0:00

Um , this is another episode of the Express Lane podcast

0:02

with .

0:03

Kevin Stan . What's going on ? Did we start the

0:05

?

0:06

Okay , cool , yeah , no I just

0:09

didn't even look .

0:09

I just know we started . So , kevin Stan

0:11

, what's going on ? Everybody , we got Chris

0:13

with us today again . Finally .

0:16

Well finally , that's quite a quite

0:18

a couple .

0:19

Yeah , man , I enjoyed time on and you're

0:21

one of the names of that gets thrown around

0:23

when we're desperate for a guest . I'm like I could ask

0:25

Chris . Well , also when I'm

0:27

like just cuz we both like to talk to

0:29

you and You're a good conversationalist

0:32

, so we like having you here . So Mostly

0:35

I like just listening to the fact that you

0:37

hit us up even was like fucking perfect

0:39

. We don't have to think about finding anybody like

0:41

we'll ride right into this .

0:43

Cool . No , hey , I'm happy to help . As

0:46

you can hear , I am , I'm gonna be , I'm gonna be playing

0:48

injured a little bit . My , my voice has been

0:50

totally gone since , like

0:52

, well , I should say my voice was totally gone on

0:54

Wednesday , wednesday night into Thursday

0:56

this is actually the best it sounded in like three

0:59

days .

0:59

Is that yelling at the ?

1:00

Eagles game . Honestly , I

1:02

don't know what it was , cuz I had a

1:05

, the first Eagles game of

1:07

yeah , the first Eagles game of the season that

1:09

Sunday . The day the Saturday

1:11

before , I had like a raging fever , akes

1:14

just like took Tylenol , slept all day

1:16

and then by Sunday it was like gone . The new

1:18

variant , yeah , yeah , who knows

1:20

what . Well , I would say it's the . It's

1:23

the quote-unquote new variant of whatever

1:25

. You know , kids at work are just

1:27

like coughing into the air . That probably popped

1:29

up . But like Monday and Tuesday felt

1:31

fine , sounded fine , no symptoms of

1:33

anything whatsoever , and then , like Wednesday

1:36

night , after my schedule , I just like couldn't talk

1:38

. And then all day Thursday I like didn't

1:40

go into work , just cuz it's tough to do

1:42

your job when you can't say anything . Yeah , you shut

1:44

up for a couple of days , yeah

1:46

, and I was hoping that that would work , but as

1:48

you can hear , it kind of didn't and that's your second injury

1:50

, you saying you're something about your ankle . Oh yeah , yeah

1:52

, my , my foot's all banged up , which

1:54

also I have no explanation

1:57

as to what happened . Usually , when there's like

1:59

some sort of injury , it's like you can pinpoint

2:01

it to oh yeah , this on this play

2:03

this happened . Or oh , I was , like you know

2:05

, carrying this box up the steps or down

2:07

the steps because you know , in your 40s , that's all it takes now

2:09

. You just carry something and then something gets

2:12

hurt for like six weeks .

2:13

But my last couple of injuries have been I

2:15

slept , funny right .

2:17

Yes , I woke up and it was like this . So

2:19

, yeah , so I have like Something

2:21

in my pinky toe . I don't know what it is

2:23

, but it's like there's joy buzzer

2:26

, electrical shocks , currents , like

2:28

nerve stuff that like shoots through

2:30

my pinky toe and also like

2:32

my bottom part of my foot

2:34

Whenever I take any steps said that

2:36

go I .

2:38

I think , that's usually like , I think , in your big

2:40

toe , and that's just where it gets like all swollen

2:42

and shit .

2:43

Oh yeah , that's so . That's the other weird part . If it was

2:45

a broken bone or like a torn

2:47

muscle or something . Typically when I've had broken

2:49

bones or torn muscles there's like swelling or

2:52

bruising .

2:52

It looks the same as my other foot , so as

2:55

long as it's not hot to the touch , that's Infection

2:58

correct and it is not hot to the touch .

3:00

It like literally looks the same , but it is excruciating

3:02

pain like we went to the no , let's pop

3:05

some feet out here , and there might be some people saying

3:07

that's hot .

3:10

Kristen and I went to the Flyers

3:12

rookie game last night in Allentown

3:16

and just the walk from the stadium

3:18

to the parking garage was like it

3:20

was like agony .

3:21

So yeah .

3:22

So it's crazy so not playing hockey right now

3:24

, but I did get to watch the team today and it was . It was pretty

3:26

fun . They . They look pretty good .

3:28

So what do you think of the , the new regime ? It's

3:31

at the top of the Flyers . I .

3:33

I mean so far , I think

3:35

I Think any

3:38

, I think with anything in life you have to sort

3:40

of go into it Like

3:43

the college professor , like you got an a until

3:45

you start fucking up and not

3:47

doing your homework , not handing in your

3:49

projects , and then your grade like drops and drops

3:52

and drops and drops and drops . I tend

3:54

to Try to do that

3:56

with everything , including this new regime

3:58

of the Flyers , and so far They've like kept their grade

4:00

, like I've liked a lot of the things that they've done . I

4:02

like just some of the small details as

4:05

well , as I don't know , just

4:08

the , the transparency and

4:10

the communication with the

4:12

fan base , which is there . That's your lifeblood

4:14

, that's where your money is coming from .

4:15

So yeah , I'd

4:17

say I think . I think they're doing it right . They're

4:20

starting things slow the right way , something

4:23

that needed to be done 22

4:26

years ago , after the lockout season

4:28

, when they changed all the free agency rules ?

4:30

Yeah , because ever since the salary cap

4:32

, they really haven't been able to put a team together

4:35

. And then there's other small details , like the fact

4:37

that how many homegrown defensemen

4:39

have excelled in this organization ever

4:41

like ? Really none , like

4:43

all of our best defensemen have been from other teams

4:46

, like chemo teaming in and Chris

4:48

Prong , or , more recently , or even going back as

4:50

far as , like Mark , how like we

4:53

don't grow them . You know , I'm sorry

4:55

, stan , I'm looking more at Kev because I know you could give a shit Shores

4:58

.

5:00

Nothing to add to this .

5:02

It's gonna be really good this year , but I think our defense

5:04

could be better Again

5:06

, like that's wrong on two counts right homegrown

5:09

thing . We need more of that and Transitions

5:12

and stuff like that . He's , but he's blending

5:14

at least you know he's trying .

5:15

Yeah , that's , that wasn't bring back Eric Lindross

5:17

.

5:18

Jesus Christ , 88 dude . We're

5:21

right over so close to the verge

5:23

of everything he can add to this conversation right

5:25

now .

5:26

That's amazing , that's great . But , yes , it

5:28

is . It is great to be back in

5:30

the in the studio with you , gentlemen . I have

5:33

been listening as much

5:35

as I can I have . I have to admit I

5:37

have not been as religiously listening to

5:39

the podcast as I did in the first year and

5:41

a half to To two-ish years

5:44

, but I don't expect anybody to .

5:46

I'm I'm not listening to it , so

5:48

you're right there with me .

5:49

I mean I do , but it's . But I think the I

5:51

Tell

5:54

me if you guys agree . But I think that podcasts

5:57

now are sort of in some ways , like the new

5:59

being in a band , right , like

6:01

it's like a lot of people are in bands

6:03

and then people are like , oh , that seems fun

6:05

, like it's an awesome thing and like I could do that , I could

6:07

play some music . I'll be in a band , and then they start

6:09

a band and the next thing , you know , there's a lot of friends of yours

6:12

who are like , yeah , like come see my band , come see my

6:14

band , come see my band . And now

6:16

it's like I think there's , I

6:18

think people have seen over the last couple years

6:20

the , the

6:22

sway towards listening to podcasts

6:24

and people are like , hey , people like podcasts

6:27

, they want to listen to them . So now a lot of people

6:29

have podcasts and so you refresh

6:31

your feet of all the podcasts that you're listening

6:33

to and there's new Episodes of like everything

6:35

, and there's only so many hours in the day , so

6:37

you guys sometimes get priority .

6:39

But other times , absolutely , you know

6:41

, you just start , you get into a click like you

6:43

start listening to , for instance , like Matt and Shane's

6:45

, and then they bring on guys and their little

6:48

brothers do them , and then you got this whole

6:50

. You've got ten podcasts Of all these people in

6:52

the similar space , so you can only

6:54

listen to so many . Yeah , yeah and

6:56

there's a popular good people .

6:58

Yeah , and it's only

7:00

like , but the opposite of being in a

7:02

band , as you're saying , where You're

7:04

in a band and then Stan wants to start

7:07

a band and you're like , well , you can't play

7:09

with Kevin because Kevin's in my band . So

7:12

your fuck you , stan

7:14

. But podcasting has been like I

7:16

don't know like these dudes are hilarious

7:18

or they're awesome . They have great insight on whatever

7:20

they're gonna be on ours . Listen

7:22

to us and listen to them like

7:24

it's back and forth where that's

7:27

. It seems to not be as

7:29

ruthless as Banned

7:31

membership goes .

7:33

Yeah , and I would agree with that . I would say , in like a rock

7:35

context you definitely see that a lot , but I do

7:37

think in jazz everybody's always playing with

7:39

everybody . So it's it's almost more like

7:41

what you're describing with the podcast of like , oh

7:43

, this guy's hilarious , he'll have great chemistry

7:46

on the pod , on this other guys podcast , you put

7:48

those two together and you're like , wow , that's podcast

7:50

magic . Same thing with jazz , where it's like

7:52

this particular drummer , it's like , oh , the way

7:54

that they play , like they they should record

7:56

with this saxophone player , and then they put like

7:59

something together , they put a project together .

8:00

So jazz , jazz musicians , just

8:02

don't have egos . They didn't get your regular

8:05

drummer doesn't get , but hurt that you want to . You

8:07

know , play something with a new drummer .

8:09

I would say that jazz musicians definitely

8:11

have egos , but it's a different

8:13

type of ego , I think . Like if you

8:15

, if you have a trumpet player

8:17

who's playing on a particular gig or in

8:19

a project with somebody and then , like they , I

8:21

Don't know , for whatever

8:23

reason , there's a scheduling conflict or something like

8:25

that and you have to hire somebody else

8:27

for a particular gig , that original trumpet

8:30

players not gonna get all that upset , they know . It's sort of the nature

8:32

of the beast . However , I think when jazz egos

8:35

come into play , I think it's just cuz some people

8:37

are . They have the ego

8:39

because they're playing jazz .

8:41

You know they all just want to show their big

8:43

solo .

8:44

Kind of yeah , or just the fact that it's like

8:46

I think some people erroneously

8:49

look at jazz as like , oh

8:51

, this is a , this is this high art of

8:53

music , and like , because I know how

8:56

to do X , y and Z musically well

8:58

, I'm on this other level from other musicians

9:00

. But then you can also you

9:03

can argue with those people that like you could also go

9:05

out and see like a singer , songwriter who

9:07

just has like an amazing voice and

9:10

they're banging out the same three chords that everybody

9:12

in history has banged out . However , their

9:14

performance is just like so captivating that

9:17

you're just like it's such an impactful

9:19

thing and it isn't even anywhere musically

9:22

on that same level as jazz . But

9:24

some people , again , they get their ego from

9:26

just playing on that particular level

9:29

.

9:29

What position would you say is the the

9:32

most egoist ?

9:34

So there is a generality of . Egotistical

9:37

yes , yeah , yeah .

9:38

There's generality of all the jazz people you've ever

9:40

played with , and there's one position that sticks out

9:42

where it's always that guy .

9:44

Is the fucking problem . You can name names too

9:46

, yeah that's .

9:47

That's exactly what I was . First thing , I was like man , I'm gonna get

9:49

in trouble with this answer . But If

9:51

you talk to most musicians , a lot of

9:53

musicians will say trumpet players . However

9:56

, in my own experience , the trumpet players

9:58

that I've worked with over the years have been like Amazing

10:01

dudes , low maintenance , which

10:03

, again , I feel like most musicians hearing me say this , they'd be

10:05

like you're crazy , like this is not true

10:08

. This is not the experience I've had with them , but

10:10

you know three , four , five different trumpet players

10:12

that we've worked with over the years . Every single one of

10:14

them is like Super patient , great

10:17

dudes . They're available for rehearsals

10:19

, they play really well , whether they're playing like

10:21

inside the changes or outside the changes

10:24

. But To me , honestly

10:26

, the most difficult personality types that I've

10:28

worked with are saxophone players Hands down

10:30

, and I won't name any specific names , but

10:32

I've worked with a lot over the years and I would just say

10:34

that , like you know , the majority

10:37

of them- sexiest like instrument . I

10:40

think it's just there like I'm

10:43

attracted to it .

10:44

Did the saxophone ego come

10:47

before or after the Bill Clinton ?

10:50

That's exactly what I was thinking of . It's

10:52

what won him the presidency ?

10:54

Well , I don't know , I wasn't playing music back then . I was

10:56

like playing Super Nintendo , I think during

10:58

the Clinton administration , but no

11:00

, but I like almost every saxophone

11:02

player I've worked with has ranged from being

11:04

like you , like

11:06

overly grumpy

11:09

and just difficult personality

11:11

wise , to just like

11:13

hang around with and play music with , to

11:15

being like ultra high maintenance

11:17

and like amazingly inflexible

11:19

, which for me , in being flexible

11:22

, is like one of the number one traits I'm looking for in a

11:24

musician . It's like I don't know

11:26

. I think you have to be adaptable and you have to be able to

11:28

, like you know , be

11:30

flexible and be changeable and be OK with

11:33

, like the fluidity

11:35

of music . Yeah , exactly .

11:36

I think it'd probably be like the flute player prancing

11:39

around and shit , doing all kinds of goofy stuff

11:41

.

11:41

Well , just so you're not have you been to

11:43

a concert like I'll never go to a jazz

11:46

concert the players fucking stance .

11:48

Yeah yeah , they have like

11:50

those hoof feet , to like they just little

11:52

horns that cranks around and play the pan flute yeah

11:54

that's a lute or no , that's more of a

11:57

string instrument , isn't it the whole ?

11:58

yeah , lute is like . It's like an old school , like

12:00

medieval kind of .

12:02

Thing .

12:02

But yeah , the pan flute is like what . Stan's talking

12:04

about where it's like it kind of like it's it creates

12:07

like it's like a little bit larger and you just sort of blow

12:09

across it like you're a castaway on a on

12:11

a raft or something . That's what I picture Jazz

12:13

concerts like blowing out the Gilligan's

12:15

Island theme , but you're a fantasy monster playing

12:18

a made up instrument prancing around

12:20

like dude .

12:21

Stop trying to play music here .

12:23

This says more about you than the music

12:25

.

12:25

Absolutely Well . I guess you're not like too

12:28

far from the mark , though , because I

12:30

mean the woodwind players . Typically they play

12:32

all woodwind instruments , so they're they're

12:35

versatile in that regard . Where they're Swiss Army knives

12:37

, where they'll play like alto , sax

12:39

, tenor sax , flute , clarinet

12:41

, they'll play all those things . So you know , with flute

12:43

, flute players . You're sort of in that in

12:45

that same ballpark .

12:47

I'm just thinking about that dude that plays in the

12:49

subway , that dances , dances

12:52

around playing the saxophone

12:55

, maybe , yeah .

12:56

Oh , I've seen some clips . I mean , please , I think he's playing

12:58

a barry , so it's like the baritone sax is like the

13:00

big , big one that sort of sounds

13:02

like my voice right now .

13:05

Kind of I mean he's just really good , he's just putting on a great

13:07

show as much as he's playing good music

13:09

, yeah , and he's got .

13:10

You know , there's like energy in his playing which like

13:12

I feel like so many times . That's what , when

13:15

people are going to see music , they don't care

13:17

if you're like , oh man , the way , the

13:20

way . Like the saxophone player included that like

13:22

high A and his solo over

13:24

an E flat major seven chord and that made like

13:26

an E flat major seven , sharp , 11 . Like whoa

13:28

, that was so cool . Like no one cares . What

13:30

people care about is how they feel when they're , when

13:33

they're listening to music or

13:35

the like . When I say

13:37

, feel like the energy of the music or the emotion of

13:39

the music , like some people , it's like they

13:41

listen to that emotional content

13:43

of the music and what it's communicating to the listener

13:46

and they're like , oh , that makes me like , feel these emotions

13:48

. And then other people it's just the energy

13:50

.

13:50

It's like , oh yeah this makes me want to get up and dance . Can you make

13:53

it a show , like ? Can you show

13:56

the people like not just through the music

13:58

, because you know all that shit you just said about the

14:00

flats and the ease and the numbers and stuff

14:02

like that's fine . I

14:04

don't know any of that and I think most people

14:06

probably don't know how

14:08

that dude's like showing you how

14:11

good he's playing . I think it's probably part of it .

14:14

And to your point about the

14:16

various like notes

14:18

or intervals that are used like but , yeah , like , nobody's

14:20

listening for that . However

14:23

, the mood that's communicated when you put

14:25

that note into that chord , that is

14:27

what's communicating to the listener Right . So

14:29

it's like , if you want to , like , throwing

14:31

that note into your solo is not like

14:33

, oh , I'm going to be slick , I'll throw that note in . It's more

14:35

like OK , this is the emotion that I want to evoke

14:38

right now . I want it to sound like , for

14:40

instance , that interval that I mentioned

14:42

a second ago . In my opinion , that has

14:44

a very like bittersweet or nostalgic

14:47

sound in music . So when you put that interval

14:49

into that specific type of chord , it

14:51

has this like almost

14:53

like you're remembering a fond

14:56

memory but you're sad because it's not here anymore , you

14:58

know like that nostalgic sort of bittersweet

15:01

sort of feel . So if you want to communicate

15:03

that , it's like , yeah , knowing the knowledge of this interval

15:06

against this chord , like you put it in

15:08

there , you're going to communicate that emotion . Your

15:10

goal as a musician shouldn't be like , oh , I'm

15:12

going to throw that in there because it's slick . Your

15:14

goal should be well , this is the mood that I want to evoke

15:17

in the solo . So , thanks to

15:19

my knowledge that I have , I can throw that in

15:21

there Like you kind of .

15:22

That's why we need nerds in all things .

15:24

Yeah , it's true .

15:24

I agree . How often do you find , say

15:27

, a saxophone player that Plays

15:31

with a lot of pizzazz

15:33

, like someone , that's a performer that you would be like , damn

15:35

, that guy is really hitting that saxophone hard

15:38

, like dancing in the subway as he's playing

15:40

, but just is a mediocre musician . Does

15:42

that happen like a bunch where this guy's like I'm rocking

15:44

out and everybody that knows music is like

15:46

, yeah , that sucks .

15:48

All the time , the time like and

15:50

I'll even give a name because he's like a famous

15:53

dude , not because he's like one of the homies that I've

15:55

played with , because , like I'm not , I won't throw out

15:57

those kind of names but we played

15:59

a show one time years

16:01

ago downstairs at World Cafe Live

16:03

. So they have the upstairs where it's like the , you

16:05

know , the little stage , and then downstairs is like

16:07

where the big bands come through and

16:09

we were part of like an event where they had a bunch of like

16:11

touring bands and local bands and stuff . It was like

16:14

an all day like sort of thing , and

16:16

there was a musician that played before us called

16:19

Trombone Shorty , and I don't know if this is a name

16:21

that's come up for you guys .

16:22

I feel like I've heard that name before .

16:24

Yeah , he's like you know and like he

16:27

was on right before us , and

16:29

so we're we're like off

16:31

to the side of the stage and you know we have all

16:33

of our stuff , because it was one of those things where you're

16:35

like gear sharing so you don't have to set up all your stuff . You

16:38

just basically walk out with your instrument , you plug

16:40

into the house amp or the drummer just goes out

16:42

, attaches the cymbals and the snare

16:44

, but the house kit is there for them

16:46

to use . So we're watching

16:48

this dude and the music is so just like

16:50

Like vanilla

16:53

.

16:53

Yes exactly .

16:55

It was very mid as as , as

16:57

the children say these days , as the youths

17:00

say , but it was just like you

17:02

know . But as he's playing

17:05

the Trombone and you know the drummer

17:07

is like playing this like backbeat and he's

17:09

just like hopping straight up and down , which

17:11

, again , again , for many reasons

17:13

, I won't imitate right now . But him and everybody

17:15

else on the stage in the band , they're all just like Pogo

17:18

, sticking like , jumping straight up and down and everything . And

17:20

like this sea of people , like hundreds

17:22

of people in front of the stage , they like all are

17:24

like , they like loved it

17:26

and we're there and we're just like man , this is like

17:28

. This is just so pandering and lame

17:31

. And like this dude's just like hopping up and down , and

17:34

then they finish their set

17:36

and they're breaking down all their stuff and we go . I get like

17:38

my pedal board , my guitar , and like Pete gets his bass

17:40

and like and then we walk out to start

17:42

like setting up our stuff and

17:45

like 95% of the people that were

17:47

there are gone now , like that

17:50

, like every . But like there were like three or four

17:52

bands even like after us and

17:54

everybody bought tickets for this show .

17:56

Just for that .

17:56

And they all came to see that dude jump around

17:59

on stage and play like mediocre ass music

18:01

and then , once he

18:03

was done , they didn't even stay and get their

18:05

money's worth . Right , like , if I'm paying $25

18:08

for a ticket to see this band and I know there's like three

18:10

or four other bands , chances are I'm

18:12

probably going to like jump online and

18:14

listen to the other bands just to see what they're like , and then if there's

18:16

anything that's like , oh , these sort of interesting like

18:18

I'll stay .

18:19

I'll watch the other bands made at night of it . You

18:21

where you going Exactly , the Pogo stick guy

18:24

Exactly .

18:24

Exactly , you pay $25 to get in

18:26

. At least I see it as well . Now

18:29

I'm not going to another bar , I'm here

18:31

. So like anything that I'm going to go do now

18:33

because of that guy's done , I

18:35

might as well do it here . And there's still

18:38

live music .

18:38

Right Now again , like if there's certain circumstances

18:41

, like we'll say a foot injury , and you're like , yeah

18:43

, it fucking hurts for me to stand for like hours

18:45

, but you really want to see this band , Okay

18:47

, go ahead , Leave . But also don't be

18:50

like you know so my son

18:52

took the trumpet solo . And now that he's

18:54

done I'm going to leave the elementary school . It's like no

18:56

stay for all the kids .

18:57

Dude , like dislike him and his fans yeah

19:00

.

19:02

Well , like I said , it's like because you guys ask

19:04

that's .

19:05

That's an example that comes to mind .

19:06

It's like we all sort of like laugh about that , where it's just

19:08

like , and I think today , like he

19:11

probably still has a really good following and I think people probably

19:13

really like his music and but

19:15

at the same token and I was I was

19:17

just having this conversation somewhat recently

19:20

because we went to see the Arctic

19:22

Monkeys at the man recently and

19:24

I don't really know the band Like I've worked

19:27

on a couple tunes with some students , so

19:29

out of all the songs they played , I think I recognize like

19:32

two or three of them and I would say like

19:34

, for all the stuff that I heard , like most of them were like

19:36

eight or nine or 10s , like they were like pretty good

19:38

songs , like not not a bad band at

19:40

all and not again , maybe not something

19:42

that I would spend money on to

19:44

go see for like my own personal

19:47

enjoyment , but the fact that like the tickets were

19:49

paid for we're going with a couple other people

19:51

and everything , I was like , yeah , I'll go see the band and

19:54

yeah it just like I

19:57

don't know it was a . It was a great time I was enjoying

19:59

watching the music and I realized that there

20:02

is a sound at concerts

20:04

that like rubs me the wrong way and

20:07

so where I'm going with this is again because different

20:09

people enjoy different things about going to see music . When

20:12

I go to see live music , I want music

20:14

to like take me somewhere , like

20:16

everything that's going on when I go to see music is like

20:18

happening like between my ears . Right , I

20:20

don't go to shows and like dance . Like dancing

20:23

for me is not , that's not

20:25

making me happy .

20:26

And there's seen us , but we probably don't dance on it .

20:29

Well , I can get drunk

20:31

and pretend I'm dancing .

20:33

Yes , I've seen it .

20:33

It's pretty good .

20:35

So so , yeah , so like

20:37

. Look , there's certain styles of music Like if

20:39

somebody I don't know , like if like

20:41

James Brown or something is playing like James Brown

20:44

, it's like it's hard for me to like sit

20:46

still or stand still , like if I hear James

20:48

Brown music and like some of the drummers that

20:50

he's he's had over the years , and guitar players and

20:52

stuff , it's like I can't help but move to

20:54

it . So I respect the fact that some music

20:56

does that for people where they just like they dance

20:58

and everything . But for me , most

21:00

times when I'm going to see bands , I'm

21:02

just either standing or sitting and I'm just like

21:04

letting the music take my brain

21:06

somewhere , whereas I think other people

21:09

they go to see shows sometimes because they

21:11

want the music to take their heart somewhere , right

21:13

and like . For me that's not really . That's

21:16

not me when it comes to music . It's like

21:19

for me it's much more of a cerebral thing rather

21:21

than an emotional thing . But

21:23

I have found it's a sound in music that

21:26

I do not enjoy , and what

21:28

this sound is is

21:30

the sound of

21:33

hundreds

21:35

of people singing

21:37

along with the vocalist , while

21:39

the vocalist is singing through the microphone

21:41

and the and the PA system . There's

21:44

something about that tone , color . It's

21:46

like that ghostly sound of people that are singing

21:48

like sort of on key , sort of not

21:50

sort of on the beat , sort of off . It's like it's a

21:52

weird ghosty sort of

21:54

echo effect of people singing along with

21:56

the singer and , like I know , a lot of people

21:58

love going to shows to see

22:01

that and to like enjoy that and be part of it

22:03

.

22:03

It's like nostalgia looking back . When you see , like

22:05

when they play old things of like whatever

22:08

would stock or whatever , and people you

22:10

know sing the song with them , You're like , oh shit , that's

22:12

so cool Right .

22:13

You're like communal , like right , right

22:16

, well , like people like you know , people like

22:18

they love that community aspect

22:20

of music . And it's like I'm not here to knock

22:22

that or with what I'm saying , but it's

22:25

more just like in terms of my own

22:27

kind of like , my I

22:29

don't know my own like the delivery of the musical

22:31

system to my ears . Right Like there's

22:33

different timbres or tone colors in music . Like a

22:35

saxophone is very like gravelly and sandpapery

22:38

Trumpets , very like rounded and bright

22:40

and like sort of soft and softer , softer

22:42

in its like attack , but like that , that

22:45

tone color of all those like of

22:47

like hundreds of people ghostly singing

22:49

underneath the singer , it kind of

22:51

like irritates me and I like and I feel

22:53

like I discovered that that night

22:55

, but I feel like I've always been that way and

22:57

like not even really realized it until that show

22:59

.

23:00

So if you had the choice , would

23:02

you rather see Arctic monkeys

23:04

like the man you said ? So

23:07

at the man , with everybody there in

23:09

the full experience , everybody having a good time

23:11

, or just you ?

23:15

So just me would be

23:17

awkward and weird . But I would say there's a middle

23:19

ground of like . If there was a venue that had

23:21

like 100 people there , I

23:23

would rather see any band , it doesn't matter who

23:26

it is . I'd rather see them in a small club than

23:28

at like like . One

23:30

of my students just went to see Aerosmith at like I guess

23:32

it was at the

23:34

Wells Fargo Center or something like that . Like I don't think

23:36

I would ever want to go see a show at like a sporting

23:39

stadium like it's like I don't

23:41

think I'd want to do it .

23:42

There's , like I saw the Rolling

23:44

Stones at the link , so that

23:47

was an awesome concert and , being forever

23:49

away , you have to watch the big screens and you

23:51

can barely see them on stage . Still

23:54

, it was amazing , especially

23:56

because the Mick Jaggers 100

23:59

and as doesn't stop moving for

24:01

a three hour concert . It was pretty amazing

24:03

just to see that blood alone hearing

24:05

all of the music . But I

24:08

think once you get to a level then

24:10

it makes it worth the experience of , especially

24:13

if you've never seen Aerosmith live

24:15

. Now they're playing these giant venues

24:17

and it's like , well , I got a If

24:19

I want to see him . Now I got a three year

24:21

window before somebody starts not

24:24

being in the band anymore .

24:25

That's a fair point . When I went to see black

24:28

Sabbath it was at Whatever

24:30

the e-center is called now , I just always

24:33

know it as the center in Camden .

24:35

It's like the BB and T pavilion and now

24:37

it's like some squahana banks , that it's like I

24:39

don't know what it's called . No

24:44

, I think it's only that it's changed

24:46

again I might not even be have sponsorship

24:48

right now .

24:48

It's just like the Venue

24:51

in Camden or some shit .

24:51

It's almost as if , like naming a venue

24:54

after a like Significant , legendary

24:56

figure in history and never having it change

24:59

might be better than just having like Corporate

25:01

twats like sponsoring everything in our lives

25:03

. Yeah , but then again you're like I'm

25:07

not even sales , not even making money

25:09

and then food , beer . That's like $40

25:12

when you're there .

25:13

But then they got to tear down the whole venue and you find

25:15

out what the guy believed in 1905

25:17

.

25:17

Yeah , that's , that is also . But

25:23

black Sabbath Going to black

25:25

Sabbath it was like a similar kind of thing . It's like , yeah

25:28

, you don't have a choice , you have to go where there's

25:30

like a billion people , because

25:33

you don't know when one of them is gonna die

25:35

and then you can't see them ever again . And also

25:37

back then , when I went to , tickets were like $20

25:39

. So when my friend was like , do you want to go see

25:42

black Sabbath for 20 bucks , I was like , yes , I've

25:44

never seen them , let's do that , whereas if you like now

25:46

they might be like 90 .

25:48

Well , it's like the same thing with your Rolling Stone at Metallica

25:51

. That was cool . I mean also

25:54

just the energy , like there was a guy I mean

25:56

we're far like you had to watch the TVs

25:58

and like this guy was headbanging

26:00

with them the whole time in front of us . Now

26:03

I'm standing there like a statue because that's what I do . That's

26:05

what I do , but

26:08

this guy and you know it's really cool

26:10

about going to a venue like that Everybody

26:13

as you're walking same with sporting watching

26:15

all the other people . Yes , but looking

26:17

at everybody , and everybody is doing

26:19

the same similar thing , like , alright

26:21

, we're getting fucked up . Like we're trying

26:23

to get fucked up . We're trying to find the right level of

26:25

getting fucked up . Yeah , whether it's drinking

26:27

or weed or acid or whatever . You

26:30

just look around , it's like everybody is

26:32

on a mission to get fucked up and watch

26:34

Metallica play . It's pretty awesome , yeah

26:36

, and then they're all gonna drive home . I .

26:39

Think as much as you shit on professional wrestling

26:42

. If you were to go to professional

26:44

wrestling stand you would have a great time

26:46

stolen son .

26:47

I Text you that . Had just had the

26:50

Little people wrestling again

26:52

. I wanted to go to that stolen

26:54

son in X-Ten . Yeah , I .

26:56

I mean , I was talking like WWE like

26:58

down at . Wells Fargo Center or

27:00

something like a big venue where

27:02

you're there with all these other people

27:04

, most of which , like everybody that's

27:06

there without kids , which is like 50%

27:08

of the crowd is there to get fucked up and

27:11

then , yell at wrestling wrestlers

27:13

I've never been .

27:14

I've never been . If you want to walk up to somebody

27:17

at a WWE event .

27:18

You can give someone the double middle

27:20

finger and they're just gonna give it right back like

27:22

stone cold and you just keep on with your day .

27:24

It's like it's just a greeting and then places

27:27

like that Well it's . And to

27:29

your point about the , about

27:32

like going to see everyone's

27:34

different level of being fucked up , and

27:36

your point of like observing

27:38

other people , I mean , combine

27:41

those two things and that's what it was like at

27:43

Black Sabbath , at that , at that concert that I

27:45

was mentioning .

27:46

That's a lot of older people will see that rockers

27:48

.

27:48

That's what's cool about right ? So when I walked

27:51

onto the lawn I Was

27:53

like , oh , there's like a dude in like a

27:55

black leather , like

27:57

sleeveless vest and camo pants

27:59

who smells like weed . And next to him is

28:01

like a 16 year old who's

28:03

in a black leather vest and camo pants

28:05

and smells like weed . So it's

28:08

like , yeah , it's like wow , like Black Sabbath is

28:10

like spanning generations and

28:12

like those apples don't fall

28:14

far from from those previous trees .

28:16

Yeah , man , people like to party .

28:17

Yeah , but it's like in the same way , wearing

28:20

the exact same thing , like 40

28:22

or 50 years apart .

28:23

Yeah , it's kind of rad . Yeah , that's pretty insane

28:25

. It's like just take is it .

28:27

Would you go to a concert with your dad and

28:29

coordinate outfits ?

28:30

Oh , these were two separate

28:32

, totally separate people . They were not together .

28:34

It was . It was more just like this . I'm assuming that

28:36

was the child that was like forced to

28:38

be there .

28:39

I , you know , I don't think like I've

28:42

definitely gone to sporting events with my dad . I

28:44

don't know if I could even go to a concert with my

28:46

dad . I , my dad is who

28:49

you . You've probably met him at some point

28:51

, right ? Yeah so

28:53

my dad

28:55

is . My dad has no

28:57

artistic bones in his body . My

28:59

dad is all Function

29:02

and not form whatsoever . So

29:04

I Don't even know

29:06

how my dad would even like react at

29:08

a concert or any

29:10

yeah . I yeah . I mean , he might enjoy

29:13

himself . He's just always he's an easy-going

29:15

dude .

29:15

I feel like you just be like , yeah , let's go It'll be fun

29:18

, but like you have a favorite band , could you even be

29:20

like . This is his music .

29:21

He likes no Like yeah

29:23

, that's not that weird . My dad's the same way

29:25

. Yeah , like my dad like never had any

29:28

music . I think I don't like music .

29:30

I guess , yeah , no my dad will listen to

29:32

sports talk radio , like that's always what was in

29:34

the car when we were kids and

29:37

I think he had like I don't know

29:39

, like Chuck

29:41

Berry cassette tape and maybe

29:43

like a bow diddly , like , like older , like blues

29:45

stuff , that was it like

29:47

. But he , but he tries

29:49

right , like he makes an effort , like years

29:52

ago when I , after one of

29:54

our hockey games , I was at my parents house doing laundry

29:56

and as

29:59

I'm folding laundry in the living room , I hear my

30:01

dad yell from upstairs like Chris

30:04

, quick , turn on channel , fill in the blank

30:06

, or whatever . And I was like , okay , and

30:08

I like turn it on , and it's

30:10

a Luther Vandross concert . And

30:13

I was like Weird

30:15

, like but and

30:17

it's like , and my dad absolutely

30:20

saw that there was music on TV . It

30:22

was like , oh , chris is a musician , he'd

30:24

be interested to see this , but it

30:26

was like Luther Vandross . So he'd like

30:28

, so he like he makes an effort

30:30

, I think , but I just think he doesn't . Yeah , he's

30:32

just , he's like three sheets to the wind

30:34

, I think , when it comes to that sort of stuff my

30:37

dad's thing would probably be duck calls .

30:40

If anything awesome weird shit like

30:42

that . That's amazing .

30:43

Your dad's perfecting his his mallard

30:46

.

30:46

Call in the car didn't like

30:48

sports or musics . Sounds just like okay

30:50

, well , yeah .

30:52

Your dad sounds like a good time , like you said . Apple

30:55

trees make apples . What do you like ?

30:57

Yeah , there's sports or music , music a little

30:59

bit yeah a little bit .

31:02

That's awesome .

31:02

What do you want to jump into ? Our musical thing

31:05

we got or a person we picked ? Yeah sure

31:07

.

31:07

Talking to see . You say you like music

31:09

. The the part , the spotlight

31:12

of local quote-unquote celebrity

31:14

quote-unquote that we're doing this episode

31:16

.

31:16

It's our little thing . We started and it's perfect

31:19

that I picked a music guy . We should come up with

31:21

a name for it , but yeah , we're gonna come up with a

31:23

name for it eventually .

31:24

Okay , so so what is this ?

31:26

We're just like highlighting a local Celebrity

31:29

or whatever , like someone from the Relative

31:33

area that is famous or somewhat famous

31:35

to talk about and do you guys know

31:37

any personally .

31:41

We've just been picking people .

31:42

I mean , I could go like how we're

31:44

playing six degrees at Kevin Bacon , I can find

31:46

some people , yeah , yeah .

31:49

I'm sure so we . I

31:51

told him last night so he had a lot of time to research

31:53

him was Vinny Paz from Jedi

31:56

mind tricks .

31:57

Oh , okay , do you know anything about them ? No

31:59

, no , really I know the , I know the , like

32:01

the name of the group , but I've never listened to them

32:03

. Yeah , I don't know .

32:04

I know Vinny Paz through Patrick is

32:07

like a big . Vinny . Paz , you know he

32:09

likes him a lot .

32:09

Okay .

32:10

I did no research . So you like texted

32:12

me about it and I was out last night going yeah , I

32:15

like I know the name and and I've

32:18

heard I know I've heard his stuff because Patrick's

32:20

played his music .

32:20

I like , while Patrick's played everything , so I couldn't

32:23

, I couldn't pick it out , though . All right

32:25

. Well then , this will be a short one . It's just a

32:27

. He's an Italian born rapper from Philly

32:29

.

32:30

Duo is Jedi , mind tricks Him

32:32

and a stoop is the other guy's

32:35

name also a Philly dude or yeah , but I

32:37

feel like I heard and I've heard you talk about Jedi

32:39

mind trick as a band

32:41

Itself , I knew

32:44

Vinny Paz , but I didn't know he was part

32:46

of Jedi mind trick .

32:48

Yeah , and it's just two dudes , occasionally a third

32:50

dude , but it's just

32:52

once you find them . So it's like you

32:54

find a mortal techniques , one of my favorite rappers

32:56

, and then you start branching out

32:58

of everybody they work with and whatever they've

33:01

featured and whatnot , and then you find

33:03

them because I remember 10

33:05

years ago or so , like 15 years ago

33:07

, a guy was like , oh , if you like that , you got a listen

33:09

to this . I'm like , yeah , I'm not listening to it . And then

33:11

it's eventually come on like , oh shit , this stuff's cool . I should

33:13

have listened to that guy .

33:15

But how are they just rapping , or are

33:18

they like Producing beats or

33:20

throwing like ?

33:20

they do all that stuff like their record

33:22

label and shit like that , Just from doing

33:25

the research I did . But

33:27

basically Jedi mind tricks

33:29

and him solo is like the things that really

33:32

took off his cheese steaks

33:34

is as big a I

33:36

guess song like rogue and head I'm

33:38

on and print like I'll

33:41

go back a little bit . I went to a concert with to see

33:44

a mortal technique at the railroad

33:46

. It's

33:48

in a fucker forget the venue

33:50

down in Philly . Anyway it

33:52

was a nice venue and Mortal

33:55

technique goes on . And then it's like his

33:57

fan base is South

34:00

white Philly guys with like

34:02

beaters or like skinny dudes with extra

34:04

large t-shirts on and the gene

34:06

shorts that come down to their ankles like , that's

34:09

pretty much who listens to his

34:11

music from what I gather from the crowd and

34:14

he comes on and like

34:16

I'm with the wife and everybody in friends , oh

34:18

, those guys are white . Yeah . Had

34:22

you played their music and I played

34:25

all time she says turn this shit off . So everybody

34:27

hates it .

34:27

Nobody likes the music so they have been listening to

34:29

it . And then we're like oh , they're white guys .

34:31

Well , my wife just from one . Whenever I

34:33

played in there she's got . I didn't know those guys were white

34:35

.

34:36

So so if this is a , if

34:38

this is a group that speaks to you , mm-hmm

34:40

, what is it about their music that

34:42

makes you want to go back and listen

34:44

to it more ?

34:46

Vinny pads just has a like real greedy

34:48

Voice . It's

34:51

the stories . Stories for music . For

34:53

me is like probably my favorite part . Like

34:55

not listening with people is you

34:57

know , some songs you turn on like everybody kind of just enjoys

34:59

them , like mostly rock . You know classic

35:02

rock , everybody loves Led Zeppelin , everybody

35:04

loves . You can listen that shit together . Rap

35:06

, especially underground rap , you really don't want

35:08

to listen with anybody . You just want to sit there and you listen

35:10

to the stories like a mortal techniques story

35:13

of like the Him trying to

35:15

be again not him , but the character in the story

35:17

trying to be a Gangster

35:19

, and at the end they end up raping his mom

35:21

and throwing him off the route . He jumps off the roof and shit

35:23

.

35:23

Oh , I didn't know that was that . I've heard that song .

35:25

Yeah , that's a mortal technique , Okay but Jedi

35:28

mind tricks slash Vinny pass . His solo

35:30

stuff is stories like mostly

35:32

Like him being he's

35:34

Italian but he's from Philly , he's

35:37

Muslim , like there's a whole lot of

35:39

twists in there and a lot of his mom's Italian

35:41

. So there's a lot of stories

35:44

in the music . But then it's also like raw

35:46

, gritty , gritty and , like you

35:48

know , like I guess , violent , you could say but

35:51

not like heavy metal Violent . You're

35:53

listening for the lyrics

35:55

like you're not listening because you like the sound

35:57

of the beat , that sounds good too , and the lyrics happen

35:59

to back it up . That's what I like .

36:01

Well , that's also . I guess that that was gonna be the other question

36:03

. I was gonna ask if the , if the storytelling

36:05

aspect of the

36:07

music is what could like

36:09

speaks to you , mm hmm , like the loop , a

36:11

fiasco If it was in a different context

36:13

, like if he was , let's say , like I

36:16

don't know if he was playing piano and and

36:18

doing the exact same thing , right , so that

36:20

.

36:20

So I guess got it apart from the storytelling

36:23

.

36:24

What , then , is hitting for you ? That's not that

36:27

that the piano wouldn't provide .

36:30

I just I like rap . I mean

36:32

, I like a bunch of music for classic rock

36:35

, for instance , but like rap , music is

36:37

speaks to my soul .

36:39

OK yeah , should we tell him

36:41

that if he likes rap , he really likes jazz

36:43

, because it's all basically

36:45

sampling jazz .

36:46

Well , that's another thing about his music like

36:48

same with Mortal Tech . They use a lot of samples

36:51

like old stuff , like

36:53

you can see his the way

36:55

he put stuff together . A lot of TV

36:57

interviews will be like mixed into his stuff

37:00

. Same with Killer Mike when he does

37:02

that Reagan song like plays

37:04

a clip in the news and then , you

37:06

know , wraps and then plays another clip . And I like

37:09

that shit too , yeah .

37:11

See , like I as a like

37:13

thinking of music as an audible

37:16

art and visual art

37:18

as a visual art , right , a

37:20

lot of times , like I try to sometimes think about the

37:23

two and how they relate

37:25

to each other or like like . For

37:27

me , like whenever I think about rap music and I think

37:29

about a lot of sampling and stuff , to me it's almost

37:31

like the equivalent visual art wise of like

37:33

collages , where you're like finding existing

37:35

things but you're creating like a new composition

37:38

by like assembling all these existing things

37:40

together and I think sometimes , like

37:42

with the , the backgrounds

37:45

in rap music that rappers are rapping

37:47

over . I think that's what's kind of interesting

37:49

about that genre . Like even

37:51

if you took , say , like like Ice

37:54

Cube , like today was a good day , right

37:57

, that little guitar figure is from the Isley

37:59

Brothers footsteps in the dark . So

38:01

you listen and the drumbeat is to a certain

38:03

degree , but it sounds like the drumbeat is like like somebody

38:05

else recorded something similar and

38:08

then they took a couple bars of that and then that was the drum

38:10

sample that they put with the guitar part

38:12

, and so again you have this whole new

38:14

, you have a new song that's like with

38:17

existing snippets of music that get

38:19

kind of Frankenstein together , like I said

38:21

, like almost like a collage , where it's like some

38:23

artists might you know , whether

38:25

it's like pencil or paint or

38:27

ink or charcoal , whatever they're using

38:30

they start with the blank piece

38:32

of paper and then everything is being created from

38:34

nothing , right , whereas

38:36

I think a lot of times with rap music what's interesting is that

38:38

there's they're taking a lot of things that are already in

38:41

existence and they're hearing things

38:43

in it where it's like , oh , I hear this

38:45

segment of this song and this drumbeat from this

38:47

song or like like an album like Paul's boutique

38:49

, right , I don't know if you get down with the Beastie Boys

38:51

at all , but like Paul's boutique has like

38:53

a ton of samples from

38:55

like tons of different bands and

38:58

like I don't know if it's still the case , but I know years ago

39:00

people were like , yeah , they're still in like litigation

39:02

for like all of the shit that they used on

39:04

that album , like not getting like proper

39:07

like permission and rights to use

39:09

it all . But it is kind of interesting to me to like

39:11

format music that way , where you're

39:13

hearing existing things taking

39:15

existing things and then you

39:18

have this whole amalgam of that stuff and it becomes this

39:20

whole , this whole new piece of music .

39:22

Well , the cool thing about it is like you might not have

39:24

like a person like me would have never heard

39:26

the thing that they're sampling . So it's like not

39:28

that I can understand why people might

39:30

get mad about sampling like , oh well , they're taking

39:33

something that's previously already existed and

39:35

they're using it for their benefit , but it's

39:37

like I would have never heard the other thing

39:39

. They took a piece of something , add

39:41

it to it , and then now it is something

39:43

that maybe some would argue is better .

39:46

Yeah , that's not a bad point . It's like

39:48

it almost is like how much are

39:50

you taking of the original and how

39:52

much are you changing it to make it something new

39:54

? So like again , comparing that to visual

39:56

art , there was an artist , roy Lichtenstein

39:59

, who used to take these old , like comic

40:01

book panels and then he

40:03

would just like repaint them as like

40:05

a gigantic , you know like

40:07

maybe the canvas might be like the

40:09

, I don't know like four

40:11

feet by five feet or something like that Like , but

40:13

it would be one panel from a comic book and he would just

40:16

kind of like paint it .

40:18

And there was this you know he paint

40:20

the exact panel .

40:21

Kind of yeah , like

40:24

if you look at the like his famous one

40:26

is man I don't even remember the name of the piece of

40:28

art , but it's like this woman who is in

40:30

, like it's

40:32

a close up of her face in the bottom right hand corner

40:34

and her eyes are closed and there's like a tear like

40:37

coming down her eye and like

40:39

there's like water , like she's

40:41

in , like there's like ocean waves behind

40:43

her or whatever . And it's pulled directly from

40:45

this , like this old sixties

40:47

like love comic book like , not

40:49

even like a superhero comic or anything like that

40:52

, but it's like it's like our love or true love

40:54

or something like that . And it's like

40:56

almost literally taken like that panel

40:58

and just painting that panel . And then meanwhile

41:01

that comic book artist is getting paid , like

41:03

you know what like

41:05

whatever at the time was

41:07

like the going rate of like $10 a page

41:09

or whatever in the sixties that they were getting paid . So

41:12

it's like a fraction of that for that one

41:14

panel is what that artist got paid . But

41:16

then you know Lichtenstein's making like

41:18

millions of dollars off of that image

41:20

. So it's like with with again

41:23

going back to the comparison with rap music , it's

41:25

like if you just like take a song

41:27

and rap over it . It's like , well , that's still that

41:30

original artist song . But if you're

41:32

again with the like the example of the Ice Cube

41:34

tune , it's like you could take that that

41:37

guitar part from the Isley Brothers and then play

41:39

like a different drum beat over top of it . Put

41:42

those like those girls in the background that are singing

41:44

. They're doing that little thing like that's

41:46

not on the Isley Brothers tune . So it's like

41:48

you put all that stuff together and now again

41:51

there's all these little ingredients , as

41:53

opposed to just like making the exact same

41:55

dish the exact same way and then

41:57

just rapping over it . That latter

41:59

thing , I would say , is kind of lame , but

42:01

the former , I think , is interesting . Where you're , you're

42:03

creating something totally new from existing stuff

42:05

.

42:06

See , that painting thing kind of throws us like well

42:08

, that how does that guy

42:10

get sued yeah ? Well

42:13

, maybe he should be getting paid for the original

42:15

artwork . But I mean , how many eyes would have ever

42:17

in the history been on that

42:19

one little thing , whereas he took

42:21

it ? And now way more people

42:23

see it , and you know , obviously

42:25

the original creator should get maybe

42:28

credit at least , but

42:32

if it's in the pages of something that nobody's

42:34

going to look at ever , Well

42:37

, I mean , I guess it all depends on you in

42:39

a cave and then you go in and cave and be like , oh shit , that's

42:41

cool . And then you go out and you're in a giant

42:43

city and you paint it and everybody holy shit , that's the coolest thing

42:45

I've ever seen .

42:47

Well , nobody's going to go to the cave and it is relative

42:49

, like that Right , like who knows

42:51

how many people are reading that comic right Could

42:53

be a lot , could be few , depends on the popularity

42:56

, I guess , of the of that particular magazine . But

42:59

I know personally , like if I , if I

43:01

created a piece of music and

43:03

let's say somebody took

43:05

that music and they were like okay

43:08

, we're gonna distribute this music so that , like

43:10

, so many people around the world could hear it

43:12

and You're not gonna make

43:14

any money off of it . Yeah , there's , I'm

43:16

not gonna make any money off of it either , I

43:19

would be like cool , I'm on board with it . But

43:21

if they were like , yeah , I'm gonna take that music

43:24

and everybody's gonna like everybody in the world , we'll

43:26

get a chance to hear it . But I'm gonna

43:28

make millions of dollars and you're gonna make like next

43:30

to nothing that I again . That's

43:32

like .

43:33

I think that would be like I mean , there's

43:36

definitely that's , that's just stealing

43:38

right yeah , so that I think .

43:40

I think it would be a little bit more problematic .

43:42

But definitely Some

43:45

, and that's why they have all that the different

43:47

laws and the difference it's so hard to like

43:50

. We were talking with a vex about

43:52

what the

43:54

fucking ? The vanilla ice

43:56

and queen , yeah , yeah

43:58

, or even like the .

43:59

Robin thick one like the Robin , thick to

44:01

like the was it .

44:02

Marvin .

44:03

Gaye , I think , was the .

44:05

Was the original . Yeah , because you

44:07

can't like there's only 12 tones

44:09

in music you can't really like and

44:11

there's only so many like combinations of notes

44:13

to create chords . So it's like you can't copyright

44:16

a chord progression . But I think

44:18

when you start to have like a chord progression , a melody over

44:20

top of it where it is so similar , yeah

44:22

, then then you run into some some issues

44:24

there .

44:25

Well , yeah , but vanilla ice defense

44:28

, that was , that was an

44:30

all-time . Yeah

44:32

, for sure there goes . Dun , dun , dun dun

44:34

.

44:35

Mine is done done , done done .

44:38

Yeah but though you said the same thing

44:41

twice .

44:41

Yeah , that was great . Man RIP

44:44

behind the music RIP .

44:46

Well , I guess that was a short one of Vinny

44:49

Paz , but he has a great

44:51

Rogan dude's really smart , like super

44:53

, like I . You know , with his fan base you look

44:55

like okay , white rapper , but really

44:58

intelligent and I mean , you're one

45:00

of his fans , exactly . Well , that's

45:02

the funny part about going to a concert to see who

45:05

shows up . It's like , oh , wide swath

45:07

of people because you

45:09

, it , music hits a Bunch

45:12

of different people , but then there's always a majority

45:14

of people it hits you know what I mean . Like slipknot

45:17

with white guys in trailer parks . It's

45:19

just gonna be a hit every time .

45:21

Right in St Clown Posse yeah of course

45:23

or white people , but like if , as a

45:25

musician say , agent moosehead

45:27

throws a new album up and that album

45:29

just gets crazy popular with

45:31

. Safety insane

45:33

clown posse . You like you know community

45:36

. Yeah , do you now lean into that ? Or

45:38

you're like , hmm , I don't think I

45:40

want to be have a fandom

45:43

like this .

45:44

It's a , it's a , it's a , an

45:47

ethical debate that I would

45:49

say it all depends on

45:51

you could be a millionaire , but

45:53

everybody streaming your song also

45:55

likes to kick dogs . Yeah

45:57

, like again , that's sort of the thing it's like . If

46:00

I knew that it's

46:03

a tough question to answer , and I'm not even saying

46:05

that because of the millionaire part of it , I'm saying it

46:07

just in terms of like , if you're creating

46:09

something like a television show or

46:11

an album or a Video game or

46:13

whatever , it's like if I created a video

46:16

game , do I want to be like , okay , well , you

46:18

, you and you , you're okay to play that

46:20

video game , but you , you and you , because of

46:22

the choices you've made in life , like you're not allowed

46:24

. I feel like that I couldn't do

46:26

that as somebody who's creating something . But

46:29

I would have a moral dilemma knowing that like

46:31

, oh , the people that really like my music also

46:33

, like you know , kick dogs

46:35

, to use your example . I would just be like , oh man , like

46:38

I . I feel like , just

46:40

on the spot you asking me now . I think

46:42

my solution to that would be like , hey , me

46:44

personally , I don't like to kick

46:47

dogs and I'm not here for kicking dogs

46:49

. I love dogs . If people

46:51

want to listen to my music , I want them to

46:53

enjoy it , but if they kick dogs , that's

46:55

what they're doing in their , in their own time

46:57

. Like I can't , I can't control the entire

47:00

world and what their behavior is . All I can

47:02

do is control , like what my own behavior is , and I

47:04

don't support kicking dogs . I've

47:06

never kicked dogs and I don't encourage anyone

47:08

to do that . I think that's . I

47:10

don't know .

47:12

Be a real mind . Fuck .

47:13

They're like okay , what in my music is

47:15

invoking like is calling out

47:18

to those people specifically that would be

47:20

weird , but every time there's a news story of

47:22

like , this guy came up into my yard and kicked my

47:24

dog , he was listening . I checked his

47:26

phone and he was listening to the newest agent , moose

47:28

head .

47:29

Especially because , like our music , doesn't

47:31

have any lyrics . It's all instrumental . I'm just like what

47:33

are you hearing in there ? That makes you want to kick dogs

47:35

. That's what the mind fuck would be . Yeah , I'd just be like what

47:38

?

47:38

Taylor Swift , all young girls Okay

47:40

, I see P all poor white people

47:42

with tragic stories , I'm sure . And

47:44

well , like who else ? Like who

47:47

else like ? Who listens to Creed you

47:49

?

47:49

know like what , what Christian

47:52

rock . I think Creed is pretty like when

47:54

biscuit when ever .

47:55

When he came out , it's like everybody that wore a backwards

47:57

like baseball cap . Yeah , like with

48:00

a puffy coat .

48:02

Yeah , it's like that type of thing , but

48:04

terrible like you be , like , hmm , do I stop

48:06

making music , or do you make

48:08

a concerted effort to ? The next

48:10

thing you put out is Something

48:12

so totally different than what you

48:14

just did . Yeah , I don't know .

48:16

I think I , I think I'm I'm hard

48:18

pressed to answer that question only because

48:21

I don't think I've ever put out any music

48:23

that tons of people have listened to . It's

48:26

all been like sort of a , a

48:28

smaller niche of individuals

48:30

, I guess . I don't know .

48:33

He'll come back and tell us when he becomes popular

48:35

. Yeah , one of his bands . Yeah , how many bands

48:37

are you ?

48:37

in . Well , I

48:40

guess I would say that , like right now

48:42

, really like one functioning band

48:44

. I would say the g-force quartet Is

48:47

definitely like a functioning band . Yeah

48:50

, with agent moosehead , you

48:52

know , we had a a very

48:55

strong run from like 2004

48:58

up to the pandemic , and then , when the pandemic

49:00

hit , it's like , yeah , we played a couple gigs here and

49:02

there , but it's like , yeah

49:05

, I don't know , I like I , I

49:07

think I would be For

49:09

lack of a better term I would be at peace with

49:12

the , you know the

49:14

way it ended . Yeah , with kind of had saying like

49:16

, yeah , we like we played for like over

49:18

15 years , I think , and like I

49:21

don't know . In that time there's been a lot of bands

49:23

that we've interacted with or played with

49:25

who were here for like Five

49:28

months and then they broke up or like I

49:31

mean , even one of our favorite bands made hand

49:33

. It's like they started

49:35

, I guess , whenever

49:37

they they did like 2012

49:41

or 13 or 14 somewhere in that vicinity

49:43

, and then we played a good number of shows with them

49:45

. We there were , like our favorite Philly

49:47

band . We love playing with them and then

49:49

, yeah , they just like don't play anymore .

49:52

Then it's almost got to be a labor

49:54

of love , especially if there's like you

49:56

guys aren't making ton of money . Everybody's got jobs

49:58

, families .

50:00

It's fucking hard Well that's the thing , and I and

50:02

I'm probably repeating myself From the last

50:05

episode that I was on , because I think we did talk a little

50:07

bit about this stuff but I think if

50:09

you're not a national touring band , if

50:11

you're not , if you're not making a name for yourself

50:13

Across the entire country and playing in

50:15

different cities every single night for

50:18

months out of the calendar year , your

50:21

, your success in your fan base

50:23

is directly proportionate to the amount

50:25

of people in your life that are Getting

50:28

married , having kids , buying houses , all

50:30

that sort of stuff . Because when people take

50:32

those next steps in life , there's

50:35

less and less time and money to go see

50:37

music or to go or even just . I

50:39

mean , let's be real , I'm not naive

50:42

enough to know that like sometimes when people came

50:44

to see the band play , it was because

50:46

they were just going out to have beers . Like they

50:48

wanted to come , go out and get drunk , they wanted to

50:50

like get drinks , but they were like , well , we

50:52

could just go to the bar and I think like we could catch the

50:54

last couple innings of the Phillies game . Or I think

50:56

like Chris and Pete and like agent moosehead

50:59

are playing , like let's go there , we'll like catch their

51:01

set while we have beers . I don't think anybody

51:03

well , I shouldn't say not anybody , but I think the

51:05

percentage of people that

51:07

were like , oh , I can't wait for , like the band

51:09

to play , like I can't wait to see them again I

51:12

mean , not that I'm trying to be self

51:14

deprecating or anything , I think just the reality of it is

51:16

is that , like , that percentage I think is smaller

51:18

than the percentage of people that just wanted to go out and have a good

51:20

time that night and we were Providing music

51:22

for that good time . But as people are getting

51:24

older buying houses , having kids , like all

51:27

those expenses that go with it and the time consumption

51:29

, it's like , you know , we had a

51:31

nice little second wave because my brother

51:33

is seven years younger than me . So

51:35

all of my friends , when they started getting older and

51:37

having kids and having , you know , wives

51:40

and stuff like that , they stopped coming

51:42

to shows . But all of Pete's friends

51:44

were still like in their mid 20s to late

51:46

20s . So they , they picked up the slack

51:48

and then they came to a lot of shows . But

51:50

like now that Pete's like 35 or whatever

51:53

it's like it's done , like I , like I

51:55

Don't know , I just like I I Love

51:59

writing music , I love playing music . I

52:01

love sharing it with people . To

52:03

me , that's the whole . I tell students this

52:05

all the time . It's like the whole reason you do what you do

52:07

is to share it with people . You want other people to

52:09

hear it , whether it's like the dude that's next

52:12

to you on stage that's playing with you , or

52:14

the 10 people that are at the bar listening to

52:16

you , or the 10,000

52:19

that are in this like a gigantic stadium

52:22

, it's like you're trying to share what you're doing with other people

52:24

. So eventually , I don't

52:26

know . It's like you get to a point where there's

52:28

like who are you sharing it with ? Like

52:30

so , if you can share with the other Musicians

52:32

and you guys get together and you like play on the on

52:34

the porch , you like get together and , you

52:37

know , have a couple beers and play some music , like that's an

52:39

awesome , it's an awesome thing to do . Or

52:41

if you're playing a gig , like

52:44

we have a . We have

52:46

G-Force is playing on September

52:48

23rd for the forest in main , oktoberfest

52:50

, and that's a great event . That

52:52

like .

52:54

Multiplug . Yeah , yeah , thanks , you got it . You

52:56

got to make sure we get this out before next weekend .

53:00

Yeah , if not , maybe time travel is

53:02

a thing when we get into October people can go back

53:04

in time and watch the show . But but

53:07

yeah , no , just a solid number

53:09

of bands that play and they have , like

53:11

you know , beers and food trucks and all that

53:13

sort of stuff , and it's like throughout the day Hundreds

53:16

of people will be going in and out of that

53:18

particular establishment and They'll

53:21

get to hear , like maybe somebody shows up and

53:23

they're there for an hour and they get to hear the back end

53:25

of one band set and the front end of another

53:27

band set , and just for that particular day

53:29

they might not even know the names of any of the bands

53:31

, but they're enjoying that music while they're there and

53:33

that's kind of the the point . So with

53:35

I again , I think with G-Force , there are more

53:38

opportunities to like do that kind of stuff

53:40

and play in

53:42

those Opportunities

53:44

and and those types of environments where

53:46

people can just , hey , they're gonna be

53:49

there , they're gonna be drinking anyway , they can enjoy the music

53:51

that you're playing . You can hopefully get them

53:53

to stay there a little bit longer and order a couple extra

53:55

beers . So then you're helping the establishment that's paying

53:57

you , but with with agent

53:59

moose head and I Don't know

54:01

. Just like creating and writing original music , like

54:03

I still I love to do it , but

54:05

I mean , at the same time it's I

54:08

don't know who . I don't

54:10

know who would come to see it at this point , compared

54:13

to who would come to see it before .

54:14

That's what I was just gonna ask about is being one

54:17

of the if not like the pivotal

54:19

difference between agent moose head

54:21

and g-Force quartet being G-Forces

54:24

, you're just playing jazz sheet

54:27

music and throwing your own Solos

54:29

on top of it and , as a band , running

54:32

through all of that , but it's not

54:34

a creative endeavor per

54:36

se , whereas everything agent moose

54:38

head was you . You're

54:40

not taking anything in from anybody else . You wrote

54:43

all of the music for all of the instruments

54:45

and had it wanted to sound your

54:47

way . This is what it's gonna be .

54:51

Yes , I would say that's .

54:52

that's fairly accurate , yeah , but

54:55

so but

54:57

you don't have that , I guess , where your

54:59

creative release was creating

55:01

music for agent moose head and I feel

55:03

I Know you well enough to think

55:05

you still have

55:07

to be either creating music or having turned

55:09

that into a New

55:12

angle of attack on something , because

55:14

you I feel like that doesn't go

55:16

away , that impulse to want

55:18

to create like that .

55:20

Yeah , I think that , like

55:22

I said , I think there's a lot of what you said that that

55:25

is Spot on

55:27

. But I think there is also

55:29

another element of In

55:31

the genre that g-Force plays

55:34

, like the style of music you

55:36

can , you can use that as

55:38

a creative outlet , especially when it comes to the improvisation

55:41

. So it's like , if you have like a

55:44

certain Like , we'll say , like you're , you're

55:46

soloing over the form of a song and you have

55:48

like the chords that you have to play over . So

55:51

when you're taking your solos , those

55:53

are the moments that you can satisfy

55:55

those , that that creative

55:58

drive to do something new

56:00

and different . Because if you had I

56:02

don't know if we had a gig once

56:05

a month for the next four months and let's

56:07

say we did a tune like fall , each

56:09

time the

56:14

solo in September would sound different

56:16

than the one in October , the one in November , the one

56:18

in December . That's where you can

56:21

satisfy some of those creative

56:23

urges . I think also , again , in the way

56:25

that you're interpreting the music

56:27

too , you can kind of be creative in the way you're

56:29

communicating the music to the listener , because

56:32

I mean , I know you've seen G-Force a couple times

56:34

and it's even

56:36

though we're taking some songs that have that very

56:38

like , like very traditional

56:40

jazz sort of vibe . The way that

56:42

we do them is sort of like it's injected

56:47

with a little bit more I don't

56:49

know like electric music compared to

56:51

more traditional jazz , like the bebop

56:54

era of jazz in like the

56:57

50s and 60s and stuff

56:59

like that . So I think you can still

57:01

take like because , as we

57:03

talked about before , those like lead sheets of just like the

57:05

melody and the chord progression . You

57:07

can take a lead sheet and you could

57:09

take it in a million different directions . If we were in like a

57:11

bossa nova or like a samba band , we could like

57:14

, we could salsa out like

57:16

any of those particular

57:18

songs and

57:20

just . Or if you were in like a I don't

57:22

know if you were in a really experimental

57:24

, like heady , like fusion-y kind of band

57:26

, you could do the same thing and like like

57:29

. There was a saxophone player , joshua

57:31

Redman , who recorded an album in the

57:33

2000s and he does Ornette

57:35

Coleman's . I

57:37

think it's Lonely Woman and it's like and that's

57:39

that Ornette Coleman tune is from the late 50s

57:42

. But when you listen to the Joshua Redman

57:44

version there's like synthesizer

57:46

sequences and like and like all

57:49

sorts of interesting percussion and stuff , but the melody

57:51

and the chord progression is the same . So it's still like

57:53

the song , it still has that like

57:55

the same elements of the original tune , but

57:58

you can do different things with it

58:00

. So so

58:02

, like I said , you're right in that like composing

58:05

original music is definitely a a a

58:08

satisfire for those urges as

58:11

well . But

58:13

I think , like playing playing

58:15

jazz music , like you get to , you

58:17

get to hit those spots as a musician

58:19

just as much , or even in like

58:22

different ways .

58:23

And also .

58:24

I guess the other thing I would add to that too is just in

58:26

in much

58:28

more freeing ways . And so I

58:30

guess what I mean by that is like with

58:32

Agent Moosehead . It's like if I was writing

58:35

the bass part , the all

58:37

the parts for the horns , the keyboard parts and

58:39

the guitar part , and and like loosely

58:41

kind of talking with the drummer about like how

58:43

things we're going to go from the beginning to

58:45

the end of the piece of music . It's

58:47

definitely a higher stress level

58:50

when you're performing live , because

58:52

I'm constantly listening to

58:54

make sure everything is going the right way , like the way

58:56

it's supposed to go from like the original

58:58

, the original music , whereas

59:01

like with jazz , it's just kind of like everybody can

59:03

be left up to their own accord a little

59:05

bit more and you can just kind of relax and play

59:07

because you know that like everybody's

59:09

looking at the exact same piece of music , everybody's

59:12

interpreting it in their own way . So

59:14

when Pete is playing bass over a tune , he's

59:16

like he's just playing

59:18

. he's comping with those chords and

59:21

just playing along to those , to the

59:23

basic harmonic structures

59:25

of those chords . He's just creating his baseline

59:27

on the spot . But I have enough faith

59:30

and trust in Pete that he knows

59:32

his business well enough to

59:35

be able to like play through the bass and I don't even

59:37

have to worry about it . All I have to do is listen to him , and

59:39

that , to me , is when music

59:41

is the most

59:43

freeing , when all you're doing is like listening

59:46

to the other musicians and you're playing

59:48

off of them , instead of like almost

59:50

being a babysitter to the musicians to make sure everything

59:52

is coming out right .

59:53

Okay .

59:54

So it's like lower , lower stress and more

59:56

reward . I think in a

59:58

lot of ways .

1:00:01

Well said . So

1:00:03

what does anybody ever just like she

1:00:05

guys are done and then somebody just keeps

1:00:07

going with a solo themselves ? You guys like fuck

1:00:10

this guy , Just like

1:00:12

a random , just pulled it out of his ass . Like you know

1:00:14

what . I've been working on this secretly on the side , and after

1:00:16

everybody's done I'm gonna play my thing .

1:00:19

I don't know . I guess I

1:00:21

think it goes back to , like , the musicians

1:00:23

personalities . I guess it's just . It's really I

1:00:27

don't know . I guess there's musicians out there that would do that .

1:00:29

But I'm gonna wait for these guys to stop . They're gonna think

1:00:31

we're done and I'm banging on my thing that I created

1:00:33

. No , I don't think . I've never done that . You've never gotten

1:00:35

greedy on the guitar like you're coming up to the end

1:00:37

.

1:00:38

As you say , you take the one piece of sheet music

1:00:40

and then you're go through to

1:00:42

do the solo . You never got to the end and went . I'm

1:00:45

throwing some more on here .

1:00:47

Yeah , and I don't think so . I think I

1:00:49

think you know you mentioned storytelling

1:00:51

. With a lot of the music that

1:00:53

you listen to , I think the storytelling

1:00:56

aspect you , you , I think as a as

1:00:59

a musician , when you're soloing , if you're

1:01:01

listening to what's going on with

1:01:03

the rest of the band and you're listening to what

1:01:06

you're doing , you're telling that story . They're

1:01:08

sort of like , you know , like an introduction

1:01:11

, and then you're , you have like sort of a rising action

1:01:14

, you know . However , however , you want to lay out

1:01:16

the story . You're laying out the story and

1:01:19

I think a good musician just kind of knows

1:01:22

, like when , when

1:01:24

you have , like , you've

1:01:26

told the tale , you know , and I yeah , I don't even think

1:01:28

even some of the musicians that

1:01:31

have played that music with us over the years , I don't

1:01:33

think anybody has like overstepped

1:01:36

their boundaries or overstayed their welcome with a solo . I

1:01:39

think my OCD a little bit likes to keep things in even

1:01:42

numbers , like if you're

1:01:44

, if I'm soloing over the form of a song

1:01:46

, I'm going to do it twice or four times , I would like , if I did it three

1:01:48

times , I would feel like fucking weird . Now

1:01:52

, trumpet player Bart , that we work with a lot

1:01:54

. He doesn't care about that , like

1:01:57

if he's playing , if it takes him

1:01:59

three cycles or three courses , three

1:02:01

, however , you want to . However , when you think of it , if

1:02:03

he can say what he wants to say in three , he's good , and then

1:02:05

he'll just like , you know , he'll get to his

1:02:07

last couple of notes and then he'll just like , look over at me and give

1:02:09

me the high sign that , like , we're going back to that . Once

1:02:13

we hit that repeat , we go back to the top of the head , you're up and it's

1:02:16

like , and I'm like , really Like you just went three times

1:02:18

, though that's fucking weird , but it's like , but he

1:02:20

, but he's cool with it , whereas , like , for me , it's like

1:02:22

it's got to be two or four , like I just it doesn't feel right if I do

1:02:24

it three . But

1:02:28

I think sometimes , even as I'm playing , I'm like thinking about

1:02:30

where it's going to go over those two or over those four or whatever . Damn

1:02:33

, you know a lot about music

1:02:35

.

1:02:38

So this is another episode of the Expressly

1:02:40

podcast with Kevin Stan . Thanks for coming out .

1:02:41

Chris , this is awesome .

1:02:44

Thank you again . Thanks for having me Every time . It's

1:02:46

so good .