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on the latest episodes without

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the ads. Hello

1:13

and a very warm welcome. I'm Mark

1:15

Lowen from the BBC World Service. This

1:17

is The Global Story. Monday

1:22

to Friday we focus on one story in

1:24

detail with the help of the BBC's best

1:27

journalists. Last

1:29

weekend, a man now identified as Joel

1:31

Couchy went on a stabbing rampage

1:33

in a busy shopping mall in

1:35

the Australian city of Sydney. There

1:37

are reports of potentially multiple deaths

1:39

following several stabbings inside a shopping

1:42

center in Sydney's east. A critical

1:44

incident is unfolding there at the

1:46

Westfield Bondi Junction. He killed six

1:48

people and injured 12, including

1:51

a baby. While police investigated

1:53

this horrific attack, another story,

1:55

a false story, was emerging

1:58

online that incorrectly identified... The

2:00

other men as a attacker Pedro

2:02

expect the general public not to

2:05

speculate. Today we're asking how and

2:07

why it a frenzy of accusations.

2:10

Of. With.

2:17

Me today is Maryanne the Spring

2:19

Be Bbc Social Media and Disinformation

2:21

correspondent hello Them Area. Had

2:24

a you only in the Uk on

2:26

the other side of the world from

2:28

Down Under where the attack happened. But

2:30

as ever cyberspace has pools you into

2:32

the story and and in the the

2:34

full story so I'm looking forward to

2:36

testing to you about that in just

2:38

a moment To the first our new

2:40

Sydney correspondent Casey Watson who has been

2:42

covering this attack. Hello Katy Perry, Hi

2:44

Katie you there on Saturday shortly after

2:46

this happened as understand it you you

2:48

don't need just a rise in Sydney

2:50

a day before the attack took place

2:52

of into the. To even

2:54

have time to unpack before he was

2:56

on his massive breaking story. I

2:58

didn't have time to impact. I have

3:00

since abandoned my partner with The Fourth

3:03

Know Church and who have severe debt

3:05

that. Just tell us festival what happened

3:07

take us back to be that the

3:09

facts the real facts of as of

3:11

this case. On Saturday afternoon

3:13

until couch he entered their Westfield

3:15

shopping center and on their jobs.

3:18

and it's in East in Sydney.

3:20

Quite an asshole and area about

3:22

ten minutes from Bond. I beat

3:24

the ended around three o'clock and

3:27

then just before for the police

3:29

were alerted to multiple stabbings. Basically

3:31

he went on a stabbing spree.

3:33

Throughout the Something More A He Kills.

3:36

Five when and and one man.

3:38

That man was a security guard

3:41

who tried to intervene and twelve

3:43

people were injured. Eight women for

3:45

men. One of them is a

3:48

nine month old baby and her

3:50

mother actually died in the attack

3:52

says been a really difficult see

3:55

days, especially in a in a

3:57

country that does not use. There's

4:00

level A violent so at the country's. Reading a

4:02

little bit from what's been happening last

4:04

few days to a Bond I junction

4:07

was saying of shopping Balance but it

4:09

was also witness to the humanity and

4:11

the heroism of our fellow Australians are

4:14

bright police help first responders and of

4:16

course everyday people who could never have

4:18

imagined that that would fight such a

4:21

moment which is take us back to

4:23

those those initial minutes the me to

4:25

aftermath of the attack will have a

4:28

fast reports you were getting wanted we

4:30

think was happening. And

4:32

how quickly did the

4:34

police identify the attacker?

4:37

So. When no news broke and such

4:39

his colleagues he said he ass a

4:41

town and said this amuse emerging

4:43

in sat on twitter about some ah

4:46

suiting or stabbing or something in

4:48

bondage dunks and in southern center and

4:50

against that's not something that happens

4:52

i months in the site itself the

4:54

people like want what's going on

4:56

and. It. Is again because

4:58

of them that is is it that

5:01

the things may since he's in in

5:03

the with suiting the stopping what was

5:05

going on and it transpired that that

5:07

the attacker had a nice that then

5:10

what happened was a loan police officer

5:12

had shot him dead so that's where

5:14

that is Mason kind of was clarified.

5:16

that was clarified. Just a victim

5:19

around the corner. Theory was he

5:21

just com is just not a

5:23

fucking towards us noise down and

5:25

then she sorting Barbara Da da

5:27

Vinci shooting shooting well I would

5:29

give ya he's on a rampage.

5:31

I. Think within that evening the

5:33

identity of the police officer

5:35

was released and then the

5:37

identity of see attacker and

5:39

the names of the victims

5:41

came out. Over the next

5:43

few days they'll see wanted

5:45

to contact families and in

5:47

fact to of the victims'

5:49

families didn't reside in. This

5:51

thread is so they needed

5:53

Cel to contact their families

5:55

before releasing. Names so it's been a

5:57

kind of trip see this information is. When

6:00

I gather that joke how she's

6:02

parents were approached by journalists am

6:05

what could they have to say

6:07

about the possible motives at for

6:10

pizza. There. Was quite it

6:12

as a digital what's actually that the

6:14

saw their as it has he was

6:16

very nice know he he was saying

6:18

that in the he loved a month

6:20

or to it to you and me

6:22

he was a monster but to a

6:25

him he was a in a his

6:27

son and his son and was very

6:29

sick and then at one of the

6:31

journalists said to him that he can

6:33

you understand and why he might target

6:35

women that's one of their lives at

6:37

the police and talked about Atlanta Police

6:40

Can Commissioner. Said that one of

6:42

the lines are looking up because that the

6:44

majority of people who die but women and majority

6:46

those in hospital where women that was that

6:48

certain a line of inquiry it wasn't of

6:50

the assignment korean fat with words from the police

6:52

commissioner as the when this is put to

6:54

his father. He he immediately

6:56

said yes. And he wanted

6:59

a girlfriend he hadn't social skills.

7:01

He was in if frustrated I

7:03

think is the word out of

7:05

his brain. So he was it.

7:07

Really uncomfortable. In. A comment

7:09

given that that the circumstances and of course

7:11

the same a comfort to use it to

7:13

the victims. And and so v I

7:16

did that himself with mental health problems of

7:18

and I was reading that there were reports

7:20

that he was gets a clinic that he

7:22

had stopped medication which he was it was

7:24

being slashed by police and muggy other authorities

7:26

that the attacker was suffering from mental health

7:29

problems and that this was not a terror

7:31

attack. Within. Twenty four hours a

7:33

certain he was discounted as a terror

7:35

attacks and they were talking about thought

7:37

that he had mental health issues and

7:39

in fact it was on Sunday that

7:41

they did talk about whether they were

7:43

looking at as though I've acquired that

7:46

he he might have been targeting women.

7:48

What the police commissioner did actually set

7:50

one point there are going to be

7:52

more questions than answers right now as

7:54

I was kind of preparing people for

7:56

not having the arts is t to

7:58

have a thing. The only

8:00

to say that the police didn't release all

8:02

the names or didn't is that they're letting

8:05

they were letting the families did I think

8:07

and they didn't they won't release in the

8:09

names and so so it's been there. It's

8:11

it's I mean as somebody news of Israeli

8:13

I think it's been quite an interesting way

8:16

of saying how it is a police handle

8:18

up a big situation like this but of

8:20

course if you don't have a it's then

8:22

also says conspiracy. Theories Stop sign

8:24

Katie! Thanks so much and

8:27

I do get some My

8:29

sister's underpass first. Is

8:31

as a. Well

8:40

as the suspects were unsold and

8:42

so would parallel so stories about

8:44

who was behind the attack that's

8:46

been like Marianna Spring or Social

8:48

Media and this information correspondents around.

8:50

We heard Katie the say that

8:52

she actually first heard about this

8:54

Attacked Or Max formerly known as

8:56

Twists Us but The Platform was

8:58

them the source of a lot

9:01

of baseless speculation shortly after the

9:03

attack. Tell me what

9:05

was being said online and who

9:07

was being identified. Yes, Or

9:09

in those kind of immediate our was also

9:11

the attack attack and as always have a

9:14

sorts of speculation and conversation about who is

9:16

behind it and sorts of such as being

9:18

said, some of it really graphic, important, quite

9:20

disturbing showing the attack unfolding and I similarly

9:23

tend to social media to transfer got was

9:25

going on to that sounds a can't my

9:27

tic toc feed and there are some videos

9:29

coming up in a is showing people running

9:32

away and in the shopping mall in Sydney

9:34

and I looked at the comments and there

9:36

were lots of people mentioning this one name.

9:38

they. Kept writing and German Cohen it was

9:41

Ben Cohen. it was an Israeli man, it

9:43

was a Jewish man. an uneven the search

9:45

function Syfy go unchecked. Often you look at

9:47

the comments take that will recommend you different

9:49

things that you might be interested in. Kind

9:52

of searching for videos on based on the

9:54

kind of comments and the chapter around uptick

9:56

the videos and that name Benjamin Comb it

9:58

was a recommended to me. Oh.

10:01

It is. the person is dunno what's going

10:03

on here and I clicked three to that

10:05

and it was. Then I kind of quickly

10:08

started to realize am it's have led me

10:10

back to acts which was last These false

10:12

claims about the person he carried out the

10:14

attack obsessed started and and I realize that

10:17

this. Young. Jewish man and code

10:19

and co in who is a student in

10:21

in Sydney had been falsely teased of of

10:23

carrying out this attack. Me had nothing to

10:25

do with it, but they had already taken

10:27

on life of it's own online by that.

10:30

Point that so interesting the that

10:32

even you a very ensues unplug

10:34

team and tic toc use I

10:36

would getting that name coming through

10:38

him to your trending topics are

10:40

you know if you're getting that

10:42

imagine what people who to trust

10:44

these kinds of false information accounts

10:46

would getting and I'm I'm will

10:49

believe in fact. Exactly. It's quite

10:51

convincing because when there is an attack

10:53

of any the script since there is

10:55

a lot of speculation off to it's

10:57

about his carried out and and we

10:59

used to encountering that and quite often

11:01

people will actually name the correct person

11:03

who carried out before you'll then informed

11:05

by the media or the police or

11:07

eleven fishing that information. Yeah. Was like

11:09

of instantaneous news agency to some isn't. Exactly

11:12

So it is kind of not that surprising

11:14

that you'd see that kind of and lots

11:16

of people west comparing images of this poor

11:18

guy bed covered with pictures of the attacker

11:20

who later was named by police as cell

11:22

count see but at that point we still

11:24

didn't know who it was as I should

11:26

actually nice this one particular person with named

11:28

that she looked at the conversation on X

11:30

m it was a false claims that the

11:32

attacker was Muslim, that this had been motivated

11:34

by religion and that those are being said

11:36

by lots of in a high price all

11:38

accounts with with hundreds of thousands of followers

11:40

and and they were also. Kind of more

11:43

post not necessary directly naming Benjamin

11:45

Cohen, but that was suggesting that

11:47

somehow this was about Israel or

11:49

I was carried out by someone

11:51

who is Jewish says Benjamin codes

11:53

have emerged from that chapter that

11:55

was unfolding and and you know

11:57

this stuff was getting. loads of

11:59

these huh the thousands of views. It wasn't just

12:01

kind of isolated chatter on fringe corners of the

12:03

internet. People, including me, who was just sitting on

12:05

a train on my way home on Saturday night

12:07

were seeing this stuff. What kind of impact

12:09

did this all have on Benjamin

12:12

Cohen's family and indeed on the

12:14

student himself? So Benjamin Cohen, and

12:16

I reached out to both him and his

12:18

dad and he's spoken about the distress that

12:20

it caused him because you're just a university

12:22

student, 20 years old, going about your day,

12:24

and then all of a sudden you start

12:27

realizing that your name is popping up all

12:29

over social media in connection to a really

12:32

shocking attack that's happened in the city that

12:34

you live in. The problem is that once

12:36

that kind of story or that kind of

12:38

disinformation starts to pick up speed and starts

12:40

to really, really turn into this frenzy, you

12:42

can't really do anything to put a stop

12:44

to it. In his case, there

12:47

were people screen grabbing his LinkedIn profile

12:49

that featured his university and where he

12:51

lives. There are all of these people

12:53

defaming him, essentially, making false accusations about

12:56

him in a really distressing way. Actually,

12:58

in the end, it took his dad

13:00

doing this post on X saying, hello,

13:02

New South Wales police, can you please

13:04

name the attacker because all

13:08

this nonsense about my son is

13:10

really harmful. We don't

13:12

know whether that was the reason why

13:14

New South Wales then quite shortly after that did actually

13:16

name the attacker. But I think

13:18

it does tell you that when there's that absence

13:20

of that vacuum of information, it's very easy for

13:22

people to fill it. Unfortunately, for Ben Cohen, a

13:24

lot of this stuff is still live on the

13:26

social media platforms and it had already picked up

13:28

steam and a lot of people will have seen

13:30

it. It wasn't as though it was only a

13:33

few hundred people who'd spotted it. It was hundreds

13:35

and thousands of people. So

13:38

we've looked at what actually happened during the

13:40

Sydney Shopping Centre attack and how the event

13:42

was portrayed online. Next, we're going to

13:44

hear from one of the people who was

13:46

spreading disinformation about the stabbing attack

13:48

on social media and whose

13:50

posts helped make the name of an

13:53

innocent man go viral. Though.

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15:04

We bring you one big international story

15:06

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or subscribe wherever you listen. With.

15:11

Me: his Mariana sprints Now Mariani

15:13

You been looking into the social

15:16

media reaction to this disturbing attack

15:18

and hibachi spoken swath of people

15:20

who was sharing is inaccurate information

15:22

online? Tell me about him. Yes,

15:25

I didn't expect to find myself speaking

15:27

to a man who on social media

15:29

and is is this kind of alter

15:31

ego of Ozzie Cossacks at his real

15:33

name is Simeon Boycotts and at he

15:36

is currently at. Hiding living

15:38

in the air in that consulate,

15:40

the Russian consulate in Sydney and

15:42

and from there he runs a

15:44

pretty active social media operations, a

15:46

cardigan arrest warrant out for an

15:48

alleged assaults connected to him, he's

15:50

trying to seek an asylum in

15:52

Russia and scenario is living in

15:54

the consulate and he does these

15:56

light stream suppose loads of social

15:58

media content and on. On

16:00

telegram on other sites and and

16:02

when this all started unfolding, he

16:04

was one of the instrumental accounts

16:07

on acts in amplifying and sharing

16:09

the false accusations. Ben Cohen Benjamin

16:11

Co in this twenty year old

16:13

student in Sydney was actually in

16:15

the Killer in Miss attack and

16:17

he posted and I'll read your

16:20

his tweet. So his original post

16:22

on X said unconfirmed reports identify

16:24

the bonds I attacker as Benjamin

16:26

Cohen Cohen Really And to think

16:28

so many commentators tried. To initially blame

16:31

Muslims and you know he tried to argue.

16:33

Well, I use the word unconfirmed but that

16:35

didn't stop a lot of people read sharing

16:37

what he'd posted, commenting beneath it, believing that

16:39

he was essentially saying oh, this is the

16:41

identity of the guy he carried out and

16:43

and if you look at the numbers you

16:45

know he had more than four hundred thousand

16:48

and views alone on just that post on

16:50

X And that was before the police had

16:52

named who the real attacker was and he

16:54

was a really kind of T V access

16:56

in how this all unfolded. It's and it

16:58

wasn't just thought he them. Posted again sharing

17:00

an image of as the twenty year old

17:02

Ben Cohen and comparing it to a video

17:04

of the attack as he then also took

17:06

the telegram said the linked him profile up

17:08

and coming with other identifying details and and

17:10

so he was really part of the snowball

17:12

effect on I messaged him I myself tracked

17:14

him down, found a social media accounts, took

17:16

them a message and said i want to

17:18

speak to about. Your. Role in

17:21

the social media frenzy and almost immediately

17:23

he replied saying put simply. Sit.

17:25

On so it was. I live for hims

17:27

south, chatting to him about what's happening parts

17:30

of a word, quit questioning, quizzing him on

17:32

and the impact for his content and hard

17:34

and the home it caused particularly to send

17:36

Cohen who was at the heart of these

17:39

false allegations but then also to in at

17:41

all of the people who currently grieving their

17:43

loved ones who were killed in this attack

17:45

and yet having to deal on top of

17:48

that with this kind of social media frenzy

17:50

the unfolds around at Tommy. Bit more about

17:52

what Simeon Book of told you into chat with

17:54

him. So. I climb up on the

17:56

phone. Palace. Go see

17:58

your on his Bbc. Is this information

18:00

and social media correspondent? What is that?

18:03

I might end. The conversation very that

18:05

started with himself questioning me in some

18:07

way about my job i'm why do

18:09

and we that were able to move

18:11

on to the issue of the stabbings

18:14

and the false accusations that he had

18:16

been involved in spreading and any very

18:18

very quickly defended himself. He said I

18:20

never falsely suggested anything and immediately pointed

18:22

out this word unconfirmed the had used

18:25

in the original post which he continued

18:27

to point out a lot in as

18:29

his defense of well that's why I

18:31

was doing is telling people that these

18:33

reports. Were on Com said the problem is

18:36

the way that he phrased his various posts

18:38

about this. Are understandably for

18:40

quite a lot of users lead them to

18:42

believe the actually he was saying. Well there

18:44

are unconfirmed that they might be concerned in

18:46

a bit and on this might be the

18:48

person until I did put that to him

18:50

and I challenged him kind of several times

18:53

on how regardless of whether that was his

18:55

intention or not, that is how people can

18:57

interpret and pick up what he said. And

18:59

if you look at the way that this

19:01

and unfolded on social media you know his

19:03

posts worth key to the spread of it.

19:06

There was. A trend online and the

19:08

traders were growing and established before or

19:10

into the room so to speak, and

19:12

I took note of the trend. And.

19:14

I said that there is speculation just

19:16

watch you are report have been better

19:19

going around as if there is speculation

19:21

and you could say that I would

19:23

probably the first large platform to warn

19:25

that this is unconfirmed. So if anything

19:28

or you could portray my involvement is

19:30

it as a responsible person saying hang

19:32

on a second This information is unconfirmed.

19:35

There is speculation, it's right, but it's

19:37

unconfirmed. I. Wouldn't just ripple aunts and

19:39

unconcerned allegation I saw spreading on six

19:41

different social media platforms, because I'd risk.

19:44

And you'll find that an old feeling that we're

19:46

sorry. Love you doing that right now. That

19:48

word on some sand is doing a lot

19:50

of heavy lifting and his eyes that's

19:52

even those people it's not release cutting

19:54

and nazis know I said that him as

19:57

well on the Bbc when we have

19:59

a staff we don't per per call

20:01

or will unconfirmed reporter bit speculation is being

20:03

shared on social media I'm where he

20:05

we do have to verify investigated check whether

20:07

it's tree before we that sarah ourselves

20:09

and he didn't take too kindly to

20:11

Isis. This. Seems like he be that

20:13

the word on confirmed as his attempts to a get

20:15

out of jail free card. I just wonder whether you

20:18

got a sense from him about why he was doing

20:20

this. So it can always be quite

20:22

difficult to figure out why people really sad

20:24

the their at the quite lot people who

20:26

I think cynically post this information because they

20:29

can build a following, build a profile, they

20:31

can make money and when it comes to

20:33

some in boy calls and you know if

20:35

you just look at the facts he runs

20:37

at kind of like. Pseudo.

20:40

Media Channel. or he would call at Media

20:42

Channel where he kind of puts out lots

20:44

and lots of contents. When you're looking to

20:46

do, the is useful to get involved in

20:48

topics that are relevant to your following and

20:50

that people might be interested in. He probably

20:52

take on acts. It means you know again,

20:54

if you get involved in a topic that

20:57

got pretty live conversation, you probably more likely

20:59

to get more exposure. Feel content is important.

21:01

Understand: some of the changes have happened at

21:03

X since Elon Musk bought the social media

21:05

companies and because they help to explain why

21:07

this kind of thing happens which is. Now

21:09

you're able to purchase a blue take a

21:12

British used to signify that you were verified

21:14

or that your account can be trusted. Now

21:16

you can pay for one Am. What that

21:18

means is that your posts are prioritized above

21:20

or the people's posts on people's feeds. So

21:22

even if you don't follow any of these

21:24

people, you can still be seeing that Clinton

21:26

quite prominently on your feet. And I'm sure

21:28

a lot people listening have noticed on Se

21:30

till next House how the kinds of posts

21:32

they're seeing and the peoples concerned that that

21:34

being exposed to it's quite different from what

21:36

it was probably like even a year ago

21:38

or two years. Ago and said that meant

21:41

that quite quickly. a lot of these ideas

21:43

that were being amplified this false accusations that

21:45

he carried out the attacks were reaching hundreds

21:47

of thousands of people according to X his

21:50

own data. And there's another element to this

21:52

which is a D by Bluetec, you actually

21:54

are entitled to a share of the revenue

21:56

that is generated by the ads. That kind

21:59

of a tough. The your pace of years

22:01

that you're getting when your pace levied. Also an

22:03

incentive to find a share. The sorts of stuff

22:05

is gonna get a lot of eyeballs and this

22:07

happens all the time because of the way that

22:10

social media works in. the ability to grow a

22:12

following by posting content is divisive that gets a

22:14

reaction and on the truth of gets in the

22:16

way of us. Have fun while up the phone.

22:26

Before so it's okay. I wasn't

22:29

aware of just how the glue

22:31

to as credibility seemingly on indeed

22:33

as the ability to to make

22:36

financial incentives from from this information

22:38

I'm than you see these contacts

22:40

books is underneath a fool's post

22:42

which supposedly again our way of

22:45

kindness dinner excusing mitigation. Information

22:48

in the past or not to be an

22:50

argument. I read and read the original post

22:52

which. Side

22:55

well to be together. Like you say, they don't have

22:57

an automatically so often stuff has had in a hundreds

23:00

of thousands of impressions. Lots of people have seen it

23:02

and then it will have a label on it. but

23:04

you know what difference does not make to draw dizziness.

23:06

I'm just really interested to hear

23:08

whether any action is taken against

23:10

these accounts for spread false claims

23:13

for defamation for incitement because from

23:15

a what use we took the

23:17

what you talked about about the

23:19

but the blue tix and of

23:21

how some accounts actually make money

23:24

from ad revenues from sharing the

23:26

schools information. It seems that some

23:28

these accounts since these people are

23:30

actually rewarded rather than condemns as

23:32

perhaps one would expect they would

23:35

be. A lot of people I

23:37

have spoken to he's been harmed by

23:39

content on social media particular disinformation that

23:41

kind of targeting them specifically but was

23:44

have hate Laos are turning to the

23:46

cause the law by silly to trump

23:48

better protect themselves because they say let's

23:51

say. The. Social media companies for

23:53

whatever reason, aren't doing enough. They sell a size

23:55

policymakers pats on on so but they are ahead

23:57

of the game. It's moving too quickly. So dense.

24:00

And so instead they decide to tend to

24:02

lawyers and actually to see people an attack

24:04

the United for Defamation but then also it's

24:06

and very very cases are covered also involving

24:09

kind of harassment and hate and things like

24:11

that. And and when we're talking about this

24:13

issue of money pats money as a driving

24:15

factor of spreading this kind of content. This

24:17

information's. They. Certainly have said to

24:19

me they feel as though it's an effective

24:21

way of stopping this because you thought hitting

24:24

people were hurt which she sang right. I'm

24:26

gonna get some money off this and maybe

24:28

that will stop. He's spreading these kinds of

24:30

planes and so it wouldn't surprise me if

24:32

of the people involved in this city stabbing

24:34

tasted decides to path to take legal action

24:36

against some accounts. However legal action is expenses.

24:39

It's difficult, it's time consuming and I saw

24:41

available to everyone and so am is not

24:43

necessarily the dissolution. In your opinion, is

24:45

it clear that Social Media John and

24:47

Saw Helping people. Spread. Or

24:50

indeed, profits from information. I

24:52

think it would be sad to say

24:54

that a lot of just the format

24:57

the structure of the social media sites

24:59

does mean not people are incentivized to

25:01

share disinformation and hate the social media

25:03

companies would all objects that you know

25:05

they're not publishes the it's essential to

25:07

be the kind of foreign in which

25:10

these discussions happens that you will so

25:12

often suggests that they're just reflecting back

25:14

kind of problems that exist in society

25:16

already. Without social media does anything that

25:18

could be true but algorithms are at

25:21

his systems recommendation. Systems that send you

25:23

stuff he might not otherwise have encountered

25:25

Said the idea that it's just the

25:27

mirror kind of light reflecting funny isn't

25:29

right. I should say they that the

25:31

meteor with irresponsible figured it consists Hercules

25:34

in this is misleading if you defeating

25:36

the frame villains and that campaign party.

25:41

Meeting you say? I always

25:43

said was your work. As

25:45

well. Thanks very much Thank you so much

25:48

on thanks so much to you for listening.

25:50

If you have a question of what's going,

25:52

talks about this or any other story wants

25:54

to cover, you could send us a message

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or voice note on what's up on plus

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