0:01

The Dream Team Tapes Season two.

0:04

Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team

0:06

is a production of Diversion Podcasts

0:09

in association with I Heart Radio

0:21

Diversion Podcasts. The

0:25

players selected for the honor of representing

0:28

the United States in the two thousand and eight

0:30

Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe

0:34

Bryant. We

0:36

look forward to this for a while, you know, to be in this

0:38

position now here we don't represent our country

0:40

Venice, especially special

0:44

Lebron James. We

0:47

look for an opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being

0:49

the best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team

0:51

is because it is right. We're

0:53

the best team in the world. We're the best team in

0:55

the world. Where we put basketball America,

0:57

basketball wheels beat. Which is

0:59

that time? All, Hello

1:20

and welcome to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team.

1:22

When at last we reached the Chinese capital

1:24

city of Beijing, one of the oldest

1:27

cities in the world, with a history

1:29

that dates back at least three thousand years

1:31

and was once known still

1:33

known in some quarters as pe King. But

1:36

we are not here co host j A Dande

1:39

to speak of a delicious crispy duck

1:41

entree. We are here to speak of

1:43

the two thousand and eight team that

1:46

entered the Olympic Games as well.

1:48

I suppose the favorite, but

1:50

not the overwhelming favorite, So how's that

1:52

possible? And just give a

1:54

brief update before we talk about

1:56

the Olympics on how things were

1:59

looking as they headed in the world

2:01

had clearly clawed up to the United States

2:03

and there were several US

2:05

losses that we've chronicled here. So

2:08

this was a stronger U S team certainly,

2:10

but some people are calling this the

2:12

strongest Olympic field that we've ever seen, the

2:15

deepest Olympic field that we've ever seen.

2:17

And Spain certainly

2:20

was deep yed Palkasov Rudy

2:22

Fernandez. It was a caldron Argentina

2:26

led by Manucan Nobli Andres

2:28

Noconi. So those

2:30

are the two main threats. Lithuania

2:34

still an old threat from

2:36

back in the days, Russia

2:39

still couldn't completely be counted out,

2:41

and China was playing at home. So

2:44

even though they didn't have a tremendous

2:46

amount of NBA talent, they had had a couple

2:48

of players, most ob Yao Ming play

2:50

in the NBA in recent years, and

2:53

they had a tremendous home

2:55

court advantage. So those

2:57

are all the obstacles that in

2:59

the path the team USA. They

3:01

were still the wonderful favorite. You would have

3:03

had a bet four hundred dollars to win one

3:05

hundred dollars, but

3:08

it wasn't a dominant and

3:10

and there was some good value beds out there that

3:12

we're worth a shot. I don't think he wanted to bet against

3:15

the Dream team. You had a chance

3:17

to make some money betting against the redeem

3:19

team. This is the pre Fandel's

3:22

uh you know, bet anyone line. It

3:24

sounds like you know something about this stuff.

3:26

Man, I'm not a gambler, but

3:30

I know just enough to know about

3:32

that. It's funny. Chris Sheridan was covering

3:35

international basketball for ESPN and

3:37

and he had somewhat of a gambling disposition,

3:39

we could say. So. So when you go back

3:41

and you read his stuff previewing

3:44

those Olympics, you're gonna see a touch

3:46

of that, more than a touch. I just remember that movie

3:48

that I might have been called The Gambler. James Cohn

3:51

is in his bathtub in the beginning

3:53

of the movie and he bets. I think he bet

3:55

on the Lakers and they lost

3:57

like by a basket at the buzzer. He almost throws

3:59

the radio into the bathtub to electric

4:01

cute himself. You know, since then I was not

4:04

going to get it on gambling. And the thing

4:06

is, Jack on this team, you had the

4:08

guys with the memory of losing,

4:10

which wasn't something that we've seen before

4:13

if you think about it, Uh, you didn't have

4:15

that predisposition. Maybe had

4:17

it with with David Robinson who was on the Olympic

4:21

team and then he was on the Dream Team in the team,

4:23

but you had more guys including

4:26

Lebron and Dwayne Wade and Carmelo

4:28

Anthony who had been on that two thousand four

4:31

team, and then you had guys like Chris

4:33

Bosh who his last experience

4:36

in a team you say uniform was losing

4:38

to Greece in the semifinals in two thousand and six,

4:40

and he didn't play in two thousand seven he was injured.

4:43

So the last time he really played in international

4:45

competition he had that

4:48

loss and it stuck with him for two years. And

4:50

he told us how that that changed

4:53

his mindset heading into these games.

4:55

And I think when you when you're humbled by losing,

4:57

it kind of helps it out a little bit.

4:59

You know, everybody is much more willing I

5:02

think, Um, you know, I forgot the saying.

5:04

But yeah, once you're successful, it's it's

5:07

it becomes different. But at that time, you

5:10

know, we were in a position of of sacrifice.

5:12

We had to do more sacrifice

5:14

than what was done before in order to win because

5:16

we knew the world is better at basketball. We

5:19

can't just put a team together once for

5:22

ten days and just go out and whoop ass.

5:24

And you know, we've got to

5:26

play some damn defense, you know. So it

5:29

was always a spirited effort from everybody

5:31

to make sure um

5:33

that they were bringing what they needed to bring. Regardless.

5:36

Now tonight's episode eight, we're calling

5:38

for reasons that will become clear. No excuses

5:42

and j A, So much happens in this episode.

5:44

There are no excuses for it not being

5:46

good. We have a memorable tour

5:48

that the team took in New York City. Um,

5:51

we have a first class Phil Jackson invitation.

5:54

Unfortunately we won't be able to see it, but we can

5:56

hear about it. A party in Macau

5:58

when one of the teams, Superstar Ours gets left

6:00

behind and then they had to decide

6:03

whether to return for him or not if

6:05

a mass of Chinese welcome for Kobe

6:07

Bryant, a game one of the Olympics

6:09

that drew a billion eyes

6:12

literally and a memorable opening

6:14

jump shot by uh someone

6:17

we're gonna talk about, as well as an

6:19

in game nap by a famous

6:21

American. But first, j A set up

6:24

the meeting that sets up the title no

6:26

excuses. Well, we talked a lot about

6:28

meetings in this because there's some dramatic

6:31

moments in meetings, and it

6:33

would be really easy to just say that it

6:35

all happened the first time they ever got together,

6:37

and they made it sound like that at

6:40

times, like there was this one super duper

6:42

meeting and all these things got said, and it really

6:44

set the tone for how this redeemed

6:46

team story was gonna play out. But

6:49

Sean Ford and Craig Miller from

6:51

USA Basketball were both nice enough to break

6:53

down what happened when and which meeting

6:56

some of these things took place. So

6:58

in two thousand and eight, they're

7:01

opening meeting for what's going to be the

7:03

run through the Olympics. They

7:06

they had their usual get together and this time it

7:08

was Lebron James who spoke

7:10

out and Mike Shazowski told

7:12

us about that. The last guy was Lebron,

7:15

and he talked, he was eloquent, he

7:17

said no excuses, and that became our first

7:19

standard and they really kind

7:22

of embraced that. And it was our guy,

7:24

Craig Miller, the longtime PR

7:26

director for USA Basketball, who

7:29

filled us in really on what Lebron

7:31

had to say. And I remember Lebron saying

7:35

there's no excuses, and

7:37

and then he elaborated. He said, you

7:39

know, in the NBA, I

7:41

can kind of write off not winning an NBA championship

7:43

by saying, I wish I had Kobe, I

7:45

wish I had Chris Paul is my point guard. I wish I

7:47

had Carmelo out there. I wish

7:50

I had d Wade running with me because we're

7:52

all here, we're all together because

7:55

we've got no excuses now, right, there's no there's

7:57

no town excuse. There's no not working

7:59

hard if there's no And to

8:01

me, that was that was a really strong

8:04

openings statement by

8:06

Lebron to the team. You know, it's funny,

8:08

Jay help people everybody we talked

8:10

to remember those meetings and

8:13

when teams are together for a long

8:16

time, like over the season meetings, become

8:18

a problem. Chuck Daily used to have this great

8:20

soliloquy he would go on. I asked him one time

8:23

why once in a while during a time out, Chuck

8:25

would just sit there with his arms folded, and

8:27

Chuck went, well, there's too

8:29

many meetings. Time out. That's a meeting, half

8:31

time, that's a meeting. After the game, that's

8:33

a meeting. Next day at practice, that's a meeting.

8:36

Pregame meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting.

8:38

That's all we did. You get sick of them.

8:41

But when these teams are together for a

8:43

short amount of time and

8:45

they have a great collection of players together. I

8:47

remember it was the same thing with the Dream Team,

8:49

um that they the meetings do not become

8:52

just another thing. They become sort of a real

8:54

important part of what happened. Now,

8:56

these guys were a really almost

9:00

perfect mixture of being

9:02

a young and an old team. You had the young bucks

9:04

Lebron d Wade, Chris Bosh,

9:07

Carmelo. Then you had the grizzled

9:09

veteran Jay Kidd. I

9:11

don't know what you call Kobe in the apex

9:14

of his career, maybe or just yeah,

9:16

he's he's twenty eight years old and into

9:18

that summer. So he's right in the heart of his career and

9:20

he just he's he's coming off the m v P,

9:23

his first and only m v P award. Yeah, so

9:25

you had a really great mixture, guys. But

9:28

the important thing is what we're gonna talk about

9:30

is they were young enough and enthusiastic

9:33

enough that you'd get him to do things. You

9:35

know, And I don't think you if you would

9:37

have said to Michael Jordan's before the ninety

9:39

two Dream Team crusade to Barcelona, you

9:41

know, Mike, we're gonna take a little goodwill

9:44

tour of the United States.

9:46

You know, we want you to pack a bunch of

9:48

clothes and we're, uh, we're

9:50

gonna take off and promote the team. And no, that

9:52

was not gonna happen. But I know

9:54

you remember this sort of pre

9:58

Olympic tour that the the

10:00

Redeemed Team did and it produced some pretty pretty

10:02

cool moments. Yeah, they went to New York and

10:04

the reason it stands out is they

10:07

packed so much into that trip. There. They

10:09

were going on the morning shows like Good Morning

10:11

America. They were showing up at Rucker

10:14

Park and and doing stuff

10:16

on the playgrounds with the kids. They

10:19

were all over the place. Uh. They even

10:22

took a boat trip out through uh,

10:24

you know, Harbor with Statue of Liberty

10:26

in the background. All this stuff was going

10:29

on. And one of the

10:31

moments that that was captured on the mini

10:33

cameras that were around to chronicle this whole thing

10:36

was this this interplay

10:38

between Kobe and Lebron, And

10:41

to me, it was really indicative of how

10:43

Lebron was able to break through the

10:46

I wouldn't even call a facade Jack the fortress,

10:49

this impenetrable fortress that Kobe

10:52

and Kobe. That was Kobe.

10:55

And so there's this

10:57

this interplay and it's joking around and

11:01

in it Lebron actually has the audacity

11:04

to imitate Kobe Bryant

11:06

the way he wore his his warmups

11:08

and and everything else and just the way

11:10

he operated. And Mike Sizevsky

11:13

told us about it. It really stuck out in his mind and he's

11:15

got fond memories of that. Both those guys

11:17

have great, a great sense of

11:19

humor, you know, like,

11:22

uh, you know, Lebron

11:25

really likes to joke a lot and

11:27

goof around a lot. And

11:29

I can remember we're doing a photo

11:32

shoot. We did all these iconic things

11:34

with each team so that they would get a field.

11:36

So we're on a boat, a ferry

11:39

boat in New York, going

11:41

out to the statue a Liberty where we're going to use

11:44

that as a backdrop. And there

11:47

Lebron. We're in our warm ups. Then

11:49

they also had suits, and Lebron

11:52

put his warm up pants up

11:54

to his chest and

11:57

his pants were high then and he

11:59

was in Kobe and then

12:01

he filled with Kobe's coach

12:05

and uh, say triangle

12:07

triangle. He put up one

12:09

finger, Yeah, waiting a game.

12:11

You know that. That was Felst triangle.

12:15

And uh, Kobe's

12:17

rolling around on the floor. And

12:21

so they used that sense of humor

12:25

a lot. So Kobe's

12:27

more serious than yet he's he's cracking

12:29

up at Lebron. Lebron was definitely the

12:32

jokester. Some people thought Lebron didn't

12:34

take things quite seriously enough. We've seen

12:36

obviously he's serious enough to be a

12:38

four time NBA champion. Uh,

12:40

but at this point, I think it was something

12:43

that Kobe needed, Uh, you know, somebody who

12:45

he respected enough to allow him

12:47

to pope fund at him and uh,

12:50

someone who was playful enough to bring out that

12:53

playful side of Kobe. Shack was a big, playful

12:55

guy. But Kobe at that time

12:57

was trying to establish himself when he first came into

13:00

League and was a little bit resentful

13:02

of the big brother label that had

13:04

tried to be a fixation act. Kobe was tired

13:06

of being the little brother. He grew up with two older

13:08

sisters. He wanted to be his own man. But

13:11

now he and Lebron were there somewhat

13:13

as peers, and for whatever

13:16

reason, and I think for that reason, the

13:18

relationship worked better. You know, we don't say

13:20

enough about this, but you

13:22

know, Lebron is really

13:25

good at that stuff. Like Lebron's

13:27

an actor. I mean, you you know, he

13:29

cast in that like, Okay, he's not playing Hamlet

13:32

next to Amy Schumer, but he's damned

13:34

good in that movie. And we always looked

13:36

at Michael Jordan's

13:38

as the ultimate, you know, crossover guy

13:41

kind of, but Michael really

13:43

was sort of wooden and I'm

13:46

probably gonna get in trouble with that, but you know, he had

13:48

he had a certain range for

13:50

for to to act interact with Spike and

13:53

you know, hayneses underwear. Lebron

13:56

is like, you know, he's an old

13:58

guy in a barber shop. I mean,

14:00

he he is a true actor

14:03

and I would have I wish I could have. I would have

14:05

paid some money to watch his uh invitation

14:07

of Phil Jackson. That would have been pretty cool. Well,

14:09

it was mostly Kobe. He did a little bit of Phil calling

14:11

in the plays from the side, but the fact

14:13

that he was able to imitate Kobe to Kobe's

14:16

face is not something that

14:19

many people could have gotten away with. Uh.

14:21

You know, that wasn't all they were doing. That. The reason they

14:23

were on the boat in the first place

14:26

was Jerry Colangelo

14:29

wanted to get the shot,

14:32

a shot with the members of the Deemed

14:34

Team in their Team USA outfits

14:37

with the Statue of Liberty in the

14:39

background, And so Craig

14:42

Miller described for as how they pulled

14:44

that photo off. We have a

14:46

really cool iconic photo of

14:48

the team with the Statue

14:50

of Liberty in the background around the front of the boat

14:52

and they turned the boat and um, it's

14:54

an amazing photo. Was a beautiful blue day.

14:57

It was done before we started training

14:59

camp. Um, we carved

15:01

out like I think two or three days in New York

15:03

where we did all these things, and uh,

15:06

I think it really just set the tone for the

15:09

bonding, the importance

15:12

of representing your country, and

15:14

then the committment that was

15:16

going to be needed by all the players.

15:18

Nobody, nobody skipped the event, nobody

15:21

lepped out of the media. Um. Everybody

15:23

did what was asked a woman and it was

15:25

a huge, huge success, Jack.

15:28

That doesn't mean that everyone was

15:30

all gung ho about this

15:33

and USA ra RA, And

15:36

if you think about it, Ski

15:39

and Jerry Colangelo were very

15:41

big on Statue Liberty and the entry

15:43

point in Ellis Island and all time

15:45

because that's probably the way that their

15:47

answers came to the country. If

15:49

you think about the makeup of the players

15:52

on the team, I'm guessing

15:54

their origin story in

15:56

their arrival in the United States

16:00

isn't quite the old Las Island

16:02

saga, if you if you know what I mean, Jack,

16:04

So not at all. They

16:06

didn't They didn't necessarily have the

16:09

same sentiment and

16:11

and the motions that had seen the statue

16:13

and this eagerness to have their picture taken in front

16:15

of the Statue of Liberty, and but

16:17

they went along with it, and I think they got

16:20

what was going on, and I think they understood that

16:22

this was part of what being on this team

16:24

meant, and Jason Kidd described to us

16:27

his memories of that day on the boat and the stature

16:29

of Liberty. Yes, Um,

16:32

when you look at the photo on

16:35

the boat, um statue of Liberty,

16:38

right, Like, I don't think there was a lot of

16:40

people excited about going on the boat and

16:42

try and take a picture and have to you know,

16:44

be perfect and everybody be still.

16:47

But again I think you

16:49

just nailed it. Like they were young enough like,

16:51

hey, guys, let's just get on our place. So

16:53

as sooner we do this as soon as the boat

16:55

can head in, right, and they get it

16:58

and so but they were like, why

17:00

are we you know, taking up a picture on

17:02

the boat, you know, like

17:04

like so you know,

17:07

there was probably a look, you know, complaining.

17:09

But at the end of the day, as long as

17:11

you told them we can get to the finish line, as

17:13

sooner you do it, the sooner

17:16

we're going back in. So um

17:19

that's how that worked. And I remember being on that

17:21

boat because they weren't very happy about

17:23

the boat picture, but it all worked out.

17:25

Yeah. I kind of came more from because of

17:27

age and the color

17:30

of my skin, I can and came more from the Colangelo

17:33

Mike Shaski. Uh, my my

17:35

wife's grandmother landed at Ellis

17:37

Island. Her plaque from Italy,

17:39

you know, is up there, and it meant something to me. And I

17:41

took that music cruise one time.

17:44

I remember my wife and I walking through, uh,

17:46

towards the harbor boat with a

17:49

cooler and people shouting tourists,

17:52

tourists, you know. But we got

17:55

on the boat and got that shot of the Statue

17:57

of Liberty behind us, and we both went,

17:59

you know, all right, it was embarrassing walking up there,

18:01

but uh, but this is pretty cool. You're

18:05

listening to Kobe Lebron and the redeem

18:07

Team. Jay and I will be back in a minute,

18:21

you know, before we go any further, Jay, these these

18:24

things. He's even going out to dinner

18:26

with a team, a famous

18:29

team. When you have Kobe

18:31

Lebron, you know, it's not a simple

18:33

thing. And one guy, before we go any

18:36

further, I think we should mention and he's kind of

18:38

been with us on this tour

18:40

all the way through. And that's Sean Ford, now

18:43

called the director of Basketball Operations,

18:45

and uh, every I think just

18:48

about every person mentioned Sean

18:50

Ford, through whom most of the

18:52

arrangements were made and uh, here's

18:54

Mike Saski talking about Sean

18:56

Ford, the guy who never

18:59

get the at A for being

19:01

like m v P of Shawn Ford. Shaun

19:04

Ford and I lived with each

19:06

other, so to speak. He would know

19:09

everything. These guys we're

19:11

planning to do and

19:14

we gotta gotta take care of this this and

19:17

there are a lot of moving parts. Once

19:19

they're off the court, So the

19:21

tour is over, they come back to Las

19:24

Vegas. They demolished

19:26

Canada in one exhibition game,

19:29

and then they packed their bags for two games in

19:31

Macau, two games in Shanghai

19:33

before reaching the Olympics. Well,

19:36

one of the things that struck me ja was these

19:38

just weren't any teams they were playing. I was

19:40

a little surprised. I don't remember these games,

19:43

to be honest, But they played Turkey,

19:45

Lithuania, Russia, and Australia.

19:47

They won all of the games. First of

19:49

all, you're surprised they played that kind of exhibition

19:52

schedule or is that sort of what you do? I mean, a dream

19:54

team didn't play any

19:57

exhibitions, you know, they just went to the Olympics.

19:59

Yeah, they just they did the Turn of the America's

20:02

and they won those handily. I mean I think they

20:04

were prep Remember they played that college

20:06

Select team. They had guys like Penny

20:08

Hardaway, grand Hill, and Chris Webber. And

20:11

remember that was the only team that beat the

20:13

Dream Team in the scrimmage in right,

20:16

that was like the second or third day of practice,

20:18

just kind of get it ready. But you

20:21

know, the idea playing these good A teams,

20:23

I don't know. It just surprised me a little bit. But anyway,

20:26

not everything went uh

20:29

smoothly, including on the

20:31

social front. Yeah, so they're still

20:33

bonding, still hanging out. And one

20:35

of the reasons I think they went to matt Macau

20:38

is that it's the Las Vegas of China,

20:40

basically, right, A lot of the same hotel properties

20:43

that you see in Vegas are there in Macau,

20:45

and so it was a good socializing opportunity

20:48

for some of the guys in this group is coming together

20:51

and believe it or not, there even inviting

20:53

Kobe Bryant. Now, Jack, I was trying to think

20:56

in Kobe's Laker years, I

20:58

do on'tly remember him going out and

21:01

seeing him out at a post championship

21:03

party and that two thousand, two thousand to three

21:06

run Shack had a party

21:08

one year and and Kobe showed up at that,

21:10

but noticeably, Kobe was back

21:12

in the VIP area and Shack was out

21:14

in the main area. And I'm not even sure

21:16

how much they interacted throughout the night. I

21:18

was going back and forth, but Kobe stayed

21:20

back in there and Shack stayed out in the main area. But

21:23

guys like Rick Fox and Derek Fisher

21:25

would have parties and you wouldn't see Kobe

21:27

at those. I don't recall seeing him

21:30

at some of the hotel parties on the road when

21:32

they were they won the championship in Philly,

21:35

or they won the championship in New Jersey,

21:38

and their partying back at the hotels, you wouldn't

21:41

see Kobe there. Uh. I didn't

21:43

see Kobe at the party the Lakers had had at the Playboy

21:45

Mansion when they won in two thousand and

21:48

So he's not someone you see out and about

21:50

partying at that stage in his career.

21:52

One thing we're learning here, by the way, is you went to a hell

21:54

of a lot more parties than I did. By the way,

21:57

that was life come from the Lakers, Jack. I mean, I

22:00

see that's the problem. That's the one drawback sports illustrated.

22:02

Right that the series ends, the finals

22:05

are over, and you gotta be up in your room all night writing

22:07

man. I had a ten thirty Pacific time deadline,

22:09

and once that thing was in, it was time

22:12

to go hang out. But

22:14

by this time, this age, and with this

22:16

group most significantly, I think Kobe

22:19

is becoming somewhat of a socialite, and

22:22

that leads to this little misadventure

22:24

that they have when they're going out for a night on the town

22:26

of Maccau. You know, we were going, um,

22:28

leaving the hotel to go to

22:30

a party, and uh

22:33

we were waiting, and unfortunately

22:35

he wasn't on time, so we left and

22:39

and Lebron was like, hey, you said, you know,

22:41

we be on time. If you're

22:43

not all the time, we leave. So we

22:46

we left, and uh we

22:48

got a call that we had to turn around

22:50

and go kick him up. Um.

22:52

Lebron wasn't too happy about that. Where

22:54

was it that, Uh, this was in Macau

22:58

and so um we were going

23:00

from the Hotel Macau to the win um

23:03

to see the win and so when we

23:06

left, um,

23:08

alright, Lebron was like, you said

23:10

on time, we gotta go. So we left

23:12

and mid way through the drive, we get

23:14

a call that we have to turn around and go get

23:17

Kobe, and Lebron was not

23:20

happy about it, but um

23:22

to Lebron's you know, give Lebron

23:24

credit. We did turn around and

23:26

we went back to pick up Kobe, and we let

23:28

Kobe know that you know that

23:31

you can't you have to be on time or

23:33

we're leaving. But we can't leave any man behind.

23:35

So we came back to get you this one time. And

23:37

that was Jason Kidd, who in

23:39

a minute or two is going to tell us about

23:42

another sort of Kobe thing that happened

23:44

when they moved on to Shanghai. But and

23:47

it's about shot selection and the shots

23:49

that Kobe took before we do that. Ja, It's always

23:52

interesting to me shot

23:55

selection for a superstar

23:57

player, for a score, a dry

24:00

dead guy that you're gonna ride

24:02

his points to the championship

24:04

or wherever it's gonna take you. Shot

24:07

selection something you can always talk about.

24:09

But to me, it's not that

24:11

important. I mean, people used to bitch about some

24:14

of the shots Kobe took. Well, let me tell

24:16

you something, Larry Bird. You know, Mr

24:18

Fundamental took some of the for

24:21

one of a better word shittiest shots you

24:24

could ever take Jordan's

24:26

did. It's part of kind of the deal,

24:29

isn't it with being a scorer, like this

24:31

is what this is what you do?

24:33

You know once in a while, somewhat Kobe

24:35

took it to an extreme and Kobe

24:37

seemed to relish in the degree of

24:40

difficulty. Uh. That did

24:42

lead to this maybe someone dubious

24:44

title, but I think he was the best bad

24:46

shot maker of all time, and

24:48

that he could get himself in a position where

24:50

it was a bad shot, but he could make it, and he was

24:53

comfortable taking and making those

24:55

shots. It's one of the reasons I always

24:57

say, if I had a second left

25:00

for the last shot, I'm going to Kobe. If I've got

25:02

eight seconds and there's enough time to create

25:04

a good shot, then I'm putting the

25:06

ball in Michael Jordan's hands. If I've only got

25:08

a second or a few fractions

25:10

of a second left to take a shot and that

25:12

means I can't get a good shot, I'm going to Kobe

25:15

Bryant, who is the best bad shot maker of

25:17

all time. I ran that by Phil Jackson

25:19

one time, who coach both Michael and Kobe,

25:22

and he agreed with me. So, so that's

25:24

that's one notion. Jack. Another thing with this is

25:26

that the fact that these players

25:29

and his coaching staff had to encounter that and

25:31

had to figure out a way to get Kobe to

25:33

take less of those and to trust his teammates a little

25:35

more. In some ways, the entire

25:38

Kobe experience that we heard Phil

25:41

Jackson describe in in the second

25:43

episode of this podcast series, it

25:45

was condensed into these

25:48

couple of summers with the Olympic

25:50

basketball team, and so they experienced

25:53

the whole run of Kobe and and all the

25:55

pluses and the minuses that come with Kobe having

25:57

on your team, the experience in a very short

25:59

period of time. But I'd say the outcome

26:01

was ultimately the same that Kobe looked, learned

26:03

to work within the system, and the

26:06

team was successful because of it. But it

26:09

doesn't always come easily, Jack, No,

26:11

you know, this just occurred to me. The

26:13

mega Outlander shot, which is the Steph

26:15

Curry Damian Lillard

26:18

a little bit hard and thirty footer. I

26:21

wonder which came about, you

26:23

know, the three point shots. Now a decade

26:25

we've been talking about it, but those

26:27

bombs is a new

26:30

thing, a little bit new four or

26:32

five years, and I wonder if Kobe would

26:34

have got it, would have got into the

26:37

thirty ft thirty two ft

26:39

jump shot type of thing. You know, he

26:41

would have done it against the double team. Though these

26:43

guys are doing it. They're they're they're finding some space.

26:45

If you leave them open from thirty, they're gonna

26:47

pull up. If you double team Kobe

26:49

from thirty. In this era of the NBA, he's

26:52

suiting it against the double team. That's the difference.

26:54

And and you know, it's funny. Right around this time I was

26:56

when I did you know, I did this book on the Sons

26:59

oh five six. They spent three

27:01

quarters of their time for the first round playoff talking

27:04

about how to defense Kobe and mark

27:06

I VRONI would lose hours of sleep

27:09

trying to figure out do we let him shoot

27:11

and guard everybody else or

27:14

do we really shut down on Kobe and feel

27:16

that they can't, you know, sort of the elemental question

27:18

when you're playing against a great player. And

27:20

he said, well, if he goes this way, will double him this

27:22

way and all this, and d'An

27:24

Tony says to him, well, what happens when

27:26

there's four goddamn guys around him, and he just gets

27:29

the ball and shoots and goes does what he does the

27:31

rise up he called it. Ronny goes,

27:33

well, there's nothing we can do about that.

27:35

That's just that's what's gonna happen. But anyway,

27:38

so Jason Kidd and then Carmelo

27:40

is going to follow him, both talk about this inclination

27:44

of Kobe, no surprise, but

27:46

now they're seeing it firsthand

27:48

there on his team, this inclination

27:51

to take really uh wild

27:53

shots, crazy shots even for

27:56

somebody as skillful as Kobe. And here's

27:58

Jason Kidd and then Mellow talking

28:00

about it. Kobe would take some crazy shots.

28:03

You know. There was a point in practice where I asked

28:05

him could he catch and shoot? And

28:08

he looked at me like I was speaking

28:11

a different language, and so,

28:13

um, I just said, do you always have to dribble

28:15

the ball? You know, to to

28:17

shoot? You know? And uh,

28:20

I think he took offense to it at first,

28:22

but I think I was really actually

28:24

just trying to help him make the game easier. Um,

28:28

and I my whole thing was to say, hey,

28:30

if you just can catch and shoot, that sets

28:32

up the whole dribble, That sets up everything

28:34

that you are extremely good at and

28:37

I and I thought, you know, I was trying to help

28:39

him, but I think he was. He was looking

28:41

at me like, no, no, that's how I get my rhythm,

28:43

that's how I play. And I was

28:45

like, okay, all right, we'll figure

28:48

out something else. But he he took some

28:50

some crazy shots. Um, but

28:52

I understand why, because you know, you just never

28:54

know, and at the time I didn't know. But understanding

28:57

who Kobe is now, um,

28:59

he was always going to be prepared for

29:01

a situation that he had to make a

29:03

shot, a tough shot, someone would

29:05

call it a crazy shot, but he would always

29:08

have the answer that I've worked on this. And most people

29:10

would not believe that. The pre

29:12

notion that everybody had about Kobe

29:14

him coming on the team, everybody expected

29:16

that him to bring what

29:19

he was doing with the Lakers, and you know, everybody

29:22

just thought that's what he was gonna do coming on that team.

29:25

And that was as leaders

29:27

on the team that was approached before

29:30

that. You know, it was sit down

29:32

with Code like listen, bro, like, we

29:34

don't need the Laker Kobe, Like you know what I'm

29:36

saying, Like we we need like, we

29:38

we need you to be who you are, but

29:41

you're playing with you know, you're playing with the best. Now

29:44

you're playing the best of the best. So I

29:47

think at first it took him a little while for

29:49

for him to adjust to that. So these

29:51

guys are learning the delicate dance

29:54

not always so delicate at times that

29:56

that comes with playing alongside Kobe

29:58

Bryant. And it sort

30:00

of comes to ahead right before the Olympics in

30:02

the last these exhibition games. Jack you question

30:05

why they did it. Apparently they needed it to to work

30:07

out some of the kinks that they had going

30:09

on this team. So they're

30:11

they're playing Australia in Shanghai

30:14

and it's their last of these exhibitions

30:17

tour games. But before they get to

30:19

Beijing and play and it

30:22

gets a little out of hands with

30:24

some of these shots that that Kobe is taking, and

30:27

it leads to a showdown,

30:29

a meeting that Showski felt

30:32

he had to take and

30:35

schedule with Kobe Bryant, and he did

30:37

so with great trepidation. And

30:39

so coach k describes

30:41

that that whole build up and how that meeting

30:44

went down. We're gonna win, and

30:46

in the first half, Kobe start

30:48

taking Kobe Waker shots, which

30:51

they had not been doing and

30:55

you could see the whole team

30:58

and Lebron is, you

31:00

know, like you're sitting and the team's

31:02

suiting the free throw or something, and you know

31:04

how Lebron can look at you, and

31:07

he looks at me. I

31:09

know we got a real problem.

31:11

And I said, I

31:14

will take care of this. Trust

31:17

me, and he looked again. I said,

31:20

please trust me, let's not and

31:23

I don't want this whole thing blowing up right

31:25

now, and and uh

31:27

he did so.

31:29

But then we were going to Beijing. So we were

31:31

up all night as the staff literally

31:35

all night trying to figure

31:37

out how to handle this. And

31:41

I said, give me his shots

31:45

with a you know, a computer.

31:48

I'll have an individual meeting with Kobe.

31:52

So I'm scared, really apprehensive.

31:55

Let's put it this one meeting.

31:59

But I said, I gotta do it. I

32:01

have to do it. I said, I'll take care of it. So

32:05

I brought him in. I said, look,

32:07

I want to talk to you about shots selection. I

32:10

said, let's take a look at these shots.

32:12

I said, they're

32:14

bullshit shots. You

32:16

know you can't do that when you have

32:19

Carmelo Lebron and

32:22

it e rodes what we're

32:24

what we're doing and

32:27

so I don't know what I'm gonna get, but

32:29

what I get was like a gift

32:31

from God. He just said,

32:34

you're right, I won't do that because

32:37

what else to

32:40

myself? I said, funk, that's that math,

32:43

you know. But I

32:46

said, all right, yes,

32:50

but it was, you know, And so

32:52

there weren't like too

32:55

many of those moments. I didn't I didn't think,

32:57

and but that was one of them.

33:00

You're listening to Kobe Lebron and of a deem

33:02

team. We'll be back after this. Like

33:19

you said, it probably was, you know, in retrospect.

33:22

I mean, coach k didn't want to make it

33:24

sound like it was the whole shooting

33:26

match, but it was right before the Olympics. And

33:29

uh again back to the Dream team.

33:31

You know, they had this legendary scrimmage

33:34

in uh in Monico, in Monte Carlo,

33:37

just because they had a really crappy

33:39

practice right before they were gone to the Olympics.

33:42

And that's kind of not the note that you want

33:44

to set. So this happened presumably

33:46

there's air clearing of some kind

33:49

on they go to Beijing, and

33:52

one of the first things everybody noticed

33:54

over there, and it even took some people by surprise,

33:57

and I think I think me too, little

34:00

bit um and that

34:02

was how big Kobe

34:05

Bryant was in that particular

34:07

era of of Asia,

34:09

of of China. Did you get

34:12

a sense of that back in

34:14

l A during by that time? Was he that he

34:16

was that kind of a global star? I'm

34:19

not sure I got it at that moment, but I certainly

34:22

was quickly made aware of it. And so

34:24

one year, one of the All Star Games

34:27

in l A. And and they've had so many

34:29

recently, but I think it was

34:32

the twenty eleven maybe maybe yeah,

34:34

I'm I'm thinking twenty eleven All Star

34:36

weekend in l A. And we're sitting

34:39

in there in the workroom, which

34:41

also is adjacent to the press

34:43

conference room, and

34:46

all of a sudden, they bring in Kobe, but

34:48

only for Chinese media, so

34:51

the American media was not allowed to go sit

34:53

in there or ask any questions he's doing there.

34:55

It's an appearance for Sprite and

34:57

Jack. I'm trying to imagine how much money they had to pay

35:00

him to take time the day of the All Star

35:02

Game to come in and do this press

35:04

conference. But they debut this new

35:06

commercial that he'd done with this Chinese

35:08

pop star and then they

35:10

had him take questions from the Chinese

35:13

media and packed

35:16

ton of ton of reporters. They're

35:18

all from China, all eager to

35:20

hear what Kobe had to say, and in this pairing

35:23

with this this pop superstar, and

35:26

I thought, Okay, this is something I

35:28

wasn't aware of prior to this,

35:30

but it was obvious that

35:32

there was so much interest in Kobe Bryant and

35:34

that this was such a big deal, and that there

35:36

was so much money for him to make over

35:39

there. And you did see at

35:41

this point, player

35:43

after player going over to China and making these

35:45

trips, usually sponsored by their shoe companies,

35:48

and you did see the popularity. And I

35:50

would hear stories from Kobe security people

35:52

about just how crazy it was

35:54

when he went over there, and we heard

35:57

similar tales from the likes of

35:59

Jerry Colangelo as we heard him in

36:01

the preview for this episode, and also

36:03

Sean Ford telling us about the

36:06

insane popularity for Kobe

36:08

Bryant the game's leading up to the

36:10

Olympics. You know, two o'clock in the

36:12

morning and ten thousand people are on the streets

36:15

lined up waiting for yelling Kobe,

36:17

Kobe, Kobe, I mean

36:19

he was. He had invested a

36:21

lot of time over in China

36:25

in Japan and had built

36:28

quite a business for himself and follow

36:30

him, and he was larger

36:33

than life for for

36:35

those people. That was kind

36:38

of a revelation for me, just

36:40

how big he had become and

36:43

how big the market was over

36:45

there for NBA players.

36:48

I don't know, but it was amazing, you

36:50

know, the players when we would go and

36:53

if we were gonna go somewhere where the crowd

36:55

was gonna kind of like her, they would always make

36:57

Kobe go first, right is

37:00

then they would go crazy about him, and then the other

37:02

guys could just like walk around and like

37:04

not be noticed. But it

37:06

was amazing to me everywhere

37:09

he went, when we pulled in and out of

37:11

the hotel and in the game and there were

37:13

crowds there and stuff. They it was

37:16

always they were yelling Kobe. They were always

37:18

yelling Kobe. But now there was one

37:20

name. I guess you could

37:22

say as big, big in a different big

37:25

in a different way. I suspect if you gave

37:27

the Chinese people a choice between

37:31

hanging out with Kobe for a while

37:33

or hanging out with Yao Ming, I will

37:35

say this, Jack that remember Tracy McGrady

37:38

sold more jerseys in China than

37:40

Yao Ming for a while, and they were both playing on the

37:43

rockets. So I don't think it's too far

37:45

fetched to think that Kobe Bryant could

37:47

have been more popular than Yaoming in China. We're

37:49

gonna go with that. But the first game,

37:51

and I don't I don't know whether

37:54

they arranged the draw in

37:56

the Olympics to have, but you know, Game

37:58

one, at any way, at

38:00

any rate, is the United States

38:03

versus China, and

38:06

I you know, it's hard to imagine

38:09

anything that big. You know, the

38:11

home country. They built

38:13

this, They built this Olympics up

38:15

like nobody had ever done a more efficient

38:17

job of constructing a whole

38:20

Olympics than the Chinese people

38:22

did. The first game is gonna be,

38:25

uh, your guy, do you have anything comparable

38:27

of a home not in the United

38:29

States, but being somewhere overseas?

38:32

You had mentioned you saw the World Cup in

38:34

Germany. You know you're watching it there. Do you

38:36

have any experience comparable to what this

38:38

would be, not of being there, I

38:40

remember just watching on TV

38:43

and Jack, you might have been there for this opening

38:45

ceremonies. But the U the

38:48

archer that lit the flame in Barcelona

38:50

for the opening ceremony. Oh, I was there, unbelievable.

38:53

And I know it wasn't a

38:55

hero, you know, it wasn't It

38:57

wasn't like one of their great sports heroes. But

39:00

uh, it just felt like there was that

39:02

pride and and that was a little bit different too, because

39:05

Barcelona you're dealing with like

39:07

Catalonian pride in addition to Spanish

39:09

pride, and those are two separate things, right, So I think it

39:11

was the pride of the region, the pride

39:14

of the country, and I felt

39:16

that even through the television. Um,

39:19

just in terms of a hero Jack. I went to a

39:21

promotional event for Alberto

39:23

Tomba, the great Italian skier

39:25

and the swaggering self

39:27

styled playboy. So they did a

39:30

promotional event for a credit card company in

39:32

Turin, Italy when the Olympics were there

39:35

in two thousand and six, and it

39:37

was a Valentine's Day promotion and I think,

39:39

you know, women could win like a lunch

39:41

with Alberto Tomba. Uh,

39:44

and so you know he's he's one

39:46

of their great Winter Olympic heroes.

39:48

So I did get to see that. I did get to see

39:51

Tombo's popularity in his own

39:53

country, but I don't think it was comparable to Yea

39:55

Megan China. So I will say that I

39:58

think one of my top five moments

40:00

as a sportswriter was

40:03

in in Australia in two

40:05

thousand at the Olympics. Fortunately I wasn't even

40:07

working. I was at the track the

40:10

night that Kathy Freeman took

40:12

the starting line for the fours.

40:15

And Cathy Freeman and an Aboriginal athlete

40:17

who had been gone through I

40:20

can't even imagine what, you

40:22

know, what kind of prejudice. But by the year two

40:24

thousand, everybody in Australia

40:26

realized, okay, well,

40:28

we gotta get together. She is an amazing athlete.

40:31

She's our hero. She was the

40:34

face of those Olympics.

40:36

And that guy was sitting in the in

40:38

the track stadium that night. I don't

40:40

know how many were there, but every seat is taken

40:42

always in the Olympics, and that gun

40:45

went off. I never heard

40:48

anything like it. You I was

40:51

sitting next to somebody from Sports Illustrated.

40:53

We couldn't we were shouting and we couldn't hear each

40:55

other. We were, you know, twelve inches apart.

40:58

And she went around and on and I

41:00

just uh, I just never never

41:03

forgot that, you know, and I guess

41:05

this, you know, this moment for Yao

41:07

was something like it. So, uh set

41:10

the seat a little bit. What's happening? Here comes Yallo out

41:12

for the opening tip. Yeah, it felt more ceremonial,

41:15

Jack, maybe than Cathy Freeman winning

41:17

the gold medal. Remember y'all had carried

41:19

the the Chinese flag into the stadium

41:21

and the opening ceremonies, and

41:24

it really was. He was the

41:26

face of the Chinese delegation,

41:29

that this humongous Chinese sporting

41:31

delegation as the host country,

41:34

and uh, here he is. They

41:37

had to have drawn his play up for him, Jack, right,

41:40

even though it's not exactly his sweet spot.

41:43

Uh yeah. Ming isn't known as

41:45

a long distance shooter. But here

41:47

they are the first game and

41:51

from the first play China against the ball,

41:54

and they set up a screening roll for

41:56

yell Ming. Maybe they'd seen the Skuyting

41:58

report that Greece game where Greets

42:01

killed him on the screen and roll in

42:03

the World Championships. So they

42:05

run like a maybe more of a pick and

42:07

pop, and yeah, Ming

42:09

gets a three pointer straight away and

42:12

drains it and the place goes crazy and yeah,

42:14

does this gigantic fish pump? And

42:16

it was a pretty cool moment. Chris Boss

42:18

described it to us. It was a surreal

42:20

feeling kind of pulling up to the stadium

42:22

seeing I mean, it was it's the Olympics, right, Yeah,

42:25

you see the birds nests and then the aquatic

42:28

center, and you see all

42:31

the people in the streets and all that stuff.

42:33

We had already taken part in the ceremony

42:35

and now it's time to get down to business. But I

42:37

think that was I mean, it was a

42:39

huge game for everybody because you

42:41

know, um, we had all been to China a

42:44

couple of years before, we had seen

42:46

the growth. So like I said before,

42:48

this was their moment to really kind

42:50

of just established themselves as a basketball

42:52

power in the world. We knew,

42:55

I mean, once we got the schedule, we knew,

42:58

Okay, all right, this is gonna be crazy

43:01

China basketball. This is their moment

43:03

for the world to showcase to the world.

43:06

Um, they had a pretty good team as well. Um,

43:10

and yeah, yeah, it comes out and hits the first

43:14

the first shot and it's the three, and I mean

43:16

it was deafeningly loud.

43:18

I remember asking Chris during our interview

43:20

with him, he was on the you know, he didn't start. Dwight

43:23

Howard started at center, and

43:25

I said, Chris, were you screaming

43:28

Dwight get out on him. You gotta get out on

43:30

him, you know. But that's not what they were thinking

43:32

for the first play the game, and it was it

43:35

was beautiful, and I wondered, probably

43:38

the States didn't think this dre In the middle of the game,

43:40

I wondered, Okay, that's

43:42

great, let's get at the hell over with

43:44

and uh and go on. But it

43:47

wasn't. After y'all

43:49

hit that shot. I think it inspired China a little

43:51

bit. They played a good game, so it wasn't

43:53

all that easy of a game for him,

43:55

Jay, It wasn't. It took a while for

43:58

them to pull away. But as

44:00

was the case, inevitably and just about

44:02

every game they played over there, they would have

44:04

this run. Uh. I like to call it the

44:06

can opener, when they would just have this

44:09

moment and it would just you know, pry

44:11

the lid off the game and then forget it.

44:13

In this game, the can open a moment

44:15

was uh, uh

44:18

box gets a rebound those in the

44:20

haad the kid and uh

44:23

he throws along pass the Dwayne Wade who

44:26

throws this incredible alley you to

44:28

Lebron, and Lebron throws it down one handed,

44:31

and that makes it for two and

44:33

and and they're off and here they go, uh

44:36

and and it was just a breathtaking

44:39

display of the athleticism

44:41

of Lebron and the firepower

44:44

of Team USA. And so you think that

44:46

all of this going on, all this excitement China

44:50

hosting the Olympics, this

44:52

redeemed team, and the incredible athleticism

44:54

of the American players, But

44:57

there was one person in the American delegation

44:59

in the stad ends who wasn't all

45:01

that impressed. Is the guyfather Jerry

45:03

Colangelo told us about the whole experience

45:06

of playing China in the first game.

45:08

The most watched televised

45:11

game in the history of televised

45:13

basketball was that game.

45:15

And obviously being in China playing

45:18

them, um, that's the

45:20

reason for all of that. But it was you

45:22

know, a funny story is President

45:25

Bush and his father and

45:27

the whole Bush clan wanted me to

45:29

sit with them. And usually during

45:32

the game, I'm either playing

45:34

or coaching, and I'm not

45:36

a very good host, you

45:39

know, in terms of small talk during

45:41

the game because I'm into the game,

45:44

but I agreed to do that when the President

45:47

requested you do it. So I'm

45:49

getting to my seat with

45:51

them and the President

45:54

of China, the

45:56

their top chelon of people who are

45:59

right there. We're all together. But

46:01

as I'm going to my seat, I

46:03

just kind of noticed somebody sleeping in

46:06

the midst of all of this, and

46:08

it was Kissinger.

46:12

Kissinger was sound asleep during

46:15

everything that was going on. In

46:17

all fairness, Jay football

46:19

was really Kissinger's game. He constantly

46:22

dropped soccer metaphors

46:24

into his negotiating, and he

46:27

was supposedly the person most responsible

46:29

for getting uh Pail to play

46:31

over here in the North American Soccer League.

46:34

So he was probably waiting for, you

46:36

know, Jay Kid to set up Lebron

46:38

with a corner kick or something like that for ahead

46:40

or otherwise. He probably

46:42

wasn't interested. But the

46:45

games went on and rarely was the United

46:48

States asleep during that rest

46:50

of the Olympics, although one

46:52

member of the American contingent was. So

46:55

we have another dozing story j A for

46:57

episode nine, as well as accounts

46:59

of the games the way the team really

47:01

came together. And

47:04

here's Chris Bosh to close us out.

47:07

I mean, you know, as close you man. I mean, you

47:09

see how talented guys were, And

47:11

I always tell people that was some of the best

47:13

basketball I've ever seen. I remember

47:16

just being happy of having that luxury

47:18

just to kind of playoff guys, just to

47:20

see how really how talented

47:23

guys are, what their work ethic is and all

47:25

these things, and just to be able to take part

47:27

in that and have a good summer roader. I'm

47:30

Jack McCallum. That's all for episode

47:32

eight, and I'm J Donne. Will be back with

47:34

more in episode nine.

47:39

The Dream Team Tapes Season two,

47:41

Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team

47:44

is a production of Diversion Podcasts

47:47

in association with I Heart Radio.

47:49

For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit

47:52

the I Heart Radio app, Apple

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Podcasts, or wherever you get

47:57

your podcasts. This

47:59

season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum

48:02

and j A. Dande. Executive

48:04

producer Scott Waxman and Mark Francis

48:06

for Diversion podcast and Shawn's

48:09

High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our

48:11

editorial director is John Tuttle, Supervising

48:14

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48:16

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48:19

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48:22

Verna. Fields is our technical producer

48:25

and our Director of Marketing and business

48:27

Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion

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