0:00

Hey listeners, what you're about to hear is

0:02

an excerpt of the Filmcast After Dark. As

0:04

a reminder, the Filmcast After Dark is an

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exclusive bonus episode that's released about once a

0:09

week that you can find at patreon.com/filmpodcast where

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you can also sign up for ad-free

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episodes as well as early access episodes. In

0:15

this After Dark we discuss Guy Ritchie's The

0:18

Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare, which was just out

0:20

in theaters recently. We recorded this a

0:22

couple weeks ago. A quick note to let

0:24

you know that you should assume there will

0:27

be spoilers for the movie in this conversation.

0:30

So you've been warned, do not listen unless

0:32

you've seen the film or don't care about

0:34

spoilers. Enjoy this excerpt. I think it's a

0:36

lot of fun. We discussed the filmographies of

0:38

Matthew Vaughn versus Guy Ritchie at the end

0:40

and that was a fun discussion. But yeah,

0:43

patreon.com/filmpodcast, how you can sign up for more

0:45

episodes. Thanks to everyone at patreon.com/filmpodcast who supports

0:47

the show and makes it possible. What's

0:50

the plan? To neutralize the German U-boats in

0:52

the North Atlantic. We're

0:56

losing the war. Hitler

0:58

is not playing by the rules, so neither

1:01

are we. We

1:06

both know that I'm not

1:09

very popular with the administration. The reason they

1:11

find you unattractive is the very reason I

1:13

find you A-tractive. If I'm

1:18

to do this, I'll need my own

1:21

team. You won't like them. They're

1:24

all mad. All

1:30

right. Let's talk about Guy

1:32

Ritchie's The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfar. We'll probably

1:34

share some very brief non-spoilery thoughts before we

1:36

get to full spoilers on this movie. Jeff

1:38

Kanata, I'm going to start with you today.

1:41

All right. What did

1:43

you think of this movie? I

1:46

thought it was fun. I have

1:49

some problems with it, but I

1:51

overall had a pretty fun time.

1:53

I would describe The Ministry of

1:55

Ungentlemanly Warfare as what

1:58

if inglorious bastards And

2:00

Oceans 11 had a baby. And

2:02

it was directed by Guy Richey. Mm-hmm. I

2:08

think the stars of this movie are

2:10

fun. There are some moments where it

2:12

really gets cooking and you are in

2:14

this kind of Oceans 11 heist that

2:18

is going wrong and we're having

2:20

to improvise on our feet and

2:22

really fun people are doing really

2:24

fun things. And in those

2:27

moments I was having a great time. And

2:30

that's enough I think to

2:32

recommend watching it. I

2:35

think it's directed with aplomb. It is

2:37

that Guy Richey slickness.

2:41

The biggest problem I have with this

2:43

movie is that it purports to be

2:45

a true story that

2:49

at no point plays even

2:51

remotely like it could

2:53

have possibly happened, right? It

2:56

is, this is a

2:58

Guy Richey movie, not in

3:01

the Guy Richey's The Covenant

3:03

template. Right, which

3:05

does feel very down-terred. Yes, he's capable

3:07

of making a true story that

3:09

feels true. I think

3:11

The Covenant, though exaggerated in

3:14

some elements, did

3:16

feel grounded and possible,

3:19

you know what I mean? Jeff and I both

3:21

really like that movie. Yeah, I

3:23

thought it was excellent. It had some

3:25

problems, but overall. But this is much

3:27

more like Snatch or The

3:29

Man from Unkull. This

3:32

is like classic Guy Richey

3:34

slickness, blithe, disregard

3:36

for danger. At

3:39

no point, at no point do any

3:41

of these characters feel

3:44

like they can fail. They are

3:46

super human. They

3:48

are superheroes who blithely stare

3:51

in the face of danger and let

3:53

the bullet zip inches from their nose

3:56

Because they know they are going to

3:58

be amazing. They Have no fear. We.

4:00

Have you have no she area they have

4:02

it just seems issue with a beekeeper as

4:04

well right? Is it? Yeah yeah honestly I'm

4:06

I'm having issues. way better than the beekeeper

4:08

but ah. The

4:11

problem with that is that when

4:13

you that can be very fun

4:15

and is very fun in this

4:17

movie it is very fun in.

4:20

She's. Other movies you know in The Gentleman

4:22

at the Tv Show, in the Gentleman the

4:24

Movie and when you have these like. Cooler

4:27

than cool dude who have just

4:29

seen at all and are just

4:31

on a the. The. Strength

4:34

of their own charm and. Self.

4:36

Confidence. Can. Slip

4:39

through any situation and and work the

4:41

angles. That's fine. Man, that's that's classic

4:43

James Bond that you know that is.

4:45

It's a very fun thing. It's Ocean's

4:47

Eleven a lot of ways. It's like

4:49

you get to hang out with the

4:51

coolest dude on the block with the

4:53

best. They are what they do and

4:55

it is just a ride to be

4:57

with those folks. I love a movie

4:59

like that. That. Is this

5:02

movie? Unfortunately. It is

5:04

also trying to have it's cake and eat. It's

5:06

easy to by saying hey this really happened. And.

5:08

It's ever going to show you the pictures of

5:10

these people at the into the movie as in

5:12

this of million milligal a real thing the habit

5:14

of World War Two as like. Okay,

5:18

It. Didn't happen like this. At

5:21

all of you know,

5:23

not remotely lights and.

5:26

So. Part of me as like. A

5:29

t really do with a like that slam. Them as

5:31

sign that you've you've failed the

5:33

assignment, you know? If the

5:35

assignment was make of. Fun

5:38

movie that. Gives. Me

5:40

of a cool ride and feels like

5:42

you know why you're. A. Superhero

5:44

movie or of or of of of kind

5:46

of. Heightened. Action Movie.

5:48

You've succeeded. But. That's

5:51

Not this assignment that you are telling me

5:53

you're doing. What you're telling me you're doing

5:55

is telling me about this. This. Amazing

5:57

thing that happened in history and. It's

6:00

always there and you know, like it

6:02

really happened. This is a big important

6:04

historical moment with real humans that I'm

6:07

you know, dramatizing. And it just

6:09

doesn't play that way at all. So I kind of. Bristled

6:11

at that, even if I

6:13

recognize that. The. Moment

6:15

to moment was was pretty entertaining

6:18

and I. I had a good

6:20

time. I wish there was a little bit more. Steaks,

6:23

In the sense of potential of failure,

6:25

potential of fear, potential loves you know

6:28

I wish to these guys. Weren't.

6:31

Just supremely confident every moment

6:33

of the movie. I.

6:35

Think you'd have a more from matter? It's

6:37

just that does no drama here. It's just.

6:40

Kind. Of excitement and how's it going to

6:42

happen? But. That's

6:44

that I have a good time with

6:46

Ministry of on Gentlemen despite everything you

6:48

just out of his own, I like

6:51

has it's not my top five Guy

6:53

Ritchie movies nine. I. Think

6:55

they're standing actors doing shining stars.

6:58

Can have some fun action moments and

7:00

there's one section in the middle of

7:02

the movie that takes place at night.

7:04

That is genuinely awesome. Like where

7:06

we have different groups of people

7:08

doing different things in different places

7:10

oceans Eleven style and they're all

7:12

trying to pull off this very

7:14

difficult heist at it doesn't go

7:17

as planned and in that section

7:19

alone as like this is, I'm

7:21

having a really good time right

7:23

now. And. That was enough for me

7:25

to give it up. You know? A. Mitigated

7:27

sums up. The.

7:29

When you're on or your thoughts on ministry of and

7:31

Gentlemen The Warfare. Ah, I see

7:33

the comparison to inglorious Basterds is pretty pretty

7:35

apt that they're very similar movies in kind

7:38

of shows like how to how different Thirty

7:40

Know is Guy Ritchie are is already simple

7:42

at some point you know you can. I

7:44

used to it on that actually and say

7:46

that Scott Mendelson I think gave personality which

7:48

I think is. Really perfect. Which.

7:51

Is the S a T analogy would

7:53

go with with a Den of Thieves

7:55

used to heat serve. As

7:58

ministry of on gentlemanly Warfare is doing. Absolutely

8:00

bear. And if you that sounds awesome view

8:02

that you're going to like this movie. and

8:05

if that sounds like one of the worst

8:07

things that ever happened to cinema. You're.

8:09

Not going like this. I mean a lot to be baby

8:11

watch more movies. Good for people to.terrible have a disservice. It's

8:14

it's a lot of people. Does a lot of these lot

8:16

of people think that of these. Sucks.

8:18

I think that of these I think that

8:20

these rates yeah the there is room for

8:22

the denim fees and there is room for

8:25

yes and there. I might regret ever a

8:27

president of the sequels gonna happen. Or

8:29

with I'm really excited more than of these than

8:31

of more Thief. It's

8:34

called Den of Thieves to Pantera. Pantera,

8:37

Era in it. And ah yes,

8:39

gonna be a sequel to the

8:42

movie. And it's supposed to be

8:44

coming out in late. Twenty Twenty

8:46

Four. I'm really excited about

8:48

that of these for to any Okay

8:50

so the be given that comparison by

8:52

way. thank you Scott Mendelson armed him

8:55

Yeah I enjoy it on the level

8:57

of I enjoy something like down Please

8:59

I think it's a really fun you

9:01

know historical action film with a great

9:03

cast. I'm like put Henry Cavil in

9:05

everything Guy Ritchie does please because the

9:08

clearly like they have fun together Henry

9:10

Cavil seems their fun. These roles it

9:12

is very much like is James Bond

9:14

never really sells vulnerability right like specially

9:16

me earlier movies. In this is very

9:18

much man from Uncle Style were like these

9:21

are just superheroes. Go. On big set

9:23

pieces coming up with heists and whatnot. I think

9:25

Man from Uncle is a much better film and

9:27

much more fun. Films this and could have been

9:30

tightened up. It is two hours long and feals

9:32

maybe fifteen or twenty minutes to long as they're

9:34

stretches like towards the third act were I just

9:36

feel like. I. feel like i'm

9:39

trying away from movie to get on with

9:41

it or something because there is a lot

9:43

of set up a times but there are

9:45

so many great sequences i love this entire

9:47

cast like ellen ritson allen ritalin is just

9:49

the way he looks the shirts he wears

9:52

hamlin rich since a tv reacher with a

9:54

bow and arrow you know with a bow

9:56

knives just like because i'm slice enough nazis

9:58

like there is a pure enjoyment

10:01

level that I take from this movie. And

10:03

it's just like people that I like having

10:05

a lot of fun killing Nazis. I think

10:07

that's pretty enjoyable. It could have been

10:09

tighter. I think that would have made for an overall

10:11

better movie. But man, like I just, I love this

10:13

cast, Isaac Gonzalez. I love her in everything

10:16

pretty much, but she is killing it

10:19

in this movie specifically. Like what she is trying

10:21

to, I guess what she's trying

10:23

to portray. It's funny that Kerry Elwes is in this

10:25

too, because he's also an inglorious bastard. So like he's

10:27

just going to be in everything, I guess. Also,

10:30

I want to shout out to Babs

10:32

Olison Mokken, who is in, he's a

10:35

jammis from Dune. And

10:37

I think he has like great screen presence,

10:40

a great like, just sense,

10:42

a great aura on screen. And

10:45

I loved watching him and I loved watching him

10:47

come up with things together with Isaac Gonzalez's character.

10:49

So I just love watching these people.

10:51

I think they're fun and entertaining. The movie

10:54

just kind of drags after a certain point. Maybe he could

10:56

have been punched up and tightened up and made more funnier

10:58

times, but I really enjoyed the

11:00

ride. Like I'm very glad to see Guy Ritchie

11:02

having, you know, success now after I think having

11:05

a kind of a quiet period for a while.

11:07

So yeah, it's good for him. I had a

11:09

lot of fun with this.

11:12

Is Kerry Elwes in a glorious bastard? I don't think that's

11:14

true, Devendra. He's

11:16

in Rebel Moon, part

11:18

two. Yes, he's in Rebel, I think you got that

11:20

confused with Rebel Moon, part two. Rebel

11:22

Moon, part two. No, I saw something in IMDB that

11:24

connected both of them. Maybe I'm thinking something else. I

11:26

don't I don't think he's in that movie. OK. Yeah.

11:30

But he was in Guy

11:32

Ritchie's last similar film,

11:34

Operation Fortune ruse de guerre as

11:36

well. Basically playing the same character.

11:40

A movie that still doesn't exist. By the way,

11:42

whenever we talk about the title of that movie,

11:44

we talk about like the plot of that movie.

11:46

I have watched that movie. I've watched that movie.

11:48

It has no residual presence in my brain. OK.

11:51

Ministry of Ungentumly Warfare. Let

11:56

me just say, Jeff Kanata, that.

12:00

The beginning of the movie opens with a phrase

12:02

based on a true story. Right. Now, one

12:04

of my favorite renditions of that phrase

12:07

is in, I think, David

12:09

O. Russell's American Hustle. Yep.

12:11

Uh, and it starts with the phrase, some

12:13

of this stuff actually happens. Uh,

12:17

and then I'm like, that's perfect. I love

12:19

that. Cause it's like acknowledging you made a bunch of

12:21

shit up. So whenever I see based

12:23

on a true story, that's literally just what I think

12:25

is same, same of this stuff actually happened. Yeah. I

12:27

actually take it literally. That said. I

12:30

agree with Jeff that when you show the actual

12:32

people at the end, you are making some claim

12:34

to veracity. Like if you hadn't done the thing

12:36

at the end, I would have been mostly okay

12:38

with Um, but yes, I

12:40

understand why you're bothered because at the end

12:42

they're like, and look, I was

12:44

a Gonzales is actually a much less attractive person in

12:47

real life. Look

12:49

how accurate we were with this movie. Right.

12:51

Right. It's, it's, it's a look at how

12:53

accurate situation. Um, and yeah, there were

12:55

a lot of, a lot of deviations,

12:57

but it's, that's not why. Uh,

13:00

I, you're doing the events in this movie.

13:03

This person went on to do this and

13:05

this. Right. I don't believe they did the

13:07

events in this movie. Like I really kill

13:09

like 50 dogs. He's a bow and arrow.

13:13

Really? What happened to that guy? Convinced

13:15

that's how it went down. Uh,

13:20

I had a lot of fun with this movie. I mean,

13:22

I think I tried not to think

13:25

too hard about it. It's interesting. Kind

13:28

of the approach that I took

13:30

to some of its

13:33

action scenes, right? Like there's multiple action

13:35

scenes in this movie of

13:37

just these guys mowing

13:39

down Nazis, like mowing

13:41

them down without thinking about it's like,

13:44

Oh, you know, uh, young

13:46

18 year old Nazis, same as like

13:48

45. They're all the same evil

13:51

Person. We're just mowing them down. The

13:53

Guns, by the way, like they have

13:55

like silence. They have unrealistically quiet guns.

13:57

Yeah. Like in real life. You

14:00

don't know when you see a silencer in a

14:02

movie. Like a silenced pistol in a movie. It.

14:05

Says what's lotta real life right?

14:07

And they didn't have modern silence

14:09

or technology when World War Two

14:12

was happening. so I have. Well,

14:14

as it's basically going in incognito

14:16

into Japanese call of Duty love

14:18

heavily heavily Nazi infested lairs. Mowing

14:21

down guys have no no one

14:23

to hear anything. right? Even

14:25

though they're using machine guns basically

14:28

or automatic weapons, I susan. And

14:31

I'm that bothered me more than like

14:33

the base of restore it was like

14:35

to leave until exactly what. Don't like

14:38

this? you know, like yeah, nothing that

14:40

I think. These. People

14:42

stole boats. I think that's the that

14:44

the saw the heart is happening. I'm

14:46

I'm your. I read several pieces like

14:49

the party's did happen. In apparently

14:51

I did happen the little crazier the

14:53

rescuing somebody from a Nazi base happened.

14:56

So. To be said, not

14:58

a single shot was actually fired, but I

15:00

am reading cohere one Nazi painted a bunch

15:02

of them were in the shower. the commandant

15:04

had a header here it on and they

15:06

all gave up immediately when they saw these

15:09

were five guys. that's how they rescue that

15:11

he said hilarious because of movie. What have

15:13

you view? Hundreds of people die? Yes, so

15:15

yes, nothing without as it as it happened

15:17

movie I think. Also like. The.

15:20

Movie is this. We're.

15:22

Like the get going I joined I joined the

15:25

movie. would recommend it's oh this is a pump

15:27

on the T and T on an afternoon while

15:29

you're doing errands in your house or not. not

15:31

Aaron's but like. You. Know cleaning your house

15:33

or something? It's a perfect movie the leave on and was.

15:36

Ah, But. I thought the movie

15:38

was little odd is just like the set

15:40

up like the movie opens with a vicious.

15:43

Set. Of killings. these guys are

15:45

african sociopath i think is what we

15:48

get like refund beginning perhaps more turned

15:50

this into sociopath i don't know who

15:52

are the real months you you might

15:54

a real would you call them i

15:56

don't know ungentlemanly you couldn't when could

15:59

you might see They belong to

16:01

some kind of group some organization of

16:03

some kind perhaps a ministry of some

16:05

sort that wage Something

16:08

okay anyway And

16:12

then the movie doesn't really like maintain that

16:14

momentum like I think it's sworn in a

16:16

couple of different directions Yeah, I'm a man

16:18

wants to be like hey, we're fun the

16:20

sociopathically just murdering these Nazis Endlessly

16:23

and then but also we want you to

16:25

take us seriously a little bit You know like think

16:27

it seriously look some of these things actually

16:29

happened You know

16:33

Yeah Some of these people like

16:35

were fighting for good stuff You know like I

16:38

think it just ends up stuck

16:40

between two different tones a little bit You

16:42

know it's a very the person I was

16:44

thinking by the way the villain till Shwagger

16:46

was in in glorious. Yes So

16:49

yes, it's kind of a the similarity there

16:51

That's a character that barely speaks in Inglourious

16:53

Basterds, but he's yeah, he's the main villain

16:55

in this one This will look like an

16:57

evil Nazi. Can you do that pill? Yeah?

17:00

the funny thing about Inglourious Basterds is

17:02

that it takes

17:04

place in what is distinctly an

17:06

alternate history and Yet

17:09

feels more like it could have happened

17:11

than this To

17:13

me right and also Inglourious Basterds doesn't open by

17:15

saying based on a true story right right what

17:17

else I'm saying But I mean it takes place

17:19

in World War two You

17:22

feel like that that movie like I

17:24

could kind of believe that that that

17:26

went down. It's better at emotional truth

17:28

Yeah, yeah, because it's also not like

17:30

a pure all-out action movie.

17:32

It is doing multiple things Yeah, right

17:35

this one tries to be a pure

17:37

all-out action movie occasionally. There's not that many

17:39

parties right There's a couple actions see there's one at the

17:41

beginning. There's one in the middle and then the final Sequences

17:44

a heist sequence that has some action that goes

17:46

on for a long time It does and there's

17:48

that high sequence actually like the

17:51

movie commits a crime though that I

17:53

think Is

17:56

nearly unforgivable which is you introduce

17:58

a character? Isaac and

18:00

Zalas's character who is apparently really

18:02

good at shooting things and then you as far

18:04

as I can tell like basically never have her

18:06

shoot anything if I recall correctly That character is

18:09

very strange Yeah, she also doesn't end up actually

18:11

doing much right the whole point of her was

18:13

to sort of like seduce The

18:15

the leader the lead nazi, but also that

18:17

doesn't really amount to much like doesn't work

18:19

out information Well, even if it doesn't work

18:21

out, it's like what is the goal? Is

18:23

she trying to get information from him to

18:25

me was unclear like what what the thing

18:27

they were trying to do there was? Yeah,

18:29

she she was trying to keep him occupied

18:31

while they do their stuff The

18:33

thing that I mean her efficacy comes in

18:36

Finding out the fact that yes, they have reinforced

18:39

the hull. That's so that that was good Yeah,

18:41

if she hadn't been there They would never have

18:43

found that out and they would have failed So

18:45

the train sequence by the way, like it's not

18:48

just the action Like I love the the stealing

18:50

the briefcase in the train sequence like moments of

18:52

like tension there like that's that's good That was

18:54

cool, but yeah, yeah, I really do want to

18:57

reinforce what you said dave it is Bizarre

19:00

how much time and effort is

19:03

put into hammering home the fact

19:05

that this chick can shoot literally

19:07

any weapon, right? Very

19:09

very well. Yes. She's a marked person.

19:11

She is incredible with any weapon that

19:13

you give her And

19:16

that never comes into play never comes into play again It's

19:19

almost like having a movie Where

19:22

you gather together? People

19:24

from around the galaxy with

19:26

each with a specific set of skills and then

19:28

those skills and then they all they do is

19:30

harvest wheat And they never come into

19:32

play Anyway,

19:36

it's like we are really they really want us

19:38

to know how often she could have gotten some

19:40

kill shots at the end She doesn't do anything.

19:43

Yeah With that skill, I mean, you

19:45

know, it's very strange. She has that only she pulls the

19:47

gun out of her crotch Uh,

19:49

you know, well, well, I guess that's kind of the thing,

19:51

right? That is the sort of like she can point blank

19:53

not like she can oh, yeah But

19:56

that requires zero skills at all. Yeah,

19:59

she was right there. He was like

20:01

three, literally three feet away point blank. Right? So

20:03

she got right in the head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

20:05

A lot of great sequences and a lot of,

20:08

I mean, I think it's just the actors involved

20:10

too. Like, um, sometimes that works

20:12

out for Guy Ritchie. Sometimes it doesn't. I don't

20:14

think Aubrey Plaza worked out too well for Guy

20:16

Ritchie in a, what? Operation

20:18

fortune. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

20:21

appreciated Aubrey Plaza trying to do something different in that

20:23

movie. You know, like that's not her typical role. She

20:25

doesn't usually play the guy in the chair, you know,

20:27

I think she, uh, she had some comments. Was

20:29

that, was that the comments she was making about British

20:32

directors not being able to work with them or like

20:34

just not understanding what they wanted at times. Um,

20:36

but yeah, yeah. If this movie

20:39

was a little tighter, I feel like we

20:41

would be even more raving over it. I

20:43

think the craziest thing about the casting in

20:45

this movie is that Henry

20:47

Cavill is in it and he's not

20:49

the muscle guy. Yeah. You have somebody

20:51

double the size of Henry Cavill. Amazing.

20:56

Henry Cavill keeps

20:58

his shirt on the entire movie. Right. Right.

21:00

It's like, I can't compete against

21:03

this. TV Richard is,

21:05

is, uh, I'm

21:07

not even going to just say fitness goals. He

21:09

is also just like man goals. Like I don't

21:12

know if you saw his interview in Hollywood reporter,

21:14

but he seems to be a very well balanced

21:16

individual. Like just a guy who, uh,

21:18

I, I, I

21:21

aspire to be like Alan Richardson. And she

21:23

put that out there. All right. Every level,

21:26

every level. Yeah. Every level. So, uh, and

21:28

I don't love his

21:30

performance in this movie. I think he's like pretty,

21:33

I'm going to say, I think he'd never

21:35

really settled on an accent in this movie.

21:37

Like he kind of was

21:39

very exaggerated at first, very Swedish in the opening.

21:41

And then it's like, well, they're doing a fake

21:43

action in the beginning. No, but then yes, but

21:46

like then throughout it's, it felt like it kind

21:48

of, I could never nail down what he was,

21:50

what his accent was now. Maybe that's just me,

21:53

but yeah. Um, well, Hey,

21:55

he's, he's a lot of fun. Uh, also like,

21:57

Hey, if we need a new saber tooth. in

22:00

an X-Men movie. It damn well better be Alan

22:02

Richardson. You don't even need to add much makeup.

22:04

Like he's just a big dude. He

22:06

can kick Wolverine's ass, apparently. I'm just glad

22:08

Henry Golding is still out there working. Guy

22:11

Ritchie seems to like him. He was in

22:13

The Gentleman as well and very big part

22:15

for him from a guy who was like

22:17

leading in a bunch of films too. But

22:19

yeah. Yeah, I mean,

22:22

yes, it is true. Snake Eyes has come, has

22:24

fallen a long way since being, you know, headlining

22:26

a movie. I mean, the lead of Crazy Rich

22:28

Asians, right? Like I want him to be more

22:30

leading and stuff, but it is fun to see

22:32

him here. He's cool about this movie. About

22:36

Rory Kinnear under tons of Churchill

22:38

makeup. This is one of

22:41

the worst Churchill impressions I've ever seen.

22:43

I don't know about you guys, but

22:45

I thought it was actually the worst part of

22:47

it. Worse than the Silence,

22:50

automatic weapons, worse than the, you know,

22:53

the end credits and shows that we have.

22:55

Having Ian Fleming be in part of the

22:57

mission, which was apparently a thing, but not

23:00

like so directly involved. Rory Kinnear, enormously talented

23:02

actor. It's obvious. It's just

23:04

Rory Kinnear with prosthetics on doing a

23:06

terrible thing. Doing this voice. Doing this voice. Guy

23:09

Ritchie was like, I saw the movie Men. And

23:11

I think Rory Kinnear can do it. Really? If

23:13

he just spoke normally, the movie would be about

23:15

5% better. Like if he just spoke. That's not

23:17

how Churchill spoke. That's

23:19

more like a Nixon joke. I know I'm doing Nixon right now.

23:23

I'm not a crook. Yeah. Anyway.

23:26

All right. Any

23:28

other thoughts on Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare? It's

23:30

a fun time. It's a fun time. It's

23:32

a fun time at the movie. Yeah, I

23:34

did not love it, but I had a good

23:36

enough time that I would recommend it. Better

23:38

than Rebel Moon part two. Anything

23:41

is better than Rebel Moon part two. This

23:43

movie has,

23:46

I think, an extremely high Rotten Tomatoes score.

23:48

It has a score of like 75. 72%.

23:53

But I think this is one of those things where

23:55

you see the weakness of the Rotten Tomatoes score happen.

23:58

Where everyone just... kind of liked

24:00

it. I think it's kind of, it's, I don't think there's

24:02

a lot of people that feel like really strongly about it.

24:04

Yeah, you can't. I will tell

24:07

you what's better than this movie, The

24:09

Gentlemen TV Show. Yeah,

24:12

that's true. That

24:16

is more fun. Way

24:18

better, way more fun, way more inventive, way cooler.

24:21

And this movie's fine, but it's, I

24:23

don't know. It's all with some good set pieces.

24:25

Like as far as like, I think I Richie

24:28

Sink far lower in some of his other films.

24:30

That's true. Aladdin, anybody? We

24:32

don't talk about Aladdin. We don't talk about

24:34

Aladdin. One thing that is amazing, I mean,

24:36

I've commented on it multiple times during the

24:38

main show, but like his output

24:41

is really

24:43

astonishing, actually. Like he made

24:46

two movies that came out in 2023. He made Wrath of Man, he made two

24:48

movies in 2019. 2021 was Wrath of Man. This

24:53

movie's coming out. He's got another movie called In the

24:55

Great coming out next year, again

24:57

with Henry Cavill, Jake Zilla Hall, Isaac Gonzales.

24:59

Love to see it. Love to see

25:01

it. Yeah. Yeah. He's always working and some

25:05

of the movies hit more than others, but also

25:07

this movie I think opened the best out of

25:09

his last three movies. So it

25:11

didn't do well. It's not like a hit, but

25:14

yeah, I mean, I just appreciate

25:16

it. He's not, he's like, he's become

25:18

oddly one of the

25:21

journeyman directors, right? Like he's become, that's not who

25:23

we thought he would be when he started his

25:26

career. But he's like, one of the guys was

25:28

like, he's just consistently working, putting out solid, not

25:30

great, not amazing, not terrible work. He has a

25:32

thing. He has a thing that he tends to

25:35

go for. He has the British gangster stuff. Yeah.

25:37

What is that thing? The thing is like manly

25:40

men being men. That's kind of like having, yeah,

25:42

that's a lot of things about dudes. That's a

25:44

lot of what he does these days, right? Kind

25:46

of taking over the Tony Scott mantle a little

25:48

bit, I'd say. So I don't know. Like, slightly

25:51

more grounded Matthew Vaughn.

25:53

Yeah. Don't say that

25:56

though. Because Matthew

25:58

Vaughn started as a slightly more grounded. Guy

26:00

Ritchie is the thing you remember layer cake. So

26:02

yeah, yeah, I don't know guys if you put

26:04

if you put up Matthew

26:07

Vaughn's filmography next to Guy Ritchie's I would

26:09

choose Guy Ritchie's 10 out of 10 easily

26:11

easily It's it's such a more

26:13

I have a harder time with that choice. It's

26:15

such a more calm

26:19

Cohesive filmography like

26:21

I know again words

26:24

wrong words, but kick-ass

26:26

Kingsman X-Men X-Men.

26:31

Okay first he won a lot of credit I

26:33

love started a flare cake is very good like

26:35

Matthew Vaughn has far fewer films But I think

26:37

a better batting average, but he's gotten worse like

26:39

where they are today I'm more interested in what

26:42

Guy Ritchie is doing compared to you Absolutely for

26:44

those who don't know by the way Matthew Vaughn

26:46

and Guy Ritchie used to be like producing partners

26:48

They used to Matthew Vaughn was his producer That's

26:51

I'm bringing it up because it was long enough

26:53

ago that people might not even remember we get

26:55

a reiterate Context here but when I

26:57

had when I had my contentious interview with Matthew Vaughn

26:59

I was like so any any thoughts like would you

27:01

be would you be do you think a

27:03

guy Ritchie would end up producing? Anything you're doing and

27:05

he laughed me off. He's like Guy

27:09

Ritchie's not producing anything Richie

27:12

directed lock socket to spark where I was Matthew

27:14

Vaughn produced that movie. I think he also produced that

27:17

snatch. Yeah Yeah, and so they had like this partnership

27:19

and then they went their own ways cuz Matthew Vaughn's

27:21

like I want to direct movies, too And

27:24

so and now they have quite different filmographies.

27:26

I would still like Yeah,

27:30

there are a lot of misses in the guy Ritchie, you

27:32

know Interesting

27:35

is like for a while Matthew Vaughn.

27:37

I'm sorry Guy Ritchie was kind of

27:39

in director jail like yeah, he made

27:42

Swept away. He made Revolver

27:44

and then rock and roll and none of

27:46

those movies did particularly well Yeah, I remember

27:48

none of them were like like rock and

27:50

roll was the closest thing To

27:53

something that was like moderately successful. But like yeah, he

27:55

made revolver in 2005. That was a disaster, right? It

27:58

wasn't until man from uncle Were he really?

28:00

Well, no, no, Sherlock Holmes really. Oh yeah.

28:03

That movie made $524 million

28:05

worldwide. Like

28:07

everything. That was your favorite. Your favorite adaptation. Your

28:09

favorite. Sherlock Holmes ever made. That's actually a knock

28:12

against him for me now. I don't know about

28:14

favorite, but guys, I

28:17

don't even need to make the argument because H. Bomberguy,

28:19

the guy who did that four hour plagiarism video, he

28:21

already made a three hour long video about why Benedict

28:25

Cumberbatch Sherlock Holmes sucks. So

28:28

I don't need to even make the argument because it's already been

28:30

done before. I think I'm gonna take Matthew

28:33

Vaughn in this. What? I'm talking about

28:35

overall. Yeah.

28:37

Defend it. Overall. Those

28:39

are good movies. I love Snatch. I love Lock

28:41

Stock. I think the Gentlemen

28:44

TV show is great. I don't think there's anything in

28:46

the entire Guy Ritchie oeuvre that

28:49

is to me as good as either Kickass or

28:51

Stardust. Ooh.

28:55

I love those movies. Those are great movies. Kickass,

28:58

the first Kickass is so good, so

29:00

fun. And

29:03

Stardust is awesome. I

29:05

think you have a point if you look at the entire, if

29:08

we're taking a mean average of their works, you

29:11

have a point, Jeff, but if we're looking at today,

29:14

as these artists, as they exist today, I

29:16

feel like Guy Ritchie has found a really interesting

29:19

groove that he's come back to, whereas Matthew

29:21

Vaughn is finally. I think they're trending in different

29:23

directions. Yeah, I do. Yeah. I

29:25

don't even agree with the mean average.

29:29

I think mean average, I think Matthew Vaughn is

29:31

still higher. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm

29:33

saying. Mean average. Guy Ritchie is still higher. That's

29:35

what I mean. I would use Guy Ritchie all

29:37

the time over Matthew Vaughn. You

29:40

just listed, he has not made many movies,

29:42

and you've just listed a few that were

29:44

outright failures. Okay, okay. Let me get into

29:46

it. Lock Stock, Two Spong Bros.

29:48

I literally watched it this

29:51

last week. Literally pressed

29:53

play on Lock Stock, and you spoke about

29:55

it last week. Skinny Jason Statham, who would

29:57

have thought. That is a good movie. Snatch,

30:02

also incredible, like just stylistically,

30:04

it's really out there. The

30:07

use of music in that movie is

30:09

like Tarantino-esque, like level, and how good

30:11

it is. Then he made three pretty

30:13

bad movies. Swept Away,

30:15

Revolver, and Rock and Roll, none of those were very good.

30:19

Then he made Sherlock Holmes and Sherlock Holmes Game of Shadows. Those

30:22

are great. A lot of fun.

30:24

A lot of fun. Debatable. Man

30:26

from Humble. A blast. King Arthur, Legend

30:28

of the Sword. Terrible, but friend

30:30

of the show Danny Sine seems to like that movie. Aladdin,

30:33

hate it. Thanks,

30:35

I hate it. The Gentleman, not great.

30:37

Okay, Wrath of Man. That

30:40

movie holds a special place in my heart because not only is it

30:42

good, but it's the first

30:44

movie I saw in a theater after the

30:46

pandemic began. Really? My wife rented

30:48

a theater so we could go see

30:50

Wrath of Man together. I

30:53

remember seeing that movie and being like, movies are great, guys.

30:57

Art movies are a beautiful art form. And

30:59

then Guy Rich is the Covenant, really solid. No,

31:01

no, no, no. You're skipping Operation

31:03

Forstion, Rose de Gerre. No, no, no, it

31:05

happens after that. I'm looking at,

31:07

I'm looking at... Oh, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. Operation Forstion,

31:10

Rose de Gerre, pretty bad. At

31:12

worst... You're gonna start keeping a score a

31:14

little bit. At worst, a nothing film. At worst, a

31:17

nothing film. It's not like actively terrible. But

31:19

it has no residual presence in the brain. The

31:22

Guy Rich is the Covenant, great. Ministry of

31:24

Admittedly Warfare, fun, solid. Okay,

31:26

so now

31:28

that I say it all like that... Yeah. The

31:31

high... Mean Average! The high highs

31:34

are probably not as high as

31:37

a layer cake or a first class.

31:39

Dude, look at this. The layer cake,

31:42

Stardust, Kickass, X-Men, first class. Four

31:45

bangers. Bangers. First four

31:47

movies. Now, trending down, because I

31:49

think Kingsman... Kingsman for one is good. First Kingsman

31:51

is awesome. Second Kingsman,

31:53

less so. The Kingsman, Argyle,

31:56

terrible. So trending

31:58

the wrong direction. First

32:00

four movies boom

32:02

boom boom boom boom his batting average is higher because

32:05

he has fewer from films in general so I Still

32:08

would take because I'm less angry

32:10

when I watch Guy Ritchie's movie like

32:13

like well, he wants movies are like

32:16

Baffling and upsetting something just like I

32:18

don't know if you've seen the Kingsman, but that's just

32:21

a weird Movie the

32:23

Kingsman the Kingsman, right? I have to

32:25

do we reviewed it. Yeah, I

32:27

didn't see it No, we didn't you guys do that. We

32:29

didn't review it. No, did you see the

32:31

Kingsman with? Race finds this

32:34

finds. Yes. There's a whole flashback sequence at

32:36

the beginning where he is I've

32:38

definitely watched this movie Okay, you watch never we

32:40

never review it. Okay, I talked about it I

32:42

remember being the only person talking about it on

32:44

the show. No, I I took my wife

32:46

to see this we watched it together And

32:51

you love the world the World War two crazy assassination

32:55

thing attempt that happens at the beginning I

33:00

Saw this whole movie that

33:02

there's a there's like a Rasputin

33:06

is in it. There's a fucking fight scene

33:08

with the rest of you. Okay. Okay. I

33:11

don't think I've ever heard you talk about this movie

33:13

Jeff. Yeah, I've never heard you talk about this movie

33:15

of the podcast. So why a hundred percent watching it.

33:17

Okay. Okay. Well, anyway, it was bad All

33:24

right Kingsman and Argyle

33:26

are really bad trends because it's it's

33:28

and the fact that you're talking about

33:30

like more Argyle movies, right? I think

33:33

I'm to King's and to was not

33:35

great I like it was not great, but it was

33:37

not awful. It was not

33:39

Argyle They were definitely like red flags

33:41

in Kingsman one or Kingsman two and

33:43

that way Elton John's flying kick split,

33:45

right? No,

33:47

no, what is fascinating though? Jeff is like The

33:52

high highs for me are different than the high

33:54

highs for you like you're like stardust and

33:56

kick ass I'm like layer cake and X-Men first

33:58

class. There's still high Yeah, I

34:00

like you know, I just don't like them as much as starters

34:02

and kick ass and I think of

34:05

those four I May

34:07

only be able to find one guy Richie movie

34:09

that I would put even in that Pantheon,

34:12

like maybe a snatch or a lock stock Lives

34:16

there for me, but nothing else in his oeuvre like

34:19

is as good as any one of those four movies

34:21

I don't think I'm also

34:23

gonna put out there that lock stock is too smart

34:25

browse and snatch help to inaugurate a Whole

34:30

Yeah, the British gangster concept

34:33

right agree Now well

34:35

the new way positive for cinema or not

34:37

is like up to you to decide British

34:39

gangster films existed for decades before those No

34:41

more. Yeah, but like this kind of like

34:44

rapid editing. Yeah, like the guy Richard is

34:46

I'll write Yeah, he has his own side.

34:48

Yes, there's very few directors that you can

34:50

you know Tarantino you can call something Tarantino

34:52

esque Yeah, almost say something is guy Richie

34:54

as a hundred you can't you go it

34:57

introduces like gangster characters, right? So it is

34:59

the Matthew Vaughn style. I

35:01

think we're beginning to see it. I definitely he has one. Yeah

35:04

Yeah, Matthew Matthew Vaughn style is

35:06

the scene in heat where Al

35:09

Pacino says she's got a great

35:11

ass I

35:17

do think it's it's whatever that ice

35:19

skating scene was at the end I'll

35:21

yes. Yes. Yes. That's true. That's a

35:23

better way. We cannot let him be

35:25

fully unleashed Much we

35:27

can't take all right. This has been

35:29

fun chat though guys. Yeah, so but

35:32

at the end of the day, I am still You

35:35

know it desert I'm here in your heart you

35:37

are guy Ritchie desert island. Yeah, if I had

35:39

to take desert island movies It'd

35:42

be probably Guy

35:44

Ritchie movie here's here's here's

35:46

my Capitulation,

35:48

uh-huh Whose

35:52

next film do I think I'll like more

35:54

I think

35:56

you're gonna like I were too next. Yeah I'm

36:02

more confident in the next film from Guy Ritchie than

36:04

I do in the next film from Matthew Vonn. Yes.

36:08

I think we've reached a good conclusion here. Alright,

36:10

that's it. That was an episode of the Filmcast

36:12

After Dark. To hear the rest of the episodes,

36:15

sign up to be a patron at patreon.com/filmpodcast.