0:00

I miss a green. For example, I'm already

0:02

upset when I find my bomb the bumper.

0:04

Not really upset. Don't want my find my

0:06

ball in a bride egg Friday The dreaded

0:08

Friday Friday Cried and cried and cried and.

0:11

Cried at Lie. I'm about ready to run off

0:13

with the hum courts. Welcome

0:34

back to another edition of. The

0:36

Friday Golf Podcast I'm your Host

0:39

Eddie Johnson we've got great showed

0:41

That Excited about it actually. We.

0:44

Had Gary Young he is one of

0:46

the Pg a tourist chief referees on

0:48

to talk all things Pj to are

0:50

set up as me and just have

0:52

one minute talking. With Gary.

0:55

It. Was enlightening. There is a lot

0:57

of stuff I learned from it about.

0:59

How they're they. They go. About

1:02

setting up a golf course for Pj

1:04

Tour event and then we talked about

1:06

some of the hot topics are T

1:09

I O Pace play, preferred lies, all

1:11

sorts. this stuff so is really fun.

1:13

Chat with Gary I appreciate him. Come

1:16

on and you know. Answer

1:18

and history questions, Answered questions that

1:20

an idiot like me has about

1:23

what he does First First job.

1:25

But. Ah, before we get to that, we

1:27

gotta do in and out. Joseph.

1:30

What? Are you in on this week? Andy.

1:32

I am in on signature

1:35

events with a cut. This.

1:37

Week at the Genesis Invitational, we're

1:40

going to see the first signature

1:42

event in Fiji. Tours new model

1:44

with a limited field and a

1:46

caught. So. Field of about

1:48

eighty players, they're going to cut down to

1:50

the top fifty and ties after two days.

1:53

I. Think that is a wonderful recipe

1:55

for the modern. Golf. Products and

1:57

I would love to see more of

1:59

these signal. There are events limited fields

2:01

that don't have a cut. Implement

2:04

a cut. I think it adds

2:06

something. It's additive. It. Introduces some

2:08

competitiveness to be event in makes it not

2:10

be elected Wgc were guys are climbing from

2:12

T Sixty one to T Forty eight on

2:14

Sunday that that really don't need to be

2:16

on the golf course so I think people

2:18

are really gonna lights that outlined this week

2:21

it Riviera and it's not that I'm excited

2:23

about I think the signature of and should

2:25

have a cat mine so that's what I'm

2:27

in on. I

2:29

almost went with the salsa zola. What

2:31

I was is odd but I completely

2:33

agree the other think the other there's

2:35

for see that this week as the

2:38

waste management is barreling. End of the

2:40

Super Bowl is as well as we

2:42

record this segment of this podcast it

2:44

is is is on I thought this

2:46

was can be over I thought we're

2:48

going to be dealt with as but

2:50

you know when you have a big

2:52

feel that in in any players. On

2:55

a weekend is a big field. That's what they

2:57

cut to on the Pj. Toward the cut. Actually

2:59

often to less than eighty players,

3:01

so the signature events often feature

3:03

more players other weekend that a

3:06

regular vest. So cutting

3:08

it down to fifty it gives you

3:10

a lot of flexibility. You can withstand

3:12

weather delay, you can arm move t

3:14

times around easier. You know one of

3:16

the things that makes the product way

3:18

better and Gary touched on this is

3:21

t time spacing and number of players

3:23

so if you could go to to

3:25

some since spaces out twelve minutes it

3:27

makes the pace of play the product

3:29

better. This is a big I. I

3:31

completely agree on one thing I met

3:33

on. And this is

3:36

reactive to yesterday's telecasts is is

3:38

trying new things with the telecasts.

3:40

Ah I thought that kisser and

3:42

smiley and sixteen were wonderful. It

3:45

was just like a nice. Different

3:47

thing. Ah, I'm. And

3:50

I think the key to this is not

3:52

being locked in and kids in in like

3:54

they're gonna look at this and be like

3:56

we can do this. All.

3:58

Over the place like we the do

4:00

this everywhere and isn't that sad? The

4:02

take away here. The. Key

4:05

here is that this worked really well

4:07

as this. Event because it fits

4:09

this event like the whole atmosphere

4:11

of sixteen lends itself so well

4:13

said that. That. Little

4:15

broadcasts snippet. Like

4:18

them sitting there, talking through, talking

4:20

about the atmosphere, all the things

4:22

that went into that it works

4:24

so well. right? There. The.

4:27

Key to this idea is finding something

4:29

like that at every event across the

4:32

board and is not always going to

4:34

be the same thing so that that

4:36

style might work well. A few

4:38

other places on the Pc a tour

4:41

where there's holes that have a similar

4:43

atmosphere or steaks and you know that

4:45

that tied to it. The the

4:47

other key is finding. Different.

4:50

Formats of that type of idea

4:52

like a different broadcasts. Different.

4:55

Formats of it that fit. You.

4:57

Know. A nother specific event

5:00

at Riviera? Maybe it's people sitting

5:02

and talking about ten or another

5:04

hole, right? Just tainted

5:07

up try new stuff but I

5:09

loved the initiative to try something

5:11

new. I agree with your age

5:13

or not to be negative adding. The.

5:16

There. Was a little sacrifice on some of the

5:18

shots from the players and intention so I have

5:20

a with a problem with that on Saturday night

5:22

but. Smiley. And seven

5:25

two hundred themselves were great and I loved

5:27

that feed and seeing. All. Those shots

5:29

on sixteen so I think there's a balance there.

5:31

Like also need to show the shots from the

5:33

players in contention. But. I totally agree with

5:35

the of that I was there was a great feat. I

5:38

think it was a unique situation. also.

5:40

I mean like Saturday of that events

5:43

always gonna be about sixteen. But there

5:45

is also the unique situation of like

5:47

the weather delays right? What?

5:49

Are you out on. Ah, this

5:51

is gonna be an old person yelling at

5:54

cloud teeth and the but you're not even

5:56

old I know that's what's crazy about it,

5:58

but I am out on. Celebrating

6:01

drunkenness specifically at the

6:03

Waste Management Phoenix Open.

6:06

These. These. Videos of people

6:08

like falling over drunk on the

6:10

cart path. I think

6:13

this year's Phoenix open got a little out

6:15

of control and when you kind of. The.

6:17

Brand of the Phoenix Open. I think they do

6:19

a lot of things rights my favorite events of

6:22

the year, but the more heard of that the

6:24

rowdiness is celebrated. I think it attracts a certain

6:26

type of person and things may be got a

6:28

little bit out of control this year. I love

6:30

a lot about the Phoenix Open a been I

6:33

was drinking I'm all for it, but I think

6:35

some of the like. The. Viral clips

6:37

of people peeing on themselves and stuff. Maybe if

6:39

we cut back on some of that, we don't

6:41

have as many fans yelling at players and taken

6:43

away from some of the event so that the

6:45

about on that what you think about that in

6:47

the. I thought about this

6:49

a lot and I just think this

6:51

is just in general the natural Persia

6:53

progression. Of. The. Way

6:56

these things work right? Arm.

6:59

Is that? You. Get an

7:01

identity everybody signs out how cool

7:03

is and as super fine this

7:05

a party atmosphere is. You need

7:08

to the tour. And. The sewer

7:10

leaned in do at night own have like a

7:12

problem with i'm leaning into it. But

7:14

this is the natural progression of how

7:17

these things work. Ah, I went

7:19

to the University of Illinois. it's

7:21

known for it's unofficial St. Patrick's

7:23

Day party. Ah I'm a way

7:25

it was a big deal when I was

7:27

their arm. I think it's still big deal

7:29

now, but it was like this day was

7:32

a Friday. Everybody just got wasted. And.

7:34

It you know. Listen I partake to i

7:36

enjoyed it but every year your their it

7:38

gets a little the worse because you get

7:40

more more people come from in from out

7:42

of town. More it becomes less and less

7:44

of a home grown type events and I

7:46

think that's one of the things that happens

7:49

here is like. With. this with

7:51

the with waste management it's just evolved

7:53

into this and and what it is

7:55

is that people come in from all

7:57

over the country to party and celebrate

7:59

and it's allies about like this is

8:01

Phoenix's event, right? It's people that come

8:03

in, it's their expectation, they treat it

8:06

like a bachelor party day and

8:08

you know this is just the natural progression

8:11

that's going to happen and it happens

8:13

with all sorts of things. It happens

8:15

with golf course design where you know

8:17

once you say, oh we're going to

8:19

start you know narrowing

8:21

fairways and growing rough like one

8:23

course does it, one course does it a little bit

8:26

more, one course does a little bit more. This is

8:28

the way society works. So I don't

8:30

know where you go from here if you're the

8:32

waste management. It clearly did. I had

8:34

some friends that were on site had

8:37

an awesome time but they they were

8:39

like you know they cut off alcohol sales.

8:41

I talked, one of them talked to a

8:43

police officer that said that like 130 people

8:46

were taken out on stretchers.

8:49

I don't know how you rein

8:51

this back in because the PGA tour

8:53

has leaned so far into what it

8:55

is that it seems very hard. I

8:57

don't know what to do. I'm glad

8:59

I don't have to decide this but

9:02

yes this is just what happens to

9:04

things that are deemed cool is that

9:06

this is they spiral out

9:08

of control. That was a long-winded answer. No

9:10

look I agree with you. I think a lot of

9:12

things about it are great, right? Like even having a

9:14

party identity is fine but I think it's gotten a

9:16

little out of control and I agree with you. I

9:18

don't know exactly what you do to rein it back

9:20

in but all right Andy what are you out on?

9:25

I so respect low

9:27

scores. I

9:29

love them but I just

9:31

am gonna say that the number, the

9:34

scores in the 50s no longer

9:36

has the same cachet that it used to.

9:38

We saw a 57 from Cristobal Del

9:43

Solaire on the corn fairy tour

9:45

this week. We've just seen like

9:47

this year has been low score after

9:51

low score after low score. Obviously

9:53

Joaquin Nieman shot 59 the week

9:55

before on live tour. 60s

9:59

that we saw 60s. from Wyndham Clark at Pebble

10:01

Beach. It's just not, it's

10:03

like, you know, I would use

10:05

this to like, these are major

10:07

league baseball records that are

10:09

being broken on a little

10:11

league field, you know? So I don't

10:14

think he had hit much more than a wedge into

10:16

any hole, you know, the, the,

10:19

I guess the, the ability for golf

10:21

courses to defend themselves against the mountain

10:23

player are at an all time low.

10:26

Um, you know, some equipment modifications

10:28

and, and rollback are coming. I don't

10:30

really think it's going to do much

10:33

of anything. This might be just

10:35

the new era and, and I'm just out on

10:37

it being a huge deal because I just think

10:39

it is, it is what it

10:41

is, um, in today's era

10:43

of golf. Your thoughts. I

10:46

agree with you, Andy. Uh, the corn fairy tour

10:49

ones were a bit of a special circumstance because

10:51

it was a short golf course at altitude, but

10:53

a score is just a number on a card

10:55

at this point getting put on

10:57

59 watch that used to be

10:59

rare and pretty fun. And now it means

11:01

basically nothing. Like I don't get excited by

11:03

it anymore. I think the

11:06

baseball analogy is appropriate. Also NBA players

11:08

scoring 50. Like we've seen

11:10

a huge increase in that this year to where

11:12

it's no longer as noteworthy when

11:14

somebody puts up 50 points. So, uh, yeah, scoring is

11:16

all relative. I don't get excited by it either, but

11:18

I think especially this year, you're going to see a

11:22

lot of low scores. Like I

11:24

think we're in for over the next year or

11:26

two, some really low scores until there's

11:28

a rollback and I agree with you that even

11:30

once, once the rollback happens, it's not going to have

11:33

that significant of an impact. So I'm with you. I'm

11:35

out on that too. All

11:37

right. Let's get to Gary young, but first

11:39

let's talk about our friends from the USGA.

11:42

Um, and the, the USGA grief

11:44

section, which has been helping golf

11:47

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11:49

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prioritize your resources more effectively. USGA

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and you'll receive $500

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that's $500 off your first visit

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and for more information on how

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to schedule a visit go to

12:43

usga.org/ green section

12:46

dash ccs that's

12:48

usga.org/green section dash

12:51

ccs. All right thanks

12:53

to the USGA and let's get to Gary. All

13:04

right Gary thank you for coming on.

13:06

I would love

13:08

to hear about how someone

13:10

becomes a rules

13:12

official. How do you become the head referee

13:15

for a PGA TOUR event? How does that

13:17

even come about? How does your life take

13:19

you here? Yeah it's

13:21

probably well first of all thanks for having

13:23

me on. It's probably the

13:25

most common question that we get asked

13:27

by fans that are walking by and

13:30

see the rules official sticker on the

13:32

front of the golf cart. They're

13:34

always like how do you become

13:36

one of those? That sounds like something I'm interested

13:38

in. I said yeah it

13:40

looks like fun right now but it has

13:43

its moments. You

13:45

know everyone on our team

13:48

comes from various backgrounds. Number

13:51

one most of us have either worked

13:53

have either been golf professionals at some

13:55

point in the past whether we

13:57

were PGA of America members. A

14:00

couple of members of our team were actually

14:02

members of the PGA Tour who

14:05

later in their career decided to

14:07

pursue being a rules

14:09

official, which is really, I

14:11

think that's important. It's always great to have

14:13

a player's point of view on our committee.

14:17

To someone like Mark Dusbabek, who

14:19

does our television rules analyst role,

14:22

and Mark was actually a middle

14:24

linebacker for the Minnesota Vikings. How

14:26

about that? It's

14:30

something that just post football career,

14:33

he really dedicated himself. He

14:35

got involved in state and

14:38

section associations,

14:41

got a lot of experience

14:43

in administration of golf, got

14:47

educated on the rules, long extensive

14:49

education on the rules, and eventually

14:51

was hired later

14:54

by Mark Russell. We

14:58

have a very varied background that

15:00

everyone comes from. I

15:02

think that's what makes us special. Do

15:04

you guys, is there a test? Financial

15:08

advisors have to take a Series 7. Is

15:12

there some sort of test that you

15:14

have to study for and then upkeep

15:17

at certain times? That's

15:20

something I've always wondered. Absolutely.

15:24

Yes, we all started out by

15:26

having to score very well on

15:28

the USGA, PGA of America. They

15:31

do a joint rules workshop. You

15:33

attend a workshop for about a week. It's

15:36

a very extensive dive into the rules

15:38

of golf and how to interpret the

15:40

rules of golf. Then you

15:43

take a 100 question exam and

15:45

have to score exceptionally well on

15:47

that to be considered. Then

15:51

also, it's just continually, like

15:53

any other profession, the

15:55

continuing education. We

15:58

are constantly doing a deep dive. Into

16:00

the rules of golf as they happen Across

16:03

all the the major tours we

16:06

share with one another rulings that

16:08

we have We talk about

16:10

them in depth so that we have a

16:12

better understanding of everything Do you

16:14

have a favorite obscure rule or

16:17

ruling like is there one

16:19

that that sticks out? Andy

16:25

About the If you have

16:28

a golf ball in your pocket and you mark your

16:30

ball and you put it The ball

16:32

that you just marked in your pocket and they're marked

16:34

the exact same way Gary correct me

16:37

if I'm wrong But if you're not sure which

16:39

one you were using I believe that is a

16:41

lost ball and that was it Well,

16:44

I think that comes more in play when we have

16:46

a ball in play, right? Right and

16:48

we hit one and we haven't marked it and

16:51

we get out there. Maybe we hit a provisional.

16:53

That's the same exact ball Same

16:56

exact marking. Yeah, that would be a

16:58

situation where if you truly Could

17:01

not tell which one was the first

17:03

one in play, you know that particular

17:05

that first one is deemed to be

17:07

lost And yeah, so it's always a

17:09

good idea to mark your golf balls

17:11

differently for sure Would you then have

17:13

to hit a third tee shot and

17:15

say you hit a provisional now in

17:17

that situation? I'm

17:20

trying to remember the exact interpretation on that

17:22

one But I believe the second the

17:24

second ball would become the ball in

17:26

play But if you can't if you

17:28

don't know either one you'd be hitting

17:30

your if you couldn't be hit it

17:33

couldn't tell either or You

17:35

know you would be hitting your fourth

17:38

shot now from from the fairway

17:41

Yeah, I think I remember reading it within the context

17:43

of marking your ball in the green and like putting it

17:46

in your pocket And then you're not sure because you have

17:48

two balls in your pocket and that was just a

17:50

crazy situation That probably doesn't come up. Do

17:52

you have a personal? Yeah obscure one? No,

17:55

I really don't I really don't they

17:57

are all they all have their challenges

18:00

at times. So that's why

18:02

we have a committee and you

18:05

know when you're out there and you

18:07

get in a situation like that one you just threw

18:09

at me, I mean you know it's

18:11

so weird, it's so unusual for something

18:13

like that to happen, I would throw

18:16

that out to the entire committee for

18:18

everyone's feedback to make sure that we

18:20

get the call right. And

18:22

as a matter of fact I

18:25

would say okay guys before I

18:27

close this out, this ruling, is

18:29

there anyone else that's thinking differently

18:31

than what we've just heard? Because

18:33

oftentimes there's someone sitting there really

18:35

thinking about it and there's

18:37

some small little thing that the committee is

18:39

not thinking about. So we have had situations

18:41

like that and that's why it's

18:44

important that there are eight of us, nine of

18:46

us there at the course. We

18:48

truly act as a committee on things. Gary,

18:51

when we refer to PGA

18:53

TOUR setup, who

18:55

all would that entail? That's a big question

18:57

I have. Like who all is coordinating maintenance

19:02

with respect to how long the

19:05

grass should be, green speeds. Can

19:07

you explain who all within the

19:09

PGA TOUR orbit that term

19:12

would encompass? Yeah

19:14

so when we talk about setup, we're

19:16

talking about two different things. There

19:18

is the agronomic setup of

19:21

the golf course so that would be

19:23

green speeds, height of cut in all

19:25

the different areas of the golf course.

19:28

And then there's the other

19:30

portion of setup which is

19:32

handled that week of

19:35

the competition and I can talk

19:37

a little bit about both. So the

19:39

first part, the agronomic setup,

19:41

that's really something that is set

19:44

up by the chief referee and the

19:46

advance rules official for each event. So

19:48

we have a person that travels to

19:51

the golf course a week in advance and

19:54

his or her job is to

19:56

prepare the golf course for competition.

19:59

They work with our agronomist and the

20:01

local superintendent or

20:03

director of agronomy at a facility.

20:06

And they make sure that everything

20:08

that we have, you know, from

20:11

years of experience playing at a

20:13

venue, we know what optimal conditions

20:15

are for that particular venue. Maybe

20:18

the height of cut at three inches is

20:20

perfect for that golf course given the grass

20:22

type. Maybe at another place it

20:24

might be two inches because it's

20:27

Bermuda grass. And each

20:29

type of grass represents a different

20:31

issue at different heights of cut.

20:35

Same thing with height of fairway, speed

20:37

of greens. It really depends

20:40

upon the architecture of the golf

20:42

course. Last week

20:44

at Pebble Beach, that's a really

20:46

challenging set of greens to find

20:49

quality hole locations once

20:51

the greens get above a certain speed. We

20:55

knew we had big wins coming in last week.

20:58

So we actually backed off the

21:00

green speeds. Our target speed

21:02

was between 11 and a half and 12. We

21:05

actually backed it off closer to

21:07

just below 11, which

21:09

now allows us to go into

21:12

some more sloppier areas. But

21:15

again, we were trying to get high and

21:18

dry. We were trying to put the hole

21:20

locations up where moisture wouldn't shut us down

21:22

and we could keep playing golf. So

21:25

that was the bonus of being at

21:27

a lower green speed. Everyone always thinks,

21:29

oh, fast green speeds, that's the challenge.

21:32

Not really. If you want to go to some of

21:34

these really quality hole

21:36

locations on an old golf course,

21:39

we need those green speeds to be lower.

21:43

Is that a tough conversation? You

21:46

hear PGA Tour players talk about when

21:48

they go to the, say, the open

21:50

championship and they say, always talk

21:52

about, oh, the greens are slower than I'm used

21:54

to. There's a period.

21:58

Is it hard to... The have

22:00

a little bit slower greens when you have

22:02

like I'm thinking in my head Sedgefield as

22:04

a great example where the green to have

22:07

his old golf courses as a doll Ross

22:09

design that has a lot of slope and

22:11

it's one of the one of the places

22:13

I feel like you see. For.

22:15

Footers with the most break you to eat

22:17

see any were on tour is it is

22:19

it out I'm. A hard. Thing.

22:23

To accomplish with players that are

22:25

used to act speed. Well.

22:29

It's an interesting comment because we

22:31

don't trot where we are. Definitely

22:33

not a cookie cutter tour. meaning

22:35

we're not looking to be twelve

22:38

every week. we're not looking to

22:40

be, you know, three in sight

22:42

of Ruff. It really is driven

22:45

by the architecture of the golf

22:47

course. Are you mentioned Sedgefield? That's

22:49

a great example of a very

22:52

challenging set of greens. and we

22:54

just know historically if we if

22:56

we. Have a dream

22:58

speech to high We can really

23:01

lose quality whole locations ones that

23:03

are going to challenge the player

23:05

on their approach shot to the

23:07

green arm and so almost like

23:09

when we become too fast on

23:12

a set. greens. We. Tend

23:14

to have to go towards the middle

23:16

of the green with the whole locations

23:18

and you don't get the variation in

23:21

whole locations are looking for So you

23:23

know you mentioned the Open Championship that

23:25

they do a great job with their

23:27

golf course set up and some of

23:30

the most challenging so locations. I'm always.

23:32

you know when I'm walking with the

23:34

group at the open championship I'm always

23:37

looking at whole kurt the case and

23:39

same wow I mean if we tried

23:41

that on the Pc a tour but.

23:44

They're green speeds are such that

23:46

they can go to those places.

23:48

So yeah, I think that makes

23:50

a lot of sense. And I

23:52

think your original question to players

23:54

on. The. They mind it. Yes,

23:56

I mean they have to make adjustments

23:58

to. you know Their stroke

24:00

for sure, you know, sometimes if it's

24:02

a little on the slower side You

24:05

have to pop it a little bit more

24:07

than than just that normal flowing stroke that

24:09

they have Kind of weaken

24:12

and weak out. So I Think

24:14

it's tougher to use the aim point that way Yeah,

24:17

you're talking about the agronomics part of the

24:19

setup and then you'd mention there

24:21

being the other piece of the setup Maybe if you

24:23

can elaborate that on that and and one question I

24:26

had is what is the PGA

24:28

tours goal with setup? In

24:30

your opinion, what are the ingredients

24:33

of a proper PGA tour test?

24:35

So maybe if you want to

24:37

take those questions in whatever order you see fit

24:40

The goal of any

24:43

PGA tour event any day is

24:45

to try to set up the most difficult Course

24:48

we can yet fair difficult yet

24:50

fair. We're trying to challenge the

24:52

best players in the world You

24:56

see some events where the

24:58

numbers are are high, you know,

25:00

I could you know high meaning under par

25:04

Seems like the guys are shooting lights out there

25:07

well certain venues just you know, they

25:09

don't have maybe the challenge of some

25:11

of something like a Tory pines or

25:13

a Pebble Beach or

25:16

other places where you can kind of

25:18

ratchet things down a little bit by

25:21

by having tougher whole locations so

25:24

our goal every day is Difficult

25:27

yet fair given the

25:29

day's conditions. So we

25:31

have to set up guys each week

25:33

or we also have

25:35

women so I shouldn't just say guys, but we have

25:38

to set up people each week and Their

25:42

job is to communicate with one another

25:44

on how they're setting up their nine

25:46

each day One's doing the front ones

25:48

do in the back They

25:50

want to make sure they have four

25:52

different clubs in the players hands on

25:54

par threes Usually a golf course

25:57

has four of them. So we're looking

25:59

for variety variety in the

26:01

hole location and shot shape. We're also

26:03

looking for variety in the yardage. So

26:05

the goal is to have four different

26:07

clubs in their hands and

26:10

then throughout the golf course just balance

26:12

between right, right hand, left

26:16

hand hole locations, front,

26:18

middle, back. You're looking at it

26:20

so that when the player looks

26:22

at a hole location sheet they

26:24

see nice balance and it almost

26:26

looks like one person is setting

26:28

up the golf course rather than

26:30

two distinct ones. And that's something

26:33

that we work hard at is,

26:35

you know, working with the staff

26:37

and they do a great job

26:39

already. We have a really terrific

26:41

staff and they understand

26:44

golf and they've been doing it a

26:46

long time so they know how to

26:48

set up a challenging course but really

26:51

looking for that balance so that doesn't

26:53

appear that it's two distinct people setting

26:55

it up. I'm sure I

26:57

could ask you a million questions on pin locations

26:59

alone. One

27:02

that maybe a couple parts to

27:04

this question but something I always think about how

27:06

the golf course plays in the morning versus how

27:08

it plays when it gets a little firmer in

27:10

the afternoon and how wind

27:13

interacts with that. So can you

27:15

maybe talk a little bit about some of

27:18

those considerations and for example are you trying

27:20

to get similar difficulty on Thursday

27:22

and Friday because you have players who play

27:25

one morning one afternoon and maybe how you change

27:27

that over the course of the four days. So

27:30

again a few questions that I just threw at

27:32

you but I'm very interested in how that impacts

27:34

pin locations and what you have to accomplish. No

27:37

those are really good questions. You

27:40

know you are trying to keep the

27:42

golf course a little more balanced for

27:44

sure on Thursday and Friday. Each

27:47

player is going to have a chance to play in

27:49

the morning in the afternoon wave and

27:51

you hope to keep the conditions

27:53

as similar as possible. You're

27:56

looking to strike that balance

27:58

because weather oftentimes

28:01

doesn't allow that. So you're

28:03

factoring that into your decision

28:05

making, and you're always

28:07

setting up for the worst conditions that

28:09

are going to be faced. So what

28:12

might appear to be an easy setup

28:14

in the morning, for the

28:16

guys playing in the morning, you're

28:18

really trying to keep it fair for

28:21

the guys in the afternoon who are

28:23

going to face maybe high winds or

28:25

a driving rain or something like that.

28:27

So you're always thinking about equity, and

28:30

that's what the most important function

28:33

of a rules committee is to keep the event

28:36

as equitable as possible, the competition

28:38

equitable. And then

28:41

again, there's some places that are just a

28:43

challenge. We go to places with high altitude.

28:45

I can always remember we used to play

28:48

out in Reno, and the golf

28:50

course we played there, we had

28:52

to really water

28:54

the heck out of it overnight, and

28:57

the guys would always complain about how

29:00

damp it was in the morning, and

29:02

yet in the afternoon it was rock

29:04

hard. And it was like, well, if

29:06

we don't get it damp in the

29:08

morning, guess what? It's going to be

29:10

dead by the afternoon. It's going to

29:13

look like all these mountains around us

29:15

where there's no vegetation. We

29:17

are in the middle of an

29:19

arid area where moisture is needed.

29:21

So you're always trying to

29:23

strike that balance. You don't want it

29:25

to be too soft for the

29:27

guys in the morning, but you got to give it enough

29:30

moisture to get it through the day. Over

29:33

your time at the PGA Tour,

29:35

how would you say that setup

29:37

has evolved both from the aspect

29:39

of player evolution, they're hitting it

29:41

further, but also from an agronomic

29:43

standpoint, never has agronomy

29:45

been better. Never have we been able to

29:48

push courses to the same standard

29:51

as we can today. Yeah,

29:54

I think you're hitting on

29:56

a good point there because distance is something

29:58

that we hear about all. of time.

30:00

And although I don't

30:03

disagree, people are hitting it a

30:05

little bit further each year. And we see

30:07

that the athletes are getting

30:09

bigger and stronger every year. The ability

30:12

for them to fine

30:14

tune their equipment is getting

30:16

better and better with the use of track

30:19

man data. So

30:22

they're optimizing everything about their equipment.

30:24

But going to the agronomic side,

30:27

there's no doubt that our

30:29

agronomy team for sure has gotten

30:32

better and better at providing

30:34

just outstanding conditions. And

30:37

that has an impact on distance

30:39

as well. No doubt about it.

30:42

We've been mowing fairways at

30:44

lower tolerances for sure, constantly

30:48

asking courses to dry it down

30:50

because our players want firm, fast

30:53

conditions. And that's what we try

30:55

to provide each week. So

30:58

that has a big, that has a lot

31:00

to do with the distance debate is part

31:02

of it is the data

31:04

that's coming from our tour is

31:07

being driven by just superior conditions

31:09

week in week out. I guarantee

31:11

it last week, that sop and

31:13

wet mess we played in the

31:16

distance was not a big factor because

31:18

balls were hitting and stopping right there.

31:20

So that would be a week that

31:22

would skew the numbers severely.

31:26

In terms of your stance, you were just

31:28

kind of talking about tests early on. What

31:30

do you see from

31:33

your chair on the

31:35

best way to test the modern

31:38

PGA Tour player? Probably the

31:40

best way is to

31:42

have a challenging set

31:44

of greens. This is just

31:47

my take on it from watching it play out.

31:51

It's all about, I think

31:53

architecture, where water is

31:55

able to leave the green. It doesn't

31:58

kind of, you know, So shots

32:00

that hit close to the green tend

32:02

to get repelled away

32:04

from the green if they're not precise,

32:08

rather than architecture that almost rewards

32:10

a shot that's maybe hit just

32:12

a little more offline, hit something

32:14

and ricochets back onto the green.

32:17

So if I were designing a

32:19

course to challenge the best players

32:21

right now, it would all be

32:23

about precision on iron shots

32:26

into the green. And then

32:28

of course a nice challenging

32:30

set of greens that doesn't

32:33

have severe slopes, but

32:35

just subtle features that are

32:37

very difficult for the player

32:39

to read. And

32:42

I think we noticed, I noticed

32:44

that our players love the older

32:46

courses as opposed to some

32:48

of the modern courses. And

32:50

I think a lot of that has to

32:52

do with some of the most classic designs

32:54

that you think of, probably some of your

32:56

favorite courses were built in a

32:59

period when most of those

33:01

courses were built by hand, by

33:03

horse and plow and labor,

33:06

manual labor with rakes.

33:09

And they get all those fine little details

33:12

that you really have to search for with

33:14

your eye. It's not so

33:16

obvious as nowadays with some

33:18

of the larger dozers and

33:20

things like that that they use. I

33:24

think there are certain architects in the

33:27

modern era that tend to be able

33:30

to provide that same type feel

33:32

that I'm talking about some of

33:34

the classic courses. I

33:37

agree. Like there is a thing

33:39

where when you're not sure, it seems like

33:41

it's hard when the guys struggle the most

33:44

when they can't really tell which way a

33:46

putt breaks, right? And they think it might

33:48

be on the right edge and then it

33:50

moves just a fraction to the right instead.

33:53

That's what kind of flummoxes them. It's

33:55

that Pete Dye quote. It gets them thinking, right? You win

33:58

when you get them thinking. From

34:00

your perspective, and obviously this is all

34:02

opinion, do you think the older courses

34:04

because of history also get

34:06

away with a little bit more

34:08

severity and features because that's the way

34:11

it's always been versus when you go

34:13

to say a newer venue or a

34:15

course that's been renovated in something

34:17

news introduced that's different from what it

34:20

used to be? I

34:22

think you're you're hitting on a good one there

34:24

you know if you show up

34:26

the US Open it's being played at wing

34:28

foot where that can have some

34:31

crazy features right? I

34:33

feel like those dreams wouldn't work at

34:36

like TPC Scottsdale. No, I

34:38

think if someone showed up and

34:40

someone had just designed that golf

34:42

course or that set of greens

34:44

complexes the players would probably be

34:47

you know saying some nasty things about

34:49

it but. Yeah,

34:51

you do tend to just accept

34:53

some of the older architecture and

34:56

I think that the guys understand that

34:58

you know those greens were designed

35:01

when the golf ball. Well, just

35:03

wasn't rolling at the speeds that

35:05

that we have greens rolling at

35:07

now. So there is a balance

35:09

there. And

35:12

again, you know, I think the USGA does

35:14

a great job. They

35:16

do a great job setting up the

35:18

US Open each year. I think we

35:20

enjoy, you know, the challenge they present

35:23

and they've been nice enough to have

35:25

us there with them.

35:29

Just asking questions as they're as they're

35:31

setting up, but they do an outstanding

35:33

job presenting a good challenge. Well,

35:36

while we're here, I you know, one

35:38

the the course what you were

35:40

discussing discussing about testing the

35:42

world's best. It sounded a lot like Pinehurst

35:44

number two greens that repel with kind of

35:47

subtle slopes in them. But

35:49

while we're on the major championship set up

35:52

stuff, I you know, you you attend

35:54

majors you were you work majors. How

35:57

do you kind of look when you

35:59

look at? take a step back and look

36:01

at those setups versus the PGA Tour setups,

36:03

how do you think they differ? How do

36:06

you think they're similar? I'd just

36:09

be curious in your perspective of majors

36:11

versus the setups that you guys do

36:13

as your for your organization. I

36:16

think first and foremost it starts with the

36:18

ability to nail down

36:21

some of the some of

36:23

the most iconic venues you

36:25

know and when you are

36:28

bringing a major championship to

36:30

some of the most iconic venues in

36:32

our country sometimes

36:34

they're willing to host those events

36:38

you know obviously they're more open to it

36:40

so it starts with the

36:42

quality of the architecture and that

36:44

is one thing it seems like

36:46

they get right every year and

36:51

then the ability to create a firm

36:56

fast condition so this

36:58

year at Pinehurst it

37:00

should you know everything tells you

37:03

that that place should at that time

37:05

of year be paying playing firm and

37:07

fast and has the

37:09

architectural value to really challenge the

37:12

best players in the world. Now

37:15

I think another venue that

37:17

they played recently a US Open was

37:20

the Country Club in Brookline and

37:22

everyone was wondering well what's that

37:24

going to be like you know and and I had

37:26

no doubt in my mind it was still going to

37:28

present a serious challenge

37:31

because it had some real

37:33

strength in that those greens complexes and

37:35

I knew they was going to challenge

37:37

the guys and they were not going

37:39

to have the memory recall because not

37:41

many of them have played there and

37:45

it stood up to be a terrific challenge

37:47

but a lot of it was they you

37:50

know the USGA did a great job setting

37:52

that place up that week and they

37:56

had us there and they asked a

37:58

lot of questions and I respect

38:00

them for that because we're with the players week

38:02

in and week out and the fact that they

38:05

even asked our opinion, you know, we're flattered

38:07

by that and we're proud to be part

38:09

of our national

38:12

championship. We

38:14

probably have more input

38:16

at the US Open with

38:18

them than any other major,

38:20

which, you know, but I

38:22

respect all of the organizations that run them and

38:24

I think they do a great job presenting a

38:27

really tough challenge. I mean, sometimes

38:30

it can have our players scratching

38:32

their heads, but you know what?

38:35

It's fair. It's not across

38:37

the line. They do a good job of

38:39

keeping things in check now. I imagine

38:42

you kind of look at them and think,

38:45

oh, how nice it must be to be

38:47

able to like really focus in on one

38:49

event for, you know,

38:51

for a long period of time,

38:53

but on the flip side, they

38:55

look at you guys and it's

38:57

like, God, it must be nice

39:00

to do this every week. Yeah.

39:02

Yeah. I don't think

39:04

that we can push things sometimes as

39:06

hard as they do. They're

39:09

not going to be, they're not going to be facing the

39:11

players week in and week out. There's

39:14

no doubt about it. But yeah, that

39:16

is a luxury. I wish I had that

39:18

luxury of just doing it once a year,

39:21

but they all do a good

39:23

job. Kerry Haig from the PJ of

39:25

America does an outstanding job every year.

39:28

And you know, you would think that I

39:30

would hear criticism, but never do. I mean,

39:33

he just does a great job. Gary,

39:35

going back to one of your answers

39:37

from a couple of questions ago about

39:40

what an ideal test is. And when

39:42

you hit a shot that's not perfectly struck, it

39:44

repels away. I think you're not to put words

39:46

in your mouth, but kind of getting at the

39:48

relationship between hitting a shot

39:51

online and experiencing a consequence. And

39:54

with that, I think a hot topic always on

39:56

social media that I'd love to get your perspective

39:58

on is TI. relief

40:01

where there's there

40:03

are infrastructural requirements of a

40:05

PGA tour event and any

40:07

professional golf event but oftentimes

40:10

hit a shot offline and you're

40:13

able to get a free drop not

40:15

experience as much of a consequence as maybe

40:17

fans on social media. I count myself

40:19

in this camp would like to see.

40:22

Curious for your perspective on TIO relief,

40:24

are there solutions? Do you think it's

40:27

a problem on tour? I'd just love

40:29

to get the PGA tours perspective on

40:31

that subject. Well I think

40:33

you you know it's an important part

40:36

of it right. These tournaments

40:38

run a lot they raise a lot

40:40

of money for charity you know and

40:43

and we sell those venues

40:45

and it's an important part of the

40:47

formula of a successful PGA tour event.

40:51

We're trying to get people close to

40:53

the action especially

40:55

sometimes on the closing holes of

40:57

an event that's it's important that

41:00

all those structures are there. Not to

41:03

mention that our own infrastructure

41:05

to provide data

41:08

for everything right now

41:11

in the sport whether it be

41:13

gaming whether it be our

41:15

broadcasts all these things popping

41:18

up all over the golf course so when

41:20

you go and play a golf course as

41:22

the average player you don't

41:24

encounter all these things and we

41:27

certainly can't punish the players for

41:30

ending up in an area where something

41:32

is on their line of play. So

41:35

we do that's right I mentioned

41:37

the advanced official the advanced official

41:39

works almost year round with

41:41

an event working with

41:43

the proper placement of everything on the

41:46

golf course he's trying to strike a

41:48

balance between the location

41:50

of a structure from

41:53

an entertainment standpoint and then also

41:56

from the design of the golf course and

41:58

trying to protect the design for features of

42:00

the golf course. You don't want to have

42:02

structures right up against the 18th green

42:05

where it's almost creating a backboard.

42:07

And I think that's probably what

42:09

you're getting at is, you

42:11

know, it's

42:14

a balance there. So we're always

42:16

asking more room, more room.

42:19

And unfortunately some venues don't

42:22

provide enough room for all

42:24

these things. So as

42:26

upset as the home viewer

42:28

may be getting, you know,

42:31

it's within the rules of the game. And

42:33

they don't

42:36

have to encounter all of these things

42:38

when they play a golf course. It

42:41

presents challenges, good

42:44

and bad. Sometimes it does

42:46

reward the player. And if

42:49

we play something wrong and it happens

42:51

to player gets rewarded for that, you

42:53

know, we're making notes of that and

42:56

we'll make darn sure next year that

42:58

same thing isn't located there. But it's

43:01

a balance. We're always trying to provide

43:04

an entertainment vehicle for

43:07

all of you to see at home. And

43:09

at the same time, you know, we've

43:12

got to have the ability to entertain

43:15

people on site and provide data

43:17

for all those other folks. So

43:20

there's a lot, there's a lot to balance. I

43:22

know one thing I've seen at major championships in

43:24

the past, and maybe this has happened that PGA

43:26

Tour venues is sometimes they'll have a designated drop

43:29

area. That's like a bad lie, whether it's a

43:31

little bit of fescue or something. Is that

43:34

something that the PGA Tour has considered?

43:36

Or are there any counterbalancing solutions to

43:38

the back boarding issue, for example? We've

43:42

always we have always shied

43:44

away from drop zones

43:46

or drop areas, because

43:49

quite frankly, we just believe there's a

43:51

rule in place that that

43:54

keeps the ball in

43:56

a more similar area to where,

43:59

where we're going. struck, you know, where

44:01

it was lying. So we

44:03

would rather operate off the TIO

44:05

local rule, rather than bring a

44:07

player to the nearest drop zone

44:10

and have them all playing from within

44:12

there and creating divots

44:14

in there and everything, every other

44:17

possibility. We

44:19

just believe there's a rule in place

44:21

and we all understand it and we

44:24

have very comfortable operating under it.

44:26

I think it's more the home

44:28

viewer that doesn't understand sometimes what

44:30

we're doing. But, you know, sometimes

44:33

it's not always creating an easy

44:35

up and down situation. Sometimes it

44:37

creates a worse situation than the

44:40

player would have been facing if

44:42

that thing wasn't there. So yeah,

44:45

this plus is in mind. I think

44:47

everyone just gets upset when they see

44:50

a player somehow get rewarded for hitting

44:52

a bad shot. And

44:54

I get that. I get that. You're

44:57

referencing with a lot of the

44:59

infrastructure that's out on tour. Shotlink

45:01

towers, for example, are a big part of that.

45:04

And I'm curious, does the

45:06

PGA tour, what is

45:08

PGA tour setups relationship with data? Are

45:10

you looking at certain

45:13

scoring averages and hoping that you get

45:15

a certain distribution of birdies and bogeys

45:17

on particular holes based on how you've

45:20

set it up? Are you

45:22

evaluating a setup based on some

45:24

of the data that you're getting back? Just curious

45:26

what your relationship is with data and maybe how

45:28

that's changed since you've been at PGA

45:30

tour. We've come a

45:33

long way and it's only going to

45:35

get better. We're doing a

45:37

deeper dive into the data all the

45:39

time. And, you know, that's

45:41

one thing that the PGA

45:43

tour has made a huge investment

45:46

in data through

45:48

Shotlink. And Shotlink has been a

45:50

huge help for us in

45:52

our daily setup of the golf course and

45:55

our planning. And, you

45:57

know, I talked about our setup team. And

45:59

and their ability to take a deep

46:02

dive into the data, looking at when

46:04

the whole location is in this section

46:06

of the green in this wind direction,

46:08

they can look back at the data

46:11

and they can see where the shot

46:13

dispersion pattern was off of the tee.

46:16

They can make adjustments based on

46:18

all that data, thousands and thousands

46:20

of shots that are making

48:00

changes to golf holes on

48:02

certain courses. And

48:04

our team now has the ability

48:07

through all the shot link data

48:09

and through all this technology that

48:11

they've developed. Before we make

48:13

the change to the golf hole, and

48:16

if we're thinking of moving a bunker

48:18

or shifting something or bringing the rough

48:21

line in, they can

48:23

take all of the shot

48:25

dispersion data and

48:28

overlay that and make

48:30

the changes to the hole.

48:33

And it will figure out and simulate

48:35

what the balls that end up in

48:38

the rough, what the average score was.

48:41

And you can see ahead of time

48:43

before you spend any money making those

48:45

changes to a golf course, are you

48:47

really going to have the impact that

48:49

you're looking for? So

48:51

the players championship

48:53

is a great example. TPC sawgrass.

48:55

We are constantly looking at that

48:57

golf course. How can we present

49:00

a better challenge to that golf

49:02

course? And it's not

49:04

just distance. Oftentimes it's

49:06

shifting features slightly, changing

49:10

angles, constantly trying to

49:12

make the player think out there.

49:14

So before we spend money on

49:17

it, on CAD

49:19

designs, they can shift, change things,

49:22

and calculate, is that worth it? Is it going

49:24

to change the average score for the hole? With

49:27

regards to making changes, especially

49:30

architectural changes at a place

49:32

with, say, sawgrass, designed

49:34

by one of the greatest architects of

49:37

all time, when you're

49:39

looking at that, are you

49:41

guys looking at pure difficulty? How

49:44

do we get this average up? Or

49:47

is more the goal to

49:49

how do we create a

49:51

wider range of outcomes? Like

49:53

where we have more low scores,

49:55

but also more high scores? Yeah.

49:58

Well, I think you hit on it. We've

50:00

never we love the fact

50:02

that the range of champions

50:05

at TPC sawgrass is

50:08

Really wide, you know, you have

50:10

players short short hitters medium and

50:12

long and It's

50:14

never favored any one particular type

50:16

of player So that's why we

50:18

personally love the course and we

50:20

continue to tweak the place Pete

50:24

Dye was was just

50:26

an unbelievable architect who challenged you

50:30

Physically and mentally and

50:32

it was important to us that if

50:34

as we move forward There

50:36

at TPC sawgrass it

50:38

was important to us that we get

50:40

player feedback from people who have played

50:42

it in the past and We've

50:46

gotten a lot of feedback, especially from

50:48

Davis Davis Love who is now involved

50:52

in making future Adjustments

50:54

to Pete's design. He absolutely was

50:56

a big fan of Pete Pete's

50:59

design and He's

51:02

very thoughtful in his own architecture

51:04

and We thought

51:06

he was the perfect guy to bring

51:08

on board. So he has been really

51:11

deeply invested in future Adjustments

51:13

to the golf course there and making

51:15

sure that he is being

51:17

true to Pete's Thoughts on

51:19

how to play that golf course and

51:22

and also Tiger has also

51:24

had some some input With

51:27

Davis they've talked extensively about

51:29

how the course used to

51:31

play and we value their

51:33

opinion obviously any any of the past

51:36

champions who Really want

51:38

to see that golf course be the true

51:40

challenge Gary, I'm really glad

51:42

you brought up TPC sawgrass because I think one

51:45

Debate I've kind of had with people

51:47

recently. What's the best time

51:49

to play TPC sawgrass? How does it

51:51

play differently in May versus March really

51:54

interested in your perspective on how it

51:56

plays differently In

51:58

March then and it's historic at

52:01

least where it used to be in May and what

52:03

some of the differences are in setting up the course,

52:06

firmness levels, really curious for your perspective

52:08

on how that move to

52:10

March has changed how TBC sawgrass plays. Move

52:13

back to March. Joseph might be

52:15

too young to remember the March

52:17

days before the May days. Joe's

52:21

a young one,

52:23

huh? I'll be

52:25

honest, we had

52:28

the benefit of knowing how it would play

52:30

in March. We had

52:32

been playing it in May and

52:34

we're providing a very firm, fast

52:37

golf course. It didn't

52:39

quite have the color that

52:41

it has. It didn't have

52:43

the appeal visually, you know,

52:46

because the Bermuda was still somewhat,

52:48

you know, not coming fully out

52:50

of dormancy. And I

52:54

think that everyone felt that

52:56

the golf course presents itself better

52:59

in March, just

53:01

visually striking. The rough

53:03

is certainly a challenge

53:05

still. We have the ability

53:07

to, it's all over seed, so we have

53:09

the ability to beef the

53:12

rough up and it's thick and

53:14

juicy. It's just not going to

53:16

play as firm and fast. So

53:19

we know that the scoring is

53:21

going to be good. And I think

53:23

that it's always produced somewhere in that 14

53:26

to 15 under par region,

53:29

somewhere in there. So and we're okay with

53:31

that. We think that at the end of

53:33

the week, we want to

53:35

see some scoring. It's all about

53:38

the competition itself. Was it a

53:40

compelling competition? Let's not get focused

53:42

on how many under par wins

53:45

the tournament. And that's

53:47

something that I don't like is when

53:50

people start placing, you know, they start

53:52

saying something about a venue, they say,

53:54

oh, they, they shoot a 20 something

53:57

under par there. It's

53:59

all about the competition. What people

54:01

remember in the end was the exciting

54:03

finish and was it a

54:05

duel coming down the stretch? Was there a

54:07

playoff, an exciting playoff? I

54:11

don't think many people actually remember what the winning

54:13

score was. So we

54:15

don't get hung up on that. I

54:17

think the whole score thing's kind of silly. If

54:20

you look at how many players – look at when Tiger came

54:22

out. Nobody hit the ball over

54:25

300 yards. Now half the tour

54:27

hits the ball over 300 yards. I

54:30

think the scoring competition –

54:32

the scoring conversation is crazy.

54:34

It's like the

54:37

quality of a golf course cannot be determined

54:40

by what – par is relative. Have

54:43

you guys ever talked about – like

54:45

dramatically – I know you've done it in

54:47

occasions where like TPC Craig Ranch went down

54:50

in par one shot. Have you ever talked

54:52

about going to like a par 68 for

54:55

one week and just seeing what the general

54:57

reaction would be? I don't

54:59

know that we've discussed doing that. There

55:02

are times where we look at a par –

55:04

say there's a par five. And when

55:06

you look at the end of the week

55:09

and the average for that hole

55:11

is 4.0 or 4.1, that's really a par four

55:13

for our players. On

55:18

the card it's a par five. So

55:21

there have been times where we have –

55:23

we've changed the par value on a hole.

55:27

But when we do that, we want

55:29

to make sure that the green is

55:31

one that is receptive to a long

55:33

club being hit to it so that

55:35

we can truly call it a par

55:37

four and have the players have

55:40

it feel like it's a true par four.

55:42

They understand hitting a longer club in where

55:45

they get critical is when it's a green

55:47

that was really designed to receive a wedge

55:50

and they're hitting long

55:52

clubs to it. I've done

55:55

some research on this subject, and if you

55:57

go back to when par was created in

55:59

the – 1910s. It was

56:02

determined that a par five was

56:04

a hole that is reached with

56:06

three shots by an expert player.

56:09

That would be the normal. And my

56:11

question with that is like, are there

56:13

actually, you know, we just saw it

56:16

with Pebble, sopping wet Pebble, guys hitting

56:18

irons into 14, which has traditionally been

56:20

one of the few real three shot

56:22

par fives on tour. My question is,

56:24

is it, I mean, do par fives

56:27

really even exist in the pro game

56:29

today? It's, there's

56:32

not many, there's not many

56:34

that require three shots anymore.

56:36

Let's be honest, you know,

56:38

so that's where sometimes our

56:41

hole locations on that particular

56:43

hole will be challenging,

56:45

knowing that they are going to be

56:47

somewhere up there around the green, flipping

56:50

a wedge while the balance is going

56:52

to be your and have a really

56:54

difficult up and down to achieve a

56:56

birdie there, you know, that should should

56:58

mean something. So, but

57:01

yeah, they just it's a function of the

57:04

game and how it's evolved. And you're

57:06

right, there aren't many that they don't

57:08

reach into anymore. Gary,

57:11

in terms of sports leagues,

57:13

PGA Tour, other sports leagues as

57:16

well modernizing one hot topic is

57:18

always pace of play, speeding the

57:20

game up, you know,

57:22

Major League Baseball recently implemented a

57:24

pitch clock, you are uniquely

57:26

positioned to discuss

57:29

some of the complications and implementing a

57:31

shot clock in golf. It's something

57:33

that gets thrown around a lot really curious

57:36

for your perspective on the difficulties of implementing

57:38

a solution like a shot clock and

57:40

kind of how to put the tour stance is on that

57:42

right now. And, and I'll

57:44

forgive you guys for the pop shots that

57:46

you take at us once in a while

57:48

about our lack of addressing

57:51

pace of play. But honestly,

57:54

I so if it

57:56

takes a lot, it's a big commitment to watch

57:58

golf. Yeah, we hear them. Don't worry.

58:03

I'm being honest with you guys. It's

58:05

all about having the

58:07

ability to spread the groups out.

58:11

It's spreading the tee time intervals

58:14

out. Clubs

58:16

across America would help

58:18

their own pace of play by

58:21

creating more space. What

58:24

happens is when the fields get large

58:27

and we get 156 players in a field, we've got

58:31

to have tee time intervals so

58:33

close together. As

58:35

you just said, par fives

58:38

really are all reachable. You

58:40

can almost assure yourself that every par

58:42

five is going to have a weight.

58:45

Now you've got four weights occurring

58:47

throughout the golf course. With

58:51

all of them starting so close to one

58:53

another and knowing that these weights

58:56

are occurring, how do

58:58

you time anyone? You

59:00

lose your ability and the

59:02

slower players can tend to

59:04

hide in those situations. They

59:07

don't stand out as much. When

59:09

we get to situations where

59:11

our fields are smaller and

59:14

we can spread the tee times out, you see

59:17

the results and the pace of play. The

59:20

pace of play suddenly goes from north

59:22

of five hours to suddenly now we're

59:24

playing about four hours and 45 minutes,

59:27

which for professional golf and everything they're

59:29

playing for is acceptable. This is not

59:31

some round of golf that you're playing

59:34

on a weekend with your buddies. These

59:36

guys are playing for their lives and

59:39

we all know that. We

59:42

have a system in place that

59:44

I firmly believe in through

59:47

the ShotLink system. It tracks

59:49

average shot time data

59:52

on each player. We have

59:54

moved to that system rather

59:57

than and yet we

59:59

will still time. groups if they fall out

1:00:01

of position with the groups ahead of them.

1:00:03

They all have a responsibility to stay in

1:00:05

position with the group ahead of them. We

1:00:09

will warn groups and we will time groups,

1:00:12

but the bigger thing is the

1:00:15

slowest players on the PGA Tour

1:00:18

are going to end up

1:00:20

paying fines at the end of the year if

1:00:23

they set themselves apart from the

1:00:25

rest and

1:00:27

they don't... I've

1:00:30

always said to the slower players when

1:00:32

they get what

1:00:34

we call an AST infraction.

1:00:36

So at the end of each event, there's

1:00:39

an average time to hit a shot.

1:00:43

Basically, the slowest 5%

1:00:45

ends up getting an

1:00:47

AST infraction. If they

1:00:50

get 10 during the course of

1:00:52

the year, fines start to

1:00:54

kick in and it starts to

1:00:56

accumulate quickly. We

1:00:59

don't discuss that publicly with anyone,

1:01:02

the amounts, but they're hefty

1:01:04

amounts. What it is,

1:01:06

it's just encouraging people to

1:01:09

play. We're looking like cars on a

1:01:11

highway. We don't want people

1:01:13

going 100 and we don't want people going

1:01:15

40. We're looking for everyone traveling right around

1:01:18

65, 70 miles

1:01:20

per hour going down the highway. If

1:01:22

everyone's spaced the same, traffic

1:01:25

flows nicely. Things are

1:01:27

going to happen during a round of golf. We're going

1:01:29

to have lost balls. We're going to have rulings. These

1:01:32

are things that happen that don't happen

1:01:34

at your club each week and the

1:01:36

average person doesn't understand. Why

1:01:39

is it taking them five hours to play?

1:01:41

Well, there's ruling calls.

1:01:43

There's drive backs to the tee.

1:01:45

How often does someone go back

1:01:47

to the tee at your club

1:01:49

when you're playing or you

1:01:51

just throw one down in the fair? They don't have

1:01:53

a cart. They got a run back. That's

1:01:56

right. I remember the junior

1:01:58

golf day. The junior golf. And they

1:02:00

have a shirt golf days though the run

1:02:02

back of shame Well, you gotta compose yourself

1:02:04

after you sprint 300 yards and

1:02:06

hit the next pizza It's

1:02:09

not a good feeling the lot of

1:02:11

there's a lot of components to pace

1:02:14

of play But the biggest component is

1:02:17

having the ability to space groups out

1:02:19

and that's why we've always preached You

1:02:22

know, although we're a membership organization.

1:02:24

We're looking to maximize start at

1:02:26

the same time Just understanding

1:02:29

that smaller fields will provide us

1:02:31

the best opportunity to improve pace

1:02:33

of play I guess

1:02:35

you know where I where I'm gonna push back

1:02:38

because obviously I think I'm on

1:02:41

a on I have a very

1:02:43

well documented my my feelings here,

1:02:45

but I The

1:02:48

thing that frustrates me the most is

1:02:50

that playing slow is Rewarded

1:02:54

on the on the PGA tour you

1:02:56

hear players talk about I used to

1:02:58

play fast We heard Brooks Kepka talk

1:03:00

about how he realized he was trying to play too

1:03:03

fast And that's what he did it at Oak Hill

1:03:05

one of the changes he made from the Masters No

1:03:07

kill was I slowed down. I just took my time

1:03:09

I went to the bathroom when I didn't need to

1:03:11

go to the bathroom when you talk

1:03:13

about the end consumer That's tough

1:03:16

to hear but with the with regards

1:03:18

to you know, you have this system in place

1:03:20

You can identify who the slow players are. They're

1:03:22

timed every shots time Wouldn't

1:03:25

stroke wouldn't the

1:03:27

most effective strategy be to to

1:03:30

dock strokes not fines because With

1:03:33

the amount of money that's being

1:03:35

played for now. These fines are completely

1:03:37

inconsequential to Versus like

1:03:39

a shot or two I know if

1:03:42

I if I save myself two shots

1:03:44

when I'm playing well because I played

1:03:46

slow I'm gonna make up $500,000

1:03:48

and That's

1:03:51

going to pay for all of my fines. No

1:03:54

matter what the subject. It just doesn't seem like

1:03:56

all the the Considerations

1:03:59

are aligned here with like the

1:04:01

most, the, the only place to me

1:04:03

that ever is going to dissuade a

1:04:05

PGA tour player from playing slow is

1:04:08

saying we're taking away shots in this

1:04:10

tournament that that to be

1:04:12

like, nobody wants to be penalized ever in a

1:04:14

golf tournament. And that is

1:04:16

the ultimate versus fines. Like if I

1:04:19

play better because I play slow, they're

1:04:21

going to pay for themselves. At

1:04:24

some point, at some point, they're going to

1:04:26

hurt, hurt enough to change

1:04:28

your mind, I promise you. And

1:04:31

it has happened. So

1:04:36

fines, fines do work, believe it

1:04:38

or not, it bothered even when

1:04:40

you're a person that makes a

1:04:42

lot of money playing. When

1:04:44

the fines escalate, it

1:04:47

gets their attention. And it

1:04:49

has changed behavior. I

1:04:52

can speak from experience that there are

1:04:54

players who have changed their ways when

1:04:57

the fines got to be a certain amount.

1:05:00

But to your other point, the

1:05:02

strokes, there's

1:05:05

a huge inequity there.

1:05:07

Okay, so you're a

1:05:10

guy who is

1:05:12

playing brutally slow. And

1:05:15

you miss the cut, or

1:05:17

you just make the cut. And

1:05:21

you get hit with a one stroke penalty. Doesn't

1:05:25

really harm you much. You're

1:05:27

another guy who's played at a

1:05:30

great pace the whole tournament. But now

1:05:32

coming down the stretch, you're in contention,

1:05:34

and something happens to you.

1:05:37

And you're on the clock, your group's on the clock, and you get

1:05:39

it, you get a couple bad

1:05:41

times. And and all of a sudden, we're

1:05:43

hitting you with a one stroke penalty. That

1:05:45

one stroke penalty could cost you hundreds of

1:05:48

thousands of dollars, if not, nowadays,

1:05:50

could cost you a million dollars for

1:05:52

that one shot. If you end up

1:05:54

losing by one, where's the equity in

1:05:56

that, you know, so You

1:06:00

know, that's kind of why we look,

1:06:04

we won't hesitate to get to

1:06:06

that one shot. And we have

1:06:08

given the one shot penalty out,

1:06:11

okay? It's

1:06:14

just, we believe that there's a

1:06:16

big inequity there. And the

1:06:18

way the system is designed to

1:06:21

get to that point, you'd have to be

1:06:23

a fool. I mean, you've been, your group's

1:06:25

been warned, okay?

1:06:27

And then the next step

1:06:29

is you don't make up time and

1:06:32

your group gets put on the clock or you

1:06:34

get put on the clock individually. And

1:06:37

now you're being timed and you go over

1:06:39

your time. Now I've got to come out

1:06:41

and tell you that I had you for

1:06:43

a bad time. And I have

1:06:45

to explain to you that the next time that

1:06:47

happens, it's going to be a one stroke penalty.

1:06:50

So that's like three or four

1:06:52

stages that we go through before that.

1:06:54

And that's the way the system's designed

1:06:56

by the players themselves. I

1:06:59

guess like where I would, every

1:07:01

other sport, what amazes me

1:07:03

about professional athletes in general

1:07:05

is the difference between Tom

1:07:07

Brady and someone with first

1:07:10

round top five pick

1:07:13

measurables is the way

1:07:15

that Tom Brady is able to quickly

1:07:17

process coverages and make

1:07:19

decisions under the gun under

1:07:21

the highest pressure situations. To

1:07:24

me, one of the things

1:07:26

about professional golf is that when

1:07:29

the pressure ratchets up, when it is

1:07:31

the time to go win, I

1:07:33

want to see players have to

1:07:36

continue to make decisions, pull the

1:07:38

trigger when they are in uncertain

1:07:40

times. Tom Brady throwing a pass

1:07:42

before he knows the receiver's open

1:07:46

and making that play is like a player

1:07:48

not really sure about the wind, having

1:07:51

to trust his gut and

1:07:53

pull the trigger, hit the shot under

1:07:55

a stipulated time to me is a

1:07:57

more compelling product. And obviously you can

1:07:59

disagree. here, but there's also a physical

1:08:01

fitness aspect of this, right? If I have

1:08:04

to climb the 18th Hill at Riviera and

1:08:06

I'm up and I hit the shortest tee

1:08:08

shot and I have 40 seconds

1:08:10

to play, I might be breathing a

1:08:13

little bit harder. There is a, there's a real,

1:08:15

like when you talk about a, is

1:08:17

golf a sport or is this really like

1:08:19

just a, you know, we can wait and

1:08:21

we can wait out wind until it dies

1:08:23

down to hit the shot and wait two

1:08:25

minutes because I know I'm in the last

1:08:28

group and I'm not going to get popped

1:08:30

for this, this one time. Like to me,

1:08:32

there seems to be like a little bit

1:08:34

of a clash with pace of play and

1:08:36

the idea of competition and playing an outdoor

1:08:38

sport with like, with levers that

1:08:40

are pulled against you as a competitor. I

1:08:44

agree with every point you're making there. I

1:08:46

would love to see everyone again, like I

1:08:49

told you, our goal is to

1:08:51

identify the slowest players, get

1:08:54

them to understand that the numbers

1:08:56

don't lie, that they are a

1:08:59

slow player and that

1:09:01

they need to change. And that's,

1:09:03

that's a big part of our job is to

1:09:06

get them to understand that we're not looking

1:09:08

to make them a fast player. I

1:09:11

just want you to be an average speed

1:09:13

player. That's all I'm asking of you. We

1:09:15

want everyone playing about the same

1:09:17

amount of time, you know? I

1:09:20

think to your point there is they

1:09:22

get too cerebral and you're looking

1:09:24

for them to be more reactionary and

1:09:26

be athletes out there. Make a decision

1:09:28

and go with it. And I

1:09:31

have the same frustrations as you at times

1:09:33

because I love the product as well.

1:09:35

And that, you know, I'm a fan as well

1:09:38

as, you know, working out there.

1:09:40

So I want to see it

1:09:42

go quicker. We all do, but, you

1:09:45

know, it's, it's a balance.

1:09:48

It's like everything in life. There's a balance

1:09:50

there. And we've got to get these guys

1:09:52

to see the numbers

1:09:55

and the numbers don't lie. And you

1:09:57

can give all the excuses you want,

1:09:59

but the. numbers do not lie.

1:10:01

Everyone's being treated the same.

1:10:04

It's mechanized now. You can't tell

1:10:06

me that it's a volunteer that

1:10:08

you had that it was hitting

1:10:11

the button a little late. It's

1:10:13

now a fully automated system that

1:10:16

is doing it. When someone hits

1:10:18

a shot, it records right away

1:10:21

and the clock starts on the next

1:10:23

person. It's a very well

1:10:25

thought out system that throws out all

1:10:28

the bad data in four

1:10:31

or five different categories. It's

1:10:34

holding everyone to the same

1:10:38

measurements. All right. Let's get

1:10:40

out of here with a few fun questions. Yeah,

1:10:42

let's ask some good ones here. Come on. You're

1:10:44

putting a lot of heat on me here. I'm

1:10:47

sorry. I don't want to be like

1:10:49

Bryson with Ant Hill. Give me a

1:10:51

couple of layups, will you? What's

1:10:55

your favorite golf course to go to

1:10:58

to set up? What's the place that

1:11:00

you find is to be

1:11:02

for you and your job where

1:11:04

you nerd out and have the

1:11:06

most fun doing a tournament at?

1:11:10

We just came from it. I hate to say it.

1:11:14

Pebble Beach, you can't beat it.

1:11:17

It's just so beautiful. It

1:11:20

can be such a great golf course. If

1:11:24

it's the right time and

1:11:26

the conditions are right, it can

1:11:28

be just an outstanding golf

1:11:30

course. It has been. I hate to

1:11:32

say it. People complain about

1:11:35

where we are in the schedule.

1:11:37

We've had stretches of four or five

1:11:39

years with perfect conditions out there. It's

1:11:42

just unfortunate you know you're going to

1:11:44

get a couple now and then with

1:11:47

this Pineapple Express El

1:11:49

Nino. The

1:11:51

atmospheric river. The atmospheric river came

1:11:54

into the mainstream. It

1:11:56

comes with it. I said it's

1:11:58

the price of being in paradise.

1:12:00

It's but that's my I love

1:12:03

being at Pebble Beach. Um,

1:12:06

I love I love working the

1:12:08

Masters tournament I mean such

1:12:10

a gorgeous place Great

1:12:13

people everything about the event I

1:12:17

really cherish going to the open

1:12:20

championship and the tradition of

1:12:22

the open Yeah,

1:12:25

it's all those iconic venues very

1:12:28

very blessed to do what I do Is

1:12:30

there a golf course that? You

1:12:32

think that hasn't been on the

1:12:35

PGA tour? But maybe you're like wow I would

1:12:37

love to see that be a PGA tour venue

1:12:39

and might have the space to accommodate some of

1:12:41

the infrastructure any Young dream

1:12:44

bucket list add this to the PGA tour

1:12:46

rotation. I Don't

1:12:48

know that I don't know. I've played some

1:12:50

great courses over in Ireland that just I

1:12:53

loved I mean, I don't know if you guys have

1:12:55

ever played old head in can sail

1:12:58

if you Haven't you should put that

1:13:00

on your bucket list? You

1:13:03

know, there's great courses

1:13:05

over there Waterville Valley Bunyan

1:13:09

I mean gosh Scotland's littered

1:13:11

with courses. I'd love to see us

1:13:13

play and see how the guys could

1:13:15

do and Who

1:13:17

knows who knows what the future brings, you

1:13:19

know as we as we there's a

1:13:22

lot of talk about international play

1:13:24

in the future and Maybe

1:13:27

that will give us the opportunity

1:13:29

to go to some of these

1:13:31

great great iconic venues and around

1:13:34

the world so Yeah,

1:13:37

I Don't have any

1:13:39

one that jumps out. That's a great answer Is

1:13:42

your least favorite thing to do? Preferred

1:13:45

lies is that your least favorite part of

1:13:47

the job when you got an Institute preferred

1:13:49

life but my my

1:13:51

least favorite part of the job is interviews,

1:13:53

but I Preferred

1:13:59

lies It's a

1:14:01

necessary evil for professional golf.

1:14:05

We have to have certain standards

1:14:08

and the ability

1:14:10

to improve

1:14:12

your lie within a club length when

1:14:15

the golf course reaches a point of

1:14:18

saturation like we had last week,

1:14:20

it allows us to continue to

1:14:22

play golf, right? But

1:14:24

it also can lead to

1:14:27

some scenarios where a

1:14:29

player can gain a significant

1:14:32

advantage. So I understand why

1:14:35

some of the major championships are

1:14:37

reluctant to ever put preferred lies

1:14:40

into play. But

1:14:43

sometimes you've got to make sure that you're

1:14:45

going back out onto a golf course that

1:14:47

you can continue play on. So

1:14:50

there's a balance there. All

1:14:52

right, last question. I

1:14:55

promise. All

1:14:58

right. You're off of red. We

1:15:01

can't ask anymore. What

1:15:04

is when you think back

1:15:06

to like one ruling, like it's the

1:15:08

ruling that pops in your head, the

1:15:10

most often, what is it in

1:15:13

the history of your career? Like there's

1:15:15

got to be one that just like

1:15:17

jumps to mind every time. Well,

1:15:20

probably one of the most painful

1:15:23

ones was with Webb Simpson. And

1:15:26

this was at the Zurich Classic of New Orleans.

1:15:29

And Webb was I think at the

1:15:31

time he was leading by one shot.

1:15:35

And I got called to the green on

1:15:37

I want to say his whole 15. And

1:15:45

he had put his putter down

1:15:47

behind the ball and

1:15:50

the ball moved. But he had

1:15:52

put his putter down, you know,

1:15:54

maybe in half an inch to an

1:15:56

inch behind the ball. And

1:15:59

it wasn't like you put it down. confirmed the way he

1:16:01

was describing it to me, but

1:16:03

at that time, the

1:16:05

weight of the evidence went against the

1:16:07

player. His feet were in the position,

1:16:10

in the address position. Everything

1:16:12

was saying that he was taking his address

1:16:15

to make the stroke and it

1:16:18

led to him being penalized and

1:16:21

he ended up losing the tournament. Shortly

1:16:25

after that, the rule ended

1:16:27

up changing, thankfully, when accidental

1:16:29

movement occurs on the putting

1:16:31

green. Thank God

1:16:33

that has happened. We've avoided

1:16:36

a lot of silly penalties through the years

1:16:38

where I think it was

1:16:40

a situation where the ball just hadn't quite

1:16:42

settled. Maybe it

1:16:44

was on the edge of a spike mark or something, or

1:16:46

a little spike

1:16:49

imprint and it ended up falling and

1:16:51

it just happened to do it while

1:16:53

the guy's putter was behind the ball.

1:16:56

You hated that. That was really hard.

1:17:01

And then I had one

1:17:03

ruling over at the President's

1:17:05

Cup years ago in Korea

1:17:08

that we ended up getting wrong as

1:17:11

a committee. I

1:17:13

wasn't sure and I put it out to

1:17:15

the committee and we

1:17:17

had some of the best rules minds

1:17:20

in the entire world there on site.

1:17:23

It was one of these real obscure ones. We

1:17:27

had the one ball rule in effect and

1:17:29

Phil Mickelson had changed his ball

1:17:32

without announcing it to anyone. It

1:17:36

was four ball match play and

1:17:39

I told him that I believed he

1:17:41

was disqualified from the hole but it

1:17:43

didn't disqualify his partner. And

1:17:46

I put it out over the radio and long

1:17:48

story short, in the end we

1:17:50

ended up getting it wrong and

1:17:53

it affected the match. weird

1:18:02

weird moment and to keep my head straight

1:18:04

for the rest of the match knowing

1:18:06

that we had made this blunder and I

1:18:09

was a big part of it and

1:18:13

you know in the end in

1:18:15

the end the match ended up being

1:18:17

tied so thank goodness it didn't cost

1:18:19

anyone you know big I

1:18:21

feel like that's like I grew up caddying and

1:18:23

when you're caddying in a club championship match and

1:18:25

you give like a bad read and that's

1:18:28

all you can think about like the next like

1:18:31

like you're they ask you to read another putt and

1:18:33

you're like like you just

1:18:35

like don't even want to step up and

1:18:38

read the pot because you know you just

1:18:40

butchered the last read yeah yeah exactly

1:18:42

that's a good good analogy right

1:18:44

there yeah Gary where where will

1:18:46

we see you next what's and

1:18:48

thank you obviously for the time

1:18:51

coming off of a long week

1:18:53

here yeah absolutely I'm actually

1:18:55

headed to the Mexico Open at

1:18:57

Vedanta and then the

1:18:59

players championship following that so

1:19:02

I've got a little bit of a break in

1:19:04

my schedule right now which is good I need

1:19:06

a little little time off

1:19:09

go do something different for a few days

1:19:12

and get away from golf that's

1:19:15

a good time to be in North Florida too

1:19:17

good time of year to have a little time

1:19:19

off I'm headed to Maine oh wow

1:19:22

I go snowmobiling up in Maine so

1:19:24

I just kind of get away from

1:19:26

it I'm here in Massachusetts I look

1:19:29

forward to a little break for a

1:19:31

few days re regroup and then come

1:19:33

back come back at it all right

1:19:35

thanks so much Gary and look forward

1:19:37

to seeing you at a tournament sometime

1:19:40

soon okay thanks guys thanks for

1:19:42

having me on a lot of fun all

1:19:52

right thanks to Gary young that

1:19:55

was he was more than generous with his

1:19:57

time and he was coming off a red eye that

1:19:59

was a valentine Italian effort as

1:20:01

he fended off some of our

1:20:04

questions and concerns about pace of play.

1:20:06

Joseph, do you have a recommendation

1:20:08

for everybody? I do, Andy,

1:20:11

and I'm curious if you've watched this. So

1:20:13

I'm going the golf route

1:20:15

actually this week, and one of my

1:20:17

favorite things to do is watch old

1:20:19

golf tournaments on YouTube. Generally

1:20:22

I watch old editions of the Masters, a lot

1:20:24

of 2005 to 2018, 19, a lot in that range.

1:20:29

I like to go back and watch, but recently

1:20:31

I stumbled upon, I didn't realize the 2016

1:20:35

Open Championship at Royal Trune is

1:20:37

on YouTube, went

1:20:39

back and watched that, the epic

1:20:41

duel between Phil Mickelson and Henrik

1:20:43

Stenson, all-time golf tournament. It

1:20:46

is a delightful watch, and the added bonus is

1:20:48

that the Open Championship this year is at Royal

1:20:50

Trune, where it was in 2016. So

1:20:53

it helps you get prepped for the upcoming

1:20:55

Open Championship, and you get to relive an all-time

1:20:59

duel between two excellent ball strikers. So

1:21:01

it was really fun to go back

1:21:03

and rewatch that, would highly recommend it.

1:21:05

Andy, have you watched that tournament since

1:21:07

2016? I

1:21:09

have not. I remember it

1:21:12

vividly. I remember where I watched

1:21:14

it. I was in Los Angeles.

1:21:16

I remember just waking

1:21:19

up at Weird Hours West Coast, and

1:21:21

I just vividly remember

1:21:23

watching that golf tournament,

1:21:25

epic shots. God,

1:21:28

that was a duel. I'm going to go back

1:21:30

and watch that. It was a good recommendation. I

1:21:32

have a recommendation on YouTube as well. Two

1:21:35

YouTube recommendations. I

1:21:39

would say that I'm not

1:21:41

a huge Bryson DeChambeau fan. That

1:21:44

being said, I stumbled across his

1:21:46

YouTube page recently, and I

1:21:49

watched the Sergio Garcia, Bryson

1:21:51

DeChambeau won club nine-hole match.

1:21:55

Awesome. It was so

1:21:57

awesome. I

1:22:00

think it was just like an amazing thing

1:22:02

to watch Sergio do as somebody who has

1:22:05

watched basically Sergio Garcia's

1:22:07

entire career to watch

1:22:09

him play nine holes with a

1:22:11

five iron. They putt with

1:22:13

a putter. Putt with a

1:22:15

putter, but he used a five iron. He

1:22:17

was just, he hit

1:22:20

some just extraordinary shots and it

1:22:22

makes you just like long

1:22:24

for a little bit tougher equipment so

1:22:26

that you could see guys have to

1:22:29

hit shots again because

1:22:31

he was amazing in this. I

1:22:34

think Bryson, by the end of it, Bryson I

1:22:36

think got punched in the face right at the

1:22:38

start. This is not the

1:22:40

type of golf that Bryson plays like shot making.

1:22:42

It's very, it blasted up there, hit

1:22:44

a wedge. This

1:22:48

is a way different golf with one

1:22:50

club. Bryson used a seven iron. By

1:22:54

the end of it, Bryson was hitting some

1:22:56

really cool shots. I thought it was an

1:22:58

amazing YouTube video. Like honestly, like

1:23:00

one of the best, maybe the

1:23:02

best golf YouTube video I've ever

1:23:05

watched is this one

1:23:07

club match between Bryson DeChambeau

1:23:09

and Sergio Garcia. Awesome

1:23:12

golf, awesome golf shots. It's really like if

1:23:14

you're into golf, that's what you want to

1:23:17

see from a YouTube

1:23:19

video. I've watched it. I believe it.

1:23:22

Is it at Austin Golf Club, Andy? No,

1:23:24

it's at Spanish Oaks. Okay, that's right. I've watched

1:23:26

it. It's pretty short. I want to say it's

1:23:29

like an hour and a half or maybe not

1:23:31

even that long. Not even. I

1:23:33

think it's like 45 minutes. Really?

1:23:36

See some cool shots. Sergio's working the

1:23:38

ball both ways. Bryson's like hitting a

1:23:41

seven iron over trees from like a

1:23:43

figure. Yeah, he flops it. He flops

1:23:45

it. He flops a seven iron like

1:23:47

60 yards over a big tree and

1:23:49

stopped on a dime. Some

1:23:52

incredible shots. Yep, it's

1:23:54

a good watch. I like that, Andy. Legitimately,

1:23:56

some of the best golf shots I've seen hit

1:23:58

in a long time. from Sergio. I'm

1:24:00

with you. All right. That

1:24:03

does it for this show. Big

1:24:05

thanks to Matt Ruschis for producing and

1:24:07

editing this podcast. As a reminder,

1:24:10

we got a huge week in Club TFE. If

1:24:12

you're not a member of Club TFE,

1:24:15

maybe check it out. But it's Riviera

1:24:17

week. I know Garrett is going to get

1:24:19

a Riviera profile up sometime this week on

1:24:21

the golf course. I

1:24:23

did a little one thing about every hole

1:24:25

at Riviera that'll be up early this week.

1:24:29

But yeah, if you don't yet, sign up for Club TFE. It is

1:24:31

$120 for the year. We also just announced

1:24:35

our summer member guest. That is

1:24:37

at an awesome golf course on

1:24:39

Long Island. But yeah,

1:24:42

and you can get access to that

1:24:44

if you're a member. So big thanks.

1:24:47

For more information on Club

1:24:49

TFE, go to thefridayeck.com/membership, and

1:24:51

you can see all

1:24:53

the benefits you get there. But

1:24:56

big thanks to Joseph for coming on, and

1:24:58

we will be back later this week with

1:25:00

a new episode of The Friday Podcast.