0:00

Off top, Princeton researchers turned

0:02

a live cat into a

0:04

working telephone. Play the music. This

0:06

is the Dominique Foxworth Show. All

0:12

right,

0:14

welcome to the Dominique Foxworth Show. That laughter you

0:17

hear in the back is from

0:19

the great Foxworth Show Hall of

0:21

Famer, Wozni Lambray. He is pretending like he's from

0:23

New York, even though he out in LA right

0:25

now. He put on that New York hat to

0:27

try to fool us. You are a LA man,

0:29

Wozni. I reject the notion.

0:33

I do have a lot of love

0:35

for my adopted home of Los Angeles.

0:37

It's been close to seven

0:39

years now since I've been here on

0:42

the West Coast and drinking green

0:44

juices and, you know, putting on

0:46

natural deodorants and the things of

0:49

that sort. But no, I will be

0:51

a New York M-effer through

0:54

and through until the day that I'm gone.

0:56

We're on ESPN2 now, so we got some

0:58

new audience. So I guess we should introduce

1:00

them to my good friend, producer and co-host,

1:02

the great Charlie Kravitz. And he is a

1:04

segue god. We'll see if he can pull

1:06

it off today. Got a big show. Obviously,

1:08

you're going to talk Nuggets

1:11

Wolves with Wozni. And then we're going to bring

1:13

in Kevin Clark, talk about some more headlines. But

1:16

you brought up that cat becoming

1:18

a telephone, because Anthony Edwards also

1:20

transformed a cat into a winning

1:22

basketball player. And we need to

1:24

start there because the big guy didn't

1:26

know how you were going to pull off that segue. But

1:29

once I see it, that was too obvious. It was so

1:31

obvious. You got to be kidding me. No,

1:33

OK. Oh, my lord. Please, somebody get this

1:35

man. It's unacceptable. Got to be kidding me.

1:37

That one's unacceptable. All right, what do you

1:39

want to talk about? Well, we got to

1:42

talk about the evisceration from

1:44

the Minnesota Timberwolves of the defending

1:46

champion, Denver Nuggets in game two.

1:48

They're now up 2-0. They won

1:50

two games at altitude in Denver,

1:52

surprising a lot of people. What

1:55

was your biggest takeaway from watching that game two

1:57

performance? So I mean.

2:00

I hate to say this, but, uh, that Charlie was right.

2:02

It was my biggest takeaway. So last, uh,

2:04

I guess Monday was, we did a show

2:07

and Charlie was ready to bury,

2:09

not Barry, but he was like, I think

2:11

the wolves are going to like really handle

2:13

this series. And I was like, I did

2:15

all about champions and them in

2:17

their metal and yokies is so

2:19

great and they've been tested and

2:21

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

2:24

They got smacked and they are

2:26

not prepared. We can blame the

2:28

Jamal Murray injury, but also don't

2:30

throw shit. Like I'm a former

2:33

player union leader. I'm a defending players. I

2:35

don't call for nobody to be suspended, but

2:37

Jamal Murray, how dare you throw some, like

2:39

that to me was what I was like,

2:41

Oh, this is over. First

2:45

quarter of game two. That was

2:47

early. Yeah. I mean, look, to

2:49

watch the nuggets of the past

2:52

two seasons before this series is

2:54

to watch basically a Metro gnome

2:56

on offense. Like these guys routinely

2:59

push out 120 plus

3:01

offensive ratings, no matter the opponent,

3:04

no matter the situation, they are

3:06

just machine like in churning out

3:09

efficient offense, right?

3:11

And then they run up against this

3:13

buzzsaw and it just doesn't look like

3:16

that. Like game one, they struggled on

3:18

offense. Um, I think Minnesota played, you

3:20

know, slightly above their head on offense

3:23

themselves, but it was just a

3:25

regular game. The nuggets were way

3:27

below their standards on office.

3:29

And I think it starts at the point of attack with Jamal

3:31

Murray, where the guy in game one is shooting three of 19

3:34

or three of 18 or whatever it is. And

3:37

he, and in game two, it looked even

3:40

worse. Like this guy's getting pull up jump

3:42

shots blocked. Just straight up his

3:44

jump shots are getting blocked. When do we ever,

3:46

when have we ever seen that happen to Jamal

3:48

Murray? And I think the nuggets, they,

3:51

they wanted to try to keep running

3:53

their stuff. They wanted to try to

3:55

keep getting system buckets, if

3:57

you will. And the Timberwolves were

3:59

just not. having it. They were just shutting off

4:01

their water at every turn and I think

4:04

they're at a point now, the Nuggets are,

4:06

where they need

4:08

their MVP to just go out and do

4:10

that. He just has to go out

4:13

and beat people. It's not gonna be about a system. He has to

4:15

go out and try to score 50 against

4:17

his matchup and I think

4:19

that's the only thing that can save them at

4:21

this point. I got a couple things. So the

4:23

Murray thing, I think a lot of people are

4:25

going to point to the injury which I already

4:27

brought up as part of the issue. Yeah, that's

4:29

part of the issue. He's clearly hurt. Yeah, that's

4:32

part of it. But them boys playing defense man.

4:34

And I gotta say that I appreciate how active

4:36

and long and we haven't even gotten to the

4:38

defense that they're playing against your kids and the

4:40

big guys. Like the perimeter guys are

4:43

shockingly like suffocating on

4:45

the defensive side of the ball and I think

4:47

that's something that it's

4:49

also tied into how we appreciate or we are

4:52

acknowledging that even though the NBA won't acknowledge it,

4:54

they changed the way that they call in these

4:56

games and the way that the Wolves are playing

4:58

defense was something the first half of the season

5:00

was not allowed and the way that they played

5:03

defense in this game is the way that they've

5:05

been calling it the second half of the season

5:07

and a lot in the playoffs and it's to

5:09

their big advantage. Like they're a big, long

5:12

physical team and I think they are

5:14

Jamal Murray or not. Like Jamal Murray

5:16

healthy or not. That's the thing that

5:18

I'm concerned about that I'm guarding against is

5:21

us saying that this is because Jamal Murray

5:23

is hurt. Yeah. It may be ugly because

5:25

he's hurt but the Wolves

5:27

to seem better. I might be prisoner a moment

5:29

because this is my takeaway as well from game

5:31

two was the Timberwolves

5:34

defense. Like I cannot

5:36

remember since the I'm gonna

5:38

start this era of the NBA in

5:41

2015. Oh hyperbole alert. I can feel them

5:43

building up for some hyperbole. There have been

5:45

a ton of great NBA defensive

5:47

teams. I'm not gonna put them above and

5:49

contextualize that the game was very different at

5:51

different points. But since that Warriors team sort

5:53

of emerged in the 2014-2015 season and won

5:56

their first title to me with the way

5:58

the game is being officiated now. I

6:00

cannot remember a better defensive performance than what

6:03

I saw in game two by the Minnesota

6:05

Timberwolves the perimeter defense was stifling

6:07

Jamal Murray didn't want to dribble the ball up

6:09

past half court They didn't have a secondary or

6:11

tertiary ball handler that could take pressure off of

6:14

Murray unless you're running the offense Through yokach handling

6:16

the ball, which is now what they want to

6:18

do They want him as a as like a

6:20

top of the key passer distributor again closer and

6:22

closer to the basket to me This is a

6:24

crazy comparison. We've heard so many and

6:27

the Edwards Jordan comparisons The defense

6:29

looked like a 90s Bulls type

6:31

of defense team with with Pippin

6:33

Jordan Harper just hounding people

6:35

and like you're bringing in guys Obviously

6:38

of McDaniels right and you have Edwards bring

6:40

it in Nikhil Alexander Walker It's just length

6:43

and athleticism and stifling they played so hard

6:45

And then you got towns thinking the towns

6:47

is gonna be a physical presence like bullying

6:49

people on offense and defense was stunning. I

6:52

get Caught up. I think

6:54

I get surprised Not every offseason

6:56

or excuse me Not in every postseason But there

6:58

are certain post seasons where you don't know what

7:00

the difference is going to be or the story

7:02

of that post season is going to be what's

7:05

important what's the difference maker and Oftentimes

7:08

I fall back on like I'll go through

7:10

all whatever analysis and thinking that I have

7:12

but eventually I'm like who got to do

7:15

And I think that was partially

7:17

how I came into this series I was like

7:19

who got to do but it feels like This

7:21

series and a lot of this playoffs if you look at the

7:23

teams that are having success is a lot more about depth

7:27

Than it is about a start.

7:29

Does that make any sense? You are saying

7:31

yeah I think Denver's depth was always going

7:34

to be an issue. I think everybody who

7:36

was paying attention rightfully pointed

7:38

to you know losing Bruce

7:41

Brown Losing uncle

7:44

Jeff Green those guys were key contributors to

7:46

the bench units in the playoffs last year

7:48

And they were like look we're gonna roll

7:50

the dice on our young guys who are

7:52

on rookie deals and you

7:54

know count on our Development count on

7:56

our collective Talent to lift those guys

7:59

up. In, you know

8:01

they're vulnerable ties with yeah you're right

8:03

that the secondary ballhandling is tough. Reggie

8:05

Jackson is shot his best. God bless

8:07

him out the said spurts and among

8:10

but even he went off with an

8:12

injury on at the end of game

8:14

to and I just think they they

8:16

just got this thing so well scouted.

8:18

Like one of the things that they've

8:21

done quite affective leads was that they

8:23

didn't want to let your kids run

8:25

fast breaks right arm. I don't know

8:27

if these guys saw something in the.

8:30

Film with Dig up Some it's internal

8:32

numbers about the know a offensive efficiency

8:34

with your kids grads and goes. but

8:36

they did the first seem I've ever

8:38

seen be like Yo Sues joke is

8:40

grabs everyone would get the ball. Lot

8:42

of dissent immediately. Most visited consent is

8:44

a see the big fat white guys

8:47

dribbling the ball down court and it's

8:49

fine. Stay with the first thing that

8:51

I've ever seen in the history of

8:53

this integration of dead birds. Be like

8:55

not with Stop The Nets and Jamal

8:57

Murray the way that they are pressuring

8:59

him. Literally out

9:02

to freakin as soon as he in bounce

9:04

the ball arm and we joke it comes

9:06

at the screen the way that they crowd

9:08

in this got the way that they have

9:11

the party past best. that's when his favorite

9:13

replace his they come off the trigger oh

9:15

soon as he seems a little bit of

9:17

space for your kids he trusted don't apply

9:20

to pass between to defend it's they're literally

9:22

playing the play to not allow their party

9:24

best and he's not at the point where

9:27

he feels confidence in him airflow regain get

9:29

in that you know putting up. That that

9:31

quick pull up to like the did

9:33

Murray of of tests you know it's

9:35

a little. Be more confident hunting is

9:37

south for whatever reason. He first two

9:40

games that has been the the mode

9:42

that he's wanted to take in and

9:44

Minnesota's like as you plane into our

9:46

hands because we're not going to let

9:48

your kids dictate terms to us, an

9:50

email you know says itself we should

9:52

celebrate avenue. Edwards and Owners

9:54

warriors and everything that adorn. Other

9:57

wolf. Or to the warriors am at.

10:00

Why am I reading? are you happy are not

10:02

to like about the move them as as a

10:04

fair criticism of them to lead to the next

10:06

round there. Were. Going to proceed

10:08

their office is not. Ah,

10:11

with my pretty it's it's it's working right now

10:13

but did not bring back as you get when

10:16

would decrease by the point of going to make

10:18

was maybe because we think this series is over

10:20

that we should spend a little bit more time

10:22

on the nuggets and or yolk it specifically but

10:24

you can have sent us the off the top

10:26

was the in same like this is. Where.

10:29

He has a sense and I don't want

10:31

to be a joke is hater. I don't

10:33

consider myself a job you hate but last

10:35

week or city last series. All.

10:38

The like joke it's greatest of all time things

10:40

were happening and I brought up like. He.

10:42

Don't have that resume like as see which

10:44

I'll see to. Yes. He. Can play

10:46

at that level. I. Agree. However,

10:49

he don't had a resume to have

10:51

him and these conversations and now we're

10:53

at a moment where he needs because

10:56

tie the needs this to continue to

10:58

be in those conversations are justified people.

11:00

put America first bite em overreacting. But

11:03

that's how I feel. especially since last

11:05

years run was not. It sounds the

11:07

runway. I don't have a a key.

11:10

Thing. To think about for yoga you

11:13

think are all the other big men that

11:15

we think of these great is all time.

11:17

They put up championships or top executives or

11:19

topic championships and I know we can explain

11:21

away why joke is the and get him

11:23

his injuries the bubble with all joseph but

11:26

yolk it's like. I

11:28

know he don't care whether you that

11:30

conversation that but anybody whose voices honestly

11:32

put him in these conversations and the

11:34

resume right now as a four year

11:36

playoff run averaging about thirty thirty nine

11:39

as eight assists one championship presumably three

11:41

Mbps endured now assuming this is. This.

11:43

Is done. The nuggets around his at it

11:45

as an and if they get this last

11:48

out of a series do Do I mean

11:50

does that sound wrong to you? better not

11:52

as it's it sounds a little bit wrong

11:54

to me. I think they're a little bit

11:56

diminish version of themselves arm again like I

11:58

said they did take a step. Back in

12:00

overall tallied this season arm and you

12:02

know to appoint a sick joke. It's

12:05

has to be heard from before the

12:07

series of raids. Like he has to

12:09

put his stamp on this thing in

12:11

some way, shape or form whether they

12:13

go down nino of for five games.

12:16

Whatever that that you know sometimes a

12:18

salvage ship fault but joke is has

12:20

to put his improve on this thing

12:22

because we've come to expect that kind

12:24

of output from the even a you

12:27

are Joe Allen beaten so often comes

12:29

up in these conversations. You to say

12:31

what you want about them. Ultimately losing

12:33

to the Knicks the first round he

12:35

made his presence felt in that series

12:37

on like you to not be no

12:39

arm but like diminish that he was

12:41

on a court again. The Knicks are

12:43

obviously not a talented team is the

12:45

Timber Wolves but what I'm saying I'm

12:47

still holds true and be made. His

12:49

impact on at Sears even loaded with

12:52

daddy to say and bead was not

12:54

a forceful you know positive on force

12:56

for for what Philadelphia wanted to do

12:58

not big on the architect to. Take.

13:00

That approach and honestly I think one on

13:02

one I don't think he has a problem

13:04

with Rudy or Karl Towns to be

13:06

honest on these eat in the recent past

13:09

like you kind of cook those guys in

13:11

his one on one matchups with the Majesty

13:13

has to take that Med school of my

13:15

job's is literally all the nothing is all

13:18

on meets going forward. One. I. Think

13:20

obvious a yoke issues are some heat if

13:22

they get swept like this is. this is

13:24

the crowd you air when you're the best

13:26

player in the world. An. End

13:28

To This is something that. Your.

13:31

Boss Bill Simmons brought up on his back

13:33

as as I was an excellent point that

13:35

this actually happens to great players more than

13:37

we realize to pretty much every the Bill

13:39

Russell they have a moment in the playoffs

13:42

where they sort of get past it happened

13:44

or bronze have to coby. It

13:47

happened to you know countless guys are the

13:49

pretty much have an object everyone except for

13:51

Bill Russell who is playing a very different

13:53

era. The thing that. i think is

13:55

is more interesting is how the the nuggets

13:58

as a as a total unit habit Responded

14:00

to adversity well at all and that's the thing

14:02

where if you want to take a look

14:04

back at 2022 Like

14:07

maybe this team wasn't as tough and as like

14:09

resilient as we thought because they played all of

14:11

these easy series personally I

14:13

don't love that because I think it does take a

14:15

little bit of steam out of ant like the whole

14:17

one of the fun Parts of this is that he's

14:19

do is that Anthony Edwards is emerging as this guy

14:21

and Doing it to yokich and

14:23

doing it to Kevin Durant and doing it to

14:25

these guys So if we disregard their greatness then

14:28

it's it's also disregarding what Edwards is doing I

14:30

mean, I think it's a fair conversation to have

14:32

and I try my best to position This is

14:34

not a hater or disregarding It's obviously more just

14:36

my personal bias is pointing out that I was

14:38

right a couple weeks ago when I said slow

14:40

it down however, Jack got Sorry,

14:44

however, I will say that We

14:48

are assuming that it's over Because

14:51

we watch these two games. Yeah, yokies

14:53

got a shot Like this is like

14:55

one of those things where I

14:57

will be a damn fool No one

14:59

thinks it's gonna happen But if yokies just

15:01

put up 50 for three in a row

15:03

and just goes on the road When's the

15:06

couple there and starts putting like that? It's

15:08

not outside the realm of possibility He is

15:10

that good a player that impactful and the

15:12

wolves are newer to this Environment

15:15

they haven't had they haven't

15:17

been pushed yet. So we could see like all

15:19

the things that we question about teams Like

15:22

this is they haven't been pushed because they haven't

15:24

gone there and they're young I know they aren't

15:26

like young young but they're young as far as

15:29

like this type of pressure like it There's a

15:31

chance there's some hope out there. No one believes

15:33

me. I mean to me No,

15:39

no, no, no, no, I don't want to say that I just think

15:42

Sure It's the

15:44

it's the wolves. We've never seen them do it I

15:47

don't think we should just take it for granted that they're

15:49

just gonna start smoking these guys,

15:51

you know Forever more here.

15:54

I think that the Nuggets are

15:56

going to Respond I think they

15:58

have it in them to play much better better than

16:01

they have, they might ultimately fall short.

16:03

But in no way do I think

16:05

that they're at the point now where

16:07

they just can't win, right? Like they

16:09

just can't beat the Minnesota

16:11

Timberwolves. I think that's nuts. I

16:13

think Minnesota, you know,

16:15

God bless them. They are absolutely

16:17

peaking at the perfect time. I'm

16:20

sure you guys have seen this stat. They are

16:22

the number one offense in the NBA playoffs. These

16:24

guys finished either 13th or 15th, depending

16:26

on what source you want to go to.

16:29

In offensive rating this year. That

16:31

is absolutely insane. Again,

16:33

what they're doing on defense is what they did

16:36

all year. I know people

16:38

made a bunch of jokes about Rudy not being there

16:40

in game two and them still having a smothering defense.

16:42

That's one game. I think Rudy has kind of proven

16:44

that he's that guy. He's

16:46

redeemed himself and his reputation in that

16:48

way. But yeah, man, I'm

16:51

excited to see how the Nuggets respond.

16:54

Because I do think, I actually do

16:56

believe in that heart of a champion

16:58

stuff, championship medal stuff that you briefly

17:00

mentioned, Dominique. And I think that the

17:02

Nuggets, because they have some

17:04

personal and professional pride, are going to show

17:06

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let's talk about the play of

18:10

the week. The pressure to follow

18:12

up hypnotic and cognac weighing heavy

18:14

on the team. Hypnotic was in

18:16

the cup, blue and ready for

18:18

the play. And boom, on Yeyo

18:20

Takila came in with a smooth

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alcohol by volume, hypnotic reminds you to

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think wisely, drink wisely. Woz,

18:43

I do wanna know what you think about the wolves, which

18:46

is one, how important and

18:48

impressive this Edwards breakout is. And two,

18:50

if they keep rolling like this, do

18:52

you view this wolf seem as a

18:54

clear title favorite? Two things, one,

18:58

the Anthony Edwards thing is important

19:01

cause I remember a

19:04

game against Boston very early

19:06

on in this season

19:08

that I flagged for

19:10

myself because after the

19:12

game, my man John Krasinski at

19:15

the athletics, the

19:17

most tapped in wolves rider that

19:19

there is, he was asking questions

19:21

about the ending of the game. And there

19:23

were like three or four possessions where

19:26

him and Jayden McDaniels ended

19:29

up on an Island guarding Jason

19:31

Tatum and Jaylen Brown in isolation. And

19:33

that's what Ed Edwards wanted to talk about.

19:36

He wanted to say, we held

19:38

up against these two superstars in isolation,

19:41

in crunch time. And that's the type

19:43

of team we are basically. And I

19:45

remember cataloging

19:47

that because oftentimes

19:50

when young guys become the kind of people that can drop 30

19:52

a game, 25 a game, they

19:55

start being like, yo, look, I'm a guy

19:57

that drops 30. The gritty

19:59

grind. That's for the

20:01

others. That's for the help. I'm

20:03

a superstar. I'm a star. I don't participate

20:06

in that type of grunt work. Anthony

20:08

Edwards, after beating everybody's title

20:10

favorite coming into the season

20:14

and they're showing, and he had a good

20:16

game on offense too. He wanted to highlight

20:18

what him and Jayden McDaniels did in the

20:20

pressure pack moments on defense. And I was

20:22

like, wow, this is an

20:24

amazing development. Fast forward

20:27

to the end of game two, what is

20:29

Ant Edwards doing? He's going

20:31

out of his way to flag

20:34

Jayden McDaniels again. He's like, yo, this

20:36

guy probably had five points, five shots

20:38

between the two games, does

20:41

no complaining, and is

20:43

indispensable to what we're doing on

20:45

defense. And so this guy

20:48

at this age to be taking that

20:50

tact about the approach and

20:53

then understanding, having the emotional

20:55

intelligence to be like, yo,

20:57

it's not easy coming down

20:59

court every possession, having no

21:01

plays ran for you, not

21:04

really always getting to participate in the

21:06

fun stuff on offense and still working

21:08

your butt off on defense and staying

21:10

committed that way. And the guy

21:12

with the spotlight on him wants to highlight

21:14

that. I'm like, damn, this

21:16

is special, man. This is special, special

21:18

stuff. Yeah, I got chills while you

21:20

were saying all that in part because

21:24

players like this don't come along often.

21:26

So refreshing. And we use the same

21:28

words to describe him that we would

21:30

use to describe other guys, and it

21:32

becomes quite clear that we shouldn't have

21:34

been using those words because we've devalued

21:36

them to some point. And

21:38

I think the juxtaposition between Anthony Edwards

21:41

and Karl Anthony Towns is interesting because

21:43

it's about authenticity. It's like

21:46

Karl Anthony Towns was the guy who

21:48

said all the things that he was

21:50

supposed to say. He knew what the

21:52

superstar playbook, the team leader playbook said

21:54

to do, and he did it, and

21:56

he said it, but that wasn't real.

22:00

And we see it and it's real and there's something

22:02

about all the things in

22:04

the emotional intelligence and basketball maturity that

22:06

he has is we know in part

22:09

guys hit their prime 26, 27 years

22:12

old. That's because they haven't

22:14

left their physical prime yet, but they

22:16

have reached their mental prime and the

22:19

mental prime part of that is understanding

22:21

how important defense is, understanding how important

22:23

all these ancillary things are that normally

22:25

guys don't care about because they don't

22:27

show up on a stat sheet, understanding

22:29

how important the example you set and

22:32

the things that you say because you're a

22:34

leader and they carry more work, understanding that

22:36

you're essentially the quarterback and also kind of

22:38

the coach and a little bit the GM

22:40

and also like you can control the media

22:43

narrative around it. It feels like either

22:45

he understands how to do all of

22:47

that or understands he needs to do

22:49

all that or he just naturally like

22:51

this is real. And I know that

22:53

in everybody to some degree, athlete or

22:56

not, all of us are like somewhat,

22:58

there's a percentage of our personality that

23:00

is performance. It feels like

23:02

none of this is fake and that's the part

23:04

that like feels refreshing and exciting. It's super refreshing.

23:06

I mean, it's also, this is like a really

23:08

gritty player in a league that had been one

23:11

of the criticism, but it felt like a finesse

23:13

league in past years. And

23:15

you know, the personality helps, but

23:18

it also is the fact that he's just so damn good.

23:22

Like he's putting up all the

23:24

performances that match the personality. And

23:26

I think it's, those are connected to cut

23:28

you off Charlie, but I think that those

23:30

are connected. I think that these moments, I

23:32

think we talked about this last week and

23:34

how when the tight moments show up, Anthony

23:38

Edwards seems excited about it. They're not, not

23:40

even ready for it, but like happy

23:43

almost. And it's, it's unusual. Sorry.

23:46

No, I mean, it's, it's really interesting because you

23:48

said that, you know, he's doing this at 22

23:50

and I think that's one of the interesting parts

23:52

about it. They lined up and built this roster

23:54

with it before his like gigantic salary is going

23:56

to kick in. It's going to be

23:58

a lot harder. And that's a. credit to Tim Connelly

24:00

who made the all in trade that got mocked

24:03

for Rudy Gobert. That's him building this roster around

24:05

Ant that really works. It's so defensively dynamic. The

24:08

interesting part about this is we've talked about the Nuggets

24:10

and there was a point last year we thought this

24:12

could be a three, five year run. They stack a

24:14

lot of championships. If the Nuggets lose this round and

24:16

the Wolves become the title favorites, he'll be

24:18

the sixth new champion in six years. And

24:22

that's an era of parody that we haven't seen

24:24

in the NBA since before the 80s.

24:27

And I wonder, are we seeing

24:29

something that's going to be like the birth of

24:31

something or are we in a different era where

24:33

it's like the West is so strong that these

24:36

teams are going to be fighting for the top

24:38

every single year? I think this is what Adam

24:40

Silver ultimately wanted. This is what they've been dying

24:42

for. This idea

24:44

of like the NFL playoffs, you never

24:46

know who's ultimately going to come out

24:49

on top, right? Like this idea of

24:51

the P word of parody. It's

24:53

what they want. Why they've

24:56

added the freaking draconian

24:58

luxury tax rules and second apron

25:00

rules that they did so that teams,

25:02

you know, the teams at the very

25:05

top cannot just keep stacking and stacking

25:07

upon their already elite talent. So this

25:09

isn't by accident. This is actually by

25:11

design and it's what the league's been

25:13

sort of angling this thing towards for

25:15

a very long time now. So I'm

25:17

not, you know, I'm not surprised by

25:19

that outcome. And to get back to

25:21

that second question that you did ask

25:23

me, you know, shameless plug on my

25:25

YouTube show and my feelings, check that

25:27

out on the ringer MBA's YouTube

25:30

page every single Friday. I've

25:33

mentioned that I thought this series was for

25:35

the championship. I said

25:38

that on Friday. I literally thought the winner

25:40

of Nuggets and Wolves would ultimately

25:42

go on to the NBA finals and win it

25:44

no matter who came out of the East. And

25:47

I haven't been dissuaded from that thought.

25:49

I mean, Boston is not

25:52

their fault that they've played some

25:55

poor competition, but they've

25:57

dominated that competition. But

25:59

I think. In terms of

26:01

strength of schedule. And quality

26:03

of when you have to save.

26:05

The Minnesota Timberwolves have been the

26:08

play offs best team but this

26:10

will college football or basketball and

26:12

we had a media pole and

26:14

Coaches poll. Everybody would

26:17

unanimously agreed that the Minnesota

26:19

Timberwolves are at the top.

26:22

Of that poll is in terms of who's

26:24

the best teams in America and Canada. I

26:27

guess how home at her as I I

26:29

think that's indisputable right now I'm a hard

26:31

to argue with but I mean you gotta

26:33

so much on the some respect but I

26:35

north so now I'm I'm taking I'm I'm

26:38

taking them from Go from Charlie Charlie Love

26:40

the been there but I've decided their mind

26:42

because we had a tarp on a team

26:44

know Vanderbilt than I do. they didn't have

26:46

that sounds I'm I'm stuck with lucre that

26:49

the celtics a severe you real sick and

26:51

me with this out an. Eye

26:53

on that note we let my mayor was

26:56

the go presents you for joining us man

26:58

good luck to you next piece bros up

27:00

next more headlines with Kevin Clark by as

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28:17

right, we're now joined by Kevin Clark,

28:19

a famed Orlando Magic

28:21

fan, football nerd, and

28:25

80s movie villain. Welcome, buddy. I

28:27

just want to say that we

28:30

were off lining here about the mustache and all

28:32

of your mustache comparisons were in the last five

28:35

years. You got to go further

28:37

back, man. I'm trying to do like

28:39

a vintage thing. Oh, I mean,

28:41

what do you want? Like old Westerns.

28:43

I don't know. I mean, you're

28:45

Burt Reynolds. Yeah. Yeah.

28:47

Yes. Smokey and the Bandit. How

28:50

about that? All

28:52

your comps are Twitter people. I

28:54

mean, I feel like you

28:56

got a bit of a never

28:58

mind a beautiful mustache. Welcome to the show, buddy.

29:00

I'm happy to have you. I don't want you

29:03

in a bad mood before we do all these

29:05

great headlines. But yeah,

29:08

mustache. You look like you

29:10

could be the manager of a Dutch soccer team. Is

29:14

that that's a compliment? I would love

29:16

that. They're all compliments. How are you feeling

29:18

about the magic? How are you feeling about

29:20

Paolo Vankara? I'll make it quick.

29:22

They need a shooter. They may need two shooters.

29:27

Should we talk about some real basketball teams?

29:29

Sure. We're coming off of a

29:32

drawing last night where the Thunder

29:34

just had waves and waves of talent

29:36

and the Mavericks looked. Luke

29:39

looked injured. They look like a two

29:41

man show. They looked under completely undermanned.

29:43

And I'm just kind of low hanging

29:45

fruit. Ask the question after one game, does it feel like

29:48

the Thunder are just better than the Mavericks? Yes.

29:51

Yes. Simply put. Yeah. I mean,

29:53

especially. You were right. You were right. That was

29:55

low angle. Especially with the way that Luca looked

29:58

like Luca looks out of it. Yeah,

30:01

physically and emotionally I guess emotionally because

30:03

of physically so yeah They don't particularly

30:05

have a chance it sucks too because

30:08

God Kyrie Irving is so fun to watch

30:10

and so talented Like through the course of

30:12

that game There are a number

30:15

of incredible dunks and highlights and blocks

30:17

that were mind-blowing But I

30:19

still walk away from almost every game with

30:21

Kyrie in it even if he's not even

30:23

playing well I walk away thinking gosh

30:25

that man Just the ball handling and the

30:27

body control and the shooting ability. It's just

30:30

a combination that it's so so fun to

30:32

watch I don't know Where

30:34

the Mavericks go from here? I think there's

30:36

a reckoning because there's a lot of torch

30:38

passing Is that is that a phrase I

30:40

can use a lot of towards passing in

30:43

both conferences? Mm-hmm, and I don't know who's

30:45

on the outside looking at like when there's

30:47

when the ground starts to shift beneath everybody's

30:49

feet Like there are really good teams

30:51

that get relegated to minor characters very very very quickly I

30:53

feel that way with the Nuggets right now where they're actually

30:55

seeing a market correction in real time where they're just like oh This

30:58

might this winning championship thing might not be

31:00

for us anymore We might be getting we

31:02

might be getting supplanted in real time and

31:04

everybody can see it every single game we

31:06

play So I just don't

31:08

know I like the Thunder of the future the

31:10

the Maverick the Timberwolves are the future like we're

31:13

starting to see that

31:15

kind of generation move in

31:17

before before our eyes and I think

31:19

that the Mavericks like I

31:21

don't think Jason kids very good coach. I

31:24

thought their defense he wears glasses. He

31:26

wears glasses No,

31:30

it's a good point I would I withdraw my

31:32

point he wears glasses you have your big dagnell

31:34

guy You think he's X and O in him

31:36

up? He's an awesome couch You

31:40

look like a big deck now guy. I'm only thing.

31:42

I know about him the only thing I know about

31:44

him is that LeBron and JJ Riddick had like a

31:47

Conversation where they're both like he's he's honest peas

31:49

and cues and I don't know anything about

31:51

NBA coaching So I just go I

31:53

go based off of who still wears suits And

31:58

then I just look at results I think

32:00

it wins your losses. This series is interesting for

32:02

some of the things that you were saying, like

32:04

the passing of the torch thing makes this series

32:06

particularly interesting because I do see between both of

32:08

these teams, like similar

32:11

athletes around stars,

32:14

but the difference it feels like that,

32:17

and this does speak to coaching, Dagnell

32:19

has faith in the athletes around these

32:21

stars to handle the ball and make

32:23

decisions and shoot. It doesn't feel that

32:25

way. So like you watch these great

32:27

athletes on the maps, get great blocks,

32:30

great defense, catch alley oops, but you

32:32

don't watch them handle the ball and

32:34

make decisions or shoot a shot that

32:36

was not created for them by Kyrie

32:38

or Luca. And then watching the Thunder,

32:40

my Thunder play, I'm a big Thunder

32:42

guy, I've been high on a Thunder,

32:45

all playoffs, I told Charlie coming in that this,

32:47

the playoffs keep an eye on a Thunder. I

32:49

know they're one seed, but nobody believes them when

32:51

they're young, they're gonna be great. That's good, that

32:54

was a good tip, thanks Fox. You got it.

32:57

Watching them like in the fourth

33:00

quarter be comfortable with Jaylen Williams running pick

33:02

and roll in fourth quarter of a

33:05

playoff game and like Wiggins making decisions

33:07

and handling the ball. It's like no

33:09

other teams seem that comfortable with these

33:12

ancillary guys in these key positions. So we'll see

33:14

what happens when they get in a tough series

33:16

because they haven't been in one yet, but right

33:18

now it's really impressive. May

33:20

I ask you a question? Nah.

33:23

This might seem hyperbole, and

33:25

then you're gonna think about it and it's gonna

33:28

seem less like hyperbole. Okay. In

33:30

basketball history, has there been a better rebuild,

33:34

reload situation, what Sam Presley is doing right

33:36

now? Like from where they were, and

33:39

I'm talking about they're on very close

33:41

to the mountain top as far as

33:43

Westbrook, Durant, Harden, they hit

33:46

the reset button and they're this good, this

33:48

quickly. Like I'm trying to think

33:50

in any sport of a team that was like,

33:52

we're just gonna tear the sound of the studs

33:54

and we're gonna be a juggernaut very, very, very

33:56

quickly. Like it's a Mount

33:58

Rushmore. We can see. Skip the shock

34:01

and hyperbole, I think you're right. It's

34:03

hard to argue against that, how good they are

34:05

and how well positioned they are going forward, which

34:07

we always hear about their draft picks and it's

34:10

probably an interesting way to go with this conversation.

34:12

It's like, what should they do with

34:14

their draft picks? I'm someone who's like,

34:16

hey, the window's open, ball all them

34:18

draft picks up and throw them at

34:20

a star and go

34:22

to the next level, but I can see by

34:24

the look on Charlie's face that he disagrees with.

34:27

No, I think, I have a stat for you.

34:29

I'm gonna stat you guys down. Oh baby, oh

34:31

baby. The Thunder won 57 games with a plus

34:33

7.4 point differential. The

34:37

2012 Thunder, the KD Russ hardened

34:40

Thunder, 6.1 point

34:42

differential. What they've done with SGA, Chet

34:45

and Jalen Williams and these draft

34:47

picks is unbelievable. And there's something

34:49

that we've talked a lot about a little bit, which

34:52

is Sam Pressy in certain ways

34:54

running this like a football team, like they

34:56

have just waves of players and waves of

34:58

options and they have indispensable pieces and then

35:00

dispensable pieces on the edges. And we're gonna

35:02

see the NBA move into this new era

35:05

where it's harder and harder to retain your

35:07

whole roster around stars. And we thought for

35:09

years, Pressy was going to just cash in

35:11

these draft picks, get another all-star builder on

35:13

that, have elite guys. They're so good at

35:16

drafting and developing and they hired Chip England

35:18

from the Spurs who fixed Kawhi's jump shot,

35:20

who's really helped this team. They

35:22

shot 16 for 34 from three in game one.

35:24

That's obviously not sustainable. Oh, that's all chip. That's

35:27

chip, big chip. If they're gonna continue to draft

35:29

the Case and Wallace's and the Jalen Williams's and

35:31

the Jalen Williams's and guys outside of the top

35:33

five that are excellent and they have all of

35:35

these draft picks, you can keep Chet, you can

35:38

keep Jalen Williams, you can keep SGA and keep

35:40

rolling in guys on rookie contracts that can be

35:42

excellent players by the time you have to pay

35:44

them. The interesting thing about this question, about this

35:47

team is they have shown

35:49

the ability to continuously draft well

35:51

while no one else shows that ability

35:54

consistently, which even prior to Chip and

35:56

England would suggest to me that it's

35:58

not that they're drafting. well

36:02

objectively as much as they're drafting well

36:04

for their team and they are good

36:06

at developing players because I

36:08

think that this is again and it's part

36:10

of reason why we had you on here

36:12

is because you're a football guy like me

36:15

and I think basketball guys don't see it

36:17

this way traditionally they see like alright a

36:19

guy is drafted either he turns

36:21

into something or he doesn't and it's

36:23

a complete referendum on them whereas yes

36:26

in football we appreciate that the culture

36:28

matters the system matters because football is

36:30

a lot more complex all these things

36:32

matter to the development of a super

36:35

talented player and I think that

36:38

the fact that they've done this over and

36:40

over and over again suggested

36:42

me that it's not about picking

36:44

the best players

36:46

but it's picking players for them in developing them

36:48

in the system like they have a clear theory

36:51

and understanding for what they want to do and they stick

36:53

to it and it works in the last thing I know

36:55

I'm rambling the last thing I'll put out there is I

36:59

know we all think of Oklahoma City

37:01

as a major disadvantage as far as

37:03

recruiting free agents but I think that

37:05

oftentimes with restraint or any sort of

37:08

constraint is it like it opens up

37:10

a different way of thinking so they

37:12

go into a world where they're like

37:14

you know what yeah we we

37:17

have max salaries so we can't even overpay to

37:19

get a start we are never gonna get anyone

37:21

to come to Oklahoma City let's figure out a

37:23

different way to do it and the result of

37:25

that is they've come up with a better way

37:28

and like you see that in a bunch of

37:30

different industries throughout history is that the constraints are

37:32

what leads to the best innovations now I

37:34

was gonna say I'd be interested to see the data because

37:36

in football the data is that there are no super drafters

37:38

like there's not if you look at the player value just

37:40

doesn't exist Aussie Newsom is the best to ever do it

37:42

but even he had cold streaks the

37:45

Ted Thompson Packers John Schneider

37:47

well curious Fox like being

37:50

on the inside player development to me especially

37:52

in college with young players is

37:54

weight room it's just code for weight room and then

37:56

there's the scheme stuff then there's in basketball I'm sure

37:58

that there's You know, don't take

38:01

bad shots, teaching them efficiency, all that stuff. But

38:03

I'm curious, Fox, how they're on the inside. Like,

38:05

I know it's a massive question. It could mean

38:07

anything to anybody, but like, what is player development

38:09

to you? Like, what, when you get into a

38:11

football program and you can say, oh, this place

38:13

is different because they teach you what,

38:16

like, what does that even mean? Yeah, I think

38:18

it's about customization. Um, and it's,

38:20

so player development starts with the selection.

38:22

You, and this is a very famous

38:24

like thing associated with Bill Belichick in

38:26

football is like, I focus on what

38:28

the players do well. Can do. Yeah.

38:30

So you find the thing that they do

38:32

well and it makes sure it's something that's

38:34

important to the system that you're running. If

38:36

it's not changed your system. And then from

38:38

that point on, I think it's about focusing

38:41

on the areas that need improvement in the

38:43

areas that can be improved and is mostly

38:45

in these games. You didn't mention, I mean,

38:47

I guess, um, in an ancillary way, you

38:49

kind of mentioned the mental part. That's the

38:51

big part. That's the big part is

38:53

understanding what to look for. And while

38:55

you're doing that, you don't want to lose the fundamentals. I

38:58

know the best season I had in my probably

39:01

football career was when I had

39:03

Emmett Thomas as a dedicated cornerback.

39:06

I never had at any other level in

39:08

my life, high school, college, any other pro

39:10

team. We had a DB coach. We

39:13

never had a dedicated cornerback coach. And

39:15

I would spend every day with him

39:17

when I was at the Falcons, going

39:20

over basic technique. And

39:22

like you think most coaches like they know

39:24

how to play football. No, we don't.

39:26

We forget, we get loose on the technique. So

39:28

I think all of that matters. And I think

39:30

that's probably why we're at ship England fits into

39:33

this conversation and that he's

39:35

a dedicated shooting coach. What's the most important

39:37

thing? What is everybody looking for shooting? It's,

39:39

it's interesting. It's also like, yeah, it's

39:42

organizational stability. Ah,

39:44

man. Because pressies drafting guys who are long, who

39:47

can handle, who can pass. They're trying to get

39:49

this shooting developed afterwards. And like they've

39:51

taken a bunch of bites at the apple. I mean,

39:53

the SGA trades may go down as one of the

39:55

best trades in NBA history for someone who's the top

39:57

two MVP candidate and is still emerging and they

39:59

got that. for Paul George's relief along with now

40:02

they have 15 draft picks before 2030. Do

40:05

you think SGA, I

40:07

guess this is a similar question online we were talking

40:09

about, do you think SGA would have been this

40:12

version of himself if he stayed

40:14

with the Clippers? Probably not. Being

40:16

like a third option, Kawhi's in and out of

40:19

the lineup, team's more in the frame. It

40:22

depends what kind of motivation he has.

40:25

Would he have fit with big egos

40:27

as a role player, fighting his time,

40:30

developing? You talked about customization.

40:32

It's also customization for, my

40:35

whole thing on quarterback is geography is destiny. If

40:38

you don't get to spread your wings, do you ever spread your

40:40

wings? I think that's the biggest thing. It's

40:44

possible that SGA would have said, I have to be the

40:46

best role player in the history of the Clippers. That's

40:49

his destiny. He's making $25 million

40:51

for the rest of his career to be

40:53

just an awesome third option. It's possible. Talking

40:56

about the Thunder and talking about circumstance, I feel

40:58

like we have to at least mention James Harden

41:00

as the player who was on track

41:04

to be a great six man and then went on

41:06

to be like, I know we can talk

41:08

about it as all his goals, but yeah, it went on

41:10

to become a system all in itself. Anyway, Charlie, I cut

41:12

you off mid-question. No, I just wanted- It's been a lot

41:14

for the ESPN2 audience. I wanted to

41:17

just put a button on this and be like this

41:19

thing that's really fun and interesting about this. The

41:21

Thunder, along with the Wolves, have been the two healthiest teams all

41:24

season. Both teams feel like they have infinite

41:26

timelines where they can be good now, they can be

41:28

good in the future because of young stars, but it's

41:30

exciting because this team, even though they've

41:32

played lackluster opponents in the first two rounds

41:34

because of injury, they could

41:36

win the title this year. You never know if they're going to

41:38

get another shot to be this good and it's really

41:41

interesting. All right, guys, final question.

41:45

Have you seen this? Have you heard about this? Austin

41:47

Rivers has sort of taken over the internet. His quote- I

41:50

can't wait. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

41:52

I'm going to let Kevin

41:55

respond to it and then I'm going off because this

41:57

pisses me off. Anyway, go ahead. I'm just- I'm impressed

41:59

Charlie's in Jay Leno mode. Have you seen this? Have

42:01

you seen this? Have you heard about this? Well,

42:05

well have you heard this quote this is folks

42:09

Austin Rivers son of Glen dock rivers was on Pat

42:11

McAfee ever heard of him ever heard of him Kevin

42:14

He said I could take 30 players

42:16

right now in the NBA and throw

42:18

them in the NFL You cannot take

42:20

30 NFL players and put them in

42:22

the NBA. This made people big mad.

42:25

It made JJ Watt Angry,

42:27

so you don't have a job Austin Rivers Our

42:30

friend of the program Chris Long was really mad. Gojo

42:33

is really mad pissed off a lot of NFL

42:35

guys Dominique Foxworth NFL

42:37

player your thoughts. Nope. Nope. It

42:39

pissed off a Dan Orlowski also. Oh, yeah,

42:41

I Enraged

42:44

by this but I want to hear what Kevin has to

42:46

say because maybe he'll have some better reasoning

42:49

than I do I think that I am

42:52

on everybody that you just mentioned side I do

42:54

not think that that is that Austin Rivers is

42:56

anyway, correct. I think that there are Cheely

42:59

of readings that would give them more confidence. Here's what I

43:01

mean Like if you guys did you guys see the video

43:03

of Micah Parsons against the sumo wrestler last week? Mm-hmm. Do

43:05

you guys see that the sumo wrestler handles them pretty well,

43:08

and there were people who were saying Just

43:10

openly question like why why why isn't there? You

43:13

know more consideration just having the biggest people possible

43:15

The answer is you would get them moving left

43:17

to right and it will be over and Micah

43:19

Parsons would would murder that person I guess you

43:21

could play him a guard the sumo wrestler guard

43:23

and just kind of scheme around him or whatever

43:26

But like it wouldn't actually work But there are

43:28

you know once in a blue moon a couple

43:30

of moves that someone could put on user athleticism

43:32

of their size That would help but

43:35

the physicality the the

43:37

difference in athleticism the difference in in body

43:39

mass and how it's constructed like the toughness

43:42

part of it like I I

43:45

just don't think I mean we're getting into like there's

43:47

always a thing about what it whoa What if the

43:49

best Americans played soccer? What about an Iverson played striker?

43:52

Like I promise you it's a

43:54

different skill set I would like to

43:56

say that all guys that's enough. That

43:58

is quite enough I

44:01

was cooking. I was cooking. But you was

44:03

cooking the wrong meal because you're dead wrong.

44:05

I'm team Austin Rivers. What the hell? I

44:08

hate that I have to throw my

44:10

brethren under the, what is

44:12

it, the train, the bus, or something, whatever. But

44:15

this stinks of

44:17

people who had never actually been around basketball

44:19

players. And I was like this at one

44:22

point. I used to think like the best

44:24

athletes in the world. Joe Ingalls

44:26

is going to turn into Justin Jefferson. OK, yeah,

44:28

you can pick Joe Ingalls if you want. But

44:31

the NBA is not made up of a bunch

44:33

of Joe Ingalls. The point is, it's going to

44:35

be hard for either. But let's be honest about

44:38

the level of athlete that's in football.

44:41

There are like really great athletes. I think this is

44:43

the analogy that I would make, especially

44:45

with the modernization of basketball in

44:47

that you can't get away with being

44:49

an enforcer or a rebound or a

44:52

defensive specialist. Everybody can handle the ball

44:54

and shoot in a way that is

44:56

rare. And they are also like 6'3

44:58

is short. This

45:01

is absurd. If you think that I could

45:03

make a tackle tomorrow, give me any wing

45:06

in the NBA, bulk him up. You

45:10

think that he can't kick slide? All

45:13

the intricate footwork that they do with

45:15

the ball in their hand, I've played.

45:18

And this might be coloring my perception.

45:21

You remember Birdman, basketball player?

45:23

Yeah, for Henderson. Yeah, I played when he

45:25

was in Denver. He was suspended for something.

45:27

So he came to our local 24-hour field.

45:31

He was suspended a lot. So he does not narrow

45:33

it down. Yeah, he was suspended a lot. But anyway,

45:35

the point is, he played with us. He

45:39

showed up. And we had a bunch of

45:41

football players, really great athletes, awesome

45:43

high school basketball players. He was

45:45

the best shooter and ball handler on the floor.

45:48

And the Nuggets wouldn't even let him shoot. He

45:50

was just out there. And I

45:54

think this is the best way I can explain it, is

45:57

there are a select number of

45:59

skill players. positions in football, where

46:03

you are required to have

46:05

a level of artistry

46:08

that is rare. But

46:11

football is made up of a

46:13

lot of blue collar employees that

46:15

are just explosive athletes. There's

46:18

a lot of essential workers that

46:20

aren't surgeons in the NFL. The

46:23

NBA, they are all freaking

46:27

surgeons. I

46:29

used to think that football players are

46:31

the best athletes. If you think about just in

46:34

sheer numbers, how many people

46:36

in the world grow up playing football?

46:38

American men. How many people

46:40

in the world grow up playing basketball? A

46:43

lot more. How many people get to the

46:45

NBA? A much smaller number than the numbers

46:47

that get to the NFL. It's just like

46:49

by numbers. And what would you rather do?

46:52

All of us football players found out that

46:54

we were the third best basketball player in

46:56

our high school, but the best football

46:58

players that we gave up basketball. We would have

47:01

stuck with it and been Michael Jordan if we

47:03

could have. And I'm just being honest with all

47:05

of us. You know what? Name anybody

47:07

in football that you think could play an

47:09

NBA. Miles Garrett, you better get ready to

47:12

get your, I hope your visa and your

47:14

passport is up to date. You could play

47:16

basketball in China somewhere. Like

47:18

it's ridiculous. The level of athlete,

47:20

and he only said five. No one's arguing.

47:23

Your counterfactual is that you once lost him

47:25

pick up the Birdman Anderson. Like he's a

47:27

professional basketball player. Like of course he's good. What

47:29

I'm saying is you can't cross pollinate

47:31

or you can't just say, we can't have this conversation at

47:34

all. No, I'm saying that the NBA

47:36

guys can't play in the NFL and the NFL

47:38

guys can't play in the NBA. I completely disagree.

47:40

That's where we do. Zion couldn't be in the

47:42

NBA gates. I don't

47:44

think Zion could be Antonio Gates. Zion doesn't, would

47:46

never play. He can't, he can't, he gets hurt

47:49

just walking around the court. Now he's going to

47:51

get the free kick. Injury prizes are off in

47:53

this analogy. Either way, Zion could play in the

47:55

NFL, but I, I guess

47:58

maybe having been in an. NFL,

48:00

there are incredible athletes. But

48:02

the difference is everybody in the NBA is an

48:04

incredible athlete. Also they're 6'5",

48:06

and also they have the hand-eye

48:08

coordination that, and that's the point

48:10

about surgeons versus construction workers that

48:13

I was making before. It's like

48:15

some guys in the NFL, like

48:17

quarterbacks, have like unique

48:19

level of hand-eye coordination and proprioception.

48:22

Not everybody in the NFL does. Everybody

48:24

in the NBA kind of does. I hate

48:26

to admit it, I want to say that

48:29

our guys are better, but they ain't. If

48:31

I can drop a nugget, so

48:34

I talked to a couple people for a story

48:36

a couple years ago when Jimmy Graham had made

48:38

the switch. So Jimmy Graham obviously went from University

48:40

of Miami basketball to one year at Miami football,

48:43

was okay, and then becomes a huge star. I

48:45

actually just saw Jimmy Graham on Mac up here

48:47

today. He's an adventurer of some sort. Oh yeah,

48:49

no, he does endurance challenges and stuff to raise

48:52

money, right? Yeah, good for big Jim. I

48:55

was doing that, and I talked to Frank Aydes' coach, and he said

48:57

that it is a specific type of

48:59

basketball player who can make the leap eventually with

49:01

training. Remember, Jimmy Graham did play one

49:04

year of college football, so there's some training there, but

49:06

it was from Miami, so it was barely counted in

49:08

that era. But

49:10

he said, quick feet, because I believe he was number

49:12

one in the country. I'm going to argue with the

49:14

killer. I can't wait to get to the coach. At

49:16

drawn fouls, at drawn

49:18

charges, excuse me, number

49:20

one in the country, and then like top five in blocks.

49:22

So he can move vertically, he can move with his feet,

49:24

he can shuffle, all that stuff, right? And

49:27

then as part of that, an old scout, Gil Brandt, told me that

49:29

the Cowboys used to have a suite at the

49:31

Final Four. This is in the 70s. They

49:33

had a suite at the Final Four, where they would

49:36

literally host the, you know,

49:38

if you've never been to the college Final Four,

49:40

it's kind of a boost for us for any

49:42

coach who's not actively participating. It was a little

49:44

bit like the combine in that regard. So they

49:46

just bring in these guys from Michigan State, and

49:48

be like, hey, you got any guys who are

49:50

6'8", might be good tackles. And that produced a

49:52

couple of really, really good players. But they stopped

49:55

doing it, because eventually it was diminishing returns. Yes,

49:57

you can get some, but you don't have a

49:59

lot of time. limited training camp spots. You don't have

50:01

time. Can I take a quick time out? Can I take

50:03

a quick time out? Yeah, yes, yes. I'm

50:06

gonna give me a long time out. How

50:08

many, no, a quick time out. You just

50:10

told that story. That is evidence to my

50:12

point. How many NBA teams went to bowl

50:14

games and hung around talking about, hey, got any

50:16

guys that ain't gonna make it to the NFL

50:19

that we can slide over here to who with

50:21

none? Yeah, because there's 90 guys in

50:23

training camp. Back then it was like 150 guys. Back

50:26

then he just signed up for a sheet. It

50:28

was like, it was like, barely

50:31

softball. My point is that the

50:33

NFL coaches recognize that the lower

50:35

end of basketball talent could play in

50:37

the NFL. No NBA coach ever looked

50:39

at a football game and said, you

50:41

know what? Some of them five,

50:43

nine dudes sure could work over here. Like

50:46

it's just nonsense. Anyway, my quick time out.

50:48

No, but it's the same. It's the same.

50:50

It's certain body types that work in both

50:52

sports. I mean, that's the pre-rese. That's

50:55

why you'd be doing it. Are you done? You're gonna

50:57

finally kill the argument. I hate that I'm on this

50:59

side, but I gotta be on the side of truth.

51:02

Okay, all time greatest

51:04

athletes in the NFL, where

51:07

would you rank Julius Peppers? Top

51:10

10, top five, top three?

51:13

I mean, top 25, certainly. Okay,

51:16

he was a mediocre college

51:19

basketball player at UNC. That's

51:23

it, that's it. Ronald Curry

51:26

was a basketball player at UNC also,

51:28

and football player. Man played in NFL,

51:30

couldn't play in the NBA. You got

51:32

Charlie Ward, that's it. And you know

51:35

what? To my other point, if any

51:37

of us could have chosen basketball, we

51:39

freaking would. Charlie Ward had a choice

51:41

and he was like, you know what,

51:44

I'm good. All right, let

51:46

me ask you a little racism at times. Oh

51:48

yeah, Charlie did have a little racism

51:50

mixed in, which is also why the

51:52

NBA is better. Paolo

51:54

Bancaro, Paolo Bancaro goes

51:56

through with it. Okay, let's just say

51:59

it. Great.

52:01

So he goes through it, plays quarterback. No,

52:03

no, no, no, no, no, no. That's what

52:05

he played! No, I understand that. But my

52:07

point is that's the one position where I

52:09

do think that... Well, that's one of the

52:11

few positions where I do think that there's

52:13

a level of skill that not everyone

52:15

has. But honestly, the

52:18

traits that NBA players have

52:20

would probably be better. And

52:23

those NBA traits would work to be a quarterback.

52:25

But anyway, fine. Well, but like, Anthony Black, great

52:27

example. So Anthony Black,

52:29

Bruce Feldman wrote a piece last draft basically saying

52:31

that if he wanted to be recruited

52:34

as a college player, he would have been a total stud.

52:36

But Anthony Black went in the lottery. He would not

52:38

have been a top 20, top 30 pick in the NFL. I

52:43

just don't... I think it's completely different skill sets.

52:46

I'm not good at any sport, no part for me

52:48

to... No, I think you're right. There are different skill

52:50

sets, but I think that it's more likely to find

52:52

it. Like, you think Paulo Bencaro probably has to work

52:54

to keep weight off. He's 6'10",

52:57

and he has the footwork of

52:59

a defensive back. No

53:01

one would get around him if we could

53:04

just teach him how to kick slide. He'd

53:06

be the best tackle in NFL history,

53:09

offensive tackle. Or he'd be an incredible

53:11

pass rusher. Like, that's the thing is, if

53:13

you were to... And

53:15

I've played sports with other professional

53:17

athletes, and then I'm like shocked

53:19

because like, oh, yeah, they

53:22

make them like us, but just bigger. And

53:24

that's the NBA guys are like us, but

53:26

bigger. And maybe there's some toughness component. Okay,

53:29

we can sort through. Maybe there are a couple basketball guys

53:31

who can't take a hit. Sure, but there's a lot of

53:33

them who are tough and can take a hit. Can I

53:35

tell one story really quick that I always thought was really

53:37

funny, which is just that, did you know

53:40

that Tony Allen was ineligible to play high

53:42

school sports, so he was a dominant tight

53:44

end under a fake name playing high school

53:46

football? What? Wow, I didn't

53:48

know that. I want a happy note by everyone agreeing

53:51

that I'm right. I'm sorry, football guys, but you're

53:53

all wrong. Just a height. Yeah,

53:55

so NBA players could play in the

53:58

NFL, not vice versa. Yeah. Like,

54:00

6'5 is like average for them. 6'5

54:03

is huge for us. Anyway,

54:05

all fun and games. Thank

54:09

you for joining us. Do

54:11

I have to thank you and your mustache separately, or

54:13

can I just get one blanket thank you? The mustache

54:15

will get back to you. All right. Appreciate it, Kevin

54:17

Clark. Thanks. Till next time, Charlie

54:20

Kravitz, awesome job. I appreciate you as usual.

54:22

You're the man. Shout out to Podville. I

54:24

love you and all our great producers, Meg and

54:26

Sarah, Fina, Kevin, and Brian. Kravitz

54:29

is a coward. This is the

54:31

Dominique Foxmerf Show.