0:00

We know our new method.

0:03

Of attack. Stat

0:10

that. That

0:13

meant a new perfect. Be greedy and

0:15

welcome back to another exciting instalment of

0:17

the Fifth Column podcast. This is your

0:19

weekly rhetorical sort of news. I can.

0:21

We couldn't make it in the casually

0:23

ourselves. I'm coming onstream still here in

0:26

New York. I'm with Michael Moynahan and

0:28

Don Lemon. Nice. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm

0:30

dumb. Eminent Welsh know you're not the

0:32

I will never be that were It

0:34

shoots well. and you also never be

0:36

that terrible at interviewing. I. Can

0:38

I go the he's that veteran the

0:40

Mm. Maybe add a lurid middle of

0:43

unlimited eleven or Cnn? yeah, but he

0:45

as for why eight million dollars and

0:47

seven cyber drugs and some air roller

0:49

skates? Reason I heard dismays Yeah, I

0:51

mean he I just we. I mean,

0:53

I would ask for those things as

0:55

well. So. I suppose we

0:57

are good. Have voted for a similar

0:59

appetite yeah, but I mean you can't

1:02

phone for and that essentially. but is

1:04

there. There is kind of a disconnect

1:06

between what he believes he's worth is

1:08

actually for a it's like it's like

1:10

when I see things on Ebay that

1:12

are priced higher than they are on

1:14

Amazon. Get a good investment. That's.

1:16

Not, you don't have any idea what that's worth

1:19

do. And that's Don Lemon talking about thing about

1:21

himself because I watch them an interview. And.

1:23

I am. I'm

1:25

always willing. I'm happy and want

1:28

to. Have because you know

1:30

as I'm I'm going to be heterodox is

1:32

So I want to say the opposite thing.

1:34

And been ago, he's a great interview. He

1:36

absolutely isn't the worst interview or it's It's

1:39

almost like he's A. he didn't do the

1:41

homework, He he's stuttering through things, he's dropping

1:43

all these things and in it you know

1:45

in front of do on on, tell everyone

1:47

who's interviewing. Deleted. Know that.

1:50

I mean, it's Don Lemon.

1:52

Everyone knows Don Lemon. We're

1:54

all paying. It's the A

1:56

Lemon, right? He was interviewing Elon

1:58

Musk. Yes, That area is

2:01

really bad. Very brief career.

2:04

Working. For or my own we're didn't

2:06

even actually mouse the I were to go

2:08

shading the deal he earns us to produce

2:10

a show yeah would are distributed on exit

2:13

very uncool The suspect our national as as

2:15

the I was like do you remember when

2:17

that happens yeah I sent a text you

2:20

guys I was like oh my god that's

2:22

a such a stupid get move from Elon

2:24

musk yeah jumped to fire to first time

2:26

and time for the interview aired as the

2:29

as it it was a bad as the

2:31

amount as easy as were very very survivor

2:33

in your. Criticism of a lot. So

2:35

I'm as as somebody who likes to

2:37

change their mind and do mayocoba on

2:40

your eye popping off as actually I

2:42

agree with you on masks this is

2:44

that your new boss and you're like

2:46

why are you such a racist and

2:48

like when work assists Here's where arm

2:51

that the he doesn't even get a

2:53

half a half culpa our house Something

2:55

Nothing you don't Hired Mother fuckin The

2:57

first place was as like like when

2:59

Ben Shapiro eventually fires Candace Iowans I'm

3:02

not him stand up and a plot.

3:04

I want to say what the fuck were you doing?

3:06

Did you see the thing that someone pointed out that

3:08

she was liking. As sweet as

3:10

to find someone in a it's still

3:13

I get it wrong, doesn't want I

3:15

can his own to sue me so

3:17

see a couple things. Recently was one

3:19

that she said i'm in a bet.

3:22

My. Reputation. As.

3:24

A girl you don't have a specific

3:26

and pass on this story. yeah that

3:28

Emanuel Mack crowns wife is actually a

3:30

man. He says Mrs. and now as

3:32

the yeah there's some conspiracy theory and

3:34

I think the people have been taken

3:36

to court This to women. like

3:39

one of them is like a farmer who

3:41

suffer just this weird couple a conspiracy women

3:43

in france who have been person is conspiracy

3:45

theory that i may microns wife who is

3:48

getting sixty five years older than his his

3:50

and song trump was like remember they're digging

3:52

holes out in the white house garden oh

3:55

that's receives that matter like how you can't

3:57

batty yeah yeah yeah it turns out he's

3:59

gay She asked Cam at

4:02

someone, why her hero so entrapment

4:04

again. But yeah, she's like,

4:07

it's clearly a man. And she's like, let me just

4:09

break this down for 60 seconds. And I'm like, zoink,

4:12

next, please. But

4:14

someone pointed out that she liked

4:17

a tweet that

4:20

somebody responding to Rabbi Schmooley,

4:23

who I've met a few times and is a

4:25

bit much. He's a bit of a handful.

4:28

This is the guy, there was a video going around.

4:31

Oh, him supposedly saying the N word.

4:33

Yeah. I don't know if that's true.

4:35

I saw some hard R. Yeah, hard R. Like

4:37

a racist R. The exact

4:39

phrase, Jew hating nigger. Oh

4:41

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe

4:44

he said, are you hating? Maybe

4:46

you misheard it, but not the last bit. You

4:48

didn't hear it. Yeah, I don't know if that's

4:50

authentic. It was hard for me

4:52

to tell what was going on there. Cause

4:54

it's like a snippet of audio and then

4:56

it cuts off. Someone could basically suggest that it

4:59

was a, I think the post suggested it was

5:01

a Twitter spaces that he said this in

5:03

and then quickly like disconnected it, which is

5:05

just kind of insane. It's very hard to imagine

5:07

that someone would actually do that, but. I

5:10

mean, Rabbi Schmooley, maybe he referred to her in a tweet

5:13

as the arch anti-semite Candace

5:18

Owens, inciting her Jew hatred,

5:20

blah, blah, blah. That's not concise. So inciting

5:22

her Jew hating followers to threaten to murder

5:24

Jews, et cetera. So somebody

5:28

responds to this. It says

5:30

February 20th, rabbi, are

5:32

you drunk on Christian blood again?

5:34

Oh, a classic blood libel. What?

5:37

I mean, a literal blood libel. Wait,

5:39

she liked that? She liked that tweet.

5:41

No way. Sometimes her fingers just like

5:43

you can't. No, in her

5:45

defense, I've pocket blocked people.

5:48

I've done all kinds of things

5:50

unwittingly that way. So it's

5:52

possible that this happened in her pocket. It would

5:54

be really ironic that it happened in her pocket

5:56

on a tweet about her being an anti-semite. It

5:58

would be. It would be. Yeah,

6:03

it's pretty amazing. It's not outside of

6:05

the realm of possibility. No, it's not.

6:07

No, no, it's not. What was so

6:09

bad about the Don Lemon interview? So

6:11

with Elon Musk, because you guys are

6:13

yammering about it in the thread, in

6:15

the never ending thread. And

6:18

I didn't want to care because

6:20

the obsession with Elon Musk, I

6:22

saw it. You know what? I'm going to

6:24

intersperse an observation here about

6:27

Instagram. It's been fucking

6:29

ruined. Instagram is my place to

6:31

post inexplicable photos, usually,

6:33

of my nine-year-old. And

6:35

that's fine. And now

6:37

when you look at other people's Instagram,

6:40

they show threads. Threads? I don't have that,

6:42

because I guess because I never signed up.

6:44

I signed up, but then I immediately unsigned

6:46

up because

6:49

it was terrible. And so every time, one of

6:51

the last ones I saw was

6:54

from Jeff Jarvis, the professor.

6:56

He's the best. And

6:58

he was like, what was the

7:00

thread that he came up with, like

7:03

the banality of Elon, or

7:05

something along those lines? That's the

7:07

book title that I want. I don't want to actually write the book,

7:10

but that's what I want to do. The

7:12

obsession with Elon Musk as a quasi-Nazi

7:16

hate figure is so stupid,

7:19

as is holding him up as

7:21

a free speech champion. I don't think he's a

7:23

free speech champion. He's just Elon Musk. He's a

7:26

weird fucking dude. And he's erratic about

7:28

a lot of different things. And also amazing

7:30

in a lot of important ways. And he

7:32

fucking puts the biggest rocket into

7:34

space ever last week. That's awesome.

7:37

And Tesla. I

7:39

mean, whatever. I don't like do that stuff. He

7:42

asked him the Tesla Roadster in

7:44

a very weird digression. Yeah. But he

7:46

also did ask him things that were

7:50

really uncool. Edward

7:53

Snowden, actually,

7:56

from what I saw of the interview, Edward

7:58

Snowden really encapsulated what I was doing. I

8:00

thought about it. It was actually a really good tweet thread from Edward

8:02

Snowden. He said, look, I've been

8:04

in the controversial interview seat, what Don

8:06

Lemon came after Elon Musk with felt

8:08

like malice. Elon, in clear

8:10

discomfort, opens up in good faith about his

8:12

intensely private struggles. And that's the thing that

8:14

when they're talking about ketamine, I think. Lemon

8:17

picks precisely that moment to begin emptying

8:20

an entire drawer of knives. That's

8:22

a dick move, sure, but it's Lemon's right. It

8:25

comes with the territory of being a partisan football

8:27

and Musk should have expected it. The real loss

8:29

is that it's a huge waste of an interview

8:31

because Lemon exudes zero curiosity or

8:33

interest in anything beyond posturing. Exactly right

8:35

from what I saw. And

8:37

it was, there's a funny bit where Elon

8:40

says, you want censorship

8:42

so bad, you can taste it. Or

8:44

I can taste something like that. But he, Don

8:47

Lemon is unprepared for somebody who

8:49

is very calm, doesn't

8:52

really need this interview. You

8:55

get people there like where their political lives are, they're

8:57

online, their businesses are online. He's just a billionaire, he's

8:59

the richest man, second richest man in the world, depending

9:01

on the day. And he just doesn't

9:03

give a fuck. And so when he comes

9:06

after him with the DEI stuff, which is one of

9:08

my favorite things, when he says, he

9:11

just make a very simple point. He's like, I just don't think that

9:13

you should hire somebody and lower it

9:15

or change the qualifications based on race. And

9:18

Don Lemon is like, why do you hate black

9:20

people? It's very, very astonishing

9:22

moment to watch if somebody kind

9:25

of collapsed like Lemon does. It's

9:28

just the way he handles that

9:30

particular section is like, oh,

9:32

you came in here with this idea that if

9:34

you believe these things, you are probably a racist.

9:37

And when it goes beyond that, you have nothing to

9:39

say. And then when he says the

9:41

posturing, that was the thing if you are

9:44

a subscriber to this podcast and listen to the one

9:46

that we released today. I

9:48

mentioned in that that

9:50

Tucker Carlson said the right thing and

9:54

it doesn't apply to him. He

9:56

mistakenly got something right talking about the Putin interview, as

9:59

he said like, you know. All these interviews come and

10:01

it's all about them. That is true. Unfortunately

10:03

Tucker did a very, very bad interview

10:06

that I think is worthless in almost every way. And I

10:08

think he's a fool. And I think the

10:10

whole thing was foolish. But that thing that he did describe does

10:12

happen. And that's what you saw with Don Lemon. You

10:15

saw him basically going through the

10:17

posturing, like, well, you couldn't actually, and it was,

10:19

none of it was about enlightening. It

10:21

was about trying to get the moments

10:23

for the clips. I mean,

10:25

you live on CNN for

10:28

many years and you live on Mediaite

10:30

as like, that's the tribune

10:32

for people like him. A clip

10:34

of him like destroying somebody or getting in

10:36

some, some fisticuffs with somebody. And none of

10:38

it, he just got, he kind of got

10:40

pummeled by Musk in a way

10:42

that wasn't really a pummeling. It was just a

10:44

calm response of like, no, I never said that.

10:46

Like, what are you talking about? And they're all

10:49

very basic points. But I think what I saw,

10:51

I didn't see the whole thing, but

10:53

I thought Musk handled it pretty well. And I'm not somebody who's a

10:55

fan of his. Generally not a fan of

10:57

his. I think he's like, Matt Taibbi

11:01

said the other day that he was full

11:03

of shit on free speech. And

11:05

I think there's something to that. But in this

11:08

interview, I was like on

11:10

his side and I wanted to be on Don

11:12

Lemon's side just to be the heterodox. Ism? The

11:17

heterodox. Hamazaba. Doing

11:20

a great job. Camille, what did

11:22

you like about the interview? Well, the moment

11:24

that stood out to me was when they

11:26

were talking about free speech. And at some

11:28

point, Elon says, when we take content down,

11:30

we will take down things that are illegal.

11:32

What is a child pornography thing? If it's

11:34

legal, then we leave it there. And he

11:36

said, well, what about all of these racist

11:38

memes? Well, is it illegal? He

11:41

says, no, but it's bad. And

11:43

it's been up there for a long time. And all

11:45

of the Christ Church shooter and various other shooters, they

11:47

were radicalized by social media. So don't you feel an

11:49

obligation to take it down? And

11:52

this is when he starts to talk about how much you

11:54

love censorship. But at some point he says, but

11:58

there's child porn on there. Isn't

12:00

that a form of moderation and censorship? And

12:02

he said, that's fun. He said, that's illegal.

12:05

That's illegal. I

12:07

just said that if it's

12:09

illegal, it has to come down.

12:11

But I don't understand. And he

12:13

was completely mystified by this distinction

12:15

between legal and illegal. I mean,

12:17

that mystification is underlined to a

12:19

lot of the kind of confusion

12:21

and people talking past each other

12:24

in journalistic debates right

12:26

now and political debates too, right?

12:28

Like literally at the Supreme Court even

12:31

today when they were talking about

12:33

Murthy versus Missouri. And

12:35

I was doing my lunchtime watching CNN

12:37

for five minutes and watching the way

12:39

they were describing this case. And

12:42

to remind everyone, this is the case that

12:45

the states brought against the Biden

12:47

administration for being acting

12:49

in a censorious way, especially

12:52

on like Facebook and social media

12:54

companies having to do mostly with

12:56

COVID alleged misinformation, but sometimes

12:58

also with things having to do with like

13:00

the election and like if you're an election

13:02

denier or whatever. And

13:05

which they absolutely did. I

13:07

mean, they brow beat

13:09

social media companies to

13:12

not just like police their own courts

13:15

in a way or their own users, but

13:17

also they said, these are the 12 people

13:19

you need to do, like do

13:22

better with like kicking off your platforms. The

13:24

dirty dozen, they literally called them at some

13:26

point. So this came up

13:29

on the Supreme Court just today and

13:31

seeing people talk about it just as

13:35

when the lower court came up with

13:37

a pretty strong injunction against the Biden

13:39

White House about it, there

13:42

is a bafflement actually from the

13:44

journalistic side. Like the White

13:46

House is just trying to prevent

13:48

the spread of misinformation and

13:51

these courts are like handcuffing them.

13:54

I don't even like get what I don't

13:56

get it. And the other side is trying

13:58

to make the point of. that's

14:00

the government pressuring private

14:03

actors to censor people.

14:05

Yeah, but we like this particular government.

14:07

And also they're doing it for the

14:09

right reasons. It's, uh, but

14:12

that's such a fundamental departure from

14:15

the conceptions of free speech that

14:17

you would see within the journalism

14:19

industry when I was young, which

14:21

I guess was a long time ago. Maybe that's

14:23

the problem here. Um, like,

14:26

it would be inconceivable, and

14:28

yet now it's kind of a minority

14:30

position when you look at it. And then

14:33

interestingly in the Supreme Court, which has otherwise

14:35

been super strong in

14:37

favor of the First Amendment

14:39

and expanding and butt-tressing its

14:43

strength over the last 20 years, 15,

14:45

20 years you would say, um, I'm

14:47

not sure. I mean, reading the

14:49

coverage of this from

14:52

Jacob Solomon, other people, uh,

14:54

Ilya Shapiro, who I think wrote an abacus

14:56

brief for the Manhattan Institute by

14:58

it, kind of seems like the Supreme Court's

15:00

a little bit skeptical of

15:03

the Fifth Circuit, I think it is, uh,

15:05

injunction against the White House and they're look-

15:07

and they're not going to, um, spread it.

15:09

It's a complicated case because it all lies

15:12

on the question of are

15:15

they really threatening you or are they just

15:17

like breathing really hard while they're

15:20

suggesting that maybe you should look out

15:22

at what your users are saying. But

15:24

the reaction to it and the climate from which a

15:26

lot of this sprang, um, stems

15:29

from that sort of journalistic idea that there

15:31

is a truth and that since

15:33

there's bad people doing the mistruths, we got to do

15:35

something about that. Yes, 100%. And that's what you see

15:37

in this interview and you see the hangover for the

15:39

amount of time that he was at CNN. And

15:42

the CNN, that really kicks off in 2015-16 and the Trump stuff

15:45

and they're like, this is a funny joke and

15:47

you see that with Morning Joe. They have Mon

15:49

all the time and then they're like, oh God,

15:51

we created this joke. It's part of this sort

15:53

of self-flagellation too that we are responsible assigning themselves

15:56

far more responsibility because it actually

15:58

makes them feel good. like

16:01

potent and you know the people that vote for

16:03

Donald Trump that I met in the middle of

16:05

the country have never ever turned on MSNBC and

16:08

wouldn't ever turn on MSNBC and it wasn't them

16:10

and CNN But you know you have

16:12

this thing where he's like, you know, but you have to do

16:14

something about this There's things that aren't true and he's

16:17

the type of guy who seems quite dim

16:19

actually in that interview But he

16:21

seems a little too dim to understand that

16:23

there is not a Binary of

16:25

things that everyone knows are true and everyone

16:27

knows aren't true and the nuances of

16:29

some of those things too when it comes to like vaccine

16:32

misinformation, which was the stuff that

16:35

or I should say COVID misinformation Which

16:38

was the stuff that people after the Donald Trump stuff.

16:40

That's what they were really running with, right? So it's

16:43

2021, you know Joe Biden's president now and

16:45

then it's like, okay This is the

16:47

next thing we have to attack because Donald Trump's no longer in

16:50

office We're gonna ignore him for a little bit as a short

16:52

period of time. We did ignore him and

16:54

that was fun and then

16:56

you have this thing about vaccine

16:58

hesitancy of it was was it

17:00

was it a Wuhan

17:04

lab thing was it a wet market? Was

17:06

it a bat? Was it a dingo? And

17:09

you couldn't ask those questions, etc But there was the presumption

17:12

in all that time and it's not even to get into

17:14

what was right and what was wrong But there was a

17:16

perception at the time that there were things that were right

17:18

and there were wrong despite the fact that right very early

17:20

In a disease that nobody had this is

17:22

brand new and everyone knew the answers to

17:25

this at in This is the kind of

17:27

attitude you see him bring to mosque and

17:29

say well, these things are influencing people Because

17:32

there were no school shootings. There were no there

17:34

were no neo-nazis There was

17:36

no racism before social media and he's

17:38

like with social media is the thing that's but

17:41

you know look one of the

17:43

things that the sections that I saw that really

17:46

Bothered me and the reason it

17:48

bothered me is because I do this for a living and

17:50

I interview people for a living

17:52

and I'm doing this on Wednesday and The

17:55

way I'm going about this to people that I'm

17:57

sitting down with and I have to it's a

17:59

little harder two people and how you

18:01

think they're gonna react to certain things and what's gonna bring

18:03

them out and what's gonna pull them out of it in

18:05

knowing what they believe about certain issues, right? And putting

18:08

them against each other, not for good

18:10

clips, but just to get a good conversation going.

18:12

And so you're just kind of looking at it

18:14

that way. And then you see, when you see

18:16

people doing bad interviews, it's not that

18:18

they're kind of ambling blindly, aimlessly

18:22

through an interview. I always know what they're trying to

18:24

do, right? Cause it's a very easy thing to think

18:26

if you've done this one time, it's not like some

18:28

super power, everybody who's ever interviewed somebody knows this. There's

18:31

a point at which he starts talking to him about

18:33

ketamine. And-

18:35

You aren't talking to- To Don Lemon.

18:38

And Don Lemon- Well, Don asked him about that. Asked

18:40

him about it. And he said something about like, do

18:42

you have a prescription? And he said, he

18:46

says kind of private to ask somebody about their medical

18:49

prescriptions they take. And then

18:51

he pauses and then he says, all right, well, I'm gonna

18:53

answer this anyway. And Don

18:55

Lemon responds in a series of really

18:59

awful and

19:01

uncomfortable ways. But you see that he's

19:03

trying to be Barbara Walters. He's

19:05

trying to say, so what is that like? But

19:07

he's doing it in the most intrusive,

19:10

awful way, which- I'm gonna get a gotcha out of

19:12

this rather than I'm gonna draw you out. But it's

19:14

gonna draw you up, I'm gonna get the emo part,

19:16

but then you see the CNN thing that's part of

19:18

his brain. It's been kind of poisoned

19:20

by being at that network for so long. And then

19:22

he tries to take the knife out

19:25

and he says, well, is that good for your investors? Like

19:28

you're on drugs. It's like, no, no. Really?

19:30

Yeah. And I will say

19:32

this is that ketamine is

19:37

very promising when it comes to the treatment

19:40

of depression. It's a gateway

19:42

drug to happiness. And

19:44

that's what Elon Musk who's, I

19:47

answered was very, he

19:49

didn't wanna be forthcoming. He was forthcoming. And it

19:51

was actually a pretty interesting answer. But there's a

19:54

doctor at Yale who is like one of the

19:56

big guys in the ketamine kind of

19:58

at Yale Medical School. and it

20:00

doesn't sort of the aerosolization

20:03

of ketamine in an inhaler, but

20:06

I think Eli Lilly, or one of these big pharma

20:08

companies I've done, because it's been really effective. And

20:10

it's especially effective for people who have extreme

20:15

depression in like, you might

20:17

kill yourself the next day. You get into

20:19

that point. If you get ketamine drips, all

20:21

the data suggests that it pulls you out

20:24

of it pretty quickly. And it takes

20:26

about three months, you have to re-up it. I've

20:29

been very interested in it myself. You

20:31

can get it off-label treatment

20:33

in New York City at a number of places.

20:35

They advertise very publicly. There's doctors that do it.

20:38

And to conflate this, like he's on

20:41

drugs, and aren't

20:43

you gonna tank your company? What do your

20:46

investors think? Like, you smoked a joint with

20:49

Joe Rogan, and he said, I had one puff. It

20:53

was a play acting, we had one puff, whatever. It's

20:55

like, I'm not on drugs. And this

20:57

whole thing is like, it's a mixture of that. I'm trying

20:59

to be Barbara Walters. And it's

21:01

not like, well, what are you depressed about? Let's

21:03

talk about that. It was a point

21:05

where he became the cable news guy again in

21:08

trying to get that little clip where he

21:10

was like, aren't you gonna destroy your company

21:12

by taking a drug that you take for

21:14

depression? It's just a cheap trick. I mean,

21:17

not that however Elon Musk or anyone

21:19

else runs their company is by definition

21:22

the greatest way. And that their

21:24

consideration of investors is

21:27

the greatest way to consider investors. I'm just kind

21:29

of guessing that Don Lemons, understanding

21:32

of the role between a CEO

21:35

and the investors of a company might

21:37

be, in this case, a little bit

21:39

less than Elon Musk's. It's a weird,

21:42

like, I finally caught you. You've

21:44

never thought about this until I just brought

21:47

it up. Like, if you

21:49

are in any kind of publicly traded company,

21:51

you are constantly thinking about these

21:54

fucking SEC requirements and

21:56

all of the things that you're presenting to

21:58

investors. It is an obsession. with

22:00

yours, it's a very weird

22:02

thing to come off like that. There's a,

22:04

in some of the poll, kind

22:07

of poll quotes, poll sections of the

22:09

interview that Washington Post had

22:12

the five takeaways from Don

22:14

Lemon's piece of garbage interview. One

22:17

of them was, there's

22:19

Musk depressive episodes, but the

22:22

first one, of course, is Musk

22:24

resists responsibility for hate

22:27

speech on X. Yeah. He

22:30

resisted taking responsibility, and

22:32

he's like, there's like five billion posts a

22:34

day. Yeah. And he has a conversation

22:36

about it, like it depends on, you know, if

22:39

a tree falls in the forest stuff. I think I was playing that

22:41

when you were, right? Yeah. Like somebody tweets

22:43

something and no one means it. Yeah, that's

22:45

like, it's hard to police all that stuff.

22:47

There's never any sympathy because it has the

22:49

wrong politics. And they don't like what

22:51

he's done with it, so they all went to threads. Yeah,

22:55

with the great Mark Zuckerberg

22:57

company is better. But

23:00

it's like this constant thing,

23:02

like you have to be responsible

23:04

for everything that's set on this platform, which

23:07

I think had this platform existed in 1996, 97,

23:09

98, I

23:12

mean, you and I were in the early stages of the internet, we

23:15

would ever be praising it and saying, it's incredible,

23:17

like you can get your ideas out. Everybody

23:19

has a Gutenberg press, do you remember that with

23:21

blogs? Like it's incredible. It was a democratization. Now

23:23

it's like, this is bad. I mean, even Elon's

23:27

explanation of how Community Notes works, which

23:29

is hardly perfect by any stretch of

23:31

the imagination. Pretty good. But when he

23:34

explains that the difference between

23:36

a traditional news network

23:38

like CNN, like running a

23:41

story that turns out to be fucking false

23:43

and wrong, they don't say

23:45

anything about it for a day or so, maybe there's

23:47

a correction, but almost no one hears about the correction.

23:49

And Elon, as he explains with

23:52

Community Notes, if you've interacted

23:54

with a post, and then a

23:56

day later, a Community Note shows up, you're supposed to

23:58

get a notification about it. it in

24:01

the system. It's kind of a big deal. And

24:03

as the post continues to exist, the community note

24:05

is right there attached to it, and you have

24:07

an opportunity to see it. And the way that

24:10

the algorithm works, and I haven't seen

24:12

it, so I don't know, but the explanation, and

24:14

as I understand it, is in

24:16

order for the note to be officially

24:19

attached to a tweet, the

24:21

reviewers, the people who are in the pool

24:24

of community notes reviewers, like you

24:26

actually need to get people who

24:28

would generally disagree to agree that,

24:30

oh, this post is legitimate. It

24:34

has sufficient context for it

24:36

to get through. I mean, that's

24:38

kind of a big deal. It's pretty great. Not

24:40

a bad innovation at all. And also, Elon Musk

24:42

has been on the wrong side of community notes.

24:45

He sure may, Elon. As

24:47

he pointed out. At the end of this interview, I'll

24:49

make some claims, you'll make some claims, and what

24:51

will end up happening is people will comment, and

24:54

on community notes, they'll give you some indication of

24:56

whether or not it's right. And

24:58

they should all publish a cult book

25:01

because getting things. Well, it depends. It

25:03

means that you're a monster. Yeah.

25:08

I do think that I didn't see the

25:10

whole interview. Lemon's questions and his

25:12

bafflement at the conversation about free speech is what

25:14

people should pay attention to. They want to just

25:16

because I think it does show what happens. So

25:19

you're suggesting people should watch this. Yeah, for sure.

25:22

Is that okay? Can we do that? I think we can still

25:24

do that. I didn't like it. I didn't like it,

25:26

but I think you should watch it. Where?

25:29

This is a shocking gossip. Wait, who do

25:31

I call about what is the appropriate amount

25:33

of dislike of this interview? I thought that

25:35

they have the electrodes attached to you. We'll

25:38

find out if this is okay. Yeah. We'll

25:41

see. We'll see what happens. We'll see if

25:43

all the good people tell us that we're

25:45

bad. But

25:47

there was a bit, I saw that when he said

25:49

some typically musk stupid

25:51

things. And countering

25:55

stupidity with stupidity when Don Lemon

25:58

says, you know, you should become like a... this

26:00

hive of right-wing conspiracy theory,

26:02

because without

26:05

X, God knows when it just would stop. People

26:07

would just go walk outside and breathe and be like,

26:09

that was a stupid idea. But

26:12

he said, and Musk responds by saying,

26:14

well before it was just the domain

26:17

of only the far left. And it's like, that's not

26:19

true at all. Were you on it before? That's not

26:21

true at all. That's total bullshit. So he does that

26:23

too. So not just Don Lemon, but Don Lemon's job

26:25

is to be an interviewer. Elon Musk

26:27

is to be a slightly weird,

26:29

autistic. Slightly. Yeah,

26:31

slightly. Also

26:34

brilliant business owner. Super accomplished. He

26:36

is the one who should not ask questions, know how to

26:38

handle an interview, and be prepared for it. He might be

26:40

the best entrepreneur

26:42

of our time. I think

26:44

I don't know the- Very arguably. Who

26:47

else is in the conversation? Jeff

26:49

Bezos and Amazon. Yeah. Yeah,

26:51

and I- And one trick pony. I'm

26:53

just kidding. Elon is running multiple companies.

26:56

No, I mean the extraordinary things that-

26:58

Kyle Dunnegan, we should just drop the

27:00

Kyle Dunnegan rap. Oh

27:02

yeah. That's why I'm good. Yeah, that's

27:05

very cool. So I will always give

27:07

him a tremendous amount of grace because

27:09

I'm grateful for my Model

27:11

S, and I'm also grateful for

27:13

the SpaceX situation, and hope to

27:16

run on a rocket ship. And

27:18

then the forthcoming Roadster is going

27:20

to be $200,000. So

27:22

it's a bit out of my reach. Apparently, Jetsons life.

27:24

I mean apparently, that part of the interview

27:26

was interesting to me. I'm glad that Don

27:28

Lemon kept asking questions about that. But wait,

27:30

does it have wings? Yeah. It

27:32

sounds like a Jetsons. And he was like,

27:34

maybe. It was hilarious. I'm gonna literally just,

27:36

does it fly? And he's like, I don't

27:39

know, we'll see. Okay, cool. I

27:41

mean, I'm excited. Yeah, I am too, but I

27:43

can't afford it, but I'm excited. I'm bouncing in

27:45

my chair right now. Yeah, I get it. What's

27:47

the over-under of Camille being in

27:49

the first 500 people to get that car?

27:52

Sue at 200K? Me,

27:54

my wife is not gonna make that. I

27:56

think I've got a better shot at getting

27:59

the Cybertruck. Yeah. than the Roadster. Rusty

28:01

and... Who knows? It probably won't be available

28:03

for another two years. At that time, maybe

28:05

it'll be fine. I can't, no, no, I

28:07

mean, I would love that. I would feel

28:09

bad, like test driving, and I can't afford

28:12

half of my life. I used to

28:14

have a job where they didn't make me work and paid me a

28:16

ton of money. And that's just

28:18

what happened. Now, like, my daughter is

28:20

like really desperate to, this

28:23

is, it's great when you have like a girl that grows up in

28:25

New York, but she is a mass hole

28:27

in her bones, and she knows

28:29

that the Bruins are playing the

28:31

Rangers in Boston on Thursday, and she's

28:33

on spring break, and she's like, Poppy,

28:36

did you get tickets yet? And she texted me this morning. I

28:38

was working, and she was like, did you get tickets for the Ranger

28:40

game yet? And I'm like, it's the

28:43

Rangers. I looked, the tickets are like $500 a

28:45

piece. And I,

28:47

no, I, wait, are they two good tickets,

28:50

R-Phonedo, or just tickets? Well, you can get tickets, I'm

28:52

not gonna put my daughter up in the nosebleeds.

28:54

Yeah, you're pretty good. Particularly in Boston, this is

28:57

like, people are like, fuck you! It's

28:59

not good for us. So

29:01

if you have any listeners that have Bruins season

29:03

tickets, huh, shoot me a line, I'll pay

29:06

for it, I'll pay it. I'll pay a

29:08

face value. He had a Vision Pro. What,

29:10

I mean, you can like sit on the, whatever

29:13

it is, line, I don't know. Have you sat

29:15

on Steph Curry's lap like you always wanted to?

29:17

Yeah, I've never wanted to do that. Yes, he

29:19

really. That is wrong. That is not true. I'm

29:21

not even a Steph Curry fan. I'm

29:23

not really, I think he ruined the game of beauty.

29:25

I'm trying to get your homophobia to come out. I

29:28

do not have any homophobia anymore.

29:31

Anymore. Jamaican. But

29:33

that part of me is dead

29:35

now. I love this. But

29:38

if you are Jamaican, you have to

29:40

say any more. That is not believable

29:42

on the right side. I know. I've

29:45

been candid about my journey on

29:47

this podcast. Have you heard that? Did you

29:49

make a national anthem? Push

29:52

them up, you boy, you be see me! Because

29:55

we know he can't swim, Jamaican! do

30:00

it we can do it Jamaica I

30:04

mean the Bob sled but swimming no it's not man in

30:06

Japan like all right fine whatever

30:19

you say an Aman about it why

30:21

no man not I did I want

30:24

to do anything in which

30:28

we replaced Don Lemon in that interview

30:30

like a very grumpy Jamaican man

30:36

which terms that are

30:40

really offensive in other cultures and what you

30:42

don't mean anything to you it doesn't feel

30:44

wrong at all and there's I remember there's

30:46

a word about the boy shouldn't be offensive

30:48

but he is a great old description

30:51

of the situation yeah I can you translate my

30:53

teeth yeah but um but yeah

30:58

boy yeah yes it would be what

31:00

the British would call bum boy if

31:03

it's yeah in England oh

31:05

that was a yeah yeah not anymore not

31:07

anymore it's a different country now yeah

31:13

you prefer the old ways you guys

31:15

colonialism they love the terminology now

31:21

there's a word in the Swedish that I said one

31:23

time and we have a

31:25

lot of sweetness news and

31:29

I said it's just like in the

31:31

kind of conversation like knowing that it was

31:33

offensive and people just look at me like

31:35

what the fuck did you say and I

31:37

was like oh really is that bad make

31:39

air bowling no no no that's the thing

31:42

no great when

31:44

you say it I want to make sure that the

31:46

you know that the it's

31:52

you know that compound word there

31:54

the first word that's nigga is

31:57

is is Negro

31:59

that's what it is actually means. It's not that

32:01

hard. Or is this

32:03

supposed to be better? Well, no,

32:05

but they still changed it because

32:07

it was a small chocolate

32:10

ball with coconut flakes

32:12

on it and it was literally

32:14

called Negro balls. I

32:17

swear to God, they still called it that. I'm not joking.

32:19

When I moved to Sweden, they still called it that. I

32:21

think it was Stuerkat

32:24

on this. People in Stockholm would know that

32:26

place. Like an old kind of bakery with

32:28

a conditore where you get coffee and stuff.

32:30

And they had it and I was like, arched an

32:32

eyebrow and I was like, is that? And they're like,

32:34

yeah. But then they changed it. They just

32:37

called them chocolat balls. These chocolate balls now.

32:40

So is there a relationship

32:42

between this delicacy and

32:45

Chef on South Park with the whole chocolate

32:47

salty balls thing? I wonder. I wonder. It's

32:49

very similar. Yeah, it's very similar. But that's

32:51

literally what... It would be shocking to discover

32:54

that today. I can still

32:56

remember the first time I heard Isaac Hayes sing.

32:58

Oh, yeah. Stuck on my chocolate salty balls. That's

33:00

right. Put them in your mouth. Yeah. That's

33:03

amazing. I wanted to do... We

33:05

lived in a very different time. That

33:08

was cute. We absolutely did. One of the

33:11

things I used... When I went to Sweden

33:13

initially, I wanted to

33:15

make a coffee table book of everything in

33:17

the country that was racist, but nobody really understood.

33:21

And I think they figured it out later. Because they

33:23

were literally doing Black Lives Matter, like taking the

33:25

name Swedish Soccer Games. And I was like, guys,

33:27

what are you doing? I

33:30

appreciate that you want to be part of this.

33:32

But now they went way too far. But my

33:34

favorite was there was chocolate

33:37

covered puffed rice called

33:40

Shinapufa, Chinese puffs. And

33:42

the picture on it was a guy in literally

33:45

a swooping hat. Oh, no. With

33:47

his... Like the eyes. It was just like... He

33:49

was actually pulling his eyes. Yeah. Oh,

33:52

the packaging. And like,

33:54

this is pre what people

33:56

call woke, unfortunately, but pre this time by

33:58

a lot. And it's me and

34:01

I was like, dude, you guys gotta fucking change this

34:03

stuff. This is bad, like

34:05

what are you doing? And then all the

34:07

Turkish Delight stuff is also just like people

34:09

on magic carpets. I'm like, God, you guys

34:12

don't see anyone up here. And now

34:14

they want to make a vision. You're all wearing face paint. This

34:16

is the best part. We ever bring back to you, I

34:19

bought a thing for you in Joanna back

34:21

in those days that

34:23

was a French, old-timey, some

34:26

kind of lemon or fruit squeezer that

34:29

was just incredibly, explicitly racist.

34:31

Yes. Yeah, you did

34:33

have that. Yes, that's right. And I just wanted

34:35

to share this to you and you can't see

34:38

this because we're on a video podcast. Yes. That

34:41

headline in Sankar Gondar literally

34:43

means that. Oh no. But

34:46

that headline. The package is very happy.

34:48

The package is yellow. The headline says

34:50

that is the end, it's the end

34:52

of that logo image on CinePuffer. They

34:54

stopped it. CinePuffer and the gun. Yeah,

34:56

and that is from. A happy little.

34:59

Definitely, definitely happy. And

35:01

yeah, end of the picture

35:03

and that was in 2011. So

35:06

I guess they caught up. So

35:08

CinePuffer is now still

35:10

called Chinese Puffs but it just has a hat

35:12

on it. Literally just a hat now.

35:14

Just nobody in the hat. So

35:17

there you go. It's just a hat. That's

35:20

funny. I mean, is that better? Maybe

35:22

a little. Maybe, maybe a little. I don't know

35:25

if the first one's that bad anyway. But I

35:27

remember that when I saw in Mexico, the

35:30

first time I was in Mexico, the

35:32

number of times I saw logos of

35:35

people sleeping under sombreros. Totally serious. I

35:37

have photos of it. And I was like, wait,

35:39

this is in Mexico. This shit is racist. I'm like,

35:41

oh no, this is Mexico. You guys can, this is,

35:43

you're talking about yourself. So that's fun. Are they selling

35:45

it back to gringos? It's like a. No, this is

35:47

not a place where you sell anything except for cocaine

35:49

back to gringos. That

35:52

kind of neighborhood. That kind of

35:54

neighborhood. What did I talk about? Did

35:56

you know that Master P makes a whole line

35:58

of boots? And there's

36:01

a bunch of like snoop related Snoop

36:06

snoop mama oatmeal or something like that.

36:08

It's like a whole replacement of the

36:11

no Yeah, is it is

36:13

it no limit foods or something? I

36:15

don't exactly know probably something like that He was

36:18

on the professional path, but you could find it.

36:20

He would find played in the preseason. Yeah Charlotte

36:25

Hornets, I think I

36:27

think it was like a fat point card Yeah,

36:30

he was like a bit. Yeah, Uncle P's

36:32

Louisiana season pancake mix. So

36:34

if you don't have Bruins tickets for

36:36

Thursday Can

36:38

you send me some pancake mix? The greatest

36:40

thing is there's a picture of like older

36:43

master P on glasses. Oh man. Yeah And

36:46

you know, I think he came out with

36:48

that stuff at the time that like on

36:50

Jemima was getting canceled Yeah, his response. Oh

36:53

shit. It is because yeah, it's that and

36:55

the rice. Yeah, so it's the white uncle

37:00

With uncle P and it's fine. Yeah, nah

37:02

nah nah hoodie

37:04

hoops, mmm What

37:08

we put Camille's face Cell

37:11

anything interesting, whatever you write.

37:13

It'd have to be a food product. You sell

37:15

water to a fish. Mm-hmm I

37:17

mean, it doesn't have to be a food product. It's not to

37:19

be a food I

37:21

mean, I know something luxurious. Would you make sneakers

37:24

if you became really like what I make

37:26

me do like would you say like? No,

37:29

but not not like you're Chinese Design

37:36

aspects. Yeah, I would just just make me more

37:38

of those. Yeah. Well, that's what Kanye I just

37:40

want 700 He's not like

37:42

at the drafting which is actually big very

37:44

hard for me. Like when I see the

37:46

correspondence now with What's

37:48

his name? Myla Milo an opla

37:50

like working at easy. Yeah, she makes me

37:53

feel a little weird Milo

37:55

granted all the shoes that I'm buying our

37:57

old shoes granted

38:00

nothing to do with it. Yeah. You

38:02

should be doing some arbitrage if you're not,

38:04

like just stocking up on the shit that

38:06

is really cheap now because Kanye West is

38:09

a super anti-Semite. Wait till the very good

38:11

people. Not

38:14

impacted the price in the market. Wait

38:17

till the very good people on the

38:19

internet and on Twitter and probably on threads find

38:22

out that I did a piece with Milo

38:24

Yiannopoulos. I platformed Milo Yiannopoulos on it. It

38:27

was great. It was one of my favorite pieces that

38:29

I did because he's

38:32

always playing for the camera, obviously, and the whole thing

38:34

was just the ... But when

38:36

you know what he's about to do all

38:38

the time, because that was one of the things

38:40

where you watched ... You interviewed him when he was staying

38:43

in that hotel paid for by the Mercers just

38:45

before that bus stop. I went to

38:47

his house and he paid for it by the

38:49

Mercers. He had bottles of champagne all over the

38:51

place. He was blowing their money. Dude, we went

38:53

to the Trump Doral lunch. Yes,

38:55

I remember. I was

38:57

like, I have to pay for all of my stuff. Then

39:02

the bill ... I was a confession, a journalist, a confession.

39:04

The bill came and I was like, yes,

39:07

all right. I

39:10

cannot disaggregate the 78 drinks that I

39:12

had. Then

39:14

at the end of it, we went out onto the patio

39:17

and did the interview. I

39:21

was very punchy because I'd had a couple drinks and

39:23

I went in really hard on

39:25

them. It

39:28

was hilarious because I'll give

39:30

him credit in one aspect. This

39:32

is the aspect of performance, that

39:34

when you know it's performance, is you go

39:36

in really hard on somebody and just really

39:39

... It did not go well for

39:41

him, I have to say. In every

39:43

interview he did, everything was just a cakewalk

39:45

for him because he would say the same

39:47

thing and the people who were interviewing him

39:49

thought ... This is a big mistake.

39:51

Sorry, I'll be boring about interviews again. This is a

39:53

big mistake interviewers make and this is Don Lemon who

39:55

is doing a version of this, is that

39:58

when you know that your audience ... and

40:00

you yourself think that you are the moral

40:02

superior, that we'll get you through,

40:04

and it won't, right? And you're

40:07

like, I mean, come on, Milo, you said

40:09

this. And everyone asked him, in every

40:11

interview, the exact same thing, they

40:13

referenced the same quotes, and he had a

40:16

response for everyone, and he was so used to it. And

40:19

I asked him something that he had posted

40:21

on his Facebook page six hours before, and

40:24

he was like, I'm sorry, what? And

40:26

I was like, yeah, it

40:28

was something about, he didn't care

40:30

about dead Syrian children. It was really bad. And

40:33

I will give him credit in the sense

40:35

that he crumbled, and then afterwards, this

40:37

is the type of thing where somebody just walks out,

40:40

either throws a drink at you, or just says, fuck you, pack

40:43

your stuff up, whatever, which

40:45

is easier in this case, because you're in public, and they don't have

40:47

to kick you out of their house. But he

40:51

texted me 20 minutes

40:53

later, and he was like, do you wanna go out

40:55

to the Fontainebleau tonight in Miami? And I was like,

40:58

you know, I don't. I actually

41:00

don't wanna do that with you, so I didn't do that,

41:02

but yeah. I

41:05

mean, actually, Matt, there are some deals. I'm about to

41:07

buy a new pair of 700s right now. What

41:10

are you, 700s? I

41:12

mean, there's the ones I'm wearing right now.

41:15

He's just buying, Kanye. I

41:17

love the fact that we did a podcast last

41:19

night, we were just so full of venom, that

41:22

today it was just like, do we, we're

41:24

like just talking about sneakers, and weird

41:26

shit, I mean, we're fine. Everything's

41:29

fine. I mean, that's important. I

41:32

don't know why you're saying this when

41:34

democracy is under way. I have a

41:36

very close friend of mine who, I

41:40

think both of you know, who sent me

41:42

a long email today in that

41:44

kind of vein. Yeah, well, I

41:46

can't know which candidate is support, because

41:50

at this point, both candidates have assured me

41:53

that whoever wins, if it's

41:55

not them, democracy ends. Both

41:58

Donald Trump and, Joe

42:00

Biden have assured me that that's the case. And

42:02

it's funny. You had to like rack your brain for Joe Biden for a

42:04

second. I did. Yeah, yeah. He's

42:06

just like Joe Biden. Everyone does

42:08

it. Everyone loses. Wait, what is his name

42:10

again? Yeah, the guy who... No, he fell

42:13

off the stage before he came in here.

42:17

Walked into the band. Walked

42:19

into the tuba player. You know

42:21

the thing. Come on, man. Uncle

42:23

Pete. Uncle Pete's pancake mix. You

42:25

know, it was

42:27

about that and about Trump and

42:30

democracy and you should

42:32

be and aren't you worried. And

42:34

this is something... Because of the bloodbath. That's why...

42:36

No, no, no, it actually wasn't. No, it was about something else.

42:38

And it was about another mutual friend of ours who I thought

42:40

like, oh, he got a little off the rails. He

42:43

was like, no, I actually agree with him more than you

42:45

would think. And I know what you're saying. And he was

42:47

very nice and said, I know what you're saying. But

42:49

you know, you should realize that this... And he laid out

42:52

this case, which I thought actually was the... I'll send it

42:54

to you guys, but maybe I shouldn't, if you still get

42:56

mad about that. But it was one of the best cases

42:59

that I'm like, oh yeah, I guess I see what he's

43:01

saying. In my... What

43:03

is the... Well, my response to him, which

43:06

I haven't written yet because he sent me a very

43:08

long email and it's

43:10

always been that the

43:12

desire of Donald Trump

43:15

is there. I agree with you. I

43:17

mean, he wants dark desire. The dark

43:19

desire to turn this

43:21

country into something in his totally insane

43:23

vision of what a country like America

43:25

should look like is true. I

43:28

think that that is what people are right about

43:30

that. That's for sure. I mean, he said to

43:32

himself, you can't deny it. I just have always made the

43:34

argument that the institutions

43:36

are more robust than

43:39

people give them credit for. I mean, this is

43:41

a very rough version of it. I've laid

43:43

out the case. Less robust by that. But

43:45

what do you mean by that? Less robust

43:47

by dark desires. Because is it just a

43:49

matter of not having a respect for the

43:51

various restrictions? I'll give you an example. An

43:54

example of this that came

43:57

in Donald Trump's interview on

43:59

Sunday. Yeah on Fox News. Yeah

44:01

hard with Howard Kurtz. It was a very

44:03

strange interview. Very strange. Yeah, but

44:06

Kurtz Who

44:08

pushed back a fair amount like he did a

44:10

decent job. Yeah, there was some points. Yeah, just

44:13

point of me Yeah, but so he

44:15

says Tik Tok. Mm-hmm

44:18

Donald Trump has changed his mind on Tik Tok and

44:21

he says, you know Is this because you have a donor and

44:23

you know, you talked to the guys from the Club for Growth

44:25

and that guy Invest in ByteDance, which

44:28

is the honor of Tik Tok. It's

44:30

a Jeff. Yes in what his response

44:32

was Was very

44:34

telling and I was thinking about it

44:36

only because of the email that my friend sent me and

44:39

he he immediately said he's Like well if

44:42

we're gonna ban that I think before This

44:44

is much worse is we banned Facebook and like

44:46

oh my no, no, no, no, no, no No,

44:48

do the same thing to face. That's not what

44:50

this is about Yeah, reviewing that

44:52

your instincts on this are to get

44:55

rid of a political enemy Yeah, they

44:57

have propaganda on this platform That

45:00

is contrary to what you think a media

45:02

company should be putting out there because it's

45:04

negative towards you And so

45:06

therefore Facebook is actually worse than that front

45:08

It's like no, this is about it being

45:10

a Chinese company in China being

45:12

a dictatorship in them controlling Mark

45:15

Zuckerberg was in California. Yeah, right.

45:17

He's American. What are you

45:19

weird? He's very weird But

45:22

not a chai-kam not a chai-kam

45:24

in the fact that that was

45:26

his response Was I can

45:28

think of other things and Kurtz goes on The

45:31

person doesn't doesn't ask doesn't follow up on this.

45:33

No, he does not it doesn't say wait a

45:35

minute What do you mean do the same? He

45:37

had a half a sentence where

45:40

he was like something about the Chinese government

45:42

but he did ask him when

45:44

you said they should take the licenses

45:46

away from two Broadcast

45:49

organizations that don't have licenses. Yeah,

45:51

which is MSNBC and CNN. Yeah

45:54

He goes off on this like very

45:57

weird, you know digress

46:00

about X, Y, and Z doesn't make

46:02

any sense. But it is true that

46:04

he's like, they should, we should

46:06

shut them down because they're telling us. And

46:09

there's a very famous quote that is not famous at

46:11

all, by the way, I just realized because this shows

46:13

my age. There was a

46:16

woman who was the

46:18

official censor for

46:20

the Santa Nista government in Nicaragua.

46:22

Yes, a famous quote. No, and

46:25

her name I believe was Nelba

46:27

Blandon. I think that was her name. And

46:30

she- She married the very wise, at

46:32

least strange. Yeah. It's a new

46:34

book coming out. And

46:36

Nelba Blandon said, when asked by a

46:39

reporter, why you shut

46:42

down La Prensa, which was the opposition newspaper.

46:45

And Nelba Blandon said, well,

46:47

they were saying that we suppress free

46:50

speech and we couldn't allow them to

46:52

say that. And it's like the most

46:54

perfect quote ever. And it is the

46:56

instinct that you get from Hugo Chavez type people. They

46:59

took away the TV license of RCTV

47:01

in Venezuela because they, well, we didn't,

47:03

and literally people on the far left

47:06

who defended Chavez said he didn't shut

47:08

them down. They just didn't get a

47:10

new license. And that's the instinct that

47:12

he has, which is amazingly dangerous. This

47:15

is the shit that makes me so upset about

47:18

the ridiculous bloodbath,

47:21

freak out. There

47:24

are so many things that Donald Trump

47:26

actually says, even when he

47:28

says them in ways that are barely

47:31

articulate, that he actually

47:33

says and believes that are worth highlighting

47:36

and deconstructing and

47:38

freaking the fuck out about. When

47:41

he says something that you probably shouldn't freak

47:43

out about, he just uses a particular word

47:46

in context appropriately.

47:49

And you pretend, masquerade

47:52

as though he is actually suggesting

47:54

that there will be widespread political

47:56

violence and murder if

47:59

he's not elected president. And maybe he'll suggest

48:01

that next week, but he

48:03

didn't do it in that particular

48:05

speech. And they're actually tripling down a lot.

48:07

They're literally tripling down a crazy- Normalizing

48:10

from the Brookings Institute. There are two

48:12

things that we're seeing, right? One

48:14

group of people who say, well, look, we shouldn't give

48:16

him the benefit of the doubt. It's at least plausible.

48:18

It's possible, anyways, that he could have meant it in

48:20

the most nefarious way possible. And then

48:23

there are the other people who are like, no, no, he definitely means it. And

48:25

the evidence to support that is, did you see January

48:28

6th? Yeah, but that's- Yes. And

48:31

that is also, it's exactly what

48:33

you're saying. I mean, because it's like,

48:35

yes, he does other things that are

48:37

terrible. Focus on those. And

48:39

stop. And I read on the

48:42

paying, wethefifth.subspect.com episode that we released

48:44

today, I read Jonah Goldberg's tweet

48:47

when he's like, you're really undermining

48:49

the case of people like Jonah

48:51

who really loathed Donald Trump and

48:53

worked very hard to, you know, rest the

48:56

Republican Party from his greasy hands. And

48:59

he says, you know, look, people start not

49:01

believing anything that you say. And it's a very similar

49:03

thing with the COVID stuff. It's like, don't wear a

49:05

mask, wear a mask, we're just trying to, you know,

49:08

it's like, people are going to stop believing you. And you see that,

49:10

I saw a poll the other day about, you

49:12

know, trust in the medical establishment of being

49:14

at an all time low. And

49:16

it's no wonder why. Makes sense. And it's like

49:18

the media saying these things, well, yeah,

49:20

I mean, he didn't, maybe didn't say it directly, but

49:23

we know what he means. It's like, well, I don't

49:25

know what he means because he

49:27

didn't say that. I'm not, I

49:29

can't define what Donald Trump means

49:31

when he talks about cars, Chinese

49:33

cars getting 100% tariffs on them.

49:36

He probably said 75,000 things

49:38

that were dumber, crazier, and more

49:41

offensive to the idea of American

49:43

democracy in that speech. But

49:45

instead, bloodbath is a

49:48

great poll quote, isn't it? That's the

49:50

easy to go with that one. I

49:52

mean, everyone's hunting adjectives and policing adjectives.

49:54

They'll police it if you don't respond

49:57

to something with a pro. level

50:00

of if you don't like call out a lie

50:02

and say that's a lie you mean you mean

50:05

you're saying that some people some person sets

50:07

a level of disagreement with something and

50:10

if you don't meet that they get

50:12

mad at you if you're insufficiently denunciatory

50:14

yeah yeah yeah it's a real goddamn

50:17

problem for certain people who

50:19

have like smaller and smaller audiences it's very

50:21

strange it's hard to figure that out did

50:23

you see Jen Psaki talking about the the

50:25

bloodbath yeah I did yeah yeah well she

50:27

heard she says well yeah I mean the

50:29

Trump campaign is saying you have to look at

50:31

the full context he was talking about auto the auto industry but

50:34

no let's look at the real yeah yeah

50:36

yeah yeah in the real full context in 1962 wow

50:38

I mean you could go back to like the the

50:44

Mesozoic age that's the real

50:46

full context the formation of

50:49

the earth yeah during this

50:51

period the universe is development

50:53

I mean I want

50:55

people to work back from

50:59

people who are like legitimately and

51:01

I and I think legitimately not

51:04

just like from their own point of view but like

51:06

I agree with them like worried

51:09

about the prospect of another

51:11

Trump presidency and what it would

51:14

do to the liberal institutions of America I

51:16

think it would be bad it'd be deleterious

51:18

it would like extend this long bad era

51:20

right so what I want those people to

51:22

do is to act as if they were

51:24

fucking serious about it and if you were

51:26

fucking serious about it you wouldn't police

51:30

adjectives you'd work backwards from power

51:32

right so like take the media

51:34

for example for example right he

51:37

has said several times over the years

51:39

including when he was first running for

51:41

president Oh Saturday Night

51:44

Live did this joke about about me

51:46

that's terrible they should have their we

51:48

should do a fairness doctrine like have

51:50

their like license revoked and stuff and

51:52

it was like are you fucking

51:55

kidding me what are you doing but we knew

51:57

back then in 2016 and even in

52:01

late Trump presidency, you're not gonna be able

52:03

to get away with that because the people

52:05

that you appointed, I mean, Ajit Pai worked

52:07

for Donald Trump. Correct. That wasn't

52:09

gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. Under him. Yeah.

52:12

Which he made clear to him, and he also made clear

52:14

on this podcast in different ways, and

52:17

other people did as well. Well, who works

52:19

for Donald Trump next time around? And also,

52:21

what has been late- By

52:23

the way, it was, sorry to interrupt, but that

52:25

was in the email that I got. Yeah. A

52:28

very funny bit. Think of the next

52:31

people who are going to

52:33

be staffing the administration. That's a super important point.

52:35

That's something that I have to contend with. I

52:37

think that's a really important point. And also, it's

52:39

important to contend with what has Joe

52:42

Biden done with personalized

52:44

executive power and

52:47

antitrust, right? Donald Trump

52:49

wants to, and did actually in his

52:52

presidency, beef up antitrust

52:54

to go after the people he doesn't like. Correct.

52:58

He doesn't like them personally, necessarily.

53:00

He just like, do we really

53:02

need Nippon Steel and US Steel

53:04

to merge? Yeah. At some

53:06

point, there is a little bit of a what's the

53:09

fucking difference? There is a difference. If you're using it

53:11

as your personal weapon or

53:13

retribution for someone who insulted you,

53:15

I think that is a material

53:17

difference than if you just have

53:19

a super bad protectionist,

53:21

mercantilist policy idea. But

53:24

both are bad. Both are bad. You are giving

53:27

that person of that seat power

53:29

and legitimacy for the next person.

53:31

You are handing the baton to

53:33

the next person and the baton

53:35

is bigger. It can beat

53:37

more ass, right? And there has never

53:39

been throughout the entire Trump era. Never,

53:42

never, not even once. People

53:44

looking at it and saying, hmm, it's

53:47

really bad when a bad person has all that

53:49

power. Maybe we should

53:51

start thinking about not having so

53:54

much power concentrated. It's never come

53:56

up for creepy libertarians.

54:00

that people would say, and I had people tell me

54:02

this, during the first

54:04

Trump administration, that

54:06

what people said in Capitol Hill about Donald Trump

54:09

on camera, you know, on the

54:12

House floor, in front of him, to

54:14

people in the White House, and what they said privately were totally

54:16

different. And that's a

54:19

cowardice that you would expect from

54:21

shitty politicians. It does in some

54:23

way offer a ray of hope that these

54:26

people actually don't believe this, and

54:29

it's not much of a hope. It's a very, very thin

54:31

read to say that all they

54:33

care about is power, and if the

54:35

wind changes a little bit. But that is also hopeful

54:37

in some ways, that if the wind changes, they're not

54:39

gonna be so committed to this, but at the same

54:41

time- We'll never forgive those motherfuckers, by the way. Of

54:43

course not, no. And none of them have a

54:46

backbone or have any principles, and I have

54:49

gone on more rants in this

54:51

podcast about politicians having absolutely zero

54:53

principle about this stuff. But,

54:55

you know, it is kind of interesting

54:58

that when you see Donald Trump knows

55:00

this, and if he becomes

55:03

president again, and it's looking at the moment

55:05

that that's a pretty high possibility, that

55:08

Harry Enten, I think I sent you a screenshot of

55:10

him, Harry's very, very, fine Harry Enten's bet,

55:13

and Harry's brilliant on CNN,

55:15

talking about the Hispanic vote going

55:18

wildly towards Trump, and just a huge

55:20

20 point difference between exit polls

55:22

and current polls now, and

55:25

that being in very important states like Nevada

55:27

and Arizona. But, you

55:29

know, Trump knows that he gets one more

55:31

shot, and I know that if you talk to

55:33

the really hyperventilating people, it's like, no,

55:35

no, he's gonna never leave. It's like, that's not gonna happen.

55:37

I'm sorry, it's not gonna happen. And I will put my

55:40

money on it right now, and we'll

55:42

come back in four years, in five years, whatever,

55:44

and I will be right, and I'm very confident

55:46

in that for a variety of reasons. But

55:49

what he's actually interested in is

55:51

keeping the party in his image when people, when

55:54

he's no longer there for people to be afraid

55:56

of him. And that's why you see

55:58

very small things like Laura Trump. is

56:00

now, what, co-chair? Not

56:02

a small thing. Not a small

56:04

thing. All the money that Republicans

56:07

raise goes to Trump's legal

56:09

fans. Local races go through a

56:11

Trump family member now. And

56:13

it went through people who were sick of fans

56:16

of Trump before. But that can move, right? And

56:18

particularly when he's off the scene. If he dies,

56:20

if he has one more, and also he's gonna

56:22

do three more turns, he's like, dude, he's also

56:25

gonna be 87, so. He's

56:28

not getting better. And

56:31

so you have this thing of like,

56:33

you know, entrenching power,

56:37

that I think that there's a possibility, a very

56:39

real possibility, that the Republican

56:41

Party can boomerang back in some way. Well, no,

56:43

no, it's forever. It's like, well, no. There

56:46

was a neocon period that lasted an

56:48

amount of time that everyone who wrote books about this said it was

56:50

gonna last forever. Literally, that this

56:53

is it. It's been taken over by

56:55

neocons. That's it. You can fuck

56:57

up big time like Iraq,

57:00

and even I would say to a lesser degree Afghanistan,

57:02

which had less resonance in that way. And

57:05

people don't like you anymore, right? You

57:07

have the, you know, Taftian Republicans,

57:09

the kind of isolationist Republicans, that 1937, 38,

57:12

39, and

57:14

then on the day after Pearl Harbor, the

57:17

day after, literally the day after, was the

57:19

dissolution of the America First Committee. It

57:22

ended itself the following day. And that ended.

57:24

And they have all these periods of different

57:26

types of Republican parties. So I don't think

57:28

it's gonna last forever, but he's trying to

57:31

make sure that it does. One

57:33

thing about the Howard Kurtz interview, and when

57:35

people talk about the bloodbath,

57:39

why are you focusing on this when there's other things

57:41

to focus on that have the same word? Right

57:44

in the root. And I'm gonna read you what Howard Kurtz

57:46

said. Why do you use words like vermin and

57:49

poisoning of the blood? The press,

57:51

as you know, immediately reacts to that by saying, well, that's

57:53

the kind of language that Hitler and Mussolini used. Trump's

57:56

response. Because our country

57:58

is being poisoned. There's

58:00

nothing ambiguous about that. There's

58:02

no debate we can have over and over and over,

58:04

but what those words mean, that's bad

58:07

stuff right there. Very obviously because our

58:09

country is being poisoned. It's not. It's

58:12

not being poisoned. There's enormous amounts

58:14

of problems that are happening because

58:16

of the problems at the border. And we've

58:18

talked about them, and I think that maybe even

58:20

alienated some real, I have

58:22

anyway, rock-ribbed libertarian open borders types.

58:25

And I apologize for that, but

58:27

my baggage has moved a little bit on this. But

58:30

that kind of language, because our country

58:32

is being poisoned, you don't

58:34

need to invent shit for Donald Trump. So

58:37

keep to the stuff like that. Yeah, and

58:39

also tether it to stuff that he has

58:41

latitude or would have latitude as president. President

58:43

has a lot of latitude

58:45

on trade deals. He

58:47

wants 100% tariff on cars

58:51

from red China. Yeah, bill

58:53

in Mexico. And like 10%. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Universal

58:56

10% tariff everywhere. It's

58:58

insane. It's a horrible idea. Like

59:01

in an impoverishing idea. Both parties

59:03

love it. And he also

59:05

is, as a president, you

59:08

have a lot of latitude in immigration policy. And some of

59:10

it you might like, depending on where you're at. Some

59:13

of it is going to be draconian. And if

59:15

it was up to him, and remember in his

59:17

first administration, he really did try a Muslim ban.

59:20

It was thrown out in the courts. It

59:23

was modified, became seven countries that were predominantly

59:25

Muslim or whatever. But

59:28

the attempt was there from

59:30

the beginning. One has to

59:32

accept that he did say that it would

59:34

only be in place until he could figure

59:36

out what's going on. What's going on? And

59:38

also like give that motherfucking credit. Give

59:42

that motherfucking credit. How

59:45

many times have everyone

59:47

used that phrase? We

59:50

need to like stop Peter Suderman until we can find out

59:52

what's going on. I

59:55

at least think that on a daily basis. No,

59:58

it's genius. these turns

1:00:00

of, what's, what is the Joe Biden turn of

1:00:02

phrase besides come on man? No, I mean, come

1:00:04

on man. I mean, it's good. Yeah,

1:00:07

but he's got, he's got, I'm not kidding

1:00:09

around. He's got, I mean, he doesn't have

1:00:11

a you'd be in jail, which is possibly

1:00:13

one of the greatest moments in debate. That's

1:00:15

pretty good. And people need to separate the

1:00:17

art from the artist and realize that

1:00:19

regardless of what he is, that

1:00:22

was a fucking, wrong

1:00:25

and Donald Trump. Yeah, wrong is

1:00:28

also really, really good. I might've used

1:00:30

that recently. The thing that people

1:00:33

don't connect because I think we've had this

1:00:35

conversation before of the complications that come with,

1:00:38

I think I've touched on this maybe on Megan

1:00:40

McCain's podcast when I was on it recently, the

1:00:42

complications that people have when dealing with economic policy.

1:00:45

And it's very, very tough to figure this

1:00:47

stuff out. And that's why when you're young,

1:00:49

that radical socialist policies seem to

1:00:51

just make everybody be equal, just

1:00:54

share everything. And no one person can make that much. And

1:00:56

it's like, oh, that makes sense. And it doesn't make any

1:00:58

sense. But the thing that the

1:01:00

average person is not connecting here is that

1:01:02

when you go on and everyone's talking about

1:01:04

blood sucking, fucking blood baths and

1:01:06

vermin and like reacting to the language and

1:01:09

they should react to the ones that are

1:01:11

real and not the ones that aren't real, is

1:01:13

that what is a 100%

1:01:15

tariff, 10%

1:01:18

tariff, 15% tariff on anything? It's

1:01:20

inflationary. What is the argument

1:01:22

that Donald Trump is making about the economy

1:01:24

that we have out of control inflation? And

1:01:27

you are in the next breath saying,

1:01:30

well, I need to do things that will

1:01:32

be wildly inflationary, increase the tax of goods

1:01:34

for poor people across the country. Maybe

1:01:37

talk about that, that'd be substantial, but

1:01:40

it's not gonna get you the mediate hit. It's not

1:01:42

gonna have Jen Psaki breathing heavily

1:01:44

and saying, oh my God, how horrible it

1:01:46

is. Yeah, the reason he's gonna win this

1:01:48

election now is that we know he's horrible

1:01:51

and nobody fucking cares. I

1:01:53

don't know why they don't care, but they don't fucking

1:01:55

care. That's when you are diagnosing

1:01:57

something just in a clinical kind of

1:01:59

way. is like I just can tell you, I don't

1:02:02

know why, I don't know how to make them

1:02:04

care, but if you keep telling them, it's not

1:02:06

gonna work, because it never has, they don't care.

1:02:08

I'm still on record as it was on Megan

1:02:10

Kelly last time, and we're going on again, I

1:02:12

think next week. Next week, right? Should be a

1:02:14

bloodbath. Oh, great, yeah. I

1:02:17

hope it's all about a trans-fony Willis. I

1:02:19

don't think that he's gonna win, I would

1:02:21

still bet. My bet is that I wish

1:02:24

he probably would just bet. I

1:02:26

mean, I don't engage in those wagers.

1:02:30

I do, yeah. I'll let you guys do it, I will hold the,

1:02:35

I will put the Bruins tickets that will no longer

1:02:37

be good, because the person will give them to me,

1:02:39

or I'll buy them from him, and I'll go to

1:02:41

the game on Thursday, and I will put that on,

1:02:43

yeah, I will bet that. I'll

1:02:45

put the Stubbs autograph by Brad Marsh on the

1:02:47

table. That's fair enough. Or Bobby Orr. But you

1:02:49

still don't think he'll win. It's,

1:02:52

I don't have a lot of confidence in

1:02:55

it, but I think that there's a ceiling on his

1:02:57

attraction to the American people,

1:03:01

and that he's like,

1:03:04

actually the Laura Trump situation is bad

1:03:06

for him, or it

1:03:08

indicates a badness. There's gonna be

1:03:10

such a spending mismatch. Just the challenges that

1:03:12

the RNC is having. I mean, just, they

1:03:15

have a huge challenge on raising money. Yeah.

1:03:18

He can look really great in a

1:03:20

Republican primary, he can squash the competition.

1:03:22

He did, absolutely did. He has full

1:03:25

control over the party. There's no question

1:03:27

about that. It's very impressive to take

1:03:29

over a party. And at

1:03:31

the same time, he has not

1:03:33

shown in a

1:03:35

really, really long time, basically since election day in

1:03:38

2016, that

1:03:40

he can get even a plurality of

1:03:43

independents and people who are not Republican

1:03:45

party members. And

1:03:47

he's been polling better than them, better

1:03:49

than Joe Biden among independents for a

1:03:51

good while now, including in all the

1:03:54

swing states. Yeah. So there's all

1:03:56

that. I still think that there is that, I

1:03:59

think it's more of a... right? That

1:04:02

the reality hasn't sunk in, that

1:04:05

he's going to be the nominee and that changes

1:04:07

the dynamic of things. And

1:04:09

then just this wild card, I mean he's,

1:04:12

what was it, $462 million he's

1:04:14

got to cop up by like Tuesday. Yeah,

1:04:16

and they're gonna start seizing his assets. Some

1:04:18

of that will be down to his benefit

1:04:21

because it'll seem like people are coming after

1:04:23

him unfairly, which they are. There's no question

1:04:25

of, I think, that the

1:04:27

legal system in certain places are

1:04:29

coming after him unfairly and disproportionately.

1:04:33

Some of it also is just going to be

1:04:35

deleterious to his campaign, the functioning of it. Why

1:04:38

do you think people don't care about that? About

1:04:40

what? About the situation? The

1:04:43

fact that we have

1:04:45

reams of evidence that

1:04:48

when you do stuff like this happens,

1:04:50

and I know the response would be,

1:04:52

well it should happen because it's real

1:04:54

and he should be prosecuted, blah blah

1:04:57

blah, but that these people want to

1:04:59

see Donald Trump just erased from the political

1:05:01

scene. I wouldn't be

1:05:03

upset about that either, but they've been

1:05:06

trying to take shortcuts forever to do this

1:05:08

and every time it blows up in their

1:05:10

face and they keep on pushing it and

1:05:12

they cannot separate two things. That if you

1:05:14

are on this podcast saying, as

1:05:16

Matt just said, they're going after him

1:05:19

and I think it's partially unfair

1:05:21

that the people who are desperate

1:05:23

to get rid of him, the sort of

1:05:26

anti, the real dug-in

1:05:28

anti-Trump people would be so upset by

1:05:30

that because they can't separate the

1:05:33

fact that he's a shitty person and

1:05:36

bad for the country politically, I think. And

1:05:39

I can hold a separate thought in my head that I

1:05:42

don't think that Leticia

1:05:45

James is doing the

1:05:47

right thing here and doing it for the right reasons and

1:05:49

I think it's slightly unfair. And like

1:05:51

85 million dollars to Eugene Carroll seems like a

1:05:53

lot. It seems like a lot. It seems like

1:05:55

a lot, particularly when you actually not many people

1:05:58

follow the internet to that case. And

1:06:01

the reason was that

1:06:03

there was no Lewinsky type stuff. There

1:06:10

was no like you remember the dress, the

1:06:12

stain, and the cigar, and all this stuff.

1:06:15

It was just like she didn't really remember

1:06:17

this, that, and the other. And it just

1:06:19

didn't strike a lot of people as plausible.

1:06:22

And I just most people... Or maybe

1:06:24

not plausible, but like, you

1:06:26

know, open and shut provable.

1:06:29

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And

1:06:31

I don't know what happened, but

1:06:34

when I paid attention to it, I was

1:06:36

like, it doesn't strike me that this is

1:06:38

a slam dunk in any way. And

1:06:41

you know, it was also imagine if

1:06:43

the case was against Barack Obama

1:06:45

and it was ginned up at

1:06:47

a Glenn Beck dinner party.

1:06:50

You know, I mean, that's what happened. I

1:06:53

was, you know, literally she was

1:06:55

drafted into this after

1:06:57

telling a story, I suppose. But it was that

1:06:59

it was, you know, you can, it's public record

1:07:01

that it was George Conway and

1:07:03

Molly John Fast house or something similar

1:07:05

to that. So look it up. Don't trust

1:07:08

me on that. But, and I'm not

1:07:10

saying that that's only doesn't change whether that's true or not.

1:07:12

But I think if the situation was Glenn

1:07:15

Beck's dinner party in the

1:07:17

real anti-Obama types and somebody was

1:07:19

there and yeah, I

1:07:21

think they'd be a little more skeptical. Can we

1:07:24

go back to the Trump won't

1:07:26

win thing? That's not

1:07:28

like declaration, it's just my suspicion. If I

1:07:30

had to bet, that's it. But

1:07:32

Moynihan, you sent a message

1:07:34

earlier to our text thread. It was Harry

1:07:37

Enten, like looking through the maps.

1:07:40

Yeah. In particular pointing to Arizona

1:07:42

and Nevada and the fact that Trump is

1:07:44

ahead in both of these states at

1:07:46

the moment. There's a state that, you know, Biden

1:07:48

in 2020, like just barely even out a win

1:07:50

there. Like between those states and

1:07:53

various other battleground states where Trump

1:07:55

is doing better than anticipated. He

1:07:58

also points out. Wisconsin,

1:08:00

Michigan, and his, and

1:08:03

go watch it, because

1:08:05

I don't want to screw up what Harry said, but he

1:08:08

basically said that Biden would have

1:08:11

to win like all

1:08:14

of them, three, and he's just getting crushed or

1:08:16

not doing well in almost all

1:08:18

of them now, and he would have to

1:08:20

run cables. Yeah, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin. Yeah,

1:08:22

Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and whoever

1:08:25

the other host was, you know, when Harry's

1:08:27

standing in front of the big screen. And

1:08:30

by the way, I have to say, for

1:08:32

America's political culture, the big screen people we

1:08:34

have are fucking great. They're good. Harry

1:08:37

Enten is so good. He's good, John King

1:08:39

is good. John King is good. Especially when

1:08:41

he's drunk. And yeah, when Bin Laden is

1:08:43

killed, and he's like, he's a god.

1:08:47

I know them, but respect my king. And

1:08:49

for some reason, people don't really know about

1:08:51

this, when Bin Laden was killed in 2011,

1:08:53

I think, 11. I

1:08:57

think so, and he was out with his

1:09:00

then wife, who's Dana Bash, and was called

1:09:02

back to, and that's his end.

1:09:04

It's a big deal. Absolutely juiced, and it's

1:09:06

the best. He's an Irish guy from Dorchester,

1:09:08

Mass. It's the best. But a lot of

1:09:10

respect for him, and Steve Kornacki, too. But

1:09:13

his, what Harry

1:09:16

says there. You say Steve Kornacki, too.

1:09:18

Yeah, Steve Kornacki's best top pyramid. Yeah,

1:09:21

everyone who looks at this podcast knows that

1:09:23

we revere the Steve Kornacki. Frequent

1:09:26

guest and our friend. But

1:09:30

what Harry says during that, he says, and

1:09:32

this is the exact quote, he

1:09:34

says it's game over. If the map

1:09:36

stays what it is now, it's game over button. There's

1:09:38

no way he can win. Yeah, for me, it's just

1:09:40

like, it's that if. It's if, yeah, it is where

1:09:42

we are now. It's a lot of things to happen.

1:09:45

No, I mean, it's so early. It's so early, especially

1:09:47

for these two. And we

1:09:49

have the, you know. But this isn't Dukakis, is what I'm

1:09:51

saying. Yeah. I

1:09:53

mean, on one hand, there is, Biden

1:09:56

is historically unpopular. We've never seen it.

1:09:59

Never have seen. And people think, oh,

1:10:01

he's just as unpopular as Donald Trump

1:10:03

was. He's not. At

1:10:05

this stage in Trump's presidency, there's a material

1:10:07

difference between the two. It's a problem. And

1:10:10

it's funny because the delusions that you got

1:10:12

from the pro-Trump people during the Trump administration,

1:10:14

they were so bad at it. And

1:10:17

they were like the conservative C-listers of DC

1:10:19

that came out of like, who are these

1:10:21

like, oh, I once I saw that guy

1:10:23

once at some leadership institute conference or whatever

1:10:26

you happen to walk by. And

1:10:29

when you have the opposite

1:10:32

of that with Biden, they're

1:10:34

more sophisticated at it, but they're just as bad

1:10:36

in the sense that all of

1:10:39

the argument about this is that he has

1:10:41

historically low approval ratings. So

1:10:43

what is wrong? What's the matter with

1:10:45

Kansas? How do they not realize

1:10:47

that everything is great? And who is

1:10:49

lying to them and tricking

1:10:52

them into thinking that things aren't great,

1:10:54

which is that false consciousness stuff does

1:10:56

not play well with the American people.

1:10:59

And it also ends up being like

1:11:01

this really weird circular firing squad, brow

1:11:03

beating the media. Like you

1:11:05

are using the wrong adjectives to describe

1:11:07

Trump, you're platforming him and you

1:11:10

are not like. This is James Comey and

1:11:12

Hillary all over again. Emphasizing the stakes at

1:11:14

every moment in every dispute and like weighing

1:11:17

it. And we're going to see a lot

1:11:19

of that. And that's is alienating

1:11:22

people. I mean, you asked

1:11:24

me earlier, like, why doesn't the bad

1:11:26

Trump stuff stick to Trump?

1:11:30

And it is the ultimate, I

1:11:32

think, question of

1:11:34

his role in

1:11:36

American political life and popularity,

1:11:39

which is that he

1:11:41

is this, this kind

1:11:43

of totem, something that people use

1:11:46

to get back at

1:11:48

an elite that they hate. Correct.

1:11:51

And so when the elite responds by saying

1:11:53

you should hate him more, like, cool, that

1:11:56

proves my point. And we're in

1:11:58

that loop. I think if your

1:12:01

parents tell you not to smoke, you start to smoke. It

1:12:05

explains you. They

1:12:08

tell me to smoke and I was like, that's good.

1:12:11

Smart. Can you give

1:12:13

us some fucking Camelites? No, no,

1:12:15

no, no. LS MFT,

1:12:17

Lucky Strike means fine tobacco. My

1:12:19

dad smoked so so it was Lucky Strikes. Did he send you to

1:12:22

the corn store to get some? Correct. And

1:12:26

guess what I picked up when I was there? My

1:12:28

own package. Yeah.

1:12:31

I mean, stop the media. Stop telling

1:12:33

your kids not to smoke. Stop telling them everyone.

1:12:36

You got to have a confidence

1:12:38

filter in them cigarettes. Stop

1:12:40

believing that the new adjective, you're going to find

1:12:42

it. You're going to find it. It's going to

1:12:44

be like, the new case, the new adjective. Unobtainium.

1:12:46

If you're going to get it, it's really going

1:12:48

to fucking work this time. You would

1:12:51

say that as a hetero, a rock sex

1:12:53

skit. I don't remember the word. What did

1:12:55

you wear? I've never used. Hack

1:12:57

ox, homo-docks. I don't know.

1:13:01

No, it's, they are in

1:13:04

that loop and they are gearing

1:13:06

themselves up for another season. This

1:13:08

would be like the third or fourth political season

1:13:10

of doing that. Yeah. And

1:13:13

you're not persuading people. I

1:13:15

don't think. If people were to

1:13:17

say like, okay, you know,

1:13:20

there's been a thing in the past couple of days because

1:13:22

I don't, I don't still quite understand

1:13:24

why people go through like one transcript in front

1:13:26

of them. What did they say here? If

1:13:29

you were to go back into the archive of

1:13:31

this podcast, you could probably string

1:13:33

things together to make us the most anti-Trump podcast

1:13:37

ever invented and one that is defending

1:13:39

Trump all the time. Mostly Camille just

1:13:41

saying MAGA. Yeah. Yeah.

1:13:45

But you're saying that if you wanted to sum it

1:13:47

up, I would

1:13:49

say, and I say this for all three

1:13:51

of us, I think it's probably just, you know, all three of

1:13:53

us kind of have this instinct is

1:13:56

what, and I think this is exactly where

1:13:58

I stand now. Is it the modern? the modern Republican

1:14:01

party and the modern conservative movement

1:14:04

is a disgrace. And

1:14:06

the media is a disgrace too. And

1:14:08

those in, in, in, because of the disgracefulness

1:14:11

of the modern Republican party, it

1:14:13

has made that disgraceful media a thousand times worse. A

1:14:16

thousand times worse. I mean, I lived

1:14:18

through this at a place that

1:14:20

had no credibility and squandered whatever credibility

1:14:22

it had very quickly. Which won the

1:14:24

daily piece or the No, not that.

1:14:28

Did I work? I don't remember that one. The last one you

1:14:30

said I'm not familiar with. Yeah. But it

1:14:32

was like, you know, as I said, one time

1:14:35

this podcast said you would never have known for

1:14:37

the year, first year of Joe Biden's presidency that

1:14:39

he was president. It was

1:14:41

all about QAnon and all about

1:14:44

MAGA and all about Proud for

1:14:46

MAGA. It was Ultra MAGA. But it was

1:14:48

like they couldn't get on. That's not, it

1:14:50

was Ultra MAGA, probably. My

1:14:52

name is Ultra MAGA. I love Ultra

1:14:55

MAGA. I was just like, so

1:14:57

we'll say MAGA, but just say Ultra, like that's

1:14:59

great. Like, yes. And then say

1:15:01

that it wants to like cut social

1:15:03

security. Yeah, exactly. Now I'm talking about

1:15:05

Ultra Super MAGA to transform a Republican

1:15:07

party as a conversion. How

1:15:10

many Yeezys has he bought tonight?

1:15:12

Seven. Yeah. Just

1:15:14

cleaning up. You suggested that I make

1:15:16

this investment. And it does. Nobody said

1:15:18

that. Matt did.

1:15:21

Matt did. Why don't

1:15:23

you use some arbitrage in the market

1:15:26

You're right, Matt. I mean, Matt is another

1:15:28

white man trying to back up

1:15:30

the black man. But

1:15:35

the QAnon shit, it's

1:15:37

just so easy. The

1:15:39

villains are so easy. There's no moral challenge to

1:15:41

it at all. Do you remember? You didn't talk

1:15:43

about that anymore. When was the last time you

1:15:46

heard anything about QAnon? Well, that's just because, yeah.

1:15:48

That's just because, that's it. They

1:15:52

were hardly alone. They were hardly alone. But

1:15:54

I mean, they were the worst. Do you

1:15:56

remember? It was an ascendant cult.

1:15:59

Like it was gonna. take over America. We found Q. You remember that?

1:16:01

And it was some Asian kid. Seriously. Ian

1:16:08

Miles Chon? Yes.

1:16:12

No, we don't call him by that name. We call

1:16:14

him the black people fighting

1:16:16

Twitter again. That's all he does. What

1:16:19

is QAnon, the viral pro-Trump conspiracy theory? This is

1:16:21

in the New York Times. It was viral because

1:16:23

they kept on making it go viral. It's literally-

1:16:26

Like Kevin Roos. But it's hilarious. Wasn't Kevin on

1:16:28

the podcast? He was. He was, yeah. Kevin Crews?

1:16:30

I wonder if he would admit that. Carter-

1:16:34

Connor Crews. No, he-

1:16:36

that thing was really funny because when

1:16:39

the QAnon people- when

1:16:42

the vice-a-b-d-be like, do you know how crazy these people are?

1:16:44

They think JFK Jr. is coming back in

1:16:46

Dallas and I'm like, oh, is that what they

1:16:48

said? Let me see. That's what they said. Yeah,

1:16:50

okay, great. Do you know what that tells me?

1:16:52

Is it literally no one

1:16:54

believes? That there's a core group of

1:16:56

mentally ill people that you are focusing

1:16:58

on- And Roger Stone. Well,

1:17:01

Roger Stone doesn't believe anything. That's a mean asset.

1:17:03

Yeah, and Roger Stone. Yeah. And

1:17:05

that is like you're focusing on- there

1:17:07

was a podcast

1:17:09

I heard a long time ago, an

1:17:11

Australian podcast, and it was this woman whose mother,

1:17:13

Australian mother, this shows you how it has nothing

1:17:15

to do with the fucking media in America. All

1:17:18

these people in Europe, there

1:17:21

was a QAnon movement in Germany, and

1:17:23

this woman's Australian mother got super into

1:17:25

QAnon and you're hearing this podcast, it

1:17:27

was pretty interesting, and it's like, oh,

1:17:29

wow, your mother's descending late in life

1:17:31

into mental illness. And this

1:17:33

is what she glommed onto. And

1:17:36

it's just probably from a fucking

1:17:38

MSNBC article. She was like, QAnon,

1:17:40

that sounds interesting. What's that? So

1:17:42

you're saying MSNBC was amplifying the

1:17:45

whole QAnon podcast? I don't think that's

1:17:47

the verb that he used. I think, yeah.

1:17:49

I would say that that was

1:17:51

probably right. It was amplification. Yeah, I don't want to

1:17:53

use that because it's already been used and I'm a

1:17:56

hadorRoxist. Right. I'm just

1:17:58

heterodos. HadorRoxist. And

1:18:01

I like just the only opposite of every issue. I

1:18:03

don't have any believe It

1:18:16

just all comes back in one hand Not

1:18:21

that there's anything wrong with no no

1:18:23

no pride we we got we got

1:18:25

like three Because these

1:18:27

emails from sub-stag and somebody subscribed

1:18:30

Mm-hmm, and it says like where

1:18:32

they came from hmm It's a they click through

1:18:34

from a recommendation from you've seen this in

1:18:36

the last bunch. We're from Andrew Sullivan. Oh,

1:18:39

yeah So you just really

1:18:41

shot us out about man, correct? Yes. Yeah,

1:18:43

I think Andrew would be very proud of

1:18:45

me for saying darling

1:18:47

I do too You've

1:18:50

been back on since the like the

1:18:52

tide pools episode

1:18:56

His podcast twice since then I think

1:18:58

we need no Fun

1:19:03

gasps, I don't give a shit what he says

1:19:05

or what you think of him He's just a

1:19:07

fun guest who loves playing along and and who

1:19:10

don't look at me when you say what you

1:19:12

think of it I love and I don't look

1:19:14

at you said so I didn't Know

1:19:17

we didn't like Yeah,

1:19:22

okay, I know you're Jamaican mother-in-law Well,

1:19:25

no don't talk about it to my mama I'm

1:19:40

working on her. Yeah, I got on is she voting for

1:19:42

Trump? Who knows

1:19:45

day to day one doesn't know I saw it

1:19:47

Harry and he after he had the Hispanics

1:19:49

He had black voters to throw my money and

1:19:52

yes She

1:19:57

Yeah, does she self-identify come here

1:20:00

As my mom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:20:04

That's right. I'm Camille's mother. She's

1:20:06

never cared about that. We're Camille's. We identify as

1:20:08

Camille's co-podcasters. Yeah. Is

1:20:11

there anything else that happened in the world or something? Keep it to

1:20:13

the tight 130. No, you know.

1:20:17

Probably fine. Are we good? I

1:20:19

got a flight out in the morning and then I'll be

1:20:21

back next week, which is crazy. Isn't it better when you're

1:20:24

here, Camille? It's fun when I'm here. Do you want

1:20:26

to reflect on that? But you know what? Abstinence

1:20:29

makes the heart grow fonder. Is that what this

1:20:31

expression is? I think it is. I

1:20:33

don't think. That's what my wife told me. Yeah.

1:20:36

Yeah. Yeah. That's for all

1:20:38

the women who won't fuck me. Sorry.

1:20:44

Sorry if your kids are listening. I'm

1:20:46

getting it. No. If your

1:20:48

kids are listening, did you say I be getting it? I do. I

1:20:50

think I do. That's what we do. I say

1:20:52

that too. And it's one of the reasons I don't get

1:20:54

it. No, that's not true at all. I'm doing great. Yeah.

1:20:58

I'm cleaning up. I'm cleaning up, but

1:21:00

it's great. And I'm in my prime, which is the best

1:21:02

part. You're in your prime and you've been with the same

1:21:04

women since you were 15? Yeah. Sixteen.

1:21:08

Sixteen. You stayed at three different hotels

1:21:10

while you were here? Yeah. Yeah,

1:21:12

it's a little weird. Yeah. It

1:21:14

was mostly in the same first three hours when

1:21:16

I got here. It's as if you showed up

1:21:18

to a place and it got soiled and

1:21:20

then you showed up to a new place.

1:21:24

No, I had a series of weird situations.

1:21:26

You know how badly? I want to say

1:21:28

something to be honest with you and I

1:21:30

want all of your listeners to, if you've

1:21:33

made it this far, use your imagination. Yeah.

1:21:36

Matt just said, you know, he's there for

1:21:38

anything else to leave. Yeah. And

1:21:40

in my head, I had a scenario that

1:21:42

I almost blurted out and I realized that I

1:21:45

cannot do a Chinese

1:21:47

accent and say, you get

1:21:49

out of here in a

1:21:52

Chinese accent from all the places you've been

1:21:54

on Canal Street in the past couple of

1:21:56

days. You cannot sleep

1:21:58

here in a Chinese accent. and just

1:22:00

use the AI to do it. I'm

1:22:04

gonna have Moynihan racist Chinese AI.

1:22:07

Well, yeah, I mean, you can just use my voice

1:22:10

and have Chad GPT destroy

1:22:12

my life. My

1:22:14

usual place was sold out, so I tried a

1:22:16

different place. Sold out? A chain

1:22:18

of hotels. Of Robin Cook joints,

1:22:21

just like so crazy. There

1:22:23

were new forms of life growing in the

1:22:25

shower, and then I got

1:22:28

to the other one, and it was

1:22:30

teeming with grain flies. Wow. It's

1:22:32

just unbelievable crazy. The

1:22:35

guy shows up to my room from downstairs

1:22:37

to take a look at the situation. He

1:22:39

has gloves and a pesticide bottle his hands.

1:22:41

Like, you want me to spray it? And I was like, no,

1:22:43

no, no, no, let me spray these. This isn't gonna work. Maybe

1:22:45

if he's dead, I won't stay here. Go

1:22:49

to places that were oriented around like $79 a

1:22:51

day. Come

1:22:55

stay down here, dugs. The

1:22:57

last time. The last

1:22:59

time. Doug's Road Motel. Wake up, daughter. Doug's

1:23:02

Road Kill. The

1:23:04

last time we had a podcast that Matt

1:23:06

wasn't on was because he was like, ha,

1:23:09

ha, ha, ha, Barstow,

1:23:12

what, what the fuck is he? That's

1:23:15

$79 free parking. Yeah. He's

1:23:18

gonna be half a biscuit of the morning. It's

1:23:21

the owner of the time's free fuel. Curve

1:23:23

your own. We

1:23:26

have internet. One

1:23:28

internet connection that everyone shares. The

1:23:31

one thing I love about LA, and

1:23:33

there's a lot of things I love about LA, there's a lot of

1:23:35

crappy things, but a lot of things I love about LA. If you

1:23:38

get off, I guess it's the 10 or the 405, and

1:23:41

you get on to Sepulveda, that

1:23:44

long stretch of Sepulveda, which I guess

1:23:46

goes towards, goes north, I

1:23:48

guess, towards the reason I was, it has

1:23:50

all these old motels, and it comes with

1:23:53

all the original signs. It's

1:23:55

so crazy, it's like a movie set, and it's so

1:23:57

awesome, and the greatest thing about it is

1:23:59

it's still. People

1:24:03

have the signs free HBO, which I was

1:24:05

like, that was a thing that people would

1:24:07

be like, I'm really tired, but

1:24:10

which one has HBO? We've got beds.

1:24:12

Yeah, it was like, every time

1:24:15

they said which one has home

1:24:17

boss office. So I

1:24:19

can watch Not Necessarily the News. You're

1:24:23

not necessarily the news? The

1:24:25

original Jon Stewart, I guess, right?

1:24:28

Oh, man. Not Necessarily the

1:24:30

News. All right. Okay. All

1:24:33

right. That was fun. Yeah, well, it's

1:24:35

been a good week so far. It's been a good week so far. Knocked a couple

1:24:37

out real fast, didn't we? Yeah. You know, and

1:24:39

they're not all about the same subject. No. I

1:24:42

was also going to make a joke about you

1:24:44

going back. It's uncomfortable not to be doing the

1:24:46

equivalent of 40,000 words about one topic. Weird.

1:24:51

About you going to the hotel and knocking a

1:24:53

couple out? Yeah,

1:24:56

that's not what happened. Careful

1:25:00

for the flies. Yeah. Yeah. I'm

1:25:03

fine now. I'm good now. And

1:25:06

fuck y'all. All right. Okay. Bye.

1:25:25

Bye.