0:00

Hello and welcome to this podcast

0:02

from the BBC World Service. Please

0:04

let us know what you think and tell

0:07

other people of Isis on social media. Podcasts

0:09

from the BBC World Service. are

0:12

supported by advertising. I'm

0:16

Sandra and I'm just the professional your small

0:18

business was looking for. but you didn't hire

0:21

me because you didn't use linked in jobs.

0:23

Linked In has professionals you can't find anywhere

0:25

else, including those who aren't actively looking for

0:27

a new job, but might be open to

0:29

the perfect role like me. In. A

0:32

given month over seventy percent of Linked

0:34

In users don't visit other leading job

0:36

site, so if you're not looking on

0:38

linked In, you'll miss out on great

0:40

candidate like Sandra. Start hiring professionals like

0:43

a professional. Post your free job on

0:45

Linked in.com/people Today. Spring is my

0:47

favorite time to start a new workout routine.

0:49

With the weather warming up, it feels easier

0:51

to get into the rhythm of things. Whether

0:53

you have twenty minutes or an hour for

0:56

a polities class or outdoor guided walk, Pellets

0:58

On has everything you need to help you

1:00

get going. Get. A head start

1:02

on summer with Peloton at One

1:04

peloton.com. Hello!

1:08

I'm Cathy Adler from the Bbc

1:10

World Service. This is the global

1:12

story. Monday

1:15

to Friday we focus on one

1:17

story in detail with the help

1:19

of the best journalists from the

1:22

B, B, C and beyond. Not

1:24

Madame Cathedral is rising from the

1:26

ashes. It's five years since the

1:28

world watched Stunned as the grand

1:30

medieval building, an iconic symbol of

1:33

Paris, burnt tonight. Notre Dame Cathedral

1:35

is completely engulfed by fire. Of

1:37

us both, this is a national

1:39

disaster. All I can do is

1:41

pray. Emanuel, my com President, promised

1:43

the cathedral would be rebuilt in

1:46

time for this summer's Olympic and

1:48

Paralympic Games in. Paris. Know

1:50

about you want to get the the hundred for

1:52

that Will rebuild not Saddam even more beautifully and

1:54

I will it be completed in five years. but

1:57

sadly as with so many building projects

1:59

all over the world, that deadline won't

2:01

be met. Notre Dame

2:04

is scheduled to reopen, at least

2:06

partially though by the end of the

2:08

year, thanks to a massive effort by

2:10

builders, artists, historians and donors from around

2:12

the world. Today we'll

2:14

look at why, at a time of so

2:17

much destruction around the world,

2:19

this one building has attracted

2:21

so much attention, emotion and

2:24

cash close to a billion

2:26

euros in donations. With

2:32

me today is the BBC's Paris correspondent,

2:34

Hugh Schofield. Hi Hugh. Hi

2:36

Katja, hi. And also we're

2:38

joined by Madeleine Schwatz, a journalist

2:40

based in Paris. She's the editor-in-chief

2:43

of The Dial Magazine and a

2:45

regular contributor to the BBC. Hello

2:47

Madeleine. Hello. So before we

2:49

start, I'd like to take us back in

2:52

time five years to the

2:54

shock of that day when Parisians

2:56

and the world saw smoke

2:58

rising from Notre Dame Cathedral.

3:01

Hugh, you were reporting for the BBC

3:03

on the fire. This orange

3:06

conflagration leaping up into the sky

3:08

from the middle of what was

3:10

the roof. Take us back to

3:12

that moment. I remember it all very

3:14

distinctly in one way but very hazily in another. I

3:16

know exactly what happened because I

3:19

was cycling to the office and

3:21

listening to the news on one

3:24

headphone on the radio. And

3:28

then it started talking about something

3:30

happening at Notre Dame. Notre Dame,

3:32

in Paris, for the moment, we were opening

3:34

the door to the origin of the city.

3:37

And then I got closer. I

3:39

saw that there was a little crowd gathering on

3:42

the southern side of the river with a view

3:44

right across to the cathedral. And

3:46

it was the most strange thing

3:48

because the cathedral was right in front of me

3:50

and I've seen it so many times that it

3:52

was visible like it

3:54

always is and tangible right there in front of

3:56

me. And on the roof was this sort of

3:58

dancing orange blend. and growing and

4:00

around me were people who hadn't quite grasped

4:03

either what was going on and they were

4:05

people looking and pointing and Gasping and collectively

4:07

there was a kind of dawning

4:10

that this was actually you know, really

4:12

really serious So my first job

4:15

of course was to call in to

4:17

the BBC and then stand still

4:19

basically and talk Completely

4:22

gone. I can't see any roof a lot

4:24

of that debris will have fallen burning into

4:26

the interior of the building Well presumably that

4:28

a lot of the effort that's what I

4:30

had to do for the next two or

4:32

three or four hours And I just remember

4:34

having to drag from the recesses of my

4:36

brain every bit of information About

4:38

the history of Notre Dame that I could find

4:41

Madeline you actually have been inside the

4:43

cathedral as the reconstruction Process

4:46

has been underway. What was it

4:48

like seeing it under construction? I

4:50

mean it was a cathedral of

4:52

scaffolding just the sturtis. Yes So

4:55

I was there in the spring of 2021 and it really felt almost

4:59

Unrecognizable in large part because you

5:01

couldn't actually see anything of the

5:03

cathedral You know There had been

5:05

huge pieces of scaffolding built up

5:07

on the exterior and in interior

5:09

of the cathedral and people working

5:11

Absolutely everywhere, you know, you really

5:14

had the sense of the amount of energy

5:16

that's being put into this restoration What

5:19

had sort of remind oneself ones in Notre Dame

5:21

and not in the middle of some other construction

5:23

site It was

5:25

incredibly incredibly loud because of all of this

5:28

work and extremely overwhelming in a sort

5:30

of sensory way What

5:33

was really quite shocking walking through was seeing

5:35

the huge hole in the ceiling which is

5:37

surrounded by some other holes Which are the

5:39

result of the fire when the spire fell?

5:41

So Let's

5:45

fast-forward to the present day the

5:47

manual Maccon now says Notre Dame

5:49

will partially reopen on December the

5:51

8th the head of

5:53

the reconstruction project Philippe Jost

5:55

says nearly 550

5:57

million euros that's 590 million million

6:00

US dollars have been spent on the

6:02

project so far. On any

6:04

given day, more than a thousand people have

6:06

been working on Notre Dame. Many

6:09

carpenters came from the United

6:11

States, from England, from

6:14

Denmark, from Spain. They

6:16

come to work on Notre Dame and

6:19

it's a very fantastic spirit.

6:22

Two hundred and fifty companies and artist groups

6:24

have been working on the restoration. Hugh, it's

6:27

mind-boggling and you've been meeting some

6:29

of the workers, the experts and

6:31

the volunteers. Yes, we have.

6:33

And they're all dedicated,

6:35

they're all absolutely entranced

6:38

by their job and they're all delighted in a

6:40

way to have this chance, which let's face it,

6:42

it's a pretty rare one, to work on one

6:44

of those beautiful buildings in France. This

6:49

is the construction work of a lifetime because

6:52

restoring an entire monument is

6:54

quite exceptional. We see

6:56

the jungle of scaffolding going down little

6:58

by little and we'll finally be able

7:00

to see our work without the scaffolding

7:02

and that will be quite cool. The

7:05

centrepiece of it all has been, of

7:07

course, the reconstruction of the roof. It's

7:09

called that forest because there's so much

7:11

timber in the roof that it looks

7:13

like a forest. It was completely destroyed

7:16

and it went back to the Middle

7:18

Ages. What was burnt was from the

7:20

Middle Ages. They've had to reconstruct that

7:22

by chopping down about

7:25

a thousand oak trees from forests that

7:27

have been kept for this

7:29

kind of thing in different parts of France. These

7:33

trees are extraordinary. They are

7:36

more than a metre in diameter and over

7:38

220 years old.

7:41

And forgive me for using the word iconic

7:43

again, Hugh, but when we talk about wood

7:45

there was the iconic spire that collapsed so

7:47

spectacularly during the fire as well. The

7:50

spire, of course, actually wasn't original. It was

7:52

only 200 years old or so or less. But

7:55

nonetheless that was the moment which encapsulated the tragedy

7:57

of the night, was the fall of that spire.

8:00

and the reconstruction of the spire,

8:02

identical to the one which failed,

8:04

designed by D'Oleil du Duc, happened

8:06

early this year. And that's been

8:08

a massive emotional movement for the

8:10

reconstruction. And as a resident of

8:12

Paris, I could share in

8:14

it because the spire went up, surrounded of course

8:16

by scaffolding. So you couldn't see it. And then

8:18

gradually what's happened in the last sort of few

8:20

weeks is that the scaffolding around it has come

8:23

down, starting at the top. So first of all,

8:25

you saw the very, very top with the cross

8:27

and the cock, or a new cock which stands

8:29

on the top of the spire. And

8:31

then gradually, like a receding tide, the

8:34

scaffolding has come down. And now

8:36

the spire is there for us

8:38

to see. And it is literally

8:41

inspiring. Hugh,

8:45

is it right that we still don't know what caused

8:47

the fire in 2019? It's

8:50

absolutely right. And it may be that

8:52

we never know. Judicial investigations in

8:54

France are notoriously long. This is

8:56

dragging on and there's absolutely

8:59

no sign of it coming to an end. I mean, a

9:01

lot of that delay can be explained by the circumstances. I

9:03

mean, there was a huge amount of devastation. And then there

9:05

was this huge question, which of course

9:07

was part of the reconstruction problems as

9:10

well, which is that first of all, the

9:12

place had to be made safe. So there's

9:14

actually no reconstruction work for a couple of

9:16

years. So that also held up the judicial

9:18

investigation. But all we can say is that

9:21

they appear to have ruled out foul play.

9:24

The next thing is there was renovation

9:26

work going on. That was clearly one

9:28

line of investigation, but the company says,

9:30

no, it's impossible. There were no welders

9:32

or anything around at the time. They've

9:34

worked out where it started. It's up

9:36

at a higher level. And near there,

9:38

there was a sort of automatic electronic

9:40

chime system, which was used in celebration

9:43

of masses. And it should have been

9:45

removed, but it stayed there. Was that

9:47

an issue? No one knows. A cigarette,

9:49

again, people have admitted that there was

9:51

some smoking on the outside of the

9:53

building by workmen. Again, there's

9:55

no certainty in any of this. So

9:57

it may well be that they never

10:00

ever find out exactly what caused the fire.

10:08

I found this fascinating, Madeline, you've spoken

10:10

to the people trying to

10:12

perfect the acoustics of Notre Dame,

10:14

so the way it applies sounds

10:16

when it performs in the cathedral. Absolutely,

10:20

I spent about two years with

10:22

these sound researchers who have been

10:25

doing absolutely fascinating work trying to

10:27

understand the acoustics of the space.

10:30

One thing about a space like Notre Dame is

10:32

that any tiny decision that you make, because

10:35

it's replicated over such a

10:37

large building, has a huge effect on

10:39

the sound. So for example, the researchers

10:41

had found that when they installed a

10:43

carpet to reduce the sound of tourists

10:45

going in, that that had an effect

10:48

then on the way that the singer

10:50

sounded and the way that a religious service

10:52

might move through the cathedral. The

10:56

best sound for the cathedral isn't

10:59

necessarily the way that it sounded right

11:01

before the fire, and it isn't necessarily

11:03

something that everyone agrees upon because the

11:05

building has so many different uses. So

11:08

the best sound for singers isn't necessarily

11:10

actually the best sound for an audience,

11:12

and the best sound for a priest

11:14

is not necessarily the best sound for

11:17

tourists. So how do they

11:19

go about it? I mean, does it mean that there's a group

11:22

of singers who just move around the

11:24

cathedral to different spots? And then you

11:26

hear how they sound from different angles?

11:28

So how does it work? So

11:31

it's actually much more complex than that.

11:34

They've been recording singers in different kinds of

11:36

settings, taking their voices and

11:38

then putting them in different versions of the cathedral.

11:40

And when I say putting them, I mean putting

11:42

them virtually. They have an enormous

11:45

computer model of the cathedral and all of the

11:47

materials that are used to build it, which

11:50

then can be used to model how different

11:52

kinds of singing might sound.

12:00

The about the stained glass windows.

12:02

Again, I send the numbers mind

12:04

boggling. There's more than three thousand

12:06

square meters, a stained glass panels

12:09

all around the cathedral on three

12:11

levels. some senators, thirteenth centuries and

12:13

now a monument. Car had denounced

12:15

a competition for contemporary. Artists a

12:18

half ago. Yeah, what

12:20

we're saying is how much

12:22

wasn't destroyed the organ survived

12:24

broadly, the stained glass survived

12:26

and then taken out to.

12:29

Cleaned. Up and cause I cleaned up.

12:31

Not just the smoke from the fire

12:33

but this punk from you know, Generations

12:35

and generations of basses of smoke from

12:38

the candles, the condensation from the breath

12:40

of people, the dust. All of this

12:42

has meant that as soon see me

12:44

up operation on the stain glass most

12:46

of which will go back out. Some

12:48

of the same goes with his. Are

12:51

not going to go back to a

12:53

mag, be replaced by more than designs

12:55

and there's a competition has been opened

12:57

for the six sets of. Thing

12:59

glass windows and the into the has

13:01

been a little bit of a backlash

13:04

against that with an online petition saying

13:06

no we should be preserving everything I

13:08

think it's a nord by present Maccarone

13:10

to say look we we can create

13:12

beautiful things now to and we should

13:14

be putting some in the cathedral that

13:16

will go down over the years as

13:18

the sign of what happened after the

13:21

restoration of the new bit that came

13:23

in after the restoration but there are

13:25

tradition as you say that the even

13:27

this small section of new windows to.

13:29

Not be the. Sleeve.

13:32

Live sets of workers bringing. Up to

13:34

them his he tell from. The Ss and

13:37

I once understand now just what

13:39

makes this cathedral save importance to

13:41

the people of France and the

13:43

and. Millions

13:52

of people have lost me with personalized

13:54

plans from him like, and then we

13:56

can't sand salad and sell off as

13:59

the hand to. Generally for most

14:01

with all the easy done right for

14:03

me that wasn't an option I'd never

14:05

really as a salad yeah this is

14:07

not of the noom worked. With

14:10

your personalized Lance they have learned that com.

14:13

Real news or complicated to provide their swords

14:15

and four weeks to the government. Is it

14:18

an effect on the this wants to than others and of

14:20

it over the marine. Cool

14:22

fact, a crocodile can't stick out its

14:24

tongue. Also, you can get health insurance

14:26

for a month or just under a

14:29

year in some states. UnitedHealthcare short-term insurance

14:31

plans, underwritten by Golden Rule Insurance Company,

14:33

offer flexible, budget-friendly coverage for you. Learn

14:35

more at uh1.com. Visit

14:42

the global story. We bring you one

14:44

big international story in detail five days

14:46

a week. Follow or subscribe were a

14:49

few. Lessons and Take. Forget to

14:51

leave us a review with me

14:53

Is the Bbc Paris Correspondent see:

14:55

Schofield and Matlin shots from The

14:57

Dial Magazine Madelyn? Not for done.

14:59

It's an almost mythical place. It's

15:01

immortalized in the tell of the

15:03

Hunchback of Notre Dame's It's definitely

15:06

one of the landmarks for a

15:08

trip to Paris. Best in a

15:10

Paris is a city of churches

15:12

as all sorts of cathedrals, all

15:14

eyes of France. Why is not

15:16

Saddam so important to France? Noted.

15:19

Army is unique a thing in the

15:21

way that it's been tied to France's

15:23

streets. During the French Revolution, that Ram

15:25

was very, very associated with the French

15:27

monarchy and much of it was destroyed

15:30

later on in the nineteenth century. It

15:32

was completely rebuilt in large part actually

15:34

because of the had a speck of

15:36

Notre Dame would we they have now

15:38

as a kind of Disney story. But

15:40

what was a form of propaganda really

15:42

to think about restoring? Not a damn

15:45

in the state that it was in.

15:47

Victor Hugo was very very attached. To

15:49

that monument. not saddam of paris

15:51

is a sort of crime mirror among

15:53

the old searches of paris it as

15:56

the head of one the limbs have

15:58

another the crop has a phone Much

16:01

of the book is actually taken up

16:03

by these really beautiful descriptions of the

16:05

building. That architecture's greatest

16:07

products are less individual

16:09

than social creations. The

16:12

offspring of nations in labor rather

16:14

than the outpouring of men of

16:16

genius. What a lot of people

16:18

forget about the book is that it was

16:20

not called the Hunchback of Notre Dame or Quasimod.

16:22

It was called Notre Dame de Paris. That's what

16:25

its name was, but when Victor Hugo wrote it.

16:28

As exactly what Mellon says, it was a

16:30

plea for the generations, his own and the

16:32

future generations, to look after this building which

16:34

was neglected. And the other

16:36

thing to remember about it was, and I wish I'd

16:38

known this on the night of the fire, there was

16:40

a fire in the story. The

16:44

mob is chasing Quasimodo and he starts this fire

16:46

as a kind of diversion in order to try

16:48

to escape. Victor Hugo, in the

16:50

middle of his episode, describes the fire with the

16:52

flames licking up the sides of the de Closhe,

16:54

they told me all day to tell the self.

16:57

The two bell towers with its whirlwinds of sparks

16:59

and all that sort of stuff, it's

17:02

exactly the same as we saw on

17:04

the night. So it really puts it

17:06

into history. France

17:12

is a country that separates religion

17:14

and state. Liberté, Galité, Fraternité, that's

17:16

what France stands for. Religion is

17:18

not supposed to be part of

17:20

it. How religious is it? Well,

17:23

look, we live in an era when very

17:25

few people in our Western societies, Christians anyway,

17:27

or nominal Christians, are actually going to church.

17:30

So to pretend that there is

17:32

that same visceral religious attachment to

17:34

the building that there was undoubtedly

17:37

in the Middle Ages when it was

17:39

built, I think would be foolhardy and

17:41

mistaken. That said, there is

17:43

the attachment which comes from living with a

17:46

building, knowing it's been at the heart of

17:48

the city for a thousand years, knowing that

17:50

before that there was a church and a

17:52

cathedral. That existed on that spot. Before that,

17:54

going back to the beginnings of the city,

17:56

Lutecia, under the Romans, there's been a holy

17:58

building on the city. that site. It

18:01

played a role in so many

18:03

episodes in Parisian history, people

18:05

visited of course as tourists if not

18:07

as worshipers, just as something that they

18:09

feel pride in, they'll know about it

18:11

and so when it was up in

18:14

flames like that it was a huge

18:16

emotional shock for everyone. It just took

18:18

the breath away from you that something

18:20

that was so much a part of

18:22

the life of the city whose bells

18:24

had wrung out over every disaster and

18:29

every national challenge, you know

18:32

the beginning of the First World War they

18:34

sounded the bells and it was the sound

18:36

of the nation standing up and getting ready.

18:42

All this is part of the collective

18:44

memory of Parisians and even if they're not

18:47

faithful in the same way that they were

18:49

that collective memory is there

18:52

and I think made them feel this with

18:54

a visceral sense of loss

18:56

and anguish. I would just

18:58

add to that that one of the

19:00

things that makes it so powerful as

19:02

a monument is that it manages to

19:04

be sort of historically associated with both

19:06

the church and the state. I mean

19:08

the reason that it was vandalized in

19:10

the French Revolution was in large part

19:13

because of this association with the French

19:15

monarchy and of course right after the

19:17

French Revolution where did Napoleon go to

19:19

have his coronation back into Notre Dame

19:21

and so it has this very particular

19:23

history as both obviously a religious monument

19:25

but one that's very associated with French

19:27

power, French nationalism and the French

19:29

state in all of its particularities. I

19:35

remember being in Paris after

19:37

the Paris attacks at Attacun

19:39

in 2015. As

19:42

Paris suffers numerous gun and grenade

19:44

attacks leaving over two dozen people

19:46

dead. Those attacks are

19:48

seen as an attack on France by most

19:51

French citizens. You had thousands of people gathering

19:53

at Notre Dame for a memorial there.

19:56

They felt drawn to Notre

19:58

Dame in particular do you think because... because

20:00

they feel it was a symbol not just of faith

20:02

but of state. I think

20:04

everywhere in Western Europe where religion

20:07

has declined so drastically of the

20:09

Christian belief, what holds out

20:11

are cathedrals. Cathedrals become the kind of

20:13

places of choice for congregations to go,

20:16

people who feel a lingering sense of

20:18

faith and of tradition and the kind

20:20

of way that that can assuage pain.

20:23

People go to cathedrals because they have the

20:25

ancientness that helps that. And so yeah, undoubtedly,

20:28

if you're going to go anywhere on that

20:30

day and the days that followed, when you

20:32

are feeling this sense of complete disorientation

20:34

and threat and fear and sense that

20:36

we're moving to new times and new

20:39

things are happening and you feel uncertain,

20:42

you're going to go to a cathedral, you're going to go

20:44

to the place where you're rooted and

20:46

that's what people I think need at occasions like that.

20:49

There's a continuum. It was there a thousand years

20:51

ago, it's been through all sorts of travails. The

20:53

revolution was brutal. The two world wars of this

20:55

century were brutal. It's there. And

20:57

I think people draw solace from that at

20:59

difficult times. I

21:06

wonder if we step back a little

21:08

bit and ask why when buildings are

21:10

being destroyed all over the world in

21:12

tragedies and conflicts. So it might be

21:15

Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Lebanon, why the Notchadom

21:17

fire attracted so much attention and

21:20

so many donations from abroad,

21:22

but also just starting in France. Madeleine,

21:25

there was controversy wasn't there

21:27

about why so much money

21:29

was donated to Notchadom and

21:31

not to other buildings, but also other

21:33

causes in France. Yes, it's been a

21:36

very interesting debate to see because of

21:38

course after the fire there was a

21:40

huge amount of money. I think it

21:42

was 850 million, only a few days

21:45

that was pledged to this restoration, which

21:47

it sounds like from the way the

21:49

restoration is going, you know, is needed

21:52

for this particular restoration. But of course,

21:54

Notchadom is not the only building in

21:56

France that could benefit from a little

21:59

bit of TLC, nor is it the

22:01

only... aspect of France that is underfunded,

22:03

that needs more attention, that needs concerted

22:05

help from the state. And one question

22:08

that has been really ongoing throughout the

22:10

restoration is why this particular project over

22:12

all others. It's also notable

22:14

to Nia at least that the Coule des

22:17

Coules, which is the French auditory body, has

22:19

also raised questions about a lack of transparency

22:21

about where exactly these donations are going and,

22:24

you know, have called for a better need

22:26

of accounting around the Notre Dame project. I

22:29

remember the day of the fire, I

22:31

was traveling for work and I was

22:33

in a hotel room, you know, when you put on

22:36

the TV in a hotel room and you have all

22:38

the 24-hour news channels. You

22:44

can see those pictures of the flames

22:46

and the buildings smoke, we do know that

22:48

they have evacuated the area. It was amazing

22:51

to flick onto all of these channels, all

22:53

showing the fires of Notre Dame

22:59

and interviewing people, the world over

23:02

on it and the emotion, the

23:05

emotion, the world over not just in

23:07

France at seeing this cathedral

23:09

in flames. I mean, again, I find

23:11

it striking that the Friends of Notre

23:14

Dame de Paris is a non-profit raising

23:16

money for conservation of the cathedral and

23:18

it says that since 2019 it's

23:21

contributed more than 21 million dollars

23:23

to the reconstruction and just in the

23:25

days after the fire it says it

23:27

received donations from more than 10,000 people

23:30

in more than 50 countries. So it

23:32

really seems to touch hearts and minds the

23:34

world over. Of course, you're

23:36

right. You know, what's changed as well is

23:39

the instant imagery of all of this, which

23:41

meant that it could be projected into living

23:44

rooms in Tokyo, in Younde

23:46

and in Santiago de Chile at exactly

23:49

the same time, a

23:51

starker image, a starker visual

23:54

impulse. You could hardly

23:56

be imagined and of course it's going

23:58

to trigger a reaction. that was commensurate.

24:01

Mmm, as a news journalist I find

24:03

it still quite stark, you know, when there's

24:05

conflict, hunger, discrimination, refugees in the world,

24:07

but I suppose, you know, the fact that

24:09

the culture and heritage still counts for

24:11

a lot is quite moving. Well, it's a

24:14

bit of blunder. It's a

24:16

distraction for all that. Of course, what you're

24:18

saying is true that, you know, there are terrible things around

24:21

the world, maybe we should all be focusing on them, but

24:23

here was something different. And here was something

24:25

that, you know, involves not the

24:27

death of men and women, but a

24:29

building. It was in a terrible way,

24:31

that kind of escape from the ghastiness

24:33

of the world because it was something

24:35

historical, it was something

24:38

physical and something visual,

24:40

highly watchable, but that already at

24:42

the very beginning of it, a

24:44

message of hope emerging because you could

24:46

see already the plans were being laid

24:48

for reconstruction. So it was

24:51

a story which was different from the

24:53

normal grind of awfulness. It had

24:55

a tragic centre, but a hopeful conclusion. And I think

24:57

that sort of appealed to it. Yeah,

24:59

and I think that one of the reasons

25:01

that people did feel so compelled to donate

25:03

is that buildings, unlike so many of the

25:05

things that we read about on the news,

25:07

can be brought back. And in

25:09

fact, Notre Dame has been built and rebuilt so

25:12

many times over the course of its history. Of

25:14

course, this particular fire was quite devastating. But

25:17

you know, I think that there was a

25:19

good deal of optimism that in donating and

25:21

participating in the cause, that something good would

25:23

come out of it. So what I want

25:25

to know from both of you finally is

25:27

December the 8th, when the doors partially open,

25:29

will you be queuing to get in to Notre

25:31

Dame? Well, I certainly will if I'm

25:33

allowed. But I mean, I suspect it'll be a

25:36

rather controlled opening. But what I'm really looking forward

25:38

to seeing is what it looks like inside, because

25:40

from all we hear, it will

25:42

be different inside. I mean, I know it'll be

25:44

the same in many ways, but it will be

25:46

different as well because it will be cleaner and

25:49

brighter. The light will be coming in in a

25:51

new way. There'll be new furniture that everything inside

25:53

will feel different and lighter.

25:55

And I've seen people who've been

25:57

inside recently talk about it.

26:00

it having a far more luminous and

26:03

uplifting sensation and

26:06

out of this will come a new cathedral

26:08

in many ways and a newer, lighter, cleaner

26:10

interior which I think will inspire many people

26:12

and draw many people to come and see

26:15

it. I don't think that this is

26:17

a story that's going to go away on December

26:19

8th because of course the restoration work is planned

26:21

for far beyond. They're now saying 2028 or even

26:25

afterwards because even though they'll be able

26:27

to open part of the interior there's

26:29

still the entire exterior that still needs

26:31

to be worked on. So I will

26:34

be very curious to see how that goes

26:36

and what else they continue to discover and find

26:38

out about this building as they continue that

26:40

work. I hope to be there

26:42

on December the 8th and to join you both there trying

26:44

to get in and see the light. Madeline

26:46

and Hugh, thank you so much. Thank

26:49

you. Thank you. And thank you

26:51

for listening. If you want to get

26:53

in touch you can email us at

26:56

theglobalstory at bbc.com or you can send

26:58

us a message or voice note on

27:00

WhatsApp. Our number is plus four four

27:02

three three zero one two three nine

27:04

four eight oh and you can find those details

27:06

in our show notes wherever you're

27:09

listening in the world. This has been the

27:11

Global Story. Thanks for having us in

27:13

your headphones. Goodbye. Hi,

27:52

I'm Daniel, founder of Pretty Litter. Cats

27:54

and cat owners deserve better than any

27:56

old fashioned litter. That's why I teamed

27:58

up with scientist and veterinarians to create

28:00

Pretty Litter. It's innovative. Crystal Formula has

28:02

superior order control and ways up to

28:05

eighty percent less than clay litter. Pretty

28:07

Litter even monitors health by changing colors

28:09

to help detect early signs of potential

28:11

illness. It's the world's smartest kitty litter.

28:13

so of. litter.com and use Code A

28:15

cast for twenty percent off your first order

28:17

and a free cat toy. Terms and conditions

28:20

apply see site. For details.