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0:37

final moments Alex Payne trying to keep

0:39

this side going forward. Haskell takes it

0:41

on now with just relentless chat largely

0:43

about himself. And there's Tyndall to add

0:45

the finishing touch of glamour and World

0:47

Cup winning stories and a slightly sideways

0:49

nose. That is How

0:52

You Podcast, a dominant display

0:54

by the good, the bad

0:57

and the rugby. Hello Dream

0:59

Team and welcome to the Good, the Bad and

1:01

the Rugby in partnership with our good friends at

1:03

Continental Tires. Now I

1:05

thought we'd biff off Generation X and I

1:07

brought in a couple of fellow millennials from

1:09

my time with England. Johnny May

1:12

and Ellis Gensch. Gentlemen,

1:14

how are you? Are you a millennial as well? Yes,

1:17

you prick. I am actually. I am.

1:19

What's that? What determines who I'm a millennial? I thought

1:21

that was 2000s. No,

1:24

that's Gen Z. What are you, 97? Five.

1:27

No, you're a millennial. I reckon it's 80. I

1:30

think 80s to something is millennials. I think so. Not

1:33

all of 80s. Listen, why

1:36

are you looking at me as if I know what I'm doing? I

1:38

want to be brought in here because I can really pay with

1:40

you two because Alex would alienate both of you. Yeah, you wouldn't

1:42

be able to speak. Ellis, half of us would be with me.

1:44

Do you understand what I'm saying?

1:47

What do you mean? Alex, just sorry. What's that

1:49

word? I

1:51

wouldn't get it. 81 to 96. 81

1:54

to 96. We're all millennials. We're all millennials. Thank

1:56

you. Firstly, I think we're going to have to do a

1:59

bit of a quick break. And

2:01

this is great to see you on our podcast. You've done everyone else's podcast.

2:03

Good to have you back. Do you want to

2:06

say it's nice to be back or? Yeah, it's good to be back.

2:08

Good. We missed you. I

2:10

missed you too. Now you've done everything else. Is ours better than

2:12

everyone else? You're

2:14

my friends. Fine. There you go.

2:17

Oh, that's what we need today. We will from that.

2:19

Read between the lines or do whatever you

2:21

want. What have you been doing

2:23

today? Explain to you why in God's name we got

2:25

a message saying, I'm going to be late. I'm

2:28

working, doing work experience as a fire

2:30

brigade. Yeah, so the good bad rugby have done a

2:32

good job of recreating or

2:34

reproducing the rugby culture of undermining

2:37

and mocking anybody who's trying to upskill themselves

2:39

or look to the future. No,

2:42

but I was at Bryce Norton, RAF,

2:46

cows this morning. Emily

2:48

from the RPA sorted that out for me. And the fire

2:50

service is something that I might be

2:52

interested in looking into. Why are you laughing, mate?

2:55

It's so horrible, mate. Why

2:57

are you so fucking horrible? I need to compose them.

2:59

Wait. So you went to RAF Bryce Norton. Where's

3:02

Bryce Norton? In Oxford. Right. You love when

3:04

he says that as if you and I

3:07

meant to know right, got it. Yeah. What

3:09

was your initial thing doing there then? So

3:11

it's just literally a first introduction step and

3:13

looking into options because I need

3:15

to start thinking about what I want to do. Why are

3:18

you laughing at me? I'm not. Well,

3:20

let's be very careful. It's a good career. Let's

3:22

be very careful. We've got ADHD, autism,

3:24

and dyspraxia all represented on the show this

3:26

week. No, all three of us

3:29

have got Eurodiversity. Yeah. So they thought

3:31

we'd bring it together. So we're a

3:33

brotherhood together. All a bit quirky. Can

3:36

you explain to me, you went to RAF Bryce

3:38

Norton. Was the RAF part of it?

3:40

Or was it just where the fire brigade were? No, but

3:42

you have like Civvie Street fire

3:45

servicemen. Right. And RAF fire servicemen. Who would

3:47

have been RAF firemen? It looks like that

3:49

might be a better pathway for it. Why

3:51

are you laughing at me? I

3:53

can't bear this. Why? Do you say what's

3:55

the difference? So you would like, oh, I'm going

3:58

to be a fireman, but I want to be like a proper badass. No,

4:00

like basically, how do you say it? Yeah, they're

4:02

very similar to my understanding. Again, it's just like

4:04

an idea I've had. You've got to start somewhere.

4:06

Stop laughing at me. I'm laughing, right? We didn't

4:08

laugh at you when you said, do you want

4:11

it to be a DJ? Look at you now.

4:13

That's true. Look at me now. We supported you.

4:16

so that got blown up a bit. So I think I've

4:18

been- We all need to find things to do. I just

4:20

want to know where did the burning passion come from? My

4:23

mate said, I've

4:26

had a couple, no, two people said to me, oh,

4:28

the fire service is really good. It's shift work.

4:30

It's two days, two

4:32

nights, eight day week, four days off. It's brilliant. You

4:35

have a good laugh. You have a group of guys.

4:38

It's re- Team environment.

4:40

Yeah, team environment. It incorporates a lot of

4:42

the rugby lifestyle into a

4:45

new career. So you've got teamwork, discipline,

4:48

bit of pressure. Uniform? Yeah, uniform, stash.

4:51

And I was like, do you know what? That is quite a

4:53

cool idea. So then I was like, well,

4:55

maybe you've got people the RPA, we

4:57

have people who work in the clubs for

4:59

transit for moving, moving you

5:02

on. So I spoke to our RPA lady at

5:04

the club, Emily, and she's got me in touch

5:06

with the, Bryson Orson.

5:08

Fine, so you went down there. Yep. Fire

5:10

cannon, water cannon. You fired the water cannon. I didn't

5:12

do it, but I went in the fire trucks. Oh,

5:15

but you got, they let you sit on it. Yeah, yeah, they put the- They

5:17

let you put the life on. They let you put the life on? Did you

5:19

put the life? No, it was no, I didn't see. Did

5:22

you just use the steering wheel? Stop mocking me. I'm not,

5:24

did you use the steering wheel? But then I sat in

5:26

the passenger seat and he showed me the cannon. Oh, do

5:28

you mind? Show me the- So you sat in the passenger

5:30

seat, he showed, you sat in the

5:32

passenger seat and he showed you his cannon. No,

5:34

he showed me the cannon. Oh, the cannon, right,

5:36

okay. So he calls it, well. Yeah. I've

5:39

heard a few things. Okay, and after experience, do you

5:41

feel like this is something you want to go into

5:43

even more? Yeah, I'm gonna, I wanna explore

5:45

it a bit further. Yeah, it could be quite cool. The

5:48

reason being the RAF is good, potentially

5:51

for somebody like me compared to Civvy Street,

5:53

is they're very flexible. I like if I'm

5:55

still hoping to play for the next couple

5:57

of years or year or whatever that

5:59

may be. I'm not quite ready to start

6:01

playing yet. Okay. They could help me do

6:03

bits and bobs in off season or weeks

6:05

off. Okay. As opposed to having to go

6:08

straight with Civvy Street fire service. You

6:10

need to go into an apprenticeship

6:12

for two years full time. So

6:14

it sort of would help

6:16

me get a

6:19

bit of a foot up whilst I'm still playing. Right.

6:21

If that makes sense. So I don't start in two

6:23

years with nothing. I've got a little bit of a...

6:25

So you've done a few small fires and stuff like

6:27

that? Yeah, exactly. Things like that. And

6:29

again, I don't really know what I'm talking about yet because I've only

6:31

started looking into it. But that's that. Just

6:35

to cut the questions. When you came on the podcast

6:37

of four and we asked you about your preparation for

6:39

game day, you talked about a lot of voice in

6:41

your head trying not to say calm and panic. Do

6:44

you really think we want you at the bottom of

6:46

the ladder climbing into a fiery building with your personal

6:48

demons? Is that a good plan? Well, I

6:50

could be very good at it or I could be

6:52

very bad at it. But let's have a seat and

6:54

see how I go. Is it a risk of two

6:57

lives just to test that? No. I won't risk lives

6:59

whilst you're training. That's the point in training, I guess.

7:01

But like I said,

7:03

I think it feels like a few of the traits

7:05

of professional rugby would prepare

7:07

me well for dealing in the crisis. Stop laughing

7:09

at me. I think you'd be good, Jon. Yeah.

7:12

He's a good bloke. He wants to support me. Listen,

7:14

everybody else... Do you know what? People about the... Everybody

7:17

non-rubby has been like, Jonny, you've been brilliant on the podcast. All

7:19

my rugby mates have been like, well, when you run out of

7:21

stories, they'll be done with you. And they're like, I don't know

7:23

what they said. Who wants to hear you talk about rugby? You

7:25

don't know anything about rugby. No, you're

7:27

a fireman. I love firemen. It just seems like

7:29

a bit of a rugby culture. We seem to

7:31

slam people for... We've not slammed anyone. We welcome

7:33

everyone here. We've got neurodiversity in order. We've got

7:36

different careers. We accept anybody from any walk of

7:38

life. We've got actors on here. You could be

7:40

our resident fireman. Did you learn anything today that

7:42

you can take forward? Do you feel more confident

7:44

now if this table was to burst into flames?

7:46

No, I haven't gone there yet. I just know

7:48

what it looks like, i.e. What's

7:51

my pathway looking like in a few

7:53

introductions and contacts and... What

7:55

bit would you like to do the most? Well,

7:58

you train as a fireman. No I know, do you

8:00

want to do the big hose bit? Do you want to

8:03

do the white helmet or the yellow helmet? Do you want

8:05

to do the food? No, you don't, no. Or the white

8:07

ones in charge. What would be

8:09

good is I'd enjoy the routine of it.

8:12

You do your equipment checks every morning, I'd be quite good at

8:14

that, like thorough. And then you're prepared

8:16

and ready, and then if it comes to it,

8:18

you do something quite meaningful and help people. I

8:21

wouldn't have a mock you. If you weren't there for

8:23

me. You were mocking me. I wasn't mocking you. I'm

8:25

on the UVR team, if my favorite person. They laugh

8:27

at anything. With a snail and a picture of a

8:29

fire truck. They're in this, no, it's just, when you

8:31

call someone up, if I went, ah, I'm late because

8:33

I've been at London Zoo helping clean out the elephants,

8:36

there'd be a few questions. Johnny May, in

8:38

all of our years, you have never once gone, Hask, I'd

8:40

like to be a fireman. But I did not say

8:42

that, because we had this on the first chat. You have

8:45

never said you wanted to be a fireman? I don't think, oh,

8:47

this would have been a new one, but yeah, I've been thinking.

8:49

It's been like an hour. You've come up with this this morning,

8:51

you've woken up with your cereal, panicked, called the RPA and gone,

8:53

fixed that with the fireman. That's how it's worked out. It's not

8:55

far off though. We're

8:58

gonna come on to you, because you obviously played, yesterday,

9:01

unbelievable. And a record, record.

9:03

85 points. A membership performance. I mean, it

9:05

was like being up a load of school

9:07

children, but that's fine. If

9:10

you weren't a rugby player, or when you finished

9:12

playing, what do you want to do? I've

9:14

got my gym. Yes, I'm with... Is that cool,

9:16

by the way? People just find out about it? That's why I'm...

9:19

Sin. Sin, we're always helping people, not mocking, I'm

9:21

not laughing at him, are we? Got some merch

9:23

on there actually, but the... Where can they find

9:25

that? It's just on the back of my top suit, come

9:27

on then, show us. Come on, show you. It's

9:29

all about helping people. We don't laugh at people.

9:31

Oh, like, good rotation. That's

9:34

not that. Show the camera. Okay,

9:37

fair enough. Right. What

9:39

do I want to do? We're gonna open a few more gyms. That's what's

9:41

gonna happen in the next few months, before the end of the year. Hopefully,

9:43

I have three. Lovely. We've got one at

9:45

the moment. We're basically looking to open up in Harbour.

9:48

Oh, lovely. You want to go to the woods? Got

9:51

a sight in Bath, for at least an F45, if you

9:53

want that. Is that off grabs, is it? Yep. So,

9:56

yeah. Crash and burn. Yeah, because it works in the

9:58

next month. While The father... We

10:00

were feel center in back of

10:02

my first. Anyway, I'm sin hopefully

10:04

take off soon. With

10:07

of run club was that we've got the load

10:09

a match was we got we've got training program

10:11

says it thus Sussex I and all of a

10:13

craze other sports a rule about I could ever

10:15

but we're I just know that the thing with

10:17

that that there is message on the madness ah

10:19

that with the sketches and or four days on

10:21

and and four days off say that maybe if

10:23

I'm still exist on the puck I can that

10:26

I've never heard that us with some lives you

10:28

from a fire hundred percent ah forgot my daughter.

10:30

Back to ever been a lot of not

10:32

from a five and no amount of become

10:34

and but I'm on. I'm a trained Oregon

10:36

and last twenty to thirty economic lot of

10:38

soon unlock on Chinese students trust the far

10:40

about insofar as him as it was about

10:42

it but that sort of trying to fall

10:44

far as it up there is a As

10:46

Mckenzie if you have an autopsy results get

10:48

you to on a great makes up effortlessness.

10:51

Lights are not a fire fighter a rivalry

10:53

know the or the fiber diet. I'll just

10:55

before I before you may have sorts of

10:57

it over to The Jewels ally for this

10:59

for. Him as he he doesn't have

11:01

a lot I don't see. I know more about

11:03

the Fabio jews and says you doing so your

11:05

jaws of livestock and car Yup they cut the

11:08

was that caused the a framework result of level

11:10

of the frame A colleague of us in a

11:12

lot of time when they take the roof off

11:14

this snippet a cut out or that middle of

11:16

money than the kind of the dodgers their crust

11:19

and should know that it's a we will know

11:21

that says a fireman sam Ups can be so

11:23

nice still you my on a lot vom some

11:25

from zero to last two of us are those

11:27

they got to love. thought of that forget isn't.

11:30

But it could shove is Annette. yeah you'll realize

11:32

that. What a surprise about the Jews and I

11:34

thought the child yeah I did. Not a whole

11:36

lot to learn. Yeah so evidence of us and

11:38

you loving and evidently at his eat. Have you

11:40

seen Tony on previous shows with his with a

11:43

metal with a Rolex for many popular though. I

11:46

walk try only Reuters is so said she

11:48

didn't focused and yes as is gonna write.

11:50

Is. Going on and so has it really

11:52

on on the page. You go clown as

11:55

what are you. Also know that you are

11:57

jonesy Participating in Germany and today's roulette seat

11:59

ago. You know your your your the

12:01

bravo that of them when when I who ended

12:04

up with the meditate in itself and garlic take

12:06

on and having an affair that go into head

12:08

who want the Us I wouldn't say their friends

12:10

though he said get the zebra it only gets

12:12

defensive you it's offensive and even talk myself into

12:15

some sort of ailment by your eyes roll I

12:17

had when those awful offered you six to see

12:19

the first episode of never Seen a mad the

12:21

Honestly boys out that could be unable to speak

12:23

when he was persuaded me to deploy three Sunday

12:26

somebody said lives a Hong Kong F go over

12:28

that Some refocus quip they yes. I won't

12:30

lie and itinerary or met a D is it

12:32

minutes before after the me to twenty two for

12:34

either he will what a lot of video us

12:36

wouldn't the will sit over evil our topic Sox

12:39

are going to get distracted Roman don't win against

12:41

someone to see the she was unable or may

12:43

not one of my hormones. Are you going on

12:45

with him in England with probably about central contracts

12:47

because now you boys what we know you'll have

12:49

own that Tony got a concert in size quiz

12:52

who's is quite exciting on got some other add

12:54

read the bits and pieces Central Contracts England's. What?

12:57

You want to waste? Shall I in I

12:59

want is was at a suppose of you.

13:01

They're going on some Jordan's podcast. Big deal

13:03

that yeah Hajji Finer if you know. I've

13:06

made that one and I was in.

13:08

The staff general has one hundred little

13:10

you and I'll go and it was

13:12

an ambulance are having a be good

13:14

to be yourself and and some during

13:16

the talks about a class the for

13:18

now yeah offering That was a big

13:20

topic the he wants to fight what

13:22

will vote to be delve into famous

13:24

quote he say that you know friends,

13:26

east woeful building sites and a scaffold

13:28

as were fast and Johnny lobby challenge

13:30

me on that. Does. He still wanna

13:32

do that of than the other be

13:34

owed on the phone. I didn't go

13:37

anywhere with owner but when they were

13:39

younger islam same thing ever west side

13:41

coast and he was more impressive. News

13:43

yeah there was this ties masses title

13:45

has had gaze at those to run

13:47

away from. A

13:49

faster processor stuff that are already was

13:51

stuff you your we'll both are trapped

13:54

by sadly them over every page and

13:56

operator. Parliamentary niparko app on I love

13:58

that said they've got. More on the

14:00

contrary it I'm as a natural numbers may I

14:03

yoda again I think you'd you be warm it

14:05

up and a be on the tracks for our

14:07

the blatantly to warm up that is blue I

14:09

target for switch in our tab and how the

14:12

take away on their resilient though at All Hallows

14:14

brings you feel we face when that a Doctor

14:16

Phillips how people live on the way out there

14:18

blowing up as you got a new nine hot

14:20

yeah don't know why did with policemen on it

14:23

the on Monday she told you problems ipo riga

14:25

yes we were from serve some of the area

14:27

you'll actually part the Apollo program. That

14:31

know it's that of us are. it's a

14:33

case where it would to be due to

14:35

the library but Alex hello of the classes

14:37

you been quite vocal. obviously you could have

14:39

become of the oven to be vocal. Went

14:41

off that other assorted campaign for I just

14:43

think I think I think be naive to

14:45

say that there isn't a disparity in class

14:48

in our sport. If you look at football

14:50

would say ninety percent of this is what

14:52

Simon said on on his pockets, monochrome, what

14:54

works com and the book. He said that

14:56

as a. Extreme. Lee.

14:59

High number of working class people make

15:01

for some football in comparison to the

15:03

people ego a private educated me said

15:06

is usually. Those.

15:08

Boys get peppers to go into private school whereas

15:10

when I was come through the ranks, systems and

15:12

reviews the of way around you'd get pepper for

15:14

not go into a private school. So.

15:16

That was a thing that was will start at

15:18

the the conversation since her son a centrists and

15:21

you will I would you come to any conclusions

15:23

is it's kind of agree or not a yeah

15:25

yeah I think he agreed to me as I

15:27

think is more just an interesting conversation or owns

15:30

the I think what led to I to speak

15:32

about have an Id and in the amount of

15:34

talent I my friends or I think we're. More

15:37

capable of likely than you are naturally of

15:39

see friends be incredible Athlete and Evans were

15:41

that well on Credible well as always think

15:43

you are currently or know he knows I'm

15:45

fine Hours on the floor emulator. But.

15:49

The. Opportunities that a given people

15:51

who have from a. With

15:54

use were class of. Given those of she's a

15:56

lot easier than the people who have. The

15:58

rough times and ruff resemble. So I think

16:01

that was what led to so talent idea and

16:03

rugby I'd say is probably skewed a bit because

16:05

you don't necessarily always see the people who are

16:07

from the areas that I'm from whereas in the

16:09

Football and world that's where they go. That's literally

16:11

their first port call Hence why

16:13

they're signing people at six seven eight years old

16:15

and gentlemen So I think that was where the

16:17

where the conversation went off top of my head

16:19

Oh, no, you know, we've got so much to

16:21

cover with both you I was actually asked because

16:23

that class is quite interesting It's that you first

16:26

came on the scene you're very honest and every

16:28

cool people sausages whatever divided opinion You weren't the

16:30

usual poster boy for rugby. I think

16:33

And I told you at the time when you play

16:35

really well everyone ever lets you do these Very

16:39

well, everyone brings it up and you're speaking too much.

16:41

Shut up. You know, we talk about your own agency

16:44

You've now obviously proven yourself to be an incredible

16:46

leader an incredible player. I just

16:48

wondered From a point of view

16:50

now, it feels like you are sort

16:52

of Unintentionally not going away

16:55

but fighting that good fight to Set

16:57

an example for people to show that you can

16:59

have character you can be like that. Is that

17:01

right? Is that right? Oh, yeah I mean It's

17:04

I think it's becoming more apparent especially as I've

17:06

become a dad over the past few years when

17:08

I speak to kids now And I see him

17:10

in the games and I actually Sounds

17:12

a bit mental but you listen to I mean like before

17:14

you you jump trying to say you'd sign the thought But

17:17

I actually listen to what they say now, for example,

17:19

they say you're my favorite person fucking hell If

17:21

my boy said that someone and they just didn't

17:24

give them time and day I'd feel a certain

17:26

way about that So I completely agree with you.

17:28

Yeah, so yesterday for example, there were there's a

17:30

scheme in Bristol called star And

17:32

the kids from underprivileged backgrounds and they brought them to

17:35

the game When I'm done like an

17:37

alignment meeting on the pictures leaders another word for

17:39

leadership I guess as we finish I was walking

17:41

in and I seen an old neighbor of mine

17:43

from Andover Road in Norwest He lived

17:45

across the road from his name's Martin and he said you

17:47

won't remember me But I lived opposite you I said no

17:49

my my old man used to speak about Martin from over

17:51

the road number 33 He lived opposite

17:54

us. Anyway, there were a group of kids all in

17:56

tracksuits And as I was walking in someone said I have

17:58

a picture of him. No having a picture which really

18:00

means massive. And I thought, fuck, do you want a photo,

18:02

boys? And then two of them come over and they said,

18:05

you live in Andover Road. And I said, yeah, I did. I

18:07

said, where'd you live? He said, Andover Road. And I thought, fucking

18:09

hell, there's a kid right in front of me now coming to

18:11

a rugby game, which I never did when I was younger, really,

18:13

until I was a bit older and got into Bristol's Academy. And

18:16

he's there and he's in a track suit and he obviously feels

18:18

quite uncomfortable. So I took a bit of time, I spoke to

18:20

him, tried to make him feel at ease, don't know if it

18:22

worked, but, and then there was a few of them who didn't

18:24

want a photo. And I almost see myself

18:26

in them, you know, like, do you want a photo?

18:28

No, fucking, he was a bit standoffish. So it

18:31

hit me before the game. And I thought, fuck me, I've actually

18:33

got an opportunity to make an impact on these kids today. So

18:35

when I played, I was quite conscious of that. And

18:38

then after the game, when you go around, you make an effort

18:40

and you spend a bit more time and you sort of gone

18:42

a bit long winded there. But that's perfect. It's

18:45

almost a purpose for me. So

18:47

having children myself, I think sort

18:49

of, I used to speak about it and it

18:52

was more so, from a selfish point of view,

18:54

I feel excited. I feel excluded. Whereas actually what

18:56

I channel it into now is, there's loads of

18:58

other kids out there feel the same

19:00

way as I do. How can I use my platform

19:02

to impact these kids for

19:05

the bottom of the rugby in my eyes? I come to you, Joly,

19:07

but do you feel like that as well with

19:09

the England team? Because every player we've had come

19:11

in here, we always ask them, what's in the camp

19:14

light? What's amazing? Who are the key people? And

19:16

you're the first name that comes out all the time.

19:18

They always say, Ellis has been brilliant. Ellis is great.

19:20

Ellis is setting his emotional tone. He's created the

19:22

young players. He's been really good. He sort of almost

19:24

feels that you've done that as an extension

19:26

with the other players as well to make sure everyone's welcome. Is

19:29

that kind of right? I think I'm naturally like that anyway. I've

19:31

done a bit of work with a psychologist

19:33

called David Priest who we bring into camp.

19:36

Joly's a big fan of his. He's really

19:38

good. Very different, but I've had a

19:40

few sessions where I don't, I'm not one of a repeat user

19:42

of psychologists. So I just go on a field and

19:44

he'd answer for a few questions. And he said that

19:47

naturally he sees it when I'm around camp and stuff.

19:49

I'm very, I'll put my hand on someone and say,

19:51

I won't just say, how are you? I just put

19:53

my hand on them and very personable

19:56

people, which I didn't ever really think I was, but

19:58

I've been like that for my whole life. and

20:00

then I guess sort of having a That

20:02

in the back of my head when I'm in a room Can

20:05

benefit a team so maybe that's why you hear that

20:07

But did you feel so when you first

20:10

came in the England team, how are you

20:12

greeted? How do you feel that you? It's different I

20:14

think rugby's changed a lot since 2016 when we first

20:16

met I think you were just sort of squeezing out

20:18

the last bit of The old school which I'm a

20:20

big fan of by the way I loved all that

20:22

but I do see him like we spoke about earlier

20:24

with Gen Z now I do see how that could

20:26

be intimidating for him because it's different economies are different

20:28

Everything's different in rugby now So

20:30

for me, I probably did feel a bit like

20:32

fuck me what's going on? But that was more

20:34

so because I'd come from if you remember low-knit

20:37

Plymouth for two weeks three weeks Back

20:39

to the champ left the champ went to the

20:41

prem debut for England for me. It was a whirlwind

20:43

for me So I was probably thinking fuck me find

20:45

your feet and keep your head

20:47

down Whereas I see players coming

20:49

now 18 19 manual favorite. Did

20:51

you meet Manny? I met him and

20:53

I popped in the change room. What a lovely bloke but

20:56

extremely confident Laughing joke and always

20:58

around the boys whereas I'd say previously you would

21:00

have seen the young boys myself in their rooms

21:02

It wouldn't fucking come out wouldn't be

21:04

boots with goose Whereas now they're round the coffee machine

21:06

playing pool. They're a voice. They're on the WhatsApp group.

21:08

They're active So but I think it's what that's got

21:10

a lot to with Because

21:16

it feels like Because when you

21:18

came in I remember that we always joke about the first day I

21:20

could see looking at me like getting he was like, you know I

21:22

thought fuck I'm gonna have to fight this guy But

21:25

then we ended up sharing a room we got like house of fire and as soon as

21:27

I Curtain went down. I

21:29

got I saw the real you laughing and joking all

21:32

the time But I can imagine I

21:34

forgot that you'd gone to Plymouth and had all that

21:37

kind of backstory and that it was kind of quite

21:39

chaotic but it seems now that everybody comes into that

21:41

camp is Welcomed and

21:44

the tone is set by the senior players Yeah, I

21:46

agree with what Genji said a minute ago as in

21:48

like it did just you probably you probably just there

21:50

for the start But the old

21:52

school the cultures change and I think

21:54

it probably started with Dylan Dylan

21:57

when he became captain made a big point of making

22:00

people feel welcome. We need these guys to get up to

22:02

speed. We need these guys to feel included. And

22:04

Genji wouldn't like to set himself, but of course

22:06

he's a complete role model coming from the background that

22:08

he's had. Sets

22:11

an example and creates an opportunity

22:13

for people from all different backgrounds

22:15

and all those young lads at

22:17

Bristol must completely look up to you and

22:20

rightly so. And for somebody like Genji

22:22

to come in from that background and

22:25

then fit in like he has and then

22:27

set an example, it's led the

22:29

way along with the effort that senior players

22:31

have put in because we want these young guys to

22:33

come in and come in and be as good as

22:35

they have been in the premiership straight away, feel comfortable,

22:37

feel part of the team. And that has been a

22:39

big effort over the last few years led

22:41

by people like Genji. And I probably

22:43

experienced that a little bit. Like when I first

22:45

came into it, like in 2012,

22:47

I went on to the young lads just kept

22:50

themselves in the room, stayed out of the way of the older

22:52

boys, you know what I mean? And that was just how it

22:54

was then and it wasn't right or wrong. But

22:56

probably to get the best out of these kids, you need to

22:58

get them involved and get them

23:01

feeling right a part of it from the off really.

23:03

I want to talk about before we go

23:05

into more of the England stuff, obviously

23:08

Gloucester this

23:11

weekend, I watched both the highlights of

23:13

the games, quite contrasting, quite high scores

23:15

but a different area. Do you want

23:18

to go Gloucester? Gloucester Sarrie first? Yes,

23:20

you can. So Gloucester Sarrie's run down.

23:23

Gloucester season, success in

23:26

prem cup, trophy, really

23:28

pleased for Lewis Ludlow,

23:31

captain, unconditional in

23:34

the way he gives his whole effort to the club.

23:37

One of the best captains I've ever been here for. So

23:39

over the moon for him to get a trophy for the

23:41

club, it's huge for the club. So prem cup, huge success.

23:44

Europe's going well for us. We're

23:46

in a semi-final at home against Benetton,

23:49

two weeks time. Prem hasn't been

23:51

great. But

23:54

That being said, because it hasn't gone great and

23:56

we have gone well in other competitions, it is

23:59

now an opportunity. For us to or

24:01

us or scapes to to push them

24:03

younger players And that's what happened at

24:05

the Way You can be sent a

24:07

younger squad await Saracens. And yes, the

24:09

school was four yards. Twenty. Odd.

24:12

But. That was actually a lot upon since in

24:14

there for a young guys we did make it

24:16

difficult for them halfway a hat trick Yeah Joseph

24:18

way to show my so tired Joseph Joseph know

24:20

it's Josh Holloway had also theory of natural behavior

24:22

because the heels of a Adam Joseph way shot

24:25

young player but it is any twenty easy calcasieu

24:27

says that we're trying to camp. I did a

24:29

pretty cool job. the I am a month ago

24:31

I get is that I've seen him on I

24:33

remember when you buy them com I would just

24:35

get name of slightly just put mafia the see

24:38

how does he said Ms S sort of the

24:40

other exactly So I did with i'm Tom Willis.

24:42

According to him I took him for weeks at

24:44

he came up with his you know my name's

24:46

Thomas I know was way to see whether you

24:48

could do you just get a sly our job

24:50

Josh doesn't matter of fact that I was yes

24:53

I know that the not succeeded as like to

24:55

go away and get a bonus point without seeming

24:57

and suppose I'm thousand seems is actually have a

24:59

positive with own post if we consider author and

25:01

we've got with baronet with we got see things

25:03

go after authors of season or was having with

25:05

you was or update the time I have that

25:07

way but what bombed or next season or we

25:10

i did anything anything so puppy five of what

25:12

well. Salaries my update for next season.

25:14

Probably unlikely to bake off, sir. Are

25:17

not just one of those things, but I'm fully

25:20

committed to. Given. Everything I've got. For

25:23

the club for the remaining games and it's amazing

25:25

to be in this European competition. Hopes I get

25:27

to play and the semifinal louise time to big

25:29

will hope so yeah I hope so like like

25:31

like hands he said it's he might push him

25:33

young guys in the prowl I may be might

25:35

not play in the prem quite so much now

25:37

by would love to plan the and the semifinal.

25:39

I played in the quarter final in the last

25:41

sixteen so and and and when alright so hopefully

25:43

I can be a pause the and then just

25:45

to see what happens after that the. On

25:48

the season at Gloucester. like we said it's been some some

25:50

chinese and times in the Prem but the Prem cup haven't

25:52

been appalled. That has been great to see the last get

25:55

the rewards and the Europeans have been good if if we

25:57

get of if we gonna do I possess was like a

25:59

good to. The certainly become a fireman

26:01

when you finish. Where. Would

26:03

you hypothetically like to play next? eat?

26:05

I'd imagine it will be overseas. Just

26:09

because I wouldn't really want to go to

26:11

another permissive club or anything in Iowa. by.

26:14

His. Eye to eye thing under Snyder the under

26:16

something of the authenticity I sound ain't nothing

26:18

other than fifteen seasons and and the premiership

26:20

are not like. My intentions very much off

26:22

the World Cup was to Segelstrom do one

26:24

more season Augusta and I breathed wanna do

26:26

that and it just that hasn't what now

26:28

and it's nobody's fault process been a great

26:30

come from a amazing club it's my home

26:32

Ons doubt I'd like alive Jersey Wednesday other

26:34

quite work out but that doesn't change. Also

26:36

towards the end of the season and when

26:38

I'm with my little baby maybe to play

26:40

abroad for a see also a bit sick

26:42

country Europe think it is roughly. Honestly. Have

26:44

anywhere and I'll add as lot since there's nothing

26:46

concrete some at the moment that is like sending

26:49

a house you are people who say all one

26:51

might be interested I acquire and of a the

26:53

west africa say Isis is nothing concrete Me at

26:55

the moment I'm I'm totally something comes up on

26:57

footy to so cast on. The consists

27:00

of two entities and so yeah. okay well

27:02

as well. So excited. Watch this space him

27:04

and then unity. Are you a record breaking

27:06

out? Would I? What? What? I've read Oakland

27:08

and all of a sudden Bressler and that

27:10

they're going to be taught fourth an hour

27:12

film from us. Some of the I knowing

27:14

I come from nowhere. There's a quote hey

27:16

from Adam halfway into times it says as

27:18

a schedule shuffler. Showed Ohio has

27:20

Adam Hathaway shown that official me out

27:22

and went to North South Africa or

27:24

that are an article don't know. John

27:27

has always good a hat trick and

27:29

I say just doesn't matter item item

27:31

halfway in the times as miscarriage and

27:33

causing for the to props passport number

27:35

tens and games sidestepping. First off school

27:37

could have had a bad for the

27:39

front row union. Adams a

27:42

nice sausage. Them. Yeah.

27:44

For yourself, he was uses with that jokes.

27:47

Deserves. Adam Halfway City for you can

27:49

I surely hope he will Not a

27:51

were in. The author is no you

27:53

know? oh god no right For the

27:55

halfway through a how strict Patrick Yeah

27:57

is nothing if not always a hot

27:59

spot. The

28:02

halfway was able to awfully an Adam's Hathaway

28:04

in the Times said as his cage causing

28:06

the to prompt past that number tens again

28:08

decisively burst. Ah school. couldn't bad for the

28:10

front row union racy. Maybe it's to go.

28:12

Yeah that that's clever. have been apart at

28:14

the playground. guess you had a bet with

28:16

during so I don't He says you have

28:18

a pie the plague on I thought you

28:20

went to play guns have a pi no

28:22

way cooler pitch the playground and I didn't

28:24

the Us to the movies from some psychology

28:27

shooter your. But to explain one hundred games

28:29

are jews and credible We must be. Placed

28:31

ah. Mixed

28:33

emotions, Spurious. Would.

28:36

Not many mixes it all. Right?

28:39

Like epitome of really care what administrator and

28:41

so on society the moon if I'm being

28:43

serious Side: I was actually quite. A

28:45

doting us Good game. Winning

28:48

like boss the premise of his way the

28:50

moment as be a top flight com the

28:52

Assad. I don't think there should be a

28:54

disparity like that for it. Seem this is

28:56

not the history that club out there are.

28:58

no guys are closer watches them. Okay what

29:00

I have to get a good holiday together

29:02

and some really good players really good people

29:04

that club some good friends of mine so

29:06

a member we school woods what would have

29:08

been like on nights try and we were

29:10

woman up to gary don't know why maybe

29:12

warm up again ridiculous which come off when

29:14

he said stay will be micro by cause

29:16

I have so stiff please visit. But ice

29:18

or be into that is Lucas who is

29:20

upset Anyway we woman are gonna post was

29:22

schooled what would have an unknown try and

29:25

it was very me of think scored nope

29:27

care mom in the skull mask on a

29:29

me thinks and gave. When in

29:31

said celebrate I see both boys full buff and

29:33

of watch the i like the Us I kick

29:35

in a mammal don't choose the summer faces an

29:37

A Fat Miss is not good spot for the.

29:40

For them or the. Political.

29:42

nice but i know and i'd buy the us

29:44

as if you don't want to say i am

29:46

why would i run in and starts we scored

29:48

nine tried is no point in jump know as

29:50

far as i don't have to learn about about

29:52

the size of play i was my dad was

29:54

bolland mean from for numerous things but made was

29:56

that you that's the i'm celebrate the sometimes when

29:58

you're you're focused on sauce It's the next shot.

30:00

Do you know what I mean? Especially if you're pumping a stone

30:03

out. It wasn't even about the next job situation. It was more

30:05

so literally about, like, fuck me, I actually, I felt, yeah.

30:08

It's funny, if they went all right, it's less than the

30:10

last Premiership game. Well, they'd have to dig it down to

30:12

12. Okay, yeah. Anyway,

30:15

it was a good day. We won 85-14 record-breaking for

30:17

Bristol. Biggest

30:22

ever home win, I think, in the league.

30:25

Did you know you only kicked the ball four times against

30:27

Newcastle? Really? Yeah. Which is that part

30:29

of the plan, I'll just keep the ball in

30:31

hand, because it works, I mean, admittedly, I don't

30:33

think it's any like, it's not rabbit the hat

30:36

stuff that we don't kick the ball that much

30:38

in our own half. No, you just

30:40

like to run everything. Well, I was

30:43

not against it, but I've been coached differently, been at

30:45

Leicester, been used to this, rugby

30:47

come to Bristol, and Pat likes keeping hold

30:50

of the ball, and the idea of giving it back to the

30:52

opposition, is why don't we break them

30:54

down? So I'm enjoying it at the moment. I took a

30:56

bit of getting used to it, but I'm really enjoying it,

30:58

and obviously the boys are on fire, so I think

31:01

it really suits us down to the ground. I mean,

31:03

it looks unbelievable. I know Stinkler got intercepted,

31:06

but the handling, just the options to go wide,

31:08

the footwork, the offloads, Ibertoyo on the wing, mate,

31:10

he's unbelievable. I think we've, yeah, he's a serious

31:13

talent, and for a game like that, he's one

31:15

of the best players on the planet to actually

31:17

play in it. I

31:19

think the, excuse me, the game plan we've got, yeah,

31:22

halfway, and the game plan that we've got, I think

31:24

the way we've recruited and the players we've got at

31:26

the moment suits it down to a tee, so it's

31:28

almost like why would you ask a monkey to swim

31:30

in? You were kicking it a bit more at the start

31:32

of the season. Yeah,

31:34

but you've got to think now that the weather's

31:36

getting hotter, it's drier, and for the winter

31:38

months, you probably can't do what we're

31:41

trying to do now. You're definitely nice, but okay. And

31:43

I think traditionally you see Bristol, even when I wasn't

31:45

at the club, under pat, pick

31:47

most of their points up towards the end of the season. Because

31:51

it's drier, naturally, it's the easiest catch of

31:53

all. You've won the last four games now,

31:55

and four of the primary. Weren't you like, be

31:58

the nine, eight, weren't you at

32:00

point? Eight, but separated by seven points.

32:03

Yeah, it's misleading, isn't it? But now you're in

32:05

force. You

32:07

were on fire, obviously, we debriefed the game,

32:09

you were brilliant against Ireland, you come back

32:12

to Bristol, do you feel

32:14

that pressure to perform? Because four

32:16

others were there? I've always

32:18

felt, as an international, I know

32:21

we spend a lot of time away, especially the way

32:23

the season was structured, has changed a bit now, but

32:25

I've always felt a need to come back. And

32:28

as an international, we've spent a lot of way,

32:30

the boys of whether they've been struggling or on fire,

32:32

to come in and give you an absolute all. That's

32:34

why I've always opted to play the first game when

32:36

you get offered that week off. I say, no, I

32:39

want to play every single time. Same

32:41

with summer tours, when I've come back, I don't think we're

32:43

allowed to do it legally now, but after the summer tour,

32:45

I don't want to miss that first game in the season.

32:47

I think where we've got it

32:49

wrong and rugby sometimes is, it's

32:52

nice that the international players are looked after well and

32:54

put on a pedestal, but in the same breath, if

32:56

you look at football, it's the complete opposite. And they're

32:59

obviously significantly more popular than us. Football

33:01

is a sport in general, for whatever reason.

33:03

But one of them I do think is

33:05

because people get behind the club sports so

33:07

much in football, whereas sometimes we almost, we

33:10

don't see the product as internationals playing

33:13

for club. We see it as internationals,

33:15

clubs facilitate in 40 internationals, whereas I

33:18

don't think that dynamic. That's why the viewing figures

33:20

don't translate numbers in the stage. Exactly that.

33:22

So that's why I almost feel an onus to

33:24

come back and give more. And look, I'm

33:26

Brazilian, bottom line being I am Brazilian. I love,

33:29

as I said earlier, seeing these young kids in

33:31

the stand thinking they can be a part

33:33

of it as well. And yeah, this gave me

33:35

a new purpose. Did you feel like, Johnny, when you were playing

33:37

for England, did you want to come back and play or you

33:39

were slightly more precious? No, like

33:41

you want to play as well as you can,

33:43

but then get back to your club. But you

33:45

are, it's difficult. It is difficult. And Genji's point

33:48

about the football I take on board, but it

33:51

is a different game, like to do an autumn series or

33:53

a six nations. I agree. I agree. But

33:56

it's not just me just in your legs.

33:58

It's banging around as well. And

34:00

it is difficult that first game back that first

34:02

game back for your club. I found it difficult

34:04

I thought I thought I found that first game

34:06

back I found very difficult because it was like

34:09

you the emotional come down more than you've got

34:11

I'm aware of that you're a finish line and

34:14

then how do you start again? But imagine I think

34:16

it was your point is exactly right those both sides

34:18

of the corner Yeah, I'm almost trying

34:20

to talk about the the betterment of the game as

34:23

opposed to how I felt as a person No, you're

34:25

right. I felt a responsibility that I have I have

34:27

the betterment of the game is the big big the

34:29

big players and the best players playing every game Number

34:34

of times on here about having Because

34:36

the club game the international game crowing club

34:38

games shrinking Crowing or

34:40

growing right boy. Yeah, what's crowing? I thought

34:43

I didn't know what you meant. I think

34:45

growing quite quickly I'm

34:47

on the slope. I don't know what you said. I

34:50

was just asking what you said. Oi Fucking

34:52

show easy. Yeah, listen crowing. I said

34:54

one week halfway And

34:56

what you say Adams a sausage? No, that's what

34:59

I thought that was in the article. No, I

35:01

know it's confused you So

35:03

I noticed Ellis calls everyone

35:06

a sausage not our producer Tom has

35:08

put Adams a nice sausage in it

35:10

as a joke Okay, basically just implying

35:12

that you know, he's a good lad

35:14

cuz my rugby writers are

35:16

sausages But he obviously is a good guy

35:18

because you've picked out Ellis and and stink

35:21

National games growing if we got data to prove

35:23

that yeah Yeah, it's

35:25

growing money But

35:27

but the premise is shrinking and a lot of time

35:30

that does it doesn't translate Yeah, for example when you

35:32

go watch World Cup's the third most watch sporting event

35:34

in the world, which is huge Which is huge, right?

35:36

But if you go and see anyone you go club

35:38

to support. I don't really like club game I just

35:41

support English that is gonna win a bit like cricket.

35:43

It's getting that way, isn't it? It's in between football

35:45

and cricket because they've got the one day is they

35:47

got a twenty twenty twenty Ipl

35:50

and that's the viewing figures for that. Yeah,

35:52

they get addicted to it, but rugby is missing that

35:54

connection. So I Think you're right. One Thing we talked

35:56

about is you need to have more superheroes in rugby

35:58

them to get behind. But I also want

36:01

to be able to see them on show for their

36:03

clutches get in there with this more damage if i

36:05

guess is that is area and as it is a

36:07

better talk about forty i think with but you need

36:09

rent the relegation issue is is a Sega is us

36:12

less it you kind of excitement on the pollen preserve

36:14

yeah yeah but it or of and get our my

36:16

purse abuse I i was not massive mccain or odds

36:18

when i went to problems I simply states does though

36:20

relegation that we met you got to play brand of

36:23

rugby the might I thought the seasons come to fruition

36:25

but i did mine for see i the odds of

36:27

a pulmonary relegation but but in a oh so yeah

36:29

people people. Move on announcer I are on my

36:31

when nicely done with that. A week is

36:33

who's the about receive. Cats are always the

36:35

same we are talking about his phone and

36:37

that league where rugby is number one sport

36:39

yes a great whereas in in our country

36:41

is not so you need. Yeah three units

36:43

have been I I I I agree I

36:45

just ambition they promised vow to never let

36:47

a team come up with him. Gonna change

36:49

room seats, tiles, ethnicity or was v of

36:51

a guy said Mrs is pretty things about it

36:54

should be about what the dog show that I'm

36:56

Glasgow sort of at Bristol is some tools

36:58

coming up boys on fire at any. Particular

37:00

place from Bristol you think should be should

37:02

be revolting. I am. I think that we've

37:04

got a lot of young English players who

37:07

play and brilliant rugby by. Also think that

37:09

there are. So. Many who

37:11

played so well of the last twelve

37:13

months though I don't think in a Saudi

37:15

should be picked on immediate. Form

37:18

of just because of the run and it

37:20

ended. Yeah, the way we play makes make

37:22

people happy. As of today he was of

37:24

a closed beta brand. European test rugby is

37:27

a difference. A primer. be so few jogging

37:29

or that's a thing if it's always been

37:31

fantastic I gave. Oh great. Obviously they're the

37:33

young hooker. Know

37:36

a huge. Heroin. Good as

37:38

well as he is paid it national before nothing

37:40

is tough Iran's because he sees fantastic of these

37:43

got season the her his his his name's in

37:45

the hot though is now Sunday a nice doesn't

37:47

he do I can shop he does a lot

37:49

to school with our for like immigrants yeah lovely

37:52

guy is good guy o l l on he

37:54

sees very fun spirit such done a lot more

37:56

tools things them. To. tooth in

37:58

and around or not I've seen him

38:00

with the guy. I mean, as a squad man, like

38:02

going away on a tour, he's brilliant value. So I

38:05

think that probably be taking the night. See Max Meyling's

38:07

playing well again. He's playing really good. Any sharp. He's

38:09

a mega line. He ran off. Yeah, it was nice.

38:11

Oh my God. I made him. You did. You did

38:13

thread that ball. You know, there was a bit of

38:15

a hint of either way. In the warm up, the

38:17

way we were running that in the week, Max

38:20

was running square on some giving

38:22

away trick or trader, but Max running square onto

38:24

the ball. And I said to him, because

38:27

we were playing out the back, I said, don't,

38:30

don't come too early. I want them to think we're going

38:33

to go out the back again. And then I said,

38:35

last second, I'll just put it in there. And then

38:37

you can get it. And he said, yeah, no stress.

38:39

And he runs a serious line. That was a tight

38:41

space. You run across them. Yeah, they'd all turn. Well,

38:43

that's what I said. I said, I'm going to go

38:45

straight and then I'll get to the defender that should

38:47

be exactly new. And then obviously he'd come from that

38:49

blind spot. He put a little bit forward. I don't

38:51

know whether it's just momentum of running one. I think

38:53

also because I'm running sideways, obviously, as soon as I

38:55

pass by, then drop. I thought it was mega. I

38:57

mean, that was a mega line for it. Come on,

38:59

mate. Sorry. He wants to cancel it. He wants to

39:01

cancel the try. No, we're hard. You do. And just,

39:03

will that try that you scored be on your show

39:06

real? Will that be something you're all going to put

39:08

on the wall? Because that was, it was all

39:10

right. Yeah. Well, come on. You don't see

39:12

props that go out, break a tackle, take

39:14

on a fallback, go round and palm him

39:16

off. Or rounds give him a bit of grief

39:18

the other week saying that I'm a one trip bony. I was going

39:20

to bump people. And then I stepped him and he said, why didn't

39:23

you bump people? I want to talk to you. I'll start with Ellis

39:25

on this. Okay. So,

39:31

uh, I don't have a lot of

39:34

the rugby public. No, but it got announced, um, a

39:36

little while ago that the England player

39:38

group, the EPS group were no longer working with

39:40

the RPA to negotiate contracts. Now that was, that

39:42

was unheard of. It didn't sort of escape the

39:44

radar, but it didn't make the big, the biggest

39:46

splash. I thought it was going to do because

39:49

that's a massive shout since the dawn of time,

39:51

the RPA have negotiated the EPS contract with the

39:53

RFU on behalf of the players, salaries,

39:56

breaks, image rights, um,

39:58

you know, sponsorship stuff. In

40:01

conjunction with that, there's obviously been muted these hybrid

40:03

contracts. Now there was an article done the other

40:05

day, basically in the Daily Mail, so again you

40:07

have to take the pinch of salt, but essentially

40:10

they said that these contracts are non-existent at the

40:12

moment, nothing's moved forward, negotiations are broken down,

40:15

and basically what it says

40:18

is that the RFP are meant to be offering

40:20

hybrid club country contracts to 25 players. These

40:23

will see those players receiving a additional 150k on top of their club

40:25

wage. In theory,

40:27

this should give Steve more control over those

40:29

25 players to manage their workloads and everything

40:31

else. Obviously, Marotoj and Jamie George have been

40:34

offered these contracts, but that's where we've got

40:36

to, but there's going to be nothing else

40:38

about it. The Daily Mail article insinuated that

40:41

nothing's happening, it's all stalled, the wheels have

40:43

fallen off. Can you give us insights

40:45

on what's happening? Because it seems to be like it's the biggest

40:47

you've bubbled it away. I'll give you as much of an insight

40:49

as I can without, firstly, I

40:52

think business is business, I think you should keep that

40:54

in the four walls, which

40:57

obviously hasn't been done previously

40:59

to this. There's

41:01

discussions going on, I think, as we just spoke

41:03

about the international game being where it's at, I

41:06

think if we really want to optimise

41:08

performance in that sense, if you look at the

41:10

Ireland model and people like that, it seems to

41:12

work in New Zealand as well. I

41:15

think that's been sort of spitballed around for a few

41:17

years, probably in your playing time as well. If

41:21

you go back onto the commercial subjects,

41:23

I think that if you look at the numbers, I'm not

41:25

going to chuck anyone on the bus here, but if you

41:27

look at the numbers for the RFU

41:29

in general, they're like that. Whereas

41:33

the commercial value of the players,

41:35

and this goes back to making

41:37

players idols, like you said, Making them

41:40

stars, exactly that. It goes back to

41:42

that as opposed to them playing

41:44

for England, making it a case of Johnny

41:46

May being the talent. I

41:49

think the players' commercial value has been like that probably since

41:51

2012, 2011, before the big social media surge of Instagram

41:53

and stuff like that. So

41:57

I think we wanted onus on how to make

41:59

it. We control our commercial value as opposed to

42:02

it be. Like. You said always

42:04

been the same since. What if I suns? Fan

42:07

since the it begin to sort out yet.

42:09

oh yes we wanted a bit more control

42:11

over that and that was one of the

42:13

main pushes buttons same sense we wanna be

42:15

one about the game we wanna have control

42:17

one than an answer to ourselves essentially of

42:19

of how we pushed again forward know acid

42:21

jump through these loopholes and air they are

42:23

not us not to notice not gonna slide

42:25

of so I may yet the that's essentially

42:28

a thing as as no smoke without fire.probably

42:30

think that we thought was gonna be lot

42:32

smoother. Than. We.

42:34

Say we were adamant who's away what why

42:36

and how nice clothing and same home so

42:38

I see us so it's also not twenty

42:40

five and think is a maximum of of

42:42

twenty five Fly or think ask me twenty

42:44

five and we i honestly know as much

42:46

as the the topless these were certain degree

42:48

wields or civil from the conversations bus because

42:50

we were in a world cup we than

42:53

to the six nations what form we have

42:55

a notch have much on speak and of

42:57

say I preferred another eve I like doing

42:59

in a flash yes so obviously people schedules

43:01

after lineup and you have to go on

43:03

Me in is set to answer. Is absorb a

43:05

city? To break

43:07

you down layman terms the you have five

43:09

the Rp I saw and as only go

43:11

so we change hands which I intense and

43:13

and you as a player group run by

43:15

it's a number players with I imagine professional

43:18

house I'm has directs is my guys right

43:20

to the guy and and other they direct

43:22

is it will continuously change as as you

43:24

move on The they sent me did from

43:26

within a survey and we we had a

43:28

vote from the last I got a that

43:30

ends at a what about wanna violated and

43:32

about imagine they would have to change every

43:34

so often see bases.the union said yes yes

43:36

audience. And union and you are now go

43:38

say by the company the most hop on We

43:41

got our first com the a drain on

43:43

tuscany but he is a union for example or

43:45

like a voice or whatever you go into that

43:47

and you're now to go say directly with the

43:49

are a few the first will how's that be

43:52

receive the rt because they would sights taste with

43:54

a capital eggs was been go to think both

43:56

parties wanted to work I am because of see

43:58

that's a good really. The city that wanted

44:01

to be a conflict the I'm in between

44:03

the two. But

44:05

there are she hasn't been much opportunity to negotiate

44:07

for. Will have just said and sends a schedule

44:09

in in my offer that so that's why said

44:11

we probably thought was going be a lot quicker

44:14

but in the roads in the business where there's

44:16

actually it's tough to make every sketches on were

44:18

playing each week you are folks on math club,

44:20

competition and and stuff or that so is his

44:22

spare time to the moment but hopefully we'll we'll

44:25

push on some of that. What I'm saying so

44:27

is basically the written as be no Progress Reddit

44:29

I'm I'm. Not. That height awesome fav

44:31

singer the the conversations among sauce from

44:33

off most expensive but like I said

44:36

is no smoke without fire I'm sure

44:38

that someone is speaking slam and I

44:40

sell an M X ones that and

44:43

yeah and what what what A Terms

44:45

of the what you're sort of manifest

44:47

that you once you once increase commercial

44:49

rights a better representation regards to for

44:52

think players will be in not sold

44:54

off but work We we are the

44:56

commercial products so speak and I we

44:59

we we are the not the brand

45:01

but we are the people the people

45:03

considered somewhat place of for. We wanted

45:05

clarity over over what was happening with

45:08

the the commercial, the use of all

45:10

of commercial image and stuff like that.

45:14

A lot you did with Dylan in. or yes,

45:16

that's when. Eighteen twenty six to twenty fifty two

45:18

A sixty those intimated minutes when is getting. Yeah,

45:20

so similar to that. but we want complete control

45:22

as it is a mate as he could have

45:24

when I over see things they want more money.

45:26

That Vespasian World is not that is is is

45:28

it goes a lot. The business. Three A is

45:31

I think it's popular applied quite a mess

45:33

a thing. com. Maybe. Maybe guns?

45:35

He doesn't wanna say that. that is a

45:37

mess. I like that new contracts and he

45:39

saw thing that players have been out of

45:41

contract. Is there a hybrid conferences

45:43

or not? If there is a hybrid

45:45

contract how many players other on the

45:47

high become shots it as hybrid contracts

45:49

or less. Best Talkers: The. Are

45:51

you do an heiress and see and medical? But

45:54

how june fourth that is. the club's pay them. I

45:56

don't see how that works and how much are they

45:58

gonna be paid. When they're gonna

46:00

start. And is is

46:03

pretty gray and it's pre seems seems

46:05

like as a lot to work out.

46:08

And when by like that players who may be

46:10

would have lights had made a decision this season

46:12

as to whether they stayed in England or not.

46:15

and not knowing if their own a contract to not would

46:17

have been useful to no. Sense and helps make

46:19

that decision so there's there's more. A lot for work

46:22

out so. I. Can't say been ready anytime

46:24

soon. The the are if you have said hey. This.

46:27

Quote: Discover Ofsted officer Everything is in

46:29

good shape and will see some progress

46:31

on July the first when you professional

46:33

game partnerships Pgp kicks in. Either are

46:35

the I've I was never in my

46:37

on the years so that that. Does.

46:40

Come sooner than a Sunday and was be

46:42

renegotiated. Source: thus war that is sexist dumpsters

46:44

you have to have to wait around with

46:46

en route or and handed over to my

46:48

the people. and I guess that's probably why

46:51

is this needed to see in their hands

46:53

Six months ago did and it isn't So

46:55

the at There's gonna be some teething issues

46:57

with the transfer allowing. I know there isn't

46:59

any block their own. He says nothing about

47:01

Dicicco is the players. To.

47:03

Know what they want to do their future when

47:05

they don't know what the future as an hour

47:08

prettier of nurses not auto erotic work itself out.

47:10

know now that so he moves otherwise way I

47:12

look at the moment yeah he saw without a

47:14

solitary while west landscape takings officers say Guadalupe will

47:17

sign or the and will sign the contract otherwise

47:19

we're far. you're right size of years idea what

47:21

what are the world could get away with it.

47:24

Still is kind of like is like the

47:26

Us to sauce you both. Each of the

47:28

questions assault us. Are you are

47:30

countless hybrid contracts to think it makes sense? Would

47:32

you wanna be sent to contract? Did you like

47:34

it is the don't care what would have a

47:36

i feel. For

47:39

the know what are known so we get

47:41

the intricacies of contract. Saw it. Some

47:44

reasonably impartial I won't I won't against growth.

47:46

This is was gonna make the game grow

47:48

them brilliance. I was a regressive. Going to

47:50

skyrocket and be extremely popular, be fantastic and

47:52

then cycle for for such a going to

47:55

dwindle Bernard Bobby I'm James who built farm

47:57

and was that a fire so I'd rather

47:59

see the. I don't want to see the latter, I

48:01

don't want to see Rogue Five. I

48:03

think we've got a great opportunity with a great crop

48:05

of young players coming through to really take

48:08

control of it and if that is in

48:10

the hands of a hybrid

48:12

contract then yeah, I'm all for it. What about you? Are

48:14

you out of it? No, no, now that I'm out, what

48:16

I want for the boys is I want them looked after

48:18

physically, I want them to be paid well, I

48:21

want the game to grow but I don't know

48:23

how, I can't see how it works, I don't

48:25

see how a hybrid deal works because

48:27

I don't see how it's possible

48:29

for the RFU to say they're doing medical and

48:32

medical and SNC at your clubs when

48:34

they're on a hybrid contract. For instance,

48:36

let's say Genji's touring New Zealand in

48:39

the summer, yeah, he bangs, Genji bangs his

48:41

shoulder and he's got a final against

48:46

Northampton at Twickenham. The

48:48

RFU come in and say, well we don't want Genji playing in

48:50

that final. Well the

48:52

club are going to play him in that final so that I don't

48:54

know how you work through these

48:57

issues and it's

48:59

very, very great but it's

49:01

a good job I'm not sorting out because I

49:04

don't know how to sort out and

49:06

there's a bit of a problem and there needs to be a bit

49:08

of a solution but yeah, players played

49:10

well, looked after, grew the game and

49:13

navigate your way through these murky waters. And

49:15

while I've got you on the spot,

49:17

you don't have to necessarily answer me but I'll start with

49:19

you Jonny, would you change

49:21

this rule so players play the

49:23

broad can play Freeman if you

49:25

had a chance? At the moment,

49:27

yes, because there's opportunities for people to

49:29

develop and earn more money abroad, experience

49:32

different things. So

49:35

yeah, I think that they should be allowed here. What about you? Because

49:37

you're losing your mate Stinkler who by the way has got a

49:39

great back tattoo. For a man who was always concerned about his

49:41

back looking small, he's now got his whole back tattooed. It

49:44

was some incoherent bullets Instagram that made no

49:46

sense only to that Survivor World thing that

49:48

he talks about, it's like riddles. But

49:51

I mean he's going abroad, he's cyber too long. Would

49:54

you change rules so he can play? How

49:56

would you feel that? For me, similar to what Jonny

49:58

said, I think when the Premiership was this great. great

50:01

league and we had all the best overseas players coming in

50:03

when you played at Woss you had Charles Pia Tal. George

50:06

Smith. George, you had some of

50:08

the best players literally to grace the shirt playing

50:11

in the premiership and I come through Marcus Iertz so I

50:13

don't know if I'm in the premiership. The

50:15

young players don't have that now coming through, they

50:17

don't have these mental players

50:19

who are literally the goats in our sport

50:21

playing at premiership clubs. So for

50:23

me, when three clubs have gone under and

50:26

the product isn't as good, I actually think it's a slight

50:28

contradiction saying that we want to keep the best players here

50:32

where the league isn't as good as the other leagues so surely

50:34

you'd want them to develop in... it's

50:36

tough isn't it? I can see

50:38

both sides of the coin but for me right

50:40

now like Jonny said, in the state of where

50:42

the league's at, I think we would benefit from

50:45

opening that, broadening our horizons and letting people

50:47

play elsewhere but then obviously there's a

50:49

disparity of saying are people just going

50:51

to take the highest bidder or are they going to actually

50:54

go somewhere where they're going to play the best rugby? I

50:56

think actually rugby you learn pretty quickly that if you go

50:58

for the money only, it doesn't matter how much money you're

51:00

being paid, if you're losing and it's shit, you'll come home

51:02

pretty quickly. I think people talk about it as Exodus, I

51:04

don't think it would happen, I think it all levels it

51:06

out. I don't even know, you think about it, you think

51:08

about it, they say we want the young players to learn

51:10

off the best players, we want them to play them but

51:13

if some of the senior players, like you said,

51:15

there wouldn't be an Exodus, not everyone would go. I enjoy, I

51:17

want to play for Bristol, I want to play for Bristol. You

51:20

look at the youngsters that have the opportunity to come

51:22

through, sometimes they're not given the opportunity because you have

51:24

to play your England players, you have to play international

51:26

to a certain degree and

51:29

it almost stops the talent coming through whereas if

51:31

you actually let the very senior players, you know

51:33

what they can do, go away and apply their

51:36

trade elsewhere whilst getting paid well but

51:38

ultimately not having the flexibility to come back

51:40

to England as

51:43

and when you please I guess is the issue

51:45

and I get that but then the youngsters would

51:47

then come through and push those players as opposed

51:49

to it and you've experienced it when it's just

51:51

the same old guard just guaranteed, you

51:53

know, like I'd like to see Challenge, I'd

51:55

like to see the youngsters come through. If

51:57

you've seen that 25th century contracted play. it

52:00

should be between him and the player. They could

52:02

be like, right, this is actually, Henry Arendelle playing

52:04

at Raphting is actually brilliant for you right now.

52:06

You get to play abroad, big stadium, amazing players.

52:08

Is this going to make you a better international

52:10

player? Do that, he's got 25, like the New

52:13

Zealand, they've got Jordy Barrett going to Leinzner. They've

52:15

got... But Jordy Barrett would normally,

52:17

I think would have come to a premiership, or maybe

52:19

a front-end team. In the past, maybe. Not now. And

52:22

then he's got Boden Barrett playing in Japan,

52:24

and at first it's his body. Like, so

52:26

there's a case by case. That's

52:28

what Jordy's at the now and the other day.

52:31

It is a case by case example. I think

52:33

as well, in the modern game, it

52:35

wouldn't be hard for both of us to go,

52:37

Henry Arendelle will steer a central contract, you go

52:39

and play at Raphting, Stuart Lancaster's coach at Raphting.

52:41

Exactly. You understand how it works, we

52:43

need him for these windows, we understand you're paying him a

52:45

fortune, we're topping him up. For fuck's sake, it's one game

52:47

a season, can we make it work? People forget as well

52:50

that Henry's club went bust the last time of the season.

52:52

And then two other clubs did, so it's actually the clubs

52:54

that would have probably allowed to pick him up. Yeah. Jordy

52:57

and England saw it. Not everyone. And the cap came

52:59

down by two mil. When he signed that contract, it

53:01

was higher. Do you know what I mean? All that stuff.

53:03

I think, I don't, as far as I'm concerned, I would

53:05

change the rule and I wouldn't have any cap limit on

53:08

it. I'd let people go off and explore. I don't think

53:10

it's friendly. I think it's the best journey of my life.

53:12

I think it's an amazing experience to go off and be

53:14

able to have that. And I think borders having that choice,

53:16

I think would only help the game. Right,

53:20

we've got a Continental Tires quiz, lads.

53:23

It's a very exciting segment. We haven't done it before.

53:25

We always have a Continental Tires question. We've got a

53:27

quiz, because we're all big fans of Eddie Jones. So

53:30

I thought I'd quiz you on some famous

53:32

quotes about England players from

53:34

Eddie. It's our Continental Tires quiz. You have

53:36

to guess the player that

53:39

the quote is about. So if you shout it

53:41

out, get it wrong, the other player gets the

53:43

next turn. So what's my buzz word? I'll

53:45

click my fingers and what are you gonna do? Yeah,

53:48

he'll make a round three. I mean, we didn't need buzz

53:51

words. You've invented a new section of the game. I love

53:53

these guys. See, oh, you know, Tins and Alex. I

53:55

mean, I think this is better. I mean, I'd love to pick

53:58

the viewers to write and go, do you like this kind of

54:00

younger format? Do you prefer us? Alex

54:03

makes that game that nobody can understand, only he understands that

54:05

Peter out halfway through and Tins is always on his phone

54:07

or either asleep or day-taught. Alex is like an MP, he

54:09

just reads off his script, don't he? He does, he doesn't

54:11

think he's done. Alex

54:13

is very, very good. But he does make up really complicated

54:15

games that no one understands or likes to play. So the

54:18

first quote is, somebody, that's

54:20

the gap, is like a voxel

54:22

Viva, eh? And we want to make him into a

54:24

BMW. Any guesses, lad? So they're gonna have

54:26

to push you down. It's a forward. Hard point. I'll give you

54:28

that, I'll give you a forward. Hard

54:31

point. Well, I don't know, Tom Conscio, I don't know if

54:33

you're half-pitched. Not inventing rules for the game, Alex. Can

54:36

you just give us? A clue. Well, he's

54:38

a forward. No, but like, era.

54:40

Era, similar to our era.

54:42

2016 made his debut. Tim

54:47

on Harrison. No. That's

54:49

you. He's a big noise,

54:52

global. Marrow? Yeah. Marrow

54:55

Togy is like a voxel Viva mate. And we want to make

54:57

him into a BMW. There's nothing about Marrow, he's just like a

54:59

voxel with a pearl. No, no, when he first came in, he's

55:01

a black pearl. When we

55:03

came in, he was a regular fitness, he couldn't really pass. Do

55:05

you not remember this? I

55:07

remember, he's always been athletic. Yes, yes, but he wasn't- I

55:09

don't remember him being bad at fitness. No, but he was, yeah,

55:12

no, we did the World Cup camp in 2015. Yes, I

55:14

remember that. Yeah, he was- No,

55:16

no, he was blown out as well. And he's passed,

55:18

he was- I can imagine anyone who'd been blown out

55:20

there after 2015, if they'd just come in from under

55:22

20s. Yeah, fucking. I'm not saying it's the bad, that's

55:25

why he was a voxel viver. Sorry, yeah, we're criticising

55:27

you, but it's actually the quote that we're- Yeah, Eddie's

55:29

a little bit off. And basically, Marrow when he made

55:31

his debut, was he 20? Yeah.

55:34

Yeah, he was 20, and basically he was saying, everyone was

55:36

saying that he's the best in Sun's size bed, and Eddie's-

55:38

Eddie had a ground him. He's a voxel viver, ground him,

55:40

he's a BMW, and he has turned into a Ferrari. Ironically,

55:43

well, not ironically, but he has. Right, okay.

55:47

Next quote, it might be the long hair and the beard.

55:50

Somebody is like Samson, he gets better with

55:52

longer hair. Oh, this quiz isn't doing

55:55

too well, is it? Yeah, I've written another one. Jesus, I'm not

55:57

good at quizzes. Would you- I

56:00

mean, at this point in particular,

56:02

old school, my era, Tom Wood.

56:04

Yeah. Yes. Well done.

56:06

Yeah. Okay, this one. Mate,

56:09

he looks like a butcher, don't you reckon? When you

56:12

go down to your local butcher shops, you can see

56:14

behind there. He

56:16

looks like a butcher, don't you reckon? Yeah, we hear you. Just

56:18

make sure you repeat it. It's what they do at normal Chris

56:20

shows. Oh, John is thinking you're saying the same thing.

56:22

Tom Dunn. Tom Dunn. Tom

56:25

Dunn. No, not Tom Dunn. This is... They

56:28

call him the butcher from Roto Rua. Tejuana.

56:30

No. Dylan. Yeah,

56:33

well you didn't heartless. It doesn't matter though. That's fine,

56:35

Dylan. Yeah, he's got it. All right, yeah,

56:37

but he's only had one guess. Oh, I didn't know that. Didn't listen to the rules.

56:40

Just repeat everything three times you do. When

56:43

I say something, do I have to wait for Johnny

56:45

to go? Yeah, yeah, I did. He's got a brain.

56:48

He's brain's like a little fish in

56:50

custard. See what I'm saying? Fish

56:52

in custard. Who did he say this to? If

56:55

you're tired, off. Off. I don't want

56:57

tired players here. Me.

57:00

Or Yardy. Both of

57:02

us. Or Yardy. Did he fade you?

57:04

Yeah. So we had to... You used

57:06

to have to do this thing, our wellness. So

57:08

you'd have to like score with how sore you, how tired you,

57:10

et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I said that to everyone I think.

57:12

Yeah, and basically I filled out my form. It was like one

57:14

of my first weeks doing it and I was like, do you

57:16

know what? I'm a bit tired and a bit sore today, so

57:18

I put maybe like two out of five. At

57:21

eight o'clock in the evening, get a message from Charlotte. You've been summoned. Go

57:23

and see Eddie in the power room in the morning. So I go and

57:25

see Eddie in the power room and he's like, oh, you're a bit sore

57:27

and a bit tired, are you, mate? I was like, oh yeah,

57:29

to be fair, it was a tough game at the weekend, mate. Yeah, for me and

57:31

a bit stiff and sore, he's like, I'm going

57:33

to make myself clear, mate. Tired and sore people don't

57:36

play for England. And I was like, oh yeah, I'm

57:38

understood. I'm understood. And

57:41

then he's funny, Eddie. On a Thursday, he'd be like,

57:43

boys, your wellness is brilliant. Yeah. You've

57:46

recovered fantastically and you're going to be hitting the track

57:48

running at the weekend. But obviously we've

57:50

all been told we're not allowed to score too. Yeah,

57:52

we're all five, Eddie. Both, as though from what we talked

57:55

about, I think he would want you to be honest, wouldn't he? Yeah.

57:59

Yeah. are falling off he wanted

58:01

to know. Okay he

58:03

chucked somebody a bag of

58:05

sweets Lenny. Yes

58:07

he guessed it say away. Ben Young's.

58:09

The quote was he chucked Ben

58:11

Young's a bag of sweets do you want them? Ben

58:14

Young said no and he said mate that's

58:16

a great start work with the S&C strength

58:18

conditioning staff move from weight and you'll be

58:20

playing. That's true. This

58:23

player wears number seven but he's a

58:25

six and a half at best. Chris

58:28

Robshaw. Well done. Right

58:32

they're like kamikaze kids those two they hit

58:34

everything that moves. Curry and under hill. Yes

58:37

Johnny. I

58:39

hope you've got long fingernails because you're only just clinging

58:41

on. James Huskall.

58:44

Yeah well done. I'm making sure that this

58:46

player was fit to the World Cup. We'll

58:48

look after him like he's the king's baby.

58:52

We'll look after him like he's the king's baby. No.

58:54

Player that was probably the enemy. No

58:57

you can't do another one. You can't do another

58:59

one. He doesn't get the rules. That's why I

59:01

fire him and don't climb into that. Oh you've

59:03

burnt the world. It's a

59:05

forward. Courtney Lewis. No. Oh

59:08

who is it then? Believe in the polar.

59:10

Oh yeah. Okay he's a tough rooster a

59:12

warrior he puts his body on the line. He didn't get a point for that. No

59:14

he doesn't get a point for that. No he does not get a point. He's not

59:16

a clue. I told him the answer. He's

59:18

a tough rooster a warrior. He puts his body on the

59:20

line. He doesn't play in a dinner suit. He's

59:23

a tough rooster a warrior. Bad? Yes.

59:27

Well done. That's it. That's it.

59:29

Well that was a great quiz. Johnny

59:31

Mae. 6-3. Johnny Mae. Round of applause.

59:35

Well done. I thought you weren't good at quizzes. Well

59:37

we got there. We've got there in the end. You

59:40

boys have obviously both been in the camp together.

59:42

We've talked about your important role. We've talked about

59:44

your views. Both of you kind of being introduced

59:46

to what experience like but what Johnny are your

59:48

lasting memories of Ellis when you played with him?

59:51

Yeah to play against Yat England and at Leicester

59:53

like this guy carries the ball. It's

59:57

insane but it's beautiful to watch. It gets me excited.

59:59

I want to be I want to take the field

1:00:01

with him And

1:00:03

then what a great bloke he is on and off the

1:00:05

pitch and and like he said he wouldn't want to say

1:00:07

it himself But he's a role model to all these young

1:00:09

little Bristolians, but do their voice. What do they say? Yeah,

1:00:12

right. Don't worry about it. Yeah You

1:00:15

know the number 33 office See

1:00:18

you didn't worry about that. He's he's that

1:00:20

he's there. I'm not in Shiman. I'm a

1:00:22

yeah What bloke the working-class hero you're bit

1:00:25

like Robin Hood Robin

1:00:28

the pit Robin the rich to pay the port except you

1:00:30

forgot to give the money to the port It's in escrow

1:00:32

at the moment in the gym. It's inside Yeah

1:00:37

What about your memories? With

1:00:39

John or just of England England. I mean at

1:00:41

the moment like we know you're sort

1:00:43

of post faz era You're

1:00:46

in the mix. You're leading. Are you loving

1:00:48

it? Is it fun? What kind

1:00:50

of environment you try to create? Yeah,

1:00:52

I'm loving it. I am I think I

1:00:54

think since a lot of my good friends I've

1:00:56

been lucky enough to play with some of the

1:00:59

best players to ever plan in English I think

1:01:01

something I've learned especially from John Courtney Ben Young's

1:01:04

the boys we've given up seeing

1:01:06

how much is taken out of them emotionally

1:01:08

whilst they're playing and then when they say

1:01:11

that done and they know they've left a shirt in a

1:01:13

better place they sort of Well,

1:01:16

not relief, but almost gratification. They're happy

1:01:18

that they've done it. So I Think

1:01:21

for me and Courtney said it's my room is it woke up

1:01:23

in? 23 every single time

1:01:25

you'd be like mate like just make the most of it make

1:01:27

the most of it because it does go a lot quickly you

1:01:29

think and that's a bloke who played over

1:01:32

a hundred times for his country and Was

1:01:34

one is one of the best players to ever play so

1:01:36

for him to say that it really hit home And

1:01:39

Johnny a slight difference myself.

1:01:41

He obviously stretched a lot. I've never stretched my

1:01:43

life So it

1:01:45

was a different sort of timetable But when I

1:01:47

would interact with John that we had some good

1:01:49

laughs and every time I'd ever go over the

1:01:51

top of something The game John would run up

1:01:54

jump into me and quack and scrum penalties as

1:01:56

well I just write a whack he'd run it

1:01:58

from the wing and jump into me and

1:02:00

quack. You can duck. I was like,

1:02:02

he's gonna quack something. Like that's the noise it made. When

1:02:04

he fits people down. Honestly, we're in the middle of a

1:02:06

test match in Australia. I went over the 13, I think

1:02:09

it was forever, or 12. And he

1:02:11

ran up to me and he went quack, and jumped

1:02:13

me and I fought. Jump every Scrum penalty when he's

1:02:15

like days, he's probably bloodshot. I'm running him from my

1:02:17

wing, boff, I boffed him on, but he loved it.

1:02:19

You boffed him and quacked. Maybe honest, he boffed him

1:02:21

and quacked. He stays in sideways a few meters. He

1:02:23

runs it, he's done all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which

1:02:25

I quite respect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. Just

1:02:28

as the blood's rushing back to you. Yeah, yeah,

1:02:30

yeah. Boffed and quacked. Yeah. Potential backs by the

1:02:32

way. Potential backs by the way. Potential put injury,

1:02:35

right. And that's what you feel like the markings,

1:02:37

they're boffed and quacked. I love, honestly, I love

1:02:40

front row. Like I love the relationship. It's a very

1:02:42

different world. I'm on the edge of the pitch. They're

1:02:44

in the tip of the- In the cold face. Yeah.

1:02:47

The tip of the spear in your hand. When they get a

1:02:49

Scrum penalty, I go ballistic. I remember I smacked J-Mile around the

1:02:51

face when he won as

1:02:53

a penalty away at South Africa. I love to get that clip

1:02:55

up. It's brilliant, but no. And how did he react

1:02:57

to that? Again, they actually can't really do much after

1:02:59

a Scrum. No. Because they're still coming back to our

1:03:02

realm. I don't know where they've gone. Yeah, the Scrum

1:03:04

realm is just full of sweat and gooch. You can

1:03:06

get a way of doing anything to them after a

1:03:08

Scrum. So you've noticed that you've noticed that

1:03:10

Danny and you've

1:03:25

been doing a lot of things. Yeah. I was

1:03:28

going to say that. I was going to definitely 100% say. Good luck

1:03:30

the rest of the season. I hope you go well. Johnny, good luck.

1:03:32

Yeah. European

1:03:34

trophy would be great, wouldn't it? Good luck to the cropstone. No.

1:03:38

It's a premiership for Bristol and a European trophy

1:03:40

for Gloucester. That would be quite good for the

1:03:42

Southwest. Points West would be- On

1:03:44

fire. On fire. And then you'd put fire- And

1:03:46

then you'd put fire- Point West. Yeah, I love

1:03:49

that. I love that. And

1:03:51

John will put fire- Don't go around there, eh? Cut the

1:03:53

fit birds. Don't park your nice car or tires will go. It's like

1:03:55

80 yards, mate. Sorry. Just don't let a

1:03:57

story get away- A story get away- A story get away- Jonny,

1:04:00

good luck with contact negotiation. Thank you. Will you come

1:04:02

back on the show again? Yeah, of course I am.

1:04:04

Ellis, will you come back? Maybe we can beam you

1:04:06

in from New Zealand. Fingers crossed you get there. You

1:04:08

fit? Yeah. Perfect. You might have seen the moving sort

1:04:11

of Ellis Joseph, a 26-year-old rugby player from Bristol. Ellis

1:04:13

went to A&E in February, thinking he had

1:04:15

a glandular fever, but was shocked to be

1:04:17

diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia, an aggressive form

1:04:19

of blood cancer. Ellis is still in need

1:04:22

of a stem cell transplant and needs a

1:04:24

stem cell donor. You know a little bit

1:04:26

about this story, Ellis, don't you? Yeah. It's

1:04:29

weird. He's at my boyhood club. He's also mixed

1:04:31

races. His name is Ellis. He plays in the front

1:04:33

row. So we had a lot of common. But

1:04:36

yeah, unfortunately, he's ill. He's

1:04:38

looking for donors between the ages. I think

1:04:40

he's between age 26 and

1:04:43

30 for

1:04:45

a stem cell donor. So yeah,

1:04:47

he's in a bad spot at the moment. And

1:04:49

the club's really got behind him. Old Reds have

1:04:51

been absolutely brilliant. And Bristol rugby as well have

1:04:53

been classed. Got the whole city behind it. Everyone

1:04:56

putting up on socials. And yeah,

1:04:58

God bless him. Hopefully we can find a

1:05:00

donor soon. So it said, Ellis's family

1:05:02

and friends have started the campaign. Hashtag

1:05:05

try4ellis to encourage the rugby

1:05:07

community to get on board and sign up

1:05:09

to the stem cell register, giving everyone with

1:05:11

blood cancer or blood disorder the same chance

1:05:13

to find a life-saving match. Anthony Nolan really

1:05:16

needs more young men to squad

1:05:18

up. Sign up

1:05:20

and potentially save

1:05:23

lives by joining

1:05:25

the register at

1:05:28

www.anthenolan.org/try4ellis. That's www.anthenlonolan.org

1:05:31

forward slash try4ellis. And finally, lads,

1:05:33

before we say goodbye, well done

1:05:35

to my old club, Maidenhead, whose

1:05:38

under 13s won both the

1:05:40

Cup and the Shield of the

1:05:42

Berkshire County, which is unbelievable. Maiden

1:05:45

has actually adopted Will Greenwood as their number

1:05:47

one player, even though he never played there, never went there.

1:05:50

But I'm the real person. So just what are you going

1:05:52

to do about that? What am I going to do? And

1:05:54

Will Greenwood over in the car park. What

1:05:56

he's not looking. Yeah, good. I'm

1:05:58

going to attack him and just. fill him in. Turn him

1:06:00

upside down and shake him and see what comes out. No,

1:06:02

I wouldn't do that. Will Grim is a lovely man, fantastic

1:06:05

player, much nicer and more personal than I am and

1:06:07

he bloody loves Maid Head. I love Maid Head but he loves it

1:06:09

more apparently according to

1:06:11

Maid Head. Will, watch your back.

1:06:13

Anyway, we've been good about it roughly with

1:06:15

our friends at Consortletile Tires. Stats and facts

1:06:18

provided by Oval Insights. We're a folding pocket

1:06:20

production and this episode was produced by Tom

1:06:22

Edwards. Please share, please subscribe. Bye Black Eye

1:06:24

Gin. We love you. That's... Cheers. Cheers. Thank

1:06:26

you. You've

1:06:30

been listening to The Good, Yay, The

1:06:33

Bad, Urgh, and The Rugby.

1:06:35

Ooh! With Alex Payne,

1:06:37

James Haskell and Mike Tyndall. Thanks

1:06:40

for listening. We

1:06:49

didn't laugh at you when you said you wanted to be a DJ.

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