0:00

Coming up on this episode of the

0:02

doctor's pharmacy.

0:03

You're more likely to get not only get just two

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more likely to gain weight. at diabetes, have

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0:11

have depression, anxiety, ADD, dementia,

0:14

and a lot of other things when your gut's not working.

0:17

Hey, everyone. It's doctor Mark. I

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And now, let's get back to this week's

2:50

episode of The Doctors Pharmacy. Hi.

2:52

This is Lauren Phean, one of the producers

2:55

of the doctor's pharmacy podcast. Our

2:57

gut and the tons of back criteria that reside

3:00

within it regulate many of our bodily

3:02

functions. From creating vitamins to

3:04

controlling our immune system, our brain

3:06

function, and course our metabolism and

3:08

weight. The health of the community of microbes

3:11

living in and on our bodies

3:12

is a top priority for overall

3:14

wellness. In

3:15

many probiotics can be

3:17

a great way to encourage a healthy gut microbiome

3:19

and therefore a healthy body. In

3:21

today's episode, we see feature three conversations

3:24

from

3:24

the doctor's pharmacy

3:25

on why our guts are so imbalanced and

3:28

how we can repair them using probiotics.

3:30

Dr. Heimhan speaks with Drew employed on

3:32

the vital gut brain connection and sources

3:34

of probiotic foods. With

3:36

Dr. Tracy

3:37

Chaffazada and why gut health is important

3:39

during pregnancy and what probiotics

3:42

to give to babies. And with doctor Elizabeth

3:44

Foam on the importance of working with

3:46

a skilled practitioner

3:47

to determine if probiotics are right

3:49

for you. Let's jump in. We

3:52

live in a gut busting world. I mean, our

3:55

hybridized process, high sugar, high

3:57

starch diet, low fiber, low

3:59

polyphenol

3:59

diet is a disaster for the gut. So it's

4:02

a perfect storm for creating bad bugs. Second,

4:04

we know we're born by C sections. We don't press

4:06

feet as much. We get early

4:08

antibiotics. We use all kinds of drugs screw

4:11

up the gut from acid blockers to anti inflammatories

4:13

to the pill for birth control. And

4:16

all that is a perfect storm.

4:18

On

4:18

top of that, you've got all the

4:21

ingredients

4:21

and processed food like Carrapine

4:24

and gums and emulsifiers that further

4:26

damage the gut and cause like you got. If

4:28

that were enough, our food is often

4:30

filled with pesticides and herbicides, glyphosate,

4:32

for example, which is a microbiome destroyer.

4:34

So we basically live in a gut busting

4:36

world and we have to be

4:38

very vigilant about keeping our gut healthy

4:41

even if we don't have got symptoms. So

4:43

one of the first questions that people had Mark on this

4:45

topic of probiotics is store

4:47

bought probiotics and things like kombucha

4:49

and probiotic beverages, are

4:51

they actually healthy and can they be

4:53

beneficial to be? Yeah. So let's just take kombucha

4:55

because that's the kind of big craze and I'll and I'll

4:57

go down the other ones. I mean, kombucha

4:59

is great for a lot of people. It can be fine.

5:01

It's it's a bubbly drink. It

5:03

tastes good. It actually has

5:05

probiotics in it. It can be beneficial.

5:07

But a lot of them also are loaded with sugar.

5:10

So those of them. Yeah. So

5:12

I mean, without them, they taste pretty bad. Without

5:14

sure it tastes pretty bad. So I I

5:16

kinda not a huge fan I

5:18

think for the right person, it can be fine.

5:21

And if your gut's pretty healthy, it can be

5:23

fine. But if you are struggling

5:25

with weight, if you have blood sugar issues, or

5:27

a lot of overgrow through yeast problems,

5:29

it can be problematic because the

5:31

sugar's gonna feed the bad bacteria. Yeah. And on

5:33

top of that, liquid calories are

5:35

some of the most destructive when it comes to

5:37

metabolic health. Sure. Right. So you don't wanna drink

5:39

your calories. And the the as far as

5:41

probiotic beverages, they're they're

5:43

little kind of bottles of probiotics,

5:45

they can be very good and helpful. And I

5:48

think they're not they're not bad to

5:50

try and take. There's and there's a lot of

5:52

probiotics in the refrigerated

5:54

sections of a lot of health food stores,

5:56

grocery stores. And there's a lot to

5:58

choose from, and people are kind of confused about which one

6:00

should I take for what? There are also

6:02

probiotics that are ones that are in

6:04

pharmacies like lactobacillus g

6:07

g or a line that are more kind of

6:09

commercially available probiotics that have been well

6:11

studied for treating different conditions.

6:13

So there's a lot out there. I think

6:16

you know, we have to look carefully at

6:18

what's what's in them and there's a lot of sugar,

6:20

how how long have they been there, what does it say on

6:22

the bottle? a lot of times, you know, you look at the

6:24

bottoms as, you know, fifty billion, you

6:26

know, colony forming units, but then when you

6:28

actually do look at it, they're not they

6:30

degrade very fast. They may not have what they're is

6:32

in there. So quality matters, brand

6:35

matters, how it's stored matters,

6:37

and I think I think that's a little bit of

6:39

a

6:39

kind of crap

6:40

shoot when you go trying to look for this stuff in the

6:42

store. So Mark, take us a little bit deeper.

6:44

Really on the topic of, like, why do we need probiotics?

6:46

And how can they be beneficial? Like, what

6:49

are actually the things that they make a difference

6:51

on when it comes to our health? Yeah.

6:53

So so Thank God,

6:55

we're in this era of microbiome research

6:58

because we know now from many, many

7:00

studies, from many different strains of probiotics,

7:02

all the beneficial effects that they have. And we're

7:05

still learning more and how to develop more and

7:07

better probiotics. So we're growing

7:09

fast in this knowledge base. But

7:11

probiotics essentially are modulators

7:14

of intestinal function. So they

7:16

will change the immune function.

7:18

They'll change the cell signaling communications.

7:21

They'll compete with other bacteria

7:23

that are bad bugs and get rid of those.

7:25

They'll compete with yeast and help reduce

7:27

those by actually helping promote

7:30

more of a good bugs. They they tend

7:32

to be tourists. They don't exactly

7:34

colonize most of the time, although we

7:36

can, so they don't stay forever. But as

7:38

long as you're taking them, they do their work, and then

7:40

they have all these inflammatory things that

7:42

they do that are anti inflammatory. They

7:45

take they they actually help you build

7:47

digestive components

7:49

that actually help creating vitamin

7:52

K and biotin and other nutrients that

7:54

your body needs. They're helping break down foods that

7:56

you can absorb, they're helping create protein

7:58

fatty acids. So they really

8:00

change the whole ecosystem of the gut,

8:02

and it's so important because if your

8:04

inner garden is unhealthy, for most of

8:06

us it is. then then you're more

8:08

likely to get not only digestive symptoms like

8:10

irritable bowel and reflux and inflammatory

8:12

bowel disease, but you're more likely

8:14

to gain weight. at diabetes, have allergies,

8:16

have asthma, have autoimmune diseases, have

8:18

depression, anxiety, ADD, dementia,

8:20

and a lot of other things when your gut's not

8:22

working. So, you know, we're we're we

8:24

do all the things that are really bad for

8:26

our gut. And even our stress is bad

8:29

for our gut, alcohol is bad for our gut. And all

8:31

these drugs that we take are bad for our gut, And

8:33

so we live we live in a culture where we

8:35

really double down on on focusing on

8:37

gut health. And and to date, we

8:39

really haven't had a way to do that. I mean,

8:41

yes, take this probiotic or this

8:43

probiotics, but we've created a multi

8:45

vitamin for the gut, which really puts together

8:47

all the key components, probiotics,

8:49

probiotics, and polyphenols that the gut needs to

8:51

create a healthy inner garden. And

8:53

I think when we get off

8:55

of the processed food, when we get off of the gut

8:58

busting drugs, We start to take

9:00

probiotics and we start to take gut

9:02

healing compounds like that are in gut food

9:04

and in in our multivitamin for the

9:06

gut. we can really start to help

9:07

rejuvenate and rebuild the gut, which then

9:09

has all these downstream consequences of

9:12

improving your immune system, improving your mood,

9:14

improving your metabolism, reducing

9:16

inflammation, in the body, it's really what

9:18

we want to be doing. And when you look at some

9:20

of the data and we have really

9:22

good data on the product

9:25

that's in our our formula

9:27

called Lactispor. Lactispor

9:29

is a score based probiotic.

9:31

And when they did clinical trials, a

9:33

pilot study, but it was a randomized controlled

9:35

trial, They found a forty two

9:37

percent reduction in bloating and irritable bowel,

9:39

a forty seven percent reduction in vomiting,

9:41

a forty three percent reduction in diarrhea,

9:43

and A6D8 percent reduction in

9:45

pain. And even more remarkably, they looked at

9:47

what happened to the brain

9:49

because how is the gut and the brain connect? Well, they are

9:51

very connected through the gut brain connection.

9:53

and depression went down fifty

9:55

seven percent sleep got better fifty

9:57

eight percent dementia symptoms went down twenty

9:59

six percent

9:59

quality of life went up forty seven percent along

10:02

with GI discomfort going down by

10:04

sixty two percent. That's

10:06

amazing just from a probiotic. Right?

10:09

So you know, there are a lot of ones on the

10:11

market out there. This is shelf stable, so you

10:13

don't have to refrigerate it, which is a

10:15

big deal to travel with

10:17

it. And two, It's one that is a

10:19

very unique form called

10:21

Bacil's Criglens that has all these

10:23

benefits. Not all probiotics are the same and

10:25

not all have these benefits, but this one

10:27

is really well studied and actually has these incredible

10:30

benefits. Howard Bauchner: Yeah, and what's great about the

10:32

formula is that it's the levels

10:34

shown in the clinical trial, which will have the

10:36

links to those below, that is the

10:38

same level that's placed inside the formula. Now,

10:40

we're not just here to talk about, you know, the new

10:42

formula that you put together, gut food. You've

10:44

been using robotics as part of your

10:46

protocols that you've written in your book

10:48

for a really long time. And one of the great

10:50

things is that there's a lot of really great

10:52

companies. You know, a lot of we call them the doctors

10:54

brand. Yeah. Right? Medagenics, designs

10:56

for health, thorn, Claire

10:58

Labs, you know, I'm leaving out a few pure encapsulations.

11:01

They have been

11:03

some of the most incredible brands and

11:05

many others in that ecosystem that

11:08

have really touted the benefits in educated

11:10

many practitioners like yourself about

11:12

how different strains of probiotics could be

11:14

used to deal with

11:16

patients who are struggling with various sorts

11:18

of things. Is there an example, you know,

11:20

not that you have to mention a particular product,

11:22

but is there an example sometimes where you might

11:24

bring in a particular strain of a

11:26

probiotic because it's been shown to do really well for a

11:28

patient that has a specific condition. I mean, what

11:30

I like to use is really great is is

11:32

called Saccharomyces Boulardi, which is

11:34

not actually bacteria.

11:36

It's a yeast, but

11:38

it's called off a yeast against yeast.

11:40

But there's a profound effects in

11:42

regulating not only the biofilm in

11:44

your gut controlling east

11:46

over growth, but also

11:48

helping with the deal with chronic gut

11:50

issues like Clostridia, like I had. So

11:52

it's shown that if you take this particular

11:55

strain, it helps reduce symptoms or even

11:57

get rid of clostrenial bacteria, which is

11:59

really great. So I

11:59

really am very focused on which ones

12:02

do what? Some

12:02

of them By the way, if you go to pubmed

12:05

and you type in sacrifice Boulardi, there's

12:07

a ton of research on also diarrhea.

12:10

Yeah. diarrhea. Right? People who get to go to

12:12

India and they get like Delhi belly or they go

12:14

to Mexico and they get pumped as soon as

12:16

revenge or whatever, you know, people are calling

12:18

it. Saccharomyces is

12:20

one of the things that people are given. Always

12:23

travel help. Yeah. Deal with

12:25

some of the stomach upset that comes from just

12:27

being introduced to bacteria that they may not typically

12:29

be introduced and absolutely. And then there's, you know, and

12:31

there's different bacteria for different things, for example,

12:33

for babies. You know, often

12:35

there's a particular

12:36

bacteria called Bifido Bacteria,

12:38

it's really important for immune development.

12:41

And it's absent in most babies

12:43

because the mothers have had an antibiotic

12:45

sometime in their life and wipe that out or they're

12:47

born by C section. And

12:49

the twenty five

12:49

percent of calories that's in breast milk that's not

12:52

digestible by babies is there to feed

12:54

this particular bacteria and others

12:56

called beef with a bacterium in Phantas. And

12:58

if you have low levels, it's a big problem. So you can

13:00

actually give the baby probiotics

13:02

when they're born in the first one hundred

13:04

days to help them colonize with

13:06

a bit of a bacteremia in frontis and and avoid

13:08

the autoimmunity, the allergy, the eczema,

13:10

and all these other downstream things that are

13:12

gonna happen if you don't have this important bacteria.

13:15

that's just another example of how different strains

13:17

do different things. Yeah. And, you know, just

13:19

a little shout out. They were on your podcast

13:21

previously, the name of the company that is Vivo.

13:24

Vivo. And then there's, you know, any

13:26

changing space -- Yeah. -- stuff in the

13:28

space. And there's plenty of others. There's our

13:30

friends, Kieran, at Microbiome Labs,

13:32

There's some friends that you're connected with, that seed that

13:34

are also doing some amazing things. It really does

13:36

feel like we're in this sort of golden age of

13:38

people really starting to put the emphasis about

13:41

on on probiotics and it's it's

13:43

less about the the competition between all these

13:45

different people and more about the awareness --

13:47

Yeah. -- because we need a lot of different

13:49

solutions for people at different

13:51

levels. And we may be getting to a point soon where we

13:53

get personalized probiotics where -- I'd be very --

13:55

look at your microbiome and look at what's

13:57

there, what's not there, and I do this now. I say, oh, you don't

13:59

have enough of this or that, so I'm gonna fix this

14:01

for that. So I do that, but we're gonna

14:03

be more sophisticated about it. and

14:05

and be able to make custom probiotics for people. And

14:07

you talked about this a little bit before, but, you know,

14:09

there's so many Instagram ads and TikTok

14:11

ads that I get, which are like, hey, like, we'll tell

14:13

you exactly the diet and the probiotics to

14:15

take based on your stool. So send in your

14:17

stool, and let's tell us, you chatted a little bit

14:19

about this in the past, but just talk about how

14:21

we're getting there but maybe Yeah. We're getting that. I

14:23

think they sometimes overreach and under

14:25

over promising and under delivering on some of these

14:28

tests, and they they don't take in the context of

14:30

patients overall health. the other

14:32

parts of their digestive function. They just

14:34

look at the actual bacteria and

14:36

they make all these conclusions based on

14:38

the science. But that that can

14:40

be a lot of noise too and not actually helpful

14:42

for people. So I think I think it's important

14:44

to learn about yourself to do the

14:46

testing But, you know, take away the grain of salt, a lot

14:48

of recommendations that are happening now. You wanna

14:50

try stuff and see how it works, but you don't wanna

14:52

think of it as the gospel. one of the

14:54

things we wanna chat about when it comes to

14:56

eating probiotic rich foods, which also

14:58

includes some probiotics in there as well. We'll

15:00

do a whole another episode on probiotics.

15:02

So the research shows that eating a high

15:05

fermented food diet increases diversity

15:07

in the microbiome and decreases

15:09

inflammatory markers. So the question is,

15:11

what are some examples of some of the top

15:14

fermented foods that many people can

15:16

include on a daily basis to

15:18

tap into some of these benefits that the research

15:20

is showing. Howard Bauchner: Absolutely. I think

15:22

I think, you know, historically, we

15:24

didn't have refrigerators. And

15:28

as a species, we really got good

15:30

at preserving food. And

15:33

We did that through making cheese

15:35

or through drying meat

15:37

or through creating fermented foods. And these

15:39

cultures have had these for thousands of

15:41

years, which by the way is another form of

15:43

cooking.

15:44

yeah Yeah.

15:44

Exactly. So sour crowd, kimchi,

15:48

pickles, miso, nato,

15:51

tempeh, keifer,

15:53

yogurt. These are all forms

15:56

of bacterially generated

15:59

food substances that

16:01

actually are full of these beneficial compounds.

16:04

And and a great study. I love this fun study.

16:06

I was looking at Polish women. So they eat

16:08

about thirty pounds of sauerkraut a year,

16:10

which is, like, about a pound almost a

16:12

pound a week. Right? A lot of it's

16:14

overcrowded. And what's

16:16

amazing is when they move from Poland to

16:18

America, and they

16:20

eat American diet, their risk of breast cancer

16:22

goes way up whereas with the sauerkraut eating in

16:24

Poland, they have very low rates of breast

16:26

cancer. Interesting. And the same relation

16:28

study? Yes. But the is the

16:30

same is true. You look across the board at

16:32

longevity zones. When people leave

16:34

those longevity zones, like in Japan, they

16:36

come to America. they get the same rates

16:38

of disease as Americans. So it's really it's

16:40

not so much your genes as the environment.

16:43

And so, fermented foods

16:45

play a big role in our keeping a microbiome

16:47

healthy and regulating all sorts of things from

16:49

cancer to heart disease to obesity,

16:51

diabetes, and mood disorders. It's kind of

16:53

cool. So I think if you can

16:55

tolerate them, it's fine. If you have, for

16:57

example, histamine problems or if

16:59

you have a ton of yeast overgrowth, or

17:01

really bad dysbiosis, it can be

17:03

a little bit challenging to eat those

17:06

foods, but I would include those on a

17:08

regular basis. Which ones do you include on

17:10

a regular basis when it comes to those

17:12

first foods that are Oh, I like I like

17:14

miso. I like I like sauerkraut.

17:16

I like tepe.

17:18

And those are my

17:21

favorites. Did you do any kefir or I

17:23

like I like sheep or goat yogurt,

17:25

but I don't need it that

17:27

much. And is it in the yogurt form? because when

17:29

you go to, like, whole foods, for example,

17:31

they'll have, like, go and cheap yogurt,

17:33

and then they'll also separately in

17:35

these larger bottles, have, like, go for Keefer. Yeah.

17:38

So there's yogurt and then there's

17:40

Keefer. Do you choose one or the other? I like

17:42

yogurt. Keefer's liquidy. Yeah.

17:44

I mean, they're both fine. Okay. There's a brand that I've

17:46

been eating a lot. No affiliation with them. It's called

17:49

Redwood Hill Farm, and I do

17:51

not consume dairy on a regular basis

17:53

because I always have dairy,

17:55

and I break out. Yeah. I break out it just immediately,

17:57

but I've been having this Redwood Hill

17:59

farm goat milky fur. They have whole foods

18:02

other places. It's

18:03

great. Yep. Get the one that's unsweetened.

18:06

And the

18:06

goat milk is important because it's a two casing,

18:08

which is what what's not causing all

18:10

the inflammation. The a one casing was causing

18:13

your pimples. Totally. And I don't break

18:15

out. I feel good. I feel like my gut health is

18:17

stronger than ever before. So just an

18:19

example of we'll be writing a

18:21

newsletter on this whole topic. So, typically, Mark,

18:23

people are not making these products,

18:25

although you could. And there's daughter makes them. I wonder

18:27

how she got a whole thing and kimchi being

18:29

making it. Well, maybe we could all

18:31

buy from her, but she's too busy being in medical

18:33

school. So I don't think she'll have time for

18:35

that. But, typically, people are not

18:37

gonna make them. and they're

18:38

gonna get them from the store. Just a couple of odds

18:41

and ends that you wanna make sure, just like the

18:43

kombucha, you know, what do you wanna make

18:45

sure that people are looking out for when they're buying

18:47

some of these things mean, I wouldn't they're buying

18:49

fermenters, I would stick with really

18:51

traditionally made fermented

18:53

foods. Pickles, sauerkraut, miso,

18:56

kimchi, Things have been around and

18:58

been done for thousands of

19:00

years, tempeh, natto.

19:02

All those

19:02

are really wonderful to include in your diet

19:04

and see what you like and what you enjoy. So,

19:07

Mark, another thing that I found super fascinating about

19:09

fermented foods that I haven't said in my show notes

19:11

here is that fermented foods are shown

19:13

to reduce markers like intraleukin six,

19:15

which is an inflammatory cytokine. So

19:18

break that down, what are inflammatory cytokines,

19:20

and how is it, and what mechanisms

19:22

that you could guess that fermented foods would play in

19:24

that would reduce the overall inflammation in

19:26

the body. Yeah. Yeah. So so

19:29

there's all

19:29

cytokines we've heard about in the

19:31

face

19:31

of COVID in the cytokine storm,

19:34

which kills people. Essentially,

19:36

it's a flood of these inflammatory molecules.

19:38

And cytokines are the messenger molecules of

19:40

your immune system. And they have all kinds

19:42

of names, one of them are class, them are

19:44

called interleukins, and there's many, many different kinds.

19:47

Some are anti inflammatory, some

19:49

are inflammatory. Intralukin six

19:51

particularly is a very common one. It's

19:53

very high in belly fat and visceral

19:55

fat, abdominal fat. It's highly

19:57

correlated with heart disease dementia, cancer,

19:59

obesity, diabetes, and it's

20:02

really driven off of a state

20:04

of low grade inflammation that

20:06

comes from

20:07

this visceral or belly fat on fire.

20:09

The butyl thing about or

20:12

understanding

20:12

about the relationship between

20:15

the microbiome and

20:17

our belly fat and our

20:20

metabolism is that it's

20:22

mediated through changes

20:24

in the microbiome that drive inflammation.

20:26

And we talked about earlier the metabolic endotoxinia,

20:28

the basic toxins in your gut

20:30

that leak across is start to trigger immune

20:33

responses. And the immune responses then

20:35

generate a

20:35

cascade of responses that

20:38

increases certain cytokines like

20:40

interleukin six. So if you have a bad gut, if

20:42

you have a leaky gut, if you're eating the wrong

20:44

foods, you're gonna get higher into loop and six, which

20:46

is gonna, you know, create more in

20:48

some resistant and create more weight gain,

20:50

create more belly fat, an ambitious

20:52

cycle. So the beautiful thing about

20:54

fermented foods is that they can help

20:56

reduce this process by normalizing gut function, by

20:59

optimizing the gut in different ways, through

21:01

optimizing healthy bacteria,

21:03

reducing the bad bugs, which then reduces

21:05

the the leakiness of the gut, which then

21:08

further limits the inflammatory cascade

21:10

that results as a result of a leaky gut.

21:12

So it's really, you know, kind of a beautiful

21:14

story about how your microbiome plays a

21:16

role in your immune system plays a role in

21:18

your weight, and and how that all connects

21:21

to eating the right foods and not eating your

21:23

own foods. Hey,

21:24

everyone. It's doctor Mark. If I've learned one thing during

21:26

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your

22:48

cart. If somebody is

22:50

struggling with things like yeast

22:52

overgrowth or histamine intolerance, are

22:55

those two examples and are there any others of

22:57

where fermented foods, you know, because

22:59

we read the articles or we read the

23:01

headlines. Yeah. Sure. Okay. This food is good

23:03

for everybody. Yeah. But if somebody's reacting to

23:06

fermented foods, one What could

23:08

that possibly be an indication of?

23:10

And number two, is there anything they should be

23:12

thinking about doing? Yeah.

23:14

So a circulating fermented foods in their stomach

23:16

just go crazy and blow up, and they feel

23:18

horrible. And that's because there's something

23:20

going wrong in there. Something's rotten in Denmark

23:22

as Shakespeare used to say. So

23:24

we have often bad bugs growing in the unused

23:26

silver growth. We have something called

23:28

CFO or small intestinal fungal over

23:30

growth or Cboe, small

23:32

intestinal bacterial over growth. that

23:34

means that these bugs have migrated into small intestine. You

23:36

start putting foods in there and it starts

23:38

battling. You start to war with the good bugs and

23:40

the bad bugs. and you get

23:42

all these

23:43

dangerous things that start to happen, which

23:46

is more bloating, more gas production, more

23:48

discomfort, more GI symptoms.

23:50

So while fermented foods are good,

23:52

they're good in the right person because

23:54

your guts not sorted and

23:56

not called the weeding feeding program. If

23:58

you haven't done the weeding and you got a lot

23:59

of bad bugs in there, you start getting fermented foods

24:02

you're having problem. So you have yeast

24:04

overgrowth if you have. small intestinal bacterial

24:06

growth. If you have histamine intolerance, you should

24:08

be very careful. So if you don't react well to the

24:10

fermented foods, it

24:12

doesn't mean fermented foods are bad for you. It

24:14

means there's something wrong with your gut, find it

24:16

and fix it. And can you

24:18

still take a probiotic for instance and get

24:20

the benefits because it's not exactly like there's a

24:22

clear test to say like you have to go do the

24:24

weeding first unless sometimes you're working with

24:26

a functional medicine doctor, they can help you interpret it.

24:28

Sure. So in that instance, can you

24:30

still take. Right? If you want to get some of the

24:32

benefits, can you take things like probiotics? And

24:34

that could be one way if you're

24:36

reacting to fermented foods to still get the benefits

24:38

of the bacteria that you'd be Yes. I

24:40

mean, you have to be careful if you have a tremendous amount

24:42

of bacterial liver growth and you take

24:45

probiotics, you can get worse just like with

24:47

fermented foods. But the thing

24:49

is beautiful. you can start slowly and

24:51

then build up and it sort of kind of win

24:53

the war over time. I I didn't really like to

24:55

do this to weeding first, but you can actually start

24:57

to seed and see how that works. in a

24:59

way that actually is a low dose initially

25:01

and then you start to build up on the dose and

25:03

people can generally tolerate it. But it's all

25:05

often important to treat the underlying issues

25:08

first. So, Mark, whether we're introducing fermented foods or not, and I hope that

25:10

a lot of people are. Right? Because it's a smaller part

25:12

of the population that's gonna

25:15

have reactions of fermented foods needs to go on a little bit

25:17

more aggressive protocol maybe with a practitioner.

25:19

But whether we're about to introduce more

25:21

fermented foods or start to have them on a more

25:23

frequent basis or We're getting

25:25

ready to include like a probiotic, a high

25:27

quality probiotic into our diet. There are things

25:29

that we can do to get our body and our

25:31

gut, especially in the best shape

25:33

to benefit from those things. So what are some of those

25:35

lifestyle recommendations? Only thing about when you

25:37

when you plant the soil, plant

25:40

the seed the soil, you wanna prepare

25:42

the soil. unless you're using tons of

25:44

fertilizer and pesticides and chemicals that you don't

25:46

wanna do. So how do you prepare the soil

25:48

to plant a seed? So you have to

25:50

do the same thing for

25:52

your gut just as you're gonna start your

25:54

garden, you get rid of all the weeds, and you dig it up,

25:56

and you make the soil nice, you have to do the same

25:58

with your gut, and that can be done through herbs,

25:59

just on vacations, if you have bacterial overgrowth, fungal overgrowth

26:02

parasites, that's what we call the weeding

26:04

phase. The other part of the weeding phase is weeding

26:06

out foods that cause problems because if

26:08

you're taking probiotics, but you're still eating kind of junk

26:10

food and your sugar and your eating sodas and

26:12

having lots of gluten and your guts of

26:14

mess, it's not gonna work as well. So the

26:16

key is to do a gut healthy diet,

26:18

which is essentially the vegan diet

26:20

or the tendered detox diet, things I've written a

26:22

lot about. then actually you can

26:24

start to add these foods in because your diet's gonna

26:26

start to change the

26:28

garden very quickly. It's gonna start to

26:30

get rid of the bad bugs. fertilize

26:32

the good bugs, and then the probiotics tend to

26:34

work better. So it's much better to actually

26:36

take the probiotics in the context of a

26:39

healthy diet. than to try to make up for a healthy diet by

26:41

eating probiotics. Yeah. because sometimes

26:43

the approach with the modern world of supplementation,

26:45

this always happens, is that there's this

26:47

feeling that oh, this

26:49

is just gonna fix everything and I can just go

26:51

and continue to live the lifestyle that I was

26:53

living previously. But your

26:55

food is always so much more of

26:57

an impact than anything else that's out there.

26:59

So cleaning it up over a period of

27:01

time. important. It's so key. So

27:03

Mark, when it comes to shopping

27:05

for probiotics, what are some of the things that people can be looking

27:07

for when choosing the right

27:09

probiotic? I mean, it's it's difficult because it's

27:11

kind of a wild west out there, and the regulations

27:13

are really on on not

27:15

matching the need. And so the bottle might

27:17

say fifty billion units, but there might

27:19

be five, or it might say there's these

27:21

strains of bacteria, but they might

27:23

have put them in the in the manufacturing, but by the time that you're on

27:26

the shelf, they're not there. Or, you know,

27:28

the the the cold chain might

27:30

be broken, so probiotics

27:32

that are kept cold, aren't cold, and they degrade

27:34

over time. So you gotta really be careful, and

27:36

then you gotta know which probiotics. So there's

27:38

a bit of a science to it.

27:40

with that said, there are some really good companies out there that are pretty

27:42

reliable that test their products aggressively. We mentioned

27:44

a bunch of them being encapsulations, aerogenics,

27:48

there's others that

27:50

are quite good for Xiamen gene. There's a

27:52

lot of good products that we use in the medical space.

27:54

So I tend to focus on those.

27:56

And I think that when

28:00

people are choosing, they should really be looking at,

28:02

you know, where is it coming from? Who's a

28:04

manufacturer? What's the process?

28:06

What's their quality control measures?

28:08

Do they test? And how do they maintain

28:10

shelf stability, if it's shelf stable product,

28:12

if it's frozen, what was the cold chain like? So you gotta kinda

28:14

do a little bit of due diligence. And

28:16

I think then you can kinda come up with you know,

28:18

probiotics are for different things. Like I said, it's not like there's

28:20

it's not like just one size fits all.

28:22

So different probiotics have different benefits

28:24

for different people at different times.

28:26

just like different drugs. So it's

28:29

it's gonna be that personalized. So there

28:31

are some general probiotics you take like

28:33

lactobacillus and bifurcationobacterium and

28:35

others. but there's a lot of strains and things that are

28:37

not coming out that are a more

28:39

research based strains. So it depends on what you're dealing

28:41

with if you're dealing with immune issues or

28:43

hormonal issues or brain issues. I mean, there's probiotics for depression

28:46

now, for blood sugar, for all

28:48

kinds of stuff. I just literally,

28:50

I'm gonna be doing an Instagram live

28:52

with a famous actress

28:54

who had diabetes and started taking up

28:56

a particular probiotic that helped balance

28:58

her blood sugar. And I've seen this in other patients

29:00

when they get the gut healthy, their blood sugar

29:03

better. So there's really very much a future of customized

29:05

and personalized probiotics. As

29:07

a nutritional scientist, I

29:08

think that this part

29:11

of the

29:12

research and part of the story is probably what

29:14

was most impactful

29:17

to me when I was learning about this

29:20

topic. and the research that was coming out of UC

29:22

Davis and a team of researchers that

29:24

were using human milk

29:27

as an example of

29:29

food that

29:31

in its perfect form.

29:34

Because if you think about it,

29:36

human breast milk has not been

29:38

impacted by mass industrialization

29:40

and we haven't really toyed with

29:42

it too much. It's Actually, the pressure

29:44

on human milk is actually

29:46

from human evolution, and it really the

29:48

body is constantly dialing

29:51

in human breast milk to be

29:53

exactly what the baby needs

29:55

to to thrive and grow in the first six

29:57

months of life. So, this team of

29:59

researchers at UC Davis

29:59

at the Foodstore Health Institute said,

30:02

Well, let's dissect and analyze

30:04

every aspect of human milk.

30:06

And let's see what's there, and we'll use that as

30:08

a template for what

30:09

babies are supposed to be

30:12

consuming. And

30:12

everything was there that you would expect.

30:15

The lipids, the protein, lactose,

30:17

the water, the micronutrients, the

30:19

macronutrients were there. What was

30:21

really

30:21

fascinating and you touched upon it is

30:23

fifteen percent of the nutrients in breast

30:26

milk. where these complex carbohydrates, called

30:28

human milk oligosaccharides, or HMOs,

30:30

for short, that were

30:32

completely indigestible by the

30:34

baby, which makes absolutely no

30:38

sense that human milk, which

30:40

is very metabolically taxing

30:42

for the mom to make, would have

30:44

fifteen percent of nutrients that

30:46

completely were not use utilizable

30:48

or indigestible by the baby until

30:50

they figure it out that it's food for

30:53

be in fairness in the baby's intestine. So

30:55

then you go back to kind of our

30:57

day in the life of a baby. It's

30:59

a it's a rough twenty four hours, but

31:01

they, you know, they they get through it. And

31:03

the baby is born. They're exposed to moms

31:05

got microbes. Being a

31:07

fan is hopefully sets up camp

31:09

in babies intestine and it needs

31:12

food too. So human milk

31:14

starts coming into the

31:16

intestine and it

31:18

feeds the baby, and it feeds being

31:20

fanta's. And then all of a

31:22

sudden, those fifteen percent of nutrients

31:24

in human milk are no longer locked

31:26

up in these complex carbohydrates, the

31:28

enfantas is utilizing them for

31:30

fuel and turning them into something that

31:32

the baby can actually use.

31:34

and that's the short chain fatty

31:36

acids called lactate and acetate and

31:39

others. And those are actually signaling

31:41

molecules they're actually fuel

31:43

for the growing colonocytes, the intestinal

31:45

cells as the baby is rapidly developing.

31:47

They are

31:50

changing the pH of the

31:52

baby's intestine so

31:54

that pathogenic or bad

31:56

bacteria can't thrive. creating

31:58

this protective environment

31:59

in the infant's diet.

32:03

It's such a beautiful story

32:05

that nature has designed.

32:07

And so when baby has

32:09

the infantus in their gut and they're consuming

32:12

HMOs, preferably from a breast

32:14

milk, then it sets up a protective

32:16

environment where pathogens can't

32:18

grow. The enfantas is getting everything it

32:20

needs, babies getting one hundred percent of the

32:22

nutrients in smoke. And

32:23

it's a very calm,

32:27

low

32:27

inflammation, protective environment

32:30

in baby's gut. Now if you can

32:33

imagine the opposite scenario,

32:35

which be in Phantas is not in baby's

32:38

gut, HMOs are coming in through

32:40

the diet completely locked

32:42

up and not utilizable

32:44

by the baby.

32:45

Instead, pathogens are growing because

32:48

the pH of the colon is

32:50

in their perfect zone, which

32:52

has not -- hasn't

32:54

been curated by B and Phantus. And

32:56

those HMOs are actually being

32:58

excreted in large

32:58

amounts in baby stool. Mhmm. So

33:00

what we see is

33:01

we see babies that are missing being scientists

33:04

with eight

33:04

five to five to eight to

33:06

ten watery schools per day. Those are they're

33:09

just Wow. How HMOs -- Wow. -- and if you think

33:11

about it, that's what pediatricians

33:12

have been telling us moms for

33:14

a long time. If you have a breastfed baby, expect

33:16

five to ten watery schools per day.

33:18

But I'm

33:19

not sure that that is actually what

33:21

we're striving for. There are clinical

33:24

studies that we've been that we've

33:26

conducted. We see that when babies do have

33:28

BN Phantists, and they are

33:30

utilizing HMOs.

33:31

They stop

33:32

kind of

33:33

pooping them out, dumping them out into the stool.

33:35

They're no longer in the diaper, and

33:38

Ladies are accessing one

33:40

hundred percent of the nutrients and benefits of

33:42

fresh milk. Now you -- Yes. -- ask

33:44

me about formula. Yeah.

33:47

All babies need to be fed.

33:49

All babies. And if you and

33:51

if a baby is not getting breast milk, formula

33:53

is the next best option. And we

33:56

are big advocates of that is

33:58

best. However, we

33:59

know from a nutritional

34:01

composition perspective, there are

34:04

big differences between breast milk and

34:06

formula. And formula companies are working very hard to

34:08

try to get formula as close to breast

34:10

milk as possible. Yeah. There are

34:11

there's a long way to go. in a

34:13

long way. There's a long way to go. And

34:16

-- Yeah. -- HMOs

34:17

in formula, although they do have them on mid

34:19

some of the labels,

34:22

contains HMOs, they

34:23

are not nearly at the at the concentration

34:25

of breast milk

34:25

nor are they at

34:28

the composition of in

34:30

milk.

34:30

So it is it is

34:32

a hat tip to the idea

34:34

that there are HMOs in formulas.

34:36

window dressing. It's good

34:38

marketing. it is it indeed. Yeah. So I would

34:40

say that babies

34:42

exposed to antibiotics, babies

34:43

born by

34:46

C section and babies that are receiving formula, they're

34:48

not going to create this high

34:50

B and Fantis protective environment

34:52

in their gut, and

34:54

they will that is where

34:56

we

34:56

start to see the high levels

34:57

of inflammation in the gut. And then

34:59

the longer term effects,

35:02

negative

35:02

health effects as baby

35:04

grows. Absolutely.

35:04

Because, you know, the baby's immune system when it's born is not developed. And

35:06

the first year is critical for its

35:08

development, and it develops the immune system by

35:10

sampling in the environment that the food

35:14

is eating. and through the microbes that are in there. And when those microbes

35:16

are off or out of balance, it's

35:18

gonna drive lifelong changes

35:20

that are

35:22

often challenging. And I

35:24

as a functional medicine doctor, I see this

35:26

very often. You know, what's the story? Baby

35:28

borne by C section. Given antibiotics, the

35:30

first year of the life, lots of ear infection, sore

35:32

throat, Maybe then they get some eczema and diaper rash, and they get asthma,

35:34

and then they get allergies, and they

35:36

get out immunity, and they just you

35:39

see this pattern over and over and you

35:41

start to pay attention to it. So when I take

35:43

a patient's history, I start with the mother's health

35:45

before birth and I go all the way through to the timeline

35:47

of what's going on. The study I read that was so

35:50

striking to me that just put this in bold

35:52

relief was a study where they

35:54

compared the microbiome and the short

35:56

chain fatty acids that

35:58

are produced with babies who

35:59

are breastfed versus formula fed.

36:02

Mhmm. Now, you mentioned a few of

36:04

them, but one of the

36:06

most critical short chain fats is

36:08

something called butyrate. and it regulates immunity,

36:10

cancer, it feeds the colon, it's so

36:12

critical. It's anti inflammatory, it's

36:14

used to

36:16

treat kline is. I mean, it's

36:18

quite an amazing molecule. And it's produced by the bacteria, the

36:21

right bacteria, digesting justin

36:24

the starch, the fiber.

36:25

Right? And

36:26

in this study, they looked at the

36:28

kinds of short chain fatty acids that are

36:31

produced depending on what you're eating if it's formula

36:33

or breast milk. The breast

36:35

milk babies all had high

36:37

levels of butter which is what

36:40

you want. The formulofib babies had high levels of

36:42

another short chain fat called propionic

36:46

acid. Now, It's

36:48

a big medical word. What does it mean? It's one of the short chain fats,

36:50

but it turns out that this is very

36:52

neuroactive in a bad way.

36:55

So they are able to induce autism in animal models

36:58

by giving them

37:00

propionic acid. And guess what it's also

37:02

used for. It's a

37:04

preservative used in

37:06

flour. So

37:07

anybody eating wheat in

37:09

this country? unless you know for sure that the company is organic and

37:11

this and that and it doesn't put anything in

37:14

it. They put propionic acid in

37:16

which leads to behavioral

37:18

issues and mood issues,

37:20

attention issues, and like I said, animal

37:22

studies that can induce autism. That's

37:24

terrifying to me. And so

37:26

I I really think that, you know, we should

37:28

be looking at children's microbiomes.

37:30

We should be looking at their poop. We can measure

37:32

strength. I do this every day in my practice. I measure

37:34

a short chain fatty acids. I look at the

37:36

types of them. I look at the

37:38

kinds of bacteria there. And it's quite amazing to see how many people have disordered

37:40

the microbials. And we don't even

37:42

think about it. As physicians, we

37:46

basically treat the downstream problems and not the gut. What you're talking

37:48

about is going way upstream, way

37:50

back to day one of a baby slide.

37:53

Maybe even I mean, I read a study years

37:55

ago where they gave the mothers a probiotic

37:57

and then the babies and even the mothers a

37:59

probiotic helped the baby actually have less

38:02

asthma and eczema and allergies.

38:04

Essentially, if you don't have

38:06

this as a mother in your system and you

38:08

don't pass it

38:10

on to your may be. The may be doesn't have it. The baby

38:12

doesn't get the ability even to use the

38:14

autosaccharides. And so with all

38:16

these problems, it

38:18

creates a pretty bad situation long term for the baby.

38:21

So instead, what's

38:23

growing there are we

38:25

call them potentially pathogenic bacteria. It's not like

38:28

getting E. coli or

38:30

Semonella or Shigella or something is horrible, but

38:32

it's this

38:34

imbalance in things like Klebsiella and pseudomonas and

38:36

and enterococcus and all these weird

38:38

bugs that can be

38:40

potentially infectious. that

38:42

are irritating. And they they they're

38:44

critical to get rid of

38:46

or to change the environment in there because

38:48

it'll program the body for life.

38:50

So talk about how important to to have this

38:52

early in life and what the consequences of

38:55

not having it are

38:58

when these other bugs tend to overgrow

39:00

and lead to all these

39:02

secondary problems down the road, not just call

39:05

it and diaper rash and fussiness and little diarrhea as a baby. Who

39:07

cares? Okay. The baby's miserable. You're miserable for the first year,

39:10

it'll get better. That's not the real problem. The real

39:12

problem is when I started off this webinar with which is

39:14

talking about

39:16

this pandemic of inflammatory adult diseases that start

39:18

in childhood, in infancy. So

39:20

can you talk a little bit about that? And what

39:22

happens with all these bed bugs? And what

39:24

do they do? Yes.

39:27

So one thing

39:29

that is paramount to us

39:31

here

39:31

at at the

39:34

Avivo team is that

39:36

we we

39:37

insist that science

39:40

leads leave the

39:41

way for what we do here and where we

39:43

go and what we publish

39:45

and what we bring forth

39:47

for people to be able to use and the products

39:49

that we make. I would say that the

39:51

vast majority of the probiotic industry

39:54

kind of blouses over the rigorous

39:56

clinical science that needs to take place in

39:58

order in order to

39:59

to really be able to say, we

40:02

understand what's happening

40:02

in the gut microbiome. Here's a

40:05

probiotic product that's going to address

40:07

that problem. And here are the clinical outcomes

40:10

that are -- that you can

40:12

expect. That is a

40:14

-- the rigor that is

40:16

I think is lost in the majority

40:18

of probiotic products that are out on the

40:20

market today. Our group, our

40:22

team, which is, as I mentioned,

40:25

spent out from UC Davis in the Foodstore

40:27

Health Institute. We set out

40:29

to say, when my

40:31

let's let Science

40:32

Drive, the direction that we are going to go, and

40:34

let's look systematically at what do babies

40:36

look like if we don't do anything, and

40:39

we just look at a population

40:41

of babies born today in the

40:43

Davis, California area,

40:46

breastfed babies. What does

40:48

it look like if we actually

40:50

give being phantas back to them, feed them in vivo every

40:53

day, and what does that do not only to

40:55

the amount of being phantas in the baby's

40:57

intestine, but to the abundance

41:00

of the other pathogenic

41:01

bacteria that went there in the absence

41:03

of the enfantas. Mhmm. So that is what

41:05

over the last five

41:08

years close to twenty different clinical publications

41:10

that we've been able to

41:12

publish in peer reviewed journals have shown

41:16

that when a baby is missing B and Fantis in their intestine,

41:18

whether that's because of antibiotics

41:20

or C section, whatever reason,

41:24

there is instead a an a almost

41:28

full composition of

41:29

what

41:29

you mentioned

41:32

as potentially pathogenic bacteria. And

41:34

to your point,

41:34

I want to make sure that we're clear,

41:37

that doesn't mean over infection. That

41:40

means kind of a quiet

41:44

but

41:45

abundant composition of

41:47

the infected gut microbiome that you

41:49

can't really see from the outside. of

41:51

pathogenic bacteria setting up

41:54

shop in the baby's gut microbiome,

41:56

including staff, strap, klebsiella,

41:58

Kostrudia, as you

41:59

were mentioning, and they are causing inflammation in the

42:02

infant gut. What we

42:04

don't want to do is jump on the

42:06

bandwagon, the the microbiome

42:08

probiotic bandwagon

42:10

overinterpret or hype over over

42:12

hype any data that we have so far

42:14

and say, just spend a lot of money

42:16

on probiotics and you'll be fine. We

42:18

will not do that. as a team

42:20

and as a as a company. So what we've done is we've

42:23

gone through and said, not only

42:25

can you restore the

42:28

Enfantas to the infant gut through feeding a

42:29

vivo to babies. We were able to

42:32

answer

42:32

that definitively in

42:34

one of our early publications where we showed

42:36

a complete

42:38

restoration of the enfantas to babies who

42:40

are fedevivo. But then we looked

42:42

at the composition of the enven gut, and

42:44

can we reduce those pept genic bacteria,

42:46

yes, we can. To up to eighty

42:48

percent reduction of those pathogenic bacteria.

42:51

Then if you

42:52

do that, can we see a reduction in the

42:54

inflammation? markers of inflammation?

42:56

Can we see a reduction in antibiotic

42:58

resistant genes? Can we see

43:00

a reduction in many other

43:03

of the of the markers that show that a baby is either

43:05

on a path toward autoimmune

43:07

and autoimmune inflammatory

43:09

diseases or not. And that's really

43:12

what we are still on

43:14

this journey. I would say collectively, not just

43:16

the

43:16

Avivo team, but the field of

43:18

microbiome science have to

43:20

be able to follow those kids out

43:22

and do the clinical studies to be able

43:24

to definitively

43:25

show that

43:28

you get prevention

43:28

or treatment of any

43:30

of those diseases that you mentioned. We're not

43:32

there yet, but we have

43:36

many very

43:36

large clinical studies ongoing right now

43:38

because there is enough

43:40

early data, there's enough

43:43

early basic science that

43:45

shows we believe that this is exactly

43:47

what's happening. We're reducing the inflammation.

43:49

We're reducing those pathogenic bacteria

43:51

by feeding a vivo And now we're going to

43:53

systematically go through and say, what conditions can we prevent in

43:55

those babies going forward? Howard Bauchner:

43:57

Well, we do know from

43:58

the field and the science in

43:59

general that if you lack this

44:02

bacteria more likely to have

44:04

allergies, type one diabetes,

44:06

obesity. We know that you literally

44:08

can transplant the poop

44:10

out of thin

44:10

mouse into a fat mouse and the fat mouse will lose weight independent

44:12

of its calorie intake. Like,

44:15

that should

44:15

shock you. I

44:17

wrote about that in in a book I wrote a number of years

44:20

ago. I think the Blood Cheers Solution, we've known this

44:22

for a long time. Like, this is not a new

44:24

new news. and and

44:26

yet it just has not reached medical

44:28

practice. And to me, it seems

44:30

like the the, you know, the better

44:32

part of of our judgment should

44:34

be to give every

44:36

baby this probiotic at birth

44:38

because if ninety percent are

44:40

deficient, I mean, yes, we can test

44:42

everybody, but it's benign,

44:44

it's safe. There's really no

44:46

downside except the cost. And it seems

44:48

like something that would pay for

44:51

itself and spades in terms of the reduction in all these secondary conditions later

44:53

on, such as obesity related

44:55

conditions, allergies, autoimmunity,

44:57

and so forth. it just seems

44:59

like a no brainer to me. I don't know why we're

45:01

not doing it, but hopefully you guys can get the

45:04

research and we can, you know, get this

45:06

reimbursed by insurance and we

45:08

can actually the changes that need to

45:10

happen, because as a doctor, the pandemic of diseases and

45:12

kids, it's just scary to me,

45:14

like, with obesity issues, the allergies

45:17

has, but the immunity, the innate need, the autism.

45:19

I mean, these are diseases of

45:22

inflammation that often start in the

45:24

gut. So so

45:27

how how how do

45:29

they actually work? because, you

45:30

know, when when we think about

45:32

probiotics as a as a as

45:35

an adult probiotic doctor. I treat a lot of kids

45:37

too, but we we really understand that

45:40

these probiotics don't take our

45:42

precedents, that they don't

45:44

colonize, that they're sort of like tourists. They they travel through. They economy

45:46

down there. They have influence on what's happening.

45:48

But, like, if you take some probiotic

45:50

that you get next door, even if it's a good

45:54

one, it doesn't necessarily stay, so you have

45:56

to keep taking it. Tell

45:58

us about how unique this

45:59

particular probiotic is in its ability

46:02

to colonize

46:04

the infant gut, which is really remarkable to me. Howard Bauchner:

46:06

It is remarkable. And

46:08

I think to your

46:10

point, the majority

46:12

of the research and the focus and the effort

46:15

and the dollars on microbiome

46:17

research has been focused

46:20

on adults. today

46:20

to to date. Babies are so

46:22

unique. And if you think about

46:25

the

46:25

life span or the

46:28

life cycle, there's

46:29

only a very, very

46:31

small period of time where we have a

46:33

single food source. Because as soon as you

46:36

turn

46:36

four to six months, People

46:38

are getting

46:38

little bites of everything on

46:41

the adult's plate to the

46:42

baby, and that's great. That's

46:45

important. That's part of this weaning

46:47

process. And for the rest of your life, you have a varied diet

46:49

with tons of different plant fibers, tons

46:51

of different fiber coming from

46:54

all different sources.

46:56

But in that first, I'd say, let's

46:58

call it four

46:59

months. When you have a single food

47:01

source, you have a single fiber

47:03

source, as well. Mhmm.

47:04

So as we mentioned, the

47:06

human breast milk, the human milk oligosaccharides,

47:08

let's think of those as the fiber

47:10

in breast milk. and they are very

47:13

specific to B

47:16

infantis. So B infantis is the only

47:18

bacteria that's been found to be able

47:20

to digest all of the HMOs

47:22

in babies. And, sorry, in in personal. So

47:24

I agree with you

47:25

that the studies

47:28

that have been published on adults in probiotics have shown

47:30

that it's very transient, that they

47:32

are they are tourists. They usually

47:35

they may show some benefit while you're taking them. But

47:37

as soon as you stop taking them, your body

47:39

kind of reverts back to its steady state where

47:41

it likes to be, which probably

47:43

isn't the best state of

47:45

the microbiome. What we found in our

47:48

studies is that babies

47:50

who were fed, being scientists

47:52

-- Mhmm. -- of Aviso,

47:54

along with breast milk, for twenty one

47:56

days in that first

47:58

month of life. If as

48:00

long as they continue to consume breast

48:02

milk, Bean Fantis remained

48:04

high in their gut microbiome

48:06

until almost a

48:07

year. That's I was convinced for three

48:09

weeks and then it lasted the

48:11

whole year. been shown

48:12

before in any other

48:14

population to be able to feed a probiotic

48:16

for a short amount of time and then be

48:18

able to track it and see that it

48:21

steady and it colonizes,

48:23

it stays steady. And

48:24

we believe that's because be

48:26

in fairness, as long as it's getting the

48:28

food source that it needs, which is human

48:30

milk, then

48:31

it's going to continue to populate

48:33

and proliferate and colonize

48:35

the infant gut. So

48:38

what we also saw in that same study is when babies switched

48:40

over to formula or

48:42

cow's milk, you could see the

48:44

levels of B and Fantis slowly

48:48

diminishing, which is exactly

48:49

what we want to happen. We

48:51

want when babies start eating plant fibers

48:53

for other bacteria to come in and say, I can

48:55

do that really well. I can

48:57

digest plant fibers, that's my jam. And so we let them

48:59

take over. But in

48:59

the beginning, when HMOs are present

49:02

in high

49:04

abundance, Be and Fantis must

49:05

be there to be able to digest them for babies. Amazing.

49:08

And and

49:10

does it

49:11

Does it

49:12

work if you have formula? And for some reason, you can't breastfeed to

49:15

take it as well? And do you

49:17

have to supplement with HMOs?

49:20

Okay. So I know we

49:21

started this conversation saying that there

49:23

is very stark differences

49:26

between human milk

49:28

and formula. and formula is

49:30

part of the reason we believe that there's been

49:32

a disruption in the infant

49:34

gut. But I also said

49:36

with passion that you

49:37

have to feed your baby,

49:39

And if breast milk is not available, you have to

49:41

be able to feed your

49:42

baby. And so for those babies that

49:45

are consuming formula, they

49:47

have to have B and Fantis in their intestine as well,

49:49

or else we've lost

49:51

half the population in

49:55

terms of being able to bring them the benefit of being Phantas. So what we did

49:57

is we looked at babies who

49:58

were consuming formula and

49:59

the ability

50:02

of be

50:03

in fairness to digest formula, and is able to utilize

50:05

some of the nutrients in formula, not

50:07

exactly the same mechanism as it

50:09

does in breast milk,

50:12

but it is able to digest some

50:14

of the components of a formula. I would

50:16

say to any mom or dad out there

50:18

who's who has a formula fed baby

50:22

Some being fanous colonization in your baby's gut is

50:24

better

50:24

than none. So even though you're not going

50:26

to see the same benefits that we've published with

50:30

breastfed babies, It is important to get some levels of B and Phantas

50:32

and increase the amount of

50:34

bifida

50:34

bacteremia in your baby's gut

50:37

if you can't reach the same abundance as if your

50:40

baby was consuming breast milk. So

50:42

I would say yes to both formula and

50:44

breastfed babies.

50:46

And and is there a way to get HMOs as a supplement to give

50:48

along with the provider?

50:50

robotic arm Maybe. because

50:52

because with an adult, we

50:54

do give prebiotic fibers. Right? So we do

50:56

give that to supplement with probiotics.

50:58

Howard Bauchner: I'm

50:59

I'm gonna say maybe

51:02

only because even if I could give you a source for where

51:04

to get them, we haven't looked at the

51:06

ability of those

51:08

exogenous HMOs to

51:10

recreate what we can see when baby

51:12

is consuming breast milk. You know, one of the

51:13

things that

51:14

came up for me as well was the

51:18

idea that women should take it while they're

51:20

pregnant. And it's one study that looked

51:22

at, it was lactobacillus g g of

51:24

the different probody, but it helps. So do

51:26

you see there's a role for

51:28

taking the Inventis as

51:30

a mother? So

51:32

I'm gonna answer

51:32

this question, not as a researcher. I'm

51:35

gonna answer this question as just

51:37

Tracy talking to Mark.

51:39

Mhmm. if I

51:41

were pregnant, I

51:43

would want to have to

51:45

ensure that the enfantis was in my

51:47

gut microbiome so that when I delivered

51:49

my baby, it had the best chance

51:51

of getting the enfantis from

51:54

me.

51:54

However, we have

51:56

not conducted those studies and If

51:59

you're treated for a group b strep with

51:59

antibiotics, then it doesn't matter what you took during

52:02

pregnancy because

52:03

those antibiotics wipe

52:06

it

52:06

out. And if baby is born by c section, it doesn't matter what you

52:08

have in your gut microbiome, baby doesn't

52:09

get it from you. Yeah. So that's the only

52:12

reason why

52:14

we are very focused

52:16

on

52:16

getting it into

52:18

baby

52:18

with the idea that in a

52:19

future state we would love to be able to

52:22

supplement moms or

52:24

feed moms IVVIVO and seed benefits for moms as well. Probiotics,

52:26

you know, can be problematic. A lot

52:28

of people there will bow. They go, I'm gonna take

52:30

probiotics. They go to the drugstore, and they go to the health

52:32

food store, and they get

52:34

the probiotics. x, and they take them, and often they

52:36

get worse. Yes.

52:38

So

52:38

yeah You know,

52:39

explain that there's an important order to doing things

52:41

and that what would be

52:44

beneficial point might be harmful at another point? I think that's absolutely

52:46

true. Order is really important.

52:49

And if somebody does

52:51

have an overgrowth of of

52:53

bacteria in the wrong place. Sometimes

52:56

probiotics make that worse, you know,

52:58

and you can get If you take a

53:00

probiotic and feel

53:02

more bloated, or your digestion doesn't feel it feels

53:04

worse, not better,

53:04

then that's the wrong probiotic

53:07

or or or could

53:08

be the right probiotic, but at the wrong

53:12

time. So it's really important

53:14

that you're either working with

53:16

somebody who knows what to how

53:18

to recommend, what order of things to

53:21

do it in, or, you know, your or

53:23

just knowing that if if it doesn't feel

53:26

right to you, put it

53:28

on hold. there's lots

53:30

of different brands of probiotics out there

53:32

and quality of probiotics

53:34

out there. Some probiotics have

53:37

dairy in people sensitive, they don't work and

53:39

other ones don't. There are

53:41

also some strains

53:44

of probiotics that

53:46

can and of themselves depending on the

53:48

milieu increase the amount

53:50

of of of bloating for

53:51

certain people. So

53:54

there are

53:54

it's hard to

53:57

give a general recommendation.

54:00

Like, I it's hard for me to say, we'll take this

54:02

one because it doesn't work

54:04

for everyone. but just know that if you try one and it makes

54:06

you feel worse, put it aside and

54:08

it may be that it's just not the

54:09

right one for you or

54:11

it's one to try at a

54:13

later date after you've gotten rid of the

54:16

dysbiotic

54:16

bacteria. Some

54:19

people get get a probiotic and they

54:21

feel better right away and then that's that's great. I

54:23

hope you enjoyed today's

54:24

episode. One of the best ways

54:26

you can support this podcast is by

54:29

leaving us a rating

54:30

and review below. Until next time,

54:32

thanks for tuning in.

54:35

Hey, everybody. It's

54:36

doctor Heimin. Thanks for tuning in to the doctor

54:38

pharmacy. I hope you're loving this podcast. It's one of my favorite

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55:23

you my favorite stuff that I use to

55:25

enhance my health and get healthier,

55:27

and better, and live

55:29

younger, longer.

55:30

Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes

55:32

only. This podcast is not a substitute

55:34

for professional care by a doctor

55:36

or other qualified medical professional.

55:39

This podcast is provided on the understanding that

55:41

it does not constitute medical or

55:43

other professional advice or services. If

55:45

you're looking for help in your journey, seek

55:47

out a quote find medical practitioner. If you're looking for a

55:49

functional medicine practitioner, you can visit ifm

55:52

dot org and search their find a

55:54

practitioner database. It's

55:56

important that you have someone in your corner who's

55:58

trained, who's a licensed healthcare

55:59

practitioner, and can help you make changes,

56:02

especially when it comes to

56:04

your health.