0:14

Pushkin.

0:19

Hey, Dream listeners, please stick around

0:21

after this for a bonus episode that you won't

0:23

want to miss. Previously

0:26

on the Dream.

0:28

The night before this hike

0:30

or walk, whatever she wants to call it, happened,

0:33

they were told to prioritize rest.

0:35

And I started getting bt.

0:36

I'm like what, And then this person starts to mention,

0:38

well, I have diabetes. I gotta check my blood

0:40

sugar and Sasha I look.

0:41

At each other like nobody mentioned diabetes.

0:44

Like we might actually kill people on this trip,

0:46

Like we literally thought that.

0:48

I was like, oh my god, And I know this

0:50

is a fifteen hour situation.

0:53

Guys, for fifteen hours. Get started.

0:56

Yeah, okay, I was getting a little spicy.

1:01

Glorias Swanson, star of Sunset

1:03

Boulevard and a million other movies, had

1:05

a conversation with Mike Wallace back in nineteen

1:08

fifty seven where she took a kind of roundabout

1:10

way of saying where I've been and what I think we've

1:12

all been feeling about the state of the world

1:15

and our place in it lately.

1:16

Let us take the Roaring twenties, you know, the Roaring

1:19

twenties.

1:19

That was all over the world.

1:21

It wasn't just in a little tiny spot

1:23

out there in California. Gaiety

1:26

and a sense of freedom and abandonment was

1:29

everywhere in the world, and everybody

1:31

seemed to have a feeling of

1:34

freedom that doesn't

1:36

exist today. Now there's pressures, there are higher

1:38

taxes, there are other concerns.

1:41

There is perhaps more conformity.

1:44

Yes, I think so, I mean much more. For

1:46

instance, this is now the United States

1:48

is a country of do it yourself. Well, I'm so exhausted

1:51

from doing it myself right now

1:54

that I had to go to a hospital to lie

1:56

down. Somebody said I had a nervous breakdown. They said

1:58

I had I don't know, hurt my legs, something else, something

2:00

else. But I went there because I was exhausted

2:03

doing everything myself.

2:06

Me too, Gloria. Nowadays

2:08

we're not even allowed to take grippy socks vacations

2:10

by choice. She never knew how good

2:12

she had it at any rate.

2:15

I agree with her. Something has

2:17

gone awry in the story we tell ourselves

2:19

about being American, and

2:21

it's been hard to find the right person or group

2:24

to be mad at about things as giant

2:26

as capitalism or meritocracy

2:28

or bootstrap thinking. The

2:30

hardest workers reaping the highest rewards.

2:33

It's a total sham, but it's

2:35

like a religion here, something you

2:37

must have faith in because if it

2:39

isn't true, at least you worked hard, and if

2:41

it is true, you win. I

2:44

guess I'm mad at all of us for keeping up this

2:46

facade, and I'm mad at the self

2:49

help and coaching industry for repackaging

2:51

the idea and selling it back to us

2:53

as empowerment and you know, like fulfilling

2:56

our own personal manifest destinies.

2:59

But it's boring to listen to someone fight with an entire

3:01

ideology most people adhere to right.

3:05

Lucky for me, one person came

3:07

forward during our reporting I

3:09

could point my ir at.

3:11

So I'm jesse Lee Ward.

3:13

Jesse Lee Ward from episode one, the

3:15

business coach who took a bunch of her paying

3:17

clients on a hike in Columbia

3:20

that was only supposed to be two hours but lasted

3:23

forever.

3:25

Some people know me as Bossley or

3:27

the People's mentor you know. But at

3:29

any rate, So I do a lot of things, sure,

3:31

but I am the number one network marketer in

3:33

the world. I also have an education company

3:36

where I do coach entrepreneurs how to

3:38

build and scale their businesses, and I'm

3:41

a dog mom. Most importantly, I'm gidding

3:43

out, but

3:45

I'm just a serial entrepreneur

3:47

really, and I guess that's the

3:49

easiest way to say it. And then I'll let you take the conversation

3:51

wherever you live.

3:53

After we heard the story about the Colombian

3:55

expedition, jesse Lee took her coaching clients

3:57

on. We put a request in through her office

4:00

for an interview. In the

4:02

request, we named our show, talked about our

4:04

previous seasons, and sent them links. Months

4:07

went by, and then one day, miracle

4:09

happened. They wrote us back and said

4:11

yes, she would give us an interview, with

4:13

a condition. They said we

4:15

could only have thirty minutes of her time for

4:18

free, and if we go over, she

4:20

would have to charge us, which

4:22

I don't know if you know, but I can't pay people

4:24

to be on this show. It's unethical. So

4:27

we said no, we're good with thirty even

4:29

though I'm not, and sent him a release which

4:31

explains that the interview will be used for

4:33

this show, The Dream. It took

4:35

them a minute, but the morning of the interview they

4:38

finally sent a signed copy. We

4:40

were good to go. I was going to speak

4:42

with the boss Lee, and

4:44

I was a wreck about it. See,

4:50

recently, jesse Lee announced

4:52

that she's been diagnosed with cancer,

4:55

a scary one. She talks

4:57

about it a lot on social media, and

4:59

in the hours leading up to our chat, I

5:01

had the kind of anxiety that makes you poop.

5:04

Like. I was pretty suspicious of her, didn't

5:07

love her vibe from what I'd seen and heard. But no

5:09

one wants to be mean to a cancer patient, you know. So

5:12

I was a knots just trying to psyche myself

5:14

up to be cheery while also holding

5:16

her to account. So

5:18

I did a few little cries, cooped again,

5:21

and then got on the call. So,

5:26

yeah, we're going to talk about coaching and a little

5:28

bit about MLMs and stuff today. But I just

5:30

wanted to let you know before we get started here that if

5:32

there's a question you don't want to answer, or don't have

5:34

an answer to, or don't know what I'm talking about,

5:37

we can just move right on.

5:38

Okay, I'm pretty open, so I'm

5:41

not too worried about it.

5:42

But yeah, I have twenty eight

5:44

minutes left in our conversation to see about

5:46

that. So what

5:48

does number one network marketer in the world mean

5:50

or how do you measure that?

5:52

Yeah, sure, so, first of all that I know of,

5:54

at least reported, I am the highest earner in network

5:56

marketing, which is how some people would

5:58

say is some people would say is the most important.

6:01

I actually don't think that's the most important metric to measure

6:03

something like that. I think it's more important to pay

6:05

attention to the influence that somebody has. So

6:09

all of the biggest stages and have been now for six

6:11

years straight, so I have a lot of influence

6:13

over the actual profession itself. And then

6:16

and I guess I'm just kind of really well known, so

6:18

that could also just be where that comes

6:21

from. But I'm sort of the face of the profession,

6:23

so I think that's where that comes from.

6:26

Have you always been like this, like did you want to be president

6:28

growing up or anything like that. I find that a lot of

6:30

people who make it big in

6:32

some field have just been born that way.

6:35

I never wanted to be president. Leadership

6:38

came, I think from being thrust

6:40

into leadership more than oh I was a bond

6:42

lead off. I don't think I can agree

6:45

with that so much. But here I am vice

6:47

president of my network marketing company,

6:49

almost president of the world now.

6:51

I'm kidding.

6:53

Can you tell me how you got thrust into that

6:55

other career? Like, what was the day or a

6:58

moment where it was like, oh, now you have to get on stage.

7:00

Yeah, my first timing on stage. It really was a thrust

7:02

into kind of thing. It was one of these things where the

7:05

CEO of a company said, what are you doing?

7:07

Why is your business growing so fast? I want you to speak

7:09

at this regional event. And I was like, sprink at a regional event.

7:11

I don't know how to speak at a regional event, but

7:13

luckily I had. In the

7:16

college I went to, you had to take public speaking

7:18

as a semester. Everybody had to, and most people

7:20

had panic attacks when they had to do public speaking

7:22

one on one.

7:23

And I rather liked it. I thought it was pretty

7:25

cool.

7:25

I liked the idea of writing speeches and you

7:28

know, the voice inflections and adding

7:30

the humor, and watching the audience pay attention

7:33

instead of boring them and feeding off their energy

7:35

and all of this. I think empathic people

7:37

can be really really good at public speaking.

7:39

So and then I became a corporate trainer and

7:42

I got to kind of travel the world doing

7:44

that. Not the world, what am I talking about I got

7:46

to travel Tennessee and Ohio and

7:48

Indiana doing.

7:51

Doing that, you know, just like

7:54

in small town USA basically.

7:56

And then I started getting asked from big

7:58

companies that weren't even in the network marketing space.

8:00

Hey, would you come speak for my company?

8:02

Hi?

8:02

I heard that you can scale businesses. Hey, I heard you're the

8:04

social media girl who's unbelievable. Can you

8:06

teach us? He teach my company how to grow social

8:09

media? Hey? And I just kept saying yes, and

8:11

people would pay and pay and pay and pay and pay.

8:13

And I started realizing, whoa, I'm

8:15

really good at this and people get a lot of results

8:17

doing this, and people ask me constantly.

8:20

Will you coach me? Will you coach me? Will you coach me?

8:22

And I said to you, am I a coach?

8:24

Good lord? But I love

8:26

it. It's really turned into a huge passion project. I'm

8:28

kind of obsessed with it.

8:29

Are you expensive?

8:31

I don't think so. I actually know I'm underpriced.

8:34

I'm pretty underpriced. I'm really underpriced

8:36

according to my coach.

8:38

So I

8:41

should raise my prices. That's a good time.

8:43

I'm the person always telling people to raise their

8:45

praises. When I found out what my coach was charging

8:47

me. I was like, that's not enough, Like yeah,

8:49

eighty five dollars an hour or something. I was like,

8:51

that's ridiculous. What do you what? Wow?

8:54

And I understand. I'm I'm hurting myself

8:56

here by telling you you're not charging enough.

8:58

But no, I actually appreciate

9:00

you even saying that, Like, I love this conversation.

9:02

This is an important conversation for people to hear. So

9:05

it's like, I really truly believe that

9:07

you get what you pay for anything.

9:10

So and it's stupid. It's almost stupid

9:12

what I'm about to say. I know that I pay my coach thirty thousand

9:14

dollars an hour exactly.

9:17

Okay, so I know, but

9:19

I'm talking about the results I get from having

9:22

this guy coach me. Okay, it's ridiculous.

9:24

It's like I'm able to tap into the network.

9:26

I'm able to tap into his brain. I'm able to tap into his

9:28

expertise. He's built things that I've wanted to build,

9:31

and he and he helps and he guides me. It's

9:33

a time machine. You know, you don't know how much time you

9:35

have on this earth. Nobody does, so why you did daddling

9:37

around wasting your time time trying to figure everything

9:40

out when you're staring at somebody who's done exactly

9:42

what you want to do, hire

9:44

them.

9:45

All right, So we're chatting, and I assume that jesse

9:47

Lee knew what show she was on, since

9:50

we'd sent her a bunch of information about it. But

9:52

it became clear as soon as I asked the next

9:54

question she had no idea

9:56

who she was talking to. I.

9:59

You know, I'm just to be completely

10:01

transparent. I have a book coming out in March

10:04

on Atria, and I have this show

10:07

where I talk a lot about ONTA

10:09

MLM stuff, mostly

10:12

just the why does this industry exist?

10:14

Where like no one really makes any money,

10:17

but people just keep signing up anyway, Like

10:19

it seems like the dominant narrative should be like

10:21

the true narrative. Would you just give me your

10:23

take on the industry, because you said you're a real proponent

10:26

of it.

10:26

Sure, I love your honesty and

10:28

saying that off the bat. Yeah.

10:31

So I think it's like anything, you know.

10:33

I think some people are going to suck at everything they try

10:35

to do except for what they're made to do, and then some people

10:37

are going to be great at it. I also think not everybody

10:39

has work ethic, but they want to compare things like they

10:42

do. I don't think everybody has talent. I don't think

10:44

everybody has skill sets. I don't think everybody's willing

10:46

to learn. And that's not just network marketing. So

10:48

it's like I look at waiting tables. Why

10:50

was I the waitress that could always make way more money than everybody

10:52

else. Well, I was personal, I was likable. I got

10:54

to know people. I was smiling, I was charismatic.

10:57

I got to know the menu better. I would upsell, I would cross

10:59

sell, I would take extra shifts. I would do what people weren't

11:01

willing to do.

11:02

Well, I look at how I'm going to be in

11:04

network marketing. I joined.

11:05

I said, oh, one percent of people can make a million dollars

11:08

a year. I'm going to be the person six million dollars a year. I

11:10

put in more hours, I went to more events, I

11:12

took more trainings. I spent a lot more time.

11:14

I made a lot more sacrifices. I got in all the right

11:16

rooms, I did all the right things. I treated it like a business.

11:18

And so I look at a lot of people who join network marketing,

11:21

and the big problem with network marketing is it's an even

11:23

playing field. Nobody asks any questions.

11:26

They just say, oh, hey, you have

11:29

seven hundred dollars, you're qualified.

11:35

So can I ask about your style

11:37

of coaching? I've watched a lot of your videos

11:39

and I feel like your style is I

11:41

don't want to say agro, but you're

11:44

very boisterous, You're very You're kind

11:46

of tough. Was that a choice

11:48

or is that just like how you naturally are?

11:52

Can I ask you a question?

11:54

Yeah?

11:55

Do you pay for my coaching?

12:00

Do I pay for your coaching?

12:02

Like?

12:02

Are you in the accelerator program?

12:04

No?

12:04

My coaching's not boisterous? Oh

12:08

it isn't Yeah, no,

12:10

not so funny.

12:11

Do you tell people that when they sign up, like you're

12:13

not going to get the same thing that you see on

12:16

online?

12:17

No, that wouldn't be accurate either. I think

12:19

that it's important to realize that what you see on social media

12:21

tends to be a snippet of somebody's personality

12:24

or like a little glimpse into their

12:26

life. But inside of my coaching, it is

12:28

very tactical. It is super super

12:31

kind, loving, open, empathetic listening.

12:34

It is responsive into what people

12:36

need, especially in my Platinum coaching. It's

12:38

super conversational. But I think I'm really

12:40

different than people assume I am from the internet

12:42

anyhow, So when you get to know me, I.

12:45

Think so, I mean probably like if I like

12:47

I go through the videos and look, it's like you

12:50

talk a mile in a minute, and you're very excited

12:52

and you feel and it feels like really intense,

12:55

even like short videos.

12:56

So that's what that's I think why I was making that assumption.

12:59

It's not like a tender kind

13:01

of caretaky vibe

13:04

that some coaches have, you.

13:05

Know, like, oh, well, I'm not like A'm

13:08

not a spirituality coach. I mean, I'm not a

13:10

I don't claim to be like a feminine energy

13:12

coach. I don't

13:14

claim to be you know, someone who's

13:16

gonna just talk

13:18

about how beautiful you are and wonderful

13:20

you are and want to cuddle you. I'm the coach

13:23

that you would hire if you're looking for actual results.

13:26

So yeah, that I will say is true. But maybe

13:28

that's why I attract males and females. I don't

13:30

just attract women like I don't. I

13:32

see a lot of these spirituality coaches right now, which

13:34

is nothing wrong with them, of course, because that's

13:36

their niche, right, and they say, you know, join me, and I'm

13:38

going to teach you how to become more spiritual

13:40

and more in alignment with your life. And

13:43

that's just not what you're if you if you hire

13:46

me as your coach and the accelerator, you're going to

13:48

learn business skills. I'm going to show you how to make

13:50

money, right, I'm going to show you how to I'm

13:53

going to show you how to how to, you

13:55

know, take your business to the next level. We're not going to

13:57

sit around in kumbaya. If that's what you're looking

13:59

for.

14:00

I don't know. I don't even know who to refer you to.

14:03

Guys. I was trying, but the energy

14:05

had shifted, so I

14:08

was like, fuck it. Yeah.

14:11

A couple of questions because we got like five six minutes

14:13

left.

14:14

One.

14:15

I did hear all about the Columbia trip?

14:17

Any more notes on that? I saw some of your response

14:20

videos, but I'm not like in

14:22

Facebook or anything, so I don't really know much

14:26

about that other than there was like a lot of chatter

14:28

on TikTok about it

14:30

being kind of brutal.

14:33

Sure, yeah, well what have you what have you heard?

14:36

I want to know about the trip because it sounds like it

14:37

was. It sounds like people on TikTok think they were

14:40

on the trip.

14:41

Yeah, that it was a lot like that. There was

14:43

just a brutal hike and it was a lot

14:46

more intense and people weren't prepared

14:48

for it. Basically, I talked

14:51

to Aaron. Well, I've noticed that I talked to Aaron Bees

14:53

a bit about it, but there's

14:56

been plenty of people chit chats.

14:58

On the trip. I think I was on the trip, but I'm

15:00

not. I don't. I don't remember her being on the trip.

15:01

She wasn't.

15:02

No interesting,

15:05

So TikTok journalism and YouTube journalism

15:07

are very interesting to me because it seems

15:10

to me like there tends to be little to

15:12

no research done whatsoever, and

15:15

a lot of crazy, silicious stories come

15:17

out because they get views, right, and views make you money.

15:19

I also find it interesting that these people have to use my name

15:21

in order to get any views. But I guess that's I

15:24

guess that's kind of normal, right. So first

15:26

thing I would do if I were to call Columbia an aggressive

15:29

hike is I'd probably checked the topography of

15:31

Carda Hana Carda Hanah has no hills,

15:34

has no mountains. How

15:36

could it be a brutal hike.

15:38

I don't know. I'm not sure where and exactly

15:40

it was, but I know that's the town you

15:42

were staying in, but I don't know exactly

15:44

where it was.

15:46

The entire topography of the entire region of Carda

15:48

Hanah has no hills, no mountains.

15:50

So immediately Andrew. Second thing is

15:52

nobody asked if anybody had asked

15:56

anything about maybe waivers, or asked

15:58

about health anything, or asked about going

16:00

on the trip or what kind of trip it was, because everybody who

16:02

talked about it wasn't on the trip.

16:05

But we heard those silicious

16:07

details from jess See herself.

16:09

Remember, we planned to make them

16:12

walk five kilometers in direct

16:14

sunlight on the side of a Columbian rope. And

16:16

so the first day we were chilling

16:19

and our flipping twelve bedroom villa

16:21

two, I tricked them even more to be totally

16:24

honest, I rented a boat for the day We're gonna

16:26

go on to hike tomorrow, you know, prepare for like two hours.

16:28

And look, I knew it wasn't two hours,

16:31

okay, And we said, if

16:33

anybody asks throughout the entire

16:35

day, how much longer that

16:38

you said, you have to say we're almost there. So

16:41

even if they asked twenty minutes in, how much

16:43

longer we're.

16:44

Almost there, We're almost there.

16:45

We planned it to be like this because the whole thing

16:48

was I wanted to break people. So I

16:50

don't really feel any need to defend myself about something

16:52

that was an unbelievable leadership

16:54

experience of people who all sixteen people

16:57

had an amazing time, made content about how

16:59

incredible it was, made content about how much it shifted

17:01

them as leaders. The one person that's a diabetic

17:04

is has had stable sugars ever

17:06

since then, has completely transformed her

17:08

entire life and credits

17:10

a lot of it to that trip. So if

17:12

I'm supposed to apologize for it, no,

17:14

no, no, I don't.

17:16

Think I was asking for that. I was just asking

17:18

what your perspective, or

17:20

you know, just what your experience was.

17:22

My perspective is that it sounds like people

17:24

with very bad journalism have gotten in your ear,

17:26

and it's kind of unfortunate.

17:33

I don't know if you caught it, but Jesse Lee essentially

17:36

said that this hike cured someone of their diabetes.

17:39

That's the kind of loaded language. Gurus

17:41

often use and you have to be on the lookout for it.

17:43

It's sneaky. And then, just

17:45

a few minutes before the end of our time together,

17:48

my phone started blowing up with text

17:50

messages from people I'd talked to this season

17:52

telling me that Jesse Lee Ward was

17:54

live broadcasting our entire conversation

17:57

on social media. I

17:59

had no idea. Not only

18:01

did she not tell me she'd be doing that, she

18:04

didn't do me the courtesy I'd extended to her

18:06

and try to obtain my permission. I

18:09

didn't know what to do, but chose not to spend the last

18:11

few minutes in a fruitless argument, so

18:13

I turned back to our topic. When

18:15

I was thinking about getting a coach, I wanted someone to

18:18

like call me every single morning and tell me what to

18:20

do with my day, Like at

18:22

nine o'clock, you're going to do this, at ten o'clock, you're going to

18:24

do this at eleven o'clock, Like how

18:27

specific is it, and how much handholding

18:29

is there? And do you have can you give us like

18:31

a little peak into what like

18:33

the skills that you're teaching what

18:35

they are.

18:36

So you're not You're not gonna get mindset coaching unless you're

18:38

in silver. Silver is specifically for mindset.

18:41

In the gold, this is skill based. So my gold

18:43

training, which is my middle my middle level training. This

18:45

is exact tactics. This is not frou

18:48

through you know,

18:51

take control of her life or no,

18:53

h this is your A

18:55

through Z. This is what she needs

18:57

to do to do this. And then my platinum

19:00

coaching. These are high level people. I don't

19:02

believe high little people need somebody to call them.

19:04

Like the thought of me hiring a coach

19:06

to call me every day and tell me how to do my day

19:08

like girl, No, I don't. I don't need that.

19:11

Like I'm highly motivated,

19:13

I'm highly inspired. I'm highly excited about

19:15

my life. I've never needed somebody to say,

19:17

Hi, Okay, now let's have a miracule

19:19

morning, and let's move our body, and let's drink

19:21

some water, and let's brush our teeth

19:24

and let's now go to the kitchen and make our juice.

19:26

No, must be nice to looking

19:29

for a babysitter.

19:30

I am.

19:31

I am. I'm looking for like a babysitter or a wife.

19:34

I just I do want someone to take charge

19:36

of all that stuff.

19:38

You're honest, Yeah, No, I

19:40

feels successful.

19:41

I do feel successful and happy in my career

19:43

at the same time. But I would prefer to

19:45

be taken, you know, for that stuff to not be on

19:48

my plate.

19:49

Well, you don't need a

19:51

coach, is true?

19:53

That's true? Okay, all right, I'll

19:55

put a call out.

19:56

I mean, you're never going to have a coach who's gonna

19:58

like that's yeah, or maybe a

20:00

therapist.

20:01

I have one of those. Yeah.

20:04

No.

20:04

I like the practical skills though that you're talking about

20:07

teaching. All right. Is there anything else that

20:09

I'm missing or that you would you want to

20:11

talk about before we before we end

20:13

the call here?

20:15

I don't think so. Yeah, No, I

20:17

don't know.

20:18

This isn't really fun. It's fun to

20:20

speak to you in person. It feels like

20:24

kind of bizarre because I only know you from the internet.

20:26

Yeah, so a lot of people you

20:28

know me through the internet. That's okay though.

20:30

That's where you can start the relationship and then take

20:32

it where you want to take it.

20:35

One of the difficulties in interviewing a person

20:37

who does public speaking for a living is

20:39

that they're pretty rehearsed. They have

20:41

all their talking points down, so

20:43

it was a bit difficult to get her to loosen up. Say

20:46

something off the cuff. But after

20:48

we hung up, her live broadcast

20:50

kept going and she and her

20:53

assistant relaxed a bit.

20:55

Chris had a bad feeling about these people.

20:59

I was like, Oh, they're antsy and the levers

21:04

no to self, do not subscribe to this podcast?

21:06

Lia says, is that for real?

21:08

Was she for real?

21:10

Oh gosh, but listen,

21:12

they try to rattle you. This is kind of like

21:14

their thing, and it's

21:17

impossible when you stand in your truth, right.

21:20

So, yeah,

21:22

she's looking for a babysitter or something. I'm not totally

21:24

sure what she's looking for, but nothing

21:27

I do is scammy. And to

21:30

call me an aggressive coach

21:32

when she's never paid me a dime, And

21:35

I like, how did you notice how her

21:38

internet cut out?

21:39

Like?

21:39

God was like, no, bitch, did

21:42

you notice that? Did y'all notice that? I

21:46

think she was prepared, But she really thought that I was

21:48

gonna stumble. I

21:51

don't stumble, all

21:54

right? That got me

21:56

all rattle dazzled for the day.

21:58

I feel like I'm excited now. Okay,

22:01

so we're gonna have an excited day and

22:03

I'll be back later with the podcast that they're not

22:05

going to try to attack me. On Okay, all

22:08

right, and I hope she's not send me her book because

22:11

you shouldn't burn books.

22:13

Have a good one. She

22:16

talked about me with her followers on lives

22:18

for the next couple of days while she was

22:20

cooking or juicing or whatever.

22:24

You watched it, if you the lady did with me, it was Clarie's you're

22:26

so awesome like. Once

22:28

I realized what she was doing, I realized that what she

22:30

wanted was for me to get mad so I could fulfill

22:32

some kind of narrative of hers that I'm some like.

22:35

She said, Boisterous, tough, aggressive.

22:38

Are the words three of the words she used to.

22:39

Describe me, person,

22:42

and coach, And if you've ever been coached

22:44

by me, like I'm guessing

22:46

some of you probably have, those

22:49

are not words that I would use to

22:51

describe me. And then she tried to

22:53

say, oh, so you're false advertising,

22:55

and I'm like, you need

22:58

to get lost.

22:59

I believe what she was referring to with the false advertising

23:01

thing was the moment I asked her if she

23:04

tells her paying clients essentially that she's

23:06

like a totally different person behind closed doors,

23:08

so.

23:09

If you want to be stupid, what she clearly does

23:11

just keep being stupid and l Apparently

23:15

I think she lied, but she said she told

23:17

Chrissa that she's an Emmy Award winning

23:19

journalist.

23:21

That's what it.

23:21

Says on Wikipedia

23:24

and her

23:26

Wikipedia and her Twitter, which we will not provide

23:28

you with because we are not going to promote such a Clearly.

23:32

You just know an ept human. But

23:35

we couldn't find the Emmy.

23:36

So I guess I'm gonna call myself an Oscar

23:38

winning Emmy winning, Grammy

23:41

winning artist. I'm a

23:43

Grammy Women winning artist because

23:46

I say so, Okay, it

23:48

was awful. Uh,

23:51

your twelve year old could have done better.

23:53

I don't disagree with you.

23:56

I like how much she's stumbled.

23:57

I like when you make them, make them

24:00

squim a little bit, you make them

24:02

sclim. All right,

24:05

So after this, I'm gonna do this Centrist, and I'll

24:07

answer some more questions for y'all if

24:10

you have them, or we can talk about that crazy lady.

24:13

I don't even know if she knew

24:16

that I was streaming live like I don't

24:18

think she does her research, and

24:21

so I don't think she knew that every time

24:23

I.

24:24

Do an interview. Then later on

24:26

that day, she called me a Dingleberry. So

24:28

number one, fuck her. At least I had

24:30

the balls to say everything to her face and

24:32

jesse Lee and jesse Lee's assistant. Wikipedia,

24:35

where you say you looked me up contains footnotes

24:38

down. It's got to scroll a little ways, but it's kind of down

24:40

at the bottom. Well, you can see them because they're embedded in the article.

24:43

If you want to find all my accolades, that's

24:45

where they would be. But number two this

24:48

got me thinking about the success at all costs

24:50

mentality we've been looking into this season.

24:53

Napoleon, Hill, Ray, Higden, jesse

24:55

Lee Ward, they all had this

24:58

eat or be eaten attitude, and

25:00

they all seem to have really bought into the idea

25:02

that in order for them to win, someone else must

25:04

lose, and that it's funny if

25:06

someone else loses, and it's fun to get

25:08

over on someone you think is a loser and make fun

25:10

of them for being a loser. But

25:14

I'll admit it's not the best feeling to listen to someone

25:16

call you names for days on end. I'll

25:18

be okay, And I really hope jesse

25:21

Lee is fine too, and that all the woo woo

25:23

stuff you read about negative attitudes

25:25

feeding cancer cells isn't true.

25:30

After that whole thing, I just wanted someone to say

25:32

I was doing okay. So I asked

25:34

my coach. After

25:43

our final workout, my coach, Jesse,

25:45

and I sat down to talk about how I did over

25:47

these past six months. Just

25:49

tell me how I'm doing

25:53

and catch my bread first, because we don't need me in

25:55

the background.

25:56

Like you're

25:58

doing great, No, honestly I

26:01

have. I'm very proud of you, Like

26:03

the way that you just lego of the fast food.

26:08

You priorities yourself. You

26:10

said, this is it, I'm going to go with it. You are a little

26:13

hesitant about doing the whole tumor

26:16

surgery, but when you

26:18

knew that even changing your diet

26:21

didn't make you feel good,

26:24

I think that you were like, Okay, you know what, I need

26:26

to do everything that she's telling me to

26:28

do because she knows

26:30

best and she sees something that I'm not saying.

26:33

Before you start feeling good, there was a lot of turbulence,

26:35

which is normal, you know, resistance.

26:38

I don't want this, and it's all normal.

26:40

But you were.

26:41

You went through all the motions and look at where you are now.

26:44

You look alive, not

26:49

feeling a lot better. I'm feeling a lot better. Look

26:51

alive.

26:52

You look, you still

26:54

look like you're like working on it. And

26:56

I'm sure you're hearing a lot of different great

26:59

things. But

27:02

but you know, but

27:04

I feel like you're moving

27:06

in the right direction and you're

27:08

so who.

27:13

Different.

27:14

Instead of not believing, you're

27:17

open and

27:19

that is huge. I think that that

27:22

is what is making

27:24

all of this work. The fact that you're open,

27:27

you know what, lets me do it, just

27:30

so I can say I did it and no it doesn't

27:32

work, or yes it doesn't work, but not

27:35

doing it because like a yeah, that sounds like.

27:38

That was you before.

27:39

Now you're just let me try,

27:41

and trying has gotten

27:43

you this far. So

27:47

it's all the energy that you put

27:49

into it. So if you're hopeful

27:52

and you're doing it with love and

27:55

one great foot in front of the other,

27:57

step by step, this is.

27:58

Where you get well. I appreciate it.

28:00

Yeah, I know.

28:01

I'm very proud of you, Like honestly, like without

28:03

saying your name to a lot of clients, you know, I always

28:05

like use you as an example.

28:06

I'm like this woman stopped, she just stopped.

28:09

She just stopped eating fast food because

28:12

she cared so much about herself. But

28:14

there's one thing that always makes you strong,

28:18

and for you, it was your daughter. The

28:21

love that you have for your daughter and

28:24

the as much as she needs you in her

28:26

life gave you the

28:28

strength that fear became

28:31

fuel. Yeah, you're

28:34

fueled with love.

28:36

So when we first started, I have to admit

28:38

there was like a moment where I was like scared,

28:42

this is maybe not gonna make any sense. But I

28:45

got like a little freaked

28:47

out, Like I was like,

28:49

maybe this was like culty, I'm

28:53

not kidding. Yeah,

28:55

I mean I was afraid of like losing

28:58

control, Like I don't like giving

29:01

over control.

29:04

It was the opposite.

29:05

It was completely the opposite. I gave you all control.

29:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I

29:10

guess I sound a little culty because I

29:12

always like go back like metaphysical

29:15

stuff, and you.

29:16

Know, and that seems a little culty.

29:18

You know, when someone connects to like their inner

29:20

light, it's like, ah, fuck, this woman

29:23

is like she's gonna come out with mushrooms and she's

29:25

gonna come out with this shit. And like, at

29:27

least with my practice, I know that for

29:29

me, love means everything

29:33

everything that for me, God is love.

29:35

This universe is love. Light is love.

29:37

Everything it comes from love. So if I'm

29:39

able to just give it to you,

29:41

and sometimes that can be culty like because

29:45

you're like, why the fuck is this woman giving

29:47

me so much love?

29:49

Well, I love you now, I love you now.

29:52

It's like She's like, yeah, it's okay. Like

29:54

that, we've gotten to know each other and I feel like we're friends

29:56

now.

29:56

We are we are in months later.

29:58

Yeah, but and I understand that. I come across

30:01

like, you know, like, okay, just self

30:03

love yourself, and you know, blah

30:05

blah blah.

30:06

But I'm really hard ass.

30:08

I'm just like we I help

30:10

you find your way. You're

30:13

finally feeling this self beautiful

30:15

love that you are. And Jane,

30:18

you're pretty badass.

30:20

You really are. At the beginning of this I

30:22

said I would hate if someone called me badass.

30:25

I said it on tape. And you're so fucking.

30:29

You are.

30:30

Thank and enjoy it, you

30:32

know what I mean. I I gotta go finish a book now

30:38

like me. At the beginning of this experiment, Jesse

30:41

Lee derided people like my coach who quote

30:43

sit around and kumbaya. But over

30:45

the past six months, I've come to realize

30:48

I super prefer that to sitting around and

30:50

counting dollars, not that I know from

30:52

experience. So what my coach

30:54

is a little hooksh pokish. At

30:57

least she's kind and thoughtful. There's

30:59

something at the heart of the coaching world, at the heart

31:01

of manifesting and positive thinking and

31:03

all that, that my coach would never

31:05

ascribe to. And that's the idea

31:08

that if you are smart and have the right mindset,

31:10

you will live in a mansion, and that you should

31:12

want to live in a mansion if you're smart

31:14

and have the right mindset, that

31:17

having an attitude of gratitude will bring abundance,

31:20

and that the proof that you have the wrong attitude

31:22

and that you're an idiot is that you belong

31:24

to the ninety nine percent. Not

31:27

once did my coach suggest thinking and growing

31:29

rich or leveling up. We

31:32

made tiny changes to my life, I mean,

31:34

like the size of a taco that really

31:36

improved my outlook and my health without

31:38

cheering each other on for climbing over

31:41

the rest of the caterpillars to reach some unknown

31:43

reward.

31:43

At the top of the pile.

31:46

That's a reference to the nineteen seventy three illustrated

31:49

book Hope for the flowers that puts

31:51

everything I'm thinking very plainly and beautifully.

31:54

The real reward is becoming a butterfly

31:57

without being a.

31:57

Dick about it.

32:05

The Dream is written, hosted, and executive

32:07

produced by me Marie.

32:10

Our producer is Mike Richter, with help from Nancy

32:12

Golumbiski and Joy Sandford. Our

32:15

editor is Peter Clowney. The Dream

32:17

is a co production of Little Everywhere in Pushkin

32:19

Industries from Pushkin Industry, Special

32:21

thanks to Fara de Grange, Jake Flanagan,

32:24

Lee Tom Allod, Greta Cone, Jacob

32:26

Smith, Eric Sandler, Key Rapose, Isabella

32:29

Narvaz and Jordan McMillan