0:05

So you

0:07

just woken up. Sure, you missed a

0:10

very aggressive, very hostile first

0:12

hour of the show this morning. My

0:14

goodness. People are people across. It's

0:16

where we'd been locked up in Rikers for 24 hours. It's

0:20

where we've been to Glen Vista. What

0:22

a rough place Leanne is from. People

0:26

are we've been talking about

0:28

like schools and fights that break out at

0:30

schools. And there was a video that went

0:32

viral over the weekend. Jethro

0:35

says you need a shambok in your left

0:37

and a nobkiri in your right hand. Unbelievable.

0:41

Yeah. Sainel says if

0:43

Dr. Hannon had been on, he

0:46

would have calmed us down and James should

0:48

really get the brunt of this. I don't know. He

0:50

was inciting violence earlier. That's

0:52

true. There's a lot of incitement of violence. Actually,

0:54

I'm worried the show is going to be banned

0:56

by YouTube. So enjoy it while

0:58

it lasts. All right. We

1:01

got so much to talk about still this

1:03

morning. I do want to avoid politics wherever

1:05

possible because I'm so not interested in all

1:07

the posturing around the election right now. And

1:10

I know we've still got about

1:12

20 odd days to go. I

1:15

can't wait for it to be over. Really. I'll

1:17

be voting in Boma Langa. Why?

1:19

Because you'll be on holiday. But

1:22

then you won't be able to vote in your provincial election.

1:25

Only your. No, you can. I've

1:27

applied. You have to apply for it

1:29

specifically. Can you? Yes. And you've

1:32

got documents. I

1:34

don't know. Again, my brothers organised this. Leanne,

1:39

you're so irresponsible. You

1:42

don't care. And then you know what you're going to

1:44

do? Two days after the election. I know what you're

1:46

going to do. No, no. No, ladsheeting

1:48

again. I can't believe this country.

1:51

I said I would not go on holiday

1:53

if I could not vote. I

1:56

know you went to school. What

1:58

did you say? I said I would. not go

2:00

on holiday unless I could vote and

2:02

so my brother organized it

2:05

for the whole family but in

2:07

any case I'm going to have to fly. That brother of

2:09

yours has to do

2:11

everything. I know I feel very bad. The

2:13

rest of you all like a big you're

2:16

all like a bunch of lummoxes you just slow him

2:18

down you make his life a misery.

2:20

This poor brother of yours no wonder he needs to go on holiday

2:23

all the time. He had to go and fire someone.

2:26

He's a parasitic family who's constantly on his back

2:29

forcing him to do all the work. He had

2:31

to fly to London to fly to fire someone.

2:34

To fire someone? Oh

2:36

that's fun. I'd love to

2:38

fly somewhere especially to fire somebody. Call

2:41

me a call me

2:43

a fire psychopath. Go

2:45

on you know I'd love it. Hi

2:48

I flew in this morning I'm exhausted can

2:50

you see red-eye flight I just came here

2:52

to fire you. Okay bye. Can

2:56

I ask? No no questions I've got to

2:58

catch my next flight. I'm going

3:00

to rush it to fly. I'm

3:02

going to rush it to hunt

3:05

bears. I was watching with

3:07

my family for a second day that baking

3:09

show where it's called is it cake we

3:11

mentioned this. Oh you did tell me about it

3:13

now it actually sounds good like I don't like cooking

3:15

shows but this sounds interesting. They make these hugely

3:18

realistic. Yeah and then

3:20

they send people into okay so someone might

3:23

need to make an apple. Someone

3:26

might need to make an apple realistic

3:28

looking apple. Someone like the witch

3:30

from Snow White. Someone might need to

3:32

make and then they're going to hide that apple

3:34

in the supermarkets where just

3:36

you buy loose apples and

3:38

then someone comes along with it nice and

3:41

we're talking about violence this morning and you

3:43

get a stab ommeter or something and

3:46

they've got a stab the apple and see

3:48

if they if they got

3:50

the cake or not. What a waste of

3:52

good apples. And cake. And cake. And

3:56

the one guy opens up his challenge. He's

4:00

from Russia. His

4:02

name's got no vowels.

4:04

It's like lils or something. And

4:08

he opens up his challenge and it's this

4:10

pack of corn on a palestarian,

4:12

when I say corn, millies. He

4:15

opens up this plastic and it's millies.

4:19

And as he brings it to his face,

4:21

he sniffs it and he goes,

4:23

hmm, smells like village.

4:29

A village. That's beautiful. So

4:31

yesterday's saying at home, everything we ate,

4:33

we opened it up and we

4:36

smelled like village. Imagine you were

4:38

on a date and a man said, I see you. Oh,

4:41

that's so great. OK,

4:43

so I don't want to do

4:46

any politics this morning. I did

4:48

see that Jacob

4:50

Zuma's disciplinary hearing's been postponed.

4:55

Who in South Africa is still waiting

4:57

for the ANC to discipline Jacob Zuma?

4:59

Who's expecting that to happen? Who's expecting

5:02

him to take it seriously? Yeah,

5:04

this is like something

5:07

is so out of control here. The

5:09

ANC has no... They can't get him

5:11

in for a disciplinary hearing even if they wanted

5:13

to. Yeah, but look how long it's taken to

5:15

get Trump into court for

5:17

Stormy Daniels. And also the horse has

5:19

bolted everybody. Get on with it. Like,

5:21

what kind of childishness is this? Honestly,

5:24

so stupid. Apparently,

5:27

speaking of flying somewhere to fire someone, Leanne

5:30

says there was a flight from

5:32

Frankfurt in Germany that

5:37

was turned into a living hell by the

5:40

passengers. What happened on this flight, Leanne?

5:43

The passengers there were throwing up

5:45

everywhere. They were vomiting violently. So

5:48

I do like the heading and subheading

5:50

of the story. Go on. 70

5:53

vomiting passengers Turned Frankfurt

5:55

Flight into Living Hell. Sounds

5:58

great. Subheading. The

6:00

being trapped in a pinch to

6:02

be false. Miles. Above lead

6:04

with no way to scan. Hinting so

6:06

you you mentioned. These. Things

6:08

that you watch on the internet and those

6:11

tv shows. the realistic cakes and things. I'm.

6:14

A. Regular subscribers to

6:16

passenger shaming. Years

6:19

he fired Pessimist. Eleven Axles It is

6:21

a desert. This episode a category it's

6:23

one accounts on Instagram I am where

6:25

they they. Embarrass.

6:27

What I hope to embarrass these

6:30

disgusting people? On flights

6:32

to like take their shoes off and put this

6:34

seats. right? Next to the hi i'm

6:36

one who's of the road for like a look

6:39

under your arm and you can see the at

6:41

all his foot yes all day that they they

6:43

like thought and the plane and you everyone has

6:45

the here it's. All

6:47

day I'm them to spread this

6:49

stuff all over everyone elses space.

6:52

It's food and. I

6:54

think. Looked flying is

6:56

revolting. Yeah, I don't

6:59

see it as being a glamorous or

7:01

dicta exciting at all. I've never, ever.

7:04

Enjoyed especially in economy. Never enjoyed being

7:06

that close to the people and long

7:08

wolves. The worst in the morning. disgusting

7:10

people die in that at some people

7:12

haven't washed. It's just

7:14

very disappointing and slightest is a it's

7:17

like a big busts in the sky.

7:19

There's nothing cool about it. These

7:22

airlines ready! You guys are trying your best.

7:24

I'm so to make money. It's. Expensive.

7:27

But. The kind of people who you'd

7:29

swear they'll come from. Glenn Visto some

7:32

Mississippi violence. It's ugly and now you

7:34

could vomiting people Us. I

7:36

think this would be hell on. this would be hell on earth. All.

7:39

Of these people live Incision Evil

7:41

seven. Zero of them got the

7:44

same stomach bad there was lying

7:46

summer recess. Which.

7:48

Is a little embarrassing. Full Full full

7:51

As no, we're not evolved new. Don't

7:53

blame us. Were not involved we have

7:55

known to isn't that they're not. I

7:57

feed from a note system and. D

8:00

P Three one five from races to

8:02

Frankfurt they. All had caught the same

8:04

stomach bags and we know what happens. near

8:07

was German people eat with like morris

8:09

buck voiced and snacks was know. They've

8:11

They've eaten in recess. So.

8:14

They will probably eaten at the same. As I

8:16

go to Hell. Oh.

8:19

Gosh, who knows and they were there any

8:21

of the see a couple of bathrooms available.

8:24

To. Minutes is a huge

8:26

the plane the up and now

8:28

they're all throwing up offer bats

8:30

by the time this stomach back

8:32

says in there was so close

8:34

to Frankfurt that the had to

8:36

does keep gus. Says it will

8:38

of curing. They

8:40

were moon. Sorry. They

8:43

were all just clearing up. Imagine how

8:45

the plane started to get that? Pharmacy.

8:48

Smell. After. But

8:50

the fourth person isn't know if I

8:52

even share a person he's I have

8:54

run, I have some run away. It's

8:57

my immediate it's time media to access.

8:59

Sec One once my mom

9:01

got caustic and. My brother gave her

9:03

a plastic bag and had to stop the car. and

9:05

ran down the road block cause

9:08

if i hear i thought almost

9:10

a i would have been a

9:12

nightmare on us know. If they

9:14

all had to dispute states as. Speed.

9:16

Their lunch every way. Ah

9:19

yes it's It's been confirmed that

9:21

the food would have originated in

9:23

versus. A

9:25

condo has initiated an investigation into

9:27

the case to get. The bottom

9:30

of the cause? Disgusting. It's. Some

9:32

buzz people's never be allowed to fly again.

9:36

What? Because they got sick this

9:38

better as if to unacceptable? You.

9:41

Hold it in. slight. You

9:43

can't just have you. Ever vomited in your

9:45

life, Not out a plane. Actually,

9:49

You know what? are probably vomited twice in

9:51

my entire life. That's that does

9:53

not surprise me. And. Both

9:55

times it was in private and I didn't

9:57

that anyone else know. and I

10:00

brushed my teeth and washed my mouth out thoroughly. Gosh,

10:05

when I vomit, I've said

10:07

it before, it sounds like I'm

10:09

being raped by goats. James,

10:14

I've changed my mind, bring the

10:16

shambuckets. I have to have the bottom end

10:19

over something because it just

10:22

flowed. If you

10:24

had to drive over a tube of preface. There

10:27

could be a man watching this now who thought

10:29

up to about five minutes ago, you know, I'd

10:31

really like to marry Leanne. She's the

10:33

woman for me. And now after that disgusting

10:38

atrocious description of what happens to you when

10:40

you're just a little bit ill from maybe

10:42

a bit of shellfish that's not 100%. Oysters,

10:45

I brought that whole oysters one.

10:48

Oh, that guy has just done a massive

10:50

runner. No, no, look, I got

10:52

to apologize to all the guys who were coming here

10:54

this morning just to see if they could marry Leanne.

10:56

They've all run the hills. Maybe

10:59

my honesty will still charm them. Not

11:01

now. Not now. That

11:04

description was appalling. Oh,

11:08

goodness me. So yeah, I'm very glad that

11:10

you vomit like a lady

11:13

and wipe your mouth. I have never ever

11:15

thrown up in front of anyone ever.

11:17

I'd be too embarrassed. The embarrassment would

11:19

kill me. I'd hold it

11:22

in so long I'd die of that before

11:24

I'd die of... I

11:27

had afraid to... What's wrong with you? She had

11:29

too much to... You people who just

11:32

vomit on planes and things, have you got no

11:34

shame? I've actually

11:36

never vomited in public. Come

11:39

to think of it. Oh, I did once. That

11:42

took about two seconds. Oh, wait,

11:44

I did once. Have you ever had...

11:47

No, you wouldn't have. What? I

11:49

wish I had another friend. What

11:51

else? What were you going to ask? I had

11:54

a tequila once and it was one too

11:56

many. And It's almost not vomiting, but

11:58

it just came back up again. Third,

12:01

One from the stomach for saw what a

12:03

terrible waste takita know with in the days

12:05

when you only had like why to gold

12:07

and it will vote on this is mostly

12:09

Kane yeah. So

12:13

yeah my that's happened but as know that

12:15

out a set of as do Uncivil called

12:17

the dealer. And

12:19

what Sicily where we only had

12:21

two kinds. I was invited to

12:23

a to kill assist the sweetened

12:25

ride the I demurred I knew

12:27

I was India. Was

12:29

gonna go and then I yeah I mind know.

12:32

I decided not to. I'm gonna go back

12:34

on to the. Bike. Said the

12:37

for a while thing and say because I liked

12:39

it. I really I enjoyed that I don't want

12:41

to be boring as a said the other day.

12:43

Worst. Part about it is how boring everyone

12:45

elses, right? Yes, You're

12:48

sober, people are. Sent.

12:51

Tested keyboard by you when you're drunk and

12:53

I checked and honesty speak with whose name

12:55

was very tomatoes conviction on this. If you're

12:57

if you're the only serve a person in

12:59

a room. As as the drunk

13:01

people irritating a lucky says guys I'm having

13:04

breakfast up. With the vomit topic I agree

13:06

with sorry three. Yards. Sounds like

13:08

King Charles says mack Sony. With. A

13:10

D V side note to side and

13:12

is suitably much like him. but do

13:14

you insist? I think he probably is

13:16

threatening. Us.

13:19

With nephew he's eaten all over the world

13:21

Saudi led yawning us to stop with the

13:23

subject that I am very i'm trying to

13:25

work, listen to the show and have breakfast

13:28

and you're talking about your vomit experience. I'd

13:30

lucky will stop a promise this money so

13:32

it's hilarious is Janet the best way to

13:34

start the weeks? While she's always been been

13:36

very lavatory large and it's a. I

13:41

could do the prologue to an Alien

13:44

movie. just some subtle mings for or

13:46

just a D C C R. E

13:49

I have a frames. Ah ah

13:51

ah ah ah stopped. I

13:54

get a Facebook stream is a bit

13:56

behind that's right subtitles so perfect grammars,

13:58

great punctuation and everything. Are

14:00

you watch a subtitles? That's interesting. Do.

14:03

You watch video you're not understand me

14:05

the sixties or your elocution is a

14:07

little. There is it all of a

14:09

little as well. Maybe maybe your timing

14:11

is who knows. There's nothing worse than

14:13

the delay. I am the any time

14:15

or watch a movie with subtitles if

14:17

it's in a foreign language and I

14:19

always watch the subtitle do yeah, Why

14:22

That. I'm over time t because I'm also

14:24

doing as a singer sense and is a

14:26

D H. D A contest. Which One thing.

14:28

That's the problem with you. You can't just. It's

14:31

a smuggler with gets the problem

14:33

with such. Just enjoy a. Dinner.

14:36

A tequila for example you have to

14:38

throw up as was edge of my

14:40

voice. So is that you as if

14:42

the put on a show some extra

14:44

extra extra leann. Things are

14:46

famous for gorging themselves and vomiting to

14:48

keep going. Zoe? That's not true. Know

14:50

the Romans used to do that. But

14:53

now and as I have family.

14:55

His. Done that before. And

14:58

I said that are lots of. Know

15:00

there was a doesn't come into this the

15:02

other day that there's a king called Henry

15:04

the First who died of something called assisted

15:07

of Lampreys is the spice of asset. And.

15:09

Then that was because he a city mans

15:11

have too many eels. he had sex as

15:13

it's. By been sober

15:15

for two years now because he wants some

15:17

her love. For being said, the city is

15:20

drunk people Extremely boring the same way that

15:22

I'm extremely boring to them. yeah you know

15:24

what to you are spot on. So what

15:26

I suggest is that we have an apostate

15:28

of so the people and drunk people. The

15:31

drunk people will hang out with each other and

15:33

ice tea and I was at a respite but

15:35

you know it's a thing is and and because

15:37

if you've been so the all gun hang out

15:39

with you and you and i can be boring

15:41

together and the drug people can watch us go

15:43

look up words that have blurring of as i

15:45

am is to you and what I was gonna

15:48

take this last week but. My.

15:50

And I waited all week. The Cia are

15:52

acid or to put about it in the

15:54

Salahis enemy good my plenty to has. his

15:57

aunt has a parents rise His

16:00

aunt got this parrot because somebody went

16:02

to jail and that could no longer

16:04

have the parrot and you know these African greys They're

16:07

lost in the f. Yeah, so this

16:09

person was incarcerated She

16:11

took the parrot from him, but the

16:13

person who was incarcerated was a drunk

16:17

and a smoker And

16:19

so she records this parrot and sends

16:21

the sound clips. I'll get you

16:23

one. Is it rude? No, it's

16:25

not rude It's the coffin and vomiting

16:28

Oh, it's mimics Please

16:36

record it. We need it for the show. I'll get

16:38

it for you. That's so great So this parrot learnt

16:41

those sounds from its former owner It

16:43

was kept next to the bathroom Who's in

16:45

jail and who used to have a drinking and

16:48

smoking problem? Yeah. Wow, that's great How

16:50

funny I would love everyone to have

16:54

an African Grey parrot I wish they

16:56

were so abundant and cheap that everyone

16:58

had one and it would just randomly

17:00

start playing back very personal

17:02

and private conversations that people are having in

17:04

their house If

17:08

you were like a drug dealer or something I hate

17:10

the kids to Imagine

17:12

being in the mafia and your parents thoughts. Yeah

17:15

ratting you out Give him concrete

17:18

shoes Pull him in

17:20

the river Great On

17:23

the show says my fellow you use so many words like

17:26

names of places and people that I like to see how

17:28

they're written That's why I turn

17:30

on subtype. Oh, wow. Okay, will

17:32

it come up immediately? Like

17:34

if I say the roger bushed good news How's

17:37

that? I'm

17:40

gonna watch now with subtitles just to

17:42

see what roger go a bus I

17:48

Wonder how it's uh, see if you can get

17:50

a screenshot of that. That'll be Fantastic.

17:53

Okay. Um, apparently my

17:55

apartheid will be a problem. Listen

17:57

apartheid's always not a great Never

18:00

been a good thing really. No, didn't really

18:02

work. Um, but Carl says my apartheid will

18:04

be a problem because the park benches for

18:06

the drunks will be taken by sleeping people

18:08

and there'll be fights. Oh. You

18:12

know, but the drunks will... Right there. How's

18:14

that felt? Right

18:16

there. Right there. Yeah, we're

18:18

coming up with a lot of words that

18:20

will come up beautifully on some titles this

18:22

morning. I don't mind being so

18:25

this is Ian Megan. Her name is

18:27

Ian Megan. Okay. I

18:29

mean, either your parents... Either

18:33

your parents are big Marvel and DC

18:35

fans. Oh,

18:39

you're a hardcore bitch, but

18:41

Ian Megan says... I will not

18:43

drink. She goes, I don't mind

18:46

being sober around drunk people.

18:48

It's like watching toddlers trying to

18:50

talk to each other. Ma.

18:53

Ha ha ha. Ian Megan. Beautiful.

18:56

Wow. Wow. All

18:59

right. Well, I mean, listen, whatever you need. Hey,

19:01

can Leanne remove her bottle from the

19:04

table? Oh, geez. Sorry. That's

19:07

not even the comments. That was the producers. Oh,

19:09

that's sorry. No, grab your shambok.

19:11

Just go in there. Sort them

19:14

out. We've learnt this is acceptable on this

19:16

show. Jethro says my brother

19:18

vomited out of the car window while driving

19:21

on the highway. Wow. That's

19:23

considered for all... Was he driving? Considered

19:25

for all the people behind you.

19:28

Imagine you were just driving, minding your

19:30

own business on the N1 Monday

19:33

morning at this time. No, it

19:35

would dissipate surely. On the highway. Jesus. What

19:38

bird was that? Geez. Listen,

19:42

Noah, I've just remembered I have been

19:45

vomited on. No. I

19:47

thought we were moving on from this. Sorry. Just

19:49

a quick one. You know that ride that

19:51

you sit in? It was at Goldwry City

19:53

and it was called the Cocoa Pan but now they've got

19:55

them all over. It starts like this and

19:58

then... Yes, I love that thing. Yeah. Well as

20:00

I was sitting here... Your stomach goes right up

20:02

into your throat. I was here and as

20:05

I was here, someone here vomited. I was

20:07

sitting here and it went spelush on all

20:09

of us. Not great. Alright,

20:13

can you please not stop? I

20:17

mean stop. Can we stop? Alright,

20:19

very good. I'm

20:23

just blown away by the fact that we have

20:25

someone who listens to us called Ian Megan. That's

20:29

just the greatest. Maybe she's been through a lot

20:31

and she's not strong.

20:33

She's made of tough stuff, right?

20:35

Okay, very good. Why

20:38

don't we bring our guest in a little early. Here's

20:40

his book. So take a look at this, Leanne. This

20:42

is called, prescription

20:45

ice cream, a doctor's journey to

20:47

discover what matters. And

20:49

it's by Dr. Alistair McAlpine, who tells

20:52

me that he's just

20:54

had a little boy, he and his wife. So

20:57

that's going to be exciting to hear about.

21:00

I was a bit nervous to talk to him

21:02

because it says on the back here that he

21:04

has been a palliative pediatrician. Now you know what

21:06

palliative care is, right? End of life care. Right.

21:09

And pediatrician means children. So

21:11

I was like, oh no,

21:13

we can't talk about dying children

21:15

on a Monday morning. That's going to

21:17

depress everybody. What a horrible

21:20

topic. And I thought, ugh, I had

21:22

to press everyone and make them miserable on

21:24

a Monday first thing. Ugh.

21:27

He wants to do it. And he thought, you know what? This

21:30

guy probably got some incredible

21:32

stories of real heroism. You hear about

21:34

these kids who, like, even though they

21:37

have short lives, they get to have

21:41

these amazing stories and dispense all kinds

21:43

of thoughts that only honesty that children

21:45

have can be brought about by. Plus,

21:48

what a brave guy himself to

21:50

have to deal with that day after day

21:53

and maintain a positive outlook. I thought, listen,

21:55

we could probably learn from him. But

21:57

here he is. He's sitting right next to you, Leanne. Hello,

22:01

hello, where did you come from? Nice

22:04

to see you, Doc. Thank

22:06

you very much for having me. Good,

22:08

well, I mean, the book is called

22:10

Prescription Ice Cream, and you

22:12

actually have a whole chapter on why ice cream is

22:15

actually good. I

22:17

don't know whether to take it terribly seriously or not.

22:19

This is a big fucking bad idea. Just tell us

22:21

about you and your career so far and how you

22:23

got into this, because I've

22:25

always wondered about why people choose to specialise in

22:28

certain kinds of medicine, and

22:30

palliative paediatrics, that's a tough

22:33

choice. How did you get to

22:35

that? So I

22:37

trained in my undergraduate UCC, and I

22:39

always knew from sort of internship that

22:41

I wanted to go into paediatrics. I've

22:43

always enjoyed working with children, just, you

22:45

know, they're lots of fun, and always

22:48

got a lot of meaning and joy from working

22:50

with them. In the book,

22:52

and you guys were talking about a part

22:54

of my own experience, was while I was

22:56

in medical school, I suffered from a terrible

22:58

debilitating bout of alcoholism. And

23:01

I really... At medical school? At medical school,

23:03

and actually was suspended because of that, and

23:05

had to go into rehab for a long

23:07

period of time. And so I know what

23:09

it's like to be in a mental institution.

23:11

I know what it's like to be on

23:13

the other end of a stethoscope. I know

23:16

what it's like to have judgement against you

23:18

and to sort of have prejudice. And

23:20

it's one of the things in the book that I talk

23:22

about, because in the medical career, in the medical system, mental

23:25

health issues are rife, and we just don't

23:27

talk about it. And so I

23:29

came out of that really wanting to sort of try to

23:31

help people. I actually didn't want

23:33

to go into palates of paediatrics. I wanted

23:36

to go into infectious diseases, which is

23:39

what I'm doing now. But by sort of

23:41

a quirk of the universe, there were no posts. Oh,

23:44

okay. Take what you could get. And

23:47

I had been so touched by the palates of service who

23:49

had helped me when I was in my training at Red Cross.

23:53

And the amazing work they had done was

23:55

one of my patients, a couple of my

23:57

patients, and I was really inspired because... We're

24:00

good at treating people. Medicine is good

24:02

at fixing broken people. But we're really

24:04

not good at helping people who are

24:06

going to die and how to help

24:08

them move on to the next plane.

24:11

And I just felt really strongly like

24:13

we do that really badly. Everything we

24:15

do is geared towards we need

24:17

to fix you, we need to fix you, we need to fix

24:19

you. And if we can't fix you, we failed and we're just

24:21

going to walk away. And the

24:23

truth is we can't fix everybody. That's just

24:26

reality. And so for those who

24:28

we can't fix, we are not very good at

24:30

then saying, well, how can we help you so

24:33

that the final stages of your

24:35

life are not filled with pain and misery and

24:37

suffering. They're filled with joy and meaning and hope.

24:40

And that's really what inspired me watching the

24:42

palliates of pediatricians who I worked with. And

24:45

I thought that's something I feel really strongly about. I

24:47

really feel like we don't do this very well and

24:49

we especially don't do it well with kids. We

24:52

all want to run away and hide. But it is.

24:54

I mean, it's just such a hard business that I

24:57

suppose a lot of these kids, they would

24:59

have like what, you

25:01

know, leukemia, that kind of thing.

25:05

It must be just devastating. I can

25:07

only imagine how hard it would be to go

25:09

to work if that's what you're faced with every

25:12

day. You know, I thought

25:14

that too. And then what happened was

25:16

I was working with these kids and

25:18

they didn't have the same heaviness I

25:20

had. They weren't filled with this existential

25:23

angst and doubt and, you know,

25:25

crushed by sadness. They were upbeat.

25:27

They were happy. They were smiling.

25:29

And so I said to them,

25:31

how can this be? How is it that you

25:34

guys who are facing mortality at such a

25:36

young age are able to find

25:38

such joy and meaning? And so that's what prompted

25:40

actually the my five minutes of fame, which is

25:43

where I said to them, how

25:45

do you guys find such happiness and joy? And

25:48

they told me and it wasn't brain

25:50

surgery. It wasn't revolutionary stuff. It was basic stuff

25:52

that we all know. But

25:55

I think we forget. So They taught you things.

25:57

Oh, my goodness. They Taught me everything. I'm such

25:59

an image. Perfectly so I you know I

26:01

was. I was in Mini in many respects, a

26:03

very wounded. he left. From what I've said, you

26:05

know I'd I'd gone through a lot since I

26:08

was on my own journey and and I see

26:10

to them what makes what makes you happy and

26:12

an ally. I've been created a his back and

26:14

Twenty eight seen a thread based on what they

26:16

had told me and you know I. I I

26:19

tweeted it off at lunchtime and them, you know,

26:21

forty eight hours at it had circled the globe

26:23

and I went viral and had my five minutes

26:25

the same. And. That what

26:27

they said really touched a lot of

26:29

people and and and and the lessons

26:31

that they were able to impart really

26:33

resonated with so many. And and that's

26:35

what sparked ultimately the idea for the

26:37

book, which was how is it that

26:40

we find joy, happiness? In

26:42

such a tragedy rather than or moping and

26:44

feeling glum the whole time. but this certainly

26:46

the kids didn't feel that way and their

26:49

message was not for us to feel that

26:51

way. They. Had huge capacity for happiness

26:53

and joy and they could tell us how to

26:55

find it's you've already raised. The turn of the

26:57

says from like All the Violence Is Now is

27:00

not really on. I consider Different a snowy very.

27:02

We're very pleased to do here. and I mean

27:04

it's it's It's an inspiring thing to read, but.

27:07

What? What's so does. Things

27:10

did these kids tell you what what kinds

27:12

of things to do learn from them, I

27:14

mean, you say that to generally their demeanor?

27:17

Is happier and more upbeat and units

27:19

contrary to what you would have expected

27:21

for people who have any so time

27:23

to go. I suppose we're

27:25

all just on. A. Death sentence is

27:28

just depends how much time you and right

27:30

exactly. You either accept that and make the

27:32

most of what you've got, not necessarily knowing

27:34

how long it is. Or. You

27:37

sit mope, Her. And and

27:39

moping doesn't suit any one well. and at

27:41

and moping is not not the key to

27:43

happiness and the kids didn't month. so

27:46

first of all i think the

27:48

instantly none of them placed any

27:50

emphasis in meaning on things like

27:52

facebook on things like number of

27:54

followers on things like how are

27:56

they wish they will watch more

27:58

thieves what What they really, really

28:00

attached meaning to was family time

28:02

and engaged family time. So time

28:04

with their family where people are

28:07

engaged and not sucked into their

28:09

cell phones the whole time, which

28:11

we're all guilty of, myself included.

28:15

Actual quality one-on-one time with their

28:17

families, stories, stories are

28:20

massive. And in particular, hearing stories,

28:22

reading stories, they just love stories,

28:24

they love humor, they love farts,

28:26

they love vomiting. The stuff that

28:28

you've been talking about this morning,

28:30

kids are delighted by that kind

28:34

of thing. Now that you mention it, you've found

28:36

out that was our strategy from the start. We're

28:38

here to cheer up the kids. Or that we

28:40

are just still kids. We're going to claim that

28:42

we're noble and our whole purpose this morning was

28:45

just to cheer up the children. That's why

28:47

we talk such nonsense for an entire hour

28:49

and 15 minutes. They love it. Farting,

28:52

pooping, weering. I've got

28:54

a book that I need to

28:57

read to my nephew called

29:01

something about snot. And he's a

29:03

snot thing at the moment. I think it's

29:05

hilarious. But do you think that

29:09

children perhaps haven't had

29:11

the time to place value

29:14

on life like

29:16

adults have? You know when something's

29:18

been going for so long and you think, what a

29:20

pity if it had to stop now.

29:22

It's called sunken cost syndrome. No,

29:26

really. It's like those people and I

29:28

don't understand this very well either. Perhaps

29:30

there's something wrong with me. But there's

29:32

people who will sit in a terrible

29:34

movie and because they've already sat for

29:38

15, 20, 30 minutes, maybe even an hour, they're like, well, I've

29:40

got to stay till the end. Now I'm in

29:42

too deep. I get up and leave.

29:45

So maybe I have a closer

29:47

and more similar attitude to kids

29:49

who are like, I'm not going to waste time here.

29:53

That is exactly right. And wasting time is

29:55

being miserable and moping and feeling sorry for

29:57

yourself. And maybe also because they are. I

30:01

mean they've just come into the world so everything's wonder.

30:05

When you've got wonder and curiosity, you

30:08

do want to keep going. Yeah, you should have written the book.

30:10

You're absolutely right. I mean I think that thing is that they

30:12

don't have, when you don't have much time things,

30:14

and I mean as you say we all don't have

30:16

much time, but when you especially don't have much time,

30:19

you cut through the BS, right? The

30:22

things that are important are crystallized

30:24

in your mind. And so they're very good at

30:26

focusing on what really matters and

30:29

what is a load of horseshit quite frankly.

30:31

And so much of being an adult I

30:33

think as we get caught up in a

30:35

lot of stuff that actually doesn't matter and

30:37

we forget. And I think why

30:40

the thread resonated with people is not because

30:42

it told anyone any great truth they'd never

30:44

heard before. I think it reminded

30:46

people of stuff they already know but have

30:48

maybe just forgotten in their day-to-day stuff. So

30:50

you don't need, it doesn't require some kind

30:53

of guru to tell you that being with

30:55

your family is important. And you

30:57

mentioned laughter just now and I think that

30:59

that's such an important thing. I mean there's

31:02

that brilliant movie with Robin Williams, the name of which

31:05

escapes me at the moment, where he's

31:07

the doctor. Patch Adams. Patch Adams,

31:09

thank you. He just dispenses laughter. And that to

31:12

me was like, yes, now we're getting closer to

31:14

the truth. Do you know what I feel

31:16

like? Make the kids laugh. We

31:18

know for a fact that it reduces pain. There's

31:22

plenty of studies on this. It's almost like

31:24

the pain receptor, there's pain and

31:26

happiness and they compete for the same

31:28

receptor. And if you're making people laugh,

31:30

the pain can't go in. And it's

31:32

amazing how laughter and happiness

31:34

reduce pain. A lot of pressure on comedians,

31:36

huh? So a lot of pressure. South Africa's

31:39

comedians are like, whoa, we've got big work

31:41

ahead of us. So many people are waking

31:43

up in pain. But

31:46

that's an interesting observation that you think they

31:48

might even, you know, they might not be

31:50

able to operate at the same time. I

31:53

mean, that that that's not like a big,

31:55

fancy scientific thing. It's just something I've observed

31:58

when people are laughing and they're happy. They

32:02

certainly aren't in as much pain. We

32:04

know the corollary is true. We know

32:06

that when people are sad and unhappy,

32:08

that pain is worse. The physical pain

32:10

is worse. They

32:13

loved laughter. They loved their pets.

32:16

They loved their pets, their cats,

32:18

their dogs. They just love hanging

32:21

out with animals, even

32:23

gray parrots. They

32:26

loved hanging out. They loved going

32:28

places like the beach, even out

32:30

just outside, sitting in the sand, on

32:34

the grass. They

32:36

love getting out and about, going to

32:38

the aquarium, wherever it may be, just

32:41

experiencing nature and experiencing outside.

32:44

Absolutely love that. It's that whole theory of

32:46

our lives are in the

32:48

wrong order. We should be looking forward

32:50

to being a child when we're older. Yeah,

32:53

exactly. Maybe one of

32:55

the reasons that this also appealed to me and why

32:57

I wanted to talk to you is because I used

32:59

to be very involved with Reach for a Dream. They

33:02

used to do these amazing things for kids. It's

33:05

even more amazing that some of their

33:07

dreams that they wanted to access,

33:11

do, experience, live

33:13

for before they

33:15

exited, stage left, were actually

33:17

such simple things. Like,

33:20

you know, if I want a chocolate cake, or

33:22

I want to go to the beach,

33:24

or stuff that most

33:26

of us take for granted, watching

33:30

a goldfish go around and around in a bowl. It's

33:34

little simple things, simple pleasures

33:36

that give people the greatest satisfaction. If you

33:39

are at the

33:41

end of your tether and you're miserable and

33:43

you're depressed and you're downcast and all that

33:45

kind of thing, sometimes the smallest thing can

33:47

make a massive difference. There's a

33:49

story in the book about two kids who just desperately wanted to

33:51

go to the aquarium. It was a

33:53

real effort because they were on ventilators and things like that.

33:56

So it wasn't simply a matter of chucking them in the

33:58

car and going, you know, you had to have... Nurses

34:00

on standby you have a sheet we knew

34:02

how to so it was it was a

34:04

real real efforts But it was

34:07

so worth it because the joy and wonder that they

34:09

got from just getting out of their

34:11

stuffy room Yeah, and getting out

34:13

and being amongst you know the fish and

34:15

and all of the stuff like Totally

34:18

worth it and again, you know,

34:20

we all know how amazing nature is. You don't need

34:22

me to tell you but We

34:25

need to be reminded how about that time

34:27

that? You

34:30

were visited by gangsters So

34:33

the going back to the book very quickly So

34:35

the book is in three parts and the first

34:38

part is about my internship at Chris Hani Baragwanov

34:40

Hospital Which is a wild it

34:42

was for a while the biggest hospital in

34:44

the world. I think it's third now It's

34:46

a little it's still an incredibly Curious

34:49

place. I mean it's wild To

34:51

get two places within Barag and

34:54

so the first part of the book is about what it's like to

34:56

be a medical professional There and that's what

34:58

when I was there quite early We

35:01

were visited by gangsters who were the

35:03

the family of a of an elderly

35:05

guy who himself was was quite a

35:07

serious gangster He was unwell and

35:10

what was incredible was how I had always

35:12

felt like we were safe in the hospital

35:14

That's you know This was our place and

35:17

the truth was the minute these guys walked

35:19

in there It was their place and they

35:21

dictated everything Who they just and they just

35:23

like fix them all and they were and

35:26

I brought up a slightly interesting ethical

35:29

question because People are allowed

35:31

to refuse medical treatments. That's part of being an adult.

35:33

You're allowed to say I don't want you to treat

35:35

me anymore Medical treatment

35:37

is obviously optional But you

35:39

have to be in a proper state

35:41

of mind to be able to make

35:43

that call right and this elderly gentleman

35:46

was incredibly confused And ordinarily would

35:48

probably not have been in a state where he could

35:50

have made the decision About

35:52

his own health. He was quite unwell.

35:54

So his family walked in there these

35:56

guys with guns and demanded that

36:00

we release him by the letter

36:02

of the law we should have refused

36:05

but when you're faced with two guys with

36:07

guns who are not

36:09

subtle about it do

36:12

you really want to stand up you know do

36:14

you really push that and say I'm dreadfully sorry

36:16

guys you know you're your

36:18

father's not in a not in a state where

36:20

he can possibly leave this hospital you let him

36:22

go let him go yeah

36:24

I would have done that and when this

36:26

thing to worry about I mean

36:29

I don't know whether that was right enough but I

36:31

don't know that I was willing to take six in

36:33

the chest no this guy so not worth it but

36:35

that's the kind of thing that happens at Barra you

36:37

know it's it's a wild it can be a very

36:39

wild experience and you have these situations

36:42

where no one in medical school prepared you for

36:44

what do you do when gangsters enter your ward

36:46

and demand to see you is

36:49

it is harder being a doctor in

36:53

pallets of pediatrics or being a dad

36:55

because you did say to me earlier

36:57

that you've just you just had your

37:00

first kid and the sleep deprivation is

37:02

a real thing oh and the diet

37:04

I mean I have a cousin who's a

37:06

pediatric surgeon and the

37:09

diagnosis she does on her own son

37:11

all the time you can't help yourself you

37:13

can't separate being a mother or

37:15

a father from being a doctor yeah my

37:18

my fiance you know if

37:21

he's we're both positions and if

37:23

he sort of wakes up in a switch you're like

37:25

it's not a fever yeah I'm either oh my gosh

37:27

I'm thinking to the hospital I'm like no no no

37:29

I think he's probably just warm in the in the

37:31

room it's it's weird it's a being a parent and

37:33

being a pediatrician are two

37:35

very very different things I

37:37

no one prepared me for for being a

37:40

parent I was very well prepared for how

37:42

to treat sick children I was totally unprepared

37:44

for how to deal with a child who's

37:46

not sleeping at night or is refusing a

37:49

bottle or you know is

37:51

throwing up every every meal you

37:53

give so I

37:55

knew I knew damping to the voice. Conclusion:

37:57

I Felt well prepared to be a pal.

38:00

It's a pediatrician and I feel completely

38:02

unprepared. See how be a dad? Isn't

38:04

that scary though? The is is that

38:06

the whole world is made up of

38:08

dads and moms remain as and airy.

38:11

That they don't then no one for pay. Everybody

38:13

is no one gets a oh yeah but

38:15

yeah but that's part of the fun to

38:17

and I mean you also have to think

38:19

on your feet. Even the doctor we we

38:21

always assumed doctors know all the answers. Sometimes

38:23

you have no idea. writes. Sometimes.

38:26

You like oh god I better go and

38:28

ask some other people are but again look

38:30

in my in my books I better go

38:32

and spend some time thinking about this and

38:34

this do more tests most doctors they don't

38:36

really know on on the face of it

38:38

exactly what's wrong. And represent an

38:41

Mls. Okay, we'd unexpected be gods.

38:43

And. And I think. If they were

38:45

sometimes more humility in our profession, that would

38:47

go down better because nobody knows everything and

38:50

and it's fine to sell. Look how many

38:52

of you doctors had the the sit kicked

38:54

out of you during cozad. Because.

38:56

It turned out that even the people who

38:59

supposedly new with they were talking about with

39:01

completely wing it's. These. Doctors and

39:03

I mean that was an embarrassing

39:05

time in a lot of credibility

39:07

was said, or maybe we just

39:09

became realistic rather than. You. Know

39:11

many of you realize that. Physicians.

39:14

On Demi Gods they just they just

39:16

listen. Listen blood.fallible week Human beings like

39:18

like everybody and and I do get

39:20

it wrong sometimes that gotta You gotta

39:22

really think carefully about with you want

39:24

a second opinion on things in most

39:26

doctors will say to you go for

39:28

second opinion unless you're right said with

39:30

i you as a couple of them

39:32

to egomaniacs I'm sure that you know

39:34

a lot of the move will say

39:36

to you know entirely sure takes balls

39:38

to say I don't know. The.

39:42

Night. So what's the hardest thing? About.

39:46

Being. In this, in this job, the children

39:48

and and now moving beyond that, the parents

39:51

of pediatric since infectious diseases. What's the hardest

39:53

part of it And what do you love

39:55

the most? Am. I.

39:58

Would I would say that the high. This part

40:00

of it and internet this is answer the

40:02

question is how medicine these days. Like.

40:04

So many other jobs is becoming

40:07

more and more bureaucratic, More and

40:09

more administrators and serve those of

40:11

us who wins in some medicine.

40:13

With the idea that we wanted

40:15

to hang, hang around and and

40:17

treat patients now, spent most of

40:19

our days filling out forms. Clinton

40:21

clicking screams i'm applying to insurance

40:23

companies for drugs and so it

40:25

feels to me like. And

40:28

under suspicion happens when you become more

40:30

senior in your career. I. I. Want

40:32

to hang out with my patience and

40:34

I went to interact with patience and

40:36

everything else is pulling me away from

40:38

that and I get more and more

40:40

sucked into what I find. Just the

40:42

incredibly boring administration is. Side.

40:44

Of things and and I think that

40:47

that a lot of people in various

40:49

jobs feel that way and I just

40:51

hates how the bureaucratization and and assess

40:53

the word young has has. Taken.

40:55

Away from why so many of us myself

40:57

included got into the job. I don't like

40:59

filling out paperwork cinnamon And third that your

41:02

favorite part is dealing with people. By far

41:04

that's the best bit seen a to sit

41:06

there and have to people and hang out

41:08

with them And and fine try and make

41:10

them feel better. You know you're useless if

41:12

we don't always succeed in that that primarily

41:14

our job is to make them feel better

41:16

as when you have. Such. Limited

41:18

time. You've got thirty minutes and you know the

41:21

twenty of those minutes is going to be Spence

41:23

fucking a computer screen or rising A thing. That

41:25

means you got ten minutes as you patients Now

41:27

it's means how are you supposed to possibly grapple

41:30

with what they're going through when you got ten

41:32

minutes? You know you kind of now and no

41:34

one? no and us to outlook the some hypochondriac

41:36

who will. But most people when they go to

41:39

a doctor they really just want to. Have

41:42

a discussion about what's ailing them. And.

41:45

And. Hopefully. Have. The

41:47

confidence that somebody who they're talking to is

41:49

going to help them solve that problem. Is.

41:52

Most. Of the time that you are meant to

41:55

be spending with a misspent doing. Forms.

41:57

And. In a city in front of a

41:59

let's. up, then that's

42:02

not what you're there for. It's a

42:04

total waste of everyone's time. And I think

42:06

that feeds into why there has been

42:08

a general decline in the trust of doctors

42:10

because people often feel like they're not heard.

42:13

Yeah, you feel like you're being overlooked when

42:15

a doctor goes the ACE right

42:17

breathe antibiotics. And a friend

42:19

of mine, I talk about it in the book,

42:21

a friend of mine, you know, she'd injured her

42:23

knee and she was waiting to see the orthopedic

42:25

surgeon and she was sitting in the cubicle and

42:27

he came out from seeing his other patient and

42:29

he said, where's the knee? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You

42:32

know, in his brain

42:34

already, this patient was,

42:36

and she had, she was a sports, she was a

42:39

sports woman, she was worried that she wouldn't be able

42:41

to compete. And so she had a whole bunch of

42:43

anxieties and things she wanted to talk about, about

42:46

her knee, when could she get back? And

42:48

when she heard that, she just heard, oh,

42:50

he sees me as a knee. And then,

42:53

I don't know, like I was treated like

42:55

that once by an orthopedic surgeon who said,

43:03

but you're depressed. And a year

43:05

later I had to have a hip replacement because

43:07

he'd misdiagnosed me. Like,

43:10

you know, that's a hell of

43:12

a misdiagnosis. Hip

43:14

replacement. Yeah, because I, a lot of distance between

43:16

those because I, he

43:18

was a runner and an athlete. I

43:21

was an overweight woman. But he

43:23

didn't, he didn't listen properly. Didn't listen properly. He

43:25

didn't listen properly. He didn't give me an x-ray.

43:27

He just said you're depressed and sent me out

43:29

and I had to have my bone cut

43:31

off because it was sponge. I'm

43:34

really sorry about that. No, I'm sorry. It's

43:36

not your fault. You had nothing to do with it. But,

43:39

but, but ice cream. Okay.

43:41

To go back to the title of the book. I mean,

43:44

listen, everybody feels better with an ice cream, but

43:47

it's an interesting title because I think it's

43:49

symbolic of so many of the other cool

43:52

things that people can do

43:54

to make other people's lives a bit better.

43:56

And this is really where doctors are at

43:59

their best is when they. and you walk out of

44:01

there and you're like, oh, thank goodness, I'm not

44:03

about to expire. Yeah,

44:06

but I mean, even on that, has

44:08

a patient ever completely surprised

44:10

you by you thought

44:13

that they were going into palliative care and

44:15

they made it out? All the time.

44:17

It's incredible how often, again, we get it wrong.

44:22

You're like, and then this is

44:24

one of the questions people always ask in palliative

44:26

care, is how much time? And

44:29

it is such a difficult

44:32

question to answer and people feel sometimes like we're

44:34

dodging when we say like, I don't

44:36

know, because we've had people who are like, today

44:38

is the day. And

44:41

then years later, they're trucking on, you know,

44:43

and we're like, oh, it's gonna be

44:46

a few weeks, I think. A friend of

44:48

mine got some bad news about his dad

44:50

and he was telling me, like he's

44:53

not giving up, he's looking into all the

44:55

different forms of treatment and what could

44:57

be and couldn't be done. And he spoke to

45:00

a woman over the weekend who, you know, filled

45:02

him up with hope that there is a chance.

45:04

And really, that's like three quarters of the work.

45:07

If you can fill someone up with hope rather than

45:09

despair, absolutely, that's what

45:11

ice cream is. There is a fine

45:13

line though, I will push back gently

45:15

on that, in that false hope is

45:18

quite an awful thing. So don't give

45:20

people hope if it's not

45:22

realistic. Yeah, like if they're flat-lining, don't

45:25

tell them to fill the top. I

45:27

can cure your stage four cancer if

45:30

you can't. You know, because that's

45:32

cruel, you're provided. And what you are

45:34

then doing is taking away the focus.

45:36

If the person truly has a limited

45:38

amount of time left, they

45:40

should be aware of that and they should maximize

45:42

that time. People will say, I have

45:44

a few months, it's really important, I do the things I wanna

45:47

do, rather than I'm gonna be

45:49

fine, this is gonna be fine. I'm gonna

45:51

take this random thing and actually, you know,

45:53

I've got many years left. So I think

45:56

for me, it's important that you always

45:58

are realistic with people and... useful to the

46:00

best of your knowledge because you don't want to mislead

46:02

them and then because then they're going to feel really

46:04

upset if something happens again. So you said it was

46:06

going to be fine and it was not fine. Why

46:09

did you say that? So it's a

46:11

balance that you have to find. You want to provide

46:13

hope. You want to be optimistic, but you also don't

46:15

want to mislead anyone. And with regards to the ice

46:17

cream, yes, it's a bit tongue in

46:19

cheek. But first of all, kids love ice cream. They

46:22

all love ice cream. It's always in nice bright colors.

46:24

It's bright colors. Well, if my mum calls it

46:26

ice cream, I don't know where that

46:28

comes from. She says things like that,

46:30

like sasoor or are you dating it

46:32

today? What's

46:34

cool about ice cream is that you can have an ice

46:36

cream by yourself thinking about you

46:39

can share an ice cream with a friend. You

46:42

can share an ice cream with a group of people. You

46:44

can share an ice cream while chatting. You can

46:46

share an ice cream while just being quiet. There's

46:48

something really uniquely kind of like it's a little

46:50

bit, I guess, if you are on that train

46:52

about like having a beer, you know, there's something

46:55

unique about it in that you can

46:57

share it. It's a shared

46:59

and communal experience associated with emotion.

47:01

Right. Yeah. So you get the we always

47:03

go to this ice cream place and I

47:06

lived in a place where one existed along

47:08

the beach, this ice cream shop that everyone

47:10

goes to. It's like a destination place and everyone's

47:12

happy. Or it could be the

47:14

I'm being stood up on a date. I'm giving

47:16

up on life and I have my type of

47:18

ice cream and I'm sitting in front of the

47:20

TV. Yeah, it's associated with so much emotion. It

47:22

really is. And and and the other thing, of

47:24

course, some of the kids who are in chemotherapy,

47:26

they have these really painful lesions in their mouth,

47:28

which is part of the side effects and the

47:30

ice cream and the cold and the sugar really

47:32

soothes that. So I'm not advocating that everyone go

47:34

and eat tubs of ice cream because you don't

47:36

know. You don't need prescription. But but

47:39

what I want to say is that the

47:41

healing power of sort of a something that

47:43

is you say everybody almost everybody really likes,

47:46

you know, it provides a lot of joy and happiness.

47:49

And, you know, that's why ultimately I thought that that

47:52

was the right title for the book, because despite the

47:54

fact that it deals with a lot of really heavy

47:56

stuff, I

47:58

don't want that. And I hope it. I

48:00

didn't write it with the intention of dragging people

48:02

down. It's ultimately, I think, a book about hope

48:05

and finding joy and happiness, even when

48:08

things are looking pretty tough. And a

48:10

nice sponsorship by Sensodyne. Exactly.

48:12

Tell me about the weird

48:15

things that you saw at Baraguanath when you

48:17

were working there, because that place is chaos.

48:19

I mean, it's also amazing because it's a

48:21

miraculous place. But

48:24

the things that happen there, doctors come from all over the

48:26

world and they can't believe what you guys put up with.

48:30

Almost kind of,

48:32

there's too many things to talk

48:35

about. But I

48:37

remember asking up a, and it's in the book,

48:39

asking a patient to, you know, one of the

48:41

tests we do for tuberculosis is you have to

48:43

hack up a little bit of the stuff in

48:45

your lungs. And then we send it, and we

48:47

have a look to see if we can see the tuberculosis. And

48:50

this gentleman's given the thing, and he coughed, and he

48:52

coughed, and he coughed up a worm.

48:55

Oh, that's a surprise. Yeah, exactly. We were

48:57

all quite surprised. And

49:00

the nurse took one look and didn't miss

49:03

a beat and just said, what

49:05

are we supposed to do with that? Test the

49:07

worm for TB. But what sort of worm was

49:09

it? Like

49:12

a garden variety? In South Africa, we have

49:14

a bunch of worms. And

49:16

that's why we eat deworm children all the time.

49:18

And so you get these long, kind of, almost

49:21

look like earthworms. They're called ascaris. Oh

49:24

my god, it was in his lung? No, it was well.

49:26

But they do go to your lung, and then you cough

49:28

them out into your intestine. This is just great. I hope

49:30

you're going to finish breakfast. And

49:32

they tend to live in your, just outside

49:34

of your stomach. And sometimes you don't... Can

49:36

you feel them crawling? No. Sometimes there's

49:39

too many of them. They form this big ball, and then

49:41

they obstruct your feet, so then you have to get rid

49:43

of them. We were talking about this last

49:45

week. I remember growing up...

49:47

Everyone is welcome, by the way, for that.

49:49

That's lovely. Breakfast is finished. I remember growing

49:51

up in the 80s, it was all about worms.

49:53

They were in the pharmacy in bottles. All

49:56

children were being dewormed. We were into lard

49:58

near sandpits. And it seems to have... Diminish. Oh,

50:00

am I wrong? We just we just deworm everybody

50:02

all the time. So children just get an

50:04

anti-dewirming medication all the time So ironic

50:07

I I Took deworming

50:09

tablets this week. No you didn't. I

50:11

swear to God. I swear I did.

50:13

Yeah, I just decided good idea It's

50:17

a course of six of them. Yeah

50:20

Two a day. Yes for three days. Morning and

50:22

evening. Yeah, there we go. See the idea if

50:24

you live if you live in So you still

50:26

have them I've got rid of mine You

50:29

know Garrett thinks

50:31

I'm a hypochondriac you are I'm not I have

50:33

a thing. I just have a lot of things

50:35

wrong with me We have

50:38

we've had in the patients we had in the hospital.

50:40

It's so big patients regularly get lost Yeah, I you

50:42

know They get they get shunted around to different wards

50:44

and I had a patient who got

50:46

completely lost for three weeks I didn't

50:48

see him and then I said he turned

50:51

up randomly and ophthalmology ward What he lost

50:53

in the hospital for three weeks. No, he knew

50:55

where he was. He was very happy No,

50:58

no, he was just chilling there getting his medication No

51:00

one was seeing him and because the

51:03

wards are so busy that people get rotated all the time

51:05

so they'll say oh gosh, there's no space in the medical

51:07

ward so they're gonna send you to the oh They

51:10

space in ophthalmology and ophthalmology school. So

51:12

they'll say I will send you to

51:14

orthopedic ward And so people get you

51:16

around all the time. So patients get

51:18

patients get lost But

51:21

don't know where they turn up Having

51:24

said that there's some really really beautiful things

51:26

that happen and anyone who's worked in a

51:28

public hospital at 7 a.m. Every morning every

51:31

single ward stops and Everyone

51:33

sings the nurses sing and

51:35

they sing these beautiful hymns

51:38

and it sounds like a professional choir And

51:40

it's one of the most magic things when

51:42

you're walking through Baraguanas, which has all these

51:44

different wards sort of sound like those terrible

51:46

songs That they all sang during Covid and

51:49

all like that was bad This is

51:51

just a thing that's always been a

51:54

baraguanas. It's not just a baraguanas. It's

51:56

amazing It's absolutely unbelievable. They you know,

51:58

generally driven by the nurses and

52:00

they will stop and they will sing

52:03

beautifully like a professional choir and they'll sing a hymn.

52:06

It changes from day to day. They'll

52:08

all stop. They'll take a moment. They'll

52:10

quietly say the Lord's Prayer or whatever.

52:13

And like whether you're religious or not,

52:15

it's just this moment where Barris stops

52:18

and this beautiful singing comes through and

52:20

it's such a unique and kind of

52:22

peaceful moment. And that's amazing.

52:24

I used it as a patient and I woke up

52:27

and obviously

52:29

I'd been woken up at 5 o'clock to

52:31

take the medication and everything but I'd fallen

52:33

asleep again. And when they started, it

52:36

changed my entire mindset for the

52:38

day. I'm

52:41

not a religious person and I find

52:43

them really quite beautiful. Just this kind

52:45

of all like settling ourselves. So that's

52:47

like everything's going to be okay. We're

52:49

in control. This thing happens every day.

52:51

It will happen and it'll be

52:53

fine. That's another thing about being a

52:55

doctor is that we have to remember also that the

52:58

doctor is not an automaton and

53:01

it must get to you sometimes. And you

53:03

must have had moments where you've had like

53:05

an incredibly busy day. I know doctors too.

53:08

Some of them work very long hours and

53:11

eventually you're just like going to

53:13

sit somewhere when you have five minutes to breathe and

53:16

you just go or you

53:18

start bawling or something because it's just

53:20

too much, right? You're dealing with like

53:23

life and death all the time. The

53:25

stakes are supremely high. It's not like,

53:27

yo, I would get the spreadsheet wrong

53:29

or I'm miscalculated by 20 cents on

53:31

this. My post didn't get enough.

53:34

Yeah. I mean, come on. Am

53:36

I right? Like sometimes it just happens. I think

53:38

that's why burnout rates and stuff are so high

53:40

because it is constant pressure, constant,

53:45

often constant sadness because you remember like everyone,

53:47

we don't really remember the patients who do

53:49

well. We carry with us the patients who

53:52

didn't do well, who we perhaps made a

53:54

mistake on because we're human beings or who

53:56

had a bad outcome. Those are

53:58

the ones we carry with us. and it's really

54:00

heavy and I think it's again it speaks

54:02

to the fact why so many doctors are

54:04

trying to get out. I

54:07

think in the UK, one in five

54:09

doctors is planning on leaving

54:11

the profession in the next five years. Fifty

54:13

percent of them want to cut down their

54:15

hours worldwide. We're really facing

54:17

a crisis of people saying, �I actually don't

54:19

want to do this anymore.� And again, there's

54:22

plenty of books in South Africa, the doctor

54:24

who walked away. Again,

54:27

I'm hoping my book will convince people that

54:29

medicine is a really worthwhile career, but

54:32

stuff doesn't need to change because at the moment, I

54:34

just think that we

54:36

expect too much and especially in a country like

54:38

South Africa and the public sector where doctors are

54:40

often the public face

54:42

of a failing system. And

54:44

that's a huge � when waiting times

54:46

are long and patients are upset, you're

54:49

the one they shout at, but

54:51

you're not responsible because the clinic is

54:54

too many people for your clinic. That's not

54:56

your fault. Do you think overall, is it

54:58

a two steps forward, one step back thing?

55:01

Is it progression slowly or is it? No.

55:06

I think that the way we

55:09

train and treat physicians and look

55:11

at healthcare personally, I think needs

55:14

some quite serious overhaul and it's not just

55:16

in the South African context. Worldwide

55:19

there's a real problem and if we keep going

55:21

down, in my opinion, the path we're going down,

55:23

I think we're going to face huge physician

55:25

shortages because I think people are just going to say nothing.

55:29

Yeah. Well, I'm going

55:31

to take the opportunity to say thank you to all

55:33

the doctors that do good work all

55:35

across South Africa and it's always a good idea to speak

55:37

to one or two of them and I'm thrilled about your

55:40

book. It is called Prescription

55:42

Ice Cream, a doctor's journey

55:44

to discover what matters by our

55:46

guest this morning, Dr. Alistair McAlpine.

55:48

It's very nice to see you

55:50

here. And someone says, if

55:52

Leanne actually had everything that she thinks she did,

55:54

she'd be dead. It's

55:56

a miracle I'm alive because I have all those things.

56:00

All right, well you're gonna get some consultation

56:02

time just after this with Dr. Alastair. Thank

56:06

you everybody. That's it for us for today. We will see

56:08

you tomorrow at 6am. Oh no, wait! Big

56:11

announcement. Oh yes. Da da

56:13

da da da da. Yeah, so what

56:15

we've decided to do is

56:17

we've decided to do Mondays,

56:19

Wednesdays, Fridays. So

56:21

starting from this week, I

56:23

know it's a bit of a shock to some people. Changing

56:26

your life again. 801, you know. Monday,

56:28

Wednesday, Friday for the show. We

56:30

will still be doing a Burning

56:32

Platform special on the podcast party

56:34

on Thursdays. So you still get

56:36

your four days a week, but the live

56:39

show Monday, Wednesday, Friday. You knew it was coming.

56:41

It was just a matter of time. I've made

56:43

the decision. What are you gonna do?

56:45

What are you gonna do? You can't chain me to

56:47

the chair. There we go. Get over

56:49

and have some ice cream. Right. Now

56:52

let me go and beat the producers. Have a happy day

56:54

everybody. We will see you on Wednesday. Ha.