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VTW. What's

1:01

up everyone and welcome back to the

1:03

program. In this episode, we're going

1:05

to head back down to Indiana and we're

1:07

going to check in on the Delphi

1:09

murders and the trial of Richard Allen.

1:12

And as most of you are aware at

1:15

this point, this has been a very contentious

1:17

back and forth between Richard Allen's team and

1:20

between the prosecution. There's

1:22

been a lot of accusations lobbed between

1:24

both sides and a lot

1:26

of allegations of impropriety. Well,

1:28

now the attorneys for Richard Allen, they say that

1:30

they don't have the money to pay

1:33

for the experts that they need and

1:35

that the court is not giving them

1:38

the proper assistance. So they've

1:40

decided that they're going to start

1:42

an online campaign and

1:44

try and crowdsource some money to defend

1:46

Richard Allen. And according

1:49

to this report, they've already raised

1:51

about 10 G's. Now look,

1:53

I get it. People out there aren't very

1:55

confident in the prosecution. And of course that leads

1:57

people to wonder if Richard Allen is a real

2:00

Yeah whenever I guy and I get

2:02

it. But. For me until somebody

2:04

can explain how the bullet from is gone

2:06

that has never left his possession were saw

2:08

that the crime scene. I'm gonna have some.

2:11

Questions Now Does that mean that Richard Allen

2:13

guilty for sure and he should get a

2:15

trial? Of course not. And of people out

2:17

there wanna pony up some dough to help

2:19

them do that, Than hey, that is their

2:21

business. But in my opinion, it's a pretty

2:24

big gamble. You're

2:26

going to bet on. Richard Allen being innocent

2:28

here. Are big enough bet that

2:30

you're going to financially support on. What?

2:32

If he's guilty, What? Does

2:34

he did kill Abby a movie and hour

2:36

later on we find that all out and

2:39

you're over here. Dolan out a bunch of

2:41

money to Richard Allen and furthermore, how long's

2:43

are gonna be before the Innocence Project shows

2:45

up. Today's.

2:48

Article is from wthr.com and

2:50

a headline Attorneys For. Delphi

2:52

Murder Defendant say they must rely

2:54

on online donations to pay for

2:57

Richard Allen Defense experts. Were. Trying

2:59

to crowds want to make it a

3:01

firefight, Attorney David Hennessy told Thirty News

3:03

on Tuesday. This. Article was

3:06

authored by Bob. So. Golf.

3:09

The. Man accused of killing to Delphi

3:11

teenagers in two thousand and seventeen is

3:13

now getting public donations to help repair

3:15

his defense. Were. Trying

3:17

to crowds on to make it

3:19

a firefight, Attorney David Hennessy told

3:21

Thirty News Tuesday afternoon. Like.

3:24

People don't have anything better to do with their money. Gases.

3:29

Expensive Foods Expensive. Can't.

3:31

Really pay for anything to have a good time

3:33

anymore. But. Sure, let me go ahead

3:35

send Richard Allen a couple of Bugs. The.

3:39

Long time Indianapolis attorney has been

3:41

helping Delphi defendant Richard Allen and

3:43

providing legal counsel for Allen's The

3:45

Public Defenders. Allen has charged. With

3:48

the murders of Abby Williams and Libby

3:50

German near the Delphi Manon High Bridge

3:52

at his trial is scheduled to begin

3:54

in mid May. Hennessy. Said

3:56

he. is increasingly concerned that allen will

3:59

not receive us trial prompting him

4:01

to launch an online fundraising campaign

4:03

Monday afternoon to fight for his freedom

4:05

and for justice for both victims of

4:07

this heinous crime. In the

4:10

first 24 hours the fundraising campaign raised more than

4:12

$10,000 of the $25,000 goal. These

4:17

are the same people that are sending Brian

4:19

Kohlberger gifts for Valentine's Day

4:21

I'm guessing. I mean wow.

4:25

Like that's a pretty big leap. To

4:27

just automatically start throwing dough towards

4:29

Richard Allen? Oh yeah, let

4:31

me go ahead and help this dude out and throw him a couple of bucks. I

4:35

wonder how many of those people that have donated

4:38

to Richard Allen have looked to donate to the

4:40

victims families. All

4:42

the money will go to experts, it won't go to

4:45

the attorneys, and it won't go to Rick Allen he

4:47

said. The crowdfunding effort

4:49

comes after Allen's attorneys file court

4:51

documents claiming that special judge Francis

4:53

Gull has been denying their funding

4:55

requests. Look, there's a lot of

4:58

gamesmanship going on here and

5:01

there's probably some truth to what they're

5:03

saying but I don't believe that

5:05

it's egregious and I don't believe

5:07

that Judge Gull is just striking down you

5:10

know motions or requests. There has to be

5:12

a reason for it. And

5:14

in this instance if they're asking for

5:17

excessive expert opinion, well

5:19

should the taxpayer in Indiana be on the hook

5:21

for that? Certainly up for debate.

5:24

Because Allen's defense attorneys are public defenders

5:26

paid for by Carroll County taxpayers, court

5:29

rules require all defense expenses such

5:31

as attorney fees, expert witness fees,

5:34

investigation costs and travel costs to

5:36

first be approved by Gull before they are paid

5:38

by the county. So this

5:40

is why you don't want to get arrested if you

5:43

don't have any money for a real lawyer. This

5:46

is where you end up. You're at the

5:48

mercy of the court. Even

5:50

when you have a public defender, right? If you're indigent and

5:52

you don't have the money for experts, you're going

5:54

to be bent over a barrel. And

5:58

I'm not saying I agree with that but that's how it goes. Those.

6:01

An. Accord and the County. They don't

6:03

have unlimited money to just throw a

6:05

people. So. Unless you

6:07

have a private attorney, chances of you

6:10

getting off are usually slim to none,

6:12

and these expertise caused a lot of

6:14

money. When. My love one was

6:16

going through their issues with the federal government. Forget

6:19

it. Spend. Hundreds of thousands of

6:21

dollars on experts. The. Whole,

6:23

I understand completely when you're talking

6:25

about being up. Against it as

6:28

far as evidence as far as

6:30

financials because remember, you're dealing with

6:32

the government. And

6:34

my loved ones case was the Federal

6:36

government so unlimited ones. Hear a

6:38

little bit different. you're in a smaller place,

6:40

blah blah but still. You're. Up

6:42

against it. And. If you don't have

6:44

any money for it, very difficult to defend

6:47

yourself in the United States when you're bored.

6:49

That said, I would think that there

6:51

are better causes out there. People are

6:53

really up against it that deserve money before

6:55

Richard Allen, but hey, who am I

6:57

to tell anybody? What? To do with

6:59

their checkbooks. According

7:01

to Derek Mason, Executive Director of

7:03

the Indiana Public Defenders Commission, Carroll

7:06

County has a comprehensive. Plan that

7:08

details as event expenses that are

7:10

eligible for payment. The. Plan

7:13

states. And attorney appointed to

7:15

provide representation may request ex

7:17

parte de authorization. From.

7:19

The judge hearing the case

7:21

for expenditures for Investigative services.

7:24

Expert witnesses or other

7:26

services necessary to provide

7:28

adequate legal representation. The.

7:30

Rules also say the. Judges required to

7:33

approve only those expenses that

7:35

are determined to be necessary

7:37

and reasonable. So. This is

7:39

where the robbers right was necessary

7:41

and was reasonable. As a

7:43

defendant, I'm guessing you would think that a

7:45

lot of things are necessary. Or reasonable that

7:48

the court might disagree with. So.

7:50

The court isn't gonna pick up that bill. Now.

7:53

On the flipside, If you ever pay

7:55

legal representation, things are different. If.

7:57

you have the money to pay for the experts you can pay

8:00

as many experts as you want. The court's not

8:02

going to step in, but when

8:04

you're being taken care of and

8:06

your bills are being paid by the taxpayers, the

8:09

court's going to have a few things to say. According

8:13

to the defense team, Gull has approved much

8:15

less than they've requested. For

8:17

example, the defense team claims that the judge

8:19

approved $6,262 for them to consult with

8:24

firearms expert and a digital

8:26

forensic expert about Delphi crime

8:28

scene evidence, but they say

8:30

the judge denied additional consultations

8:32

with those experts as unsupported

8:34

expenses. So, the judge

8:37

gave him the first one, but after

8:39

that, according to Judge Gull anyway, the

8:42

state wasn't on the hook to pay for

8:44

any more visits to those experts. This

8:47

court's denial of funding ensures an

8:49

unfair, inequitable trial, defense attorney Brad

8:51

Rosie and Andrew Baldwin wrote in

8:53

their motion for parity in resources

8:55

to reconsider the denial of anticipated

8:58

defense costs or to exclude evidence

9:00

filed on March 17th. So

9:03

they're setting it up right here, in my opinion,

9:05

for the appeal. What they

9:07

want to do is have all of this on

9:10

record, so later on when they appeal, they have

9:12

it to point to, right? Oh look, he didn't

9:14

get a fair shake, the whole entire process was

9:16

stacked against them, yada, yada, yada.

9:19

We saw the same thing with Lori Valos' team. And

9:22

how does that work out for them? The

9:24

Indiana Public Defender's Council says judges

9:26

are permitted to deny public defenders

9:29

requests to fund expert witnesses, but

9:31

those denials can create significant problems

9:34

if they are not justified, 1000%. The

9:38

judge can't, you know, slap these down

9:40

without good reasoning. You can't

9:42

just deny these requests, right? That's

9:44

going to come back to haunt you, so if

9:46

Judge Gull doesn't have a good reason for

9:48

denying this stuff, then later on down the

9:51

road, Richard Allen certainly will have a basis

9:53

for an appeal. Hello, it is Ryan,

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the defense counsel don't have the tools

11:28

that they need, they effectively cannot defend

11:30

Mr. Allen Fairley without having those resources

11:33

available. Said IPDC Assistant

11:35

Executive Director Michael Moore. For

11:37

a judge to unilaterally decide those services

11:40

are not needed, you don't need those

11:42

funds. It's essentially creating a situation where

11:44

there might be an unfair trial and

11:46

a conviction that's questionable. The

11:49

whole entire situation down here in Delphi

11:51

is phoo-bar. And

11:53

this gigantic circus can end soon enough.

11:57

Hopefully it ends with a conviction, but at

11:59

this point... with all of the missteps

12:01

and all of the gaps here? I have

12:04

some questions. Now, I think that they have

12:06

the right guy, but are they going to

12:08

be able to slam that door shut? That's really

12:10

what the issue is, at least from my

12:12

perspective. Allen's attorneys

12:14

have indicated the judge wants them to

12:16

pay for expert witness expenses up front

12:18

and that she will then review their

12:21

reimbursement request to determine if they

12:23

will be granted. Brad Rosie

12:25

and Andy Baldwin have paid out of

12:27

their own pockets, but it's getting too

12:29

much, Hennessey told 13 News. He

12:32

said that is why they are now

12:34

seeking private donations through a public crowdsourcing

12:36

campaign. It's not a leveling,

12:38

the playing field issue, it's a due

12:40

process issue, said Kay Beeler, an attorney

12:42

who has served as both a prosecutor

12:44

and a public defender in Marion County.

12:47

You can't prepare a murder trial with one hand

12:49

tied behind your back, and I hate to ever

12:51

side with this Richard Allen dude, but they're

12:54

not wrong here. We

12:56

need to make sure that there is no chance

12:58

that this dude gets off on appeal. Same

13:00

thing I say with Kohlberger, it holds true down

13:03

here. Everything has to be done

13:05

on the up and up, and if the

13:07

prosecution is misstepping, or if they're missing things,

13:09

or they're fudging evidence, or something like that,

13:12

they're going to pay for it. But really, you

13:14

know who's going to end up paying for it?

13:16

The family members of Libby and Abby. So

13:18

the prosecution better get their shit in

13:20

order. Beeler

13:22

said in more than 30 years of

13:24

legal practice, she has never been denied

13:26

funding for an expert she requested to

13:28

help defend the client. So that's not

13:31

looking good for Judge Gull. And

13:33

all we can go on is the

13:35

information that we have here, right? And

13:37

that information is coming from somebody

13:39

with experience dealing with this very

13:42

thing. So Judge Gull is

13:44

going to have to explain why she's denying

13:46

these requests. Marion

13:49

County has its own Public Defender's Office

13:52

with its own Public Defender budget, and

13:54

that office makes its own decisions about

13:56

what expenses to fund. In

13:58

most other Indiana counties, including Carroll

14:00

County, public defender expenses are handled

14:03

much differently. Their request for

14:05

funding to prepare for a defendant's trial

14:07

must be reviewed and approved by the

14:10

judge overseeing the case. Now

14:12

I don't know if I agree with that.

14:14

I think maybe there should be some kind

14:16

of panel that these requests go to so

14:18

that we can avoid any chance of impropriety

14:20

or a judge, you know, having a bone

14:22

to pick with the defense or something like that. So

14:25

maybe some kind of panel or

14:27

something like that should be created where

14:29

people make these decisions who don't have

14:32

any emotional tie to what's going on.

14:36

Needing to seek funding from online

14:38

fundraising really shows how messed up

14:40

the system is in Indiana, Moore

14:42

said. The biggest problem is in

14:44

Indiana, there is no separation between

14:46

the judiciary and public defenders. If

14:48

the defendant has to go to the person

14:50

who is going to be the neutral arbiter

14:52

in your case to say I need money

14:55

to go hire experts so I can properly

14:57

defend myself and that person who is going

14:59

to decide your fate later on is also

15:01

going to decide if the request you're making

15:03

is reasonable or not, the judge

15:05

serving in a different role than what the

15:08

judge probably should be doing. It's just really

15:10

an unfair system and I agree with that,

15:12

honestly, and I think a panel should

15:14

be used here. It seems pretty simple, right?

15:17

But when we're talking about bureaucracy, it's never

15:19

simple. If

15:21

public defenders believe they are being denied funding

15:23

improperly, they can file an appeal to the

15:26

Indiana Court of Appeals to review the

15:28

denial. But that kind of appeal, that

15:30

takes time. That would cause

15:32

an 8-12 month delay and Rick Allen can't

15:34

handle that, so we're just trying to get

15:36

some experts as quickly as we can. Hennessy

15:39

told 13 News. At

15:41

6pm Tuesday, 188 anonymous donors had donated nearly $11,000

15:44

to hire those experts. Yo,

15:49

I'm not shocked that people are donating anonymously

15:52

either. We're talking about the internet here, where

15:54

people are just absolutely brutal. So

15:57

look, I wouldn't be donating any money to

15:59

Richard Allen. But I understand people

16:01

who don't trust the system and

16:03

want to do something like this I don't

16:06

agree with it But I guess I could

16:08

understand it especially considering how fubar the system

16:10

is and for me It's not because

16:12

I have any sort of empathy for Richard Allen

16:15

Not any more empathy than I would have

16:17

for anybody who has these sorts of charges

16:19

hanging over their head and the evidence that

16:21

we've seen Pointing to them as the person

16:23

responsible But the system itself

16:25

is screwed up And if you

16:27

don't have any money and you get arrested in

16:29

America forget it you're in big trouble So

16:32

that certainly needs to be addressed and

16:34

when people are talking about you know They're dumbass

16:36

nonsense with the fun the police what they

16:38

really should be talking about is Reformation

16:40

when it comes to things like this, but

16:43

that doesn't move the needle politically, right? That's

16:46

not the red meat that the base requires and

16:48

craves so they don't talk about it But

16:50

when you have something like this pop up it

16:52

shines a light on the deficiencies,

16:54

right? But either way Richard

16:57

Allen in my opinion is

16:59

the right guy and it doesn't

17:01

matter how many experts they bring in I

17:03

think when all is said none we're gonna

17:05

have a conviction But I think it all

17:08

rides on the prosecution and if they've been

17:10

up front Throughout this whole thing and if

17:12

not and Richard Allen ends up walking on

17:14

some kind of you know Misconduct

17:17

by the prosecution or something like that there

17:19

is going to be held to pay Now

17:21

I don't think we're anywhere near that point

17:24

yet, but certainly a possibility So

17:26

this is one of those cases where I am

17:28

not confident at all that will see the conviction

17:30

at the end of the day Not because I

17:32

think Richard Allen's the wrong guy But

17:34

because I just don't trust the system down

17:37

here in Indiana or the prosecutors

17:39

So we'll keep following along and I

17:41

hope I'm wrong But in my opinion

17:43

the circus down here in Delphi is

17:45

only going to continue to grow All

17:49

of the information that goes with this episode

17:51

can be found in the description box