0:00

Your

0:00

favorite band's about to play a sold out

0:02

show and you definitely got tickets

0:05

and drinks. Now, hurry and make it back to

0:07

your spot. As this person and

0:09

that person about twenty more,

0:11

watch out for feet. Hey. Just

0:14

keep going. I'm a little further.

0:16

Oh, there's your friend. Over here.

0:18

Right where you wanna be coasting up to see

0:20

the set list. And they're definitely playing

0:22

your song. When you're with Amex,

0:25

it's not if it's going to happen. But when?

0:27

American Express, don't live life without

0:29

it. We're

0:33

back. We're back. Distraction.

0:35

I'm drunk. That's wrong. There you go.

0:37

I'm good, man. How are you? I am excellent.

0:39

I'm even more excellent because I know that

0:42

yesterday's very special. It's

0:44

Jamel Hill, all the shit. You took

0:46

my writer for the Atlantic author of the new

0:48

memoir up hill out right now. Jamel

0:50

Hill, are you looking to buy? Yeah.

0:52

Thank you. I appreciate you guys having

0:54

me on. It's a pleasure. No.

0:55

That's right. How much

0:57

we're gonna talk about you in your book

1:00

first. How much do you want to

1:02

talk about you? Or are you so

1:04

sick to death of yourself? You cannot bear

1:06

it a second long? Or Yeah. If we could do

1:08

NFC North chat. Yeah. That's

1:10

more fun. A hundred percent. When you talk about the

1:12

album coming to short lines, if you want.

1:15

Well, I appreciate show you

1:17

all being sensitive to that. But the

1:19

good news is that we're recording this where

1:21

I'm not in the thick of my book

1:23

tour. So I actually have had a

1:25

few weeks of a break of talking about myself.

1:27

So Oh. So I'm

1:29

I'm replenished. So it's it's fine

1:31

if we wanna talk about me because

1:34

I can't say I wanna discuss the NFC North

1:36

either, but

1:36

No. It's fine. Yeah.

1:37

I mean, and just so I mean, just, you

1:40

know, I'm not alliance, man. III

1:42

do want them to do well because I'm from Detroit.

1:45

And my husband is a huge

1:47

lions fan. So right now, this

1:49

is his euphoria. Like, he is he

1:52

has he bought into the coulee before

1:54

this season started. All lines

1:56

fans do. Every year, they have Super Bowl expectations

1:58

regardless of

1:59

what the fifty or fifty five plus

2:02

year history has said. So right

2:04

now, like, he's in

2:05

such a great place. I was like, oh, you finally

2:07

know what it's like, to feel like your team is

2:09

not a total embarrassment. So I'm very

2:12

happy for him. Out

2:13

of the world. At six and

2:15

seven. That's right. To like,

2:17

just not to, you know, make you have to

2:19

go back to that space. Did you have

2:21

to, like, do the real heavy, like, car wash

2:23

junket experience for the book? Oh,

2:25

you're kinda telling the same story about your

2:28

youth like three or four times a day.

2:29

Yeah. And it was a different experience because

2:32

let's see the first week the book came out

2:35

did three cities that week. And

2:38

total, it was like a seven or eight city

2:40

tour just in this initial part, and then I'll probably

2:42

go back out once it's been released in

2:44

paper back. But, yeah, it is a little

2:46

bit different than when I've promoted other

2:48

things that I've started. Like, promoting shows

2:51

that I'm a part of is totally different. They asked you about

2:53

the show. Would you expect, you

2:55

know, your cohost, those kind of things?

2:57

So it's a little different. It's like you're talking

2:59

about yourself, but not really but

3:02

with a memoir and especially

3:04

one that is written as personally as mine

3:07

is then the question line of questions

3:09

are a little different And in some cases,

3:11

early on, they were a little jarring because

3:13

I'm not used to talking that intimately about

3:16

myself before a wider audience.

3:18

So when you get a question, even though I

3:20

understood why I got the question because it's in

3:22

the book, when you get a question of, what was it

3:24

like when your mother showed you crack? I was like, oh,

3:26

this is not really the question. And

3:28

I'm used to kick. So

3:30

I was like, you know, I just have to be like, oh,

3:32

that was jarring,

3:33

but I understood why they asked it because

3:35

it is an experience I write about in the book.

3:37

So You thought they would ask you about the NFC

3:39

North and the -- Yeah. -- kids? I was fooled.

3:41

I was thinking like, oh, so now we're

3:43

discussing crack. And alright.

3:45

Got it. You know what? To that

3:48

end, let's ask you, what was more

3:50

difficult for you? The actual writing

3:52

of the book because running a book is a pain in

3:54

the ass because it's a book. Or summoning

3:56

the will to put into the book,

3:58

what you put into it because it's

3:59

very personal gets into the the

4:02

details. No. Just if you're like, your mother's like,

4:04

your grandmother's like, and

4:05

everything that happened to them and to

4:07

you, How hard was that to

4:09

make yourself vulnerable on the page? So

4:12

the vulnerability part wasn't as difficult.

4:15

The writing aspect, as you

4:17

point out, it

4:18

is kind of difficult because I'm not used

4:20

to writing based off a book deadline.

4:23

You know, to some degree, a large degree,

4:25

a journalist, especially those who

4:27

have been used to working for traditional publications.

4:28

They we

4:31

are used to writing based off, like, a

4:33

very near deadline. Like, okay. You

4:35

might have a week to do this. Couple

4:37

days to turn this column around so that

4:39

it's usually more immediate. It's a deadline you

4:41

can see tangibly. Yeah. Yeah.

4:43

Much different than when a book publishes. Like,

4:46

oh, you're in February and they say, hey,

4:48

can you have us something by the end of

4:50

June? And you're like, what? Like,

4:52

the it just the time

4:54

doesn't even feel real. And what

4:57

so the actual process of writing

4:59

was

4:59

difficult because I'm used to writing

5:01

in

5:01

more of traditional media space and what I had

5:03

to eventually do and

5:06

was I had to put myself on a schedule

5:08

and it wasn't advice it

5:10

was advice that was given to me by a very prolific

5:12

author, Walter Mosley, he told me that

5:14

no matter where he is in the world,

5:17

he rides for at least two hours a day

5:19

same time because that's

5:21

what allows him to creatively,

5:24

not just flourish, but he had to approach

5:26

writing as a discipline. The book forced

5:28

me to approach it that way, and I'd never

5:30

done that in my career. I remember

5:33

mostly saying something that really stuck with

5:35

me was which was he

5:36

said I would write in the morning and

5:38

then the afternoon, I would happily. And

5:41

and that's kinda how I've always viewed

5:43

writing. Like, it's great that the the writing

5:45

itself begets more running,

5:47

but gets more ideas. And that

5:49

to me is the the serve joy of it, even when

5:51

you have to write a fucking book. Yeah.

5:54

That's a part of it. I've never been able to get my head

5:56

around is that idea. Not just the stuff that you I mean,

5:58

I think if I got a deadline where someone was

6:00

like, alright. Well, let's circle back in six months. I

6:02

would dissociate. Like,

6:04

I would not there's no way that I would respond

6:06

to that in in, like, a constructive way. I

6:08

would just sort of be like, oh, great. Alright. So I get

6:10

five months off and then I really gotta get cracking.

6:12

To make sure that we make this work.

6:14

But the idea of, like, imposing

6:16

that discipline on yourself and

6:19

using it sort of affirmatively instead

6:21

of thinking of it as, like, something hung around your neck. I've

6:23

never been able to get my head

6:25

around. What? The idea of just, like, doing it,

6:27

spending those hours and being, like, alright. Good. Like, I'm done.

6:29

Or, like, now I'm adding to whatever

6:31

tomorrow's total will be. Well, at first,

6:33

it was hard to get used to because I

6:35

wasn't used to writing on

6:37

a schedule. And certainly

6:39

not the time of day that I chose because I

6:41

chose something like six AM to eight AM.

6:44

Right? Because because I'm a glutton,

6:46

obviously, I was like, I had to choose the

6:48

morning and I had to choose very specific

6:50

hours because I wanted it to get

6:52

started. I had to get the writing process

6:54

started before the day actually started. Because

6:56

once the day gets started, it could take on the

6:58

life of its own. The next thing you know, you're in a meeting,

7:00

you got a Zoom, you got this, you got that, and

7:02

it's like, I didn't want I don't want

7:04

to be fluctuating the time every

7:06

day. And even though I many

7:08

days, I would write early, come back

7:10

later, write some more, because

7:11

they're not really being in in a groove and

7:13

felt like the creative juices were flowing.

7:16

But

7:16

it was it was very difficult at

7:18

first to do that. And what

7:20

I I think what also helped is that I

7:22

took six months off from the Atlantic

7:24

to not write anything for them. I didn't

7:26

want to be writing other spaces and

7:28

writing it my book at the same time, and I think that was

7:30

also helpful. Okay. So

7:32

now that you managed to write the book

7:35

and you've gone on the tour, we can

7:37

ask you the hard questions. And there's

7:39

this time they won't jar you as much as it is

7:41

when you first got them from there. Right.

7:44

Okay. You're

7:45

right about your past a lot. Again, your mother's

7:48

past, your grandmother's past, a

7:50

lot of drug abuse, domestic

7:52

violence in your family, So I will go

7:54

from there to say how much of

7:57

that past informed your decision to

7:59

become

7:59

a

8:00

journalist in the journal that

8:02

you are today?

8:04

Well, I I would say this is that

8:06

I think it informs how I write

8:08

in the sense of that there's so

8:10

many different types

8:12

of situations I'm

8:14

able to relate to and

8:16

also that I can kinda

8:18

put myself in because I've been on the other

8:20

side of it. So people now

8:23

know if you've read my book. I I

8:25

think it gives you a good idea of what

8:27

shaped my politics and why I do think

8:29

the way that I do about certain issues.

8:31

What the I think the main the

8:33

reason or the main way it had an

8:35

impact on me becoming a writer period

8:37

is that I needed something

8:40

where I felt kind of whole and

8:42

complete, and writing was it. Writing

8:44

gave me a outlet. It was a vessel

8:46

for me. It was a comfort

8:48

for me. It was a safe haven for

8:50

me. And even though initially, I started

8:52

off more writing creatively in terms of short

8:54

stories and minature novels

8:56

that I would write and and more on that that

8:58

end and eventually gravitated to journalism.

9:01

The whole point was that writing was a refuge.

9:03

And because of the issues

9:05

with addiction and abuse and violence that

9:07

were going on in my family. It gave

9:09

me something else to pour

9:11

into that I needed to in order

9:13

to express those feelings of rage, of

9:15

anger, of disappointment, of

9:18

heartbreak, I could express that somewhere

9:20

else. And feel

9:22

as if I was being heard and feel

9:24

as if I was really, you know,

9:26

kind of

9:27

transporting myself into another world.

9:29

That's why I always love fiction, you know,

9:31

and thought my first book would always be

9:34

fiction is because fiction allows you

9:36

to create the world as it should

9:38

be or as you want it to be. And I

9:40

love the power in

9:41

that. It gave me a sense

9:43

of not just truth, but it gave me a

9:45

sense of agency that I did not have in

9:47

my life. So from that standpoint, the

9:50

problems in my family pushed

9:52

me to writing.

9:55

And it's no shortage of material,

9:57

either. Just from a, like, a clinical standpoint.

9:59

Like, it's

9:59

fascinating. Like, if, like, it's a lot

10:02

of stuff that happened. Yeah, it

10:04

is. And I know, you know how it is. I think

10:06

when people know you in a

10:08

public space. Everybody

10:10

assumes just because you

10:12

arrive at a certain point, whatever point they

10:14

feel like, is a point of

10:16

success. They assume that they kind of know

10:18

who you are, and they know your

10:20

makeup, and they know maybe even your background. Like,

10:22

I have to laugh hardly

10:25

when I'm called an elitist.

10:27

I was like, oh, you have no idea.

10:29

Right? Right. I'm

10:30

just like an elitist. That's saying, and it's

10:32

an interesting term that they're now associating

10:35

with journalists overall because they're only

10:37

looking at the journalists who are on TV that

10:39

are known not understanding that the majority

10:41

of journalism isn't very much a working class

10:43

profession. And that was my roots

10:45

as well is coming up approaching

10:47

journalism in a working class

10:48

way. Until I got to ESPN, which

10:51

changes the trajectory and, you know,

10:53

the lives of of of many, many people.

10:55

But yeah. I mean, it was I know it

10:57

was a lot to unpack in

10:59

this, but I felt like, you

11:02

know, memoir is a one time deal

11:04

usually. And so if you're gonna

11:06

do it, and especially

11:08

considering how important transparency is

11:10

in journalism period, I was

11:12

gonna treat myself like my own interview

11:14

subject and just lay it all out there.

11:16

And, you know, people react how

11:18

they react, but I felt like it

11:20

was the right approach because

11:22

nobody's gonna tell your story better than you.

11:25

So why leave anything on the table and give

11:27

somebody an opportunity down the road to

11:29

tell my

11:31

story in in a different way than

11:33

which I would have told it. You wrote that

11:35

your own childbirth was so complicated,

11:38

that doctors

11:38

told your father at one point. He

11:40

would have to choose Which person to save

11:42

in the delivery? You or your mom? Both of

11:44

you survived and you thought that was by the grace of

11:46

God. And your father

11:48

never told you who he chose and you

11:50

never asked him. But I

11:51

wanted to ask you, do you still

11:54

wonder about that

11:56

conversation? Do you still guess as

11:57

to what he might have decided to. I

11:59

don't wonder about it. Now maybe that's why I

12:02

didn't ask. Maybe there's a part of me

12:04

that feels that

12:07

feels like I kind of know the answer.

12:09

But, you know, in reflection, I

12:11

have thought about, like, do I really

12:13

know the answer I think I mean,

12:15

it it's it's funny because this is a

12:17

conversation me and my husband have had. We don't have any

12:19

kids, but this came

12:21

up when we did our marriage counseling. Right?

12:23

Is that, like, okay. We

12:25

did our mayor's counseling. They gave us

12:27

this workbook, which just filled with all sorts of

12:29

fascinating and crazy scenarios, and one

12:31

of which was that? And I was

12:33

going back and forth about it like, oh, but, you

12:35

know, I've lived my life. The baby hasn't

12:37

lived there. It's like, let them live their life.

12:39

And He the opinion that he was like, we

12:41

can always make another baby. I can't make

12:43

another you. I mean, you

12:45

know, not to sound cold blooded, but is We just

12:47

go back to the store and get a baby. It's

12:49

just like this. It's

12:51

fun. Yeah. I mean, but

12:53

it it is logical though.

12:55

It's like the the

12:57

wife or the spouse is somebody

12:59

that, you know, yes, you can say, oh, you could

13:01

get remarried. And, yeah, that may be true, but

13:03

you can create another baby.

13:05

Like, that's not to diminish what the baby means. So I

13:07

would have hoped that my father would have

13:09

picked my mother. But at the same time, I was

13:11

like, can I really say that because I turned

13:13

out to be pretty awesome. So I don't know. I

13:15

mean Is that is that what you thought

13:17

he chose? That's what I thought he

13:19

would he would choose is that it would it would be

13:21

my mother because I would think that he would

13:23

have kind of the same mentality.

13:25

Like, you can have other children.

13:27

Like, My mother's one of one even

13:29

though what does make it

13:31

complicated is they weren't married and they had

13:33

a very rocky relationship but

13:35

it was a rocky relationship which my father

13:37

at the moment and he wanted to be a part of.

13:39

My mother was a little more unsure

13:41

because they did have issues of abuse

13:43

and alcoholism My father at that

13:45

time was addicted to

13:47

drugs. My mother was not. And

13:49

so there were other issues that were

13:51

complicating that. So maybe the answer

13:53

isn't as simple and clear cut

13:55

as I think it is in my mind.

13:57

Well, the other thing is

13:59

that, you know,

14:00

if you're choosing between a

14:03

wife, and

14:03

and a child who has not been conceived

14:06

yet or has not been born yet.

14:08

One

14:08

is an unknown quantity. You

14:10

know You

14:11

know who your wife is? You've known your

14:13

wife for x number of years. You'd love your wife,

14:15

etcetera, or or or

14:17

your or your girlfriend or or the mother

14:19

of your child. Right? But your

14:20

child, you don't know that person

14:23

yet. Right? So, you

14:25

know,

14:25

it's like, you know, it's

14:26

like, oh, my wife and I want to have a four child.

14:29

They're like, fuck that. A four child.

14:31

If we had a four child and they grew up

14:33

and I'd be like, oh my god. I can't imagine my

14:35

life without this four child. What a what a

14:37

goddamn miracle. But I

14:39

don't have to know that child right

14:41

now. So I'm just talking to two of

14:43

them. See, that's that's another one

14:45

too, is that

14:45

you don't know what you're you're

14:47

getting. And I guess it

14:49

doesn't sound catalyst if you if you make that

14:51

choice and then the kid wants it being like a

14:53

tremendous asshole, then you're like, oh, man.

14:55

I I really I made the wrong

14:57

call here. Like, what am I doing?

14:59

So, yes. And this also got the known

15:01

versus the

15:01

unknown and the fact that know, it

15:04

you feel like it would be a lot harder

15:06

to duplicate having that

15:08

spouse or that partner's significant other than

15:10

it would be to have a

15:12

child. So, yes. You don't you

15:14

don't write about lightweight stuff at the

15:16

Atlantic, but this is

15:18

so much heavier

15:20

grade than like, I mean, because if

15:22

you look at, like, the the columns and

15:24

stuff that you do, I mean, there's some sports in it.

15:26

There's a lot of culture in it. It is

15:28

all a massive downshift from, like,

15:30

the existential questions of,

15:32

like, who your parents would

15:34

choose in a scenario like

15:36

this. Metabolically, what was it like

15:38

getting back into just blogging,

15:40

like, getting a post up every week? Like, was

15:42

that a relief after spending all that

15:44

time in this? Or, like, did you find that you

15:46

were just sort of, like, a fishcakes to

15:48

water back on it? No. It was just a

15:50

relief to finish it. Be I mean, honestly, a

15:52

relief to finish the book. You know,

15:54

once it's sent off, you know, once

15:56

I sent off the original draft and we started

15:58

getting into the editing process, the

15:59

sense of relief that I had, I couldn't even

16:02

tell you. But then, you know, sort of a new

16:04

paranoia takes place because you worry about

16:06

Did I get everything? Right. Factually, whatever.

16:08

Like, it Is there a typo? Yes.

16:10

Yes.

16:10

Oh, the title like, I had so

16:13

much anxiety over typos.

16:15

I can't

16:16

I can't I mean, I can't even begin

16:18

to explain that. And when they

16:20

sent me the advanced reader copy,

16:22

which was still being the

16:24

the actual manuscript was still being edited, but they sent

16:26

me the advanced reader copy, and it had

16:28

a

16:28

ton of typos in it. And I was

16:31

livid. I was just what if this is what

16:33

happens when the book comes out and we can't get this

16:35

back and it's just a book is so

16:37

much more permanent, so my level of

16:39

anxiety was a lot different.

16:41

And so you

16:41

know, answer your question, when I finally did

16:44

resume writing for the Atlantic, and the good thing

16:46

about my writing schedule for them is

16:48

that I'm not it

16:50

it it it's certain it's

16:52

not a thing where I have to write every Wednesday.

16:54

You know, I sort of write when I

16:56

feel like I have something to say and when I feel like there's

16:58

an issue of the moment that needs to be addressed.

17:00

So I'm writing very much by

17:02

feel. And I think that

17:04

was more of

17:06

relief that I didn't feel the pressure

17:08

that once I returned to writing, that I

17:10

had to start turning out, like, twenty columns

17:12

over the next month that I could

17:14

still write on the same normal

17:16

schedule. But, yeah, I mean, I I guess on some

17:18

level, it did feel better, you

17:20

know, sort of not writing about, like,

17:22

addiction and trauma and all those

17:24

things and then be able to to

17:27

shift to you know, lighter topics like Brittany

17:29

Greiner. So these are, like,

17:31

lighter topics like met political

17:33

prisoners -- Right. -- and my sadism -- Yeah.

17:35

-- and our funded age PCUs.

17:37

So eggs that just kinda, you know, roll right off

17:39

your back. Exactly. About ESPN for

17:41

a moment. Because you talked about it also in the

17:43

book. You were famously suspended from

17:46

ESPN for calling Donald

17:48

Trump, white supremacist

17:50

speculative. President, let's start

17:52

with an obvious question. Exactly how many things has

17:54

Trump done since then to

17:56

vindicate you since your

17:57

suspension? I mean, how long does this

17:59

podcast?

17:59

Like, we're gonna we're gonna say,

18:02

like, just It's rough number of how

18:04

many digits are in the number that

18:06

you would say. Right. I

18:08

mean, godly, it's because

18:10

it is especially at point being a regular Twitter

18:12

presence. It was it was

18:14

basically daily. Like, he was doing something

18:16

almost every day. And

18:18

even now when, you know, he were

18:20

recording, I mean, we brought up a Britney

18:22

Greiner earlier, but they the things that he said

18:24

about Britney Greiner about how she didn't deserve

18:26

to be freed and is a American

18:28

hating basketball player. Like, he's just he's

18:30

because it's intrinsically who

18:32

he is, he's always showing up that way.

18:34

So it's never not a part of

18:36

his discourse in some kind of way, some kind of

18:39

bigoted beliefs, some kind of

18:41

inflammatory comments. Like, it's

18:43

just how he rolls.

18:45

But, you know, III don't look

18:47

back on that because a lot of people kinda

18:49

want me to take that. I told you so moment, and

18:51

I don't really take that because

18:54

It comes with a cost, not me saying I told

18:56

you so, but the fact is that

18:58

I hate that I was so right about it. And even

19:00

more right than I knew I was when

19:02

I said it, And so III hate that because I

19:04

hate it for our country, and I hate it

19:06

for it I hate it for us because of what

19:08

has happened to our political

19:10

this scores as a result. And how

19:12

all these elections that

19:15

we've endured since the

19:17

presence of Donald Trump have

19:20

all felt

19:21

like, traumatic experiences instead

19:23

of being excited about

19:26

exercising your right to vote, which

19:28

there is a bit of that.

19:30

I'm sure it's also

19:31

it's also You

19:32

get a wonderful sticker, but

19:35

it's also voting under this

19:37

traumatic mindset of,

19:40

okay, I'm voting to basically save

19:42

my life every

19:43

time. It's just like

19:45

I'm not going there just to vote on some

19:47

millage increase of, like, oh, what? We gotta

19:49

pay fifty more cents because the Rose and Eve funding.

19:51

I would love to go into the voting booth

19:53

and just be able to vote on that

19:55

and say, oh, this isn't know,

19:57

yay or nay about something that

19:59

even if it happens, it's not

20:01

gonna ruin my life as opposed to

20:04

going into the ballot box these last, you

20:06

know, couple times and

20:08

being like, okay. So my life and the life of many

20:10

others are on the line. My my identity

20:12

in existence, that does not

20:14

feel like a good way to vote sometimes.

20:16

But also, you don't want it to be a moment

20:18

that defines you or your career

20:20

because I think after that,

20:22

after your suspension, you

20:25

became, I think, not unlike

20:27

Colin Kaepernick in that your name

20:29

could simply be invoked to get a reaction

20:31

among shit heads and dick heads online.

20:34

And that's like that's not fun. It sucks.

20:37

And it's

20:38

it feels like, I wanna ask you, is

20:40

it is it hard to divorce

20:42

yourself

20:43

from From

20:44

a discourse, it really is not it's

20:46

not really about you. It's just using you

20:48

to just recycle bullshit over

20:50

and over again. It it wears

20:52

on you. You know, it it it

20:54

certainly has worn on me that, you know, people

20:57

use me as some kind of bat

20:59

signal and usually in all the the

21:01

worst ways. Because of either

21:03

things I've said, things I do

21:05

say for generally things that I stand for.

21:07

They they're using it on purpose

21:10

to involve

21:12

a a very specific reaction.

21:15

And at times that could be angering, at

21:17

times that could be frankly hurtful.

21:19

And I know that

21:22

we've been all especially, you know, you're in

21:23

the the public eye and and you

21:25

write, and you know when you

21:27

write anything that you're leaving it up for public discourse.

21:29

So that's kind of part of the the

21:31

purpose of what comes along with the gig

21:34

of writing. But, you know, I

21:36

I don't like the disingenuous

21:38

of the attacks because I I like I

21:40

know what you're doing. I can see right

21:41

through it, and

21:42

it it does kind of you

21:45

know, like sort of eat away at you

21:46

because, you know, you

21:48

you don't you don't have the luxury of

21:50

of responding because then that just makes it

21:52

worse and then they get exactly what they wanted to

21:54

to begin with, which is for you to

21:56

respond to their dickishness. And I'm just

21:58

like, I

21:59

it

21:59

it it it just becomes sometimes a

22:02

very tough balancing

22:03

act for me. I can

22:05

imagine so because, you know, like, I've

22:07

gotten low back for stuff I've written, but

22:09

it's not the same. It's just not it's

22:11

not anywhere close because I'm a white guy or

22:13

a black woman. And so

22:16

I am someone who

22:18

you know,

22:18

if if people start taking a dump on me for,

22:21

like, saying, I didn't like the white lotus or whatever.

22:23

So, like, like, whatever who cares. Or

22:25

or if I support a a black person or

22:27

a gay person. That doesn't give the

22:29

bad faith actors the same rush they get

22:31

for going directly at those people themselves.

22:34

Yeah. No.

22:35

It it doesn't. Like, that's what

22:37

they're looking for is to to incite

22:39

a level of chaos because listen,

22:41

there's a

22:41

there's a lot of people, especially

22:44

you know, the media space or just have a public platform,

22:46

their entire agenda is

22:48

about creating chaos. It's not about

22:50

solving problems. It's not about

22:53

bringing a another nuanced

22:55

layer to a particular national

22:58

conversation. It's that's why you can't

23:00

please them. You know, in every that's why

23:02

the goalpost moves so much with them

23:04

because,

23:04

okay, even if you say agree with them on

23:06

something, they're gonna pull out something else and be like,

23:08

no. But I disagree because of this. I was like, oh, so you're just

23:10

a chaos agent. I get it. It's

23:13

annoying, but, you know, I sort of get it.

23:15

There's something really jarring

23:17

about that. I think that's really well said. But

23:19

as, like, realizing that that is actually

23:21

the political program that, like,

23:23

keeping people up set, like keeping them hanging around

23:25

through the next commercial break. But then that

23:27

that's not just I mean, if that

23:29

started as a cable news

23:31

thing, that at this point, that

23:33

is now, like, leading the

23:35

actual political party that

23:37

was supposedly being served by that cable network

23:40

around that, like, it's flipped

23:42

such that those methods are now

23:44

like just strictly because there isn't like

23:46

a political program that you can really

23:48

point to there that like the

23:50

Republicans are gonna legislate through the supreme court if

23:52

they legislate at all. They don't

23:54

really have like, they can't put your

23:56

ideas in front of the public if you are

23:58

them because people fucking hate

24:00

those ideas. I mean, there

24:03

is there's still that element of,

24:05

like, needing to have

24:07

people to be

24:09

upset at all the time. That that is

24:11

just basically like the whole of not just like that network,

24:13

but that that's the whole idea of

24:15

it. You gotta keep these people head up. Like, I

24:17

can't imagine I mean,

24:19

of course, there's, like, a dehumanizing aspect

24:21

to it. Like, if you are telling people like,

24:23

oh, well, you know, like, I agree with

24:25

her on some stuff. You know,

24:26

I don't always agree with her on her NFC North takes

24:28

or whatever, like, dwell hill is an interesting person,

24:30

but, like, they can't do that. They you

24:32

have to be a stand in for everything that

24:35

that audience hates. Yeah.

24:38

That level of dehumanization, like,

24:40

I mean, I can't again, like, I just

24:42

said what it feels But that is

24:44

it seems a level beyond the

24:47

sort of, like, play debate that

24:49

used to be the stock and trade at CNN and

24:51

still sort of is at ESPN. Like there's

24:53

something much darker running under it. Well, I mean, it's it's sort

24:56

of we have become a culture that's

24:58

really into arguing and

25:00

arguing at sport has

25:02

become the

25:03

definitive baseline, I think, for a lot of how TV

25:05

is is done. You know, I

25:07

was asked about I did

25:09

an another media

25:11

hidden, you know, was asked about

25:13

the exchange that took place between Skip

25:16

Bayless and Shannon Sharp that

25:18

recently went viral where it

25:20

seemed very personal and it seemed what

25:23

I thought to be crossing a lot of

25:25

boundaries that you know there are

25:27

certain programs that there's an expected discourse

25:30

of

25:30

combative debate. You know when you watch

25:32

first take exactly what you're getting. You

25:34

know when, you know, you watch

25:37

undisputed exactly what you're getting. That

25:39

is the core and intrinsic to who those programs

25:41

are. And that's that's what they traffic

25:43

in and what they're supposed to do. But

25:47

you know, I never have been

25:49

attracted to doing that kind of television.

25:51

I mean, a a playful debate,

25:53

playful ribbing, a little bit of roasting,

25:56

all good. But it

25:58

just is very eye

25:59

opening for me when I watch some of

26:02

these clips

26:02

and programs and I see how

26:05

quickly it can get very personal

26:07

and cross certain boundaries. Like, I

26:09

when me and Michael Smith, my former cohost

26:12

at ESPN, you know,

26:13

who I did five years of of television

26:16

with,

26:16

we never

26:18

came into any show that we

26:21

did together. With the idea or

26:23

intention or an agenda item to

26:25

embarrass the other person. Never was

26:27

on the table. Because we Well, it's a pretty good

26:29

television, Gemel. Apparently,

26:31

it's not I mean, and and it's not

26:33

sexy to say that, like and we would disagree

26:35

all the time. And we would, you know, roast

26:37

each other and make fun of each other, but it was in a

26:39

way that you're accustomed to friends doing

26:42

this. But the

26:44

type of shots that I see them take at

26:46

each other. I'm like, I don't know how

26:48

you're in a working

26:51

environment, and this is what you say

26:53

to each other on TV because I don't know

26:55

what you say to each other in private because

26:57

I'm like, godly. And so we

26:59

never wanted that to be a part of the show.

27:01

And listen, I'm not ripping those guys who do it. They're

27:03

able to do it. God bless them. If they like it, I

27:05

love it. But it's just never been

27:07

the type of television I wanted to do

27:09

that was centered not

27:11

just chaos, but a meanness

27:13

that's there. Are you

27:14

I had a party that I was always was confused

27:16

by. It was, like, that's a choice that people are

27:18

making. Like, that's your leisure time. Right there.

27:20

You know, like, you get a lot of stress and a lot of conflict in your day

27:22

to day no matter what you're doing just

27:24

by moving through the world and the idea of being

27:26

like, I'm gonna unwind at the end

27:28

of

27:28

my day with Skip Bail is

27:30

being so mean to Shannon Sharp that he takes

27:33

his glasses off. And then as soon as he takes his

27:35

glasses off, Skip starts making little

27:37

muppet sounds. That's not chill TV to

27:39

me. Like, that sucks. That's two guys who

27:41

are going to fight. That's okay.

27:43

I I unwind it to one night or read a

27:45

book and it was a book about the history of

27:47

coffee and, like, the history of coffee

27:49

is like really fucking dark. So we have

27:51

one of those things that you gotta do, like, a

27:53

thumbnail history of colonial brutality

27:55

before you get to the public. Espresso was

27:57

invented in April. I like it because I was like,

27:59

oh, I like

27:59

coffee. Let me read up all that coffee. And it

28:02

was like, Well, we

28:04

destroyed ninety

28:04

percent of Central America just so we

28:06

could probably get back there. And I'm like,

28:08

you know what? This is really educational, but I

28:11

don't feel relaxed. I wanna go. Yep. Put my

28:12

head through a fucking thing. But but you know

28:15

what? There is I mean, I I can't be a

28:17

total Hippocurt here either

28:19

because, like, one of my favorite shows

28:21

or leader in the clubhouse at the moment is real housewives

28:23

of Potomac. Now

28:24

-- No. -- I

28:26

think that it's away from me. You know, I

28:28

totally understand that, but those shows make me

28:31

so tense. I really just can't hack it, but I know

28:33

exactly what you're talking about. Like, I have a lot of friends that

28:35

watch those too, and it's like, I guess

28:37

you just sort of have to accept that they're a

28:39

little bit less real or something? Like, how does that

28:41

Yeah. I think that's I think that's what it

28:43

is, is that you you know that

28:46

they

28:46

are I wouldn't say

28:47

they're not being authentic is that they're purposely

28:50

being put in sit situations to

28:52

maximize the drama.

28:53

And you

28:55

know, but there there is something to be said for

28:57

looking at other people's lives and being like, woof.

28:59

I thought I had a bad my goodness. Like,

29:03

That is, like, something else. And then, you know, there's something about

29:05

drama and all this kind of

29:07

stuff. So I do think, you know,

29:09

even though I know, you know, women watch

29:12

the shows like but think it's a largely predominantly

29:15

male audience. Like

29:17

undisputed in first take are the men's version of

29:19

real housewives. That's what

29:21

it is. That's Like, what it what what

29:23

we're what real

29:23

housewives does for me is what it

29:26

does for a lot of men because I could

29:28

I mean, they could take offense. Like, I mean,

29:30

I'm not but watching the reaction

29:31

to that skip and Shannon Clipp was very

29:34

interesting because it was

29:36

so many dudes, like, oh, I

29:38

can't wait see it the next day. Like, talk to me

29:40

about it like you would have soap opera. Like, wait till the

29:42

next episode, it's on a cliffhanger. And

29:44

he came at him like this and that. And I would have

29:46

done this and this and that. Same

29:48

reaction if you watch a reality show.

29:50

Same thing. Hey. Speaking of speaking of entertainers.

29:52

One second ad break, and we'll come right back with your

29:54

mouth. Yo. You

29:57

made

29:59

it check out of office to check

30:02

into the sweet views of.

30:03

This place where the kids aren't

30:06

asking for the

30:06

WiFi. Mom, can we go to the pool? And when

30:08

you're with Amex, it's not if it's going to

30:11

happen, but when? American Express. Don't

30:13

live life without it.

30:14

Okay. We

30:17

are

30:17

back with you now ill,

30:19

and we'll talk about you for a little bit more

30:21

then we're gonna also talk about actual current

30:23

score. So I wanted to ask you, since

30:25

we were talking about ESPN earlier,

30:28

Are both you and Michael Smith

30:30

your old co anchor?

30:32

Are you guys pleased with

30:34

essentially, you know, what has how

30:36

your lives and careers have evolved?

30:38

Since

30:40

since you guys left

30:42

ESPN? Or do you, like, do you

30:44

ever see sports center on a TV at the

30:46

airport sort of wonder how things might have been different. You ever

30:48

see Michael doing stuff on

30:51

NFL network and ever think, oh, what if we were

30:53

still together or things like that? Well,

30:55

I do think, you

30:57

know, I'm very

30:58

happy with with what I'm

31:00

doing now. And, you

31:02

know, being able to contribute to so

31:04

many different platforms. Now working more

31:06

on on the producing side and behind

31:08

the scenes and doing film

31:11

and TV projects. Like, I love the of

31:13

storytelling that I'm able to do now

31:15

and really able to expand beyond

31:17

even what I saw at all

31:20

saw myself doing, I should say,

31:22

at ESPN. But do think that there will

31:24

always be something kind of

31:26

bittersweet about our

31:26

experience there. But one,

31:28

and we he and I have talked

31:31

about this you know, personally, so I'm not talking out of school is

31:33

that what we did his and hers as

31:35

much as but grind as it was

31:37

and we if

31:39

we were if we did have a regret or something we wish

31:41

we would have done differently, it

31:43

would be that we didn't appreciate

31:44

what we were creating because we didn't know what

31:46

we were creating. And it

31:48

a lot lot of

31:49

hard work. But at the same time,

31:51

we always we had this chip on

31:53

our shoulder that, you know,

31:55

we felt like we were

31:58

disperspected and overlooked. And so that

31:59

chip drove us to

32:01

really break every television rule that

32:04

we could. And because we had

32:06

that chip, in

32:06

process. We did not appreciate

32:09

the

32:09

creative process that we had and how unique

32:11

that really was. And it wasn't until we

32:13

got the Sports Center that we were like, oh,

32:15

the shit we were doing on his and hers is like, it's

32:17

not gonna work here

32:18

because the vibe is different. You know, it's

32:21

kinda like if you're, you know,

32:23

at one of those clubs that has different

32:25

floors with different types of music. And so, yeah, you

32:27

might be at the park where they're playing, like, nineties r and

32:29

b and you and their vibe and, like, oh, this is such

32:31

a good time. You know, you go upstairs and, you know,

32:33

they're playing, like, techno. You're, like,

32:36

not the same vibe. Cannot Right.

32:38

Exactly. Can't bring

32:40

the same you know, can't dance the same

32:42

way up here, not vibing the same way up

32:44

here, totally different crowd up

32:46

here. So it's different. And even though

32:48

Sports Center had all the pretty things that

32:50

we we

32:50

thought we wanted and felt like we

32:52

deserved, you know, brand new seventeen million

32:54

dollar studio as opposed to being in

32:57

a closet when we were doing his and

32:59

hers, triple the production

33:01

staff, all the promotion, our own

33:03

commercial, marketing, we had all those things that

33:05

we thought we wanted. And when we got

33:07

them because of what the creative

33:09

process was, it made it

33:10

much more un unfulfilling.

33:12

So Well, so you still

33:14

to live in Bristol. Right? Still had

33:16

to live in Bristol, which in itself

33:18

is his own type of

33:21

particular sense of absorb it. But

33:23

we you know, I think it taught us a

33:25

very important lesson. Oh, I

33:26

just speak for myself. I think it taught me a

33:28

very important lesson.

33:29

Not only that, you know, bigger and

33:31

and prettier is not always better,

33:33

but there's something to be said for

33:36

appreciating the moments that you're in and

33:38

not being so anxiety

33:41

written or so anxious to move on

33:43

to the next

33:44

moment. So yeah. I mean, I I don't

33:46

I don't wish I don't know what we could have

33:48

done differently,

33:49

to be honest. Like, I don't regret taking this

33:51

sports center job even though it didn't turn out the

33:53

way I expected. Certainly don't

33:55

regret making the

33:56

full time move to television because this

33:59

these are all things that

33:59

change my life. But

34:01

when you don't get to end things on your

34:04

own terms, it it does sit with you

34:06

much differently than than when you're able to. But,

34:08

you know, to

34:09

be honest, very

34:10

few people get

34:11

to dictate how they leave certain

34:14

jobs? No. Yeah. Not not in discovery.

34:15

What do you think

34:18

of ESPN since

34:19

you left? Like, do you watch it? Like, I'm

34:21

gonna tell you about, like, like, Monday night football

34:23

or, like, live game broadcast. Do you watch

34:25

sports center? Do you watch

34:28

sports take? III don't really watch first take very

34:30

often. It's funny because, like, I think my my like,

34:32

my husband loves that show, so he watches

34:34

it a little little bit more than than

34:36

than I

34:38

do. Usually, I'm I'm I'm not able to I mean, we

34:40

both have, you know, busy work schedules,

34:42

but, you you know, like, when he works out early

34:44

in the morning because on the West Coast where we are,

34:47

first take a zone at seven AM. So it's kinda like before the work

34:49

day get started, so it's a little bit different.

34:52

But I yeah. I I rarely

34:54

watch it. I'll catch glimpses of it

34:56

every now and again. Not that I'm trying

34:58

to avoid it, but I'd like to

35:00

wake up watching my favorite

35:02

morning show, which is Good Day LA. I would hear in LA.

35:04

So I'm music watching that figure out, like, going

35:06

on in LA or or

35:08

whatever. And, you know, how did you get

35:10

early enough to watch the car chase of the morning,

35:12

everyone? Well, but see people

35:14

don't know. Like, that's under rated part of

35:15

watching LA news is that every day, they're

35:18

gonna give you something. Okay? You'll

35:20

get something. They'll get

35:20

to sort of the, like, the degraded, like, real life

35:23

version of heat everyday when you guys

35:25

call me. Our our our our our our

35:27

tops, but I will say

35:28

coming up the

35:30

ranks fast are animal incidents. Animal incidents are

35:33

big. Like a big story. Oh. Yes. They're

35:35

big. A big story right now here in LA

35:37

is that this mountain lion that

35:39

apparently has been in existence or at least

35:42

that has really been roaming,

35:44

you know,

35:44

these these this LA area for,

35:46

like, ten years going some things. He's got, like,

35:49

you know, they it's it's a really set it's

35:51

sort of a sad story because he he probably We're

35:53

very pro p twenty to --

35:55

Yes, please. -- website. Yeah. Oh, yes. The p what do you

35:57

do? Yeah. I mean, just I think it's, you know, you

35:59

gotta actually,

36:00

yes. This is Barry wrote a post about

36:02

it yesterday. And I didn't really know too much about it. I saw

36:05

the pictures of the mountain line being captured

36:07

in a backyard in, like -- Yeah. -- the Hollywood

36:09

hills. I was like, that's interesting. I

36:11

wound up feeling kinda like a little misty for p

36:13

twenty two. I'm very misty for p

36:16

twenty two. Like, they they said he is a

36:18

eye issue and that, generally, he

36:20

stays away from people. But lately, you

36:22

know, he's just been a little more contankerous because

36:24

they feel like his health is failing. I am

36:26

invested in this story. So clearly,

36:28

very invested. But yeah. Yeah.

36:30

Obviously, RFP to the Chihuahua is the

36:32

p twenty two with the -- Yeah. -- that's obviously

36:34

precipitated the thesis. But That's why

36:36

it's complicated. Story. Was all the footage of the the mountain line in night vision

36:38

where, like, it looks at the camera in night

36:40

tables or, like Yeah. Of course. Of course. Of

36:42

course. It was. So but, you know, I

36:44

I watched I

36:46

watch my friends on, you know, like, on ESPN. Like, III

36:49

would definitely catch Jaylen and Jacoby. I

36:51

I love tuning in around

36:53

the

36:53

horn and while it

36:55

may not be necessarily appointment television,

36:57

you know, if it's on, I'll definitely

36:59

watch it because, you know, these are a

37:01

lot of the writers that I read, a

37:03

lot of the writers I respect, have personal relationships

37:05

with. So, yeah,

37:06

around the horn and Jalen and Jacoby,

37:08

and you know,

37:10

sports center, like, l Duncan

37:11

and Kevin Nagandy, friends of mine. So it's,

37:14

like, Michael Lee. He's, like, I watch some

37:16

of my friends

37:18

work beyond just the, you know, just

37:20

the the live event

37:22

programming that went that people do or just,

37:24

you know, like,

37:27

Ryan Clark and and and Marcus Spears, like, before

37:30

Marcus Spears kinda made this turn

37:34

into heavy NFL analysis in the chemistry he's

37:36

been able to build with Ryan, with Dan

37:38

Orlowski, seeing me in a times, like, every

37:40

time I

37:42

see the people I had relationships with at ESPN on air and

37:44

doing their thing and seeing how much they've

37:46

come into their own. Like, I I'm

37:49

overjoyed for them. Jamil, are

37:52

you as sad as I am that England got

37:54

knocked out of the World Cup? Or are you

37:56

even sadder?

37:57

Oh,

37:59

wow. She is You don't have to ask me

38:02

to answer my question. I am very I'm

38:04

just I'm distraught. Distraught is

38:06

the word that I would use for England

38:09

-- Everybody. Being knocked out.

38:10

We just wanted

38:11

to see more English soccer players

38:13

on their TV. I need to see some

38:15

flushed looking guys that look like they just

38:17

got ejected from a pub. Like,

38:19

I don't come back Trevor

38:22

and he's like, you wall. I'm like, that's that's

38:24

what I'm that's why I

38:26

watch sports. Thing about

38:28

being distraught. The Boston Celtics are

38:30

legitimately extremely good, probably the best

38:32

team in the NBA. Jamal, what can

38:34

we do about that? Is there anything

38:36

And Jason Tatum looks like the front runner for MVP right

38:38

now. I saw the game that they had had

38:40

with the Lakers last night as, you know,

38:42

we're recording this podcast, which they won

38:46

in overtime. They look

38:48

extremely, extremely good. And, you

38:51

know, as much as it

38:53

may pain. Someone like you is that you

38:56

may just have to accept the fact that

38:58

they're going to be good, and I don't

39:00

think

39:00

Never. Oh, sure. Let's get

39:02

up. I'm a Pistons fan. Our season is

39:04

already over. Like, it's just Oh, okay. Yeah. I

39:07

mean, it's very Sorry, man. Yeah. It's

39:09

off of the season. Terrically.

39:10

Yeah. I know Kate is out for the season, but,

39:12

you know, I guess, the only thing I can

39:14

look forward to is, oh, we get another lottery pick,

39:16

which is great. Like, we're building a young foundation

39:20

and that's for sure. But at some point, it would be great to

39:22

see us making a move further

39:24

into into relevance.

39:25

But, yes, the Celtics are

39:28

good and we're all gonna have to live

39:30

with it. So, you know, you know, I don't love

39:31

to praise, you know, the Boston Celtics, like,

39:34

growing up in Detroit, but, like, they're

39:36

they're very good. And I think Jason Tatum

39:38

is just such an amazing, excellent player. He's a

39:40

he's the player that reminds me the most of

39:42

Kobe. It's him. Yep. I think

39:44

that's what he's going for and yet I think

39:46

he's like,

39:48

doing it in kind of a non toxic way. I was surprised at how close I

39:50

came to actually getting there with them last year.

39:52

Like by the time they got to

39:54

the finals, they were pretty They're

39:57

entertaining. They have their shit together. Like, I

39:59

think we're

39:59

amazing. And, like, I'm just

40:01

there's something in me that does

40:03

not cheer for team in that uniform very readily. And

40:05

yet, like, if you were to put any

40:07

other uniform on them, I would have been like, ah, these

40:09

heroes, like, they're giving

40:12

a haircut. Like, if they're in the

40:14

neck brace grizzlies, you'd be like,

40:16

oh, fuck. That seems right.

40:18

And then you see, like, the

40:20

entire Wallberg family sitting by the court and you're like, no. No. Get it together. not

40:22

doing this. No. It's it's

40:24

it's Seth.

40:26

I

40:30

do I do I do wanna go back to your position because

40:32

there is that moment where

40:34

you really wanna get past

40:37

that time when

40:38

you're a fan and you're already daydreaming about the

40:40

draft you've during the regular season. Like, you

40:42

don't feel like you're like, oh, wow. Okay.

40:45

Alright. We're we lost, but, oh, that might give

40:48

us the number twelve pick. Like

40:50

Yeah. You don't want this to be your reality

40:52

for forever. And that

40:54

and in this regard. I'm jealous of of my husband because

40:57

he's at the best of both worlds. Right? So

40:59

his his alliance team is is doing great

41:01

and better

41:01

than they've done in

41:04

a while. And the lions have the Rams first round pick,

41:06

and

41:06

the Rams are putrid

41:08

right now. Yeah. Some they suffered a third

41:10

pick in the Yes. So now yeah. They're gonna get

41:13

a top five pick, and they're

41:15

already

41:15

making inroads to be

41:17

one

41:17

of the better teams it'll be a different

41:19

conversation about the lion's next year. With the NFC

41:21

North, they've discovered something with

41:23

Jared Goff, obviously, another

41:26

LA throwaway, if you will. And so I

41:28

was like, wow, you're in a really good

41:30

position. I mean, with the Pistons, it's

41:33

like, we're irrelevant. Our

41:34

number one draft pick is out. And

41:36

usually, like, I watch

41:38

my college basketball team, which is Michigan

41:42

but I don't pay attention to the landscape of college basketball until after

41:44

Christmas. Now I gotta pay attention

41:46

because I gotta look at, okay,

41:48

who's who's gonna be? Our lottery pick

41:51

you know,

41:51

come come this draft. So it's

41:54

just it is, you know,

41:56

you you hate that feeling of when the

41:58

draft is your your Super Bowl or your

41:59

NBA finals every year. Yeah.

42:02

Yeah. There's the coldest shot of all is having to

42:04

watch, like, regular season

42:06

big ten conference games. Like,

42:08

just who are counting guys on

42:10

Ohio State Yeah. And they're and they're all gonna end, like, forty eight to forty

42:12

one. And you're just, like, why am I watching this

42:14

on a random Thursday night? I I

42:16

made the

42:18

choice. To start watching Rutgers basketball years ago. Like, I mean, that's

42:20

hilarious. At the time, that was,

42:22

like I think when I first started, it was

42:26

basically, like, a hangover related decision. And now I'm just, like,

42:28

seeking them out. Now you're into it. In

42:30

game of the week, you look, did much up really well with

42:32

Minnesota. That's my fault. Like, I

42:34

did that.

42:36

I'm starting to wonder. I'm like, do you love yourself? It's like, oh, is this? Oh,

42:38

I mean, it's like, it's I wanna say

42:40

that it's a New Jersey thing, but also

42:43

the answer to your question And

42:45

this is also an answer to the New Jersey thing. It's like, honestly,

42:47

I'm not sure. I don't

42:50

know. Like, I wanna believe I do and yet I

42:52

look at the evidence of the decisions that I make

42:54

and I have real quick. Let's

42:56

remember let's remember a guy.

42:58

Jamal, every week we remember

43:00

a guy on the podcast, not necessarily a

43:02

great athlete, but just an athlete of your and

43:04

you think, oh, I remember that guy. Would

43:06

you like to remember a guy? Oh, would

43:08

I like to remember a

43:10

guy? I I give you the guy. I don't

43:12

make you remember Oh, you're

43:13

the guy. Okay. Tell me the guy. Okay.

43:16

Alright. I'm good. I was like, oh. Oh.

43:18

No. Yeah. I went I was so

43:20

good. Like, you know, it's not a test. It wouldn't be fair, you Anyway,

43:22

in honor of your choice routes and

43:24

really in honor of your husband.

43:26

Our guy of the week

43:28

It's job at best. You remember that guy, you know? do. Yes. He played

43:31

a Notre Dame. Correct? Whoa. No.

43:34

You know now. Yeah.

43:36

Think Cal. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. You are correct. I

43:38

do remember Java best. Yeah. Because he was he

43:40

was like a little like,

43:43

a back wide receiver running back

43:46

type. Yeah. I didn't remember Jacob

43:48

as. He was one of

43:49

my favorite types of wide we're running back.

43:51

So it's just like like perfectly cubic

43:53

man, like, just very short and very fast,

43:55

had a sort of a shorter career

43:57

than you probably like,

43:59

ninety eight concussions during his career. Yeah.

44:02

He did. I think that it's possible

44:04

that our coworker, Patrick Redford, had the

44:06

experience of running track against him in

44:08

high school. Which was

44:10

indeed Like, not so

44:12

much. Like, it was one of those experiences that,

44:14

like Anybody that's had that experience of

44:16

competing against the division one athlete when they were

44:18

just a normal high school yachts

44:20

and has been dining out on it for years. It's

44:22

that sort of thing where it was like, yeah. Like, it was

44:24

the hurdles. Like, none of us could jump over them, but,

44:26

like, job it best actually said a

44:28

national record. Well, it's it's funny because

44:30

when you said Javid Best and don't

44:32

ask me why my brain processed this

44:34

this way as Carlisle holiday, speaking of

44:36

remembering a die. Oh my

44:38

god. I was thinking of I don't know why.

44:40

I was thinking of Carlisle holiday

44:42

or whatever. But yes. You don't ever

44:44

have to apologize to give Carlo Yeah.

44:46

I know. That's about that. That's beautiful. What

44:48

a cool moment. Because I

44:49

think if I recall, like, job at best, you

44:51

know,

44:51

his speed. He was like A4344

44:54

guy. Like,

44:54

he was kinda ridiculous. And

44:56

it is unfortunate because I

44:59

think he

45:01

was a first round pick. First source yeah.

45:03

I think he was a first round pick for the lions. And This was

45:05

actually

45:05

a second, but Like, first of the second, I was I

45:07

knew he was taken early, like,

45:10

somewhere early. Yes. And,

45:14

you know, but the the concussions, like,

45:16

just ruined, you know, his

45:18

career because I I believe

45:20

at Cowal, he suffered, like, two pretty bad ones

45:22

his last year that were, like,

45:24

brutal. And a lot of people,

45:26

if I

45:28

were called the narrative. A lot of people thought the lion shouldn't take him because of his

45:30

concussion history and that it was a really big gamble.

45:32

Yeah. There was no protocol back then

45:34

either. No. It was a you can cuss

45:38

well well, here have some Gatorade and you'll get back in. Thank you, Hannah. He had,

45:40

like, concussion and spinal stuff. It was, like,

45:42

one of those sort of, I shouldn't

45:44

be watching this. Yeah. Defel

45:46

triggers, which is Gram. Well,

45:48

then let's let's be let's go to a a

45:50

lighter note, and let's open up a fun bag.

45:52

Jumelle Hill, this is from Jim.

45:54

Jim writes in how do you think it

45:56

would play

45:56

out if instead of penalty kicks at the World

45:58

Cup, they just added a

45:59

second ball at the end of the extra

46:02

time periods and then just kept

46:04

adding balls every ten minutes or so.

46:06

Would you like to see multi

46:08

ball soccer in the extra time

46:10

at the World

46:12

Cup Gemalto? That suggestion reminds me of when I

46:14

lived in Orlando was a columnist there, and we used

46:16

to play drunken soccer on

46:18

Sunday mornings.

46:18

Yeah. Junk and

46:20

soccer was awesome. I think I would

46:22

propose junk

46:23

and soccer over adding multiple balls

46:25

because we would

46:28

go you know, a lot of times, like, we go for, like, brunch somewhere

46:30

or just

46:30

somewhere to have drinks, bring

46:32

drinks to the field, get as drunk

46:35

as possible,

46:35

and then try to

46:38

play soccer. I would like to see that happen at the World Cup in

46:40

lieu of penalty kicks. Like, as

46:42

soon as, you know,

46:44

regulation is over, everybody start

46:46

doing shots and then you roll the ball out and see who

46:48

can make the penalty kick. Because soon

46:50

as extra time gets held up, you just

46:52

hear cock till she's going on the sidelines. And, like, guys, it's gonna be better. It's a better

46:54

idea. Yeah. We'll be all for it, and

46:56

they were they'll be about to start the drunken

46:58

extra time

47:00

period. And then Qatar officials would be, like, I'm sorry, but you have to

47:02

substitute Spotting me on or even that.

47:04

For that. We we have to do a shot at Warangina

47:08

Yeah. A lot of a lot of old dual old duals being consumed, I

47:10

assume, at the at the World Cup.

47:12

Hargina. I'm glad that you

47:14

snuck that in there, Drew. This is

47:17

like, a very rare issue of remembering a

47:19

soft drink. Oh my god. I used to I

47:21

used to think Eugenia was the absolute classiest

47:23

shit in the world. Orgina or apple teas, if that was on a

47:25

restaurant menu when I was, like, twelve. I was, like,

47:28

fuck yeah, mom. Yeah. I'm having your orgina.

47:30

I was, like, we're doing it. Mom, you

47:32

have a

47:34

soda list. That I could review. Okay. So we do that now at Christmas,

47:36

my my mom we go to my mom's house. We

47:38

do it here too. We're like like

47:40

the the girl's love champagne. I don't know if

47:42

champagne's not

47:44

freaking But then for the kids, you get the the bottle of Martin Nelly

47:46

sparkling side of it. Martin Nelly's. Yeah.

47:48

And it it comes, like, the pilot

47:50

looks like a bottle of champagne.

47:52

And, like, if you were, like, really christmasy, you get

47:55

the cranberry away, and you're like, oh, and you're bored and you're a champion. I'm glad

47:57

they make a rosé.

47:59

they got I

48:02

know.

48:04

Is is it bad that I've never heard of Orange

48:06

Gina? Is that absolute is gone? No.

48:08

No. You don't. It's I don't.

48:12

I can't imagine you growing up like I can't imagine you coming up

48:14

hard in Detroit and being like, mom, can I you

48:16

were gonna be some Regina at the corner market. Like,

48:18

I think that would probably be

48:21

But

48:21

we we we had we had Fagot. Fagot was is the

48:23

Fagot. Yeah. Fagot. Yeah. Fagot. You know, I

48:25

know Fagot. I only

48:28

know Fagot. Because of an

48:30

MTV News segment on the insane cloud

48:32

policy. Yeah. That's how large people know.

48:34

I'm

48:35

sorry. Yeah. Okay.

48:37

Was Fagot was Fagot good? Oh, Fagot

48:39

was amazing. Like, is so many,

48:41

you know, like, Fagot Peach,

48:43

rock and rye, No orange.

48:46

You make yes. Fagot orange. Like,

48:48

Fagot goes hard. You can get Fagot

48:50

at Costco's or Sam's

48:52

Club. Can I can I

48:53

you did you say rock and rye

48:54

as I can say? Caraway, like,

48:57

caraway seed flavored stoner?

49:00

I'm not sure what is made up, but it's like

49:02

it's like a rye and it has rock in

49:04

it and I'm kidding. It's a rye.

49:07

It's like some kind of ryan that, like, it's great for a

49:09

ice cream float, like, by far, like, you pour the

49:11

Fago over ice cream and you make yourself a ice

49:13

cream float

49:14

with rock and rock. Or It's

49:15

a sweet like,

49:18

how I wanna say, barley

49:18

is not the right word, but, like, it's like a

49:20

sweet root beer. That's what it is.

49:22

As this Oh, so it doesn't taste like rye

49:24

bread. It doesn't taste like No. No. No. No. No.

49:26

No. It tastes like rhubarb. That's yeah.

49:28

That's they need to be more oshkenazi, so

49:30

it's a lot like a pot roast.

49:32

One. I want a rye bread one. Do you have any what

49:35

do you have in a spicy mustard?

49:37

I see mustard. Devon

49:41

writes in will make us the last one. What are the best and worst names for hippopotamus

49:43

bars and restaurants? I'm just listening

49:45

to something referenced It's

49:48

something that referenced a rouse, and I think that's a pretty good one.

49:50

Meanwhile, my name is Devin, and I am confident

49:52

that at Devin's would be aggressively avoided.

49:56

And how does the descriptor change things? Devin's draft house seems like

49:58

an improvement. It might even last six

50:00

months. What would be your preferred

50:03

first day moniker? For a

50:05

bar or, let's say, bad Tex Mex restaurant that

50:07

we're going to Juno.

50:10

You

50:10

know what? Like,

50:13

if the name does not match what

50:15

they're trying to represent. Like Devin like,

50:17

if you it was called Devin's pub. You'd

50:19

be like, okay. That makes

50:20

sense. Oh. Yes. It is. Right? Yep.

50:22

But

50:22

-- Yep. -- if it

50:25

is called, like, you

50:27

know, I don't know,

50:29

like, Carl's brewery. You might be like, I don't

50:31

know about this. Like, that doesn't seem like

50:33

that, you know, or like,

50:35

Carl's Mexican Tex Mex joint. You're like

50:38

Yeah.

50:38

That'd be perfect. You'll be like, I feel like somebody like

50:40

Karl would know anything about textbooks. You

50:42

know what I'm saying? Is that short for anything?

50:44

Exactly. Any other letters you're leaving off the

50:46

name. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. No. That's

50:49

very simple. Yeah. We got it. No. We would not buy that at all.

50:51

Like, if I went to a Jamaican place and

50:53

it was, like, breads,

50:56

stew chicken. I'll be like, hell no. I'm not I'm not eating that. I'm not eating

50:58

that because there's no way somebody named Brad knows

51:00

how to make great stew chicken. Jared

51:03

Eskovich. Yeah. The we got there's a

51:05

big trend in I guess it's like a few years behind, which is why it's

51:08

finally hitting the neighborhood that I live

51:10

in now. Where you have a

51:12

definite article on a name and that's for

51:14

the name of your place or you're like the

51:16

Milton. And that's all. Yeah. I

51:18

could be that could be luxury rentals, and that could be

51:20

small places in the

51:22

portal. Right. Either way, it's just kind of there's

51:24

something about it

51:26

that is not for bidding

51:28

for me, but where I'm sort of just like I don't

51:30

wanna pay an extra five dollars for the

51:32

experience of like the fact that you're playing

51:34

Bon I different. But it gives But it gives

51:36

you but it it now that I think

51:38

about it, the the

51:38

in front of it gives it

51:42

more

51:42

legitimate more legitimacy than it should have.

51:44

Like, it's very few names you could put the

51:46

in front of, and it wouldn't work. Like,

51:48

it could be the Drew. You mean, like,

51:52

oh, I

51:52

bet they have a I bet they have a baguette brunch at the Drew.

51:54

You know

51:55

what I mean? They serve.

51:57

Yeah. You

51:58

like you would think, you know,

51:59

if I said to some of

52:00

my girlfriends, like, we're going to the

52:02

Drew, they'd be like, yes, I'm down. Like, let's

52:04

do that. But we love a good express of

52:06

boozy brunch. But if it was we're

52:09

going to droos, they'd be like, what to They're like,

52:11

what what are the parts? Right. Exactly. They're like,

52:13

what are they serving at droos? It's like, are

52:15

we gonna have to, like, eat, like,

52:16

frozen chicken wings that they just threw in a air fryer and

52:19

it's, like, not that good? Like, yes. That's

52:21

exclusively tater. Oh, my goodness. Nick's

52:23

and Chantel holder are

52:26

producers Ritchie is our executive producer, our theme song is by Kirk Hamilton. You

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forget to rate review and subscribe. Whatever is

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strides to effect her him while you're

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at and Jumel Hill, her book is

52:46

uphill. And her podcast, she has her

52:49

own podcast, and Jumel Hill is unvoted

52:51

that's available also wherever you get

52:53

to podcast Guillermo Hill, it was an absolute pleasure to

52:55

have you on. Thank you so much. Thank you.

52:57

And now

52:57

you're gonna have me thinking about bar names the rest

52:59

of the day. Thank you. I appreciate

53:01

you. It's not bad. Thing. We'll

53:03

see you guys next week

53:06

goodbye. Thanks.

53:16

Your

53:17

plans Today, it's dinner with the

53:19

parents at your spot. Gotta come back

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here. Now, their spot. Or

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you're on the edge of your seat at the game.

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Come on. Just

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one time. And it's the one more.

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Or maybe you're catching the

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next flight to Now boarding

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flight eighteen fifty. Oh, That's

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you. The choice is yours. And when you're

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it's not if it's going

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to happen. But one, American

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Express, don't live

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life without it.