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You're listening to Comedy Central. My

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guests, and I as a quindit surprise winning presidential

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historian whose latest book is called

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The Soul of America, The Battle

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for Our Better Angels. Please welcome. John

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Meacham, Welcome

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to the show. Thank you, sir. You have

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an interesting role as a as

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a writer and as a presidential historian.

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You just look at the history of

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presidents. Is Donald

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Trump unprecedented? Have

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you ever seen anything like this? Are we overreacting?

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We're not overreacting, and he's sort of precedented.

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We have seen various elements of

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demagogues, of people

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who have wanted to blow up the

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conventions, who have done the wrong thing, who valued

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hope, over valued fear over hope,

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right, which is what this president's about.

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But to treat him as if he

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is a unique creature

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is almost to give him superpowers

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that we shouldn't endow him with. That's an

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interesting point. Do you think though, that maybe

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he doesn't It's not that we're giving him superpowers

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that he lives in an age way. He has superpowers

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like you know, some of the presidents you talk about in the book,

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and some of the leaders like McCarthy, for instance, as

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a senator, we see similar traits

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to Trump, but they didn't have Twitter,

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they didn't have mediums that helped

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them connect with as many people. The thing I would

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this is not a book about or arguing about,

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Hey, let's relax because we've been here

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before. It's let's get to work,

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learn from what we've done before, and press

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forward. If you hadn't been used to

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a printing press, or if you hadn't been used

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to radio, or you hadn't been used to television,

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hey, it's the information super Highway coming.

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You know, uh, more than under

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forty characters. But the speed

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of communication has exacerbated.

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Trump has exact a serbated damn

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near everything, Uh, come to think

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of it. But you know, we we had a president

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Andrew Johnson during reconstruction, who opposed

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the fourteenth and fifteenth Amendments, who vetoed

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civil rights legislation he

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wanted, wrote in a state paper that people

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of color were genetically incapable

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of self government. So not

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exactly a great moment. You know, he's not on Rushmore.

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Uh, and even the guys on Rushmore made

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mistakes. My argument is

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that we have to find a

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way to protest,

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to resist, to heat our better

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angels, because no

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era is perfect, and yet we've pushed

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onto a more perfect union. When

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you talk about the soul of America, the

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battle for our better angels, you you're

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speaking about Lincoln.

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Well, the quotes that Lincoln, that Lincoln famously

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said about our better angels looking for the

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best in us as human beings. Do

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you think that that's America's journey, is constantly

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trying to be better than it actually is in

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the soul of America. And in Hebrew and Greek,

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the word soul means breath or life. So

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it's a philosophical idea, it's a it's a religious

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idea. There's room for dr king

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and there's room for the clan. And every

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era is a battle between our best

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impulses and our worst impulses. And

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even at our best, we've barely

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gotten to on the good

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side. But we have gotten

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there. And the tragedy

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of the era right now is that the

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person who is at the center of our national life,

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who in many ways has taken

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over this is the world's longest hostage

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siege. You know, um,

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he's he owns our mind space. You

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know, he's just you know, I feel as We're chained

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up in a garage and no one can hear our

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cries. Uh. But I

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think they ultimately if I like how you

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say this, and like this the most chilled voice

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ever, I feel like we're chained

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up in a garage and no one can hear our cries.

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We go to WASP school for that. Uh,

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it's great, it's great. There's a there's a there's

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a little room at Brooks Brothers where we practice. Um.

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So, it's a picture of George Bush.

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Really great, uh so, and

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he is he is at the center of

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the culture in a in a destructive

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way. Really. When you look at America's history,

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though, and you say it's to learn from

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previous presence, it's to learn how

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America overcame those moments

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of populism and demagoguery, do

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you sometimes think that maybe it would be best served

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to not look at American history, for Trump to maybe

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look at countries where they've had

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dictators that started out

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as a democratic leader and then

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molded the country into something else. There's

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unquestionably global elements here, h And

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unquestionably he would I

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think welcome dictatorial powers.

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Uh. The thing about the American

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experiment, though, is The Constitution

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was designed for just this kind of moment,

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right, That's why we should take some heart. It would

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have stunned the founders that it took ten

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to get someone like this. The checks

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and balances were there the document itself.

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Hamilton's was very good on this when he wasn't

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rapping. Uh, you know,

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he had a dame job. I don't know. You

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have to tell the kids that, you know, he wasn't just

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a rapper. Uh. The

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idea was that that appetite

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would would counteract appetite, ambition

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would counteract ambition. And

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we have these checks and balances right now. The presidency

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is not a force for good. Congress

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far too often takes a dive on this. But

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the press is doing a good job. The

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people are doing a great job, whether whether

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it's the activism on Florida, whether it's the activism

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among women of the shootings, the gun

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control, on the whole host of issues, and

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progress in America and in the world

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has come when the voices of protests

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that are far from power have intersected

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with a presidential moment, and

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where the powerful have heated those voices,

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and we've just got you've got to have

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the voice is rising in a chorus to

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torture this metaphor. This is a guantana mo metaphor

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for for for the voices to rise,

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and ultimately it carries

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the day. Women have not voted yet for a hundred

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years. Marriage equality is not three

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years old. In my native region in the

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South, people of color fifty

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years ago could not vote. And

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yet we've created a country that even

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for all of Donald Trump people,

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what is our immigration issue? People want to

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come here. And

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that's a good sign because it shows that America is slip

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place that people want to come to. But at the same time,

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Donald Trump is slowly turning it into the place that

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people don't want to come to anymore. Well, he's

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doing what he can, but he's

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I've no doubt about that. But remember

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Trump thinks of us not as

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a country but as an audience. And

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I think one of the things we have to do is

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remind ourselves that in fact, we

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were a country before we were taken

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hostage. In November, and

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I don't think you've had sant Augustine on the show

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recently, okay, but but

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I'm gonna throw a quote at you. Um.

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Sant Augustine once wrote that a nation. Is

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the best definition of a nation I've ever heard is

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a multitude of rational

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beings united by the common

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objects of their love. It's a wonderful

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phrase. A multitude of rational beings united

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by the common objects of their love. So

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what do we love in common? Traditionally

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Americans love fair play, equality

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of opportunity, not of outcome, a chance,

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as Lincoln said, to rise up

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by your by your own labor. And

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when we when we listen to those voices,

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guess what, we get stronger. And

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this is not a partisan point. I've voted

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for Democrats, I voted for Republicans, I will continue

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to if Republicans survive the

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next couple of years. But we

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have managed to grow stronger the

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more generously we've interpreted

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the notion that we're all created equal.

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That's a historical data point. The

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war. My friend for reads the car. He likes to point

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out the world's largest air force

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is the United States Air Force. Do you know what the second

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one is? The United States Navies.

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We're doing just fine. We're

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doing just fine. That's a nice way

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for us to think about it. We're doing just fine, but

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we might die tomorrow, thank you. So the

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Soul of America is available

8:21

now. John Meets Him Everybody The

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Daily Show with Covernoah Ears Edition Wants

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