0:06

into the final moments Alex Payne trying

0:08

to keep this side going forward Haskell

0:11

takes it on now it's just relentless

0:13

chat largely about himself and there's Tyndall

0:15

to add the finishing touch of glamour

0:17

and World Cup winning stories and a

0:20

slightly sideways nose that is how you

0:22

podcast a dominant display by the good

0:24

the bad and the rugby the

0:29

Six Nations really came alive this weekend but

0:31

Weighingham played I mean if they played like

0:33

that every time and lost I wouldn't care

0:35

maybe we were realising actually that you get

0:37

rewarded for playing you get a reward for

0:39

keeping your ball in hand can England handle

0:41

France up front but the pack weighs almost

0:43

a tonne yeah

0:46

you see George Martin against the Mani Miafou all

0:48

these smokes they're gonna kill each other hello

0:53

Dream Team welcome along to this week's episode of the good

0:55

the bad and the rugby in partnership with our very

0:57

good friends at Continental tyres what a

0:59

weekend my god the Six Nations we scream

1:01

and we shout we laugh and we love and

1:03

we moan and we grumble and gripe but do

1:06

not go changing how much

1:08

did we enjoy everything

1:10

that round four for us it was delightful do you know what

1:12

I had quite a few friends Kate I know shocking that I've

1:14

got any friends but quite a few more

1:16

colleagues come to the game you paid

1:18

all of them to be there and

1:21

I honestly truthfully was

1:23

joking and quipping before Hamlin was working in the

1:26

hospitality with people asking what's gonna happen I was like I know

1:29

they're gonna be something quite convincingly so

1:32

it goes to show what I know which is absolutely

1:34

nothing but everyone knows that anyway I don't you were

1:36

alone in that yes I did I just I not

1:38

that I don't I doubted that England have the ability

1:40

that's never the question I think it was the translation

1:43

from obviously how hard they would have been training and

1:45

the game plan they would have had onto the field

1:47

and so it was just a magical day I think

1:49

we were very close towards the end

1:51

of throwing it away actually and they were kind

1:53

of moments give and take but weighing them played

1:55

I mean if they played like that every time

1:57

and lost I wouldn't care because I think it

1:59

can captured the imagination

2:01

of the crowd. They were singing, which

2:04

is a rarity. I haven't heard them sing like

2:06

that for ages at Twickenham and 60 Minutes they

2:08

were in Fine Boys. I think it

2:10

was a fantastic game. I absolutely enjoyed

2:12

it. And do you know what? The atmosphere, the

2:14

interview we did post-match with Tommy

2:16

Freeman. Jordan Martin and Leo Dam. They got a standing

2:18

ovation as they walked in and we've done a lot

2:20

of those without that. I think we've got to be

2:22

realistic but that's the beauty of sport. We sat there

2:24

before the game and one caveat we said to all

2:26

of this was form going into

2:29

a game is almost irrelevant because you never

2:31

know what's going to happen. That's why we're so addicted to sport.

2:33

That's why we love it because there is always a

2:35

chance. And I think the way they

2:37

equipped the sale was amazing. So I had a very, very

2:39

good day and I honestly laid on an

2:41

amazing experience with my friends because England won. So I'm

2:43

now flavour of the month. Yeah. We'll come back to

2:45

that. Welcome Ben, welcome Tims. We should say hello. Hello.

2:47

Do you want to dive in? No,

2:49

I thought it was, you know, the biggest

2:52

question that we said on

2:54

the shows previously after Scotland,

2:56

I think we defended

2:58

England way more than anyone else did in terms

3:00

of their intent and how they went to play.

3:02

And the biggest question about going into this Ireland

3:05

game was A, was he going

3:07

to stick with that team? Obviously there were

3:09

a couple of changes but consistency mainly throughout.

3:12

And then was he going to allow them to play an

3:16

attacking brand and go after them? And I think

3:19

Ollie Lauren, his

3:21

try from when Freeman gets the ball and

3:23

just goes for it into midfield

3:25

and then creates the space because he's absolutely gunned

3:27

it. He's not thought about it. He goes, that's

3:29

what I'm doing. And they had great

3:31

hands on there. Just pick it off. You're like, okay. And

3:34

then, so it's a big shout out to boaters

3:36

here because he's, I know, you

3:38

know, his post match was very boaters and

3:40

very straight down the line and in no

3:42

way smug because that's not the guy he

3:45

is. He's just a complete professional in

3:47

terms of everything he does. He doesn't change whether he

3:49

wins or whether he loses. People

3:52

have talked about whether he's got the ability to

3:55

change, whether it's all stat based, whether it's everything

3:57

else. You

4:00

I would say is his first actual

4:02

his squad. Where is North inheritance of

4:04

the every year risky into a woke

4:06

up and and. I think

4:09

about how I didn't enjoy the first

4:11

two games. Who's talked about that in

4:13

terms of intend to their we would

4:15

play but the last two games hopefully

4:17

we take less. Than.

4:19

The other opposition said both of those

4:21

cases, and if Scotland. She

4:24

said we see the one who threw that way but we

4:26

got right. We're about the stuff. Of

4:28

do you think you were all very of

4:31

excited and it's been a long time coming

4:33

fab between drink so as far as england

4:35

from a pleasant and fans are concerned for

4:37

way neutrals perspective. Would you

4:39

make a second? I thought their the Six Nations

4:42

came alive and a thing is brilliant for all

4:44

and the amount of times I heard you not

4:46

Mon Bucky, be frustrated by the lack of

4:48

atmosphere took him and as he was a fortress

4:50

of of international rugby and you heard the

4:52

Raw, you heard the support Of course they replicate.

4:55

You know what's been done on the pitch

4:57

so it is. It goes both ways. but man

4:59

they they really serve that seen on on the

5:01

silver platter and I think that's what everybody

5:03

loves to do. And if you're a neutral you

5:05

just once those incredible fortunes of international rugby

5:07

to be there to be totally. And I've no

5:10

be like to see an Olympic stadium in Rome

5:12

half empty nice and you know I adore game.

5:14

it was Rams fact it was you know bones

5:16

or a cassette are leading the way and then

5:18

you don't know where they can do at also

5:20

of course because is not France but if I

5:23

had an island new one that he would have

5:25

been you know or walk over to win The

5:27

Six nations are they can make the grand slam

5:29

are not now everything's back on the table for

5:31

that final. Add to the Super Saturday in a

5:33

so everybody one so as neuter I was delighted.

5:35

I was happy I was proud of my Six

5:38

Nations because a message expectations. Of of how

5:40

much I love this competition and

5:42

irrespectively of who won and lost

5:44

assault the boys. All. Of

5:46

them gave it all for do some

5:49

really quality rugby in. The sounds just

5:51

replicated. It's only say everything's back to

5:53

the Table Island. Have got the city

5:55

and Nine Sunshine Sunshine's. But

5:58

it would be of of a. My best my

6:01

best habitation as of how we

6:03

are we win Having to pursue

6:05

and destroy face is that they

6:07

so when by four points. A

6:10

by scoring so points but they then have

6:12

to score eighty four points. Imagine how me

6:14

drop goals that his associates his abs hydrant

6:17

for take it as a Dvd productive at

6:19

that's what I use when it was sweaty

6:21

jungles and then three tries to just about

6:23

the best dogs who say or what why.

6:26

The thing I'm most fascinated by this is

6:28

the situation of his lack of the former

6:30

site doesn't just happen and it's weird because

6:33

when fans and and and and media and

6:35

stuff like that entitles about it. We were

6:37

in hyperbolic terms. they would be working in

6:39

training. To play like that for a long

6:41

period of time and tinseth points while both

6:44

as hot as as or the squad months

6:46

I think when people give you the respect

6:48

and they krishna everything in a very negative

6:50

is assumption that he's coaching them in a

6:52

certain and away and plays for instance played

6:54

a boring ways I think they will. They

6:56

be trying to play law that for a

6:59

while but I see what was missing from

7:01

the game was present for the rock speed

7:03

and aggression round the rocks. your thoughts or

7:05

small thing was unbelievable all day I thought

7:07

I had actually machine geek we you can

7:09

com intimate. What Waco Threats That suddenly means

7:11

that we will rock speak from down from

7:14

five seconds of times down to two seconds

7:16

space of an earpiece when you got guys

7:18

in the backfield. Not kicking and

7:20

money about like Tommy Freeman did not make

7:22

semester different When you got guys confidence offload

7:24

and because he knows his we're going into

7:26

heavy traffic trying to offload lists. Sonny Bill

7:29

Williams when his other guys are difficult doesn't

7:31

come naturally. telling his place when I'm Sam

7:33

on those in an outside Samoas. he knows

7:35

what spaces that someone outside on a guy

7:37

rather than have a conference because the chance

7:39

of a second my getting into say in

7:41

offered aren't that it suddenly discovered merits ability

7:43

to turn and create a pop cause he

7:45

knows his in space oddity things a bit

7:47

more times. the but where does he becomes.

7:50

come to fruition and i think it's very

7:52

important to remember actually give credit this that

7:54

was on so quite quite a while but

7:56

the the the nuts and bolts again officer

7:58

or kicked chase physicality in defence, physicality

8:01

in ruck, intention in the

8:03

carry, fight in the carry, being in

8:05

motion, all of that was poles

8:07

apart and suddenly everyone goes wow what an amazing game

8:09

plan. I think there's a lot of players that suddenly

8:11

stood up and would drive a lot of confidence for

8:13

that. I thought you know I said Tommy Freeman, Alex

8:16

Mitchell at nine, looked very comfortable there. Ben Earl. Ben

8:18

Earl, like talismanic performance.

8:20

But again when he was

8:22

under Eddie maybe it wasn't necessarily the right time,

8:24

maybe you couldn't put the consistency. He now looks

8:26

like a very established back row player.

8:28

People were picking up the Lions team, you'd probably

8:31

put him in. Because we are talking detail around

8:33

the England pace, let's stick in our

8:35

high flyer of the week segment which is obviously brought to you by our

8:37

very good friends at British Airways. We always ask

8:39

you now the fans to pick your British Airways high

8:41

flyer of the week via our Instagram. The shortlist was

8:44

made up of Ben Earl, George

8:46

Martin and Ollie Lawrence. Ben

8:48

Earl obviously everywhere. Martin as you said hit absolutely

8:50

everything all day long and Ollie Lawrence with

8:53

a try 100% success rate and 13 tackles

8:56

in that area. For you? I

8:58

think it's got to be Ben Earl, you know I actually

9:00

thought if Ben Earl hadn't obviously had such an amazing

9:03

performance with Ball in Hand, I thought George

9:05

Martin could have won it because...

9:08

He had just sheer brushed up post match. Yeah, I mean

9:10

we interviewed him in that live room and I like all

9:12

the other boys that sort of sipping mineral water and he

9:14

was like yeah I'll have a kiss. But he's just, I

9:16

don't really know him that well but he's just got a

9:19

real warmth. I see his relationship with Ellis as well is

9:22

really close and actually what was just as a

9:24

side, it was interesting that when we came in

9:26

every single one mentioned what impact Ellis had had

9:29

behind the scenes. One himself, the

9:31

way he was talking the warm up, the way he spoke on

9:33

the field, the way he was kind of screaming

9:35

in the change of pregame. We

9:39

know about it but I think what he's doing in

9:41

that England squad, I think he's probably the most valuable

9:43

player in that squad in terms of emotional motivation and

9:45

setting things up but I'd say Ben Earl for me.

9:47

You would put your chips behind? Personally,

9:50

Ben Earl by a mile I think but

9:52

it's also for the consistency at

9:54

which he's been doing this forever and when

9:56

everybody clicks behind you know or has talked

9:59

about confidence. It also comes by knowing

10:01

that this guy who's going to take the ball and

10:03

relentlessly go back at it and give you some meters.

10:05

So I thought he was extremely impressive to be fair.

10:08

I mean, Ben Earl's been my boy for

10:11

a little while now and we did

10:13

it again. You'll be very surprised to hear that Ben

10:15

Earl was the high floor of the week. Unsurprising,

10:17

he was man of the match as well. And just

10:19

a reminder, British Airways are connecting people to over 190

10:22

destinations across the world

10:24

to feel inspired for your next adventure. Head

10:26

over to ba.com. Are

10:29

England fans getting too overexcited here? Or

10:31

when you look at that performance, coupled with

10:33

the momentum that potentially is picking up speed,

10:35

is this the sort of win that sends

10:37

a new team on its way? Oh,

10:39

Vera, we shall see. Next

10:42

Saturday in the Old Beauty Fair. Are you sitting

10:44

here laughing at England fans? No, no, look, I

10:47

agree with everything that's been said and I think

10:49

it's been a long time coming. What

10:51

I generally enjoy is that when

10:54

things get a little bit unexplainable, weak

10:56

teams with weak leaders tend to hide behind the

10:58

coach. The only person that

11:00

you hear is the coach. What did

11:02

you hear of Steve Bofferg this week? Absolutely nothing.

11:05

After the game, absolutely nothing. And you're talking about,

11:07

you know, Alice Gensh influence, you're talking about George

11:09

Martin and how he stood up, you're talking about

11:11

Ben Earl, I think who had some really strong

11:13

words about how much he cared about Danny Kerev's

11:15

hundreds and unfortunately what happened to Jamie George's mum

11:17

and you know, all those things. And I think

11:19

that's players stepping up. So I'm not saying you

11:21

only need to be in front of a mic

11:23

to win games, but it does count. I think

11:25

it counts in the attitude and what they're ready

11:27

to deliver. So it's been a long time coming

11:29

and they really wanted to snatch that one and

11:31

savour it altogether. Now I'm not saying this in

11:33

a threatening way, but yes, they will have to

11:36

back it up Saturday night in France. We'll have

11:38

everything to lose a lot more than them so

11:40

that you will see whether they back it up. But

11:43

I think you should get excited. That's what I'm trying

11:45

to say. You should get behind your teaming and be

11:47

overwhelmed by the happiness of what happened on Saturday. So

11:50

that next time the, you know, the England steps

11:52

up to a Twitter, you have people roaring and

11:54

ready to go again and it might work or

11:56

not, but at least you're going to give it your absolute best. I want

11:58

to bring in our continental tires. of the week from Nicknak99

12:00

who says, England

12:02

have come so far in four games, it begs

12:05

the question, why did they not play like this

12:07

at the Rugby World Cup and what would have

12:09

happened if they had? Why

12:12

are you calm? But what, but what, but you know,

12:15

you can't think about that. You can't think about

12:17

that. You were teaching your head because. I don't

12:19

think you play the same way. I think England

12:21

got to the World Cup with confidence zero and

12:23

the idea was not looking like fools and they

12:25

just should not, they didn't want to lose. So

12:28

you play a restrictive game, they just want to get to

12:30

the quarters, let's face it. There was the idea, it was

12:32

like, let's not be the idiots not to get knocked out

12:34

before, get to the quarters and then a whole different competition

12:36

arrives. You talk about, for me one of

12:38

the instrumental changes is Freeman. He's a

12:40

unit, he plays ball in hand and

12:42

he delivers what Borussia saw with him

12:44

at Saints and he's delivering on the international stage.

12:46

Had he been picked for England in the World

12:48

Cup? I don't know if he would do the

12:51

same thing. Irrespective whether he got the ball or

12:53

not, there's a tremendous amount of pressure that's added

12:55

to that. I don't think in a World Cup you don't

12:57

build, you deliver. In

13:00

six nations, don't get me wrong, the stakes are really high,

13:02

you always want to win, et cetera, et cetera. But it's

13:04

okay to say we are building a new team. And

13:07

also it takes players on the field to make

13:09

decisions. I thought Furbank, I thought

13:11

he's fantastic for Northampton, he's a great

13:13

bloke. A couple of times I've seen him

13:15

play for England, I didn't think, I didn't necessarily know whether he was going

13:17

to be the answer. I thought he

13:20

played brilliant on the weekend. I think he added

13:22

another tacky dimension. We love Freddie Schudin, I think

13:24

he's equally a great player. I think unfortunately, they're

13:26

different players and different tools for different

13:29

jobs. But I thought he was a really

13:31

nice introduction to the side. Now would

13:33

you have done that in a World Cup? Would you want

13:35

someone who has the ability to play but has a bit

13:37

of looseness about him playing the World Cup?

13:39

No, because that's how you don't get out of all

13:41

stages. And that's the final against Africa, you definitely wanted

13:43

Freddie Stewart. Yeah, so you can't compare. You've

13:46

answered it very well indeed. That was our Continental Tyres

13:48

question of the week. And Nick Nack's been well

13:50

and truly served and homeward to think again. Couple

13:53

of other bits and bobs, can we give a

13:55

nod to not only Danny Kess 100th, but

13:58

also one of the most wholesome players? Did you

14:00

see the post-match afterwards where he had the entire family,

14:02

every single one of them on a microphone? I think

14:05

you were at the bar getting against

14:07

him. I think so. Just

14:09

a nod on the century. I

14:11

mean, I messaged him straight

14:13

after the game. He's not

14:16

had what you'd say the

14:18

smoothest run to the 100. He's had

14:22

falling out, he's come back in, he's come back

14:24

out, but yet he's just

14:26

classed. I think a lot

14:28

of that comes down to who he is as a

14:30

person. He's just an incredibly relaxed

14:33

man who's good to be around,

14:35

good fun. He's tied over that

14:37

really, the professional era

14:39

as it is now, but with

14:42

a personality, enjoys having fun and

14:44

makes himself really accessible

14:47

to people. That's

14:50

why so many people like him and he's still

14:52

electric. Well

14:55

done to him because I do love him. I very

14:58

dearly believe he's still one of those last few

15:00

that are remaining there that I was still playing

15:03

and he's just a great human being and he

15:05

really deserved it. Can we talk about the Twickenham

15:07

fact as well? I'd be interested in your

15:10

view on this. There's been so much

15:12

noise around the team connecting with

15:14

the fans and the longer walk-in and the open

15:16

training sessions and the selfie sessions and more

15:19

social media followers and all that sort of thing. What

15:22

Saturday seemed to show was that get on the

15:24

pitch and batter a team in front of you

15:26

and all of that takes care

15:28

of itself. Is that sort of the truth that's

15:30

fallen out of this game? Well look,

15:32

I don't think that people don't go blindfolded

15:35

to watch a rugby game, man. They

15:38

like and they react to what they see. Now

15:40

however, everything that you said I think is useful.

15:42

You've got to see guys stepping

15:44

up in front of mice, you've got to see them

15:46

in real life, you've got to connect with the fans.

15:48

That's more like long term, short term. You want to

15:50

solve this? I still remember, I

15:52

don't want to rub it in, but when we

15:54

dominated England two seasons

15:57

ago, a 72nd minute, there's not a

15:59

sound. the stadium like it were

16:01

you would hear you know flies a

16:03

fly it was last year he was

16:05

the record home to games 12 months ago amazing how

16:08

so it's how long a year can people react to what

16:10

they see but then in the long term in long run

16:12

you you want to feed that connection with the fans about

16:14

everything that you just said I think we

16:17

have to owe a thank you to certain

16:19

Irish players whether it be Jamie he's lit

16:21

whether it be Peter Stringer you know an

16:24

English fan still gets fucked off when they

16:26

hear the team's not gonna win and they're gonna get smashed and

16:28

they're gonna get lose by 50 or they can

16:30

only win when there's 13 men on the field and

16:33

I think when I was watching it

16:35

with Rob Henson former

16:37

Island Center and we were

16:40

out there for the anthems and England's had the anthem

16:42

and he just turned around ooh

16:45

that was louder than I thought it was gonna be makes

16:47

me a bit nervous and then

16:49

the players responded in the best way

16:51

is to blast

16:54

out of the doors and

16:56

then suddenly your crowns in it yeah and there

16:59

was never yes I know Island sort of pulled

17:01

back but it wasn't for long enough to dampen

17:04

hearts immediately we'd come back and then

17:06

so then the fight was on yeah and the

17:09

boy the boys stuck with it and got what

17:11

they deserved I also think we

17:14

should we encourage sports

17:17

people and especially we're helping to have personalities

17:19

I've got no problem with Ryan O'Gara Jamie he's

17:22

little Peter Stringer saying any of that it's so

17:24

good for the game and everyone you

17:26

know and the problem is when

17:28

people say things like I put the head above the parapet and set

17:31

a stall out and say things we

17:33

now chastise them I'd say lads who

17:35

give a shit like you put yourself

17:37

out that you had an opinion it

17:39

didn't pay off on this particular occasion keep doing

17:41

more of it you know because every every time

17:44

there's a fight MMA or boxing they trash talk

17:46

if they get filled in you

17:48

know sorry got filled in like that's

17:50

it so I think we've got to make sure as

17:52

a sport because everyone's so adamant what you thinking now

17:54

Joe he's it with you now Peter Strick it's like

17:57

you've got to take it both ways put any out

17:59

there say I think we need more of that. Like

18:01

I honestly, if you'd asked me, I'd walk around and I

18:03

went we get a fucking pump. What are you talking about?

18:05

I got hated by Ireland for years and now I get

18:07

hate by South Africa. It's

18:09

amazing if you just put the drawbridge up there, man. I'm 5 and

18:11

a half years old, not so good when I'm in there like that.

18:14

Never works when you're coming round now.

18:16

I'll find a way. But

18:19

no, I just think that's great for the sport. I

18:21

love it. I'd bit more trash talk and a bit

18:23

more hype. A book will put you balls on the

18:25

line and then if you get snipped off, that's what

18:27

happens, you know? Fuck around, find out. Jina, I think

18:29

that feeds into something and I'd be very interested in

18:31

your perspective on this band, given that you were in

18:33

the studio. When you look at The Weeknd as a

18:35

whole, one of the reasons

18:37

I think it was sort of really

18:39

enjoyable is it felt like there were three

18:42

directives. One is the TMO to use his

18:44

microphone far less. He didn't really get involved

18:46

in any of the games. We had no

18:48

red cards, we had no lengthy stoppages. Two

18:50

was the referees really getting their foot on

18:52

the accelerator. It was a very interesting line from Luke Pearce in

18:55

the Wales, France game, which I'm sure you heard, where one of

18:57

the scrums went down. He said, guys, I want a really quick

18:59

reset. Get on with it. No mucking around. The

19:01

third one was television coverage. I thought

19:04

there was a little bit less sensationalism.

19:06

They didn't go looking. Everyone

19:08

would have now seen the Ellis type furlong

19:10

incident on social media, but it just felt like

19:12

the TV coverage pulled back ever so slightly and

19:15

it just felt like everything went faster. Everything

19:17

was about letting the players get on with it and

19:21

let's just enjoy what we got on the pitch rather than trying to

19:23

make more of it. Did you get any sense of that in

19:25

the coverage that you were part of? I agree with the

19:28

conclusion. I disagree. It's not

19:30

thanks to the ref that the

19:32

boys went fastest because the boys wanted to go faster.

19:34

I think everybody got in with a lot of intent.

19:36

I think all teams, for some reason,

19:38

you know, stars aligned because it's a study olympico and

19:40

it's full and they had a bit of taste of

19:42

blood drawing against France and they felt that they

19:45

could have done a little bit better and then they

19:47

see Scotland coming up. It's our day.

19:49

I think England have been bubbling up

19:51

for a while and we wait until

19:53

we get this final performance. Everybody aligning

19:55

together and following Ben Earl with a

19:57

little extra spice adding during the week.

20:00

I mean you want to use those quotes and stuff

20:02

like, now let's front up, we've got a challenge

20:04

ahead of us. First minutes, you know, if you hear

20:06

the crowd responding to this, maybe even they heard the

20:08

anthems too. You know, you don't know how the

20:10

players will react to it. And so, and then the

20:13

ref played the role and everybody was into it. So

20:15

I really do think it was down to the intent.

20:18

So how much people wanted to be there, wanted to make

20:20

it special, and how much the players really wanted to go

20:22

in fast and quick and probably realizing

20:25

after the last World Cup where it was

20:27

about give the ball away, smash people in

20:29

the rocks and contest the ball in

20:31

the air. Maybe we're realizing actually, maybe due

20:33

to also how the refereeing decisions are going,

20:36

that you get rewarded for playing. You get

20:38

rewarded for keeping the ball in hand. And

20:41

that's where maybe if you took all the

20:43

teams four rounds to realize it, but that's

20:46

how France got out on

20:48

top of the game too. I do think as well, we

20:51

might come onto it, but just with Ireland, because

20:55

there's never any rationale when I sport.

20:57

You're either, especially in England, rather in

20:59

the toilet or world beaters.

21:01

I think, unless you get to the point

21:03

where you have such a consistent winning record and

21:05

you're putting teams away with a ruthless performance.

21:09

England played so much better than it played amazing

21:11

well, but it was down to fine margins.

21:13

Again, if there's a cup, if Ireland's backed up,

21:15

a couple of positives and hadn't compounded errors,

21:17

because that's all it would have been. Like,

21:20

you know, not kicking out and getting

21:22

a ball, or getting a penalty away, injuries,

21:24

Peter O'Mara getting yellow card, you know what

21:26

I mean? All those bits and pieces on

21:28

another day, they are sort of intangibles. It

21:30

wasn't, we didn't put away the best side

21:32

of the world. Ireland are still unbelievable. Having

21:34

said that, we've always had a bit of

21:36

a man crush on Andy Farrell on this

21:38

pod. He was

21:41

so classy post-match. And what

21:43

was really interesting about it is he, absolute

21:45

cute-ass swing that they deserve to win. He smiled, he

21:47

said, we'll be up for it next time. He just

21:49

owned the narrative. But I thought he, in

21:52

some ways, he just let the game,

21:54

it was all part of what we're talking about. He just let

21:56

the game stand for what it was. There were no complaints, there

21:58

was no blaming the ref, there was no blaming players. players, he

22:00

just says what a test match, well done England, we'll

22:02

be ready for next weekend. I thought that was really

22:04

really really impressive, I don't know whether you... Look,

22:07

considering how class he was, losing

22:10

in the quarterfinals of the World

22:12

Cup and complimenting the All Blacks

22:14

and taking on the chin after

22:16

a hugely disappointing day for them,

22:18

giving his personal history with

22:20

England, I'm absolutely not surprised. But look, you've

22:22

got to live up to that reputation, you've

22:24

got to live up in those tough moments

22:27

and I genuinely think a lot of the

22:29

successes of the last four

22:31

years of Ireland are down to who he

22:33

is as a person and the culture that

22:35

he's put together and he's just delivered it

22:37

one more time. Do you think as well,

22:40

Andy is just amazing, legend of a coach

22:42

and as a person, but again when you

22:44

watch a performance like that back, you almost

22:46

want your team to be awful and see really

22:48

glaring errors, that was very fine

22:51

margin, that was Al Pacino getting into

22:53

a game of inches, sometimes

22:55

you win, sometimes you lose, what do you turn around

22:57

and say, unless obviously there's been a red card or

22:59

some sort of contentious decision, on

23:01

this particular day it didn't go well, I

23:03

think him setting the stand, I think it's important and I think actually

23:06

I love the fact that him and Storff had a row

23:08

because that's... Borthas when he played... I think it was a

23:10

discussion, I don't even know... No, I know, five, five, but

23:13

whatever. Again, they both just handled it brilliantly. Yeah, it's fine,

23:15

but whatever it was, but I like that because Borthas when

23:17

he played was an

23:19

absolute trash talking nightmare, which is so out

23:21

of character for this guy, but I think

23:23

often you, I saw Owen Slott wrote a

23:25

really nice interesting article about Borthwick is

23:28

like Andy Falwell, but without the big

23:30

speech in the bravado in the Northern accent, I

23:34

think you want... It's got the Northern accent. No,

23:37

it's not the Preston accent. Preston, is that a Preston accent? Anything

23:39

outside the interface, it's awful. I think truthfully... I look forward to

23:41

getting Steve on the show. I

23:51

think you don't always have to

23:53

be front of the house and

23:55

I think it worked very well and I think it goes to show

23:57

that you can coach in two different styles. And

24:00

if I can't be, you know, I think it'll

24:02

be frustrated, but it's almost more difficult in those

24:04

moments because the game wasn't... There

24:06

wasn't massive glaring errors, I don't think. Two

24:10

more on Twickenham and then we'll move on. And this is

24:12

not at the expense of Ireland, but I reckon there are

24:14

one or two England fans. When you

24:16

say 99, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2013, 2017, 2020, when England had so much to play for and

24:27

have been laughed at for many, many years about the thing they

24:29

couldn't do it. Not at the expense

24:31

of Ireland, but quite nice for England fans to

24:33

be able to celebrate popping someone else's balloon. Yeah,

24:36

but it's almost as good. Ireland

24:38

would masterclass of it. They've done

24:40

it so many times. It always

24:43

works. When someone writes you off, it's always

24:45

like... You know, putting a party pooper on

24:48

someone, we rarely do it. We're normally getting our

24:50

pants pulled down. I don't think it makes the

24:52

game any sweeter, but it's nice to add a

24:54

little bit of advice to it. Because you're a

24:56

die-hard rugby fan, that was the first thing you

24:58

said. You loved that, though, because you've got all

25:00

the past emotions. I've had the trauma of it.

25:02

You've had so many times. The trauma. I don't

25:04

think like that. But again, it just adds that

25:06

richness, but I think for fans, you

25:08

then go, does that make next time you play the richer

25:10

and more and narrower and more fun? Yeah, of course. Do

25:12

you know what I mean? The other

25:14

thing I just quickly wanted to touch on, and this may again

25:16

just be me going off on a tangent, but

25:19

winning it with a last-minute drop goal, the last

25:21

play drop goal, it's sort of

25:23

like football. Because in football, you celebrate once,

25:25

twice, maybe three times a game. And so

25:27

the rush of that celebration is so

25:30

much greater. Whereas in rugby,

25:32

you will celebrate 10, 15, 20, 30 schools. I

25:35

just say it because my

25:37

son watched it with most... They were as

25:39

animated off the back of that as I think

25:41

I've ever seen watching rugby. And it just sort of made me

25:44

think that that dopamine hit takes you up, which is why

25:46

I think for now, 0-3 will live so long in a memory, is

25:49

it was that last-minute goal to win it,

25:52

which I think takes you to a high level.

25:54

But also it's when it's in the flow of

25:56

the game. Yes. Because unless you're

25:58

an aficionado, it gets hit. He's going, step

26:00

back, drop, step back. And obviously, people

26:03

see drop goals as way harder as

26:06

putting it on the tee and knocking it over to the end of the game. Because

26:09

it's pretty much of a close skill and you've got

26:11

time to do it and you can line it up.

26:13

But also, if you tell anyone else in the controls,

26:15

yeah, Marcus Smith, it would definitely be going, I wish

26:17

I hadn't fallen over back this way. I

26:19

did think that. He's going to wish and spell it

26:22

out. Willko will slap him in the face. Fucking

26:25

told you, don't do that. Don't

26:27

do that. Yeah, you follow through.

26:30

Don't let them back. But

26:33

yeah, because everyone knows that we'd have had

26:35

the penalty and he would have been able to,

26:37

well, should have knocked it over in

26:39

the old-fashioned way. But it's far better

26:41

that way. Did you get it coming? Because the weird thing was,

26:44

I was so fixated on Tyburn over the

26:46

ball, going, oh my god, he's still going there. Everyone

26:48

was like shouting, let go, let go. He's

26:50

an unbelievable player, but in that heat of the

26:52

moment. And then I saw that Joe Marla was in

26:54

the way. I was like, oh my god, what am I? And

26:56

then something went out the back and kicked it. From

26:58

my mind, I was like, why are they not milking the penalty? That's

27:01

all we need. I didn't even think about it. Did you see it

27:03

coming? Did you think that was an option? I just didn't even occur

27:05

to me. I think I was actually

27:07

celebrating at the time that they got the penalty. So

27:09

I knew I'd won it. Yeah, that's what I

27:11

mean. I thought it was more of a shock.

27:13

I was like, oh, Christ. I wasn't even thinking

27:16

about it. But as you say, I think it

27:18

is a better way of finishing because it gets

27:20

it done in real time without having to phrase

27:22

no one's got to think about it. I did

27:24

think off the back of it, you don't get

27:27

many chances to practice your drop goal celebrations. But

27:29

it definitely wasn't the share of finger or even

27:31

share of kicking the camera. There was a definite

27:33

throw of the hair back. There

27:37

were some slightly lost individuals. Always

27:39

lifting his jazz hands at the end of the year. I

27:43

think as if I never kicked it off well, obviously. But

27:45

when I scored, I really clapped moments. I just forget to

27:47

celebrate. And my dad was like, you didn't celebrate. I'd just

27:49

be like, so into it. You're just walking back next job.

27:52

I should have had that. Big fist bumps,

27:55

high five. People tripping over themselves, running up,

27:57

hugging random people. Did enjoy.

28:00

we took one to the plums did you

28:02

see that? I don't know. Then someone booted

28:04

it so low it went straight into his

28:06

lower gut and he just immediately took an

28:08

E. When was this? In the game.

28:11

Yeah. All the people

28:13

who liked this, I've written down the bloke. All the

28:15

people who liked this, I've written down the bloke. All

28:17

the people who got a penalty and they just went

28:20

to boot it down the field and they just drilled

28:22

it straight into his gut. It

28:24

was a special day. We'll put it on socials. It will

28:26

live long in the memory that one. It will be fascinating

28:28

to see where we're going to go from here.

28:30

Shall we move on to Rome? First sellout in eight

28:32

years. First home

28:34

win in ten and Luigi

28:36

Leiner won for the try. He

28:39

should retire. Unbelievable. Stop it there. Don't

28:42

even try to do better. Write

28:45

a book about it and done. My Journey

28:47

to Italy. The one week turnaround.

28:52

As far as Italy are concerned, and again this

28:54

is a question that's been asked many times over,

28:56

but when you look at what's happening

28:58

in the 120s where they're beginning to take chunks out

29:00

of teams, and you should have been France, you'll admit

29:03

that. Does it feel... Been in,

29:05

okay. Now, in years gone by when Italy

29:07

won, it normally felt

29:09

like the other team had absolutely tied their shoelaces together

29:11

and blown it, and yet it actually

29:13

felt on Saturday like they beat Scotland. Do you know

29:15

what I mean? That's a slight difference. Yeah. Are

29:18

we seeing Italy now really beginning to sort of

29:20

come to the party in a way that, you know,

29:22

for years they were and Italy as far as the

29:24

situation has been? I'd say so, yeah. I'd say so,

29:26

and Gonzalo Quesada honestly is the man

29:28

for the job, but I think it's also a matter

29:31

of whenever they won, and look, I lost to Italy

29:33

in Rome in 2013, but Sergio Parisi

29:36

was there, Gonzalo Cannale, Martin Castro Giovanni,

29:38

and you're thinking, who the hell

29:40

is ever going to replace that? You know, they've written a book

29:42

in history, but that was it. All

29:44

those guys now have a look at the

29:46

age average, but they're all youngsters, they're all

29:48

teeny weeny things, and every week you see

29:50

some more of them coming, and like you said,

29:52

the under 20s are taking some scalps, week in

29:54

and week out. So it's exciting times, and I

29:57

don't know why I put so much importance at it, but... stadium

30:01

before the game it's easy to say once they won it.

30:03

They feel in this country that

30:06

something's happening. I mean the I study Olympic has been

30:08

so dull and sad when it's half the empty they

30:10

don't even open the top tier because they don't even

30:12

try to sell it and then they hadn't

30:14

won a game in 11 years. 11 years. That's

30:16

a long long time. The

30:21

Titanic, 84 years. But all of a sudden

30:23

they felt it. So we're not the only

30:26

ones and yes they should have won especially

30:28

with the second half against France with that

30:30

they totally dominated. First half France should have

30:33

been 30 points ahead but we were

30:35

clumsy and and we didn't seize the opportunities.

30:37

Second half we were outplayed and we said

30:39

outplayed. It wasn't an intercept last minute and

30:42

and and that last one with

30:44

also you know Garbisi had should have been

30:46

given another shot at that penalty so it

30:49

made it really tough for them but they felt that something

30:51

new is coming. There's a new dynamic

30:54

because the Quesada stamp

30:56

is hitting those boys and giving them a

30:58

bit of a fresh new faces and they

31:00

are delivering so I know I was genuinely

31:02

happy for them. Do you think as well

31:04

because as a player when you're

31:06

facing Italy I think there's all often a little bit

31:08

of politeness because you'd always be quite confident you

31:10

were gonna win. You had the Parisé's, you had

31:12

the Castr when

31:21

you look at the players and the way they attack

31:23

and the play there's like a real danger and before

31:25

you know you'd have that kind of Latin spirit and

31:27

sometimes you know we had the ruck gate and there's

31:29

all these different clever ways of doing it. They

31:31

are now serious team and and you

31:34

know I think there was all that talk about Georgia

31:36

and that Georgia in and you know should

31:38

we get rid of Italy and I

31:40

think look let's not get carried away because there's still

31:43

this process but but you know they

31:45

are much more dangerous side now and I think when

31:47

you meet Italians you know that somehow I'd end up

31:49

being a lot of them you talk about it and

31:51

they kind of go oh yeah we're a rugby team

31:53

but they're you know they're not that good or whatever

31:55

I think now if they you know

31:57

because they're such a football nation they're capturing some

31:59

imaginations over there because they're doing it, they're

32:01

playing with spirit and they're not just playing

32:03

pluckiness or disruptive, they're actually genuinely having a

32:06

go and they're looking great because Casada's a

32:09

brilliant coach and I think for Scotland, you

32:11

know, I said it two weeks ago, I said how

32:13

long do you keep talking about this team as, you

32:16

know, they're going to do stuff under

32:18

towns and I'm not saying you should be replaced,

32:20

but I just, you've got to

32:22

start asking questions now, like what point, because

32:24

they're super talented, they're beating England, they've got

32:27

some amazing players in there. But

32:29

you're saying when does it,

32:31

when's it time for a fresh? Yeah, because we're not

32:33

going to be that great. Yeah, you look at anything,

32:35

it's quite nice to have a fresh face come in

32:37

and... But I don't want to call for a scout,

32:39

I've been very excited about Scotland because

32:42

Scotland had a period, do you remember, they couldn't

32:44

score. Patterson was the only person that scored for

32:46

Scotland, do you remember, they played games that could

32:48

just kick the ball, then obviously Finn Russell came

32:51

in and, you know, Dwayne on the

32:53

wing, you know, we had Hamish Watson,

32:56

they've got so many good players, Dwayne.

32:58

No, no, that's a worry about Dwayne, I do know it's

33:02

do hand around the motor, it's not complete, well,

33:06

but they picked up so many different players

33:08

and they've just flattered to the seas, which

33:11

I think is really frustrating because on their

33:13

day, they're brilliant and again, their team is

33:15

full of amazing players, but what's, at

33:18

what point do you start being a bit harsh on Scotland? Because they

33:20

didn't do what they should have done in the World Cup, they didn't

33:22

do what they've done in the Six Nations, they haven't actually

33:24

been that close to winning anything, but we know what an

33:26

amazing player and coach Gregor Townsend is, we know what good

33:28

player Finn Russell is, we know how good this team is,

33:30

why are they not finding a high level of consistency?

33:36

I generally can't tell you, they got

33:38

robbed, or robbed, it might

33:40

be a bit harsh, but they got denied the

33:42

victory that was theirs against France and

33:45

I hate to admit it, but it's true, so

33:47

did that impact their morale? Yes, they have some

33:49

fantastic players, but I think as soon as they

33:51

lose one or two, it's complicated for them, the

33:53

depth is simply not there, and

33:56

then mainly, they're

33:58

not consistent enough. They just

34:01

delivered those performances week in and

34:03

week out. And when

34:05

it's about going really deep into the

34:07

emotion signs and the ticker and the

34:09

passion about it, they got out-passioned by

34:11

the Italians. I think

34:14

every nation goes through a bit where you can't

34:16

find that consistency. You know you have

34:18

a team, Scotland being the prime example of that. But

34:21

there's periods in time with France where they leave

34:23

them on the years and all those sort of

34:25

years. And England for

34:27

the last four years, where you just

34:29

can't find that consistency. You know there's performance

34:31

in there. I think now we're getting

34:34

to an Italy team that has genuine

34:36

talent throughout it from 1 to 15.

34:40

Yes, they still need more, but we know there's

34:42

more coming. We know how well the 21's are

34:44

doing. But I feel that Italy

34:46

and now the

34:49

boulders started rolling down the hill. And

34:52

with that you'll pick up more

34:54

players along the way. There will be

34:56

more people playing the game and there's

34:58

more challenge for position. Then hopefully

35:01

keeping the games at the high level, there

35:03

will be more competition that they can play.

35:06

And then that just rises and you get used to

35:08

those environments and your

35:10

ability to play at that level becomes a more

35:12

constant thing. And then you're

35:14

on your way. I was going

35:16

to ask, Townsend must be the

35:19

longest serving coach. That was

35:21

kind of my point. Do you think in comparison to

35:23

the other guys, he would be the longest serving coach

35:25

in the six nations? No problem with Gatlin coming back.

35:28

Yeah, but he obviously came back. But in terms

35:30

of consistency with a team, that's all I'm asking.

35:32

Because I think you don't have to come like

35:34

football. But at what point, if

35:36

you're not going to unlock it now, I think

35:38

every coach needs a build up. But at some

35:40

point if it's just not, you're

35:42

not quite clicking. I think what

35:44

you're hinting to is that sometimes you just need a different

35:46

voice. When you hit the ticker and

35:48

you ask for more and more from a team, it's great

35:50

when it's young, when it's fresh, when it keeps on going.

35:53

But then you're going to ask for more and even more

35:55

from the same voice. It's complicated. So

35:57

that's their decision to make. It's

36:00

always, you know, the grass is not always greener

36:02

elsewhere. Who do you replace him with? You also

36:04

have to have the right candidate to know what

36:06

can he bring something different. Look, I still think

36:09

he's taken Scotland to a different level. I agree.

36:11

I agree. There's also the other side of

36:14

that coin, where as you bring someone in,

36:16

he completely destroys what you've got. And I'm

36:18

not an advocate, it's just more... It looks

36:20

from the side of the coin. Yeah. Worth

36:22

reminding everyone, Scotland can still win a championship.

36:25

And on a week-to-week basis that we're going through at the moment.

36:27

I mean, we've had Borthwick out, now Borthwick's getting a knighthood. We've

36:29

had King of

36:31

Scotland, and now he's on the dole. What a difference today, mate.

36:33

I know. It's just always the way. It's why we love it,

36:35

isn't it? Chaos and Cardiff. I

36:38

thought Max Boyce was brilliant pre-game, actually. He

36:40

conducted a lot of fantastic. He laughed. And

36:42

that line and I was brilliant. In terms

36:44

of the lines that he dropped in. Yeah,

36:46

yeah. The lines that you just get... He

36:49

didn't think he was going to get dropped

36:51

so we can have him back. He

36:53

didn't actually sing. It was a one-time show. He

36:55

was just... He was... Ask. Yeah,

36:58

was that? It was more

37:00

expensive. That's nice of you. Yeah, less swearing. I

37:02

cannot swear. Are you a France partner? Wow,

37:05

look. Come on, we're on the high train. Jump on. I

37:09

am a super-duper happy, different

37:11

level than what I saw on Saturday afternoon, genuinely.

37:15

I think from France played well. I

37:17

was super, super excited about seeing that

37:19

new line-up. And finally, the big ballsy

37:22

calls that were made by Faméric Algiers. They

37:24

were always saying, why do you start Maxime

37:26

Lucu? Because he partners up with Jelibert and

37:28

Jelibert is not there. Noland Le Garic is

37:30

super excited. Oh, well, he's good, mate. He's

37:32

electric. He's only 21 years old. He was

37:34

young. He made a sort of erotic pass.

37:37

You know, the backhand, she said, erotic.

37:39

Yeah, erotic. Erotic. He thought that's what

37:41

he meant. But he was also erratic

37:43

because he should have been intercepted about three times.

37:45

But he didn't, which was brilliant. He even made

37:48

it even juicier and even better. But

37:50

Du Porteir, really excited to see him more

37:52

now. He's not a 12. I

37:54

think he's more of a 13. Gail Fikou, criticising

37:56

the press properly delivered. Dami-en-Punot.

38:00

He was running everywhere like there was no tomorrow really

38:02

excited to see him. Look, I want

38:04

to see him next week against England. You see

38:06

George Martin against the money me a fool. Holy

38:08

smokes. They're gonna kill each other. Yeah, they're absolutely

38:10

gonna go at it. They're gonna line each other

38:12

up. It's going to be something and when we

38:14

thought you had one ginormous tightest prop with Winnie

38:16

Antonio. We found another one. So it's only cool.

38:18

Oh, it's 140 K. Where's recognize

38:20

found it? Just like very

38:23

far source

38:25

of food. That's for sure because he is

38:27

one big man. So not so excited but

38:30

still not the same level of performance. I'm not

38:32

saying look first the fifth division. I'm saying it

38:35

would have not cut it against. I

38:37

took it. Well, there was me. You could

38:39

see when you make eight changes that you

38:41

could just see the miss miss timing the

38:44

miss firing. Yeah, and that

38:46

just takes that that French team is

38:48

a team that flows and it flows

38:50

into the offloads. It flows into that

38:52

sort of classiness together. It was just

38:55

a bit still bit jaggedy but

38:57

the power game. I think that was the

38:59

biggest thing. They looked powerful and

39:02

I think for this for this tournament this

39:04

tournament so far that that little

39:06

bit of everything we've talked about power physicality hasn't

39:08

really been there. It was back. What do you

39:10

think we haven't I haven't been on the show

39:12

with you since what do you think? Francis

39:16

problems work like because because would you

39:18

said it was selection because that's because

39:20

sometimes there's select different players can change the

39:23

team but it doesn't they don't turn a bad

39:25

team overnight. What was it? It wasn't what was

39:27

it? Was it a do-it-all factor? What was going

39:29

on? I guess more than one thing number one

39:32

the real disappointing team of the last World Cup

39:34

is Ireland. Okay, and we realized

39:36

after round one because we were heartbroken after

39:38

South Africa, but I think

39:40

we were dreaming and I was dreaming 100% about, you know,

39:44

deserving that World Cup, but we still

39:47

we were not exactly there changing of

39:49

coaching stuff. Lineout coach change attack

39:51

coach change the first game against Ireland. We have

39:53

50% of decent line out and attack is all

39:55

over the place eight days. They have to put

39:57

their stamp on their own to a team. You

40:00

know how it is, you got four trainees, you probably roughly have five

40:02

hours on the pitch. It's not

40:04

a lot, right? So it takes time to change.

40:06

Secondly, the World Cup is still hungover. Definitely.

40:09

The boys are still hurt, but hurt mentally

40:11

and also emotionally drained.

40:13

It really got them more than anybody else

40:15

because it was our World Cup, we were

40:17

there to win it and we got killed

40:19

with some complicated circumstances. And I think they

40:22

really hadn't gotten over

40:24

it. And the third thing is, like you said, the

40:26

team selection. Forget about Antoine

40:28

Jupin. Injuries. Ten

40:30

days before the game, you lose four starters. You

40:33

lose Meafu, who's been in and around the French team

40:35

for the last 18 months, when is he going to

40:38

start, has he got his passport, has he got his

40:40

passport and couldn't make the World Cup because he had

40:42

a passport. But the world rugby asked for five years

40:44

of residency or something. It was the rules of

40:47

the World Cup, not of the French eligibility

40:49

that prevented them from getting to the World

40:51

Cup. Really? Yeah, yeah. So,

40:53

for one day or one week, he was too

40:55

short for it. So then he finally got his

40:57

passport, Thibault Flamin dropped out two

41:00

weeks before, Antoine Joulon, de Deserges ACL,

41:02

Romain Tamak is still not back, and Antoine Jupon

41:05

decided to go somewhere else. So, look,

41:08

not making excuses. No, no. We were clearly

41:10

not as good as Ireland. Sounds like you. Cared

41:12

not as good as Ireland. But

41:15

that's what happened. And then it took a good

41:17

bit of time. It took some luck

41:19

against Scotland. It took a

41:21

proper slap in the face against Italy and now

41:23

we buzz back. So it's going to be a great

41:26

election. Are the men still in for the championship? I

41:28

just want to ask one story. I

41:32

had, right, and I said this after the

41:34

second game when they nearly lost against Scotland.

41:36

The only man who called Italy to beat

41:38

you. Sorry

41:40

about that. I know who you are.

41:44

But I said to the guys, because obviously

41:46

the old cliche about France was kind of

41:48

the emotion and

41:51

the inflammatory nature of everything that was going

41:53

on. Obviously Under this coaching staff

41:55

and the way the players got completely gone, we saw in

41:57

the build up to the World Cup that they had the

41:59

men. Fortitude, the ability to the consistency. I

42:01

did a him out though when he has

42:03

it that with complicated go wealth. Whether that

42:06

will be some changes all the france because

42:08

he put personality wise you will see me

42:10

up or friends perhaps that sums up the

42:12

same it's up with things go Grow was

42:14

fine but friends and light bulb a politician

42:16

or like to fill out the koran says

42:18

up to think if they hadn't won against

42:20

wells won convincingly that that would have been

42:22

changes would was under pressure that the hypothalamus

42:24

of that's the last thing I didn't say

42:26

is that the last four years have been

42:28

built on down on up. Have been preference

42:30

presidents and finally and his protege something else

42:32

If he was his captain when he was

42:34

are the odds in the friends team and

42:37

then when he left that for save between

42:39

you and I is having get he got

42:41

a job because of done are both of

42:43

us he is he's always very close to

42:45

my was indian or lots and and so

42:47

we need to be federation you decide to

42:49

sell of the number one priority is the

42:51

French team the league and and with I'm

42:53

with blood a was complicated fights against the

42:55

legion and it's finally got to disagreements with

42:57

the last four years some he has he

42:59

had. The most resources that were ever given

43:02

by a country mile to any friends

43:04

to coach forty two players per week.

43:06

eight we consecutive during the Six Nations.

43:08

No more, they're here in back. I

43:10

mean it was almost like having federal

43:12

contracts, but only for the P. As

43:14

exciting as never before had he had

43:16

so much. The clubs were know they

43:18

pull their pants down really for the

43:20

benefit of the French team because the

43:22

World Cup was in France to them

43:24

a ginormous sacrifices which also honestly pay

43:26

off to everyone because the French team

43:28

that science there's more people wasn't. Of was

43:30

into my so they finally decide to in

43:32

line for some not saying they were overly

43:34

abuse but as I'd like to say right,

43:36

for the benefit of the country we will

43:38

make a ginormous efforts economy, cool air resources

43:40

whatever it is and a moment where the

43:43

pandemic hit in the middle and the clubs

43:45

were shaking now. For. the symbolic gonna

43:47

posts left got more got adults in

43:49

a big you to disavow as received

43:51

floyd income who's who was you know

43:53

the on the one protester against everything

43:55

that been done on a bus was

43:57

unreliable source as us as we possibly

43:59

j sides and then comes the

44:01

negotiation of the agreement between the club and

44:03

the Federation. It did not go like the

44:06

way that it was going four years ago.

44:08

Really? It changed it all? Yeah, now he

44:10

has 30 players per week and

44:12

every Wednesday he needs to or 32 players

44:14

I think he needs to release six not

44:17

by the Thursday but by the Wednesday so

44:19

that I can play with their clubs. And

44:21

it totally changed. Really? And you know after

44:23

this the the loss against Africa it was

44:25

oh we are not present enough in on

44:27

the international stage in the government of world

44:30

rugby. The boss of refs is

44:32

a Frenchman so I don't believe that but so

44:34

the the problem of politics and the division is

44:37

back on. It went from being quite

44:39

civilized now? 100% so I

44:41

don't know how much that influences the

44:43

team that would be honestly another excuse for

44:46

the excuse box but Fabian Galke is under

44:48

pressure not to get ejected he's under pressure

44:50

to deliver like he should be and he's

44:52

not as predicted as you used to be.

44:55

Very interesting. It's rugby isn't

44:58

it? Of course we're going round about once again. Let's

45:00

have a look ahead at weekend in just a moment.

45:02

I very quickly want to mark your cards with a

45:04

note from our friends at NordVPN who are back and

45:06

are offering good bad rugby lists as an exclusive deal.

45:09

Did you know if you're abroad during the Six Nations

45:11

you can switch your virtual location to back home so

45:13

you can access your streaming services to watch the game.

45:15

We are actually off, all four of us again to

45:17

the Hong Kong Sevens talking about D'Honcog 7s, we're

45:20

gonna do a show. He won't be there. Is he not gonna

45:22

be there? He's only doing two tournaments, he's won it, he's gone.

45:24

Wait for the Olympics now. Wow. I

45:27

don't know if it's going to be that

45:29

good. We'll be taking NordVPN with us, what

45:31

are you doing? Other than streaming from back

45:33

home? Well I'll be using NordVPN quite consistently

45:35

over there to follow up some TV series

45:38

involved in to give myself some cyber protection

45:40

as I'm doing some heavy big money deals.

45:42

And then I will be DJing

45:46

out there and then we're going to Australia. We have

45:48

to work for the Australian Tourist Board to

45:50

promote the decade of green and gold. We

45:53

are. And then on Australia, again I'll be

45:55

using NordVPN. Why? I think they bloody love

45:57

it. Yeah. Can I just ask, you

45:59

are... one of the funnest pundits

46:01

out there. Are you actually a 7th ambassador out of

46:03

the Hong Kong 7s? For all you've achieved in the

46:06

game. I think honestly there was a lot of... Because

46:08

everyone looked for you. Everyone looked for you and you

46:10

said there was nobody else. You had a lot of forces and

46:12

you were like, hang on a second. But you

46:14

will not know that I was a ball boy in 1995 for the

46:16

Hong Kong 7s. And

46:19

that's why you've got to pull up again. That's

46:21

the genius lick. You

46:24

get to get there as a ambassador. 1995 was a ball

46:26

boy for getting back to Hong Kong. I

46:30

had a rugby career in Hong Kong because I lived there

46:32

for a year. It was ball boy and meta ball for

46:34

something else. No, no, it was literally a ball boy. It

46:37

was 1995 for Lomu, Colin, Christian Colin,

46:40

Eric Rush, Sarévi, Yevron

46:42

Montbrouw, Charles Olivier Mann, Philippe

46:44

Bernatzel for France. We won

46:47

the Cup, I think. Have

46:50

you got a few places we can go to? Do you know a few night spots? Yeah,

46:53

I was there about 30 years ago so I know

46:55

everything. No, nothing. Anything

46:57

you're watching at the moment you'll be taking with you on NordVPN?

47:01

I'm having a Paris? No, look,

47:03

keeping up with the business. Keeping up with...

47:07

I've got an investment business and we've got 14 companies

47:10

that we need to look after so there's exciting

47:12

innovation coming out on a regular basis. I've got

47:14

to keep up with this. You're so grown up.

47:17

To get the best off your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN...

47:20

NordVPN? A

47:22

different company. Too long time at 10s. Go

47:25

to Hong Kong? Hold

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on, think it's... Shut up, it's me. Oh,

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NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com. Go to nordvpn.com. Our

47:36

link can give you 4 extra months on the G-year plan plus

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a bonus gift and the link is

47:41

in the podcast episode description box. Previews

47:43

for the weekend, please. Pressure on Gatlin? Not

47:46

really because... Wales

47:48

are where they are right now but it is

47:50

a massive game against Italy. Potential first wooden spoon

47:52

for Wales since 2003. Do

47:54

they finish with a flourish or did the Azuri go unbeaten free? Look,

47:56

I think... You're the master... Master suit...

48:00

I think it would be a bit, I

48:02

think Gatlin, again if it was another coach and

48:05

the fact that the way they played against

48:07

England for parts of the game and some

48:10

of the quality players like how disruptive they can be, Tom

48:12

Rifelt, those guys are that. I just think it

48:15

would be too much pride to

48:17

do that and lose and I also think

48:19

the pressure will be a bit on Gatlin

48:21

because even though I don't think

48:23

it would matter who you put in there because of where

48:25

they are as a transition period, I just think he's a

48:27

proud bloke. I don't know whether, what happens

48:29

after. I don't think he should go because I don't think anyone else

48:32

could do it and I think it takes a bit of time to

48:34

rebuild but I think there's a bit of pressure on him. I

48:36

just don't see Wales losing, I don't think, if they

48:39

aren't very capable I just think for

48:41

me they can't under

48:43

any circumstances do that and I think they've got

48:45

the emotional ability to potentially put it back but

48:47

I'd be very close. The tough thing for Wales

48:49

is actually if you look at the gradient of

48:51

the Six Nations for them, so close against Scotland,

48:53

extraordinary comeback, could have, would have, should have won

48:55

at Twickenham. Ireland obviously very

48:57

professional, then France who put up 45,

48:59

it's not going in

49:01

the right direction for them. How do they jack that

49:03

back up into something where everyone gets in behind what

49:05

they're trying to do very quickly? It

49:08

was a complicated, I was in the studio with Sam

49:10

Morbroughton and he was like, look, we just need more

49:12

muscle, we need more physicality and you can't just pick

49:14

it up with the players that they have at the

49:16

moment so they need Jack Morgan to come back, they

49:19

need some big fellas to come back, they need to

49:21

find new players in six months. Unfortunately for

49:23

this one and I've got nothing against Wales, I'm

49:25

very worried about them because I reckon Italy will

49:27

go there and be like, look, we've already made

49:29

something good, now they can have the best Six

49:31

Nations ever if they win there and

49:33

I think Gonzalo Quezada is still hungry and there,

49:36

these boys will be hungry. They're not as physical

49:38

and as powerful as France so they will offer

49:40

a different threat. I do think

49:42

Wales will stand up, yes, but

49:44

I reckon Italy will go

49:46

there with some serious and validated intentions.

49:49

Any hope for Scotland in Dublin or is

49:51

this Ireland's silverware? Yeah,

49:54

I think, I don't think they

49:56

can go over there. I think Ireland's

49:59

been a good and normally they're a bogey team anyway, they

50:01

seem to have them wrapped around

50:03

their fingers so I think it'd be a big

50:06

shock if they did go over there. Yeah, will

50:08

they? Obviously,

50:12

could they bounce back emotionally for one game after

50:14

what they went through on the weekend? I

50:17

think they will feel that they owe Greg a hit,

50:19

they owe their fans a hit,

50:21

but also Islander in the same boat and

50:23

at home at the Aviva. I'm

50:27

not sure you can go there and win. I

50:29

still think Scotland on their day can pull out a performance

50:31

that can beat them. Right, whether

50:34

it will be this weekend. I think that's exactly

50:36

right. The 100% can Scotland beat Ireland, yes, because

50:38

we know they've got that X factor. I just

50:40

think if you look at any good consistent side,

50:43

all blacks usually like it, you lose and then

50:45

how quickly you turn it around. This

50:47

I think will be a good learning thing for Andy Farrell.

50:49

Nobody wants to lose, but I think it'll be interesting again

50:51

like after the World Cup how

50:54

they bounce back on this win and how they consistently

50:56

do it and actually I'd say Island will be more

50:58

dangerous because you're going to learn far more from the

51:00

loss like the old cliche goes and

51:02

actually they didn't play that badly, but there would

51:04

have been some real game management bits, some individual player

51:06

errors and to see how they can upgrade

51:08

their game. I think it'll be an interesting

51:10

work week and Andy Farrell is a master of keeping them

51:13

around. I think they need to

51:15

cement themselves, bounce straight back this weekend, business as

51:17

usual and carry on. The

51:19

Bockeys have France favourite by eight,

51:23

Island by 15 and then Wales by

51:25

18. I'd say

51:27

that's big on Wales.

51:32

I'd say two of those. I'd take

51:34

England plus eight, I'd take Italy

51:36

plus eight and a half and

51:38

then you're taking a call on Scotland, but

51:40

I don't know if Scotland played a semi-decent

51:43

game, I'm not necessarily saying that Island are

51:45

definitely 15 points better. How confident are you

51:47

in Lyon for France? Excited,

51:49

confident, not so much because again

51:51

this performance was great. I can't

51:53

wait to see the youngsters again

51:55

and have another opportunity, but

51:57

it's going to be a serious England team. that

52:00

are going to come up. Probably they're

52:02

going to be remembering that 53-10 in Tukunem.

52:05

They're going to remember all those crap years where

52:07

they got bashed and they're going to still be

52:09

hungry. I think one thing that worries me is

52:11

the six-day turnaround. It will be a little bit

52:14

more tough physically because they properly drained out of

52:16

them the win in Wales.

52:18

But now it's just exciting to see a

52:20

quality game. Unfortunately we will know how the

52:22

other games will have unraveled before so there

52:25

will be zero stress around it. I think

52:27

unfortunately because I agree I see Ireland be

52:30

putting away Scotland. But, irrespective, an important game

52:32

to finish off the six nations with the

52:34

new coaching squad. Can't wait to see the

52:36

young fellows again. Can we see another step

52:38

forward from the Singman team? You know what?

52:40

I think of course we can. I think

52:43

again unfortunately there is no magic

52:45

recipe to deliver a performance like that again. I

52:47

think it'll be very difficult to do

52:49

that against France because I

52:52

think there are quality outfits. I think

52:54

for all the reasons Ben said and I wanted to pick

52:56

it as to why they were changed

52:58

because obviously we'd only heard about the sort of du

53:00

pan that was the kind of thing that everyone was

53:02

saying. But actually all the changes behind the scenes. I

53:06

think actually winning breeds winning and

53:09

I think that the setup this weekend will

53:11

be very different. I think it has kind

53:13

of cemented a few places. I think

53:15

there'll be a lot of fun. I think there'll be a lot

53:17

of hard work. I think a lot of respect for a French

53:19

side because if you take them lightly it can

53:21

be a very difficult afternoon and unlike any

53:23

other side of the Six Nations the X

53:25

factor of the individual players is I think

53:27

higher than anyone. I've always thought

53:30

that with French. I think French players consistently have always

53:32

been better as individuals. They just haven't always played

53:35

that well as a team. We've seen that with this

53:37

French team that they can do that. I

53:40

just think England could be on a bit of a

53:42

roll. I think they can actually breathe a sigh of

53:44

relief. I think the newspapers and the media will be

53:47

way different than they've expected because everyone's now jumping on

53:49

the bandwagon. I personally think

53:51

if France lose and lose in

53:53

a bad way the pressure comes back on.

53:55

There's all these question marks over certain people and I don't

53:57

know how long they can keep that side. coach

54:00

side together without being forced by

54:02

people to make changes. So it's a very

54:04

interesting story. I'll go with England but I

54:07

don't know by how many. OK. Tweaks,

54:10

changes, same team, same plan. Well,

54:13

I think arriving at this

54:16

game, if you look at France, the physicality that they

54:18

had on the weekend, so it's still going to be

54:20

that physical battle that they talked about before Ireland. I

54:24

think England,

54:26

can England handle France up front? The pack

54:28

weighs almost a ton. Yeah,

54:31

973. Yeah, 973. But

54:35

I think from England's point of view, if

54:38

they'd have lost on the weekend, and we've

54:40

talked about this, is performance over result.

54:43

If England go out and play the same way and maybe fall

54:45

on the other side of it, I think it's

54:47

going to be a good game and hopefully, you

54:49

know, the Six Nations really came alive this weekend.

54:53

First three weekends have been a lot

54:55

of mistakes. That

54:57

World Cup hangover has hit

55:00

every team, really. Whereas

55:02

it really kick-started. So I just hope that we get that.

55:04

It's a shame that Ireland aren't playing last, though it would

55:06

go all the way up to that last

55:09

game. But I think England can

55:12

go over there and get in amongst

55:14

them. Can they deal with the pressure

55:16

that's coming off that England defensive and

55:18

how much will that allow

55:20

England to get into the game? I

55:23

want to see a bit of chaos, which was

55:25

in that French Wales game. It was chaotic and

55:27

it was great to watch and hopefully

55:30

we'll get some games like that.

55:32

Let's hope the Six Nations finishes with a flourish.

55:35

Before we go, you know what we've got to finish off is

55:37

our Haycart Six Nations selector, where we delve into

55:39

the past and try to pick the greatest players

55:41

to play in the Six Nations. Haycart,

55:44

as you will know by now, have only the

55:46

best quality-checked used vehicles. You can buy directly online

55:48

or in person through one of their trusted retailers.

55:50

They even have vehicles that you will not be

55:52

able to find or buy anywhere else. And

55:54

like our relationship with Haycart, this game is all

55:56

about great partnerships, so our picks have to be

55:58

made in units. The last slot

56:00

into place is the second row and

56:02

it has to be from Scotland. It's very

56:05

easy. It's a very quick game. Because they

56:07

have picked from the other five nations. So

56:09

our team so far is up front, the

56:11

Cicero Giraldini Castro Giovanni in a back row

56:13

hill back to Laleo to Port Untermac are

56:15

our half backs, Darcino Driscoll in the centres,

56:18

North Cuthbert and half Penny as our back

56:20

three. So here's what you could have won

56:22

as second row partnerships. Itosha and Cruz who've

56:24

won two championships, Johnson and Kay with the

56:26

Grand Slam in 2003 from England.

56:29

Ireland obviously had O'Connell and O'Callaghan who were the Grand

56:31

Slammers of 2009 and that 23

56:34

six nations starts together. Alan Wynn of Wales

56:36

won with Ian Gough in 2008 a Grand Slam, Ian

56:38

Evans in 2012 and 2013, Adam

56:41

Beard in 2019 and 2021 as well. That's

56:44

a lot of activity for the great man.

56:47

In France Fabian Pelus and Pascal Pape, 2004

56:50

Grand Slam and Waki and Willemse in 2022. And

56:54

just for reference, Canone and Rutsa who are making a name

56:57

for themselves in this current Italian team. But

56:59

the two options we've got were bending the rules at the

57:01

last, it's very unlike us. Jonny Gray and

57:03

Richie Gray, a lot of energy. Jonny

57:05

is a Champions Cup winner which isn't totally relevant to the

57:08

six nations. Richie was a British and

57:10

Irish line. And our curveball, I know six nations

57:12

only but we're actually going to throw in Scott

57:14

Murray and Stuart Grimes who won the 1999 five nations. So

57:18

it has an asterisk next time. On the back

57:21

of Scott Gives Us Try. Yes. Apparently,

57:24

before this year's tournament, Oft to Jonny tweeted

57:26

that Scott Murray had the most line out

57:28

takes 223 and steals 54

57:30

of any player in six nations history. I

57:34

played with Scott Murray in cast

57:36

and he's a hilarious player who can

57:38

sing vanilla ice in ice. I

57:40

would go with that. I would go with that. I would

57:43

go with that. Almost as good as Thins. Yeah. Almost

57:46

as good. And he was a brilliant team mate.

57:48

Are we picking on rapping? I know that the

57:50

younger year here or not. I'm going to your ear

57:52

on that. We should show you the belt. It's

57:56

like Jonny Gray once had a chicken take away. Richard

58:00

Grey saved someone from a burning house, so that's great.

58:02

Doesn't it always sound the same when it gets to

58:04

Scott? Stewart Grey's always... The barrel! Stewart

58:07

Grey's always making sure his car's MOT, so... Scott

58:09

Murray... I tell you, we've got a bigger climax

58:11

this is because... Scott Murray... Scott may

58:14

wear great trousers, so that's... Yeah, it feels

58:16

like the back three should have been... been

58:18

hog... hog... the...

58:21

the... back of a... and...

58:24

What happens when I'm not involved? We can't... We're

58:26

not going back now, are we? We're not. Scott,

58:28

why didn't you arrive? They did play the... They did

58:30

play the... They did play the... They definitely

58:32

did play. I definitely played against Faisal and

58:34

played together. That basis alone is congratulations. They'll

58:37

be absolutely delighted with that innovation. But Johnny

58:39

and Richard Grey, we do love you. We

58:41

do love you, mate. But Johnny Grey doesn't

58:43

use responsibly sourced shampoo, so we can't allow

58:45

him to be bad. It's

58:47

the test of the animals, which was the

58:49

final decider into losing out on us. As

58:51

a result of Johnny Grey's shampoo selection, it's

58:53

Scott Murray and Stewart Grimes who complete our

58:55

hate-class Six Nations dream team. I tell you

58:57

what, it's been a hell of a roller

58:59

coaster over the last five weeks and it really does finish on

59:01

us. You think people are going to read through it and go, yep,

59:04

yep, yep. Second row. Are

59:06

you kidding me? Yeah. I didn't

59:08

want to say the rules because nobody... We're not going to try to explain

59:10

the game on the first thing. Everyone switched off. So nobody's going to be

59:12

able to down it and you're going to pick it from one day. I

59:14

may have even played it on my own with you just getting in the

59:16

way with... All I wanted was to be thought to that. That's all I

59:18

wanted. I know. You made a big case

59:20

there. Well done, Scott Murray and Stewart Grimes. That completes

59:22

our hate-class Six Nations dream team. So the

59:24

next year car from Haycar is a much easier process than

59:26

we've just been through. They only have the best quality check

59:28

used vehicles and you can buy directly online or in person

59:30

through one of their trusted retailers. Buy

59:33

your next car the feel-good way with Haycar. Just

59:35

before we go this week, one very special bottle

59:37

of black eye that we need to stick in

59:39

the post as well. Yeah, I thought it was

59:42

quite emotional at the Wales,

59:46

France game with Craig Maxwell, former

59:49

commercial manager for the WIU

59:51

and the Six Nations, two

59:54

unions we do a lot of stuff with. Diagnosed

59:57

with inoperable lung cancer. There

1:00:00

was on the walk a walked all

1:00:02

the coastal path of Wales and the

1:00:04

raising money. And. The

1:00:07

I delivered the match for a walk.

1:00:09

The walk out a D C was

1:00:11

good. We got yeah yeah we'll kids

1:00:13

that cold read the on a thought

1:00:15

it was a choir spine tingling special

1:00:17

moments her absolutely a bucket people want

1:00:19

to donate at Maxwell Genomics Fund is

1:00:21

the place to head as well. And

1:00:23

of the great the very very best

1:00:25

from all of us. An amazingly inspiration

1:00:27

method that you've put together An Ip.

1:00:29

Get the full support of all the

1:00:31

rugby fans at In Your Challenge right

1:00:34

now finally be part of a good

1:00:36

discuss. And the rugby is exclusive pre

1:00:38

match event which is gearing up for Wales

1:00:40

against Scotland around one of the women

1:00:42

Six Nations. that is that The walkabout in

1:00:44

Cardiff to Slipknot so o'clock on Saturday,

1:00:46

the twenty third of March if you'd like

1:00:49

to be, that's had to event bright.com

1:00:51

to get your tickets. Great to go down

1:00:53

the road ahead of what should be

1:00:55

another fantastic women's Six Nations that is coming

1:00:57

up shortly. The winner of the Six

1:00:59

Nations and Twenty Twenty Four will be on

1:01:01

Silence. As of

1:01:04

said with the resignations let's hope we have

1:01:06

a for Naughty to the Six Nations which

1:01:08

we all enjoy wherever you are watching this

1:01:10

weekend at also just to finish been all

1:01:12

the very best. No seats in the finals.

1:01:14

A continental Tos school top we are It's

1:01:16

we can have on Thursday and be a

1:01:19

printed out and may the best thieves when

1:01:21

that is it from us. for this week

1:01:23

we'll get the bad the rubbish and parts

1:01:25

of the content has thank you very much

1:01:27

Anti to the guys were folding pocket production

1:01:29

This episode is produced by Thomas and will

1:01:32

see you next week to sift. Through all

1:01:34

the final round of a good as men

1:01:36

six nations that before all of us button

1:01:38

up. Or of law. He

1:01:45

had been listening to the goods

1:01:47

a the bad earth hundred think.

1:01:51

the knowledge stay in seems hostile

1:01:53

and mike tindall thanks for listening

1:02:01

Or anything outside the M25 is awful, to

1:02:03

be honest.