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1:59

Hey, it's Welcome.

2:01

Then. Another episode of a deal to podcast,

2:03

as you know, I love books, their

2:06

what make the when do for

2:08

fun and then, of course, if that wasn't

2:10

enough. also have this bookstore, it's the painted ports

2:12

here and Bastard Texas, which all

2:14

of you are welcome and would lead and I'd love

2:16

to see at some time but.

2:19

One of the perks of course of the Daily

2:21

Stock Podcast is that I get to

2:23

talk to authors of books that

2:26

like Ah. get

2:28

to where met, how as I'm reading

2:31

the particularly new books have just come out, I'm

2:33

thinking like, oh? I.

2:35

Want to ask the author about this right

2:37

or AH that reminds

2:40

me of this, want to talk to so and so about

2:42

that and so one of the perks of. During

2:44

the podcast now for two

2:46

years, three years or Adena doing these interviews,

2:48

Zagat to talk to others admired about

2:51

the books and get to bring that

2:53

to you. And in this special

2:55

bonus episode compilation,

2:57

absurd isn't the best interviews. think

3:00

I've ever done with authors

3:02

talking about some big ideas

3:05

from their books. James

3:07

clears can be talking to us about how to get 1%

3:09

better everyday. Robert Green for

3:11

his part is going to be talking about the power

3:14

of Dale. practice pads

3:16

to a bird on the practice of groundedness

3:18

Tom Nichols on.

3:21

the, assault on modern. stinking

3:24

right misinformation disinformation

3:26

and Julia barred is talking to

3:29

us about the idea of phosphorescence

3:31

which I think is so important and so beautiful

3:34

really happy to bring you this.

3:36

compilation episodes and this is

3:39

me chatting with james clear

3:41

if you haven't read atomic habits absolutely

3:43

should syntactic books i think was actually

3:45

the first but the result of the pain imports

3:48

could link in the show notes or are

3:50

to get up at the paint boards or wherever you buy books

3:54

The New Year's resolution, the problem with that is that

3:56

you are focusing, you are starting

3:58

with the results I want to lose.

4:00

40 lb, I want to learn, want

4:02

to know Spanish, you know, Alex you're picking

4:04

a thing and you're saying, I want to get that result.

4:07

When really what you're talk about, identity.

4:09

You're also talking about process,

4:11

you, it should be. want to, want

4:14

you to eat better meals on a daily

4:16

basis. As opposed to, I want to get

4:18

a certain thing or I want to write a book

4:20

is not the right though. It should

4:22

be. I'm going to start

4:24

writing. But, Q you know, it's the doing

4:26

the thing versus focusing on the outcome.

4:29

This is kind of an hour of them,

4:31

I don't know discoveries had as was working

4:33

on the book I'm writing about the topic more is that.

4:35

When you stick to the process for

4:37

you're saying I know when you perform habits consistently.

4:40

Every. Action you take of, like, a vote for the type

4:42

of person you want to become, and so by

4:45

doing those habits, you're casting these little

4:47

votes for the type of person. That

4:49

you are the identity, the bleed you have your

4:51

sort of reinforcing that internal narrative.

4:54

So five building small

4:56

habits by sticking to the process. You

4:59

are. In that moment

5:01

reinforcing that identity and ultimately.

5:04

Once you get to that point or you say, "Hey, actually,

5:07

in our done this, and of times I think this is part of my story

5:09

like am a basketball player, I am a meditator,

5:11

I am a writer or whatever it is" Then.

5:15

You're no longer pursuing behavior change

5:17

at that point because you're already

5:19

you're not trying to be someone new you're just acting

5:22

in alignment with the type of person you see

5:24

yourself to be. In in

5:26

like take, you know, you're great example does,

5:28

as say, someone who has the identity of writer

5:30

or an author. Well, that doesn't necessarily

5:33

mean the task of writing is easy for you

5:35

or that doesn't require any effort. Then.

5:37

Act of writing every day is in

5:39

alignment with how you view yourself, the

5:42

internal narrative of I have an author, I'm a writer,

5:45

your I tried to convince yourself or.

5:47

In the case of many habits or New Year's resolutions,

5:49

people say things like need to get motivated

5:51

by need to get amped up like any the willpower

5:53

to do it. And like.

5:55

You don't necessarily need to get motivated,

5:57

be a writer you already view yourself in that way.

6:00

I'm Nathan you six to have used

6:02

to do the work, but I think it's the work

6:04

takes on a different characteristic at that

6:06

point once you start to identify as the type

6:08

of person who does that consistently.

6:10

It's. It's sort of paradoxical, so I get was

6:13

it's hard for people to understand, like youths use

6:15

your bill belichick for someone talk about the process

6:17

a new like, but you've won. The most games

6:19

that have any one works or in Zen in

6:21

the art of Archer, you know, he talks about know, put

6:23

the target out of your mind, you know?

6:27

What's? The point of archery: If you're not aiming

6:29

at the target right so it's it feels insane

6:32

and that's probably why people have resistance

6:34

to it and that I think we're. I've come down as like

6:36

of the obviously having goals

6:38

is better than someone who has no goals,

6:41

but then it's like once you have the goal

6:43

philosophical you get to A. Place where the goal

6:45

becomes not important, so it's a, it's a

6:47

weird contradiction that you're asking

6:50

people to wrap their heads around while

6:52

and I can feel like if you really. Care about the

6:54

goal, your focus on system, you

6:56

know, like, if you, if you actually care about

6:58

getting the results, which supposedly is

7:00

what we all are doing this for the. Archers trying to

7:02

hit the bull's eye, the to ballplayers trying to

7:04

win the championship and so on. The

7:06

personally results matter so much, we care

7:08

so much about them. And this

7:10

is coming by the way from someone who is very results

7:13

oriented like I've gotta have done enough like

7:15

do therapy or myself or whatever to give

7:17

us a to focus on the process more and not be so hung

7:19

up on the outcome. That if

7:21

you do care about the outcome so much, then

7:24

you need to focus on the system in the process because

7:26

that's how you actually see that. And furthermore.

7:29

Being. outcome Focus will help

7:31

you achieve goal one time, but if

7:33

you want to keep winning again and again you

7:36

have to be focused on the system and so

7:38

AH goals. "Are good for one

7:41

time when systems are for people who want to

7:43

win repeatedly and I feel like that's

7:45

gonna where am, think about the

7:47

distinction between the two" Yeah, what's that

7:49

what's that show for it psycho once you're lucky

7:52

twice yeah you have good systems in

7:54

or twice or good you know it it's like doing

7:56

at once is? Easy or it can be random,

7:59

but if you're trying. The replicated there needs to be

8:01

some sort of process.

8:03

And. I'd be furious you as an author like again,

8:06

discuss the sports them as you, how you want your

8:08

book to be successful, know what writes a book

8:10

and then they hope. Nobody reads it, but

8:12

then there's the also the place this sub

8:15

process comes and marks really sucks about

8:17

as he does like sanity, his time,

8:19

your happiness, your own actions. Like,

8:22

if your goal on your buck It

8:24

like you can't really have system

8:27

that guarantees you.

8:29

To. Much have the external results have you can't have a

8:31

system that is going to make your book number

8:33

one, narrow times have sell, you can have system

8:35

that should. Generate good book, you

8:38

know, can have the system to focus on

8:40

the parts that are in your control and then

8:42

you also have get to place where you write.

8:44

off the parts that are not in your control,

8:46

as being much

8:48

less consequential.

8:50

Yeah. I kind of think about it like you

8:52

have things that you don't control it all the

8:54

weather, for example, then he of thing see

8:57

you influence, but you don't control them.

8:59

You know like if you're playing someone in tennis you

9:01

can influence the outcome you can control

9:03

how they play or where they should hit their shots

9:05

or whatever and. then he of things

9:07

that you're like fully under your control you know what

9:09

you choose where today or whatever The

9:12

and most of the things

9:14

that really matter in Lysol in the middle category,

9:16

you can influence them for UK totally

9:19

control them. And so, at

9:21

some point of bellies for myself, like

9:23

with writing and some habits, I had a kind of be

9:25

at peace with. The effort

9:27

that I put in or something like didn't want

9:30

to get to the end of it, you know, depending on how you

9:32

measure it, it took somewhere between three

9:34

to five years to finish the book. Your

9:36

whole don't want to get the end of that process

9:39

and feel like hadn't given the best

9:41

effort could know. i

9:43

will have hoped it would do well and near the bestsellers

9:46

list and sell bonds copies know bad but

9:48

think control bad I just want

9:50

to feel like had influenced every

9:52

bit of that process that could, and

9:54

then, you know, that will see what happens. The

9:57

and. There's

9:59

always. The more you could have done, but

10:01

I'm at peace with the effort gave

10:03

you know, and feel like that's a

10:05

that was try the most important thing for me,

10:08

and then the fact that has worked out well mean

10:10

are just makes it all feel much better afterwards. That's.

10:13

That's the extra, but I mean imagine

10:15

if you'd gotten the results,

10:17

but you knew that it wasn't

10:20

as good like you know that's a

10:22

weird position to be in that. I've been in at different

10:24

times of my life and I'm sure you've seen it with articles

10:26

or something worse you did pretty good job

10:29

but it wasn't like your. Best he added

10:31

there's weirdness to Emily

10:33

still enjoying something about idea

10:36

there's. something about the struggle that makes the

10:38

outcome more us

10:41

you know enjoyable like i think about

10:43

this imagine if you had state your whole career

10:45

he played football as the kittens are high school

10:47

and college and you're finally

10:49

like the kicker on the superbowl winning team

10:51

and he kicked a field goal to win the game And.

10:54

How that would feel after spending twenty

10:56

five years your life dedicated toward that,

10:58

that goal vs being

11:00

like professional soccer player and then you

11:02

retire and you're like, hey, you. Know what I might try offered,

11:04

team and a new turns out you can be the kicker and

11:07

then the starter gets hurt and you end up shooting the

11:09

game winning field. Goal in the Super Bowl as

11:11

like. The would still be really cool,

11:13

but I don't know, but it would be the same because you

11:15

don't have the struggle before it. In

11:17

southern nice to be some kind of.

11:20

Yeah. The height of your joy is tied to the death,

11:22

the your sorrow in that sense, and the more

11:24

the you, the more effort the put in the,

11:26

the better it feels. When you do have some

11:28

success there's a story I just

11:31

found and you can't steal it comes gonna be

11:33

my next book by Ah,

11:35

Jimmy Carter was A. Was a nuclear

11:37

engineer before he was a. politician

11:41

and before i guess before he was a peanut farmer but

11:43

he went to the naval academy and

11:46

die he was sort of up for this promotion

11:48

as naval officer and he was he was interviewed

11:51

by admiral rickover who single

11:53

handedly basically invents the idea of nuclear

11:55

submarine and interests he is

11:57

in this isn't as long interview and these are these

11:59

detour If we like insane interviews

12:02

on he was I got a really difficult

12:04

guy to please and so he's asking

12:06

Jimmy Carter about all his accomplishments because

12:08

you know you. know how

12:10

does you as you do in your classes at

12:13

the naval academy and he says i was fifty

12:15

ninth in my class of four hundred out

12:18

is extremely difficult is it has you do on this

12:20

post things and he goes through any sex

12:22

sort of beaming listing all his accomplishments

12:24

and done Rick overlooks

12:27

at him and he just goes. Did you always

12:29

do your best and?

12:32

He. Was like he was gonna be, I guess

12:34

you know what look at all my accomplishments and

12:36

then, and then he thought about it in, he

12:38

said, "No, didn't always" "Do

12:40

my best and then Rickover

12:43

just got up and less the room and

12:45

he is Jimmy Carter", said the rest of his life

12:48

was trying to provide a better answer

12:50

to. That question, enjoy, it was

12:52

interesting to me to go like, "See, that this incredible

12:54

careers, one of the top people in the Navy" Public

12:57

class, but as soon as he had to look

12:59

at it from the side of like, was

13:01

it actually the best he was capable of doing

13:04

the accomplishment became totally meaningless

13:06

and I think that's a good. That's good

13:08

microcosm of life.

13:10

There are fantastic, that's a as wonderful

13:12

example of this idea in law so.

13:14

Encourages. You to measure

13:17

of outcomes in a different way, you know,

13:19

like, we spend so much time measuring

13:21

outcomes on how they are relative

13:24

to everyone else, you know how much money. My making relatives

13:26

of the person next to me or was number on the scale relative

13:29

to the other people and in own the team or in my class

13:31

or whatever. These other things

13:33

that are like status symbols of some

13:35

sort and this is like an internal

13:37

measure which is. Also

13:41

interesting: we both of those are about feelings

13:43

on is about how you feel compared

13:45

to others and was about how you feel

13:48

with like your self esteem and reputation

13:50

with yourself. And I.

13:52

know there's i think is fire strong charisma to

13:55

measure more in the second way them the first It's

13:57

funny, cause both are our mutual friend Mark

13:59

Manson.

14:00

It. Uses the story David The Stain

14:02

in and are I didn't he goes the enemy

14:04

and he did it in as a subtle arts, but

14:06

you know, here's this guy he gets. He he's

14:08

the lead guitarist and founder of Megadeth

14:11

that seems like great accomplishment, but

14:13

in light of the fact that he was kicked out of metallic

14:15

at that's not. An accomplishment

14:18

and, it's like so many people would kill

14:20

to sold the amount of books that you sold

14:23

but then youths are you can be in if i

14:25

told you at the beginning of your book this

14:27

is what you're going to have it be like stats an unmitigated

14:30

success but you can still but

14:32

that's the problem with comparison and

14:35

focusing on things that are outside or control as you can immediately

14:38

render your own accomplishments meaningless

14:40

by I'm looking at someone who sold

14:43

one more than the Anathema simplicity thing

14:45

we do to ourselves out. why

14:47

we do that you know like i've fallen to that just

14:49

as much as everybody else you can get like

14:51

Whatever your current level of the output

14:54

is or successes that becomes your new baseline

14:56

and many just look at whoever is slightly above

14:58

that and then he was, you feel the way

15:00

you did before and flight.

15:03

You. Need to remind yourself when you wanted

15:05

what you currently have, you know, if there are so

15:07

many things about my current lifestyle,

15:09

but I've spent the last decade working

15:11

toward and. Like I thought that was

15:13

the thing really wanted, you know, and then you get

15:15

to hear and you feel differently,

15:17

so. The know am.

15:20

There's some kind of recalibration that goes on there

15:23

there's some kind of encouraging type.

15:25

of encouragement or we all need to like focus

15:27

on those good bits that we have earned

15:29

already rather than looking

15:31

always looking toward the next milestone think

15:34

there's also connects back to what we're talking

15:36

about him indigo with process for some goals

15:39

or systems for South comes. Which

15:41

is that this is one of the downsides

15:43

of being goal oriented is that you're always

15:45

looking at the next milestone vs

15:48

being process or and or system oriented

15:50

which is yeah. i can feel really

15:52

good about myself right now because got to good hours

15:54

of writing and this morning and out was

15:56

an accomplishment and so like a good day

15:58

already know it's days are Been victory I don't

16:00

need or like be thinking about all these other huge

16:03

Goldman's also and turn into a failure.

16:07

And here is my interview with the

16:09

one and only Robert Green I got to

16:11

talk to him a couple times this year

16:13

at twice in person which was just

16:15

incredible for me and. i got

16:17

to work on helped bring into existence

16:19

is wonderful new book

16:21

The Daily lives Meditations

16:23

on Power Strategy, Seduction,

16:26

The Mastery. The actually the

16:28

second best selling book in the painted

16:30

porch this year check, that out

16:32

in here is my interview with Robert Green on the day

16:34

we lost this is a new book The Daily

16:37

Laws. i see

16:39

it as kind of a greatest hits album Not

16:42

bad, so rapidly, because to

16:44

me, it was as going to question people ask

16:46

me lot day.

16:49

They'll me or someone else with you and,

16:52

well robert greene book should i start with He

16:55

then, he says. forty off

16:58

power maybe two get dark if

17:01

you went with seduction maybe they're

17:03

that's in. it And

17:08

cutlery, of his books to like who's you start

17:10

with it feels really hard but this

17:12

is to me perfect because Basically

17:16

the best of all your stuff in the

17:18

most digestible one. I

17:20

got into a football player actually

17:23

and visit Alabama New is he's

17:25

heard that the laws of human nature

17:27

was really good and, I. probably

17:31

to me that's like advanced class from

17:33

creating maybe not where i would start

17:35

a choice In results.

17:42

Around a lot.

17:46

Our true hero six hundred science.

17:50

you know i have a lot of people we wouldn't see

17:52

Would be reading the last human nature, but a

17:55

slow. Anyone?

18:02

But the way I look at suppose is a little

18:04

bit differently.

18:06

That of a sort of see located body

18:08

has to try. to

18:13

That's one way. You

18:15

know unlike you I did not have

18:17

any success of my life into last century

18:19

thirty eight your sole proprietor.

18:22

they want a very painful experience

18:24

the site Hello. Yeah.

18:29

How old?

18:39

One buy one. The dirt and

18:42

pottery most cosby. The

18:44

drama and probably some he backs.

18:48

On on the and give me all the material

18:50

for the forty lost power and what

18:52

I've learned from all of that crafted

18:55

referred to me.

18:57

That really what I needed to forge

18:59

was kind of this realistic

19:01

help my of.

19:04

thing since you're Parents.

19:12

The world. Relatively of checked

19:14

the enemy relatively.

19:16

That doesn't mean that life becomes this kinda boring

19:19

gray world. It actually

19:21

becomes more exciting for filling. So

19:24

I learned the hard way that had

19:26

a realistic added force.

19:31

Allow me to push him off. And

19:35

why? The power

19:37

of daily prophet.

19:40

I've been meditating. Let

19:43

me. Hannah.

20:01

Warren. Read or

20:03

you have. the There

20:07

are, police match Though.

20:09

Report it every day is going to make

20:12

the mounted on something. That

20:14

is use you. That really

20:16

stood out with Dr. become obsolete

20:18

the really saved my life. I.

20:21

Think that's because from what I found with the Jewish

20:23

joke is a real one's and

20:25

you're getting certain greatest hits

20:27

survey course of the works

20:30

and thinking of our feet. And there's

20:32

lot of man that's more than the forty

20:34

six thousand ended up costs and

20:37

is really on read

20:39

number two and three were

20:41

fifty depending on how. Young for

20:43

money by the bus passes the value

20:45

of the daily practices like imagine your

20:48

meditation. Then. Relatively

20:51

the same as it was ten years

20:53

ago fifteen years ago and the power

20:55

is.

20:56

Grooves again doing same

20:58

thing over and over. Okay.

21:02

You say you mention the glossy maker six hundred

21:04

pages, so there's a presenter

21:06

population that the between six and expert,

21:08

but how many people are going to take time to read

21:11

six hundred page book two or three

21:13

times? The booklet of really influenced

21:15

me it in fact that I've interacted with

21:17

over the course of my life. The

21:21

I can do something really special about the do that

21:23

this was my thesis daily

21:26

or nay Bible study is for certain

21:28

people it's again the words are

21:30

the same. Went you're different

21:32

and what you just went through or

21:34

are going to go through that day is

21:36

different.

21:37

The back of a.

21:41

game Really cool about

21:43

revisiting the same ideas of.

21:48

Oh, and you have to me ideas your

21:50

own have to take with some the teacher.

21:54

Have you? Cash.

22:00

them

22:03

That have to live with each with in your

22:05

own experience, so you read

22:07

a passage. Not

22:09

maybe when I'm really going through right now, that

22:12

kind of maybe recall some experience

22:14

in the past, the might be relevant. Then

22:16

second day of closer.

22:20

and then as you go through more

22:22

and more and more the kind of soaks in

22:24

and you see more and more access points

22:26

to your daily experience Then

22:29

he went. on lot

22:32

How about you live in confirmation?

22:35

Again. Good software using the confirmation

22:38

bias to your advantage for like I'll

22:40

hear from people to do it, how did you know

22:42

and today's entry to do stuff

22:44

that is exactly what? I needed some questions

22:47

as didn't read, wrote in five years

22:49

ago, and you might be and Australia

22:51

and someone in America my differences

22:53

in the same as soon as. Really, that we

22:56

bring to the tax for

22:58

exactly what we need, it's all fortune cookies

23:00

and worst scopes seem to have

23:02

our is that we see and now.

23:05

What are we? already

23:07

knew couldn't articulate

23:09

to ourselves.

23:11

Sort of it, Delphic quality there were

23:13

like, is just pay hikes, your passages

23:16

or just short enough just general

23:19

enough.

23:20

Whatever you're going through, a could

23:22

feel like that was exactly

23:25

the advice I needed that why had

23:27

the experience very weird experience before

23:29

she loves opponent priests in out. They

23:32

would go. My very first

23:34

one too. They

23:37

went to the that.

23:43

Oh, my. I'm

23:47

going to.

23:50

No cash same.

23:53

thing as someone who's in the The

23:57

once we're. Terrible. The

24:00

hello rather get enough of this

24:02

the same things that athletes

24:04

will say, so yeah, you kind of project

24:06

he knew your own emotions on its

24:08

food's at the moment into what you're reading

24:10

this only viable.

24:12

I. Think that's also what happens when it's

24:15

why buddhism and stoicism in

24:17

Christianity often feel very

24:19

alive, even though they didn't particularly influence

24:21

each other because also when

24:23

you boil something down. To his essence

24:25

I can the with it in comedy the really

24:27

specific because universal because

24:31

it's. into something The

24:34

uniquely human. That everyone

24:36

can relate to, even if the experienced a very

24:38

different yeah, and some Iowa

24:40

I was also thinking when was we're talking about

24:42

this book that. The way we've

24:45

been not a honest, but I actually think the daily

24:47

cause of the slightly it goes

24:50

back to the very beginning for you because. remember

24:52

correctly, he told me once that the original

24:55

plan for the forty oz power. Fifty

24:58

two was. Which

25:01

could have been a week in of reading.

25:04

A passage a week, although you

25:06

ever have you got, you got rid

25:08

of that specifically so

25:10

people didn't do that. Like

25:13

playing hard served it to

25:15

our right, I mean, but the calendar

25:17

fixed.

25:19

I mean, there was a metal story

25:21

before his.

25:23

Publisher, normally my of

25:25

relationships are the system. tread

25:27

on me as long as far away from London

25:29

to himself, the books do not. I

25:32

don't trust. I'm

25:34

open to their ideas and the says. It's

25:37

a lot of the. I kept. A

25:47

shirt, so what I did was I, too. For

25:50

the laws. Combined

25:52

them and other ones fighting. A

25:55

man.

25:59

Hearing that.

26:00

The forty eight ah I'm

26:02

a pharmacist rights of actually they can be

26:04

moved or found combined with each

26:06

other not violating the loves.

26:08

Sure, your own tricks that that's true

26:11

of it is twenty.

26:12

Then. Years later, sort of really cared for

26:15

and is an hour or so funny that, like so,

26:17

when is when you're working on, it could be

26:19

forty two to be forty eight. And,

26:22

then ah then once

26:24

it's done it in the world forty

26:27

is obviously the right numbers

26:29

like no other numbers just watched

26:31

it. yet Oh, my gosh.

26:38

Oh, my. The numbers

26:41

have other, the kind of other fields

26:43

and. You know, and so

26:45

he. Work for the number

26:47

fourteen as a kind of power already in his

26:49

pitches for.

26:52

success has it added laziness although

26:55

if they have in the forties animals

26:57

within our distributed so who is copies

26:59

of have imposed i think everyone the same

27:01

obviously there's no forty eight bositis

27:04

only forty seven yeah esteem

27:06

issues since we sort of was backwards and

27:08

like the could have only been a way that of was

27:11

The reality there was there was more

27:13

malleable name it was

27:15

it was, and you know, to be honest with you. They're

27:18

doing research for it done so many

27:20

years ago.

27:21

Handling seventy two hours

27:24

of an original concept was.

27:29

Yes, the men. The patch. Well.

27:37

I'm working on his loss.

27:39

of power

27:41

Great to that for a sitter, yeah.

27:45

Like seventy two and as well just you

27:47

know, go with it and then I sort of like

27:49

rich kid reducing produce.

27:53

Three to four.

27:58

Robert Green was just here.

28:00

Visiting. And a I was setting up a

28:02

for guest house for him when came and visited,

28:05

and I'm wanted to make sure he had some coffee,

28:07

I'm not huge coffee drinker. But

28:09

I know lots people are, and that's why

28:11

turned to my friends at trade, coffee

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and trade coffee is a way to bring

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28:18

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28:26

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29:12

Here is me chatting with Brad Store

29:14

Bird, his new book, "The Practice

29:16

of grounded in This Is Wonderful, I also

29:18

like his book peak performance, so here's

29:21

me talking with that"

29:23

That. I was thinking about this idea of grounded ness,

29:25

which is the new book like was thinking about how

29:27

much more literally grounded

29:29

my life is like was walking on. A

29:32

dirt road this morning, instead of concrete,

29:34

there were no cars going by, I was outside

29:37

like think there's also. None

29:41

of it almost no as you can live in the United States

29:43

at this point is like serve pristine

29:45

nature but do think the.

29:49

A. Even

29:51

as suburbs are more natural than

29:53

the sort of concrete jungle busy

29:55

city life, which find liked, think

29:58

it wasn't until moved out of your. City that was

30:00

quite and then went back like moved

30:03

out and then now when travel their particular

30:05

has gotten older and how

30:07

much how this early the noise pollution

30:10

effects me like you.

30:12

go to your life not hearing large

30:14

trucks or horns or jackhammers

30:16

and then you hear them and you're like oh wow

30:19

this is awful like this isn't natural

30:21

to hear all the time and even get really

30:23

used to hearing it so you're not aware

30:26

of the harm 'Cause

30:28

it harm the tavern in your body, but

30:30

it is there.

30:32

Yeah, in the The Biologist,

30:34

Earl Wilson has done fascinating

30:36

research that basically it shows

30:39

that. If you think of our species

30:41

and twenty four hour clock. For about

30:43

twenty three hours in, I don't know

30:46

fifty seven, fifty six minutes. We

30:48

lived in these open spaces

30:50

in bands and tribes of between

30:52

ten and one hundred fifty people. The

30:55

fanatic tom out of city

30:57

living to an extent even suburban living.

31:00

Is very unnatural to how

31:02

our mind and bodies evolved. Now

31:04

are we a balding with it in some ways, yes,

31:07

but I think they're a lot of modern illnesses,

31:09

anxiety, depression. You

31:12

can throw burn out in there are very much, because

31:15

like the pace of cultural evolution

31:17

has outpaced when our my body systems can do.

31:20

If you put someone in an environment, that is extremely

31:22

fanatic. That it's not surprising

31:24

that person will have tendency to become

31:26

more frenetic themselves.

31:28

Yeah. Other one thing I struggle with and

31:30

talked about this at the beginning of

31:32

still misses the key advice or tell the

31:34

scene of Seneca in his

31:37

ah in his apartment. In Rome, dissolve

31:40

likes shockingly modern sort

31:42

of busy noises and,

31:44

and he says, "I know force

31:46

my mind to concentrate and keep it from

31:48

strain to things outside itself" outdoors

31:51

maybe Bedlam provided there's no

31:53

disturbance within don't want to

31:55

say it's killed, but there is a part of me that

31:57

things like you know if you.

32:00

Really are than are you really are

32:02

still occur, you really had done the philosophical

32:04

work you should be able to

32:06

has stillness or peace or quiet

32:09

or happiness in any environment,

32:12

and so is there? The gonna

32:14

do that weakness, but it's somewhat

32:16

of a in. The

32:19

sheet. The to. Then.

32:22

Just opt out of all that entirely

32:25

and live assertive in artificially

32:27

ah isolated or

32:30

ah, you know, ah?

32:34

Protected or privileged lifestyle,

32:37

do not him in.

32:39

You're in, I think there's a huge spectrum and

32:41

perhaps one extreme is living

32:43

in monastery. Where in the

32:45

outside world is completely

32:47

kept at bay? And then and the

32:49

other extreme might be living in,

32:52

did you know men can't mess give me a living

32:54

in Manhattan? The and. "Them

32:57

is either right or wrong, no,

33:00

I don't like to put a value judgment around

33:02

here, I think" What I'm saying and

33:04

was certainly will marry fiction, reporting he showed his that

33:06

for most people.

33:08

Your temperament can get you so far,

33:10

doing your individual work can get you so

33:12

far and environment matters a lot

33:14

too. Either people

33:17

that have achieved tranquility of mine

33:19

and calm in his you would cost don't as they

33:21

can be in the midst of just total

33:24

circus and. Remain easing.

33:26

com. For her. The

33:29

either people few and far between in is that harder

33:31

than what most people have the capacity for

33:33

yes, I think so, and then it's like. If

33:36

you have a choice, why not make it little bit easier

33:38

on yourself, I mean, I'd certainly by

33:40

myself more creative, more calm,

33:42

more grounded living outside of a big

33:44

city than in it. Then,

33:47

you know, life is for me more than

33:49

just like big self improvement projects him,

33:51

as his will be happy here, yeah, right

33:53

now is it's sort of life.

33:56

Having this is something you see and meditations a lot marks

33:58

reassert doesn't want. The be emperor

34:00

is are forced upon him and so he is writing to

34:03

himself about, you know, how you

34:05

can be happy anywhere you

34:07

know how you should focus on, he

34:09

can retreat inside your saw any

34:11

moment, Ah? Which

34:13

is all well and good. Then.

34:17

If. He actually, if sit there actually

34:19

was a path in which

34:21

he could not be emperor and it wasn't an abdication

34:24

of duty than, you

34:26

know, I I, guess I. Don't see anything

34:28

philosophically wrong with taking it, so yeah,

34:30

if you're fleeing to a monastery to escape

34:33

being gallup problems or

34:35

responsibilities, then you

34:38

know that's not what we're talking. About

34:40

if you're doing it to

34:42

optimize or refinery doing it

34:44

because you have spectrum of options in your choosing

34:47

the best option for you, there's probably

34:49

no problem with. That.

34:50

The either dingo his, I think you hit the nail on the had

34:52

their man. The in

34:54

general, not just when it comes to a place to live,

34:56

but if you're running away from something

34:59

or trying to escape something.

35:01

Generally speaking, that's gonna come back to bite you

35:03

in the ass if you are moving toward something.

35:06

Generally speaking, that's a good decision. The

35:09

in it's subtle nuances

35:11

difference, but I'm I think that it

35:14

takes you either all the way in en route

35:16

towards avoidance and diminishing your life

35:18

or all the way in or out towards enlarging

35:21

allies.

35:22

Yeah, I didn't that's of in that's well said his is

35:24

are you stepping towards the challenge

35:27

or are you running away from the challenge?

35:30

The or in in, you know, and

35:32

ground, and is the framework that I used as, like, core values,

35:34

so what are your core values, what are you really value

35:37

and? Are you as keeping

35:39

something that's scary, are you moving? You

35:42

being greater alignment with as core values?

35:46

There's all kinds of extreme example, somebody that's in

35:48

recovery. Might make the decision

35:51

to leave a community where there are

35:53

users or even just for the physical environment

35:55

triggers use, sir, now

35:57

is that person week I guess it depends on

35:59

who you're. This game, by if that person's core value

36:02

of sobriety or

36:04

a clear mind and nes. From

36:06

their core value of community then of course

36:08

they're gonna leave their community and,.

36:10

i think that so many people myself

36:13

included think it's almost impossible to live in the

36:15

twenty first century and not be

36:17

a little bit addicted to conventional

36:19

definition of success and all the striving

36:21

that comes with it I think place

36:23

for me plays a big role in that. The

36:26

I could get out of a place fits felt

36:28

like I was more in this conventional

36:31

success, your defined by what

36:33

you have, everything is super expensive.

36:36

The replace more we're success is like, you

36:38

know, actually spent two and a half hours

36:40

working on my garden. Then

36:42

I just feel better as a result. Yeah,

36:44

Anna, I think. think

36:47

if you are.

36:51

It. Is is running is

36:53

moving away because it triggers you

36:56

or, you know, makes it hard to be

36:58

sober, is that of a move of

37:00

weakness or is it just as? easily

37:02

have move, strength because it's coming

37:04

from place of self awareness, so it's you're

37:07

saying what I had this sort of problem

37:10

don't want it to some" want to say addiction is self

37:12

discipline, but your sex have a problem being

37:14

disappointed about something so

37:16

I'm willing to. You

37:18

make a giant ah move

37:21

out of discipline to prove

37:23

to reduce my exposure

37:26

to potential lapses in discipline

37:29

right so I like that. Yeah,

37:32

new there, you are you.

37:34

rejecting The peanut M and M's on

37:36

your counter are you not buying them at the grocery store,

37:38

yeah, and for a lot of people it's easier not to buy

37:40

him at the? grocery start sneezing: "It's important

37:43

to call out like the ability

37:45

to move does require

37:47

certain set of like don't love to

37:49

use the word privilege broadly, but I. Used to hear certain

37:52

amount of privilege he and.

37:54

I think it's really funny,'cause cause first started tinkering with

37:56

this idea back in two thousand and seventeen

37:58

story Arrow frogs and magazine. When my

38:00

family was getting serious about

38:02

leaving the bay area.

38:03

Then. I got all these notes saying,

38:06

"Well, you know, how could you ever suggested people

38:08

move it takes so much privilege year,

38:10

just another person that is out of touch

38:12

and of?" course all those notes were coming from people that

38:14

lived in like New York City, L. A.

38:16

or San Francisco, yeah, so this

38:19

isn't necessarily for everyone but think probably

38:21

for. Lots of people that tune into this podcast,

38:24

think that it's often not a lack

38:26

of privilege or lack of autonomy, it's lack

38:28

of imagination to make decisions like. This

38:30

know I talk about moving and

38:33

immigration will be in the in the new book on

38:35

courage and it's interesting people

38:37

some people use sort of lack of. Resources

38:40

as a reason to move and some people use

38:42

it as an excuse not to move,

38:45

but I'm always amazed and people, you know, they

38:47

find out that eleven farmer. That I moved to Texas

38:49

or whatever they're sort of like, "How

38:51

did you palace, how could you do that and it's

38:53

site by making a lot less money than

38:56

you do?" Right, like if it that the

38:58

people that are often amazed

39:00

that one could do something like that are

39:02

actually not. Who

39:04

are not impressed or surprised

39:07

by the lack of or by the? Privilege.

39:11

That made it possible it's mostly

39:14

about, commitment or

39:17

the actual want or desire

39:20

or sort of the again

39:22

sounds like an overstatement but also courage likes

39:24

it: I guarantee you. That where purchased

39:27

my farm for is

39:29

less than many people knows

39:32

apartment. york city so

39:34

it's often not so much

39:37

an issue of resources by About

39:40

determination, commitment or as you said sort

39:42

of core values of it's important to you, you

39:44

can figure it out EG again, this is not

39:47

true someone who's trapped in a project's

39:50

in an inner city or something. Then

39:53

they're obviously some people who are aware. The

39:56

unable to changed circumstances and

39:58

or environment. The from

40:00

for bunch of reasons that are outside their control,

40:03

I think you tend to find the people who

40:05

are most of our

40:07

quickest with the oh could

40:09

never do that I'm actually

40:12

could very easily do it, it just

40:14

decided not to. Exactly.

40:18

So, you, you do open the book

40:20

pretty early on, you get into the stoic, you, you

40:22

talk about sort of acceptance,

40:25

and you talk about, like, like "Life

40:27

is not which think is sort very court

40:29

stoic principle, which is like" Life

40:31

is not easy, life is not always find.

40:33

Yeah, and. If you don't understand

40:36

this, you will suffer on top

40:38

of that because you will be surprised

40:41

you will be resentful, you will be

40:44

ah, but you will bemoan it's

40:46

ah you will, you'll suffer doubly

40:49

as opposed to the person who simply. Come

40:52

to terms with the reality of existence,

40:54

which. The stoics and

40:57

the buddhists and say is not without

40:59

suffering.

41:00

Right handed, how is too, I mean, that's a theme

41:03

throughout the book is? Know?

41:05

My whole model is to go after true,

41:07

I call it truth with capital t so

41:09

principles that I can be damned near certain

41:11

are broadly applicable in

41:13

reliably play out the. Same for people

41:16

in different situations, so I'm interested

41:18

in, like, what does the modern science have to say, what

41:20

is ancient wisdom, not necessarily just one tradition,

41:23

but where is there? convergence and then

41:25

what's like real life practice? You're

41:27

an acceptance, all the ancient wisdom

41:29

traditions point towards this truth in

41:31

the same way. Then. Stoicism

41:34

you said there's that quote in the book if you're going to use your

41:36

head and exactly maybe a little bit different, but if you

41:38

can use your hands in your. Feel like your hat using

41:40

your feet are going to get soaring, calloused right and

41:42

what that means the for gonna live life you're going to get beat

41:44

up. In Buddhism, there's the parable

41:46

of the second era. Which says that

41:49

the first arrow, which is something that you can't

41:51

necessarily control either internally,

41:53

illness externally, something in a relationship

41:55

in your work, whatever it might be back,

41:57

hurts. The second arrow.

42:00

Which is your judgment, your repression,

42:02

your delusion, your magical thinking that

42:04

ends up hurting worse. Then in

42:06

cow is on the whole

42:08

notion of the way it is. The

42:11

dancing in the flow of life and not resisting the

42:13

dance. The so,

42:15

yeah, it's such a powerful thing in

42:18

something there.

42:19

The traditional model of

42:22

the of success.

42:24

Pretty much like swing the entire opposite

42:27

where.

42:28

You know, if something's going wrong like you

42:30

buy stuff and tweet.

42:31

Or you numb it with substance or

42:34

you go on social media

42:36

and you airbrush whatever

42:38

image is wrong, so it looks better.

42:41

So that's a thing for the Buck I know it's quarter you're writing

42:43

to is that so much of what we're doing

42:45

in modern society and really is

42:47

causing so many of our modern ailments

42:51

because, we're wired away from these values

42:53

that ultimately lead to like deeper more fulfilling

42:55

kind of success

42:59

I was very glad to talk with Tom Nichols

43:01

on the assault on modern thinking his book,

43:03

"The Death of Expertise, is a

43:06

must read" That

43:08

definitely book up

43:10

for and of these times to check that out.

43:13

Yeah there's a great Richard Feynman quote where

43:15

he's talking about how hard it is to really

43:18

know something and,

43:20

to work that he goes into truly

43:23

deeply understand and idea

43:25

or concept or of field study.

43:28

on and when you see these people making

43:30

sort of glib Then. The

43:32

club assumptions are equipped, sir,

43:35

remarks are sweeping sort of generalizations,

43:38

are you saying I know it's that true because they couldn't

43:40

have done the work to possibly? Had

43:43

a certainty that they're having I.

43:46

got in the book i quote from the

43:49

utterly ridiculous human being Scott

43:51

Adams, who it's unfortunate

43:53

owners, really, I mean, really like

43:55

is cartooning, and you know he's good

43:57

at cartooning, mean, his punch lines are funny in

43:59

the drawer.

44:00

These are amusing but. this is also

44:02

a guy said give me an hour with you know any

44:04

subject matter expert and i can become an expert

44:06

on the thing

44:07

Well, so I know Scott a little

44:09

bit and I've spent some time with him

44:11

and, and like you, I've

44:14

obviously everyone's familiar with dilbert

44:16

That's almost like the extreme

44:19

end of the spectrum of this where the evade

44:21

it's, it's almost like you have narcissism,

44:23

and then you combine it with the feedback

44:26

loop of social media running get

44:28

a person who is. Basically become

44:30

on tethered from reality

44:33

that I think any thinking person

44:35

immediately goes like. What is wrong

44:38

with this guy and the irony

44:40

is? There's there's a huge

44:42

percentage or huge number of people cumulatively

44:45

who are who are not only like not suspicious

44:47

their like. This guy fucking the gets.

44:50

Yeah. Well, because again

44:52

it's it's, you know, it's being in

44:54

the it's being in the tree house with

44:57

the cool kids are saying,

44:59

"We're all the smart kids, you know, not those" "Stupid

45:01

nerds", you know, down in the lab

45:03

and does it's reassuring

45:05

riots like the skies, very rich, nice

45:07

famous and ease in the entertainment world, and

45:10

you know we're. And. Obviously

45:13

you know he must really know what's what

45:15

and. part of that too is that we have become

45:18

obsessive about the idea that if you're good at one

45:21

thing you're good at anything.

45:22

Yeah I'm like was guys have an award

45:24

winning cartoonist he must know a lot about

45:27

formed oh sees you.

45:29

know which is name and silly

45:33

But. I mean it in the defeat

45:36

of the feedback loop of social media and that's a

45:38

big part of it of people saying wow

45:40

you, know I mean like. guess kinda like the fix it

45:42

a lot of my Twitter presence as people telling me how much

45:44

how wrong I am an Amish they disagree. but

45:48

it really is important to understand

45:50

some of the limitations here in an argument

45:52

example

45:54

The kind of surprised arisen from Switzerland,

45:56

done a graduate student. Was just

45:59

finished her dissertation. Russian politics said.

46:01

You know? Then I

46:03

really want your opinion about this because I,

46:05

you know, I'm i'm curious about

46:07

the better sources and can use

46:09

the right stuff and said look. My

46:12

dissertation, thirty three years ago,

46:14

you wrote your as yesterday, and on this,

46:16

you're the new expert. It's

46:19

okay to turn it over, it's okay to say, look, have

46:21

a lot of accumulated knowledge and I can

46:23

help you something's, but it's also okay to

46:25

say. You know, I'm

46:27

not required to be this

46:30

Omni competent and Omniscient

46:33

twenty four hours a day I love

46:35

the fact that in some environments

46:37

I've been in.

46:39

Sub years ago about twelve years guy

46:42

I went on a scholarship to the Kennedy School and,

46:44

i was immediately the dumbest guy in the room

46:46

and it was invigorating "The

46:48

problem is people don't like that feeling anymore and

46:50

everybody has to say where you're not smarter than I am,

46:52

know all about nuclear weapons.

46:54

I understand Iranian, you know, centrifuge

46:57

inspections you can't talk down to me and

46:59

all that comes from.

47:01

The night I like I'm a pretty healthy ego

47:04

about my, you know the things I'm good

47:06

at about my writing about the work of done.

47:10

It's. Almost a relief to be more say, well, someone

47:12

smarter than me is helping me out here people

47:14

don't feel that way anymore, they take it

47:16

because they are narcissistic and.

47:18

Childlike about this anytime

47:20

someone says let me explain something to you they said

47:22

when he sang "I'm stupid yeah,

47:25

I mean maybe am a

47:27

little bit different" It was among the

47:29

I think this goes back to socrates that the

47:31

essence of wisdom is what you don't know

47:33

and the socratic method is based on

47:36

what it's the. Asking of questions, not

47:38

the making of statements, and think social

47:40

media and particular prioritizes

47:43

assertions of a fact of

47:45

fact and opinion compared

47:47

to, you know, questions

47:49

or uncertainties, and. And it

47:51

prioritizes negativity of course,

47:54

nobody comes on to. twitter

47:57

to or to facebook to say I

48:00

really liked to this.

48:02

And it's funny, you know, because people in it they

48:04

will even. Zero

48:06

in on the negativity and strain

48:08

out the positivity you,

48:10

know every saturday get together with my friend dentist

48:12

hearings was a Screaming

48:16

humble brag my friend the Grammy winning music

48:18

producer you, know

48:20

and we sit around and shoot the breeze about

48:22

bad nineteen seventies music while

48:24

we're listening to old gc case and

48:27

Recordings or old TCG some replays

48:29

on Annex medium and, you

48:31

know about half the tennessee all i really

48:33

remember the song and really love this song

48:36

and do not fond memories the songs but

48:38

the minute say men this song is crap people

48:40

will zero and into your negative but everything Because

48:43

it's almost like our brains are wired

48:45

now on social media. The

48:48

only to see the negative comment. Because

48:51

it's a challenge. No one takes positive

48:53

comment as challenge, no one takes

48:55

comment that, hey, I really like.

48:58

You know, the Allman Brothers as A. The,

49:01

you know, as a challenge to say, oh yeah, but what

49:03

about you know martial soccer?

49:06

What if you say I don't like the Allman Brothers people's

49:08

ah nice are going to fight about and this is why

49:10

you're wrong in this is why you should do this and.

49:13

i think it's just you know facebook admitted

49:15

this recently and it's in the book and my new

49:17

book facebook admitted our algorithm

49:20

appeals to a basic human

49:22

attraction to division and conference

49:26

Yeah, I hadn't it, you know, it's funny that you brought up

49:28

the, you know, some people think that the book is about the

49:30

failures of expertise because there

49:33

have been failures of expertise, which

49:35

is precisely what are people's

49:37

seize upon to undermine.

49:39

The expertise. Generally,

49:41

like, I think about how many.

49:44

You. Know, in retrospect ridiculous,

49:46

are incorrect takes their, my ears are

49:48

dating this back to the Seventies I think

49:50

about, like, what health or died advice

49:52

must have been my seventies and.

49:54

Then that we wonder like why people don't trust

49:56

the medical establishment of the FBI, a

49:58

now it is. Problematic,

50:01

but it's interesting

50:03

that. Then we.

50:06

The failures of expertise have not

50:09

as have made us.

50:10

More. likely to accepted dubious information

50:13

from even less credible people because

50:15

they're an excuse and this is the problem

50:18

with the failures of expertise and this

50:20

is where experts I think kept. The own some of this

50:22

because the public has been so rough on

50:24

them about the failures, rather

50:27

than the successes that experts

50:29

now don't want to engage with the public and.

50:31

Don't want to own their failures, a

50:33

good look at the beginning of the pandemic, we're fouty

50:36

and, you know, CDC, they admit, they said, look,

50:38

we didn't want to cause A. Run on masks on.

50:40

we screwed up the mask advice for owning that

50:42

we're sorry and they're saying ah so you

50:44

admit that you're just bunch of lying charlatans

50:47

that we should never listened to about

50:50

anything right and that makes experts

50:52

gun shy to say no we ever made mistake

50:54

that means we have to just Like everything

50:56

else we ever say becomes irrelevant

50:59

I had someone say to me for example was

51:01

to talk on of, a book

51:03

talk in person on the death of expertise.

51:06

and i pointed out how i've given my own doctor

51:08

hell about Right

51:11

yeah I could talk he told me not eat eggs

51:13

and he he. sort of shrugged nieces

51:15

yeah we got that wrong Okay, well,

51:18

first of all, who figured out that eggs were okay

51:20

for you? Their doctors are

51:22

you running other studies that

51:24

fact checked in on this is called peer

51:26

review and science which is a process

51:29

I'm. but again jani and said Why

51:32

think it's very clear? That

51:34

the shows the doctors don't know anything about heart disease.

51:38

In other words, I want to drink a bottle

51:40

of Scotch and eat cheeseburger for

51:42

breakfast and know I can because

51:44

caught you out on this one saying. That

51:47

now invalidates that you don't know anything

51:49

about anything. This is really a problem

51:52

of again, I keep coming back to this description

51:54

of childlike some, but, you

51:56

know, adults understand that other

51:58

well meaning adults will. easily make mistakes

52:01

and get things wrong. What?

52:03

Children do as say aha caught you

52:05

and now I'm going to dunk on you and you never

52:08

have to listen to you again because this one time

52:11

I'm. you know you were wrong about something and

52:13

people extend that even to cases

52:16

were The experts were not wrong,

52:18

someone pointed out the other day. That

52:21

when, talking about the vaccine you know the

52:23

anti vax or six well this is the same as the

52:26

a that approved thalidomide The

52:28

the drug, the cause birth defects, and of course

52:31

yes the A, in fact. Did?

52:33

Not approve thalidomide and saved

52:36

millions of Americans from potentially

52:38

deadly effects because the U.S., the A.S. said:

52:40

"We looked at this point of think it's safe and

52:43

you people got it. into their head because an expert

52:45

somewhere in Europe failed or experts

52:47

fail. Interesting that,

52:49

and I met this thing that happened over sixty

52:51

years ago. Like, is

52:54

a meet the, you know, if you say like he should really trust

52:56

experts or sex, or yeah, well, what about the

52:58

little might in the space shuttle?

53:01

Where it's, it's funny too, because there's

53:03

this weird.

53:05

Kind of double standard we're like there's this

53:07

great graphics, ah it was like,

53:09

"hey, Joe rogan and, and I know that actually

53:11

know the owners of this company, so it's it was extra

53:13

funding to meets, but as like Joe rogan

53:15

questioning, you know. The

53:18

budget purity of the all this

53:20

data like I say about vaccines or whatever

53:22

and then it was acts meanwhile Joe.

53:24

rogan endorsing ah on

53:26

it out for brand products which has

53:29

you know one study with sixty

53:31

participants that sound a minor

53:34

you know bit of positive

53:36

correlation and that's sufficient so it's as

53:39

if your point about being childlike what we see

53:41

in this is actually not rejection

53:44

of expertise at all but cherry

53:46

picking of expertise tons of fits what

53:48

one once and then ironically holdings

53:50

those experts to the most preposterous

53:53

loose standards of ever go back to scott

53:55

adams spit scott adams really

53:58

only credibility as that this guy It makes

54:00

of newspaper cartoon

54:02

that that's been popular in his wealthy because

54:04

of it, but his predictions

54:06

are like. overwhelmingly. Incorrect

54:09

and wrong all the time, you know, objective:

54:11

We saw this gonna happen that doesn't happen, it's gonna

54:13

happen that doesn't adults, and of

54:15

course mccarthy Jenny mccarthy Meaty

54:18

Banks. Movement: What are your qualifications while I'm

54:20

beautiful? The I was in

54:22

playboy and I'm an actress.

54:24

And I she literally

54:26

said at one point went Google University.

54:30

Right now that that's what I think is interesting

54:32

about Scott Adams is like. If.

54:34

If he were to be held to the skepticism

54:37

or scrutiny that the do

54:40

that the things that are being passed

54:42

out were held to, mean, he would. "Brushe would

54:44

crumble like at cards, house cards

54:46

right it's so it's this weird picking

54:48

and choosing of expertise and then

54:51

are moving are goalposts are the standards by

54:53

which one judges the experts to

54:55

peru and it really all comes back down to

54:58

was here's what i want to do and or looking

55:00

or what i'm afraid to do or not

55:02

do or whatever it is and how can and pick

55:04

and choose information that either

55:07

allows do to do this absolves responsibility, of responsibility

55:09

it's ah were blame and

55:12

then therefore can be whoever

55:14

to want to be that's so

55:16

it's this weird not rejection but expertise,

55:18

but it but of misuse of expertise

55:21

so when does not have to be changed her challenge

55:24

And this is why when people say when you know I did

55:27

my research, always

55:29

come back at them and say no, you didn't do research,

55:31

you searched around the internet until you

55:33

found the thing that agreed with what you wanted

55:36

to think in the first place, right?

55:38

And you did your own peer reviewed

55:41

study, are you went to medical school,

55:43

no, you googled around, you looked at you,

55:45

no health info, mind

55:47

body dot.com, com and you

55:50

found by worse yet you even worse

55:52

than that you, you started by saying, "I think

55:54

vaccines are unsafe"

55:56

So you went and typed in vaccines

55:58

are unsafe and, of course, it brought up.

56:00

You. Know one hundred sludgy web sites

56:02

that will gonna run by, you know, cooks

56:04

and charlatans who will tell you the vaccines are unsafe,

56:07

well, okay you found what you're looking for.

56:10

And then ask you spent all afternoon

56:12

going down that rabbit hole and watching

56:14

you tube videos and looking at

56:16

Facebook means you start walking around thing

56:18

where you know I'm very. Informed on this, I'm

56:21

I did my research. A

56:23

guy. Asked a question

56:25

during one of my talks about this for, he said, "Why

56:27

shouldn't have to listen to these experts when the journals?"

56:31

Like the Lancet or the New England Journal Medicine

56:33

or online, and I can read them anyway.

56:36

And said, and he got for him, you

56:38

know? And want if somebody was sent

56:40

the by since they're not written for you

56:42

since then. You don't even know what you're

56:45

looking at, iso that's like reading architectural

56:47

digest figure, build a house. The

56:50

written by experts for

56:52

experts based on foundational

56:54

knowledge that all of them already

56:57

have. They

56:59

are not there to peruse the back

57:01

issues I mean, you know, was

57:03

like medical students and researchers.

57:06

Then years trawling through these, he

57:08

trawling her sons are trolling, trawling through these

57:10

articles to assemble them so

57:12

that then they can be. Judged

57:15

and tested against each other and then a

57:17

new paper this is again this is called Science

57:20

This is how it's done but.

57:22

i had that weird feeling

57:25

of How did this happen

57:27

says the ordinary citizen and

57:29

you're on when it comes to medical stuff and as ordinary

57:31

is just are they really think that they could just like

57:34

some on just go read the Lancet Metal?

57:36

saddle you know or and i'll be

57:39

up to snuff on this stuff

57:42

The day it the last eight, the last day

57:44

to sign up for the do is to New Year new

57:46

challenge.

57:47

I'd love to have you join me, I'll be doing, and alongside

57:50

you, it's twenty one actionable

57:52

challenges one per day is built

57:54

around the best of wisdom, but for

57:56

what how to be better in the

57:58

new year this is the.

58:00

Time. We start to think about what we're going to do next,

58:02

we're all the time when what we

58:04

wish gone differently or better,

58:07

how still struggling with this or that

58:09

how we've. Like to stop doing

58:11

this or that, and that's what the

58:13

New Year new challenges is all about,

58:15

it's my favorite thing that we do and

58:17

it's three weeks of actionable. Challenges

58:19

presented in one email per day,

58:22

built around the best, most timeless wisdom and

58:24

still philosophy, it should help you snap

58:26

out of this trance we've all found ourselves in

58:28

and. Help make twenty to your best

58:31

year yet, no matter what's happening and

58:33

the world around you go to Daily

58:35

Stoke, dot.com com slash challenge to

58:37

join us had love to. Have you I'm challenging

58:39

you to join me?

58:41

Can't wait to see you daily to dot.com

58:43

com slash challenge. And

58:47

then talking to Julia Baird, her

58:49

book on Queen Victoria is spectacular,

58:51

a biography everyone should read and

58:54

are from new book phosphorescence

58:56

was just joy for me to read one of

58:58

my favorite books as years, so hitters me

59:00

talking to Julie Bear.

59:04

There's. A there's a river in Texas

59:06

it starts shermer and natural spring

59:09

it's, it's in San Marcos and

59:12

the is there's this sort of rare species

59:14

of or maybe the only. Place it's like us

59:17

it's like are an underwater rice I

59:19

forget what it's called but it's assertive. wavy

59:22

like tall grass he entered

59:24

the rivers it's like millions of gallons

59:27

are just coming up you see where the river started

59:29

to just starts out of nowhere and

59:31

is your millions of gallons or is pouring out

59:34

you get underwater cause swim against the

59:36

current at like almost like a treadmill

59:38

or one of those infinity pools and

59:41

you're just watching these like

59:43

Waves of grass you,

59:46

know go sway in the current like

59:48

it's you know you're in the middle of the prairie somewhere

59:50

but you're underwater it's one of the most

59:52

incredible rhythmic things

59:54

that I've ever experienced in my life.

59:57

and you yeah i think you go new experience one of

59:59

those things The many leave.

1:00:01

The me, what the idea of the book

1:00:03

your book is like that

1:00:06

energy that you bring back into

1:00:08

the world's nanny need more of that,

1:00:10

yeah?

1:00:12

I think that shrine and it's almost hard to

1:00:14

put your finger on and that's what was trying

1:00:16

to send. graphite

1:00:18

worries that when you're sitting on

1:00:20

a Hello of, in some

1:00:22

area with is no light pollution, you looking at

1:00:24

the start like, "What is that?" We

1:00:26

all know that say to that.

1:00:29

We all know that it makes us feel better, but Fitbit,

1:00:31

why, and that's why I think

1:00:34

you know. Scientists are a trying

1:00:36

to get so. Why

1:00:38

have we designed life?

1:00:41

To be literally the opposite of that and

1:00:43

to have as little of that as humanly

1:00:45

possible, that is the strange, said

1:00:47

suffering's thing about the modern world,

1:00:50

the infinite distraction. The

1:00:53

the yeah that's really just

1:00:55

environmentally right likes like, for instance

1:00:57

on the Gulf Coast in America

1:00:59

State is somewhat recently stairs

1:01:02

is like law that because,.

1:01:04

turtles are attracted to like you can't

1:01:06

have lights on any building that faces

1:01:09

the ocean so it's

1:01:11

pretty incredible number you're sort of walking

1:01:13

along the ocean it's completely dark ah

1:01:16

and it's you to actually see the stars and

1:01:18

it's wonderful but to think that like

1:01:21

this was a thing they had to this it's

1:01:23

is incredible gifts anyone that experiences

1:01:26

at loves it's just as if you know you

1:01:28

get out of the city and you're away from the white

1:01:30

for pollution you can actually see the stars shot this

1:01:32

incredible and then your life This

1:01:35

only exists by accident or this only

1:01:37

exists because they rammed this unpopular

1:01:40

law down people's throats if people

1:01:42

have barracks if people had the freedom

1:01:44

to choose they would choose not

1:01:47

this, even though they love it

1:01:49

when they have it it's insane.

1:01:52

So true, it's like a to

1:01:54

miss night went will be. Humming toddlers

1:01:56

again that needs and Rayburn attention

1:01:58

I don't know about you, but when I. Hi. download

1:02:02

I'm afraid amassed so it looks

1:02:04

all of my other internet access

1:02:06

on my computer and as a

1:02:08

great market capitalism back him and then sometimes

1:02:10

the have to go with my fine like the other in the house

1:02:13

differently so I'm not looking about

1:02:15

has to.

1:02:16

I have to really fight for my attention

1:02:19

and that's why Eco Resorts, where they

1:02:21

promise you can't get why why.

1:02:24

A because we get distracted,

1:02:26

but the more the world, but, you know, has become organized,

1:02:29

we only tipped over few. You to go? The

1:02:31

more people living in urban than regional centres

1:02:34

the. more we're going to have to be remind The of

1:02:36

the mountain growing mountain

1:02:38

of evidence about how good green

1:02:40

is for as the side of grain even

1:02:43

us lamp even in our health regen

1:02:45

in our neighborhoods in our communities, how crucial

1:02:47

that it's I was just reading an article this morning

1:02:49

about. The shrinking back yard in Australia

1:02:52

on. And what that, in a mean, in terms

1:02:54

of climate and creating kind of little

1:02:57

heat falls so on? Yeah,

1:03:00

it's it. I was

1:03:02

your mind that this to when the. The I'm

1:03:04

not sure if you were discussing the business this growing

1:03:07

I'm Forrest favorite theme movement.

1:03:10

will admit I'm on trafficking

1:03:12

me and not a Tokyo to talk to him

1:03:14

about, and he's very busy and in demand

1:03:16

minds some on. Schumann

1:03:19

Yakuza what it's called.

1:03:21

is so And people

1:03:24

are being taught around the world to be far therapists

1:03:27

and was due to go on nice thought,

1:03:29

the you know on. Walk

1:03:31

into it. Natural areas

1:03:34

and use all their five senses

1:03:36

and take it in slowly and and,

1:03:39

will i find that wonderful

1:03:41

in the sense that the that's what It will do and

1:03:43

obviously it's not too expensive and all

1:03:45

tied up with a guy results of the you know that

1:03:47

not everyone can access that's.

1:03:49

it right thing The doing it also strikes

1:03:51

me at the same time that it's almost sad

1:03:54

that we have to be. taught how to do

1:03:56

that and. The end. Yes,

1:03:58

yeah, like said.

1:04:00

You mentioned indigenous peoples, it's like we're

1:04:02

paying are rediscovering a saying

1:04:05

that was. Has been well

1:04:07

known her, ah

1:04:10

thousands of years by people

1:04:12

that we not only didn't listen

1:04:14

to buy it. Tried

1:04:16

to.

1:04:17

Hate away, and are you take the stuff away

1:04:20

from them, we took them away from his

1:04:22

and tried to indoctrinate them with

1:04:24

our understanding of reality, ah,

1:04:27

to their detriment and our detriment

1:04:29

that's from him?

1:04:31

An end of a when you think about one

1:04:33

of the central tenets of knowledge. In effect,

1:04:35

and I want one, he explained it as well as

1:04:37

it should be explained. The central tenet.

1:04:40

The Aboriginal people

1:04:42

in Charlotte we talk about is listening to

1:04:44

country, you listen to country.

1:04:46

And way a it's.

1:04:48

psychologically soothing thing for person

1:04:50

to take time out and be still and get off

1:04:52

your devices and listen country but second

1:04:55

part of that which He is

1:04:57

a country think now like what are we doing

1:04:59

to country riot has her own we

1:05:01

own caring. for it and

1:05:04

are we Disconnected from we timing

1:05:06

and conquering and plundering and mining it.

1:05:08

Where are we nurturing and and?

1:05:10

aboriginal people have always been to sodium

1:05:13

of the land that's what leads on

1:05:15

the phrase that we always use That's caretakers,

1:05:18

that's fundamentally different understanding. What

1:05:20

it means to be human?

1:05:22

Yeah. And I mean, there's also this sort

1:05:24

of mythmaking or revisionism

1:05:26

that we can tell about, you know, first people

1:05:29

swear at they also had problems

1:05:31

with over hunting and

1:05:34

not Ah. Sort of a burning

1:05:36

large swaths of land to do what they want, I'm

1:05:38

in human beings I think to generally

1:05:40

have this tendency of like

1:05:42

sort of.

1:05:44

There's. A part of us that appreciates land and wants

1:05:46

to be a custodian of it's, then there's the other

1:05:48

part of us that want something for

1:05:50

it's and so he exploited and. We

1:05:52

ravage yet and we steal from it

1:05:55

and we don't realize that we're really doing the stealing

1:05:57

from ourselves and stealing from.

1:06:00

The people that we claim to care about, which

1:06:02

is our.

1:06:03

The family and the subsequent generations

1:06:06

right exactly the everyone.

1:06:08

Hum yeah. i mean

1:06:10

i'm insane evidence of that You

1:06:12

know, eat in Australian history

1:06:15

and we have the oldest continuously the culture

1:06:17

on the planet six. The five thousand years

1:06:19

and one of the big things that actually has been an issue

1:06:22

is. The that.

1:06:25

I'm averaging people always arm.

1:06:28

The burning. The waves

1:06:30

are rolling the climate and controlling the.

1:06:34

In a life than we were

1:06:36

haven't, we have like having lot of discussions around

1:06:39

the Congolese like to receive was

1:06:41

fine, but with visit with not.

1:06:44

Like when know we rejecting their

1:06:46

ancient wisdom on how

1:06:48

you know if you sort of take over certain functions

1:06:51

for nature, then you also

1:06:53

have to take over some of the destructive

1:06:56

ah functions of nature or you

1:06:58

make yourself super vulnerable,

1:07:00

yeah.

1:07:01

That. Guy is like in California, like a million

1:07:03

acres year, would burn on it's own,

1:07:06

and then now nobody burns anything,

1:07:08

and then the whole state catches on fire

1:07:10

and people. Go out at this happens like this been

1:07:12

happening for million years, exactly

1:07:15

are we to serve some U.S. alone on that from I

1:07:17

think that it will quickly?

1:07:19

The yard or there won't be

1:07:21

anything left to learn

1:07:24

bomb. That one

1:07:26

of the things I was gonna ask you as some Victoria

1:07:28

Questions vote, which a loop back to, but I was curious,

1:07:31

you know, like. The going through

1:07:33

what you went through. was

1:07:36

struck when am the obviously before

1:07:38

knew you'd gone through one of the things was

1:07:40

struck by when was reading

1:07:42

about her life. That's just how

1:07:44

much pain she must have been in.

1:07:47

The human being, or just throughout her life, duchess

1:07:50

the pain of the loss of her husband in the pain of childbirth,

1:07:52

but it sounded like when they

1:07:55

when they sort of. elected or body after

1:07:57

death, they were like this woman stand

1:07:59

with it.

1:08:00

Fine, I'll wait and that was one

1:08:02

of those things I was. What

1:08:05

about them because? I

1:08:08

realize that too that's why she.

1:08:10

wanted to be carried around by strong servants

1:08:13

a lot of the time i'm childbirth had literally

1:08:15

kind of ravaged the body in way

1:08:17

that ensued never examined vital The and

1:08:20

on. In

1:08:22

fish and. Jeanette never received

1:08:24

any help for what must have been. You

1:08:26

know, and an ongoing very difficult.

1:08:29

Little condition, so that gave me lot more

1:08:31

insight and compassion to the fact that.

1:08:34

That not physically, my body, not physically,

1:08:36

my volume and have other his hand and health issues

1:08:39

and and. And so on so. Oh

1:08:42

yeah, and that was to the doctor found that she and

1:08:44

yet that she'd have pro months on her. It

1:08:48

on his own on had decade

1:08:50

when he examined her and existing of like to

1:08:52

be tell that story when we tell queen,

1:08:54

is that like to? Oh, man,

1:08:56

and you know, like Sheena going to her.

1:08:59

Privacy is that some? We should know we shouldn't

1:09:01

know and you don't want to be true.

1:09:04

About fifth wheel funny to

1:09:06

understand that in century

1:09:08

toss them and still today what

1:09:11

childbirth can do to women and what they ensure

1:09:13

silently on.

1:09:15

And. Like all that I'd like to do

1:09:17

is important to talk about a Z think about some

1:09:19

of my Queen Elizabeth Resort, a marvel letter,

1:09:21

decades and decades of service know,

1:09:23

but. Then you're like what if you found out she was also

1:09:26

in chronic pain every single moment

1:09:28

of that service you realize like oh.

1:09:30

this was it like an impressive person this

1:09:33

was like superhero like this isn't this

1:09:35

is incomprehensible that person

1:09:37

could have done this

1:09:38

Yeah, so they talk about the veins of iron

1:09:40

that went true. The Tories current

1:09:43

the that's why and they didn't have enough.

1:09:45

of the pain relief in the in the way

1:09:47

that aged now and all a lot of her uncle's had

1:09:49

been addicted to opium and doubt

1:09:51

in my kids don't be certified will

1:09:54

now landsat and in told to

1:09:56

every in i kind of gamble You

1:09:59

don't like that. This just as an all or

1:10:01

estimate, and she was so. Right

1:10:03

arm and, but also the city think

1:10:05

about another thing that she was constantly I'm

1:10:08

at a time. For which was have recruited

1:10:10

know she worked, she won't

1:10:12

marry hard, but she didn't wanna go on

1:10:14

for public can see. On

1:10:17

didn't want to leave the country effect, sure it's lot of

1:10:19

time on. Until then,

1:10:21

if lot of. To be to believe she didn't get

1:10:23

out the to beat you up in front of.

1:10:26

The and Abbey or the Cathedral

1:10:29

and she stayed in for the rest

1:10:31

of the ceremony, but now we would understand

1:10:33

that if we know again that you're right,

1:10:35

but she was in chronic pain.

1:10:38

Yeah, it either Churchill had that joke about

1:10:41

I forget who is talking about buddies like, ah,

1:10:43

there a modest man who has much to be modest

1:10:45

about. Sort

1:10:48

of funny, you know, we admire sort of modesty

1:10:50

or humility, humility or restraint.

1:10:52

At then you look at someone like Queen Elizabeth

1:10:54

or you look at a Queen Victoria

1:10:57

and you're like.

1:10:58

The disperse this person is that way,

1:11:01

but they could get if you look at their predecessors,

1:11:03

particular their male predecessors for

1:11:05

a minute, kings and relatives

1:11:07

of have any nationality in any country

1:11:09

steer like.

1:11:12

I think of what you could get away with

1:11:14

that you have chosen. Not

1:11:16

to let yourself get away with that, it's I'm

1:11:18

always very impressed the sort of

1:11:20

voluntary regulation

1:11:23

you know, like she could have done whatever

1:11:25

she wanted instead she chose to work

1:11:28

very hard and my knives

1:11:30

on isn't any city straight.

1:11:31

The limit the constitutionality she did

1:11:33

meaner have arm.

1:11:36

a visceral dislike of william gladstone

1:11:38

Try to prevent him from coming Prime Minister

1:11:40

Sheikh corresponded with General in the field

1:11:42

directly about how the conductor if

1:11:45

i mean swimming with over a settlers

1:11:47

the kind of thing she did but But you're

1:11:49

right, I mean, she conducted itself

1:11:51

in why she didn't she burst into tears

1:11:53

on fun. The covering how close she was to

1:11:56

the throne. And on the.

1:11:58

i think we know it's a heavy the And many

1:12:00

inherited power, the very peculiar thing.

1:12:03

Of I think we kind of kind fundamentally

1:12:06

recognize that. But the

1:12:08

be. Graph didn't she performed

1:12:10

a duty and for in England has handled

1:12:12

Victorian and. The current and

1:12:14

the community to beaten years.

1:12:16

of The women who have ah

1:12:20

she should never be underestimated as

1:12:22

you know decorative or functional

1:12:24

because of how hard they work on.

1:12:28

and the fact that you know that they've both

1:12:30

of them have been the most famous Working

1:12:33

women. The Times.

1:12:35

One. Of the things in a there's

1:12:37

couple things that in that book that you search

1:12:40

through off offhandedly that really hit me

1:12:42

it's and one of them connects to. The new but

1:12:44

also on, and I ended up doing a bunch

1:12:46

of research out when I read it's producer throughout

1:12:48

this weird thing about William Gladstone,

1:12:51

how he likes to just. Go cut down trees

1:12:54

or, had the as a hobby that strikes

1:12:56

me as it, I mean, it's a form

1:12:58

of I guess for as days and but.

1:13:00

Also just sort of hobby and getting lost

1:13:03

in the flow state of doing a fan. adamant

1:13:06

unusual hobby but i'd say i love the

1:13:08

peculiarity of it

1:13:10

The other try either, both my I've

1:13:12

not had any one way. Together the two books

1:13:14

before it's about fire delightful insight to make

1:13:16

on that's right, I mean, and he would

1:13:18

do it for months at a time.

1:13:21

Then with thousands of trees he jumped out in his

1:13:23

lifetime. Pretty much fun and go off and

1:13:25

really, and I think about what to do about islands.

1:13:29

Where you feel like you know heavy times

1:13:31

and saw he'd would conduct

1:13:33

if he summons he was like. That

1:13:35

if you summoned for his seven financial they

1:13:37

were thrilled about every week on.

1:13:40

every victory That she spoke to him, he speaks

1:13:42

to me as he filled with a public meeting and that was.

1:13:44

Ah to be problem with the awkwardness with relationship

1:13:47

with that are is that you know he was

1:13:49

kind of on strict

1:13:51

and booming and very smart

1:13:54

and but possibly charmless whereas

1:13:57

in. benjamin disraeli was so

1:14:00

And elegant in prose

1:14:02

and manner and constantly comfort

1:14:04

in. In. Her and she was utterly charmed by I think

1:14:06

he was in are really great companies that have thought

1:14:08

that, but no think the city fifteen so

1:14:11

that's, how he. Got into flow been

1:14:13

this is a man who died four to five hours features,

1:14:16

you know, on the stump which itself is hard

1:14:18

to fathom as well, right

1:14:21

he must. Have been practicing them in his head,

1:14:23

as he. did have dog

1:14:26

point for his work That, you know, and that's

1:14:28

in the luxury of being able to do that now.

1:14:31

We can, we don't know if we did that with the, we're day

1:14:33

off little on weekend.

1:14:37

Demand. More of yourself in twenty to

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