0:00

What our team! It's Episode Three Hundred

0:02

and Sixty Nine of The Genius Life.

0:05

Genius! Matter.

0:14

What? The

0:17

Genius lush. Was

0:22

going on. Everybody will come back to another

0:24

episode of the show. I'm your Host Max

0:26

Luke of your A Filmmaker held in Science

0:29

Journalist in New York Times bestselling author of

0:31

dedicate My Life to unraveling the science behind

0:33

our choices including what we eat and how

0:35

we live, affect our cognitive and physical performance,

0:37

how we feel our health span and are

0:39

risk for disease. This podcast is all about

0:41

How To Live Now Double State which I

0:43

called Living Like a Genius on today's episode

0:46

of the show. I'm super excited to welcome

0:48

back Angelo Keeley After a series of traumatic

0:50

events during his young adult years, Angelo. Dove

0:52

headfirst into nutrition research with the

0:54

dream of building the healthiest and

0:56

most inspiring work culture at the

0:58

heart of a fast growing well

1:00

as industry. Angela voted Key, a

1:02

company that offers premium research backed

1:05

supplements and foods, the sport along

1:07

and Active Life in Twenty Seventeen

1:09

in Boulder, Colorado. As a fan

1:11

customer and now partner of Key

1:13

on, I want to have Angelo

1:15

back on the show to discuss

1:17

the value of protein and essential

1:19

amino acid supplements to the human

1:21

body. particularly. And optimizing body composition and

1:23

metabolic health. Or in touch on the

1:26

misconception that Americans are already consuming too

1:28

much protein. And when you talk about

1:30

the importance of protein quality and digestion,

1:33

we're also gonna talk about how essential

1:35

amino acid supplements can aid and weight

1:37

loss while hoping to preserve muscle mass.

1:39

This is especially topical given a recent

1:42

Twenty Twenty Three position stand article from

1:44

the International Society of Sports and Trish

1:46

in author by For and Oh et

1:49

al touching on the potential benefits of

1:51

essential amino acid. Supplements We'll delve into

1:53

the role of Whole Foods vs.

1:55

Supplements and helping to meet ones

1:57

daily essential amino acid needs. And

1:59

Angeles. The to provide insight into

2:01

timing and dosage. Overall, whether you

2:03

are interested in building or preserving

2:05

muscle and or losing fat Izumi

2:07

episode that you're going on, pay

2:09

close attention to And as I've

2:12

mentioned, Qian is a partner of

2:14

the show so I do have

2:16

a financial relationship with the companies.

2:18

That being said, this interview is

2:20

as evidence based as you can

2:22

get and while it's no doubt

2:24

always better to get your protein

2:26

from whole food sources when cost,

2:28

convenience, variety and special use. Cases

2:30

are factored in. There is absolutely a

2:32

role for supplementation, so listen through all

2:35

the way to the end and share

2:37

this episode of friends and loved Ones

2:39

that you think may benefit from it.

2:41

I don't know if you'll notice, but

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3:43

a note All that out of the

3:45

way. Here's my conversation with the great

3:48

Angelo Keeley of see on discussing all

3:50

things protein, protein supplementation, essential amino acid

3:52

supplementation, and so much more. Here we

3:54

go Angelo Keeley, What Are welcome back

3:56

to the show in in this time

3:58

Allies: Max Gonna be here. The Horse

4:00

we'd be in the real studio. Yeah

4:02

man was great to have you. We

4:04

love working with you guys over at

4:07

Qian. I'm a huge fan of the

4:09

protein. I take your central me knows

4:11

all the time so I'm very excited

4:13

to I do a deep dive into

4:15

the science of protein, optimizing, body composition,

4:17

the role of essential amino acid supplements,

4:19

arm and all this. So yes the

4:22

psych dive right in are still at

4:24

yeah I guess other top what is

4:26

the value of protein and essential amino

4:28

acids to the human body? Specifically, I

4:30

guess optimizing body composition and metabolic. or.

4:33

I. Think the best place to start as

4:35

just understanding what the role of protein is

4:38

and diet. So they're all carbohydrates and Sat

4:40

primarily. Obviously there's there's different. the bodies complex

4:42

is like going on but the primary role

4:44

as as fuel. So we consume carbohydrates, we

4:47

consume fat be convert them into atp it

4:49

allows us to move her body around. Protein

4:51

can be used for that but it's not

4:53

it's primary role which actually ah had a

4:56

lot to do with body composition which I

4:58

think we can get into later but that

5:00

the primary role of protein is actually for

5:02

to be broken. Down into it's constituent amino

5:05

acids, the at the digestive tract and then

5:07

for those amino acids to go into the

5:09

blood. And when they go into the blood

5:11

they don't get prioritized as fuel. Instead actually

5:14

they get prioritize to help you rebuild the

5:16

proteins. Your body sets everything from your skin

5:18

to your hair to your vital organs to

5:20

your muscle. And the reason for that is

5:22

because the way that proteins function our body

5:25

is that they have a certain half life.

5:27

you might say, like they they only last

5:29

for sigma times and the nerve damage to

5:31

no longer a functional they once were. And

5:34

so they break apart into little

5:36

amino acids. Some bp out and

5:38

you need thus more amino acids

5:40

and thus more protein. Help rebuild

5:42

does proteins in your body? So

5:44

it's a the role of proteins

5:46

very different than carbohydrates in fact.

5:49

that said, if you're not eating

5:51

enough. you will

5:53

actually convert more of the protein

5:55

into an energy source instead because

5:57

your body's that prioritizing like building

5:59

and sustaining muscle, right? Instead it's

6:01

focused on just trying to survive.

6:04

So with that kind

6:06

of fundamental understanding, then when

6:08

you think about when you consume protein

6:10

versus say consuming carbohydrates, there's actually a larger

6:13

impact on your metabolism than there is just

6:15

from the carbohydrates. I don't wanna overstate what

6:17

it is, but like if you consume

6:19

protein, there's energy to break it down into

6:21

the amino acids, and there's actually energy consumed

6:24

to simply use those amino

6:26

acids to help rebuild the proteins in your

6:28

body. Whereas there's not as much energy expended

6:30

in just breaking down the carbohydrates and turning

6:32

them into fuel. Is this what's called the

6:34

thermic effect of feeding? That is, yes. Yeah,

6:37

and it's way higher for protein than it

6:39

is for. Way higher for protein. So actually

6:41

the value of a protein calorie are actually

6:43

how many calories you actually, the

6:46

real impact of the calories from protein is less

6:48

than the calories you would get from carbs, even

6:50

though they're approximately four calories per

6:52

gram each. And also there's this phenomena

6:54

known as rabbit starvation, right?

6:56

Like if all you did was eat protein,

6:58

it's such a poor energy source that you

7:01

essentially starve to death, would you not? If

7:03

all you did was subsist on super lean

7:05

protein and little else. You know, I'm not

7:07

actually as familiar with this, with the studies

7:10

behind this, but

7:12

it does make sense that fundamentally you literally

7:14

would not have enough calories to keep supporting

7:16

your body. On the flip side,

7:18

there's been studies actually once they did with the

7:20

people that were fasting in Northern Ireland and trying to

7:23

understand at what point they would actually die. And

7:25

the point at which they started to die

7:27

was not from the total deprivation

7:29

of calories, it was actually from the deprivation of

7:32

protein. And this doesn't mean that one is true

7:34

and the other is not. What actually would start

7:36

to happen is that when you

7:38

deprive yourself of protein, what happens is

7:40

your body prioritizes breaking down your lean

7:43

muscle tissue to supply your heart, your

7:45

liver, your kidneys, all these other organs

7:47

with the amino acids that they need.

7:50

So you can only deprive yourself of protein

7:52

for so long until you literally have no muscle tissue left.

7:55

And to where at some point there

7:57

literally are no amino acids available to

7:59

help. rebuild your vital organs, et

8:01

cetera. And it was actually when

8:03

they noticed that the EAA concentrations

8:05

in the blood plasma itself had

8:07

dipped below normal because there was

8:09

no more muscle tissue to break

8:11

down that people started to die.

8:13

Wow, well protein is an essential

8:15

nutrient and relative to our daily

8:17

requirement for fats

8:20

and carbohydrates, and there actually is no

8:22

such thing as an essential carbohydrate, but

8:24

relative even to our daily requirement for

8:26

fat, I mean, we need way more

8:28

protein on a daily basis. Like it's

8:30

totally essential. What do you

8:32

make of these headlines? There was an article in Vox

8:34

that came out recently and went super viral. I don't

8:37

know if you saw it, but the headline was that

8:39

Americans are already eating way too much protein. This obsession

8:41

with protein is making us sick. Apparently

8:43

by the way, Vox is funded by animal

8:45

activist groups. But what

8:47

do you make of that assertion that everybody's already

8:49

consuming too much protein? I think

8:52

I always tend towards nuance over like these kind

8:54

of like sound bite type things. So what are

8:56

they even talking about? How much protein are people

8:58

eating? When they say too much, what does that

9:00

really mean? Instead, why don't we

9:02

actually have more like substantive conversations? It does,

9:04

it sounds like it's some kind of stimulating,

9:07

sensationalist piece that's kind of meaningless. I

9:09

wouldn't really even pay attention to it.

9:11

I'd say like, what

9:13

does the science say after decades

9:15

and decades of research about how much

9:18

protein we really need, and fundamentally actually

9:20

how much essential amino acids we need,

9:22

which validates the quality of

9:24

the proteins that we eat on a daily

9:26

basis just to maintain basic functioning, and then

9:28

how much more do we need at different

9:30

stages of life? If we're growing, if we're

9:33

pregnant, if we are trying

9:36

to lose fat but maintain our muscle,

9:38

if we're getting older and our ability

9:40

to break down proteins and synthesize new

9:42

proteins is reduced, if we're training really

9:44

hard, there's a lot of different cases

9:47

and instances of that. So I'm imagining a

9:49

blanket article, it's like, Americans are eating too

9:51

much protein is probably not really worth spending

9:53

your time reading. Yeah, I would agree with

9:55

that. Definitely more than a little bit of

9:58

bias there. So what... So

10:00

walk us through the difference then between whole

10:02

food proteins that you might ingest by way

10:04

of beef, fish, chicken, eggs, tofu,

10:08

and then protein supplements like whey protein,

10:10

which I happen to be a huge

10:12

fan of, even Casey and I'm a

10:14

huge fan of, and

10:17

then essential amino acid supplements.

10:20

So whole food protein is exactly what you think

10:23

it is. It's like a piece of meat, right,

10:25

or tofu or chicken. That

10:27

said, in a piece of,

10:30

say, meat, they differ

10:32

from each other in terms of what

10:34

their composition is. The

10:36

number one step is just identifying how much

10:39

protein is there relevant to other things like

10:41

carbohydrates and fats. There's going to be leaner

10:43

proteins, meaning ones that don't have as much fat,

10:45

but you can also think about it when you're

10:47

evaluating plant proteins. While it may seem like it's

10:50

lean, it could actually be packed full

10:52

of carbohydrates and you could be getting

10:54

a lot less protein per gram of

10:56

the total protein source that you're eating.

10:58

So like beans would be an example of that, where

11:00

you're actually getting a ton of starch calories alongside whatever

11:03

protein it may contain. Exactly. So

11:05

that's the first thing I think to understand when you're

11:07

even just comparing proteins to themselves, whole food proteins. Then

11:10

you need to look at actually what is

11:13

the composition of those proteins themselves in terms

11:15

of the amino acid profiles. So

11:17

what we know now, and it's become much more apparent over

11:19

the last 25 years, is that what

11:22

really makes a quality protein is the

11:24

concentration of essential amino acids, which are

11:26

the part of the protein that make

11:28

it an essential macronutrient. And that's because

11:30

those amino acids you have to eat,

11:33

your body can't synthesize them. The

11:35

other thing that we've uncovered about these

11:37

essential amino acids over the last 25

11:39

years is that they're also the active

11:41

component of the protein that actually stimulates

11:43

muscle protein synthesis. So the other

11:45

amino acids can be used to help build the

11:48

proteins in your body, but they won't communicate to

11:50

your body to say like, hey, let's start building

11:52

new proteins. Let's take the older ones that aren't

11:54

working as well and rebuild them. Let's build more

11:56

new muscle tissue. They don't do that. Only the

11:58

essential amino acids do that. So then you'd

12:00

want to be comparing the quality of the proteins

12:03

themselves to each other based off that, not just

12:05

the density, meaning how much protein is there per

12:07

gram, but also what's the quality

12:09

of those essential amino acids in them. And when

12:11

you look at that, basically animal

12:13

proteins tend to be way higher in these

12:15

essential amino acids and thus they're much more

12:17

potent. That doesn't mean that you couldn't only

12:20

eat plant proteins, but you'd have to eat

12:22

a lot more of them because they're simply

12:24

not as potent. They have less

12:26

protein per gram and the actual protein

12:28

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13:59

guys. So aside from the concentration

14:02

of these essential amino acids

14:06

relative to other nutrients, are we

14:08

talking about bioavailability, digestibility? That's

14:11

when you get into the difference between –

14:13

well, so that is very true in terms

14:15

of whole food proteins themselves. So also in

14:18

this case, it tends to be that animal

14:20

proteins are more digestible, and the amino acids

14:22

inside of them are actually more available than

14:24

the plant proteins themselves. But

14:27

where this becomes very interesting as well is actually when

14:29

you start to talk about protein supplements. So

14:32

oftentimes, I think people just think, oh, I'm not getting enough

14:34

protein, so I'm going to take some protein powder. And

14:38

we'll just use the example of whey protein or

14:40

whey protein isolate because it is

14:42

the most superior protein powder that you could

14:44

consume in terms of the

14:47

concentration of the protein per gram

14:49

and the quality of the protein

14:51

in terms of the essential amino

14:53

acid profile. Now,

14:55

what makes it really interesting, though, is that

14:57

the actual protein powder itself, 20 grams of

15:00

protein from a whey protein isolate, is

15:02

much more significant than 20 grams of

15:04

protein from a piece of steak in

15:07

terms of its impact on muscle protein synthesis.

15:09

Why's that? The reason for that

15:11

is because it is so much more immediately bioavailable.

15:15

The actual protein and the essential amino

15:17

acids in that whey protein isolate, we

15:19

believe because there's none of the nonessential

15:21

amino acids, which honestly aren't—sorry, there are

15:23

the nonessential amino acids. There are none

15:25

of the other carbohydrates,

15:28

fats, etc., especially in something like

15:30

a whey protein isolate. And

15:32

our body's ability to break it down

15:35

and the actual peak levels of

15:37

the EAA is in our blood. So we eat

15:40

the protein, our body breaks it down, we get

15:42

the essential amino acids. They enter our blood. They

15:44

enter our blood much faster, and they hit

15:46

these peak concentrations higher. So

15:49

they stimulate a lot more muscle protein synthesis

15:51

than, say, just a piece of meat will.

15:53

And I think this is oftentimes overlooked, like

15:56

even by big endorsers of people

15:58

who consume protein. that

16:00

a protein powder supplement is

16:03

distinctly different actually than the whole food protein

16:05

itself. Now that said, it's also

16:07

isolated, it's a supplement, so it doesn't have the

16:09

amount of minerals and

16:12

other types of micronutrients that a piece of

16:14

steak would have. So you can't say that

16:16

it's the equivalent in terms of an actual

16:18

nutrient profile, but in terms

16:20

of its impact on muscle, in terms of

16:23

its impact on muscle protein synthesis, and actually

16:25

whole body protein synthesis, the rebuilding of all

16:27

the proteins throughout your body, the

16:30

weight protein isolate has a much more

16:32

significant impact than the meat itself. Now

16:35

here's something else really interesting, and we were talking about this

16:37

right before the show, anyone who really wants

16:39

to geek out on this, I encourage you to look

16:41

into David Church. He's kind of like

16:43

one of the leaders in the field in a lot of

16:46

these publications, and there's a 2020 article on nutrients, which

16:49

is the beginning of a lot of this

16:52

more contemporary research that basically compared a

16:54

mixed meal, so it's like 70 grams

16:56

of beef protein as part

16:59

of a mixed meal, versus 30 grams

17:01

of beef protein on its own. So no

17:04

other foods consumed with it, versus 20

17:06

grams of whey protein isolate, versus a certain amount

17:08

of essential amino acids, which we can get to

17:11

later, and actually the 30 grams

17:13

of the whole food beef protein had

17:15

a greater impact on muscle protein synthesis

17:17

than the 70 grams

17:20

of beef when it was consumed with other foods.

17:22

Fascinating, why do you think that is? Because

17:25

it was able to be broken down by

17:27

the digestive system, and the essential amino acids

17:29

were more quickly available to the blood and

17:31

thus to the muscle to stimulate new protein

17:33

synthesis. And so then when

17:35

you go to the next step to the whey

17:37

protein isolate, it's much more significant than the beef

17:39

protein or the whole food meal. I

17:42

wanna pause here and just say, in no way

17:44

am I endorsing don't eat these whole foods. I

17:46

would say eat whole food, nutrient

17:49

dense foods that are complex.

17:51

They have a lot of other things going

17:53

on and then other than just how much

17:55

muscle protein synthesis or whole body protein synthesis

17:57

do I get. And There are

17:59

also. Delicious in their part of a

18:01

good quality life. And when you look

18:03

at the science the way protein Iceland

18:06

has a much more significant impact then

18:08

these whole food proteins and especially a

18:10

mixed meal whole food protein always so

18:12

rapidly absorbed in adjusted that's a match

18:14

fundamentally at yeah so I when you're

18:16

eating like seventy grams of beef as

18:18

part of a mix meal with fat

18:20

and carbohydrate like. Even

18:22

though the ball as a protein is

18:24

a lot is larger, you're a mean.

18:26

there's all. There are all of these

18:28

other factors that are likely slowing down

18:30

digest in, but there's But maybe there's

18:32

some benefits extending out that I'm I

18:35

guess infusion of amino acids over the

18:37

longer term ah, I'm but in terms

18:39

of that that a spike that had

18:41

been that acute rapid I'm. Availability

18:43

of essential amino acids? I'm It's

18:45

like he can't really beat a

18:47

protein in isolation suppose. Yeah, I

18:49

think. You. Know it's an interesting argument

18:51

around is your benefit to more extended release. It's

18:54

like the core. Argument. And theory

18:56

behind taking a casein vs. away pregnant

18:58

for many people. That said, they've done

19:00

multiple studies where they actually had people

19:02

take multiple doses of the way protein

19:04

versus the casein and you end up

19:06

having have a similar response Montmelo if

19:08

you, if you don't mountain these different

19:10

ways. On top

19:12

of that, I think. With.

19:16

Another thing the research has shown more

19:18

recently is that what's most important is

19:21

that the spike in muscle protein synthesis

19:23

last like him, more than three hours.

19:25

And that's why fundamentally we can talk

19:27

more about later. But like, like Bcs

19:30

in isolation have been proven to be

19:32

so ineffective and a waste of money.

19:34

The crate despite for like half an

19:36

hour or an hour and they decrease

19:38

rapidly because there's not enough of the

19:41

other essential amino acids available to sustain

19:43

the muscle protein synthesis for hours. Soon

19:45

You actually. Look at the grass and

19:47

can share with you afterwards or and

19:49

should articles with yeah you can actually

19:52

see how much the next meal beef

19:54

protein stimulate muscle protein synthesis over this

19:56

extended period of time and basic what

19:58

you see as this law. Hunger kind

20:00

of slower, slow and then and then

20:02

decrease. but actually when you compare it

20:04

to the way protein isolates, you do

20:07

get this much bigger spike, but then

20:09

even the lower part of the slope

20:11

doesn't decrease that much more than the

20:13

whole mixed meal. Lot. Of the beef.

20:15

so it's it's not you're getting. That

20:18

much more benefit from it. From a

20:20

pure muscle protein synthesis perspective. A get

20:22

off: it's not like, ah, There's.

20:24

A lot of other good things in

20:27

the beef. yeah no of course of

20:29

know of course but it's like you're

20:31

to in total body muscle A cruel

20:33

Is this? it's the net I guess.

20:35

Result. Of that of that dynamic

20:37

process of like muscle protein synthesis vs.

20:40

muscle protein breakdown and you need a

20:42

bullet The protein you're in net muscle

20:44

protein synthesis but then inevitably after a

20:46

certain period of time i guess three

20:48

hours then you end up coming back

20:50

to base line and do when you

20:53

know when those per those that when

20:55

that peripheral essential amino acid availability ceases

20:57

to when those essential amino acids cease

20:59

to be available than you enter that

21:01

muscle protein breakdown state. So that's when

21:04

it becomes really And that's when. Like

21:06

this: like protein distribution throughout the day

21:08

and having even protein distribution and making

21:10

sure that you. Personally, Always

21:12

have. Amino acids available

21:15

for that, you know. muscle

21:17

protein, synthetic effect, Becomes.

21:19

Really important with regard to

21:21

maintaining. Certainly. Maintaining

21:23

but ultimately building muscle. I

21:25

think that's especially true in context where the

21:28

people are less active or they're older,

21:30

because again, we're only. we're going again

21:32

to like such nitty gritty signs around

21:34

us. and I think we'd sit there So

21:36

many different studied in so many different

21:38

ways to look at it. But if

21:40

I'm like crushing it with resistance training, I'm

21:42

just doing liked lots of intense resistance

21:44

training, and I'm timing my protein intake

21:46

perfectly before and after it, and then on

21:49

and then. In addition to that, I

21:51

go through some periods of fasting for

21:53

multiple hours. through the

21:55

combinations us to activities why ultimately be

21:57

why have like net muscle protein

21:59

since Well, I need to be building more

22:01

muscle than I lost because I trained really hard

22:04

and then I fasted I mean in

22:06

some way you probably will like it'll depend on

22:09

how much training you're doing and how much protein

22:11

you're eating But I

22:13

think the simpler way of thinking about it is

22:15

yeah If you do just eat protein every

22:17

few hours Then like you don't have to like

22:19

worry about it eat protein every few hours and

22:22

you generally do some resistance training Like you're

22:24

gonna you're gonna live a long vibrant happy life

22:26

with yeah with muscle That

22:29

said I think as you get older It

22:31

becomes that much more difficult to digest protein

22:34

It becomes that much more difficult for your

22:36

body to want to build muscle. It's true

22:38

for men and women It's really significant for

22:40

women Basically

22:42

perimenopausal and postmenopausal women So

22:45

in those contexts it becomes that much more

22:47

important to not mess around so not like

22:49

skip protein meals So

22:52

yeah, I think that there's nuance in these. Yeah, definitely

22:54

while we're on the topic of whey protein What

22:57

about for people that have? That

22:59

claim to have sensitivity to dairy Some

23:02

people say that you know, even even without an

23:05

overt dairy sensitivity They

23:07

sometimes have difficulty digesting whey

23:09

protein. What is your take

23:11

on that? I'm

23:14

obviously not that person so I don't know

23:16

their their Specific situation I

23:18

would say the vast majority of people I

23:20

know the thought that was the case and

23:22

then they tried a whey protein Isolate which

23:24

is virtually removing all of the lactose their

23:27

sensitivities are no longer there And I'm personally

23:29

someone who I try not to eat too

23:31

much dairy Like especially the quality of dairies

23:33

I can really feel the impact and I

23:35

have no negative side effects from taking away

23:38

protein isolate nor do those anyone I know

23:41

Yeah, and also sometimes it's not even though the

23:43

protein itself, but the additives in the

23:45

product, right? You Guys

23:49

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25:15

fam. So like products, like, you

25:18

know, it's comparing apples to oranges

25:20

sometimes, comparing whey proteins to whey

25:22

proteins. Like there are, in some

25:25

whey protein products, there's like myriad

25:28

ingredients when ultimately, like one of the

25:30

things that I love about Keon is that it's essentially, you

25:32

know, you get a little bit of flavoring,

25:34

you get some maybe sunflower lecithin, or you

25:37

know, as like a,

25:39

I don't know what it is, like an emulsifier,

25:41

and then the whey protein itself. But a quality

25:44

whey protein doesn't need to have more than three

25:46

or four ingredients in it. It doesn't really need

25:48

anything else. Yeah. I mean, to get

25:50

the benefits from it. All the other things are

25:52

somehow just additives, most

25:55

likely to somehow improve the production

25:57

process. Because they're trying to

25:59

mass produce. something and they're maybe trying to

26:01

work with older raw ingredients. They're

26:04

trying to work with product that doesn't taste

26:06

as good initially. It's like a lower quality

26:08

protein. You need to mask it. You need

26:10

to get it to bind in different ways.

26:12

If you're seeing tons of ingredients on a

26:14

product like that, that's most likely

26:16

why. It's a

26:18

lower quality initial ingredient mass produced and

26:20

thus it's a necessity from the production

26:22

standpoint to try to have to add

26:24

all this other stuff. We do

26:26

a lot of education on this show

26:29

about helping people better identify ultra-processed

26:31

foods compared to minimally processed foods. I

26:33

often get asked, well, isn't whey protein

26:36

an ultra-processed food? It's

26:39

not like people are typically making whey

26:41

in their own kitchens, although that can be done. But

26:44

isn't whey protein? It's basically

26:47

just a byproduct essentially

26:49

of the cheese making industry. We actually have

26:51

been making whey protein, not necessarily consuming whey

26:53

protein as a supplement, but we've been making

26:55

whey protein for millennia at this point. We've

26:57

been making whey protein for thousands of years

27:00

and we've been consuming it at least for

27:02

a few hundred years. It's

27:05

not like some new thing. I really

27:07

like this question about we're

27:11

saying we value eating whole

27:13

less processed foods, yet

27:16

you're also endorsing or speaking about how you

27:18

take this protein powder. Don't those seem like

27:20

those are contradictory to each other. I think

27:22

the point that I would highlight here is

27:26

what is the purpose of that supplement?

27:29

If I had a highly processed Oreo,

27:32

it has almost no nutritive value

27:34

for me. It's got chemicals in it to

27:36

stabilize it. It's very high in sugar. It's

27:38

very high in junk fats. It doesn't really

27:40

have any protein. Basically,

27:43

I am consuming this thing that's laden with

27:45

chemicals and has no nutritive value. Yeah,

27:47

why would I do that? That doesn't make any

27:49

sense. That makes more sense to have some fruit.

27:53

If I really want, I'm trying to tame my

27:55

sweet tooth or get a little treat, have some

27:57

raspberries. Those actually grow. from

28:00

the earth, they do have nutrient value, they're

28:02

full of different types of micronutrients. It makes

28:04

sense to consume it. On

28:07

the other hand, when you look at something like a

28:09

whey protein, a whey protein is

28:11

basically separated from the milk solids in

28:14

the cheese-making process. And so that's just

28:16

whey protein concentrate. And then when you

28:18

get to the whey protein isolate, they

28:20

just separate further basically the weight of

28:22

the different molecules, but it's through a

28:24

cold filtration process. They're not adding a

28:27

bunch of chemicals or anything. It's literally

28:29

through filtering. They're able to separate out

28:31

the lactose, basically separate out the sugars and the

28:33

carbs from the product. So yes,

28:36

it's filtered down, but it's not some

28:38

like bizarre, weird

28:40

chemical substance, and it has real nutritive

28:43

value. And we just showed that it

28:45

can actually have more impact on me

28:47

getting more muscle protein synthesis and having

28:49

a better, longer life than

28:51

not taking it. So

28:54

it seems like a very different thing

28:56

in conversation than an Oreo. Yeah, an

28:58

Oreo is just pure energy. And literally

29:00

like nobody is walking around energy deficient

29:03

in 2024 in the Western world. I

29:06

mean, we- That's a good catch. I said

29:08

no nutritive value in it. It has energy. It has

29:10

energy. It does have energy. It has energy, but we

29:12

are, we're living, most of us are living in a

29:14

state of energy toxicity. When you look at statistics regarding

29:16

metabolic health in this country, about fewer than 10% of

29:19

people are, essentially

29:24

metabolically healthy, 90%

29:26

plus have at least one indicator

29:28

of metabolic

29:30

distress. And so

29:32

yeah, I mean, energy is not something that we

29:35

are wanting for as a culture. It's really, I

29:37

mean, it's protein that I think people would be

29:39

well-served to consuming more of. I

29:41

do wanna get into essential amino acids, super, super

29:43

important, but while we're on the topic of whey

29:46

protein, any back of the napkin like ways to

29:48

interpret labels, just for people, I personally use Keon.

29:50

I love Keon. I've used

29:52

you guys for

29:54

years at this point, but

29:56

just generally how do people best interpret whey protein

29:59

labels and the like? to know that they're getting a quality

30:01

product. I think the

30:03

first thing to look for is the ingredient

30:05

panel. So just look at the ingredient panel

30:07

and see what's on it. Typically

30:09

you're going to see like a whey protein

30:12

isolate or whey protein concentrate. If there's something

30:14

like a sunflower lecithin in it, that's very

30:16

normal. It's almost only the

30:18

case in which you're going to be able to get the

30:20

product and it's part of the processing, but it's a very

30:23

safe ingredient. And then after that,

30:25

look at the flavoring. Like if you're concerned

30:27

about flavoring, if you're someone who doesn't like

30:29

artificial flavors, artificial sugars, then artificial

30:31

sweeteners, then just look for that. If

30:35

you're not worried about it, then don't worry about

30:37

it. And then there really shouldn't be anything else

30:39

in it on the ingredient panel. One other thing

30:42

is salt. We actually put a Himalayan salt in

30:44

ours and it is for flavor. That's why it's

30:46

in there because if you've ever had a

30:48

chocolate chip cookie with a little bit of salt on it,

30:51

makes it a little bit better. It does. Yeah.

30:53

And then after that, really it's looking

30:55

at the nutrition facts panel. So it's,

30:58

you know, what exactly is in it. If

31:00

there are, if it's a whey protein isolate,

31:02

you're naturally going to see basically virtually no

31:04

carbs. You're going to see less than one

31:07

gram of carbs and you're not really going

31:09

to see any fat and you should see

31:11

a pretty high proportion of protein. One

31:14

thing that does come up though, even on super kind

31:16

of clean, very minimal product, like a key on

31:19

clean protein, is the total amount of product

31:21

in the bag is different than what is

31:23

like in the scoop. So like whey it

31:25

says, I can't remember exactly, it's like 23

31:28

grams, but it's 20 grams of protein. So

31:30

like what is the rest? Well, there are

31:32

other minerals that help make up this total,

31:36

the total powder that's not only the pure

31:38

protein. And so that's normal. So I wouldn't

31:40

worry about that if the actual difference of

31:42

the pure volume is different by like 10%.

31:45

That's actually a natural part of just like

31:47

how the total milk solids basically come together.

31:51

And then I just

31:53

would not really accept anything else. Look for

31:55

it to be really clean and simple. You

31:57

don't need anything else. Yeah. I

32:00

know sometimes you'll see whey proteins that come from

32:02

grass-fed cows. You'll see them And

32:05

then and then there are alternatives that don't is

32:08

that I mean I value that you you

32:10

guys source your protein from grass-fed cows I

32:12

think it says it speaks to

32:14

you know animal welfare and the fact

32:16

that cat You know these cows are

32:18

likely not going through an industrial, you

32:20

know CAFO system But

32:22

does that have any significant bearing on the

32:24

nutritional value of the protein? This

32:27

is disputed so I'll just I'm out quite

32:29

simply say that it's disputed I don't think

32:31

there's a really clear answer to it What

32:35

I can tell you is that from someone who? Sampled

32:38

like tens and tens and tens of proteins and

32:40

tried to make a decision about this But what

32:42

direction we were going to go in and looking

32:44

at all the research and trying to decide Should

32:46

we only go grass-fed should we not and particularly

32:48

in an isolate form right because they're actually Processing

32:52

down the protein and then isolating the protein

32:54

itself Which could potentially be different than say

32:56

the impact of that protein as a whole

32:58

food in a piece of meat, right? There

33:00

could be other things in that meat that

33:03

I'm getting if it's not grass-fed versus it

33:05

being grass-fed Or a lot of that could

33:07

be processed out via simply the filtration process

33:09

of getting to a whey protein isolate What

33:13

I can say is the flavor profile is significantly different

33:16

If you get the key on clean protein

33:18

unflavored it basically tastes like milk You can

33:20

mix it with water and it's almost

33:22

has no offensive flavor if

33:24

you get lower quality proteins They taste

33:26

pretty gross like if you get an

33:28

unflavored one Which is another reason why

33:30

they have to use like artificial stronger

33:32

artificial flavors stronger sweeteners because you're basically

33:34

trying to cover up the taste profile

33:37

of a Much

33:39

grosser tasting product, so I

33:41

think What's likely to

33:43

happen if you go for a higher quality

33:45

protein powder is you are getting something that's

33:47

going to taste better and that ultimately? Has

33:50

a cleaner a cleaner profile

33:52

hmm. Yeah, which is important. Yes

33:54

for for sustaining for sustainability, right?

33:56

Yeah Yeah, no,

33:59

I I appreciate that. And I agree,

34:01

I agree, though, too, with just I think

34:03

the overall stance of trying to move in

34:05

a more regenerative farming approach to like how

34:08

we work with the earth and how we

34:10

eat and what we're doing. And it seems

34:12

more like there's

34:14

there are more sustainable approaches through grass

34:16

fed type approaches. Yeah. This

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35:46

mean, typically when I think about the value of grass

35:48

fed I think about it in terms of the fatty

35:50

acid profile, among other things, but

35:52

primarily the fatty acid profile of the

35:55

meat that I'm eating. So like a great the you know,

35:57

the fat on a grass fed rib eye is going to

35:59

be fairly dramatically

36:01

different than the fat

36:05

of a conventionally produced ribeye.

36:08

First of all, we know that animals tend to store toxins in

36:11

their fat tissue. We know

36:13

that there's a higher proportion of saturated

36:15

fat in the conventionally produced ribeye, that

36:17

there's less stearic acid, which we know

36:19

is neutral, if not beneficial, from a

36:21

cardiovascular lipid standpoint. We

36:24

know that grass-fed animals are aggregating all

36:26

of these important phytochemicals that have antioxidant

36:28

value in their fat. That's why the

36:30

fat of a grass-fed cow of

36:33

grass-fed beef actually looks different, typically has more

36:35

of a hue, which

36:38

is attributed, I think, to at least

36:40

some degree of presence of

36:42

carotenoids and compounds like that. But

36:45

yeah, it's interesting to know that that actually

36:47

also changes the flavor profile of dairy. Yeah,

36:50

I think what you just brought up is the perfect case of why

36:52

it's so much more important when you're

36:54

eating whole meat. If you're actually choosing between two

36:56

different cuts of beef, the

36:58

grass-fed option is naturally gonna be, it's gonna be quite

37:00

a significant difference. Super interesting.

37:03

Okay, so let's talk essential amino

37:05

acid supplements. Because

37:07

I know that there is a lot of, I

37:10

mean, I guess it's a fairly controversial topic, but

37:12

there was very recently a wonderful

37:14

review paper put out, and consensus

37:16

statement put out by the

37:19

International Society of Sports Nutrition. And

37:21

they seem to shine a very

37:23

favorable light on these supplements. And you guys

37:25

produce them, I use them. Tell

37:28

me about essential amino acid supplements, the role

37:30

that they can potentially play in one's

37:32

diet. So

37:36

this position paper by the ISSN was

37:38

I think such a big deal, because

37:40

for some reason there's been these disputes

37:44

about essential amino acids versus

37:46

branched-chain amino acids versus protein,

37:48

particularly in the fitness community.

37:53

But when you really look at the scientific community and you look

37:55

at the last 25 years, it's

37:58

pretty clear, like the story is pretty clear. hundreds

38:00

of papers demonstrating the

38:02

use of ua's versus whey protein versus

38:05

whole food protein just Studying this and

38:07

so I think from the sports nutrition

38:09

standpoint for the issn to take a

38:11

stand Was just

38:13

I think helpful for everyone and to

38:16

have more clarity about really what is

38:18

what does the science say? And one

38:20

quick note about I think the isn

38:22

is that you know, I

38:24

think people like to think or say oh This

38:27

thing has bias that thing doesn't have bias.

38:29

My general perspective is that everything has bias

38:32

I have a bias you have a bias

38:34

every organization has a bias more. The question

38:36

is what is their bias? What are their

38:38

motivations? Like why do they want to publish

38:40

these things or why do they say these things and to

38:44

make it explicit I think with the issn

38:46

you have a group of academic researchers the

38:48

leaders in Studying

38:51

things like creatine and protein and

38:53

amino acids They're

38:55

working at universities they're getting you

38:57

know a variety of grants from different types of

39:00

organizations to study things and so naturally their biases

39:02

they want to keep doing research and

39:05

They like holding each other accountable. They like

39:07

kind of like arguing over stuff But

39:10

I think ultimately they really are pursuing knowledge, you

39:12

know, and there are going to be motivations But

39:14

if I get a grant to try to study

39:16

something Whoever's

39:19

paying for the grant is going to want me to study

39:21

it in a certain way, right? That said

39:23

when you take the perspective of a whole

39:25

group of academic researchers over 25 years And

39:28

I'm trying to come to agreement you

39:30

basically blend together all of that

39:32

research, right? You're looking at Research

39:35

that was funded to see what would happen if these

39:37

things happen to old people What would happen if people

39:39

in the military took this product? What would happen? If

39:42

you deprive someone of calories and they took it for a

39:44

lot of different use cases And I think through all that

39:47

you end up with something that's I

39:49

have a lot of respect for so I just want to shout

39:51

out the ISSN because I think the work that they do is

39:54

is valuable and it's Yeah,

39:57

I trust I guess I trust their bias in

40:00

a way that it all blends together. So

40:02

going back to, you know, what

40:05

are the EAA's and what does this mean? I

40:09

actually think we could pick up from where we left

40:11

with the whey protein. So

40:13

in that same context where we're comparing the

40:15

whey protein isolate to a whole food protein,

40:18

the free form essential amino acids

40:20

are even more impactful. So

40:22

much more impactful that with certain groups, they

40:24

were six times more impactful than a whey

40:27

protein isolate. So three

40:29

grams of essential amino acids were the

40:31

equivalent of 20 grams of a whey

40:33

protein. That's a very significant

40:35

difference. And so immediately you wonder

40:37

like, well, why? Why, if whey

40:40

proteins are already so much more impactful than even

40:42

like a whole food protein, why would a free

40:45

form essential amino acid supplement be

40:48

even more? The reason for that

40:50

is twofold. Number

40:52

one, it's the bioavailability issue. Like we're

40:54

literally, it is immediately bioavailable. You do

40:56

not have to digest it. It just

40:58

immediately goes into blood and the peak

41:00

concentrations in the blood are there at

41:03

the highest immediately. So their

41:05

ability to stimulate muscle protein synthesis

41:07

is not much more significant. And

41:10

I would say with essential amino acids, it's

41:12

not to the degree of resistance training, but

41:15

you start to think about it in a more

41:17

similar context. Like if I just eat some

41:19

steak as part of a meal, it's not like

41:21

it's helping me build and

41:23

maintain my muscles. Like I need to do

41:26

some training. I need to like

41:28

lift some weights and then eat a steak.

41:30

When you consume essential amino acids, it literally

41:32

will help you maintain and build new muscle.

41:35

And that is because of the degree of

41:37

the muscle protein synthesis that it stimulates. So

41:41

that is, I mean, in a nutshell, it's,

41:43

you know, if you have, you know, a piece

41:47

of meat as part of a mixed meal and

41:49

you have free form essential amino acids on a

41:51

spectrum, they're on the opposite sides of the spectrum

41:53

in terms of how much more muscle protein synthesis

41:55

you get from the essential amino acids themselves. So

41:58

that's the number one. one reason I

42:01

guess of why they're so much more

42:03

impactful. But you're not and you're also

42:05

not saying that essential amino acids are

42:07

better than their whole food I guess

42:09

analog because again whole foods have so

42:11

much more nutritional value, minerals, essential fats.

42:13

I mean there's just like innumerable

42:16

benefits to consuming the bulk of

42:18

your protein from whole foods but

42:20

from a purely muscle protein synthetic

42:22

standpoint you're saying that the effect

42:24

when comparing I guess

42:27

on a especially on a gram for gram

42:29

basis is way higher with essential amino acids. Yeah

42:31

it's something like 12 grams of essential

42:33

amino acids is like five

42:36

times the impact of 70 grams

42:38

of meat in a mixed

42:40

meal. Wow. I

42:42

mean that's like pretty significant for this

42:44

specific context of building and maintaining muscle

42:47

and whole body protein synthesis. And yes

42:49

it's not to replace it. It's

42:53

I think again maybe we

42:55

can move into the conversation a little bit more

42:57

towards then okay so if it does have the

42:59

specific use like the specific mechanism of action and

43:02

way that it impacts the body well then when

43:04

and how does it make sense. If I'm already

43:06

eating enough protein why and how would I use

43:08

this? And I think there's really specific therapeutic cases

43:10

for it where you have specific goals and it

43:12

makes a lot of sense. Yeah and specific populations

43:14

as well right? Exactly yeah so it's not necessarily

43:17

the thing that everyone should do all the time or

43:19

the method that you should do instead of eating whole

43:21

food protein but that it can play a special role

43:24

in your life if you utilize it in the

43:26

right way. Yeah let's go into that like where

43:28

do you see them as a supplement fitting into

43:30

one's diet assuming that the person well I guess

43:32

assuming that the person is already consuming adequate protein

43:36

to optimally stimulate muscle

43:38

protein synthesis. But

43:40

then also I guess in unique edge

43:42

cases where people are perhaps like not

43:44

able to consume adequate protein where people

43:46

are on in

43:49

a state of calorie deficit older adult

43:51

populations for example maybe vegans yeah let's

43:53

go into those. So I

43:56

think the three most persuasive

43:58

use cases. Are for

44:00

uh, weight loss weight loss scenarios or some

44:03

scenario where you're trying to cut calories the

44:06

second one is for uh Athletic

44:09

performance enhancement. There's very specific athletic performance

44:11

enhancement and the third one is going

44:13

to be for aging So in

44:16

the weight loss category Uh, and

44:18

again, this is more recent researchers from the last

44:20

few years, but it's very consistent with the research

44:22

that was previous When

44:24

they did a five day 30

44:28

percent calorie reduction They

44:30

were able to show that you need

44:32

a three-fold increase in essential amino acids

44:35

to have a net Protein

44:37

balance. So let's break that

44:39

down. Um I'm

44:41

like a 200 pound guy if i'm

44:44

exercising Uh and doing

44:46

things I probably could eat 3000 calories a day

44:48

like my resting metabolic rate is probably like 2100

44:51

to 2200 but if I like train

44:53

and go for a run or something, it's about three

44:55

things So if I wanted to do a

44:57

30 reduction in that like let's just say I want to

44:59

get more cut You know, it's like I want to I

45:01

want to lose a few percent into body fat I want

45:03

to really look cut for this for this event or something

45:06

Um, and I would try to cut my calories

45:08

by you know that 30 percent

45:11

Um, that would look like

45:13

uh, is that 900 calories? Yeah. Yeah, so 900 calories

45:17

um So by cutting that 900

45:19

calories out of my diet, I suddenly need

45:21

three times as much protein as I used

45:23

to get So before and

45:25

we could choose how much protein I was eating

45:28

before whether it's 0.7

45:30

grams of protein per pound of body weight or

45:32

or one Let's just take it. I

45:34

was eating 100 grams of protein before I was eating about

45:36

100 grams of protein before I now need

45:38

to eat 300 grams of

45:40

protein the same quality protein the reason why

45:42

I say that is because For every

45:44

gram of quality protein about half of it is

45:47

essential amino acids if it's a whey protein if

45:49

it's beef It's honestly a little bit less than

45:51

that. So if i'm eating 100 grams of protein,

45:53

I now suddenly need to eat 300

45:56

grams of protein While

45:59

i'm cutting cutting 900 calories out

46:01

of my diet in order to not

46:03

lose muscle during that calorie

46:05

reduction. That is why historically

46:07

people have just focused on like bulks

46:09

and cuts because like the amount of

46:11

your diet that would become protein in

46:14

order to get those essential amino acids

46:16

is so significant. The reason for that

46:18

is because naturally when you're

46:20

cutting calories your body starts to think

46:22

I should use this protein and these

46:24

amino acids instead as an energy source

46:26

instead of trying to help build and

46:28

maintain muscle and similarly you're going through

46:30

a stress response and your body is

46:32

that much more kind

46:34

of catabolic in general because it's just

46:37

not prioritizing building and maintaining muscle. For

46:40

anyone that is trying to cut calories either

46:43

let's say you're a competitive athlete or let's just

46:45

say you're trying to lose that 10 pounds to

46:47

look a bit more cut and

46:49

I think I'm hesitant to weigh

46:52

into this but also if you're doing it

46:54

through any type of outside manipulation whether it's

46:56

like through drugs or surgery or something else

46:58

like that those things are

47:01

forcing you to consume less calories and you're going

47:03

to have the same need for this increase in

47:05

essential amino acids that is a perfect

47:07

opportunity to not feel like you have to eat 300

47:10

grams of protein instead you like maybe you up

47:12

it to you know even if you up to 150

47:14

grams of protein and that last 150 grams of

47:16

protein you need to get as essential amino

47:21

acids you could get 75 grams

47:24

from the essential amino acids of

47:27

a supplementation so basically

47:29

I think we kind of make it

47:31

more simple I'm trying to lose some

47:34

weight I'm going to cut some calories

47:36

if I added two to three servings

47:38

of essential amino acids throughout the day

47:40

with larger servings of it throughout the day

47:42

while also cutting my calories I could actually

47:44

lose 10 pounds of fat and maintain all

47:46

the muscle. But

47:48

300 grams of protein as a goal that seems

47:50

like a lot like don't you I mean even

47:53

bodybuilders I feel like they're you know when in

47:55

the depth of a cut I mean typically they're

47:57

not going much higher than One

47:59

gram per. Pound of their body weight

48:01

of your a two hundred pound person trying

48:03

to die down. Why would you think that

48:05

you need more? A hundred more. Why would

48:07

you think that you need three hundred grams

48:09

of protein to maintain your lean? So I

48:11

think. Here here's the core point

48:14

and I think. At. At

48:16

this level lot to decide. What is the fundamental

48:18

not a protein? I wouldn't So if I were

48:20

to enter pounds, how much protein do you think?

48:22

And I did. This is somewhat like a lot.

48:25

different studies show slightly different things. So as a

48:27

two hundred pound person, how many grams of protein

48:29

do you think that I need to consumed to

48:31

maintain my muscle not trying to lose weight. Just.

48:34

Going to maintain my current when I want

48:36

to maintain my current muscle in my training.

48:38

How many grams of protein? Yeah, whatever. To

48:40

the point seven Two times your body weight.

48:42

So I mean it. That and there's a

48:44

ring out. I think it. I think it

48:46

goes from America, switch over to kilograms. I

48:48

think it goes from one point six grams

48:51

per kilogram of body weight to about two

48:53

point two grams of protein per kilogram of

48:55

body weights. Which when you convert over to

48:57

pounds, is like point Seven. I

48:59

think possibly to one. So I meet him

49:01

to one gram per pound of your body

49:03

weight which if as a two hundred pound

49:06

person I would try to be eating between

49:08

like I don't know hundred and sixty to

49:10

two hundred grams of protein into. Okay so

49:12

that even higher than when I was saying

49:14

for right Some if it's literally just to

49:16

maintain my current muscle and we'd look sick,

49:18

the lower number one hundred and sixty grams

49:20

of protein, some not even going up to

49:22

the to hundreds that is simply to maintain

49:24

my current muscle and my current body fat

49:26

percentage. Everything I'm doing right now have a

49:28

mean it's assuming all. Other calories a constant

49:30

right. That

49:32

a much higher never. I was starting with

49:35

just one hundred. So what I'm saying is

49:37

with one hundred and sixty grams of protein

49:39

now if I want to cut weight. But.

49:42

I only wanted to be fat and I

49:44

do not want to lose any muscle or

49:46

have no net protein synthesis loss of the

49:48

period of that caught. With. The

49:50

more recent studies have shown. Is

49:53

that the thirty percent reduction in

49:55

calories required required a three hundred

49:57

percent increase in essential amino acid.

50:00

To maintain that muscle. So to say,

50:02

like able bodybuilders, You know, even like

50:05

when they're like now. We're

50:07

either going up to two hundred fifty

50:09

kr, two hundred grams of protein on.

50:13

During a cut the assumption is in a car

50:15

I am going to actually lose some muscle. Potentially

50:17

I'm gonna lose some family, some muscle. What I'm

50:19

saying is if your intention is to not lose

50:21

muscle, So. With Morrison says have

50:23

shown as that if you want to

50:26

not lose muscle in you only want

50:28

to prioritize the loss of fat than

50:30

you have to increase the total composition

50:32

of Yeas threefold. While. At. The

50:34

like prison. That's why it's science and

50:36

studied that much protein you could even

50:38

like, keep your current protein constant and

50:41

simply supplement with the Eas during that

50:43

cut face. So

50:45

when then. It's

50:47

your turn him If you're trying to sustain the

50:50

muscle and maybe constantly maybe like five like I

50:52

had, no one take additional supplements. I'm okay if

50:54

I lose the muscle during the time or you

50:56

know also sort or another fifty pounds overweight and

50:59

lights the after like I'm just gonna focus on

51:01

site trying to is much weight as a kennel

51:03

care from losing muscle. Yup then on. And

51:06

I'll sort of our to a person calorie consider. I

51:08

think that's a pretty big caught. Is. It

51:10

not. I mean efforts. It's been

51:12

a minute since I've ah, don't

51:14

proud. probably. I could probably lose.

51:17

Well. Yeah, I mean nine

51:20

hundred times. Ah, seven.

51:22

So. Yeah, I mean I could. I'd

51:24

probably lose a couple of have two

51:27

pounds a week. Mean that's aggressive, but

51:29

it's not like internally. like five pounds

51:31

of fat, right? right? right? Especially the

51:33

leaner you get them were you do

51:35

risk muscle loss. Oh yeah, I'm a

51:38

purpose perfect sense to how does then

51:40

how does one then figure out how

51:42

to partition their their daily essential amino

51:44

acid needs between Whole Foods and essential

51:46

amino acid supplements? Something.

51:49

To be. Different depending on your

51:51

contacts that the short answer all guess

51:54

is that you literally can take essential

51:56

amino acids any time of day. As

51:59

low as. One point five grams,

52:01

up to fifteen. Now the researchers like

52:03

eighteen grams which be a pretty high

52:05

dose while and you will get benefits

52:08

if you take it outside the context

52:10

of exercise or outside the context of

52:12

eating other meal, spend a few hours

52:14

since you exercised or yates. it's going

52:16

to create this muscle protein synthesis spike

52:18

that's of the same sort as what

52:21

you would get from actual training, but

52:23

not to the degree of training Under

52:25

will literally help you maintain and build

52:27

more muscle or you could consume it.

52:30

Actually with a meal so it's interesting.

52:32

This is newer to me and this

52:34

is actually me trying to understand some

52:36

these more recent studies and actually directly

52:39

talking already for pronto about they will

52:41

lead author on the sizes and paper

52:43

on that. Actually you could take the

52:45

essential amino acids right before meal so

52:47

say you're someone who likes drink tea

52:49

or diet soda or something with your

52:52

meal. Instead of that he replaced it

52:54

with essential amino. acids. He would actually

52:56

stimulate muscle protein synthesis and enhance. The.

52:59

Utilization of the protein amino acids in the

53:01

beef protein in the next meal since he

53:03

would get a more anabolic affects from the

53:05

protein the meal itself the can consume it

53:08

when you're eating more on the and think

53:10

about it in again. It's not have the

53:12

same degree as resistance training but have a

53:14

similar sort right? You're actually stimulating this muscle

53:17

protein synthesis to get better use of the

53:19

whole food protein itself. You

53:21

can take it before, during or after

53:23

exercise and similar to other you know

53:26

fasting periods meaning you haven't eaten in

53:28

a while. You can cigarette for your bed

53:30

and will create one more spike of muscle

53:32

protein synthesis for he go a bad. So

53:34

really there's a lot of different ways you

53:36

can use it. They're all good and they

53:38

may all makes sense. Different contacts and I

53:40

think if you're in, if you're in the

53:43

situation that we're trying to lose fat and

53:45

sustain muscle. mean

53:47

i would time and out likely between my

53:50

meals by itself i'm in a half you

53:52

know for meals a day or three meals

53:54

a day like habit in between those meals

53:56

to have more consistent spikes muscle protein synthesis

53:59

throughout the day I love it. I

54:01

often take you guys have I mean you have

54:03

the drink mix the drink powder obviously which I

54:05

love but you also Sell them in pill form

54:07

and so oftentimes before I go to bed I'll

54:09

just like a handful like you

54:11

know, I think I think actually and actually

54:14

now that I have you Now

54:16

that I have access to your brain. I would love to know

54:18

what you think about this. I You

54:21

know, we often hear that you want to generally hit

54:23

a leucine threshold of about two and

54:25

a half grams so 2,500 milligrams of leucine To

54:30

I guess adequate adequately hit that threshold

54:32

by which your synthetic your

54:34

your stimulating muscle protein synthesis So I actually

54:36

will take I think the serving size is

54:38

seven pills to get two grams of leucine

54:43

I'll take nine pills to

54:46

get that extra point five grams of

54:48

leucine so I like usually like handful

54:50

nine pills of The

54:53

EAAs before I go to sleep Does

54:56

that make sense? Does it make sense? The

54:58

nine pills is great for you It's not

55:01

necessary the more recent research has shown that

55:03

that threshold is kind of dependent on different

55:05

types of protein sources and and Interesting

55:08

it's more complex. So I actually think

55:11

1.5 grams of total essential amino

55:14

acids have been able

55:16

to show a muscle protein synthesis spike

55:18

Which in like our formula

55:20

which is based off the research 40% of

55:22

that is leucine. So you're looking at For

55:25

like point six grams of significantly less, but

55:28

that's what the more recent research has shown

55:30

I think that with one serving of five

55:32

grams You are you are getting a muscle

55:34

protein synthesis spike and you are supporting your

55:37

body with recovery from exercise throughout the day

55:39

You're ensuring that you're actually building a little

55:41

bit more muscle when you sleep What

55:44

I would say though is you if you this is

55:46

a lot if especially in a pill form But if

55:48

you update to the full 15 grams

55:50

or even 18 grams because you

55:52

train and you're active You

55:55

would get at 15 grams. You would get

55:57

three times the impact as the five grams. That

55:59

would be You took 21 pills though. But

56:01

if you took 21 pills right before bed,

56:03

you would maximize the muscle protein synthesis that

56:06

you would have while you were sleeping.

56:08

Super interesting. I really love that you guys actually

56:10

lay out the concentration of

56:13

each specific essential amino acid on

56:19

the label, because not many brands do that. I think

56:21

one of the biggest red flags for me on a

56:23

brand is proprietary blends. And

56:25

I super appreciate that you guys don't do that. Any

56:28

supplement that has a proprietary blend on it,

56:30

and it says you're getting 2000 milligrams of

56:34

an essential amino acid blend, but it doesn't

56:36

actually break down so you can see how

56:38

much leucine you're getting. To me, it

56:41

just feels like they're hiding something. I don't know. It's

56:43

not a, yeah, I try to avoid brands that

56:45

have proprietary blends. I like to know what you're

56:47

getting. I mean, as a supplements insider, I think

56:49

it depends on what the product is. I

56:52

would say for amino acids, it's really

56:54

important. I think it's

56:57

one of those interesting things where it's like people

56:59

put together supplements with a ton of botanicals in

57:01

them, and it's a proprietary blend. And it's like,

57:05

honestly, I'm like, what do those

57:07

botanicals actually do? Which ones? How much?

57:10

What's going on? The

57:13

studies around them are probably so varied. There's

57:15

probably a case for a lot of different stories.

57:18

With amino acid science, though, it's pretty

57:20

clear. It

57:23

has been studied consistently over the last 40

57:25

years now, the last 25 years. The

57:28

formulations have gotten clear and clear and clear and

57:30

clear about what you want in it. And

57:33

it really is fundamentally to base

57:36

the amino acids' proportions

57:39

on what exists in human skeletal muscle,

57:41

and then to increase the leucine to 40%. And

57:45

I'll make a note here why it's so important. And

57:47

this is actually another reason. I said

57:49

it was two-fold earlier, but I was probably talking too

57:51

much. We moved on past it. The difference

57:54

between whey protein also and freeform EAA is

57:56

in whey protein, it's a 27% concentration. of

58:00

leucine versus the other EAA's. In

58:03

a formula like ours, it's a 40% concentration. That

58:06

increase from 27 to 40% has shown a 50% increase in

58:10

muscle protein synthesis impact. Interesting. So it's not

58:12

only the bioavailability, it's actually by upping that

58:15

leucine a little bit, you

58:17

get a significant increase in the amount of

58:19

muscle protein synthesis that you get. So anyways,

58:21

you based off human skeletal muscle, you increase

58:23

the leucine, you increase the other two branch

58:25

chain amino acids to match it in

58:28

terms of their proportions, and you increase the leucine. And

58:31

it's like study after study that they're

58:33

doing for NASA, for the military, for

58:35

NIH, for private parties, and all

58:38

of these researchers are utilizing the previous

58:40

amounts of these amino acids to

58:42

base their studies to get the impacts

58:44

that they are seeking, right? To show that

58:46

it actually works, and it's publicly available. So

58:48

why would you not just use the

58:51

formulas that are publicly available and then just say

58:53

what it is? Yeah. Whereas

58:57

like if there's no good reason to not. So

59:00

for the general population, essential amino

59:02

acid supplements, super useful in terms

59:04

of getting obviously a higher level of

59:09

these amino acids into your periphery for

59:12

muscle protein synthetic, for a muscle protein

59:14

synthetic effect. But what are

59:16

the populations for whom this

59:20

kind of supplement might play an even more

59:22

useful role, right? It's like, I

59:25

think we've already touched on the aging populations,

59:28

people for whom maybe sick

59:30

people who don't have a large appetite. Walk

59:33

us through that a little bit. Yeah, so I

59:35

think, I mean,

59:38

quick tangent on athletic populations,

59:40

they're really impactful. Like the

59:42

degree to which they will increase

59:44

the amount of muscle protein synthesis that you get

59:46

purely from the exercise that you're doing, improve

59:50

the amount of endurance that you have

59:52

during that period, and improve your recovery

59:54

is very significant, and it's more than

59:56

protein or anything else you're gonna use.

59:59

And when should people. people take them in

1:00:01

that context, like post-workout? Taking them before

1:00:03

the workout will maximize the amount of

1:00:05

muscle protein synthesis. You're basically combining the

1:00:07

impact of the spike from the EAA's

1:00:09

themselves with the resistance training. Wow, did

1:00:11

they? Particularly with resistance training. But it's

1:00:13

also beneficial to take during. It would

1:00:15

simply improve more of like, it's not

1:00:17

to the same degree, but it's still

1:00:19

beneficial. And if you like it and

1:00:21

it helps you hydrate yourself, it's still

1:00:23

good. And also afterwards, there's a great

1:00:25

impact. But before you

1:00:27

get the greatest bang for your

1:00:29

buck. Is there any necessity for taking

1:00:31

them on an empty stomach or can they be mixed

1:00:33

as part of like a pre-workout? They can totally be

1:00:35

mixed as part of a pre-workout. Yeah, if you like

1:00:38

them. Yeah. But

1:00:40

let's move on to aging. I think because athletic

1:00:43

populations get a lot of attention in terms of

1:00:45

like using supplements like this. With aging, really

1:00:49

the older you get, the

1:00:51

greater the benefit you're gonna get from this type

1:00:53

of supplement. Which I think is like actually not

1:00:55

that uncommon for a lot of when

1:00:57

you think about dietary supplements. Like

1:01:00

when you're younger, your body is more resilient.

1:01:02

It's more able to recover from different types

1:01:04

of things. It's better able to use different

1:01:07

types of nutrients that are introduced into it.

1:01:09

And as you get older, your body simply

1:01:11

doesn't like work as well as it used

1:01:13

to work. And one of those or two

1:01:15

of the core ways that that occurs and

1:01:17

that's relevant to essential amino acids is that

1:01:19

your body's ability to digest protein gradually reduces,

1:01:21

simply not as effective at breaking down the

1:01:23

proteins into the component

1:01:26

amino acids. But even more

1:01:28

importantly, your body doesn't prioritize using

1:01:31

those amino acids to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

1:01:33

Which generally kind of makes sense. You know,

1:01:35

it's like as you think as you get

1:01:37

older and older is

1:01:39

my body, even from like an evolutionary perspective thinking

1:01:41

like I really need to like build and get

1:01:43

strong and stay super active so I can go

1:01:45

like hunt when I'm 80. Like it's not thinking

1:01:48

that, right? It's thinking I'm

1:01:50

gonna be more, I'm

1:01:53

gonna move less. Other people are gonna do

1:01:55

things for me. You Know, I might not

1:01:58

even survived past this age and previous. Narrations

1:02:00

and for the body? simply not

1:02:02

prioritizing utilizing those amino acids to

1:02:04

build muscle. Yeah, I think from

1:02:06

an evolutionary standpoint, I mean all

1:02:08

according to you know, like for

1:02:10

example, the I think it's How

1:02:12

the Grandmother theory of aging or

1:02:14

some or theory of longevity that.

1:02:17

All. Of that we are essentially meant

1:02:19

to do in our golden years so

1:02:21

to speak is to look after. Ah

1:02:24

the young of our you our to

1:02:26

look after our grandchildren essentially arm. so

1:02:28

yeah you're right it's not. It's not

1:02:30

necessary for the foraging for the hunting

1:02:33

arm, it's to be caretakers essentially for

1:02:35

our for use. That

1:02:37

said, we now live in a different world

1:02:40

where many people including myself i aspired to

1:02:42

like hike went out and d I want

1:02:44

to go, I want to go swim laps

1:02:46

in my i want to be marxism yeah

1:02:49

is now in his seventies yes still kite

1:02:51

surfing every day or doing whatever the hell

1:02:53

he does exactly and be being able to

1:02:56

have the physical vibrancy which I think fundamentally

1:02:58

is going to be a mix of like

1:03:00

your cardiovascular health and your muscular health like

1:03:02

do you have the strength and all your

1:03:05

tendon strong enough and not just. Your

1:03:07

muscles to actually move in, prefer nice

1:03:09

actions, and to avoid injury and and

1:03:11

to you know be vibrant. I'm so.

1:03:14

In. Order to get that. You're.

1:03:16

Going to have to probably take a different

1:03:18

approach than you took when you were twenty

1:03:20

five. And get there and. What

1:03:23

we have uncovered again over the last

1:03:25

twenty five years is that as we

1:03:27

get older. The. These

1:03:29

impacts that were describing earlier about like

1:03:31

say the free for amino acids versus

1:03:34

the whole food protein versus the way

1:03:36

protein Those differences become significantly exacerbated And

1:03:38

that is because again as I'm saying

1:03:40

your body simply not prioritizing it, So

1:03:42

utilizing essential amino acids to actually help

1:03:44

you just maintain your muscle mass thirty

1:03:47

five and on is going to become

1:03:49

progressively more and more and more and

1:03:51

more importance the other the other part

1:03:53

of this to as as we get

1:03:55

older metabolism typically doesn't function as well

1:03:58

and so. you kind of inclined to

1:04:00

eat less, your hunger may not be there as

1:04:02

much, but also you're inclined to eat less because

1:04:04

you're going to store more calories, you're going to

1:04:06

store more fat, and you're trying

1:04:08

to manage your weight in that way. I

1:04:10

think just the importance of resistance training

1:04:12

as we age, and the importance of

1:04:14

actually taking a supplemental EAA daily, purely

1:04:17

to actually maintain your muscle mass

1:04:19

and even potentially build it as

1:04:22

you age, it's

1:04:24

not just like, oh, it'd be cool if I lost 10 pounds

1:04:26

so I could look cut for those seasons. It's like, no, so

1:04:28

I can not

1:04:30

fall down and get hurt. So

1:04:33

good. Point do you think this,

1:04:35

from an aging standpoint, like I'm now on the wrong side

1:04:37

of 40, 41, and

1:04:41

my diet is very protein-centric. I eat

1:04:43

a ton of red meat,

1:04:45

chicken, fish, eggs, things like that. But

1:04:48

at what point should listeners really

1:04:51

start to consider this from a longevity

1:04:53

standpoint? I

1:04:56

think the first answer is like when you notice it. I

1:04:59

think in lots of cases, we're always looking for

1:05:01

someone else to tell us what we should do

1:05:04

and when we should do it, but I think naturally

1:05:06

we can observe our own bodies and we can tell

1:05:09

what used to work for us versus what

1:05:11

works less maybe now and how our body

1:05:13

composition is changing, et cetera. So that's the

1:05:15

first thing I'd say. The second

1:05:17

thing I'd say is that from the actual

1:05:20

research literature, it basically starts at around 35.

1:05:24

The other side of 35 is when

1:05:26

progressively your ability to utilize these amino

1:05:28

acids decreases decade after decade. So what

1:05:30

I would say is that for someone

1:05:32

who's in their 20s, early 30s, an

1:05:34

EAA supplement versus

1:05:38

say a protein powder is

1:05:41

going to be like three times

1:05:43

as effective, basically. Once

1:05:45

you hit 40, four times, 50, five times, 60, six

1:05:48

times, 77 times, roughly. That

1:05:53

is me summarizing a lot of the literature and a lot

1:05:55

of studies, but it's roughly about that amount of impact. So

1:05:57

you can just tell that by the time I'm 40, I'm

1:05:59

like, Like, wow, I get a lot

1:06:01

more from this essential amino acid supplement.

1:06:05

I get 30% more value from it than

1:06:07

I did 10 years ago. Whereas when you're

1:06:09

50, you're gonna get almost double the impact

1:06:11

of what you got from when you were

1:06:14

30. So it just

1:06:16

progressively gets that much more important as you

1:06:18

age. So what's a good starting regimen then

1:06:20

for somebody looking to experiment with

1:06:22

these? Like would you say one serving

1:06:25

in the morning? Or what might

1:06:27

that look like? I would start

1:06:29

with one serving per day. And

1:06:31

I would think about the time of the

1:06:33

day when you're consuming the least

1:06:35

amount of protein. I think that's like, that's

1:06:38

the first place really to start and to

1:06:40

look into because you're gonna ensure that you're

1:06:42

not going into net protein loss

1:06:44

during that period. And

1:06:46

you'll likely experience the mood benefits and the

1:06:48

energy benefits. Because it also, these amino acids

1:06:51

are the precursors of your neurotransmitters. You'll

1:06:54

experience more of like the satiation that you get

1:06:56

from consuming protein. And so it's a nice way

1:06:58

just to kind of fit it in to your

1:07:00

day. The other answer I'd

1:07:03

give is like, when can you get yourself

1:07:05

to start taking it? Like we can always debate about like, you

1:07:07

should be training this many days and you should be eating this.

1:07:09

And I'm like, what can you actually get someone to do? So

1:07:12

if the easiest thing for you to do is just to take a

1:07:14

scoop or take a few pills first thing in the morning. Or the

1:07:16

easiest thing is right before you go to bed, then

1:07:18

do that. But I

1:07:21

think in this context, you have the information now

1:07:23

to know like, it can be useful during a

1:07:25

low protein meal. It can be useful when I'm

1:07:27

not eating. It can be useful before exercise. But

1:07:30

it's also very useful first thing in the morning or before you

1:07:32

go to bed. So it's really like, when

1:07:34

can you get yourself to actually anchor that new

1:07:37

behavior to something that you're already doing and be

1:07:39

consistent with it? Because that's really where you're gonna

1:07:41

get the benefits. It's not like you're gonna take

1:07:43

this thing, you're gonna take

1:07:45

anything one day. And suddenly your whole

1:07:47

life's gonna change, right? It's not like you go to the

1:07:50

gym one day and suddenly, you

1:07:52

can do everything. Like you go to the gym a

1:07:54

few days a week for a year and you're like,

1:07:56

oh wow, like that's crazy. Like

1:07:58

yeah, I'm stronger, I can lift more stuff. Like, oh, my body looks. different. So

1:08:00

I think it's a similar outlook to

1:08:02

that. Yeah, consistency carves

1:08:04

mountains. My dad just turned 74 and

1:08:06

he doesn't eat breakfast when he does

1:08:09

eat breakfast. It's like a bagel. He

1:08:12

should take this. Yeah. First thing in

1:08:14

the morning. Yeah, because also overnight the overnight

1:08:16

fast, you're definitely

1:08:18

in a state of net protein loss

1:08:25

first thing in the morning. Which again, going back

1:08:27

to the conversation earlier, it doesn't mean like never

1:08:29

let that happen. I mean by like old school

1:08:31

bodybuilders maybe like eat chicken every three hours and

1:08:33

wake themselves up in the middle of the night

1:08:36

and make sure they have casein right before they

1:08:38

go to bed. But for most of

1:08:40

us, it's okay to give your body a rest and

1:08:42

to be in a net protein loss during that period.

1:08:44

It's just what are you doing during the other parts

1:08:46

of the day? Are you doing things to to

1:08:49

ensure that you're ultimately in

1:08:52

net protein positive throughout the course of

1:08:54

the day throughout 24 hours? Yeah, that

1:08:57

makes a ton of sense. Anything else you want

1:08:59

to add to the conversation? I feel like this

1:09:01

is fascinating and I'm super excited to have to

1:09:03

be able to offer my audience a protein master

1:09:05

class. Which I feel like we we offer them

1:09:07

the first time you were on them. I feel

1:09:09

like you're like a walking encyclopedia article

1:09:11

on the benefits of protein and amino acids.

1:09:14

But yeah, the floor

1:09:16

is yours and also I just want to say that people

1:09:18

can go save 20% off of

1:09:20

anything that you guys produce at

1:09:22

getkeon.com/genius life. Again, like I've been

1:09:24

using your protein for years. I'm a huge fan and the

1:09:27

essential amino acid supplements bomb. Tastes great.

1:09:29

Also super easy to integrate. But

1:09:32

yeah, anything else you want to you want to leave us with? I'll

1:09:36

just say thanks man. I like what you're doing.

1:09:38

It's awesome that you want to have these kinds

1:09:40

of conversations and that there's actually a format

1:09:43

to have this kind of conversation because I think

1:09:45

the things we're talking about are really

1:09:48

important to people. They're

1:09:50

a little heady but hopefully we

1:09:54

talked about it in enough of a

1:09:56

context and with like the right kind of language where people

1:09:58

can really engage with it. because I think these are

1:10:00

the types of things that can really change people's life. And you

1:10:03

do a great job of just keeping

1:10:05

things simple. You know, it's like, you

1:10:07

know, I saw some posts you did recently about,

1:10:10

like be ripped or whatever, and it was like,

1:10:12

but it really is that simple, you know? It's

1:10:14

like going to the gym, it's eating this much

1:10:16

protein, it's just keeping things simple, but

1:10:18

keeping it still science-based, and like I think you

1:10:20

just do a great job of it. So I'm

1:10:22

grateful for you and for the platform and for

1:10:24

being able to educate people about this. Thanks, man.

1:10:27

You know, tons of people like that post, and then I got like a

1:10:29

handful of commenters saying, why should I listen to you? You're not

1:10:31

lean and jacked. I'm like, what are you doing?

1:10:35

It's like people are so insane online these

1:10:37

days. And

1:10:41

yeah, I just can't sometimes on social media, but

1:10:43

I'm glad that it's resonating with at least some

1:10:45

proportion of people out there, you know? Well, that's

1:10:47

what it's about, man. It's like, you're not in

1:10:49

it for the haters, right? Yeah. I

1:10:51

mean, you're in it for like the people that

1:10:54

are enjoying it. And that like, literally,

1:10:56

someone takes one

1:10:58

thing from this conversation today, and

1:11:01

they implement in their life in a

1:11:03

consistent way, and 10 years from now,

1:11:06

they're like healthier and happier. Like, dude, that's

1:11:08

it, man. That's it. That's it.

1:11:11

That is it. That's it. Yeah.

1:11:14

And also like, so much goes into whether or not a person is,

1:11:16

first of all, I don't know if people know

1:11:18

this on social media, but I am, you know,

1:11:21

like I've been training my whole life, but like

1:11:23

I'm past 35, at which point, does

1:11:26

become somewhat more difficult to accrue muscle, even though

1:11:28

I would say that I'm in the best shape

1:11:30

now that I've ever been in. I'm

1:11:32

the most jacked that I've ever been. And

1:11:36

that's, you know, and I feel very proud

1:11:38

of that. Not that that, you know,

1:11:41

it's my hobby. It's not like something that I

1:11:43

put too much of my self worth into, by

1:11:45

the way. But

1:11:48

yeah, like also, you know, there's like genes

1:11:50

play a role, hormones play a role. There

1:11:52

are so many factors that go into, and

1:11:55

the vast majority of people that do look

1:11:57

lean and jacked on social media professionally, like

1:11:59

they're augmented. They take performance enhancing drugs

1:12:01

so many of them even people that don't cop

1:12:03

to it like I have friends that are Regularly

1:12:05

shirtless on social media. They look fantastic

1:12:08

and They don't admit

1:12:10

to it. They don't cop to it on

1:12:12

social media, but they're they're on TRT and

1:12:14

the like so Yeah, I

1:12:16

think that there is a people people have

1:12:18

way more latitude than they often give

1:12:20

themselves credit for in terms of what

1:12:22

they Can potentially achieve with their bodies?

1:12:25

Were they to just put in the time? dedicate

1:12:27

the consistency have a little bit of patience and

1:12:31

And yeah having super access to super

1:12:33

high quality products that make it easy to

1:12:35

hit those protein Those those

1:12:38

protein targets every day and when you're not able

1:12:40

to hit the protein targets or even when you

1:12:42

are to then augment With you know, essentially no

1:12:44

acid supplements. I think all

1:12:46

super great super helpful useful tools

1:12:48

to have in the toolkit. I Think

1:12:51

that's it. Yeah getting good tools for your

1:12:53

toolkit. Yeah. Yeah, very important. Well

1:12:55

Angela. Thanks for coming out Thanks, Max. Yeah

1:12:57

again, um people

1:12:59

can go to get key on comm

1:13:02

G E T K I O n

1:13:04

comm slash genius life and Key

1:13:07

ons all around social media as well. I know

1:13:10

you guys are, you know, very responsive if anybody

1:13:12

has any questions You

1:13:14

guys have great customer service so people can go and check you out

1:13:16

there and thanks for flying out. Yeah,

1:13:18

man Thanks for having me. It was a joy. Yeah,

1:13:20

likewise thanks guys for listening share this episode with friends

1:13:22

and loved ones that you think might benefit from it

1:13:24

and Leave

1:13:27

a rating and review. It's a free way to support what we're

1:13:29

doing here on the genius life I appreciate you guys and

1:13:31

I will catch you on the next episode. Peace everybody