot of those countries.

15:45

And they were already doing poorly because of the pandemic till now The

15:50

prohibition of travel is not informed by science.

15:53

No, will it be effective in preventing the spread of this?

15:58

So the south African officials and the scientists that I've been talking to are very upset because they feel that they did the world a favor by alerting everybody to this variant.

16:08

There were scientists from all over the world asking them for samples and for sequences.

16:13

And at the same time they're being told you're not welcome in our country.

16:18

The only thing the prohibition on trouble will do is to further damage the economies of the affected countries and undermine their ability to respond to, and also to recover from the pandemic.

16:31

So it makes sense that the south African president just came out and said, you know, please lift these travel restrictions because it's really unfair On

16:40

the subject of Southern Africa.

16:43

Apoorva. What, if anything, should we make of the fact that this is where this variant was first detected?

16:54

Well, we know one thing about Africa, which is that very few people in that continent have been vaccinated.

17:01

And scientists have been saying for months now that the more people we leave un-vaccinated in certain parts of the world, the higher, the chances that we'll see a dangerous new variant in Africa, in particular, there are a lot of people who have weak immune systems, whether that's because of HIV or TB or malaria, or these diseases that really SAP people's strength.

17:24

There are a lot of immunocompromised people.

17:27

And we know now that the virus acquires mutations the best in somebody who is immunocompromised.

17:35

Can you just explain that In

17:38

somebody who is immunocompromised, the virus will continue to replicate to multiply for a long time at a very low level.

17:46

So it's like giving the virus, this playing ground to experiment and come up with all kinds of new mutations.

17:52

When you see ovarian like Omicron, that has 15 new mutations.

17:57

It's usually because it's had a lot of time in one person, rather than the, it acquired them one at a time, you know, in different people.

18:05

Got it. But this is basically what scientists have been warning us for months.

18:08

That apart from, you know, the moral argument for vaccinating the world, we're really rolling the dice.

18:14

When we leave hundreds of millions of people unprotected in parts of the world where the virus can really gain a foothold and really replicate and acquire a lot of new mutations.

18:25

But isn't it possible that an immunocompromised person anywhere in the world could have given us this variant?

18:34

Absolutely. That's a really excellent point.

18:37

This is why we should be vaccinating as much of the world as we can.

18:40

The more people we have on vaccinated, the more chances that we'll see another variant that's dangerous.

18:48

But what if this variant, as many scientists, fear is resistant to vaccines?

18:55

Does that still hold true? It's

18:57

not all or nothing. It's not that if this variant is not as sensitive to vaccines, that the vaccines don't work at all, it just means that there'll be a little less effective, but they'll still probably prevent most people from getting really sick.

19:13

And the vaccines are really still our best defense against this virus.

19:17

And that's even more true for boosters because they really amp up your antibody levels.

19:22

And they'll give you an even better chance of fighting off this variant.

19:27

So it sounds like you and the experts you talked to you are saying that the answer to preventing variants like Omicron and enduring them is not severe travel restrictions is just a lot more vaccinations.

19:43

We know what works, it's vaccination, it's mosques, it's social distancing, and probably not travel restrictions Forever.

19:54

We started this conversation with an acknowledgement that public health officials are telling us to be worried, but not too worried.

20:00

And I wonder if that's where your head is right now.

20:04

It really is because we don't know enough to panic yet.

20:07

I think this is one of those very frustrating moments when we just have to wait for the answers.

20:13

And until we know that we should panic, not panic Well

20:20

Apoorva. When we get that answer, we will turn to you again for now.

20:25

Thank you very much. Thank you.

20:32

On Monday night, in response to the emergence of OMA, Omicron us officials changed their recommendation for booster shots.

20:40

Instead of saying that most American adults may get booster shots depending on their individual needs.

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Regulators said that adults should get booster shots to strengthen their immunity.

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Here's what else you need to know today on Monday, the us secretary of defense ordered a new high-level investigation into a 2019 airstrike in Syria that killed dozens of women and children.

21:56

The airstrike was deliberately hidden by the U S military until it was uncovered by the New York times.

22:06

And in testimony on Monday Elizabeth Holmes, the former Theranose CEO accused of defrauding investors, testifying that her ex business and romantic partner sunny hall Wani attempted to manipulate her.

22:22

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22:36

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This podcast is supported by the Showtime documentary film From New York Times, I'm Michael Vaccaro. This is the day. Today. World Health Organization has declared that the Omicron of the coronavirus poses a, quote, very high risk to public health. I spoke with my colleague, a poor vocabulary about how it is that scientists came to that conclusion so quickly. From New York times. I'm Michael Barbaro. This is the day Eats, Tuesday, Today. The world health organization has declared that the Omicron variant of the Corona virus poses a quote, very high risk to public November thirtieth. Okay. I think we're ready when you're ready to record, we're ready to record. So Really quick, we got an email about pronunciation. I don't is it is it Omicron Omicron. I mean, I've been saying itWe Omicron. It's like somewhere in between. It's neither odd or Wait. Wait. What do you what do you say? Omicron. Almirall? Almirall? It's kinda like Almirall, but it's not Almirall. You know what I mean? It's like Almirall. Can you just say it really slowly so we all can get on the same page Omicron? Omicron. Not Omicron. Yeah. Not Omicron. Mhmm. I mean, I don't think it really matters that much honestly. I'm going with Omicron. Is that okay? Omicron. Omicron. Omicron. Alma? Crowner Okay. At this point, I'm sure it's what named variant are we on now. In terms of numbers. What number is this? We've probably seen thousands and thousands of variants of the virus. But in terms of ones that have been important enough or of concern enough to get a Greek letter, this is seven. And if you want to think about ones that the World Health Organization said are really serious variants of concern as the WHO calls them. This is number five. So there was alpha and then beta and gamma and delta Okay. At this point, Apoorva, I'm curious what named variant are we on now in terms of now we're on Omicron. Mhmm. And we're talking to you at what feels like a curious moment in the story of this varian, Omicron. When public health experts have told us that we should be worried about itWe, but also not too worried because there's so much that they say they don't know. So I think the best place to begin this conversation is with a question of why those experts got so worried in the first place. And where do you think that story starts? The story starts in southern Africa where this variant was first detected, and I want to be very clear that's where it was first detect itWe. We don't know if it really originated there. Mhmm. And it starts really less than a week ago. Now scientists in South Africa are warning of a new strain of COVID-nineteen. South African researchers first heard of this variant last Tuesday, and they seek against this variant, which means they looked at the genetic code of the virus, and they saw something that made them really nervous. Which is what did they say? The variant, which is yet to be named, appears to have a high number of mutations. They saw that this variant has dozens of new mutations and dozens of mutations that they had not seen before. And that is of concern because there's a possibility it could be able to evade our immune response and be more transmissible. We'll explain that. I mean, my sense from talking to you talking to our colleagues on the science desk, is that the coronavirus mutates constantly. The variant, which is yet to be named appears to have a high number of So what is it about these mutationsWhen got the anxious. I saw that this variant has dozens of new mutations and dozens of mutations that they had not seen Right, the virus is always acquiring new mutations. So it's not just the number, it's that It has a lot of mutations in parts of the virus that are really important. Mhmm. So this variant has fifty mutations and more than thirty of them are on the spike protein, which is arguably the most important part of the virus. Well, explain of that, twenty six are unique mutations, meaning mutations that we've never seen before. By contrast, delta had ten unique mutations and beta had six So this is just a lot that they're seeing now in this variant. Right. And when scientists look at mutations within viruses, they worry about three things. Is the variant more contagious? Is it going to cause people to get sicker? And will vaccines continue to work against it? This TimesSign, with this particular variant, they're seeing mutations that make them worry about all three of those things. So scientists are seeing just to summarize this, that could impact all three of the ways in which this variant could become a very real threat and make the pandemic worse. right? And when scientists look at mutations within viruses, they worry about three And they're seeing multiple mutations that they think will affect each of those qualities that we don't want to see in a virus. Okay. Give us an example of a set of mutations and how it might affect one of the three categories you just mentioned, contagiousness, severity of illness, or being able to evade vaccines. Let me pick the one that we probably worry about the most, which is, will vaccines continue to work against this variant? Mhmm. There are three main parts of this virus. That are important for antibodies to recognize the virus. In previous variants, we've seen at most mutations in two of those regions. And that's been bad enough, like with the beta variant, for example, we saw mutations in two of those regions, and the beta variant was not as sensitive. To vaccines as delta or alpha. Mhmm. This time, they're seeing mutations in all three of those regions. Mhmm. And so that makes them worry that this one will be resistant to vaccines and more so even than any variant than they've seen before, including beta. So you're saying that scientists immediately detect that this variant has many many mutations that can make it harder for vaccinated people to fight off this virus? Correct. Got it. Okay. So let's return to this chronology for a minute. You have these researchers in South Africa who start to sequence the genome of this new variant. They discover all these mutations in places on the virus that freak them out and make them nervous. beta. It could make the virus more contagious, make illness from itWe, severe, and make the virus evade vaccines. What happens next? The scientists did what all virus researchers do these days, which is they deposited the sequence in this database that geneticists all over the world look at. And scientists all over the world immediately saw the sequence and they all got worried. So they agree with the scientists in South Africa that this is a worrisome Varian. They discover all these mutations in places on the virus that freaked them out and make them Mutations. They do. In fact, one scientist told me after seeing the sequence that it was like a collection of the greatest hits of the variant that you never wanted to see together. Okay. So I have to imagine that this is the moment of poor of late last week when all our cellphones here in the United States started buzzing around Thanksgiving with news alerts that there was a scary new variant. That had been first detected in South Africa. It was. It was the moment when scientists everywhere started to sound the alarm. And by Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, the WHO said this was a variant of concern. In the past, they've taken weeks to get to that point for any other variant. And this happened just about three days after the first detection of the variant. So this has all happened very fast, and that's because of how many mutations this new variant has. But at this point, late last week, and correct me if I'm wrong, itWe seems like a lot of this anxiety is on paper. Right? It's anxiety based on what scientists are seeing in the genetic sequencing. itWe not based on sudden or alarming changes in how people are responding to this variant on the ground. Well, not entirely. I mean, these scientists have a reason for worrying, which is that usually when you see a cluster of mutations like this, itWe because there's some advantage for the virus to have. It allows the virus to survive better. Mhmm. But you're right that we don't know anything for sure yet. And that most of it is still on paper. There are early hints from South Africa that maybe it's more severe and maybe hospitalizations will go up but it's just too soon to say, let me give you an example. So, the scientists are worried that maybe this variant won't respond to vaccines very well. But that's not something they can just tell from looking at the sequence. So as soon as South African scientists found last week that this variant was circulating immediately within an hour, in fact, some South African scientists started doing those experiments. paper. There are early hints from South Africa that maybe it's more severe and maybe hospitalizations will go by now, there are dozens of labs all over the world, all trying to answer this question, will the vaccine still work against this variant? Mhmm. But we don't have an answer. Don't have an answer yet because it takes time for these scientists to build an artificial version of this variant that they can then test against the vaccines. So it's probably going to be at least a couple of weeks before we know anything. And that goes for the other two questions as well. Howard Bauchner: Got it. So we won't be able to answer the three big questions. Is this variant more contagious? Does it produce greater illness? Does it evade vaccines? We won't know that. For several weeks. That's right. variant? We have to basically wait and see Is it spreading really fast? Are a lot of people ending up in hospital? And then we have to wait for these lab experiments to tell us does it respond to vaccines? anything. And that goes for the other two questions as We'll be right well. So we won't be able to answer the three big questions. Is this variant more contagious? Does it produce greater Of course, over the week end of Portland, we did not see governments around the world. Wait for more scientific data about the variant or We have to basically wait and see, is it spreading really fast are a lot of people ending up in the hospital and then we have to wait for these lab experiments to tell us, does it respond to wait to react to these fears. That it could be more serious. We did not. White House is now restricting travel from South Africa forgot, and seven neighboring countries, Hong Kong is also banning visitors from any country. Countries within the last fourteen days will be barred from entering Canada. To protect UK against the variant coming here from southern African countries and added four more countries to the redness. And you can see the impulse there, you know, they're all scrambling to contain the spread of the virus. And many countries declared right away that they were going to visitors from southern different. countries. Good. I think nervousness is something very deep and primal within We are raising a red flag. We understand that we're on the verge of a state of emergency. And some happen. Join the millions, taking the next big step in discovering the power of online therapy whenever and wherever you need Israel, Japan, and Morocco decided that they would bar all foreign visitors. it. Listeners of the daily get 10% off their first [email protected] slash the you know, I'm not sure that really works because As of today, the virus is already in at least fifteen countries. daily. Today is giving Tuesday a time. When we look around our community and consider offering support to those who need Well, I think that brings us up to it. Most, my name is Mia Harris and I'm the editor of the neediest cases fund at the New York now where we have countries imposing these travel restrictions and simultaneously finding that the virus is already inside their borders. So I think question that many people have is do these travel restrictions would seem to be the world's primary response while we wait these two weeks for results on office research Do they make any sense? Pretty much every public health expert I talked to says they don't. That these travel bans do really nothing. They may delay it a tiny bit, but really by the time countries discover that there is a variant that circulating, that variant is already everywhere. Good morning. The prime minister is urging calm after the new coronavirus variant called Omicron was detected in Australia. It's been in several European countries. It's in Canada. It's in Hong Kong. It's in Australia. Also, today, Britain, AND ITALY ANNOUNCED THEIR FIRST Omicron countries. Hong Kong has also been in visitors from 80 countries THEY FOLLOW BELLJAM. YOU ALMOST HAVE TO EXPECT THAT IT'S GOING TO EVENTUALLY FIND ITS WAY INTO CANADA. I THINK PEOPLE WORKS. Really, the world does not sequence enough of the virus, detect enough of the virus to be able to know which variants are circulating. So by the time anybody has sounded an alarm, the horse has left barn already. So by the time the US, for example, as we just have, says no travelers from eight countries across southern Africa. It's too late. You know, today, president Biden said itWe probably just a matter of time before it's here. Travel restrictions can the speed of Omicron. It cannot prevent itWe. But here's what it does. itWe gives us time. But Really, I think the scientists that I've talked to say, it's probably here already. We just don't know that it is. Mhmm. And the other problem with these travel restrictions is that to the people in those countries, it feels like a punishment. Mhmm. It basically basically disincentivizes them from telling the world that there is this dangerous new variant that's circulating. Why would it disincentivize them from sharing a variant with the world? Now these restrictions are completely unjustified response. While we wait these two weeks for results on all this research, do they make any and unfairly discriminate against our country and our Southern African sister countries. Pretty much every public health expert I talked to says they don't that these travel bands do really When you block visitors from those countries and you impose these travel bans, you're delivering a huge economic blow to a lot of those countries. Mhmm. And they were already doing poorly because of the pandemic till now. The prehibition of travel is not informed by science? No, will it be effective in preventing the spread of this variant? So itWe South African officials and the scientists Australia. been talking to are very upset because they feel that they did the world a favor by alerting everybody to this variant. They're scientists from all over the world asking them for samples and for sequences. And at the same time, they're being told, you're not welcome in our country. The only thing The prohibition on travel will do is to further damage the economies of the affected countries and undermine their ability to respond to and also to recover from the pandemic. So it makes sense that the South African president just came out and said, you know, please lift these travel restrictions because it's really unfair. On the subject of southern Africa, Apoorva, what if anything should we make Travel restrictions can slow the speed of the fact that this is where this variant was first detected. time. Well, we know one thing about Africa, which is that very few people in that continent is. And the other problem with these travel restrictions is that to the people in those countries, it feels like a have been vaccinated. And scientists have been saying for months now that the more people we leave unvaccinated in certain parts of the world, the higher the chances that we'll see a dangerous new variant. In Africa, in particular, I wouldn't disincentivize them from sharing a variant with the there are a lot of people who have weak immune systems, whether No, these restrictions are completely unjustified and unfairly discriminate against our country and our Southern African because of HIV, or TB or malaria or these diseases that really sap people's strength, there are a lot of immunocompromised people. And we know now that the virus acquires mutations the best in somebody who is immunocompromised. Can you just explain that? In somebody who is immunocompromised, the virus will continue to replicate, to multiply for a long time at a very low level. So it's like giving the virus this playing ground to experiment and come up with all kinds of new mutationsWhen you see a variant Omicron that has fifteen new mutations, it's usually because it's had a lot of time in one person rather than acquired them one at a time, you know, in different people. Got it. But this is basically what scientists have been warning us for months. That apart from, you The only thing the prohibition on trouble will do is to further damage the economies of the affected countries and undermine their ability to respond to, and also to recover from the the moral argument for vaccinating the world, we're really rolling the dice when we leave hundreds of millions of people unprotected in parts of the world where the virus can really gain a foothold and really replicate and acquire a lot of new mutationsWhen isn't it possible that an immunocompromised person anywhere in the world could have given us this variant? On the subject of Southern Absolutely. That's a really excellent point. This is why we should be vaccinating as much of the world as we can. The more people we have unvaccinated the more chances that we'll see another variant that's dangerous. But what if this variant as many scientists fear is resistant to vaccines. Does that still hold true? It's not all or nothing. It's not that if this variant is not as sensitive to vaccines, that the vaccines don't work at all. It just means that they'll be a little less effective but they'll still probably prevent most people from getting really sick. Mhmm. And the vaccines are really still our best defense against this virus. And that's even more true for boosters because they really amp up your antibody levels, and they'll give you an even better chance of fighting off this variant. So it sounds like you and the experts you talked to are saying that the answer to preventing variants like Omicron and enduring them is not severe travel restrictions. It's just a lot more vaccinations. itWe know what works, vaccination, its masks, its social distancing, and probably not travel restrictions. mutations. It's usually because it's had a lot of time in one person, rather than the, it acquired them one at a time, you know, in different Before we started this conversation with an acknowledgment that public health officials are telling us to be worried, but not too worried, and I wonder if that's where your head is right now. It really is because we don't know enough to panic yet. I think this is one of those very frustrating moments when we just have to wait for the answers and until we know that we should panic, not panic. mutations. But isn't it possible that an immunocompromised person anywhere in the world could have given us this Well, when we get that answer, we will turn you again for now. Thank you very much. Thank you. point. This is why we should be vaccinating as much of the world as we On Monday night, in response to the emergence of Omicron, US officials changed their recommendation for booster shots. Instead of saying that most American adults may get booster shots depending on their individual needs. Regulators said that adults should get booster shots to strengthen their immunity. We'll be right back. sick. And the vaccines are really still our best defense against this Here's what else you need, ten other day. On Monday, the US secretary of defense, ordered a new high level investigation into a twenty nineteen airstrike in Syria that killed dozens of women and children. The airstrike was deliberately hidden by the US military until it was uncovered by the New York Times. And in testimony on Monday, Elizabeth Holmes, the former Theranos CEO accused of defrauding investors. Testified that her ex business and romantic partner, Sony Balani, attempted to manipulate her. The testimony suggested a legal strategy of potentially blaming Ballwani for affecting home's decision making when she ran Theranos and oversaw its collapse. answers. And until we know that we should panic, not panic Today's episode, was produced by Jessica Chung, Diana Wynne, and Michael Simon Johnson. It was edited by MJ Davis Linn and engineered by Chris Wood. RFP Music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landberg of Wunderlie. On Monday night, in response to the emergence of OMA, Omicron us officials changed their recommendation for booster That's it for the day we. I'm Michael Barr. See you tomorrow. needs. Regulators said that adults should get booster shots to strengthen their immunity. This podcast is supported by just food for dogs. Since 2010, just food for dogs has been on a mission to help every dog live their healthiest life by offering fresh whole food meals delivered to your door. Their meals are backed by veterinary science and formulated by an in-house team of veterinarians who specialize in nutrition, dermatology, and toxicology, both standard and custom formulated diets are available. The daily listeners save an additional 10% on your first purchase. Visit just food for dogs.com and enter promo code the daily, or visited just food for dogs, retail, location nationwide. Here's what else you need to know today on Monday, the us secretary of defense ordered a new high-level investigation into a 2019 airstrike in Syria that killed dozens of women and children. The airstrike was deliberately hidden by the U S military until it was uncovered by the New York times. And in testimony on Monday Elizabeth Holmes, the former Theranose CEO accused of defrauding investors, testifying that her ex business and romantic partner sunny hall Wani attempted to manipulate her. The testimony suggested a legal strategy of potentially blaming bawl Wani for effecting home's decision-making when she ran Theranose and oversaw it's collapsed. Today's episode was produced by Jessica Chung, Diana Wynne and Michael Simon Johnson. It was edited by M J Davis live and engineered by Chris wood. 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