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favorite band's about to play a sold out show.

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You got in. Over here.

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With a friend, Aon fought a spot close

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enough to see the necklace. they're definitely

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playing your song. When you're with Amex,

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it's not if it's going to happen, but when

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American Express don't live life without

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it.

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For

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back for back, it's a distraction. I'm

0:20

Drew. That's Rob. Hi, Rob. Hey,

0:22

man. How are you? I just fell off my bike right

0:24

before we record. Oh my god. I fell off

0:26

again. I was coming back. I was like, oh, I don't hurry

0:29

up to cording. I got there speed up. And I went

0:31

on a bridge and, like, it's raining outside. And

0:34

and then I slipped and fallen out. And, like, there were

0:36

people around. So I did a thing where I was, like, oh, it

0:38

looks so stupid. Everyone's gonna

0:40

make fun of me. I'm forty six,

0:42

by the way. Like, everyone was like Well, no

0:44

one likes to fall off of a thing in front

0:46

of other people. Yeah. But like like like you

0:49

know, when you're my age and you fall off a bike, people are like,

0:51

oh my god, he might be dead. He's like, you know, I'm

0:53

like, like, it's not like you're five.

0:55

People are like, he pissed himself.

0:57

Wow. Wow. They they expect

0:59

you to shatter, like, a precious moments figurine,

1:02

the nudged off a ledge. You know what? And I

1:04

have history of doing that, so I

1:06

get it. You know? Like, that that makes sense.

1:08

Our guest, let's get right to it. It's

1:10

ESPN reporter and author of it's better to

1:13

be feared. Repeat guest, Seth Wicker

1:15

Show of ESPN. How are you doing, Seth? Wow.

1:18

I'm doing really well, but I'm really glad that

1:20

you made the joke that was just

1:22

so obvious about you falling because

1:24

I was wondering whether I should do that. Yeah.

1:27

You know the the you do have a history

1:29

of falling in in consequences because of

1:31

it. So Yes. You can make fun of me for fall.

1:33

It's our We're four years out. anniversary was

1:35

this week. Yes. It was. It was it was

1:37

this week. And, like, I learned a point

1:39

now where, like, I don't think about it anymore even though

1:41

I'm talking about it as we speak. now. And then I

1:43

like, but also I don't wanna bring up around my

1:45

wife because, like, again, she was awake and

1:47

I wasn't she's like, she didn't really want to remember

1:50

that. So, like, usually, I'm just, like, I'm

1:52

just like, 00I didn't notice I

1:54

didn't notice it was the anniversary. But

1:57

I totally notice that -- Yeah. --

1:59

let's talk about

1:59

you this week.

2:01

you dropped I

2:02

think what what we consider to

2:05

be and I think everyone ought to consider. The definitive

2:07

story on Andrew Luck in his retirement from football

2:09

and why he cut his own football career

2:11

short. So

2:14

I wanna talk to you about that

2:16

story and get into the meat of the story because I think, like,

2:18

the the human aspect of the story,

2:20

and I told Seth this prior to

2:23

when we started recording. I thought it was the kind

2:25

of story where if you did not know

2:27

who Andrew Luck was and you didn't give a fuck

2:29

about football, it was still a fascinating story.

2:31

It was like it got to the whole man. And

2:34

at one point in the story, You

2:36

had cult tackle Anthony Costanzo telling

2:38

luck. mom You have

2:40

to believe that you are God's gift to the world

2:43

if you're an NFL quarterback or else doubt

2:45

will start to come in. And look, clearly, believed

2:48

that he had to believe that and acted accordingly.

2:51

But Seth, do you as

2:53

someone who's covered the league for as long as you

2:55

have. Do you also believe that the

2:57

best quarterbacks have to

2:59

think this way or else they just get

3:01

or else they just fade away?

3:04

Yeah,

3:04

I don't think they have to think in every

3:06

waking moment of

3:08

the day, but I I do think that

3:10

there's a little

3:13

gear that they have to have where

3:16

whether it's overt or not,

3:18

they kind of

3:20

own the fact that they're different and

3:22

that they're a little special and

3:24

that their job

3:27

everybody else's job kind of runs through

3:29

his. And in on it's

3:33

an interesting thing to

3:35

think about because, you

3:37

know, maybe someone like Eli Manning didn't

3:40

have it. You know, I don't think that

3:42

he never struck me as that type. But just about

3:44

every other, like, great quarterback I think

3:46

has to have that part of their personality

3:48

ready to deploy. I

3:50

almost didn't have to have it because

3:52

of his brother where it's like, okay. Well,

3:54

yeah. And he was a manning. Yeah. Exactly.

3:56

So it's like he he

3:58

entered rooms with leverage in a way

4:00

that kind of you could imagine. Yeah.

4:03

But but I think that Andrew, you

4:06

know, I don't think that that was a

4:08

part of his personality that he indulged

4:10

much until he got to the NFL. And

4:13

we often forget that, you

4:14

know,

4:15

stress and things like that

4:18

can really cause problems

4:22

for people. It can really be something that they

4:24

have to contend with even these famous athletes,

4:26

especially these famous athletes. And,

4:30

you

4:30

know, he

4:31

the

4:33

Coming into Indianapolis, not

4:35

only replacing Payton Manning, not

4:37

only being expected to be a great quarterback,

4:39

but a transcendent one, but

4:41

replacing the type of quarterback that Payton

4:44

Manning was where he was weighing in on

4:46

everything from, you know,

4:48

how the locker room was arranged to

4:50

third

4:50

in short run plays, running

4:52

the organization. The cult kind of expected

4:55

answer to come in and run the organization

4:57

in a same type of way even though he was

4:59

twenty two years old. And that was

5:01

something really interesting in the story about that

5:03

because I think that everything

5:06

you said makes sense. Right down to the

5:08

idea, I think, that distinction between

5:11

Eli as a sort of, like, rich kid

5:13

to the manor born. I mean, Andrew Luck dad

5:15

was not nearly the quarterback that Archie

5:17

that Archie Manning was, but it's not really

5:20

that different in a lot

5:21

of ways as an upbringing. There's just some

5:23

sort of obsessiveness in

5:25

him. Well, that seemed --

5:27

Okay. -- you know, like, unique. And then also, this

5:29

is the part of the story that I found most fascinating

5:32

was that for all the stuff that you said,

5:34

it's not an unfamiliar thing to

5:36

find a quarterback who's got his, you know,

5:39

thumb in everything. as

5:41

just a matter of course. A lot of quarterbacks

5:43

do want that. It seemed like it

5:45

was breaking Andrew Luck's spirit

5:48

to have to be like that. that it was, like,

5:50

in a very real sense

5:51

making him into somebody that he didn't

5:54

really like very much. And I don't think

5:56

that I had ever seen that before

5:58

that, you know, we know about, you know,

6:00

these sort of obsessive control freak

6:02

hyper competitive quarterbacks in the Aaron

6:04

Rogers types. But I

6:07

never really thought about whether they could be otherwise

6:09

or whether they would want to be otherwise. And

6:11

the idea that there is some sort of other

6:14

Andrew Luck, who is, you know,

6:16

maybe not an easygoing guy, but someone

6:18

who is much simpler and happier

6:20

than the person he had to be. was

6:22

really kind of revelatory to me as a reader.

6:24

Yeah. Did you guys watch Free

6:27

Solo? Yeah. Yes.

6:29

I did. That's a really interesting comparison.

6:31

So that's the mountain climbing movie. Oh,

6:33

the rock climb. Right? Like, Alex Hanold. Yeah. So I I

6:35

wrote a big story on Alex Hanold maybe

6:38

a year or two after the movie came out

6:40

and was sort of trying to get at, you know,

6:42

what's lifelike when he moves out of the van

6:44

and into a house with his wife to

6:46

be, you know, because it's

6:49

so different than the life that he had led.

6:51

And Andrew and Alex are different people, but

6:53

there are some parallels in the sense that

6:55

Alex was so driven

6:58

to accomplish this goal that

7:00

his girlfriend at the time, Sunny ended

7:02

up being kind of a silo. Right?

7:05

I mean, Right. Remember remember the the

7:07

great scene where he decides to

7:09

climb El

7:11

Cap, it doesn't tell her. No.

7:13

And and it's a bailing because he do he wasn't

7:15

feeling it, and she's pissed because he's like,

7:17

how she's like, how could you do this?

7:19

And

7:19

not tell me. And he's like, you know,

7:21

It's

7:21

just what I do. Right. Yeah.

7:23

Didn't even I think that didn't even phase him.

7:26

And, you know, it was really interesting getting

7:28

Andrew's wife's perspective on this because she's

7:30

never talked and, you know,

7:32

even though she was an incredibly accomplished

7:34

athlete in her own right and professional, she

7:37

moved to Indianapolis with him.

7:39

They had met at Stanford. But she

7:41

ended up being a silo

7:43

in a very siloed life. And that's

7:45

kind of his survival mechanism to try

7:47

to contend with the expectations

7:50

of the city, the organization himself,

7:52

how to control a game that's kind

7:54

of a coin flip of a game. it's

7:56

what he thought would work. And,

7:58

you know, she told

7:59

me I had no place because

8:03

Andrew kind of just decided her

8:06

role, at least in the public eye,

8:08

that was one part of it. And then the second part of

8:10

it, of course, was that he just he

8:12

didn't he he didn't know how to communicate

8:15

about almost anything. And that all

8:17

of those things that he had built himself into

8:19

that ended up working spectacularly well

8:22

on the football field ended

8:25

up kind of conspiring to be

8:27

spectacularly unhealthy when he was

8:29

injured and how it

8:31

wasn't just that he was in chronic pain. It was how he

8:33

acted in chronic pain. And there was a

8:35

reckoning that he had to

8:36

contend with all of those things.

8:39

Yeah. It was interesting also because and I do

8:41

want to get to the pain thing, but the difference

8:43

to me between Luck and Hanold

8:45

was that Hanold was motivated

8:48

the you know, obsessed, really,

8:51

with free soloing L cap,

8:53

but it seemed like it was a destiny that he

8:55

had chosen for himself. He had a tough

8:57

up bringing. I know that. And I I had to interview

8:59

him too for for

9:01

fatherly. That's where I did. Mhmm. Anyway,

9:04

But with luck, it seemed like it was

9:06

a very classic case of someone

9:08

whose destiny was handed

9:10

to him and said, okay, this

9:12

is the life you're gonna lead this is what you're

9:14

gonna be the greatest quarterback of all time.

9:16

You know, everyone's gonna love you. You're gonna

9:18

win multiple Super Bowl titles.

9:20

And you know, it was just

9:22

like, it's one of those things that is

9:24

attractive to someone who's very young. Like, yeah, that

9:26

sounds good. And then you

9:28

pause for a second and you think, oh, wait, do

9:30

I actually want this? Is it wrong

9:32

for me to not want it? What kind

9:34

of, you know, who the hell am I to say I

9:37

don't want this life when so many other

9:39

people would Yeah. And it's it's actually more

9:41

nuanced than that. Yeah. If you're that

9:43

talented at something like, what practical

9:45

choice do you have. Right? But

9:48

in

9:48

Israel, always kind of made it clear

9:51

that in everyone kind

9:53

of went with this also that, you know, he

9:55

could have done anything. Right? He could have been an

9:57

architect or an engineer or

9:59

a politician, whatever it is he wanted to do

10:01

out of Stanford, but he shows

10:03

to deploy whatever gifts he

10:05

had to football. And

10:08

Andrew went with that. But I

10:11

was way more of a football

10:13

junkie than maybe he was ever

10:15

really able to admit and maybe

10:17

weren't able to admit until after

10:19

he had walked away from the

10:21

game. I I think he self identified as

10:23

a quarterback to a

10:25

degree that even

10:27

he couldn't quite comprehend even

10:29

after he had walked away. It's

10:32

inducing. He was much worse. Like, and I think the

10:34

question is, like, do you have to do it forever?

10:36

Right. I mean, you know, do you if you

10:38

even if you wanna do this career for a piece of

10:40

for a moment of your life, do you have to

10:42

do it forever because of that by virtue

10:44

of your talent. And clearly, that's where he deviated.

10:46

But I think he was every bit as

10:48

much of a football junkie as paint

10:50

manning and Tom Brady and Drew Breeze.

10:53

It was just sort of under this narrative

10:55

that he didn't have to

10:57

be. There's something

10:58

about that. I mean, so the way that your

11:01

story was promoted online. You have no

11:03

control over that. But there was this

11:05

sort of teasing, like, a

11:07

surprise last act. Like, Andrew Luck's next

11:09

move might surprise you. and obvious he's not

11:11

that old yet. So the thing that everybody

11:13

wants to think is, like, you know, that

11:15

he's going to replace Zach Wilson.

11:17

Like, just not all first. Like, we won't have to

11:19

think about Zach Wilson anymore, and now they'll be just

11:22

a, you know, Andrew luck there. Oh, that's the

11:24

dream. But if I may spoil

11:26

a few sure -- Yeah. -- because it's not a movie. The,

11:28

like, the last act is that he is

11:30

looking into being a high school

11:32

football coach. Mhmm. is

11:34

not the most surprising thing for a

11:36

former NFL player to do. And yet, it's

11:38

the nature of the story and, like, I know Drew and I

11:40

are both a lot of smoke up your ass. It really is an

11:42

excellent story. Thank you. No. Actually,

11:44

I hated it. I thought it was terrible. Who you

11:46

hated it? It's supposed to And I've been trying to convince

11:48

him. Yeah. He thinks that you should

11:50

write something of a similar length about Matt

11:52

Ryan. But

11:55

the idea of

11:57

former NFL guy becoming a high school

11:59

coach is the absolute

12:01

apex of dog bites man in some

12:03

ways, and yet by the time you get to

12:05

the end of it, the idea that there's still

12:07

something in football that

12:09

he wants because it seems

12:11

very clear that he's aware

12:14

in ways that he's seemingly still working through

12:16

that football stunted him as

12:19

a person in some ways. There's

12:21

something kind of touching even about

12:23

the idea that he would wanna go back. I

12:25

don't think

12:25

I've ever read of all the stories about, you

12:27

know, NFL guy getting into coaching. This is the first time

12:29

that I read it, and I was like, hell yeah, man. Good for

12:31

you. Yeah.

12:32

It's interesting. Right? The that

12:34

it's not surprising that a former football

12:37

player wants to be connected to the game. And

12:39

yet, it is kind of surprising for

12:41

him. because he, you

12:43

know, had fallen out of love with it,

12:45

made a decision, kind of wished that he

12:47

had made the decision six months earlier

12:49

and just walked away after the two thousand eighteen season,

12:52

which was frankly probably his best season

12:54

ever and reestablished him

12:57

as as one of the handful of

12:59

best quarterbacks in the game.

13:00

But

13:02

it's like from the moment he walked away, it

13:04

wasn't that he regretted the decision. because

13:06

he does have clarity about that.

13:08

But he has been wrestling with

13:10

what did that reveal about him.

13:14

And He's talked out loud to

13:16

his wife. He's talked out loud to friends. He's

13:18

talked out loud to me. He's talked out loud to a

13:20

therapist. And

13:21

he

13:23

doesn't have clear answers. And

13:25

the resolution that he's had to

13:27

have, the piece that he's had to make with that decision

13:31

is the Claire, as he told me, the clarity

13:33

that he doesn't need clarity.

13:35

Yeah. I I loved that quote. I thought that

13:37

was really that

13:39

was what put it to her beyond, you know, to her

13:42

standard athlete profiles. because I

13:44

think that that, you know, that's that's

13:46

an epiphany I don't I don't I

13:48

don't I don't wanna bring it back to me for, like,

13:50

one second. But, you know, it was a pithony I had after my accident

13:52

because I still don't know why it happened. Right? And

13:54

I I accepted that. and I still

13:56

accept it to this day. But

13:58

I don't think that is

13:59

something that most people

14:02

accept until late in life. Like

14:04

until and by late in life, I

14:06

mean, you know, they're thirties, they're

14:08

forties, perhaps beyond. It's not something you're

14:10

going to it's not something

14:12

you're gonna think about when

14:14

you're like twenty three and you're one of the

14:16

highest paid quarterbacks in the NFL. Right? You're

14:18

just not, you know. And I think

14:19

that's like a really good point. Drew

14:21

that. Like, it's basically the moment when you

14:23

realize that you are gonna be more acted upon

14:25

than acting in life regardless of

14:27

who you are. is when you start to sort

14:29

of understand that this is not unfolding in

14:31

a linear way, that not everything that happens is

14:34

going to happen for a reason that you're going

14:36

to know And in this

14:38

case, it's I mean, it's just all very

14:40

heightened in that, you know, because it's sort of a

14:42

drum thing when, like, I realized at the

14:44

age of thirty that I'm not going to be a

14:46

prodigy or whatever or, you know,

14:48

an NBA career is slipping away from

14:50

my grasp rapidly, like, as

14:52

we speak. And yet for look,

14:54

it's you know, he was able to

14:56

fucking brute force his way to that twenty eighteen

14:58

season. We're not entirely brute force. I mean, he did a

15:00

lot of of work on himself and everything.

15:02

Mhmm. But that is given

15:04

you know, and you described it in great detail, Seth,

15:06

like, Given how messed up he

15:08

was, the twenty eight

15:09

season seems like a miracle. I mean, he

15:11

didn't just have to work through injuries. He

15:14

had to pretty much completely

15:16

relearn the process of

15:18

thinking through throwing a football

15:20

again. Yeah. And to go back to what you were

15:22

saying about the

15:23

sort of moment of clarity that you don't

15:25

need clarity, it's an exceptional

15:29

amount of work that he put in to be able

15:31

to reach that.

15:32

Yes.

15:34

He couldn't like his wife said, you

15:37

know, when when he was injured and it was

15:39

two thousand seventeen, he was in a horrible

15:41

mental place. He was in pain. He was

15:43

angry. He was scared. He was

15:45

probably depressed. Whether it was

15:47

diagnosed or not officially. You know, he

15:49

he was doubt doubting

15:51

himself and feeling like a failure, and

15:53

he would not talk. Like,

15:57

his wife told me you

15:59

know, she was like, I had no place to

16:01

contribute because Andrew wouldn't communicate. He

16:03

wouldn't even level with his wife about how

16:05

much pain he was in. Even though they were

16:07

actually in Holland, trying

16:10

to fix his shoulder and

16:12

kind of fix his head. Can you say

16:13

the name of the place that he was at in Holland? because

16:16

once I realized how it sounds that loud,

16:18

it's like of funny little laugh lines. It

16:20

is. Well, it's it's

16:21

yeah. I mean, I can't my my dutch

16:24

isn't great, but it's is you would

16:26

say, does Andrew said it, you know, it's a feel

16:28

better. So it's like

16:30

a clinic called feel better.

16:32

But, you know, He had

16:33

to say something about maybe it's the world cup

16:35

in me. Every time I see a Dutch spelling of something,

16:37

I'm like, oh, these fucking permits. What did you

16:39

do? It's fucking extra a in there. Didn't you?

16:41

set up a bitch. But I I love it.

16:44

It's But, you know, he he

16:46

had to that

16:47

that trip to to Holland again

16:50

just kind of like opened his mind. I

16:52

mean, at one night he broke and and he

16:54

cried and he confessed

16:56

and he emoted in a

16:58

way that his wife

17:00

now, girlfriend at the time didn't think that he was

17:02

capable of, frankly. And she was ready to leave

17:04

him because he just wasn't communicating

17:06

with her. And

17:07

down you

17:09

know, that that meat headed football

17:11

culture of -- Yeah. -- ignoring

17:14

pain is not only something that he

17:16

had to of overcome and get to the other side of, but also

17:18

something he wrestles with now because he's proud

17:20

of that mentality. He not

17:22

only knows that it can be self

17:24

to trucked, but he's also, like, proud of the fact

17:27

that he was one of those guys that

17:29

that guys could count on. And that would if

17:31

he began a game, he was going

17:33

to finish no matter what.

17:36

Like

17:36

grappling with those

17:38

types of things, the way that we define

17:40

ourselves ourself

17:41

identities. The stories we tell ourselves

17:43

are a lot of things that he's really

17:45

tried to work through the past couple

17:47

years. Yeah. And

17:48

III like that you football

17:50

culture because it isn't just football culture,

17:52

although football culture is certainly guilty of it. But

17:54

it's, you know, it's a wider culture.

17:57

And particularly in the past, I

17:59

would say, decade or two sort of a reassessment

18:02

of how

18:03

how Americans,

18:04

particularly American men ought to

18:06

think about themselves. And like

18:09

and what and how they think about

18:11

themselves as societal forces

18:13

are acting upon them where, you know, society is saying, you

18:15

gotta be the fucking alpha dog. You gotta be

18:17

a fucking leader. You can't show weakness and all

18:19

that stuff. And it's destructive to

18:21

men. It's destructive to anybody. And

18:26

I think that that is a broader

18:29

you know, Andrew Luck story is sort of an exemplar of

18:31

that sort of greater

18:34

cultural dilemma that people have sort of in

18:36

their minds. And that was not

18:38

very eloquent

18:39

of my part. It's a good I think it

18:41

it makes sense. It's it's also interesting

18:43

to see it as a departure from that

18:45

too because I So I've read a couple of big

18:48

magazine features yesterday, not to brag.

18:50

I've read Jeremy Rollins' bit on

18:52

Hershel Walker. in

18:54

Esquire, which I think was also really interesting. And

18:56

has you know, it

18:58

deals with CTE

18:59

and sort of brain trauma talks Chris

19:01

Borland, he talks to a guy named Trey Battle, who was the University

19:03

of Georgia Dude, and he was a special teams guy

19:06

in the NFL for a little while.

19:08

And the way that so to what Drew

19:10

was saying, and I think this is where the

19:12

perspective

19:13

on luck was really interesting to me

19:16

is that those guys were, you know, as a defensive player and

19:18

a special teams guy. They have

19:20

that

19:20

same sort of commitment and the same sort of,

19:22

like, sort of macho idea

19:24

of sublimating your own

19:27

well-being to not just like

19:29

to, you know, the greater good of a

19:31

broader team, but to a

19:33

bunch of really dumb half ass

19:35

do as I say, not as I do

19:37

cultural belief type things.

19:39

All of those

19:40

guys though were foot soldiers

19:43

fundamentally. Like, that is the nature of of the

19:45

jobs that they had. What

19:47

was the man at the, you know, who's the

19:49

general? Like, he was at the front of

19:51

that column leading

19:52

stuff. And it seems

19:55

as if the idea of getting that

19:57

perspective is probably

19:58

harder, I guess, from that perspective because

20:01

of the fact that there's not

20:03

just

20:03

that you are in the same

20:05

sort of shitty macho

20:07

snow globe as everybody else. but

20:09

you're of it, that you're setting the

20:11

tone for it in a certain sense. And there's that

20:13

element of guilt to

20:16

the story that I found really sort of I mean, a

20:18

lot of guys that mess their bodies up playing football feel

20:20

bad about it as well they might.

20:23

In this case,

20:24

it seems like he's

20:25

trying to sort of put

20:27

a personality together after years

20:29

of having football stand in for

20:32

it. which

20:32

is a poignant thing, I think.

20:34

Well,

20:34

and he was also just proud of

20:36

it. He was proud of being that guy. He was

20:38

proud of playing through pain. He was

20:40

he loved being that guy. And

20:45

even though he knew

20:47

that, you know, it might not work out very

20:49

well in terms of his long term

20:51

health. And in any way, or

20:53

sanity for that matter. But

20:55

Those are the things that he had to kind

20:57

of try to find a way to work

21:00

through and

21:00

is still working through.

21:02

we ask about the pizza thingers? Yeah. I yeah.

21:05

To that end, I I wanted to talk about

21:07

the the ones who are a nice

21:09

juicy part. in the story where, you

21:11

know, in his quest to make sure he was

21:13

inhibiting the role of the underdog fully.

21:15

Look, what order for everybody else

21:17

sitting with him at a restaurant. And

21:19

I just wanna ask you, Seth, if someone

21:22

did that when you were at a

21:24

restaurant, how quickly would you murder them? if

21:26

they did. Did someone do that? Did Andrew Luck

21:28

order you the Ville Piccadis Oh, yeah. I

21:30

gotcha. They did you too. Yeah. You feel like

21:32

and and the reporter will have

21:34

Stick off the top. Well, you have

21:36

to remember that and, you

21:39

know, we we share him as a dear

21:41

friend that Wright Thompson just

21:43

does that. Oh my god. But the difference

21:45

so I've I've been I've been accustomed to that

21:47

in condition to it for almost a quarter of

21:49

a century now a friendship with Wright.

21:52

But the difference is that

21:54

write orders for you and lets you

21:56

order for yourself. So you're just getting more.

21:58

Oh, okay. So that's like that's like what my mom

21:59

would do. Like, if my mom is like,

22:02

oh, well, we'll get eight dishes for the table and

22:04

then you can get whatever. Like, that's and

22:06

also -- Yeah. -- alright. I assume, like, when

22:08

right orders for the table, is

22:10

because you're visiting him, like, in the

22:12

Bayou. Right? And he's, like, well, look, I'm

22:14

gonna I'm gonna order for you because you're not gonna order the

22:16

right, like, allegators. Where'd she

22:18

where'd she there? I think you were

22:20

there at that dinner at BLT

22:22

stake in Washington DC after Bill

22:25

Nack's funeral Yeah. Yeah. I was drunk. And and

22:27

so we go there, and BLT Steak is

22:29

my favorite steakhouse in DC, so I had picked

22:31

the restaurant. but Wright sits down and

22:33

he just starts ordering stuff. And our

22:35

friend Rick Mace from the Washington Post was

22:37

there. Rick is a vegetarian. And

22:41

I mean, you know, Rick

22:43

ended up paying probably a

22:45

hundred and eighty dollars that night for his

22:47

mac and cheese. I was gonna say for

22:49

cream spinach -- Yeah. --

22:52

potatoes, doffin, woz. I don't know what else you even

22:54

eat at a That's great. Yeah.

22:56

He was Rick was definitely there for

22:58

the company. Let's just put it

23:00

that way. Well, I got a few more questions for

23:02

you about Andrew Luck, South

23:04

Wickersham, but let's take a quick break and come

23:06

right

23:06

back. You

23:11

made

23:11

it here. Finally,

23:14

checked out of office to check into the

23:16

sweet views of That

23:18

place you've always wanted to go.

23:20

You know the one? It's nice.

23:22

Even the

23:23

kids like it. This place is so

23:25

cool. And they never like

23:27

it. Mom, can we go to the pool?

23:29

Look at that. Not even asking for

23:31

the WiFi. When you're

23:32

with Amex, it's not if it's going to happen, but

23:35

when American Express don't

23:37

live life without it.

23:40

And we're

23:43

back with

23:45

Seth Fisher with ESPN. A couple

23:47

more Andrew Luck questions before we ask

23:49

you about some other NFL things. First of all, you

23:53

noted

23:53

that in the piece, and it

23:55

came from both Andrew and his now

23:58

wife. that he was a brand new collective

24:00

husband and boyfriend while he

24:02

was going through all this. And Roth and

24:04

I, we couldn't help And

24:06

I'm sure we weren't the only ones who thought immediately of

24:08

Tom Brady's divorce when we read all that. Did

24:10

you think of

24:12

that?

24:14

hum

24:15

No. I I

24:16

do. I think you're lying, Seth.

24:19

No. No. Like, he was he

24:21

was probably But, yeah, maybe a little bit

24:23

lying. I I think that it was, like

24:24

like because it was

24:27

all in the framework. Like, something with

24:29

Brady and, you know, obviously, I've heard about

24:31

this and wrote a book about it. I mean,

24:33

it's something you saw coming.

24:36

Right? I mean, this has been in the

24:38

ether for a long time -- Yeah. -- the

24:40

cost of what he you

24:42

know, tries to do and

24:44

is trying to do. And

24:46

with Andrew and Nicole, it was

24:48

all within the context of him having

24:50

walked away. And so

24:53

I I didn't think of it the same way because I

24:55

guess I saw him as

24:57

though having made

24:58

a decision. And, you

25:00

know, when he in

25:03

in in two thousand nineteen, his

25:06

his ankle is bothering him. He's in training

25:08

camp and three

25:10

MRIs reveal, you know,

25:12

no nothing conclusive, and

25:14

he you

25:16

know, is

25:17

reverting back to that person, angry,

25:19

moody, scared, uncommunicative,

25:21

all

25:21

those things that he had worked so

25:24

hard to to not be anymore. The general

25:26

manager of the colds Chris Baur told me that the

25:28

scars of the past started showing up. And

25:31

in he had to talk with his

25:33

his best friend, Anthony Castanzo, again.

25:37

And Castanzo was

25:39

kinda like, he could tell that Andrew

25:41

was defining himself as something other than

25:43

a quarterback and that for

25:45

him to continue playing, it would have had

25:47

to be Andrew's world where everyone catered

25:49

to it. Now Nicole

25:51

was willing to cater to Andrew's world

25:53

as a supportive partner if that's what he

25:55

wants because they had reached a different evolution of

25:58

their relationship where at least they're communicating

26:00

about what it is that he's gonna do,

26:02

and she understands, you

26:04

know, what it is and they they support

26:06

each other. but

26:08

it was Andrew who didn't wanna do it. It was him who

26:10

didn't want the world revolving around

26:13

him. in And

26:15

that's one of the main reasons why he walked

26:17

away is he didn't wanna be that person anymore.

26:19

And maybe now at

26:21

age thirty three, he

26:24

could see a way where

26:26

he could be that great player who was

26:28

on track to the hall fame and

26:30

be the person that he wanted to be at

26:32

home and whatnot. but at time it felt like

26:34

a binary decision and it really

26:37

wasn't, you know, it was a hard decision, but it

26:39

was also a very clear one for

26:41

him. I guess

26:41

Brady in that sense stands in as, like, the example of

26:43

what could happen if you just simply refuse to

26:46

make that decision over the course of a decade.

26:48

Yeah. The sort of the simplistic thing

26:50

I I thought was that

26:53

Brady made the decision to put football

26:55

first instead of his family and luck

26:57

didn't. And that's sort of the reductive way

26:59

of thinking about it. but I know it's

27:01

more complicated than that. Yeah.

27:04

They're different types of guys. Oh, I guess. Also,

27:06

one reason Chuck decided to talk to you,

27:08

Seth, was that because like

27:11

you. He's an extreme skier. Now

27:13

Seth, I did not know that about you.

27:15

Exactly how extreme of a skier are

27:17

you. Are we talking you know, like, how extremely Like,

27:19

do you jump out of helicopters with the

27:21

skis bolted to your boots, like, and

27:23

go down? like fucking face and shit.

27:25

No. I'm helicopter. I'm Helly's key, but you don't jump at

27:27

a helicopter with your skis on. I mean, you'd probably

27:29

break your ankle. Oh, so it sounds like an old juicy

27:32

fruit ad where they did that? Okay. No.

27:34

It's it's more that the

27:36

helicopter lowers itself.

27:38

And you kind of duck and jump

27:41

out like you would. Like, when you see those old

27:43

Vietnam movies and people getting out of hell, you

27:45

know? It's not that

27:47

it's not that

27:48

elegant. You know, but you kinda like roll

27:51

almost out of the helicopter onto the

27:53

snow and then you stay ducked down and you your

27:55

skis are are attached to the bottom of the helicopter

27:57

and you pull them out. and then the helicopter takes off.

27:59

You know what? I would

28:00

be do you have your ski boots on? That's

28:02

more of a big red ad than a juicy fruit. What do you

28:04

want me to raise my foot like Aaron

28:06

Rogers, all of a sudden, you wanna see if my No. No.

28:08

No. I'm not asking if you have a ski boots on

28:10

right now. I can have one of those, like, enough

28:12

one of those one of those viral moments

28:14

of you seeing my toes? No.

28:17

No. When you drop out the show feet,

28:19

all the guests show feet. Yeah.

28:21

Yes. I would just ask you if

28:23

you were wearing ski boots when you jumped out of the helicopter

28:25

because that's like a hard lane. Yeah. Like it would

28:27

be. You do, but you don't you kinda roll out.

28:29

I mean, you don't it's it's just like

28:31

I said, for for whatever

28:33

athletic ability it takes to get

28:35

down those mountains that you helicopter

28:38

up to getting out of the helicopter

28:40

is just not

28:42

exemplar of that ability at

28:44

all. And in fact, it's just it's very clunky

28:46

and in all again. You just kind of roll out

28:48

into the snow. Like -- That seems like

28:50

-- Sam Arnold storing a touchdown. basically.

28:53

Yeah. Just get out, roll around on your tummy for a

28:55

little while, and then it's time to do something extreme.

28:58

Exactly. Alright. Let's ask you

29:00

important Patriot's questions. because -- Okay.

29:02

-- a book about them, they are legitimately, I would

29:04

say, dysfunctional right now, especially with

29:06

Napatricia still in charge of, like,

29:09

truly listless offense. So let's explain my team. It's

29:11

really bad offense. And

29:14

just

29:15

yesterday, Bellatrix about and he was

29:17

like, well, at this point, you know, why

29:20

don't really see the need to change anything? Almost

29:22

as if he's sort of, like, punting on the

29:24

season, you consider this season an anomaly

29:26

for Bellatick, Seth, or do you feel like

29:28

the old man is starting to check out? You

29:32

know,

29:32

I think that it's he's

29:34

wanted to be involved in offense for a long

29:36

time. And when Josh McDaniel was there, he

29:38

was so good that I think

29:40

that he had earned the right to

29:43

to call the offense as he wanted.

29:46

And the

29:47

offense as

29:48

it is right now is a

29:50

balance check offense. they're doing things that

29:52

he wanted to do. Matt

29:55

Patricia obviously pitches in and

29:57

he's involved, and he's the one who

29:59

calls the plays. But, like,

30:01

they determine what plays that are gonna call

30:04

in any given situation over the course

30:06

of the week. And in any moment,

30:08

Bellatuck can just announce

30:11

whatever whatever play he wants

30:13

Matt Patricia to call. So

30:15

it's a it's it's reflective of

30:18

Bella Check. And

30:19

it's

30:20

frankly, it's not that different from

30:23

how he's always been. When he

30:25

was in Cleveland,

30:27

I'll say this with a caveat. Nobody

30:30

remembers those early nineties

30:32

Cleveland Browns offenses. know,

30:35

setting the world on fire. So it's like, I'm not

30:37

necessarily saying that, like, he's, you know,

30:39

Mike Marks or Joe Gibbs or Mike Shanahan

30:41

when it comes to these things. But he was Cleveland

30:43

one year, he had fifteen coaches on the

30:45

staff and no offensive coordinator. And

30:47

his quotes from that time

30:49

about explaining what they were doing on offense

30:51

are almost exactly as

30:53

how he does explains it now. I

30:55

mean, one of the things that

30:57

that the Patriots coaches have talked about

30:59

over the years about just how

31:01

exhausting it can be to work there and in

31:03

some ways enriching. is that

31:05

when they game plan, often all of the coaches

31:08

are in the room. Everybody's pitching

31:10

in on offensive strategy. they

31:12

have ideas. And so it can mean that you're locked in that

31:14

room for a long, long, long time before you

31:16

even begin your job. So But that's just

31:18

kind of how he operates. And you can

31:21

argue that It's

31:22

both a

31:23

democracy and a dictatorship, but, like, that's just

31:25

kind of how he is. I

31:28

I was

31:29

that's an interesting thing.

31:31

The only insight I had to

31:33

contribute there is that I know it it smells crazy

31:36

in there. Sorry.

31:38

Yeah. Bill would take off yeah. Bill would take off

31:40

his shoes and put his socks, you know, his stinky

31:42

feet up on the table and the coach is like,

31:44

oh my god. Doing it. Yeah. Exactly. Here we

31:46

are back to feet. You and

31:48

two of your colleagues at ESPN did

31:50

a lot

31:51

of the, you know,

31:53

sort of shoe of the reporting that led

31:55

to Dan Schneider exploring the sale of

31:57

the commanders. And so since we have you

31:59

on the podcast, we want to ask you

32:02

what the status of that story

32:04

is right now. Do you feel

32:06

like it's basically, as

32:08

it was do you expect Schneider to

32:10

sell the team? By March, do you feel like

32:12

anything has changed with that situation? since

32:15

since you guys first reported and since he

32:17

announced that they was exploring at

32:19

least a partial sale of the team.

32:21

Yeah. Don

32:21

Don Donato, you know, your fellow Vikings

32:24

fan. Oh, he's so so

32:26

annoying about the Vikings. So Him and

32:28

Florio are annoying about the Well,

32:30

I know the only viking fans I know are you, Don,

32:32

and my cousin who's who's a

32:34

comedian actually, Nick Swartzin. He's your

32:37

cousin. Yeah.

32:38

Oh, my god. Yeah. Our family is from

32:41

Minnesota, not me. We're staying with our family

32:43

broadly. And every so I always,

32:45

like, look on Twitter to see what you guys are saying

32:47

about the Viking. But

32:49

I keep I

32:49

I I'm floored that your Nick Schwartzman's

32:52

cousin. I think that's Yeah. That's crazy. I feel

32:54

like I was murdered. Yeah. Oh,

32:57

my goodness. That's great. He he has

32:59

some funny jokes about our grandmother. I'll just

33:03

but Yeah.

33:04

Dawn Van Adden and Tishatompa, I did that

33:06

story and, you know, proud of it and and, you

33:08

know, really felt like we were trying to get into, like,

33:10

just answer the question of, he survived. And I think

33:13

that it inspired Jim Mercier to go back to the

33:15

cults to speak

33:16

out about about Schneider. And I

33:19

think that

33:20

you know,

33:21

once one guy does that, the

33:23

dominoes start to fall. I I think that

33:25

it how I would explain is I

33:28

think that owners and the league

33:30

office are probably cautiously

33:32

optimistic that he will

33:34

sell, that he'll get an offer, that

33:36

he'll accept. The process of

33:38

removing him is gonna be incredibly

33:40

ugly and long. But

33:42

ah

33:44

right it's kind of in Snyder's

33:46

hands. I mean, how ugly he wants it

33:48

to get. And if he doesn't get

33:50

an offer that he feels like

33:52

taking, I

33:54

think that we all know that he would love to

33:57

spite the league and then's fellow owners by

33:59

just not

33:59

selling. I don't know. Is there a way that

34:02

he gets an offer that he wants

34:04

and it's still ugly? Or is it just sort of thing that he's

34:06

putting a price TBD

34:08

on either making an

34:10

exit that makes him even richer or

34:14

continuing to shove it up every much Or or is he doing a better way?

34:16

Or or, like, I I hesitate to give

34:18

him, like, credit for playing three-dimensional chess, but or

34:20

he's is he just trying to make

34:23

it clear that he wants the biggest offer, and then

34:25

he can say, well, I didn't get what I wanted. Here

34:27

I am. You guys are stuck with me.

34:30

I don't know. Well, good

34:32

question. I think that And you

34:34

and you would be you would be the one

34:36

to correct me on this. But it seems to me

34:38

that it would be inevitable that he would

34:40

get a godfather off. So the even

34:42

if it if it's not Bezos, somebody else because

34:44

these franchises are just

34:46

that lucrative and valuable. I I

34:48

just particularly the commanders because

34:50

if someone else who is not danced at her

34:52

own the commanders, I think they got stadium instantly. So

34:55

I feel like it it's inevitable that

34:57

someone will offer him 789 billion

34:59

dollars for it. Well, the interesting thing is

35:01

that it's it's not just

35:04

okay. Yes.

35:05

I think that that's true. I also think

35:08

that the actual people who can do

35:10

this aren't as There's not as many as

35:12

you think. Like, the

35:13

league knows, they've already called the list. You

35:15

know, they keep an active list of people who they

35:17

think could be potential owners so that when these

35:20

things happen, the process can happen quickly as possible. not like

35:22

it's open mic night among

35:24

billionaires. And

35:26

you know, let's let's take a step back for a

35:28

second. a

35:31

lot

35:31

of billionaires don't get that way by getting suckered

35:33

or by overpaying for assets. And

35:36

while one could

35:36

argue that NFL teams are fantastic, investments.

35:40

Would Jeff Bezos pay

35:42

a lot for Washington

35:44

knowing that Dan basically

35:47

has to sell and

35:50

then shell out even more money

35:52

for a stadium. Like,

35:54

that

35:54

it gets you what like, let's

35:57

they could get you close to ten

35:59

billion

35:59

dollars in an acquisition if he used

36:02

to, like, to try to do that. And, like,

36:04

a lot of these guys don't wanna look at the

36:06

guy don't wanna be the guy who

36:08

overpaid for something that they didn't have

36:10

to. Right. So

36:10

it's like a pride thing. Like, ugh. Yeah. Like, I

36:12

get a deal. I get a good deal. Okay.

36:15

Like, k. Just

36:15

kind of the dark element of it. It's

36:17

the I mean, this is, you know, you have to

36:19

make bigger points about inequality or whatever. The

36:22

idea that you could

36:24

afford it but it's

36:24

entirely a reputation thing. Like, if you could cut a

36:26

check for eight billion dollars without feeling

36:28

it. But you're not doing it

36:30

because you think you might look

36:33

like an asshole if you did is a real

36:35

good case for, like, a ninety

36:37

one percent top marginal tax

36:39

rate IMO. But I

36:41

feel like the ghost of I feel like the ghost of

36:43

Patrick Ruby's Twitter feed is just invaded.

36:46

Yeah. It's always scrolling. Well,

36:48

also, someone

36:50

did mention and I can't remember if it was you guys or or someone else, but they

36:52

did mention the fact that the

36:54

Seahawks will go on sale soon, and that's a much

36:56

more logical place for Bezos to go

36:58

because that's Amazon's headquarter,

37:00

of course. And they have a stadium. And

37:02

like and they're and they're good. So it's

37:04

like I so that was the thing that I felt.

37:06

And and,

37:07

you know, that team was just you know, the way that Paul Allen

37:09

and their family kind of reigned that team

37:11

is arguably maybe the

37:14

healthier way where it was just kind of like a prized jewel that he could own and it

37:16

was another toy and -- Yeah. -- you know,

37:18

he never he never came to

37:20

NFL meetings. You know, he do he's like, I'm

37:22

not gonna sit

37:24

around with these guys and, like, talk about why after a hundred

37:26

years of professional football, nobody knows what it

37:29

catches. Like, I'm going to I'm

37:31

gonna go do my thing and I'll show up for

37:34

games, but I feel like it. But other than

37:36

that, you know, it's let them

37:38

run the team. I mean, it was a

37:40

very healthy relationship he

37:42

had, whereas, like, obviously, like, Dan

37:44

Snyder defines himself as the owner

37:46

of that team.

37:47

Why did the Titans just fire

37:49

their GM Seth? I

37:50

don't know. It actually happened when I was

37:53

on a podcast yesterday,

37:54

and I have no idea,

37:56

you know, what happened It's

37:59

very odd to fire AGM midway through

37:59

the season. You don't really see that happening too often.

38:02

Yeah. Usually, they do it, like, after the draft, they're like,

38:04

well, we'll let him ruin

38:06

one more and then we're gonna find

38:08

out. I love that tradition. That's so

38:10

good. That's totally the way to

38:12

go. Seth Wickersham, you have to take

38:14

off early, so we're gonna let you go before we get

38:16

to the stupid stuff. but we are gonna

38:18

send you away by remembering a guy in

38:20

the guy of the week is

38:22

Arnez Battle. You remember

38:24

him, Seth? Yes. Okay. Yeah.

38:26

Great. We did it. We did it. Mission accomplished.

38:28

Thank you, fantastic. Thank you, Seth, for coming

38:32

on. Great to see you guys as always. Thank you. Thanks. Alright. Take

38:34

care. Well, that was very nice, Rolf. I you

38:36

know what? I I was gonna have the guy the week

38:39

be Andre Rosen. but you mentioned Trey Battle and

38:41

my brain went instantly to Arnez battle who was a

38:43

quarterback at Notre Dame before

38:46

shifting over to a

38:48

wide out and played for the diners for a cup of coffee. just

38:50

remember being like Arne's battle. That's definitely a

38:52

guy. I liked Arne's battle. I liked him as

38:54

a college quarterback. And I think he

38:58

I know the forty nine hours of the team I associate him with too. Did he

39:00

really only have, like, a few seasons? I thought he was,

39:02

like, borderline fantasy onable. Oh,

39:05

I'm sure he had, like, a few hundred yard

39:07

games. Well, let's let's do the thing because

39:09

Seth isn't here, so we're not on you

39:12

know, we're not Whatever. We

39:15

can just act like idiots. Is that

39:17

what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. That's that's it. Alright. Let's

39:19

do it. Okay. He never had a thousand

39:21

yard season. His best season two thousand and

39:23

six. He was had six hundred a six yards and three touchdowns. He played

39:25

in the league for,

39:27

I am counting.

39:30

in real time. He played for nine years in the league. He had seven

39:32

years of San Francisco. Two years of the Steelers.

39:34

He never caught a ball with the Steelers, but that's

39:37

a pretty nice little run. full

39:40

pension. Congratulations to Arnez back. Yeah.

39:42

That's right. Fun fact time. Dennis

39:44

writes in. Seems like a lot of people brag

39:46

lament that I did a lot of drugs back

39:48

in the day. What's the

39:50

criteria for being able to say

39:52

that? I say that weed alone doesn't count, but

39:54

heroin alone does. Otherwise, you need

39:56

at least two drugs in addition

39:58

to weed. Roth, how much how many drugs do you have to do to

39:59

say that you did a lot drugs

40:02

back in the Like, probably enough

40:04

that you would never talk about

40:06

how many drugs you

40:08

did. Like, I feel like this is one of those

40:10

things where it's something that you

40:12

say when you are our

40:14

age and basically, the only

40:16

thing you can eat is like potatoes because

40:18

everything else upsets you a tummy and you're trying

40:20

to remember the other guy

40:22

that you used to be the people I

40:24

know that are actually did do a lot of

40:26

heroin. Like, they'll talk about it

40:28

in, like, an

40:29

anonymous setting. It's not the sort of thing

40:32

where they're eager to relive the time that they

40:34

fell asleep in a running car or

40:36

something like that. You know? I do

40:38

think you can't just say

40:39

I used to smoke a

40:41

lot of pot because So so

40:43

good, so we stack. Who's gonna gonna impress? I used to drink a lot

40:46

of tea. Yeah. And it was very

40:48

it was herbal. And boy, III

40:52

had real taste for the stuff. And I'll see if this is an interesting

40:54

twist. And I don't know if I'm just cutting

40:56

you a deal because you are

40:58

my friend. But I think

41:00

that your late career

41:02

pivot to having a

41:04

sort of a gentle jolliness

41:07

habit if a green hue. I don't know. Am I allowed

41:09

to talk about this? Is your mom listened to this? No. Well, I don't

41:11

listen to the podcast. You can talk to the the

41:13

fact that you now have, like,

41:15

a pot chair in your home where you sit and

41:17

listen to shout at the devil after everyone goes

41:20

today. To me, that's how you

41:22

do it. Like, that is how a drug habit should That's right.

41:24

That's right. I think if you say a lot I

41:26

did a lot of drugs back in the day,

41:28

you have to have been an addict.

41:32

of some hard drug. And it had to have ruined your life in some way.

41:34

Like, if not if, like, temporarily.

41:36

Like, yeah, do have, like, ODEED or, like,

41:39

you had to have, like, you

41:41

had to have gotten into a car crash and gone to

41:44

jail. Like, there has to have there had to have been some

41:46

ugly, really ugly episode in there.

41:48

Even in that case though, I mean, I

41:50

guess it's just the sort of the the of the question me

41:52

suggests that someone is saying

41:54

that for not

41:55

clout, but

41:56

they're just sort of trying to

41:59

explain why they are the way they are. And, like, if

41:59

that shit happened to you because

42:02

like, I definitely lost some temp

42:03

jobs because I drank

42:06

too much. but that's not the sort

42:08

of thing that I would say to show someone what a badass person

42:10

I am to hang out with. Like, that's

42:12

just an embarrassing fact. about

42:15

my twenty Well, you know Yeah. I mean, I think

42:18

I think I'm thinking of the tone of

42:20

the phrasing as

42:20

a bit more

42:22

tinge of regret like

42:24

Okay. Yeah. Like a and not the sort of thing you're saying it at a

42:26

party so that people know that you're not

42:28

always the sort of person that attends a child's

42:31

person. Yeah. Yeah. No. Not

42:33

like not like street cred like I think about like a

42:35

sore like a tinge of by the way, I'm sorry

42:38

you lost some temp jobs because of drinking. That's

42:40

bad. That's that's fine. They were

42:42

temp jobs. And also, you never

42:44

can't tell why you're gonna lose them. The dumbest

42:46

one I had, I bird shit down my neck

42:48

on the way to the interview. I got it anyway.

42:50

Damn. And then I lost it after

42:53

one day. because you were drinking or because of

42:55

the bird? No. I had just lost it

42:57

for a different reason. Oh, like, mostly, I think I

42:59

lost it because I maybe

43:01

I was late That sounds like -- Oh. -- but I think mostly it

43:03

was just kind of like a bad. I wasn't mad to

43:05

have lost it. I was just mad about the

43:08

fact that I would stress that

43:10

about a job interview. Like,

43:12

literally a pigeon shot down the back of

43:14

my shirt and I tried to

43:16

clean it. before the interview. I still did well enough at the interview to get it

43:18

and then it didn't even amount to anything. I wound

43:20

up making sixty dollars off that whole

43:22

experience. I remember I was

43:24

a copywriter and

43:26

I was trying to get a job you know, writing ads and

43:28

you have a portfolio of fake ads,

43:31

you spec ads that you you

43:33

showed the creative director so he get a job. And I was

43:35

in an interview and

43:38

that he's looking through my portfolio

43:41

and he points at a typo in one of the

43:43

body copies. And then he was like, he's like, what's

43:45

this typo all about? And,

43:48

like, I was so floored. I

43:50

was like, Oh. Oh, my

43:52

partner laid it out. Like, I threw her under

43:54

the bus like instantly.

43:56

Like, she was not applying for the for the art

43:58

director job at that. Like, I was like, oh,

44:00

well, I had

44:02

no control over that. It was my

44:04

portfolio. I didn't think it seems like there's only a

44:06

girl who would have done that. I didn't get the job. I know I

44:08

am the model of integrity. Jay writes in. This

44:10

one's a little bit long, but worth

44:12

it. Are the most obnoxious college football

44:14

fans the ones who didn't actually

44:16

attend the school? As always

44:18

be in my experience, living in

44:20

an area infested with clemson fans, I have

44:22

an aunts and uncles non alumni tiger fans

44:25

who attend the Clemson South Carolina game every

44:27

year, but they will only stop to visit Columbia of re their Columbia

44:29

relatives if Clemson wins. They're apparently just

44:31

as thin skin to

44:34

dabble himself. However, a Clemson alum just started at my

44:36

job and he's unbearable.

44:38

He has a Proud Boy haircut, wears

44:40

a t shirt with a thick gold chain,

44:43

drives a massive truck, listens to Joe Rogen,

44:45

brags about himself without a shred of

44:47

self awareness, brings up Nancy Pelosi out of

44:49

the blue during Zoom calls, and

44:51

make some comfortable references to low income, high

44:54

crime people. And of course, he's beyond

44:56

smug when it comes to his school. Have I

44:58

been wrong all these years? alumni

45:00

even worse than local bandwagoners?

45:02

That is a great

45:04

question. I love the

45:06

idea of high crime people

45:09

as like a an attribute. Like, this is I'm

45:11

a person of crime. That's how

45:13

I identify myself. It seems to me

45:15

like the problem here might

45:17

be fucking Clemsen. that, like, that could

45:19

actually be the issue with how people

45:21

are acting here because the through line

45:23

for all of this is

45:25

that everyone involved

45:28

that is wearing that purple tiger paw hat.

45:30

Sounds

45:30

like a total fucking dickhead.

45:33

Yeah. III

45:35

don't don't quite know how to answer it because I have heard from people who

45:37

live in SEC country. I've heard some really

45:40

awful things about Georgia

45:42

fans, about all birthday, about

45:44

Bamba fans, course. I've heard that

45:46

Georgia fans are the are the worst of

45:48

the lot somehow, which is a really It's like a

45:50

major upset, although maybe not as much

45:52

now that they are the dominant force in college

45:54

football. But I think that, you know, you're

45:56

actually no Georgia fans and so there's a I mean, I

45:58

have some friends that are bound. This will

46:00

each count But

46:02

I think Yeah. I mean, that's not the

46:04

the median Georgia bulldogs fan.

46:06

It's wearing, like, a nice, nappy blazer no matter

46:08

how warm the weather is. Yeah. No. Yeah.

46:11

I would saves. But I I do think there's something to that

46:13

because it's different. Nobody in I mean, I

46:15

do. I didn't go to Rutgers, but I cheer

46:17

for Rutgers. No one No one

46:19

in New Jersey is trying to sort of gather

46:22

the appropriated prestige

46:24

of Rutgers football around them to

46:26

seem bigger at parties. So the

46:29

idea of

46:30

being someone that just wears

46:32

a

46:32

windbreaker and calls into Paul Feinbaum

46:34

and gets upset about shit, and

46:37

you've got no investment in it other than what

46:39

you chose. Is

46:42

in

46:42

some ways, like, honorable

46:43

to me in how psychotic it is,

46:46

but also I could imagine those people

46:48

being, like, desperately

46:50

difficult to be around. I think I I

46:52

still think it's the people who didn't attend the

46:54

school. Like, if if you're if you're

46:56

calling into Fine BOM as an Auburn fan, but

46:58

you didn't go

46:59

to Auburn. And there's a

47:01

lot of those people That

47:03

that's a that's a tough life that you've chosen for

47:05

yourself. And then also, that's especially true,

47:07

like, in the big ten. Like, if there are

47:09

people who are big Ohio state fans, they didn't go

47:11

to Ohio State. And it's hard to not go to Ohio

47:14

State because a million people go to

47:16

Ohio State every year.

47:18

You know, it's you know what?

47:21

It's not that you're it's not you're

47:23

more necessarily more annoying than an

47:25

alumni, but you definitely haven't

47:27

earned the right to be annoying as much as they

47:29

have. Ohio State's an interesting test case there too

47:32

because I

47:34

think that you

47:35

know, regardless of what you think of the

47:37

football program, basketball program, whatever. I mean, it's

47:39

a big school. It's got a great modern dance

47:41

program too, my wife. tells no shit. No.

47:43

There's lot. accounts. Tell Calin. That said, when I

47:46

see somebody wearing a ton of

47:48

Ohio State

47:50

gear, I make assumptions about them based on that. And it's not anything to do with

47:52

whether or not they got a modern dance degree there

47:54

or not. It's because of how Ohio State

47:57

fans fucking act.

47:59

And there are there's a level that

48:02

you can get as

48:04

a

48:04

where program

48:06

where a normal civilian encountering somebody

48:08

dipped in that gear in their regular

48:10

life will quite justifiably

48:12

make some assumptions

48:15

about not making eye contact or avoiding Yeah.

48:18

You voted for George. reach that level. It

48:20

sort of doesn't matter whether you went there

48:22

or not. Yeah. III agree. Yeah. I I think we're on

48:24

the same wavelength. But you're the most

48:26

unfair version of that that I can

48:28

think of is do remember

48:30

this is a very dark remembering

48:33

some guys. Fred Phelps of

48:35

the Westbrook. Fuck you. Yeah. Yes.

48:37

Of course. So Disgusting

48:39

guy showed up

48:42

at the funerals of gay people killed

48:44

and hate crimes with anti gay signs along

48:46

with his shitty church, which was just

48:48

entirely his family, except for the

48:51

people who left Adrian Chen wrote a great

48:53

feature about the people that got out. but

48:55

he would always wear this like

48:57

Apex one University of Kansas,

49:00

Parker that I

49:01

feel like did more damage to the University of Kansas

49:03

or I guess it's it's at

49:05

Kansas University. Right? But did more damage

49:07

to Kansas' brand than

49:10

anything that I could

49:12

possibly imagine. Like, including their football program. Yeah. It was just the

49:14

most disastrous thing that you could

49:16

have. Lord Lord knows the

49:18

face of homophobia in

49:20

the country. showing up every day

49:22

looking like the fucking defensive coordinator for Yeah. because Lord knows

49:24

Charlie Weiss did his best to sell the reputation.

49:28

Seriously. Wow. Brandon

49:30

Nixon, Chantel Holder, our producer's door. Richie is

49:32

our executive producer, our theme songs by

49:34

Kirk Hamilton. You can listen to ad free episodes

49:36

of the distraction only on such a

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premium, and Thanks to Roth and me. You have Fremont to Stitcher

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Premium or No. Just go to

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freemium dot com. And use the

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code distract. Don't forget the rate

49:48

review and subscribe wherever it's still listening. Because

49:50

subscribe to the vectu dot com too while you're at.

49:52

And then Seth Wickersham, who's not with

49:54

us at the moment, but his book now

49:56

available. Paperback again is a Christmas

49:58

gift and wouldn't that be

49:59

lovely. We will see you

50:02

guys next

50:04

week. Goodbye. Bye.

50:15

What's the place you've

50:17

always wanted to try? While

50:19

you're there, sharing plates with

50:21

Just one bite. wrong

50:22

second thought. Maybe not sharing. It's that good. When you're

50:24

with Amex, it's not if it's going

50:26

to happen, but when? American Express.

50:28

Don't live life without it.