1:40

I'm

2:00

an investor to my boss and a department of about 10

2:02

people. I'm in IT so

2:06

I'd be the vice president of technology

2:08

for the company. And if

2:11

I was hired, it was very

2:13

well apparent that I was the guy that was coming

2:15

to replace my boss. And

2:18

that's how it's been communicated

2:20

to me and the executive management.

2:23

However, my team does not know

2:25

that. Why? Well,

2:29

there's a guy in the department. Why did you

2:31

all not tell the team what was going on? Well,

2:35

there's a guy in the department that's been there almost 20 years

2:38

who thinks that he's getting the role,

2:41

but has proven even the four months

2:43

that I'm there he's not. But

2:45

you already, he wasn't getting the role when

2:47

they hired you. Correct.

2:50

Why hadn't they already handled this before they brought you

2:52

in? That's

2:54

kind of why I'm calling. I had a conversation

2:57

with my boss and I had

2:59

a conversation with HR just like, hey,

3:03

you know, one of the issues is a wit. Well,

3:06

that's one of the issues that I can't afford to lose

3:09

them because you're going to lose them because your boss

3:11

is a wuss. Well,

3:15

I think it's an interesting situation that

3:18

a company has grown quite a bit over the years.

3:21

And this round of leadership

3:23

that's getting ready to retire is really the main

3:26

growth of the business. I

3:28

don't think they know how to handle something like

3:30

this. Obviously. Yeah. Yeah.

3:34

Because they mishandled. It's not fair to the poor guy. He's

3:36

been working his butt off for 20 years. He

3:38

thinks he's in line for a promotion. They hire

3:41

a guy who probably is more qualified. He

3:43

probably wasn't ready for the promotion. He probably

3:46

just thinks he is. But they did not

3:48

handle that. Instead, they swept that under the rug

3:50

and surprise along comes will.

3:53

Oh my gosh, the poor guy. You

3:56

didn't know it. I'm not fussing at you, but your leaders,

3:58

man, they let the poor guy. down and

4:01

he's going to be disillusioned if he stays you're

4:03

going to have a bad team member and if he and he's

4:05

probably going to leave. Well

4:08

I can sense a little bit that he's seen

4:10

the rain on the walls and he doesn't

4:13

matter. He's feeling easy hurt when the writing

4:15

is put in spotlight. Absolutely,

4:17

absolutely and so yeah I'm just

4:19

trying to understand how to navigate this it's a great

4:22

company, great culture. I think

4:24

this is just one of those situations

4:26

that they're not sure how to manage and I want

4:29

to make sure it's done right because I don't want to lose the guy

4:32

and... Sorry you don't have that

4:34

option it's already too late it's not been done right

4:37

and so the only question now is how big the damage

4:39

is going to actually be. I'll give you

4:41

a 90% probability based on my experience this

4:44

guy hits a jack. I don't

4:46

think he stays. If I were him I

4:48

probably wouldn't stay. Just

4:51

because it's been handled, mishandled

4:54

by the people that hired you and so

4:57

honestly it's not your job. They should go

4:59

in, the guy that hired you should go in and sit

5:01

down with whoever the guy's name is and

5:03

say listen I made a grave error.

5:07

You've been here 20 years I should

5:09

have been straight with you and told you that

5:12

we were hiring Will for this position and

5:15

Will was brought in to take this position. I know

5:17

you had your eye on it and I love

5:19

you and I didn't want to hurt your feelings and in the process

5:21

of doing that I'm actually probably hurting your feelings

5:24

more and I'm so sorry I goofed up

5:26

as a leader and that's your leader

5:28

script. Now

5:30

if your leader won't do that that's your only

5:33

shot at maybe but

5:35

I'm still telling you I think the guy's gone but

5:38

that's the proper thing to do that's what

5:40

should have been done before you were put on there in there. You

5:43

can't do it you can't do it you don't

5:45

have any you don't have any street cred with the guy.

5:49

He doesn't know what you think you're just

5:51

the things that took his position. Not

5:54

to mention I'm 20 years younger than him. There's

5:56

that too yeah it makes it even harder yeah

5:58

I mean you are in a... were left in an untenable

6:01

position by weak leaders. So

6:03

you may have a great culture, but your leader was

6:05

weak. And

6:07

I will say that, that boldly, and I have

6:09

been the guy that did crap like that too. So

6:12

I've made the exact same mistake. That's why I'm passionate

6:14

about it. Because in the name of

6:16

not hurting someone's feelings, I ended up hurting their feelings

6:19

worse later. That's

6:21

me. And that's what your boss did,

6:23

or the guy that brought you in did. So I'll

6:26

tell your boss, listen back to this podcast when we play

6:28

it. And he owes the guy an apology.

6:31

He screwed up. And

6:34

good leaders got the backbone to

6:36

sit down and apologize if they screwed up. And it

6:38

just says, you know, hey Charlie, or whatever his name

6:40

is, you know, you've been here 20 years,

6:43

you do a great job. I honestly

6:45

didn't think you could fill this role. So I brought Will

6:48

in to fill the role. And I should have told

6:50

you that beforehand. And

6:52

I'm so sorry. I owed you

6:55

more than that. You've earned more than

6:57

that. And I let you down. I'm so sorry. I

6:59

hope you'll forgive me. And I hope you'll stay because you're

7:02

valuable to us. We just didn't see you

7:04

filling this role. And

7:06

you know, Will, I mean the guy will go through

7:08

all of his emotions and he's probably

7:10

gone. But I hope no. I think

7:13

he's seen the right on the walls because he's

7:15

got a friend to me. I'm

7:17

sorry, Will. Him

7:19

having hints is different

7:21

than him being treated with respect. Understood.

7:25

The lack of respect that'll cause him

7:27

to eject. Not missing the position.

7:31

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. That's what you're

7:33

dealing with. And so you know, I tried

7:36

to use that in my mind too. That's why I'm cutting you

7:38

off when I made this same exact

7:40

mistake. And I've made it more than once sadly, because

7:42

in the name of being nice, I know I sound

7:45

real rough on the radio, on the podcast,

7:47

but in the name of being nice, I have been

7:49

horribly unclear

7:51

at times and I have

7:53

accidentally caused more damage than actually

7:56

just telling the freaking truth would have done. So

7:58

I know how this feels. I wanted to justify

8:01

it and go, well, they should have known cause I

8:03

mean, if they were more self-aware, they

8:05

would know they didn't have the chops to cover the job.

8:07

And so I try to put it back on them, but it was, you

8:09

know, it's just my fault. And

8:12

it, this falls squarely on the shoulders

8:14

of your leader. And I, if I

8:16

were you, I'd sit down with him and say, listen, I

8:18

think we need to retain this guy. And I think the only shot

8:21

we've got at retaining him is you going in and say, you

8:23

messed up by not telling him and you apologize

8:25

into him. That's the only shot. And

8:27

I really do think that's the right thing to

8:30

do. Even if the guy leaves is

8:32

still the right thing to do, to give him the honor

8:35

of 20 years of showing him some respect.

8:39

Even if he can't do the job. And I

8:41

will tell you, you're going to run into this again, cause you're in a

8:43

growth curve industry. We've run into it where

8:45

somebody has been here a long time and

8:48

I love them. And it's, uh,

8:52

they just do not have the tools

8:54

in their belt to do the next thing that

8:56

we're going to go do. And I have to bring

8:58

someone in, in addition to them, I don't fire

9:01

them, but they don't get that promotion

9:03

because they just can't, they can't handle it.

9:06

And it's, it is hurtful, but

9:08

it's a lot more hurtful when you wait

9:10

till later to tell them, ouch,

9:13

that's how this works. Yeah.

9:18

When you delay these things, you make them worse

9:21

every time kicking

9:23

the can down the road, just hurts your toe. It

9:25

just, it just leaves a bloody toe. That's all you get.

9:28

Bloody toe kicks can every

9:30

time I've done it and I'm as guilty

9:32

as y'all are, you know, but we got

9:34

to stop doing it. It's weak leadership. You

9:37

guys, this is the entree leadership.

9:39

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9:43

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9:46

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9:53

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netsuite.com.

11:03

To get your own KPI

11:05

checklist for full. Well

11:08

after 30 years of doing this we know that our business

11:10

and particularly small

11:13

businesses go through 5 stages

11:16

of business. The treadmill operator

11:18

where you're on your own and you feel like you're stuck on a treadmill,

11:21

everything depends on you. That's how you start. And

11:23

then you move to pathfinder, then to trailblazer,

11:25

then to peak performer, and finally to legacy

11:28

builder where you start talking about succession

11:30

plans and exit plans.

11:32

And you can

11:34

go through those

11:36

in 5 years or in 50 years. But

11:38

you're going to go through the 5 stages and you really don't get

11:40

to skip a stage. Sometimes you go through one faster than

11:42

another, but that's the process we teach. And

11:45

if you've been listening to us for a while you've probably

11:47

heard me tell other callers mention the stage of business

11:49

they're in, but how do you find out

11:51

what stage you're in so you know how to level up

11:53

and get to the next stage? Well the Ontario Leadership

11:56

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of business assessment. It'll

12:00

help you easily and accurately identify

12:03

exactly where your business is today.

12:06

Then you'll know what to do, what to work on,

12:08

so that you can level up, like I was saying, and push on through

12:11

to the next thing. Click the link in the show

12:13

notes or go to Entreleadership.com to

12:15

find out which stage of

12:17

business you're in. Cami is

12:19

with us. Cami is in Idaho, Pocatello

12:22

to be precise. Hi, Cami, how are you? Hi,

12:25

Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve.

12:27

What's up?

12:29

So, I am a CEO

12:32

inventor of a business-to-business

12:34

company selling directly to salons

12:37

across the U.S. We have

12:40

been selling

12:40

since February and we've made about $30,000. Good

12:43

for you. Way to go.

12:45

Oh, really? Yeah. Okay, people have

12:47

told me that's not good. Well, February

12:50

and you made $30,000 in your first year? Yeah.

12:53

Okay. A lot of people lost $30,000 in their

12:55

first year. By

13:01

yourself, you're doing this as a treadmill?

13:03

There are four of us

13:05

who are C-suite, which is kind of funny

13:07

considering how small we are, and then five people

13:10

who sell for us part-time. Okay.

13:12

So, the five

13:14

people that are selling aren't selling a lot then. That's

13:17

not, $30,000, they're not making a living, are they?

13:19

They're not. They're doing this as

13:21

a side hustle.

13:24

Why can you not sell enough to make it a

13:26

full-time job?

13:28

Because and that's my question, I don't

13:30

know how to find good salespeople. Training,

13:33

I'm

13:34

a chemist

13:35

and selling

13:37

scares me really bad. When

13:39

I go out and sell, I throw

13:42

up or I cry. A

13:44

little bit in my mouth, yeah, I understand. And

13:49

I'm trying to find good salespeople.

13:52

Okay, listen, what do you make? Right

13:56

now, I'm totally in the business,

13:59

so I don't bring any...

13:59

I'm sorry, what is the product that you make?

14:02

Oh, okay. It's a

14:05

brand new

14:06

treatment for hair. Does

14:08

it work? I have a patent

14:09

on it, yes. Do you believe in it? If

14:13

somebody buys it, is it good for them to buy it? Yes,

14:17

it will change their hair. Okay, not

14:19

mine, but somebody else's, you know. Not

14:21

yours. Okay,

14:24

too late on some people, but yeah. All

14:27

right, all right, so here's the thing. The

14:29

reason I asked you those questions, I was setting you up. Yes.

14:33

The best salespeople are

14:35

not salespeople.

14:37

Okay, they're teachers? They're servants.

14:40

Okay. They believe that

14:43

this product should be in everyone's

14:46

hair because their hair will be better.

14:49

Okay. And they believe if they don't talk you

14:51

into it, that they let you down.

14:54

Okay.

14:55

So, quit looking for salespeople and look for servants.

14:59

Okay. The way I like to think about the best salesperson

15:01

in the world is a fine dining

15:03

experience with a white tablecloth. And

15:07

they come in and they say, Dave,

15:10

we're so glad you're at the restaurant. Tonight,

15:12

our special is

15:16

da da da da da da da da. And the perfect

15:18

wine, we know you love wine, the perfect

15:20

wine will go with that, is this. And

15:24

if you want to continue to look through the menu, you can, but I

15:27

gotta tell you, this is what I would do if I were sitting

15:29

in that seat. And every

15:31

time my water glass is half empty,

15:33

not one inch empty, but half empty, they're

15:35

filling it up and we don't even realize they're there.

15:38

And Sharon and I have a wonderful conversation

15:41

over a incredible meal and

15:43

we don't even realize the service has occurred.

15:46

And when we get done, we realize that we've had a world-class

15:51

waiter service.

15:52

Right?

15:54

Yes. Okay. I

15:56

got what I wanted. I was a customer. Had an incredible

15:59

experience. I had incredible. food. I was

16:01

never thirsty. I was never hungry.

16:03

I wasn't waiting on the bill for 45 minutes

16:06

while they waited seven other tables. They were

16:09

there with the bill at the end. You know,

16:11

when I sat down they're already pouring

16:13

a glass of something. I mean it was

16:15

from from from soup to nuts a wonderful

16:18

experience and it was all because

16:20

that person saw their job as an

16:22

opportunity to serve someone and create

16:24

an experience for them and that's what

16:26

selling is. So when I teach you to

16:29

go get Entre leadership elite

16:31

it's because it's incredible and if you run

16:33

a small business you ought to be in it. By

16:35

the way we're gonna sign you up for it as my gift. That's how

16:37

much I believe in it and you need to be in it because

16:39

you need to watch this lesson about

16:41

serving is selling selling

16:43

is serving and it changes

16:46

everything and then you'll quit feeling nervous about it

16:48

because you're gonna go in and go it's my job

16:51

to make sure these folks know how awesome this

16:53

is and it's not an ego thing. Financial

16:55

Peace University I invented it. You know 10

16:57

million people have been through it. It was me

17:00

on the videos but it's not an ego thing.

17:02

The proven facts are is that the average

17:04

family that goes through financial peace university pays

17:06

off $5,300 in debt and saves $2,700 in the first 90

17:09

days. That's an $8,000 change in position. They only paid 80

17:14

bucks to go through it. That's called an incredible

17:17

deal. I can change people's lives

17:19

if they go through this. If I don't get them

17:21

to go through it I let them down. Do you see how

17:23

I'm feeling? Yes.

17:25

That's how you feel about your product isn't it? Yes.

17:29

Okay that's selling. You're

17:32

serving. You're serving. It's not manipulating

17:35

someone into doing something against their

17:38

will, twisting their arm and

17:40

peddling snake oil. That's

17:42

not selling. That's ripping people

17:45

off. Yes. And

17:47

that's not what you're doing. You have a quality

17:49

product. I suppose you

17:51

believe you do and I believe you do because you said it. You

17:54

have a quality product at a reasonable price

17:56

that creates outstanding

17:59

results. And

18:01

to not tell someone about it would be a sin.

18:06

That's a good way to look at it. I mean, that's

18:09

serving. I'm serving

18:11

you. I'm helping you. This is a great

18:13

bottle of wine to go with this flaming

18:16

yawn. Oh my gosh. And the lobster

18:18

tail, if you add that, oh, serpent turf,

18:20

here we go. Game on, boys! I mean,

18:23

right? I mean, we're having an experience here, right?

18:26

And that's, you know, if you buy

18:29

something from someone who is slimy,

18:31

you end up buying it against your

18:33

will. You were not served. And

18:35

you've had that experience, and that's why you

18:38

hate the idea of sales. Yes.

18:41

But there are times you've bought something when you were completely

18:44

served, and you were unbelievably glad that

18:46

you did business with that company and bought

18:48

that product or service, isn't there? Yes.

18:52

I bought a car not long ago. The guy was incredible. He

18:55

was one of the best salesmen I run into a long time. I tried to

18:57

hire him. I mean, he was incredible.

19:00

And he just, but he took care of it. It was a

19:02

luxury freaking experience, expensive

19:04

car, but it was a luxury experience.

19:07

And it made me want to go back and get another one. You know, I mean, it's

19:10

like, gosh, you know, and so,

19:13

and guess what? Guess where I'll go for my next car. Hello.

19:16

You know, as long as they've got a good one. But I mean, you know, but that's,

19:18

that's, you know, so that's what you're going to do. Now,

19:20

so what you're looking for are

19:23

crusaders, not salespeople, not

19:26

someone who's trying to make a buck off of somebody,

19:30

not motivated only by commission.

19:32

They're motivated because their hair

19:34

was changed by your product

19:37

and they feel obligated to tell the world

19:39

about it. So

19:43

you might hire them out of some

19:45

of, um, some,

19:47

some of the salons even there,

19:49

maybe somebody that's in a salon that would

19:51

make a lot more money selling for you

19:54

full time if they sold a bunch of this

19:56

stuff. And if you paid a good commission,

19:58

right, they might make a lot more money. more money passionately

20:01

selling something they believe in than actually

20:03

working in the salon. That's possible. And

20:05

of course that depends on the pricing of the product

20:08

and the comp structure and all that kind of stuff to go with

20:10

it. But I think you're incredible.

20:13

And so what I had to learn to do, because

20:15

there's always haters out there, you're

20:18

just a grifter, you're taking advantage

20:21

of poor people. No, I'm making poor people not poor

20:23

anymore. It's stupid. So you

20:25

know, that doesn't make me a grifter. It makes

20:27

you an idiot. You know, so there's always

20:30

haters out there. And so anytime

20:32

you do anything in volume, you can count on that

20:35

and little people that don't understand little

20:39

in terms of their minds that don't

20:41

understand. You're gonna have some of that, but that

20:43

doesn't matter to a Crusader. To

20:46

a Crusader, you're doing the right thing. You believe

20:48

in what you're doing. And I

20:50

think you're incredible. And I can just

20:52

sense off of you that this is gonna be highly successful.

20:55

I think it's gonna be thirty thousand to three hundred thousand

20:58

to three million. And you're gonna have problems

21:00

with the volume of production. I

21:02

hope that's your problem, not a marketing problem. So

21:05

you're looking for Crusaders that are servants. You're

21:08

not looking for people who manipulate to take people's

21:10

money. There's no magic little

21:12

phrase or script that you can say

21:15

and take money from intelligent people. I

21:17

mean, you can take it from dumb people that way, but you can't take

21:20

it from intelligent people. And these are salons

21:22

you want to do business with you over and over and over again.

21:24

So we hope they're intelligent enough to stay open. And that's

21:27

the beauty of a B2B transaction. You are

21:29

usually dealing with a more intelligent human. So

21:32

it's an easier sale to make,

21:34

but it requires some passionate belief

21:37

in the act of service,

21:40

not selling. That, by the way, focuses

21:42

a video that you can watch in

21:45

Entre Leadership Elite. So

21:47

check out Entre Leadership Elite. Go

21:49

watch that video and you'll see all the other

21:51

videos on how to run a business in there. We're

21:54

gonna do that. We're gonna sign Cami up and get her going.

21:56

Get her a free description. Get

21:58

her started.

21:59

This is the Entrez Leadership Podcast.

22:05

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is the Entrez Leadership

22:07

Podcast designed for businesses

22:10

and people worried about thinking about

22:12

and fretting about leadership that

22:15

have team members from anywhere from about five

22:17

team members up to about 200. And

22:21

if you're managing 15,000 people, I'll give you

22:23

advice if you want, but I've never done that. Our

22:25

company is about 1,100 folks, about $300

22:28

million a year. And the principals

22:30

will work in a larger company. We know that. They

22:33

worked when we were a smaller company, and now they work

22:35

for us. But overall, that's who

22:37

we're talking about and who we're talking to. And by

22:39

the way, 54% of the gross domestic product

22:41

in America, that's over

22:43

half of the economy is created

22:46

by businesses in the size of five to 200

22:50

team members. Small business is literally,

22:53

mathematically, the backbone

22:55

of the U.S. economy. In spite

22:57

of Washington, D.C., trying to poison small

23:00

businesses as a full-time job, they've

23:02

got legislation laying up there right now

23:05

that they're supposed to pass, to put back

23:07

in place some of the tax breaks for small businesses

23:10

that they accidentally took away because they were

23:12

stupid and they can't even seem to get it passed. But

23:15

they can't find their butt with both hands up there.

23:17

So that's the way that works. Am I

23:19

bitter? Yes, I'm getting ready to write a tax check

23:21

because of these idiots. So there you go.

23:25

But hey, we in small business know that

23:27

we are who make the things go around

23:29

out here. We're the ones that get stuff done, boys

23:31

and girls. And I'm here to help you. If

23:33

you want to be on the show, call me at 844-944-1070. That's

23:37

844-944-1070. We're

23:42

glad you're with us. By the way, if you like the show, please

23:44

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would appreciate it greatly.

25:45

She

26:00

doesn't work there, right?

26:02

No, she she does work with the

26:04

company. Okay. Um, she does our

26:07

marketing and obviously

26:09

any major business decisions we're

26:12

gonna open up another store or Acquire

26:15

another company or something like that. She's

26:17

you know, she's really the right hand

26:19

woman. I should say so Okay,

26:23

she's very smart and I think people work on your team.

26:26

We have about eight people

26:27

Okay. All right. And

26:29

do she get paid for

26:31

the marketing or just gets paid out of profits?

26:34

So we both just get paid

26:37

out of the profits. Okay, but we do

26:39

take a

26:40

annual Withdraw

26:42

before the profit. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine

26:44

But I might not quote salary that

26:46

you get a CEO or salary that she gets

26:49

his marketing, which is fine That's perfectly fine. No

26:51

problem with that at all. Okay. Yeah. No,

26:53

we lump it together So we we I

26:56

don't know the divorce court laws

26:58

in New Mexico, but I suspect she probably owns

27:00

half of this anyway Right

27:03

in the event of a divorce she would probably get

27:06

rights to half of it particularly since she works

27:08

in it I don't again.

27:10

I don't I'm not an attorney in New Mexico. So But

27:13

it's real simple Sharon is on

27:16

all of our LLCs in Some

27:18

cases Sharon's the only one on them from

27:21

a risk management perspective. I own so few

27:23

things nowadays It's ridiculous In

27:26

case somebody wanted to sue Dave Ramsey, he really doesn't own

27:28

anything, you know, it's pretty interesting. But yeah, technically

27:31

speaking so Yeah,

27:34

so that's fine. How

27:36

long y'all been married?

27:39

Five years. Okay, everything's going good

27:41

then

27:42

marriage. Well, it's going good. We have to you know, we have

27:44

two small children There you

27:46

know four and two so we have a lot going on

27:48

for sure Sharon's on all the accounts

27:50

here as a signatory

27:52

and she's in every at least 50% in

27:56

every LLC in some cases. She's 100% of it depending

28:00

on where it falls in our state plan. I've got a bunch of

28:02

LLCs, so, you

28:05

know, and different things. Now, what

28:07

I would do is call, that's

28:09

an easy one. Just call the attorney and give her half the LLC.

28:12

It's not a problem. It doesn't, all it does is just do

28:14

what's probably already there anyway. She probably

28:16

has marital rights to the assets anyway, but

28:19

it's okay. And it's

28:21

a way to honor and to say that. So

28:24

then we, the

28:27

one thing I will advise you that is not what you called

28:29

about, but to be careful of your roles

28:32

at work. You described her as

28:35

two things as of today. She's

28:38

now one of the owners and

28:40

gets paid out of the profits. You're one

28:42

of the owners and gets paid out of the profits. And

28:44

she also does marketing and

28:47

you're the

28:48

CEO. When

28:50

the business gets ready to expand, you

28:54

guys put on an owner hat and

28:56

the two owners sit down and decide as

28:59

owners, both having a vote in

29:01

your mutual, in your

29:03

relationship. You know, you both

29:05

have a discussion about, okay, we're both gonna

29:08

talk about this. We both value the other one's opinion.

29:10

Do we open another store? Okay, a big

29:12

decision. That's an ownership

29:14

decision. That's not a CEO

29:17

and marketing decision. You follow

29:19

the difference? Yeah, and that makes a

29:21

lot of sense. And then when you walk back into your

29:23

offices after having that discussion, and

29:26

she starts doing some social media buys, some

29:29

paid media buys, or she starts replacing

29:32

some other kind of marketing campaign in place, she

29:34

takes off her owner hat then and

29:36

puts on her marketing vice president

29:38

hat who reports to the CEO. So

29:43

marketing decisions flow up to the CEO's

29:45

office, not the ownership

29:47

office. You follow me?

29:50

Yeah.

29:51

And if you guys will keep those roles, we

29:54

use that hat thing around here all the time. So

29:57

like when we're at Thanksgiving dinner, I'm Papa Dave.

30:00

I got on the papa dave hat. Okay,

30:03

does I got eight seven grand babies running around?

30:05

All right, but it's the same people at that dinner

30:08

that would include Rachel cruise one of the Ramsey personalities

30:11

more sitting here at this desk doing the Ramsey

30:14

show and Rachel cruises a co

30:16

host I've got on my CEO

30:20

hat and my Ramsey personality hat

30:22

and Rachel has on a Ramsey personality hat. I'm not Papa

30:25

Dave then we joke and cut up about it,

30:27

but I'm functioning in the

30:29

role that I'm doing at work. She's functioning the

30:31

role. She does it work. And then when we're

30:33

Thanksgiving dinner, she's my daughter

30:36

and the mother of three of my grandkids. And

30:39

I change hats. And so you've got to

30:41

be able to do that when you're working particularly

30:43

with your spouse. I

30:46

had a guy we did a high end VIP

30:48

thing at one of the entree events and we had 20

30:51

couples 20 people up at

30:53

our house. And this guy and his wife

30:55

were having the same kind of discussion. It's kind

30:57

of an interesting discussion. She was

30:59

his CFO until they figured out they yelled

31:01

at each other all the time and she quit. And

31:04

he said, no, I fired you and she said, no, I quit. And

31:08

and I said, well, here's the problem. You

31:10

would never talk to another CEO the

31:12

way you talk to her. You

31:15

disrespected her and you

31:17

with your screeching wife argument

31:19

would never talk to a CEO like that

31:22

in any other situation unless you

31:24

expected your butt to get fired instantaneously. And

31:28

she said, yeah, I said, so y'all were both

31:30

misbehaving because you were doing it. You're having

31:32

a husband and wife argument instead

31:35

of a CEO and a CFO discussing

31:38

a business situation. And,

31:40

you know, if you're the CFO, you work

31:43

for the CEO. That's

31:45

how that works. You're not in charge

31:48

and you don't get to get your claws out and make it

31:50

otherwise. Now, if we want to go

31:52

home or go to an offsite and sit down

31:54

and say, we both own this thing and as

31:56

two owners, I disagree with you, then

31:59

we could talk about it. that. But you

32:01

don't disrespect each other in the office and

32:03

have a husband and wife fight when

32:05

you shouldn't be having a CFO and CEO

32:08

discussion. And that you're

32:11

not doing that, but that's an extreme example of what

32:13

I'm talking about with you. You've got to be very careful

32:15

to have these roles defined and

32:17

how you and when you're functioning in the different

32:19

roles. So when you guys are making your expansion

32:22

decisions, you're doing that as husband

32:24

and wife owners. But

32:27

when you're doing a marketing campaign, she's

32:29

the marketing director submitting that

32:31

to the CEO. He's approving it and we're

32:34

going off with it. She doesn't run out there and do it

32:36

by herself. She couldn't do that in any

32:38

other organization. There'd be accountability

32:40

for that. And so that's how

32:43

we walk this through. So just be careful with that.

32:45

That's something you didn't ask for, but it comes with the

32:47

price of the call. And the advice here is

32:49

free and some people say it's

32:51

worth exactly what you pay for it. This

32:54

is the Entrez leadership podcast.

32:58

If you're a small business owner and you're ready to

33:00

drive forward through the stages of business,

33:03

then you've got to join Entrez

33:05

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33:08

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33:10

teachings and the practical tools you

33:13

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33:15

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33:18

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33:20

be right there to show you how to do it. So

33:23

check out entrezleadership.com

33:25

slash elite and join today.

33:28

Thanks for joining us.

33:30

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is

33:32

the Entrez leadership podcast. If you want to be

33:34

a caller, call me at 844-944-1070. Leave

33:38

a voicemail. We'll call and get you make you part of this deal.

33:41

We treat it like it's a radio show or something because that's

33:43

how I grew up doing this. And we'll

33:45

turn you into a talk radio caller. First

33:48

time caller, Dave. Long time listener and all that kind of

33:50

crap. You know, no, not really. But anyway, entrezleadership.com

33:53

slash ask. You can also leave

33:55

your question there. We'll get back to you and put you

33:57

on. We would love to have you.

34:00

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for following us, subscribing

34:02

us. The numbers and the ratings have gone up dramatically

34:05

on this show in the past few months because of you.

34:08

And I really do appreciate you. I have a lot of fun,

34:10

carry on like a crazy man, but I'm really

34:12

glad you're there because we love helping small

34:14

business people. You are heroes

34:17

as far as I'm concerned. Adam is

34:19

next in Cookville, Tennessee. Adam,

34:21

how can we help?

34:23

Hey Dave, how are you?

34:25

Better than I deserve, man. What's up? Oh,

34:28

not too much. I am an owner

34:31

operator of a small lawn care

34:33

company. In 2022,

34:35

we did a little over $100,000 in

34:38

revenue, basically just me and my wife and

34:40

one employee. This year we're on

34:43

track to do a little

34:45

over $250,000. And

34:48

basically to give you a quick background, 11 years

34:50

ago, I was in a really

34:54

bad heroin addiction. And

34:56

so when you say you're better than

34:58

you deserve, I truly

35:00

understand what that means and basically

35:02

gave my life to God. And since

35:04

then, I've been working in ministry

35:07

full time and then started the lawn care as part

35:09

time because of my work in ministry. I

35:12

don't get paid for and it helps others that are in addiction.

35:15

So very thankful today. $250,000 part

35:18

time gig. You're amazing. You're working your tail

35:21

off part time. Yes,

35:23

sir. Yeah. Anybody can beat heroin

35:25

as a rock star, man. That's hero stuff. And 11

35:28

years dry, you're amazing. Congratulations.

35:30

I'm proud of you.

35:32

Thank you very much. That means a lot coming

35:34

from you. I really respect you. Well, I'll

35:37

go ahead and get into my question. Basic

35:40

question and then I can give you a little story behind

35:42

it if you'd like. But basically, I've encountered

35:44

this as my business grows a couple of

35:46

times just twice.

35:49

Most of my customers are great, but

35:51

there have been a couple times where people

35:53

just haven't paid their bill.

35:57

Well, the basically.

35:59

send them the invoice, send them another invoice,

36:02

and they basically just don't respond. The

36:06

first case was a minimal amount of

36:08

money, and when

36:10

I went to go knock on their door, they had moved

36:12

out of the house and never

36:16

to be seen again. This most recent time,

36:20

basically the story is we landed

36:22

a large commercial client and

36:24

it was managed by a property management company.

36:28

And basically that property management

36:30

company wasn't managing

36:33

the property well. They were

36:35

lacking a communication. They were doing

36:38

apparently some shady things. But

36:41

long story short, the commercial company

36:43

reached out to me directly because I

36:45

was subcontracting for the management company.

36:49

And they said, hey, we're

36:52

firing this company and

36:54

we want to bring you on full time.

36:57

And basically that company

36:59

found out that I continued

37:02

to work for this commercial site

37:05

and basically just

37:07

told me over the phone, like yeah, we're not paying you,

37:09

and it was a substantial amount. So

37:12

basically moving forward, I wanted- What is the substantial

37:14

amount?

37:16

It was a little over 10,000. Okay,

37:19

did you hire an attorney?

37:21

No, I did not. And a quick

37:23

update, they did end up paying, but my

37:25

question was- Well,

37:30

they owed another contractor about 20,000. And

37:35

he had a pretty big

37:37

company and he had a legal team, ended

37:40

up sending them letters and

37:42

filing, I guess he was gonna file a

37:44

lien on this property, this

37:47

commercial property. And I guess

37:50

once that company found out, then they were like,

37:52

okay, well, we don't wanna mess around

37:54

with that. So they ended up paying all the contractors

37:56

basically. So it turned out okay,

37:59

but my question was- How do I handle

38:01

this? Did I do anything wrong on my

38:03

end? And if someone does not

38:06

pay, what is the proper procedure to

38:09

basically get paid?

38:12

Yeah, okay. Well,

38:14

number one thing, when we have a collections problem

38:16

here, we immediately assume that

38:20

we should not have sold that client

38:23

or we sold them wrong. Okay?

38:26

Right. So selling them wrong means I don't

38:29

set the expectations at the front

38:31

end of the relationship. And

38:33

so it sounds like this. When you

38:35

take on a new client, regardless of who

38:37

it is, if I'm in your shoes,

38:39

it sounds like this. Hey, I

38:42

run a little lawn care business. We're

38:45

not a big business. We're not a

38:47

bank. We don't

38:49

have the money for you to not

38:51

pay us promptly. If you're

38:54

not gonna pay us promptly, I'm

38:56

not gonna be able to do your work because

38:59

I don't have the money to be your bank.

39:02

And so I'm not trying to be nasty, Joe

39:05

and Susie, but if we're gonna cut your grass, we

39:07

gotta get paid like exactly on

39:09

time, if not a little bit early. And

39:12

I just can't do it. I'd like to do

39:14

it, but I'm not a big corporation that can

39:17

float you for 60, 90 days. And

39:19

so expect that if you don't

39:22

pay on time, that I'm probably gonna

39:24

be over here two or three days later and

39:26

talking to you about it. Right.

39:29

Not because I'm a big meanie or I'm scary, but

39:31

because I'm a little guy and I can't

39:33

absorb the blow of you not paying. And

39:35

if you set the table like that, and

39:38

then they don't pay, and you show up at their door,

39:40

they're gonna be unbelievably

39:42

embarrassed and they'll never do it again. Right.

39:46

So that's setting the relationship

39:48

up on the front end. We

39:52

don't have any surprises later on. In

39:54

other words, I'm not the guy that you

39:56

don't pay. You can not

39:58

pay somebody else if you want, but. I'm the

40:00

guy who we're going to have a discussion

40:02

very quickly and very promptly. You're letting them know in a

40:04

kind of way that that's going to do. Then

40:08

on the occasion that you have someone

40:10

and you're been, you've been fairly nor

40:13

fairly lucky. Actually, you've only had two clients at

40:15

all this time, but he called you a lot

40:17

of emotional distress because you personally

40:20

felt betrayed. Yes.

40:22

But in neither case was this personal. Okay.

40:27

Property management guys are crook. Right.

40:30

And the other guys broke and dodging all

40:33

his creditors and left town. Right.

40:36

It had nothing to do with Adam and cook

40:38

for sure. You were just

40:40

one of many people that the property management tried

40:42

to screw over. The other guy was bigger

40:44

and thumped him and got you paid in the process.

40:47

Right. Yep. And the other guy,

40:49

I'll guarantee you the guy that left town not paying

40:51

you, there's a whole bunch of other people that can get paid. That's

40:54

somebody's broke. Yeah. Kind

40:56

of like when you were on heroin. Yeah.

40:59

You know, that's who that was. And so

41:03

back in the day, you're not that guy anymore, but I

41:05

mean, you know what I'm talking about. So, yes, I

41:07

know exactly what you're talking about. I mean, it's, so

41:09

the trick is if I can, if I can ascertain

41:12

that someone is broke and

41:14

can't afford my services, I don't even want to start

41:17

with it. Right. Okay.

41:19

So if you'd had a clue that the guy that moved

41:21

off was in financial trouble, you

41:24

probably just wouldn't have done it. Right.

41:27

So if you can fish around and get a couple of clues

41:29

in one of the clues will be, if they react with

41:32

anger to the type of conversation

41:35

I mentioned earlier, cause broke

41:37

people sometimes get very defensive.

41:39

When I was broke, I would get defensive. Like,

41:42

what do you mean? You think I'm not going to pay? Hey,

41:44

hey, hey, you know, and as soon as people start doing

41:47

that, that, that's like, that's like when you were dating

41:49

in high school and some girl said she wasn't crazy. It

41:51

always means she's crazy.

41:53

Right. I'm talking about a

41:56

hundred percent of the time. So same

41:58

thing here. broke. It means they're broke

42:01

every time. Okay. So, you

42:03

know, I'm just going to say, you know what, you

42:05

probably going to get somebody else touch grass. And, um,

42:08

sure. As far as the other thing

42:10

goes, I don't think you could have seen that one coming.

42:12

So the, the, the last piece of this is

42:14

if, so I think if there's

42:17

a collections problem at Ramsey, we set the relationship

42:19

up wrong. Possibly. Number

42:22

one, number two, we didn't

42:24

ascertain if the client was actually qualified,

42:27

meaning could they pay the bill where

42:29

they broke people? Okay. Uh, and

42:32

then number three, is there a pattern

42:36

in this industry that's different?

42:39

Now you don't have that, but I've got,

42:41

for instance, uh, in the radio business,

42:43

I've got ad agencies sometimes

42:45

that are representing the companies

42:48

that buy ads on the Ramsey show,

42:50

right? And it's a lot of money. And

42:53

sometimes these ad agencies want us

42:55

to bill them, and then

42:57

they bill the client and

42:59

then the client pays them and then they pay

43:03

us and they want 120 days

43:06

for all that crap to happen. And

43:08

so I've had to have the conversation for 30 years

43:11

that I've been on the radio. Uh, we

43:13

don't do that. When we bill

43:15

you, you got to pay like right now. And

43:19

if you can't pay right now, then you can't use

43:21

an ad agency and

43:23

ad agencies get pissed and don't want to work

43:25

with us. So you might have, uh, property

43:28

managers to get pissed and don't want to work with you, but you

43:30

don't work with them either. If they're going to not pay

43:33

you for six months or 120 days, cause

43:35

you're a small business guy and that'll put you out of business

43:37

cashflow problem,

43:39

right?

43:40

Right. You know, and they'll string you along

43:42

and be jerk wads like that guy was. So, you

43:44

know, so if you're dealing with a client base that

43:46

has a normal way of doing things

43:49

that doesn't fit your cash

43:51

needs, you've got to change that

43:53

relationship or not do business

43:56

with them. Right.

43:58

Cause all business, all businesses. not good business.

44:01

You could get a big old contract from somebody and

44:04

them not pay you for six or seven or eight months

44:06

and put you out of business. Yeah,

44:08

I'm learning that. Yeah, so that's

44:10

bad business. You don't want that piece of business.

44:12

Somebody else have to do that because I'm not

44:15

in the banking business. I'm in the lawn care business.

44:18

I'm not in the banking business. I'm in the radio

44:20

business. I sell ads and

44:23

so I'm not your banker and

44:25

if you want someone to facilitate your little gyration

44:27

with your client, here's an idea. All

44:30

y'all get together and prepay for 30 days.

44:33

You can you cannot have the ads run until you prepay.

44:36

Oh, I did that a couple times. I shut them up, right?

44:39

And so, but you can tell that me

44:41

and agencies have been going around and around for about 30

44:44

years now and some of them love working with us and

44:46

some of them hate us. Right. You

44:48

know, so for that and that's okay because it

44:51

the client base, the industry

44:53

standard didn't fit my

44:55

business model and cash needs because I don't borrow

44:58

money and I'm not gonna be your bank.

45:00

Okay, so lastly,

45:03

one other thing and this is more for other people out there. You

45:05

could do this but sometimes

45:08

the way to have a collections problem is not

45:10

have any collections and

45:13

that would be I changed a couple

45:15

of people inside the building here, a couple

45:17

of clients and some of the business units here from

45:20

us billing them to automatic draft

45:22

on their checking account. So

45:24

on the first of the month, we push a button and

45:27

all the money lands in my account.

45:30

No collections problem, no billing, no waiting

45:33

on them to think about writing a check. And

45:35

so sometimes I'm running

45:39

into this with small vendors

45:41

like you where they just come to the door

45:43

with their phone and like a stripe on top and

45:45

you just pay them with a card right there that

45:48

day cash on the freaking barrel

45:50

head. Now I'll be unusual

45:53

I think in the lawn care business in Tennessee but

45:55

there's people doing that out there and so you

45:58

know if you you know that but if you're a out

46:00

there and you've got a different kind of a business, maybe

46:02

you don't need to collect at all. Maybe you just need to push

46:04

a button that it automatically hits your account and

46:06

if it bounces a check on their end, they probably want

46:08

your client to start with, let's just take them off the list

46:11

because they're not paying their bill or prepay

46:14

or something like that. You know, in your

46:16

case you could say, hey I'll sell you

46:18

a package for the summer

46:21

of however many cuts, 24 cuts, whatever

46:24

it is, right? And

46:26

this is the price and if you prepay

46:29

the whole thing I'll give you a discount.

46:32

Yeah,

46:33

yeah I've moved a lot of our clients

46:35

now are on a card on file system

46:37

so every month I just charge their card on file.

46:39

That's it. And I'm trying to get

46:42

people to move to that, you

46:44

know. And here's the thing, if

46:46

the broke person that you smell is a defensive

46:49

doesn't want to do card on file because they're broke,

46:52

they're not your customer. Let them go.

46:55

Give them your competitor's business card. Let

46:58

them go do business with him and put him out of business.

47:04

And so yeah, or for instance a big

47:06

account, you go, hey man I'll do it with all

47:08

my residential customers and you guys are property

47:10

management, I've had trouble property management people, I know y'all

47:12

are fine but the way I do everything is

47:14

just card on file so you guys need to give me a card. And

47:17

they're like, what? We don't do that. I'm like, yeah I know but

47:19

that's how I do it and so you just guys, you guys

47:21

can me give me a card and they're like, huh? Like, yeah

47:23

give me a card and we'll get the whole account set up. What's

47:25

your card number anyway? And you just yeah,

47:28

and before they know it they've signed up with a card on

47:30

file on a frequent property management operation. And

47:33

they've got a card, you know they do. Oh yeah

47:36

of course. Yeah, it'd be $10,000 less nervous if you had their card

47:38

on file. Yeah,

47:43

absolutely, absolutely. So that's

47:45

an example of changing the process. Very cool,

47:48

Adam.

47:49

I like it.

47:50

You're a neat dude, man. Doing ministry,

47:53

staying in Drive for 11 years and

47:57

scratching and clawing trying to figure out the basics of

47:59

business. $250,000 in yards cut in cookville, Tennessee. That

48:03

definitely qualifies you as a stud.

48:06

Man, that's amazing. Well done,

48:08

dude. Well done. I'm honored to talk to you.

48:11

People like you that make America great, not

48:13

some corporate weenie that does layoffs to get

48:16

their profits up. You're

48:18

the man. Appreciate you. Hey,

48:21

better, a wary warrior than a quivering critic

48:23

leaders serve. Leaders are active, not passive

48:26

leaders act on principle, not appearances. This

48:28

world needs more high quality leaders. So

48:30

choose to lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your

48:32

host.