0:00

Hello and welcome to this podcast

0:02

from the BBC World Service. Please

0:04

let us know what you think and tell

0:07

other people of Isis on social media. Podcasts

0:09

from the BBC World Service. are

0:12

supported by advertising. to

0:33

your door. Go to bluenile.com and

0:35

use promo code. Am.

0:47

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we

0:49

like to do the opposite of what Big

0:52

Wireless does. They charge you a lot, we

0:54

charge you a little. So naturally, when they

0:56

announced they'd be raising their prices due to

0:58

inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due

1:00

to not hating you. That's right! We're cutting

1:02

the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a

1:04

month to just $15 a month. Give

1:08

it a try at mintmobile.com. $45

1:12

up front for 3 months plus taxes and fees. Promote for new customers for

1:14

limited time. Unlimited more than 40GB per month. Full

1:16

terms at mintmobile.com. Hello!

1:19

I'm Adam Fleming and from the Bbc

1:22

World Service This is the global story.

1:26

Monday. To Friday we focus on one

1:28

story in detail with the help of

1:30

the Bbc best journalists. Today.

1:35

Inside the major cleanup efforts

1:37

in Baltimore no. No

1:43

Way and Howard witness that? Is

1:45

be more than two weeks since

1:47

or cargo ship the length of

1:50

the Eiffel Tower lost power and

1:52

plowed into a Baltimore Bridge. Bridge

1:55

is gone. The collapse killed six

1:57

immigrant workers, subverted Interstate Highway. That's

2:00

off a vital American poured onto the

2:02

Atlantic. The people mom know where which

2:04

you from Stay with you. President Biden

2:07

says a new bridge will rise again.

2:09

The first engineers the to figure out

2:11

how to pry the huge ship from

2:14

the wreckage of the old one. Will.

2:16

Hear about the dangers practical and

2:18

political for the engineers for the

2:21

City of Baltimore and for the

2:23

President himself. Were.

2:28

Joined now by to Bbc correspondent who been

2:30

covering the story on The Grimes or more

2:32

accurately I should say on The Waltzer. And

2:34

they're from a very big city just down

2:37

the road from Baltimore that you've probably heard

2:39

of. It's called Washington D C. Please welcome

2:41

semi some a scandal hello see me. Either.

2:44

Thanks for having me. And also our colleague

2:46

burnt to baseman hi burnt I think you

2:48

for having me. You know what?

2:50

Before we we dig into this story, I'm

2:52

going to set you a little test. How

2:55

would you describe the Francis Scott Key Bridge

2:57

to somebody who haven't seen it? Sumi. Monumental.

2:59

Majestic. That's what I always thought of

3:02

when I saw the Baltimore skyline in

3:04

the past. Burnt yeah, I think

3:06

I would say the same. I think it's

3:08

You know if anyone seen any pictures of

3:10

Baltimore in the last forty years amidst among

3:13

the most iconic pieces of that city skyline?

3:15

It's is really part of the the city,

3:17

the heart of the city. You. Know

3:19

the words the I would use and I wonder

3:21

if this is with the benefit of hindsight? Spindly,

3:25

Can. You see why I would say that? Because it

3:27

does. It's sort of looks a bit spindly when you

3:30

look at some of the pictures of it. It does.

3:32

And I think now that pieces of the

3:34

bridge which were going to talk about our

3:36

in the water I can see what you

3:38

mean by spindly. It's a bridge across

3:40

hundreds of times you know between for time

3:42

I was a teenager until now and it's

3:44

not a word I would have ever, ever

3:47

thought we'd be using to describe would seem

3:49

to me previously to be a very sturdy,

3:51

long, solid piece of bridge. Now we know

3:54

we know different. A burnt

3:56

I mentioned and introduction that set some have you

3:58

been covering the story from the war. Just

4:00

explain what that what that meant for you

4:02

but will. Last week I went out with

4:04

the Us Army Corps of Engineers and the

4:06

Colonel in charge of the cleanup efforts on

4:08

the Top Score river. We went out on

4:10

a salvage both we got quite close to

4:12

the bridge. we're out in the water for

4:14

a few hours. It was kind of a

4:16

jarring shocking site to me to actually see

4:18

it up close in. I'd previously seen him

4:20

for quite some distance for when you get

4:22

up there a new seats, dozens of shipping

4:24

containers that are of an sleeps most like

4:27

a like a sandwich basically or cut to

4:29

pieces and a giant. Chunk of a

4:31

bridge miss scene, and a ship

4:33

very much stuck in the water

4:35

under it's rubble. It was something

4:37

I'll never forget. And we will

4:39

discuss the implications of that. very vivid

4:42

images painted throughout this episode. But let's

4:44

just we winds to the moment the

4:46

this actually happens. What do we know

4:48

a by the ship that than be

4:50

Dolly? Were at come from

4:53

what it was doing. anything above sit

4:55

that might have led to this incident

4:57

that. Answer to that is actually still

4:59

do not know what causes massive sale

5:01

here on board and indices a single

5:04

poor flagship. It was coming to the

5:06

Baltimore port and heading to Sri Lanka

5:08

and what we know about what happened

5:10

and before that moment of impact that

5:12

we're starting to piece together a little

5:14

that the association of ship pilot sell

5:17

just to back up on that for

5:19

one moment. Yet there are there are

5:21

Sip pilots who actually have to be

5:23

on board container ships when they go

5:25

to Harper's Airports in the Us. Because

5:27

it's a really tricky endeavor and

5:30

these are very narrow channels and

5:32

all. That means that you need

5:34

somebody experienced on board to navigate

5:36

a separate big container ship through

5:38

a port or Harper. and that's

5:40

exactly what's supply. That's one for

5:42

doing. And it became clear at

5:44

around one twenty am, I think

5:46

that something was going massively wrong.

5:48

cells. What we know from Zip

5:50

Pilots Association is that this ship

5:52

was experiencing a blackout so electrical

5:54

systems went out. The system thoughts

5:56

powered the engine. Went out and that

5:59

allowed some electrical systems to go back

6:01

on. And so the ship pilot made

6:03

that incredibly important mayday call, but they

6:05

tried to drop the ship's anchored to

6:08

steer it the other way. anything to

6:10

try to avoid the impact, and we're

6:12

still trying to figure out piecing together

6:15

the data from what authorities have found,

6:17

what led to that. I'm

6:19

one of the authorities that has helped us

6:21

piece that the picture together as the Maryland's

6:23

Transportation Authority Police because they released the audio,

6:26

have some of their police radio traffic and

6:28

we can hear a bit of an eye.

6:30

And he was ya himself. Fly when

6:32

you guys on the door slide hoard

6:34

all traffic on with you British out

6:36

of her ship. A person has just

6:38

lost their spirit. For the to

6:41

read and under control. Yeah about Robert. They.

6:43

Knew the ship had lost power

6:45

that started to close the bridge

6:48

and then a minute later he

6:50

just smiled. Start. Started

6:52

to hurt everybody knows. What

6:56

is right? right? That's correct. Irina

6:59

for travelling riffraff. I

7:01

target for the other side or the

7:04

bridge is down. So.

7:08

That was the situation two weeks ago. Last

7:10

bring ourselves right up to date and talk

7:12

about what happens to the bridge since and

7:14

what more with aren't about the ship and

7:16

their crew and some the other people involved

7:18

in all of this burns. we talked about

7:20

you being on the war surf paint a

7:23

picture for be for what what that assignment

7:25

was like. It was cold and it was.

7:27

It was quite rainy on the day I

7:29

went out a new I went on quite

7:31

a small salvage russell there with me in

7:33

the Army colonel who's in charge of the

7:35

Army Corps of Engineers Baltimore District for name's

7:37

colonel A seats in season. Lasts.

7:46

Forever. You know

7:48

we went out. There is quite a

7:50

choppy ride. We were a few hundred meters

7:52

from from the vessel. We did kind

7:54

of a large circle around it, but I

7:57

was intellectually prepared. but because emotionally prepared for

7:59

the they'd have it because it means

8:01

a this vessel is sewage. I'd seen it

8:03

from a distance Phone you get up close,

8:06

you realize there's thousands of containers on

8:08

the ship and then you see expanses of

8:10

bridge that are getting out of the water

8:12

that are without exaggerated as tall and

8:14

wide as the office building were wearing now

8:16

here in Washington D C. And then tablet

8:19

describe to you with the conditions under

8:21

the water. At

8:24

the moment, they're still three to four thousand

8:26

tons of steel and concrete in the water.

8:28

Parts of it are visible on the ship,

8:30

and you're set it kind of jutting out

8:33

of the water, but that's only a fraction

8:35

of the actual debris field, which is all

8:37

underwater. It might look motionless, but there's a

8:39

lot of pressure builds up in those pieces,

8:42

so sign them apart is not something that

8:44

can be done quickly. So at the moment,

8:46

as they're still in the assessment phase, their

8:48

teams of divers in the water, who are

8:51

essentially diving blind. There's no one or two

8:53

feet of visibility. There being guided through

8:55

your phone's essentially and the colonel in charge

8:57

described it to me as imagine doing something

8:59

very technical with a blindfold on and they're

9:01

saying you know, move your hand two inches

9:03

to the right, Move your hand two inches

9:05

to the left. Tell us what's this connected

9:07

to at but you don't actually know what

9:09

it's connected to, what the shape of the

9:11

object is, how big it is. If you

9:13

saw it might snap and co all over

9:15

the place and might cut. The. Ship

9:17

or as a person near it. So it's

9:20

It's incredibly dangerous and it has to be

9:22

done bit by bit softer. They saw individual

9:24

pieces they have to kind of assess. Did

9:26

this move did we'd know what this was

9:28

connected to, his this reacting the way that

9:31

we thought it would assume it's It's a

9:33

very long and drawn out process and and

9:35

as I said it's it's very dangerous. It's

9:37

not an exaggeration to say that for the

9:39

divers doing as it could be potentially deadly

9:42

if they are in the wrong place for

9:44

the wrong time or in up a piece

9:46

of debris cause further. Damage to the ship

9:48

and makes him weren't even more difficult to refloat

9:50

and removed from the area. So it's it's it's

9:52

gonna be a long haul for them. This is

9:54

how they described to me. What?

9:57

Sort of stuff is in the containers. That.

10:00

Instead exactly what's in all the shipping containers.

10:02

But these ships are are so huge and

10:04

they travel to so many places. There's you

10:06

know could be all sorts of material on

10:08

in the different containers in a different sort

10:10

of goods. food, products, cars, mechanical products, I

10:13

just add that officials on seen have been

10:15

asked about the possibility of contaminants in the

10:17

water and so far they haven't indicated that

10:19

there is a serious risk in the water

10:22

as far as I understand, but that still

10:24

to be determined based on as you said,

10:26

what exactly is in those containers and what

10:28

leaked into. The water and Sumi war or

10:30

the other knock on effects of in I'm

10:33

thinking straight away lots of people having sick.

10:35

a much longer route rhymes to work at

10:37

the very least. indeed. But of course

10:39

the biggest knock on effect as the impact

10:42

on the families of the sex workers who

10:44

are first and foremost those who have been

10:46

most impacted by this. But if you look

10:48

at Baltimore, Usb Port and the waterway as

10:51

well, this is literally a lifeline for Baltimore.

10:53

That's what we kept hearing on the ground

10:55

there and we have heard from officials said

10:57

Governor of Maryland West more than talking about

11:00

this. Is not just about Maryland,

11:02

this is about the nation's economy.

11:04

The port handles more cars and

11:06

more farm equipment than any other

11:09

port in America. And. At least

11:11

eight thousand workers on the ducks

11:13

have jobs that have been directly.

11:16

Affected by this collapse, our economy

11:18

depends on the port a Baltimore.

11:21

And. The Poor of. Depends.

11:23

On. Vessel Traffic We. Spoke to him business

11:25

reporter from the Baltimore Banner. This has

11:27

been a big lesson for us both

11:30

locally that know the supply chain does

11:32

adapt very quickly. He. Was telling us that

11:34

the shipping always adjusts also if there

11:36

is an accident. If there is this

11:38

type of obstruction, let's say two ships

11:40

being able to access the poor, it's

11:42

still find another path in the meantime.

11:44

With yeah there's already been ships diverting to

11:46

other ports are crucial. That was do for

11:48

Baltimore, headed to for junior one. Of

11:50

the concerns and Baltimore is that that

11:53

adjustment won't and readjust once those shipping

11:55

ways are open again. When support is

11:57

open for business, it is a really.

12:00

The big deal and the concern

12:02

is that it's not just the

12:04

immediate impact on the porch and

12:06

the workers, the economy, but also

12:08

the long term effect of some

12:10

shipping perhaps shifting to other avenues.

12:12

And. Burnt President Biden is talks about that

12:14

that crucial channel being cleared by the end

12:16

of May. having been there and seen it

12:18

with road eyes, to think that's a realistic

12:21

timeline. Well, I think it'll be difficult. and

12:23

you know what? When I was out on

12:25

the water, the Army Corps of Engineers gave

12:27

a similar timeline, but they also gave it

12:29

in very kind of guarded language, saying that

12:31

you know that time mind is weather dependent

12:33

if the weather's bad. That kind of brings

12:36

the cleanup operation kind of to a standstill,

12:38

and there could be unforeseen technical factors. Like

12:40

I said, if something doesn't react the way.

12:42

They expected to. When it's sign it

12:44

is very complex hydraulic sears that are

12:46

sign through thing so they can't really

12:48

predict how pieces will react what pieces

12:50

will shift. For example, if they were

12:52

to remove some of the large steel

12:54

expenses from the ship and the ship

12:56

moves and now there's in a potential

12:59

for other containers. the fall in the

13:01

water our the ship to kind of

13:03

move over and get further stop. That's

13:05

all going to complicate the process. I

13:07

think they're confident they can do it,

13:09

but there are a lot of factors

13:11

that could complicate this. I. Think it's it's

13:13

possible, or perhaps even likely that this might

13:15

take a little longer. And.

13:17

Burn just to pick up on that point

13:19

you made their about it being the Army

13:21

Corps. So the people who are going down

13:24

there and doing this incredibly difficult, dangerous works

13:26

they are all military personnel or other people

13:28

whose this is their job. Well it's It's

13:30

a team effort. So they start of something

13:32

called the Unified Command which has elements from

13:35

the Navy. A lot of the divers are

13:37

actually Navy divers. A Navy diver is very

13:39

good at salvage operations, but then they also

13:41

have recovery divers from Maryland state. So when

13:43

they think they found human remains because are

13:46

still three people missing, those divers. Than jumping

13:48

to accept. There's the Army Corps of Engineers

13:50

which does lot of large infrastructure projects in

13:52

the Us and the very qualified for for

13:54

this sort of work. There is the coastguard,

13:56

there's Maryland State Police, and there's private companies

13:58

in a this is. Very nice knowledge. Some

14:01

of these cranes are and norm as I

14:03

mean one of the cranes they're called the

14:05

Chesapeake is the largest crane on the East

14:07

coast, and it's actually interestingly had previously been

14:10

used in a Cia operation to retrieve a

14:12

Soviet sub plan the Pacific. How many people

14:14

are we talking about her working on? This

14:16

is actually could be a effort of several

14:19

thousand people just to clear the waterway and

14:21

reflect the ship. And that's to say nothing

14:23

of the eventual reconstruction of the bridge. So

14:27

we reminded ourselves of how much this

14:29

event impact of Baltimore and we've discussed

14:31

the mammoth clean up. Next, we're going

14:33

to look at the cost of this

14:35

and the politics of best. A

14:45

lot can happen in three years, like

14:47

a chatbot may be your new best

14:49

friend. But what won't change? Needing health

14:51

insurance? UnitedHealthcare Tri-Term Medical Plans, underwritten by

14:53

Golden Rule Insurance Company, offer flexible, budget-friendly

14:55

coverage that lasts nearly three years in

14:57

some states. Learn more at uh1.com. Tired

14:59

of ads barging into your favorite

15:01

news broadcasts? Goodness. Tired

15:06

of ads barging into your favorite news

15:08

podcasts? Good news. Stay.

15:10

Ad free listening on Amazon Music is included

15:12

with your Prime membership. Or. Go

15:15

to amazon.com/news ad free.

15:17

That. amazon.com/news ad free to catch

15:19

up on the latest episodes without

15:22

the ads. Miss.

15:31

Sorry, We bring you one big

15:33

international story in detail five days

15:36

a week. Follow or subscribe where

15:38

ever you listen. With

15:41

me for this episode From Washington D C

15:43

R C meet some scans us and burned

15:45

to busman. Now. You two are

15:47

the only ones to visit Baltimore and

15:50

the aftermath of the bridge collapsing. There

15:52

was also President Joe Biden. And

15:56

then and tests on something that I know you

15:58

want to talk about in a minute. Birds which

16:00

is those workers the sex workers that were on

16:03

the bridge. You were killed when the ship collided

16:05

with it after forming a nicer fix a bottle.

16:08

They're. Are a break where the ship struck. Just.

16:10

Seconds before. One. Of the

16:13

man named Carlos, who was only twenty four.

16:15

Left. A message for his girlfriend has would

16:17

say. We. Just for cement.

16:20

Were. Waiting for it to dry, Burn.

16:23

Tell us more about what we've learned

16:25

about the six workers for all of

16:27

them were originally from Latin America, from

16:29

Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador in Guatemala and

16:31

in over from what we've learned about

16:33

them. their experiences are in that all

16:35

a typical of immigrants from those parts

16:37

of the world in the U, Sen,

16:39

the Us. about one in four construction

16:42

workers are foreign born and of that.

16:44

The. The overwhelming majority are from Latin

16:46

America, and in the day of the collapse,

16:48

I went out to some of these heavily

16:50

Hispanic neighborhoods that are kind of in the

16:52

area where some of these people lived. And

16:55

a lot of people said, right away, you

16:57

know this could have been us. This could

16:59

have been people we know. Even the predator,

17:01

Mexico, commented that it's often immigrants from Latin

17:03

America, they're doing the sort of dangerous jobs

17:05

and it's sad to think about because it's

17:07

not just the Us economy that relies heavily

17:10

on these people, but the economies of their

17:12

own country. So one of the men we

17:14

know. About his name was mean are so

17:16

Iris and of all his from Honduras he.

17:18

Was. Sending money back home he had paid

17:21

for his family to set up a

17:23

hotel in their it little part of

17:25

rural Honduras. A lot of people they

17:27

knew at home were employed there. Thirty

17:29

one percent of Honduras is kind of

17:31

me as remittances from the Us. so

17:33

it's it's. not at all on a

17:35

typical story, but I just think it's

17:37

it's highlighted a segment of society that

17:39

people don't necessarily always discuss are kind

17:41

of gets lost in the conversation about

17:43

immigration which has become very political and

17:45

very very polarized in the Us. desert

17:47

communities that are often very. Unsung.

17:50

Yeah. Right, I said. I was really interesting. Some

17:52

reporting that we saw in the Of Independent the

17:54

past few days that a lot of these migrant

17:56

worker communities in the Baltimore area say, look at

17:58

this bridge gets rebuilt. It's. Probably going to

18:00

be migrant workers who are doing it

18:03

once again and they are worried about

18:05

safety not only on a bridge of

18:07

course, but in construction projects in general.

18:09

And that's something that some of the

18:11

organizations that were present this community say

18:13

that they have raised with the White

18:15

House that they have race with their

18:17

lawmakers local and on a federal level.

18:19

To highlight be issued that it is

18:21

migrant workers are the most vulnerable when

18:23

it comes to construction accidents and that

18:26

they are concerned about the possibility of

18:28

safety Going back on to build another.

18:30

Bridge and I thought it was interesting that

18:32

it one of the members of the community

18:34

was asked to is also construction worker said

18:36

look you could pay me million dollars and

18:38

I will go work on that bridge because

18:40

they saw what happened to a member of

18:42

their own community Of course are members of

18:44

their own communities and so this really has

18:46

become a touch point. For. Them and

18:48

for local law makers took take a look

18:50

at what the conditions are the migrant workers

18:53

are often facing when they are working. Construction.

18:55

Sure enough of it is interesting. I've I've heard

18:57

kind of similar assessment for so the people I

18:59

spoke to in Baltimore assumed they would be reluctant

19:01

to work in the scissors but the same time.

19:04

Lot. Of them, A family that depend on them.

19:06

I remember very clearly the day of the accident.

19:08

One one guy in a Mexican grocery store I

19:11

stop for for food near the bridge. She said,

19:13

yeah, it's unpleasant, but if I don't work, I

19:15

don't eat. Neither does anyone around me. So I'm

19:17

I'm a, I think it's It's one of the

19:20

situations where they'll be a lot of concern, but

19:22

the end of the day, it's still. Very.

19:24

Likely. Going. To be them.

19:27

But that's building. The replacements. And

19:29

see me, We heard from President Biden.

19:31

their does this incident and the implications

19:33

that flow from it does that mass

19:36

pontiff presidential politics And by that I

19:38

mean. Biden. Vs. Trump. It

19:40

does it away look. President Biden was front and

19:42

center at right after the instead of promising full

19:44

federal. Support my intention of

19:46

federal grumble prose tired or

19:49

services or fruits. And that

19:51

is something that in the first few days

19:53

went perhaps a notice but pretty soon after

19:55

that when it came to the cost of

19:57

how much this is actually end up. The

20:00

you saw hardliners of the Republican Party

20:02

members of the Freedom Caucus raising the

20:04

alarm bell rejecting the idea that this

20:06

is a bill that the Federal government

20:08

should pick up entirely awaiting is interesting

20:10

is you. It's not entirely partisan. There

20:12

are some democrats have also said look

20:14

we have to look at who is

20:16

is actually liable here if we can

20:18

get money from insurance claims, if we

20:20

can get money from at the litigation

20:22

that going to be involved in this

20:24

entire process. That is something we should

20:26

absolutely pursue And President Biden when he

20:28

visited the site on April. Fifth, he did

20:30

also mentioned that that this is something that of

20:33

course the Federal government will pursue. We ask that

20:35

question to one of Maryland's senators Chris and Hall

20:37

and when he came on our program, just one

20:39

click. Last question, Who should pay for it? We

20:42

know that. Any said, I look, of course we're

20:44

going to explode those avenues, but this cannot be

20:46

a partisan. Issue This is a time for the

20:48

country to come together. Or. And do

20:50

what we done in the past. Ah and

20:52

help And American city. A great American city.

20:55

Needs Assistance. Senator. Will

20:57

happily because you look at the other

20:59

side of the coin. The former President

21:02

Donald Trump's hasn't commented on what happened

21:04

in Baltimore, and in fact there has

21:06

been criticism from Democrats including the Transportation

21:08

Secretary Pete Buddha Judge who is speaking

21:11

recently said look, President Trump's should show

21:13

solidarity with these workers and he hasn't

21:15

done so that we don't know necessarily

21:17

why hasn't commented just yet, But we

21:20

haven't heard any words from the former

21:22

President who is quip prolific of course

21:24

on social media and on various other

21:26

topics. On this one in particular,

21:28

it could be that oh, this isn't

21:31

an issue that she is engaging with

21:33

because he doesn't see an opportunity to

21:35

do so. Look, it's a terrible, terrible

21:37

tragedy. Although some Republicans have criticised Joe

21:39

Biden and has criticized the leadership in

21:41

Maryland for somehow having some responsibility for

21:43

what happened, it's clear to say that

21:45

this was an accident and we still

21:48

have to wait and see what happened.

21:50

So in a way yes, this is

21:52

has been an opportunity for President Biden

21:54

to be on the scene quickly to

21:56

show. For federal support and also talk

21:58

about infrastructure. Which is one of the favorite

22:01

things to talk about, but I think it

22:03

hasn't been as politicize in terms of what

22:05

happens that when it comes to funding for

22:07

who will pay for the cleanup and the

22:09

bridge that has become our politicised. Birds.

22:17

Just elaborate then on the on the

22:19

potential costs them as signs. I was

22:22

quite a wide spectrum. Why the people's

22:24

estimates so different? They really have. Very.

22:27

Little I leave haven't really given a public

22:29

assessment of how with the total cost of

22:31

the entire incident will be, but on the

22:33

high end they've said it could be as

22:35

higher higher than a billion dollars which is

22:37

an enormous amount of money that has to

22:39

come from somewhere else. And I think

22:41

the question of liabilities also such a

22:43

big one, we're already seeing a battle

22:45

over that. and you know you have

22:47

a a foreigner flagged ship, You have

22:49

insurance who are in Europe and you

22:51

have the the of the workers and

22:53

here is in Maryland and sell. It

22:55

is so so complex to picks that

22:57

apart we've already seen I think the

22:59

ships owner and managing company that has

23:01

filed here and court in the Us

23:04

to limit their liability to around forty

23:06

four million dollars based on a very

23:08

old law and that's going to be.

23:10

A massive battle. The probably will be more lawsuits

23:12

as well. So if you add that on to

23:14

the costs of actually eat out there recovery and

23:16

then on top of that rebuilding a bridge, we

23:18

really don't have a good idea of how high

23:20

a sum of money is gonna be. And.

23:23

Sumi, you just raise an issue there

23:25

which is that this different time scales

23:27

operating here. so does the need for

23:29

their to be a replacement bridge as

23:31

soon as possible. And then there's the

23:33

U S Legal system which is not

23:35

known for being quick. That's. Absolutely

23:38

right. And I think when it comes to

23:40

that suit that has been filed on behalf

23:42

of the ships owning company and Madison company

23:44

that the court in Baltimore has to give

23:46

a response by September. From what I understand,

23:48

and so you know, we're talking about several

23:50

months from now, While at the same time,

23:53

the Governor Westmore and the President promised that

23:55

within the next two months or so they

23:57

want to have at least some ability to

23:59

open the. For it and then start

24:01

talking about the structure itself. So there

24:03

are different time scales and we don't

24:05

really know how long this could go

24:07

on the we could be talking about

24:09

this also the legal ramifications of it

24:11

for years from. Now and the investigation of

24:13

course agree that that something that could take

24:16

the money been given a timeframe. You could

24:18

be weeks or were months to figure out

24:20

exactly what happened and a mean them. In

24:22

the meantime the sailors are still on board

24:24

while Denzel happening to the another aspect. Of.

24:26

The isn't a fascinating to think as these

24:29

men who are still on board during this

24:31

entire ordeal just with the experiences in life

24:33

for them to imagine being in their mindset.

24:35

Yeah, the guy that I'm just back up a

24:37

second guys can just backup a second here. sort

24:39

of. The people have the ship are still who

24:42

are working on the ship when her are still

24:44

there. Oh very very much so. and they've been

24:46

given know kind of indication of when they'll be

24:48

able to step off your even on regular circumstances.

24:51

Stepping off the ship in the Us board is

24:53

quite complicated. You need a visa, you need a

24:55

short pass, you need an escort to and from

24:57

the ship and the gate of the port. But

25:00

of course now these men are involved in a

25:02

very serious investigation into an incident with six people

25:04

died. So that adds. Another complication and know

25:06

I spoke to one of the men

25:08

from a some be called mission to

25:10

seafarers. the ministers in different ports around

25:12

the world is the British organization actually

25:14

and he was actually had had gone

25:16

and and met with them and he

25:18

said while they were in good spirits

25:20

you know especially in the immediate aftermath

25:22

of the accident they didn't have any

25:24

communication with the outside world so they

25:26

didn't know it's are people holding us

25:29

responsible for this, what are people saying

25:31

about us while or whatever or families

25:33

back home same so they were least

25:35

in. The Dark: For the first few days now

25:37

they've been given kind of wife I hot spots.

25:39

At. Least they're able to communicate with their families

25:42

back home and with people here in the

25:44

Us but must have been of out on

25:46

awful few days on board it. It's dangerous

25:48

I'm in the camp. they're not exactly free

25:50

to move around the ship necessarily. It's an

25:52

experience I think we won't hear about for

25:54

quite some time until it gets his best

25:56

occasion is over. But with they've gone through

25:58

is also another. Durable aspect of us.

26:03

And Burn. I can see some political risk

26:06

for President Biden here because he's takes quite

26:08

a law as as you were referring to

26:10

earlier on on improving America's infrastructure and he

26:13

may wealth succeed in that missions. But

26:15

if is this massive symbol of a collapsed

26:17

and on rebuilt bridge steering all Americans in

26:19

the face then he will not get any

26:22

credit for doing it. And and and I

26:24

imagine that's something that Donald Trump is presumptive

26:26

opponent would seize upon. But it's also give

26:28

you one, think of it, the other wait.

26:31

There's also a lot of rewards here. I

26:33

mean Joe. Biden is also very proudly

26:35

a pro Union president and he's very

26:37

quick to remind people of that We're

26:39

gonna move heaven and earth to rebuild

26:41

his first. As. Rapidly as

26:44

humanly possible. And. We're

26:46

gonna do so with union labor

26:48

and Americans. It. And

26:50

eaten for the Baltimore. There's a

26:53

thousand people employed. Many. Of

26:55

whom are in unions. If he is seen as

26:57

kind of been supportive of reopening that port and

26:59

and both during their job prospects, I think that

27:01

works in his favor to a certain regard. and

27:04

and I was at that event he was. That

27:06

on on April fifth and you were already started.

27:08

seen the beginnings of that same the on. The

27:10

most important thing here is to get Baltimore back

27:13

to work and rebuild Baltimore. So if if he

27:15

manages that in a timely fashion as he hoped

27:17

it out, there is undecided voters that would see

27:19

that thing. You know he's doing exactly what he

27:22

said he could do. Anything

27:26

he says, it's really nice.

27:29

Ethics Gusto Phone. And

27:33

thank you for listening including a

27:35

Judas who's been insists from Colorado

27:37

and Daniela who listens to us

27:40

from and I'm pushing her message

27:42

a very sunny and hot alone

27:44

yes in Italy and if you

27:46

would like to contact us you

27:49

can send us a text or

27:51

a voice note on what's that

27:53

are number is plus four four

27:55

three three zero one two three

27:57

nine for eight zero or you

28:00

can sense the email and the

28:02

address is the global story at

28:04

bbc.com Wherever you're listening in the

28:06

world, this has been the global

28:08

story. Thank you very much for

28:11

having us and your headphones. I.

28:24

If there's one thing that my family and friends

28:26

know me for, it's being an amazing gift giver.

28:29

I owe it all to Celebrations Passport

28:31

from 1800flowers.com, my

28:33

one-stop shopping site that has amazing gifts

28:35

for every occasion. With Celebrations Passport, I

28:37

get free shipping on thousands of amazing

28:39

gifts. And the more gifts I give,

28:42

the more perks and rewards I earn.

28:44

To learn more and take your gift

28:46

giving to the next level, visit 1800flowers.com/ACAST.

28:50

That's 1800flowers.com/ACAST.

28:55

Goodness. Tired

28:58

of ads barging into your favorite news

29:00

podcasts? Good news. Stay.

29:03

Ad free listening on Amazon Music is included

29:05

with your Prime membership. That.

29:10

amazon.com/news ad free to catch

29:12

up on the latest episodes

29:14

without. The ads.