0:14

Me and my Podcast. Is week we

0:16

ask even go in and Tricia cook

0:18

the team behind drive Away dolls. What's

0:20

the rumpus? Plus. We.

0:23

Talk to the director of new Pierce

0:25

Brosnan thriller Fast Charlie. Philip. Noise.

0:28

Noise. All that and

0:30

more on the movie Podcast that has

0:32

just arrived back from Sheffield and was

0:34

disappointed to find that the Fish and

0:36

Chip Shop that was once Sean Bean's

0:38

favorite and that offered not only a

0:40

Sean Bean meet feast and chips presumably

0:42

not made with actual Sean Bean but

0:44

also a bar a mere special of

0:46

chips, cheese and gravy top with Lord

0:48

of the Onion Rings. Is. Closed

0:51

permanently? Know

0:54

why? Ha.

0:57

Is it because I didn't call it the one ring? That.

1:01

Would be confusing. That would be worth it. Will be. Hello

1:05

Hard I considered welcome to the Emperor Podcast

1:07

We are in the studio. My.

1:09

Two colleagues have such lead the cunning.

1:11

This week we are fresh off the

1:13

train from Sheffield I were last night

1:15

we did another a triumphant live show

1:17

on earth and triumph in or was

1:20

a try Hollywood Reporter says triumphant do.

1:22

Boffo probably Buffalo Buffalo Box.

1:24

Office for Sasha. He has knicks, knicks, pick

1:26

sticks, mix legs effect. That as what we

1:29

were during last night and we were licks.

1:31

You know anything in oh god oh god

1:33

I will happen to the Travelogues days The

1:36

Travelodge Anyway I'm job of my two colleagues

1:38

of the to leave the coming of sadly

1:40

neither of them stayed in trouble us

1:42

military or Helena her as your or geek

1:45

Green hello James Dire a great big fucking

1:47

nerves are is also here. Hello An excuse

1:49

me if I feel sluggish Gene I'm suffering

1:51

from post Sheffield travelodge disorder whereby I

1:53

just feel. a bit scully or but i like

1:55

i'm willing shouts out to one of our regular listeners

1:58

who i ran into in the for of the Travelodge

2:00

just before the live show and he went, Oh, you're

2:02

James Dyer from the Empire Podcast. I went, Oh, hi, how

2:04

are you? And I said, Oh, great, are you here for

2:06

the show? Are you coming? And he just went, no. And

2:09

that was it. How did he say it? He didn't, to be

2:11

fair, he did not have a Sheffield accent, but I felt it,

2:13

which would be more appropriate. No, he didn't. It's

2:16

unlikely he had a Sheffield accent given that he was

2:18

staying in a Travelodge in Sheffield. Go for it, indicating

2:20

that he came from somewhere else. I see what you're

2:22

saying. But the thing is, so he came from somewhere

2:24

else, came all the way to Sheffield, stayed in a

2:26

Travelodge, where we were, doing a

2:28

show, who found in the Empire Podcast so much so

2:30

that he could identify us by sight and

2:32

wasn't coming to the show. I know. Wise

2:34

man to be honest. He has been dealt with.

2:36

He has. He's blacklisted. Oh no. He could have

2:39

turned the show from triumphant to mega triumphant. That's

2:41

right. According to Variety. Yeah. Giga

2:43

triumphant. Giga triumphant indeed. Mega triumphant versus

2:46

Giga triumphant. A Giga triumphant gig. It

2:48

was really fun. It was really fun.

2:50

We are now over 50% of

2:53

the way through our live

2:55

tour. Three gigs is a recommendation.

2:58

One day be finished. It will be

3:01

finished very, very soon. We have two

3:03

dates left folks of the evening with

3:05

the Empire Podcast tour in partnership, of

3:07

course, with M&Ms and we're going

3:09

to be in Dublin next week. Now tickets are very,

3:11

very nearly sold out for that. And when I say

3:13

nearly sold out, I think we're down to the last

3:15

20 or so, the

3:17

last 20 or so tickets. So

3:19

if you want to come and see us in Dublin,

3:22

it's going to be, ah, the crack's going to be

3:24

mighty, mighty crack. Can we not commit a

3:26

crack? I see my mighty crack. And

3:29

Dublin next week at the laughter lounge, that's

3:31

where we're going to be. Jesus, Mary and

3:33

Joseph will also be there. James

3:35

will be there. Helen will be there. Alex Godfrey will be

3:37

there from the Emperor Podcast. I don't know whether that is

3:39

an attraction or a

3:41

deterrent. But anyways, it's going to

3:43

be a lot of fun. And then a week after that, we're

3:46

going to be in Salford slash Manchester

3:48

rounding off the tour on March 28th.

3:51

And that's going to be an amazing show as

3:53

well. And tickets are selling very,

3:55

very fast for that also. So do please

3:58

do get on it should you wish. to come

4:00

and see us or just arrange a night out

4:02

in Manchester and then run into us in the

4:04

foyer and then tell us to our faces you're

4:07

not going to come to our show. That's always

4:09

fun. That's always a fun thing to do. But

4:11

yes, tickets for Lowe's are available via the venue

4:13

so the Sulfur keys for Sulfur or the Laughter

4:15

Lounge, don't laugh, in Dublin

4:18

next week or you can

4:20

go to ticketmaster.co.uk or you

4:22

can go to empireonline.com/pod tour.

4:25

Anyway, enough talking about Sheffield

4:27

and Manchester and Dublin and

4:29

tours and where people can buy tickets and all that sort of stuff.

4:32

Let's get into it. Let's get into a listener

4:34

question and this one comes on Twitter as they

4:36

all do because I'm still on Twitter, which is

4:39

Twitter not X, come on. Honestly, what

4:41

the hell? What is your newest favorite

4:44

movie as in the newest movie that's in your top

4:46

10? That is a good question.

4:48

Here's another. This is from queer Mercia who asked, you've actually

4:54

pronounced this correctly, didn't you, Helen? Mirthia.

4:57

Queer Mercia. We asked a question

4:59

a couple weeks ago. Do you think you'll

5:01

ever have a new favorite? Never. Never.

5:04

You think you'll never have a new favorite film? I'll never have a new favorite film

5:06

ever. A new favorite film of all time is Aliens? My favorite was because the thing

5:08

is it's not about the quality of the film. It's 100% about

5:11

the time you saw the film and what it means

5:13

to you. And I don't think it is possible to...

5:16

I wonder what you fell madly in love with somebody and

5:18

you saw like on your first date

5:20

with this amazing person, right? I went

5:22

to see June part two. No, you

5:24

go and see like June Messiah or

5:27

you go to see like Aliens that

5:29

James Cameron has returned to franchise and

5:31

now he's like Aliens. And it's like

5:33

a five star masterpiece like nailed off.

5:35

I mean, I'm just saying it could... I

5:37

think it is foolish to say that you'll never. No.

5:40

Afterwards you go back to the travel lodge

5:42

and you have the most mind blowing love

5:44

making of your life. In the reception. Oh

5:46

no. Because why

5:48

we were asked to leave. I'm enjoying

5:50

the fact we've known George you can't

5:52

cut that down. No,

5:57

I genuinely I am. I'm 100% laughing. my

6:00

life on the line certain that it is not

6:02

possible for my favourite film to be

6:04

displaced. Yeah, you're setting your ways though. I don't agree.

6:06

I just think the same with the favourite song as

6:08

well. I just don't believe. What's your favourite song? What's

6:11

my actual favourite song? I don't know what I have

6:13

one. I have a favourite album. What's your favourite album?

6:15

My favourite album is Ten by Peljan. That's a great

6:17

album. Yes,

6:21

but again it's because of the period of my life when

6:23

I used to listen to it and the memories that it

6:25

brings back and all these various things. But that Aliens was

6:27

a seminal film for me as well as the original Star

6:29

Wars. They are part of my DNA. They are woven into

6:32

the fabric of my being and nothing can ever

6:34

displace them ever. Good to see you've

6:36

got an open mind. Helen. Do

6:38

you think you might have a new favourite one

6:40

day? Yes. And what's the most recent film that

6:42

has entered your top ten? In my top ten, possibly

6:46

Iron Game, probably Hunt for the Wilderpeople. Those

6:49

are both up there and pretty high. Good choices. Yeah,

6:53

I don't really believe in

6:55

lists is my actual issue with this question.

6:58

If I love something, I don't feel the need to

7:00

rank it. I assemble a top ten when I have

7:02

to and I name favourite films when I have to,

7:05

but it's the most amorphous blob of a

7:07

group of things I love. What's your favourite

7:09

song? These Arms of

7:11

Mine by Otis Redding, let's say. But then there's about

7:13

a thousand songs and you know, the number two spot

7:15

as it were. Which favourite album? 12

7:20

years we've been doing this podcast, we've never asked this question. It's true. I

7:26

don't know. I'd

7:28

have to think. It

7:30

might be something like Rutland Hum or Josh Itchy or something

7:32

like that actually. And

7:36

Pearl Jam's plan actually genuinely would be up there. She's

7:38

bothering up the Irish. Ready

7:41

for next week? I don't need

7:43

to. Busting out your clan ad CDs. Yeah, trying

7:46

to give little known Irish back and you two a bit

7:48

of a leg up there. Okay,

7:51

this is interesting because I do have

7:53

this sometimes with music in that it's

7:56

very rare. I think you get set in your ways

7:58

musically very, very early. on in your

8:00

life and your favorite bands tend to be

8:02

your favorite bands. It's very rare that a

8:04

new band or new artist will gay

8:07

crash my top 10 of all

8:09

time. I guess the most recent artist

8:13

who gay crashed my top 10, because I'm very, very closed off

8:15

to new music, would be

8:18

Idyllwild and Ronnie Wimble and people like

8:21

that. And I actually

8:23

sometimes I'm scared of new music. No,

8:27

not as in, you know, I'm

8:29

not even going to see Dua Lipa, I make the sign

8:31

of the cross. I don't do that. But

8:34

what I mean is if an artist that I

8:36

love brings out a new album, I'm sometimes actively scared

8:38

of it. There are a couple of artists I'm not

8:40

going to name them. There are a couple of my

8:42

favorite bands who have produced new music in the last

8:44

three, four years, and I haven't listened to it because

8:46

I'm scared it will be terrible. But

8:48

I think you have to keep your mind open to

8:51

new things. Otherwise you do wither and die. But I'm

8:53

not like that with films whatsoever.

8:55

Every day is Christmas Eve. Every film has

8:57

the potential to be my second favorite of

8:59

all time because like James, I'm afraid my

9:01

number one is locked in. It is Evil

9:03

Dead 2 and that ain't ever changed. I

9:06

don't want to make a big political thing

9:08

of this, but I do also. I'm gonna

9:11

like this idea that, you know, yes, of

9:13

course the things we saw as young people

9:16

shape us and mold us and set

9:18

our tailors to two degrees and bind

9:20

the galaxy together. But like that, that

9:22

kind of thinking that nothing better is

9:25

possible is not what we're saying. That's

9:27

not what we're saying. No, no, no.

9:29

Nothing better for me is possible. That

9:31

thinking is what leads

9:34

to this endless churn of

9:36

remakes, re-quals, you know,

9:38

and re-hashes of stuff that we already

9:40

know we love. It's what leads legacy

9:42

musicians to have all of this kind

9:45

of economic power and new acts to

9:47

struggle. And I'm not saying like it's

9:49

obviously not because James loves aliens. It

9:52

might be. That's not the problem. But it is because,

9:54

you know, we all have to be open to new

9:56

things and we all have to try to give people...

10:00

people to have. I know, but like, I know that

10:02

this is, this is as old as humanity. This is

10:04

not a modern problem. But I think the, the, the

10:07

influence of the algorithm and the influence of the

10:09

way our culture currently works

10:12

on our preferences could

10:14

be disastrous. And that's, I guess, maybe what worries me

10:16

a little bit when we get too close. So what

10:18

I'm saying is I'm not like that with film. No,

10:20

I know. I get it. I'm very open to new

10:22

experiences with film. Yes, Evil Dead 2 is

10:24

pretty much set in the stones, my E as my favorite film

10:26

of all time. But I want

10:28

that experience where I come out of

10:30

the cinema walking on air, dancing

10:33

with joy. I cannot wait to see it

10:35

again. And Wonka, I had it with Wonka

10:37

where I was just like, Oh my God, I'm transported.

10:39

I'm lifted. And this is

10:41

one of my favorite experiences in the cinema in

10:43

a long, long time. And I want that every

10:46

single time I walk in and do I get

10:48

it? Do I fuck? Anyway, but

10:50

I think there are, I think music is

10:53

more pronounced in this regard than film, but I

10:55

think they're both affected by it. But it's not

10:57

just about, you know, the content

10:59

of the art. It's about the emotional

11:01

payload that it brings with it. I think music very

11:04

much so this is not about what

11:06

it sounds like aesthetically, it's how it makes you feel.

11:08

And so it all depends on the

11:10

periods in your life. And most of the intense formative

11:12

periods of your life will happen during that kind of

11:15

adolescent period. But for me, so the weird thing,

11:17

so in terms of

11:21

artists who have kind of sneaked in and I'm very

11:23

resistant to new music, the Taylor Swift thing that we

11:25

talk about part of that is because when I listened

11:27

to Evermore, it was during that first year of the

11:29

pandemic. And then, oh, sorry, Folklore, I

11:32

said when Folklore came out was the summer of the

11:34

pandemic 2020. And then Evermore was the winter. And

11:36

that's pretty much all I listened to during

11:38

the pandemic, which is an incredibly emotionally intense

11:40

period of time, probably the most

11:42

intense period of time I've had since

11:45

my formative years because it was unprecedented.

11:47

And I think because of that, those

11:49

albums have such intense emotional recall for

11:51

me, because I listened to them during

11:53

that time. And that's why her music kind

11:56

of almost sits alongside the music that I

11:58

loved when I was growing up because it

12:00

has that same component to it. So I mean,

12:02

I'm thinking whether any films I want to in

12:04

that period. Maybe you need a global catastrophe to

12:07

open your mind. Yeah, I need that. I

12:10

would say people like Lizzo and Janelle

12:12

Monae have definitely gatecrushed my sort of

12:14

favourite artists in the last couple of

12:16

years. Even nearly Dua Lipa actually, she's

12:18

got some banging tunes. I can love her. I'm

12:20

very excited that she's a glistenberry this year. But

12:23

I do think

12:25

like a lot of comfort

12:27

music is what you listen to as a teenager. I did

12:29

a lot of soul music and stuff during that time. And

12:32

you too, yes. Because they hadn't given everyone

12:34

a free album and alienated them for lying them that

12:36

time. Fostered upon them. Take the free thing, fuck you.

12:39

So I do

12:42

get that. And I'm not saying, I understand

12:45

why we love the things we have loved

12:47

forever. Because I do too.

12:49

I love The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. I love

12:51

The Lion, The Witch and The Warder. Even though

12:53

I haven't read it in a lot of years,

12:56

they're part of who I am. But at the

12:58

same time, I want to believe that a book

13:00

could come out tomorrow and blow my mind to

13:02

that degree. I want to believe that there

13:04

is a new alien somewhere

13:07

down the line that is going

13:09

to blow me away. That's a really

13:11

interesting point because my feeling towards books is very

13:14

different. My favourite

13:16

books, many of them, I have, in

13:18

fact, all of my favourite books, I would say, I have

13:20

read in the last 20 years. And

13:22

one of them, which is Empire of the

13:25

Vampire, I've read very recently. So

13:28

I think my narrow-mindedness

13:30

doesn't extend to my literary

13:32

intake, which is curious. All

13:36

right. Okay. Well, let's maybe move on.

13:39

I will say, I just remembered Priscilla Ahn,

13:41

who's an amazing singer-songwriter,

13:44

has getting crashed maybe, my top 15.

13:47

Check her out if you

13:49

haven't already. Priscilla Ahn. She's

13:51

really, really great. Anyway, this

13:53

comes from Daniel Watkins, Daniel

13:56

The W on Twitter. This week's

13:58

pod will be out on the Ides of March. Yes

14:00

indeed of March which is

14:03

a Ryan Gosling film? What

14:05

is the best Ryan Gosling

14:07

film? A. While.

14:10

I mean he wasn't any vilma of splayed

14:12

hundred twenty Forty nine. So that far as

14:14

other for me. Okay, but what is the

14:16

best? The best thrive. No thanks. I'm. I'm.

14:19

Zero of Islam on and I guess. It's

14:23

kind of over seven am. I have

14:25

prepared to a quick. Have

14:27

some ahead. Top Ten: Gonna Five

14:29

Autonomous Erik Larson The real goal

14:31

at number five. Sounds crazy stupid

14:33

Love Very good. Shout Dries. The.

14:36

Nice guys, excellent cell and I'm about

14:38

to blow your minds. Barbie.

14:41

I'm also a good show. A hit and miss.

14:44

The Notebook. I. Did not. I know a

14:46

notebook girl. I don't know what I missed. I

14:48

missed the boat or I miss that. The

14:51

rain storm or miss my house building hundred

14:53

and the A mole skin is a citizen.

14:55

Thought I yeah yeah I'd I'd like. I

14:57

saw it as a after a lot the

14:59

hype had already happened and I was that

15:01

like seems fine. But. It's never

15:03

been. One of my big sunni

15:05

romances. So yeah, Man. To

15:08

my com which again. But. Unless

15:10

as by I think like him best in

15:12

poking fun at himself notice like I do

15:14

like did love. Drive at the time and he's

15:16

super cool and and super like. Restrained.

15:19

And and drop my of and I thought it was.

15:21

I really really enjoyed it. But. When.

15:23

You think the absolute minimum? almost a new but

15:26

but him in comedy mode and the nice guys

15:28

in Barbie I think is really hard to be

15:30

a nazi. Crazy you plug as well. This is

15:32

very much sympathy for them symbols. And.

15:35

Of and Msm on or less that him he is

15:37

free from never heard of as opposed to like Vibrant

15:39

which which not and I know we have believe Empire

15:42

magazine called it the film of the any of that

15:44

came out the year of are loads or was it

15:46

on something and I mean I love it I do

15:48

love it but I the has been a quite the

15:50

backlash against it since and I think it's now moment

15:53

to held in the Rebel but it made ones with

15:55

Stephen that we don't have massively seems to regret doing

15:57

it. I think he my monthly rate watching

15:59

that. It were in

16:01

the item thing he likes playing and someone else is

16:03

Paula he didn't like existing and someone else as well. I

16:05

think he wishes he did done or something. That.

16:08

Yeah. Juvenile. Five General terms

16:10

of identified have a number subsides.

16:12

Blade Runner would definitely be in

16:14

their of the nice guys. Might

16:16

be my number one. I would

16:19

say Lala Land would probably be

16:21

in there as well. Priced

16:24

you as with hundred some be in there

16:26

too. Big shorts, Is

16:28

very very good with a sword. so year

16:30

a good and is very good. Some possibly

16:32

that might be in there and a half

16:35

nelson. anyone love half nelson know? but I

16:37

could go for our young Hercules. Said

16:40

Mark. A

16:44

specific it's nosiness and snow Xena, he didn't

16:46

on the infernal scare. For a half they'll

16:48

suffer. Couple of young voted for young economic

16:50

slump less been around for so long. The

16:52

he has. He is I think older than

16:54

time, usually forty three or forty four which

16:57

is wilde. but he's been around as a

16:59

as a movie star for about twenty years

17:01

now and remember the titans and move on

17:03

to remember those. Allow

17:06

somebody didn't listen to the. Actual

17:08

title of the. Film and updates and he

17:10

was. He was amazing! My skis here. He

17:13

was. He's been around for many many years that

17:15

as movie stars as Nashua Above the Line. Hey.

17:18

I'm Brian Guzzling. Don't see this

17:20

movie is a minute. Ah,

17:24

He has new book was a break yeah for

17:26

him but Murder by Numbers Two thousand and Two.

17:28

Remember The Titans. Were. To the numbers

17:30

he's he's Only. And the killers in the

17:32

Him: Michael Pitt, The Family Brian Access A

17:34

Sandra Bullock thriller. Ah and and Half Nelson.

17:36

Fracture Years in Fractured. That's a good film.

17:38

We read the Whole Blood to add some

17:40

that. the one where he's and Nazi no.

17:43

No. On this, I've completely misread the film.

17:45

I know he is a a lawyer. He goes,

17:47

he goes. He has a battle of wits with

17:49

Anthony Hopkins. Anthony Hopkins kills his wife. Had to

17:52

be in the movie. busy was I? But it's

17:54

of my life. And. durango to say

17:56

i'm gonna put you in prison for murder your

17:58

wife are going to die another day Hoplitz is

18:00

like, well, where's your evidence? Oh, your bloody evidence,

18:02

boy. Oh, even though I have admitted to it.

18:05

And then they have like a battle of wits.

18:07

And then there's like, well, reversals and twists and

18:09

stuff. And the thing is, he at the time,

18:11

he was like, I guess in

18:13

his late 20s. And

18:16

he just looked a little bit too young to

18:18

be a crusading DA or assistant

18:20

DA or whatever he was going to be

18:23

in that. But it's a good film.

18:25

Gregory Hoplitz, who directed Primal Fear. Blue

18:27

Valentine, bit of Rumpy, Rumpy Pumpy, Raunchy,

18:29

Rumpy Pump. It's very good, but it's

18:31

a little bit sad for the top five I was. Yeah. Drive,

18:34

the best film in which Ryan Gosling beats some of

18:36

the death of a lift. That's

18:38

fun. It's no, I mean, it doesn't do it the

18:40

way Cap does, let's be honest. Yeah, I can't do

18:43

it. What are you lifting? Yeah, lift five. We should

18:45

do the thing. I mean, look, I mean, Drive is

18:47

good. It is good. I just did not love it

18:49

anywhere near as much, really

18:51

anyone else. What

18:54

about his man duology

18:56

of first man and then the

18:58

Gray Man? He took four years off after first

19:00

man. In fairness,

19:02

first man feels like it lasted four years,

19:04

so I can feel why. But first

19:07

man and then the Gray Man. First man, make me

19:09

a Gray Man. I

19:11

enjoyed the Gray Man. It's quite forgettable, but it's a lot of fun. Chris

19:13

Evans is so much fun in that. Yeah, it's

19:16

a skill. I like it. Yeah, it felt like

19:18

a proper studio film at a

19:20

time where we weren't getting very many of them. I enjoyed

19:22

it for that. It feels apt

19:24

we're talking about him this week, right? Because he won

19:26

the Oscars, even though he didn't win an Oscar. He

19:28

won the Oscars without winning an Oscar. Yeah. I

19:31

mean, for his best regional song performance for I'm

19:33

Just Ken, which was, I

19:35

think, better than any of the actual nominees

19:37

for Best Picture this year, including

19:39

Barbie. Yeah, so the performance of I'm Just

19:41

Ken at this year's Oscars should win Best

19:43

Picture at next year's Oscars. No, it should

19:45

have won Best Picture at this year's Oscars.

19:47

They should have been able to very, very

19:50

quickly go, Best

19:52

Picture this year was Brian Goulton's performance

19:54

of I'm Just Ken. My I

19:56

see. It was my

19:59

I see. run

20:01

Gosling, I'm just Ken. And

20:06

God bless all the other Kens for turning up for

20:08

four of them. Kingsley

20:10

Benadyr, Simu Liu, Shoulda

20:13

Gotwa, Who

20:17

turned up to the Oscars in body armour and I

20:19

love him. He's a very cool dress.

20:22

What do you expect it to happen? It's

20:24

just a cool guys, it's called

20:27

fashion. Okay, if you

20:29

say so, am I top five? We've

20:31

had Helens, we've had James after

20:33

a fashion. I tell you what's not

20:35

going to be on there, only God forgives. Only

20:37

Chris forgets. Never forgive, never forget.

20:41

Alright, at five, at

20:43

five, the big short. Great

20:48

film, he's very very funny in it.

20:50

There's a commonality here. He's

20:52

very very funny in most of these. Number

20:54

four, La La

20:57

Land. Yes, another day

20:59

of sun. Number three,

21:01

Barbie. Far

21:05

too low. Number two,

21:08

I've completely miscounted. Number

21:11

two, I might have to put the grey man

21:13

in number two. Oh Jesus, help us all. Number

21:17

two, you know what, I'm going to redo that.

21:19

Number five, drive, drive five. Five

21:23

and drive, number four, Barbie. Number

21:26

three, yes, I've changed my mind. Number three,

21:28

La La Land. No. Number

21:31

two, the big short. Number

21:34

one, the nice guys

21:36

in which he is legitimately God

21:39

level. Funny, just

21:41

so so good. Notably, we didn't discuss

21:44

the eyes of March. Anyone want to?

21:46

It's not very good. It's

21:48

fine. I would

21:50

have to have a real run up to

21:52

remember what the plot was. It's dirty politics. I

21:56

think he thinks he's the one out winning people. And

22:00

then he gets out with it. Is it something like that?

22:02

Number six on your list. So basically what we're on. It

22:04

would be lower than that, but yeah, you're fine. All right.

22:07

Let's move on. Let's move on. If you want to

22:09

have your question read out on the Emperor podcast,

22:11

you can get in touch with me on Twitter.

22:13

I'm at Chris Hewitt. You can slide into my

22:15

DMS. You can reply to any of my tweets

22:17

once you stop laughing, of course, or any of

22:19

my panicked shout outs, usually on a Thursday at

22:21

the moment, usually on a Thursday when we're on

22:23

a train, uh, on the way home from wherever

22:26

we have just been the night before. All

22:28

right. Should we have a guest? Yeah. All

22:31

right. Bear in mind that one of these guests hasn't happened yet.

22:34

Uh, although I said that last week with Dwan Dawa,

22:36

Dwan Dawa, and it was really, really fun. And it

22:38

happened in the end. It was really, really fun. So

22:40

we have Philip noise who hasn't happened yet. And

22:42

may not happen. Or we

22:45

can have Ethan Cohen and Trisha cook who

22:47

have happened. Yeah. Have Ethan Karen and Trisha

22:49

Kirk. All right. Let's have Ethan Cohen and

22:51

Trisha cook, Ethan Cohen. You know him of

22:54

course, as one half of the Cohen brothers,

22:56

uh, the brothers called Cohen, Joel Cohen and

22:58

Ethan Cohen who between them wrote, produced and

23:00

directed some of the greatest movies in the

23:03

history of American cinema. We could do a

23:05

Cohen brothers ranking right now, but frankly, we

23:07

do not have the time. Uh,

23:10

but what's your favorite con brothers movie? Helen go. Hell's

23:12

easy. That's not

23:14

saying that's what's in the same. Fuck.

23:17

No, no, no, then fine. Whatever.

23:21

Not much better, but it's fine. I'll accept it. You

23:24

know, for kids, um, and all that

23:26

sort of stuff. But it, hell, see, really

23:28

hell Caesar. Are you on? I love it.

23:32

What, what is wrong with you? Oh,

23:34

it's so good. It's so funny. So

23:37

many bits. Uh,

23:39

the dance sequence with Channing,

23:41

Chanel, Chanel, um, the mermaid

23:44

sequence, the comparative religion scene

23:46

cracks me up. The,

23:48

um, the, the, the

23:50

cleanly trying to understand communism is

23:53

amazing. I do also love a brother. Where

23:55

are they? Yeah. You were, what do you say?

23:57

I'm an intolerable cruelty. Um, I didn't hate

23:59

it. Quite like it. James,

24:02

favourite Coon Brothers movie? Big Lebowski, not even

24:04

close. Alright, excellent stuff. That

24:08

was less controversial. That is the correct answer

24:10

we made. It's not the correct answer. It

24:13

is the 100% correct answer, Chris. The correct

24:15

answer, Helen, is Burn After Reading. Stop it!

24:19

Stop laughing at me at my choices. Shoots after

24:21

watching. What? How dare

24:23

you? How fucking dare you? I

24:25

love Burn After Reading, but best

24:27

Coon Brothers movie is probably Miller's

24:29

Crossing. That's like your opinion, man.

24:34

Anyway, Ethan Coon and Joel

24:36

Coon, they made all those amazing movies together,

24:39

and Hell Caesar as well. And

24:41

then after many, many years together, they've decided

24:43

to go their separate ways creatively for a

24:45

little bit. And Joel Coon went off and

24:48

made the tragedy of Macbeth. And

24:50

then Ethan Coon has gone off and made, well,

24:52

a Coon Brothers

24:54

movie. Driveaway Dolls, which

24:56

is about two girls, two lesbians,

24:59

who embarked upon a road trip

25:03

and get involved with a bunch of narrative wells

25:05

and criminals and people who think they belong

25:09

in a Coon Brothers movie. But he has

25:11

not just made this movie by himself, he has

25:13

made this movie in tandem with his wife Trisha

25:15

Cook. John Nugent, I believe it

25:17

was. He sent along on

25:19

Zoom recently to have a chat with

25:21

Ethan Coon and Trisha Cook about a

25:23

very bizarre, very funny movie. Here

25:26

it is. Enjoy the interview not the movie. Enjoy

25:29

the interview. With

25:33

Ethan Coon and Trisha Cook. We are

25:35

thrilled and honored to have Ethan Coon and

25:37

Trisha Cook on the Empire Podcast. Welcome. How

25:40

are you both? Good. How are

25:42

you? Very good. Thank you. How

25:45

is it doing days like this for the two of

25:47

you? I mean, for listeners who don't know, you know,

25:49

you're obviously husband and wife and also creative collaborators. Do

25:52

you work well together doing stuff like this? Stuff

25:55

like this, you mean interviews, promoting

25:57

the movie? Yeah. Uh, yeah.

26:00

Yeah. Sorry. It's

26:02

been... I mean, this is the first time I've

26:04

done anything like this with Ethan, but, you know,

26:07

I mean, we get on well

26:09

and we kind of enjoy each other's humor.

26:13

So I

26:15

think that we have fun, you know,

26:18

doing these interviews because we get to do

26:20

them together. It's not as much fun when we have to

26:22

do them alone. Yeah. You know, it's

26:24

a weird thing doing interviews for a movie because

26:27

either you talk to the journalist or whatever and

26:29

it's... It can be really

26:31

stimulating. Either you kind of have a human

26:33

conversation or for some reason you don't get

26:35

each other and you go, whoa, that

26:37

was a little grim. But

26:41

generally it's, these have been good. This

26:43

has been good. We go, okay, we're

26:45

actually talking to somebody. Yeah. For

26:48

the majority of them, it's been, you

26:50

know, very pleasurable. Yeah. Well,

26:52

yeah, we'll hopefully make sure that this

26:54

conversation is not too grim or keep

26:56

the grim levels at a

26:59

moderate rate. Yeah. You

27:01

have that stuffed animal behind you, you know,

27:03

it's very soothing. Oh yeah. Yeah.

27:06

The listeners can't see. This is like a Star Wars toy.

27:08

This is a porg. I mean, it's

27:11

very... I'm actually slightly embarrassed to have that in

27:13

short. I should have got rid of that

27:15

bit. Oh, it's perfect.

27:17

It's very comforting. You got Trisha. You lost

27:20

me there. Okay. But yeah,

27:22

I mean, I guess you guys have worked together for

27:24

a long time, right? Trisha,

27:30

you've been an editor for the

27:33

Cone Films for a while. So

27:35

does it all blur together? Do

27:37

you like talk shop at

27:39

the breakfast table or do you guys kind

27:42

of keep church and state? Yeah,

27:45

church and state for sure, which

27:47

should be kept, you know, everywhere,

27:49

certainly in this

27:52

country, separation. Yeah,

27:54

no, we kind of leave work

27:56

at work. And

28:00

I mean, you know, we've been in a

28:04

relationship for over 30 years. So

28:06

we have a lot of other things

28:09

that kind of occupy

28:11

our time and minds and,

28:13

you know, easy to talk about. But

28:18

in the moment, we're

28:20

making another movie and

28:23

kind of promoting this movie. So it

28:26

seems a little all consuming. What

28:28

was your collaboration like before

28:31

this movie? Because, you know, you've worked

28:33

on many films together, I

28:35

assume with the mysterious

28:37

Roderick James, right? What

28:41

was that process like? You

28:44

know, weirdly, kind of like all our

28:46

other, well Trish can

28:48

speak about her other work with

28:50

other directors, but I don't know.

28:52

For me, it's like all our collaborations

28:55

with other people who work on our

28:57

movies, you go, okay, I kind of

28:59

understand and enjoy working with this person

29:01

and it's pretty easy and comfortable. In

29:04

the case of me and Joel and Trish, and in

29:06

the case of the directors of

29:08

photography we've worked with, it's all pretty,

29:11

there are a lot of familiar faces and it's

29:13

all pretty easy. Easy and

29:15

stimulating because they're interesting people, you

29:17

know. Yeah, I mean, working

29:19

with Joel and Ethan on

29:22

past projects is different for me than

29:24

working with other directors because, you

29:26

know, they're, I mean, they're two of

29:28

them and they're family. So there's

29:30

a familiarity that doesn't exist

29:33

with other directors. But as

29:36

an editor, usually, you know, you're spending

29:38

so much intense time with someone on

29:40

a daily basis for, you know, 10,

29:44

12 hours sometimes a day that, you

29:47

know, you come to know the

29:49

other person and you come to kind of

29:51

understand their way of thinking. With Joel and

29:53

Ethan, cutting wise, you know,

29:56

I was usually cutting half

29:58

of the movie or you know,

30:00

to break up the scenes

30:02

and I would cut some and they would cut some and then

30:05

we would put them all together and that

30:07

certainly is not the case on other films

30:09

that I've cut where you kind of have

30:11

to, you know, have a vision. Not that

30:13

you don't have a vision working with them, but you're

30:16

only working on specific scenes

30:19

at a time and then, you know,

30:21

kind of seeing how they all work

30:23

together. Yeah, yeah.

30:25

And then with Drive Away Dolls,

30:28

which am I right in

30:30

thinking this has been 20 years sort of bubbling

30:32

in the background to get to this point? Yes.

30:35

Yeah, that's true. We

30:37

wrote it, yeah, 20, 20

30:39

odd years ago. Tried to get it

30:42

made then and didn't succeed. Tried to get it made

30:44

with a friend of ours, another

30:46

director, Alison Anders, and

30:48

did manage too. So we thought, oh, all

30:51

right, that's too bad. We set it aside

30:53

and then took it up again a couple

30:55

of years ago and we thought, well, maybe

30:57

we should try and make it ourselves and

30:59

we rewrote it some

31:02

and proceeded to make the

31:04

movie. Yeah. And

31:06

did you start with the title? Did you

31:08

start with Drive Away Dykes? Was it originally?

31:11

Yes. Yeah, we started with the title

31:13

and thought it was good and it

31:16

seemed like it would be a fun movie to write.

31:19

So we did. And it

31:21

was a fun movie to write and, you

31:23

know, kind of to come up with all of

31:25

the, you know, just kind

31:28

of silly, you

31:30

know, absurd ideas that we could. It was

31:32

like Trish was sitting in a bar and

31:34

it was like, you know, Thomas

31:37

Edison all of a sudden thinking,

31:39

oh, a light bulb, artificial light.

31:41

Yeah, I've always likened

31:44

the Drive Away Dykes to, you

31:46

know, the invention of the light

31:48

bulb. Alexander

31:50

Graham Bell had just hit her. She

31:52

gathered it out of the atmosphere and

31:55

she came home really excited and said,

31:57

Drive Away Dykes. And I went, oh, wow.

32:02

It's actually kind of true with me. We went

32:04

far out. It's

32:06

too good an idea to not write the

32:08

movie that would go with that title. Yeah,

32:11

I can't take sole credit. I was with

32:13

a friend and we were kind of batting

32:15

ideas around on our third vodka.

32:19

I'm not sure who's I think,

32:21

but it was a collaboration. Yeah,

32:24

it's such a good title. I mean, obviously you've

32:26

ended up with Driveaway Dolls, but in the film

32:28

at the end, it's revealed to

32:30

be Driveaway Dykes. Do we consider this,

32:33

in your mind, is that the real

32:35

title and Driveaway Dolls? There's

32:39

a square title, we add Driveaway Dolls,

32:41

but we disavow it. In our minds,

32:43

it's Driveaway Dykes. And the only title we

32:45

use at home. Okay, okay. I

32:47

mean, it's such a good title and it

32:49

really speaks to the tone of the film,

32:52

which is so fun

32:54

and goofy. I

32:56

laughed so consistently through this film.

33:01

I had such a good time with it. How did you

33:03

land that tone in the

33:05

writing and in the making of it?

33:08

Well, it's all implicit in the title.

33:13

How did we land the tone? I don't know. You

33:15

just try to be faithful to your idea of what

33:17

the movie is. It's kind of trashy,

33:19

kind of exploitationy, kind

33:21

of, I don't know, a little

33:24

transgressive and just fun. It's got to go. It's

33:27

got to go. You know, we. It's got to... So

33:32

you come up with ideas that

33:34

you see, like a basement full

33:36

of soccer girls. Okay, that sounds...

33:40

Yeah, that's where they would go in this

33:42

kind of movie. Yeah, and all of the

33:44

girls would be lesbians, which would never happen.

33:47

But we gave ourselves license to

33:50

kind of create that world, you

33:52

know, a world in which ideally

33:57

everyone was queer. like

34:00

that would be my you know happy

34:03

fantasy world. And also

34:05

I mean as you sort of alluded it's

34:07

a very much a queer film it's a

34:09

lesbian film I would say probably

34:12

very horny film you know a lot of

34:14

the characters are just trying to get laid.

34:16

I mean was that just something you missed

34:18

from seeing in movies? Yes

34:21

yeah I mean

34:24

not not queer necessarily because you

34:27

know there's queer cinema but queer

34:30

cinema that's kind of light-hearted and

34:32

fun and promiscuous and allowing the

34:36

female characters to be promiscuous which

34:38

isn't something I'd seen a lot of

34:41

in film and you know

34:43

to be carefree in that

34:46

regard. And you know all

34:48

respect to you John and your little

34:50

Star Wars toy there. I

34:53

ask you what character in Star Wars is

34:55

horny? It's a really good question

34:58

and the answer is I think none of

35:00

them. Yeah exactly serving

35:03

an underserved audience man. Almost

35:08

horny Star Wars fans. They

35:11

need an outlet they need an outlet. It's

35:14

true yeah I realize after

35:16

doing all of this press that

35:18

you know I've just become because

35:20

you know and there's a lot

35:22

of talk about the time I

35:24

spend in bars and my promiscuity

35:26

and so heavy drinking you

35:28

know sex-driven

35:31

person. Sometimes it's hard

35:33

to look at yourself. Yeah I'm looking at yourself

35:35

in the mirror. Yeah I mean

35:37

Ethan it's been a while since we've you know

35:39

you've it's been a few years since your last

35:41

like feature film and

35:43

I've read somewhere you've gone a little bored of filmmaking

35:46

is it like is that still the case or with

35:48

all the stalker dildos are you a bit more having

35:51

fun making films again? So

35:54

that put me right back on my feet.

35:57

No it wasn't

35:59

that I was bored with it. The last

36:01

couple of movies I made with Joel were just

36:03

very hard, I mean, in terms of production, difficult

36:06

movies. So they

36:08

were not as much fun as, I don't

36:10

know, like I, it was less fun than

36:12

it had been. So I took a little

36:14

break. But this was just

36:16

like a huge amount of fun. I mean, you

36:19

know, I, we just liked

36:21

everybody who worked on it. We really liked

36:23

the actors. It

36:26

was just fun. That's kind of

36:28

what has rejuvenated me. And

36:31

working with Trish, that being no, I mean,

36:33

I mean, in this capacity, that was fun.

36:35

It was all just fun.

36:38

Don't want to overuse the word, but

36:40

it was fun. Yeah, that's great. I

36:43

mean, you really feel it from from watching it.

36:45

Was it was it a hard thing to put

36:47

together because it's a road movie or it's obviously

36:49

lots of locations, there's lots of zany

36:52

antics happening. Yeah,

36:54

the road movie, the location movie thing is, we

36:58

actually shot the movie because the logistics

37:00

are so difficult of traveling and shooting

37:03

multiple locations. You basically don't to the

37:05

extent possible, you shoot it all in

37:07

one place. We shot the movie in

37:10

Pittsburgh. So different parts of Pittsburgh with

37:12

a little art direction stood in for

37:14

different parts of the East Coast, which

37:16

is where the, you know, the trip

37:19

travels. Some of

37:21

the road footage was

37:24

shot in Florida and

37:26

Georgia and Pennsylvania. Yeah,

37:29

just some of the plates, the backgrounds

37:31

for the car stuff. When they're driving,

37:33

we kind of went and

37:36

found stuff in those locations to shoot,

37:38

but all of the actual locations were,

37:40

you know, uh,

37:43

all the foreground locations were

37:45

Pittsburgh. Right. Based on

37:47

this experience, it sounds like you've both

37:49

enjoyed yourselves. Is there going to be

37:52

more collaborations like this? I was heard

37:54

there was maybe the first new trilogy. Yeah.

37:58

Lesbian exploitation trilogy. Yeah,

38:00

that's me in the lesbian

38:03

B movie trilogy. Yeah,

38:05

we're we're in

38:07

pre production for the second

38:10

one, honey, don't we

38:12

don't you know, we don't have the

38:15

third movie fully written yet

38:17

but if you do to

38:19

your obliged to say there are three, yeah,

38:22

it's got to be a trilogy because I

38:24

don't know what's it. There isn't even

38:26

a word for two of them. You got to do your

38:28

obliged to do the soul figure

38:30

that out. But yeah, nothing connects

38:32

them except the fact that their

38:35

genre films in there, you know,

38:38

have lesbian the lead characters,

38:40

they're not the

38:42

sequels or you know,

38:44

yeah, there's no connected

38:46

characters, no grand ball

38:48

zachian design. Well, there is

38:50

Margaret quality back for the for this next one

38:53

as well. Yeah, he

38:55

is. Yeah. No

38:57

one. Yeah, it's a detective story.

39:00

She plays a detective named honey

39:02

O'Donohue. Anything

39:04

are you gonna I'm sorry to

39:06

ask you this. I'm sure this is a question

39:08

you get a lot but it but you and

39:10

Joel working on something again, we'll obviously be thrilled

39:12

to see you guys.

39:15

Yeah, we were we wrote something together

39:17

me and Joel wrote something together this

39:19

past summer that hopefully we'll do after

39:24

after me and Trish do this. Yeah, we

39:27

never kind of plan too far

39:29

in advance and especially now that

39:31

we might drop dead in

39:34

any decade or any words. But

39:37

yeah, you know, we've written a

39:39

movie and hopefully we'll Joel and

39:41

I have and hopefully we'll do

39:43

it soon. Amazing. Amazing. Well, you

39:45

know, we hope and pray you won't

39:48

drop dead anytime soon. You

39:50

hope and pray. Truly is

39:54

Yeah, always a

39:56

pleasure watching your work. So yeah, I

39:58

think that might be my time but Yeah, driveway

40:00

dikes, not dolls. Such

40:03

a pleasure talking, Ethan and Tricia. Thank you so much

40:05

for your time. Thank you. Thank you.

40:09

OK, that was Ethan Cohen and Tricia Cook, and we

40:11

will be talking about driveway dolls later on in the

40:14

review section. Something to look forward to. Yes.

40:18

Right now, movie news time. There's quite a lot of movie

40:20

news. The Oscars happened. We devoted

40:22

most of the movie news section last

40:25

week to the Oscars and to our predictions. How

40:27

do we do? Do we do OK? Pretty

40:30

well. Oppenheimer won seven Oscars and played the best

40:32

picture, best director. I think, you know, the

40:34

only one that we kind of swerved

40:36

on was was Best Actress,

40:38

but we were very happy with the result regardless.

40:40

So good. And let's say it before he does.

40:42

Chris did think it would be like, I did

40:45

say it was a possibility. I didn't call it,

40:47

but I did say I would not be surprised

40:49

to find Twitter wake up on Monday morning to

40:51

find Twitter angry about Emma Stone winning Best Actress.

40:53

And that's pretty much what happened. But

40:56

I also think there's been a lot of graciousness. A lot

40:59

of people going, actually, she was amazing. It was a great

41:01

performance. And also,

41:03

I think she was consistently

41:05

gracious throughout award season and

41:08

paid tribute to all of her fellow nominees,

41:10

but in particular, Lillie Gladstone. And it's clear

41:12

that the two of them have been genuinely

41:14

friendly the whole way through award season and

41:16

have been kind of hanging out together. I think

41:18

a lot of these things. So, you know, it doesn't

41:21

feel like she's taking

41:23

something away, really, in that sense. I think I

41:25

think they'll hopefully help each other out in the future. Solid,

41:28

solid. I mean, I didn't see the ceremony.

41:30

I slept in. It was I stepped

41:32

through the whole thing, which is a delightful way to experience

41:34

the Oscars, because then you wake up the next morning, you

41:36

see all the clips of the stuff that worked. Yeah. And

41:38

that's fun. And so all

41:40

the stuff that worked included John Cena presenting

41:42

the best costume Oscar whilst completely starkers, except

41:45

for a large envelope covering

41:47

his nethers. That was

41:50

very, very funny. Obviously, the aforementioned and

41:52

aforementioned discussed Ryan Gosling. I'm just Ken,

41:54

which won Best Picture. And

41:56

the other weird things, Al

41:58

Pacino completely ban Jack. seen the

42:00

announcement of Best Picture by just

42:03

kind of Al Pacino

42:05

in it. The

42:07

best way I could describe it, you know, with

42:09

the now famous, my eyes

42:11

see Oppenheimer thing,

42:14

but Jimmy Kimmel, was he a good

42:16

host? Anyone? He was fine.

42:18

I mean, I didn't think his opening

42:21

monologue was an old timer, but it was solid.

42:24

There were a couple of very tired

42:26

jokes, Killers of the Flower Moon running time.

42:28

I mean, even if James is making that joke

42:30

over and over and over again, you know, it's

42:32

really been run into the ground. It's not a

42:34

joke at this point for James. It's a political

42:36

protest. I know, yeah. And I don't think it

42:38

was for Kimmel. So that was

42:40

a bit like, oh, I get it. But otherwise, I mean,

42:42

I think he struck the right note of poking

42:45

fun, but not being mean. And,

42:49

and yeah, there were some lovely, lovely winners.

42:51

I mean, the last repair shop winning Best

42:53

Live Action Short, if you know, a little

42:55

girl from that, absolutely delightful. It

42:58

was it wasn't a bad Oscars. It wasn't about Oscars. A

43:00

couple of non attendees among

43:02

the winners, interestingly, Miyazaki

43:05

didn't travel over Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer wasn't there.

43:08

No, Miyazaki didn't travel over to pick

43:10

up Best Animation for the boy in the

43:12

Heron. But also, Wes Anderson wasn't on hand. I guess

43:15

he might be shooting. No, he is shooting. He should

43:17

in the new film, Wes Anderson. So this is interesting.

43:19

This is the one thing that kind of slightly sticks

43:21

to my craw a little bit, which is that Wes

43:23

Anderson won Best Live Action Short for

43:25

the wonderful story of Henry Sugar, his Rolled

43:28

Out adaptation. He did four Rolled Out adaptations

43:30

on Netflix. I think it was four, maybe

43:32

three. And they were all very, very good.

43:36

And he won Best Live Action Short as

43:39

a result. I feel that

43:41

that's somewhat

43:44

unfair. It's

43:46

hard because you can't you shouldn't disqualify someone from

43:48

the category because of who they are. But

43:50

that is a world

43:52

class filmmaker who's already established

43:55

with a Netflix level budget that is

43:58

far beyond anything that his competitors. in

44:00

that category will be able to muster. Even

44:02

the catering on the wonderful story of Henry

44:04

Sugar will presumably cost more than most live-action

44:06

shorts that are being made in the world

44:08

right now, where the average budget is, I'm

44:10

guessing, something like $10,000, 10,000

44:13

pounds in that ballpark. People's scrambling

44:15

to get equipment together, shooting things on

44:17

their phones, or they're finding time to

44:20

edit. Everything is very, very DIY. Then

44:23

you have Wes Anderson, the most meticulous

44:25

filmmaker in the world, going in with

44:27

his professional grade-A crew, his incredible cast

44:29

of actors, including Benedict Cumberbatch, and

44:31

his Netflix-level budget. It doesn't feel like

44:33

the playing field is at all level

44:36

for me. Now, I know you also

44:38

feel that the same is true with things like

44:40

animated shorts. But

44:42

I don't really know what

44:45

the solution here is, other than to

44:47

perhaps introduce some rules to the category,

44:50

which means you have

44:52

to have a certain budget level, or maybe it's for

44:55

first-time filmmakers or people who haven't yet made

44:57

a film. I don't know. But listen, I

44:59

can't be mad about Wes Anderson getting an

45:01

Oscar because he deserves an Oscar, because he's

45:03

brilliant. But maybe not for this, is what I'm

45:05

saying. No, I get what you're saying. But like I

45:08

say, we've been

45:10

talking about this. My argument has been,

45:12

in the animation category, you have long

45:14

had people like Joanna Quinn

45:16

and Les Mills have been making

45:18

these hand-drawn animated films in

45:20

Wales for years about

45:23

this woman called Beryl. And

45:27

they sometimes get Oscar-nominated. They

45:29

have been Oscar-nominated. But

45:31

they're up against the Disney

45:33

movie, the Pixar movie that showed

45:35

before the billion-dollar film that everybody's seen. And

45:38

what do you know, they don't necessarily win.

45:41

And that feels like a very non-level playing

45:43

field, because I think a lot of the

45:45

time with the Oscars, it

45:47

appears that even in things

45:49

like the animated shorts category where the

45:51

films are on average, I think about

45:53

maximum 20 minutes, but often much less,

45:56

you do get the voters going for the one that they saw

45:58

when they went to see Toy Story 4. or

46:00

they went to see Frozen or whatever it is. So

46:03

that level playing field has

46:05

never existed in the other short categories, I

46:07

think. So, you know. But that's not to

46:09

excuse what happens here. No, and I get it. But

46:12

then you either change the rules of the category

46:14

or you bring in a

46:17

category that is specifically designed

46:19

for newcomers. Yeah. That's possibly

46:22

the answer. But even in

46:24

that category, even in animated short, you

46:26

have a situation where, yes, you have the might

46:29

of Pixar, but not every Pixar short

46:31

gets nominated. But also a lot

46:33

of the Pixar filmmakers who are making those shorts

46:35

are filmmakers who are cutting their teeth,

46:38

who are slowly but surely dipping

46:40

their toes in the water. It's not like those Pixar

46:42

shorts are made by Brad Bird or Andrew Stanton or

46:44

Pete Foster. But I hear what

46:46

you're saying. I hear what you're saying. In

46:48

terms of promotional

46:51

weight, in terms of institutional expertise.

46:53

Of course, an eyeball on

46:55

the screen, of course. Different

46:57

level to some of the. I think we're making the

46:59

same argument. I think we are. I mean, I think we are actually. The

47:03

animation categories have been really interesting in recent years

47:05

and they have, I think, quite slightly changed the

47:07

rules. But the animation branch

47:09

has been nominating really interesting

47:12

stuff and they have been

47:14

nominating, you know, the cartoon saloons

47:16

of this world, the very small animation

47:18

houses that do extraordinary work with limited

47:20

resources. And you want the

47:22

Oscars to be celebrating that. And I know that

47:25

it's difficult maybe to for

47:27

those things to get visibility, but surely that's

47:30

what awards are for, you know. So absolutely. This

47:33

is not intended as a criticism of the wonderful

47:35

story of Henry Sugar, which is indeed wonderful. It's

47:38

really great. Check it out on Netflix and check

47:40

out the other ones that Wes Anderson made as

47:43

well. And it's not a criticism of Wes Anderson

47:45

either. Nor should really.

47:48

Nor am I saying that he should turn down the

47:50

Oscar. I'm not saying this. What I'm saying is put

47:52

yourself in the shoes of someone who made the director

47:54

of the After that David or Yellowo. I mean, he's

47:57

managed to get David or Yellowo to be in their

47:59

film and even. And then that's kind of

48:01

maybe giving you a step up because you have

48:03

a major movie star in your short film. And

48:05

you're thinking, I'm like, what in the Oscar here?

48:07

Oh fuck, Wes Anderson's in my category. I

48:10

don't have a chance. If you are

48:12

a young, scrappy, pugnacious filmmaker who has

48:14

managed to get a film together, a

48:16

short film together, and it's brilliant. And

48:19

it's gone on the Oscar shortlist. It's

48:21

on the Oscar shortlist, and then suddenly

48:23

in comes the 800-pound gorilla that is

48:25

immaculately dressed as 800-pound gorilla. That is

48:28

Wes Anderson. And you're just thinking, well,

48:30

this isn't really fair. Anyway,

48:32

hey, Jimbo. Let's

48:34

welcome Jimbo back to the show. Hello, James. Anything

48:36

else you want to say about the Oscars after I

48:39

get off my soapbox for five

48:41

minutes? No, not massively.

48:43

Again, I think it was a really

48:45

solid show. It was also

48:47

the most boring show in living memory, but not

48:49

because it was bad production, because I get, like

48:52

we discussed, we knew what was going to happen.

48:54

Yes, a couple of slight deviations from the script,

48:56

as it were, but it was very predictable. It

48:58

wasn't very exciting, nothing. And I can do without

49:00

people getting snapped in the face, excitement. I don't

49:02

need that. But sometimes it's quite nice to go

49:04

in thinking, I just don't know what's going to

49:07

happen. I want a little bit of showmanship to

49:09

it. And it felt a little bit like,

49:11

oh, I'm seeing this film again for the

49:13

second time. I would, I'll tell you what,

49:15

I would like them to get rid of the five

49:17

nominees presenting the category, five

49:19

former winners, rather, presenting the category, because I

49:21

find that cringy. I

49:24

would like them to emphasize funniness

49:27

more in their intros, but also

49:29

in their maybe host.

49:32

I mean, some people were saying that John Mulaney

49:34

made a good bid for presenting next year, and he

49:36

was very, very funny. And I would

49:38

very much like to see him present the Oscars,

49:41

I must say that. Obviously, Steve Martin and

49:43

Martin Short remain my number one choice,

49:45

but John Mulaney is absolutely

49:47

right up there. All right. So

49:49

some other things happened as well in the world of movie news. along

50:00

with a note presumably respectfully asking her

50:02

to return as Sydney Prescott in Scream

50:04

7 and she accepted the

50:06

note, what happened to the gold

50:09

bullion I do not know. But

50:11

yes, Ned Campbell is back

50:13

as Sydney Prescott in the somewhat

50:15

troubled Scream 7. But

50:18

now it seems to be

50:20

back on track with Kevin

50:22

Williamson directing. Now of

50:24

course Kevin Williamson is the guy who

50:27

wrote the original Scream and Scream 2

50:30

for that matter and he's back, back, back. And

50:33

he's not just writing this time, he's directing. I

50:35

don't believe he's writing at all. Guy Busick is

50:37

writing. So it's written basically. It is being written

50:39

by Guy Busick who wrote the last two.

50:41

Kevin Williamson I'm sure is going to be writing,

50:44

maybe he's writing it with him, but Guy Busick

50:46

who wrote the previous two which James Vanderbilt is

50:48

going to be writing this one. And

50:51

Kevin Williamson directing which is an interesting,

50:53

exciting, Jimbo are you excited about this? I

50:56

am a little bit, but only because on

50:58

the recent pilot TV podcast we did a

51:01

revisit of Dawson's Creek which

51:04

Kevin Williamson famously wrote and is

51:06

in fact dreadful. I

51:08

thought it was going to be great and I was really

51:10

looking forward to it and it's not aged at all well.

51:12

That's not to say that Scream isn't good, that's not to

51:15

say he isn't good, but it has certainly made me slightly

51:17

concerned. I also, and I'm going to say this now, predict

51:19

that Sydney Prescott is going to get murdered horribly

51:21

in the prologue to this

51:23

film. Get out of here. I refuse. Yeah,

51:26

it's going to happen. But then they're without a leading lady again. So they have

51:28

to start all over again. I think, well, when they go with Nava's

51:30

a leading lady, I don't know. I

51:36

don't think that she's going to come back

51:39

unless it was a particularly large truck, which

51:41

was called William, just to

51:44

end Sydney's story in that way. If

51:47

you judge in the prologue then it doesn't need to be quite as big a

51:49

truck. Oh, it's just

51:51

like a mid-side truck. Oh no, I think it should

51:53

be a bigger truck in that case. Maybe the truck

51:55

could be the murder weapon. She gets, a truck refers

51:57

to her and is driven by Ghostface. And she's crushed.

51:59

by the gold billion. Yes, she is, Jack. And it's

52:01

a bit like Frank Drepin and Nick, a two and

52:04

a half. Actually,

52:06

I reversed over my last two victims. Luckily, one of them

52:08

turned out to be Sydney Prescott. Maybe it's

52:10

a little bit like that. I don't know. I

52:13

don't think that... I think her

52:15

story ended very nicely in Scream brackets

52:17

2022, Scream 5. And

52:21

she deserves her happy ending. Not that way. Stop

52:23

it, you filthy-minded beggars. Probably does. And probably

52:25

she does. She does, quite frankly. With

52:28

Mr McDreamy, her husband,

52:30

Mr Patrick Dempsey. Not

52:33

a bad-looking fella to be spending your retirement with. But

52:36

I don't know. I just think dragging her back into this, it

52:39

has much potential to

52:41

muddy the waters and to tarnish her

52:44

legacy and I think leave Sydney alone,

52:46

basically. But she's signed on the dotted

52:48

line. So she's back, back, back. If

52:51

she is back, back, back, I think

52:53

she should either be Go's face or

52:57

stay alive to the end. I do not want you to be Go's

52:59

for Dime. I would like her to stay alive. Thank you very much.

53:01

Please and thank you. Thank you, please and thank you. Venom.

53:04

Venom, Venom, Venom. Yeah,

53:08

he's taking an unexpected direction in that

53:10

we now know that his next film

53:12

will be about exotic dancing. Yeah,

53:15

that's right. Venom scripts. Venom

53:17

X Magic Mike, The Last

53:19

Dance. Or rather Venom The Last Dance

53:21

is what they're calling the film. Tom,

53:24

very hardy. Yeah,

53:27

it has a title. It's happening.

53:30

It's coming out this year. Venom The Last Dance is

53:32

coming out in October. We knew it was coming out

53:34

in October. We didn't know it was called Venom The

53:36

Last Dance. We thought it was going to be called

53:38

Venom 3, but that wouldn't make any

53:40

sense because the last one wasn't called Venom 2. So

53:43

this one is called Venom The Last Dance, which

53:45

does seem to indicate that either this is

53:47

a sports documentary about

53:49

Michael Jordan or

53:53

a very sexy dance movie,

53:55

or maybe this is the final Venom

53:57

movie. Well, we can hope for.

54:00

one of those outcomes. Or more than one. More

54:03

than one. I'd love a pivot into

54:05

sports documentary. That'd be pretty wild. And

54:07

I took that personally. Anything else

54:10

you want to talk about in the world of movie or TV?

54:12

Well, speaking of superheroes, the Batman

54:14

part 2, the Batman part 2,

54:17

has been pushed back to 2026, which

54:20

can't be a huge surprise to anybody because I feel

54:22

like if it was going to be 2025, we would

54:24

have heard a bit more about it by now. So

54:27

yeah, it's not expected on the 2nd

54:29

of October, 2026. I'm

54:31

sure you're going to want to mark that in your diaries.

54:33

So that's four and a half years after the

54:35

Batman. But in the meantime, we'll

54:37

have the Penguin due later

54:40

this year with Colin Farrell's lovely face

54:42

being hidden under a mess of nonsense

54:45

once again. And that gives them

54:47

a chance to have Superman appear

54:49

before another the Batman. And

54:53

I think Joker will be out first as well, won't he? Yeah.

54:56

Yeah, but those won't be part of James Gunn's DCU.

55:02

It is still confusing because they're planning to do

55:04

the Brave and the Bold, which is in

55:07

James Gunn's, not in James Gunn's, not like

55:09

Quantum Mania, but in James Gunn universe, first

55:11

a Batman will be separate to Robert Pattinson,

55:13

who of course is separate to any Batman

55:15

who may or may not show up. I'm

55:18

so confused. Todd Phillips Joker

55:20

movies. But yeah,

55:22

it's exciting. It's interesting.

55:26

I like the first movie. So I'm looking forward to seeing

55:28

the second one. And of course, we're talking about

55:31

James Gunn's DCU. And

55:33

when aren't we? When aren't we? When are

55:36

we never? James Gunn announced this

55:38

week that Peacemaker season 2 is finally happening

55:40

with John Cena, who may or may not

55:42

be clothed. Although he wasn't clothed so much

55:44

in season 1. And

55:47

I'm excited about that because I really liked season 1. And that's

55:49

going to be shot at the same

55:51

time as Superman, which means James Gunn, who is

55:53

a Superman but not Superman, will not be able

55:55

to direct all the episodes of season 2, as

55:58

indeed was the original intent. Fair enough. He can't

56:00

do that. He has written all

56:02

the episodes and the Viola Davis led

56:04

Waller season will be going after Peacemaker

56:06

season two instead of before as it

56:08

had been the plan. All right. All

56:12

right. Hey, hey, hey, hey.

56:14

It's Thursday. It's Thursday,

56:16

March 14th. And that

56:18

can mean only one thing. Pi Day! James

56:20

is tired again. He is struggling

56:22

to stay awake. I am looking at his eyes. They

56:26

involuntarily closed just a second ago.

56:28

Luckily, he doesn't have to record pilot

56:30

after this. I am flagging. I have

56:33

post-travel lodge distress. You're a Randall flagging.

56:35

Yeah. Well, the best way to get James

56:37

excited right now is plug in. That's

56:40

right. What? What? Oh,

56:43

no. Plug

56:45

in the new issue of Empire,

56:48

of course. Oh. It's

56:50

what I'm so disappointed in. Thank God for you finished. Thank

56:53

God you finished the sentence. Yes. It

56:56

is the new issue of Empires and Sale right now.

56:58

It has hit the shelves of all good and evil

57:00

and virtual newsagents, and it's a belt of an issue.

57:03

On the cover, I'm going to say, because

57:05

I wrote the feature, is Furiosa, but

57:08

it's not mediocre. It is very,

57:10

very exciting indeed. It is probably

57:13

my most anticipated movie of 2024. I

57:18

spoke. I went very

57:21

far into running corporate. I

57:23

spoke to George Miller and

57:27

the Puget. I

57:29

don't know what's happening. Anybody

57:36

under 30 is going to be just baffled.

57:38

I mean, he might be generous. George

57:42

Miller. I

57:46

spoke to George Miller, who, of course, is the

57:48

mastermind behind the Mad Max series and should have

57:50

won the Best Director Oscar for Fury Road a

57:52

few years ago. And

57:54

he's back, back, back. So I spoke to George

57:56

Miller, who directed it. I

57:59

spoke to Anya Taylor. of Joy who plays Furiosa

58:01

and we talked for a long time, George Miller and

58:03

I, about why Charlize Theron is not

58:05

returning to play Furiosa in this. It's a prequel

58:07

to Fury Road, unless you probably explain it right

58:09

there. Don't know why we spent so little talking

58:11

about it. I spoke to Chris

58:13

Hemsworth who plays the film's bad

58:15

guy and twisted father figure

58:18

to Furiosa, a character called

58:20

Dementus, which should give

58:22

you an idea of what we're in for from Chris

58:24

Hemsworth, who was great. These

58:26

were the first interviews these people had

58:29

done about this movie and they were

58:31

all terrified about what they could

58:33

and could not say. It's a really, really fun

58:35

feature. There's a lot of great stuff about the

58:37

making of the film in there and if you

58:39

want to know more about Furiosa before it debuts

58:41

in May, then I cannot recommend

58:44

it highly enough, says the man who wrote

58:46

the feature. Anything else in there that I

58:48

didn't sully with my words?

58:51

Yeah, loads. So we talked

58:53

to Alex Garland. In fact, Alex Garland

58:55

wrote exclusively for Empire about his new

58:57

film Civil War, not

58:59

to be confused with it involving Captain America.

59:02

I love that film. We have the

59:05

directors of Abigail, which is

59:07

the vampire ballerina movie, talking

59:09

to us about that. We

59:11

have a reunion of Sopranos,

59:14

creator and some cast for the 25th

59:16

anniversary of the Sopranos. 25 years,

59:19

Jesus. 25

59:21

years. We have a bunch of us

59:23

wrote little tributes to the late great

59:25

Carl Weathers. Looking back

59:27

on things like Rocky, Predator, The

59:29

Mandalorian, Rested Development, all the greats. We've

59:32

got a look at Jerry Seinfeld's Pop Torrets movie.

59:34

That is a thing that is a real thing.

59:36

It's a real thing. A real thing. A real

59:38

thing that didn't just make up. No, that is

59:40

an actual thing that exists. It is

59:42

incredible. We've got Zack Snyder talking about

59:44

Rebel Moon Part 2, The Scar Giver. Also

59:47

a real thing that exists. Also a real

59:49

thing that exists. Andrew Scott talking

59:51

Ripley. First look at A Gentleman in

59:53

Moscow with Hugh McGregor and Mary Elizabeth Winstead.

59:55

So much work. So much

59:57

work. Chris, you've got Wonka in your set.

1:00:00

Oneka. Oneka. Paul King,

1:00:02

Simon Farnaby. Yes.

1:00:05

My section is the best section. Just ignore all

1:00:07

of those sections. I've obviously the Furiosa feature.

1:00:09

Go and read that. And then

1:00:11

just frame it on your wall. It's

1:00:13

beautiful. Beautiful thing. Beautiful. Anyway, it's a very good

1:00:15

issue. It's a great issue. I

1:00:18

apologize in advance for

1:00:20

my feature. There's probably a stupid

1:00:23

joke in there or two somewhere. But

1:00:25

yeah, it's a great, great issue on

1:00:27

sale right now in all good, evil

1:00:29

and virtual newsagents. Thank you in advance

1:00:31

for your interest and your support.

1:00:34

It's not much better than when I used to demand

1:00:37

that they pay my wages, you motherfuckers. It's much better.

1:00:39

See how I've grown as a person? Yeah.

1:00:41

It's not good because of the plug-in. Time

1:00:49

for another guest. Oh, God, please. OK,

1:00:51

excellent. Philip Noyce. We like him, don't

1:00:53

we? He's Noyce. He's Noyce. Noyce.

1:00:56

He is one of Australia's finest filmmakers,

1:00:58

mate. OK.

1:01:01

He is. He is. He

1:01:03

directed, of course, Deadcom. Yeah, pretty amazing.

1:01:05

Deadcom. He directed Rabbit Proof Fence. He

1:01:07

directed The Quiet American with Michael Caine.

1:01:10

He directed, of course, The One, Two,

1:01:12

Punch, The Double Whammy of Harrison Ford's

1:01:14

Jack Ryan movies, Patriot Games, and Clear

1:01:16

and Present Danger. He directed Salt. And

1:01:19

it's hard to direct Salt because it just sits there.

1:01:22

And yet he directed it. That's how

1:01:24

good Philip Noyce is. And now he

1:01:26

is back, back, back as a director

1:01:28

with this week's Fast Charlie, which

1:01:31

is on Prime Video as of today, Friday, the

1:01:33

15th of March, the eyes of March. Beware

1:01:35

the eyes of March, but do not beware

1:01:37

of Fast Charlie, Ford's star as Pierce Brosnan,

1:01:40

Ron Holm himself as

1:01:42

a hitman with an accent. He's

1:01:45

not playing. He doesn't do an Irish accent in this. He

1:01:47

did an American accent and it really threw me. Bonds

1:01:50

shouldn't by rule attempt

1:01:54

other accents. Unless it's Daniel Craig

1:01:56

in Logan Lucky. No.

1:02:02

But you know, occasionally I'll allow it. Just

1:02:05

for a special occasion. Yeah, but

1:02:07

like, T-dolts shooting really straight

1:02:10

from his accent. Roger Moore didn't straight

1:02:12

from his accent. Sean Connery couldn't straight

1:02:14

from his accent. So it just, it

1:02:16

throws me. It throws me. But anyway,

1:02:18

Chris Brothlin, very charming in this movie,

1:02:21

an aging hitman who finds

1:02:23

himself embarking upon a rip-roaring

1:02:25

rampage of revenge, but oh

1:02:27

no, wouldn't you know it

1:02:29

is complication? He's falling in

1:02:31

love with Mirena Baccarin, who

1:02:34

plays a taxidermist whose path

1:02:36

crosses with his, they intersect.

1:02:39

Is that what the kids call it? Hey, hey, come on

1:02:41

now, steady. So anyway, Philip

1:02:44

Loyce hasn't happened yet, but I am

1:02:46

reliably informed that it will in about

1:02:48

three and a half hours. So hopefully

1:02:50

it was great. Fantastic. Here it is, and if it

1:02:52

doesn't happen, then I'll just cut this whole bit out and run

1:02:54

under wiser. Here's Philip Loyce, enjoy.

1:02:57

Thanks for doing this. Whereabouts in the world

1:03:00

are you at the moment? I

1:03:02

am in Hollywood, California. The heart

1:03:04

of Hollywood, California, oppositely

1:03:07

lives the

1:03:10

head of Netflix. Across

1:03:14

the other way is

1:03:17

a famous screenwriter. You

1:03:19

know, I'm in the thick of it here. The

1:03:24

heart of Hollywood. You can't escape movies even

1:03:26

if you wanted to. Could

1:03:28

not escape them. Don't want to anyway. Don't

1:03:30

know anything else. Have

1:03:33

been saying action and cut and being paid

1:03:35

for it. Now I'm

1:03:37

73, about to turn 74.

1:03:41

Someone's been paying me to say action and

1:03:43

cut since I was 18 years old. Believe

1:03:48

it or not. Oh my God. I

1:03:50

have not had another job since I dug

1:03:53

my last sewerage ditch, which

1:03:56

earned me enough to make my little

1:03:59

short film about this. the sex fantasies

1:04:01

of a teenager, a subject

1:04:03

that I returned to in my memory of course.

1:04:07

But that was the last time

1:04:09

I had another job when

1:04:12

I was 18 years old. Wow. Was

1:04:14

there a fallback position if it had all gone horribly

1:04:16

wrong for you? There was always

1:04:19

a fallback position and that was

1:04:21

a Teachers College scholarship that I

1:04:23

had which would

1:04:25

have indentured me for 10

1:04:29

years and I would have been sent like

1:04:31

that character in the

1:04:34

film Waking Fright who

1:04:37

sent out into the outback and

1:04:40

has to teach kids for

1:04:45

a certain period. That's the life I

1:04:47

was avoiding. And it was

1:04:51

that film and

1:04:53

the adventures of that gentleman that convinced

1:04:56

me that I should keep trying to

1:04:58

avoid that life. Quite

1:05:01

right too. I thought it was a life

1:05:03

of boozing, of being incredibly sweaty, of taking

1:05:05

pot shots at kangaroos and pot shots at

1:05:07

the locals and going slowly mad so I

1:05:09

could see why you'd like to avoid that.

1:05:12

Yeah, it was the slightly mad part that I

1:05:14

didn't go for. It's

1:05:17

a hell of a film though. It was

1:05:19

a hell of a film. Not an

1:05:21

Australian film as it turned out although

1:05:24

it was an Australian subject. It was

1:05:26

a Canadian director, Ted Coaches, who had

1:05:29

a brilliant career, a most

1:05:32

brilliant career in Australia. But Australians

1:05:35

of course have claimed it as

1:05:37

an Aussie movie but it's not

1:05:39

really. But what about filmmaking? Because you

1:05:41

have been, as you say, you've been doing this

1:05:43

since you were a baron as we

1:05:46

say over here. And you

1:05:48

have been very prolific, especially the last few

1:05:50

years. You've made a movie every two years

1:05:52

pretty much. And Fast Charlie just

1:05:55

being the latest. So are

1:05:57

you still finding it easy? to

1:06:00

get films off the ground in America? No, no,

1:06:02

no, no, no, no. I mean,

1:06:05

it was easy-ish, easy.

1:06:07

No, it was easy. It was genuinely easy. It

1:06:09

was a big easy. When

1:06:12

I was working within the Hollywood studio

1:06:14

system, for better or

1:06:17

for worse, as fast

1:06:19

as I could turn them out, they'd have

1:06:21

them ready with,

1:06:23

you know, stars, scripts. Well,

1:06:27

actually, the first thing that came

1:06:29

first was the publicity material. They

1:06:32

always proceeded making the film with,

1:06:34

you know, a huge

1:06:36

sales effort to sell the film to

1:06:38

people all around the world, which

1:06:41

is Hollywood's great achievement, you know. Rome

1:06:46

did it with a sword, but Hollywood took

1:06:49

the hearts and minds with

1:06:51

movies. That was easy. Now,

1:06:54

it's a struggle because

1:06:57

I'm no longer working

1:06:59

within the studio system. I'm

1:07:01

making truly independent films

1:07:05

and the traditional way of

1:07:07

financing those films is through

1:07:09

pre-sales. I'll explain it

1:07:11

to you. So, you get Joe

1:07:13

Blow, the film actor, to be

1:07:16

your star. Then you

1:07:18

take that star to a sales company

1:07:20

to give you an estimate on how

1:07:22

much money you could

1:07:24

raise between the script, you, the

1:07:26

director, and that particular star. Then

1:07:29

you get a budget done and you have

1:07:32

to see if the money that

1:07:35

could be resolved around the

1:07:37

world equals the amount

1:07:39

of money you need. Well,

1:07:41

what we know in the

1:07:43

last few years is that the whole

1:07:45

system of distributing films,

1:07:47

of exhibiting films, has collapsed.

1:07:50

It's completely collapsed. So,

1:07:52

there's a whole market, a whole

1:07:54

way of financing films that

1:07:56

was valid for the last... 30

1:08:00

years, that no longer

1:08:03

works. It's completely broken. So

1:08:06

it's hard. It's hard out there. Hard

1:08:09

to get movies made. I've

1:08:11

had several movies with

1:08:14

what I would call great,

1:08:17

bankable stars only to

1:08:19

get back the estimates

1:08:21

note. Sorry, what's your

1:08:23

budget? $15 million? Well, I can

1:08:26

raise $7 on

1:08:28

that star, not $15. Oh, back

1:08:31

to the drawing board. So

1:08:34

it's not easy. But it

1:08:38

is easy in another way, in as much as your

1:08:41

own boss. You can make your

1:08:43

own decisions. They're not made for you by

1:08:45

a studio. On the

1:08:47

other hand, the

1:08:49

studio system really does give

1:08:53

you certain creative freedom until

1:08:56

that monumental day that

1:08:59

you have your first test

1:09:01

screening. Because the studio system is

1:09:03

all based and it has been since 1923 on

1:09:05

out-of-town test

1:09:10

screenings. We used to go down

1:09:12

to Orange County back in the

1:09:14

20s. Now we go as

1:09:17

far even as Las Vegas or Phoenix

1:09:20

to do a screening. But

1:09:24

there's a set of rules. If you get

1:09:26

70, you're in trouble. If

1:09:28

you get below 70, you're

1:09:30

in big trouble. If it gets below

1:09:32

60, you're in awful trouble.

1:09:36

If you get 75, you might get out of

1:09:38

trouble. That's 75 out of 100 on the audience

1:09:42

rating. If you get above 80, you're

1:09:46

in for a good time. If you get above 90,

1:09:49

wow, you're home free, baby.

1:09:52

Your movie is going to get a big P&A

1:09:54

spend and they're not going

1:09:56

to bother you. I've got

1:09:58

25. And I've got 94. So

1:10:02

I have a big range of studio

1:10:04

experiences where I was

1:10:06

beaten up for months or

1:10:08

where the truck was backed up

1:10:10

with money and I was told, whatever you want,

1:10:12

just finish the movie. Anyway,

1:10:17

that was the studio system. Now I'm working

1:10:20

in the system of you've

1:10:22

got to find an actor who is bothable

1:10:24

to make a movie. And

1:10:27

as Charlie obviously stars Pierce Brosnan,

1:10:32

is Pierce one of those actors and when

1:10:34

you say, okay, I've got Pierce Brosnan on

1:10:36

board now, that unlocks the budget level that

1:10:38

you need? Are you still playing, are

1:10:40

you still having to constrain yourself

1:10:42

in a way with the budget? No,

1:10:45

you've always got to constrain yourself. But

1:10:49

necessity is the mother of invention and

1:10:53

you will do something

1:10:55

out of necessity. And

1:10:57

fast Charlie is a perfect example

1:11:00

of that because

1:11:03

five days before we started shooting,

1:11:05

the producer announced that there was no money.

1:11:09

Not a little money, no money. But

1:11:12

everyone had to go home. But

1:11:15

the bridging finance had fallen

1:11:17

through. And

1:11:22

I got together with Richard Wank

1:11:24

who was the writer and

1:11:27

I said, you know, what are we

1:11:29

going to do? And he said, well,

1:11:31

why don't we just see

1:11:33

if you've got any money and then we'll just

1:11:35

write whatever money you're

1:11:38

told you do have. And

1:11:41

so that started a

1:11:45

process that went on every day during

1:11:47

that film. And if

1:11:49

you've seen the film, you'll notice

1:11:51

in the first couple of

1:11:53

minutes that there's a long

1:11:55

executive producer credit list, 26

1:11:58

of them. Well,

1:12:00

each of those 26 came in

1:12:03

once we send out the SOSs around

1:12:07

America for money. Some

1:12:09

of them came in for $10,000 and some

1:12:11

of them came in for up to $2

1:12:13

million of investment. And as

1:12:15

a result, that's why they've got bank

1:12:18

credits on a movie as

1:12:21

executive producers. And the movie

1:12:23

was made week to week,

1:12:25

day to day with reinvestment

1:12:28

of small amounts

1:12:30

of money by 26 different investors.

1:12:34

Wow. So you really have to cut your cloth

1:12:36

to suit at that point? My

1:12:39

God. Well, I have to cut my cloth to suit

1:12:41

and I would come home,

1:12:45

Warwick Thornton, the DP, who is a

1:12:47

great chef, would start preparing

1:12:49

a meal because I was staying

1:12:51

in a house with him in New Orleans. And

1:12:54

while I would watch my rushes and then I would

1:12:57

work out what I had to do the

1:12:59

next day and then I'd send a note

1:13:01

to Richard, uh, uh, Wayne can say, Richard,

1:13:03

I've got to shoot 10 pages in 12

1:13:06

hours. It's not going

1:13:08

to happen. Here's the scenes. Can

1:13:11

you reduce those 10 to five? I'd

1:13:15

wake up at four o'clock in the morning as

1:13:17

one does when you're shooting a film. And

1:13:20

there would be five pages telling the

1:13:22

same story as yesterday, 10

1:13:25

pages told rewritten by

1:13:27

Richard would go out and film

1:13:29

it. And that's the reason why

1:13:31

the film runs 90

1:13:33

minutes. We only had 90

1:13:35

minutes worth of money to say. I

1:13:44

mean, that's amazing. That is

1:13:46

astonishing. It is amazing. It is amazing.

1:13:48

It's amazing that we got through. It's

1:13:50

amazing that we finished shooting. It's

1:13:53

amazing that we finished editing. It's

1:13:55

amazing that we were able to

1:13:57

raise the money to put music on the

1:13:59

film. the film. It's all

1:14:01

amazing. But

1:14:03

and it's so, it

1:14:06

was so wonderfully ridiculous that

1:14:09

it was self generating

1:14:11

in terms of energy and so on,

1:14:13

because I thought to myself, okay, been

1:14:15

doing this since I was 18 haven't

1:14:17

had any other job. Am I going

1:14:19

to be defeated? Am

1:14:22

I going to be defeated now?

1:14:24

No, I've never been defeated. And I won't be

1:14:26

on this one. And

1:14:28

so, you know, in a way, it made

1:14:31

me more determined and more determined

1:14:34

to cut corners, more determined to

1:14:36

engage the audience, you know, necessity

1:14:38

really was the mother of invention.

1:14:40

There was no one to bail

1:14:42

us out on

1:14:44

that movie, you know, and many

1:14:47

days the crew went on

1:14:50

strike because they hadn't been paid.

1:14:52

Wow. That that

1:14:54

roller coaster off

1:14:57

screen behind the camera was,

1:14:59

you know, almost as much pleasure as

1:15:02

watching the movie when it was finally

1:15:04

finished, just because there were

1:15:06

so many obstacles. And so to to

1:15:08

overcome them, you've got a

1:15:10

great sense of achievement. You

1:15:13

know, we were told that you can't have

1:15:15

drones too expensive. Because

1:15:18

nowadays, you know, you've got to get a drone operator

1:15:20

and a safety list and a safety that and everything.

1:15:22

I said, all right, okay, so we can't have a

1:15:24

drone. So

1:15:26

my second unit director who's been working

1:15:29

with me now for 10 years in

1:15:31

my film company and as a partner,

1:15:36

what, Warren Thompson, he

1:15:39

went to Best Buy and he bought

1:15:41

a drone for $1,100. He used it, he would use it on

1:15:43

taking all the

1:15:46

wide shots in the movie. And

1:15:48

then at the end of

1:15:50

the movie,

1:15:55

he went back to Best Buy, complained that something hadn't

1:15:57

worked and got got our money back. Which

1:16:01

is the second time

1:16:05

we've done that. And

1:16:12

we're getting better and better drones

1:16:14

each time we buy one. It's

1:16:17

interesting as well. Going back to what you said earlier

1:16:19

on about the test screening process and having a 95

1:16:23

in your career or 94 and then a 25 at some point.

1:16:26

94, some present danger, 94. That's

1:16:29

all they could say. It's an

1:16:31

amazing film. And

1:16:34

then there was there was SALT. SALT

1:16:41

where we had two versions. One

1:16:44

was the producer's version and one was my

1:16:46

version. And I thought how are we going

1:16:48

to solve it? So

1:16:50

I said let's have a test. Let's have a test

1:16:52

screening. And so we went

1:16:54

to Vegas and we're

1:16:56

waiting after the screening. We're waiting. There's all

1:16:59

the studio people over there and me and

1:17:01

the editor and someone else

1:17:03

was with me. I

1:17:05

can't remember who it was. With one

1:17:08

of the producers we're over here, we're

1:17:10

by ourselves. They're all waiting. They're expecting

1:17:12

that the person will come out with

1:17:14

a piece of paper and that will

1:17:16

be our guillotine. They'll cut us off.

1:17:19

They'll go with the studio cut,

1:17:21

the producers cut. Anyway, they come

1:17:24

out and scored 84 in four

1:17:26

quadrants, meaning under

1:17:29

male and female, under 25,

1:17:31

over 25, was all 84. And

1:17:36

so Amy Pascal said ship

1:17:38

it. The trigger cut

1:17:40

one the day. The problem

1:17:42

was solved. It

1:17:45

was like when they declared a new pope, the smoke

1:17:47

was billowing from the fact. I love

1:17:50

that. May

1:17:52

I ask though, what was the 25? The

1:17:56

25 was the quiet American after the

1:17:58

first time. to 9-11.

1:18:03

If you remember the quite American,

1:18:05

this Graham Greene's novel about

1:18:08

a CIA

1:18:11

agent set

1:18:14

loose in Vietnam in

1:18:16

the 50s who

1:18:19

arranges for a

1:18:22

terrorist attack to occur in a

1:18:25

square in Saigon which kills a lot

1:18:27

of people. Now,

1:18:29

this was not a very

1:18:31

popular subject post-9-11. The

1:18:36

idea that America might be a sponsor

1:18:39

of terrorism when they're just being attacked

1:18:41

in the most horrific way. So, eventually

1:18:46

with time, we

1:18:48

worked our way up towards 60. The memory

1:18:53

being what

1:18:56

it is. I don't think we

1:18:58

made that many changes to the movie. It was

1:19:00

just time that

1:19:02

repaired the score in a

1:19:05

way. Wow. I

1:19:07

mean, that blows my mind. I mean,

1:19:09

because famously you've had ups

1:19:12

and downs within the studio system in

1:19:14

your time. So, for every Patriot Games

1:19:16

or Clear Present Danger, there was a sliver

1:19:19

or a link. Patriot

1:19:21

Games wasn't a big score to begin

1:19:23

with. Really? Yeah, we had

1:19:25

to re-shoot the ending of that one because

1:19:32

they didn't feel that the original ending,

1:19:35

which was that Sean Bean and

1:19:38

Harrison Ford are in a fight

1:19:40

to the death on a rock in

1:19:42

the ocean and then they go

1:19:44

into the water and

1:19:47

one man drowns

1:19:49

and one man doesn't. And

1:19:52

they did not think that

1:19:54

that drowning of Sean Bean's

1:19:56

character carried enough

1:19:58

retribution. So

1:20:03

we had to restage

1:20:05

while the buses were going

1:20:07

past, advertising

1:20:09

the imminent opening of the movie,

1:20:12

we were reshooting the ending. And

1:20:15

if you probably can't remember that

1:20:17

far back, I can just... What

1:20:21

happened was that we had to arrange that

1:20:23

Sean Bean was killed by his own desire

1:20:26

to harm, as

1:20:30

much as he slipped back and

1:20:32

fell onto an anchor while he

1:20:34

was fighting the Jack Ryan character.

1:20:39

And that was the ending that we went out with a

1:20:42

week and a half later, with

1:20:44

the last reel being

1:20:47

missed as the first reel was

1:20:49

being shown to the press. We

1:20:51

ran the film over to the director's guild

1:20:54

and with the last reel sound joining

1:20:56

the picture so he could show

1:20:58

it to the critics on

1:21:00

the Monday before it opened. Anyway,

1:21:03

Hollywood stories. Philip, I'll let

1:21:05

you go in a second, but I just wanted to

1:21:08

bring it back to Fast Charlie to finish off. It's

1:21:11

fascinating to me hearing everything you've said

1:21:13

about how the production went down,

1:21:17

because what you've made is a film

1:21:19

that feels to me very much in

1:21:22

the fashion of great

1:21:24

70s thrillers. There was a little

1:21:26

bit of Charlie Farick going on

1:21:29

for me. Oh, a lot of

1:21:31

Charlie Farick. Wasn't that a great

1:21:33

movie? Oh, my God. Really

1:21:36

great. Don Segal

1:21:41

made such a good movie. And yes,

1:21:44

our ending and his ending

1:21:46

occurs... Well, his ending is

1:21:48

on an aerodrome, but it's

1:21:51

where there's a car junkyard. The

1:21:53

cars are parked on top of

1:21:55

each other and our

1:21:57

ending occurs in a car

1:21:59

junkyard. junkyard just like his

1:22:02

action finale, which

1:22:05

was my little homage

1:22:07

to Tilt

1:22:10

Charlie Varric, the movie, you know, which

1:22:14

I enjoyed so much. Also

1:22:16

the character that's

1:22:18

hunting Charlie

1:22:20

down, you know,

1:22:22

was the inspiration for the

1:22:26

freak in our movie who's hunting

1:22:29

our Charlie, our past

1:22:31

Charlie. Yes, absolutely.

1:22:34

So there was a lot

1:22:36

of inspiration from that movie

1:22:39

and other movies of the 70s which

1:22:41

were characterized by the

1:22:43

lack of money, an

1:22:45

independent spirit and an independent

1:22:48

mind in overcoming

1:22:51

the lack of money. And

1:22:54

watching that film, you

1:22:56

know, was so inspiring

1:22:58

to me because I realized that

1:23:01

while I was shooting in the

1:23:03

studio system, I had way too much time that

1:23:06

Fiegel, you know, would

1:23:08

choose to

1:23:11

use a close up, which means another set

1:23:13

up, you know, and would often have

1:23:16

whole sequences in wide

1:23:18

or mid shots or two shots. And

1:23:21

you know, and that I was

1:23:23

maybe a little self-indulgent compared to

1:23:26

those pioneers of the 70s. So

1:23:31

there's a lot to be learnt from the independent

1:23:33

film movement of that era

1:23:35

where, you know, a series of notable

1:23:38

directors were breaking out of the

1:23:40

studio system and financing their films

1:23:42

outside that system, although that film

1:23:45

eventually was distributed by one of

1:23:48

the majors. Philip, it's been an absolute pleasure. I'm

1:23:50

going to let you go, sir, but it's been a joy. Thanks a much good

1:23:52

time. Okay, Chris, thanks very much. I look forward to talking to you again. Take

1:23:54

care. Bye. Thank

1:23:57

you. Bye

1:24:00

bye. Bye bye. OK,

1:24:02

that was Philip Noyce talking about Fast Charlie.

1:24:05

Check it out. Check it out on Prime Video. But

1:24:10

there are other films and they're in cinemas

1:24:12

this week. We've

1:24:14

talked about Driveaway Dolls already. We talked about

1:24:16

Trisha Cook and Ethan Cohan, but we haven't

1:24:18

talked about the film itself, Hell's Bells. Yeah.

1:24:22

Tell us about it, please. So this is a proper caper.

1:24:24

So we're set in the late 90s and

1:24:27

Margaret Qualley plays Jamie, who is this

1:24:29

very loud, proud,

1:24:32

outspoken, very

1:24:34

sexually liberal lesbian

1:24:37

woman who goes with her much more

1:24:39

buttoned up, much more kind

1:24:41

of small-seat conservative friend. Marion, who's

1:24:43

played by Geraldine Viswanathan from Blockers.

1:24:46

They basically have to travel down

1:24:48

to Florida for reasons and they

1:24:50

take a driveaway car, which

1:24:52

is basically a rental car that they're returning

1:24:55

to another rental depot.

1:24:57

So you get a slightly cheaper deal on

1:24:59

your rental car. And they're driving

1:25:01

down from Philadelphia to Tallahassee. But unbeknownst to

1:25:03

them, there is something hidden in the trunk

1:25:05

of their car and some hit

1:25:08

men are after it. So cue nonsense.

1:25:10

And I say this with love, like

1:25:13

total nonsense about what is in this

1:25:15

suitcase to begin with is

1:25:17

a bit crazy. And then also the reasons

1:25:19

people are after it are also fantastically

1:25:22

silly. And I had a lot

1:25:24

of fun learning what that

1:25:26

was and kind of figuring

1:25:28

out more about it. There's lots of

1:25:30

small supporting roles. You've got people like

1:25:33

Pedro Pascal, Matt Damon are in

1:25:35

this. Beanie Feldstein

1:25:38

as one of their friends back home and also a

1:25:40

cop. Loads of notes of

1:25:43

good supporting roles. But it's... Coleman

1:25:45

Domingo? Sure. Yes. Coleman

1:25:48

Domingo also. Miley

1:25:50

Cyrus at one point. That's

1:25:52

true. And it's just very

1:25:54

light. It's very kind of breezy.

1:25:57

It doesn't take itself at all seriously. It's

1:26:02

tempting to see this as, yes, oh,

1:26:04

this is the funny Cohen and Joel

1:26:06

must be the serious Cohen and

1:26:08

their films have kind of, you know, gone

1:26:10

back and forth between the two of them. For

1:26:12

what it's worth, I mean, when I spoke to him for

1:26:15

the magazine, Ethan Cohen said that is absolutely not the case

1:26:17

and that his brother is hilarious. And actually

1:26:20

what he emphasised is that this

1:26:22

is not just an Ethan Cohen film, that this is very

1:26:24

much Ethan Cohen and Trisha Cook. So

1:26:26

Trisha Cook, despite having been married to

1:26:28

Ethan Cohen for a couple of decades,

1:26:30

identifies as a lesbian and certainly, I

1:26:33

think, lived as a lesbian before

1:26:35

her marriage. And

1:26:38

so she is kind of bringing

1:26:41

her culture essentially and her memories

1:26:43

to shape the world of this script.

1:26:46

It's a script that they've had for

1:26:48

a long time. So it was originally not

1:26:51

a period piece. And sometimes you can

1:26:53

kind of feel that a little bit, if I'm honest.

1:26:56

But I just find it funny. I find

1:26:58

it funny. I find the two leads

1:27:00

very charming. I liked

1:27:03

all the little cameos. I

1:27:05

thought the revelation of what's in the case

1:27:07

was brilliant. I just had a good time

1:27:09

with it. It is under 90 minutes. It's like what, 84

1:27:11

minutes or something? Which, you

1:27:13

know, you just get a bonus star just for that as

1:27:15

far as I'm concerned. But it is, I

1:27:17

just really enjoyed it. I'm with Ethan

1:27:20

Cohen on this. I think his comments about the division

1:27:22

of labour between him and his brother are absolutely right.

1:27:25

And I say that mainly as the tragedy of Macbeth is significantly

1:27:27

funnier than this. It's

1:27:29

interesting you mentioned Miley Cyrus there because obviously

1:27:31

she is in it. And I'd completely forgotten

1:27:33

that this has a series of weird 60s

1:27:36

psychodelica interludes that

1:27:39

absolutely baked my noodle watching this film.

1:27:41

I could not work out what they

1:27:43

were for. But

1:27:45

I mean, look, I am not a

1:27:47

seer of comedy. I'm not an expert in that genre.

1:27:49

But I did find this quite acutely unfunny. I thought

1:27:52

Margaret Colly was very, very good. She's brilliant in the

1:27:54

leftovers. I think she's very good in this as well.

1:27:57

You know, and I enjoyed a lot of the people in this, but I

1:27:59

just found the script. to be quite insubstantial

1:28:01

and a little bit boring. The plot

1:28:03

didn't grip me. I found, with the

1:28:05

exception of one or two genuinely good

1:28:08

lines, I found the comedy just fall

1:28:10

pretty consistently flat for me. It's

1:28:13

interesting how this has been received. So this has been –

1:28:15

some people have really liked this. We go to four stars.

1:28:17

John Nugent, who is mad, gave this four stars. But

1:28:19

some people have given this one star. It really has polarised

1:28:22

people in this. I'm probably – I'm

1:28:25

not in the one star camp. I'm probably

1:28:27

in the two star camp. I'm not in the killer with fire

1:28:29

camp. No, not in the killer with fire. Just lightly toast it,

1:28:31

I would say, would be for me. Since the

1:28:34

edges. Yeah. But I have

1:28:36

a spotty relationship with current comedy. For

1:28:38

me, for every big Lebowski, there is

1:28:40

an intolerable cruelty, which I just don't

1:28:42

get. When they go full kooky wacky,

1:28:45

sometimes it just doesn't work with me. And I felt

1:28:47

like this – Sorry, that's a great phrase. Kooky wacky.

1:28:49

Oh no, you've gone full kooky wacky. Oh no. You've

1:28:51

gone kooky wacky. They went a bit kooky wacky here,

1:28:53

but I don't think it's their – I don't think

1:28:55

it's his strongest kooky wacky project. I think,

1:28:58

you know, go kookier, go wackier, but more

1:29:00

importantly, make it funnier. I think it's pretty

1:29:02

kooky. I think it's pretty kooky wacky. I

1:29:05

think they have better kook – well, they're saying, X-ray,

1:29:07

we're flapping into that. Too many kooks, Chris. Too many

1:29:10

kooks. Spoil the broth. But – I

1:29:12

don't mean one Trisha kook here. I'm

1:29:15

confused now. What's happening? We're lapsing into that trap

1:29:17

of Le and the Coen Brothers. It's not the

1:29:19

Coen Brothers. No, it's the A Coen Brothers. Yes,

1:29:22

but you could see, if you were given to

1:29:25

that, you could very easily go,

1:29:27

all right, blood simple, the Joel movie. Raising

1:29:29

Arizona is an Ethan movie. Millers Crossing is

1:29:31

a probably both movie. Barton Fink is a

1:29:33

Joel movie. Well, by that standard, sorry, Millers

1:29:35

Crossing is a Joel movie. Well, maybe, but

1:29:37

I also think there's a little bit of

1:29:40

Ethan because the Millers Crossing is very, very

1:29:42

funny as well. But, so is Barton Fink.

1:29:44

But Barton Fink is just fucking weird. The

1:29:47

Big DeBowski. But it's not as simple

1:29:49

as that. But this definitely feels like

1:29:51

a killer Coen Brothers tribute at times.

1:29:54

But despite the kooky wacky nature of it, I also thought

1:29:56

there was kind of a sweetness to it, which made it work for

1:29:58

me. Marion's character, I think. Yeah,

1:30:01

that relationship I thought was really lovely and

1:30:04

you get a chance for it to really,

1:30:06

really grow, which is an impressive achievement in

1:30:08

a very, very short film. Also,

1:30:10

there's some lines that absolutely floored me and there's

1:30:13

a gag with a newspaper headline that

1:30:16

had me laughing for a solid minute. And

1:30:19

I may have been one of the few people on the

1:30:21

screen laughing, but it was very, very, very

1:30:23

good indeed. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed

1:30:26

it, Jimbo. What can I say? I enjoyed it.

1:30:29

He gave us four stars, four

1:30:31

stars for drive away dolls. Absolute

1:30:34

certifiable madness. There you go. There

1:30:36

you go. You say you had a spotty

1:30:38

relationship with comedy Jimbo. Do

1:30:41

you know who else had a spotty relationship? Tell me. Super

1:30:43

Ted. Another

1:30:46

cutting edge reference for those under the age of

1:30:48

40. Oh, yeah. And

1:30:51

I'm going to do... Next

1:30:58

up is Monster, the new film

1:31:00

from Hirakazu Koriada, the great Japanese

1:31:03

filmmaker. And I can think of only

1:31:05

one person in the world to review this movie. And

1:31:07

that is James. Now this is a funny film. Oh,

1:31:11

the comedy. Oh,

1:31:14

all over the place. No, this is, do

1:31:16

you know what? So this is kind of

1:31:18

a family drama told in a Rashomon styley

1:31:20

whereby it's... That's just your point of

1:31:22

view. Yes, dude. Picked

1:31:25

at sort of three different angles. It

1:31:28

stars Sakura Hando as Saori. She's a single

1:31:30

mother. Eita Nagiyama, who

1:31:32

plays Mr. Hori, who is her son's

1:31:35

teacher. Her son, of course, played by Soya

1:31:37

Kurakawa. He plays her son Minato. And then

1:31:39

the other main character is Hinata Hiragi's character,

1:31:41

Yori. And he's sort of a

1:31:43

boy in Minato's class. And so the first sort

1:31:46

of part of this trip dish is the

1:31:49

boy has had an incident at school. He

1:31:51

seems quite disturbed by it. He throws

1:31:53

himself a moving car. Never go full

1:31:56

Ladybird. And his mother goes to school

1:31:58

to essentially complain. The

1:32:00

scene whereby she has it out with the

1:32:02

headmistress, who has suffered a recent bereavement and

1:32:04

there's a whole complication there as well, is

1:32:07

fascinating because it's common sense butting

1:32:09

up against institutional obstinance, it's frustration,

1:32:11

it's brilliantly acted incredibly affecting. And

1:32:13

you think you know exactly what

1:32:15

this film is, what its tone

1:32:17

is, what its genre is and

1:32:19

where your sympathies are supposed to

1:32:21

lie. And then the film

1:32:23

stops and it resets. And it

1:32:26

starts again from Mr. Hori's perspective. And

1:32:28

then it's almost like a satire. And

1:32:31

it feels like a very different film covering the

1:32:33

same events but with slightly different overlaps. And

1:32:36

your sympathies again are totally in a completely different direction.

1:32:39

And then it resets again and is

1:32:41

from a different perspective once more. And is again a

1:32:43

different genre, it's more of a love story and again

1:32:45

it has a real bittersweet feel to it, like it

1:32:48

feels very different thing. And I really

1:32:50

like this, I thought it was very affecting, it's kind

1:32:52

of created this fascination with family dynamics when it comes

1:32:54

to the fore here. It's

1:32:57

what it doesn't do, which a lot of

1:32:59

these multiple perspective stories does is pull back

1:33:02

the curtain a little bit with each new perspective. So you see

1:33:04

a larger picture and by the end you see the entire thing,

1:33:06

you know exactly what it is. This asks

1:33:08

more questions than it answers and at the end if

1:33:10

possible you are more confused than you are when it

1:33:12

began. But actually for the good,

1:33:14

it's a really rewarding experience. It's quite dense

1:33:16

at times but yeah I thought it was

1:33:19

great. Really really enjoyed it.

1:33:21

Yeah it is slow,

1:33:23

it's just over two hours and there were times

1:33:25

when I felt that I

1:33:28

was like oh are we just starting

1:33:30

a new story. Oh okay. Fine, some

1:33:32

time still still. But everything

1:33:35

in it was well done and the

1:33:37

performances in particular, the child performances I

1:33:39

thought were really really impressive and it's

1:33:41

really beautifully done. And I think it's

1:33:44

just really fascinating to get into this

1:33:46

idea of how well do we really know

1:33:48

and understand each other and even when we

1:33:50

think we've got it all figured out, do

1:33:52

we actually and are our own

1:33:54

fears and our own paranoia sort of

1:33:56

shaping the way we're seeing the

1:33:58

people around us. And

1:34:00

that I thought it was kind of an it gave you

1:34:02

a lot to think about in that says I had I

1:34:05

think I might have been a Bit confused by the ending

1:34:07

I seem to have had a different read on it to

1:34:09

most people and most reviews that I've read

1:34:11

since So I think I perhaps

1:34:14

Over analyze that one, but no, I liked your

1:34:16

read on it I'm not gonna mention it here But I

1:34:18

made me think about the ending slightly differently because I hadn't

1:34:20

I hadn't seen that in it when I watched it So

1:34:22

it's a I don't know if I'm if I'm sort

1:34:24

of right on that or not But I didn't really I don't think

1:34:27

it matters Yeah, I think it's just a way of seeing it and

1:34:29

and and whatever way you see

1:34:31

it I think it's a beautifully acted beautifully directed

1:34:33

drama and what's also

1:34:35

interesting is the title which is deliberately

1:34:37

Ambiguous and your interpretation of that title

1:34:39

again transforms and evolves as this film

1:34:41

goes along. Yes We

1:34:43

should also mention that this is the last

1:34:45

film of Riechi Sakamoto the legendary composer who

1:34:47

passed away Before this film was completed

1:34:50

in fact wasn't able to write a full score for

1:34:52

this movie and Sony Only would a

1:34:54

couple of pieces. Yeah, and the rest is supplemented

1:34:56

from newish work of his But

1:34:59

yeah, go in here for that as well

1:35:01

four stars and for a monster, which is

1:35:03

terrific Finally and very very quickly this week.

1:35:05

We have Warwick Thornton's The New Boy, which

1:35:08

stars Kate Blanchett But Helen they didn't have

1:35:10

Kate Blanchett with the budget. This is a

1:35:12

fairly low budget Movie

1:35:15

isn't Australian film. Yeah, it is. So it's

1:35:17

set in a remote Orphanage

1:35:20

slash get her Catholic run orphanage in

1:35:22

the 1940s in the outback and

1:35:24

a little boy played by as one read who

1:35:26

isn't named the character isn't named is

1:35:29

brought to this orphanage in the middle of the

1:35:31

night and greeted by sister

1:35:34

Eileen played by Blanchett and Who

1:35:36

is? She's like, oh, yes,

1:35:39

the priest who's running the place isn't here right now, but

1:35:41

I'll take him Yeah, so a sign fine for him kind of

1:35:43

thing. So you've got this Aboriginal

1:35:45

child who is Kind

1:35:48

of fascinated by and very in touch with and

1:35:51

the natural world So and

1:35:53

he seems to have almost magical powers. He

1:35:55

can he can conjure little balls of light

1:35:57

He can he can heal small hurts and

1:35:59

things like that that. And there's

1:36:01

kind of a magical realist thing going on

1:36:03

immediately. But it's about him sort of being

1:36:05

absorbed into this world and sometimes

1:36:08

budging up against it. He doesn't really have any interest in

1:36:10

the religion that they're trying to teach him in

1:36:12

the sort of the manners and the mores

1:36:14

that they're trying to impose on him. But

1:36:16

at the same time, he is quite fascinated actually by

1:36:19

some of the trappings of religion by a statue that they

1:36:22

have of Jesus on the cross. He finds

1:36:24

that interesting. And as

1:36:26

they discover some of his abilities and some

1:36:28

of his powers and so on, Sister Eileen

1:36:31

becomes convinced that he is a miracle

1:36:33

child, you know, assigned from God and

1:36:35

is like redoubling her efforts to kind

1:36:37

of draw him into the church

1:36:39

and draw him into her

1:36:42

religion. So there's definitely a very clear

1:36:44

colonial discussion going

1:36:46

on here about the attempt

1:36:49

to erase Aboriginal culture and the attempt to

1:36:51

conform and enforce

1:36:54

Western culture

1:36:57

onto an Aboriginal child and to wipe

1:36:59

out his native understanding. And

1:37:02

that's quite affecting and quite emotional when you

1:37:04

get into that. There's also a whole thing

1:37:06

going on about Sister Eileen herself who is

1:37:08

living this very precarious life where

1:37:11

she is not meant to be in charge of this.

1:37:13

This is not a convent. She is not supposed to

1:37:15

be the person running the place. And she's kind of

1:37:17

hiding the fact that she is for reasons

1:37:19

that become clear as the film goes on.

1:37:21

So it's a very delicate balance all round.

1:37:24

And it's this very isolated little group of

1:37:26

people in the middle of nowhere, you know,

1:37:28

three adults and a bunch

1:37:31

of children in this sort of

1:37:33

vast open space. So

1:37:35

yeah, it's a very

1:37:37

kind of beautiful film. It

1:37:40

looks gorgeous, you know, endless

1:37:42

sort of rolling hills around

1:37:44

them. And this small boy, I

1:37:46

mean, I thought Reid was fantastic in this

1:37:48

sort of tale of role. I thought he

1:37:50

was really, really moving without

1:37:53

really saying almost anything. And

1:37:56

you focus on him and you focus on his kind of like

1:37:58

child's eye view of the world. world. But

1:38:01

then you also have all these big ideas

1:38:03

kind of feeding into the film and shaping

1:38:05

it. So a little bit slow

1:38:07

again, a little bit kind of, you

1:38:10

know, small scale

1:38:12

in some respect, but

1:38:14

beautifully played and nicely put together,

1:38:17

I thought, by Warwick Thornton. Indeed. Who also

1:38:19

shot Fast Charlie, by the way. Oh, wow.

1:38:22

Yeah. A big week for him.

1:38:24

A big week for him. Maybe he was like Clark Kent

1:38:26

and Superman and Superman for The Quest for Peace. And he

1:38:28

just kind of double dating and going back and forth in

1:38:30

a restaurant. Makes sense. Between Lois

1:38:33

Laney. Whichever Hemingway is in that

1:38:35

film. I think it's Margot, isn't

1:38:37

it? Margot Hemingway is in that film? I

1:38:39

think so. Maybe. One of them.

1:38:42

Certainly not Ernest. It's not Ernest. Definitely not

1:38:44

Ernest. It's definitely not Ernest Hemingway. Do you

1:38:46

know that Ernest Hemingway, as a journalist, got

1:38:49

paid the equivalent of £21 a word in

1:38:51

today's money? I'm

1:38:54

sorry. Say again. He got paid $2

1:38:56

a word, which in 1930 or

1:38:58

whatever, which would be the equivalent of $21 a day. Dollars,

1:39:03

sorry, not points. A day in

1:39:05

today's money. For that money, I'd write a lot more than

1:39:07

just a farewell to arms. That's

1:39:10

in his journalism, not even his books. Anyway.

1:39:12

Don't even get me started. Anyway,

1:39:16

three stars then for The New Boy? Three stars

1:39:18

for The New Boy. Three stars for The New

1:39:20

Boy. There we go. And that is it on

1:39:22

that note. That is it for this week's Empire

1:39:24

podcast. Join us next week for

1:39:26

more film-related fun. Next week sees

1:39:28

the release of Ghostbusters Frozen Empire.

1:39:31

Yeah. So we'll be joined by... Who

1:39:33

you gonna call? Sydney

1:39:37

Sweeney. That's right. The star

1:39:39

of Immaculate, the new nun-based

1:39:41

horror film, which is coming out next

1:39:43

week as well. The new nun-based horror

1:39:46

film. There was one

1:39:48

a minute ago and there'll be one in

1:39:50

a couple of weeks time and one just

1:39:52

beyond that as well. So

1:39:54

that's very exciting. Sydney Sweeney, she's having a moment.

1:39:57

And what greater pedestal for this week's episode.

1:40:00

her to to ascend to then the Empire podcast

1:40:02

but who else you gonna call? Oh,

1:40:05

Ghostbusters? Ernie Hudson. Oh. Only bloody Winston

1:40:07

said more on the Empire podcast. Very,

1:40:09

very excited about that. I don't know

1:40:11

who's gonna be doing that because that's

1:40:13

happening when we're in Dublin.

1:40:15

So that's gonna be fun. That's gonna

1:40:17

be exciting. Bring him over. Bring him

1:40:20

over. Yes, Ernie, are you busy? We

1:40:22

could kidnap him. We could.

1:40:24

Great idea. Apart from I'm your lawyer.

1:40:26

So as your lawyer, no. Hey look,

1:40:28

plausible reliability. If there's a study paycheck

1:40:30

in it, he'll be the kind of

1:40:32

thing you want. So we just go

1:40:34

two pounds a word. Oh, that's Ernie's

1:40:36

Hemi weight, damn it. But

1:40:38

yeah, we just go come over here. Come over

1:40:41

here, Ernie Hudson, and then bag

1:40:44

over the head onto the plane. Again,

1:40:46

as your lawyer, no, I don't recommend it. You're absolutely right.

1:40:48

Sorry. They wouldn't let him on the plane with the bag over

1:40:50

his head. They wouldn't get through my passport

1:40:52

control. Bag over the head

1:40:54

into the hold. Oh no. And

1:40:57

then into Dublin, bag

1:40:59

off the head. Great podcast.

1:41:02

Way raw friends back

1:41:04

on the plane. Yeah. By which point

1:41:06

he would have forgiven us. Wow.

1:41:08

It's a fascinating plan, Chris.

1:41:10

It's just a couple of tiny little details that

1:41:13

we need to work out. You

1:41:15

cannot be arrested for kidnapping someone

1:41:17

in England and take them to

1:41:19

Ireland. You absolutely can be shit.

1:41:21

Really? Yeah. Oh God. Okay.

1:41:23

I have to go and make some

1:41:25

calls and, um, burn

1:41:27

some paperwork. Right. That

1:41:30

is definitely it. I will also be joined

1:41:32

by these two idiots as well, which is

1:41:34

fun and exciting. And we will be in

1:41:36

Dublin couple of remaining tickets for the laughter

1:41:38

lounge show on the 21st. So do come

1:41:40

along and see us. It's going to be

1:41:42

an absolutely cracking night, but until then, until

1:41:45

that auspicious occasion until we meet again is

1:41:47

goodbye from James Dyer, who

1:41:49

I think is actually asleep. And

1:41:52

so to bed. You're

1:41:55

just staring at me through eyes at his. The best

1:41:57

part of it is I have to go straight from

1:41:59

here to. to aim to our Netflix presentation and then

1:42:01

go watch Roadhouse so there will be no bed for

1:42:04

me for a while. I'm really excited

1:42:06

about seeing Roadhouse if I can stay awake.

1:42:08

Sounds exciting. Yeah, there you go. It's also

1:42:10

goodbye from Helen O'Hara. Toodaloo. Toodaloo.

1:42:13

Toodaloo. And it's goodbye from me. I'm off to

1:42:15

prepare for our Dublin show, the only way I

1:42:17

know how, by learning the dialect and the accent

1:42:19

of the local people. Oh, God. I'm

1:42:22

going to blend in, disappear with any local

1:42:24

you've got to grail already. Jesus. You

1:42:26

best believe in ghosts. Sorry, it's just fun. You're

1:42:28

in. Apparently, it's his

1:42:30

Irish accent. Jesus, what the fuck are we doing?

1:42:34

Anyway, thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye.