0:01

The Dream Team Tapes season two.

0:04

Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team

0:06

is a production of Diversion Podcasts

0:09

in association with I Heart Radio

0:20

Diversion Podcasts. The

0:25

players selected for the honor of representing

0:27

the United States in the two thousand and eight

0:30

Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe

0:34

Bryant. We

0:36

look forward to this for a while, you know it to be in this

0:38

position now here represent our country

0:40

minutes, especially special

0:44

Lebron James. We

0:46

look for an opportunity of the weekend on Alma being

0:48

the best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team

0:51

is it is right, We're

0:53

the rest team in the world. We're the best team in

0:55

the world. We put Basketball America

0:57

basketball Wheal defeat, which is

0:59

at the time can

1:20

you hear that Godfather like music in

1:22

the background? I'm Jack McCallum,

1:25

and we're here in episode four of

1:27

Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team

1:30

to talk about a Godfather figure who

1:33

did a humpty dumpty repair act on

1:35

an American basketball program that had

1:37

fallen on hard times. Now,

1:40

there are many reasons why the Redeemed Team

1:42

became the Redeemed Team, but one

1:45

of the big ones is Jerry Colangelo the

1:47

Godfather, and that's the title of episode

1:50

four. My co host

1:52

is Jay Adonde, who did the great

1:54

podcast Beyond the Last Dance?

1:57

Jay, what has been your connection with the Godfather?

1:59

Over the anybody that covered the league

2:01

pretty much came into contact with Jerry

2:04

Colangelo exactly.

2:06

He was impossible to avoid if

2:08

you're around basketball basketball

2:10

in general, in particularly the NBA. But I'd say

2:12

the first time I really got a taste of his

2:15

power, and that was in two thousand

2:17

at the National Association of Black Journalists convention

2:19

in Phoenix that year and we

2:22

had given one of our Pioneer Awards. The

2:24

Sports Task Force gives Pioneer awards for

2:26

people of groundbreaking in that region,

2:29

and so Jerry got one. Connie

2:31

Hawkins, the Great Phoenix sun Star

2:34

was was another recipient that year, and

2:36

we had bought tickets to an Arizona Diamondbacks

2:39

game. Of course, Colangelo was the

2:41

man in charge of the Diamondbacks. So we bought

2:43

a block of tickets and we let Jerry

2:45

know about it, and he said, how many tickets

2:47

you get? We're like twenty in our block. He said,

2:50

I see way more than twenty people here. Do you. You

2:52

guys need some more tickets? Like okay, Henny

2:54

whips out his cell phone. He's on the phone. He says, what

2:57

about a sweet you guys want to sweep? Okay?

2:59

Sure? What do you want

3:01

in there? Want some beers? Want some chickens,

3:03

some nachos? What do you want? Put

3:05

in our order? And boom, like in thirty

3:08

seconds, done and we go there. We

3:10

had a suite. We get in there, there's a big tub

3:13

of beers. Diamondbacks were playing the cub

3:15

Sammy Sosa hit a couple of home runs. It

3:17

might have been the best time I've ever had at a baseball game.

3:19

And Jerry Colangelo made it happen

3:22

in about thirty seconds, just from start

3:24

to finish. He hooked it up like that. So

3:27

that's the power of Jerry Colangelo. I got a

3:29

quick lesson in that. Yep, that's what you do

3:31

when you're the godfather. But you know, before

3:33

we hear what he's done. Here's a very quick

3:36

bio. Jerry has owned,

3:38

general, managed, and coached the Phoenix

3:40

Suns. He has owned the Arizona

3:42

Diamondbacks of Major League Baseball,

3:45

the Phoenix Mercury of the w n b

3:47

A, the Arizona sand Sharks

3:49

of the Continental Indoor Soccer League,

3:51

the Arizona Rattlers of the Arena Football

3:54

League, and he was instrumental in relocating

3:56

the Winnipeg Jets to become

3:59

the Phoenix Coyotes. He

4:01

built a program at Grand Canyon University,

4:04

he was chairman of the basketball operation

4:06

for the seventies sixers, and

4:09

he's been president of the NBA Board of

4:11

Governors. And that's not even the most interesting

4:13

part of his bio. J A. I'm not gonna say how

4:16

old he is, that's up to him. But let's just say

4:19

he was around long enough that

4:21

he was going to be a teammate of

4:23

Wilt Chamberlain at the University

4:25

of Kansas. This was after

4:27

wild had been there and Will

4:30

decided to leave for the Harlem Globetrotters,

4:33

and Jerry took one look around and decided,

4:35

without Wilt Chamberlain, I don't

4:37

want to be there either. He transferred

4:39

to the University of Illinois, where

4:41

he became a very good big ten basketball player.

4:44

So for a little background on why

4:46

Jerry was so important, we have to go back

4:48

to those years around two

4:50

thousand three, two thousand four,

4:54

JA, what was going on why was he so needed

4:56

to come along and save the USA basketball

4:59

program. Well, USA basketball falling

5:01

on hard times, and it took about

5:03

a decade since the advent of

5:05

NBA players into USA Basketball,

5:08

and they were riding high through three Olympics,

5:10

but then it had fallen in and starting

5:13

with the two thousand two World Championships

5:15

in America in Indianapolis,

5:18

the US losers there, and then of course the

5:20

fiasco of the third place finish in

5:22

Athens at the Olympics there in two thousand

5:25

four. So just throwing

5:27

out NBA players wasn't enough.

5:30

We needed a stronger regiment

5:33

and USA basketball needed more buy

5:35

in from the top players. It was clear

5:37

that in order to win the gold medal again they needed

5:40

the best of American basketball players

5:42

to participate, not just American basketball

5:44

players. That wasn't gonna cut it anymore. They needed

5:46

someone to get everyone in line, to get

5:49

buy in, to bring structure an organization,

5:51

and that's where Jerry Colangelo came in. Now,

5:54

there's a theory from the nineteenth century

5:56

called the Great Man theory. Thomas

5:58

Carlyle thought of it, and he's Scottish,

6:00

and I'm Scottish, and that's probably

6:03

why I remember it. Carlisle

6:05

theorized that history could be explained

6:07

by the impact of great men, that

6:10

they come along at times of most need,

6:13

that they had divine inspiration, they had

6:15

couraged, they had intellect, and they

6:17

had leadership to make it really happen.

6:20

Where the hell they are during the pandemic, By

6:22

the way, I have no idea, But anyway, in

6:24

terms of the great man theory, if you look at the Redeemed

6:26

team, I suppose we could say it would

6:28

be Mike Shaski, who were going to be

6:31

talking about in the next episode, or

6:33

Kobe Bryant or Lebron James, who we've

6:35

already discussed. But the first one

6:37

to come along to change the course

6:40

of USA basketball's history was Jerry

6:42

Colangelo. And when the invitation

6:45

came along to lead USA basketball

6:47

and reorganized the program,

6:49

it was a very inopportune

6:52

time for Mr. Colangelo. First

6:54

of all, All four was a very traumatic

6:56

year for me outside of watching

7:00

the USA basketball team

7:02

UH not do very well in Greece. But I

7:05

had made a decision to h to

7:07

sell the Suns that took place in

7:10

the middle of oh four. Not

7:13

long after that, I stepped down

7:15

with the Diamondbacks, a few months

7:17

later, I was inducted into the Basketball

7:20

Hall of Fame. I took my wife

7:22

to Europe got involved in the street

7:24

fight on the streets of Paris

7:27

when she was attacked by two muggers,

7:29

and that was an interesting

7:32

evening because we had plans

7:34

in Paris, and as it turned up,

7:37

my eyes were not in good shape when I was

7:39

pepper spray during this fight, and

7:42

we had to spend the night

7:44

in the hotel. I did order

7:46

a bottle of champagne and pour

7:48

two glasses, and I said to my wife,

7:50

we were both sixty five at the time.

7:52

I said, you know, for two sixty

7:55

five year olds, we handled ourselves pretty

7:57

well. And I'm referring to the fight

7:59

that took place in front of a five star

8:01

hotel in Paris. And

8:04

so I had a speaking engagement

8:06

in Chicago on the way back, and

8:09

I made the comment, I said, you know, it's been

8:11

a very traumatic year. There's

8:13

still a little bit of time left in this year.

8:16

What's next? And soon

8:19

thereafter I was advised I had prostate

8:21

cancer and had to

8:23

make some major decisions

8:26

in terms of my health. Now. I

8:28

was around Jerry in those years a lot because

8:30

I was researching a book on the Phoenix Suns,

8:32

which became seven seconds or less. And

8:35

I was impressed by the way the way

8:37

Jerry he had just sold the team, as

8:39

he mentioned in his earlier quote to Robert

8:41

Sarver, who did things, let's just say a little

8:43

differently now. He did leave his son

8:46

in place, Brian Colangelo was GM

8:48

of the Sons. He later left also,

8:50

But for a guy that was really at

8:52

the center of things, Jerry left that team

8:55

alone after he had sold

8:57

it to Robert Sarver. Otherwise,

8:59

though, he was always in the middle of the

9:01

action, rules committees, controversies,

9:04

TV negotiations, and I said earlier,

9:07

he was chairman of the Board of Governors of

9:09

the NBA. And I was surprised

9:11

when we asked him why he had never been

9:14

invited before two

9:16

thousand five to get involved

9:18

with the Olympic program. Here's what he said, I

9:20

don't know, I'm not sure. I'm

9:22

not sure there was ever an invitation

9:26

to be involved with USA basketball.

9:28

Well, there was a need to have him now, and

9:30

David Stern, then the commissioner, usually

9:33

left most of the work with USA Basketball

9:36

to his trusted lieutenant Russ Grantick,

9:38

who is by the way one of the truly

9:40

underrated figures in our Olympic basketball

9:43

program. And one day David

9:45

Stern called the Godfather. We tease

9:48

this in the last episode, but here it

9:50

is again. He said, Jerry, look,

9:52

I know you were just as unhappy

9:54

as me and everyone else regarding

9:57

the showing in Greece and all the things

10:00

it and there needs to be some change. Would

10:02

you be willing to take on the responsibility

10:05

for USA Basketball? And I'm

10:07

instinctive and I basically

10:09

said, yeah, I'll do it, but I

10:11

have a couple of conditions, and he said what

10:13

are they. I said, one

10:16

full autonomy. I'll

10:18

pick the coaches and the players in

10:21

this whole system, which

10:23

was a little too political for me, uh

10:26

in terms of the selection process

10:29

who went by the wayside. He said, you

10:31

got it. What's number two? And I said,

10:33

I don't want to hear about a budget and

10:36

he went off in typical Stern fashion,

10:39

and I let him go and I said, David,

10:41

are you finished? He said yes. I said it's

10:43

still number two, and he acquiesced,

10:46

and then I assured him, don't worry

10:48

about it. I'll raise the money

10:51

now. During that prior quad they

10:54

raised nine million dollars to cover expenses

10:56

for USA Basketball. During

10:59

my first quad, we raised

11:01

thirty six million and

11:03

there was no looking back. So

11:06

that's how it all started. And that was all

11:09

in the early days

11:11

of All five. That's true.

11:13

Money was never much of an object for Jerry,

11:16

either spending it or raising it. And

11:18

I think you came across that particular

11:20

aspect of Jerry Colangelo. J And

11:23

one time I was out in Phoenix and there was an event

11:25

of fundraising event for the Basketball

11:27

Hall of Fame, which, as you mentioned, Jerry Clangelo's

11:30

chairman of the board. I don't know what his title is, it

11:32

always sounds appropriate to call him the chairman of the board.

11:35

And so he got in there and

11:37

he just hounded people. He got up there

11:39

when it was time to really bring in the bucks

11:41

at the end of this this banquet. He

11:44

just ground people down and forced them.

11:46

And I've heard stories that he's

11:48

done fundraising events where he'll literally

11:50

locked the doors to the room and say,

11:53

you guys are leaving here until we hit

11:55

our target figure of fundraising. So he is a

11:58

phenomenal fundraiser. You

12:00

just don't want to go against him, right if he asked you for something,

12:02

you don't want to say no. He's pretty impossible to refuse.

12:05

Yeah, he's a hard guy to refuse. I mean he

12:07

he now heads the Hall of Fame. He really

12:10

turned around, by the way, their their finances,

12:12

and pretty much a month doesn't go by

12:15

that I don't get a fundraising letter from

12:17

the from the Hall of Fame. The

12:19

other thing about Jerry, by the way, and one of the

12:21

reasons I always enjoyed talking

12:24

to him and and being in his circle,

12:26

was he sort of like the old time boxing

12:29

promoters. He doesn't care

12:31

what you say about him, just say

12:33

something. He doesn't take things personal.

12:35

He doesn't held grudges. He's

12:38

had some negative publicity along the way,

12:40

but he's always rolled with it and

12:43

never held that against anyone. Later

12:46

now, you asked him during our long interview

12:48

with him, why was it important for

12:50

him to answer this call to USA Basketball.

12:53

Well, I was, I guess

12:55

at the moment, I felt that I

12:58

was in a position to do something

13:00

like that, and it was great

13:02

timing in my opinion. You know, you

13:04

sell the Sun's you step down in baseball,

13:07

So I was available, let's put

13:10

it that way, even with my full plate

13:12

of other things. I liked

13:14

it. I liked the challenge, you know, in

13:17

terms of taking on that responsibility,

13:20

and it was you know, I'm pretty

13:22

open about this. I'm

13:24

proud to be an American. I was unhappy

13:27

about the way people were looking at us

13:29

as Americans, as athletes,

13:31

and in particular our basketball

13:33

people in Greece, and

13:36

it was a little shameful in my opinion.

13:39

And so the opportunity to represent

13:42

your country, which is a lot different than

13:45

the City States, and

13:47

not just something domestic, but this was

13:50

representing your country on the world

13:52

stage and having a chance

13:55

to to make a statement. You're

13:57

listening to Kobe Lebron and the

13:59

redeem Team be back in a minute.

14:06

So the first order of business for any new executive

14:08

is to quote change the culture unquote.

14:10

Now that's a vague term, but a lot

14:13

of times in sports, I think j what

14:15

that means is to get a new coach,

14:17

get a coach that's going to set the

14:20

right tenor set the team on

14:22

a new course. Back in the

14:24

early nineties, they picked Chuck

14:27

Daily to be coach of the Dream Team

14:29

in early because

14:32

they thought he was the best guy

14:34

to establish the correct culture. And I

14:36

think that, uh, that was the right decision.

14:39

So to make this decision for

14:42

the two thousand and eight team what later became

14:44

known as the Redeemed Team, Jerry Colangelo

14:47

wanted feedback. And the great

14:49

thing about being a godfather j A is

14:52

when you hold us sit down, everybody

14:55

comes exactly. And so Jerry

14:57

Colangelo basically convene a meeting

14:59

of the five families if you're a guyfather fan,

15:02

and got all these big names in

15:04

the basketball world, all people who had been involved

15:06

with the Olympics before, to get together for

15:08

a brainstorming session in Chicago. And

15:10

that's what's so impressive is that he didn't

15:12

call them together for any particular

15:15

moment or movement. You know, let's

15:17

let's just kick around some ideas. And only

15:19

Jerry Calangrigo could get that type of star power

15:21

one room just for an idea session. Immediately

15:24

I knew culture change,

15:27

we have to get gained back the respect.

15:30

And my first order of business was who's

15:33

going to be the coach that I

15:35

would select. I called a meeting in

15:37

Chicago of former

15:39

Olympic coaches and former

15:42

Olympic players and it was held at the

15:45

Italian American Sports Hall of Fame,

15:47

and it was a new building, great

15:49

setting, and if

15:51

you were a basketball fly, you

15:54

wanted to be in that room. Knowing

15:56

who was in that room

15:58

A great names, great

16:01

basketball people all there because

16:04

I had requested them to be

16:06

there, because they cared. And

16:08

so he got all these people to come there.

16:10

And by these people, I'm talking the likes of

16:13

Michael Jordan's, Larry Bird,

16:15

Jerry West, John Thompson,

16:18

Scottie Pippen, all these

16:20

legendary figures of the game showed up

16:22

just because he asked them to. It was

16:24

out of respect they were showing

16:27

me and I. Basically

16:29

they knew I was going to make the final decisions,

16:32

but the fact that I was reaching out and wanted

16:34

their inputum meant

16:37

something to them. Also, I had each

16:39

one of them speak. I

16:41

wanted to know, share your experience

16:44

as an Olympian, tell us what

16:46

your read on how things are, and number

16:48

three, what do you think needs to happen? And

16:51

they all had great stories, and

16:53

you know, we just sat around and listened

16:55

and it was it was terrific.

16:58

And then I said, well, I'm

17:00

gonna put some names up on the board. Let's

17:03

let's talk about coaches, pro

17:05

coaches, college coaches, and

17:08

the college coach of course, as

17:10

you know, that turned out

17:12

to be number one by a land slide.

17:14

At the time was coach K. But Dean

17:17

Smith, who was a former Olympic

17:19

coach, was there and he

17:21

said, there's only one one

17:24

college guy up there on that board who

17:26

could get the job done, and that's because

17:29

he has the respect of all the

17:31

players and he's current. He's

17:33

the He's the one. And

17:35

that was coach K. Now, think

17:38

about that. His his biggest

17:40

rival in his career

17:43

was Dean Smith, and Dean Smith was

17:45

pushing him, which I thought was kind

17:47

of a seminal moment

17:50

for me at least. And

17:52

then we got to the players and we broke

17:54

down the players by position, and

17:57

we start talking about a whole list

17:59

of players, some ranking players. But

18:02

here's an interesting thing on the on the

18:04

pro coaches, uh, number

18:06

one was Popovich. Number

18:08

two was someone not even coaching

18:11

anymore. It was Pat Riley.

18:13

He had stepped down from coaching. But Pat

18:15

got the second most support. So

18:17

literally I had to two

18:20

candidates, Popovich

18:22

in coach K so J. At this point,

18:24

if you're a betting man, you're thinking, well, we

18:27

don't know what happened in a meeting, but you

18:29

probably looks like Greg Popovitch,

18:32

who has already won NBA championships.

18:35

It looks like he's going to be the guy. You would think

18:38

so. But I mean, if Dean Is is vouching

18:40

for coach k and it's a pretty strong

18:42

endorsement from his rival from from up Tobacco

18:45

Road. And keep in mind Phil Jackson,

18:47

you would think would be another candidate. But as

18:49

he told us, he was basically

18:51

out of the mix. He's been asking in nineteen nineties

18:53

and he said no. Back then, I was asked

18:56

and declined. I felt that,

18:58

you know, I was in the middle of coaching

19:01

until July. Usually

19:04

season would end in June. We go

19:06

into the draft in late June, and

19:09

I had in my contract that I had two months

19:11

off July and August and i'd

19:14

be back in Labor Day.

19:16

And I had a family of five, and

19:18

I wanted to get back in with my family

19:21

and enjoy my summers

19:23

and be compressed from

19:25

basketball. So when they asked

19:27

if I was interested, I said no, USA,

19:31

I said no, I'm not, thank you. So

19:33

Phil, in USA basketball that's a

19:35

no go, and that have been long established,

19:38

and you know, Gregg Popovitch, you would think

19:40

would be a strong candidate. He'd already

19:42

won a couple of NBA championships

19:45

at that point. It's shown that he could work

19:47

with big players, but maybe

19:49

he was a little bit specific to the type

19:51

of players that he had on that team in San

19:53

Antonio. That might have been one concern. And

19:56

then the other concern was he

19:59

and j he just didn't really hit it off. Pop

20:01

and I had had our disagreements,

20:05

you know, just competitive disagreements between

20:08

San Antonio and Phoenix over

20:10

the years. Mike I knew fairly

20:13

well. I mean I saw Mike play when

20:15

he was at Army a hundred years

20:18

ago, and I spent time

20:20

with him when he was an assistant at Indiana

20:22

under Bobby Knight briefly, So

20:25

there was a relationship there, and from time

20:27

to time I would speak with him about players

20:30

before the draft each year, et cetera,

20:33

and so I had a good relationship. Um

20:37

I called Pop, and

20:39

honestly, I this turned

20:41

out to be yet another problem for the two

20:43

of us at the moment. At that time,

20:46

I didn't sense any real enthusiasm

20:48

over the phone from Pop. He

20:50

was really basically being himself

20:53

because he doesn't show a

20:55

lot of emotion or enthusiasm.

20:58

So in some ways was a little bit

21:00

of a misread on my part. But

21:02

I walked away from that phone call a

21:04

little taken back that he didn't

21:07

show more enthusiasm

21:09

for the opportunity. The reason

21:11

that became an issue is that later

21:14

on, when I was asked

21:16

why coach Chowski

21:19

and not Popovich, I said

21:21

that to the media in some

21:24

way, shape or form, I said I didn't

21:26

feel it. I didn't sense it. Well, that

21:29

upset Pop quite a bit. He sent

21:31

me a letter expressing

21:33

his uh, you know, unhappiness,

21:37

etcetera. And I apologize to him at

21:39

the time. And there's an even deeper angle

21:41

to the whole pop story. Remember

21:44

that Pop had been the main assistant on that Larry

21:46

Brown team that had been embarrassed

21:48

in the two thousand four Olympics. Here's

21:51

a guy we've counted on before, Sean

21:53

Ford, who was now USA Basketball's

21:55

national team director, totally plugged

21:57

in. He talks about that Popovitch.

22:00

This is an instance where I wish I was better

22:03

at my job and saw things

22:05

better and different because I

22:07

think you know that the meeting that

22:10

Jerry's talking about took place

22:12

in May of two thousand five and

22:15

here you have Jerry who's just really

22:18

really excited and he should be you

22:20

know, of where he is and what's

22:22

in front of him. And in

22:24

that meeting there was there was conversations

22:26

of who the coaches should be, and you know, it

22:29

seemed like the clear favorites

22:31

were you know, coach K and

22:33

and and Pop, you know, and it wasn't

22:35

a lot of conversation between the two. It was just

22:37

like that was a direction. And

22:40

you know, an interesting thing in the meeting

22:42

is that you know, a lot of different people spoke,

22:45

you know, but one of the things that happened was that

22:47

you know, Michael Jordan's supported Coach

22:50

K as the coach, and Dean Smith was in the

22:52

room, you know, and I think Dean supported

22:55

it as well. And so it's not like

22:57

that carried the day, but that's a

22:59

moment that you know, you you think

23:01

about if you're in the room, that that's something you

23:03

you remember. But the other thing

23:05

is that here's Pop who had

23:08

the experience of O two, the low

23:10

vote two, the high of oh three when we were

23:13

really good, and then the low VO four

23:16

and it's still you know, in his system,

23:19

and so when when he talks to Jerry,

23:22

he's I think still thinking about

23:24

how we can you know, we gotta do things differently.

23:26

And I think it was it was still

23:28

close. It was still an open

23:30

wound for Pop, you know, and I think

23:33

that, but he was he was still very interested.

23:35

You would have loved to do it. And so I've

23:37

heard Jerry talked about that a little bit and

23:40

and I wish I, you know, maybe you

23:42

know, could have said, you know, hey, look I you

23:44

gotta understand where Pop is right now. This

23:47

is still an open wound for him. So Jerry

23:49

had his coach, Mike Showski, who

23:52

also happened to be Michael Jordan's choice and

23:54

Dean smith choice. But Jay,

23:57

you still got to get the players. And

24:00

remember what Collegela was doing. Here was a big

24:02

ask, a much bigger ask

24:04

than former Olympians had received. Here's

24:06

Craig Miller, who was USA Basketball's

24:09

longtime director of public relations.

24:11

It's famously known that he went and

24:14

interview, had player's interview with him

24:16

and talk about why they wanted to play and how much

24:18

do they want to play? And you

24:20

know, it's like anything else sins, the

24:23

more you got to become invested

24:26

in something, the more it means to you. And

24:28

then the other part of it was, this wasn't

24:30

when Jerry took over, It wasn't just a one year commendment.

24:33

It ended up being almost a three year

24:35

two thousand and six, two thousand seven, two thousand

24:38

and eight. We had competitions every

24:40

year, and we had the same

24:42

core group of players. You know. I think one of the Godfather's

24:44

greatest strength was that he stayed

24:47

in touch with the game. You gotta

24:49

stay connected. And here's Sean Ford

24:51

again talking about that. What was interesting

24:54

to me is that Jerry did a really good job

24:56

through his career of staying in touch with people

24:58

in college knowing you know, like

25:00

Bobby and Knight was always really like they played

25:03

together in you know, in the Big Ten in the

25:06

late fifties, early sixties, and people

25:08

knew him, remember, you know, like

25:10

CM and Tom dear instead and

25:12

people like that. They didn't they weren't friends

25:14

with him, but they had met him, they

25:16

had they knew about him, they

25:19

had interacted with him in some capacity

25:21

somewhere along the line. And

25:24

when you think of NBA owners, you don't

25:26

think of that, you know a lot, But

25:28

with Jerry, he was engaged

25:31

in a lot of different things, you know, j There's

25:33

only been certain guys who have been able to do

25:35

that over a period of years. A

25:37

lot of the old timers, you know, the guys that didn't

25:39

make as much money, people forgot

25:41

about them. They're not in the headlines anymore. They

25:44

get disillusioned, they drift away

25:46

from the game. But Jerry Colangelo,

25:49

like a few others, you know, state connected. There's

25:52

only a couple other guys who have been able to do that.

25:54

Yeah, I'd say Jerry West is another great

25:56

example. Nineteen sixties

25:58

Olympics Laker great in

26:00

the sixties and early seventies and

26:03

became one of the best executives, if not the

26:06

best basketball executives of all time, and even

26:08

when that time had passed, has still stuck

26:11

around and even to this day, his input

26:13

is so valued that he's

26:16

always on someone's list as a consultant.

26:18

He'd recently had done it with the Golden State Warriors,

26:21

currently with the Los Angeles Clippers. So

26:24

if Jerry Colangelo is the godfather, Jerry

26:26

West is the consigliari. Phil Jackson

26:29

is kind of like that too. Jay. He stays,

26:32

you know, up in the mountains a little more and

26:34

descends from the heavens when he gets back in

26:36

the game, but he seems to stay connected

26:38

in his own way. Yeah, and he's

26:41

also adding to his bank account as well.

26:43

But I think you're seeing the formation of

26:45

the culture though that that Jerry Colangelo

26:47

talked about, and the sense

26:50

that, Okay, if people like Jerry

26:52

West and these greats of the past, Michael

26:54

Jordan, even who isn't somebody that

26:56

jumps back into things and and stays involved

26:59

when when there isn't a paycheck

27:01

involved, If these people could still be

27:03

involved, I think it gave incentive to

27:05

the players that Jerry Colangelo was going to

27:07

seek to recruit, and Jerry Williams

27:09

was one of those players. For me, it was kind of a

27:11

no brainer. And I

27:14

just wanted to hoop. So summers are born

27:16

as it is, just working out and grinding by yourself

27:18

in the gym, so you need to be able to play

27:20

with with the best players in the world. You know.

27:23

It was something that I look forward to. That's funny

27:25

you and Collanjo had you still keep that University

27:27

of Illinois thing. He went there like fifty years before

27:30

that, man, But I didn't even know you'd realize

27:32

that, you know, Yeah, no, I Jerry

27:34

was kind of he was kind of frequently in and out of Illinois,

27:37

you know, and you know, popped in and would

27:39

would speak to us, and so, you

27:41

know, I was pretty aware of who he was, you know, throughout

27:44

the process. You're listening to Kobe

27:46

Lebron and the redeem Team.

27:48

We'll be back in a minute.

27:57

So another guy who was well aware of who Jerry

28:00

Colangelo was because he worked for him before,

28:02

was Jason Kidd, another point guard, and

28:04

he played for the Phoenix Suns, but that

28:06

relationship didn't end so well.

28:09

Jerry Colangelo basically wanted him

28:12

out and traded him to the New

28:14

Jersey at the time, nets that was at

28:16

Jerry Colangelo's requests. So I think

28:18

some of us were surprised that they could reunite

28:20

for this team. And to hear

28:23

Jason Kidd tell the story, he wasn't

28:25

quite sure that this was really happening when Colangelo

28:28

first reached out to him to see if he wanted to be a part

28:30

of this Olympic team. And I think I was hurt

28:33

um and oh four, so I couldn't participate

28:36

and so and things didn't

28:38

go well for us, and so I

28:40

thought if I ever got the opportunity.

28:42

I knew I was getting a little older and

28:44

there was going to go to the guys that deserve

28:47

to be there. But when Jerry gave

28:49

me a call and asked what I participate,

28:52

at first I thought he was joking, but he was

28:54

serious. And at anytime Jerry calls

28:56

to ask you to do something you

28:58

don't, there's no no. So I was very

29:00

honored for him to ask me to play. But didn't

29:03

he trade you? He

29:06

did trade me, uh, and I was

29:08

I was better about that trade

29:10

because I love Phoenix, I love playing for him,

29:13

but also the business of basketball.

29:15

Uh. As you know, you learned quickly

29:18

as you get older, things happen

29:20

and so but I knew Jerry

29:22

and Coach k were trying to fix Team

29:25

USA and put the best team

29:27

together, maybe not the top

29:29

twelve or thirteen players, but the best

29:31

team. And uh, I was just very again

29:34

honored that he asked me to participate in that. Are

29:36

you kidding when you said you were surprised?

29:39

Yeah, when you said you thought he was kidding,

29:42

I thought he was joking. Um, I thought

29:44

he was just trying to, you know, play a

29:46

little joke before he was gonna ask me to do

29:48

something else and so uh, but

29:51

when he asked me to be part

29:53

of Team USA, I really thought

29:55

he was joking because I looked at the team and the

29:57

team that everybody was talking about. You

29:59

know. Oh, I thought it was a rebranding of

30:02

Team USA. I thought it

30:04

was it was done with class.

30:07

Now, one of the better selection stories

30:09

comes from Carmelo Anthony. So

30:11

here's a young player who had just been embarrassed

30:13

in the two thousand four Olympics, lost

30:16

out in Rookie of the Year to Lebron James,

30:18

who he probably knows is going to overshadow

30:21

him his whole career. Carmello also

30:23

had a bad rep in some quarters. He

30:26

wouldn't really seem to know Jerry Colangelo

30:28

from Jerry Lewis, and what

30:30

would he give a crap about Mike Sawski

30:33

for he was only in college for one year.

30:35

But here's Carmelo Anthony. Yeah, Well, by

30:38

time Jerry came to us, came

30:40

to me personally, it was like, okay,

30:42

Like Jerry, I want to I want to be

30:45

a part of this. I mean you're acting a lot, like three

30:47

year commitments of this. That's a lot,

30:50

right, And but at that point

30:52

it was just like all right, Jerry, you know what, like I'm I'm

30:54

me personally, I'm giving you this

30:57

commitment, like I'm giving you myself

30:59

for the next three years. And you

31:01

know, once I committed to that and

31:03

understood the goal and

31:05

and and division for Team

31:07

USA, you know, Team USA basketball

31:10

and just the culture that was trying to be

31:12

created that Jerry was creating.

31:15

I brought into it. I brought

31:17

into it, and then you know other guys, other guys

31:19

that brought into it. So I think I was the last one

31:21

that he came to meet with. So it was

31:23

like, you know, I'm coming to you last,

31:25

like I'm I need your commitment. If you're gonna

31:27

be committed, we want you. If not, then

31:30

you know, I need you to let it. Let us know that now. So

31:33

you didn't have to call d Wade and Lebron

31:35

to see if they were in or did you

31:37

already know they were in when you committed

31:40

now, I mean they was all yeah, they Jerry had went

31:42

to them prior to like before me,

31:44

so that I already was hearing that they was then. So

31:47

I was just honest, I was just waiting on Jerry to you

31:49

know, I'm like with damn with Jerry at like Jerry

31:51

and coming to me like where is he

31:53

at? So by time

31:55

he came to me, it was like I was, I

31:57

was already in I was already committed. It

32:00

was Carmelo's eagerness to play that speaks

32:02

to the alliances that were formed

32:04

on this team and teaches us

32:07

maybe a little lesson that we shouldn't

32:10

rush to judgments about people, that

32:12

we should wait and make our own judgments,

32:14

which is what Jerry Colangelo did in

32:16

the case of Carmelo. I'm

32:18

really sensitive to this because you tend

32:20

to do that when you get older, which

32:23

I am, and you really have to be careful about

32:25

it. And I really credit a person

32:28

like Colangelo, who after all,

32:30

was playing college basketball back in the

32:32

nineteen fifties, being able

32:34

to do that, particularly in the case of Carmelo.

32:37

There was a bad taste in the mouth of many

32:39

regarding Carmelo, and

32:41

some people in basketball said I wouldn't waste

32:44

my time with him. So

32:46

in that first meeting with Carmelo, I

32:49

told them that, I said, I want you to know there

32:51

are a lot of people who have said, no,

32:55

you know, lack of character, blah blah

32:57

blah. He was stunned, shocked,

33:00

and I said, and I'll tell you how I feel,

33:02

how quite this slay clean for you? And

33:05

I'm I'm gonna watch you during the course

33:07

of this year and we'll talk. Well.

33:09

During the course of the year, I heard from him

33:11

three times where he called

33:13

me to say, how do you think I'm doing?

33:15

Is everything okay? And he was

33:18

playing well. He was really

33:20

working at it. And of course

33:23

in picking him, think about all he's accomplished

33:25

with USA Basketball, the

33:28

records, the winds.

33:31

He was a terrific international

33:33

player. And one thing Collengelo

33:36

had the benefit of this time was

33:38

that he did have the full availability

33:40

of Kobe Bryant. Remember, as we talked

33:42

about in a previous episode, Kobe

33:45

was unavailable in two thousand four because

33:47

he was uncertain about how his

33:50

sexual assault case was going to play out and

33:52

it was scheduled for trial in the summer of two

33:54

thousand four. Uh, they eventually resolved

33:56

it without it going to trial, but

33:59

he couldn't be certain of that in time to

34:01

give USA Basketball enough notification

34:04

that he could participate. He couldn't guarantee his

34:06

ability to participate. So that was two

34:08

thousand four and two thousand eight. That's all

34:10

resolved. It's all clear. So

34:13

he could get Kobe with no problem.

34:16

But there was someone else here he wanted as well,

34:18

and that was Lebron James. So I

34:22

actually centered myself in Chicago

34:25

because it's kind of a crossroads, and

34:27

I saw players coming and going. As

34:30

it turned out, met Lebron

34:32

at the Rich Carleton across the

34:34

street. And because I

34:36

stay at the highatt and

34:40

nine o'clock meeting in the lobby with

34:42

Lebron. At exactly nine

34:44

o'clock, the elevator door opened

34:46

and outstepped Lebron right

34:49

on time, and with

34:51

him, I was about halfway through my

34:53

my pitch, if you will. He said, I'm

34:55

in, I'm in. And

34:58

so what I since was

35:01

the guys were buying in, you know, and

35:03

that made me feel pretty good. Okay,

35:06

Jerry's gathered up some of us guys, but

35:08

the big question remains, will

35:11

they buy into Coachowski

35:14

a college coach? And that was

35:16

a relevant question because we hadn't

35:18

seen college coaches since we'd gone

35:21

to this model of NBA players,

35:24

and so you also have

35:26

more and more players who didn't go to college

35:28

at all. Right, so this roster was going to

35:30

be made up of guys like Kobe and

35:33

Lebron James and Dwight Howard

35:35

who had never played for a college coach, so they

35:37

didn't have that experience of a guy who's

35:39

in command. And could a

35:41

college coach adapt to this

35:43

situation where he doesn't have as much

35:46

control as he would in college. Maschewski

35:49

is Duke basketball, right, but Mischewsky

35:52

couldn't be USA basketball, not with these players,

35:54

not with their accomplishments, not with their egos.

35:56

So would he be able to adapt as well?

35:59

So will examine all these

36:01

questions and what approached coach

36:03

k decided on in the next episode.

36:06

Here's a taste. I know I probably

36:08

have to follow him out, but they

36:11

don't expect me to say, motherfucker right,

36:15

and you know when you're talking, just come

36:17

on your motherfucking like, we gotta

36:19

get this gold medal. And all of a

36:21

sudden, I wasn't this uh guy

36:24

from Duke in West Point, you

36:26

know how. It's more of the guy from

36:29

the inner city of Chicago, you know. So

36:32

that's it for this episode. I'm Jack McCallum,

36:34

Thanks for listening. I'm JA that day. It's

36:37

out next time on Kobe, Lebron and

36:39

the Redeem feat. The

36:49

Dream Team Tapes. Season two. Kobe

36:52

lebron and the Redeem Team is a production

36:54

of Diversion Podcasts in

36:56

association with I Heart Radio. For

36:59

more podcast for my Heart Radio, visit

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Podcasts for wherever you get

37:06

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37:09

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37:11

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37:14

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37:16

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37:21

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37:24

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37:26

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37:29

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37:32

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