0:07

Alright, we

0:09

are live Wednesday morning. There's a new schedule

0:12

and Monday, Wednesday and Friday, those are the

0:14

days that we will get a live show

0:16

here on The Real Network. If

0:18

you have any complaints, please direct them to

0:21

Santa Claus at the North Pole. If you

0:23

have compliments, you can send them to us.

0:26

Just send them to me. I'll put my

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email address at the bottom of the screen just

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now. If you have any questions

0:32

or comments, you can drop them in the YouTube.

0:34

We always pay attention to those. And

0:36

if you haven't signed up already, subscribed and liked and

0:38

all that stuff, I'm not going to harass you about it,

0:40

but do it at some point during the day today.

0:43

Lots of cool stuff. Jittery Curser

0:45

says, I would love to hear Nathan's parody songs

0:47

for old time's sake. I think he did one

0:49

for Mabale and a couple other people too. Yeah,

0:52

you did. When we started Cliff

0:54

Central. We did one called Memory Glance

0:56

for Lian. I remember that. Yeah, and about her breasts.

0:58

And she loved that. In fact, we had a couple.

1:00

We had a range of those. Yeah, we had the

1:02

Ginger song was the first, I think. Yeah. Yeah,

1:05

that was quite a hit. Probably Loeweld's biggest hit

1:07

was this. No, no, no, State

1:09

was a very good band. You guys were

1:12

amazing. Thank you kindly. Yeah. You don't get

1:14

together and do that anymore? We

1:17

lost two of our members to COVID. Dead, dead.

1:19

No, no, no, no. They just

1:21

moved to Cape Town. Oh, okay. I'll do

1:23

it dead. No. It really didn't kill that

1:25

many people. No, no, but it's made

1:27

a lot of semigration happen. So

1:30

yeah, there's just two of us now. So we go by the name.

1:32

Are they voting DA? Are they in

1:34

Cape Town? Are they voting DA? I'm pretty sure.

1:36

Yeah, I'm sure that's what happens there. Yeah,

1:39

I mean, look, they've got electricity there. They

1:41

got running water. It's quite amazing. That is

1:43

quite cool. I've been there a couple of

1:45

times and I've seen it for myself. Their

1:47

roads are really good. Yeah.

1:51

They even have solar powered traffic lights.

1:54

Amazing. We don't even have traffic

1:56

lights in Joburg. They tried it in Joburg but they

1:58

stole the solar panels, I think. There

2:02

are a couple of questions

2:05

here. This

2:07

is interesting. What is eating

2:10

Gilbert grape was. Something.

2:12

That's really that's was also Leo Dicaprio

2:14

why award was net yards that is

2:16

He played the the those on a

2:18

Dog and rather yeah yeah that and

2:20

if you can say that well yeah

2:22

because they they often say in relation

2:24

to that movie since you brought up

2:26

the says the cats as a citizen

2:28

at a bit of movie trivia that

2:31

that is where someone said you never

2:33

go full retard if you're an actor

2:35

and producer has been stellar under notice

2:37

that Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder

2:39

a never go full yes which you

2:41

never go for it. Is ironic with

2:43

him in Blackface. correct near Memphis. that

2:45

movie would not be made today. So

2:47

far as what a genius movie actually

2:49

surprised did a very interesting it's V

2:52

will be playing it out on Friday

2:54

with David Walliams from Little Brass. Amazing

2:56

guy! He's written a whole bunch of

2:58

kids books am and they are selling

3:00

like hotcakes yeah everybody's reading them as

3:03

got two nephews who are just loving

3:05

Has bucks is one called gangsta granny

3:07

yeah I like the new role.he's the

3:09

new wrote down and I interviewed him

3:11

act. As last week. And

3:13

will be playing out on Friday. And.

3:16

Any coming to South Africa. And

3:18

he will apparently be here next week.

3:20

but we got into talking about Little

3:22

Britain and how that would never be

3:24

made today. so you know I remember.

3:27

When. That so came out. There

3:29

was this one stitch they did.

3:32

But. I had just this little white guy.

3:34

And his these two enormous women.

3:37

One was begin setting, black one

3:39

was begin sat and whites. And

3:42

they had like terrible they were

3:44

wearing these. What it is, it's

3:46

above that. The yeah, that's right

3:48

away. Like the and seven sumo

3:50

suits effectively been with horrible i'm

3:52

Tits and Really Bad or there

3:54

And. dimples the a if

3:56

that's the biggest set suits you to

3:58

get and as it was bad Duvie

4:01

and Desiré, okay, Desiré Brown, I think

4:03

was her name. So they had these

4:05

two, and I used that picture

4:08

of this thin white guy and these two,

4:10

you know, really big women, one

4:12

black and one white, as my profile

4:14

picture on Facebook. But

4:17

Facebook doesn't know, or the people who

4:19

were complaining didn't know, that these were

4:21

suits, that these weren't really women. And

4:24

I said it was Leanne and Mabali who were on the

4:26

show with me, right? And

4:28

I said, this is my profile picture, they,

4:30

they, I lost my Facebook account. Oh

4:33

my word. I told him about this, he's like, yeah, you

4:35

deserve that. It's like, what's happened

4:37

to you? You used to be fun. Do

4:39

you remember the sketch they did with the

4:41

racist old lady? Yes, she would

4:43

vomit. She would taste the jam

4:45

squares. And she'd go, oh, wonderful jamming squares.

4:48

And they'd be, who made that? Oh, that

4:50

was made by Rancoupe Shremesemi. I mean, this

4:53

vomit everywhere. She just starts throwing up. It's

4:56

so crazy. Oh,

4:58

what a great show. All right. So Nathan

5:01

Rose with us today and we are spending

5:03

some time just talking nonsense. Just by the

5:05

way, we were talking before

5:07

the break about Kirsty Noem,

5:09

who's just had the worst

5:12

vice presidential candidature in history because she

5:14

just spent her entire book shooting animals

5:16

and talking about how she wants to

5:18

shoot more animals. This bloodlust, this desire

5:20

to kill, kill, kill, kill. They've actually

5:23

introduced her as a villain in Paw

5:25

Patrol. And I'm pretty sure she's

5:27

not going to make it onto the

5:29

list of most loved Americans. But there's

5:31

another thing that she said in her book, which I

5:33

found interesting. And this is all coming out this week.

5:37

She talked about Bad Day to Be a Ghost, Bad

5:39

Month to Be Kirsty Noem.

5:41

Apparently, she also lied about

5:44

meeting Kim Jong Un. Oh,

5:47

wow. She's like, I

5:49

met Kim Jong Un. And

5:51

this is in the first draft of the book. She's

5:53

now gone back and changed it because people found out

5:55

she never met him. She's like, I

5:57

stood up to that little dictator. Meanwhile,

5:59

she's never met the guy. And

6:01

now in all of her interviews, can

6:04

you imagine what a disaster this is? Her

6:06

PR person must be the worst PR person in

6:08

the world. First of all, to say that, yeah,

6:10

yeah. Talk about shooting animals. And second of all,

6:13

lie about meeting certain world leaders.

6:15

And then when she goes on

6:17

important American TV talk shows and

6:20

she's asked direct questions like, did

6:22

you meet Kim Jong-un? You

6:24

must hear the answers. I

6:26

sure did. I dragged them straight to

6:28

the gravel pit along

6:31

with my PR agent when she told me

6:33

I couldn't write about shooting the animals. She

6:37

should shoot an... That's who she should take

6:40

to the gravel pit is that

6:42

PR person or her ghost writer.

6:44

She's blaming her ghost writer too.

6:46

Like, okay. Chachi Pity. She did

6:48

the audio book. Okay. So

6:50

she read her own book as

6:53

an audio book. And while

6:55

reading it, she didn't go, maybe

6:57

I should take out that lie about meeting

6:59

Kim Jong-un. Or the part where she

7:02

shot cricket in the head. Oh yeah. Cricket

7:04

and a billy goat and how I

7:06

want to shoot Joe Biden. That's how she ends

7:09

the book, by the way. I mean, it's just,

7:12

you could not have a

7:14

more disastrous entry into

7:16

public life on the national stage. Wow.

7:19

What an absolute mess this woman is. You

7:21

know, when people say, oh, you don't have

7:23

enough of a goat, Republicans, just listen to

7:26

this show again on repeat a couple of

7:28

times. I don't think we've ever spent this

7:30

much time talking about any Democrat in America's

7:32

campaign. So there we go. All

7:35

right. One or two other things that are in

7:37

the news that we need to talk about this morning. And by the way,

7:39

we've got a guest popping in just now. He

7:41

has written a book called... What is it?

7:43

How to fix... How to fix...

7:45

...brackets, Unfuck a country. Yes.

7:48

His name is Roy Haberman. He's going to be with

7:51

us. And he's going to talk to

7:53

us about all the ideas he has of how we could

7:55

fix South Africa. Hold it up so it looks pretty. There

7:57

we go. There's Nathan with the book. Yeah,

8:00

isn't that nice? Beautiful. That's

8:02

great. Okay, so we'll talk to him about his book. But he's basically

8:04

going to tell us about the sex E's

8:06

that he reckons we can fix. Sure,

8:09

that's a lot of E. Yeah, if we get... I

8:11

wouldn't do more than one. Yeah, you're really going

8:13

to have a very rough festival if you do more

8:15

than one. That would fix the country though. No, you

8:18

think? You think it would make everyone happy? A rough

8:20

sex E? Yeah. Well, apparently we

8:22

were talking about AI earlier. A

8:24

Maryland high school athletic director is

8:26

accused of using AI to create

8:28

a fake audio recording of his

8:30

principal making racist and anti-Semitic remarks.

8:33

The recording spread online and caused

8:35

significant disruption at the school, the

8:37

principal being temporarily removed from his

8:40

position facing harassment. Investigators

8:42

believe the athletic director created the

8:44

deep fake to retaliate against the

8:46

principal who was investigating him for

8:48

possible financial misconduct. Okay, so let

8:50

me explain the story. This

8:53

guy who's like the sports guy, he's the sports

8:55

coach at the school, the jock. Okay,

8:57

so first of all, the fact that he can even

8:59

figure out AI. Yeah. It's

9:02

pretty good. He peaked in high school.

9:04

Yeah, most sports PE

9:06

teachers at school, athletic director is what

9:08

they call him. These are

9:10

not the runaway academic,

9:13

duck scholar types, right? Yeah.

9:16

This guy finds an AI version of the

9:19

principal's voice. He makes it. He obviously recorded

9:21

it. Probably used to re-voice them. That one

9:23

that we were talking about this morning. And

9:26

then he makes this really obvious thing with

9:28

this guy's like, we're all N-word,

9:30

N-word, and the Jews. And

9:33

he's like saying all these things, which, I

9:35

mean, I don't know this principal, but

9:37

I'm pretty sure if you're

9:40

a principal and you are

9:42

in a meeting with your staff, you wouldn't

9:44

use language like that in any

9:46

place. He might talk about the fact that

9:48

he showed his dog once, but he wouldn't

9:50

drop that anyway. But no, I mean, everybody

9:52

knows that that's the most disgraceful and toxic

9:54

thing you can do. You

9:56

will be canceled these days. So this

9:58

guy makes this fake. recording this

10:01

AI version. It took the

10:03

police about a week to figure it out. But

10:05

they figured that this guy had actually just done

10:07

it because the principal was actually investigating him for

10:10

stealing money. So

10:13

this is going to happen more and

10:15

more. Just get ready for deep fake

10:17

hoaxes. Yeah. Can you imagine what that

10:19

is like on the international political scale?

10:22

Like having Putin

10:24

giving an address where he says,

10:26

yep, we're going to bomb America

10:28

or whatever. You know, very scary

10:31

times. So I just think we've

10:33

all got to get ready because we've already seen

10:36

like non deep fake versions

10:38

of this like Jesse Smollett.

10:41

You remember him? The guy

10:43

faked his own harassment and

10:46

attack. I too,

10:48

MAGA hat wearing white guys turned

10:50

out to be too Nigerian. He'd

10:52

hired to make

10:55

it look like he was roughed up nonsense.

10:57

It was such nonsense. One of my

10:59

favorite stories. It's such a great story,

11:01

right? Because it's so obviously bullshit. But

11:04

anyway, it took us a while to figure out that he

11:06

was making it up. Yeah. And he stuck

11:09

to his story even after that. He was like, no,

11:11

no, no, it really happened. So I

11:13

suppose when you're that deep and a

11:15

lie, yeah, it's very difficult to climb

11:17

out. But now with AI, we're going

11:19

to have even worse situations

11:21

to try and investigate here. Can you

11:23

imagine whether it's true or not the

11:25

recording? Can you imagine proof in crimes?

11:28

Oh, boy. When you can

11:30

literally use Sora to generate the

11:32

crime happening with the person doing it. Or

11:35

you can generate some video of you on

11:37

close circuit television sitting at home watching TV.

11:39

Yeah, there's my alibi. There's my alibi. I'm

11:41

at home. I'm telling you, this is a

11:43

police are going to have to be really

11:45

sharp to catch these people out. So we're

11:47

going to have to get some of this.

11:50

Did you know that May 8th today is

11:53

the World Red Cross and Red Crescent Day?

11:57

I didn't know. Neither did I. And

12:00

you don't have to worry about that ever again. What

12:02

is the Red Crescent? Well, okay. So the Red Cross

12:05

and Red Crescent are basically... They

12:08

give... And they do aid. ...medical care

12:10

and aid and food. And they look

12:12

after people who are in war zones,

12:15

refugees, that kind of thing. So they do quite good

12:18

work. Did you hear in Congo? And

12:21

the Red Cross is Christian that the

12:23

Red Crescent is Muslim-backed. Oh, and when

12:25

do they fight? Well, no, they don't

12:27

fight. Like you'd

12:29

rather have the Red Crescent go into Afghanistan

12:32

than the Red Cross. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's

12:34

proselytized about Jesus in Afghanistan. It's not going

12:36

to go well. Did you hear

12:38

about saying, you know, in Congo they're at

12:40

war? Always. But

12:43

they recently bombed two refugee camps

12:46

and killed about 12 people. Horrible.

12:48

Yeah, horrific. So go

12:51

Red Cross and Red Crescent. Yeah, these are guys

12:53

who'll go in and help. And the Red Star

12:55

of David, does that exist? No, but

12:57

there is a theme

12:59

this year which is focused on the importance

13:02

of their emblems in protecting people in need

13:04

during crisis. The organization is committed to those

13:06

who need help the most. Red

13:08

Cross and Red Crescent are often the first to

13:10

respond to disasters and conflicts. Their volunteers provide

13:12

life-saving skills and a beacon of hope and

13:14

a dark time, blah, blah, blah.

13:17

Okay, so a good idea to like take a minute

13:19

to honor the people of the Red Cross and the

13:22

Red Crescent. I suppose you could

13:24

throw in like Médecins Sans Frontières, the doctors

13:26

without borders. You know, good people in this world

13:28

who do good things. I

13:31

don't do good things by comparison. I'm

13:34

not shooting dogs in a gravel pit, but

13:36

I'm not as good a person as these

13:38

people who will go into a war zone. You're a

13:40

voice for the voiceless. I don't know so much. These

13:43

people go into a war zone and help with

13:46

food, with medical aid, with need,

13:49

with, you know, children who lost

13:52

their parents, all kinds of things. So, get

13:54

involved. I mean, these are really good people.

13:57

I often think, where do you think on the

13:59

Enneagram these people come in? Helper? Yeah, probably

14:01

a 2. Number 2 Helper. It's

14:03

amazing. Have you ever heard of Ikigai?

14:08

Ikigai is the Japanese art of

14:10

fixing broken things. Close.

14:12

It's the reason for

14:14

being. Oh, hang

14:16

on. Yes. I was confusing that

14:18

with something else. Were they men? Gold. Were they

14:20

men things of gold? Ikigai, reason for being, but

14:23

there's more to it. There's

14:25

a really beautiful definition which you have not given.

14:28

Yours is way too simplistic. Reason for

14:30

being. Yeah, yeah. I heard someone... I

14:32

thought that was quite beautiful. No, I

14:35

heard someone describe it much more beautifully.

14:38

I still must. My breath

14:40

is a little thin.

14:42

Ikigai is your purpose,

14:45

right? There's a whole description of

14:47

this which I must have read it just recently.

14:49

There are four aspects of it. So it's what

14:51

you love doing, what you're good at doing, what

14:53

people will pay for, and then what

14:55

the world needs. And

14:59

finding the balance between those four

15:01

pillars is your Ikigai. Now

15:03

that's better. You could have started with that. I

15:07

thought you knew because you were so quick to jump into

15:09

it. I didn't. I thought it was the fixing of broken

15:11

things. But that's lovely. Using gold,

15:13

which is actually also beautiful. Sure,

15:15

but if you can find... So where

15:17

you have all four of those overlap

15:19

is where you should be. Yes, yeah.

15:22

And it's hard to do actually. So what

15:24

you love, what you're good at, what

15:27

people will pay you for, and what the world

15:29

needs. Yeah. Damn. So

15:32

if you do what you love and what

15:34

the world needs, it's a mission. So it's

15:36

more like just doing good. But

15:38

you're not necessarily being paid for it and you're

15:40

not necessarily good at it. So

15:44

yeah, to find balance in that thing is

15:46

quite a beautiful thing to just find those

15:49

four things. I think it's amazing. As you said, people

15:51

feel like... Here we go. And suddenly we're back to

15:53

the Enneagram. Yeah. But I mean,

15:55

this is good stuff, right? And I

15:57

like the way that there's a Japanese word for it.

16:00

I must just not confuse it with you. It's a Japanese

16:02

word for everything. Don't know. Is

16:04

there? Pretty much. They always

16:06

have these great words. Ikky guy is how

16:08

my ex describes me, says Carl. My

16:14

pelo says, how do we still have buildings that just collapse

16:16

out of the blue in 2024 like

16:18

that one in George? I don't know if you saw this,

16:20

but it was all over the news

16:22

yesterday. Apparently the premier of the Western Cape, Alan

16:25

Windy, was talking about it. And

16:29

this building was structurally

16:31

unsound, collapsed. I don't know

16:33

if any people were hurt or killed. But

16:37

we've got a lot of dodgy looking

16:39

buildings in Joburg. And

16:41

there was that Umsindiso building,

16:43

I think it is, that was investigated

16:46

by Judge Kumpepa just recently. Also,

16:50

total disaster. There was that other story

16:52

not so long ago of the

16:55

building that no one

16:57

knows who owns it, but everyone

17:00

who was in it was paying rent to some

17:02

gangster. And when part

17:04

of it caught fire, some people couldn't get out because

17:06

the gangster locks them in. But

17:09

that was happening a lot a

17:11

few months ago. There were a lot

17:13

of burning buildings. I think they were trying to get

17:15

rid of squatters in the...

17:18

It's horrific. I mean, listen. In

17:20

the gnome way of doing things. Apparently,

17:24

if you go to some really dangerous

17:26

countries, this is something I only heard the other

17:28

day and I thought it was fascinating.

17:31

You must never take the top floor.

17:35

The penthouse. Yeah, you must never take the top

17:37

floor. Even the top floor of a building. You

17:39

should always be like one floor up, maximum

17:42

two floors up. So you can

17:44

get out if the building

17:46

is hijacked or catches fire.

17:49

Yeah, so you've got to think about these things if

17:51

you go to dangerous countries. So the CEOs

17:54

are opting to have their... Put

17:57

them on the first floor. you

18:00

would think, oh, well, give me the top floor. That's the one

18:02

with the best view. Or you'd

18:04

think it was the safest, but it isn't. So how

18:06

do you feel being on the top floor here? Well,

18:09

it's not a very high building. Plus, I know where

18:11

the stairs are. And

18:13

we've got this cool balcony set up, which

18:16

I could Spider-Man down easily. OK, cool. Don't

18:18

you think? I think you could. Now,

18:21

your upper body strength is incredible.

18:23

Have you ever planned like escape routes as

18:26

you walk into a room or a building?

18:28

Never escape routes, but I've planned crime a

18:30

lot. I don't know what. Like whenever I

18:32

go into a place with high security, like

18:35

a jewelry store or something, I always think,

18:37

how would I do it? I

18:40

don't know why that is. No, I walk

18:42

into especially places where there are a lot

18:44

of people, like crowded places. If

18:47

I'm emceeing an event or whatever, and I'm like,

18:49

where are the fire escapes? Not

18:51

because I think something terrible is going to happen.

18:53

But wherever there's a lot of people, that

18:56

increases the chances that something

18:58

can go wrong. You choose your table

19:00

based on being able to see. Oh,

19:03

definitely. And I have this

19:05

inbuilt thing where whenever I walk into

19:07

a restaurant or a bar or whatever,

19:09

I always sit facing the entrance, always.

19:13

Interesting. So I can see who's coming in.

19:16

I mean, you'd think I was like dodgy, because

19:18

I do this stuff. But it's pure habits. Just

19:21

an assassin, maybe. I don't know. For

19:23

some reason, I like to face the door. I

19:26

like to have my back against a wall. So

19:28

shit doesn't happen behind me. You were Abraham

19:30

Lincoln in a past life. Maybe. Maybe.

19:33

Just check this out in your enneagram. See what

19:35

it means. But I do

19:37

these things almost automatically. It's

19:40

a weird thing. I

19:43

like being aware of my

19:45

surroundings. I like to know where the differences are.

19:47

But isn't that a very South African thing, actually?

19:49

It doesn't come from a fear or a safety.

19:52

I think it's just awareness,

19:54

situational awareness. It's not even

19:56

a subconscious thing. No. It's

19:59

not like I'm... I'm going to be

20:01

freaked out if I sit in a different position.

20:04

But if you and I go and sit down in a

20:06

restaurant and there's a wall, I will put my

20:09

back to the wall usually. Have

20:11

you ever heard of a guy called

20:13

Rupert Sheldrake? No. You

20:16

once mocked me about a book I

20:18

was reading called The Science Delusion. He's

20:22

a scientist. But he's really

20:25

passionate about people keep

20:28

on exploring things. And

20:33

he did experiments on how to know if someone

20:35

is looking at you without seeing

20:37

it. Can you feel someone watching

20:39

you from behind? And

20:42

can you? Apparently. According

20:45

to his studies you can. It's

20:48

sort of a lost sense, I

20:50

guess. I think you get the

20:52

feeling sometimes when you're being watched. I

20:56

always feel like somebody's

20:58

watching me. Right? Yeah.

21:01

There was a Jim Larson

21:03

cartoon about, I can't remember the

21:06

name of the phobia, but it was the

21:08

fear that a duck somewhere is watching you.

21:10

Terrifying. There's a name for that.

21:13

That a duck is watching you. Yes. I've

21:17

never had ducks watching you. Even if

21:19

a duck was watching me, I don't think I'd be scared

21:21

of it. Look at

21:23

this. You're going to shit yourself. There's an actual,

21:26

ananaty-de-aphobia. Ananaty-de-aphobia

21:31

is commonly understood as the fear. Somewhere

21:33

in the world, at some time, a

21:35

duck may be watching you. That's

21:39

for real. Those

21:41

who experience this fear are not necessarily worried

21:43

that the duck may approach or attack them,

21:45

but rather are afraid of being watched or

21:47

tracked by the duck. Now

21:49

they're going about their business. What

21:52

a ridiculous phobia. That's

21:54

got to be rare, huh? Ananaty-de-aphobia. But

21:57

people have it. Yeah, but how many people can

21:59

have that? Do you know how I know about this? because

22:02

in the Osborns Ozzy Osbourne

22:04

and Sharon and the

22:07

kids Jack and The other

22:09

one the other one. Yeah, they were talking

22:12

about it. Okay in like a family podcast

22:14

I think they do and

22:16

and Ozzy's like who fucking duck we've

22:19

been watched by a duck I wouldn't

22:21

want to talk to me watching me the fuck is scared

22:23

of that Great

22:25

I love those people Osborns

22:28

were the original Kardashians. Let's not forget.

22:30

Yeah, they did that stuff before it

22:32

was not cool I've never watched a

22:34

Kardashian do anything. No, and you don't

22:36

need to trust me All

22:38

right. Well, we're gonna talk to Roy in just

22:41

a moment or two find out about how we

22:43

can fix this country Which is very very exciting.

22:45

Apparently the book will make you smarter says Carol

22:47

Peyton. Okay. Well, that's very good Thank

22:50

you. I don't let me just see what Carol Peyton

22:52

says. She says it'll make you smarter Yeah,

22:55

and Teton Buwenny wrote the Forward

22:58

which is good. He also signed our

23:00

money at some stage. He was our governor of

23:03

the Reserve Bank. That's correct now Teton

23:06

Buwenny is more well known for the

23:08

fact that he does recipes on Instagram

23:10

and oh awesome I love that

23:12

he loves to cook. That's what he does

23:15

Your studio is giving PBD broadcast. Look,

23:18

what is that? I Don't

23:20

know what that is. Whoa, so help me with

23:23

that PBD. Yeah Not sure what

23:25

that is here in Durban. I always

23:27

walk around with a German Shepherd. I don't trust these people

23:29

says my pillow Don't worry.

23:31

You just got to be aware of Kirsty

23:33

Nune. Yeah, because she will shoot you in

23:35

the gravel We have a damn about your

23:37

dog Alright, let me

23:39

know James when we've got Dr.

23:41

Roy Haberman on because I want to talk to him

23:44

about this book We've got Nathan

23:46

Rowe in the studio this morning and he is with

23:48

us to talk about all kinds of things Discussed

23:51

a bunch of interesting stuff this morning already.

23:53

Apparently you brought up Japan So here's something

23:55

interesting for you for the first time ever

23:57

a private company has captured a

23:59

close-up for photo of a piece of space debris. The

24:02

mission by Astroscale involved

24:04

a spacecraft skillfully maneuvering near an old

24:07

rocket that has been orbiting Earth since

24:09

2009. The photo

24:11

isn't just a cool space picture, it's a

24:13

crucial first step towards tackling the growing problem

24:16

of space junk. You know there's

24:18

so much... What is that going to do with Japan? Okay, I'll

24:20

tell you now. Uh-uh. So there are

24:22

9,000 tons of debris circling the planet. Keep it.

24:25

And that includes defunct satellites, rocket parts,

24:27

even flecks of paint, all kinds of

24:29

shit. We throw all kinds of stuff into space.

24:32

So it's gold as well? The

24:34

space junk can smash into operational spacecraft, pose

24:36

a threat to people on Earth if it

24:38

falls back down, which it might do. And

24:41

the success of this mission paves the way

24:43

for future efforts to remove all the space

24:45

junk. This could involve capturing

24:47

debris like the one photographed or even

24:50

finding ways to destroy it safely. And

24:52

Japan is the first country, obviously, they're

24:54

the most conscientious. Yeah. Cleanest.

24:57

We need to clean up space. Yeah. I

24:59

love that about Japan. I want to give them all the credit. Have

25:02

you been? No, I've... I'm dying to that

25:04

as well. Oh, me too. Especially after you told us

25:06

Ikiya. Have you watched Shogun? Yes, I

25:08

remember watching Shogun. I haven't seen it yet. I'm dying

25:10

to watch. Yeah. Alright,

25:13

let's see if we can get Roy on, talk

25:15

about the book. Just quickly, Carl

25:17

says I bet the Japanese are cleaning it up like

25:19

they clean up change rooms when they compete in tournaments.

25:22

So every time Japan goes to the

25:24

Olympics or whatever else, they always have

25:26

the most immaculate change rooms. When

25:29

they go to sports events

25:31

at Stadia, they clean up

25:33

after them. Yeah. So beautiful.

25:36

Famous division in the Rugby World Cup last year. Yeah.

25:38

Such tidy, conscientious people. I heard

25:40

as well that when you use

25:42

a train, sometimes you have

25:45

to stop and wait for these old ladies

25:47

because they employ elderly people that

25:49

can't get jobs anymore. And

25:51

these old ladies come and they clean the whole

25:53

train before you get on. And

25:55

apparently there's so much respect for these women.

25:58

It's not like the cleaning staff. It's

26:00

like, thank you for, you know, they're so

26:02

respectful. I love that. They ritualize

26:06

stuff that the rest of us just don't

26:09

pay any attention to. But you know the

26:11

Japanese- I know we're stereotyping here, obviously. There

26:13

are bound to be some really shitty Japanese

26:15

people. Oh, there's a lot of perverts. You

26:17

know that in Japan, cell

26:19

phone manufacturers won't turn off the camera

26:22

sound because there's so many

26:24

people just taking photos of you all the time.

26:27

Creeps. So yeah. All

26:29

right, let's fix our country. So we are

26:32

here to talk to Roy Haberman. He's

26:34

written this book, which is called How to Fix or

26:36

Unfuck the Country. I love it.

26:38

Six things to reboot South Africa, as I

26:40

mentioned, forward by none other than Tito Moweni.

26:43

And here he is. Let's

26:46

talk to him. Hey, Roy, how are you? Good

26:49

morning, Gareth, and thanks very much for having me. I'm

26:51

well, thanks. How are you doing? Well, thanks here

26:53

as well. And well done on the book. Thank

26:56

you very much. Yeah, good job. Okay,

26:58

so you've basically gone into a whole lot

27:00

of things that I think fairly obvious things

27:03

for South Africans. We know what our problems

27:05

are because God knows we deal with

27:07

them every day, right? But what you've done is

27:09

you've made it simple. You've said

27:11

there are six places that we need to focus

27:13

on. And I love this because

27:16

we don't have the ability, the

27:20

focus to be able to sit

27:22

and talk about things for more than 15

27:24

minutes in this country without people being distracted

27:26

or watching sport or some cartoon

27:28

on TV or going on their phones and doom

27:31

scrolling. So what you've done is you've said six

27:33

things, right? Escam,

27:36

education, the environment,

27:38

exports, equality, and

27:41

an ethical and effective state. So

27:44

Escam, what do we need to say here, Roy? Pretty

27:47

obvious, Gareth. What we need to do is we

27:50

need to get private sector generation onto the grid

27:52

as quickly as possible. We

27:54

need... Yeah.

27:59

Pose, if you have Any questions, And

28:02

we lost. Roy said these are thinking. I

28:08

blame ask him. I

28:10

think it probably was probably his his

28:12

guns. that would be hilarious. Rights is

28:15

is is is because he's suddenly had

28:17

to go to load cities and reboot

28:19

as internet access even get him back

28:21

on guys. Decide.

28:24

To met he send all the junk

28:26

to mars like the only sand skills.

28:28

A. Those only fans Girls.

28:31

Are doing everyone a service. Don't you be

28:33

mean to them? You.

28:35

That you don't know. What? It's like

28:37

to be as. That. The

28:40

near san twenty two year old is try to

28:42

pay awaits Reed College. How would you do it's.

28:45

Messy. You. Mean

28:47

student debt is a real thing. That

28:50

might. Japan. Is great. It almost

28:52

everything except having sex is the essence that

28:54

is true. Got a major problem

28:56

that got him. Ah

28:59

Kei, it was his network. Thank you James!

29:02

He normally at this point I'd bring us december. Right

29:05

really knows how to highlight a pointer

29:07

to say, you know? That.

29:10

Escambia Me is making a very poetic

29:12

their estates muddled. I actually turning his

29:14

internet a call a to see what

29:16

it as for environments environment. He's gonna

29:18

catch up down a tree. Dog

29:22

and the Gravel pit. Sir

29:24

I agree with this point the essence

29:26

making about Japan. And the

29:28

Japanese being good at everything said sex.

29:30

They're trying everything. They can get people

29:32

to have children. But. Apparently

29:35

one of the big problems and the system a

29:37

new. I discovered Stenfors old and so that the

29:39

new and so is. That. The.

29:42

Men: Are. So putting the

29:44

Us: Japanese women, why won't you. Have

29:47

sex with Japanese men so I like they

29:49

just I'm not turned on by him at

29:51

all. While. Jealous,

29:55

get a right We got him back

29:57

on on the ice to the ridiculous

29:59

Sir Roy. About as

30:01

can. sorry we got close. I think you had

30:03

load shedding. Some.

30:06

He like that's your. Go. For Usa

30:08

is gun. Yet.

30:10

So at least is obviously bring

30:12

more renewables are to the great

30:15

more private sector generation capacity. As

30:17

we all know when it's accelerate

30:19

the independence on power projects are

30:21

those have been delayed from time

30:23

to time and others a guy

30:25

who saw a Pomeranian economics highlighting

30:27

that if we hadn't stopped that

30:30

program then we probably wouldn't have

30:32

had load sitting at the moment.

30:35

And we all know why. That's why

30:37

that podium was stopped. And that was

30:39

because. ah, The good to got hold of

30:42

the Ceo of a scum of the time

30:44

and they delayed and the that bring on

30:46

of of was on to the grid and

30:48

so that's why we have noted in which

30:50

is what are are are going to books

30:52

and and so I guess is a relatively

30:54

simple answer but we just need to do

30:57

it. But it's a it's a relatively simple

30:59

question to cells. I mean I don't think

31:01

that that's a difficult thing and I think

31:03

my South Africans realize that that's number one.

31:05

wants to sort of that out. Everything else

31:07

get easier right sir. Education

31:09

is way more complicated. And.

31:13

We. Spend more. On education

31:15

than any other country in the

31:17

world. proportion now, budgets and we

31:19

get these something results. I.

31:22

Was talking to a dilemma classes

31:24

The. And. Former statistician general.

31:26

The other day. I interviewed him and

31:29

he. I I learned something new

31:31

I didn't notice before. Black

31:33

graduates have decreased. Since.

31:36

Nineteen Ninety Four. The. Total number

31:38

Black graduates. It's gone down you would

31:41

think. That was one area that the

31:43

government could have done and little bit better and

31:45

but proportion the again. That. Registered

31:47

gun down, the maybe more in

31:49

number, but the proportion has gone

31:51

down. as devastating our

31:53

government's track record an education is

31:56

appalling right Yeah,

32:01

absolutely. I mean, I've coached two big

32:04

sort of global tests. The

32:06

one is called PILZ and the other

32:08

one is called TIMS and essentially the

32:10

one assesses reading and the other one

32:12

assesses progress in mathematics.

32:16

And we do terribly on both of them.

32:18

And the worst is that we do worse

32:20

than Kenya, for example, which actually is one

32:22

of the things I bring out in the

32:24

book and a really good example of a

32:26

country that's done fantastic things in terms of

32:29

improving learning outcomes. And

32:32

one of the things that they've done is really

32:35

have this relentless focus on reading.

32:37

And a really interesting

32:39

thing that they do is they give their

32:41

teachers iPads and they basically

32:44

follow a script on the iPad.

32:46

This is one thing that you

32:48

know, how you bring technology into

32:50

classrooms. And then also the

32:52

other thing that they do, which many other

32:54

countries do that we don't do is make

32:56

sure that the

32:58

teachers actually pitch up for classes. That's

33:02

relatively easy to do in the modern world.

33:04

You can use cell phone

33:06

technology that the teacher has to check

33:08

in or you can just

33:10

take register for them in the morning.

33:13

But there's been a huge pushback from that,

33:15

obviously from the teachers union and even

33:18

the idea of linking pay to where the

33:20

not to come to work and do your

33:23

teaching has been very controversial with the unions.

33:25

So I mean, I completely

33:27

agree with the education is quite difficult, but there

33:29

are very small things we can do to push

33:31

the system kind of forward. I

33:33

mean, it's almost like a joke. Teachers just need to

33:36

pitch, you know, like the first

33:38

rule of success is showing up. And

33:40

you just need to ask him to be able to power the iPads.

33:44

But I do like this because these are

33:46

simple solutions to problems that

33:49

often people like to make look complicated

33:51

so that they can justify the fact that they haven't done

33:53

anything about them. And politicians especially good

33:56

at that, right, Roy? I

34:00

don't suggest that the answer to everything I

34:02

kind of a tribe or so an oscar

34:04

that Anna Anna as X is a really

34:06

nice way of putting it. It's like what

34:08

would you do it in a first year

34:10

or two Said has not trying to fix

34:12

the problems so I certainly wouldn't suggest that

34:14

any of the Ideas and Education chapter would

34:16

fix this huge complex problem. For this is

34:18

what would you do in the first year

34:20

or two or three. so the first year

34:22

maybe what it is he makes you the

34:24

teachers pitch up on to register. You

34:27

know that sort of the thing that you could

34:29

start doing to sekai ten the ship and may

34:32

be done the right direction right away. I'm not

34:34

looking for scientists. You I don't I'm not going

34:36

to start a hassle you noticeable the problems. I.

34:38

Would rather have. Twenty. Roy have

34:41

him and said trying to solve problems then.

34:43

Another sistine miserable South African to

34:45

complain about these things. And bryce.

34:48

Swim One thing with very good at

34:50

miss countries moaning. I liked the fact

34:52

that you're offering actual solution Said: so

34:54

I want to daddy once psycho, let's

34:57

move on from education Can I Also

34:59

don't think that that's entirely the simplest

35:01

problems. How about the environments? And why

35:03

do you think the environment is an

35:05

element of success? Yeah.

35:08

Seven, I think we all know that's

35:10

on. The world is heating up at

35:12

the moment and in a even South

35:15

Africa. we look at the data have

35:17

like thirty forty fifty years and temperatures

35:19

are going up. I'm I'm a dude.

35:21

Make the point that you know we're

35:23

a small country in a big world

35:25

and we're not the biggest emitter. A

35:27

lot of the emissions are probably coming

35:29

from the Us and China, so what

35:31

do we need to focus on his

35:33

we do need to bring.carbon emissions would?

35:35

I think it's more important Wouldn't I

35:37

had to deal with. Climate change at

35:39

of taste and and and mitigation

35:41

said do with effects of that.

35:44

This and this and I took

35:46

a bath. Things that the government

35:48

is ready to hang which is

35:50

the carbon tax on what has

35:52

happened to me. I'm a little.

35:56

Both. the idea of as it makes it

35:58

more expensive for our when com companies emit

36:00

carbon and they pay a tax

36:03

on it and that helps. You

36:05

can use that money to help deal with

36:07

the effects of climate change. I think

36:09

one of the big problems is

36:11

obviously the money is not going

36:14

to where it's needed. And

36:20

also why would you want to hand on the costs of

36:22

all of this to the consumer because that's what's going to

36:25

happen. Companies that pay carbon

36:27

tax are just going to increase their prices so

36:29

the average South African life just gets more expensive.

36:33

Yeah but I think one of the things that

36:35

is exactly that is to make

36:38

things that produce carbon more expensive

36:40

compared to things that don't produce

36:42

carbon. So a really good example

36:44

is actually electricity where for a

36:46

long time it's been much cheaper

36:48

to produce coal-based electricity. And one

36:50

of the things has been a

36:52

carbon tax on the production of

36:54

electricity. It also

36:56

makes electric vehicles cheaper than petrol

37:00

vehicles because for a long time they've

37:02

been cheaper. So it's about kind

37:04

of using the system to change

37:06

how people behave. I'm excited when you

37:08

said environment because I thought clean

37:10

it up is a good start. We live

37:12

in a filthy country where people litter all

37:15

over the place and it's a

37:17

mess and we don't look after our

37:19

rivers and our oceans, there's sewage flowing

37:21

into them. That upsets me enormously.

37:24

Climate change is a first world problem

37:26

and we are such a small speck

37:29

of dust on the global

37:31

carbon footprint that I

37:33

don't think this is an urgent one. I

37:36

don't know, it's not my book, it's your book but I would have

37:38

left that chapter out. What

37:40

about that Canadian lady that suffered

37:42

from climate change? Yes so

37:44

I don't know if you saw this, I put

37:47

it on my Instagram yesterday. An enormous large

37:49

woman who said that she was

37:52

sick because of climate change and

37:54

the Canadian authorities agreed she's dying

37:56

of climate change and I said,

37:59

yeah. because she's so enormous that

38:01

she has her own gravity and

38:04

weather and she's like a planet

38:06

but I don't think that that was very

38:08

accurate to blame climate change for that. But let's

38:11

look at the next one. I like what you're

38:13

doing here Roy so what about equality? Yes,

38:18

equality is complicated in this country. I

38:20

mean I think one of the things

38:22

that we really need to understand and

38:24

I used the old idea in economics

38:27

called the Kuznets curve which says that

38:29

as you start growing sometimes countries

38:32

become less equal and

38:34

what you need to do is rather

38:37

deal with the problem of equality almost

38:40

at source and there the

38:42

education system is one of the problems right.

38:44

If you are poor particularly

38:46

if you poor black and

38:49

female you often end up in very

38:51

bad schooling system

38:55

and you kind of need to

38:57

deal with sort of equality issues from at

38:59

the very beginning. So I

39:01

talk about the difference between equality

39:04

of outcomes versus

39:07

sort of equality of inputs and just

39:09

realizing that we need to focus

39:13

more on getting people into jobs

39:16

necessarily because that also will

39:18

drive essentially better in equality.

39:20

Sorry are you saying that equality

39:22

of outcomes which you're looking for

39:24

equality of input? Inquality

39:26

of input definitely. I think that's

39:28

probably sensible. I think we've got to give everybody

39:31

a chance and again as you said that goes

39:33

back to education but we have to grow the

39:35

economy so there are more jobs. Exactly

39:39

so people aren't getting a chance the

39:41

same kind of chance then obviously it's

39:44

not unsurprising that people then end

39:46

up unequal. I must

39:49

say I had very good chances in my youth and things

39:51

have gone really to do well but for other people that

39:53

don't have those opportunities. So it's more about

39:55

equality of opportunity rather than equality of

39:58

outcome and there that really goes goes

40:00

back to the education system. I mean

40:02

I think it's extraordinary how different

40:05

the opportunities are that people

40:07

get from education. Well,

40:10

you talk about exports and I suppose another

40:12

EU could have used there

40:14

instead is probably the economy in general and

40:17

we just spoke about economic growth. But exports,

40:19

to focus on that particularly, what do you

40:21

think our strength could be from

40:23

potential weakness? So

40:27

the first problem is obviously that things are just not

40:29

going through the ports. For a

40:31

variety of reasons,

40:33

ports have sort of stopped functioning. So a

40:37

friend of mine used to be a blueberry

40:39

farmer and what has happened

40:41

is you just can't get blueberries out from Cape

40:43

Town port. I mean that's a very simple example

40:45

but we know that people that run mining companies can't

40:48

get their mining stuff out. And

40:50

then I look around at what other countries have

40:52

done and what they often do is they concession

40:54

out their ports and allow the ports to be

40:56

operated by huge

40:58

companies that are working around the world.

41:01

And actually I use the example of

41:03

Mozambique where the Mozambican government

41:05

has gone into a 50-50 partnership with

41:07

a group called Cornell, which is a

41:09

Dutch, I think it's a Dutch port

41:13

company. And that's a

41:15

huge implication for how many

41:18

groups can go through

41:20

the port. Similar kind of thing

41:22

has happened in China. They used to

41:24

run their ports themselves about

41:26

10 years ago, particularly

41:28

in Shanghai. They took a decision to start

41:32

concessioning the ports and allowing more private

41:34

sector operators in the ports and that had incredible

41:37

effects actually on the operations

41:39

of the ports. And

41:42

then around Africa, the same thing is happening.

41:44

I was in Kenya a

41:46

few years ago and there's

41:48

a huge port now being built

41:50

to the north of Mombasa. Also

41:52

completely the government

41:56

allows people to build ports and to

41:59

execute the ports. board. Wow,

42:02

our board is not working. Is

42:04

it just like the teachers where they don't show up for work

42:07

or? Well Roy can tell

42:09

you but... Yeah, that is part of the problem.

42:11

...it is administered administratively and management. Management

42:13

is a problem and you know the people who are

42:15

in charge of the next know what they're doing. It's

42:17

competence right? Am I wrong

42:19

Roy? Yeah, yeah, competence is a huge

42:21

part of the problem and

42:24

I think a lack of lack management. So

42:26

that core question of do you pitch up

42:28

in the morning or do you not pitch

42:30

up in the morning? Which

42:33

is sort of... So simple. I

42:36

wish it was that double but I mean just

42:38

to get the simplest of the basic draft I

42:40

think we could start. It's

42:43

like in order to live

42:45

your life get out of bed

42:47

almost. Right. Yeah,

42:49

I was looking at exclusive books with

42:51

my book and there's this book

42:54

I've got. I

42:57

think make your bed every morning

42:59

or something. Steps

43:02

for success. Maybe that should actually

43:04

call my book. Make your bed every

43:06

morning. Yeah, I think that's very very sharp. Okay, the last

43:08

one of your ease, your six ease is ethical

43:11

and effective state. So this

43:13

is a lot more complicated than the other ones because

43:16

I don't think our politicians know what

43:19

being ethical means and

43:21

as for effective, you know

43:23

I watched Concerned Citizen who's

43:26

this brilliant woman who puts out videos

43:28

every week on government,

43:30

how much they cost us

43:32

1.3 billion rand we

43:35

spend on cabinet ministers. That's

43:38

not even counting the deputy ministers. And

43:40

what do we get from them? Effectiveness?

43:43

Zero. Ethics? Zero.

43:46

These are the people who we should address this chapter to don't

43:48

you think? Yes,

43:50

I mean I completely agree with you. So I mean

43:52

I think we just think our politicians are ethical.

43:56

I happen to be in Selim Bush this morning and I

43:58

can tell you everybody's quite angry with. I'm still

44:00

angry with Marcus, you just do. There's

44:02

this deep lack of ethics that

44:05

has really, I think, pervaded

44:07

the country. It's almost

44:09

like we've gone, something has happened how

44:12

we think of the country culturally. We've sort

44:14

of lost our ability to

44:16

even, I think, have

44:19

shame about stealing. I don't know what it

44:21

is. And

44:23

it's a very complicated problem. And actually,

44:25

one of the really great books that

44:27

I read in

44:30

part of my research for this book was a

44:32

book by Brian Klass called Corruptible. And

44:34

he talks about how

44:38

culturally what starts to

44:40

happen with countries is that they become less

44:42

and less ethical because it kind of becomes

44:44

OK. And you kind

44:47

of have to think about fixing that problem

44:50

almost at source. Obviously, the first

44:52

thing you need to do is you need to punish

44:54

people for being unethical. And I don't think we do

44:56

enough of that. So

44:59

you need to not only have rules. We've

45:01

got great laws in this country. We've got

45:03

an anti-corruption act and an anti-money

45:05

laundering act and all these sorts of things. But

45:08

we've had no convictions for many

45:10

of those things. Yeah,

45:13

I couldn't agree with that. We've got a

45:15

constitution that requires people to be accountable. I

45:18

interviewed Judge Johann Crichler yesterday, who was

45:20

one of our first constitutional court judges.

45:23

And he was saying, it's all there. It just

45:25

needs to be implemented properly. I mean,

45:27

otherwise, what do we do, Nathan? We take them down to

45:29

the gravel pit, right? That's what we need

45:32

to do. Maybe

45:35

that is the answer. All

45:38

right, well, we know who to call, but Governor

45:40

Kirsty Noem. All right, so why did you decide

45:43

to write this? Was it just frustration with people

45:45

moaning and not actually coming up with solutions? Or

45:47

did you sit there one night and go, I'm

45:50

going to actually try and solve the problems that the

45:52

rest of South Africa just doesn't seem to want to

45:54

solve? Well, I

45:56

mean, the worst part of the book is it is actually

45:58

a summary of probably what is going on. government policy at

46:00

the moment. It's not my own ideas. Many

46:03

of these ideas actually have come out

46:05

and almost all the ideas come out

46:07

in a treasury document of about six

46:09

years ago. So you're telling me

46:11

they already know this stuff but they're just not doing it? Pretty

46:15

much. That's

46:18

odd, really. Now I'm nine

46:21

pistols. That's maybe why I was

46:23

frustrated about it. It actually comes from treasury

46:26

and they should just damn well do it. I

46:31

think in the country, the IPPs

46:33

and electricity is a really good example. It

46:37

is government policy to have more

46:39

IPPs on the grid. It is

46:41

government policy to allow more private

46:43

sector generation. It is

46:45

government policy to allow concessioning of the ports but

46:48

I don't know what's happening. These things are just

46:50

not being implemented. I had

46:52

a really great discussion at

46:54

one of the interviews with Judge Dennis

46:57

Davis and he made the

46:59

point that we just need to hold

47:01

the politicians accountable for the things that

47:03

they suggest they should be doing and

47:07

have a way of actually using parliament and the

47:09

tools that we have to actually just make sure

47:11

these things are done. Orange

47:14

overalls, I'm telling you, short

47:17

of the gravel pit. So how are we going

47:19

to get them to implement these things, says lovely

47:21

Lady Lee in the comments. Do you

47:24

think that there's a chance that we could have

47:26

any of these ideas executed and that we can

47:28

hold people accountable? Yes.

47:32

I mean, I think fortunately the great thing

47:34

about the book is that I think I'm

47:36

trying to use the book

47:38

as a way of showing people what

47:40

you should hold the politicians accountable

47:42

for. So if they say

47:45

that they're going to do more

47:47

IPPs and allow more private sector

47:50

generation for electricity, then

47:53

we shouldn't be complacent

47:56

and we should encourage them to do what

47:58

they say they're going to do. and

48:00

hold people accountable, make

48:02

sure that we use parliaments to actually get

48:04

these things done. I

48:07

think I had a real bit

48:09

of a big debate with Peter Todd and

48:11

Juan Tolto, who wrote a column a few

48:13

weeks ago saying, oh, South

48:15

Africans must just be more patient. And

48:18

I kind of think maybe the time has come for us

48:20

to be less patient and not

48:23

to sort of accept when the lights go

48:25

out. I think we've sort of become a

48:27

little bit, you know, the low-tilling happens and

48:29

we don't. We kind of, it's OK.

48:31

We sort of go and make coffee

48:33

on the gas stove. Yeah.

48:36

Yeah, I think we're like buremark a plan

48:39

instead of to hear

48:41

it no further. We're almost too resilient. Yeah.

48:44

Maybe that's the problem. Yeah. Our

48:46

passes have been spraying doom in our face for too

48:49

long. Well,

48:51

Roy, all I can say is well done on the

48:53

book. It's called How to Fix a Country, Six Things

48:55

to Reboot South Africa. I think we should hand them

48:57

out for free to government. So maybe

48:59

we can get some NGO to buy 200

49:01

of them. And

49:03

we just give them to those 200 cabinet ministers

49:05

that are costing us so much money. But well

49:08

done on the book. It's terrific. And I see

49:10

Tito Mbaweini wrote the foreword. Yes.

49:13

I mean, I used to work for him. And

49:16

I think he pushed

49:19

a lot of the ideas originally. And

49:22

certainly, we had a long conversation the other

49:24

day. I

49:27

think he shares the view that

49:29

the country has a future,

49:32

I think. We just need to get these

49:34

things done. I'm a

49:36

big fan of Tito Mbaweini. And I also liked

49:38

Trevor Manuel, who you also worked with back in

49:40

those days. So

49:43

there's a part of me that wishes those

49:45

guys were still at the levers of power

49:47

in the Treasury and Reserve Bank. I think

49:49

we had growth, which was commendable at that

49:51

point. We had also had a president who

49:53

wasn't busy feathering his own nest or hiding

49:55

money in a sofa or any of that

49:57

stuff. So let's hope we can get back to

49:59

it. It is an election year. So this

50:01

ultimately is our opportunity to hold

50:04

these people accountable Absolutely

50:09

All right. Very nice to have you on Roy. Thanks

50:11

for joining us this morning That's Roy

50:13

have a man and how to fix a

50:15

country. Well now we know Nathan. Yeah,

50:18

we know what actual policy

50:20

already Very very

50:22

you know, but this is good stuff and the fact that

50:24

it's been sitting then that they already had these answers It's

50:27

to Roy's credit that he dug them out and forced him

50:30

to actually take notice of this

50:32

stuff Yeah, but there we go. Lots of

50:34

fun this morning and thank you for talking

50:36

absolute nonsense with me for two hours We

50:38

didn't even get into one conspiracy theory. Cara's

50:40

appointed. I know but we went to icky

50:42

guy. Yeah, we did Anyagram we went deep

50:46

Shooting many animals. Yeah, Kirsty gnome. Sure,

50:48

which really is what the book should

50:50

have been called Shooting

50:52

many animals and I learned

50:55

a lot this morning You also taught me about a

50:57

bunch of different AI things that I'm gonna help gonna

50:59

spend the whole day now playing with brilliant Including this

51:01

one Suno. I'm gonna write an opera

51:04

write an opera watch me Yeah, and finally

51:06

my dreams will come true. Maybe maybe day

51:09

four and five of the week. You could

51:11

just make musical numbers You

51:13

know, I still I think that I'll leave that to

51:15

you I've seen you perform and you're way better than

51:17

I'll ever go but I can't do it as quick

51:19

as the Suno Doesn't matter you're better. All right, dude. Thanks

51:22

so much. Thanks. I was having you and I promise

51:24

you next time We'll dress you up in the greens.

51:26

Yes looks like you're just a floating head. All right,

51:28

that's all we got time for this morning We will

51:30

see you on Friday morning with

51:32

some P. Way and Ben and all the rest look at

51:34

Nathan trying to grab the books off Looks

51:37

like a mime