0:01

The Dream Team Tapes season two.

0:04

Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team

0:06

is a production of Diversion Podcasts

0:09

in association with I Heart Radio

0:21

Diversion Podcasts. The

0:25

players selected for the honor of representing

0:28

the United States in the two thousand and eight

0:30

Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe

0:34

Bryant. We

0:36

look forward to this for a while, you know, to be in this

0:38

position now here we don't represent our country

0:40

venus especially special

0:44

Lebron James. We

0:47

look for an opportunity of the the weekend on Athlama being

0:49

the best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team

0:51

is as it is right, We're

0:53

the best team in the world. We're the best team in

0:55

the world. We put fast football America

0:57

basketball wheels beat, which is

0:59

that time? Welcome

1:20

to episode five of Kobe Lebron

1:22

and the Redeemed Team. I'm J Dande

1:24

and we're calling this episode Coach K's

1:26

ways to look at the strategies and

1:28

the tactics that Mike Shook used not

1:31

so much in the games, not the XS and oose,

1:34

but it's about his approach to leading this team and

1:36

getting the most from this group. It's about

1:38

identity and community, but

1:41

First, I have a quick quiz from my co

1:43

host Jack McCallum. Jack,

1:45

can you spell Sewsky without

1:48

hitting your keyboard and googling or any

1:50

other cheating like that, You just spell for

1:53

me k R g y z e w s

1:55

k I no prom at all? Right, And that might

1:57

be the easiest difficult name

1:59

for me A spell as well, And it's

2:01

it speaks to just how prevalent he's

2:03

been for the last four decades that if

2:06

you've covered basketball professional

2:08

or college, you've written that name

2:10

so many times that it

2:13

comes easily. It shouldn't make sense.

2:15

The fact that we all know how to correctly

2:17

pronounce Schefski, which

2:20

looks nothing like the way you say it,

2:22

really speaks to his imprint

2:24

in his stamp on the world of basketball.

2:27

And Jack, now that you've passed through spelling tests,

2:30

I want to know if you can give us a brief

2:32

rundown of the role of the coach in USA

2:34

basketball, because you were there from

2:36

the first time NBA players came into international

2:39

basketball, and how

2:41

the role of the coach has changed from Chuck

2:43

Daily leading the dream team to

2:46

when Suzewski was called upon to coach this two

2:48

thousand eighteen that's a good question. Mike's

2:50

name, by the way, always reminded me of the

2:52

character in the Superman comics. Mr

2:54

mix Plexis, did you ever did

2:57

you ever read that if you had to get

2:59

him to spell his name backwards to go back

3:01

into the third dimension or wherever

3:03

the hell he was from. But anyway, the coaching

3:06

role j and I think it's gonna speak

3:08

to what happened in two thousand five when they

3:10

finally decided we gotta get a

3:12

program, you know, we gotta get

3:15

like a thing with one coach and

3:18

and a multi year commitment from players,

3:20

because before that it was very Catches, catch

3:22

Ken after Chuck Daily, and

3:25

they gave the job, as they should have, to Lenny

3:27

Wilkins, who was a loyal assistant

3:29

on the ninety two team. Lenny

3:31

had a bunch of guys. As Charles Barkley

3:34

put it, the knucklehead factor was

3:36

very high on that team. I'm sure

3:38

Lenny was just glad to get the hell out of Atlanta

3:40

with a gold medal two thousand

3:42

The coach a little bit forgotten we talked about

3:44

these Olympics was Rudy tom Janovic.

3:47

And I'm gonna tell you why he coached this team. J

3:49

And it's a quick quiz for you. He

3:52

coached the world

3:54

championship team. I'm gonna give

3:56

you a hundred dollars for every

3:59

starter you can name on

4:01

that team. We don't want to take too much time, but go

4:03

ahead, Carter. This

4:05

is the World championship

4:07

team. Here you go, Kevin

4:10

Garnett, not even close. Here

4:12

it is Jimmy Oliver,

4:16

Jason Sasser, Michael

4:19

not Hershey Hawkins, Michael

4:22

Hawkins, David not Leon

4:24

Wood, and Gerard

4:27

not Bernard not, Albert not bb

4:30

King. That was

4:32

a team that Rudy coach

4:34

to a bronze medal in the World

4:37

Championships. They were having labor problems

4:40

at the time, you know, it was before the lockout.

4:42

They couldn't get anybody to play,

4:44

and that's the team they put on the court for the bronze

4:47

medal, and Rudy coached that team. Believe

4:49

it or not, it's looked upon as like a really great

4:51

moment in USA basketball that they

4:53

managed to win the bronze. So

4:56

Rudy got the job in two thousand

4:58

and then the two thousand two team we talked

5:00

about that a little bit. Coach by George Carl

5:03

had a sorry sixth place finish two

5:05

thousand three was an anomaly. They

5:08

put this great team together. That was

5:11

was the Olympic qualifying team,

5:13

who starters were Tracy McGrady,

5:16

Jason Kidd, Duncan was on

5:18

that team. Iverson was on that team, Jermaine

5:21

O'Neill, Ray Allen, and Vince Carter off

5:23

the bench, and Larry Brown coached

5:25

that team. And that was largely

5:27

the reason Jay that he coached the two thousand

5:29

four Olympic team. And

5:32

I will have to admit that covering

5:34

those games in Puerto Rico in two thousand three,

5:38

myself and a couple others had this idea, Hey, let's

5:40

get a program, let's have one coach,

5:43

let's make it kind of organized. And the guy, I

5:45

said, Larry Brown, would be perfect.

5:49

And then and then he had all this criticism

5:52

for the way they coached in two thousand four

5:54

when they got the bronze and Athens. And

5:56

that led us to what we talked about

5:59

last week, the higher of Jerry Colangelo

6:01

and his move to talk to hire the

6:03

guy we're going to talk about today,

6:05

and what struck me when we were interviewing

6:09

Seki and also Jim Beheim,

6:11

who was routine deem redeem team assistant

6:13

coach. We're gonna hear a lot from him in this episode.

6:16

But when you look at those guys, just

6:18

seeing them on our screens, is that these guys

6:20

are institutions, right has

6:22

been a dupe. Be has been at Syracuse

6:24

since I started watching basketball in the early nineteen

6:27

eighties. I don't know if you have memories of

6:29

those programs before those guys were

6:31

at the Helm. I'm sure you do, But to me, they're

6:34

inseparable Duke basketball and

6:37

Mike Schowski, Syracuse basketball and Jim Beheim.

6:40

And there's something reassuring about

6:42

that. I'll tell you what, Jay, here's how

6:44

scary it is. I remember Jim as

6:46

a player at Syracuse.

6:49

I mean he was a very good player, and Dave

6:51

Byng was there then, and

6:54

I think Jim graduated obviously

6:56

I should have looked us up, I think in nineteen sixty

6:58

six. So we're now in the year twenty twenty

7:00

one. There was about a

7:02

half a year when

7:04

Jim was not at Syracuse

7:07

University. Went there as a player,

7:09

got his master's degree there. I can

7:11

imagine he did a hell of a lot of studying to get that

7:14

became the freshman coach, the j V coach

7:16

got the varsity job, has

7:19

never been absent from

7:21

the bench since then. And like you said,

7:23

you know, look, there's been some criticism of Jim

7:26

recently, and there's some things that I wish he

7:28

wouldn't say. But if you're

7:30

talking about a guy that has shown loyalty

7:32

to an institution, the

7:34

two guys you would bring up would

7:37

be Jim Beheim number one, and obviously

7:39

Mike Showsky number two. And like I said,

7:41

there's something reassuring about that type of

7:43

loyalty longevity, especially now

7:45

when it seems like nothing was the same like it

7:47

was at the start of last year or two years ago or

7:49

five years ago. And these two guys

7:51

have been in the same places for forty plus years.

7:54

And what was interesting, though, is that Sky

7:57

didn't lean into that when he coached USA

7:59

basket Ball, when he stepped away from the

8:01

hallowed halls of Duke. And at

8:03

that time, as he was coaching his two thousand and eight team,

8:06

he'd already made ten trips to the Final four,

8:08

he'd won three n C Double A championships,

8:10

so he knew that gave him a little bit of credibility

8:12

with the NBA players, but maybe not

8:14

necessarily cash with

8:17

them. And again, since this

8:19

is about identity and community, he

8:21

decided that, if anything, he was going to be more

8:23

like the guy from the Polish neighborhood on the northwest

8:26

side of Chicago and the guy who played basketball

8:28

under Bob Knight in the Army Academy at

8:30

West Point. And it reminded

8:33

me of a story that Dan Bickley

8:35

did for the Chicago Suntimes in December.

8:38

I was just starting there, just starting

8:40

off my career. Bickley was working there.

8:43

Bickley, of course was the author as

8:45

well of Return of the Gold, which is the book

8:47

about the two thousand eight Olympic team

8:49

that really proved useful in our

8:51

research for this podcast. But the

8:53

time he wrote an article about how

8:56

She's SFETI was this guy from Quartz Street,

8:58

the Polish neighborhood on the north weside of Chicago.

9:01

His buddies had nicknames like Twam's

9:03

and Mo and Porky. He gatting

9:05

fights playing basketball against teams from outside

9:07

the neighborhood. And in

9:09

the first meeting that Mike Sasefski had

9:12

with this group that would be the two thousand

9:14

eight Olympic team. That's

9:16

the neighborhood that Ski went back to. And he

9:18

starts talking the way that he's used

9:20

to talking, but it's not the way that they

9:22

were used to hearing him. I know, I probably

9:24

have to follow them out, but they

9:27

don't expect me to say, motherfucker all

9:30

right, and you know

9:32

when you're talking, just come on your motherfucking

9:34

like, we gotta get this gold medal.

9:37

And all of a sudden, I wasn't this uh

9:40

guy from Duke in West Point,

9:42

you know, it's more of the guy from

9:45

the inner city of Chicago. And

9:48

one of the people that uh it definitely

9:50

made an impression on was

9:52

Jason Kidd, the veteran leader

9:54

of the redeem team. First meeting, we

9:56

got to hear coach k Couss

9:59

right and I could believe it. I was like,

10:01

oh, like, this is the same guy that's on

10:03

TV, and like, I

10:05

think he said the whole the tone, the

10:07

whole mood kind of like relaxed

10:10

and everybody was, you know, not on edge

10:12

now. And Coach again, he

10:15

hit it out of the park when he first cussed,

10:18

and I couldn't believe it. I was like, just got

10:20

cusses and they go He's he's got

10:22

a filthy mouth, and I'm like, oh, this is gonna be

10:24

fun. So another unexpected move was

10:26

that Shefsky contradicted the Godfather

10:29

Jerry Colangelo, and he didn't quite

10:31

take sides against the family, but still

10:33

Collegelo told the team one thing, and then Sky

10:36

immediately told them the opposite. He talked

10:38

to him, he said, and leave your egos at the door.

10:41

And I got up and I said, you know, the

10:43

only time I'm gonna probably disagree

10:46

with Jerry, but don't

10:48

leave your he goes at the door. Lebron,

10:50

you be Lebron Kobe. You know. All

10:53

I know is the Gasols are gonna be the Gasols.

10:55

Geno believe will leave be even better if

10:58

you guys, aren't you We're not gonna win. We

11:00

are not gonna win. And for most of them,

11:02

it was the first real test of Coach K

11:05

and something I found really interesting.

11:07

But Jay, there was something Beheim told

11:09

us that the fact that Coach K

11:12

wasn't an NBA coach

11:14

and didn't have history with most of these

11:17

guys was a big plus because

11:19

that was the polar opposite when they picked the

11:21

first coach who was going to lead

11:23

NBA stars into the Olympics. The idea

11:26

was, oh, it can't be a college

11:28

coach, you know, it's got to be an

11:30

NBA coach. And here's what Beheim had to say.

11:32

But having a college coach, you

11:35

have no friction. I don't care what pro

11:37

coach takes it. He said

11:39

something bad about somebody

11:42

or somebody or something during

11:44

the course of his career that somebody

11:47

won two or three NBA players, they're gonna say,

11:49

I don't like that guy. So

11:52

we had none of that. You know, we

11:54

had no issue.

11:58

And I think that in in only

12:00

that, But I remember Lebron coming

12:02

to me and when I said something about Zecia's

12:04

coach, don'tor you tell me something. I'm

12:06

gonna listen to you. You've been doing this a

12:08

long time. And so I think

12:11

they were really listen, would

12:13

listen to whatever we said. And

12:15

we were college coaches. We had never beaten

12:18

them in a tough game or said

12:20

something about him. So I think that was good.

12:22

I think that's important. I think that's a I

12:25

think that's a benefit. So that doesn't

12:27

mean that no players had a history with

12:29

coach k So, for example, Chris

12:32

Paul and Chris Boss had gone up against

12:34

him in their days playing at the in

12:36

the A. C. C. Bosh went to Georgia

12:39

Tech, and here's his memories of seeing Coach K and

12:41

the sidelines in those games. I only had one

12:43

year in a sec, but I mean he always

12:45

had that intense intenseness,

12:48

intense nature a

12:50

boy himself. So those couple of times

12:53

on um, you know, playing

12:56

duke, I mean you could hear him. He's right,

12:58

you know, right there, he's yelling at

13:00

his guys, encouraging them to play harder,

13:02

play better, and they are and man,

13:05

we're down twenty now. So when

13:08

those things are happening, you're super competitive.

13:10

You know, you tend not to like

13:12

that person. But I came into the situation,

13:15

of course, he's you know, Coach K, and you

13:17

know I came into the situation with an open

13:19

mind. And and um, we all

13:21

had to find ourselves in over six and o seven,

13:23

But by two thousand and eight, I think

13:26

we all had a pretty good uh

13:28

rhythm to what was going on and

13:31

how important it was for

13:33

everybody. Of course, and also if you played

13:36

in college as long as a guy like Darren

13:38

Williams did, and you had success going through the

13:40

n C Double A Tournament. Sooner or later, you're

13:42

gonna run across Coach K during the n

13:44

c Double A Tournament. I think Coach K was perfect

13:47

for us. You know, he was I feel like the

13:49

right person at that at that time, I felt like he

13:51

was even though he was a college guy. All

13:53

the NBA guys respected him,

13:55

you know, his body of work and then you

13:57

know his work ethic and you could just see the passion

14:00

he he had for the country

14:02

and for representing the USA basketball

14:04

And so I thought I thought he was perfect. And he

14:06

did such a great job of of you know, talking

14:09

to guys, motivating guys. I mean, you really

14:11

have to motivate us. Honestly, we were

14:14

pretty motivated as it was, you know,

14:16

once we made that commitment. But you

14:18

know, he just was. He just did some such a great

14:20

job of coaching and motivating and bringing

14:23

us together. And um, you know, it was

14:25

really awesome to play for him, even though I hated him

14:27

up to that point. Why would that be what what would

14:29

you connect? You just do?

14:31

Yeah, they beat us. Uh, my sophomore

14:34

year in the n ct A tournament, got got

14:36

some really questionable calls. So clearly

14:38

he was able to get over it. And

14:41

Kate did have one player that he coached in

14:43

college on the team, Carlos Boozer,

14:46

and I was curious how close coach

14:48

k had to having another Dukey on the squad,

14:51

and that was Kobe Bryant. Now there's

14:53

some alternate timelines where Kobe goes to

14:55

college instead of straight to the NBA from high

14:57

school. We've always assumed that he went to

14:59

college that be Duke. Someone

15:02

asked him on Twitter which school he would have chosen. He

15:04

replied Duke. But in he

15:07

also did a charity fundraising interview with Jimmy

15:09

Kimmel in which he said he would have gone to North Carolina.

15:12

So who knows how it would

15:14

have gone, which which alternate timeline.

15:16

Of course we know what ultimately happened.

15:19

But Jack you around in Philadelphia,

15:21

and Rashid Wallace had gone from Philly

15:23

to Carolina a couple of years before. Now I'm

15:25

wondering what was the speculation in Philadelphia

15:28

about what Kobe, who went to high school at

15:30

Lower Merion on the main line, what

15:32

Kobe was gonna do once it was time to

15:35

move on from high school. Well, the one thing

15:37

good about Kobe then that I don't remember,

15:40

and even did some research on it. He never played

15:42

footsie like a couple

15:45

other guys with Oh, I'm gonna stay in Philly. You know,

15:47

everybody praised the Philly coaches. John

15:50

Cheney's a genius. We love that

15:52

guy, Fran Dunfie, you know,

15:54

Phil Mark Tully, all these real Philly guys.

15:56

And then nobody went to school there. Rashid

16:00

Rashid Wallace left, Pooh Richardson

16:03

left, Bo Kimball left, Hank Gathers left,

16:05

Scoop Jardine, Eddie Griffin. There was a couple

16:07

of guys that stayed, Uh, Kyle

16:09

Lowry, Aaron McKee, Uh,

16:12

Lionel Simmons actually, who was a really

16:14

great player with sal Kobe didn't

16:16

do that. But as I recall

16:18

it, Jay, he did do a little bit of foot

16:20

see I I had He had said

16:23

at one point that North

16:25

Carolina stopped recruiting

16:27

me. Well, what he meant

16:30

was Dean Smith said to him, Dean

16:32

wouldn't talk like this, but he ain't

16:35

coming to college. You know, he's

16:38

going to the NBA. And I think

16:40

he kept the dance on a

16:42

little bit longer with with Mike,

16:45

with Shoski. But you know, and it's

16:47

funny, you know, because of all the kids

16:49

that jumped into college that

16:52

that didn't go to college, excuse me, Kobe

16:54

would have been, you know, really perfect

16:57

college guy, you know what I mean. He was a really

16:59

smart kid. He would have enjoyed

17:02

the classes he could have gone in there and you know,

17:04

spoken Italian to some people, but

17:06

really in the you

17:08

know, from the beginning, his m

17:10

O was I'm going

17:12

to go to the NBA, and I think

17:15

that was clear to most people. Well, here's

17:17

what coach Ka told us about his recruitment

17:19

or lack there of, of Kobe. You know, I never

17:21

thought he would go to college. We recruited

17:24

him, but it no one recruited him

17:26

to any deep level because

17:28

you knew, you know, like

17:31

I never saw Lebron play in high school.

17:33

But when I saw Kobe play, He's the

17:35

best high school player I've ever seen. And

17:39

when he walked into a gym,

17:42

he walked in like Jordan's at

17:44

a high school level. Like the place

17:46

stopped, you know, like he

17:49

not only could play the role

17:52

during a game, he played

17:54

the role before and after the

17:56

game. He looked that good,

17:59

he leave, he was that good

18:01

and he was that gud but

18:05

I knew he was never gonna come. So

18:07

of course, when Kobe did make his announcement,

18:09

here's what he had to say. No, I have

18:11

decided to skip college and take about towns to the

18:14

NBA and

18:16

Jack. I wonder what that Coach k Kobe

18:18

relationship would have been like if Kobe had

18:20

gone to Duke, and he would have arrived on

18:22

campus with that natural teenage rebellion

18:24

and and Coach k would have been the authority figure.

18:27

And it feels like there would have been an inevitable

18:29

class just like Kobe had with Phil Jackson

18:31

that we detailed in the second episode of

18:33

this series. But instead they

18:35

don't collaborate until they get together

18:38

on Team USA, and maybe they were even

18:40

peers at that point. Yeah,

18:43

sort of. I can't imagine if he

18:45

would have gone to college, Kobe

18:47

would have been a one year guy and

18:49

then talking to us. You know, he he

18:51

got his lesson about dealing with the pros

18:53

when he was an assistant on the Dream Team back in ninety

18:56

two, when he was all eager,

18:58

Hey, what should I do? What should I do? Coach? What should I do?

19:00

Chuck? Tell me what to do? You know, him and p J.

19:03

Car Lesimo are really excited, and

19:05

Chuck looks at them and goes learn

19:08

to ignore, meaning don't

19:10

look at everything. You know, Barkley is gonna

19:12

screw around and throw the ball at a wall, or

19:14

he's not gonna, you know, run hard

19:17

in every drill, you know take you

19:19

know, just don't have to notice everything

19:21

like you do with Duke, and Showski

19:24

even admitted that even

19:26

after that experience when he go went back

19:28

to his team, it changed them a little

19:31

bit. But you can't be the same

19:33

guy coaching college that you are in the pros.

19:35

And one of the great things we found out Jay

19:38

was how good coach K was

19:41

at dealing with pros. You know, nobody

19:43

had one bad thing to say.

19:45

And these were the biggest stars in the game on that Redeem

19:48

team. Absolutely, and uh

19:50

Jim Beehi, I've talked about that with us,

19:52

about the difference in Coach K the

19:54

college coach and coach K coach

19:56

and the Redeem team. The key with Mike

19:59

is that he is different in

20:01

college. What he does in college and what he did with those

20:04

guys. I mean, he was like a pro coach. He's

20:07

a master psychologist

20:10

master. It really the

20:13

mental aspect of coaching,

20:16

getting the players to contribute,

20:19

getting them to show that they're part of

20:21

the that they got we're saying

20:23

in what we're doing, uh,

20:26

and in getting them to accept their roles.

20:29

And they were good. The NBA players were great. You're

20:31

listening to Kobe Lebron and the

20:33

redeem Team. We'll be back in a minute.

20:41

So one thing that had to have helped was

20:43

that coach k wasn't acting like the

20:45

coach of Duke, and he was obsessed

20:49

and i'd say even repressed with coaching USA

20:51

basketball. And we talked to him.

20:53

I was amazed at the details that he remembered

20:55

from his time with that team, and we'll hear several

20:58

of them over the course of this podcast series. Also

21:00

the emotions that reservice, how he was getting choked

21:03

up at times telling us about some of the moments

21:05

that he shared with this group. And

21:07

it's not like he was tired of Duke and that

21:09

he was going through the motions. I mean, after this two

21:11

thousand and eight experience, he won two more

21:13

national championship at Duke and he sort

21:15

of got with the times and started recruiting

21:17

these one and done players. So it

21:20

wasn't like he was finished with Duke.

21:23

But those championships might even be more impressive

21:25

than the earlier ones, right, because he's older and there was

21:27

a bigger generation gap of the players. And I'm wondering

21:30

perhaps this experience helped him

21:32

connect with the new generation or new generations

21:34

of players from this this Olympic

21:37

odyssey that he went on. But I just

21:39

got the feeling that these Olympic gold medal

21:41

teams, remember he coached in in twelve and

21:43

sixteen as well, they just meant

21:45

something more to him. And Jack,

21:47

did you notice that when he talked to us, he was wearing a

21:49

USA Basketball shirt and not a Duke shirt.

21:52

Oh yeah, he probably made it. He had just come from

21:54

practice. I think he probably did one

21:56

of the quick change artists, you know.

21:58

Okay, but you know it isn't hard

22:00

j for him to get into that mode. He

22:02

goes way back with

22:05

USA Basketball. He was an assistant

22:07

to Bob Knight on

22:10

the infamous nineteen seventy

22:12

nine Puerto Rico Pan American game

22:14

when uh, when coach Knight put a Puerto

22:16

Rican policeman in a in a trash

22:19

can. So he goes way back

22:21

and he always wanted his guys

22:23

to play. You know, Christian Latner was

22:26

one of those guys. As much of a pain in the neck

22:28

as Christian could be. He was one of those

22:30

guys playing on the Junior USA national

22:32

teams over there, you know, where the toilets

22:35

wouldn't flush very well, and the and the

22:37

water wasn't always warm, and

22:39

so he always had this kind of soft

22:42

spot. And the fact that he

22:44

goes all the way back to nine seventy

22:47

nine and still, as you mentioned,

22:50

he's still coaching gold medal

22:52

teams in two thousand

22:54

and sixteen. At the same time, he's

22:57

keeping up a duke basketball

22:59

pro ram that's one that has remained

23:02

one of the tops in the nation over the last three decades.

23:04

That is pretty extraordinary. And

23:06

uh, Jim Beheim talks

23:08

about Mike Sassky in that respect.

23:11

Mike literally worry about this three d

23:13

days a year. Literally when he was

23:16

gonna do Renny for n C double

23:18

a term game, he was watching tape of you know,

23:20

Spain. He did. He really did that. He

23:23

brought into this is this

23:25

is it? I mean, he wouldn't

23:27

admit to it, probably, but this was the most important

23:30

thing for him. I think of all the things.

23:32

I mean, let's see, won five n C Double A championships,

23:35

but he worried and thought

23:37

and stressed on this every

23:40

day. He liked kneel on because the staff

23:42

like me along because I try to get him the

23:44

ease up a little bit. Here, Let's take a few

23:47

minutes off here, let's get away, let's

23:49

go to dinner, let's come down. It's

23:52

just funny to me this notion of Jim Beehive

23:54

as the chill guy, right, That's not

23:56

how we think of Jim Beheim. Is the guy to be like

23:58

Mike, calm down, settled down, lacks.

24:01

That's not the popular impression that we have a Jim Beehive.

24:03

And one of the things I found out being around

24:05

him for for his practices is

24:07

he kind of lets everything go. You

24:09

know, they're screwing around. The music is playing loud,

24:12

and Jim kind of looks up at the booth. They turn

24:15

off the music, and he strolls into

24:17

the huddle, and for whatever reason,

24:20

everybody shuts the hell up and

24:22

you can't hear what he's saying.

24:25

Now you get him into a game, you

24:28

know, then he kind of turns into that

24:31

whiney, gesticulating Jim

24:33

Beheim that we knew, but in

24:35

this kind of atmosphere, Jim

24:37

kind of understood that as the other

24:39

college coach, you know, and coach

24:42

K is gonna be watching film at four o'clock

24:44

in the morning, we're gonna be hearing about that. Later in the podcast,

24:47

Jim thought, now, I'm not gonna be

24:49

that guy, you know, I'm gonna be

24:51

kind of the as you said, the chill guy.

24:53

And he did have that in him. It's funny. I remember at

24:55

the Final four, uh

24:58

five, the one that was in New York that the

25:00

last non dome Final four actually,

25:03

and in the off day,

25:05

they have a media availability at the Merritt

25:08

Marquis Hotel in this ballroom, and Jim Beeheim's

25:10

up there, and he was so good

25:12

and so loose and relaxed they actually

25:14

had to cut off his mic so that they could go

25:16

on. I mean, he could have stayed up there all day.

25:19

He was having a great time dealing with the media in

25:21

this in this ballroom, in this New York City hotel room.

25:24

But uh, you know, on this two thousand

25:26

and eight staff, the Redeemed

25:28

Team staff, keep mind, it wasn't

25:30

just the college coaches. So It's not just Schowski in

25:32

Beheim. You had Mike Tantoni and

25:34

Nate McMillan, who are the NBA coaches on

25:36

this staff, and D'Antoni met with us

25:39

and he told us how adept coach k was

25:41

that managing this team. He was really

25:43

good at He understood

25:45

exactly how how much

25:47

to give them. You know, we always kept

25:49

saying, you want to be uh prepared,

25:51

but not over over prepared. You

25:54

know, I think we we did a lot of film work, we

25:56

watched games up games, but he

25:58

he really took care of the

26:00

players. He knew how exhausting it was playing

26:03

the NBA season, and he had a good field

26:05

of the team. And that's what you know, besides

26:07

the exes and ohs, which he's really good

26:09

at and uh, there's a lot of coaches

26:11

like that, but his is one of his

26:13

best things that he does is the

26:15

filling the pulse of the team and how much he

26:18

needs to talk to him or give him, give

26:20

him freedom or you know, I have like

26:23

you said, have selected hearing. Having

26:25

selected hearing is huge and

26:28

he didn't miss the beat on that.

26:31

I think one of the overlooked guys in this

26:33

Jay is is Nate McMillan, and it kind of

26:35

speaks to you know, it's almost an extension

26:37

of his playing career. He

26:39

was an All defensive team guy,

26:42

I think second team All Defense three

26:44

years and he was the one

26:46

that sort of reinforced

26:49

the seriousness of purpose of

26:52

of Shasky and you know, you

26:54

have to play. Everybody would laugh and say,

26:56

oh defense. You know, there was nothing you

26:59

had to d up in this for

27:01

the Redeemed team in two thousand and eight, you were

27:03

playing against prose who

27:05

from Spain, who shot threes. You

27:07

had to play the whole game.

27:10

And I think that's what Nate supplied,

27:12

that kind of intensity

27:15

and defensive philosophy that

27:17

Showski wanted to incorporate. Mike

27:20

D'Antoni, on the other hand, was

27:22

sort of the guy that, you know, I think

27:24

Chris Bosh told us off handedly, well,

27:27

you know, coach D'Antoni will go We'll just

27:29

outscore him, you know, And that

27:31

that was Mike. And is

27:34

it a positive or

27:36

a negative? Would his son's teams,

27:39

which I was around in the early aughts,

27:41

would they have won a championship

27:43

if Mike had a little more Nate

27:46

McMillan or Mike Showsky and him.

27:48

I know what D'Antoni would say, you're full

27:50

of crap. Uh, you know, you gotta

27:52

be the way you're gonna be. But they were

27:54

a great pairing. I think Mike

27:57

for a little bit of the hey, let's play loose offensively,

27:59

let's to be ourselves, and and Nate

28:01

would say, hey, we gotta locked down once

28:04

in a while. You know this isn't

28:08

this is two thousand and eight when we got

28:10

the Gasol brothers and uh

28:12

guy shooting NBA three pointers.

28:15

So they were a good match. Yeah, And you

28:17

know, Sezsky would turn to them for not

28:20

just philosophy but also specific

28:22

play calls, right and in in a huddle,

28:24

he was more than willing to turn over

28:26

the clipboard and let those guys diagram

28:29

plays. And also he'd

28:31

get advice from them on not freaking out if

28:34

the players appeared to be preoccupied

28:36

with other things. During his pregame speech,

28:38

I relied tremendously on

28:40

Mike D'Antoni and Nate tell

28:43

me what a pro grat like. Even as

28:45

scouting reports and things like that,

28:47

a big thing for me was talking

28:51

to them before a game and what

28:53

the hell they were doing. I'm used to a team

28:56

just sitting there and doing I mean, they're

28:58

doing all kind of crap. You know, they're

29:00

they they're putting their feed on

29:03

tennis balls, they're rolling their bodies,

29:05

they're stretching, they're

29:08

whatever. And that's happened the

29:10

first time. And Nathan Mike

29:12

said, don't worry. They're paying attention. And

29:14

I said, makes me nervous, And they said, don't

29:16

be nervous. In other words, don't

29:18

try to change their environment in

29:21

certain things, and you

29:24

change your way of looking at that

29:26

environment. And I've benefited

29:28

greatly from having that

29:31

pro influence and any side

29:33

out of bounced play, I let them diagram

29:35

too, because the NBA has only

29:38

six thousand, four hundred and thirty three

29:40

side out of bounce place. And

29:43

uh, I just relied on them

29:45

a lot. So I call all

29:47

those guys like our co coaches. Really

29:49

they were. We really worked

29:52

well together as a as a group, you

29:54

know. And also it was better

29:56

for them to hear more voices

29:59

than mine, and they

30:01

knew how good MICUs and Nate and

30:04

you know, for me not not to let them

30:07

do their thing would be numb.

30:10

I mean, Mike is one of the most

30:12

brilliant offensive minds. He

30:14

would always say, though, don't worry, we'll outscorm

30:17

I said, no, let's play some different sounds

30:20

like, let's let's play.

30:23

I'd be more comfortable if he's

30:26

played some. So

30:28

Nate was big obviously is one of the great

30:30

defensive players. Uh in the n

30:32

b A. I said, don't let him influence

30:35

you. Let's get a good balance. You're

30:37

listening to Kobe, Lebron and the

30:39

Redeem Team. We'll be back in a minute

30:49

now. One of the things that that Sky

30:51

did which was very smart, was

30:54

take input not just from the assistance,

30:56

but also from the players. And a lot of coaches

30:58

are slow to understand. And you're

31:01

talking about two thousand and eight Redeem

31:03

Team, as was the case with the two Dream

31:05

Team, you're talking about some of the smartest

31:08

players ever to play the game. I

31:10

mean, Lebron James's basketball

31:12

like you, I don't know where

31:15

do you put it. It's on a level certainly with

31:17

with Larry Birds, Oscar Robertson's

31:20

you know magics and coach k

31:22

took input from them as well as the assistance.

31:25

Before we ever had a practice, I met with

31:27

those my leadership team. It's kid

31:30

Dwayne Kobe and Lebron and

31:32

I said, well, you know, we got a short period. We've

31:34

gotta have two practices a day. And

31:36

they looked at me and said, you know, coach, we can't do

31:38

that. So I don't know if they're punking me or

31:41

whatever. That's what he means,

31:43

says, we all have our routines

31:45

in the morning, pilates, whatever

31:48

it is. We have a team meeting,

31:50

will practice, some of us will want

31:52

to work after practice, some

31:55

of us will want to come at night. Let us

31:57

have our routines, and you don't have

31:59

to do any condition. Shinning will be in

32:01

condition. That's what we do in

32:03

our routines. So okay,

32:06

that's what we did, and I'll tell you what they did

32:08

that. We added more court coaches

32:11

because we found that me

32:14

or Beheim running the drill was not good,

32:16

and even D'Antoni running the drill was

32:18

not good. Nate pretty good. And

32:22

so we had assistance like Wojo

32:24

Chris Collins, assistants

32:26

in the NBA. We had so we had

32:29

a bevy of guys around.

32:31

So whenever these guys needed something,

32:34

they would go to the gym with them. And

32:36

sometimes even during the competition

32:39

pool play, we would not

32:41

have a practice. We would we'd

32:43

call it a spa day, but it

32:46

was more of a day for you. And

32:48

they would we would go to the gym

32:50

and they would do all their individual stuff

32:53

and I weren't. And you know what, by them

32:55

doing it, they saw each other

32:59

and how they herod. It

33:01

really was a tutorial really

33:03

for all of them. Whatever they show on TV

33:05

is one thing. What they do in private, they

33:08

have their own stuff. And

33:10

uh, that was a big thing for me. Yeah,

33:13

because you're as a college coach or

33:15

a little bit more of a micro manager, you

33:17

know, in that regard. So we've talked about

33:20

identity as a theme here, and one thing

33:22

to keep in mind is that Mike Saschefki is

33:24

a graduate of the United States Military Academy

33:26

at West Point, and from the moment

33:28

that he first gathered this team for meetings

33:30

and training camps in Las Vegas, he

33:33

really tied the national basketball team's preparation

33:35

for the Olympics into the Armed Forces.

33:38

The team visited military bases, they

33:40

invited service members and their families

33:42

to watch practices and scrimmages. He

33:44

had veterans and high ranking officers speak

33:46

to the team, even had camouflage

33:49

warm ups made up for the players and coaches

33:51

and even Jerry Colangelo when they visited

33:53

a military base ahead of one of the tournaments,

33:56

and h Chris Boss spoke to the

33:59

military theme that was so pervasive

34:01

throughout the preparation for the Olympics. We met

34:04

men and women who served

34:06

who got We met

34:08

one gentleman he fended

34:10

off a bomb and the debris got

34:13

in his eyes, blew up and got

34:15

in his eyes. Was blind. He re enlisted,

34:18

you know, um,

34:20

hearing hearing stories like that,

34:22

and always, I mean they always, like damn

34:24

here every day we would meet someone

34:27

talking to two and three star generals and at

34:29

the same time as well then telling you about

34:31

leadership and what

34:34

it means to wear that flag

34:36

on your chest and how important it is. I mean, it was

34:39

intense, man, it was intense.

34:42

And then before we you know, we didn't

34:44

even um, we hadn't even left Vegas yet,

34:46

you know, So it was just you

34:48

saw how important it was to represent

34:50

America, to represent the United

34:52

States of America and who's watching and

34:55

what it means to a lot of people, and so

34:57

we wanted to reciprocate that energy and show

34:59

them, Okay, it means a lot to us too. But

35:01

it started with Coach K, you know, with Coach

35:03

K and uh Colangelo.

35:06

You know, those guys. They showed

35:08

how important it was, you know, by

35:11

by setting the tone of having the military

35:13

men and women in Vegas, I mean, as soon as

35:16

we got there, you know, And and it was always

35:18

a part of the process. Sometimes it would be

35:21

you know, Coach K telling some story

35:23

when he was a basketball player at West Point or something

35:26

like that, and you

35:29

know, it was always ingrained. It was in pretty

35:31

much ingrained in UH in the narrative

35:33

the whole time. And Ski

35:36

told us that was all very intentional.

35:38

We used to military like crazy

35:41

to help us feel being

35:45

USA. And the

35:47

first group that we had

35:49

talked to our team Bob

35:52

Brown, one of my former players at West

35:54

Point. It's a Colonel Pint just retired as

35:56

a fourth star general. He brought

35:58

three wounded war years sent

36:00

to speak to our team about selfless

36:02

service. One of them was blind

36:04

Scottie Smiley, who became the

36:07

first blind officer in the United States

36:09

Army, and two other non

36:11

commissioned officers who had lost limbs,

36:14

and all three of them had

36:17

no excuses and they wanted to serve.

36:19

Again, two thirds of those guys

36:21

were crying listening to

36:24

them. And you know,

36:26

you don't own something by just hearing

36:28

and seeing, you own something

36:30

by feeling. And the

36:32

military helped us immensely feel.

36:36

That's why we always did things with

36:39

the military, so that our

36:41

guys got it and they all, we all

36:44

became better people from being in there.

36:46

And really that's the essence upon

36:49

which that team and then

36:51

the future teams built

36:54

on that. That was the culture,

36:56

and God bless those guys for being

36:58

able to feel that way. You

37:00

mentioned you really leaned on that military

37:03

connection. And for

37:06

some people it's it's a little it's such a subject,

37:08

right, mixing sports and military, and they wonder

37:10

about the appropriateness of that. But

37:13

I would figure if anyone had the license to do that,

37:15

it was somebody who went to army.

37:17

And I'm wondering what you learned at West

37:19

Point about and and and how

37:21

the West Point culture uh

37:24

equated sports and military

37:26

and how how those two things could be compared

37:28

and mixed. Yeah, well, a couple of things.

37:30

One, every cadet is an athlete. That

37:33

that's one of the other words. There's

37:36

not a cadet there that doesn't participate

37:38

in sport. It either the

37:40

company level, intermural club,

37:43

or varsity. And

37:45

that was the Thayer model of education

37:48

that sport, you

37:51

know, pond the fields of friendly st

37:53

all those great quotes that they

37:55

we all believe in it because

37:58

we we see that it actually

38:00

happens. The other thing with sport. It put

38:03

the guy who might be the number one guy in his

38:05

class and engineering and whatever,

38:08

but who could hardly catch

38:10

a ball be on the bench.

38:13

You know. It put you in different roles

38:16

of and and so in all

38:18

these things. By being in sport, you

38:20

learned h different roles,

38:23

but you weren't learned empathy, you

38:25

know. And you learned how to be a

38:27

member of a squad. We

38:29

also learned how to be a squad leader. So

38:33

you know how we did that in leadership

38:35

and training. And we take

38:37

an oath. Every cadet, every

38:39

West Point graduate is the same. And

38:42

the fact that we've all taken the same oath, and

38:44

that's the lifetime of service

38:46

to our country, whether it's in military

38:49

or civilian. And so even

38:51

with the Redeemed team, uh,

38:53

we we took an oath of

38:56

playing for our country. But those standards,

39:00

you know, I said, you guys. At some other time

39:03

during that summer week, I said, uh,

39:06

you guys are used to signing a contract,

39:09

and I said, if you believe in this

39:11

shop, I want you to sign

39:14

the standards. But Coach K was smart. You

39:16

know, it wasn't just West Point, it

39:18

was also Motown. And Coach

39:20

K used that soulful Marvin Gay

39:22

national anthem from the three

39:25

NBA All Star Game in Los Angeles. He

39:28

used that to motivate the players as

39:30

well as the military stuff. As Carmelo

39:32

Anthony alludes to here, Coach

39:35

K did a great job of making

39:37

us understand what we're playing for.

39:40

He did a great job of letting us know you're

39:42

playing for. You have USA on

39:45

your on your chest. That means a lot. You

39:47

know. Like even when we when we change the

39:50

national anthem, right when we

39:52

we we put in you know, we

39:54

we started listening to the Marvin Gay

39:56

national anthem. That was Coach K doing,

39:59

you know. That was his way of like, listen,

40:01

this is bigger than you, guys, this is

40:03

bigger than us. And when you hear that that Marvin

40:06

Gay, you know, national anthem, you get goose

40:08

bumps. And Coach K would just play it, play

40:10

it play and play it so we understood, you

40:12

know, what we was up against. And

40:14

here's Darren Williams again to tell us how

40:17

it all came together to instill this sense

40:19

of national pride in the team. It was our

40:21

way of serving the country. You know. We we didn't

40:23

go to war. We didn't go you know, like

40:26

like our military does. We don't go and fight

40:28

for our country. That was kind of our way. I feel

40:30

like I'm representing the country of of

40:32

giving back. And

40:34

I think there was a level of pride because of

40:37

where USA basketball had had gotten to,

40:39

you know, with what happened in OH four and

40:41

things like that, and so I think that's

40:44

what made it it's so special. Was

40:46

was you know, the reason it's called the Redeemed

40:48

Team, you know, because we were able to redeem what happened

40:50

in for kind of put USA basketball

40:53

back on top. So ultimately, what

40:55

Coach k was able to do was created a shared

40:58

environment, a community that they could all

41:00

inhabit and we stay at equal rights and

41:02

input, and ultimately

41:04

they were all rewarded for that. And he shared

41:07

with us a conversation he had with Kobe Bryant after

41:09

the twelve gold medal game in London,

41:11

which was Kobe's last with the Olympic team.

41:14

Yes, it's not to make the details public, so we'll

41:16

honor that. But it was obvious

41:18

that those type of exchanges were as valuable

41:20

a part of this whole experience as anything

41:22

else was for him. These guys gave

41:25

you a lot of private moments

41:28

that they wouldn't give other

41:31

people. And I think that

41:33

environment it was a good neighborhood to live

41:35

in. So that's it for episode

41:37

five. Remember we're not even in Beijing

41:40

yet, so we're gonna be hearing a lot more about

41:42

coach ks tactics, about

41:45

his interactions with Kobe and Lebron and

41:47

Wayne Wade and everybody else. But

41:49

remember what's happened. Now we have Gary

41:52

Colangelo's in charge, the

41:54

Godfather, he has his coach,

41:56

Mike Sky. Everybody's

41:58

in love with everybody. Ye, so an episode

42:01

six, the team comes together and

42:03

everything is instantly wonderful, right,

42:06

Well, not really Remember

42:08

the episode we called the Greek Tragedy when

42:10

we won the bronze medal in two thousand four.

42:13

Well, an incident involving

42:15

the Greeks, not the ancient ones but the

42:17

modern ones occurs in two thousand

42:20

six, and we're going to talk about

42:22

that in episode six. But here's

42:24

a little tease of how important

42:27

a loss was in the two thousand

42:29

six World Championships to the

42:31

Redeemed Team. When we lost in two

42:33

thousand six. The Redeemed Team

42:36

really has its origin from what

42:38

we learned in two oh six was

42:41

that you can't It's

42:43

kind of like the US military

42:46

in Vietnam. You can't just send

42:48

people over there and think because you're good, that you're gonna

42:50

You have to train together, you have

42:52

to learn about their

42:54

game. You know you

42:57

you can't be arrogant and I'm

42:59

prepared are and remember Season

43:02

one of the Dream Team Tapes, which

43:04

talks about the Dream Team in Barcelona,

43:07

is still available on the I Heart Radio

43:10

app or wherever you get your favorite

43:12

podcast. So I'm

43:14

Jack McCallum, thanks for listening, and I'm

43:16

j Dande will catch you next episode

43:24

The Dream Team Tapes, Season two.

43:27

Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team

43:29

is a production of Diversion Podcasts

43:32

in association with I Heart Radio.

43:35

For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit

43:37

the i Heart Radio app, Apple

43:40

Podcasts, where wherever you get

43:42

your podcast. This

43:44

season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum

43:47

and j Adande. Executive

43:49

producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances

43:52

for Diversion podcast and Sean's

43:54

High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our

43:56

editorial director is John Tuttle. Supervising

44:00

producer Brian Murphy, legal

44:02

producer Freddie Overstegen, Editing,

44:04

mixing and sound designed by Mark franztz.

44:07

Verna Fields is our technical producer,

44:10

and our Director of Marketing and business

44:12

Development is Jacob Bronstein Diversion

44:22

Podcasts