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2:33

on the grave talks evil

2:36

in the object to conversation

2:38

with Eric Vitaly. We've.

2:58

All heard the stories someone goes to

3:00

an antique store by denied him. That

3:02

truly speaks to them and slowly strange

3:04

things begin happening around their home. Surprised

3:07

he bought one hundred objects. The.

3:09

World's most famous collection of haunted objects resides

3:11

in a small building a New England. Property.

3:14

Once owned by Ed and Lorraine Warren. The

3:17

famed Annabel doll, many other relics

3:19

of real life for her old

3:21

trapped behind his walls dividing prayers

3:23

that are said there today. We

3:25

take a deep die with some

3:27

of those objects for the museum

3:29

and beyond. Some. Of the

3:31

places they came from, we have a

3:33

conversation with Eric Vitaly of the New

3:35

England Society for Paranormal Research. Wow!

3:38

We had ah young kid reach out

3:40

to was emailed us through Naspers. contacted

3:43

the team whose chris galore and reached

3:45

out to me. He said eric you

3:47

really good with the religious stuff could

3:49

you please help this kid he's got

3:52

a haunted items how much do sir

3:54

No problem So I reached out to

3:56

him and he explained to me that.

4:00

God is item from an Etsy store

4:02

which. As a surprise

4:04

me see our as if

4:06

he soon realized strange things

4:08

were occurring in the house

4:10

he was hearing weird noises.

4:12

The mood is a list.

4:15

And. There is on

4:17

light stream sales happening during the

4:19

night and he was scared and

4:21

he didn't know what to do.

4:25

So I basically had to walk him through

4:27

this entire process of how to get rid

4:29

of it which is something I've been telling

4:31

people for many, many years. especially something like

4:34

we Score But this was this like a

4:36

little toy items and it started like like

4:38

pieces would fall losses and stuff like that

4:40

when no one was me or it. So

4:43

I'm one of the com um doubt. First

4:45

of all because I didn't know what the

4:47

kid was the always because. He.

4:49

Know if it's something of a malevolent

4:51

nature of itself, the demonic Is this

4:53

kid scared? all that energy is being

4:55

pushed into the atmosphere than this things

4:58

get up his, get a seat off

5:00

that and get stronger sided. Modest could

5:02

be scared and all told them right

5:04

away and what I help you read

5:06

of figures a cell says let me

5:08

help you saw how to bring the

5:10

items for sap them as there is

5:12

somewhere. Isolate like you

5:14

know, deep in the woods. Something like

5:17

that, Somewhere where no one would ever

5:19

find the objects again. And

5:21

I told them to bring that

5:23

item out says it's destination to

5:25

the whole a given proper freres

5:27

as well and I hadn't put

5:29

the item in the whole sprinkle

5:31

holy water or adam go to

5:34

was local perishing a holy water

5:36

very the item is and see

5:38

more prayers again a proper. Revising

5:41

Prayers and I told them.

5:43

Now when you're done doing this, You.

5:46

Can tony with since about. It anymore.

5:49

Says you need says really be done

5:51

with it. It's a more than just

5:53

burying and seen some prayers. Don't you

5:55

think about it anymore? Give no more

5:57

energy. So what's this thing to say?

6:00

What is it? did see you and your loved

6:02

ones to forget about it. And

6:05

I'm a know I never heard back from

6:07

the kid after he he did daddy's he

6:09

said. Thanks! Nothing's

6:11

ever happens fouled up once and that

6:13

he never reached out to me again.

6:16

What? Was going on with the object specifically

6:18

like what? what? Why? Why did he contact

6:20

you that he was that concerned? He

6:23

was here and voices in the house.

6:25

He was here in a weird noises

6:27

our moods. Hayes is ah I'm. Which

6:30

is something I was really scary him

6:33

like people are just not themselves anymore

6:35

and I remember him saying something along

6:37

the lines of pieces of the the

6:40

item were like to see mysteriously like.

6:42

Ending up in other places in the

6:44

house when no one was home. And

6:47

this was a game board? Is that correct?

6:49

Is it was like a little. I

6:53

didn't even he name is semi a picture of

6:55

it was like a little shots of a little

6:57

like a statue or something. Okay okay. Haunted

7:00

candy land or something is awry.

7:02

Much. Is

7:04

this the little figurines I'd saying? But

7:06

yeah, stuff like this happen all the

7:09

time. people buy stuff from. It

7:11

all they go to like the and seats. Stores.

7:14

And Xenon. Xenon know what

7:17

they're buying on. So.

7:19

It isn't actually like crazy but you had

7:21

to help the kid out. I love wandering

7:24

through antique stores. It's one of those. It's

7:26

like it's as if I have a hobby

7:28

outside of this. that mean in this is

7:30

kind of career in a house or it

7:32

will be wandering around antique stores. I and

7:34

I don't necessarily by a ton of stuff.

7:37

it has to be like. oh this

7:39

is really gonna fits a rumor is setting her

7:41

something i'm kind of going for it very few

7:43

things have a seat in antiques from like i

7:45

just like and drawn do it i'm a half

7:48

to get it if i have no reason i

7:50

don't really get that's but i've always thought about

7:52

that and that's something i have talked about on

7:54

the air here over the years as many people

7:57

been it's i've had people on who run point

7:59

is antique store What's

8:01

your feelings on that? Is

8:05

there an inherent risk when you go to

8:07

an antique store getting something? Can you get

8:09

something from an antique store and

8:11

other than burying it and essentially

8:13

kind of blessing it, get

8:16

something to get away from the object? The

8:19

whole overall thing on objects that one would

8:21

just find. What are your thoughts on that?

8:24

I mean hey, if that's something you're

8:27

into, I'm very interested by it all.

8:29

I've got some objects in my house

8:31

that I probably shouldn't have,

8:33

but I know how to protect myself.

8:36

Yeah. You know, this deck

8:38

goes right back to Edelerne Warren. They

8:40

brought all that stuff back to their

8:42

home. The occult museum is literally a

8:45

small building that's connected to their home

8:47

and they would constantly do binding prayers

8:49

in there to contain the

8:52

entities within these objects, contain the

8:54

evil that's attached to these things.

8:56

I think if you

8:58

know how to protect yourself,

9:01

that's on you if you want to take

9:03

some of these objects and kind

9:05

of collect them if you will. Is

9:08

it a foolproof thing? I mean, or is

9:10

it a 100% thing that

9:13

binding prayers or whatever rituals

9:15

may be done or asking

9:19

for protection will protect you from

9:21

the objects that are brought into

9:23

one's home? I

9:26

believe so, but

9:28

I mean there's always that what

9:30

if. We still get

9:33

some activity at the occult museum. We

9:37

investigated there about a year ago.

9:40

You remember I sent you the voice

9:43

that came out of the ghost

9:45

box I was using. It said Annabelle. Well,

9:47

what the hell said Annabelle at 3 o'clock

9:49

in the morning while I'm standing in front

9:51

of the doll? And the

9:53

odds of that picking that word

9:55

are also like what? You

10:00

know my my see is most

10:02

important the of and I know

10:04

God is more powerful than a

10:06

devil or team And so even

10:08

if these binding prayers don't always

10:10

work, I truly believe. God.

10:13

Protect Me! I pray to see

10:15

Michael every day on. So.

10:18

That sister rescue take with it's

10:20

worth sure sure if it is

10:22

always fascinated me I mean the

10:24

fact that either Adam Lorraine put

10:27

that museum together. And. Emily

10:29

get it and upset. says that they

10:31

felt confident enough. Because they knew

10:33

the backstory had every single item the you

10:35

know they? Yeah, they did. they witnessed it

10:37

in many states itself, but they felt they

10:40

felt confident enough to say we're going to

10:42

put this in our outbuilding here and apps,

10:44

we're not going to worry about. It. And

10:47

what's really great? You. Know

10:49

as. I mean, for lack

10:51

of a better term and was such

10:53

a bad ass. I mean the stories

10:55

I've heard about this guy. And.

10:58

He he. He. Was Amazing.

11:00

I mean truly amazing. Just to get

11:02

off topic for a quick no go

11:05

ahead area Important case the Devil in

11:07

Connecticut John during three was based on

11:09

at the Up on you know the

11:11

devil mainly do it. skies are in

11:14

theory So back in I want to

11:16

see was Nineteen Eighty One when David

11:18

Glass saw was having an exorcism performed

11:21

on him in it's Hurt and War

11:23

and is a bad ass that he

11:25

is with back home in his office

11:28

doing a binding ritual trying. To get.

11:30

The demonic to come back to him

11:32

so he could bind it so that

11:34

it wouldn't harm the with anymore. But.

11:37

Would it be that know is that

11:39

they weren't the only with one imminent

11:41

that he was a lead and as

11:43

actually saw forty two demons appear. In

11:46

a kaleidoscope sex and he knew that it

11:48

was too powerful for him, so I was

11:51

into South, they're trying to get evidence for

11:53

me, he. He was

11:55

armed with like the armor of

11:57

god isn't I had a sister.

12:00

It's. Great to be able to go

12:02

out and honor what the deal and

12:04

still healthy boy school, pace myself sometimes

12:06

when I go out on T and

12:08

it's like old man was required in

12:10

seems had to need. These guys were

12:12

investigating haunted houses. whatever Laureen thirty years

12:14

ago when I was still a teenager.

12:16

Yeah yeah, we couldn't really hear this,

12:19

like kind of looking at the books

12:21

at the library about his like yeah,

12:23

exactly Now it it's it's It's very

12:25

fascinating that that's an interesting case in

12:27

it's when I don't know that we've

12:29

really talked about much on. The show so

12:31

I wouldn't mind going down that rabbit hole a little

12:33

bit. I know a lot of the story, but in

12:35

case the audience doesn't, you can probably spelled out a

12:37

little bit better than I can give us. Give the

12:40

audience a little bit of. Background.

12:42

On on that that case and

12:44

and what exactly went down. And.

12:46

From the start and how things have progressed. I.

12:49

Mean on every side. Jog my

12:51

memory arm I want to see

12:53

Started early eighty eighty one on.

12:55

The. With glad for started seeing

12:57

this entity. That. He would

13:00

call the beast and I

13:02

believe this t started because

13:04

his. I. Want to see

13:06

his mother and sister were on a

13:09

ski trip so remember correctly and they

13:11

got in the me friends with some

13:13

people, never kind of dabbling with vehicles

13:16

and on. Young. David

13:18

started seeing this entity and

13:20

it would really scare him

13:22

and they noticed it on.

13:25

A home to their moving into

13:28

and that it would fall him

13:30

to the house in book fields

13:32

and p for long they got

13:34

and a marine warren involved and

13:36

it was a series of investigations

13:39

going on at at home and

13:41

i'm i remember and was phone

13:43

up the steps when he came

13:45

inside an odd then. David.

13:48

Said something along the lines of all

13:50

the be stripped you when you are

13:52

common in his is like weird creepy

13:55

things like that started happening. but. What?

13:57

really escalated was

14:00

And that's when

14:02

Arnie Johnson got really upset

14:04

that he was seeing this happen. Arnie

14:06

Johnson was dating Debbie,

14:09

who was David's sister. He

14:13

basically told this thing,

14:15

you know, come into me. Leave

14:18

my friend alone. Come into me. And

14:21

that's when, you know, the demonic isn't going

14:23

to just come. It's

14:25

not just going to do what you tell it to do. He

14:28

got at him when he was at his most vulnerable.

14:31

And that's when, unfortunately, it resulted in the deaths

14:33

of a man. I

14:36

mean, how did Arnie die? What

14:38

exactly happened? Arnie's

14:40

alive. Arnie's soul. Yeah, but who's

14:43

the one who died? He

14:45

killed his landlord. Yeah, he killed his landlord.

14:47

Yeah, he killed his landlord. Yeah, yeah. He's

14:50

become quite good friends with Arnie over

14:52

the years. Yeah, because Arnie is out

14:54

now, isn't he? He

14:57

only served a few years. Yeah, yeah. They let

14:59

him off on good behavior because they didn't charge

15:01

him with murder. They charged

15:03

him a manslaughter. Yeah.

15:07

But yeah, he stabbed him. And

15:09

when he came to, you know, he

15:11

was possessed. And then when

15:14

he came to, he just didn't remember anything.

15:16

He didn't remember a damn

15:18

thing. And

15:20

you would never think that, you know, this guy

15:22

would do something like that. He's

15:25

just such a nice guy. I'm

15:27

going to see him. I'm actually going to a barbecue with him

15:29

on Saturday at Ed and Lorraine Warren's

15:31

house. He's just, he's a really nice guy. And

15:34

he's been coming out a lot more

15:36

recently and telling his story, which is

15:38

great, doing events. He's going

15:41

to be at the Warren's Seekers of the

15:43

Supernatural on October 29th, the Mohegan's

15:45

son. But yeah,

15:47

that's a really important

15:49

case for Ed and Lorraine Warren

15:51

because that was the first time ever

15:53

where they said, you know,

15:57

the devil made this guy do this. They tried

15:59

to argue it in court. demonic possession. They

16:01

did argue in court. Yeah.

16:04

Yeah. And the court, the court ended up

16:06

saying they weren't going to accept that, but in

16:08

the end, the sentencing really kind

16:10

of reflected almost like they did kind of

16:12

accept it in a way. Yeah, because

16:15

I forget what the sentence was, but I think

16:17

he only served like five

16:19

or three years. Which

16:22

if it was, that wouldn't be a

16:24

normal sentence for a crime like that. Exactly.

16:27

I mean, you know, he stabbed a

16:29

guy, killed someone.

16:31

Yeah. That is such a fascinating

16:33

case. I recently saw him on something and

16:36

I thought I'd really like to talk to

16:38

him. I would be very interested to hear

16:40

his story just in his words

16:43

that I could put you in contact with him.

16:45

You probably saw the shock dock on travel. That's

16:47

what it was. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's where

16:50

I thought that was done very well. Yeah. That

16:52

was that was indeed where I thought I remember

16:54

that. But yeah,

16:56

it's such a fascinating case of

16:58

how that all went down with

17:01

the objects that that are in

17:03

the museum. And you still obviously

17:05

get some activity there. Is

17:08

it the binding that

17:10

that keeps them there? Like if if an object

17:12

was to get out of there, if somebody were to

17:15

not that they're going to, but somebody just were to take

17:17

something, does that release all

17:19

the binding that's been done on

17:21

it? Or are these objects now

17:24

essentially neutralized? Well,

17:27

I'll tell you this. There's

17:31

been some activity in

17:33

the Warren's home and it's

17:36

coming from the museum. It's

17:38

coming from the museum. 100%. I

17:41

mean, I think it doesn't matter how many

17:43

prayers you do. Eventually there's going to be

17:45

some leakage, if you will. About

17:49

a month ago, I remember I was standing in the

17:52

living room. I was on the phone with my wife telling

17:55

her it was going to be a late night. There is

17:57

a crew there. We were doing some filming and.

18:00

I heard this. Kind

18:02

of. Car. Going old

18:04

man sounds coming from the basement

18:06

and I looked over at a

18:09

wave on. Gray. Guy He

18:11

actually he that the house quite often is

18:13

pretty much watching the house is Tony and

18:15

Judy still own the house in some ways

18:17

than a lot of time there. And I

18:20

said you know I heard that voice that

18:22

you were tell me about. He's like oh

18:24

yes, there's definitely something in the basement. We

18:26

think there's something demonic in the basement of

18:28

the Warrens house. On

18:31

them. Where did that come

18:33

from? Museums is? There's a

18:35

passageway from the. Museum

18:38

that links right to the house

18:40

he didn't see. Think it's it's

18:42

it's leaked out more and more

18:44

over the years. Mean obviously Lorraine

18:47

was it in the greatest health

18:49

for many years at the end

18:51

of her life. Arm and

18:53

and and it past quite some time

18:55

ago. Ah Dean was was it a

18:57

kind of a situation where he know

19:00

the the individuals who have to everything

19:02

at bay because they leave their day

19:04

in and day out. You. Know

19:06

they got old and and they the lower

19:08

they weren't necessarily able to do the protections

19:10

that they they had been doing when they

19:12

were in good health and alive. If he

19:14

is that some of that you know now

19:17

it's it's you know would sit there is

19:19

taking care of the property and in this

19:21

in that's but it's not the you know

19:23

this is my home, I'm living at it

19:25

and I am I. You know that is

19:27

it. There's a difference in terms of. I

19:30

think the level of what one could do. Yes,

19:34

But what? What? I truly think?

19:37

Adding a lot of people are going to agree with me

19:39

on this. What? Years

19:41

of the conjuring come out. two

19:43

thousand and thirteen. the original. ah

19:46

around there somewhere. Or

19:48

I so you got the conjuring because I'm

19:50

conjuring to eat at the Conjuring three. He

19:52

got least three Annabel movies now. Yup, Yup.

19:54

This whole franchise. You.

19:56

Know how much recognition that dollars

19:58

getting yelled right? No sir

20:00

out all the years possibly

20:03

suing the other items that

20:05

are in the museum. plus.

20:08

We. Have events people want to see.

20:10

this stuff's sure. We give him a

20:12

proper warning. Don't mock anything. You could

20:14

go and you could take pictures. Because

20:16

just like Ed said years ago, we

20:18

see the stars to protect the clients

20:21

and we want to prove the people

20:23

that evil truly does exist. Here's this

20:25

item. This is what happens. This is

20:27

what we think is attached to it.

20:30

So. I think as

20:32

far as. Leakage. Going

20:34

on right now and there

20:36

being some amped activity. These

20:39

objects are getting a lot of right

20:41

conditions. Something. I a

20:43

I wonder about the and it's It's

20:45

very much in that kind of line

20:47

of thinking. Of those getting

20:49

their games recognition, they're getting these

20:52

thoughts. But what about the concept

20:54

of. Of essentially. The

20:58

the collective energy of everybody. On.

21:00

This idea of this is haunted Her

21:02

That's haunted slit let's And and I'm

21:04

not in any way refuting that the

21:06

hub six in there are haunted. but

21:08

less to say somebody created I'm you

21:10

know it's like how they were three

21:12

or four Amity bills and the rest

21:14

of them were all be as ah

21:17

that. Let's let's say somebody created. A

21:20

movie about. That. Museum.

21:22

But the object that was in question really

21:24

was an object that didn't exist. It wasn't

21:26

one that there was ever. in a

21:28

case with the whole movies made up arm

21:31

and because people aren't usually the brightest, they

21:33

don't too much research. They're like oh yeah,

21:35

that moderately true. that must be a

21:37

real item in there. And as in let's

21:40

say you put the movie prop in there.

21:42

Again, It's to manufactured nothing

21:45

truly haunted about it could

21:47

in opposite like that. Through

21:50

the collective energy out of all

21:52

these people seeing a movie, believing

21:54

something is haunted. Could.

21:57

that then create some sort of

21:59

energy on object post

22:02

movie because of

22:05

everyone feeling that way? I

22:08

truly think so absolutely. I'm

22:10

happy you brought that up. We

22:12

actually have one

22:15

of the Annabelle dolls that was given

22:17

to Tony and Judy as a gift.

22:19

Yeah. It was presented to Nesper that

22:21

they used in Annabelle

22:24

Comes Home. Uh-huh. We built a

22:26

case for it and it's sitting

22:28

in the Occult Museum like three

22:30

feet across from Annabelle. From

22:33

the real one. Yeah. Because the movie

22:35

one's much spookier looking than Regga the

22:37

ant. Of course. Of course one doll.

22:39

Yeah. You know that's that you know

22:41

that's all James Wan. I think the

22:44

movie doll is awesome. But yeah

22:46

and it's really heavy too. Oh things like

22:48

made out of wood and I've

22:51

held it quite a few times when we

22:53

were moving it. It's just like it freaks

22:55

people out. Yeah. I left it on the

22:57

front seat of a car. Whenever like a

22:59

new movie comes out they basically

23:04

just like sit in the backyard because you

23:06

know we get a lot of trespassers even

23:08

though there's signs and gates stay away. People

23:10

are idiots. So I left it

23:12

on his car seat and he like totally freaked out.

23:15

I'm like it's okay. It's a movie prop. It's

23:17

not the real Annabelle. Yeah. That's

23:19

interesting. Yeah. So tell me more. Like

23:22

that's that's a great example. This movie

23:24

prop made for a movie. What

23:26

is there things that have happened

23:28

with that doll? Not

23:31

in particular. No. I don't remember there being

23:33

any weird stuff

23:35

happening around that

23:37

doll. You know like

23:40

I said we investigated the museum back in

23:42

April of last year and I don't remember

23:44

there being any type of weird stuff going

23:46

on around that object. There was some weird

23:48

stuff going on around Annabelle. The

23:51

dinosaur from the devil made me

23:54

do a case which walked

23:56

across the floor on its own volition and said

23:58

you're all gonna die back in I

24:01

think we were getting some interesting activity

24:03

around that because Conjuring

24:06

3 was getting ready to come out, and there

24:08

was a lot of talk about it. People

24:10

were reading the book again, so

24:13

plus I think it has to do

24:16

maybe a little bit. Maybe this is a

24:18

little far-fetched, but Arnie's been coming to the

24:20

house visiting a lot. And

24:23

it's like that was his

24:25

case. It happened to

24:27

him. Yeah, when one

24:29

reconnects with an object that has

24:32

that kind of trauma

24:34

or past with it, does

24:36

that amp things up? Possibly.

24:40

I believe it could.

24:44

Another question, because we're kind of on this topic

24:46

of individuals

24:50

storing the pot in some way, shape, or

24:52

form. In some cases, it's with something that

24:54

already exists, already has a history to it.

24:57

But more and more

24:59

too, sometimes there's

25:02

nothing going on prior to some

25:04

sort of collective anxiety

25:06

or feeling or fear

25:09

of a situation or an object.

25:12

Can people essentially

25:15

haunt themselves? Can one conjure up their

25:17

own haunting? And I'm not saying it

25:19

by means of let's get out the

25:21

Ouija board and call something in or

25:23

any sort of ritualistic

25:27

tactic that there's

25:29

questionable outcomes. You're

25:32

just talking about like fear itself. I

25:38

mean, in a way, yes.

25:40

That's what you would

25:42

call a poltergeist. Surely with

25:44

poltergeist cases, it's usually

25:47

revolving around young female

25:49

hormones are going crazy,

25:51

and it kind of

25:53

emanates this energy

25:56

that to this day I think a lot

25:58

of people haven't really completely… I

26:02

know years ago, another famous Ed and Lorraine

26:04

Warren case, the Bridgeport Poltergeist, there was a

26:06

lot of crazy things going on in that

26:08

house. A

26:10

lot of people saw

26:14

a refrigerator shoot across the

26:16

room, and Ed would always say, only

26:19

a demonic entity can

26:21

do that. I wasn't even born

26:23

yet. I don't know if that

26:26

particular case had anything demonic going

26:28

on, but I do know that

26:30

there was priests doing blessings in

26:33

that house. And like I said, a

26:36

poltergeist case, it usually revolves around a

26:38

young female, what

26:40

she's going through, early stages of puberty. And

26:44

there's usually a lot of

26:46

strange phenomena when it comes

26:48

to a poltergeist, like this really

26:51

off-the-wall stuff, everything from

26:55

rocks falling from the sky,

26:57

just water appearing out

27:00

of nowhere, just like

27:02

demonetitiation, things

27:05

just appearing and moving on

27:08

their own. A lot of weird stuff going

27:10

on. Are situations

27:12

like that, I guess

27:14

the question I have is, is

27:17

that something that there's

27:19

another entity involved that's

27:22

latching on to say that

27:24

teenage girl and helping these

27:26

things happen? Or

27:28

is this literally like a

27:31

natural phenomena of the energy that

27:33

the human being is expelling, and

27:35

it's influencing all these things, unbeknownst

27:38

to them, and they're not intending

27:40

to do these things, but it's

27:42

not a third party. It's

27:45

not a demon. It's not Uncle Larry's

27:47

ghost. It's literally that human that's doing

27:49

it. I

27:52

mean, I think it could be both. That's

27:54

the thing. You don't really know what a

27:56

poltergeist is yet. I mean, it's strong enough

27:58

to move a fridge. As

28:01

far as I'm concerned only something really

28:04

powerful like a demon can move a fridge

28:06

But you've got objects that heavy

28:08

being pushed across rooms in a poltergeist

28:11

case Do I

28:13

mean where there's one when

28:15

there's one spirit? It's gonna

28:17

attract more. You know what I mean? Do

28:20

poltergeist have intent? It's

28:25

a good question I Keeps

28:29

all thinking about now is the bridgeport case.

28:31

Yeah, I would say yes because It

28:36

was really I mean that that

28:39

little girl in that house was really frightened

28:42

And I know for a fact Ed was scared. You don't

28:44

want Lorraine in that house anymore Something

28:47

happened to Lorraine when they were in that house she

28:49

got like a burning sensation on her hand

28:51

and like a Burn appeared

28:54

now. I think that may have happened

28:56

because of Lorraine's clairvoyant

28:58

abilities and Ed got really frightened by

29:00

that I heard the audio or Ed's

29:02

like Lorraine I think you need to

29:05

get out of this house because of

29:07

your clairvoyance like I'm afraid something really

29:09

bad is gonna happen to you I

29:12

mean, that's scary if you think about

29:15

it. Yeah something Burns

29:17

her hand if they could do that Think

29:20

of what else it can do I

29:23

think that yeah, that's the really kind of scary thing

29:25

of What you

29:27

know, what are these things? capable

29:29

of I

29:31

mean we we saw the case we were

29:33

talking about earlier the Arnie Johnson the situation

29:36

where Someone was stabbed

29:38

And and if you you play it all and

29:40

you look at the line of how did this

29:42

happen? That was the power

29:45

of what these things can do because

29:47

one can ask, you know, can these things kill you?

29:51

We in some cases yes And

29:53

I think so it may be through

29:55

someone else maybe through the power of

29:57

someone else But you know or

29:59

or even even just the shock, the scare, the

30:01

trauma that one may experience in a case

30:04

that someone has a heart attack and they're

30:06

gone. But I

30:08

think- Or just a really bad demonic possession

30:10

like, what was that case,

30:13

Elise? Where

30:15

she basically just died

30:17

from malnourishment. That

30:21

was a long time ago, but she didn't eat for

30:24

like a week or so and she just died. She

30:26

was under demonic possession. Those pictures

30:28

are horrific of that girl. Yeah.

30:32

No, you look at them and it's like

30:34

if you ever, if you don't believe that possession

30:36

exists, take a look at those. In

30:41

your heart, if you are in

30:44

any way conscious of these things, you

30:46

know that that was not just a mental

30:49

illness or something going on there. Thank

30:51

you. You're always going to have the naysayers.

30:54

But it's like when you've got

30:56

someone possessed and they're saying

30:59

things that, like deep

31:01

dark secrets for seeing the future,

31:03

speaking languages they don't know how

31:05

to speak before, that's

31:09

proof for me. That's good enough

31:11

proof for me. Yeah. No,

31:13

I agree. I mean, those images

31:15

kind of remind me of, it's something

31:18

that I see a lot of today in

31:21

True Crime. We have

31:23

another podcast called Fear Crime Today and

31:26

it's not ghostly, but we talk about

31:29

current day horrible human

31:31

beings doing horrible things. So

31:34

I'm scanning through that all the time

31:36

of those stories and I cannot tell

31:38

you the amount of times I see

31:40

like the mug shots or what have

31:42

you of the people, the perpetrators in

31:44

these crimes that have done utterly just

31:46

horrific things. And I swear to God

31:48

there's an increase in this of

31:52

people killing their children. There's

31:54

a lot of that in

31:56

really cruel, bizarre ways. It's

31:59

not just like the mom who went to the lake

32:01

who had postpartum or something and drove in. It's

32:04

like people are cutting their babies

32:06

off and eating them. Exactly. It's

32:08

disgusting. That's a monoconsid. Yes. It

32:11

goes well beyond a mental illness

32:13

where you can go, this is horrible but

32:15

I can understand how the mental illness drove

32:17

the woman to do something like that in

32:20

a case like the postpartum type thing.

32:22

That exists. It's a mental condition.

32:24

A lot of this stuff manifests in

32:27

terms of how we have traditionally thought of hauntings and

32:37

ghosts where it's someone's

32:39

dad and then the ghost comes back or something

32:41

takes over this or that. I think we're seeing

32:43

it just in humanity in general where

32:45

there's so much evil that seems to

32:48

be alive in this world that it's

32:50

almost taking over people but we're treating

32:52

it more – we're not treating it

32:55

in any sort of way of

32:58

a possession or anything like

33:00

that. We're just looking at it from

33:02

the legal standpoint of you committed a crime which yes

33:04

we should. We should certainly do that too. Absolutely.

33:07

But I have to feel – I

33:09

mean do you feel like there's more

33:12

evil out there in people in

33:14

general today than there was in

33:16

the past, just in the general public? Do

33:20

you really want to go down that rabbit hole?

33:22

The world – we're going to hell in a

33:24

handbag. The

33:33

world is falling apart. I don't

33:35

want to get into it. I really don't. I hate

33:38

talking about politics but this world –

33:41

quote James Hetfield from

33:43

Metallica, we are so fucked.

33:46

We're hardwired to self-destruct. Yeah. It's

33:49

true. I'm not trying to

33:51

go anywhere political. I guess the question

33:53

I would say is are there more

33:55

undiagnosed cases of possession or even

33:58

something worse? Is there a

34:01

level beyond possession where

34:04

the person is just kind of taking

34:06

over and they ain't coming back? Well,

34:10

yeah. I mean, sometimes exorcisms don't

34:13

work and you can have numerous

34:15

exorcisms and it

34:17

just it doesn't help and they have

34:19

to keep going and getting this ritual

34:21

done. And, you

34:24

know, it's unfortunate sometimes the church doesn't

34:26

want to get involved and that's a whole

34:28

other story that really baffles me. Yeah. That

34:31

wraps up the first part of our

34:33

conversation with Eric Vitali in part two.

34:35

We're going to continue on digging into

34:37

this. Are there more undiagnosed cases of

34:39

possession in today's world than there were

34:41

in the past? Our spirits often present

34:43

for their own funeral and what happened

34:45

to Eric and his wife at a

34:47

haunted B&B, well, the real

34:50

life cemetery in the backyard.

34:52

Those questions and more in part

34:55

two. Until next time, for all

34:57

of us at The Grave Talk, I'm Tony Bruzke.

34:59

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