0:06

It is my privilege today to

0:08

be joined by Vermont snowboarding

0:11

coach, Mr. David Block

0:14

and Alliance Defending Freedom attorney,

0:17

Matthew Hoffman. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being

0:19

here.

0:20

My pleasure. Thanks for having us. Well, Coach

0:22

Block, you have an incredibly

0:25

powerful story, and we're going to get into

0:27

some of the details of your story, how

0:30

earlier this year when

0:32

you were at a competition with some of your

0:34

students, there was a conversation being

0:37

had about men, biological

0:39

men competing in women's sports,

0:42

and you explained to your students that yes, there are

0:44

biological differences between men

0:46

and women. Ultimately those remarks

0:49

cost you your job. So we're going to dive

0:51

into that here in just a minute. First,

0:54

I'd love just to hear a little bit about how you got

0:56

into snowboarding. When did you first

0:58

start snowboarding?

1:00

I started snowboarding about 40

1:04

years ago. Okay. Been doing

1:06

it for a long time. A long time.

1:08

And why did you decide to start coaching? I

1:11

had started a local, not

1:13

for, a

1:16

snowboard program on a local hill that helped

1:18

kids, high school kids that one

1:21

way, shape, or form couldn't make it to the mountain,

1:23

whether financial or social or behavioral

1:26

issues. It's a Friday

1:29

pro, we call it a local Friday program. And

1:32

a couple of those parents had

1:33

high school kids that wanted to start a team. So

1:36

those parents approached me and the

1:38

rest is history. And we just started the program 12 years

1:40

ago. So neat.

1:43

What do you enjoy most about coaching? There's

1:46

a lot. As you are asking that question,

1:49

what comes to mind immediately is the

1:51

kids. I love being on the snow,

1:54

the wind and the powder

1:56

and the moguls and the

1:57

tricks and the progression of the kids.

1:59

and all that stuff is just so

2:02

amazing to watch on the snow. But

2:04

it's really to see the kids grow

2:06

from a freshman on

2:09

up. And now I allow middle schoolers

2:11

to come in too. But just to watch

2:13

the progression and off the snow, I think

2:16

it's so incredible

2:18

to watch the progress. And that's with all sports,

2:20

but with snowboarding, to

2:23

watch the kid who can barely connect

2:26

turns, climb right up

2:28

a chairlift and then sit on top of the giant

2:30

slalom course for the first time. And

2:33

you can see the fear in their eyes. And then by the

2:35

time they make it down, it's like

2:37

I wrote them a check for a million dollars. The

2:40

pride in them is just it

2:42

sounds corny, but it is heartwarming. And I can feel,

2:45

I can just, I just feel it

2:47

now. It's just, it's unbelievable to watch

2:49

these kids grow. Unbelievable.

2:52

Well, on a field, they're kicking a ball. That's

2:54

great. I appreciate it. But that giant

2:56

slalom course, when they're sitting there and the fear

2:58

is in their eyes and they do it, it's amazing.

3:01

Yeah.

3:01

Well, speaking as a fellow

3:03

New Englander who grew up skiing, I

3:06

remember that fear personally, sitting

3:08

at the top of the mountain. Exactly.

3:11

You think, can I really do that or am I going

3:13

to die? But somehow it works out and it

3:15

is an immense sense of pride. Well,

3:18

so you have been working as a

3:20

high school snowboarding coach in Woodstock,

3:23

Vermont. And in February, you were at

3:25

a competition with some of your students.

3:27

And like I mentioned, that conversation came

3:30

up among some of

3:32

the students about the

3:34

differences between biological men and women

3:36

and whether men who identify as women should be

3:38

allowed to compete in women's sports. You

3:40

chimed in in that conversation. Just explain

3:43

a little bit about what happened

3:43

and what you said.

3:45

So we were between competitions waiting

3:48

in the cafeteria. And

3:50

I hear

3:51

one member of our team, a boy say, DNA,

3:54

DNA. And that caught my ear. That

3:56

kept going about my business. And then I heard the

3:58

word transphobe. And that's what caught

4:00

my ear. And so I went over and

4:02

I've been involved in conversations, not

4:05

this subject, but other conversations where I just

4:07

share fact. Like that is my protocol.

4:10

I keep my opinion as far out of these

4:12

things. I mean, I've been doing this a long time and I know.

4:15

So I just shared my opinion. And basically

4:18

it was, boys are different than biological

4:20

boys are different than biological girls. And

4:23

there are physical

4:25

characteristics that help boys

4:28

become stronger. Different

4:30

muscles, different bones, that

4:32

was it. And it's

4:34

just a simple conversation, less

4:37

than two minutes. And that

4:39

was it. Everybody was happy. There was no

4:41

issue.

4:42

Yeah. Were there any other

4:45

personnel, teachers involved in that conversation?

4:49

No, it was just myself and the two

4:51

students, the male and the female on our team.

4:53

Okay. So then the next

4:55

day you're preparing to go to work and

4:58

the superintendent calls you into your

5:00

office. What does she say?

5:02

Right. So she first

5:05

had the athletic director call me, asked me

5:07

what I said. I told him exactly what I told

5:09

you. And he

5:12

said, well, I need you to go to the superintendent's office.

5:15

And I thought it was going to be, so Dave have

5:17

a seat, what happened?

5:19

Hear me out. Maybe give me a warning.

5:21

Maybe offer training. I sat

5:24

down, maybe

5:25

I stood, I don't remember, but she slid

5:27

the, she slid the termination letter across

5:29

the table. I was fired the moment I walked

5:31

in that room.

5:33

That was it.

5:34

What were you thinking in that moment?

5:37

Well, to be honest with you, I was rattled,

5:41

but,

5:42

you know, I was just shocked that

5:44

I could be fired for literally speaking

5:47

biological fact, biological

5:50

fact.

5:51

And I have

5:53

a mom and a sister and female

5:55

friends and a wife and I know the difference

5:57

between a male and a female. I mean, that alone.

7:38

We

8:00

know that they're claiming

8:03

that there was a violation of the Windsor

8:05

Central Supervisor

8:07

Union Board's harassment hazing and bullying

8:10

policy as well as the Vermont's principles

8:12

association related policy. Explain

8:15

what these policies are and why

8:17

they say coach was in violation of them.

8:20

Yes, the school district says that

8:22

this conversation Coach Block had, which

8:24

was respectful among all parties, harassed

8:27

the student based on gender identity. For

8:29

a student that wasn't even present at the,

8:33

for the conversation at all. And

8:35

so that's extremely problematic under the First

8:37

Amendment, because what is clear

8:40

is that we all have the freedom to discuss important

8:42

matters of public concern and we don't lose that

8:44

sacrifice when we become coaches. And

8:47

the First Amendment certainly protects that right against

8:50

overbroad policies that censor speech like

8:52

the ones that issue in this case. Okay,

8:54

so what what

8:56

is Alliance defending freedom arguing

8:59

then for Coach Block?

9:00

So we have asked the court to reinstate

9:03

Coach Block as coach for the upcoming season

9:05

because he was wrongfully terminated in retaliation

9:08

for his protected speech. We had a hearing

9:10

on that in September and the court is

9:13

currently considering our request to reinstate

9:15

Coach Block. So we hope that he'll be here

9:17

for the upcoming season, able to coach those

9:20

kids again. And we're

9:22

arguing that you can't, you cannot fire

9:24

people, you cannot fire employees and

9:26

coaches for expressing their opinions

9:28

on important issues that affect the

9:30

rights of children, parents, teachers,

9:34

administrators, all the above and

9:37

discuss this important issue.

9:38

Yeah, it's well known that

9:40

Vermont is not necessarily a conservative

9:43

state. How did that hearing

9:45

in September in Vermont go?

9:48

Well, we presented our case, Coach

9:50

Block took the stand and

9:53

told the court exactly what we

9:56

discussed here about expressing

9:59

his opinion on this important issue. an issue. A

10:01

student also testified and one

10:03

of Coach Block's players, snowboarders,

10:06

also testified discussing conversation

10:08

too. And so, you know,

10:11

people have different views on this topic, but I

10:13

think one thing we should all agree on is nobody

10:16

should be fired just for respectfully expressing

10:18

their

10:18

opinion. Coach Block,

10:21

why did you decide that you wanted

10:23

to take legal action? There's

10:25

several reasons and it's been an emotional

10:28

spectrum. Yeah. But immediately,

10:30

I

10:31

went right to the girls. I just know that

10:34

my team, these girls are out practicing

10:36

day and night. They're at the Hill just about

10:38

every day. There's a one day that we don't

10:40

practice and we're otherwise at competitions

10:43

or I practice. These girls show up and

10:45

they are working hard and they take a bus

10:47

two hours away. They show up

10:50

and they lose because there's

10:52

someone with a huge biological

10:54

advantage. And I

10:57

feel confident that

10:58

the girls on the Woodstock snowboard team are

11:01

some of the hardest working teams

11:03

out there. I just, they're dedicated.

11:06

They have backyard trick areas

11:08

and they're practicing their giant slough.

11:10

I mean, they're just amazing people and great

11:12

athletes and focused. And then it's just so

11:15

unfair. That was a big motivator. Freedom

11:17

of speech, huge motivator. We

11:19

have a local coach and then this is as I

11:21

thought about it more, like what am I doing in the

11:24

moment? That's what those two items. The

11:26

second one was what confirmed my belief

11:28

was the, we

11:30

have a local coach 20 minutes away

11:33

who has gone through the same thing that I

11:35

am. And he had a

11:37

lot to lose and he stood up and

11:39

that was a confirmation. And then there was

11:41

a book that I, that I recently

11:43

read and it just basically talks

11:46

about what's going on in our country and

11:48

all Americans need to stand up, especially

11:51

the ones that believe this, the ones hiding in the shadows

11:53

are not helping this cause, not helping

11:56

themselves, not helping this country.

11:58

It's just really.

13:59

thing and that everyone has

14:02

the right to express their opinion and

14:04

no one should lose their job for speaking

14:06

the truth and just

14:09

don't be afraid it's it's it's worth

14:11

fighting for even

14:12

you know I'm fighting for people who I disagree

14:15

with you know I'm fighting for everyone's

14:17

freedom of speech and there

14:19

is a biological difference between

14:22

boys and girls and just

14:24

everybody just has to stand up.

14:26

Gentlemen thank you so much

14:29

for your time Matthew Hoffman of Alliance Defending

14:31

Freedom

14:31

and coach Flock Vermont

14:34

Woodstock snowboarding coach thank

14:36

you so much really

14:38

really appreciate y'all time today. My

14:40

pleasure thanks for having us. The

14:45

Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by

14:47

more than half a million members of the Heritage

14:49

Foundation. Executive producers

14:52

are Rob Louie and Kate Trinko. Producers

14:54

are Virginia Allen and Samantha Asheris.

14:57

Sound design by Lauren Evans, Mark Guiney

15:00

and John Popp. To learn more

15:02

please visit DailySignal.com