0:07

Good morning, bitches. Yes.

0:10

You got to start your day with a little bit of

0:13

an insult to make sure that you're tough enough to handle

0:15

all the other shit that's going to fly your way on

0:17

a Monday morning. This is

0:19

the Gareth Cliff show on our new

0:21

home, The Real Network. And we are

0:23

coming to you live out of Sanson

0:25

Johannesburg. Very exciting. I have my collaborator

0:28

and evil mastermind, Leanne Mull here with

0:30

me today. Isn't that great? How was

0:33

your weekend? Yeah,

0:36

good. You briefly said

0:38

earlier that yours was really, really

0:40

busy. Oh my God. So I mean, even

0:42

if I had something to tell you, I think I'm going to have

0:44

to leave space for yours. Well, okay.

0:46

I'm going to give you the pracy version

0:48

because otherwise we'll be here all morning and

0:50

who wants to hear about someone's weekend and

0:53

my new detail when they were part of

0:55

it. That's like those people who

0:57

pitch up and start telling you about their holiday

0:59

and then show you every picture on their phone

1:01

of every boring thing

1:03

that they saw. And really, most people's

1:05

holidays are boring. You know why? You

1:07

weren't there. Yeah. Right.

1:10

So I have a very good friend who's out

1:13

here from Texas. He, I

1:15

mentioned the other days, he's my cleverest

1:18

friend. Like we've known each other since Varsity and

1:21

he came out

1:24

here for work. His

1:27

long suffering wife and kids are in

1:29

Texas waiting for him, but he

1:32

managed to spend some time with us. So there was a whole group

1:34

of us who were at Varsity together and

1:36

we managed to have like a pretty good

1:39

reunion of kinds on a

1:41

Friday. And he

1:44

stayed with me on Friday night and last

1:46

night, but I was

1:48

really pleased that I could get his visit to

1:51

coincide with the visit of

1:53

the very brilliant Eric Weinstein, who's

1:55

in South Africa. This guy

1:57

is just a different

1:59

level. of smart and

2:01

to see the two of them as I did

2:04

last night talking at this dinner, especially the latest

2:06

flight back my friend so he could spend time

2:09

with Eric and to see the two

2:11

of them talking and kind

2:13

of figuring out very complex things

2:16

made me very happy. I remember we spoke about

2:18

this last week and we said okay so you're

2:20

getting them into a room together, where

2:23

do they start when their minds are so full

2:25

of stuff? Did they just start

2:27

casually? So it's so funny, I said

2:29

to Eric because I interviewed him yesterday and

2:31

that interview will be available soon on the

2:34

podcast party, I'll give you all the details.

2:36

By the way I interviewed Zubi, for

2:39

those people who are interested. Zubi is a

2:41

rapper and a very big

2:43

free thinker, he's from the UK,

2:45

originally born in Nigeria, he

2:48

grew up in Saudi Arabia, I mean what a fascinating

2:50

guy this is. That interview is

2:52

available also on the podcast party, I will tweet out

2:54

the link a little bit later on but you can

2:56

go and find it in my feed if you're interested.

2:59

Well worth listening to Zubi, very

3:02

very talented guy with some interesting

3:04

insights into identity

3:07

and things like that. Anyway,

3:09

I interviewed Eric yesterday and I said to him

3:11

at the beginning, look I don't

3:14

get nervous about interviewing people anymore, I've done

3:16

a lot of these things and I've met

3:18

some phenomenal people, it's the

3:20

best job in the world in some respects. It's

3:23

the University of Us, right? So if you listen

3:26

to the show, you get to meet

3:28

all these amazing people the same way I do, get

3:31

to get into their heads, hear them

3:33

explain their ideas, hear their stories, a

3:36

little bit of emotion every now and then but

3:38

mostly it's kind of cerebral. I

3:40

said to him at the beginning, listen dude

3:42

I am, I'm nervous to interview

3:45

you because I feel

3:47

like everything I'm going to talk about is going to be

3:49

so boring to you. So

3:51

he immediately put me at ease and

3:53

then last night at this dinner he

3:56

starts off by saying does anyone know a

3:58

really good dirty limerick? And

4:01

I just I was like yes, I do

4:03

know some dirty limericks, so I shall share

4:05

my opening limerick Well it wasn't my opening

4:08

because everybody did one and there

4:10

were about 14 of us at dinner It's amazing how

4:12

resourceful people are when it comes to remembering lyric

4:14

limericks But did most of them start with there

4:16

was a woman from a lot

4:18

of them did yeah I mean you know my favorite

4:20

one is that once was a girl from devices Who

4:23

had tits of two different sizes one

4:26

was quite small almost nothing at all, but the other

4:28

was big in one prizes so

4:32

after they'd all done theirs someone

4:34

said To Pumi and

4:37

and was it kuzwayo who were there don't

4:39

you know it limerick and Zulu and

4:41

they said no no no and I said I do But

4:44

not in not in Zulu, but it's a Zulu Related

4:48

limerick it goes like this

4:50

it was taught to me by my

4:52

one ex-girlfriend's father There

4:55

once was a girl called unati who

4:57

went to a fancy dress pati She

5:00

said to her Reggie you can play around the

5:02

edgy, but I corner fog a little pugger I

5:07

Thought that was quite good. Yeah, I

5:10

mean yeah, so things flowed It was

5:12

very good and after that people relax

5:14

and they start talking and this

5:16

friend of mine has an autistic son So

5:19

does Eric so they bonded on that front

5:21

and talked about AI and all kinds of

5:24

cool stuff And there

5:26

was a little bit of politics Which was nice

5:28

because people wanted to talk politics and quite a

5:30

lot about South Africa And he says and I

5:32

agree with him South Africa is tremendously important I

5:35

mean it it's we have things to teach

5:37

the rest of the world from our own history and

5:39

the way that we've dealt with things and We

5:43

have things to learn and we can

5:45

learn them faster than the rest of the world but

5:47

what I found fascinating is that Eric

5:50

and his wife have just spent two

5:52

weeks on sintillina Which

5:54

is this? Baron Island.

5:56

Well, I thought it was Baron clearly isn't this

5:59

island It's the second most remote

6:01

place on Earth. So

6:04

it will take you longer

6:06

to get there from anywhere than

6:09

it will to get to almost any other

6:11

place from anywhere. So

6:13

I mean, really, it's where they imprisoned

6:16

Napoleon for his final years. He died there

6:18

at Longwood House. But

6:20

Centellina is very,

6:22

very interesting. And I didn't think it would

6:24

be. I thought, like, why are these people

6:27

there? Anyway, they weren't affected by

6:29

COVID at all in Centellina. Oh, right. They

6:31

basically didn't allow any ships to dock. You

6:33

had a quarantine period of two weeks, but

6:35

no one wore masks. They didn't bother. They

6:37

partied all the way through. And

6:40

he said, the fact that

6:42

you South Africans don't know about Centellina, you

6:45

don't travel there, is a disgrace. He

6:47

said, it's amazing. So

6:50

wait, it's a remote... There

6:52

we go. ...over the... There's Leanne. Leanne, the researcher has taken

6:54

over. Go on. A

6:56

volcanic and tropical island. South

7:00

Atlantic Ocean, 1,874 kilometers

7:02

west of mainland Africa. Right.

7:07

Two things you can do to get there. One

7:10

very unpleasant. The other one sometimes

7:13

fraught with danger. So it's

7:15

really locked off from the rest of the world

7:17

in some ways. Long before we have to go

7:19

to Mars, we must go to Centellina, basically. So

7:21

we're obviously either boating or flying there. Right. There's

7:23

only one flight that goes there. I

7:25

think it's once a week from

7:28

Johannesburg. So you have to pass

7:30

through Johannesburg to get there. They

7:32

have an airport which was only built in

7:34

2000. No, 2020. It's

7:38

finished in 2020. Before that,

7:40

there was a mailing ship, a British mailing

7:42

ship. Went

7:44

there every two

7:47

months. What

7:49

does for mail? Yeah. And before

7:51

that was every six months. So if you found

7:53

yourself in Centellina, you were there for six months.

7:56

There was no getting off for another

7:58

six months. I

8:00

mean, fascinating place. So apparently

8:03

the climate there is variable as hell.

8:05

You could literally be in the Scottish

8:08

mountains at some point, and then you

8:10

drive for 10 minutes and you're in

8:13

a tropical rainforest. You drive another

8:15

10 minutes and you're in desert. So

8:17

even though it's small, there's

8:21

a lot that happens there. It's the size of San

8:23

Francisco, I was told. Okay.

8:26

And truly an interesting

8:28

place. Like there's another thing that's interesting about it, which

8:30

I don't want to steal all

8:32

the thunder of the Eric Weinstein interview,

8:34

but he said it's also kind of

8:36

a post identity place because,

8:39

it's ironic talking about

8:42

this after I discussed identity with Zubi,

8:45

because everyone is like coffee colored.

8:48

And no one is uptight

8:50

about slavery because their ancestors were

8:52

slaves, but also the masters. So

8:55

it's all like mixed up and it could be

8:57

a glimpse of what the future looks like. So

9:00

really fascinating place. And therefore,

9:03

I think justifiably something that's now on

9:05

my agenda. Yeah, absolutely. And

9:07

quite a big population, 4,439. I

9:10

thought they were going to be about three people there. Well,

9:13

I think that those ones probably

9:16

all related. Okay. So bringing

9:19

in some fresh genes.

9:23

And the average age there is

9:25

old, like in their 70s, because

9:28

the young people just leave. And

9:31

then they come back when they have lots of money. So

9:35

interesting, right? Fascinating. Okay. So

9:38

that was last night and

9:40

yesterday during the day. Saturday,

9:43

I again dragged this friend

9:45

of mine from America. And then another friend of mine,

9:47

she came up from KZN. And

9:52

they were jamming on Friday night with

9:54

instruments. Now this very clever friend of

9:56

mine can play any instrument.

9:59

Like you put it... he was sitting in

10:01

front of a keyboard and started playing. But properly,

10:04

like a classical pianist.

10:07

Then he picked up a bass guitar, and

10:09

then he was playing the bass while

10:11

doing the drums with his feet. I

10:15

mean, you

10:18

talk about people who are referred

10:20

to as a polymath, or

10:23

the Renaissance man, this guy really

10:25

is like that. Again, I'm

10:27

so lucky that I've got smart friends

10:29

like this. I honestly feel very

10:31

stupid sometimes around them, but I'm in

10:34

wonder. So it doesn't matter to me

10:37

that I'm stupid. I'm so happy

10:39

to be around people who are truly brilliant,

10:42

that I don't mind being the dumbest man in the

10:44

room. In fact, if I'm the dumbest

10:46

man in the room, it's like I like being

10:48

the ugliest person in the room. It means everyone

10:50

else is amazing, right? So then I'm in the

10:53

right room. But also, it's

10:55

nice to have a certain type of dumb, a little bit of

10:57

dumb. It gets you through

11:00

life. You don't think too deeply about things. I

11:04

always found super fit people

11:06

who really train hard and work on their

11:08

bodies and all they're into. Sometimes

11:11

I wished that I had their kind of mindset,

11:13

because you don't think, are these

11:15

calories really burning off? What did I eat yesterday? How am

11:17

I going to do this today? Why is this so?

11:21

They just do. They get up and do. Look,

11:24

I suppose you could argue there's that kind of idea that

11:30

people who are really severely mentally

11:32

impaired, sometimes the happiest people,

11:35

because they're not... Blissful ignorance. No,

11:37

they're not thinking about stressing themselves

11:39

out about everything and worrying about

11:41

tomorrow. Am I doing the

11:43

right thing? Am I successful? Am I a failure? Give

11:48

you a hug when they see you and then they're like, okay.

11:51

It's like my aunt. She had a

11:54

fit when she was younger, a

11:57

little child from whooping cough and they

11:59

lived on the mines. So she didn't get

12:01

to hospitals on time. Right, so

12:03

it's oxygen deprivation. Right, a

12:05

traumatic brain injury basically. She's

12:09

nearly 70 and she's absolutely happy. Death

12:16

doesn't bother her at all. She

12:19

said to me the other day, my budgie was

12:21

lying on the bottom of the bird tray for

12:23

a while last night and I

12:25

thought it's going to die before I wake up and it

12:27

did. It died. I

12:29

said, where is it? And she said, I said, did

12:31

you bury it somewhere? She said, no, I'll

12:33

show you. While she was walking to

12:35

Spa she just tossed it into somebody's ground cover.

12:38

And she was fine. And she got out in check. She

12:40

said, the ants are getting to it now. And

12:43

she moved on. Right? She went

12:45

and got another tooth. Listen, there's something to be said

12:48

for it. So you know, everything is

12:50

a trade-off. And

12:53

this is what I'm, the

12:55

great Thomas Sowell who's probably

12:57

America's foremost economist and

12:59

certainly one of the great intellectuals who is still

13:02

alive. He's in his 90s now. I

13:05

mean, Thomas Sowell, by

13:07

anyone's account, should have been president of the

13:09

United States but he would never have gone

13:11

into politics. Just so clear

13:13

about everything. He always says everything

13:15

in life is a trade-off. There

13:17

are no such things as binary options. If

13:20

you want lots of this, you get a

13:22

little of that. If you want a little of this,

13:24

you get a lot of that and

13:26

so on. So I

13:29

think that that's probably the way to look at

13:31

things. Plus, there's some thoroughly useful

13:34

insights that I kind

13:37

of got from just listening to some

13:40

people over the course of the last two

13:42

or three days. The

13:44

friends who we went to, I've

13:46

spoken sometimes about my friend who is

13:48

a subsistence advocate. So

13:50

he advocates in law

13:54

but only enough to pay his bills. The

13:56

rest of his time he spends gaming and with

13:59

his son. and his wife and

14:02

so he works, he's very good at

14:04

this. He can apportion exactly in his

14:07

head how much advocating he has to

14:09

do and then the rest of the

14:11

time he just fucks around. I

14:13

mean the rest of us would be like well how

14:15

much more money can I make and how much more

14:17

could I do work wise. He's like no that's just

14:19

my way to make money and

14:23

he and his wife are just very

14:25

inspiring people because they have raised

14:27

this extremely bright little child

14:29

and the two of them have a

14:31

room in their house. This is where we were like

14:34

jamming on Friday night. A

14:36

room underneath their house which is like a

14:38

party room. I

14:41

mean like not a sex dungeon. No it's

14:43

a party room. It's like got disco lights

14:45

and music and speakers and instruments

14:47

and like all kinds of cool shit and it's

14:49

always there ready to go. It can also be

14:52

a cinema if that's what you want it to be but

14:54

I mean they're just very odd people and

14:57

again I'm just so lucky that I've got these

14:59

very odd friends in my life who I could

15:01

never spend a minute around any

15:04

of them and go yeah that's enough for a

15:06

couple of weeks. It's

15:08

always exciting to be around them. So

15:10

yeah very very stimulating weekend. If I'm

15:12

a little bit manic today that's why.

15:16

I see Mapadima says here you know I'm

15:18

not so excited about the Wednesday holiday. Yes

15:20

we have a Wednesday holiday because it's during

15:23

the week. Well you'll be excited

15:25

when you finished a long day on Tuesday

15:27

and you're like I can

15:30

take tomorrow off and do nothing. Did

15:33

you do anything to to

15:35

mark freedom day on

15:38

Saturday? No in fact I

15:41

forgot about it until the news started coming

15:43

in and the news clips and what Sura

15:46

Ramaphosa had said and obviously everything's completely politically

15:49

laced and politically charged at the moment. So

15:51

you listened to what Sura Ramaphosa said? No

15:53

I mean I just saw. I don't know

15:55

anyone who listened to him. No I didn't.

15:58

Certainly not. on an

16:00

otherwise great weekend, right? I just sort

16:02

of typed out

16:05

little bits of what he'd been saying, and

16:07

I was really disinterested. But that's only when

16:09

I realized that it was actually Freedom Day.

16:12

Something wrong with us not benefiting from

16:14

a Saturday public holiday. Yeah, it feels

16:17

like you've been cheated a little bit, right? Because

16:20

normally a public holiday, even for the people

16:22

who don't give a damn about the historical

16:24

significance of what you're trying to do on

16:26

that day, and what it means. Even

16:28

them, they're like, well, if we get the public

16:31

holiday, then we'll maybe

16:33

spend a minute thinking about it. And

16:35

that's a lot for government to ask you to spend a whole

16:37

minute of your day. But they could

16:39

have at least given us the day. You know, Friday,

16:41

as you say, that would have been nice. I

16:46

did notice, and it's worth remarking

16:48

just for a second, about the

16:50

actual relevance of Freedom

16:52

Day, and 30 years after that hell

16:55

of an important day, where I

16:57

remember I was in high school, and

16:59

I remember the queues

17:02

and this enormous,

17:05

meaningful, important activity

17:08

that everyone took part in. Everyone

17:10

who could vote. I was too young to vote. And

17:14

I remember what a big deal it was for people

17:16

on that day. And then I think,

17:18

you know, there are people growing up now who

17:21

just couldn't be bothered to vote. So, apathetic.

17:23

I'm like, okay, we've discussed this.

17:25

I'm not going to gild the lily now and go

17:27

over it again. I had a rant last week about

17:30

how they should all just be, like, shipped off

17:32

to Antarctica or something. Because they're

17:34

just ungrateful, and you think about the sacrifices.

17:37

And I saw last night at our dinner,

17:40

one of Mediba's granddaughters, who...

17:45

And we talked about this a little bit. Because

17:48

we are so quick to just move

17:50

on. And

17:53

now we find new things to bitch

17:55

about, right? So it's the electricity, and

17:57

it's the water, and it's... how

18:00

bad our education system is, and how

18:02

little progress we've made here or there

18:04

or anywhere else. And I'm

18:06

certainly not doing an ANC good

18:08

story to tell. By the

18:11

way, we've got Panyaza Le Sufi in

18:13

on Thursday to represent the ANC

18:15

and our long litany of political

18:17

parties would get to that with Pumilay to

18:19

this week. But I

18:22

do think it's worth taking stock. Like

18:24

we really have an extraordinary

18:27

story in this country. And

18:30

it's just because we have short memories and

18:34

we are now so entitled

18:37

as a nation, I'm not saying as individuals, it

18:40

feels to me like we've just got to take a deep breath

18:43

and look at how far we've come, realize

18:46

that we are not the shittest place on

18:48

earth because some people really believe

18:50

this is the shittiest place on earth. And

18:53

I think it is an extremely difficult place to

18:55

live if you have no money. I

18:58

think it is one of the toughest places in

19:01

not just the world as it is

19:03

right now, but in time to live.

19:06

Because there's this added

19:10

ugliness which we've never had to deal with

19:12

before where you may be

19:14

poor and you may not have anything,

19:17

but now you get to see what you're

19:19

missing out on, which

19:21

is cruel, right? So I think that's something we

19:23

don't take any stock of. I

19:26

think it can be tremendous happiness in

19:29

poverty if you don't know that you're poor.

19:32

I mean, like there was a stage when I

19:35

was a kid where we didn't have a whole lot, but

19:37

I could roam freely and I

19:41

could build swings in trees. And

19:44

I didn't feel hard done by just

19:46

because we didn't have material wealth. But

19:49

I think it's much harder when you're seeing, yachts

19:53

and planes and holidays and celebrities

19:55

and all this nonsense on your

19:57

phone all the time. And

19:59

that's... your feed and you're living

20:02

in squalor. I think that's extra hard. Yeah.

20:05

But we're not the worst place. There are

20:07

many, many worst places. That's not to say

20:09

that we aren't good either. There are some

20:11

things that we do extremely well. I

20:14

think we deserve a little bit of

20:16

credit for that. Thirty years after democracy

20:19

first came in a real way to this

20:21

country, take a moment

20:23

to just have a little bit of joy.

20:28

Pride. A little bit of pride. Yeah.

20:30

And I'm not a nationalist. You know

20:32

this. I'm probably not even a patriot

20:34

anymore. That's saying something

20:36

because I used to be. I

20:40

still can find it in me to

20:42

be proud of this place and to

20:45

celebrate the things that we do well. I

20:48

think it's worth just a little reflection. No,

20:50

100%. Don't want to go too far down

20:52

that road, but there we are. And

20:55

you say your weekend is just nothing. No

20:59

pressure. Yeah. I'm

21:02

really battling to get the work-life balance

21:04

thing right. Seven

21:07

months into a new job and

21:09

still going full steam ahead. You

21:12

know what I think you need? I want to

21:14

organize you a workplace romance. I

21:19

don't know if I can handle anything more. Come

21:21

on, Leanne. Imagine getting to the office

21:23

every day. And

21:26

there's some guy you're really into.

21:29

Come on. No? I

21:31

don't know if I want the extra stuff. All right.

21:33

Well, I tried. She's definitely

21:36

devoid of feelings. She's given up.

21:39

She's shut down the shop. No, I promise

21:41

I have not. She's decided it's all closed.

21:43

Cobwebs. I promise. In fact, I sat down

21:46

with my brother about two weeks ago. And

21:49

I said to him, I think

21:51

I might be ready to start.

21:53

Look at maybe dating. Oh,

21:55

this is a development. Yeah. Tell me

21:58

more. I just feel like. as

22:00

things of, you know, almost like

22:03

Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I've got the basics sorted

22:05

out now that I was just kind of trading

22:08

water before. And those things

22:10

are now sorted out and you naturally start moving

22:12

on to the next need, the

22:14

next tier of the pyramid. And

22:18

yeah, I was actually also talking

22:20

to my cousin two days ago. She,

22:23

like me, has been single for the

22:25

last few years. And

22:28

we were remembering that in China, you have

22:31

that service where you can hire someone just

22:33

to cuddle with. Right. Nothing

22:37

more is required or expected.

22:39

And she was at first she said, oh,

22:41

gross. And then

22:43

I said, No, imagine someone saying to you, like, how was

22:45

your day? You know, what have you been up to?

22:49

You look great today. You know, what

22:51

are your plans for tomorrow? Because you do

22:53

you end up missing out on those things

22:55

a little bit. Oh, well, don't worry. We've

22:57

got the audience to fill that gap for

22:59

us. Listen to what Zach says. Gareth, my

23:02

nine year old grew up with me watching

23:04

the Gareth Cliff show and now just ask

23:06

Daddy, why is the man looking old now?

23:11

Fuck. Do

23:13

they see what we don't because she said the same with

23:15

me in the past few weeks. Zach, just

23:17

tell your tell your nine year old to shut the fuck up.

23:19

All right. Mind her own

23:21

fucking business. Yeah,

23:24

but it's good. She needs to learn that that's what

23:26

happens. That's life. Leanne is beautiful,

23:28

by the way, says my fellow and very funny

23:31

as well. Oh, so

23:33

you get a compliment. That's nice. Ricky

23:35

says I've been in Australia for almost two years now.

23:38

One thing I can say is the South African people

23:40

and culture, the patriotism unmatched. Those

23:42

are the things that I miss every

23:44

day. Hmm. Okay. Yeah, there's

23:46

something entirely unique about South Africa that you

23:48

can't find anywhere else. This is a

23:52

shared experience. Yeah.

23:54

And so, so yeah, my friend

23:56

Charles said what we he's been

23:58

doing some work here. for one

24:00

of the big corporations. And he

24:02

said, this is a

24:05

much more evolved and

24:08

friendly place when it comes to

24:10

diversity and people

24:12

actually meeting each other as

24:15

human beings and exchanging greetings.

24:17

He said, he walked into a

24:20

boardroom last week. And again, sometimes

24:22

it's good to have a fresh

24:24

perspective from someone who doesn't live here. This

24:28

is where I say we're not the shittest place, right? He

24:30

said, in America,

24:32

there's such tension now around

24:34

race, culture, language,

24:38

ethnicity, immigration, patriotism,

24:41

the constitution, politics.

24:45

If you're a Trump supporter, you can't sit at

24:48

a table with a Biden supporter. And he said

24:50

here, he went into a boardroom this week, last

24:52

week, and he said, people

24:54

hug each other, they greet, they

24:56

know each other's names, they know each other's kids'

24:59

names, they talk like

25:01

old friends. And he said,

25:03

that just does not happen in America right now.

25:06

And he's like American now, he's not

25:09

South African anymore. And

25:11

I thought that was a really cool observation. But

25:13

to go back to your thing about someone

25:17

to sleep next to or

25:19

to ask how your day was. Someone just

25:21

to acknowledge your presence every now and then.

25:23

Well, yeah, you know how I

25:25

feel like. My favorite thing

25:27

is to be on my, I do

25:29

not want to wake up in the morning and

25:31

there's someone else in the bed with me. But

25:35

I have said that if I could find

25:37

someone who was able to just put me

25:39

to sleep every night with a back tickle,

25:42

I would be totally happy. I'd

25:44

find out for that for life. And then after

25:47

I fall into sleep, they must disappear and I mustn't

25:49

see them again. Until the next back

25:51

tickle is required. Get out of my life,

25:53

right? So yeah, I

25:56

think that's the way to go. Yeah. I'd

25:58

rather be in South Africa than all the. war-stricken countries

26:01

says Snipes. I mean

26:03

Biden closed Vastis for year in the

26:05

US because of Israel, Palestine. No one

26:07

mentions Sudan besides Al Jazeera and

26:09

JJ Cornish. Yeah, you

26:12

make a good point Snipes. Listen, if

26:15

you look at the world there are always going to

26:17

be worse places. I watched a brilliant bit

26:20

of a documentary. I didn't watch the whole thing

26:22

because I think it's in like four episodes. Do

26:25

you know Michael Palin from Monty

26:27

Python? So he does

26:29

a travel show. He

26:31

doesn't do comedy at all anymore. And

26:33

I saw an interview with John Cleese also of Monty

26:36

Python the other day who said, oh

26:38

I was watching Michael Palin's dreary

26:40

and boring travel show the other

26:42

day. He's very disparaging about it,

26:44

which I love. But

26:47

I thought that this was a great show

26:49

because he went to Iraq. Okay,

26:53

no, we're not all eagerly packing up to go. I

26:56

would now that would interest me because

26:58

it's ancient Mesopotamia, right? You

27:00

could also go and see like Uday

27:02

and Kusey Hussein's palace that

27:05

they lived in Saddam's children, right?

27:10

I found this just remarkable.

27:13

So Michael Palin,

27:15

first of all to get into Iraq pretty much

27:17

from anywhere. I was going to say how do

27:19

you even do it? Tough work. And

27:21

then he goes to Mosul

27:26

where there was huge fighting and ISIS

27:28

were only kind of stamped out there

27:30

in 2013-14. It's

27:34

not that long ago. And the

27:37

buildings are all burnt out and bombed

27:40

out and there's more rubble than there is buildings.

27:43

Yeah. I mean it's hard to tell

27:45

what the fresh rubble and what the old rubble is, but

27:49

what a place. I mean

27:51

there's history that's just eons

27:55

deep and the people

27:58

are resilient. There

28:01

are cafes on the banks

28:03

of the Tigris River, which he

28:05

visited, where people

28:07

are sitting there with hubblies,

28:09

hooker pipes, smoking,

28:11

obviously a drink. It's a very,

28:14

very strict Muslim country even now.

28:17

You know, they had ISIS for heaven's sake, who

28:19

enforced in that particular part of Kurdistan

28:22

a very, very intolerant

28:24

and orthodox

28:28

regime. But

28:30

these people are living their lives. He went

28:32

to a tailor. He went

28:34

to a tailor's shop in

28:37

Erbil, called

28:39

Mr. Erbil. You can look it up on

28:41

the internet. He had a jacket made, but

28:44

like a really beautifully

28:47

made English tailor

28:50

level Savile Road jacket.

28:54

I marvel at the fact that there are people who,

28:57

in a place that has up to

28:59

just a couple of weeks

29:01

ago, really, in

29:04

the span of time, it feels like just

29:06

a little while ago, because we all grew up

29:08

with kind of Iraq in the background. And

29:11

he interviews this woman about

29:13

growing up during that time. And

29:16

she talks about the Kurdish

29:19

ethnic cleansing that Saddam Hussein did.

29:23

And then he attends this nauruz,

29:25

which is like New Year in

29:27

Kurdistan. And they all go

29:29

up onto the hills with torches and

29:34

fireworks. And you think,

29:36

hell, if Iraq, if

29:39

the people in northern Iraq can

29:41

get their shit together to the degree

29:44

that they feel a nationhood

29:47

and that people can make a living for themselves,

29:50

they can do cool things, they

29:52

can live their lives, they can have tailor shops or

29:54

whatever else it is, power

29:56

to them, man. Clearly no PTSD there with

29:59

the fireworks. Yeah, I

30:01

mean that's I was just blown away.

30:04

I think what a phenomenal story. Yeah again

30:07

Tracy agrees with me. She saw it too. Michael

30:09

Palin's show in Iraq was incredible that tragedy

30:11

He told of the slaughter

30:13

along the river with heartbreaking. Yeah. Well,

30:15

this is where Saddam Hussein actually Murdered

30:18

a bunch of Kurds

30:21

and you know, there's the old adage. It's

30:23

not very funny But it's poetic that Saddam

30:25

had Kurds in his way and

30:30

you know, it was well known that despite the

30:32

fact that America may have

30:36

Embellished the idea of weapons of mass destruction

30:38

You remember Colin Powell going up in front

30:40

of the UN and talking about chemical and

30:42

biological weapons and this is why we've got

30:44

to take on Saddam Turns

30:46

out that probably wasn't true

30:49

and that's not a controversial thing to say but

30:52

nonetheless he was a

30:54

genocidal maniac and If

30:56

you go on the internet, you can find

30:58

something really interesting. I

31:00

will find a video which

31:03

is like a Documentary

31:06

on the exact moment

31:10

That Saddam seized power you

31:12

can watch a video of him sitting

31:15

in Parliament with the Baathist

31:17

party his party and the

31:20

exact moment he becomes a dictator is the

31:22

moment that he After

31:25

making a speech about nationalism and all the rest

31:29

He does this thing where he points to

31:32

some guy in the crowd and he says

31:34

you did

31:36

this did that stole this stole that and

31:40

Soldiers come in and they

31:42

frog much this poor asshole Outside

31:45

and then he points to another guy and

31:48

they come and get him And he

31:50

points to a couple and now like the

31:52

room is thinning out and the people in

31:54

it are getting ever more kind of uncomfortable

31:56

and shifting in their chairs and suddenly someone

31:58

stands up and goes Saddam Hussein is

32:00

the sun and the moon and the light of

32:03

Iraq. Thank God for him. And then another guy,

32:05

because he's now all the Central Committee members, who

32:07

know that they could be on that list too,

32:09

right? They have to pledge their allegiance. At

32:12

that moment, they all become

32:14

his servants and he becomes the leader.

32:17

And there's no turning back. And they all suddenly

32:19

realize what's happened. There's no

32:22

room for dissent anymore. And then, to

32:24

seal the deal, and the part that

32:26

you won't find any footage of, is

32:29

he sends the people that remain, who

32:31

are now devoted to him,

32:33

obviously, in fear of their lives. But

32:36

just to make sure they don't change their mind, he

32:39

sends them out, they must

32:41

take a gun and shoot the bad

32:43

guys he's already put out there. So the

32:45

ones who were accused are standing outside against

32:47

the wall. And the ones who

32:49

made it through without having to be accused must

32:52

now shoot them. So he involves them in the plot.

32:55

Now there's no turning back. Goodness

32:58

me. Hell of a story, huh? Gives me

33:00

goosebumps when I think about it. Anyway, that's

33:02

enough of the heavy stuff for this morning.

33:05

Look who's here. It's James. Mora. From

33:07

the sublime to the ridiculous. All

33:10

right, so James, we had quite

33:12

a lot of sport over the weekend. I would be

33:14

lying to you if I said I paid any attention

33:16

to any of it, so update me. I will do

33:18

just that, as usual. And

33:20

listen, can we get rid of this terrible Zagaris Cliff

33:22

show that's all bright behind me? It is on the

33:25

cards. Thank you. It's on the cards. Thank God. It

33:28

looks terrible. You don't like your name in big

33:30

flames? No. I mean, why would anyone

33:32

be here if they had no idea who I

33:34

was? That's fair. And I think we can just

33:36

have it a little more elegant, right? Let's work

33:38

on that. That'll be

33:40

on the list for today. Back to the sport.

33:42

I got you. So we'll start with the football,

33:45

as usual. I feel like every

33:47

time I'm coming here, it's getting a lot worse for

33:49

Liverpool Football Club. Is that bad news for you? It

33:52

is bad news for me. You

33:54

could officially say that. Did you cry? A little bit.

33:56

Quite a lot, actually. I'm glad. Okay,

33:59

go ahead. You could officially say we're

34:01

out of the title race as of

34:03

this weekend. We drew two to two

34:05

West Ham Chelsea

34:08

beat us number that Chelsea drew

34:10

testimony to to Arsenal beats Spurs

34:12

3-2 What all

34:14

of that means is that? Arsenal

34:16

are now top of the log by one

34:18

point city behind them by another

34:20

point And Liverpool have fallen

34:23

behind by like five. So we're officially out

34:25

of it It's not looking

34:27

good for us and the potential new

34:29

winners of the Premier League could be

34:31

Arsenal or Manchester City So

34:33

that'll be interesting. Hopefully not Arsenal because that

34:36

would be quite unbearable Sticking

34:39

with the the football sundowns are

34:42

out of the calf Champions League.

34:44

They lost one note to Esperance,

34:46

Tunis Tough

34:48

luck for them moving on to the

34:51

rugby the URC as expected the Bulls

34:53

bounced back in a big way Threshing

34:55

ospreys. Yes, Ben predicted this. Yeah, and

34:58

of course this little sports update is brought to

35:00

you by SuperBets And why I refer to them

35:02

now is because Ben said if you take a

35:05

little Gamble on them you

35:07

could do quite well. He was right. Yeah, you

35:09

said they were gonna come back strong and they

35:11

did 61 24 was down

35:13

all on they are pretty pretty big The

35:17

Stormers were also equally impressive

35:19

in dispatching of L'Enster But

35:22

the Lions the Lions lost out

35:24

against Munster 1333 Lents

35:28

are getting zero points from their last two

35:30

games Glasgow is now top of the URC

35:33

Wow log and then

35:35

lastly in the MotoGP was the

35:38

Spanish MotoGP Hang on before we

35:40

move on JP wants to know

35:42

James what happened between Salah and

35:44

Klopp? Paradise. Yeah,

35:46

no, that's a good question. So I

35:50

Actually have no idea they haven't released the

35:52

mic audio as far as I'm aware But

35:54

basically what's happened to give you guys context

35:56

is not that UK go but

35:59

most was coming off the bench for Liverpool.

36:01

There was a bit of a back and forth. I

36:03

thought there were names of donkeys. Sorry. Carry

36:06

on. No, one's the

36:08

coach, one is the player. One of them

36:10

is the star player actually. They had a

36:12

bit of a back and forth on the

36:14

side of the field. Oh, so there was

36:16

an argument, a visible bit of- Altication. Okay,

36:18

right. Yeah, I'm not happy. A bit of

36:20

RG, RG on the sidelines. Okay. And what

36:22

makes it worse is sellers like the star

36:24

man for Liverpool and you don't want to

36:26

see the star man and the coach having

36:28

a go at each other. So I'm

36:30

not sure just yet, JP. I don't know

36:33

if the audio has been released because they

36:35

do have touchline mics these days. So I'm

36:37

not sure. Hopefully not too bad, but it looked

36:39

bad. It looked pretty bad. Clop is out the

36:41

door at the end of the season anyway. And

36:45

judging by this weekend, probably seller

36:47

is also bad

36:50

for us for Liverpool every time I come into the set.

36:53

Lastly, MotoGP, Spanish MotoGP

36:55

this weekend, Brad Binder,

36:59

finished in sixth, Francesca

37:01

Bagnai, won. He came

37:03

first with Bastiany coming in. And

37:05

that is

37:08

the sport. My pal says, James,

37:10

can you start with South African games for

37:12

once in your reporting? I will. I

37:14

will next week. I promise. Well, I can tell you

37:16

that Super Sport United played, I think it was

37:18

kind of the chief's and lost two no,

37:21

two one that I

37:23

knew. I found somebody in my office,

37:27

Jane Z. Who

37:31

when I mentioned Super Sport United, because one

37:33

of the brands I worked for sponsors them, she

37:37

said, I honestly thought they were

37:39

just two vertical soccer teams. I

37:41

thought they were Kaiser Chiefs and Orlando Pirates.

37:44

So I said, did you think that they were playing each other

37:46

all along? Just them. Didn't

37:50

even know about Sundance. And

37:52

then later on, she said, but I think there was a third. Look,

37:55

there are a few. All right. There's a couple. Yeah,

37:57

yeah. There's a couple of leagues too. Okay,

38:00

well somebody says here Sanel says Gareth

38:02

took some pointers from Saddam. He's dictated

38:05

to James this morning Yeah, watch the

38:07

hell out, right? Fall

38:10

into line I do agree with had

38:13

mean that my my logo here behind

38:15

us looks like a 90s nightclub sign

38:17

See not just me who feels that way

38:19

look quite clean. Well, I will change

38:21

lesson. We got so much to still do considering

38:25

You know last week was our first ever

38:27

green screen show We still we

38:30

still haven't even Scratched the surface and

38:32

the other stuff that we can do which I'm

38:34

excited to show you but we're not going to

38:36

rush things We're gonna settle in and make it

38:38

work and for many people who are

38:40

listening on audio only none of this matters The

38:43

people who are listening to us

38:45

on Spotify Apple podcasts Google podcasts

38:48

wherever That's cool. You

38:51

just you just stick with us. Can I can I

38:53

just say though that if you are still on the

38:55

audio version I think the video

38:57

version Is about to get

38:59

a whole lot better. Well, it's probably a good time for

39:01

you to switch over. Yeah Yeah, anyway,

39:04

let us have your feedback because we do want to know

39:06

what you think about it And if you

39:08

have any suggestions tell us about that, too I'll just ignore

39:10

them, but James might take them. Yes All right

39:13

And don't forget that we do sport every Friday

39:15

with Ben and then we check in on those

39:17

results on a Monday With

39:19

James and super bets are the

39:21

people who make that possible. They

39:23

support responsible gambling Leanne Strictly

39:26

now under 18 when is no

39:28

when to stop the South African responsible

39:30

gambling foundations toll-free counseling hotline is 0

39:32

800 double Oh six

39:34

double. Oh eight Thank

39:36

you James Very good. We've

39:39

got dr. Hannon joining us shortly. It'll be the

39:41

first time we have him on the show Ah,

39:43

make sure that we can hear him there James

39:47

Please and Don't

39:49

screw it up. It's very important for us. All right, very

39:52

very good And then here's

39:54

a little update from JP says after that

39:56

game in question Sullawalk past reporters and said

39:59

if I speak, there will be fire.

40:01

So that's how we know there's some, you

40:04

see now suddenly I'm interested. Yeah.

40:06

Do you like a bit of a, I love a

40:08

bit of a conflict. Yeah.

40:11

Yeah. How long

40:13

until smell-o-vision? I

40:16

don't know if I ever want TV with smell. Oh,

40:20

that sort of smell. Oh, no, thank you.

40:22

No, that's not something I'm interested in.

40:24

Let's leave it. Okay.

40:26

And it's just a cooking show or something. Even.

40:30

I know. That's not your package. Because that

40:32

would drive me crazy. I don't

40:34

understand why anyone would watch a cooking

40:37

show. I did not say it

40:39

cooking show. I wish I hadn't brought

40:41

Diamond around. Oh my God. I know. Because

40:43

what's the point? If you can't

40:45

eat the stuff, I don't see the point of watching

40:47

other people make stuff that you're never going to eat.

40:50

Who cares? What you say, you think you're going

40:53

to get into your kitchen straight afterwards? Because who's

40:55

that baking woman? Who?

40:57

Nigella maybe? I don't know.

41:00

Some puts for all who makes

41:03

stuff in a kitchen. I don't know stuff

41:05

that I'm totally disinterested in. The

41:08

stuff rises in the I don't

41:10

know bread or cake or who the hell knows

41:12

the difference. Anyway, that's what rises

41:14

in this woman. And then she cooks the stuff she

41:16

gets. Oh, smells so wonderful. And

41:18

I'm like, for you. But

41:21

I don't want to smell it if I

41:23

can't eat it until they deliver the cake

41:26

to my house. Right after that puts

41:28

for all who made it. I'm

41:30

not interested. Eating

41:35

is a singularly real world

41:37

experience. There is no virtual world equivalent.

41:39

And I don't think there ever will

41:41

be no matter how many you could

41:43

plug a hundred things into people. It's

41:46

not going to work. And you know, smell

41:48

is way more complicated than taste. Taste

41:51

is informed by smell. Yes. Like

41:53

taste is downstream from smell. So

41:55

only if you can smell certain things can

41:58

you taste them. All

42:00

right, there's my rant. I'm thinking of the

42:02

horrible things as well. And you mentioned downstream.

42:05

Oh, absolutely. You

42:07

know, eventually there's going to be really bad

42:10

things that people are going to just

42:12

suddenly... Imagine watching that

42:14

Dharma series with Jeffrey Dharma when

42:17

the police walked in and opened up the barrels

42:19

in his bedroom. There's

42:22

some really bad things that could happen. You

42:25

should watch it. It's a show

42:27

called Is It Cake? Yes, there

42:29

is that. Where

42:32

it looks like a glass or a cell phone

42:34

or a laptop. And you've

42:36

got a cake. If it's cake or not,

42:38

it's so hyper-realistic. Okay. That's

42:41

artistic. I

42:43

mean, it requires an enormous amount of...

42:47

Huge skill. Yeah. Talent

42:49

skill, the ability to fool people. It's

42:53

like a Pomp-L'Oy art where you think

42:55

something is 3D, but it isn't. It's

42:58

almost like that. Gee, my

43:00

niece says you're an

43:02

obol-lol. Okay,

43:04

I'm not sure I understand that. You're

43:07

a niece, like, also, like, a

43:10

bit of a slow adult. I'm not... Almost

43:13

every day the first person I see is Gareth from

43:15

my bed. Very creepy, says my pillow. Oh,

43:17

wow. Well, you know what? It's your choice,

43:19

you know? Yeah, yeah. Welcome.

43:22

Welcome to my world. Gordon Ramsay

43:24

is entertaining, says somebody. Naked goose.

43:27

Yeah, he is. Yeah, I

43:30

like him. I think he'd be fun

43:32

to spend time with, Givin. He's very

43:35

rude. I hardly watch him cook anymore.

43:37

I see him more in sort of...

43:40

Shouting. No,

43:42

he's got this show where he

43:44

trains people within the food

43:46

and drink or beverage industry. He doesn't need to

43:48

go into restaurants and then help them run them

43:50

better. That's also old. Oh. So

43:53

now he's got his own thing where he puts

43:55

everything behind one person who wins out of, say,

43:58

10, who are... marketing

44:00

some kind of new beverage that they've

44:02

developed or you know it's like

44:05

a business show. Where's Dr.

44:07

Hannon? I

44:09

mean really you come in here do

44:11

the sports results and then we what

44:14

must we do tit about for the next hour

44:16

while you you're meant to get Dr. Hannon on.

44:19

There he is I can see him I'll add him here

44:21

we go. Hey doc. Hey

44:23

guys. What's happening? Love

44:26

the background. Congrats. I

44:29

get you must come in one morning. Definitely.

44:31

I'm in. I'm just spending some time with you in here.

44:34

Love that. Alright so what are we talking about

44:36

today? Let's have a look because we always get

44:38

emails from people who have all kinds of issues

44:40

in their lives. Of course Dr.

44:42

Hannon is our living psychologist.

44:45

He's our shrink. We get on the on

44:47

the sofa with him once a week and he helps us

44:49

iron out our problems. So here's a

44:51

question for you on email doc. I've

44:54

been through a breakup and during this time I

44:56

moved back with my parents my

44:58

ex and I have started talking again and we

45:00

want to give our relationship a second chance. Only

45:03

problem is my family and friends might not approve

45:05

of this because during our time apart I did

45:07

the stupid thing of venting and

45:09

crying about my ex with them.

45:12

What can I do to make them feel

45:14

at ease about our decision and coping with the

45:16

aftermath of them not approving of us getting back

45:18

together? Oh now you don't

45:20

actually have to just convince yourself and your

45:22

partner and now you've got to convince everyone

45:24

else that things have changed. Well I mean

45:26

this is such a disaster. It's like when

45:28

you know when people break up and

45:31

you take aside and then they

45:33

end up getting back together. I know

45:36

yeah it's very common then you pick

45:38

a side and your friends

45:40

thought bad mouthing him as well and they say

45:43

well you should have been with him he was

45:45

an asshole to begin with and so

45:47

glad that you've broken up and they pile on

45:49

the argument of why the breakup is so

45:51

good and then you end up doing

45:53

the the U-turn method and you get

45:56

back together and now you have to

45:58

explain why you were wrong. in

46:01

terms of your assessments of the relationship. So

46:03

it's all too common and I hear this

46:05

quite often. And I think lesson number one

46:07

is don't talk bad about pretty much anybody.

46:09

I mean, don't waste your time bad-marthing

46:12

anybody because you don't know how that might come

46:14

back and bite you. But

46:17

number two, I always say people are, human

46:19

beings are incredible at adapting.

46:22

We're terrible at predicting, but

46:24

we are amazing at adapting. So if

46:26

the question is how do I get my friends

46:29

to accept my new relationship with this

46:32

new person, first of all, I would say

46:34

to you, the person that

46:36

got back together, make sure you're getting back for

46:38

the right reasons. That wasn't the

46:40

question, but make sure you're getting back together

46:43

for the right reason, not because you're lonely

46:45

and not because you miss him and not

46:47

because your feelings tell you to go

46:49

right back. We know what we all feel

46:51

about feelings. Make sure you're getting

46:54

back in the relationship because it's the right relationship. Make

46:56

sure you're getting back into the relationship because the things

46:58

that you've broken up or the reasons why

47:00

you've broken up in the first place are no longer there

47:02

and they're resolved and you've developed

47:05

and you've improved in the relationship

47:07

and so is your partner. But assuming

47:09

you're getting back into the relationship for the

47:12

right reason, just get back

47:14

into and explain to your closest friends of

47:16

why things are different, but your friends

47:18

will adapt. As long as they see your

47:20

relationship improving and being better and you being

47:23

treated in a way that you deserve to

47:25

be treated, I have no doubt that

47:27

your friends will adapt. I'll make excuses, explain,

47:30

but just get back into the relationship and

47:32

share your friends through experience of why this

47:34

relationship is right. So

47:37

the two things here, the first one is that I'm

47:40

really happy if any of my friends are in

47:42

a happy relationship and however

47:44

that person makes them happy, I

47:46

forgive whatever misgivings I might

47:49

have about them. I think that's probably the healthy

47:51

approach for the friends. But

47:53

there's another thing is this

47:55

constant oversharing and I kind of

47:57

blame TV talk shows in

47:59

the... 90s and 2000s. I

48:01

blame social media that everybody feels they

48:04

need to just share everything. How

48:06

about you shut up and keep it to yourself until

48:08

you've figured out what the hell you want to do.

48:11

Before you go and make everybody else aware of

48:13

how you're having issues with your girlfriend or your

48:15

wife, this by the way is one of the

48:17

reasons I don't play golf. I

48:19

don't want to hear the other guys moaning

48:21

about their wives. I first of all find

48:23

it very, very boring. I also

48:26

find it disloyal. I'm like

48:28

you keep that to yourself until you

48:30

and she have ironed out some of

48:32

your petty differences. And then

48:35

come and play golf or have fun with

48:37

the rest of your mates without your baggage.

48:39

This is not an appointment with

48:41

Dr. Henan. Am I right? Gareth,

48:44

you are right. I actually think a lot

48:47

of people share because they want to seem

48:49

a part of the group. They want a sense

48:51

of acknowledgement and a sense of belonging. I think

48:53

it's cool. But I want to

48:56

tell everybody whenever you speak badly about somebody

48:58

in your inner circle or

49:00

when you speak badly about somebody that

49:02

you've left, it sounds ugly. It's just

49:04

ugly on you. It

49:07

doesn't sound pretty. I completely

49:09

agree with you. It's disloyal

49:11

and completely disrespectful. And if

49:13

anything, it doesn't discredit them. It devalues

49:15

you. It discredits you. It makes

49:18

you look ugly and cheap. So

49:20

don't talk badly about anybody because

49:23

first of all, there's no real value

49:25

in that for you. And secondly, nobody

49:27

really cares. And thirdly, it

49:30

might come back to backfire on

49:32

you, especially when you make a

49:34

U-turn and reverse your decision and

49:37

go back to that relationship. Imagine,

49:40

to your point, imagine going

49:42

out to play golf and you speak so

49:45

badly about your wife and why your wife is

49:47

this and why your wife is that. And then

49:49

you go out for dinner with your wife and

49:51

you're all huggie and holding hands. How

49:53

disingenuous does it look when you've just

49:55

spoken so badly about your partner at

49:57

home and then suddenly you're lovey-dovey in

49:59

person. It makes you look

50:02

like a person. I love the

50:04

way some fat, average-looking, uninteresting

50:06

guy on a golf course

50:09

is busy giving the one woman

50:11

in the world who would condescend to love

50:14

him shit. How

50:16

dare that guy? First

50:18

of all, I'm not friends with any people like

50:20

that, but if I were, I'd really question my

50:22

own sanity. Who does this guy think he is?

50:25

He Brad Pitts, his big

50:28

bookends, and his desire to drink 23 beers in the

50:30

afternoon because he

50:35

thinks he's unhappy. What is that? I

50:39

always say if you want

50:41

a true personality test,

50:44

don't go online. Don't

50:46

go do the psychometric test. If you truly

50:48

want to know what you

50:50

are and who you are, just

50:52

look at the people that you hang around with.

50:55

They are your true mirror of who you are.

50:57

If you hang around those people that

50:59

are speaking badly about their

51:02

loved ones at home, whether it's

51:04

their partners or even business partners

51:06

or their colleagues, then that's the

51:08

person that you are as well. Ask

51:11

yourself, do I really want to hang around

51:13

with those kind of individuals that are disloyal?

51:15

Again, it doesn't make the people that you

51:18

talk about look ugly. It makes you look

51:20

completely deep. One

51:24

quick follow-up to this. Is

51:26

it okay that a couple of weeks ago, I and

51:30

three of my very good friends,

51:33

I forced them to

51:36

say an obituary to me in

51:38

advance? This

51:40

sounds a bit odd, but give me a moment to explain.

51:43

When you're dead, you don't really have the

51:45

ability to hear what people might say about

51:48

you. Maybe we'd been drinking a bit.

51:51

I felt like it was the appropriate time to make

51:53

them work a bit. I'm like, you

51:55

know, let's earn each other's friendships again because

51:57

sometimes you just take it all for granted.

52:00

I said to them, all right, everyone here,

52:02

because we all like each other, there are only four

52:04

of us at that point. I'm like,

52:06

you all have to say what you would say if

52:09

we were dead right now. And

52:11

let's just, let's see how good you

52:13

are at this. Also there would be

52:15

maybe one or two surprise and quite

52:18

poetic insights. Yeah. Well, I mean,

52:20

there've been people who have faked their own deaths in order

52:22

to find out. Well, I didn't want to

52:24

do that. That sounds like a lot of work. I

52:27

also involved myself in it by saying something

52:29

about each of them too. I

52:32

found it to be a very, very cool

52:34

exercise. Now I'm not saying that this is

52:36

something everybody should do because maybe some people

52:38

are a bit emotional and they wouldn't

52:40

handle it. And it's also kind of a devastating

52:42

thing for your friends to say, right, what would

52:44

you say if I was dead? Yeah. But

52:47

it actually turned out to be a fascinating exercise.

52:50

Would you recommend this to other people? And do you think

52:52

I did the right thing? I

52:55

think it's really interesting on a couple

52:57

of friends. One, when you ask your

52:59

friends to do that, you're

53:01

basically asking for honesty, but let's

53:05

call it covered with kindness. Because

53:07

when you're when you've passed, obviously people are going to

53:09

be very kind about you, but

53:16

they're going to be honest about the things that you've

53:18

done really well and how you've impacted their lives. I

53:21

think it's a very

53:24

therapeutic way of not only seeing what

53:26

your friends would say about you in

53:28

kind of when you're not around, but

53:30

also you facing your own mortality

53:33

and acknowledging one day this will

53:35

happen. And maybe those friends are

53:37

not going to be there, but somebody is going

53:40

to say something about you. And there's something very

53:42

therapeutic about acknowledging that the last doesn't go on

53:44

forever. At some point, the last

53:46

will be switched off, which allows you

53:48

then to live your life to the fullest,

53:50

understanding that we all on a

53:52

time scale, on a

53:55

time period, we all on a stopwatch. You

53:57

know, the one huge fallacy that...

54:00

we all live by or many people

54:02

live by is the Peter Pan, let's

54:06

call it myth of living forever.

54:09

This notion that this will never

54:11

end, which actually just stops us

54:13

from really living our lives to the

54:15

fullest because there's always on Monday. On

54:18

Monday, I'll start my life. On Monday, I'll go

54:20

to the gym. On Monday, I'll take my break.

54:22

On Monday, I'll be honest with my boss. On

54:25

Monday, on Monday, on Monday, Monday never comes. But

54:27

the moment you know that one day the last will be

54:29

switched off and that will be the end, actually it

54:31

puts you on a stopwatch and you've got to live last

54:34

to the fullest now because Monday might not

54:36

come. So I think it's

54:39

quite an interesting exercise, especially if

54:42

you do it with the people that are closest

54:44

to you, people that are kind and people that

54:46

are honest. Then you get a

54:48

true reflection of what people will truly say and what

54:50

people do say about you when

54:52

you're not around. Were

54:54

there any surprises to you? No,

54:57

I think there were mostly pleasant

54:59

about it and genuinely

55:01

sad that I had gone. Was

55:07

it satisfyingly sad? Look,

55:10

I wasn't looking. It wasn't an ego

55:12

trip. In fact, it was exactly the

55:14

opposite. I think that was what made it

55:16

exciting is that suddenly you are

55:18

forced to come to terms of why

55:20

you're actually friends with this person. What

55:23

is it that kept you in their life and kept

55:25

them in yours? It

55:28

gives you an opportunity to change something that if you

55:30

hear something that you don't like. Oh, I'm so ready

55:33

to get rid of some of them if they

55:35

have shitty obituaries. Don't you worry. I can move

55:37

on very quickly. I did

55:39

see a comment here and I don't want you to pay

55:41

any attention to the stock, but I do want to acknowledge

55:43

the comment. Someone

55:46

here says someone has to talk to

55:48

Gareth about how cruel he is to

55:51

James. He must stop abusing James or

55:53

something. Yeah, I mean that's

55:55

nonsense, right? Just one word answer

55:57

is fine, Doc. That's

56:01

nonsense. There we

56:03

go. The doctor has spoken.

56:06

Very good. Alright, very very good. I

56:09

stood up to begin my mother-in-law's eulogy,

56:11

says joking atheist. I'd like

56:13

to thank everyone for being here today. I

56:15

said, especially the person in the coffin. Alright,

56:17

Dr. Hannon, we will check in with you shortly. Have

56:23

an excellent week. Thank you guys,

56:25

hard to see. Thank

56:31

you.