0:00

You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show

0:02

on Fox Sports Radio Final hour

0:05

on this Wednesday, we'll check in with the Clippers

0:07

went wrong behind the scenes. Also,

0:10

the book is Three Ring Circus. Jeff Perlman

0:12

has written that book and it has to do

0:14

with Kobe Shack and Phil

0:16

Jackson. He'll join us coming up in a little

0:18

bit. Game one NBA Finals

0:20

coming up tonight that starts at ninety

0:23

Eastern. The NFL is shut down

0:25

the Titans and Vikings facilities. We got

0:27

this latest from the NFL network Tom

0:29

Pellicero earlier this morning. One

0:31

more Titans player has tested positive.

0:34

Still don't have an update on if

0:36

they're going to get this game in this weekend. Would it

0:38

be a Monday night, Could it be a standalone game

0:40

between the Titans and the Steelers. But we'll

0:42

keep an eye on that. In the final hour of

0:45

the program. The NFL has gotten

0:47

through three weeks without disruption for

0:49

the most part, and that's going to run into jeopardy.

0:52

Multiple players and staff with the Titans

0:55

tested positive, so they've halted operation.

0:57

They can't even go the facilities there in Tennessee.

1:00

And then there's their last opponent at the Vikings.

1:02

They might be compromised. Although no positive

1:05

tests so far, the NFL

1:07

isn't in a bubble. And that's what we have to remember.

1:09

Actually, that's what these players have to remember.

1:12

Keep this in mind. The Raiders are

1:14

in trouble because some

1:16

of their players, including their quarterback

1:20

Derek Carr, tight end Darren

1:22

Waller, he hosted a fundraiser

1:24

for his foundation, and

1:26

while we can applaud him for that, videos

1:29

have surfaced of players, including

1:31

Derek Carr tight end Jason

1:33

Witten, they were mingling with

1:36

fans at the event without having

1:38

their face mask on. Now

1:42

here's the other thing. The Raiders have already

1:44

been punished as an organization two

1:47

hundred and fifty thousand dollars. They were

1:49

fined John Gruden one hundred

1:51

thousand dollars for his failure to wear

1:53

a face mask covering in a

1:55

game against the Sins. Now you

1:58

also have the team under

2:00

investigation for allowing a non credential

2:02

team employee into their locker room after

2:04

the Monday night game, potentially

2:06

violating NFL policy.

2:09

If there's a stoppage in play in

2:11

the NFL, it will be because

2:14

players are being careless. I

2:16

thought that this might happen midway through the season

2:19

or the latter part of the season, when a team knows

2:21

that they're not going to the playoffs, and

2:24

look, they're not in a bubble, nobody's

2:27

monitoring them when they leave the facility,

2:29

And here you have a Tennessee situation. And maybe

2:31

this is just a blip on the radar, maybe

2:34

it's just a speed bump, but it should

2:36

be a cautionary tale

2:38

to everybody involved. You gotta stay

2:40

smart here, because if you don't,

2:43

then you could have some games in

2:45

jeopardy. I was told last night by a source

2:47

the NFL expected this to happen.

2:50

They didn't expect it to happen this early,

2:53

because here we are going into week four and

2:56

we may have a team that's compromised

2:58

already. Eight seven DP show email

3:01

address DP at dan patrick dot com Twitter

3:03

handle a DP show spend a lot of

3:05

time talking about the Lakers. They go into

3:07

this game big favorites against the Miami

3:09

Heat, and I want to play with Lebron James

3:11

had to say about trying to accomplish

3:14

you know this, winning a title and doing so in

3:17

the bubble and degree of difficulty probably

3:19

been the most challenge of thing I've ever done. As far

3:21

as a professional, I would be lying if I

3:23

set up here to knew that everything inside

3:25

the Bubble with whatever, would know the toler

3:28

that would take on your mind and your body and

3:31

everything else. Because it's been it's

3:33

been extremely tough. But you know,

3:35

I'm here for one reason and one reason

3:37

only, and that's to compete for a championship.

3:40

And that was my mindset once I hired

3:42

the Bubble, once I entered the quarantine

3:44

process the first two days,

3:46

and then right from my first practice, my mindset

3:49

plus two. If I'm gonna be here, make

3:52

the most of it. And he has so

3:54

far. Now you have the Miami heat waiting

3:56

for him. Yovan Buha

3:58

writes, he covers the Slippers for the

4:00

Athletic and he had a great column and

4:02

inside look at the Clippers and Doc Rivers

4:04

decision to part ways after another

4:07

collapse, and Yovan joins

4:09

us now this morning, thanks for joining us on short

4:11

notice. I appreciate all the legwork he

4:13

did in that column. Let us behind

4:15

the curtain here of what exactly was happening

4:18

during the regular season that led to this

4:20

point that Doc and the Clippers

4:22

part ways. Well,

4:25

Dan, the way it was described to

4:27

me, it was just an accumulation of

4:30

philosophical differences between Doc

4:32

Rivers and the Clippers organization. And

4:36

you know, I do think the three one

4:38

series, you know, blown series lead was

4:41

kind of the final straw, but it

4:43

wasn't just that, you know, I think looking

4:46

at his totality of his work

4:48

in la I don't think

4:50

that success that he had in Boston

4:52

ever fully translated, you know, translated

4:54

in the regular season. But if you look at the

4:56

Clippers playoff resume under Doc

4:58

Rivers, they were kind of always

5:00

at or below expectations in

5:03

the postseason. And I think that

5:05

you know, that combined with when

5:07

he met with Steve Bomber and you know, had

5:09

phone conversations with him several times

5:12

after the loss, you know, when they

5:14

were discussing the future of this

5:16

team and what the roster would look like and what

5:18

their style of play would look like, they

5:20

just were on two completely different pages.

5:23

And you know, I think it's one thing for

5:25

the performance to not necessarily always be there

5:28

or be up to expectations. But when

5:30

you're trying to diagnose what's wrong and

5:32

how do we fix this, and YouTube can't come

5:34

to an agreement, I think that's where you see

5:37

what ended up happening on Monday, where

5:39

they just agreed to mutually part ways. Because

5:42

you know, this was something that I think had been

5:44

building over years and

5:46

even you know, recent weeks. And

5:49

you know, in my story I outlined a couple of

5:51

examples of things they didn't see eye to eye on.

5:53

But this was not some just overreaction

5:56

to him losing the Denver series. I think this is something

5:58

that had been in play for a bit. Yeah,

6:01

I was wondering about substitutions

6:03

that he did and did not make. I was also

6:06

wondering, and this was not

6:08

a well kept secret that you had some of the players

6:10

on the Clippers, and you pointed to this out in your column,

6:12

who didn't like the preferential treatment that Kawhi

6:15

and Paul George were getting here? It

6:17

felt like everybody was all in on the Clippers.

6:19

Vegas had them as the favorites here like

6:21

it was. I guess now

6:24

looking at it, it was obvious that there were

6:26

some issues there behind the scenes. I'm hearing they didn't

6:28

have leadership on this team, Like you

6:31

know, it's just such a strange

6:33

concoction here where you go, Okay, they

6:35

want to play for Doc. You got two marquee

6:38

guys. You got Kawhi, who's on the verge

6:40

of moving into that top ten all time. They

6:42

got good role players, six Men of the Year. They

6:44

got everything they need except for

6:47

they don't have really anything there. How

6:49

did this go wrong so quickly? Though?

6:52

So I actually outlined this some

6:55

of this stuff and a piece I reported

6:57

back in January on their their kind

6:59

of some of their chemistry issues, and this

7:02

stuff just never fully run away.

7:04

And you know, I had an anecdote of

7:07

a substitution in Philadelphia

7:09

back in February where Doc

7:11

is subbing out Kawhi Leonard,

7:13

and you know, Kawhi says something to him, throws

7:16

his arms up, and Doc retracts that decision

7:18

and ends up pulling Lou Williams

7:20

and you see lou Williams reaction, and lou Williams

7:23

gets upset and he just kind of, you know, throws

7:25

his arms up at Doc and kind of walks like a

7:28

sad kid going in the corner, you know, on time

7:30

out. So it was just those

7:32

dynamics were at play, and I think the

7:35

one the biggest mistake that ended

7:37

up happening for the Clippers. You know, now that

7:39

we can see it in retrospect, was that

7:41

this team. I think they misestimated

7:44

how that process was going to go with integrating

7:47

last season's team with two new

7:49

stars. And even if you look at other teams,

7:51

like you know, the Lakers, for example, they

7:53

still had Lebron James, you know, last

7:56

season, they still had some of those key pieces

7:58

you know, last season season before. So

8:01

I think with the Clippers integrating two stars

8:03

into that locker room, especially when you know, we

8:05

know Kawhi Leonard is not the most extroverted guy,

8:07

He's not necessarily going to be the

8:10

leader, the vocal leader in that locker

8:12

room. Paul George isn't going to be that either. And

8:14

I think you did have some guys like like Pat

8:17

Beverley, Lou Williams who were more vocal,

8:19

but it's a weird dynamic when they're not the best

8:21

players on the team. And traditionally,

8:24

you know, the best players are the vocal

8:26

leaders. And I think they just had this void

8:28

of leadership this season. And and Doc actually was that

8:30

leader for a lot of time. You know, Doc is a players

8:33

coach, He is someone that is well respected around

8:35

the league. I mean, we saw what he did in Orlando, but

8:38

I just I don't, you know, I can't always

8:40

be the coach, and I think there were difficult

8:43

conversations this team need have had, that

8:45

need to have at times, and they just didn't do it.

8:47

So I do think, you know, they

8:49

almost were successful in spite of that,

8:51

instead of because of that. If not Ty

8:54

Lou as his successor, then

8:56

who. So I

8:58

was surprised to hear that there actually going

9:00

to be looking at a bunch of first year head

9:02

coaches, you know, a bunch of assistants around

9:05

the league, looking for their own version of a Taylu

9:07

of a Steve Kerr, of a Nick Nurse,

9:10

you know, looking at what they probably

9:12

need. I suspected it would have to be a

9:14

big name, someone who could manage that

9:16

locker room, someone who could manage all the personalities

9:19

and egos, someone who could enter

9:21

a win now situation and deliver a championship

9:23

basically in year one. I mean, they're kind of in

9:26

that finals or bust situation now

9:28

next season. But I was told

9:30

from people, you know, within the organization that

9:33

they're they're going to look for those types of people, but they're

9:35

also going to look for first year you know, assistance.

9:37

And is there a gem somewhere

9:40

in the league that they can uncover that that

9:42

will be kind of the key to unlock

9:44

all of this. So they are going to canvas

9:46

the league and look for that. You know, maybe

9:49

there's someone out there, maybe it is just Tylum,

9:51

but you know, I was also told he definitely

9:53

is a strong candidate, So I think for now

9:56

he's probably the favorite, but he does have other offers.

9:59

Could co and Paul George have saved

10:01

Doc Rivers if they said to Steve Balmer,

10:04

look, yeah, we're not going to

10:06

resign here. If if I wasn't

10:08

that part of the reason why they went

10:10

there was because of Doc Rivers. Yeah,

10:13

that that was and and that's that's That's

10:15

also what I wrote that if they end up winning

10:17

a championship, uh, you know with Kawhi

10:20

Leonard, that might be Doc's greatest achievement,

10:22

you know for the Clippers, because he was a big

10:24

part in recruiting Kawhi and he was a

10:26

big part in them executing the Paul George trade

10:28

because there was internally some

10:30

conflict over are we giving up too much

10:33

for Paul George? You know, could we

10:35

still get Kawhi potentially without

10:37

getting Paul George or is there another star

10:39

we can get, maybe at a cheaper price. But

10:42

but you know, Paul George was one of the guys Kaui

10:44

wanted and they ended up executing that trade.

10:46

And um, I do think obviously

10:48

if Kawai said I'm leaving in

10:50

a year, if if you let Doc go, they

10:53

would have kept Doc. But you know, so

10:55

I don't think he necessarily called for him to be

10:57

fired. I just you know, I would assume

11:00

that he just didn't stop it, you know. But um,

11:03

I think but as as I laid out

11:05

in the story, I do think there's an element

11:07

of like Doc had had lost the locker room

11:09

a little bit, and you know, not everyone

11:12

was on the same page with what he wanted or what

11:14

he saw. And I said during the

11:16

Dallas series that you know, everybody focuses

11:18

on the Lakers. I said, we should be focusing on

11:20

the Clippers because they can lose this

11:23

series against Dallas and and they

11:25

you know, if everybody stays healthy, then

11:27

maybe they're stretched to seven and maybe they lose

11:29

that series. I said, there's something

11:31

going on here. The Clippers

11:34

felt like they were entitled and

11:36

there was only one guy with a title

11:38

who was playing and that's call. They came

11:40

in with the swag that hey,

11:42

we're we're great, and

11:44

I kept thinking, you guys can't just flip

11:46

a switch. It's not gonna work that way. And

11:49

that's how it played out. But if the Lakers

11:51

had been playing the MAVs, we would have been

11:53

saying, oh, the Lakers can lose to the

11:55

Mavericks. But because it's the Clippers and

11:57

you know, Lebron's not involved in the conversation, I

12:00

think people they kind of looked

12:02

past what the Clippers were not doing on

12:04

the floor, like it to me was alarming.

12:06

I think they finally caught up to it and when they go, wait

12:08

a minute, they just lost. They

12:10

were up three games to one, so I'm

12:13

not surprised at it. There's still the element

12:15

of shock though that Doc got fired, but

12:18

you know, he'll bounce back. But I

12:20

think going forward, like playoff, p should

12:23

understand when he said, hey, I didn't know it was, you

12:25

know, win a championship robust, he

12:28

should know just how important this season

12:30

was because his coach got fired. Yeah,

12:33

and there was that element

12:35

internally of they

12:38

were not they were embarrassed by the Dallas series

12:40

that they were not pleased by that. You know, for some

12:42

they felt that was just as that as the Denver series.

12:45

I mean, obviously they didn't lose the series, but they were like,

12:47

Luca sprained his ankle in Game three,

12:49

Christaps Porzingis was out from

12:51

Game four to through game six, and we still

12:53

got pushed to six with these guys, like, you

12:55

know, and they were like, what if they were

12:58

healthy, what if both guys were healthy, maybe

13:00

we lose this series or at least go seven.

13:03

So I think, you know, anytime

13:06

there's these disagreements that there's

13:09

gonna be a fall person, it seems like Doc

13:11

has been one of them. Paul George

13:13

has kind of been one of them with some of the reporting

13:15

that's come out with him. But I

13:17

do think that this had been

13:20

accumulating throughout the season, and

13:23

clearly with the way you don't lose a three one

13:25

lead the way they did, you know, being up

13:28

in all three games, having double digit leads,

13:30

being in the driver's seat relatively speaking, in

13:32

all three games, and losing that

13:34

way, if you're on the same page. So

13:37

to me, as someone who covered the team all

13:39

season, they were clearly on the same page.

13:41

And to your point, they always existed

13:43

more in potential, more in theory

13:45

than in actuality, and that's what we ended

13:48

up seeing in the postseason. And they've given up everything

13:50

with draft picks. I mean they Boy,

13:53

they paid a price, paid a big price here.

13:55

You did a great, great job there and we

13:58

appreciate you joining us and good

14:00

luck with everything with the Athletic

14:02

there, Yovan, Thank you, Dan Yovan

14:04

Booha. He's a writer for the Athletic

14:07

covering the Clippers. Yeah, it was, you know,

14:09

great detail in there, and if you're a Clipper

14:12

fan, it's on the Athletic

14:14

website. It sounds like something that

14:16

Stewart Scott would have said in one of his catchphrases.

14:18

It would be Yovan booha Kawhi

14:22

Leonard for three Yovan booh.

14:26

I did a great job. I like to see

14:29

when you know those writers who do this. And

14:31

I always had great admiration for writers.

14:33

When I was growing up, I just consumed

14:36

everything I could possibly read, whether it's Boston

14:38

Globe, New York Times, it

14:41

could be La Times. I just you

14:44

know those people when they put their byline there,

14:46

and I just remember reading, you know, these

14:48

people who were working hard columnist.

14:52

Then I went to New York and you're around all these

14:54

legendary columnists. You know, Dick Young,

14:56

one of the meanest guys in the media. You're

14:58

around those guys, Peter Gammon's

15:01

when I first met him, Rick Riley, uh

15:05

uh Murray from the La Times,

15:08

Jim Murray. Um, like

15:10

they're just so many Hal McCoy Dayton

15:12

Daily News Blind later in

15:15

his career, still covering the Cincinnati Read.

15:18

Uh So when when I see great

15:20

writing or somebody who's done, you know, good work

15:22

there, I love to point that out. Yeah. McLevin,

15:24

I don't think he was known as a writer, but I always had

15:27

to read Peter Vessey's column in them. Yes, I

15:29

always, no, I got it. I was in there one time.

15:32

You didn't want to be in Peter Vesty's column. What

15:34

did you do? Oh?

15:37

This was Chicago

15:40

Bulls NBA Finals.

15:43

I don't know who they were playing. Um,

15:47

and what was

15:50

his name was? Hill? Became

15:52

a head coach of Orlando, Brian

15:55

Hill? Thank you? Point. And

15:58

I had David Aldridge who works for

16:01

TNT NBA, and he

16:03

was our insider at the Mothership. And

16:06

you know, the NBA Finals are over, David

16:09

Aldridge comes in, he goes Hey, I got this scoop on

16:11

what's going on with the Orlando Magic, and

16:14

I said, all right, we'll work that in. So

16:17

I'm quoting David Aldridge saying that Orlando

16:19

Madge agree, you're going to hire Brian

16:22

Hill new head coach. All

16:24

right, wake up. The next morning, I get a call

16:27

from my boss says I have to immediately

16:29

apologize to Peter Vessey. He is

16:31

angry, and I go, what the

16:33

hell did I do? I guess Vessey

16:36

had something at halftime, but I'm

16:38

I'm working at halftime. I didn't

16:40

even see it. And that next morning

16:43

Peter Vessey blasted me and David

16:45

Aldridge, and I'm like, I all I was

16:47

was, you know, parroting what David

16:49

Aldridge told me. And I

16:51

actually had to apologize

16:54

to Peter Vessey one

16:56

of the more humbling days because

16:59

I'm calling him and I said, look, I don't

17:01

have a hanging to do with this, and he was blaming

17:03

me, and he and David Aldridge they

17:06

had a feud going on for it

17:08

might still exist for all I know, but

17:11

David Aldridge didn't back down from it. But

17:13

yeah, that was the only time I think I made Peter Vessi's

17:15

column. You don't want to be in that column.

17:18

I always loved to read it. I didn't want

17:20

to be in it. All right, we'll take a break. There's

17:23

a lot of juicy detail in this book about

17:25

the Lakers three ring circus with Jeff Perlman,

17:29

And if you're a Kobe Bryant fan,

17:31

probably not gonna like this book. But I

17:33

will say this about Pearlman. He

17:36

writes and it's painful sometimes,

17:39

but he is a guy

17:41

who just writes what he had over three

17:43

hundred people he interviewed talking about

17:46

Shack and Phil and Kobe, and you

17:49

know, Jeff writes the truth. He's brutal.

17:51

But PAULI couldn't read the Walter

17:54

Peyton book that Jeff Perelman wrote. There are some parts

17:56

in there when I started getting into him, like I'm gonna

17:58

put this away. Yeah,

18:00

I should be more open

18:02

minded. Well, you don't want to read about

18:05

somebody you love, you know, and you name your

18:07

daughter after you know Walter

18:09

Peyton. There's a lot of good in the book, but there's a lot

18:11

of honest, tough stuff in the room. And not

18:14

making fun of Perlman. He's doing good reporting. No,

18:16

he did. Yeah, And by the way, Pauli's

18:18

daughter's named Walter, not you

18:20

know it's Walter Hey would have been easier. The

18:24

fact that you named your daughter Peyton papsed

18:26

and you hate alliteration. I also

18:29

don't like when people name people after athletes,

18:31

which makes me a huge hypocrite. But

18:33

it was my wife's idea, and you she said Peyt

18:36

would be a good name, Like, don't tease me. Oh boy,

18:38

all right, we'll take a break. We'll dive into this book.

18:41

My other daughter's named Matt Sue pass Niche

18:44

you were gonna have a dent I think,

18:47

yeah, yeah, daughter's

18:49

named Dent after Richard Dent. Single

18:53

Arry paps, fensic

18:55

paps. We'll take a break here twenty after the

18:57

hour, back after this. So the Dan Patrick Show,

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app by searching f s

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R, or stream us live on the

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Peacock Act. Well, we thought it could happen, and

20:27

it's going to happen. Sunday's game between

20:29

the Steelers and Titans postponed

20:32

this according to ESPN's Diana and Rassini.

20:35

Source has said playing the game Monday

20:37

night is among the options that are

20:39

being considered to reschedule the

20:42

contest. There was also the thought

20:44

from what I'm told that Tuesday night is standalone

20:46

game is also a possibility as well. But

20:49

they're just trying to figure out. One more player

20:51

tested positive this morning. Now that's four

20:53

players. But you're gonna have to take inventory

20:56

here the players. The facility

20:58

has been shut down, and if you're the

21:00

Steelers, you know you're in a holding pattern

21:03

here because you have to go to Nashville to

21:05

play this game against the Titans. But right

21:07

now it has been postponed.

21:09

According to ESPN's Diana Russini, we'll

21:11

get phone calls coming up. I

21:14

was diving into this book yesterday, New

21:16

York Times bestselling author Jeff Perlman joining

21:18

us Three Ring Circus Kobe, Shack, Phil

21:21

and the Crazy Years of the Laker

21:23

Dynasty, and Jeff

21:25

depicts what transpired between nineteen

21:28

ninety six and nineteen or two thousand

21:30

and four Kobe and Shack combined,

21:33

collided and helped bring the Lakers to three

21:35

Championships, restoring the franchise as

21:37

a powerhouse, and Jeff joining

21:39

us. Now, when did you start

21:42

to approach this project? About

21:45

three years ago? Probably I'd finished a

21:47

USFL book and I was looking for a next sort

21:49

of project. And I live in southern California,

21:52

and I just thought, it's not that often you get three

21:55

iconic characters in one subject, sort of

21:57

Kobe, Shack and Phill. It just struck me as

21:59

a release, sort of good subject to tackle.

22:01

The biggest hurdle in trying to tackle

22:04

this, I mean, Kobe wouldn't

22:06

talk. So when obviously Kobe

22:08

was alive when I was working on the book, and he was

22:10

sort of you know, the

22:13

period includes Ego Colorado obviously,

22:16

which is a pretty touchy subject. And

22:18

I was told early on your odds of getting

22:20

Kobe Bryant to talk are not great, and

22:23

that was correct, so that that was probably the biggest hurdle.

22:25

And tell me the number I think

22:28

it was plus three hundred people you interviewed for

22:30

this book is about three hundred three

22:32

or six. I think maybe best interview

22:34

you had out of the three hundred, well,

22:37

there were two. Phil Jackson gave

22:39

me so um. Jeanie bus arrange the interview,

22:42

and I thought I was getting an hour. And when I flew

22:44

out to Montana to meet him,

22:46

he greeted me and he said I said, thanks coach

22:48

for doing this, and he said, I'm not doing it for you, I'm doing

22:50

it for I thought,

22:54

is it going to go isn't gonna go out? And

22:56

then he goes, let's drive around

22:58

the lake. So it was a three hour

23:00

drive around. I think Flathead Lake gets called. Then

23:03

we stopped for lunch. Then he's like, you want to go back

23:05

to my house? When we go back to my house, go back to his house.

23:07

I was sitting on the porch. At

23:09

one point we're sitting on the porchs on rocking chairs

23:12

and his chair goes over

23:14

a cat and the cats go like

23:16

scampers all over and then he's like,

23:18

yeah, I'm gonna take a nap, so you want to get

23:20

dinner later. I was like, yeah, great, it

23:23

was It was I basically won the eight hour, like

23:25

spend your day with Phil Jackson in Montana

23:28

tour, you know, Raffle Prize. It

23:30

was great. And then m JR.

23:33

Rider was on the two thousand and two thousand one Lakers.

23:36

Remember Ji Isaiah

23:38

Isaiah. Yeah. And I

23:41

didn't have a phone number for him, so I only

23:43

had an address. I was going to be an Arizona,

23:46

so I figured I would drive. I have a decent track record

23:48

of knocking on doors, so I drove out to

23:51

JR. Rider's house and uh,

23:53

it was one of my most memorable moments in my career. And knocked

23:55

on the door and a kid answers, and I'm

23:57

like, hey, I'm looking for JR. Rider. It's like,

23:59

hold, a woman comes to the door. Hey,

24:02

I'm looking for JR. Rider. My name is Jeff Romer, reporter.

24:05

Hold on. The door closes, and I hear two

24:07

people are yelling in the background. Who

24:09

what? Who is this? JR.

24:12

Rider comes to the door? Who

24:14

that for you? Hey, my name is Jeff

24:16

Brow and I'm a writer. Or he

24:18

goes, no, no, man,

24:21

no, no, you

24:23

just you show up? You show

24:25

up? Bro, that's not bro. I don't think so

24:28

man, bro no. And he opens the door

24:30

and comes out and he's like, bro,

24:32

I'm saying, man, that is not cool. You do not

24:34

just ride up on someone's house. What's

24:37

this book you're working on? What's

24:39

about the Lakers? He's like, all

24:42

right, I'll talk to Wow.

24:44

You really had to him work him there to get him

24:46

to open the charm and good lucks to get one of them.

24:49

How was Shack? Zach

24:52

was great? I got an hour

24:54

and about twenty minutes or Shack in Atlanta.

24:56

He was fan. Couldn't have been better. And I'll tell you a quick

24:58

Shack story that I just loved. I

25:01

was interviewing him and in the middle

25:03

of the interview that his cell phone rings. He

25:05

goes, excuse me. He picks his cell phone and he's

25:07

on FaceTime, and he's clearly none

25:09

of this. He doesn't care that I'm there as far as it regards.

25:11

But it's his daughter. His daughter says something

25:14

like, hey, Daddy, I

25:16

just wanted you to know that so and so I

25:18

think it was a mother of a friend of hers died

25:21

And she said, you know, I just wanted to know that so and So's

25:23

mom died. It's really sad, and

25:25

Shat goes to her. He goes, I will never

25:27

forget this. He goes, listen,

25:30

I'm paying for the funeral. Make sure they

25:32

know they don't have to pay for a single thing. I'm taking

25:34

care of all the expenses. Just make sure they

25:36

know I'm paying for it. All Okay, all right,

25:39

Daddy thinks I love you. You're the best click by.

25:41

So where were we talking about? It's one of the nicest

25:44

three second moments I've ever witnessed

25:46

in my life. What do we clear up

25:48

in this book, Jeff, I

25:51

mean, I feel

25:53

like I do kind of get to

25:55

the root of the relationship. I

25:57

think it is awkward. Obviously, the book has

25:59

written all completely before Kobe Bryant's

26:02

passing, so it's kind

26:04

of awkward to talk about some of it. I

26:06

do think the root of the Shack Kobe troubles

26:10

kind of go on. Kobe Bryant, I

26:12

think he arrived. You know, he arrived for his first

26:14

meeting, his first team meeting in nineteen ninety six

26:17

in Hawaii. Everyone's gathered around

26:19

Del Harris as a coach. All right, everyone,

26:21

let's just do quick introductions. All right, Hey, I'm

26:23

Nick van Exel from Cincinnati. Hey, I'm Eddie Jones.

26:26

You know my name is Kobe Bryant Lower Marian.

26:29

Nobody here is gonna punk me like

26:32

that was his sort of Hey, I'm Kobe

26:34

Bryant, and players are you

26:36

know, guys are like, yeah, that did not go over well,

26:39

and Shack really wanted

26:41

through the years this relationship. He wanted,

26:44

you know, he talked about it the Batman, Robin, the

26:46

big brother, little brother, and

26:49

Kobe didn't want that at all, Like, didn't

26:51

want that at all. When Kobe got married to

26:53

his wife Vanessa in Dana point zero,

26:56

team meets were invited. Most of the

26:58

teammates didn't know the wedding was happening. Most

27:00

of the teammates didn't know he was even dating

27:02

someone. Throughout

27:05

his career, of veterans were brought in, one after another

27:07

after like JR. Reid told me a great Sir, Jerry Reid

27:10

was acquired in the Glen Rice straight from Charlotte and

27:12

Jerry West love Jr. Reid, And so I really

27:15

love the way you work with young players. Can you help?

27:17

Can you bring Kobe more into the team. Jerry

27:19

Reid's like, I'm on it. I got it. They're

27:21

on the plane, Yo, Kobe, Why don't you come back here play cards

27:24

with us? Now? I'm good, Yo, Kobe.

27:26

We're all going out to eat. Five of us are going out, d Why don't you

27:28

come with us? Now? I'm good, you're Kobe. We're

27:30

all going to a movie. We'll go see a movie now, I'm good. He actually

27:32

went back to Jerry West and said, there's

27:35

nothing I can do here. And I just

27:38

think that relationship, truly was a guy Shaquille

27:40

o'neio who wanted a bond and

27:42

wanted to be this guy to this other guy

27:45

and another guy. And it's not a criticism of him, because it's

27:47

just who he was. Kobe Bryant just didn't want

27:49

that, Like he had no need for it. He didn't see

27:51

it as anything he required. When he was

27:53

going through the sexual assault situation in two thousand

27:55

and three, he reports a training camp.

27:58

First day, he's late, and he's surrounded

28:00

by reporters and someone says, are

28:02

you gonna turn to your teammates for support during

28:04

this time? And his reacts his actual

28:06

response was why would I do that? Like

28:08

he Jest was not a person who sought

28:11

that or needed it, and it drove a real

28:13

wedge I think between the two of them in many ways.

28:15

I remember being in Dallas and

28:17

the Lakers were in town. They were going to play the MAVs, and

28:20

I think it was the night before and

28:23

shack Rick Fox a

28:25

couple other players were out and

28:27

I approached Rick Fox

28:30

and then I said, um, he

28:32

wears Kobe, and he goes he

28:36

didn't. And then he goes, Chack, come come come

28:38

here, and he goes he wants to know where

28:40

Kobe is and Shack goes, he

28:42

don't come out. He don't come out, and

28:44

then he started laughing like it was the craziest

28:47

thing that I had ever asked that where's where's

28:49

Kobe? And they said, he stays in his room

28:51

all the time. Wait,

28:53

I'll tell you two quickies. Um. John

28:56

Sally was with the Lakers for one year Phil

28:58

Jackson's first year, and he told

29:00

me one night he got Kobe to come out in South Beach

29:02

and it was a huge win for John Sally getting

29:05

Kobe Ryant to come out in South Beach. And

29:08

they're at a club. It's ten thirty.

29:10

John Sally is on top of the world because he got Kobe

29:13

to come out. Kobe looks

29:15

at his watch and he's like, yeah, man,

29:17

I gotta go. And John Salley's like, you got

29:19

ten thirty. What are you talking about? It say yeah, I gotta work

29:21

out at five tomorrow morning. I can't I gotta

29:24

go. And then when I was with Shack

29:26

one thing he said to me that I just thought was really kind of telling

29:28

and interesting. I said to

29:30

him, it was my last question, I asked him. I was like,

29:33

you know, you always gave yourself nicknames,

29:35

but it was it was Jovio. It was always

29:37

with a wink, you know. It was always like Shack D's on the Big

29:40

Aristotle. But it's never serious. It wasn't like he

29:42

was really calling himself that. And

29:44

I said and sat and Kobe nicknamed himself

29:46

Black Mama, but he seemed like he

29:48

literally sort of viewed himself as the Black

29:50

Mama, like it was a thing to him, and

29:53

shot kind of he smiled, and he goes, now

29:56

you know what I was dealing with, Bro, He's

29:59

Jeff Pearl. And the the book is Three Ring

30:01

Circus Kobe, Shack Phil the Crazy

30:03

Years of the Laker Dynasty. I

30:06

love the draft day story with

30:09

the Nets and John Caliperry, and

30:11

I read it and I was cringing that

30:14

here's Caliperry trying to do something

30:17

in New Jersey and he's got a chance

30:19

to draft Kobe. Pick up

30:21

the story from there, Well, the Nets are

30:23

going to do it. They have the eighth pick in the draft. John Nash

30:25

is a general manager. John Caliperry is the first year

30:27

coach, and here's Kobe Bryant

30:30

and he's a regional star. That's the other thing.

30:32

Laura Marian not that far away from from East

30:34

Rutherbert. So they have decided.

30:36

They've worked out Kobe four or five times.

30:39

They love him. The one thing they did they actually it's funny,

30:41

they screwed up something. They had to fly

30:43

Kobe from his workout in New Jersey to LA

30:46

and they put him in a middle seat out of Delta

30:48

flight for the flight, and

30:51

his agents were not happy about that. But

30:53

they still they love Kobe Bryant and they work him out.

30:56

In the day before the draft, they call Pam and Joe,

30:58

Kobe's parents, and they said, how

31:01

do you feel about us drafting your son? Because Kobe

31:03

was only seventeen at the time, so they actually had to

31:05

say to the parents. Parents are like, yeah,

31:08

it's great, but we'd love that he's close by.

31:11

So Kobe has a sneaker deal with Adidas,

31:13

worked out with Sonny Viccarat. That's done and

31:15

Adidas does not want Kobe Bryant im

31:17

East Rutherford for the freaking khalit

31:20

read and Ed O'Bannon and I just don't want that, and

31:24

Jerry nartell Um, Kobe's

31:26

agent, are close and Jerry West works

31:28

out Kobe Bryant twice. It's the two best workouts

31:30

he's ever seen anyone give ever. He

31:32

decimated Dante Jones and then he decimated

31:35

Michael Cooper in back to back workouts,

31:37

and he wants Kobe Bryant. So

31:39

they kind of everything is working behind the scenes

31:41

here. He wants, they want Kobe, Adidas

31:44

want Kobe. The day before

31:46

the draft, Kobe calls John Calipari

31:48

and says, yeah, coachs, I've

31:50

been thinking about it and I don't want to. I

31:52

don't really want to play near my parents. I don't want to

31:54

be near my parents. I kind of want to get away, So I don't

31:56

really want to. You guys a draft me. Well, cal

31:58

He's like in his mid third. This is first draft,

32:01

you know, it's a little high energy. He

32:03

goes to John Nash and he's like, oh my god, what

32:05

are we gonna do? This is he doesn't want play press and John

32:07

Nash is like, calm down, so I'll

32:09

just employed don't worry about it. Then

32:12

Kobe's agent caused John Calipari. He's like, listen,

32:14

don't draft Kobe. Did draft Kobe's probably gonna

32:16

be either play in Italy for the year or sit out. He's not

32:18

going to play for you. Calipari to John

32:21

Nash, Oh my god, what are we gonna do? This is the

32:23

worst thing ever. The best moment

32:25

happens. M Carrie Kittles,

32:27

a Villanova All American good flyer, is

32:30

represented by David Fox David

32:32

Fock cause John Calipari

32:35

and says, you know, cal Carrie

32:37

really wants to play for the Nets. He wants to stay. Reasonal,

32:40

if you don't draft him, I

32:42

cannot promise you that I will be having players

32:44

free free agents. Calipari

32:48

is like, holy crap, what the hell again,

32:51

John, what are we gonna do? Calm

32:53

down, says the thing. So John Nash

32:56

is convinced. The night before the draft, we're it's okay,

32:58

We're gonna take Kobe Bryant is going to be a

33:00

generational player for our franchise. The

33:02

next day, Caliperry holds a meeting and the one

33:04

thing in Cal's contract he had final personnel

33:07

say over his general manager. It

33:09

was this meeting. John Nash is there and He

33:11

goes, all right, guys, here's what we're gonna

33:13

do. Carry Kittles is on

33:15

the board of number eight, we're going with carry Kittles. If

33:17

not, we're taking Kobe Bryant. And John

33:20

Nash is absolutely devastated. And

33:22

as soon as the Nets announced of David Stern announces

33:24

the Nets have selected Carry Kittles guard Villanova,

33:26

Jerry West news what the next four kicks are? Another of

33:29

them are sown an interest in Kobe Ryant. And

33:31

when they draft went Charlotte picks Brian

33:33

and they make the swap for Vladi Deva. Jerry

33:35

West goes into Jerry Bust's office and says, I

33:38

just got you the best player in this draft, Poor

33:43

cal if I gave

33:45

you one basketball question for Kobe? What

33:47

would have been? Oh?

33:50

Man? I mean the thing I'm fascinated

33:53

with him truly is

33:56

he he arrived

33:59

and this is to his credit one million percent.

34:02

He arrived knowing he was

34:04

going to be the next Michael Jordan like it wasn't

34:06

a doubt for him, it was zero

34:08

debt. He arrived knowing he was better

34:11

than Eddie Jones and should be starting. And he resented

34:13

Del Harris for not letting him start. He arrived

34:15

knowing there should be posts. When Deal Harris was

34:17

a coach, Kobe goes him as a rookie

34:19

and says, coach, why don't you have more post a

34:22

plays from me? Down low? Deal Harris is

34:24

a response is because we have Shaquill O'Neil like

34:26

the confidence. The one thing I feel like I don't fully

34:29

understand about Kobe Ryant and I would love to. I

34:31

wish I had the opportunity was where

34:34

does that level of self assuredness

34:37

and wherewithal? And

34:39

like he didn't care what his

34:41

teammates thought about him. To his credit,

34:44

he didn't care whatever they were saying

34:46

about him. He didn't care. I think one of the things that

34:48

bothered him about Shack is Shack was

34:50

sort of sitting in judgment of him, and he actually

34:52

didn't. He didn't care. Like it

34:55

was it was like off his shoulder, you know, he didn't care,

34:57

And I just I wish I had that. I'm

34:59

sure most people wish they had that. He had that ability

35:02

where he was just after it all, I'm

35:04

here to play bass when I would love to understand that better

35:06

than I do. So it didn't bother him what

35:08

people thought of him, but he would

35:10

sit in judgment of others. Well,

35:14

I think what bothered him. There are things about just

35:17

as an example, there are things about Shack that really bothered

35:19

him. The free throw thing killed

35:21

him, just killed him. He I

35:24

guess you know. I talked to Derek Harper, former Laker, longtime

35:26

NBA guy, and I was like about Shack

35:28

and free throws, and he was very blunt about it. He said,

35:31

I will give you the secret to why Shack

35:33

wasn't good at free throws. And I was

35:35

waiting for this big answer and he goes, because he didn't

35:37

work at it. He's like, he just didn't work at it, like

35:39

he didn't work hard enough at it. That

35:41

crap drove Kobe crazy. He did not

35:43

understand how you could not hit seventy percent of

35:46

free throws and why you wouldn't work hard at it. So

35:49

he definitely sat in judgment of Shack with that. He

35:51

definitely felt Shack didn't work hard enough. I don't

35:53

know if I necessarily agree with that, but he didn't. He didn't feel he

35:55

worked hard enough. So it was the basketball

35:58

things that bothered him. But was it you? Was

36:00

he sitting in judgment that Shack was off making

36:02

you know, mediocre movies or doing

36:05

this or that. No, he just how does this

36:07

affect me? And you're not shooting free

36:09

throws affecting me directly. Good

36:12

luck with the book, fascinating read it,

36:16

well researched as always with you, and

36:19

at times it was painful to

36:21

read some of the things about Kobe three

36:24

Ring Circus, Kobe Shack, Phil in the crazy

36:26

years of the Laker Dynasty. Jeff,

36:28

thanks for joining us. We appreciate it all right,

36:30

Thanks Dan, Jeff Perlman. As

36:35

PAULI points out, you know that he wrote that book

36:37

on Walter Payton and it was brutally

36:39

honest, I think, and Paully had a problem reading

36:41

about Walter Payton that way. Not a problem with Jeff.

36:44

He's doing his job. But it so you know, your

36:46

your youth sports heroes, you could put

36:49

on the blinders. I guess. Take a break. Last call for

36:51

phone calls. What's in store tomorrow,

36:53

what we've learned all of that coming up next.

36:55

Thanks for listening to The Dan Patrick Show podcast.

36:58

Be sure to catch us live every weekday morning

37:00

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37:02

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listen from inside the Mercedes AMG MANK

37:29

Mercedes AMG Driving Performance. Let

37:31

me go back to a point that Jeff Perlman brought up

37:33

in the book Three Ring Circus about

37:35

Shack and Kobe and Phil Jackson. In

37:38

fairness to Kobe, if

37:41

you have Shack saying, boy, I want him

37:43

to be my little brother. There, I

37:46

don't know if you've ever been a little brother. It's

37:49

not a lot of fun. I have two older

37:51

brothers, and while I

37:54

love them and admire them, I

37:56

don't want to be their little brother. And

37:59

I'm sure Kobe I'm an end going I'm

38:01

gonna be your little brother. That's

38:04

just not who he is. So just because

38:06

Shack wanted it, that's

38:09

Shack saying Hey, you're always going to have

38:11

to defer to me like I'm the guy in charge here, like this

38:13

is my franchise. Kobe, Kobe

38:15

just didn't look at it that way. And Shack

38:17

was a literally, in figuratively a

38:19

big deal. But Kobe was

38:22

never you know, he never felt

38:24

inferior, and you know thought

38:26

that eventually this is gonna be my team. You

38:28

know, I'm gonna be one. I'm gonna be the next Michael Jordan.

38:31

Yeah. See, hey, welcome to the team. How'd you like

38:33

to be my little brother? Yeah?

38:36

No, dude, I'm good. Yeah though, yeah,

38:38

maybe somebody out maybe Eddie Jones will be your little

38:41

brother. I don't want to be your little brother. Uh,

38:43

let's see. Ian Rappaport NFL Network

38:45

says that the Titans and Steelers

38:48

will either play Monday or Tuesday.

38:51

Source said so being postponed,

38:54

but not for very long. Yeah, that was the

38:56

information I had Tuesday,

38:58

and he just confirmed

39:00

what I had said that Tuesday a standalone game

39:03

was a distinct possibility for the Steelers in

39:05

the Titans Glen which you think they the NFL

39:07

would want more a Monday or Tuesday because

39:09

we were talking about spreading out the primetime schedule.

39:11

Maybe get some extra but there's a finals game Tuesday.

39:14

Yeah, I would think you want to keep it Monday night.

39:17

I think you want to be as fair as possible

39:20

to everybody involved here and not stretch it

39:22

into a Tuesday. But I was just told

39:24

that, Hey, there's a chance that could be a

39:26

standalone game on Tuesday. This day in sports

39:29

history, Paulie, what do you have for me? Shocker, there's a lot

39:31

of Babe Ruth stuff. Babe Ruth hit his sixteenth

39:33

home run of the season, broke his own record. The record

39:35

stood until nineteen sixty one, so Babe Ruth

39:37

Holt held the single season home run record

39:39

from nineteen twenty seven to nineteen sixty one. Nineteen

39:42

forty seven World Series televised for the first

39:44

time. The sponsors paid a total of sixty

39:46

five thousand a sponsor the entire series,

39:49

the Dodgers and the Yankees, and nineteen

39:51

seventy three Hank Aaron finished the season one home

39:53

run short of Bay Ruth's record of seven and fourteen

39:56

home runs. He broke the record the first week

39:58

of the season in nineteen seventy four, and

40:01

that was he was in Cincinnati

40:03

and Homard off Jack Billingham, and

40:05

then he didn't want to play anymore. He wanted to break the

40:08

record at home. And Booie Kuhne

40:10

was the commissioner and he made Hank

40:12

Aaron play the rest of that series

40:14

in Cincinnati, and then he came home and hit the

40:16

home run off alt Downing final

40:19

results of the poll question Mick Levin, what's the matchup

40:21

you're looking forward to? Right, everyone says Jimmy Butler

40:23

versus Lebron James. Yeah, And I'm

40:25

curious about andre Iguodala and the

40:27

role that he's going to play. And I've

40:29

seen some people, whether it's on

40:32

shows or in columns, like who

40:34

needs the game more? Well, that's

40:37

obvious. Miami needs the game more tonight

40:39

than the Lakers do. The Lakers

40:41

can survive a loss,

40:44

you know, Miami with a young team

40:46

in the bubble in the finals against Lebron.

40:49

Man, if you grab that first game confidence

40:51

level, that's where that's where they become

40:54

really dangerous. They're already

40:56

dangerous. Maybe they lose in five, but

40:59

man, they got a lot to be proud of so far.

41:02

But I don't want to seem like they Hey, it's

41:04

a nice, cute little story what

41:06

Miami did this year and then

41:09

to regroup and go into the bubble and have

41:11

a young team. But I

41:13

do think they approached it the right way. You got

41:15

a Hall of Fame coach in Eric Spoelstra, Hall

41:18

of Fame GM president and pat

41:20

Riley Jimmy Butler took

41:22

over. This is what Jimmy Butler

41:24

wanted in some of his other stops in Minnesota

41:27

and Chicago. He wanted the younger players to listen

41:29

to him. And he got into Minnesota,

41:31

He's like, I don't want to be around these uncle heads. They

41:34

don't care. And you go in there

41:36

with that team in Miami, Bam out of Bio,

41:39

Duncan, Robinson, Tyler, Hero Gore and drag

41:42

Jay Crowder. They all looked to him

41:45

and he did a wonderful job

41:47

keeping that team together, not being afraid,

41:49

not backing down. You know, they go through Milwaukee,

41:52

Remember they're going against the great Freak,

41:54

and I went said, don't be surprised if

41:57

they win this game. Then

41:59

the Celtics, you know, they

42:02

they did what they needed to do. Now

42:04

you're on the big stage tonight. I just hope

42:06

it's a competitive series. Uh,

42:09

Todd, what did you learn today Lamar Jackson

42:11

cannot be saying publicly the Chiefs or the Ravens

42:13

kryptonite. No. McLevin. Greatest

42:15

season ever? Robert Quinn. Yeah,

42:17

Robert Quinn Junior, the third in

42:20

the last fourteen years, the greatest season

42:22

for a defensive player. Uh set

42:24

O'Connor. What did you learn today? Today is mouldy

42:26

apple cider day? Yeah?

42:28

I had some. I didn't know what mold

42:31

app mold m o u L

42:34

m u l L m moulds Oh

42:36

not mold mule mold

42:39

cider. Wait, how are you? How are you spelling

42:41

this? M u L l e ed mold

42:44

mold. Okay, I just had some. It

42:46

tastes good mold mold

42:49

beverage. Paulie, what did you learn? The

42:51

igh team has learned that the Ohio High School Estate

42:53

Athletic Administration is looking into Mason

42:55

High School in the seventies for using foreign objects

42:58

during football game. And that was my brother. He

43:00

tuned into the show as I'm telling that story,

43:03

and he walked out of the room. Sources

43:05

close to me, tell me what we learned about you?

43:07

By home depot giving a shout out to all you pros

43:09

that are working hard every day delivery options

43:12

to get you what you need exactly where you need it, so

43:14

you can keep doing whatever it is to get the job

43:16

done. The Home Depot, how doers get more

43:18

done? Thanks for joining us, talk to you tomorrow.