0:00

Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast,

0:02

where Dr. Stephen Gundry shares his

0:04

groundbreaking research from over 25 years

0:07

of treating patients with diet and

0:09

lifestyle changes alone. Dr. Gundry

0:11

and other wellness experts offer

0:14

inspiring stories, the latest scientific

0:16

advancements, and practical tips to

0:18

empower you to take control of your health

0:20

and live a long, happy life. Happy

0:24

New Year, everyone. As you embark on

0:26

your resolutions for a healthier and more

0:28

active lifestyle, I'm here to ensure you

0:31

kick off the ear on the right

0:33

foot. Literally. In this

0:35

episode, I dive into a

0:37

crucial, yet often overlooked aspect

0:39

of our well-being, our feet.

0:41

Joining me is Stephen Soshen,

0:43

a master's All-American sprinter and

0:45

entrepreneur who has immersed himself

0:47

in the realm of natural

0:50

foot movement and its profound

0:52

impact on our overall health.

0:54

Stephen shows light on how

0:56

your choice of footwear may

0:58

be negatively affecting your health

1:00

and introduces us to zero

1:03

shoes. This innovative brand surpasses

1:05

traditional footwear by emulating the

1:07

experience of going barefoot. Discover

1:09

the reasons these shoes outshine

1:11

popular running shoes and gain

1:13

practical insights from Stephen on

1:16

reclaiming proper form and connecting

1:18

with your roots to enhance

1:20

athletic performance. If you're eager

1:22

to make a significant change

1:24

in your fitness routine for better

1:26

results, this episode is tailored for

1:28

you. So join us as we

1:31

take a step towards healthier feet

1:33

and a more vibrant you in

1:35

the year ahead. The

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in all states and situations. So

3:00

you are a master's

3:02

all-American sprinter. Tell

3:05

us how you became aware of the

3:07

dangers of traditional footwear. Well, so being

3:09

a master's all-American sprinter means for men

3:11

over 60, which I am now. I'm

3:13

one of the fastest guys in the

3:15

country. And that happened in part

3:18

because of this transition we're going to talk about.

3:20

So 15 years ago is when I got back

3:22

into sprinting after a 30-year break. And I spent

3:24

the next two years getting injured pretty

3:27

much constantly. And I was

3:29

living in Boulder, Colorado. And one day a

3:31

friend of mine who's a world champion runner,

3:33

which in Boulder means you're a neighbor because

3:35

they're everywhere, said to me,

3:38

why don't you try running barefoot and see what you

3:40

learn. Now, I'm not going to suggest people running barefoot,

3:42

even though it changed my life. We'll get there. So

3:44

don't panic. But what I learned is simply this. I

3:47

had a form problem that I couldn't feel in

3:49

a regular shoe because of all the padding, all

3:51

the cushioning, and just some other issues as well.

3:53

And when you're running barefoot, running

3:56

with bad form hurts. And running with good

3:58

form feels good and good form. to

8:00

be. And it's forgetting in the

8:02

way of natural function. Let's look at another one

8:04

that's really easy. There's an elevated heel on almost

8:06

all these shoes. When you elevate

8:08

your heel, that changes your posture, tips you forward

8:10

just a little bit, but then you have to

8:12

accommodate that. You need to do something with your

8:15

ankles, your knees, your hips, your back to accommodate

8:17

the change of your posture. Well,

8:19

this is why people end up with knee

8:21

pain, hip pain, back pain, ankle pain, because

8:23

those joints aren't made to handle that kind

8:25

of force. So simply the elevated

8:27

heel, and most people think about high heels.

8:29

They know that's silly, but even just a

8:31

little bit of elevation changes your posture just

8:33

enough that it caused problems in all these

8:35

other joints. All right, here's where actually

8:38

I'll do one that's a little less controversial than the one I'm

8:40

going to end on. So you

8:42

have over 200,000 nerves

8:45

in the soles of each of your foot, soles of

8:47

each of your foot, each of your feet. Let's do plural. What the

8:49

hell? That's there. Those

8:51

are there for a reason is to tell your brain

8:54

and your body, basically your spine

8:56

first for reflexes and your brain for every other

8:58

motion you do, what you're stepping on,

9:01

what you're stepping in, what the terrain is, so that

9:03

you can move efficiently and effectively and

9:05

enjoyably. Well, imagine what happens

9:07

if you don't give that information to your brain. It

9:10

makes you say you can't balance as well. You

9:12

don't have as good. Your agility isn't as good.

9:15

Your ability isn't as good. And your brain literally

9:17

changes its shape to stop paying attention to your

9:19

feet. This is not a good

9:21

thing. Well, when you have a bunch

9:23

of foam between you and the ground, guess what happens?

9:26

That feedback loop disappears, or

9:29

not necessarily disappears, but is highly,

9:31

highly muted. And more importantly,

9:33

when your brain's getting this information, the

9:36

first thing that it wants to do is move

9:38

your feet to deal with that balance, agility, and

9:40

mobility. You have a quarter of the bones and

9:42

joints of your entire body in your feet and

9:44

ankles. Joints are supposed to move.

9:46

If the shoe you have has a stiff sole,

9:48

this one doesn't even bend in a spot where

9:51

your foot naturally bends. If your

9:53

shoe has a stiff sole, you can't get

9:55

that balance, agility, and mobility for

9:57

one. And if you have

14:00

before we do the physics. Actually, it's related to physics.

14:03

All cushioning is essentially designed to

14:05

handle a particular weight at a

14:07

particular speed. The speed has

14:09

to do with how much the foam can uncompress after

14:11

it compresses, and the weight has to do with how

14:13

dense the foam is. If

14:15

you're not that weight running at that speed,

14:18

the foam actually gets in the way of

14:20

proper performance. Same thing with walking, actually. In

14:22

fact, a company whose name I won't mention,

14:24

but it rhymes with Mikey, they

14:27

claim they

14:29

have an ad where they say one of their

14:31

new shoes gives you this sensation of propelling you

14:33

forward. Ah, yes. Well, it

14:35

gives you that sensation, because as your heel

14:37

is coming off the ground, the foam uncompresses

14:40

faster than your heel's moving off the ground,

14:42

so it feels like it's tapping you in

14:44

the heel, but it's not doing anything. It

14:46

gives you a feeling of something happening. But

14:48

the feeling is where things get really interesting from the physics

14:50

side. What cushioning

14:53

does is it spreads out the pressure

14:55

that your foot would otherwise feel, but

14:58

it doesn't change the amount of force that's going

15:00

into your body. And when your

15:02

foot can't feel it, you tend to land

15:04

with your foot slightly in front of your

15:06

body, usually on your heel, with your leg

15:08

pretty much outstretched, which means that

15:11

force is going past your foot, into your ankle,

15:13

your knee, your hip, and your back. Interestingly,

15:16

if you wanna study knee

15:20

osteoarthritis with animals, you take a rabbit,

15:22

you straighten its leg, and you hit its heel, just

15:24

like what I described humans do with every step in

15:26

a cushion shoe. And then

15:29

it gets arthritis. Then when they wanna compare some

15:31

new arthritis drug to the control, what they do

15:33

is they just stop hitting the heel of the

15:35

rabbit, and it gets better. So

15:38

the cushioning, it never existed prior

15:41

to the early 70s, and everybody

15:43

was totally fine. And

15:45

we just now have a million people who've reported the

15:47

same thing. So, and

15:49

actually, last thing about cushioning, a

15:52

giant can of worms. It

15:54

can feel really good, admittedly. Lying on

15:57

a memory foam mattress feels great. Sitting

15:59

on a... memory foam, chair

16:01

feels great. There's lots of things that

16:03

feel great, that taste great, that look

16:05

great, that are not good for us.

16:08

And cushioning is one of those things. Gets

16:10

in the way of natural movement, gets in

16:12

the way of proper sensation that you need

16:14

for balance, agility, mobility, breaks down, affects everything.

16:17

It can feel really good when you're in the

16:19

shoe store, but feeling good is not the most

16:21

important thing. And frankly, I would argue, only because

16:23

we have hundreds of thousands of people who told

16:25

us that getting out of something big and padded,

16:27

using your muscles like a mince and tendons, is

16:30

actually more comfortable than when

16:32

you're using something that gets in the way.

16:34

All right. Now, you're

16:37

preaching to the choir, because we

16:39

were talking off camera, that I

16:42

started using Barefoot Shoes 20

16:44

years ago, because I

16:46

was a late runner. My

16:51

wife was a

16:53

really good marathoner, finished

16:56

the 100th running of the Boston Marathon.

16:59

She talked me into running, because I didn't

17:01

want to. And

17:03

I developed, oh, you name

17:05

it, I

17:08

had a shin splint, so I developed arthritis

17:10

in my knees, had to wear braces on

17:12

my knees, but running was good for

17:14

me, right? And I

17:16

was doing five, 10Ks every weekend,

17:18

and half marathons, and I

17:21

was swallowing NSAIDs because of my knees,

17:23

and it was good for me. Right.

17:27

And it's funny, after

17:30

I changed my shoes... Well,

17:34

pause right there. What was the thing that

17:36

inspired you to look into your shoes? Is

17:38

there something to change to solve what was

17:40

going on? Because most people just keep trying

17:42

the same, a variation of a theme year

17:44

after year after year. Well, the odd thing

17:47

is, I'm old enough

17:49

to have worn earth shoes.

17:52

Yeah. Hey, stand in line.

17:55

Yeah, that's really old. It

18:01

occurred to me that having

18:03

a heel that was raised

18:06

was probably the most unnatural

18:08

thing that I could

18:10

possibly use. As

18:13

I was researching arthritis, the

18:16

idea of a heel strike, which of

18:19

course you're taught to do back

18:21

in the good old days, seemed to

18:24

be exactly what you were saying,

18:26

that that just transmitted some

18:29

rather impressive force upward. Whether

18:32

your knee took it or whether your

18:34

hip took it or both took it.

18:37

Even up to your neck. That's

18:40

true, right up to the neck. And

18:43

so I said, something's got to give.

18:45

The other thing, I have, quote,

18:48

a wide foot. And

18:50

you're right, all of these shoes cram

18:52

you into a narrow footbed. There

18:56

are some that are a little better than others. But,

18:58

yeah, you're right. It

19:01

just seemed unnatural. So

19:04

that's what led me to that. And so then you made

19:06

the switch and? And that's what I

19:09

want to get into. It takes

19:11

to me an adjustment. The first thing

19:13

that I found happening was I was

19:16

running on my toes. And

19:19

that, turns out, is a very smart thing

19:21

to do. Even at

19:23

distance. The sprinter obviously runs on their toes.

19:26

Even at distance, toe runs. Let

19:29

me address that a little bit. Some people get the

19:31

mistaken idea that they just need to land on their

19:33

toes. And they'll still reach their foot out in front

19:35

of their body and point their toes, which is the

19:37

worst thing you could do. And

19:39

so it's really not so much about landing on

19:41

your toes as much as landing with your foot

19:44

more underneath your center of mass, underneath your body.

19:46

And when you do that, it's impossible to land on your heel.

19:49

But that doesn't mean that you keep your heel off the ground.

19:53

You're actually engaging your arch, which is the first

19:55

line of defense. The strongest

19:57

structure ever discovered is an arch.

24:00

Nor mall and this is abnormal.

24:02

Army does up. It means shoes

24:04

have always had heels haven't they

24:06

will? That was an easy mister

24:08

Dispel The answer is no Okay.

24:10

Moving on. Op's

24:13

know heels It I mean there's there's

24:16

a lot of arguments and debates about

24:18

how heels above some was because of

24:20

the people who were having she was

24:22

made for them in the early days

24:24

are getting shoes made were like royalty

24:26

and so and many of his wanted

24:28

to be taller. Sunset Deputy Moustache. And

24:30

saying some people say it was because people

24:32

were riding horses they needed something for their

24:34

stirrups When there's lots and lots of reasons

24:36

for it's all I can tell us when

24:38

it comes to athletic shoes in particular are

24:40

to gave you the reason it was you

24:42

know some doctors who just pull something out

24:44

there button gave it to be the most

24:47

important shoemaker in the world the time Yeah

24:49

you could. You can look at the Egyptians

24:51

right at your you look at the Greeks,

24:53

the Egyptian their their meals. Now go to

24:55

any. I say go to any place that

24:57

doesn't have indoor plumbing. You won't find heels

24:59

in their. Shoes. That's

25:01

a good point. You

25:04

Live. We often find ourselves compromise

25:06

whether it's settling for a house

25:08

with a smaller yard, accepting a

25:10

dream job with a lengthy to

25:13

mute word, dining at a restaurant

25:15

with excellent food but subpar service?

25:17

Yeah, when it comes to your

25:19

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25:21

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25:26

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Com slash Gondry. Are

26:29

either So getting back so way out

26:31

walking barefoot stickley indoors is is a

26:34

great is a great idea. I I

26:36

personally have tried barefoot outside. I don't

26:38

enjoy it cause I I would have

26:41

towers stood to take those little things

26:43

was about calluses because and people think

26:45

that it's all about building palaces. But

26:47

if you find those of us who

26:50

spent a lot of time before outdoors

26:52

we don't have talus feats. The skin

26:54

is gotten a little bit thicker but

26:57

that's not a at were. So little

26:59

more responsive and aware of what we're doing.

27:01

I'm not. Again, I'm not suggesting people do

27:03

it's I just enjoy it. It's fun. I

27:05

like the feeling I get the feedback. So

27:07

I spend a lot of time barefoot and

27:09

frankly I'm when I'm not there for I

27:11

were mismatch colors and my shoes. So it's

27:13

this. the tests as in Pasco, The line

27:15

after the pharmacy and the guy behind me

27:17

says hey, your shoes don't match and the

27:19

pharmacists without looking up or missing a beat

27:21

says she's wearing shoes so it's fine if

27:24

you like it. If not, again, that's why

27:26

relics barefoot as is ideal but the reason

27:28

that we have a business. Is for when

27:30

it's not the most appropriate thing. We

27:32

were. Talking. Off camera.

27:34

But let's say that

27:36

because. There's. A there's

27:38

popularity and running shoes

27:40

called Zero Drop Shoes

27:42

threat and a lot

27:44

of the Zero Drop

27:46

shoes nevertheless have a

27:48

ton of questioning drag.

27:51

Explained Zero Drops choose to people

27:53

who don't know what that means

27:55

and go from there. While the

27:57

simple things: zero, the drop, It.

28:00

The difference between the height of your heel

28:02

and the height of your the ball your

28:04

foot we're standing so he zero drops you

28:06

means there's no difference, your the ball, your

28:08

foot is same height as your heel or

28:10

more deals at the same height as Oliphant

28:12

which Everly it went to see it's but

28:14

as you said you saw the bunch of

28:16

cushioning underneath a zero drop shoe an actress

28:18

All the problems are we just described you

28:20

lose the feelings issue becomes stiffer which inhibits

28:23

motion and more feedback and Dallas and agility.

28:25

and the higher you get off the ground.

28:27

this is really simple list as you still

28:29

says an example Stilts. Are hard to balance.

28:31

While it's true, even when your shoe is,

28:33

you know that doesn't have to be very

28:35

high off the grounds that the higher gets

28:37

the harder it is to balanced and some

28:39

of the things they make to improve your

28:42

balance the slayer, the soul out actually makes

28:44

it harder to balance because the way or

28:46

foot lands on that else that flared solve

28:48

changes the way your foot contacts the ground

28:50

and can make it harder to adapt, especially

28:52

if you're not getting that feedback. So it

28:54

was in her. It was an idea that

28:56

damn it started out sounded good, but there's

28:59

a bunch of reasons. Why doesn't pan out

29:01

of the feedback being the number one

29:03

thing? Back to Irene Davis' research. She

29:05

refers to shoes in a are minimal

29:07

issues and two categories minimalist and parcel

29:09

minimalists and I asked her privately if

29:11

fund if she wasn't trying to be

29:13

politically correct if she would call them

29:16

real minimalist and safe minimalist and she

29:18

said yeah, pretty much of and the

29:20

real the difference is the shoes that

29:22

still have that excessive amount of padding

29:24

and it doesn't take very much. Again,

29:26

limits the amount of feedback you're getting

29:28

so it makes it harder. To make

29:30

those gate changes again says about form not

29:32

footwear. It makes it harder to get that

29:34

see back that makes the gate changes that

29:37

makes you let your use, that makes it

29:39

so that you can use your body, were

29:41

naturally using your muscles, ligaments and sentenced to

29:43

way they're supposed to be used and so

29:45

and she says that those shoes are actually

29:47

worse for you. Then. He truly barefoot

29:49

shoe because they're still letting you over stride.

29:52

He'll strides put all that force and your

29:54

body not feel. It's not because gate changes

29:56

and here's a crazy part. Most people doing

29:58

that they don't know. They're doing it. I

30:01

did some research with Doctor Bills as in

30:03

the lab with a Doctor Bill sans use

30:05

the former head of Bio Mechanics for the

30:07

Us Olympic Committee. And we

30:09

took a bunch of of people who are

30:11

even. They claim that they were bear for

30:13

runners that they are usually and like and

30:16

other fights in your shoes and there are

30:18

certain versions of that Five fingers. you still

30:20

had a bunch of padding and we watch

30:22

people who when they were in bare feet

30:24

had perfect form. And when

30:27

they put on even something that most

30:29

people thought of as a barefoot shoe

30:31

as five finger shoes, suddenly they were

30:33

over striding, she'll striking, putting more force

30:35

through their bodies and a kick his

30:38

they had no idea they were doing

30:40

it. Ah, you and I have a

30:42

have a friend who used to have

30:44

five Fingers use since. Ah yes, because

30:47

the guy who were referring to hear.

30:49

So why do. What's. Wrong

30:51

with So Susan, how did you talk

30:53

our mutual friend out of those shoes

30:55

of it's well besides of whack with

30:58

a stink see at wealth in the

31:00

early days when I started zero issues

31:02

myself I built people and five fingers

31:04

I said to questions when did they

31:06

rip and how bad the they smell

31:08

and people had answers. Both of those

31:10

So the saddest thing spit my feet.

31:13

I probably would have never started this

31:15

companies companies but I have Morton's Tell

31:17

which most people think others meeting your

31:19

second toes longer the your. first it

31:21

really means your first is too short soviets

31:23

but regardless they didn't sit my foot properly

31:25

so that talk me out of it i

31:28

have no problem with the way they look

31:30

because i do a lot of weird things

31:32

anyway my don't have any normal bicycles i

31:34

have like a tic scooter in and of

31:36

elliptical bicycle it's crazy stuff so i don't

31:38

mind that at all i mean i have

31:41

this hair clearly i don't care system of

31:43

both aren't but since they didn't sit my

31:45

foot i didn't have that option and the

31:47

again the issue is simply that if there's

31:49

enough cushioning is the same as having a

31:51

shoe the smell is she was an issue

31:54

the fit issue is an issue of there's

31:56

one thing as in a set some people

31:58

they just have an identity go around

32:00

whatever they're doing. So our

32:03

mutual friend, he referred to them as

32:05

male birth control shoes. So,

32:09

and I think the only other brand that

32:11

can claim that is Crocs, but

32:13

I think that works for both men and women for Crocs. And

32:16

so, the

32:18

challenge, it was actually easy for him to switch from

32:20

those to zero shoes. I just had to make him

32:22

a pair, because he's a size 16. And

32:25

we only went up to size 15. So I

32:27

said, let's give it a shot. I made a pair. He put

32:29

them on, he called and said, this is all I'm gonna

32:31

wear. Very good. Okay,

32:33

we've been kind of talking, you're a runner. No,

32:37

I'm a sprinter. Yeah, I apologize, yeah.

32:39

Yeah, I go very fast in a

32:41

straight line for a very short distance.

32:43

That is very smart. Running,

32:46

you're correct. Running is really bad for you,

32:48

and we won't take today to talk about

32:50

that. Running is fine. Like, look, even on

32:52

the track, I hear there's a thing at

32:55

the end of the track, what

32:57

are they called, turns? Is that what it is? I mean,

32:59

I don't know, GPS watch. How am I supposed to do

33:02

that? Ah ha, so yeah, running a

33:04

straight line. Yeah. So,

33:06

but why, okay, I'm

33:08

going about my everyday business, and

33:10

I'm in my suit. Why

33:13

should I have a barefoot

33:15

shoe just to walk around? Well,

33:19

walking, standing, doing anything, again,

33:21

everything that makes a barefoot

33:23

shoe, and let me grab one just to describe this.

33:26

So first, wider foot shape toe box.

33:29

So you can do this with your toes, and spread and do

33:31

what's natural. Low to the ground for better balance and agility. We

33:33

don't elevate the heel. We don't know that thing called toe spring,

33:35

which puts strain on your toes. They're

33:37

super, super flexible. So again, I feel like

33:39

more just rolled it in a ball.

33:41

There again, the tread is there for traction

33:44

and protection, but also just FYI, this is

33:46

a unique thing to us. When

33:48

we decided to make shoes, most

33:51

shoe companies say you need to replace your shoes every two

33:53

to 500 miles. And

33:55

I knew that was just about planned obsolescence.

33:57

So we approached our rubber manufacturer and said,

36:00

one of the biggest banks in the world. And like

36:02

a whole bunch of super rich white guys. She

36:04

didn't know why she was there. But she was

36:06

kind of embarrassed because she was wearing one of

36:08

our kind of fun, pretty sandals. And

36:11

she made a comment to the CEO's assistant, who was the only

36:13

other woman in the room, saying, I feel it kind of bad

36:15

because of these sandals. And the woman says, are you kidding? I

36:17

want a pair of those. So the

36:19

comfort factor is huge. Building

36:22

up strength will let you wear heels for those

36:24

times you need heels. And that kind of covers

36:26

it. I mean, I'm not going to. Here's the

36:28

thing. There's a time and a place for everything. I'm not going to

36:30

talk people out of doing what they want to do 100% of the

36:32

time. We have lots of people

36:34

who've done that. In fact, over 60% of our

36:36

customers own more than four pairs

36:38

of our shoes. And I think the top 10% own over 20.

36:42

So they've made the complete transition for everything

36:45

they do. Because once you've experienced letting

36:47

your body do what it's made to do naturally, it's

36:49

kind of hard to go back. But there's times where

36:51

you do it because you want to look a particular

36:53

way or there's a particular thing you need to do.

36:55

And that's cool. So you want to be able to

36:57

survive that better. All right. So

37:03

it's OK for me to

37:06

wear these with a suit. I don't look geeky

37:09

or anything like that. Dude,

37:12

do you think I'm going to care if you look geeky? Oh,

37:14

I care. I don't care. Well,

37:17

we have a lot of people who wear a bunch

37:19

of our things for a bunch of different reasons. All

37:21

I can say is, let's see, in the end of

37:23

February, we are launching a number of

37:25

new products, including stuff that will look even better with

37:27

a suit. So the

37:30

way our product line has grown, from just

37:32

a do-it-yourself sandal kit to now over 30

37:34

different styles of shoes, boots, and sandals that

37:37

people wear for everything from taking a

37:39

walk to running ultra marathons to climbing Kilimanjaro

37:41

to going out dancing, is because

37:43

customers have told us, I love the shoe that

37:45

you made for this, but now I need a shoe for this. And

37:48

one of the big requests we've got is,

37:50

what can I wear with a suit? And

37:52

we have a number of black shoes or

37:54

white shoes, but we're making a few more

37:56

that are a little, one with really beautiful

37:58

full-grain leather and some vegan eyes. options as

38:00

well that will look better in those situations. All

38:02

right, I'm standing by. I'm standing by. I know

38:05

a guy who knows a guy. I'll hook you

38:07

up. All right. All

38:09

right. Okay, we talked about, you

38:11

know, getting, strengthening your ankles and

38:13

your arches and all that. Are

38:17

there exercises that are useful

38:20

for, you know, strengthening your

38:22

ankles and all? Yeah,

38:24

there are many of them. But

38:27

again, just walking and or running will

38:29

do more than almost anything else you can do. Okay.

38:33

But once you kind of get into this, you find yourself doing stuff

38:35

when you're just sitting around, when you're doing the dishes, when you're brushing

38:37

your teeth. So rather

38:39

than going into the giant list

38:41

of exercises, if you

38:43

search online for foot strengthening exercises, especially

38:46

if you search online for foot strengthening

38:48

exercises, BYU for Brigham Young University, because

38:50

that's where they did that foot strengthening

38:53

study, you'll find a number of exercises. Some of

38:55

them are really simple, literally just like squeeze your

38:57

toes together as hard as you can, spread your

38:59

toes apart, spread your toes apart

39:01

as far as you can. That's

39:03

a good one for building up ankle strength, stand on one

39:05

foot on the ball of your foot for as long as

39:07

you can. Bounce up

39:10

and down jumping rope, really, really

39:12

good for you, especially if you're going foot to foot instead

39:14

of just doing both feet at the same time. There's

39:17

an exercise called short foot. That's

39:19

a really good one where you want to

39:21

imagine the ball of your big toe and

39:23

your heel, you want to try

39:26

to pull them together, try to keep your toes as

39:28

relaxed as you can and try to pull the ball

39:30

of your big toe closer to your heel. It's

39:33

an isometric thing. You'll get barely

39:35

any motion, a couple of millimeters worth of motion

39:37

and your foot will probably cramp up, which means

39:39

that you need to build strength. And

39:42

so you can do that sitting, you can do that standing.

39:44

And so that short foot exercise, in fact, if you just

39:46

Google short foot, you'll find a bunch of people talking about

39:48

that. That's also a really, really good one. Another

39:51

thing I just brought to mind,

39:53

a lot of my female patients

39:55

have bunions and

39:58

some of them go through. Who.

40:01

Vanya nectar me which is not

40:03

a pleasant procedure. Now I actually

40:05

one of my nurse practitioners a

40:08

few years ago did that is

40:10

not fun. Is there any evidence

40:12

that? first of all there's a

40:14

lotta evidence that these things occur

40:16

because you're far as and graham

40:19

like yeah yeah there any evidence

40:21

so far as there, even a

40:23

thought that. Getting your foot

40:25

back in i'm abroad spread will help.

40:27

This serves. Look, we're both scientifically minded

40:29

people. I will be the first and

40:31

fast at anecdote. Do not equal data

40:34

in till you have a preponderance of

40:36

anecdotal information which is a data point.

40:38

So when I can say is I'm

40:40

not aware of any research yet that

40:42

shows that just by getting out of

40:44

constricting shoes and into something. Unless your

40:47

toes spread a little more or even

40:49

using toes spreaders, you can find his

40:51

silicone toes spreaders. Definitely

40:54

worse are deathly worse for everyone I

40:56

know. There's a guy named Dr. A.

40:58

Mcclanahan who's got a product called Correct

41:00

Toes and he's got a lot of

41:03

again anecdotal information from his customers. And

41:05

there's not a product from a company

41:07

called the Bozo and A B O

41:10

Eso which means barefoot in check Or

41:12

they have a product similarly. And that

41:14

companies owned and started by a surgical

41:16

podiatrist in daughter Emily squiggle so. But

41:19

I'm not aware of a longitudinal study

41:21

that shows this. I can say personally,

41:23

I. Didn't have big Burundians but I definitely

41:25

had my first. her pushing in a little

41:27

bit of you could actually see that that.

41:30

Joint. Right there was pushing out a little bits

41:32

and I was actually just looking at my feet the

41:34

other day noticing my big toes are like totally straight

41:36

now. Which. I didn't do

41:39

anything other than just use them

41:41

and it's is. So again, the

41:43

anecdotal data could not be more

41:45

clear. It takes time, not gonna

41:47

happen overnight, but again, let's just

41:49

go to the things that make

41:52

sense. If. Squeezing your toes as

41:54

bad on squeezing and can't be worse.

41:56

Sisters and of probably good and doing

41:58

a little dealer do something. Get

42:00

that extra movement in there with toes

42:02

spreaders. Were doing those exercises. literally. Trying

42:04

to spread your toes apart will be

42:06

helpful just the more you're walking or

42:09

the more you're running where you're allowing

42:11

your toes, The does can probably be

42:13

the the most beneficial thing all right?

42:15

Ah, I'm. You. Been working

42:17

at this a while now. I understand

42:20

you're working on a new book titled

42:22

Change Your shoes, change Your Life. You

42:25

are there any fascinating new studies from

42:27

that book that you can share with

42:30

our listeners? Today my saber studies are

42:32

the ones that I mention that the

42:34

that foot strengthening happens as from wearing

42:36

and walking around. Issues like these Net

42:38

for strengthening can improve or reduce the

42:41

risk of running injury. Those I absolutely

42:43

love and but my favorite study is

42:45

actually not. About us it's

42:47

it came from that company will the what

42:50

I call mighty was at the once so

42:52

a couple years ago day because he here's

42:54

the thing many people will say well if

42:56

what you're doing so much better wired to

42:58

be shoe companies doing it. And

43:01

what I can tell you is what. People.

43:03

Who are Ceos? are the sea level in

43:05

many the a number of those companies like

43:07

a thing three off the top my head

43:10

to said directly to us or what you're

43:12

doing is legit. We just can't do it

43:14

because it would be bidding that we the

43:16

line for fifty years. They can't tell to

43:18

stories, they can't tell the story of national

43:20

movement and the story as giant giant padding

43:22

and have any one understand what's going on.

43:26

But here's the kicker. Dale know And

43:28

so that Mikey Study is the proof

43:30

that they now. So the Study came

43:32

out where they were testing their best

43:34

selling running shoe against a new shoe

43:36

they had developed and the way they

43:38

publicize the Study which has never been

43:40

published by have a copy of it.

43:43

Is they said? this new shoe reduces the

43:46

risk of injury by fifty two percent. Which.

43:49

it did that then you have to look

43:51

at the actual numbers in their best selling

43:53

running shoe and twelve we study that they

43:56

designed over thirty percent of the people got

43:58

injured in less than twelve weeks In

44:01

the new shoe, yeah, only 15% got injured. So

44:04

let's call that one out of three versus one

44:06

out of seven. Imagine you walk into

44:08

a shoe store and you say, I'm looking for a good

44:10

shoe for walking, running, hiking, whatever it is you do. They

44:12

go, well, here's our best seller. FYI,

44:16

over 30% of the people wearing this are gonna get injured in the next

44:18

12 weeks. It's like, oh, no,

44:21

no, I don't like that one. Yeah,

44:23

wait, can I get, do you have a better one? Well, here's one where

44:26

only one out of seven people get injured

44:28

in 12 weeks. Don't

44:30

you have one that doesn't injure me or makes me feel

44:32

better? They go, yeah, and that's not what we do

44:34

here. So, or imagine going, you

44:36

know, someone says, I'm gonna buy you dinner every night this

44:38

week. You have a choice between two restaurants. One where you'll

44:40

get food poisoning twice, one where you only get it once.

44:43

Which one do you wanna go to? Almost

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one of on Pluto TV, stream the

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screaming. Now, Pluto TV drop-in,

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watch free I'm

45:18

Walter Masterson. And I'm Maximilian

45:20

Clark. And we're basically journalists.

45:24

No, no we're not. Well,

45:26

we do travel across America and interview

45:28

people. Yeah, using God to solve murders

45:31

and it's proven communication. Tell

45:33

me everything about that. But we also dress

45:35

up like extremists and sneak into their protests.

45:38

I care about children. That

45:40

is why I pay my court mandated

45:42

style support. Well, that's undercover

45:44

journalism. Okay, and that time we pretended

45:46

to be Trump's legal team during the

45:49

indictment. Well, close to Maritah. He

45:52

considers us all family. That's why he's

45:54

always asking us for money. Okay,

45:56

so we are not journalists.

45:58

We're TikTok and. comedians asking questions

46:01

real journalists are too smart

46:03

to ask. But we

46:05

also talk to real experts and scientists and

46:07

smart people and stuff and make fun of

46:09

them. Yeah, I guess that's why we named

46:11

our show. We are not journalists. Because

46:14

we're better. We have a podcast. A

46:17

podcast that's available on whatever podcast

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app you use to get your

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46:23

Podcast. I hope you enjoyed

46:25

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46:28

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46:31

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46:37

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