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in AI make good business partners about

1:02

our future self-driving robo taxi What the

1:04

next generation of Siri Alexa Google looks

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like and a lot more find TED

1:09

tech on Apple podcasts Spotify or wherever

1:11

you listen Hello,

1:15

it's Helen Lewis and I'm dropping into this feed to

1:17

let you know about my new series for BBC Radio

1:20

4 Helen Lewis has left the

1:22

chat all about how instant messaging

1:24

changed the world For the

1:26

next 10 minutes. I'll be taking over this feed to give

1:28

you a taste of the podcast Will

1:31

you start by just introducing who you are

1:33

for the tape? My name is

1:35

Dominic Cummings I've worked off and on

1:37

in Westminster for 20 years

1:39

between doing other stuff in 20

1:45

I worked number 10 At

1:48

the covert inquiry last year Dominic

1:50

Cummings former chief of staff at number 10

1:52

had his private what's our messages made public

1:55

Something that many of us would find excruciating

1:59

but While he

2:01

takes a different view. My emotional

2:04

system is almost totally disengaged from

2:06

the SW world and the media ecosystem.

2:10

In the last decade instant messaging has made politics

2:12

faster, more informal and

2:14

more chaotic. Because

2:16

of WhatsApp we have a unique historical record

2:18

of what it felt like on the inside

2:21

dealing with the greatest crisis to hit Britain

2:23

since the Second World War. This

2:25

is a story of big decisions and

2:28

I should say bad language. Due

2:32

in large part to your own WhatsApps

2:34

Mr Cummings we're going to have to

2:36

broaden our language somewhat. The

2:38

interesting thing was how easy it

2:40

was for everybody to divert to

2:42

my bad language. And it's a

2:44

story that goes right to the

2:46

top. The piano himself was

2:48

a WhatsApp addict and there's only so much that

2:51

could be managed. Reflecting an enormous

2:53

change in how we're governed. WhatsApp

2:55

in the hands of Elon and Sam

2:57

Altman, highly productive, highly useful. WhatsApp

3:00

in the hands of Tory MPs and Boris Johnson,

3:03

intense first chaos. This

3:09

is Helen Lewis's last to chat. A

3:12

series about how instant messaging has changed the

3:14

world. Episode 2,

3:16

Hacks machines and Foxy Natasha. The

3:38

We'll come back to Dominic Cummings later. But

3:41

the story of how WhatsApp shaped British politics

3:43

doesn't start with the Covid inquiry. Instead

3:46

let's go back to the 2010s and

3:49

begin with Sam Coats, the ultimate

3:51

Westminster insider. He is

3:53

also, I think it's fair to say,

3:55

a WhatsApp fiend. His status

3:58

there reads, still going. with

4:00

a jaunty exclamation mark, as

4:02

if he's at the end of a long reporting shift. I

4:05

think it's been like that since 2016. I'm

4:08

here to talk to Sam about a WhatsApp group that

4:10

changed the course of British political history.

4:13

When did WhatsApp first become a

4:15

thing in British politics? So

4:18

WhatsApp was kind of around 2012-2013, but it just

4:20

didn't latch on. And

4:23

the first time I noticed

4:25

that actually it returned was after

4:27

the Brexit referendum. Tear

4:29

to dreams that

4:32

the dawn is breaking on an

4:34

independent, united kingdom. After

4:39

the Brexit referendum, suddenly there

4:42

was a intense

4:45

discipline amongst a group

4:47

of Conservative MPs, effectively

4:50

figures from the Tory right who

4:52

wanted to seize control of the

4:55

debate and the agenda after

4:57

that Brexit vote and steer the

4:59

country in the direction they wanted to take

5:01

it. This was a

5:04

European research group, or the ERG, Brexiteers

5:06

on the right of the Conservative party.

5:10

People like Suella Braberman,

5:12

Jacob Rees-Mogg, Ian Duncan-Smith,

5:14

who wanted a clean break with Brussels,

5:17

leaving the single market and customs union.

5:20

And they had their own WhatsApp group. The

5:22

issue here is that actually Scheckers leaves

5:24

us within the single market, leaves us

5:26

as a rule taker, leaves us de

5:28

facto subject to the European... About how

5:30

many of them were there? Because I

5:32

think we've all been in WhatsApp groups

5:34

that are quite unwieldy. Was this a big unwieldy

5:37

one? Are we talking a couple of dozen people? I

5:39

can tell you exactly, Helen, because I saw the group myself.

5:42

There were 59 members of this WhatsApp

5:44

group. And how it

5:46

would work is that they would

5:48

receive instructions from, for instance, Steve

5:50

Baker or other leadership figures in

5:53

the ERG, telling the whole group

5:55

to, for instance, issue quotes or go

5:58

on media to promote a particular... position

6:01

or to shut up. Let's

6:03

leave the European Union in a way of which

6:05

we can be proud. And that

6:07

means vision, ambition, determination,

6:09

resolve, courage. Steve

6:11

Baker might not have been the highest profile

6:13

Brexiteer, but he was one of the

6:15

most influential. And that's because

6:18

he was that figure, ultimate authority in

6:20

a group chat. The

6:22

admin. I don't think

6:24

we would end up with the hardest possible

6:27

Brexit without Steve Baker and his WhatsApp group.

6:29

And I know that it's going to sound a bit ridiculous, but this

6:31

was the group where Britain started

6:33

to be governed from. The

6:37

ELG WhatsApp group allowed members

6:40

to share information, coordinate

6:42

their strategy and apply pressure

6:44

to the Prime Minister Theresa May.

6:47

If she did something they didn't like, they could hit

6:49

the TV screens and brief the newspapers,

6:52

a blitzkrieg, a blue on blue

6:54

rebellion. She's lost the trust and

6:56

credibility of the House. That Prime

6:58

Minister resigned. And if Theresa May

7:00

did something they liked, all that

7:02

noise just went away. I've

7:06

talked in depth to people from

7:08

the ERG about the use of

7:10

the WhatsApp group in that period.

7:12

That discipline through silence was, I

7:14

think, the awesome power of that

7:16

WhatsApp group in that period. The

7:19

eyes to the right, 286. The

7:23

nose to the left, 344. So

7:27

the nose have it, the nose have

7:29

it. Unlock. Some members of

7:32

the ERG voted three times against Theresa May's

7:34

Brexit deal. They nicknamed themselves

7:37

the Spartans. I guess

7:39

they thought they had the discipline and courage

7:41

of ancient warriors. Less so

7:43

the skimpy battle armour and

7:45

chucking babies off cliffs. It

7:49

relied on a small number of

7:51

people, 30 or 40,

7:54

all acting collectively. And

7:57

discipline was enforced through this.

8:00

WhatsApp group for the ERG. I

8:03

was a Brexiteer and obviously there were a

8:05

lot of people on my side

8:07

concerned to make sure that the Brexit

8:09

legislation went through and was

8:12

fit for purpose. This is

8:14

Tim Lawton, a Conservative MP and a

8:16

member of that ERG WhatsApp group. So

8:19

certainly I think that was one of the

8:21

most influential early political WhatsApp groups I

8:23

was part of. He thinks the power

8:25

of the Brexiteers WhatsApp group

8:27

reflects the increasing speed of politics.

8:29

So when I arrived in 1997

8:32

you would get sackfuls of hard

8:35

copy posts and people

8:37

who wanted to lobby you on campaign sent

8:39

postcards and had to invest in a stamp.

8:42

With the advent of email that became much

8:44

easier and much cheaper. It's

8:46

worth remembering that in 2006 it

8:48

was announced to much fanfare that

8:51

Tony Blair had just acquired a

8:54

personal email address. His

8:56

deputy John Prescott was even worse. I think

8:58

it's called the internet isn't it or blogs or

9:00

something. I've only just got used to letters, John,

9:02

I haven't got into all this new technology. Today

9:05

though, if WhatsApp went down, British politics

9:08

would grind to a halt. The

9:11

names that politicians give these groups are often

9:13

funny. Evil Plutters. The

9:16

Order of the Phoenix. Nando's.

9:19

Tim Lawton told me he's in one

9:21

group called When Shall We Three Ski

9:23

Again? But their effect on

9:25

politics is profound. Can

9:29

you give me an idea then about how many WhatsApp messages

9:31

you receive in a day? Certainly

9:34

in three figures. The trouble is

9:36

that a lot of people like to use

9:38

these WhatsApp groups to tell us what a

9:40

very good lunch they've just had or where

9:42

the best bargain is on a cheap pint

9:44

this week or something like that, which is

9:46

helpful but not really key to

9:49

what we're supposed to be using them for. It

9:51

wasn't just the speed of WhatsApp that made it

9:53

such a powerful tool for the Brexiteers, but

9:55

its secrecy according to Sam Coates. The

9:58

whips can't see what you've put on WhatsApp.

10:01

None of what goes on in

10:03

the WhatsApp group is visible to

10:06

people outside it unless they so

10:08

choose. And so politics

10:10

has become more dangerous simply

10:13

as a result of a technological platform.

10:15

Dangerous? Perhaps that sounds a

10:17

bit strong, but not if you're a

10:19

conservative leader. It sounds fanciful

10:22

that a WhatsApp group can start to

10:24

undermine a Prime Minister to the point where

10:26

they are dethroned. But never

10:29

before has there been a

10:31

technological platform that is

10:33

so instant, so easily

10:36

tailorable to a group of

10:39

individuals who are like-minded and

10:41

can command the attention in

10:44

a way that WhatsApp does. So

10:47

Theresa May fell, Liz Truss fell,

10:50

Boris Johnson fell, three Prime Ministers brought

10:52

down by their own party. Would you

10:54

say three Prime Ministers brought down by

10:56

WhatsApp? Yes, I do put it down to WhatsApp.

10:59

I will shortly leave the job that it has

11:01

been the honour of my life to hold.

11:05

I do so with no ill will. I

11:25

will take a moment to tell you about

11:27

the new technology that is evolving fast, where

11:30

we bring you the latest innovations and biggest

11:32

ideas in tech. Tech

11:34

is evolving fast and it affects our lives, from

11:36

the metaverse to the watches on

11:38

our wrists. You'll learn why people in

11:40

AI make good business partners, about our

11:42

future self-driving robotaxi, what

11:45

the next generation of Siri, Alexa, Google looks like, and

11:48

a lot more.