0:01

The Dream Team Tapes season two.

0:04

Kobe, Lebron and the Redeem Team

0:06

is a production of Diversion Podcasts

0:09

in association with I Heart Radio

0:21

Diversion Podcasts. The

0:25

players selected for the honor of representing

0:28

the United States in the two thousand and eight

0:30

Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe

0:34

Bryant. We

0:36

look forward to this for a while, you know, to be in this

0:38

position now to here, we don't represent our county man,

0:42

especially special Lebron

0:45

James. We look for an

0:47

opportunity of the weekend on Athlema being the best

0:49

in the world. I guess the Redeem Team is because

0:51

it is right, we're the

0:53

best team in the world. We're the best team in the

0:55

world. We put Basketball America, basketball

0:58

wheels debeat, which is that, yes,

1:20

Carmelo Anthony. For weeks now we've heard you

1:22

say we're the best team in the world. We're the best team

1:25

in the world. And now at last we're gonna

1:27

find out how that happened. The place

1:29

Beijing, the year two thousand and eight.

1:31

The teams the United States Redeemed

1:33

Team versus Spain, the Stakes

1:36

and Olympic gold Medal. Welcome

1:38

Do Episode ten of Kobe Lebron and

1:40

the Redeemed team, which we're calling Labuskata

1:44

pata l a, the quest

1:46

for the gold that came after consultation

1:48

with my son Chris, who's a Spanish translator.

1:52

And wait, let's stand at attention. Okay, sitting

1:54

at attention co host Jaya dandhe for

1:56

a few bars of the Spanish national anthem,

2:00

watch real now

2:05

that is one of only four national anthems.

2:07

Incidentally, that has no lyrics. There were

2:09

no bombs bursting in air, there's no rockets,

2:11

red glare and after some international

2:14

competition, the Spaniards were roundly

2:16

criticized for not singing

2:18

their national anthem, when in fact

2:21

there is nothing to sing anyway.

2:23

Two questions co host j adande,

2:27

which language did you study in high

2:29

school? And more importantly, give

2:32

us a brief sub up on how we got

2:34

to this moment the United States versus

2:37

Spain in the gold medal game in two

2:39

thousand eight. Jack

2:42

I studied French in high school, although

2:45

I did take a little Spanish in college,

2:47

and growing up in Los Angeles, as I did,

2:49

you're surrounded by the Spanish language, so

2:51

you absorb some words,

2:54

so to speak. So I'm

2:57

familiar with Spain. I I can get it. I

2:59

would try to go back and forth and joke

3:01

with Palkasol and Spanish every now and then and

3:03

sort of make fun of my limited Spanish abilities.

3:06

But I can absorb it. I get.

3:08

I get the title of the episode put it

3:10

that way. How did we get here? How were they playing

3:12

in the Olympics. They've played seven

3:15

games, including Spain before,

3:18

So just give us a little sum up on how

3:20

it's been going for the US in these Beijing

3:23

Games, Jack, because you we watch the

3:25

difference in the athletic ability is so

3:27

stunning, and they'll get a breakaway

3:29

and Lebron James or Dwayne Wade or Kobe

3:32

will just soar through the air. There

3:34

they're so fast too, and the

3:37

moments when they're able to exercise

3:40

and flaunt their athletic ability that

3:42

there's just nothing else in the world that's close to

3:44

that. And so they haven't enough

3:46

of those moments to really cruise throughout

3:49

most of the competition. But against Spain

3:52

it's a little more limited. And you really see

3:54

the beauty of basketball in this and that there's these moments

3:57

where the USA does have that superior

3:59

athletic ability, but it

4:01

takes more than that to win in basketball, and that's the beauty

4:03

of the game. It does take strategy and skill

4:06

as well. And Spain, more

4:08

than any other team throughout the Olympics, pushed

4:12

United States to rely on all of its skill

4:15

and coach k to rely on strategy

4:17

and for them to come together

4:20

and be more resilient. Uh.

4:22

You know that they could have been challenged

4:24

in the in the semifinal games against Argentina,

4:27

but Monty Genoble hurts his ankle

4:29

and doesn't get to play the rest of the

4:31

game and US winds up playing

4:33

pretty comfortable there. Sachefsky has

4:35

defined his team and you see these

4:38

roles coming to play in the gold medal game too. So it's

4:40

Jason Kidd comes in, pushes the tempo,

4:44

sets other guys up. Isn't looking

4:46

to shoot at all, Kobe Bryant's looking

4:48

to shoot plenty, Kobe Bryant's taking three

4:50

point shots. Dwayne Wade is

4:53

amazing and is the leading

4:55

score for this team and and has his moments

4:57

in the gold medal game. So one thing about

4:59

this game, you can see it, and you can see the

5:02

best elements and you can see how

5:04

indicative this game was. Of what this team,

5:07

how it was built, and how it played. You

5:10

know, Spain, for its part, has had a good up

5:12

to this point, has had a good but not a great Olympics.

5:15

It included a hundred nineteen to eighty

5:17

two loss to the United States

5:19

in an early round game. It was a no contest.

5:22

Eight US players scored in double figures.

5:25

Lebron dominated the game with eighteen points

5:27

eight assists, and Spain just didn't

5:30

look like it came to play, which

5:32

it probably didn't. And here's Craig

5:35

Miller, USA Basketball's public relations

5:37

chief, who has been around international

5:39

ball for decades on the

5:41

well, let's just say the philosophy of some

5:43

European teams in these preliminary

5:46

round games. We had played Spain

5:48

earlier in preliminary playing beat them pretty

5:50

badly as well. But you know, kind

5:53

of the European teams have a tradition of when

5:56

they start off these preliminary

5:58

games and they get behind, it is kind of let

6:00

up because there's nothing It doesn't

6:03

mean that much whether they're the one seed or the two seeds

6:05

to them, but you know they're going to have to play well and

6:07

win or other games. But you

6:09

absolutely could not count

6:11

out Spain for this gold medal game,

6:14

for the same reason that these international

6:16

teams Spain, Argentina, Lithuania,

6:19

Croatia, sometimes even France presents

6:22

such formidable opposition. As

6:25

redeemed team assistant coach Mike D'Antoni

6:27

points out, you have to understand all these guys

6:31

Spain and every country, they

6:33

started playing together, and they're like thirteen years old.

6:35

Every summer they're together, and by

6:38

the time you hit him, when they're like thirty years

6:40

old. They played together fifteen twenty

6:42

years and they

6:44

knew each other inside out. I'm gonna

6:46

push back a little bit on that because Ricky

6:48

Rubio didn't look like he'd been playing with them for fifteen

6:51

to twenty years. Because Rickey Rubio looked like

6:53

he was fifteen years old at the time. If you go back

6:55

and which step look at that footage, I mean he

6:57

looks like a teenager. Yeah, he looks like a

7:00

kid in eighties sitcom, you

7:02

know, who's like getting mud all

7:04

over the floor of his parents house, or like a

7:06

ball boy. He had wandered out onto the court. That

7:09

doesn't mean he wasn't very effective, and that doesn't

7:11

mean that the Spanish team the rest of the

7:13

guys didn't have that that sort

7:15

of spree to cord to use a French term

7:17

on the Spanish team, but they had

7:19

this this sense of belonging, this

7:22

togetherness, and the USA

7:24

had to sort of manufacture that and jump

7:26

start that. And but that was a big part of

7:29

the reason why Jerry Colangelo, the Godfather,

7:31

wanted that three year commitment, was that if

7:34

he couldn't replicate the the

7:36

effect of a team being together for a

7:38

decade, he could at least have them be together

7:40

through multiple iterations and have gone

7:42

through some ups and downs and have the memories.

7:45

That's why it was good that you had guys like Carmelo

7:47

and Lebron who had been on the two thousand four team

7:49

that lost. They had that memory that had been on the

7:51

two thousand and six team that lost in the

7:53

World Championships and had that memory that

7:56

collective experience together.

7:59

And let's not forget a lot of these guys.

8:01

People like to do ride the au culture

8:03

in in American basketball,

8:06

but in this case it helps that some of these

8:08

guys had played together for a long time.

8:11

Maybe they weren't on a national team together

8:13

like players from Spain or

8:15

Argentina, but Carmelo,

8:18

Dwayne Wade, Lebron, James. These guys knew

8:20

each other, They've been playing with each other for a long time. They were

8:22

familiar with each other. And again, I think all

8:24

of that comes into play into this game,

8:26

no question. And and even beyond

8:29

this sort of this

8:32

kind of unfactorable team

8:34

cohesion and being together for a long time,

8:37

Spain is just damn good, you know.

8:39

So, as we're gonna say we're ready for tip

8:41

off, US sends out its usual

8:44

starting lineup, Kobe and j Kidded, guard

8:46

Lebron and Carmelo, Anthony and forward Dwight Howard

8:48

at center. The gun Slinger, Flash

8:51

the man. Coach k calls rocket Man.

8:54

It's not gonna be long before he comes into the

8:56

game. But Spain, okay,

8:58

here's who they're sending out. K A Juan

9:00

Carlos Navarro, who had just finished his

9:02

rookie year with Memphis, although he did he

9:05

did go back and play mostly in Spain. Ricky

9:07

Rubio, the eighties sitcom

9:09

kid who is a hell of a point guard,

9:12

even though he looks a little overmatched

9:14

in this game. There were also two formidable

9:17

Spanish league stars and Felipe A. Ray's

9:19

and Carlo Simenez and off the bench

9:21

Rudy Fernandez, who had just

9:23

average eleven points per game with Portland,

9:26

Jose call the Roun who's in the middle of

9:28

a long NBA career, and

9:30

a budding star in Mark Gasol,

9:33

who's about as rough a dude as

9:35

the Olympics could offer. And I

9:38

think I'm forgetting the big one. But the

9:40

other starter for Spain, he's

9:43

your guy. Tell him about it, j A. Tell us

9:45

about pall Gasol, Pal Gasol,

9:47

the recently minted Lakers. So

9:50

that's the same year that he joins the Lakers

9:52

in the trade, comes over from the Memphis

9:54

Grizzlies, and he and Kobe

9:57

immediately bond become a

9:59

new dynam mcdouoh that goes to the Inn Bay Finals

10:01

and gets stomped by the Boston Celtics,

10:04

but clearly he had turned the

10:06

Lakers back into a championship contender, along

10:09

with the presidence of Kobe Bryant at his m

10:11

v P best form. And

10:14

it's funny just watching some of the plays

10:16

in this it reminds me of Pow in

10:18

the Laker uniform. In particular is playing the second

10:20

half where he post up and comes to

10:22

the middle and then turns back and has this lefty hook

10:25

shot that goes in. Uh. He had a great

10:27

shooting touch. He was a deft

10:29

passer as well. Uh.

10:32

Really smart guy. It's

10:34

funny. Kobe used to try to really push him.

10:36

Remember the famous black Swan speech that

10:38

I need to be more of the Black Swan, can't

10:40

be the white Swan. Sometimes Kobe thought that Poal

10:43

needed to be a little tougher, and Kobe would do his

10:45

best to bring that out of him. Phil Jackson

10:47

wants punched pau Gasolt in the chest

10:50

to try to get him to toughen up a little bit. That was

10:52

actually when it phils last games

10:54

with the Lakers in a in a playoff series

10:56

lost to Dallas. So there

10:58

was that need to extract a little bit

11:01

of the toughness from him. But the skill

11:04

and the intelligence um

11:06

and just a beautiful player to watch play

11:08

basketball, if you want to use that word

11:10

to describe it. Uh. For a

11:13

guy that size, a guy

11:15

that's tall, to be so skilled

11:17

and have such a soft shooting touch. Was

11:20

really a unique player. And again team with Kobe

11:22

Bryant made the Lakers one of the best teams in the league. Did

11:24

Kobe called Pale his favorite

11:26

teammates somewhere along the line, or did I imagine

11:29

that? I don't. I don't know

11:31

if he actually specifically said that, but

11:33

they had a very very special

11:36

bond. Kobe probably doesn't think of any teammate

11:38

as his that's his favorite. Maybe

11:40

it's probably somebody on this team. It's

11:43

probably somebody from the two thousand

11:45

eight or two thousand twelve Olympic teams.

11:47

But so we're all set. You

11:50

got the you got real NBA,

11:52

true NBA talent on the floor, and

11:55

the game j A is hardly highly

11:57

charged from the beginning. This ain't no aliminary

12:00

round. And Coach K interestingly

12:03

goes early. I think it's one of those

12:05

games where people were going to be losing

12:07

a little bit of their wind. You know, it's so fraught

12:10

with tension, these gold medal games. So

12:13

Coach K goes early to a combo Chris

12:15

Paul, Darren Williams, Chris Bosh

12:17

and Tayshawn Prince, and that really

12:20

ups their energy a little bit. What it

12:22

kind of looks like a modern team a little

12:24

bit. You know, the way they played, what is the what

12:26

did they give him? Well, for one thing, you get you get

12:28

a point guard or point guards, and Chris Paul and Daryn

12:31

Williams who can attack. And and Jason

12:33

Kidd again he set the tempo. He was looking to set

12:35

other guys up, but he's not gonna be

12:38

on the attack. And there's a couple of

12:40

moments where Spain actually goes up by five points

12:43

to go up nineteen fourteen. They go up seventeen

12:45

and both times Chris Paul answers.

12:47

He gets to the basket and he's got an answer

12:50

for that. He goes on the attack, and that's not something

12:52

that you would get from Jason Kidd. So

12:54

you have that, you have the defensive presidents, you you

12:57

have even some offense from from from Tashaun

12:59

Prince. Um. You know he makes

13:02

three shots that there's one shot the Tasha

13:04

makes where his arm extends on

13:06

a layup and it looks like his arm goes up to the rafts.

13:09

When you talk about the definitive qualities of Tashawn

13:11

Prince, it's those long arms, and

13:13

you see that come into play in the first

13:16

half of this game. Competitive The USA

13:18

goes up by thirteen points at one pot

13:21

three after a rugged first quarter twenty

13:24

three free throws were shot in the first quarter. It's

13:26

pretty rough and tumbling their physical game.

13:29

Um, you get Wade and

13:31

Kobe both then for a little while in the second

13:33

quarter, and that's when they take that big lead, and

13:36

you think about it, the majesty of having

13:38

what we're clearly at the time the two

13:40

best shooting guards in the NBA,

13:43

Kobe Bryant, and it was really it

13:46

wasn't one and two, it was one A and one

13:48

bat that that's how good these two guys

13:50

were, and that's how good Twyne

13:52

Wade had become that soon in his career.

13:55

And to see both of them on the court

13:58

at the same time on same team was

14:01

pretty amazing. And it pushes the USA

14:03

up to lead, but

14:06

uh, they can't hold it, and

14:08

it's down to single duds before

14:10

halftime, one

14:13

at halftime, and then the United States.

14:15

We had mentioned this before. It's

14:17

just basketball. I mean, people go, how

14:19

do they how are they so good? And then

14:21

they fall asleep. It's basketball.

14:24

The other team kind of wakes up

14:26

and in the third quarter they come out a little

14:28

tepid. The play that struck me the

14:30

most j was uncharacteristically,

14:33

somebody just wrenches the ball out of

14:35

Lebron's hands. I mean, you know,

14:38

normally that would take like four people. So

14:40

Spain cuts the lead seventy

14:43

one with about six minutes left in the

14:45

third quarter. Now and Coach

14:47

K goes all Chicago on their ass.

14:49

You know, I can't exactly everybody

14:52

can look at this game, by the way, go to go to

14:54

YouTube and google USA versus

14:56

Spain. As I've said before, we're not

14:58

allowed to play clip from the game, but it's

15:01

a fantastic game. And Coach

15:03

K, I think, says, start

15:05

playing fucking defense, like I know you

15:07

can, and and sure enough what

15:09

had happened was one Carlos Navarro got

15:12

loose on a high pick and roll that was played

15:14

unaggressively by h. Dwight

15:16

Howard. But it's one of those coaching

15:18

explosions. You know, I love coaching

15:21

explosion stories. You've got you have

15:23

any from your from your career, any you remember

15:26

I've got two When was John Thompson. It wasn't

15:28

a verbal explosion in the huddle like that. It was a

15:30

physical explosion where they're playing

15:32

a nonconference opponent, they're blowing them out, and

15:35

one of his players on the court gets

15:37

a breakaway and does a three sixty

15:40

dunk, and John thinks he's

15:42

showing up the competition and he can't

15:44

wait to get him out of here. And he just goes

15:46

down the sideline, reaches down, grabs

15:48

the nearest player he can find. I don't even think he looked

15:51

to see if it was the right position to replace

15:53

his player. He wanted to get out here, grabs a kid

15:55

by the jersey, throws him

15:57

down to the scorer's table to check

16:00

it. I'll never kid just reaches out, grabs his kid's

16:02

jersey, throws him the scores able to check in and get

16:04

this kid out of there. Another great coaching

16:06

showdown moment involved Phil Jackson

16:08

actually backing down the middle of Game seven

16:12

Western Conference Finals two thousands, two

16:14

Lakers at Sacramento Arco Arena,

16:16

packed its noisy, It's one of the tensest games

16:19

I've ever covered. And Robert or

16:21

is running down court and Phil Jackson yells

16:23

at him for some defensive

16:25

mis Q. And Rob's point

16:28

was that he was covering up for somebody else's

16:30

mistake. It wasn't his fault. Phil should beyelling at the

16:32

other guys. So you see Phil

16:35

yelling at rob Ory, and then Rob

16:37

yells back at him, and then Phil just says,

16:39

okay, and it's over. My

16:42

favorite guy, don't. Did you ever have the pleasure of watching

16:45

uh Doug mo coach

16:47

the great Denver? Yeah, I remember watching

16:49

him coach. Yeah, Doug was Doug

16:52

was insane and I and I loved watching

16:54

Doug. And Doug would be there before

16:56

the game, like you could be talking to Doug

16:59

to set before the game and he could be

17:01

making a joke the minute

17:04

the game started. And I was there one

17:06

night and Wayne Cooper, one of the one

17:08

of the best guys ever to play, real good

17:11

natured and a real good defensive center for Doug.

17:14

The game starts, Doug shirt immediately

17:16

like comes out of his pants. He starts going

17:19

crazy. Ten seconds into the game.

17:21

Ten seconds Doug screams,

17:23

Coop, you're playing with your

17:26

head and your ass, and Cooper

17:28

goes, there wasn't even time. There

17:30

wasn't even time for me to take a defensive

17:33

position, you know. So I just

17:35

love Doug went from zero

17:37

to sixty better than anybody.

17:40

But anyway, so the United

17:42

States responds to this a

17:44

little bit, but this is a tough team

17:46

they're playing. They recovered to lead

17:49

to eight two after three periods, So this sort

17:52

of this sort of non double

17:54

digit lead, you know, would continue

17:56

the first period, the second period and the

17:58

third period. Space stayed in the

18:00

zone most of the game. And it's one

18:03

of those games, Jay, when they just you

18:05

know, you were draining jumper

18:07

after jumper. I mean that rarely

18:10

happens in those high pressure, high

18:13

high stakes games. It was a spirited

18:15

effort by both teams, you know. And in Spain,

18:17

Man, they don't get enough credit, you know, they

18:19

do not get enough credit for how good that that

18:22

team was. I mean, you know, they had five

18:24

or six guys, probably

18:26

seven or eight. I'm sure I'm missing a couple, um

18:29

that had NBA experience,

18:31

they played in the league, and those guys have been playing together

18:33

since their fifteen sixteen years old, you

18:36

know, so their

18:39

their effort doesn't get enough credit

18:42

because I remember, like we kept you

18:44

know, you make the adjustments in game. Usually

18:48

we'd have a bit more breathing room,

18:50

you know, Okay, if it was closed to be like okay, eighteen,

18:53

we need to close them out, you

18:55

know, a single possession game coming down

18:57

to the wire. I don't think any of us expected

18:59

it, but um, you know, in

19:01

those moments, you just have to uh

19:05

do what you're taught, play the game and stay

19:08

the course of the game. And that was Chris Boss

19:10

reflecting on his memories of that game, And

19:13

yeah, it was tough. And one thing you notice

19:15

is that it seems like every time the

19:18

American players try to drive, two

19:20

or three Spanish players collapse in the lane and and

19:22

it's just crowded and there's bodies bumping,

19:25

people getting knocked to the ground a lot. Of course, Dwayne

19:27

Wade going to the ground, that was what he was known for, even

19:29

had a commercial like that. So Dwayne Wade's on the ground

19:31

a lot. All that stuff's going on, and

19:34

then Spain goes on a run and they're only down

19:36

by two points and

19:39

then coach k remembers that moment. Specifically,

19:42

the most pressure moment I've ever

19:44

had as a coach was

19:46

the gold medal game with eight minutes to go,

19:48

a little bit over it, when Spain

19:51

had stopped about seven

19:54

of our fast breaks with that stinking

19:57

international intentional foul,

20:00

you know, like when you they just follow

20:02

you at half court and they're

20:04

not held accountable. It's really one

20:06

of the bad rules of all time. So

20:09

we should be winning by

20:12

a lot, but we've we've not gotten fourteen

20:15

sixteen points on that and

20:17

obviously they're good, and

20:21

it feels like all the momentum in the world

20:24

is there and all the that so called

20:26

game pressure, it

20:29

was more than game pressure. It was Olympic Gold

20:31

Medal game pressure. And

20:33

that time out we got together

20:37

and our guys

20:39

started talking, and

20:42

we had kind of built that where they could

20:45

talk. Wasn't just me talking and and

20:48

and I didn't diagram anything

20:50

or we just talked and

20:53

we'll be all right that you know, Kobe, we

20:55

got it. It was around that

20:57

same moment that Sean f Or,

21:00

the team's director of operation, he

21:03

remembers that scene also, and

21:06

this really struck me that years later

21:08

the memory of for him

21:11

of looking at Kobe and Wade is

21:14

just seared into his brain pan and

21:16

here he uh he talks about it. There's

21:18

a time I think it was somewhere

21:21

around the eight minute mark, could have been a little bit less

21:23

than that in the gold medal game and Coach k called the

21:25

time out. It was like a prize fight, and you just

21:27

in between rounds and Kobe

21:30

and and Dwayne sat down

21:33

next to each other on the bench and

21:35

just stared across. You know,

21:37

I think coach talked to him a little bit, but I don't

21:39

even think that they were listening. They were just so

21:42

I've never seen two people so locked

21:44

in in my life. They just went and

21:47

sat down and they were just like, you know,

21:49

like they were just so focused.

21:52

You're listening to Kobe Lebron and of a deem

21:54

team. We'll be back after this. Okay,

22:03

So we don't have time for a play by

22:05

play here, but a couple of things stand out.

22:08

Jake, it's nine,

22:11

US is up by two in the

22:13

gold medal game and Kobe.

22:16

I don't know whether a set play was established,

22:20

but Kobe breaks the U S night would

22:23

they ridiculous? Shouldn't

22:25

have taken it? But I did it? So f you

22:27

pump line drive across

22:29

the lane and assistant coach Jim

22:32

Beheim remembers that moment. I probably

22:34

wasn't a big fan of Kobe maybe,

22:37

but when we were we were

22:39

in trouble and we

22:42

were I don't care

22:44

what the revisionist history is, but

22:46

Spain had us in Beijing. We were up,

22:48

they were coming, they came back. They were

22:51

ten. It's two points and

22:54

Kobe's got the ball. Nobody wanted the ball.

22:56

I'm doing you. He went

22:58

into the lane and he double pumped

23:01

almost and he got it and

23:03

made it. Okay, we've alluded

23:05

to this before, but how many how many times

23:07

have you seen some of that ridiculous

23:10

shot making from Kobe over the years?

23:12

So many? And one that stands

23:15

out to that stands out from the same game, the

23:17

last game of the regular season in two thousand four. They're

23:19

in Portland's and they need

23:21

a three to first cent in and overtime,

23:24

and then he's got a chance to win the game with one and

23:27

he's being guarded by Ruben Patterson and

23:29

there's not a lot of time left. He can't dribble

23:31

go around him. He just gets the ball and somehow wriggles

23:34

his way free and throws in a three

23:36

pointer contested. He made one against d Wayne

23:38

Wade in Miami. Uh going

23:40

across left to right, curls

23:43

his body like it's a parentheses, like

23:45

an opening parentheses, and throws

23:47

up this shot, banks it off the glass.

23:50

And I'll say it again, if there's only

23:52

one second left in a game, I

23:55

could pick Kobe Bryant. If I get my choice

23:57

of anyone I'm taking Kobe the best

23:59

bad shot acre of all time and

24:01

this one that you just described, Jack is certainly

24:04

a bad shot. You're wondering, that's what they get

24:06

out of a time out? Is Kobe driving through

24:08

the lane contested hanging jumper, not

24:10

even really squared up to the basket. But

24:13

guess what it pays to have the best

24:15

bad shot maker of all time. That was a bad

24:17

shot and he made it, that's for sure, you

24:19

know. So, So now we are in stretched

24:23

time and an interesting question

24:26

arises. J This kind of fascinated

24:29

me from the beginning. I could have spent two hours talking

24:31

these guys about that. So you've got the

24:33

number one big shot,

24:36

bad shot dude on the planet, which

24:38

you just describe, but you also

24:40

have in Lebron James,

24:43

the number one multi talented

24:45

distributor in Lebron

24:48

um to make decisions for you. So

24:52

who you gonna call? And we put that question

24:54

to a few of our interview subjects, And

24:57

keep in mind we have to

24:59

say that some times the answered to who

25:02

are you going to give it to Kobe or Lebron is

25:04

Dwayne Wade, and it has been throughout this Olympics.

25:07

But here we framed it as kind of

25:09

do you want to give it to Kobe or

25:11

do you want to give it to Lebron. First, here's

25:14

Jay Kidd. I've always thought Lebron

25:16

is always gonna make the right play because

25:18

he's he can find the open guy.

25:21

He can make the game so easy. Um,

25:24

so I would lean towards to giving him

25:26

the ball, letting him decide who's going to make the

25:28

play. But you can't

25:30

go wrong because Kobe is coming

25:33

off and you you know in

25:35

that game against Spain he made some big

25:38

shots and uh,

25:40

and that's just who he is. And so, um,

25:43

to answer you a question, you give it

25:45

to both of them, because you can't go wrong.

25:48

Um, Lebron again, Lebron

25:50

is gonna find the open guy. He makes the game so

25:53

easy. He's gonna draw attention and get

25:55

two or three guys on him, and it's up

25:57

to the guy making the open shot. And so they

26:00

both in their nature are

26:03

our winners. And uh, and so

26:05

I would say, you can't go wrong because

26:07

you know, if you get the ball to Kobe, he's gonna do

26:10

something magical with it and and find a

26:12

way to win the game. And next

26:14

Mike D'Antoni we all know Kobe,

26:16

he's not He's not gonna be shining away from

26:18

that moment. So I don't think it was a collective right,

26:20

let's get the ball to Kobe. He was like, Hey,

26:22

I'm doing this, and I think

26:25

as it goes on, you know, his

26:27

personality, he just he's coming at

26:29

you, and it just out. You

26:31

know, we always use the phrase the ball finds energy.

26:34

At that moment, his energy is off the chain.

26:36

So I don't think it was

26:39

consciously but subconsciously,

26:41

Yeah, you gotta you gotta kill her over

26:44

here on the left. Let's get the ball right there. I

26:46

don't think anybody had to say anything. Chris Boss's

26:48

answer was a little more direct, Kobe

26:50

and get out of the way. You

26:54

know, I've never, uh just to ask

26:57

my own philosophy, you know, I've never I

27:00

never wants to make the game more complicated,

27:03

um than it needs to be in that situation.

27:05

You know, I just feel that, Um, that's

27:09

what he's always done. That's what Kobe does.

27:11

And you know, I just get

27:13

him in a straight up I self situation and you

27:16

know, ask him where he wants

27:18

it. Count the clock

27:20

down all the way to you know, and get

27:23

the last shot if possible, and let him do his

27:25

think. And finally here's Darren Williams.

27:27

There's no disrespect to Lebron, because of course

27:31

Kobe. Kobe's covered up and there's

27:34

somebody else there is going to Lebron. But

27:36

as far as just getting the bucket, I mean, it's

27:39

I don't Besides, Jordan's hasn't

27:41

been anybody better in the game. Uh,

27:45

you know, that's what he does. It was the moments he loves for. He's

27:47

so comfortable with three hands in his face

27:50

being found. I mean, it

27:53

just it didn't matter with him. I've

27:55

seen it s up close and personal,

27:58

you know, put me out of three playoffs in a row, you

28:01

know, and that that gets back to that bad shot

28:03

maker with one second left. He's just undeterred

28:06

by that. And what was interesting

28:08

though, was that this this was a question that

28:10

was going around at the time. And I'll

28:13

never forget one NBA source that used

28:15

to talk to regularly that year.

28:18

He tells me the answer

28:20

to the Kobe Lebron debate, which was in

28:23

full fury at that time. He

28:26

said, Okay, in crunch time, with the

28:28

gold medal on the line, who

28:30

did they go to Kobe? Lebron, and the answer

28:33

was Kobe. And and it wasn't just that

28:36

that hanging shot in the lane that we just described.

28:39

He comes down and he drives, and then he

28:41

he hits Darren Williams who makes a three pointer, and

28:44

then it's Kobe did Dwight Howard for a

28:46

dunk. So he's just

28:48

in the middle of everything going on

28:50

right there, and he wasn't about to let them

28:53

lose that game, you know. I was

28:55

just thinking about this yet when

28:58

and we're probably gonna have a of

29:00

we we might have the greatest of all time discussion

29:02

somewhere down the road. Yet

29:06

we don't put We

29:09

don't and I never have. We

29:11

do not put Kobe into

29:13

the greatest player of

29:16

all time discussion, do we? He

29:18

he was for a long time. And then it

29:21

was Kobe versus Jordan's for a while,

29:23

in particular at this time. But you know, I don't think

29:25

one and two though, do you do you think they were?

29:28

I'm not sure they were one and two. Ever,

29:30

it was for especially when Kobe was scoring eighty

29:32

one points and doing some things that Jordan never

29:34

had. It was Kobe or Jordan's And then

29:37

Lebron entered the chat so to

29:39

speak. Lebron had to win a championship first.

29:41

You can't be in this discussion until you win a championship.

29:44

And Kobe gets up to five championships,

29:48

you know, right, he's equaled Magic Johnson.

29:50

He's one behind Michael Jordan and Kareem

29:52

Abdul Jabbar. You

29:55

get five. No, I understand, I'm gonna

29:57

I did a By the way, I'm sure you've done this

29:59

in your career. If you want to get into trouble, try

30:02

that all time top fifty or all time

30:04

a hundred lists or something like that. I

30:08

may have to recalibrate a little on Kobe

30:10

the last time I did it. Um, I

30:12

have somebody that if to this day, if he if

30:14

he knew where I lived, Uh,

30:17

he would come after my ass because I just had

30:19

Kobe way too low. But anyway,

30:21

this is another two hour discussion. But with

30:24

three ten left, the

30:26

US is leading by only one oh four.

30:31

Now, everybody on the team remember this moment.

30:34

Kobe hits a jumper and then

30:36

puts his finger to his lips as

30:38

if to quiet the crowd. I

30:41

I'm not I'm not the connoisseur of the

30:43

collector of the first time something

30:46

happened. But the finger to

30:48

the lips is a pretty good taunt,

30:51

about as good as you could do. I guess that's in

30:53

the annals of taunting. J A.

30:55

I guess that's an acceptable one, right. It's certainly

30:58

totally takes some balls. It seemed a little

31:00

weird though, because it wasn't like he was quieting the

31:02

whole crowd. Because if you if

31:04

you watch the crowded, I think

31:07

it's mostly locals, and so they don't necessarily

31:09

have a stake in it, and they're applauding good

31:11

plays on both sides. Um you

31:14

know, there's a USA contingent there.

31:16

There's a lot of dignitaries there who are making no noise.

31:18

But there is one angle when you see uh

31:21

when there shooting free throws at the other and you look back and

31:23

you notice that there's a bunch of

31:25

Spanish fans behind that basket that

31:28

the USA was shooting at in the second half,

31:30

and so I think Kobe was directing it specifically

31:33

to that section and he told

31:35

them, you know, they had their flags and everything, and

31:37

they're they were making noise, and he told

31:39

them to quiet down, you know, time

31:41

to go to sleep. Little cys. The time, right,

31:44

the game is over when it's not, and

31:47

uh that you know, I like the

31:50

quiet be quiet um Kobe.

31:52

Kobe used to kind of do a tumble

31:55

like finger wag and say no, no, no, if you'd hit

31:57

a big shot on the road. Of course, Sam

31:59

Casselle all had the big Balls Dance

32:01

that that was a class se Unfortunately the NBA band

32:04

they also banned the throats last remember,

32:06

yeah, you know you Reggie

32:08

Miller had a great Reggie Miller

32:11

was a throat slash guy, I believe, But

32:13

I I wish there was video for this to you.

32:16

You skip right over the Sam

32:18

cassel Big Balls Dance because

32:20

that that is a moment for mel

32:23

A from NBA history that I will

32:25

never forget. The only strange thing

32:27

about Kobe was, uh,

32:30

there was still three ten left. I

32:32

mean it was you're you're probably right. It was more

32:35

more assigned shut up to that section of

32:37

the crowd rather than the games over because we

32:40

got a waste to go, honestly. But on that

32:42

play, Kobe was also fouled

32:44

by Rudy Fernandez, who, by the way, is

32:47

enough of a hot dog that he just had Rudy

32:49

written on the back of his Jersey like

32:52

he's like Ronaldo or neymar or something

32:54

right exactly one name. So

32:56

he got fouled by Rudy on the play. It was his fifth

32:58

foul. I think in that game game Rudy

33:01

is not as good a player as Palca Soul, but in that game

33:03

he was. He was really good, probably the best player.

33:06

So uh, you know, Kobe

33:08

also made the free throw. So it's a four point

33:10

play, but one final play. And note

33:13

a huge wing jumper by

33:15

Dwayne Wade with two oh three left. Probably

33:18

that's the killer. And what I have

33:21

to note in my current you

33:23

know, continuous sermonizing about

33:25

Lebron as a distributor. I

33:27

watched that play a couple of times. Lebron

33:30

plants himself at the elbow with

33:33

his back to the basket. He is calling

33:36

for he wants the ball somehow, he

33:38

knows he's gonna get it. Definite point

33:40

of distribution. He gets the past,

33:43

he's triple team by you know, he's forcibly

33:46

triple team. Now doesn't

33:48

bother him, finds a wide open Wade,

33:51

who finishes, finishes with the jump

33:53

shot, and who, by the way, finished

33:56

with twenty points. Uh, Kobe

33:58

had twenty although the majority of them were in

34:00

crunch time and uh, that was the

34:03

ball game. Yeah, it was over and then

34:05

it was just a matter of counting down the time and Jack

34:09

the elation on the American

34:11

ball players faces after

34:13

it was over, and the joy that they felt

34:16

they weren't mercenaries. Um,

34:19

it was something that there

34:21

was a lot of pressure on them too, and they finally

34:23

delivered. And you see Kobe

34:26

holding up his USA jersey, uh,

34:29

you know, thumping his chess basically like that. They're

34:31

skipping around, they're all they're jumping

34:33

together at half court. They do

34:35

a USA channel. It's kind of cool, you know that that

34:38

that's their chance one two three USA. It

34:40

was one last moment for for America.

34:43

And Mike Schowski is there.

34:45

It's kind of cool. He's standing on the sidelines

34:48

looking at them and applauding them, just

34:50

applauding their effort. It's a great moment for him.

34:52

But I like the fact that in that moment

34:54

he's locked into them and it's happy for them

34:57

and their accomplishment. And

34:59

he described his thoughts looking out

35:01

at that scene. What a joyous

35:04

celebration afterwards, you

35:07

know, the Uh, it's

35:09

a moment in time that you

35:11

know, some of the greatest players in the history of our

35:13

game could share together. You're

35:16

listening to Kobe, Lebron and Redeemed

35:18

Team Jay and I will be back in a minute. Let's

35:26

remember Jay that this two thousand and eight win

35:29

was the first of three in

35:31

a row, a trifecta for the Showsky

35:33

I guess we could call the Showski administration,

35:37

which in all three of those Olympics included

35:39

Lebron, d Wade, and Carmelo,

35:42

and assistant coach Jim Beheim puts,

35:44

that's what this wind in Beijing in

35:47

historical perspective, particularly

35:50

remembering the World Championship

35:52

loss to Greece in two thousand

35:55

six and the two thousand four Olympics.

35:57

Here's bee Hund. I mean there was a lot

36:00

where I winning the Olympics.

36:02

I mean if we lost to Spain,

36:04

I don't even know if we'd have been back, we

36:07

might have been done for sure. If

36:09

we lost to Greece and then

36:11

lost the next year to Spain in the Olympics

36:15

and they we probably would have been all done. So

36:18

Ja, that puts a rap on the two thousand

36:20

and eight Olympics. Uh, We're

36:22

gonna be back for a bonus episode or two. But

36:24

I just have one final thought, and I know you have one

36:26

too. It's my particular sermon

36:29

on to repeat it on Lebron moving

36:32

up to two thousand twelve in London,

36:34

which we're not going to talk about, but I'm just gonna bring this

36:36

to your attention. Lebron has

36:38

now won a championship,

36:41

uh, coming off a championship season. But

36:43

on that team, here's Lebron

36:45

again. Kevin Durant average as

36:48

he should, great score, probably

36:50

without injuries, may have finished the greatest

36:52

score ever. He averaged nineteen

36:54

point five points per game. Carmelo

36:56

Anthony, who by then you would think

36:58

had been kind of reduced to a little bit of a secondary

37:01

role, is second with sixteen

37:03

point three. Lebron James

37:07

the champion, probably not

37:09

probably definitely the best player in

37:11

the game at that time. Thirteen point

37:14

three points per game, nine shots

37:16

per game is all. He took six

37:19

shooting, he got five point six

37:21

rebounds, he got five point

37:24

eight assists. That's

37:26

just the kind of player that

37:28

Lebron James is was,

37:31

and is you get him on your team, you're

37:34

gonna be a better team because he's

37:36

gonna do everything he can to

37:38

be that team player. And that's what I

37:41

take away from, uh, from these

37:43

Olympic Games. You looking back

37:45

on that moment when they received

37:48

their gold medals and the Nason

37:50

anthem, and I was struck by

37:52

how much less complicated

37:54

the time that was. In two thousand and eight. Were

37:56

a few years away from Trayvon

37:59

Martin and Mod

38:01

Aubrey and of course George Floyd and

38:03

and all these things that have have changed

38:06

the discussion and forced people to think

38:08

about America. We're

38:10

eight years away from Colin Kaepernick kneeling during

38:12

the anthem and protesting police

38:14

brutality and not being able

38:16

to stand at attention for the

38:19

flag and the anthem of a country that continuously

38:23

kills black men with with no consequences

38:25

for for for those who abuse

38:27

or kill them. And those

38:30

things all existed in two thousand and eight, but they

38:32

weren't at the forefront of the discussion. It

38:34

was a much more optimistic time. Think about two thousand

38:37

and eight. That's the year that America goes

38:39

on to elect its first black president. And

38:41

so this sort of unqualified

38:44

patriotism by all the players

38:46

on the team, all of whom were African American,

38:49

and the they're all holding

38:51

their hands over their hearts, and Kobe

38:54

in particular is singing along to the national

38:56

anthem, and they

38:59

had put pay traatism and representing

39:01

the country at the center of that team, and here

39:03

it was and they were reveling in it at

39:05

this moment, and you could see the pride

39:07

that they had in being American, and

39:09

at that point in time, it

39:12

just wasn't this this cognitive

39:14

dissonance, this duality, and

39:17

it was it just seemed

39:19

a purer time. We don't think of the two thousand

39:21

and eight is being purer, but compared to today, a

39:23

moment like that, you could just see them

39:26

feel patriotic and that was cool. And Kobe

39:29

in particular, seeing him that

39:31

happy and that giddy. And he'd

39:34

been an NBA champion before, but

39:37

now he was an Olympic champion, a gold

39:39

medalist, uh, something that he

39:41

hadn't had the opportunity to do before, and now

39:43

he's one for one. He finally gets his

39:45

chance. We've gone over some of the reasons why

39:48

he couldn't or didn't participate in the

39:50

past, but he gets his chance and now he

39:52

has a gold medal around his neck and he's giddy. He

39:54

keeps kissing the gold medal. He can't stop smiling,

39:57

He's pumping his fist, and it

40:00

was cool for me to see that moment for him. I

40:02

think of some of the moments at the very very

40:04

top of his career. I think of him leaping

40:07

in the Shack's arms after they win their

40:09

first championship together in two thousands. I

40:11

think of this moment when he realizes he's

40:13

about to close in on his first championship

40:16

without check in two thousand nine,

40:18

and there's a time out. He's on his way back to the bench and

40:20

he just bends over like a ski jumper, and he's just

40:22

pumping his face like he can feel the moment's already here,

40:24

almost here, and now this

40:27

time, after everything he's

40:29

been through and he's

40:31

back on top. He is on top

40:34

of the world. And he

40:36

has shared this experience Jack,

40:38

and we've chronicled how he sort

40:40

of got to know his teammates and became

40:43

a part of the team and bonded with them. And

40:46

I just want to get back to this Carmelo Anthony sound

40:48

that we had. We played some of it for

40:50

you in the very first episode, and

40:53

we're gonna play it in its entirety

40:55

or more full version of it now and

40:57

and Carmelo talking about how they were a

41:00

to bond with Kobe, and he says that

41:02

was his number one takeaway from

41:04

that Olympic experience. See,

41:07

the one thing I would say, like

41:09

the vivid memories is just the

41:11

way that especially speaking on keeping it on Kobe,

41:13

like the way that he like

41:18

bought himself to become so comfortable

41:21

with us, you

41:24

know, and the players on the team and you

41:26

know, really understanding like okay, like this

41:28

is the band of brothers here, like you know in the Lakers,

41:31

he was, he was who he was

41:33

right he would you know, he he come in early

41:35

in the morning, he come in late at night, and he's

41:37

working and he's doing his thing, and he's out when people

41:40

coming there and there it was you know, he never let

41:42

nobody in there with him like he was. You know, he was

41:44

very you know, secretive in

41:46

stand office with us,

41:49

Like you saw him like

41:52

slowly letting his guard down, even

41:54

on the buses, you know, even

41:57

going to the Olympic village and going

41:59

to others sporting in these bands, like you saw

42:01

the guard coming

42:03

coming down. You saw those bricks falling, and

42:07

he was fully immersed in and

42:10

what we was doing and being

42:12

there with us, and that was something that

42:15

was like, Okay, he finally

42:17

like, okay, we got the last

42:19

brick down, like we you know, he the

42:22

wall is down, Like it's down, y'all. Damn

42:24

we did a good job. Like it was. You almost

42:27

felt like a sense of victory seeing

42:29

him laugh the way that he was laughing

42:31

and you know, talking

42:34

and communicating and stories, and just

42:37

like you, we felt that. I

42:39

think we gave him another egge and

42:41

we gave him another level of sharpness

42:44

because he knew like how sharp

42:47

we were on that team, you know, from

42:50

us getting up early in the morning and training and working

42:52

out and talking and can you watching film and and

42:55

you know, having fun too. But he saw

42:57

the sharpness that we had on that team

42:59

everybody and and what what I used

43:01

to say was iron sharpens iron.

43:04

And he understood that. He understands

43:06

that language, and he also understands

43:09

something that we submit him. We always say, lions

43:11

don't hang with others, don't hang with nobody other

43:13

than lions, right, so he

43:16

he when you when you put it that way

43:18

to him, and you messed with the you

43:20

know, the the cerebral part of it. He

43:23

locks in, and I think that's what that's

43:25

what he was dealing with, Like he knew like he was

43:27

being sharpened by us and we was being sharpened

43:29

by him. We understood that. And

43:31

I think after oh eight, even

43:34

the next year when we played those guys in the Western Conference

43:36

finals, you just saw the

43:38

sharpness, like you saw the mentality, the

43:41

mentality like, oh,

43:44

I was missing this gold medal, Like this is what I

43:46

was missing. I was you know, I was three p I three ted,

43:48

I won, but I never had

43:51

this. Now I can say I have a gold

43:54

medals. And I

43:56

think that's that's also why he approached

43:58

it the way that he approached because that's what he was

44:00

missing. All right. So that's

44:02

a wrap for Kobe Lebron

44:04

and the redeem Team, the story of the two thousand

44:07

and eight Gold Medal winners. There's a lot we

44:10

talked about the organization of the team by

44:12

Godfather, Jerry Colangelo, Mike

44:14

Shasky, bringing them all together, the personalities

44:17

on this team, and I certainly

44:19

think about Kobe myself, and I just think about

44:21

the uh, the defiant Kobe

44:23

that the story I told you about about going to do

44:26

a story on him, about the scoring

44:28

race and him telling me, Oh, it's not a race.

44:30

What are you talking about? Man? He

44:33

goes for forty eight and fifty

44:35

on that weekend and then just stares

44:38

at me with this kind of smiling

44:40

contempt as he walks off the floor.

44:42

And I'm sitting at the at the

44:45

press box. So it's been

44:47

great going through this with you. We hope to have a

44:49

couple of bonus episodes. And uh, I'm

44:52

Jack McCallum signing off. And Jack

44:55

has been great doing this with you, and I

44:57

always love hearing your stories, and

44:59

you're expertise on the history

45:01

of basketball, and it's

45:03

been fun to revisit

45:06

this this time and this somewhat overlooked

45:08

team, and hopefully people have a better understanding

45:10

of them. I certainly do, and we certainly

45:12

want to thank all of those who took time

45:14

to share their memories of this experience with us.

45:17

It's been a pleasure for us to pass that along

45:19

to you. Thanks for listening. The

45:36

Dream Team Tapes, Season two, Kobe

45:39

Lebron and the Redeem Team is a production

45:42

of Diversion podcasts in

45:44

association with I Heart Radio. For

45:47

more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit

45:49

the i Heart Radio app, Apple

45:51

Podcasts or wherever you get

45:54

your podcast. This

45:56

season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum

45:59

and j A. The executive

46:01

producer Scott Waxman and Mark Francis

46:03

for Diversion Podcast and Shawn's

46:05

High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our

46:08

editorial director is John Tuttle, Supervising

46:11

producer Brian Murphy, legal

46:13

producer Freddie Overstegen, Editing,

46:16

mixing and sound designed by Mark Frances.

46:19

Verna Fields is our technical producer,

46:22

and our director of Marketing and business

46:24

Development is Jacob Bronstein Diversion

46:34

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