0:00

Hello and welcome to this podcast

0:02

from the BBC World Service. Please

0:04

let us know what you think and tell

0:07

other people of Isis on social media. Podcasts

0:09

from the BBC World Service. are

0:12

supported by advertising. Even.

0:16

When we're on a budget, we still deserve nice

0:18

things. Quince. Is a place

0:21

a scoop of studying high and goods for

0:23

thirty to eighty percent less and similar brands.

0:25

They. Have bought a sought cashmere sweater

0:28

starting at fifty dollars, luxurious Italian leather

0:30

bags, and so much more. Plus.

0:33

Quince Only worth of factories that you

0:35

save Ethical. I'm responsible Manufacturing. Get.

0:37

The high and goods you'll love with out the

0:39

high price tag with Quince. Go. To

0:41

queens.com/style for free shipping and three

0:44

hundred and sixty five day returns.

0:46

These discussions with paramilitaries were

0:48

a play with them. Remarkable

0:50

personal stories from around the

0:52

world. Leaders be with words,

0:54

they speak with guns. Lives

0:56

less ordinary from the Bbc

0:58

World Service. Find it wherever

1:00

you get your Bbc podcasts.

1:06

Hello I'm Kathy Adler from the

1:08

Bbc World Service. This is the global

1:10

story. Monday

1:14

to Friday we focus on one story in

1:16

detail with the help of the B B

1:18

C's best journalists. Today.

1:21

A seat at the table of

1:23

Europe's top crime bosses and twenty

1:25

twenty law enforcement agencies across Europe

1:28

were given an incredible opportunity when

1:30

French police managed to blow opened

1:33

the highly encrypted phone network and

1:35

cray chat that allowed crime agencies

1:37

across Europe to see more than

1:40

a hundred million messages exchanged, the

1:42

monks, high level criminals, an unprecedented

1:44

bank of evidence against some of

1:47

the Continent most notorious drug dealers,

1:49

money launderers. And people smugglers.

1:52

Now. The Bbc has gained access to

1:54

ten thousand of those messages relating to

1:57

one crime family in the British city

1:59

of Live. On

2:01

this episode, we hear how two

2:03

brothers instill fear through chilling violence

2:05

and how their plots. For. Revenge plans

2:08

by Sony. It's ultimately Stick Them

2:10

in that. With.

2:16

Me is prone to Monroe a

2:19

reporter who's been investigating the story

2:21

for the Bbc Panorama program Can

2:23

Morning hello Now you are South

2:25

I'd Sharp Edge and you know

2:28

a lot about crime. So in

2:30

terms of crime reporting, where does

2:32

this story set in? How big

2:34

is it? Well to use the

2:37

words of the experts that we've

2:39

been speaking t they say it

2:41

is the biggest law enforcement operation

2:43

of a generation. So he spoke

2:45

to my. Horn who wears the

2:48

Uk need to in terms of

2:50

organizing the and could had operation

2:52

that took place on T said

2:54

it was a. Game changer.

2:57

Negates. The whole of the law

2:59

enforcement community on Power allowed access. To

3:02

the inner workings of organized crime

3:04

in a way that was completely

3:06

unprecedented. An almost industrial scale. For

3:08

the first time law enforcement and

3:10

countries across the world. we're getting

3:12

a seat at the table with

3:14

criminals. And when I say a

3:16

seat at the table I mean

3:19

they were in the inner sanctum

3:21

because they were inside the phone's

3:23

off the criminals and they were

3:25

literally hearing and seeing every single

3:27

thing Those criminals. Were doing to

3:29

run their organizations. So.

3:32

When you say inside the phone submit,

3:34

it's intriguing. It's intriguing is that let's

3:36

talk about Anchorage Shot because some of

3:39

our listeners may have heard of Act

3:41

and Cry Chat and some may not

3:43

have, but it's as he say. I

3:46

mean it was so fundamentals in. Terms

3:48

of the opportunity to created for

3:50

law enforcement. So seeing as well

3:52

as hearing presumably these a foetus

3:55

tell us festival Moody's and. Fitch

3:57

us. Ankara

4:04

Cat was an encrypted. Telephone

4:07

Communications system used by approximately sixty

4:09

stories and people worldwide. Most of

4:11

the were criminals and most of

4:14

the uses of the phone with

4:16

for criminal enterprise. so this was

4:19

just like a normal handset. the

4:21

you wouldn't have lived twice at

4:23

Bought. For me, the real top

4:26

tier criminals got access to them.

4:28

They were almost like a status

4:31

symbol for the criminals that uses

4:33

them. It weighs one of a

4:35

number of encrypted. Communication systems that

4:37

were own offer were inside but it

4:40

was the one that to peak the

4:42

interest of the friends on the ducks

4:44

and the english and it was those

4:46

countries that events me then took die

4:49

not communication system. It it had

4:51

something cool to to rest. Code is

4:53

is that right for enough so is

4:55

at any point the criminal that had

4:57

this. Phone. Was stopped.

5:00

That. What they could do is turn

5:02

it into work like another phone. So.

5:04

That if anybody took the phone

5:06

they would never know that it

5:09

was actually an encrypted device. But

5:11

what it also hard was another

5:13

code that could be entered by

5:15

the criminal and the minute that

5:17

that code was entered it completely

5:19

wiped and disabled the phone. So

5:21

if they were stopped and they

5:23

were quick thinking this criminal would

5:25

buy all intensive purposes be compliant.

5:28

Type. In the pin number and yet

5:30

what he was actually doing was

5:32

a reading any trace of criminality

5:34

from his phone. They basically

5:36

thought that this system was untouchable.

5:38

An unbreakable. you'll say, not quite

5:41

matter of factly bet you know

5:43

what's in your documentary where you

5:45

know of various points you you've

5:47

have on the screen, the messages

5:49

that were exchanged between really high

5:52

level criminals. sometimes I just i

5:54

exclaimed outloud like. I. Don't believe

5:56

that I'm in so comfortable

5:58

to say. Well. Everything

6:00

from mean I basically. All

6:03

during an attack on

6:05

arrival criminal organization. To

6:07

chatting about the sums birthdays or

6:09

in a taking Celsius with fast

6:11

cause I mean I've worked in

6:13

crime. Ny for over twenty years. And

6:16

I wouldn't go so far as a takes a

6:18

lot to suck me you know. But.

6:20

I have not stopped reading these

6:22

ten thousand messages that we got

6:24

since the day we lost them

6:26

and I'd still. Can't. Believe.

6:29

How. They talked about killing

6:32

people. I

6:34

want to rip them apart with

6:36

my hands, head, legs, teeth, Then

6:40

we decide whether we flush him,

6:42

chop his fingers off, or whatever.

6:45

Last across the face and smashed his eyes

6:47

in and to call for new tom. Play

6:49

They intermingled that was talking about having

6:51

the kids over and haven't been sick.

6:54

Ah, select the back. It's

6:56

these crime boss says as as

6:58

we know from these messages. Felt

7:01

so comfortable. How. Was

7:03

it compromised? It's just extraordinary is

7:05

really genius relief. The law enforcement

7:07

agencies in France and the Netherlands

7:10

became aware of this includes had

7:12

system and what they did was

7:14

in place a mile were in

7:17

the communication system and what I

7:19

did was a to dine. All.

7:22

Of the messages that had been

7:24

stored on the devices, Know.

7:26

We are talking hundreds

7:28

of millions of messages

7:30

from international criminals and

7:32

it literally laid bare

7:34

why they did business.

7:37

Anything from organizing international

7:39

drug smuggling, To. Hiring

7:42

hitman to travel

7:44

arrangements everything. Windows,

7:46

Messages were drawn died by

7:48

the French and Dutch. They

7:50

then pass them to the

7:52

relevant organizations within countries. So

7:55

the National Crime you didn't

7:57

see the Uk National Crime

7:59

Agency. They were passed hundreds

8:01

of millions of messages. About

8:03

Uk criminals. And

8:06

then they disseminated them

8:08

to the regional law

8:10

enforcement officers. That would dealing with

8:12

each of these criminals. And.

8:15

Then as I understand there was

8:17

an urgency to as about acting within

8:19

a certain time wins at white ones

8:21

that. So. When and

8:23

the law enforcement agencies got access, they

8:26

knew that they would be under pressure

8:28

because it would only take so long

8:30

before they began to see and hear

8:32

things that they would have to act

8:35

on. For example, the was dressed the

8:37

life happening within these messages that they

8:39

couldn't ignore work so they were constantly

8:41

working to disrupt those threats and lives

8:44

that were happening in the messages. But

8:46

they also knew that I was only

8:48

a matter of time before the telecommunications

8:50

network itself and Coach hadn't realized. That

8:53

there was a problem. So the police

8:55

were actively trying to disrupt. The criminal

8:57

Behavior. Day, then all the

9:00

see we're becoming suspicious and then

9:02

after that six week period it

9:04

was June thirteenth Day Encryption Network

9:06

sent a message to all it's

9:08

users to say that the system

9:10

had been sacked. They had to

9:12

turned on their phones and. Smash.

9:15

Them: Get Rid Of them. Destroy

9:17

them because they had been rumbled

9:19

essentially. On. That morning in June.

9:21

When all of these highly,

9:24

highly sophisticated criminals top tier

9:26

criminals got that message to

9:29

say. The. Phone has been

9:31

hacked. I. Would give anything to

9:33

be a fly on the wall that day.

9:35

Because. I've spoken to criminals in the

9:38

world and is just so many stories

9:40

of criminal telling me that they were

9:42

first of all a guy that has

9:44

been hoc. They really thought they were

9:46

untouchable. And then the next thing

9:49

is sheer panic. said it was handsets been

9:51

sworn in the river they with hands has

9:53

been smashed and the next thing was happening

9:55

was sick. He says we're being packed and

9:57

some were fleeing, others were sitting tight because

9:59

the. Didn't quite believe.

10:02

That. They'd been hacked so they were almost of the

10:04

out as except as quiet as a mice. And maybe

10:06

if they don't get me. None.

10:08

Of the criminals had any idea just

10:11

how much they had been infiltrated. And

10:13

how much information the police had on them.

10:15

And it was only months later when the

10:18

arrest started. To roll light. That. Criminals

10:20

Oxy understood how big the breach was

10:22

a thing called the biggest and most

10:24

significant nor enforcement operation as a carried

10:26

out in the Uk and it all

10:28

centers around this what looks like a

10:30

new what was happening. Was. It

10:32

They were being convicted on their own words.

10:35

They were literally been caught by the room

10:37

Words, which is an extraordinary term for law

10:39

enforcement to have. At I

10:41

mean extraordinary words and I really have

10:43

a seat needs of of us once

10:45

mate light serious crimes but this is

10:47

gonna make one heck of a Hollywood.

10:49

Movie at some point. Let's

10:52

have a note at a

10:54

family than that you spent

10:56

a very long time investigating

10:58

Brainer Wilkie. Approximately one hundred

11:00

million messages on Anchorage shots

11:02

across Europe. The Bbc go

11:04

specific access to Ten. Thousand

11:06

of those as you've told us.

11:09

And. They have to do

11:11

an investigation into a particular crime

11:13

family in the Uk Tennis about

11:15

him. So I was looking at

11:17

this crime family for the last

11:19

couple of years because they seem

11:21

onto my radar. To. A

11:23

young child been killed in Liverpool.

11:27

A Man Humps is underway in Liverpool after

11:29

a nine. Year old girl was

11:31

shot dead. Police has named her

11:33

as and Livia Pratt Cobell. She

11:36

was caught in the crossfire of

11:38

a gangland hits and I started

11:40

to look at the from that

11:42

worked in that area. And

11:45

they were no as the heightened from. The

11:47

heightened from with a highly secretive

11:50

organized crime grip. It

11:52

was run by two brothers,

11:54

Francis and Vincent Coggins. They

11:56

have remained under the radar.

11:58

For thirty years. One of

12:00

their brothers, Vincent Coggins was based

12:02

in the Uk. And. He

12:05

ran their operations in the brother. Francis

12:07

Coggins hasn't yet been arrested and is

12:09

believed to be. On the run, These.

12:15

Two brothers were in charge

12:17

of an internationally top tier

12:20

drug trafficking operation. On.

12:22

I worked and worked in the area to

12:25

try and get people to help me identify

12:27

them were tell me what they were doing,

12:30

It was just a wall of silence and

12:33

we couldn't quite figure rights. Hi,

12:35

they'd been caught because they're so

12:37

highly secretive. On

12:39

Sam we realized that it was the ankle

12:41

task and we realize that the was the

12:44

potential to get these ten thousand messages. The

12:48

trials lasted for. Years. And

12:50

the last trial started just very

12:52

recently and in that trial because

12:55

that person didn't plead guilty, we

12:57

got access to some of the

12:59

evidence that was gonna be used

13:01

to convict him. Swear

13:04

these ten thousand messages come from.

13:06

And that's why we find out

13:08

First, the ferociousness and violence of

13:10

this organized crime dying. And

13:13

to despise have here they were and what

13:15

level they were stuff. When.

13:19

You talk about the violence. Her:

13:21

I think I mean as a

13:23

Brit myself, I think that we

13:25

think of Uk crime stories is

13:27

quite tame compared to some other

13:30

international crime stories. But we're not

13:32

talking about low levels of crime

13:34

and violence. How are we in

13:36

this case? No, I don't think

13:38

that anybody can be under any

13:41

illusions abides. hi organized crime works

13:43

in any country. You. Know

13:45

they have access to weapons

13:48

hand grenades, scorpio, machine guns,

13:50

Glocks, An endless supply

13:52

of them, You know, an endless

13:55

supply also of young people trying

13:57

to get into that criminal world

13:59

that are willing to commit murder,

14:01

uncommitted, serious acts of violence.world cannot

14:03

operate on less, there is violence.

14:05

and I've been working in crime

14:07

for twenty years, and I don't

14:09

think I've come across an organization

14:11

quite as for Roses as this

14:13

organized crime group. And. Mean

14:15

you have a boss who we me,

14:18

I'm in the program that we need

14:20

to have been involved in at least

14:22

one murder. He strenuous. He denies this.

14:24

Of course. you also have his relationship

14:27

with an enforcer. And

14:29

this enforcer we've connected to

14:31

to potential murders? He.

14:34

Sculpt A Woman. And when

14:36

he did.he cited Apache. You know

14:39

this is the way these men

14:41

do business and one of their

14:43

modus operandi issue and color thought.

14:46

Is. That rather than go straight to the person

14:48

they want to get out, they would go to

14:50

the family members of that person. And.

14:52

They would commit acts of violence. On.

14:55

The family member in order to punish

14:57

or get to that person. Even.

15:00

Criminals from that world. Were.

15:03

I would say disgusted

15:05

at once This. Group

15:07

of criminals were prepared to do. I.

15:09

Mean these men have as you explain in

15:12

your reporting a long history of crime.

15:14

a kind of goes quiet around them. Partly

15:16

because nobody speaks. But there's

15:18

a sense that perhaps they were protected

15:20

from the inside as well, and that

15:23

something also the Anchorage has helped prevail.

15:25

We saw repeatedly. Messages. That

15:27

these big crime bosses. Had.

15:30

A potential police insider.

15:32

That they contacted. To.

15:34

Give them information on what

15:36

the police were actually doing

15:38

and gathering on them. And.

15:41

That gives them an advantage at let

15:43

them know if they're on places. We

15:45

had our and you see repeatedly through

15:48

the messages the crime boss asking for.

15:50

A printed or a returns. And

15:52

what he wanted to know from the police insider

15:55

was. What? To the police have on me?

15:57

Do I need to get our side? Do. I need

15:59

to be worried. And. Although

16:01

you do not see anything been

16:03

handed over, The message is

16:06

clearly alludes to information having been

16:08

handed over in the past. And

16:11

your mates properly look into things on file.

16:13

Ask him to go deep. Computer

16:16

man saying tons of new stuff on

16:18

my file. What He sees them

16:20

constantly asking him for the information.

16:23

He sang life in the offices too difficult but

16:25

the someone else is just been caught doing the

16:27

same thing. So. He can take a school

16:29

night and take a picture. So. It just

16:32

tells you Operationally, they were very shrewd.

16:34

They knew that they needed to stay

16:36

one step ahead. Say.

16:40

We've. Looked at how and coach have

16:42

operated. hat was cracks by French police

16:45

and information said. With colleagues brought including

16:47

He taste. And now I want

16:49

to see how it is that law

16:51

enforcement zones in on the heightened some.

17:03

The living room is where you make

17:05

life's most beautiful memories by yourself. I

17:07

shouldn't be the one remembering them. A

17:10

new life resist and high performance furniture

17:12

collection from Ashley is designed to withstand

17:14

all this still slip ups and muddy

17:17

paws that come with the best parts

17:19

of lies. Ashley I perform and sell

17:21

says in the cleaners are soft on

17:24

sand and easy to clean shot the

17:26

high performance furniture in store or online

17:28

and ashley.com Ashley for the love of

17:31

home. Chasing

17:33

Mountains is the story of five

17:35

incredible mountaineers competing to become the

17:38

first woman to climb all fourteen

17:40

and the world's highest mountain the

17:43

so called an Eight Thousand or

17:45

pitting themselves against nature on the

17:47

rest of the wow Amazing sports.

17:50

Story and the Bbc World Service. And

17:52

listen Now wherever you get your Bbc.

18:08

This is a global story. We bring

18:10

you one big international story in the

18:12

South five days a week. Follow or

18:15

subscribe wherever. You listen with me.

18:17

Today is investigative reporter Burrow to

18:19

Monroe We took out the heightened

18:21

firmness crime fum these two brothers

18:23

and particular face and Liverpool in

18:25

the United Kingdom just before we

18:27

we move on. I just want

18:29

sex and to such as is

18:31

based in Liverpool in the Uk

18:33

Bus This is a crime family

18:36

that spread internationally. This is international

18:38

crime were talking about here. Absolutely

18:40

when you talk about drug crime

18:42

in the Uk. You

18:44

cannot have a group that successful

18:46

with. I'd some kind of an

18:48

international footprint because they have to

18:51

trust the drugs and and this

18:53

crime organization were no difference. They

18:55

had put holes and spin from

18:57

the early nineties where they move

18:59

themselves to start their business. They

19:02

were importing that cigarettes from China.

19:04

they had people in car to

19:06

hang, yet they hired someone based

19:08

in the Netherlands that we're looking

19:10

after containers. They'd someone in North

19:13

Africa who was working. With them

19:15

to throw drugs on to their shipment

19:17

to get it into the Uk. So

19:19

they had their fingers in many ways.

19:21

So. Grown as the heightened Sam

19:24

These two brothers that you were

19:26

telling us about in the Anchorage

19:28

Messages The East seen. It focuses

19:30

on one particular episode that's been

19:32

used in evidence Against And that

19:34

can you tell us what the

19:36

event was started? It All of

19:38

this all started in May Twenty

19:40

Twenty Night. For context, this is

19:42

luck. Done through. See me. I must give

19:45

the British people a very simple. Instructions.

19:48

You. Must stay at home. So

19:50

people canton these as freely as they would

19:52

move. The can't meet as freely as they

19:55

would meet. On the criminals were more

19:57

and more been driven to use the phones. So.

19:59

What? Happens is that tree masked

20:02

man arrive at one of

20:04

their crime groups stash houses.

20:07

And. A fourth is pretending to deliver

20:09

parcels. On. What they do is

20:11

they rob the drugs at that stash

20:13

has on it's a million pines worth

20:15

of cookie In the long and to

20:18

the heightened from the Coggins brothers winning

20:20

get Inside They attacked the two men

20:22

minding the drugs with a machete and

20:25

an axe. And as a

20:27

trail of blood all over the heist when the

20:29

please turn up. One officer.

20:31

Oh. Nice

20:35

for injuries have you got with. To

20:38

set yourself though, And. So our

20:40

story on phone is. Almost.

20:43

In a way that the robbery

20:45

unfolds. Have any idea of

20:47

oh from Florence? Are you in

20:49

dispute with a month? And

20:52

if you upset anyone lately always anybody got a with but

20:55

a beef with. And. Information's better

20:57

than nothing. A

20:59

couple of hours later they realize

21:01

their drugs have been taken on.

21:03

The two brothers in charge or

21:05

discuss and hide dare anybody com

21:07

and Rob there's nice has such

21:10

as their reputation in their thirst

21:12

to get revenge. They'd. Be

21:14

As Ugly set forth a series of

21:16

messages organizing hi, they're going to kill

21:18

these man. Took

21:21

me three days to find out who

21:23

we go to was I'm going to

21:25

kill him and his from. So.

21:27

In one exchange after the robbery

21:29

has taken place, the crime boss

21:32

messages his enforcer and is enforcer

21:34

com voc and says. I'll

21:37

kill him with you mates. So when

21:39

the dust settles, how many people you

21:41

want killed? Four

21:44

dead men walking. And then

21:46

there's an exchange between the two bites. Have they

21:48

got enough guns to do than to do they

21:50

have the people of the above and do they

21:52

have the cars and what they clearly decide is

21:55

that. but everything we need to operation he carried

21:57

out with are just gonna let the cities and

21:59

cool off. it before they do

22:01

what they're going to do. When

22:04

the time is right we smash them. I'll

22:08

kill them in a few months when it's all

22:10

calmed down. At the same time

22:12

you've got the police sitting outside that

22:14

world watching it happen. So you've got

22:17

the police knowing that this ever increasing

22:19

threat to life is happening. But

22:22

what happens is that they identify the

22:24

wrong people and they set out to

22:26

kill a father and

22:28

son who they decide have

22:31

robbed a stash house. And what you see

22:33

is the police trying to actively prevent the

22:36

killing of these two men. No one

22:38

is ever killed. No one is ever

22:40

convicted of murder or attempted murder

22:43

because the police have disrupted it and they

22:45

claim that this is all bravado. The

22:47

man that they've accused is so frightened

22:49

of a heightened firm. He

22:51

basically agrees to sign over his house and

22:55

pay for the stolen drugs simply

22:57

because he's so frightened of these

22:59

brothers. My

23:01

solution involves me and me alone paying

23:03

the bills. I

23:06

would never go back on my word. It's

23:08

all over if money paid. I promise you.

23:10

So off the back of the stash house robbery

23:13

in total over 30 serious criminals

23:15

have now been convicted. The people

23:17

that robbed the stash house, the

23:19

Coggins brothers and their firm who

23:22

seek retribution to get their drugs back.

23:24

You also have the people that bought

23:26

the drugs, the people that moved those

23:28

drugs on to be sold and you

23:31

have the people who imported the drugs.

23:33

So you have the sprawling network of

23:35

criminals and they've received over 350 years

23:38

of prison sentence as a result of it.

23:44

These messages on anchor chat use

23:46

and evidence against criminals including these

23:48

guys in the UK. They felt

23:50

very comfortable on anchor chat but

23:52

they didn't use their own names

23:54

to spy that. So the anchor

23:56

chat system was designed to be

23:58

anonymous. So some of the Those

24:00

that we came across were and moonlit

24:02

boat without was Vincent Pagans. he was

24:04

the crime boss. And other

24:06

one was next Jets that was

24:09

his brother Francis Carbons. So those

24:11

that handles gives the user a

24:13

level of anonymity. Which helps

24:15

people when it comes to court because one

24:17

of the mean things that you find ny

24:19

in the court cases that are coming off

24:21

the back of Encouters. Is. That you

24:24

have to systematically prove films, what handle

24:26

and so helpful He said with the

24:28

criminals would send photographs of themselves. In

24:31

our case they handed either date of

24:33

birth because they wanted a please read

24:35

out they send photographs of their coffee

24:38

machines. They talked about. Cooking their

24:40

crispy duck. right? You know

24:42

they did all of that side by side with talking

24:44

about murder and has to undies. The.

24:46

Was one potentially significant spanner

24:48

in the works. There isn't

24:50

that brain that because some

24:52

of those convicted elsewhere in

24:54

the Uk says disputed whether

24:56

the and creature evidence is

24:58

actually legal. Well, first off,

25:01

the criminals themselves are wholly

25:03

unsatisfied. Ah, the way

25:05

that these messages were gathered,

25:07

they say the system was

25:09

hacked and that these were

25:11

taken inlays time they were

25:13

intercepted. And as such,

25:15

cannot be used as evidence, can

25:17

only be used as intelligence. For.

25:19

Example: if you had a wiretap,

25:22

often law enforcement agencies would put

25:24

listening devices into cars into Jose

25:26

is anywhere really and if that

25:28

information is taken, it could only

25:31

be used as intelligence. It's an

25:33

Ops and gold mine of intelligence.

25:36

But. It can't ever be used in evidence

25:38

and be. Served to a jury.

25:40

They. Have challenge this to the highest

25:42

courts in the land and the courts

25:45

have upheld. Hi. The information

25:47

was gathered they National Crime

25:49

Agency irons. The French and

25:51

the Dutch say that the

25:54

messages were not intercepted. They

25:56

were harvested from the stories

25:58

on the devices. prior

26:00

to our post sending and

26:03

they are refuting any allegation

26:06

that anything illegal was done in

26:08

terms of how the messages were

26:10

harvested. These are arrests in

26:12

the UK, do you have an idea of

26:14

a more international picture and of course legal

26:17

systems vary between the UK and what

26:19

we're talking about here in other European

26:21

countries? Europol, they are

26:23

saying over six and a half

26:25

thousand suspects have been arrested with

26:28

over 7,000 years of imprisonment

26:31

of criminals. These

26:33

were the criminals that the police

26:35

normally couldn't get to because

26:37

they're so far up the food chain

26:39

that it's almost impossible to get them.

26:42

Even if this didn't result in the

26:44

arrest of these criminals what it did

26:46

was it laid bare how they

26:49

did business in a way that was

26:51

unprecedented. It gives supply routes how

26:54

they shipped, how they flew stuff, where

26:56

their points of contact were in

26:58

which countries, how they were smuggling

27:00

stuff through the ports. In

27:03

terms of the intelligence the benefit will

27:05

go on for years to come.

27:07

Brona thank you so much you've opened up

27:09

a whole new world. Thanks for your time.

27:11

Not at all, thank you. For

27:16

listeners in the UK you can find

27:18

details of Brona's Panorama episode, The Crime

27:20

Bosses Who Terrorized the City in our

27:22

show notes. If you're elsewhere in the world

27:24

and want to hear more about EncroChat search

27:27

for the BBC's fascinating six-part

27:29

series Catching the Kingpins wherever

27:31

you get your podcasts. Do

27:34

get in touch with us by email

27:36

at theglobalstory at bbc.com or you can

27:38

always send us a message or a

27:40

voice note on WhatsApp. Our number is

27:43

plus four four three three zero one

27:45

two three nine four eight oh. Wherever

27:47

you're listening in the world this has been the

27:50

Global Story. Thanks for having us in

27:52

your headphones. Goodbye. Hey.

28:02

It's Danny Pellegrino from everything iconic,

28:04

ready to upgrade your style game

28:06

without blowing your budget. Set up

28:08

Quince. They've got all the good

28:10

stuff shirts and polo's active were

28:12

and fine leather goods all at

28:14

fifty to eighty percent less than

28:16

other high end brands. And the

28:18

best part? they're all about safe

28:20

at the goal and responsible manufacturing.

28:22

Get that luxury bible without the

28:24

luxury price tags that up quince.com/upgrade

28:26

for free shipping and three hundred

28:28

sixty by day returns and your

28:30

next order? That's Quince. Dot Com/of

28:32

the. Middle aged

28:35

cheddar two shape L a

28:37

very sensitive, bad allergies as

28:39

he was something. Remarkable

28:42

personal stories told by the

28:44

people that lived them. Neat.

28:46

Down and civic duty to had

28:48

carried she might see always on

28:50

he might feel they still plays

28:53

or recently and at it see.

28:55

A ration displacing pamphlets from

28:57

a length lives less ordinary

28:59

from the Bbc World Service.

29:01

Find it the ever you

29:03

get your Bbc port.