0:04

Hello everyone

0:08

and welcome to the Filmcast,

0:10

a podcast about movies. I'm

0:23

David Chen and yeah I'm into Dune,

0:25

Dune 2 screenings of this movie this

0:28

week. Joining me today is David

0:30

your heart-o-war. Check out my new book, The

0:32

Ben and Jesrit Voice for Parents. Go to

0:34

bed! Don't touch that. And

0:37

Jeff Kanata. In the

0:39

words of the Emperor, there's so

0:41

many dunes. I

0:46

hate you Jeff. Those

0:49

are of course all vague and oblique references to the

0:51

fact. Blackis, so

0:53

many dunes. How

0:56

many dunes are

0:58

on this crazy planet? That's

1:03

a lot of dunes. I

1:07

don't think the Emperor would really be saying

1:09

that though. I think the Emperor would know

1:11

how many dunes there are. That's the issue.

1:13

What do you... Tell me, what do you...

1:15

about these dunes? There's

1:18

so many. Also

1:22

apparently very repetitive. This

1:25

Emperor... I count

1:27

them one, two, three dunes. It

1:36

doesn't get funnier the more you do it. It

1:39

really does. For me it does. But the fact

1:41

that it doesn't get funnier is what is funny

1:43

about it. Alright.

1:52

Those are of course all vague and

1:54

oblique references to the fact that today on

1:56

the podcast we're going to be reviewing Dune

1:58

Part 2. We got... filmmaker Vincenzo

2:00

Natale joining us. Wow. Wow. That

2:03

conversation. Yes. Um, that's really cool.

2:05

It's very cool. I agree. Also,

2:07

it's great that Jeff is acting

2:09

surprised about that because

2:12

we already recorded that segment. But

2:14

this movie, this podcast magic, folks,

2:16

is, um, yeah, at this moment

2:18

in time, you don't know that

2:20

we've already recorded that. And so,

2:22

uh, it's amazing. It's amazing. Anyway,

2:25

uh, today on the podcast, got, uh,

2:27

one big monumental piece of film news

2:29

that we want to discuss and then

2:31

some, what we've been watching lots to

2:33

discuss there before we get to weekly

2:36

plugs. And then our conversation about doing

2:38

to, uh, find more episodes of this

2:40

podcast at the filmcast.com email us at

2:42

slash [email protected]. And I

2:44

want to point out we're posting regular video

2:46

clips on our Instagram channel at instagram.com at

2:49

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2:51

filmcast pod. Uh, be sure

2:53

to find us on those channels. And

2:55

also we're on tiktok at film, uh, at

2:57

the filmcast. Check us out there

3:00

and, uh, see us talking about all the

3:02

stuff that you hear us talking about right

3:04

here on the filmcast. Of course, patreon.com/film podcast,

3:07

a film podcast where you can sign up

3:09

for ad free episodes and

3:11

exclusive after dark on this last week's episode of

3:13

the after dark. We

3:15

discussed dune part one. Also,

3:17

uh, next week we're going

3:19

to be discussing David Lynch's dune. And also

3:22

if you're a patron at any tier, you

3:24

are, you got to hear our dune to review just

3:27

a little bit early. Uh, we

3:29

try to do that whenever we have a chance to

3:31

do that. So, uh, yes, patreon.com size film podcasts. It's

3:33

where all the cool kids are and where all the

3:35

cool benefits are. Uh, thanks to everyone who

3:37

makes this podcast possible quick

3:40

correction from last week's episode of the podcast.

3:43

We talked about driveway dolls last week, a movie

3:45

that all of us really liked all of us

3:47

had a great time with. Yeah. Uh,

3:49

and we referred to the main

3:51

actress, uh, one of the main

3:53

actresses in that movie, uh, but,

3:55

uh, mispronounced her name, Margaret quality is

3:58

the name of the actress. Marker

4:00

quality kept saying quailie. That's my

4:02

bad quality rhymes with Wally. A

4:04

few people wrote in about that I've always thought quailie too.

4:07

So yeah, it's me. Sorry about that.

4:09

But yeah, Margaret quality. Thanks for the corrections We

4:11

always try to be accurate with our pronunciation and

4:13

facts but anyway, you

4:16

know, we have a text thread between the three

4:18

of us and We

4:22

don't text each other all the time but whenever

4:24

something notable happens We'll throw each other a text

4:26

and Jeff you sent the text this week with

4:29

some very exciting news And I think you

4:31

know and I will say in general

4:35

Jeff Kanata does not necessarily originate the

4:37

movie news You know like yeah, just

4:39

cuz there's very little in the movie

4:42

news that really gets Jeff's

4:44

blood pumping But this is monumental. I save

4:46

it. Yeah, yes, it matters to me the

4:49

most So What

4:51

was this piece of film news that you saw this

4:53

week that you needed to share with us? I shared

4:55

it and I said we have to talk about this

4:57

on the show and now we're talking about and I

4:59

agree 100% that we have to talk about it.

5:01

Okay, so incredible news incredible

5:04

news one of my favorite movies

5:06

as a kid movie franchises and He's

5:09

getting remade and

5:12

that franchise is Naked Gun. Mm-hmm.

5:14

Mm-hmm And the news this

5:16

week is that Naked Gun remake is is

5:18

a go with

5:20

Liam Neeson in the

5:22

Leslie Nielsen role

5:25

the main character and it's

5:27

gonna be Directed by some

5:29

very funny people who make very funny

5:32

movies Whose

5:34

names I not have in front of you right now Let's

5:38

make a lonely island guys. You're referring to Akiva

5:40

Shafer. Yeah, thank you I was I just wanted

5:42

to go to Eva Goldsmith and I knew that

5:44

was wrong It's

5:47

gonna be directed by Akiva Shafer

5:49

super talented director. Yeah and like

5:51

kind of the Lonely Island persuasion

5:54

That's the exact combination. I want to hear

5:57

you're talking about Naked Gun. Yeah. Yeah The

6:00

most recent thing he directed was the Chip and

6:03

Dale Rescue Rangers movie, which I think is brilliant

6:05

Yeah, pop star pop star never stop never stop

6:07

and still one of the funniest movies I've ever

6:09

seen really that ship and dale's movie is Brilliant.

6:13

It is so subversive and weird

6:15

and funny and smart and

6:18

I am just a very confident

6:21

that The spirit

6:23

of naked gun will carry forward and

6:25

I think Liam Neeson is a pretty

6:27

inspired choice here. Mm-hmm You

6:30

know even from the Lego movies, you know

6:32

where he played Sort

6:34

of absurd new faced cop that

6:36

would yeah Yeah,

6:39

he has his happy voice is so

6:42

weird. Yeah strange

6:44

there was another movie where he I Can't

6:47

remember what movie it is. But he's like I sent you guys

6:49

a clip of Ted There's

6:53

one movie where he is sitting in

6:55

a room and he just doesn't understand I Think

6:58

you're thinking of he did a cameo on extras

7:00

the Ricky Gervais Either

7:03

way his deadpan and that's what you need right

7:05

you need. Yes for naked gun You

7:08

have to have somebody that is funny but

7:10

is doing it completely straight Mm-hmm, and

7:13

I think Liam Neeson is is is

7:15

a brilliant brilliant choice for this. I

7:18

Completely agree. I'm super psyched about

7:21

this movie Leslie

7:23

Nielsen the RIP I'm

7:25

gonna say this I love those naked gun movies. I

7:27

watch them so many times. I love them. Love them

7:29

Yeah, I know what first two I forget

7:31

about the third one 30. You don't know Yeah,

7:35

the the third naked gun movie is called

7:37

naked gun 33

7:40

and a third and a third. Yes the final insult And

7:44

that is that was just a very confusing

7:46

title still is according to the Wikipedia page

7:48

Absolutely 33 and a

7:50

third in the title is a reference to the

7:52

number of revolutions per minute at which LP phonographs

7:54

records play And the film was originally

7:56

going to be titled the naked gun 33 and a third

7:58

just for the record, but

8:01

was changed after the studio felt the audiences would not

8:03

get the joke. But then end quote,

8:05

but then they just still titled it. Nicki Gunn 33

8:07

and a third. So

8:11

now the third 33, there's more threes.

8:13

There's more threes in the title. Well, there's more

8:15

threes in the title. And I always took it

8:17

as that's how you divide three

8:21

into 100. You know, so like,

8:23

I don't know, it's like the remainder of

8:25

the infinite three that goes on forever. Three, three,

8:28

three, three, three, three, three, three. Why? Why not

8:30

just make it three though? Because it's goofy and

8:32

silly and we will affect on what's two and

8:34

a half, right? Yeah, 33 and a third. Yeah.

8:36

Okay, that's true. I forgot about the

8:38

two and a half. The trend. Yeah. But yeah,

8:41

I love those movies. I mean, I, one

8:44

of the movies I think is excellent that not enough people have

8:46

seen is the 1984 film top

8:48

secret. The

8:50

sucker directed by Jim Eber

8:52

and David Zucker and Jerry Zucker. And, and

8:55

what's remarkable about the airplane and those

8:57

movies is often

8:59

they would build a set just

9:02

for one joke, right? They would

9:04

build an entire set or have

9:06

an entire actor or character just

9:08

for one joke. And we

9:10

just don't really see that too much anymore, because it's

9:13

expensive to build sets and they do it with CG

9:15

or and, and just comedies in general aren't doing very

9:17

well in theaters. And so they don't make too many

9:19

of these movies. Here's what I hope for

9:21

this movie is that it's not rated R. I,

9:25

because those movies were beloved to me as

9:27

a kid and I would

9:30

watch them to the point of memorizing them. Yeah.

9:32

And I want that for my

9:34

kids. Like I want, I think, you know,

9:36

my kid seven, maybe a little young, but

9:38

at a certain point I want there to

9:41

be a naked gun type, goofy,

9:44

absurd, brilliantly

9:46

funny movie for him to obsess about.

9:49

And his sister as well. I, I,

9:52

I'm very excited about this. Indeed.

9:55

Indeed. I feel the

9:57

same way. Do any fond memories of the naked gun? Is this, is

9:59

this something you're resonates with you as much as I

10:02

don't know why but yeah I certainly watch those

10:04

movies a lot as a kid I think they

10:06

were just on repeat for a while and

10:08

you know we had very limited content guys we didn't know I have

10:11

unlimited streaming to go to

10:13

the video store was a trek for

10:15

some reason these things kept playing on the channels

10:17

I had and they were hilarious yeah yeah

10:20

I will say there were a lot of jokes

10:22

I didn't understand when I was happy yes and

10:24

then when you get older it's like wow beaver

10:26

yeah thank you I just had it stuffed

10:28

yesterday and you want

10:31

your kids to be into this job interesting interesting

10:33

well I but that stuff goes

10:35

over here like if they do you know

10:37

I blame the joke like what is nice

10:39

beaver me dad no you don't need to

10:41

be ridiculous that she then out of frame

10:43

pulls down a stuffed beaver like as a

10:45

kid that's enough of gristy exactly yeah it's

10:47

just like oh that's weird that's weird and

10:49

random very weird that's beavers yeah I

10:52

don't think there's another layer to

10:54

that rag you don't think oh

10:57

he's complimenting her taxidermy hilarious yes yes

10:59

I would love to just see the

11:01

lonely island guys kind of do this

11:04

style of movie though like top secret

11:06

is so good that's the one with

11:08

the underwater fight right just like

11:10

things things we had never seen before I believe

11:13

that's the one hmm but

11:16

yeah they would build sets they would do

11:18

crazy elaborate things just for one joke yeah

11:20

let's bring that back huge elaborately choreographed dance

11:22

dance sequence just for like one visual gag

11:25

and if there's anyone who kind of knows the

11:27

spirit of that I do think it's looks

11:30

like a Kiva shaper and so I'm top

11:32

figure but we had go look this up

11:34

if you don't remember this but there was

11:37

an underwater bar fight which I think is

11:39

one of the most like elaborately produced things

11:41

it is funny but it's also like

11:43

people have to hold their breath for

11:45

that whole like action sequence

11:47

that's just wild you know that that's one of

11:50

my favorite movies of that ill that like not

11:52

very many people have seen but it's still widely

11:54

available you can go buy it right now strongly

11:56

recommend top-secret Jeff we're gonna say I

11:58

was gonna say that I

12:01

may be able to come up with another example if I can

12:03

give him some time, but just off the

12:05

top of my head, one of the reasons I think this

12:08

is a great talent project

12:10

pairing is that it feels like

12:16

Pop Star Never Stop Never Stop In

12:19

is the closest we've had

12:21

to a naked gun type movie in

12:23

the long time. Right, where they write

12:25

songs that were just like one joke,

12:27

elaborate song with dance sequence for just

12:29

one joke. But even like

12:31

that title just feels like a naked gun title. Do

12:35

you guys ever watch the police squad on which the naked one

12:37

is the base? Of course. I

12:40

never really caught those. They were never really available. I

12:42

watch the movies. Low budget

12:44

versions of the same thing. There's

12:49

like a shootout in police squad where they're

12:51

like two inches from each other and they're

12:53

both behind cover. So funny.

12:57

Good stuff. So Naked Gun Remake

12:59

with Liam Neeson coming out on July 18th, 2025.

13:03

So not too long to wait. Also Paramount

13:05

announced other titles coming out. One big one

13:08

is the follow up to Teenage Mutant Ninja

13:10

Turtles Mutant Mayhem October of 2026. So

13:13

that should be fun as well. I do want

13:15

to say it is good to see Neeson just like

13:18

do Liam Neeson. Do something

13:20

a little different. You know he's

13:22

been doing his like Take N' Ask action movies for

13:24

so long and I feel like maybe even he's getting

13:26

a little bored with them. So yeah, this is cool.

13:29

I mean, to be fair, I don't think he's going to really play a

13:31

different character. I think he will be dead then. He's not, but it will

13:33

be dead then. Yeah, he's going to leave Pope fun at it. I

13:36

think of his Ted clip all the time. I don't

13:38

know if you guys saw him in, I think it

13:40

was the final of the last season of Atlanta, but

13:42

that thing where he had a cameo and he sort

13:44

of like joked about his own stupid thing about

13:47

his own racist thoughts when he was younger.

13:50

It's a whole thing, but he can make fun of himself,

13:52

which is kind of key to all this. Indeed.

13:55

Anyway, that's just one piece of film we

13:57

wanted to mention right off the top of the show. Let's

14:00

take a quick break for a sponsor, we'll be back with

14:02

more and what we'll be watching right after this. Anyway,

14:30

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looking, but I can't do it

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16:02

C A S T. All

16:05

right, David, your hardware. What did you want to this week?

16:08

This week, guys, I watched a show

16:10

where an outsider is transported

16:13

to a whole new environment is

16:15

shown the ways of a different

16:17

class of people who use cool

16:19

ass weapons, uh, you know, uh,

16:22

cool swords. And there's a lot

16:24

of political intrigue involved guys. Uh,

16:27

but enough about dune two. Let's

16:30

talk about Shogun. Boom goes the

16:32

dynamite. Love it, Devin. Great. Shogun's very

16:34

good. Yes. Uh,

16:37

Shogun, the new series on Hulu FX based

16:39

off of the novel by James Clavell. Uh,

16:42

it debuted this week, first two episodes. This

16:45

show effing rocks. Absolutely.

16:48

It is really, really good. Uh, it

16:50

is the most excited I've been about

16:52

a television show since Game of Thrones.

16:54

Basically. It's basically, it is basically the

16:56

game of Thrones formula, but, uh, so

16:58

this, this is, it

17:00

is an adaptation of the book. There was a mini

17:02

series before, right? I remember that whole thing like happening

17:04

back in the day. Um, but

17:06

this one's co-created by Justin Marks, who's a writer.

17:08

One of your favorites, I believe. One of my

17:10

favorites. He did counterpart, loved

17:13

counterpart. Uh, also like got

17:15

a story credit on Top Gun Maverick. Like I

17:17

just loved him as a TV writer. Also the

17:19

writer of Street Fighter of the Legend of Chun-Li.

17:22

So we all contain multitudes.

17:24

Okay. Um, but yeah, this

17:26

thing, this thing is just like, it is

17:28

a big adaptation of the book. It is

17:31

filled with political intrigue. It is like

17:33

a, just a gorgeous

17:36

like star turn for Hiryuki Sonata.

17:39

Um, if you like Game of Thrones, if you

17:41

like that sort of, uh, that sort of thing

17:43

of like, there's a big story going on. There's

17:45

so many elements, um, being told here. There's a

17:47

lot of characters to keep track of, but

17:50

it's all told in a very, like, I

17:53

think specific and a very, uh, very

17:55

intriguing way. I freaking love the show,

17:57

but I'm also kind of a. I

17:59

Feel like I'm a Mark for

18:01

it. because I am interested in Japanese

18:03

history, it's something I've studied quite a

18:06

bit. I'm I think this is just

18:08

like with combines a lotta things I

18:10

like a lot. It's sudden very specific

18:13

era where Japanese were. Japan was like

18:15

not quite opened up. but having your

18:17

special relationship with a Portuguese traders

18:19

in the Catholic church. There's religious

18:21

intrigue. here. there's political intrigue. there's cool.

18:24

Sword fights is really interesting characters.

18:26

I feel like this is just like

18:28

fantastic tell a person feels. Like I'm

18:30

Sometimes you want to show right and

18:32

feels like a full meal such as

18:34

a snack your like your feasting and

18:36

everything going on here swap produced it's

18:39

well written. else includes the and lawyer

18:41

see that. As. A writer so

18:43

that's very cool. I remember her from

18:45

her critic days. I'm just awesome stuff

18:47

I cannot recommend that are highly. I.

18:50

Completely agree. Ah, everything's of interest

18:53

as you have. These

18:55

these Japanese actors are so freakin' bad

18:57

ass and know that they speak in

19:00

Japanese you know like it is mostly

19:02

a deputy so much your yeah the

19:04

show is mostly in Japanese mostly true

19:06

to life. The way they deal with

19:09

translation is very interesting on the know

19:11

like they are people are doing translations

19:13

or and like the way in which

19:16

people are translating is safe by who

19:18

the character is. Oftentimes the show looks

19:20

amazing, the visual effects are amazing but

19:22

also the or sumptuous but also. Just

19:26

the sets and the the lighting

19:28

of the lighting vr the costumes

19:30

were are just. They. All

19:33

feel very intricate. Very

19:35

meticulous. very authentic and.

19:38

It's just. That. the best

19:40

of what prestige t v can be

19:42

in my but i think fx was

19:44

trying to make this for like a

19:46

decade yeah in in some fashion so

19:48

like this is a long gestating project

19:50

but it is well worth it when

19:52

did this book at adapted in the

19:54

eighties yes yes yes there is a

19:56

mini series in the eighties yeah yeah

19:59

in nineteen eighty I believe so and

20:01

I remember yeah, it was a big thing then and

20:03

I was kind of worried about like Are we just

20:06

gonna do this all over again? It's gonna be last

20:08

samurai, but you know what? I like the last samurai.

20:10

So yeah I don't and

20:12

to be fair. I think it's One

20:14

of the big differences is like a lot of the Japanese one

20:16

of the differences read this and like the last samurai is I

20:18

think Like there is so much attention

20:21

dedicated to the Japanese characters and

20:24

their inner lives their interiority their

20:26

motivations So even

20:28

if it does end up being a little

20:30

bit There's a very prominent

20:32

white character. Yeah kind of like a motivating factor,

20:34

but also he's a political pawn Yeah, not like

20:36

the lead character of the story. Yeah, so I'm

20:39

really curious like how that's all gonna play I

20:41

don't I haven't read the book. I don't know.

20:43

I haven't watched the series. So I'm very curious

20:46

How this the show might change the

20:48

book or the series and

20:50

what decisions it'll make but I strongly

20:52

recommend you watch Shogun Yeah on Hulu

20:54

FX To Ted and

20:56

Obu Asano who plays the character here and

20:58

to why who's been a bunch of TV shows

21:01

I really enjoyed like just a phenomenal cast and

21:03

I have never seen Cosmo Jarvis before who

21:06

plays Don't be

21:08

on yeah. Yeah, he he is just

21:10

kind of a Like

21:12

a little mongrel of a person like just

21:14

like he's very animalistic in terms of like,

21:17

oh, I'm a strange person in this land

21:19

And I don't belong here. I

21:21

think he's just very fun and intriguing to

21:24

watch too. So yeah It's also

21:26

good Agreed, that's Shogun

21:28

on Hulu and FX or as

21:30

the voiceover guy says Shogun. Yes

21:34

Jeff Kanata your What

21:36

have you bought this week? Well, I finally got around

21:38

to seeing a movie that many people have recommended I

21:40

think it was on one of your top ten list

21:42

last year. It was on my honorable mentions. It almost

21:44

made my top ten Our

21:47

friends friend of the show Dennis Ied

21:50

who I spent some time with and I'll get to

21:52

why that is I suggested

21:54

it. Oh, okay. So when you see how it is,

21:56

I see how it is. I listen. Okay. Yeah, there's

21:58

certain people in your life that you just respect their

22:00

opinions. You know what I'm saying? I see how

22:02

it is. Yep. Okay. Yep. Anyway,

22:04

I think it was one hit. I think it was in his like top

22:07

three of the year. Anyway,

22:09

it's a movie called Blackberry. And

22:11

so I finally got around to watching it

22:13

sitting down and watching it. And

22:16

I agree with him and

22:18

no one else that is good. Excellent.

22:21

Really just twisting, twisting that knife. Anyway,

22:24

it's very fun. It's a

22:27

very fun movie. I think the thing

22:29

I liked most about Blackberry, and maybe

22:31

you had even mentioned this when you

22:33

talked about it, David, is how constrained

22:35

it feels. It really

22:39

does feel like a pressure cooker kind of

22:41

a movie, even though it's dealing

22:43

with multiple years and sort of

22:45

big corporations and

22:48

it still feels almost like a play. It still

22:50

feels the kinds of things that

22:52

I'm very drawn to, which is, you know, people in a

22:54

room, dialogue, whip smart dialogue,

22:56

kind of intense scenes

22:59

between actors. And I really

23:02

enjoyed it. I thought it was

23:04

really interesting, even though,

23:07

you know, subsequently kind of googling

23:09

a bit and realizing how much liberty

23:12

it takes with the joke.

23:14

It's still a real

23:17

good entertainment. I think it's unfortunate

23:19

how a lot of these things will just be taken

23:21

as gospel by many people that

23:23

see them as like, this is how

23:25

it went down, you know? What did

23:27

you think about Glenn Harrington, Jeff? Yeah,

23:29

Glenn Harrington. I really liked him. It's

23:32

kind of phenomenal. I have

23:34

a weird bugaboo about the

23:38

like shaving your head to look

23:41

bald thing. I don't think it ever really

23:43

works. It doesn't actually look like you're bald

23:45

ever. I'm going to just go out there

23:47

and say one of the things I didn't

23:50

like about Blackberry is I didn't believe any

23:52

character actually had the hair that they had

23:54

in that. Agree. Jay Barichel. Or

23:57

the other guy, even though he got the headband. Nobody's

23:59

hair. Yeah, nobody cares. Nobody's

24:01

convincing in that movie, unfortunately. But

24:03

it's easily overlooked. I thought

24:07

Glenn Howard's performance was

24:09

quite strong, even

24:12

if it too seems to have very

24:14

little connection

24:18

with reality. But that's okay,

24:20

because it was an entertaining

24:22

movie and I'm such a

24:25

creature of the 90s that I

24:27

loved just sort of being back there. Like

24:29

just the Dot

24:32

Matrix fanfold banner that's

24:34

in this movie is

24:37

like, oh my god, I haven't thought about that. I

24:39

remember printing out banners like that that

24:42

would print out horizontally across multiple

24:44

fanfolded. I remember doing that for

24:46

like my parents for their birthday

24:48

because I was a computer nerd and I could

24:52

print out things on the computer. And

24:54

it was all just at ANSI characters

24:57

or ASCII characters that were, oh

24:59

man, very funny. So just

25:01

that like texture of it, they

25:03

felt like they really nailed that. Although,

25:07

one huge thing that stuck out

25:09

like a sore thumb, there's a moment where one

25:11

of the guys goes, you need to get John

25:13

Carmack. He works at ID. How

25:17

did that get through the final edit? It

25:20

feels like everybody was really familiar with the 90s

25:22

and all the 90s references. How do we not

25:24

know that the company was id? It

25:27

could be one of those things where it's like you've never actually heard

25:29

it said it aloud. Maybe the character. Maybe

25:31

the character. We didn't know, Jeff. You guys

25:34

have watched the movie. That character's wearing doom

25:36

shirts. Yeah, that character. There

25:38

were no podcasts back then. It was

25:40

very hard to hear people voicing

25:42

anything about these companies. I

25:45

have so many mispronunciations. I don't know, Jeff. I

25:47

watched the movie podcast and until recently I said

25:49

A24 instead of A24. You

25:52

know, it happened. It happens. I

25:54

guess. I guess. I feel like that character

25:56

would know. I feel like that character would

25:58

know. I love

26:00

this movie because I think it's

26:03

Shakespearean in the plot. The

26:05

plot is these guys build one

26:07

of the most successful smartphone question

26:10

mark companies in the world, one of the

26:12

most successful cellular device companies in the world,

26:14

and then are felled

26:18

because they don't see the

26:20

future coming. That's a very... That's

26:23

a very... Innovator's dilemma. Yeah, it's a very tragic... Innovator's

26:25

dilemma, a very tragic idea, and I thought it was

26:27

brought to life really well in the movie. I

26:29

think it's actually about something, unlike some of the other movies.

26:32

I agree. It was... The

26:38

journey, the good fellas esque

26:40

rise and fall story is

26:42

very satisfying and

26:45

fun to ride, and you

26:47

see them all hoisted on their hubris. It's

26:51

hoisted on their hubris. Their

26:54

own petards as well. Their

26:57

hubris and petards in equal measure. Yeah, they were hoisted

26:59

by a number of things, it turns out. Anyway,

27:05

anything else about Blackberry? Which is now in

27:07

Hulu, by the way, we should say. It

27:09

is now in Hulu. Yeah,

27:13

I really, really dug it. I had a great time with it.

27:15

I don't know if it would have made my top 10 of

27:17

the year either, but certainly a movie

27:19

that I think is well worth watching. We've

27:22

talked so many times on the show about

27:24

this glut of these types of movies, specifically

27:27

about this subject matter of technology

27:29

startups that go wrong. It just

27:32

seems like there's so many in

27:34

the last few years. This

27:36

is top tier.

27:38

Yeah, the best. Maybe

27:40

even the only one you need to watch. Agreed. Agreed.

27:44

There's like the WeWork one and the... There are

27:46

so many of them. Yeah. Okay.

27:48

Anyway, that's Blackberry. It's streaming right

27:51

now in Hulu. I had

27:53

a chance to watch The

27:55

Raid, which is the Gareth

27:57

Evans action thriller set in...

28:01

Indonesia and this

28:03

movie is one of my favorite movies of

28:05

all time and there is a recently released

28:08

4k disc that

28:10

just came out. And

28:13

the note I know I normally wouldn't necessarily bring

28:15

this up but the 4k disc

28:19

contains a completely like

28:22

redone version of the color grading

28:24

of the film. And

28:26

I love the raid

28:28

but I think the original

28:31

home video release we got kinda sucked.

28:34

It was a rough movie at the

28:36

time in general. It looked very muddy,

28:38

it looked very grey and kind

28:42

of an ugly looking movie on

28:44

home video. And the

28:47

action was still there and a lot of the filmmaking was still there

28:49

but I was just like wow this looks... I wonder

28:51

if this is like how it was actually shot and they just

28:53

were like this is the way it's gonna be. But

28:57

Gareth Evans went back and did a redone version

28:59

of the color. It

29:01

now looks great. It's

29:03

almost like watching a different movie in my opinion. I

29:06

posted about this on my Instagram. People ask me like is it worth getting

29:08

the 4k? 100%

29:11

it is and certainly if you have not seen the

29:13

movie it's like a really

29:15

great little action thriller that I

29:17

would strongly recommend. The

29:22

Raid Redemption and the Raid 2 are

29:24

just some of my all timers in terms

29:26

of... I think the Raid 2 is better

29:28

than the original in my opinion. They're both

29:30

good. I think I will say this about

29:32

the Raid 2. The Raid 2, Barandol also

29:34

known as the Raid Retaliation. Love

29:37

that movie as well. The Raid 1 is 90 minutes long. The Raid

29:39

2 is like two and a half hours long. The

29:42

Raid 2 is fat. The Raid 1

29:44

is lean and clean. What I'm gonna

29:46

say about Raid 1 is I

29:49

think some of the budget limitations are very obvious

29:51

in the Raid 1. It

29:53

looks like they're reusing a lot of sets. It

29:56

looks like they don't have that many sets. The building that

29:58

they're in... Is

30:00

like from the outside feel cg like I

30:02

never get a really good sense of the

30:04

geography of the place Because

30:07

I think they're kind of just cobbling together

30:09

the the locations they can whereas the raid

30:11

too You know

30:13

There is a wide variety of sets and there is

30:15

a wide variety of locations And some

30:17

of the stuff looks like it's shot on location

30:20

and it just is like a much better from

30:22

a production value perspective But it's not

30:24

as lean and mean as the first one, you

30:26

know, the first one is just 90 minutes of

30:28

pure adrenaline And I love the

30:30

raid too as well. But uh, and and and the

30:32

raid too has Probably

30:34

like one of the all-time greatest Closing

30:37

fight sequences i've ever seen. Oh,

30:39

yeah Uh, there's a one-on-one fight

30:41

sequences that close out. That movie is just

30:43

absolutely incredible But it's one of many

30:46

that are amazing in that movie. Yes. Yes but

30:49

the raid Uh redemption or

30:51

the raid one Is

30:53

now been remastered into 4k disc Uh,

30:56

it's unfortunate. It's not like that easy to

30:58

find, you know, best buys like shifting

31:01

away from making selling dvbs

31:03

and blu-rays and stuff and so like

31:05

walmart and target and Amazon,

31:07

I guess the only place you can find this but Uh,

31:09

it is worth seeking this one out if you're a

31:11

big a fan of the raid as I was Um,

31:14

so that's the raid 4k remaster On

31:18

4k uhd. It's one thing i've been watching

31:20

this week All right, davindra you

31:22

want to mention one other thing, right? Yeah, one other

31:24

thing I want to mention audiobook

31:27

and i've been trying to spend a little

31:29

more time exploring audiobooks just because Listen

31:32

podcast are just getting old and sometimes you just

31:34

hear the same people blathering the same garbage every

31:36

week Oh my god, we've had enough. I was

31:39

just about to tell you to shut up actually.

31:41

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I know the feeling Listen

31:43

listeners like yeah, i'm right there with you Uh,

31:46

the thing about audiobooks is like I i've

31:48

had a hard time doing like novels and

31:50

things like that in fiction But

31:52

hey, there's all sorts of other things. Um,

31:54

there are biographies. There are different types of

31:57

books that work really well Uh in

31:59

audiobooks for me So I want to recommend The

32:01

Creative Act, A Way of

32:03

Being, the audiobook by Rick Rubin,

32:05

read by Rick Rubin, the famed

32:08

music producer, co-founder of Desk Jam. Not

32:11

somebody I've like thought about

32:14

a lot, but I have like,

32:16

I've seen like some of his thinking just like

32:18

shared around Twitter and whatnot. In terms of like

32:21

this guy is just like a really thoughtful

32:23

human being when it comes to creativity. And I

32:25

have to actually say both for you, Jeff

32:29

and Dave, like, I think you should check this out.

32:32

I have it. I've read it. It's on

32:34

my shelf. So in the big stuff.

32:36

Like he is coming at the art

32:38

of creativity with an almost like Buddhist

32:40

leaning, like it's very, very chill. He

32:44

kind of breaks down like things that have worked

32:46

for him, but also life philosophies

32:48

when it comes to work or dealing with creative

32:50

projects. I think the thing is fantastic. It's

32:53

a really short for an audiobook.

32:55

It's not very long, it's like five hours, five hours

32:57

and 45 minutes, but it's a really chill listen. I

32:59

also want to shout it out because Spotify,

33:02

if you have Spotify premium, you

33:04

have a decent chunk of audiobook

33:06

minutes every month. I think

33:08

it's like 15 hours or something. So

33:10

I listened to it that way. Didn't have to pay anything

33:13

extra, but it is

33:15

so good. And I started to hit my limit on

33:17

Spotify that I've just, I'm going to do the audible

33:19

thing. I'm going to see how that works this time.

33:21

I think this is a really well read book. He

33:24

reads it himself. He has a very chill voice and

33:26

anybody doing creative work or work where you

33:28

just have to, I think any

33:31

sort of work, you know, creativity can be all sorts of

33:33

things. It's not about making a work of art, but if

33:35

you're just doing a work project or something, I

33:37

think he has a lot of advice in terms of

33:39

coming up with ideas, collaborating with other people and just

33:41

like getting your ideas over the finish line. It's

33:44

super useful. So yeah. And did you like the

33:46

book, Dave? Yes, I think it's very good. It's

33:48

very profound. Yeah. It's also something I

33:50

think you would like. It sounds right in my

33:53

alley. I'm going to check this out. It's the Creative

33:55

Act by Rick Rubin. It's something Davinder has been consuming

33:57

this week. All right, Jeff Kanata, bring us

33:59

home. Well, I wanted to

34:01

mention the fact that I did go

34:03

to Vegas last weekend Danish

34:05

and I met up there and went to

34:08

see you two at the sphere now was

34:10

was this at least in part? Because

34:13

of my discussing it on the podcast or it have

34:15

no relation to that. I don't recall you Okay,

34:22

okay Raved

34:24

about it and it inspired me to spend

34:27

way more than I should have To

34:29

get myself there and see I think it

34:32

was one of the final weekends that yeah,

34:34

I think like this week Yeah

34:36

is the final week that they're doing it.

34:38

So you got to see one of the

34:40

final instances. Yeah So Jeff I raved about

34:42

it here on the film cast. I recommended it Was

34:46

my recommendation on point? here's

34:49

what I'll say I think this is a Show

34:53

that is intention

34:57

between two two

34:59

states one is a

35:02

you two concert in

35:04

a really cool venue and

35:06

the other is an Audio

35:09

visual showcase that has

35:11

you two as a background track. Mm-hmm,

35:14

right and it's it battling between

35:16

those two things

35:22

And first of all, it's

35:24

an incredible experience. I mean it is Absolutely.

35:27

There's nothing like it Nothing

35:30

like it. Yeah, I know I'm a huge

35:32

VR proponent bought

35:35

the Apple vision Pro and have

35:37

other VR headsets. I love big screens that

35:40

I go I want to have these

35:42

kinds of transport of experiences There

35:45

is nothing to compare

35:47

to seeing Something inside

35:49

the sphere in Las Vegas It

35:51

is there's just nothing like it the

35:54

scale of the screen that surrounds you

35:56

is It's

36:00

just incomparable. There's nothing to compare it

36:02

to. It's just a wild thing that

36:05

I kept marveling that we as human

36:07

beings even just built this thing. It's

36:11

mind boggling. But

36:15

I will say it didn't

36:19

the YouTube concert didn't take advantage of it

36:22

as much as I thought it was going

36:24

to. There are large sections

36:26

of the show where you're just watching a

36:28

concert. It's

36:30

like 30 30% I would say around that.

36:33

Yeah, yeah, and and. I

36:36

mean, that's cool. I like you too. I had a good time, but

36:40

it also happens to be and I think

36:42

proves itself to be. Among

36:45

the coolest concert venues

36:47

just as a concert venue, not

36:49

as a audio visual experience, but

36:52

just as a concert venue. But

36:54

there is no bad seat in the

36:56

house because they do this stuff where

36:58

they're they're shooting the members of

37:00

the band live with

37:02

cameras and then projecting them.

37:06

On a size and scale on this spherical screen

37:08

that is that just makes it. You know, I'm

37:10

sure everybody listening has had the experience of going

37:13

to a live concert venue that is very large

37:15

and inevitably there'll be a screen somewhere that will

37:17

show you a close up of the singer or

37:19

the drummer or the guitarist or whatever it is.

37:22

And you'll a lot of the show based

37:25

on your seats. You'll be looking at that screen. There

37:28

is no screen that

37:30

is more effective at showing you what the

37:32

band is doing than the sphere.

37:35

It's just you. It

37:37

feels like you're standing right next to

37:39

them. They're blown up at such a

37:41

astronomical size. And the

37:43

things that they do with that is really really

37:45

cool. So just as a concert venue. It's really

37:48

cool. I

37:50

do. I will say, you know, Bono has

37:52

gotten to the point where he's just like

37:54

speak singing most of the time. You know,

37:56

yeah, the music part of this is I

37:58

literally said this. When we talked and

38:00

I think you kind of gave me

38:03

a hard time about it. I was like the

38:05

music component is not the most compelling part. Oh,

38:08

I agree. And and what I didn't suspect

38:10

I feel like there was some pushback from

38:12

you to. To

38:14

go full bore into the visual

38:18

place because like we said

38:20

there's so much of the show where they're just not

38:23

attempting to do anything with the screens they're just

38:25

showing you the band to play. And

38:28

but when when they do

38:30

lean into that when it becomes oh,

38:32

I'm just listening to the background music

38:34

of you two while I'm experiencing the

38:36

most. Overwhelming

38:39

visuals I have ever seen

38:42

that is really worth

38:44

the price of admission which again not a small

38:46

price. But I

38:49

was gobsmacked when they did this really cool thing

38:51

I guess I can spoil a little of it

38:53

because there's no way to. No one's ever going

38:55

to see it again so

38:57

if you're one of the final people that's going to see it

39:00

skip this after this weekend no one's going to

39:02

see it anymore like this is going to be

39:04

a good vision pro experience by the way like.

39:06

You think you think that's smart like if you

39:08

just like put that 180 degree camera like right

39:10

in the center like you get the you get

39:12

the scope of it maybe I can see that

39:14

happening they said when we were there. And

39:17

by the way dennis is like this you see this every time

39:19

so maybe i'll ask you David said to you when we were

39:21

there he's like I just want you to know this is the

39:23

one we're recording. For posterity

39:27

sure they did not say that I

39:29

was at the one so when you hear

39:31

the guy go that's me. That's me. That's

39:36

funny. But

39:40

where was I going oh so those

39:42

spoil everything just the way the show

39:45

begins I thought was masterful

39:47

in that you you enter

39:49

the venue and they

39:51

have. A

39:54

texture on the screen yeah all

39:56

around you that looks shitty.

40:00

It looks bad. And

40:02

to the point where it's like, oh, this kind of

40:04

looks low-res and awful. And I got to the point

40:07

where I was like, oh, I

40:10

get it. It's all around you and that's neat, but

40:12

it's like, it's not a

40:14

mate. I mean, it looks... Well, I think you're

40:16

not... Like, basically,

40:19

on screen is a thing that makes

40:21

it look like the sphere is made

40:23

out of like big concrete slabs, basically.

40:26

Like big stones. And so you look around

40:28

and you're like, oh, I'm inside this big

40:31

concrete stone sphere. Yes,

40:34

but they don't look great. It

40:36

doesn't look good. It looks kind of low-res. I will say

40:38

many of the people I was with were convinced about it.

40:40

That was... Convinced that it was actual

40:43

stones. Or that it was some real material. So...

40:45

So you went with idiots. I'm kidding. Just

40:48

kidding. No, I thought it looked

40:50

bad. I thought it looked like low... Yeah,

40:52

sure. Like the screens themselves weren't very

40:55

high quality. But then you

40:57

two comes on and it bursts

40:59

through that and you see

41:01

the crispest, most beautiful... Yeah. I

41:04

think it's like 16K or something like

41:06

that. It's

41:09

like super high-res. But

41:12

I loved the swerve at the beginning of like,

41:14

oh, this doesn't look... I don't

41:16

know. Maybe I'm reading into it too much. But

41:18

I felt like they were intentionally making it look

41:21

underwhelming and then revealed it to

41:23

be the most spectacular,

41:27

high-density, vivid image I've ever

41:29

seen. To the point where

41:32

there are sequences where they're like, convince

41:35

you there's water surrounding the stage.

41:38

Yeah. It's amazing. Amazing.

41:41

I recorded a video review

41:43

of this where you can see a lot of the stuff that

41:45

Jeff is subscribing. So if you go to my YouTube channel, all

41:49

the stuff Jeff mentioned, you can see in the

41:51

video that I made of my experience this year.

41:54

But yes, I agree with

41:56

you about the reveal, Jeff. It is really spectacular.

42:00

And it's you feel like you're never gonna see anything

42:02

like this again really right like and

42:04

I've never seen it before Like there's nothing

42:06

to compare it to yeah. Yeah, it's hard

42:08

to even express what it's like because yeah,

42:10

yeah, it doesn't feel

42:12

like you're looking at There's

42:16

there's a sequence where they like extend

42:19

the your view into

42:21

like a desert and then there's a flag

42:23

that's there running and the flag catches on

42:26

fire and It looks

42:28

like that's the reality you're

42:30

staring it looks photorealistic. Yeah. Yes Yeah,

42:33

and the way they do it with the the

42:35

sight lines it looks like it's extending out

42:38

It's just seamless and amazing and I

42:42

mean totally totally transportive. I just wish

42:44

more total time of

42:46

the show was spent Doing

42:48

yeah, yeah, you know and because

42:51

you to again you two is fine But

42:53

Bono is you know Bono is just like

42:55

phoning it in a little yeah you know

42:57

and I like you too

42:59

and that came out, you know humming the songs but I Can

43:05

only imagine the next people that are gonna be in there are the

43:07

Grateful Dead or whatever they're calling them So dead in

43:09

company, I think they call themselves And

43:11

I just I I suspect they will

43:14

be less precious about their performance and

43:16

more willing to just go

43:18

nuts with the visuals So

43:21

who knows what that shows like but yeah, I'm

43:23

really cuz there's gonna be more artists now that

43:26

are gonna be Using

43:29

the sphere like fish right and

43:31

and I think You

43:34

too spent like as far as I can understand

43:36

like over a year working on their show and

43:38

so I'm curious How an

43:40

artist is gonna come in do four shows at

43:42

the sphere and then leave like how will an

43:44

artist that does just a few? Shows take advantage

43:46

of the sphere. I'm really curious. The

43:48

only thing I can imagine is that they'll have Like

43:51

any concert venue, yeah, like lighting packages.

43:54

Yeah, some kind of standardized. Yeah You

43:57

can use the the butterflies and we'll use

44:01

the trees and what it's like in

44:03

what section you want to use what thing I can't imagine

44:05

they'll be able to do bespoke things for

44:07

every artist but maybe they will. I'm

44:10

really curious about

44:14

how it's all gonna work it's a brand

44:16

new format basically you know it's a brand

44:18

new format. It's not I mean

44:20

hopefully these things will there'll be more of them

44:22

like I would love them to there to be

44:25

a you know a sphere in you

44:27

know Iowa or whatever just like put them have

44:30

this be a thing where people

44:33

could tour you know but

44:35

as it stands now like we're saying like YouTube did

44:37

this and then it's just gone

44:40

there's no use for

44:42

it anymore yeah it's wild anyway

44:45

I'm glad you got to see it Jeff it's I am just you

44:47

like something you did dissuade me

44:49

from staying an extra day to see

44:51

the film in there and Danish

44:54

saw it and he said it was even more impressive

44:56

so okay well I wish I'd done that

44:58

so you know I still have some what

45:01

the lesson so you ever listen

45:03

today yeah yeah Wow Wow sorry

45:06

for trying to save you hundreds of

45:08

dollars okay anyway that's you two

45:12

at the sphere if you are one of the last to catch it

45:14

hope you have a great time all

45:16

right let's take one more break for a

45:19

sponsor we'll be back with more right after

45:21

this let's do a

45:23

few weekly plugs before we get to our review of

45:25

doing part two weekly

45:33

plugs the part of show each week where we

45:35

plug something else we've been making I want to

45:37

plug the decoding TV podcast where

45:39

we have switched to a new weekly format that

45:43

anyone can tune into at any time

45:45

this week we had Jesse Earl on

45:47

the show to discuss constellation the new

45:49

Apple TV plus sci-fi series

45:52

so check that out decoding TV

45:54

wherever your podcast can be downloaded

45:56

given your hardware give us a weekly plug sure two

45:59

quick things the latest up to the Engadget podcast,

46:01

we talk about the reported death of the Apple car

46:03

and kind of what that project could have been. And

46:06

my co-host, Herlin Lo, and I, we

46:08

also talk about what's happening at Engadget.

46:10

I mentioned that we were going through

46:12

some layoffs, a whole editorial restructuring. I'm

46:14

still here, she's still there, a whole bunch

46:16

of us are. So check that out if

46:18

you're interested in hearing what's going on at

46:21

Engadget. I also just wrote a piece up

46:23

for our 20th anniversary series called

46:26

Streaming Video Changed the Internet Forever.

46:28

I think everybody listening will probably

46:30

get a kick out of that. So I

46:32

kind of look back to the very first

46:34

thing I did to watch a video online,

46:36

which was, I believe, the

46:38

Mortal Kombat trailer in

46:40

1995. I remember specifically

46:43

entering a very long URL and it taking

46:46

forever and looking like garbage. But

46:48

that was it. And now look at us.

46:50

We got the internet video everywhere. It's amazing.

46:52

So yeah, go check out that piece. All

46:55

right, Jeff Canava. You know,

46:58

I've been doing some work lately

47:00

on Best Summed Up, the film

47:03

limerick quiz book that got

47:05

funded through Unbound and will

47:07

be hopefully happening this year.

47:09

I've been

47:11

going through and doing a revision pass

47:14

on every limerick that

47:16

I've ever done on this show. So I've

47:18

been rereading them and kind of rewriting

47:20

some of them a bit and trying to improve them

47:22

for the book. And one of

47:25

the things I've noticed is I've gotten

47:27

a lot better at this hundreds of limericks later. I'm

47:30

a little better, I think, at writing them, which

47:33

is good news for you because I'll sell

47:35

you one right now and you can take

47:38

advantage of all that accumulated skill from

47:40

writing hundreds of limericks over at cameo.com/Jeff

47:42

Canava. You can get your own limerick

47:45

written by me. I would

47:47

say I might be in the top

47:49

1% of all people who have ever written

47:52

limericks in the world, not for skill,

47:54

but just in sheer number of limericks. I

47:56

would guess there are fewer. There were about 1%

47:58

of the people. in the world that

48:01

have written as many limericks, just. The

48:04

number of them that I have, I could

48:06

be wrong, but it seems right, feels right.

48:09

Anyway, leverage all that experience for

48:11

your own joy at

48:13

cameo.com/Jeff Conato, where you can get your

48:15

own limerick written by me, delivered by

48:17

me for you for any occasion. Boy,

48:20

they're fun. Five star reviews all over the

48:22

place. You can read up, see how people

48:24

have enjoyed them. cameo.com/Jeff Conato. patreon.com/film

48:28

podcast where you can get ad free episodes

48:30

and exclusive after darks of this podcast. We

48:32

never want anyone to donate if it in

48:34

any way causes a financial hardship. If you

48:36

want to support us for free, it's very

48:38

easy to leave a star rating on Apple

48:41

podcasts or share our

48:43

videos or post them on Instagram, on YouTube,

48:45

on TikTok, post them online and

48:47

spread the word about the film cast. We

48:49

appreciate everyone who makes this podcast possible. Let's

48:52

get to our view of Dune Part two. This

48:59

world is beyond cruelty. They've

49:04

been fighting the Harkonnen for decades. My

49:07

family's been fighting them for centuries. They

49:11

were massacred alongside

49:13

my father. My

49:15

father didn't believe in rebellion.

49:19

We believe in famine.

49:22

And we fight beside you. Welcome

49:27

to the film cast review of Dune

49:29

Part two. I'm going to read

49:31

the plot summary from the Internet. Paul Atreides unites

49:33

with Chani and the Freeman. Sorry. And

49:35

the Fremen, while seeking revenge against the conspirators

49:37

who destroyed his family, facing a choice between

49:39

the love of his life and the fate

49:41

of the universe. He must prevent a terrible

49:44

future only he can foresee. End quote. Joining

49:46

us for this conversation about Dune Part two.

49:49

One of my favorite people working

49:52

in Hollywood right now. You've seen

49:54

his movies like Cube and Splice.

49:56

He's also worked on television shows

49:58

like Hannibal. the peripheral. He

50:01

also has a new graphic novel out

50:03

right now called Tech,

50:05

I believe, right? Vincenzo Natali,

50:07

welcome to the film cast.

50:10

This is so lovely to be back. Welcome

50:12

back. Welcome back. Vincenzo,

50:14

tell us about this graphic novel,

50:16

Tech. I'm glad you chose to

50:19

focus on an extremely narrow subject

50:21

matter for your first graphic novel.

50:24

Yes. Well, why not

50:26

start slogging some swag, right? Tech.

50:31

Nice. It's a graphic

50:33

novel that I wrote and illustrated. And,

50:36

you know, it's just an expression

50:38

of my frustration as

50:40

a failed comic book artist. And

50:42

what can I tell you? I mean,

50:47

it's it's got a board by William Gibson, who

50:49

is a Wow, somebody I'm a great fan

50:52

of and have stolen from

50:54

liberally. So yes,

50:56

please seek it out. It's on Amazon

50:58

and all the usual places that you

51:00

find graphic novels and books. All

51:03

right. Well, Dune Part Two,

51:06

one of the biggest movie events of the year.

51:08

Vincenzo Natali, why don't you tell us briefly about

51:10

your relationship with the Dune franchise and what your

51:12

thoughts were on Dune Part One. And then we'd

51:15

love to hear overall, what you thought of Dune

51:17

Part Two, which you just watched last night. So

51:19

you could be here on the film cast today,

51:21

right? Yeah, I'm still processing

51:23

it a little bit. But well,

51:26

I'm of a certain vintage. So

51:29

I saw David Lynch's Dune

51:31

in the theater. Wow. Way

51:33

back when, which was

51:35

probably one of the most disappointing experiences I've

51:37

ever had in the cinema in my life.

51:40

Wow. Really, if

51:42

you were to put yourself back at that time,

51:44

it really was expected to

51:46

be the next big film

51:48

event. And I had

51:51

at the age of 10 seen The Elephant

51:54

Man, which really profoundly affected

51:56

me. And then not

51:58

long, well, a number of years

52:01

after that discovered a racer head, which

52:03

also affected me profoundly, not understanding or knowing

52:05

that it was the same director. And

52:07

then when I connected those two dots, I

52:09

was a full David Lynch fan. So

52:12

the prospect of Dune became very exciting to

52:15

me. And I believe

52:17

I read the book in

52:19

advance of seeing the film, which

52:23

was the last time I read a Dune book. But

52:28

which I enjoyed. And but

52:31

the movie was just, it's,

52:34

it's actually aged much better. But in

52:36

the moment, if you had been with

52:38

me at the time, when I walked out of the theater, I was angry,

52:41

like angry in the way that you can

52:43

only be when an artist that you dearly

52:46

love disappoints you. We know that feeling. Yeah,

52:48

we will have that. So. But I, you

52:50

know, there

52:54

is a resonance to

52:56

the movie, which of course, partly comes from the

52:58

book. And I think, you

53:00

know, I've returned to it over the years. And

53:02

I, and actually, especially after seeing

53:05

the Villeneuve first Dune film, I started

53:08

to appreciate that movie, because

53:10

actually, they're kind of quite similar. They're

53:12

more similar than you might expect. And you

53:14

begin to realize, actually,

53:16

how much David

53:19

Lynch got right in that adaptation.

53:21

And there's just, you know,

53:23

so much lore associated with the making of that film. And

53:25

then of course, there's the books themselves and how they've infiltrated

53:28

the popular consciousness. And,

53:31

you know, the genre in general, which

53:33

is in a very deep way,

53:35

I mean, starting with Star Wars

53:38

is obviously deeply indebted to Dune.

53:42

And I think it's interesting, you know,

53:46

seeing part two, thinking

53:48

about Star Wars and thinking about the prequels

53:50

and how even the prequels probably

53:53

owe a debt to Dune. So, you know, it

53:57

is this massive cultural, artifact

54:00

of science fiction that That's

54:05

why it's good to have a podcast because there's a lot

54:07

to talk about in dissect and And

54:10

yeah, that's in that is well,

54:12

you know brief history for me with it.

54:15

So you're not I'm not a Yeah,

54:18

I did the other book. I don't I

54:20

don't have a passion For

54:23

the Frank Herbert novels like some

54:25

people obviously do so, what

54:27

were your overall thoughts on doing to what was your

54:29

big reaction? coming out of Dune 2 Everyone

54:38

is saying that right now, so I feel like I

54:40

don't have anything to contribute but you

54:43

know the first part I liked

54:45

very much but I was

54:47

cognizant of the fact that It's

54:50

only part of the top. It's very hard to

54:52

do just half a book because it does feel

54:54

incomplete and And and so

54:56

I think the second film benefits from

54:59

being able to finish the

55:01

novel and kind of you know You're you're kind

55:03

of past all the exposition and all the hard

55:06

work that you have to do as a reader or as a viewer To

55:09

get to that point and now you kind of get to ride the

55:11

worm And

55:16

I'm I love Denis Villeneuve's

55:18

work everything he's done. I think

55:20

he's quite brilliant and

55:22

and I feel like His

55:25

approach to science fiction and this movie

55:28

is is what the genre needs

55:30

now I mean above and beyond it is an

55:32

experience as a movie it I think

55:34

in a broader sense I think it's important. I

55:37

mean really You

55:39

know say what you will about Hollywood, and it's really

55:41

not been a great time This

55:44

film could not have been made in the past like

55:46

20 and obviously when David Lynch did it 40 years

55:48

ago. I think That is

55:51

on the positive side of the spectrum

55:53

where our The medium

55:56

has evolved to like we can a

55:58

movie of that sophisticated of and

56:00

in of that cost and scope in

56:03

the realm of science fiction can now be made and

56:05

treated with great seriousness that

56:07

it deserves And

56:10

I don't think there was the cultural environment for that

56:12

even 20 years ago certainly

56:14

not 40 years ago when David Lynch did

56:17

his doing I don't think even

56:19

though that was a big-budget movie, I

56:21

think part of the reason the film didn't work out is because You

56:24

know the producers didn't understand it. But

56:27

now I think because

56:29

of where Denis Villeneuve is in

56:31

his career and and Then but

56:33

also I think where the culture and the culture of

56:35

Hollywood is that right now that scene can exist? So

56:37

that's great. I think it's

56:39

a really heartening experience Sorry,

56:42

I'm getting you want eating up all the air here.

56:44

No worries. No worries. Don't worry. We have plenty of

56:46

time We have plenty time. Yeah here. Let's pause for

56:48

a moment and let's hear from the vendor

56:50

hardware. What was your reaction to watching Dune

56:52

2? You

56:55

know, it's pretty good I'm

56:59

I'm right there with you been said that like my thinking

57:01

was like around Star Wars at this point because I've also

57:03

been like I've liked a lot of the

57:05

TV shows, but I've also been like just kind of sad about

57:07

how empty some of it

57:09

has started to feel and has started to feel like made

57:11

for TV sci-fi and it feels like that's a Watering

57:14

down of like what we loved about the scope

57:16

and the epicness of Star Wars watching

57:19

this movie It

57:21

just feels like Villeneuve is like right like he

57:23

had this all in his head He's just like

57:25

ready to go right where for where we left

57:27

off in the first movie and this

57:29

movie is just so big Like

57:32

it there's just so much going on. It is

57:34

a wild ride all the way through It does

57:36

feel like the second half of a book. So

57:38

yeah, we're straight into action. We're straight into like

57:40

really Whole new

57:42

characters who are all of a sudden very important like

57:44

Florence P is character but just feel

57:46

like there's so much going on and It

57:49

kind of reminds me. I saw this Right

57:52

before I can't in between I was

57:54

rewatching doing one like in between all this But watching

57:56

this and then going back to dude and one just

57:58

feels like oh, wow. He did actually have a

58:01

lot of this just in his head at

58:03

that point. So the sheer scope of this

58:05

thing, the way it feels so immersive and

58:07

lived in and real, just like the

58:09

first movie, I think it's incredible. Also, this may

58:11

just be an experience like a few people have,

58:13

but I saw this thing in an AMC Dolby

58:16

cinema. And these things are unique because

58:19

this is filmed in IMAX, so IMAX is like

58:21

the best possible way to see it. But that's

58:23

where my press screening was. And they have dual

58:26

laser Dolby vision protectors, they have

58:28

Atmos sound, and they also have transducers in

58:30

the seat, which rumble the seats. And I'm

58:32

not usually a fan of that, but by

58:35

the time Paul was like riding the sandworm, which

58:37

is in the trailer, we know it's gonna happen,

58:40

everything was shaking. My whole body was shaking,

58:42

like this whole experience was like, it felt

58:44

like the most immerses thing I've ever seen.

58:46

I went to like, ran out to go

58:48

use the bathroom and like a quiet part,

58:50

and like my body was just vibing. It's

58:52

like when you go to- If you have

58:54

a kidney stone, go do some- Come right

58:57

out. Get right out. But

58:59

like when you get a really good massage, and

59:01

just like for the rest of the day, you're

59:03

just like, oh, my body is just like moving

59:05

with all of this. Like my body was in

59:07

June, it was in Arrakis, even like leaving the

59:09

theater. That's a good thing about that theater experience,

59:11

but I think that's all part and

59:13

parcel, like the sound design, the music,

59:15

everything, like immerses you and puts you

59:17

in this world. This movie is

59:19

almost three hours long. And I was like, I

59:22

need more. I could have sat there for two hours more, you

59:24

know, to be in this. So yeah, I fricking loved it. Yeah.

59:28

Jeff Kanata, I'm so curious, what did you

59:30

think of Dune Part Two? Well,

59:33

Dave, I guess you could

59:35

say what I thought about Dune Part Two

59:37

is best summed up in the form

59:40

of a limerick. You know, I'm

59:42

not sure if Vincenzo is familiar with this. I

59:45

am. I am. I think you

59:47

guys. I am. Oh, good. Well, it's not

59:49

something I would want to put you through,

59:51

but Dave, Dave is a

59:53

monster, and he requires a limerick every

59:55

episode, or he has told us all

59:57

that he will walk. Listen,

1:00:00

I wouldn't do it. When

1:00:02

guests come here, I'm embarrassed for

1:00:04

him, really? But here's

1:00:06

my limerick for Dune Part Two. There's

1:00:10

so many beautiful things that

1:00:12

Villeneuve's artistry brings. And

1:00:15

this generation gets an

1:00:17

adaptation as perfect as Lord

1:00:19

of the Rings. Wow. All

1:00:22

right. I do think this is

1:00:25

comparable on the scale of

1:00:28

genre adaptation, of classic

1:00:31

fulfillment of what you

1:00:33

might want as a fan of

1:00:35

a literary work, as Peter Jackson's

1:00:37

Lord of the Rings was. I

1:00:40

don't think the first Dune

1:00:42

movie, Part One, feels as

1:00:45

satisfying as Fellowship of the Ring, for example, but

1:00:47

we talked about that last time. We're talking about

1:00:49

the sequel to sequel. Does,

1:00:51

to me, hit all the notes

1:00:53

I want. It is interesting to see how it

1:00:58

really tries to reckon with something

1:01:00

that is as outdated

1:01:05

as the Dune novel is, written in

1:01:07

the 60s, I think. A

1:01:09

lot of this movie's changes to

1:01:11

the text are an attempt

1:01:13

to kind of reckon

1:01:16

with a lot of

1:01:18

positions it takes that I think we've

1:01:20

progressed past. And I

1:01:23

think it's really interesting to see how it does

1:01:25

that. And a lot of, I

1:01:27

think, the things that Dune,

1:01:31

as a literary work, inspired.

1:01:33

We've already talked about Star Wars and I

1:01:37

mean, so much of genre

1:01:39

storytelling has been inspired

1:01:42

by Dune. I'm on

1:01:44

my book club show. We're talking

1:01:46

about the Malazan Books of the Fallen by

1:01:49

Steven Erickson. And he has been very explicit

1:01:51

that Dune is the major influence.

1:01:53

And there's so much that

1:01:56

has influenced it. And so to have that

1:02:01

body of references

1:02:03

all in our heads, all the things

1:02:05

that we've seen that were inspired by

1:02:07

this thing, and then to come in

1:02:10

and make a new version of the thing, the

1:02:14

danger is that it will

1:02:16

feel like a retread. Like

1:02:20

it is mining ground that we have already

1:02:22

seen over and over. I think villainous- I

1:02:24

would say an example of that is like

1:02:26

the John Carter movie. I don't know if

1:02:29

you remember that, but that's a property that

1:02:31

inspired so many things. And then the movie

1:02:33

comes out and it feels like- Tired and

1:02:35

stale and it's like, oh, another one

1:02:37

of these. It's like, no, it was the first of these.

1:02:41

So yeah, I think that's a

1:02:43

real challenge with Dune because you

1:02:45

have these tropes that are so

1:02:47

well-worn. This

1:02:50

chosen one, all that stuff,

1:02:54

secret magic powers and ancestry

1:02:58

that is revealed and all that stuff.

1:03:01

And I think it's villainous

1:03:06

skill and ability to

1:03:08

sort of dazzle with the way

1:03:10

that the story is presented and

1:03:12

the visuals of it that

1:03:14

masks a lot of that. But I think the

1:03:18

script does a lot of heavy

1:03:20

lifting too to kind of put emphasis on

1:03:22

other things and acknowledge

1:03:24

that we

1:03:26

have a different perspective on some of that stuff now. And

1:03:29

so a lot of the changes, and we'll get to that

1:03:31

in spoilers, but a lot of the changes, I think, are

1:03:33

really interesting in how the voice

1:03:35

of doubt is put into this movie where

1:03:37

I don't think it really existed in the

1:03:40

novel to my recollection. But

1:03:43

I think just the pure spectacle of

1:03:45

this is worth seeing it alone. Just

1:03:48

the visual and auditory experience of being

1:03:50

inside this movie. We've already talked about

1:03:52

how it shakes your

1:03:54

bones and dazzles your eyes. That

1:03:58

is enough to justify the price. of

1:04:00

admission, but I do think this sequel

1:04:04

fulfills the story

1:04:06

in a way that the first didn't for

1:04:08

me, and it really is so satisfying, those

1:04:11

big beats, those big action moments, it

1:04:13

is a very, I

1:04:16

think, crowd-pleasing movie as well. There are

1:04:19

moments of thrilling,

1:04:22

thrilling action and thrilling,

1:04:25

you know, payoffs

1:04:29

of things that have been set up in that first

1:04:32

movie. So I absolutely

1:04:34

loved it as well, and I

1:04:37

think it is interesting because it is

1:04:39

a clunky story in a lot of ways,

1:04:41

I think, to modern audiences, but I didn't

1:04:44

feel like it was clunky. I feel like

1:04:46

it really rectified that in a lot of

1:04:49

smart ways, and the performances are

1:04:51

awesome, the sound is amazing, I love the score,

1:04:53

I just had a great time with Dune Part

1:04:55

2. Yeah, I agree

1:04:57

with most of everything you guys

1:05:00

have said, specifically what Jeff

1:05:02

Kanata said at the end, this is a movie you

1:05:04

need to go see in a theater. Yep. It

1:05:07

honestly reminds me- IMAX if you can. Yeah, yeah,

1:05:09

in one of the, in IMAX if you can,

1:05:11

and ideally in one of the, I think, 30

1:05:14

screens in the world that have true IMAX.

1:05:19

You know, Jeff Kanata, we talked

1:05:21

last year about Oppenheimer and how

1:05:23

that was a massive movie event.

1:05:25

I remember at my local IMAX

1:05:27

theater, which has true IMAX, when

1:05:30

I went to go see Oppenheimer, that was

1:05:32

the 22nd screening in a row that

1:05:35

was sold out of Oppenheimer, right? Yeah.

1:05:37

And people really- people who journeyed, they,

1:05:39

you know, days off, they traveled to

1:05:42

like go see Oppenheimer and IMAX. See

1:05:44

giant people in a room talking. Right,

1:05:46

and that's the thing is like, yes,

1:05:49

that movie is visually very

1:05:51

interesting, but it's not

1:05:53

an action movie, you know, it didn't

1:05:55

feel like it really took full advantage

1:05:58

of the- Scale. The audio- visual

1:06:00

scale that you can have. I'm not saying

1:06:03

that it didn't take advantage of it at

1:06:05

all. Obviously, seeing, I'm being

1:06:07

100% serious here, seeing

1:06:10

Killian Murphy's face three

1:06:12

stories tall, that

1:06:14

does change the experience of watching Oppo Haimer

1:06:16

in a way that makes it more compelling.

1:06:18

So no sarcasm there. I'm

1:06:20

100% earnest. But this

1:06:23

is the IMAX experience I think we

1:06:25

think of when we think of an

1:06:27

IMAX experience. Devindra mentioned

1:06:30

the scale and I just

1:06:33

want to talk a little bit about that. There's so

1:06:35

many times when you see like human figures and

1:06:38

in the background is either endless dunes

1:06:41

of sand, waves of sand, or

1:06:43

these massive hulking machines. And

1:06:46

you just get a sense of like, oh how tiny

1:06:49

these people are and how small

1:06:51

they are in this huge world

1:06:53

that's been created. You know,

1:06:55

a person riding a sandworm, this is in the

1:06:58

trailer, right? It's like, you just see how insignificant

1:07:00

and small people are, but then how big the

1:07:03

scale of the objects and the settings that

1:07:05

this movie is thinking in. And you also

1:07:07

feel like that as an audience member. Like

1:07:09

it's fun to feel like a little ant

1:07:11

sometimes. And if you see a big screen,

1:07:14

you feel like I'm freaking tiny. It's cower

1:07:16

in awe of what I'm witnessing.

1:07:18

It is an audio-visual spectacle

1:07:21

for the ages. You know,

1:07:23

as we're recording this, we don't know how well the

1:07:26

movie is going to do. But

1:07:28

I hope that it does, by

1:07:30

all accounts, it's gonna do better than the

1:07:32

first movie. I think that's awesome. I think

1:07:34

it's gonna be great for theatrical film going.

1:07:37

I think it's gonna be, it's gonna inspire

1:07:39

a whole generation of artists this movie, these

1:07:41

first two movies of the Dune franchise. So

1:07:45

overall, it's like, if

1:07:47

not a home run, at the very

1:07:50

least a triple, like it's really compelling

1:07:52

stuff and why we go to movies.

1:07:54

It's like a new sci-fi classic, really

1:07:56

enjoyed the movie. Having

1:07:59

said all that... I

1:08:03

do think that this movie buckles

1:08:05

under the weight of trying

1:08:08

to do a little bit too much stuff. The

1:08:10

first movie felt so elegant in all the

1:08:12

stuff that it excluded from the movie. Like,

1:08:15

we don't need an explanation for how spice

1:08:17

works, and we don't need an explanation for

1:08:19

how space travel works and all this other

1:08:21

stuff. And this movie feels

1:08:23

like it's buckling under the weight

1:08:26

of all the new characters that it's

1:08:28

trying to include. Most

1:08:32

of the characters from the first movie, spoiler

1:08:34

for the first movie, died. And so there's

1:08:36

a whole new cast of characters that's introduced,

1:08:38

all new ideas here. The movie's two

1:08:40

hours and 45 minutes long. I'm going to say I don't

1:08:42

think it was long enough. I think we needed a whole

1:08:44

other hour to really learn

1:08:46

more about these characters. If

1:08:49

only there was a book you could read. Indeed. But

1:08:53

I think at the end of

1:08:55

the day, there's big character moments where

1:08:57

I think to myself, oh, I'm supposed to

1:08:59

feel this way about what this character is going

1:09:02

through at this time, when I just don't feel

1:09:04

like I have the build-up that's necessary for

1:09:06

that payoff to happen. So

1:09:08

I'm a little bit mixed on the

1:09:11

plot and the storyteller. And

1:09:14

then, of course, right after that, Denis

1:09:16

Villeneuve gives an interview where he says, I don't think

1:09:19

dialogue is that important in movies. And I'm like, oh,

1:09:21

this makes complete sense. And

1:09:24

that sums up why the movie

1:09:27

is both amazing and also, in

1:09:29

some respects, not great. Because

1:09:31

visually, it's one of the best things I've

1:09:33

seen in my whole entire life. But

1:09:36

from a dialogue storytelling perspective, it's a little bit

1:09:38

rough around the edges. So those are my

1:09:40

thoughts. I kind of fall to him, like it's

1:09:42

the thing. Like I do think sometimes we

1:09:45

are so plot heavy, right? Or

1:09:48

we're so like plot observant that I feel

1:09:50

like a lot of storytelling is

1:09:52

about feeling and emotion. I think what he is doing

1:09:54

is painting a broad,

1:09:56

epic picture at times. And that

1:09:59

does mean a lot of the character level moments may kind

1:10:01

of miss at times, but I don't know. It

1:10:03

just kind of worked for me. The question I

1:10:05

have for all of you though, is what did

1:10:07

you think of Christopher Walken? Because I feel like

1:10:10

he may be the, I love

1:10:12

the man. I love him so much, but

1:10:14

I feel like as, you know, the emperor of

1:10:16

what, the galaxy at this point, or he's amazing.

1:10:19

I felt he was a little too distracting because he's

1:10:22

bringing the Christopher Walken to me, but did he not

1:10:24

distract you guys? I didn't have an issue with that.

1:10:26

I think it was more just like he has probably,

1:10:28

I don't know, 20 lines in the whole movie, you

1:10:30

know? Sure. Sure. And so it's kind

1:10:32

of falls into the thing I said about, about

1:10:34

like not having enough time with these characters. I

1:10:36

think of all these, like, Oscar Isaac in the

1:10:39

first movie who was not in it for very

1:10:41

long, but I think makes a huge impact. Yeah.

1:10:43

And the thing is like, if

1:10:45

Walken himself is not distracting, would somebody have

1:10:47

done better in that show? I

1:10:49

think I see what you're talking about. Like he's not one of the

1:10:51

most memorable parts of the movie for me. But

1:10:53

all that said, Vincenzo Natal, let's go back to you. I'm

1:10:56

curious if you have any reaction to anything we've said so

1:10:58

far about Dune Part 2 or yeah. I

1:11:03

heartily agree with everything. As

1:11:06

a filmmaker, I would and

1:11:09

as someone who's kind of, you know, not on

1:11:11

the level of, nearly the level of Dune, but

1:11:14

who's dipped his toes into these kinds of things.

1:11:18

I want to draw attention to one

1:11:20

of the things I really like about Dune's

1:11:23

approach to world building or his approach

1:11:25

to science fiction. Probably everything he does.

1:11:28

In particular, science fiction, he

1:11:30

does a kind of minimalist

1:11:33

maximism. Maximalism.

1:11:35

Yeah. Maximalism. And

1:11:39

there's a temptation in doing science fiction to

1:11:41

like crowd the frame with a lot of

1:11:43

stuff. And he's

1:11:45

not afraid of simplicity and

1:11:48

emptiness. Yeah. In terms of the visual

1:11:50

design. And a lot of negative space.

1:11:53

A lot of negative space. A lot of

1:11:56

graphical kind of set design and

1:11:58

composition that is. really sophisticated

1:12:01

and elegant. And you know, you see that

1:12:03

in Blade Runner, you see it in the

1:12:05

Arrival, and you really see it

1:12:08

in this part of Dune. I mean, I

1:12:10

love Getty Prime. Like, I just wanted to stay on

1:12:12

Getty Prime. I could have spent another hour there. It

1:12:14

was great. Awesome

1:12:19

observation. And I think it's a really good

1:12:21

point. I love that this

1:12:23

world is sort of devoid of screens. You

1:12:26

know, there's no screens in this world. Or

1:12:29

if there are screens, they're like analog screens. You know, they're

1:12:31

like, yeah, we can't get to they look like they're from

1:12:33

the 80s. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:12:35

It's a it's a really

1:12:38

cool art

1:12:40

directed movie, you know,

1:12:42

that everything feels really

1:12:45

thought through, but also doesn't

1:12:48

look like any other sci fi thing

1:12:50

I've ever seen, you know, they found

1:12:52

new a new

1:12:55

place to go with it, which is really cool.

1:12:57

Which is very difficult to do, by the way,

1:12:59

because so much has already done so well. And

1:13:01

I also feel like

1:13:05

with this one, maybe

1:13:07

because of the story he was telling, but also

1:13:09

probably because the first one was a

1:13:11

success, he was allowed to be a little more

1:13:14

eccentric. I think that there was a very

1:13:16

cruel thing that Alexander

1:13:19

Yatarosky said about the

1:13:21

first part of Doon, or at least the trailer for the

1:13:24

first part of Doon. And for anyone

1:13:26

who doesn't know, Yatarosky was supposed to direct Doon

1:13:28

very famously. Yeah, there's a whole documentary about that,

1:13:30

which is, by the way, one of my favorite

1:13:32

documentaries, period, but especially

1:13:34

about the making of a movie that I

1:13:36

highly recommend called Yatarosky Doon. Anyway,

1:13:39

when he said it's industrial filmmaking,

1:13:44

which I think was unfair, but I do

1:13:46

see his point in that when

1:13:48

he was approaching Doon, he was coming at it such

1:13:50

a creative way, like

1:13:52

so I think from what I could discern,

1:13:55

you know, untethered from the

1:13:58

book, like trying to take it further

1:14:00

and somewhere else and inject his

1:14:02

own imagination into it. Whereas

1:14:04

when we got the first part of Dune, it

1:14:07

was magnificent, but it was very much within

1:14:09

the boundaries of what's

1:14:11

expected. You know, it didn't try

1:14:13

anything terribly daring in terms

1:14:15

of how it approached the material. It just

1:14:17

did it really, really well. This

1:14:20

one, I felt like he was flexing

1:14:22

a little bit and Vilniv

1:14:24

was flexing a little bit and allowing himself

1:14:26

to, you know, use

1:14:28

his imagination and show us things that we

1:14:30

haven't seen before. So I really that was

1:14:32

thrilling for me. But

1:14:35

before I get the spoilers, Vincenzo, I am

1:14:37

wondering if there's anything other than the use

1:14:39

of negative space and composition, is there anything

1:14:41

else that you as a filmmaker thought to

1:14:43

yourself, wow, that must have been difficult to

1:14:45

do, you know, in this movie

1:14:47

that everything I

1:14:49

mean, the other thing I appreciate and I'm

1:14:51

sorry, I'm going to knock

1:14:53

James Cameron a little bit and some

1:14:56

other directors of his generation, okay, I

1:14:58

have the highest respect for him, by

1:15:00

the way. And I even enjoyed Avatar

1:15:02

2, but I

1:15:08

really prefer being in a real

1:15:10

environment. I don't as

1:15:12

beautiful as Avatar 2 is. And I tried

1:15:14

watching that movie, not because of the

1:15:16

movie, but I cried for the animators. Because

1:15:19

I could see how much how painful, like

1:15:22

how many hours, how much work went into

1:15:24

it. So I don't want to denigrate it,

1:15:26

but give me a real

1:15:28

desert. And I feel like this movie, just

1:15:31

as you guys were saying, feels

1:15:33

lived in. Like, I feel like I'm in a real world.

1:15:35

It feels for all of its, you

1:15:37

know, eccentric, wild image,

1:15:39

it actually feels kind of

1:15:41

anthropological and real. And I believe

1:15:43

this play, partially because, you know,

1:15:46

it is just as

1:15:48

the Dune books do, it's sort of riffing off of conflict

1:15:51

in the Middle East and a lot of things that are real. So

1:15:55

I appreciate that.

1:15:57

Like, I love the fact that he goes to

1:15:59

a real location. And that when there

1:16:01

are visual effects, they

1:16:03

don't look like visual effects to me. And that's

1:16:06

where, to answer your question, that's where I'm like,

1:16:08

I don't know. I don't know

1:16:10

how he did the anti-gravity stuff. Doesn't look like wires

1:16:12

to me. Yeah. But also doesn't

1:16:14

look like these are digital people. So

1:16:16

I don't know. I think it's really

1:16:19

impressive. Right. And

1:16:21

as a filmmaker, often when you're watching stuff, you

1:16:23

could probably think, oh, like, this is the

1:16:25

kind of camera and lens he uses. Like

1:16:28

for this movie, you're watching stuff. You don't even know

1:16:30

how it was achieved. Right. And that's

1:16:32

the magic of a Dune party. I thought it

1:16:34

was lovely. And I'm very, that's like

1:16:36

my piccadillo. Like when I see visual effects

1:16:38

that don't look good

1:16:40

to me, it ruins everything for me. I

1:16:43

have a hard time seeing past that. There

1:16:45

is not a moment in this, honestly,

1:16:48

not a moment where I

1:16:50

felt, I really thought, I think it was D.

1:16:53

Negge who did the main vendor for

1:16:55

it. I don't know. I thought

1:16:57

like a lot of this must be models. Like it doesn't

1:16:59

look, you know, before

1:17:02

the movie, they had

1:17:04

a trailer for, sorry,

1:17:06

Kong and Godzilla. Kong,

1:17:08

V Godzilla or something. Kong X Godzilla.

1:17:10

Yeah. By

1:17:13

the way, it looks fun. Like I'm not

1:17:15

knocking at movies. Godzilla X Kong, the new

1:17:17

empire is the name. Right. It's,

1:17:20

you know, again, I won't knock it.

1:17:23

It looks like it's fun. If I were a kid, I'd

1:17:25

love it. But it's totally

1:17:27

digital. Like there's nothing, there's

1:17:30

nothing in that looks and then

1:17:32

partially intentional, probably stylized, but

1:17:34

Dune, it really is. It

1:17:37

looks like they built those things. Yeah. However

1:17:39

they did it. Like it looks like a physical thing, not

1:17:41

something in the hard drives from a kid. Even the sandworms.

1:17:44

Yeah. Yeah. I

1:17:46

think, you know, in our Dune part one after

1:17:48

dark, I talked about how I think

1:17:51

Denis Villeneuve is one of the directors that

1:17:53

is best able to combine

1:17:56

practical and CG. And he

1:17:58

knows, you know, where to go. practical

1:18:00

and where to go CG and there's all these little

1:18:02

details that just sell it and that you might not

1:18:04

even notice Do in part one

1:18:06

when they're first flying into a raucous the city

1:18:10

On the in the ornithopters right and

1:18:12

you see this whole city unfold and it looks like

1:18:14

maybe they built a miniature whatever And as they're flying

1:18:16

as the ornithopters are flying in first of all the

1:18:18

camera Simulates what

1:18:20

a camera would be like if you're actually like

1:18:22

flying in a helicopter But then out of

1:18:25

the city There's like random buildings that have this little steam

1:18:27

coming out of them And it's just like just a little

1:18:29

touch you might not even notice it But it kind of sells

1:18:31

it as a real place and

1:18:34

that's true of so many things in this movie

1:18:36

as well Where it's not like big

1:18:38

flashy like hey where this is a real physical. It's like

1:18:40

just like kind of like oh, yeah, there would be steam

1:18:42

coming out of some or smoke coming out of some things

1:18:44

or whatever, you know, and I

1:18:47

think he's just able to nail those little details

1:18:50

that make it feel real. So Anyway,

1:18:53

any other thoughts before we get to spoilers a lot more discuss

1:18:55

you though. I just want to say that Yeah,

1:18:58

Javier Bardem is the coolest MF or

1:19:00

whoever walked the earth Accent

1:19:06

to I

1:19:09

just love that like He's

1:19:11

kind of goofy in this movie. Mm-hmm, and

1:19:14

he can't not be cool Like this impossible for

1:19:16

him not to be I mean no country for

1:19:18

old men put him in the worst haircut Then

1:19:20

any human has ever had he's still the

1:19:23

coolest MF or ever walked the earth like

1:19:25

that dude just exudes cool No,

1:19:27

I just wanted again again. I want

1:19:29

my leads for maybe dr. Doom. It's

1:19:32

a perfect awesome Butler by the way

1:19:35

I think great as fate wrap like it I Don't

1:19:39

know who's the next person whose voice he will

1:19:41

steal But right now he's still still

1:19:43

scars guards voice like oh, I'm your offspring. I will

1:19:46

just do your voice Never

1:19:48

seen anyone do really a Stellan scars

1:19:50

guard impression before right? Yeah,

1:19:53

he's in like I don't think Dave, but

1:19:55

he's even tried right like oh no, so

1:19:58

he just he's a shot on movie and

1:20:00

then it was like oh I could have been doing this the

1:20:02

whole time. Also

1:20:06

well we will talk about some of this but David T. Simms

1:20:09

movie I think is kind of hilarious because he is just like

1:20:11

he is like a little worm after a

1:20:13

certain point like he's just constantly constantly failing

1:20:16

but yeah spoilers. Alright let's get let's get

1:20:18

the spoilers for Dune part 2 starting right

1:20:20

now. Alright

1:20:23

let's talk about spoilers for Dune part

1:20:25

2. I mean right off the bat

1:20:27

we got

1:20:47

to say one of the most impressive parts of this

1:20:50

movie I think is like for

1:20:52

me the first hour

1:20:54

and 15 minutes of this movie were awesome.

1:20:56

I mean it's it's the part of the

1:20:58

movie that we've seen many times in movies

1:21:01

like Avatar or you know Dances with

1:21:03

Wolves or whatever it's like it's the

1:21:05

white dude integrating with the society that

1:21:07

he's trying to be part of but it

1:21:10

is really thrilling he's he's learning their ways and

1:21:12

then of course it culminates with him riding the

1:21:14

sand worm and that whole sequence

1:21:17

was incredible. That is the thing that

1:21:19

basically the the seat transducers were just

1:21:21

like going off fire for like 30

1:21:24

minutes I was like riding that worm

1:21:26

with him. It's true and even in

1:21:28

the Lymax that I saw with the

1:21:31

sound was rumbling that sequence is

1:21:34

incredible. We've

1:21:36

seen people riding a sand

1:21:38

worm in Dune part 1 we

1:21:40

saw what's her name Leah Kynes I think

1:21:42

tried to ride a sand worm it didn't

1:21:45

work out that maybe kept really yanking out

1:21:47

the sandworming from her right she was getting

1:21:49

ready she's getting ready to

1:21:51

ride. Doing a lot of sandworm edging

1:21:53

in Dune part 1. Then

1:21:55

we see somebody off in the distance riding a

1:21:57

sandworm. And

1:22:00

then Dune Part 2 happens and it's like,

1:22:02

okay, they're finally gonna show it happening. Yes.

1:22:07

And I'm like, how are they gonna

1:22:09

do this in a way that actually adds something

1:22:11

to what we know about the same worm? Oh,

1:22:13

it doesn't look super silly. Like the idea of

1:22:15

writing a worm, you know, a desert worm. Inherently

1:22:18

a little silly. Somehow he made

1:22:21

it work. Yeah. And the way, you know, I'll throw

1:22:23

out a few tools, cinematic tools that they use to

1:22:25

do this. First of all, we talked in the first

1:22:27

part of the review about how, you know, it shows

1:22:29

him tiny guy standing on this

1:22:31

massive, you know, sand dune. And then like

1:22:33

this massive sand word off of the distance.

1:22:36

Everyone has great Spielberg-esque reactions of, yeah, oh

1:22:38

my God, not that big. That's too big.

1:22:41

The running parallel. Right. Oh, such a great

1:22:43

shot. Cool. And then so then he gets

1:22:45

on and he tries to jump on and

1:22:47

it's like just chaos. Like you can't see

1:22:50

anything at all. It's just sand everywhere. He can't see

1:22:52

anything. He finally gets on and

1:22:54

there is texture to this sandworm thing. Like

1:22:56

he has hooks on and you see where

1:22:58

the hook goes into the sandworm and it

1:23:00

pulls up and you see like little holes

1:23:02

on the side of the worm. All

1:23:05

these little details just sell it. The

1:23:07

only thing that's funny about that to me

1:23:10

is that later when mom's palanquin is on

1:23:12

that, I'm like, did they go through that

1:23:14

to get mom and the team on there?

1:23:16

Like Uber on Arrakis. I'm

1:23:19

going to call it sandworm. I've been skating

1:23:21

Ubers before, but that's... But

1:23:26

anyway, that's probably one of the biggest highlights

1:23:28

of the movie. Yeah, so good. Riding the

1:23:31

sand, all the sandworm stuff. Dude, there's so

1:23:33

many highlights in the movie. All of the

1:23:35

sort of rebels

1:23:38

against the empire, terrorist,

1:23:41

you know, destruction of

1:23:43

the... Like

1:23:46

the temple, you know, all the

1:23:49

mining equipment. Oh,

1:23:52

yeah, that part was... But the best scene

1:23:54

from the first movie and the best scene

1:23:57

from this movie both had to do with

1:23:59

spice mining. It's like when

1:24:03

Chani takes the bazooka or whatever. Shoots

1:24:06

the dude and he goes flying across

1:24:08

the screen. Incredible. And just the methodology,

1:24:10

their tactics on

1:24:16

how they take down

1:24:18

these things and

1:24:21

the orthocopter has a shield. So it has

1:24:23

a shield as well. So they can't have

1:24:25

the shield up when they're shooting. So you

1:24:27

gotta take that down. And the lasers do

1:24:29

the things from way far away and all

1:24:31

just in just. One

1:24:34

of my favorite touches from the movie is when

1:24:37

she launches the surface to

1:24:39

air missile or whatever, or whatever

1:24:42

it's called, RPG, whatever it's called. And then it

1:24:44

hits the thing. And then you see her booking

1:24:46

it, she's just running. And there's

1:24:49

complete silence. It just is silence

1:24:51

and you hear her like the steps and

1:24:53

you hear her breathing heavily. And then boom,

1:24:55

it hits the ground and massive explosion behind

1:24:57

her. And that's kind of negative

1:25:00

space. The audio version has been gentle. He

1:25:03

knows like there's silence. He does it twice. He

1:25:07

does it when Josh Brolin is walking, Rogaso does

1:25:09

it, thank you. Yeah. He

1:25:11

can't resist. But it's great. It's great. So

1:25:14

bad. The first sequence too where they go

1:25:16

underneath the thing as it crumples across the.

1:25:19

Just thrilling. And you really see

1:25:21

that, you know, that gritty,

1:25:26

they're overwhelming odds, but they got

1:25:29

that, you know, that ability

1:25:31

to be the thorn in the side

1:25:33

of the giant, you know, they're David

1:25:35

versus Goliath. It's so good. Yeah.

1:25:38

So good. I

1:25:40

am curious like how some of these other

1:25:42

sort of plot elements worked

1:25:44

for you because for me, I was

1:25:46

so engrossed in this whole

1:25:49

Paul journey. And then the

1:25:51

movie just kind of grinds to a halt to like

1:25:53

introduce Fade Routh out for me. Fade Routh a very

1:25:55

compelling guy and like all this stuff fighting in the

1:25:58

Coliseum and stuff. I Do love. Her

1:26:01

for excuse like reaction to

1:26:04

that they'd mathis he psychotic

1:26:06

A waste he says is

1:26:08

that's everything yeah everything about

1:26:10

this do yeah l but.

1:26:13

And then we kind of get wrapped up in

1:26:15

oldest and of more Game of Thrones us this

1:26:17

of which is like a definitely a buddy sick

1:26:19

com between him and her at the day but

1:26:22

he says character Davis' to keep sucking up and

1:26:24

feed Ruff exhorts buddy come on I'm going to

1:26:26

take over because you're you're miss you. Can he

1:26:28

be can find this guy? Yeah The Dave what

1:26:30

he is the felt a little bit like a

1:26:33

missed opportunity to be. yeah say because there's something

1:26:35

really compelling about. As. A

1:26:37

bad ass guy like they battista. Who.

1:26:39

Can't Succeed week he trying to keeps

1:26:41

failing and is v something really tragic

1:26:43

to that and I feel like when

1:26:46

that character eventually is killed. Isis.

1:26:48

Feel like oh like that that sad

1:26:50

that he died. but it's like yes,

1:26:52

as bad as said. You know. Gurney.

1:26:56

Halleck finally gets his revenge for the horrifying

1:26:58

massacre we saw the first movie, but It's

1:27:00

A Cell. So quick and perfunctory to me

1:27:03

and that the it's kind of. Kind

1:27:06

of. Is emblematic of

1:27:08

them the flaws us on the heels of wouldn't

1:27:10

have think like a hundred the day but he

1:27:12

cigar to rhyming. I can agree I would have

1:27:14

listened more but he says in every that I

1:27:16

will i will never seen as but he said

1:27:18

but he's also talked about Villeneuve as being the

1:27:20

first director whose like know you're good at this

1:27:22

you are a good actor and that made him

1:27:24

feel so great in a in blade runner cause

1:27:26

but these a habit Amazing opening sequence of agree.

1:27:29

Could. Have had more. I could have handled more

1:27:31

of a lot of thing them as maybe

1:27:33

that's kind of the way the way it is.

1:27:35

We should talk about how weird it is that

1:27:37

you know they're talking to paul sister while

1:27:39

sees in the womb that whole that whole

1:27:41

thing how they even sell it like early

1:27:43

on your just like oh this is a

1:27:45

sort of it's have a baby in the womb

1:27:48

oh yes is pregnant. That's.

1:27:50

A character now that the characters the

1:27:52

speaking through the mother. that is weird

1:27:54

since the wild yeah me as way

1:27:56

weirder in the book am Sam. That.

1:28:00

Because she is like born in

1:28:02

the timeline that's covered in the movie

1:28:04

in the book. No, boy. She's

1:28:06

like toddler who knows everything. Very

1:28:09

odd. But before

1:28:12

you get off the Batista thing, I love

1:28:14

that sequence where he's all, you

1:28:16

know, Sturm and Drong, fiery, gonna

1:28:18

bring hell down on them, gets

1:28:20

there and then they all attack and he's like,

1:28:23

well, let's get out of here. Let's get everybody

1:28:25

out of here. And he gets saved by like

1:28:27

the skin of his, like he gets saved because

1:28:29

one of his underlings like manages to save his

1:28:32

ass. Like being a dude the size and you

1:28:34

know, intensity of him like scared out

1:28:37

of his wits was very cool. It's

1:28:40

inherently, that's an inherently interesting thing to

1:28:42

watch. So I agree with you there. But

1:28:45

anyway, the

1:28:47

Florence Pugh stuff, you know, it was another thing where I'm

1:28:50

like, I feel like I don't really know this character. By

1:28:53

the end of the movie, she, there's

1:28:55

this really amazing, I thought

1:28:57

the ending was actually quite compelling the last

1:28:59

like 20 minutes or so, where

1:29:03

she kind of, Paul

1:29:05

talks in the first movie about how he's

1:29:07

going to marry the Emperor's daughter and bring,

1:29:10

you know,

1:29:13

triumph over the other houses

1:29:15

and bring paradise to Arrakis. That's kind of

1:29:17

what my sense is of what his goal

1:29:19

is. But it will require a lot of

1:29:21

dead bodies on the way. And

1:29:24

Florence Pugh kind of interjects at the end. Like, hey, you know,

1:29:26

I will go peace. I will be

1:29:28

your bride peacefully if you just spare my father.

1:29:31

But it's like, I just I don't have any

1:29:33

access to that character's interiority. I don't think I

1:29:35

mean, because we're all in Paul and Paul spends

1:29:37

most of the movie being like, I don't want

1:29:39

to do this. I don't want I'm

1:29:42

rejecting these visions that I'm seeing because billions of

1:29:44

people will die. I think

1:29:46

it's a really interesting conflict for a character like

1:29:48

him. It's sort of like if Anakin Skywalker had

1:29:50

the premonitions of like what he would become, what

1:29:52

he would end up choosing to do. That's

1:29:55

kind of where we're at here. Yeah. Yeah.

1:29:58

I agree. Yeah, I

1:30:00

would have liked to see. Listen, more Florence P.

1:30:02

More everybody. Make this like a thing that I'm

1:30:05

just sitting in the theater for six hours for

1:30:07

it, please. Well, I think the character of Chani

1:30:09

is very interesting. Zendaya's character in the movie is

1:30:12

I think one of the biggest

1:30:15

changes to the text. And

1:30:18

I think really kind of reveals our

1:30:20

modern sensibilities, which is like, hey,

1:30:23

the chosen one getting all

1:30:25

the power, or maybe

1:30:27

it's not a great thing. Maybe everybody

1:30:29

falling in line and deciding this guy

1:30:31

is going to waltz into our society

1:30:34

and be the greatest one of us

1:30:36

ever. Not such a good idea. None of that's

1:30:39

in the book. She's

1:30:41

on Team Waddib

1:30:45

wholeheartedly in the novels. And I think that's

1:30:47

a really strong choice for

1:30:50

a modern film to do to have that voice

1:30:52

of doubt of like, is everybody

1:30:54

seeing this? Let's not do this. This is

1:30:56

weird, but also she loves him to

1:30:59

you. So it's like, I don't like the

1:31:01

guy, but let's be careful here. I got

1:31:04

to say their relationship was the emotional

1:31:06

core of the movie for me. And it did work.

1:31:09

There is this amazing, I mean, I got to say, you

1:31:11

know, for Paul to make the moves he made, I don't

1:31:13

think he didn't soften

1:31:15

the ground for any of those decisions. The very

1:31:18

end of the movie, he gave her a heads

1:31:20

up. I will love you as long as I

1:31:22

breathe. And then he literally turns around and he's

1:31:24

like, all right, Emperor's daughter, we're getting married. And

1:31:27

then she's just, there's a shock on her

1:31:29

face. That's really well done. Vincenta,

1:31:34

what do you think of the central Paul

1:31:37

Chani relationship in Dune Part Two? Well,

1:31:41

you brought up a lot of things that were very interesting to me.

1:31:43

Yeah, I hit the

1:31:45

ball in succession. So I liked

1:31:47

it. But

1:31:50

if I have a

1:31:52

bone to pick with a movie, it's in

1:31:54

this film, and Maybe something I

1:31:56

missed, but I wasn't quite charting his.

1:32:00

Didn't like idea vote on like you

1:32:02

are think of inter I wanted more

1:32:05

the video as a more to more

1:32:07

tying run the up to follow that.

1:32:09

Thought. Process because he joe clearly.

1:32:12

Not wanting to go down that road and in

1:32:14

somewhere and I missed it. Maybe it's there. But.

1:32:17

I it went past me them because he. Decided.

1:32:20

To go for it. All said, he's

1:32:22

out there with like a big hassle

1:32:24

or whatever it is. he's angry, like

1:32:26

he's another thing I was in his.

1:32:30

I don't know how we got there I did.

1:32:32

He got something that was missing in action pulled

1:32:34

out of the film the I think it happens

1:32:36

around the time when he drinks the sand worm

1:32:38

blue juice. That's where the says with this is

1:32:41

is like read do your thing get a full

1:32:43

you just the man rent says it's kind of

1:32:45

a plot see a little bit I think but

1:32:47

I do think it's really cool how they show

1:32:50

the sandworms booties being extracted as a whole. amazing

1:32:52

that with it for hims with the end of

1:32:54

the shallow water microphone the thing or another that's

1:32:56

another one of those of like. How.

1:32:58

Much of that Cg is us is

1:33:01

a puppet. you know, like So cool.

1:33:03

Yeah, yeah. and there's a rule t

1:33:05

to the movie that I appreciate. Like

1:33:07

I think that. Would. The hope

1:33:09

always was for dune in all of it's.

1:33:12

So. Much can television incarnations is will this is

1:33:14

going to be. Star. Wars for adults like

1:33:16

this is going to be. You. Know your

1:33:18

adult space opera as opposed to your

1:33:21

kitty space opera. And. And I

1:33:23

do feel like it fulfills that promise

1:33:25

because there's There are shades of grey

1:33:27

and there is a kind of. Brutality.

1:33:31

That feels. Real. You

1:33:34

know that isn't sugar coated and into the

1:33:36

from and. The. Killed That isn't fair

1:33:38

enough. I feel sorry for the worm

1:33:40

as soon as he does Ruin whatever

1:33:43

the priestess river does, it is it

1:33:45

out delighted like he feels no compassion

1:33:47

for the fourth. What so effortless sucking

1:33:49

as you thought of drowning it and

1:33:51

waters. As and I

1:33:53

like that because it feels authentic. Yeah

1:33:56

I was right when you mentioned as or

1:33:58

it respective is like. Pretty.

1:34:00

Dark, dark, several other. they're just using everybody

1:34:03

as pawns. Their plan a long game every

1:34:05

it. it's very cruel. As you said I

1:34:07

think that I was working for use by

1:34:09

the whole plan to below could we be

1:34:11

the another pawn? Just the case is Paul

1:34:14

thing about how laid out live we we

1:34:16

took it out were so they gone too

1:34:18

far. fried food Rosa in the movie there

1:34:20

wasn't Meant is that I now understand would

1:34:22

accept that as a system for yeah they

1:34:24

put up for the gone to bar and

1:34:27

that's why you come to find yourself. Why

1:34:29

didn't. I

1:34:33

whenever I want to bring up the worm sequence

1:34:35

by the way the baby were him that was

1:34:37

very vincenzo sequence like I had some advice vibes

1:34:40

there consent like oh I was ten when really

1:34:42

wish you would think of this massive misses any

1:34:44

of this is a tv show Yeah since I

1:34:46

would have directed as the baby worm sequence. You

1:34:49

To Be A Citizen to direct the Baby Worms sequence of

1:34:51

I Sell It For the Baby Boomer. While

1:34:55

lying in the movie. Oh. Wow,

1:34:57

that's the Cassie related most. I

1:34:59

was elated. or ssssss missile cruisers

1:35:01

a sneaky of it as a

1:35:03

surrounded and his wife. Wants

1:35:06

to swim? Ah but I guess it's the

1:35:09

I think there's some of their. Like

1:35:13

there's a little bit of Paul missing and I have

1:35:15

an some you know. I liked him as he saw

1:35:17

me a lot. But a our

1:35:19

know how other people feel that this

1:35:22

I do find him to be a

1:35:24

bit affected. Like. That whole whispers

1:35:26

like is crisp. And

1:35:28

I feel. I.

1:35:30

Don't. Find. Him.

1:35:34

Terribly. Prismatic. Be honest I said, I

1:35:36

don't know. I think it's a hard part to

1:35:38

play. Think Paul is very. Not

1:35:41

terribly nuanced as a character as

1:35:43

a. Just

1:35:45

as the nature of the character, But.

1:35:47

At that I would love to like seen

1:35:50

a little more of. His. Journey

1:35:52

carved into the. Story.

1:35:54

And it it felt sometimes that

1:35:56

calls note see. What?

1:35:59

You know? where we. From one place to another with

1:36:01

him. I'll. Just say that he typically

1:36:03

tell me really pleasantly surprised me in

1:36:05

this film so I have opposite reaction

1:36:07

were maybe pro before going into this

1:36:10

movie I wouldn't have believed that similar

1:36:12

shall make a get up in front

1:36:14

of say five thousand people and give

1:36:16

a really rousing citizen or and get

1:36:18

everyone on board to follow him as

1:36:20

a leader. Amber I thought he'd

1:36:22

not that one out of park I the

1:36:24

idling I got themselves. I got some shills

1:36:27

in that scene and. And. Of course,

1:36:29

there's also like. A darker aspect that

1:36:31

seen you know that becomes clear by the

1:36:33

end of the film pay the Smell like

1:36:35

a really sells the Be Gloria facism to

1:36:37

you. Doesn't mean you're probably going to die

1:36:39

for for whatever my galactic misses his but

1:36:42

you're going to feel could be exciting. As

1:36:45

far as a preventive a party,

1:36:47

he really felt it. I

1:36:50

don't even know if I described as fast as may.

1:36:52

I think it's more like of a lazy as it

1:36:54

is as they put have been like a holy war.

1:36:56

The religious it is zealotry of it merited like that

1:36:59

mean that that's a big part. Yeah yeah I don't

1:37:01

know that the same as a it feels like a

1:37:03

different thing than fascism the little bit but as a

1:37:05

different flavor. It's it's

1:37:07

still could. being controlled by power and

1:37:10

using that power to to kill billions

1:37:12

seen as fast as it after you

1:37:14

win the holy war with Syria has

1:37:17

her. Yes, that's correct. Of

1:37:20

but anyway I loved the choreography of

1:37:22

that fine all us storming of the

1:37:24

emperor's teamer who who hum although bad

1:37:26

attitudes like okay here we go with

1:37:28

go an alias as you nothing you

1:37:30

never see you here he's offering any

1:37:33

they have. Some whoa

1:37:35

officials in one day but in the ropes.

1:37:37

And then he just took his really

1:37:39

ignore the emperor he wanted out and

1:37:41

murderers hurt murders the baron and is

1:37:43

like okay so i can for a

1:37:45

football. i had never seen it

1:37:47

played quite like that and i thought that

1:37:49

was has a neat way of handling it's

1:37:52

a great way to not have pursued an

1:37:54

intricate action sequences well i think it would

1:37:56

it's a sales jobs potency of what's happening

1:37:58

like there There was, these

1:38:00

are the coolest dudes the Emperor has to fight

1:38:02

and there was no problem at all.

1:38:05

Not, you don't hear the fight, you

1:38:07

don't see it, like they're so powerful.

1:38:10

These guys are just, they just walked right through.

1:38:12

Yeah, so cool. Yeah, I do think that- And

1:38:14

that Emperor is such a non-threat that they can

1:38:16

just ignore him. Yeah, it's

1:38:19

the coolest. Yeah. NBD,

1:38:21

NBD, NBD Emperor. Yeah, but I

1:38:23

do think that, you know, to Vincenzo's point, I do

1:38:25

think like Paul's motivations at the end were a little

1:38:27

bit, like he finds out he's a Harkonnen and

1:38:30

it's like, what is the impact of that? And then he kills his

1:38:33

grandfather and then he kills his

1:38:35

cousin, I want to say at the end. And

1:38:37

it's like, what is his reaction to any of those things? I don't

1:38:39

feel like I really get where his

1:38:41

head- He's a little like spice frenzied at that

1:38:43

point or like frenzied by like the thing, the

1:38:46

blue thing that he drank, because his eyes got

1:38:48

super blue. So how much of that is

1:38:50

him and how much of that is like the

1:38:53

prophecy kind of propelling him forward too?

1:38:55

I don't know. I think I think of the

1:38:57

fact that both this movie and the last movie

1:39:00

have some of the most large

1:39:02

scale fight sequences, sequences, action scenes

1:39:04

ever. And both movies choose

1:39:06

to end with Paul in a one-on-one

1:39:08

fight. Love it. More, that's cool. I'm

1:39:12

curious, they're both good fights. You know, I think

1:39:14

they're both like, they both have

1:39:16

compelling things about them. But

1:39:18

I just think it's an interesting choice. Vincenzo, you know, what

1:39:22

are your thoughts on that? You haven't really made action movies

1:39:24

per se, as far as I can recall. But

1:39:27

I'm curious like how you, what you think about the

1:39:29

idea of like ending with something small after having done

1:39:31

so many big things. Well, I think the

1:39:33

first thing you said early on was, you

1:39:36

know, Dennyville knew so good with scale.

1:39:38

Yeah. So part of scale is knowing

1:39:41

when to go big and wide. You

1:39:44

have a wide perspective and show the little person next

1:39:46

to the giant worm. And then the other part

1:39:48

of scale is to like, know when to be very intimate. And

1:39:52

I think one of the big problems with action

1:39:55

movies or superhero movies these days is they just

1:39:57

stay in this scale. It's

1:39:59

so... massive that you

1:40:02

stop relating to it. And

1:40:06

what he does very effectively, and I do think

1:40:08

it's from the book, is with that last fight,

1:40:10

it's a mano-mano knife fight. And you

1:40:13

feel that much more than you would

1:40:16

when an army is being crushed by a

1:40:18

sandworm. Like it's so visceral and intimate. So

1:40:22

yeah, I think he handles all

1:40:24

that kind of thing beautifully. I

1:40:29

think it's important. I think that's one of

1:40:31

the big lessons with these epics is that

1:40:33

there has to be some kind of balance

1:40:36

where you pay

1:40:39

homage to the size of what you're dealing

1:40:42

with, the awesomeness of what you're dealing with,

1:40:44

and yet somehow contextualize it on this very

1:40:46

human level. So

1:40:51

Danny Villeneuve has said that if this movie

1:40:53

works out, he's going to make a Dune

1:40:55

Part 3, and that will be the final

1:40:57

film of the franchise. The

1:40:59

next six books in one movie. Is

1:41:03

that true? I thought it was just going to be Dune Messiah,

1:41:05

right? I was joking. Totally joking. But

1:41:08

yeah, I guess as we... I

1:41:11

don't want to speculate on the plot of that movie because

1:41:13

a lot of people haven't read the book, and I

1:41:15

don't want to spoil it for them. But

1:41:17

I guess I'm curious where this movie leaves

1:41:19

you emotionally, because here's the thing, Jeff,

1:41:22

you could argue the same thing

1:41:24

that you argued about the first movie, which is...

1:41:26

I don't agree. I don't agree with that. This movie

1:41:28

does leave on a bit of a cliffhanger. Let's put

1:41:30

it that way. It does leave like, hey,

1:41:33

some massive thing is about to start, and

1:41:35

then the movie just ends. But Jeff,

1:41:37

go ahead. What was your reaction to the end of this? I think

1:41:40

for me, the end of the

1:41:42

first movie is literally an

1:41:44

ellipsis. It's dot, dot, dot. And

1:41:48

the end of this one is

1:41:51

there's another chapter to this story. I

1:41:53

think there's a distinction between those two.

1:41:55

I think this has a climax. a

1:42:00

conclusion, a new place that everyone has arrived. I

1:42:02

mean, you could argue that people are in a

1:42:04

new place in the end of the first film,

1:42:07

but the place is a question

1:42:09

mark. And the question mark

1:42:11

here, I think, comes as

1:42:15

you are with a lot of stories like,

1:42:17

well, what comes next, rather than how

1:42:20

does this end? I think the first

1:42:22

movie is how does this thing end?

1:42:24

We know what happened. I

1:42:27

feel like our main antagonists

1:42:29

have been vanquished. Our hero has

1:42:31

achieved something. There is

1:42:33

more to tell, but not in the same way at

1:42:35

the end of the first film, where it literally is

1:42:37

nothing has been resolved. Yeah. Yeah. We have to get

1:42:39

a conclusion to a story, which I think is kind

1:42:41

of key about this one. But I do agree. I'm

1:42:44

kind of left the same way. I'm like, more

1:42:46

Dune. More Dune, please. Now I

1:42:48

need more Dune. And it would suck if

1:42:50

the third one never got made

1:42:53

after watching this. It would. I think it

1:42:55

would. But, Jens, if any thoughts on where

1:42:57

this one ends? No, I mean, it's the

1:42:59

end of the book. It's everything as it

1:43:02

should be. But I think that unlike the

1:43:04

David Lynch one, you see where it

1:43:07

is a little more Star Wars-y actually, and that the good

1:43:09

guys win. It actually rains on Arrakis, which is just a

1:43:12

fact of bad thing, because that would kill

1:43:14

all the sandworms. But it's supposed

1:43:16

to make us feel good.

1:43:18

This movie ends with Paul,